Jewish Question

[barriesdad]

During our cruise on the Zuiderdam in September I have a "Yahrzeit" for my late father. Obviously I cannot light a candle in my cabin due to the fire regulations but is there anywhere else on the ship where I can?

Has anyone else had this dilemma and how did you get around it?

Lloyd

[Candy]

During our cruise on the Zuiderdam in September I have a "Yahrzeit" for my late father. Obviously I cannot light a candle in my cabin due to the fire regulations but is there anywhere else on the ship where I can? Has anyone else had this dilemma and how did you get around it? Lloyd I can remember my parents using a yahrzeit bulb similar to this one. This and others may be found at Zion Judaica. (http://www.zionjudaica.com/Memorial_Lamps_and_Candles-15.asp)

http://www.zionjudaica.com/productimages/Ebstar-T.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:displayWindow%28%27Ebstar.jpg%27,550,500%29)
HTH
Candy the ZuiderPrincess

[unclerich]

Lloyd,

I empathize with your desire to light a candle on the occasion of your father's Yahrzeit. In the interest of safety, I would certainly concur with the lighting of an electric candle.

On a lighter note, we have traveled two different years during Chanukah. Lighting the electric menorah was fun, as well as eating potato latkes on a cruise ship! The added sport was correcting, on a near daily basis, the 'appropriate' order of sequential candle lighting on the ship's electric menorah which sat at the front desk.

All the best,

b'shalom

Richard

[the2ofus]

Do I guess correctly that this is a ritual observance of the date of death? What a lovely tradition! Please explain more about it.

[unclerich]

Do I guess correctly that this is a ritual observance of the date of death? What a lovely tradition! Please explain more about it.

Thanks so much for asking ... you're absolutely correct that Yahrzeit (year-time) is a ritual observance of the anniversary of the death of an immediate family member. Here's a link to a further explanation:
http://judaism.about.com/cs/deathandmourning/f/yahrzeit.htm

Thanks again for your interest,

Richard

[barriesdad]

Do I guess correctly that this is a ritual observance of the date of death? What a lovely tradition! Please explain more about it.

From About.com

http://judaism.about.com/cs/deathandmourning/f/yahrzeit.htm

"Yahrzeit is a commemoration of the death of a Jew by a mourner (the child, sibling, spouse or parent of the deceased).

The date of the Yahrzeit, which is calculated according to the Hebrew calendar, is the anniversary of the death, not the burial.

The anniversary of the death of a loved one is naturally a solemn day, and Judaism helps the mourner experience this pain and and also honors the memory of the deceased via Yahrzeit rituals.

The main expression of the Yahrzeit is reciting the Mourner's Kaddish prayer (http://judaism.about.com/cs/deathandmourning/f/kaddish.htm). Lighting a Yahrzeit candle (http://judaism.about.com/od/deathandmourning/f/yahrzeit_how.htm), a special memorial candle that burns for 24 hours, is another Yahrzeit practice. Only one Yahrzeit candle needs to be lit per household. Some people use an electric bulb instead of a candle today for safety reasons. The Yahzeit candle should be lit after dark on the evening before the anniversary of the death and burn for a full 24 hours. Many people visit the graves of the deceased on the Yahrzeit. Some people observe Yahrzeit by fasting.

While Jews have observed Yahrzeit since Talmudic times, the ceremony wasn't called Yahrzeit until the 16th century. The word comes from the German word Jahrzeit, a word used by the Christian Church for the occassion of honoring the dead.

In Judaism, Yahrzeit aids those in mourning and keeps the memory of the deceased alive."

Hope this helps.

Lloyd

[barriesdad]

Snap!!!!

Just beat me to it!!!

Lloyd

[barriesdad]

Lloyd,

I empathize with your desire to light a candle on the occasion of your father's Yahrzeit. In the interest of safety, I would certainly concur with the lighting of an electric candle.


The problem I have is being from the UK. Can't find any stockists over here. Can find them on US web-sites but would not get here in time plus would cost a fortune in shipping.

I think I will use my wife's cigarette lighter and say Kaddish. I'm sure my late father won't mind that much. As they say "it's the thought that counts". It will be the 1st time in 23 years that I will not be in shul to recite it.

Lloyd

[AirGorilla]

If the candle is small, perhaps you could light it in the smoking section of the bar or a cocktail lounge.

Have a great trip.

[lougee1043]

went to friday services on the ship once and if i remember correctly they did light 2 candles to "bench licht" -- i think that a small flashlight would serve as a better substitute then a cigarette lighter because you are still dealing with an open flame --im sure your father would smile on your efforts regardless of what you use to honor him

ah be gihzunt

go to boards on this web site and find sailaway lounge and find the thread entitled cruising jewish -- im sure you will find it interesting - and you might want to repose your question there

check on the ship --quite often there is a friday nite lay service -- usually enough for a minyon

[Starr Mtn]

Perhaps this may be of interest ......... QVC (on line shopping network)
has a variety of battery operated candles. Some even appear to flicker like a real candle. They obviously are not as beautiful and with the true
religious significance of those described above. But hopefully they will
assist in performing your lovely ritual.......

Click here: QVC.com Shopping (www.qvc.com)

do a search for battery operated candles

[arzz]

On board the ship there is always a chaplain, and on many of our cruises there has been a Rabbi. In the absence of a Rabbi, on Fridays there is always a notice in the daily program about Friday evening services that are then usually conducted by a passenger or a non-ordained crew member. On Friday evenings, on most sailings you will find a minion and be able to say kaddish. If there is a Rabbi on board, possibly he can help you to arrange some sort of appropriate and safe yahrzeit light. I do recognize that the kaddish will be on the closest Friday night, and not the actual yahrzeit.

We have often been out of town on a yahrzeit and have thus attended services in many diverse location, including once in a small town that had no Rabbi and only a handful of Jewish people. That time, although we were able to attend services conducted by one of the locals, we did not have a minion and were not able to formally do the mourner's kaddish.

When we travel we just have to be flexible -- and when we attend services we usually meet some of the most interesting people. It is all part of the joy of travel.

[the2ofus]

Thank you so much for the information. Our Christian faith has All Souls services on the Sunday following Nov. 1st, but no tradition related to the actual death anniversary of loved ones.

I have always found the anticipation of the anniversary to be especially difficult. I think I will develop my own Yahrzeit observance. In future years, I will have a plan in place to celebrate the life of those very dear people I have lost.

I hope I do not offend anyone by "borrowing" your lovely tradition.

[MercedMike]

I think I will use my wife's cigarette lighter and say Kaddish.

But remember that you are not even allowed to carry cigarette lighters on the plane these days! She (and you) may have to buy a lighter after you get on the ship...

Mike

[lougee1043]

using a cigarette lighter will not work since you are supposed to keep the candle burning for 24 hours -- something electric or something battery operated is the only way to go------------its the intent that counts and its obbvious to all who read this that your heart is in the right place

[lougee1043]

I hope I do not offend anyone by "borrowing" your lovely tradition.

absolutly not --you honor us by adopting one of our traditions as one of your own

[geocruiser]

barriesdad,

What a beautiful tradition. It is truly lovely. May be you could fine a night light that looks like a candle (if possible). Then you could plug it in and not worry about a open flame or the battery losing power.

Geo

[barriesdad]

Thank you all for your kind thoughts and suggestions. I will see what I can find whether it be an electric yahrzeit candle or some kind of night light or just leave a flashlight left on for 24hrs.

I am truly amazed that I would get so many replies. This really is a tight knit community. As 1st time cruisers I really hope that this will be the 1st of many more to come.

Lloyd

[SDHALFAN]

absolutly not --you honor us by adopting one of our traditions as one of your own

Thank you Lougee (and the2ofus),

What a lovely tradition and one that I plan to celebrate. Tomorrow would have been my husband's birthday and I plan to light a candle to celebrate his life and the love and joy that he brought to me, to our daughter and to our grandchildren, and the fact that he lives on in our hearts.

In February I will light another candle to commemorate his death, and another one three days later to celebrate our wedding anniversary. He was a very special man and I am so happy to have found a way to help me ease the pain of his loss by celebrating his life and all he gave to his friends and family. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Valerie

[ger_77]

My husband's family is Doukhobor (quite similar to Quaker), and they also have a tradition of recognizing the date of a death one year later. In Russian, the word for the commemoration is "Pomenke"; there is one held at 6 weeks, and on the 1 year anniversary.

At a Pomenke we gather as a small group (usually immediate family and a few close friends) at a nice restaurant, say a few prayers and spend the time over dinner enjoying the companionship of one another and remember the good times had with the person we have lost. It is a lovely way to honour the memory of the deceased and a good way for friends and family to keep the memory of the loved one alive.

It sounds like Pomenke and Yahrzeit are one and the same - these boards are just full of information, aren't they? As far as the candles go, try your local Dollar Store for the battery operated candles - they certainly are the safest. Have a wonderful time on your cruise, and best wishes for a memorable Yahrzeit.

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

[cool change]

I also use the electric light candle at home as I do not want to leave a candle burning. I wonder if there is anyone on your cruise that could get one for you. I know I would. What port are you sailing out of, is it a U.S. port? Just curious as certain ports over here would have places to buy them. Its just nice to have anyway. In a pinch I would use a night light that may look as close to a candle as I could get. I dont know when you are going in Sept. but if its during the High Holy Days there should be a rabbi on board for services. He or she may have one you could use.

[barriesdad]

It sounds like Pomenke and Yahrzeit are one and the same - these boards are just full of information, aren't they? As far as the candles go, try your local Dollar Store for the battery operated candles - they certainly are the safest. Have a wonderful time on your cruise, and best wishes for a memorable Yahrzeit.

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

I have just orered a pack of battery operated tea lights on e-bay for the princely sum of £3.50 ($6). Without the help of these boards I wouldn't have thought of this excellent alternative to a lit candle.

Once again, thanks to all those who have responded and if we have brought some light to some in these troubled times then so much the better.

Lloyd

[the2ofus]

Lloyd,
So glad you came to this board. Trust me, your first cruise will be only one of many!

Just a thought for those concerned about allowing a lit candle to burn all night at home. You might place it in the kitchen sink. There it is well away from anything flammable, unless you have a window curtain or something which might be hanging above the sink.


There's a Christmas Holiday tradition that says, "On New Years Day, a bayberry candle burned to the socket brings health to the household, luck to the family and gold to the pocket." If we have a bayberry candle and it hasn't yet burned down, we put the candleholder in the kitchen sink and go to bed without a worry.

Have I noticed that burning a bayberry candle has had any real effect on our lives, health or good fortune? Nope! But we use candles at holidays, so why not bayberry, and why not follow tradition?

[lougee1043]

i use a rokeach yahrzeit light candle which comes in a glass holder and the entire candle fits into it -- i light it and when its time to go to bed i put it in the sink just as other posters do

[yiddishkopf]

Many of my non-Jewish friends have admired the tradtion of Yartzheit and my former secretary, who is a Christmas and Easter Christian, has borrowed the tradition to remember her loving grandparents and her father.

It should be noted, however, that in addition to lighting the candle/electric light and saying the prayers, it is also traditional to give a charitable donation.

I have participated in the Friday evening services on various cruise ships and in fact have led a service earlier this year on the Statendam (NZ to Aus). It is a wonderful way to get to know people.

[sasysutler]

Lloyd,
may your fathers memory be a blessing. I took a candle on did light it in our room with no problem. the menorah sounds like fun at chanukkah.. may need to try that one!

shalom
sherri

[unclerich]

Lloyd,
may your fathers memory be a blessing. I took a candle on did light it in our room with no problem. the menorah sounds like fun at chanukkah.. may need to try that one!

shalom
sherri

It hasn't been that long:

"Thursday, March 23, 2006; Posted: 5:16 p.m. EST (22:16 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A fire broke out Thursday on the Jamaica-bound Star Princess cruise ship, and one person died of a heart attack, according to cruise line officials.





Two people suffered significant smoke inhalation and nine others had "minor complications from smoke inhalation," said a statement from Princess Cruises, which is owned by Carnival Corp."

No flames - please.....

Richard

[babyher]

I think the tradition of the Yahrzeit candle is a beautiful one. Certainly a lovely way to honor a loved one of any faith.

Growing up I had a very close friend who was Jewish, and I was invited to many of his families functions. Weddings, funerals, shivas, bar mitzvahs,sedars. Yes I even went to a Bris (sp) Yikes :)

Beautiful ceremonies with wonderful traditions.

I was just wondering if someone could answer a question for me.
I remember my friends grandfather died and I went to his house for Shiva.
this was years ago I was in high school and I didn't have the presence of mind to ask anyone then. Actually I asked my friend and he wasn't really sure

I remember going in the house and there was a bowl of water everyone had to wash their hands in , then they touched the mezzuzah (sp) on the doorway , which I understand .

I remember we had to take our shoes off before entering the house , and all the mirrors in the house were covered.

I was just wondering what the significance or meaning of these things were in the Jewish faith.

[unclerich]

I think the tradition of the Yahrzeit candle is a beautiful one. Certainly a lovely way to honor a loved one of any faith.

Growing up I had a very close friend who was Jewish, and I was invited to many of his families functions. Weddings, funerals, shivas, bar mitzvahs,sedars. Yes I even went to a Bris (sp) Yikes :)

Beautiful ceremonies with wonderful traditions.

I was just wondering if someone could answer a question for me.
I remember my friends grandfather died and I went to his house for Shiva.
this was years ago I was in high school and I didn't have the presence of mind to ask anyone then. Actually I asked my friend and he wasn't really sure

I remember going in the house and there was a bowl of water everyone had to wash their hands in , then they touched the mezzuzah (sp) on the doorway , which I understand .

I remember we had to take our shoes off before entering the house , and all the mirrors in the house were covered.

I was just wondering what the significance or meaning of these things were in the Jewish faith.

The brief response is that many of the Shiva traditions are symbolic of the fact that 'life has changed' with the death of a loved one. Examples include sitting on low stools, not shaving, covering mirrors to emphasize the lack of importance of physical appearance (other interpretations also). Hope this is helpful. Personally, I find the interest of so many of you in the Jewish traditions surrounding the mourning process to be a positive experience. Interest in, and respect for, the customs of others goes a long way towards breaking down barriers among peoples of the world.

Come to think of it, cruising and travel helps to break down the very same barriers!

Richard

[babyher]

Richard

Thank you very much for answering
Yes I found your answers very helpful :)

I find other religions very interesting . Even if I may not subscribe to all their beliefs , I find their customs and rituals very interesting.

What surprises me more sometimes is how many similarities than differences there are in certain religions

Thank you again :)

[Starr Mtn]

Personally, I find the interest of so many of you in the Jewish traditions surrounding the mourning process to be a positive experience. Interest in, and respect for, the customs of others goes a long way towards breaking down barriers among peoples of the world.

Come to think of it, cruising and travel helps to break down the very same barriers!

Richard

Beautifully said - and we agree with you........ Thanks so much for sharing with so many ! Especially today - we need to remember things we share - rather than our possible differences ..........

[barriesdad]

Beautifully said - and we agree with you........ Thanks so much for sharing with so many ! Especially today - we need to remember things we share - rather than our possible differences ..........

It never ceases to amaze me the similarities between Muslims and Jews in their religious laws and yet we have such hatred and atrocities purporting to be in the name of these religions. Why can we not all get along together? Life would be so much happier.

As a Jew I extend the hand of friendship to all people of any religious persuasion or no persuasion at all for that matter. Let's just learn to live and let live.

Shalom, salaam, peace.

Lloyd

[the2ofus]

Lloyd,
Sadly, it is not religious belief but the perversion of religion to accomplish political agendas that has our world in constant turmoil. I am reminded of that old Joan Baez protest song "With God On Our Side".

All we can do is try our utmost to reach out to others, people-to-people, to combat the evil and the hatred. Ignorance is the weapon they use. We need to combat it every way we can with education, information and by reaching out the hand of kindness and help.

[Darspurs]

Hello again Lloyd - Honestly I am not stalking you ; )

Yes I am a mad Spurs supporter and have been for 45 years. I notice that you are an auditor - I am an FCA.

With regard to Yahrzeit, I have never been away for it as I have it for my late father on eruv Rosh Hasshanah so we are always at home.

If you really wanted to say kaddish whilst on a cruise you do have a couple of options:-

One is whilst you are in a port if there is a shul certainly on a saturday you may be able to make it - I have been to so many shul's whilst cruising from as far afield as Curacao to St Petersberg. We actually often try and make a point of surfing the net and seeing where there are shul's before departing on a cruise.

The secsond option you have is to ask whoever prints the daily planner on the ship to put in a little note to see if you can get a minyan to have an evening service on the day of the Yahrzeit. I am sure the ship will be accomodating and you could be lucky.

David

[barriesdad]

David,

I'm sure you aren't stalking me!! :) :)

I'm not a very keen soccer fan although I do follow the fortunes of poor old Leeds Utd. My big passion is Rugby League and I've been a fanatical fan of the Leeds Rhinos for nearly 40 years since I was 8!!

I wish you a long life for Erev Rosh Hashanah. My dad died 8 days before Rosh Hashanah 23 years ago and this will be the 1st time I'll have been away on holiday. If I've been away with work I've always managed to find a shul.

The evening of the Yahrzeit we will be in Ketchikan and I presume there will not be a shul there!! My eldest daughter did Camp America 2 years ago in Anchorage and believe it or not there is a largish Jewish population. She even managed to meet some people we found out about as their parent's come from Leeds. Small world!!

I'll be quite happy to switch on my battery operated tea light and say Kaddish on my own. If there is a Sabbath service on Friday night I will be able to say Kaddish during Mincha so that will be just right.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Lloyd

[unclerich]

:) Here's a quote for you - the link follows:

"The small Jewish community in Ketchikan meets weekly for Shabbat services and other activities at the home of Steven Dulin, who imports kosher food from Seattle and runs a kosher bed and breakfast. A handful of Jews maintain orthodox homes and spend major holidays at the Chabad houses in Seattle or Anchorage. The group meeting at Dulin's home is usually a minyan, and when tourists are in town during the summer, Shabbat is a larger gathering. In the town with its many shops, the Frank Meisler Gallery at 619 Mission Street sells Jewish-themed sculpture, jewelry, and religious articles created by Meisler. Ketchikan's mayor, Bob Weinstein, also is Jewish."

http://www.joyfulnoise.net/JoyAlaska5.html

Richard

[arzz]

There is also a Jewish community in Sitka. Last June we booked a whale watching trip on the six passenger, privately operated, Ester G with Captain Davey Lubin. He took us out for a wonderful tour even though the weather was not particularly cooperating. Turns out that the G is Ester G is for Greenberg and Captain Davey showed us a great time!

[Neuroelf]

Barrie is very lucky to have a dad like you...

Sorry I won't be on your cruise, but if anyone is looking for a minyan on the Westerdam 8/27 -9/3, I and my two sons could be cajoled into attending.:)

Thanks for bringing up this thread....Has anyone been to the do it yourself Friday night Jewish service on board a HAL ship? What's that like?...I'd imagine it depends on who attends.

[Neuroelf]

Ketchikan's mayor, Bob Weinstein, also is Jewish."

Perhaps we should refer to it as "Kvetchikan, Alaska" :)

[lougee1043]

attending.

Thanks for bringing up this thread....Has anyone been to the do it yourself Friday night Jewish service on board a HAL ship? What's that like?...I'd imagine it depends on who attends.

i was to one -- dont remember if it was for a holiday or just a friday nite-- it was a do it yourselfer-- hal participates by baking a challah and supplying kosher wine --- the service was short and sweet

[hammybee]

I am not a Jew. My Austrian great grandmother however, kept house for a Jewish family and so many of this family's traditions became our own. I think I was almost 18 before I tried a cheeseburger on a dare- call it peer pressure.

Anyway, the purpose of this post is to recommend a book:

The Gift of the Jews. How a Tribe of Desert Nomads Changed the Way Everyone Thinks and Feels- Thomas Cahill.

[the2ofus]

Ketchikan's mayor, Bob Weinstein, also is Jewish."

Perhaps we should refer to it as "Kvetchikan, Alaska" :)

Neuroelf, I think you may have something there.:D Seems Ketchikan is the rainfall capital of that part of the world. Something to kvetch about, for sure.

[arzz]

Went to services on the Maasdam last Christmas (we did, however, have a Rabbi on board). The service was well attended and in addition to the Rabbi we were joined by some of the ship's officers -- in addition to the service there was a couple on board who repeated their marriage vows in celebration of their 50th wedding anniversary. Their ceremony was warm and well celebrated by the community members who were present (I even think we danced). A nice time was had by all.

[barriesdad]

I have just orered a pack of battery operated tea lights on e-bay for the princely sum of £3.50 ($6).

Arrived this morning!! Will do very nicely. Now to research all the Jewish communities in the Rockies and S E Alaska.

Lloyd

[unclerich]

Excellent result, Lloyd. Have a wonderful cruise and a Happy and Healthy New Year.

It was wonderful 'getting to know you' and all those who participated in this terrific discussion.

Richard

[jayjaycan]

Interesting post and informative replies.

Obviously others have had concerns about maintaining rituals relating to the burning of candles while on board ship.

Since cruise ships provide facilities for religious services it seems feasible they could provide electric candles upon request.Has anyone ever inquired from the cruise line about this matter?

It might be good recommendation.

[Lvteks]

After following this post I called my DS and told her about the ritual and asked if she would want to do something for the 7th anniversary of her DH. We met at her home, lit candles by his picture and spent a quiet hour or so just recalling the remarkable man he was. Then we went to dinner and returned to continue with music that played while we waited together in his room the night he died. Again some recollection. Eventually we said goodnight. I stayed over until mid-morning. I thought sharing those moments seven years ago had been a gift, yet this sharing too has become a treasure for us. Thanks you for posting, for the replies; the light burns on for your kindness.

Blessings,

Gail