UK and US on "critical" alert status for air travel

[Starbright]

Big problems in the UK this morning. A plot to destroy aircraft in mid-air over UK and USA airspace has been uncovered. A number of people have been arrested.

The airports are in chaos due to stepped up security measures. No hand luggage is being allowed onto aircraft on the order of the Government. It will be a difficult situation for anyone finishing a cruise here and flying back to the USA.

The TV news is saying that the ban on hand luggage will only be "a short term measure", but no one knows what that means, obviously.

[Scrumpy]

Thanks for posting; thought about putting up a link when this first broke, but things have been moving so fast! I've been watching CNN all night tonight. They're reporting that liquids will not be allowed on our carry-ons in the US - no beverages, lotions, etc. Looks like things are going to start moving very slowly at the airport. I hope they caught/catch everyone they suspect in the UK and that nothing else is going on. Scary stuff.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Have been listening to this since 5 AM - bad situation.

Feel so sorry for those trying to get home!!

[~Nereus~]

Just imagine arriving with your stuff and:

11.30am: Carry-on baggage rules are causing chaos. Laptop computers, mobile phones, iPods and remote controls are among items banned from being carried on board. Prescription medicines are permitted; as are glasses - but not their cases, the Department of Transport says. Contact lenses can be taken aboard in their cases - but bottles of solution are banned.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2306741,00.html

[Ine]

Also many other airports in Europe with flights to and from the UK are having problems now.
Expect delays or even cancelled flights.

I really hope things will be back to normal soon.

[Copper10-8]

Just want to congratulate the British security forces and police for one outstanding job in foiling these @#%&#%holes so far! We, the traveling public, can put up with increased security and added rules and regulations in order to fly home safely! Great job!!

[lvs2crooz]

Darn, just when I was starting to feel comfortable about flying internationally. We're flying on British Airways on Sept.16th and I'm starting to feel nervous. Darn, I was really looking forward to a relaxing worry free flight anticipating my wonderful Noordam cruise. Now I'll have to be more onguard. What's wrong with these people who are so determined to harm us? I don't understand their mentallity.:mad:

[jhannah]

You must understand this is jihad ... a holy war. It's all rooted in religious values. That's their mentality.

This will cause lots of inconvenience for the traveling public, and will really be a pain for cruisers trying to get home. Let's hope things even out quickly.

[Host Walt]

I was watching the live news feed from London last night and one of the BIG issues is that papers (newspapers, business documents, etc.) are not permitted as well.

There was one story of a US government bureaucrat traveling from LHR to IAD with top secret documents. Gave him two choices; check the documents (illegal under US law) or cancel the trip.

Given the fact that the authorities foiled the terrorist attack on "at least 20 trans-Atlantic planes," I suspect these rules were designed to stop any acts in progress and are not necessarily the rules that will apply as we go forward.

[~Nereus~]

Anyone out there willing to trust luggage screeners with their computers, cameras and jewelry in their unlocked suitcases? So much for emergency personal travel bag in case your flight is cancelled overnight.

There is only one absolutely safe way to travel by air.
You strip in your airport of departure, have a cavity search, put on paper clothing, ship all your belongings by separate carrier and board your aircraft. Upon arrival you will (hopefully) get your clothing and belongings back.

Welcome to the brave new world of air travel.
Anyone who has ever seen a James Bond movie should have realized that containers of any kind including bottles of highly flammable alcohol should never have been allowed on board airplanes since 2001. I'm amazed that security experts took only five years to catch on.:(

[~Nereus~]

You must understand this is jihad ... a holy war. It's all rooted in religious values. That's their mentality.


I totally agree. This war started about 600AD and it's not about to end soon. And as will be shown by the terrorists arrested... the enemy is already living in our midst. I can't believe why any national government still allows immigrants from countries who have no intention of being assimilated into the ideals of western democracy... This has nothing to do with politics of the left or right. This has everything to do with profiling and recognizing the potential enemy. I don't care where anyone comes from as long as they are willing to accept the ways of the people who have built western culture. I hope this is not considered a political comment but a common sense one from someone who has made Canada home. Anyone who does not want to become one of us (any western-style democracy) should not be allowed to live in our midst. Off my soap box now.

[grannynurse]

In another vein, I suggest that those of us who are cruising within the next 60-90 days seriously reconsider our packing plans.
Even to the extent of buying necessary items in our embarcation port cities.
I know they are saying that you can pack liquids, gels, toothpaste etc in locked (checked) luggage, but that's going to necessitate more frequent luggage searches and late arriving luggage. Another reason to fly in a day early for a cruise.
Hopefully HAL will stock more necessities in their onboard shops which frequently run out of things like deodorant and mouthwash.
Perhaps Cruise Critic can address these issues in some articles for cruisers on the home page.
Grannynurse

[Starbright]

I agree with you C 2 C. However, I understand from the TV news that the people arrested are all British passport holders - I assume they were born here. Don't know what the Government can do about that.

[Host Walt]

...Perhaps Cruise Critic can address these issues in some articles for cruisers on the home page.
GrannynurseThat has already been done.

Cruise Critic has set up a news alert at the home page for Cruise Line announcements.

Check Cruise Line Responses (http://http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1745) page frequently to see what's up.

In addition there is a news article that summarizes the new restrictions in the Cruise Critic News (http://http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1744)page.

[WISCruiser]

Are these restrictions just for flights from UK to USA or vice versa? and also for flights originating and staying within the US borders? Thanks.

[AlohaPride]

Are these restrictions just for flights from UK to USA or vice versa? and also for flights originating and staying within the US borders? Thanks.

The local radio here has said the restrictions are for International flights - period - no carry ons. Interisland and domestic I believe is the restrictions on liquids, lotions, creams, and sprays. No too sure as I'm just playing catch up (as we are 6 hours behind the East Coast)

[Host Walt]

For the latest TSA rules, click here:

TSA (http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/threat-change.shtm)

[HeatherInFlorida]

I'm flying out early a.m. and bear in mind that I understand they have also confiscated chapstick and lipsticks. I don't know if this is across the board, and is certainly no huge loss, but if you have a favorite or expensive lipstick or balm, you will want to pack it in checked baggage.

This has not been mentioned in any lists, but I spoke with JetBlue this afternoon and the Rep said that she had heard that this is so.

When in doubt, keep it out:) . Considering everything, I don't see this as a burden on us at all; just an annoying inconvenience.

[AlohaPride]

My mother has been following the writings of a woman, Annie Jacobsen - who writes for Women's Wall Street. In 2004, she was on a flight and experienced a "dry run" of sorts. Here is the link.

http://www.womenswallstreet.com/columns/Column.aspx?aid=578

Since this experience, she has done much research and written about this. I didn't want to post a new thread, but I thought I'd mention that these actions have been in the planning stages for years.

The fact that this plan has been thwarted is a testiment to the hard work of those involved in national and international security.

[Scrumpy]

First, want to DITTO John! Really happy to see a potential attack thwarted and KUDOS to the authorities in the UK who were able to catch these guys!

I'm flying out early a.m. and bear in mind that I understand they have also confiscated chapstick and lipsticks.

Wow! Lip balm? I keep one clipped to my belt loop... Just thinking of the toothpaste was hard. Now, I realize that the eye moisturizers, nasal sprays, and other Flight Spray is also verboten. Hmmmm, I really don't want to fly any more. And, I have to fly in less than 2 weeks. I'll be the one with bad breath, chapped lips, and red eyes who can't stop sniffing. Ah well; we do what we have to do, don't we?

Anxious around here, too, btw. Have relatives leaving to come here from NZ in less than 48 hours, and DH flying home tonight. I actually get a giggle thinking of him cleaning out his laptop bag in spite of things being so serious overall. On the cruise in May, I found EMPTY candy boxes (those big boxes like you get in the movie theater) in his laptop bag. The thing bulges so much one of the zippers broke and he never throws anything away. That is about the only silver lining I can think of, personally. I've been on pins and needles worrying that relatives will cancel their trip. So far, so good.

[AlohaPride]

First, want to DITTO John! Really happy to see a potential attack thwarted and KUDOS to the authorities in the UK who were able to catch these guys!



Wow! Lip balm? I keep one clipped to my belt loop... Just thinking of the toothpaste was hard. Now, I realize that the eye moisturizers, nasal sprays, and other Flight Spray is also verboten. Hmmmm, I really don't want to fly any more. And, I have to fly in less than 2 weeks. I'll be the one with bad breath, chapped lips, and red eyes who can't stop sniffing. Ah well; we do what we have to do, don't we?

Anxious around here, too, btw. Have relatives leaving to come here from NZ in less than 48 hours, and DH flying home tonight. I actually get a giggle thinking of him cleaning out his laptop bag in spite of things being so serious overall. On the cruise in May, I found EMPTY candy boxes (those big boxes like you get in the movie theater) in his laptop bag. The thing bulges so much one of the zippers broke and he never throws anything away. That is about the only silver lining I can think of, personally. I've been on pins and needles worrying that relatives will cancel their trip. So far, so good.

At least you have the OPTION to not fly (road trip, train, bus) I don't have that option. I'm on a red dirt rock in the middle of the ocean. AND any flights to get away from the islands are at least 5-6 hours! I've got a flight from HNL to ATL and then LGA in December (12+ hours). I wish I could take a train instead...but alas, I'm stuck flying :( My lips will be dry, I'll be dehydrated, tired, and I will also have red eyes....not to mention the breath!! It's not going to be a pretty picture :(

[HeatherInFlorida]

Mary, don't panic yet. It's very possible that these strict rules right now will be lightened as time goes on. But maybe not. We'll adjust ... we're strong.

It may not be true about the lip balm. But I heard that today and the Jet Blue Rep said she'd heard that as well. I'm sure as time goes on and people are flying, they'll post their experiences.

I'm leaving in the a.m. and back Wednesday. Certainly let everyone know how a domestic flight into and out of JFK New York is. I'm sure we'll be hearing from many others, too.

We'll get it right and it will be fine.

[gooselace]

My mother has been following the writings of a woman, Annie Jacobsen - who writes for Women's Wall Street. In 2004, she was on a flight and experienced a "dry run" of sorts. Here is the link.

http://www.womenswallstreet.com/columns/Column.aspx?aid=578

Since this experience, she has done much research and written about this. I didn't want to post a new thread, but I thought I'd mention that these actions have been in the planning stages for years.

The fact that this plan has been thwarted is a testiment to the hard work of those involved in national and international security.


Very scary, but entirely credible, article.

I'm been wondering why the airlines are making an exception for baby bottles of milk and juice. Terrorists have babies, or can obtain them in unmentionable ways, and have no compunction about using them for their purposes. Wouldn't it make more sense for the airlines to require that passengers with such items turn them over to the crew for safe-keeping until needed. The passenger should not be allowed to take these items to the lavatories. Same with the wipes, lotions, and other baby items that are being allowed. Any feedings or diaper changes should be made only in full view of a crew member.

The same should be done for prescription liquids & lotions, which are being allowed. It's easy enough for terrorists, just like drug abusers, to get a doctor to write a prescription.

Airlines should be required to have lock-boxes to store such items during flights to prevent them being mixed to produce explosives.

[Scrumpy]

I have the option not to fly if I want to be divorced! LOL! But, after this next flight, I will be trying to avoid it even more than I do already. It's amazing how quickly one can go from hopping on a plane at the drop of a hat to being pulled out of the house kicking and screaming, LOL!

Sorry about your predicament. I'm very lucky because I rarely mind being stuck at home and figure I can put up with the inconvenience a few times a year - most often to visit my family. With grandparents in their 80's, I am willing to jump through hoops to spend time with them. I never know when it will be the last time I see them... But, I don't know about scheduling a regular vacation.

The folks coming from New Zealand have a very long trip with two children. I am SO GLAD they didn't cancel. Just hope they aren't too dehydrated by the time they make it to Colorado. You can get dehydrated around here sitting in a chair!

[Scrumpy]

Btw, DH is at O'Hare right now. Security is moving well; they opened more checkpoints. Longs are line, but they ARE moving at a good pace. Airport is crowded, but overall, he says it isn't as bad as he expected. So, looks like things are going well for travellers headed that way in the immediate future.

[AlohaPride]

gooselace, I think your ideas are well founded and legitimate! I would not mind one bit having my necessary items held for "safe keeping."

Heather, I'm not worried about myself, I'm worried about my DH and those who will see me ;) I will keep you in my prayers tonight and tomorrow as you fly in the middle of this mess. Please be safe!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thanks so much, Mary ... that's so thoughtful of you. If it weren't that we're going to my youngest nephew's wedding, I'd probably delay a bit. But I can't miss that.:)

I'd be perfectly happy with a lockbox for certain items and necessary liquids or prescriptions. Actually, I'm happy to do whatever I need to to keep everyone safe.

[Host Walt]

...Airlines should be required to have lock-boxes to store such items during flights to prevent them being mixed to produce explosives.That sounds like a great idea, but the problem is that the articles would need to be stowed in the lock box before the passenger goes through the security screen.

The only way I can see that working would be if they used one of the Flight Attendant carts and set it up outside the security screening area.

And that creates additional issues if a person is bumped from the flight at the gate because whatever is put in the lock box cannot be accessed by anyone in the "sterile" area.

[boomerSexyK]

I have posted this question on the "Disabled" board, but thought I would pose it here as well. I'm handicapped and use a travel scooter powered by a gel pack battery. I've checked the TSA site posted by Host Walt but there is no mention of these types of things. With the heightened security at the airports, I wonder what the procedure is for this type of apparatus. Our cruise on Zuiderdam isn't until November, and although I realize these restrictions may very well be relaxed by then, it is a contingency I would definitely have to plan for. Maybe my scooter will be placed in checked luggage and I'll just be carried to my seat!!! LOL

[Starbright]

Just heard on Sky News that a meeting is to be held later today to decide how long the ban on hand luggage will remain in force.

[~Nereus~]

Here's the link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2308065_3,00.html

Here's the Do's and Dont's:
WHAT CAN BE TAKEN ON BOARD
ALLOWED
Cash, credit cards, passport, tickets carried in clear plastic bags or folders
Prescription medicines and medican items such as asthma pumps or diabetic kits
Spectacles and sunglasses
Contact lens holders
Women’s sanitary items, such as tampons, pads or towels, although these must be unboxed
Handkerchief and unboxed tissues
Keys, but not electric key fobs
Bottles of water bought air-side at airport (although not for US flights)
Duty-free alcohol and perfume (not US flights)
Travellers with babies will also be allowed to take on board nappies, wipes, cream, nappy disposal bags, baby food and milk

Parent/guardian will be required to taste food and milk at security check
Pushchairs and walking aides will be allowed only if X-ray screened

NI_MPU('middle');
Only airport-issue wheelchairs allowed
All passengers will be hand-searched — including footwear — and all personal items X-ray screened

BANNED
Handbags, books, cameras, iPods, laptops, magazines, food
All liquid items — including drinks, shampoos, gels, perfume, suntan lotion
Spectacle cases, contact lens solution
Nothing must be carried in pockets
US FLIGHTS
All passengers will be subject to a second security check at boarding gate
No duty-free alcohol or perfume
No bottles of water, even if purchased at airport
Hold luggage must remain unlocked or risk locks being broken by security officers

[SDHALFAN]

I just heard from a friend in Australia that Australia is considering a ban on all carry-on luggage forever. I'm not sure if that means just Qantas (and the internal airlines) or if it means for passengers on flights on other countries' airlines.

If you can't take some carry-on baggage with at least a change of underwear, and some essential items like a toothbrush and toothpaste; contact lens solution, moisturizer, then what are you supposed to do - ask the taxi driver who is taking you from airport to hotel to stop at a local mall? Anyone else here ever had their checked luggage lost for several days at a time? It has happened to me three times so far.

I know that the rules are in place to protect us and I truly do appreciate that fact but to ban carry-on luggage completely seems to me to be going overboard (no pun intended). I know that in future I am going to be flying even less than I do now. Thank goodness HAL has cruises out of San Diego, or I would be reduced to taking car trips to neighboring states - lucky me in that all my neighboring states are very interesting and well worth visiting.

Valerie :)

[Scrumpy]

Where did you see this, Valerie? This is pretty disturbing. My BIL and family are booked on Qantas from New Zealand and leaving within less than 24 hours. We've already gone over the newly banned stuff for US travel, but it could be really hairy if they take other measures and no one knows in advance.

I guess I better check the Qantas website... Thanks for posting this!

Hmmm, we are land-locked in Colorado. We'd be driving for days to try to get to a port and the closest one is Galveston...

[~Nereus~]

I think this might be a good time to buy rental-car stock. I often shuttle to Detroit airport 75 miles away to pick up a rental car for cruises out of Ft Lauderdale... 1250 miles away rather than fly. That was before this mess. I have driven twice the 3000 miles to catch a cruise out of Vancouver... but that was pre-Iraq oil prices. I want a cruiseline in the great Lakes. We could visit Cleveland, Buffalo transit the Welland Canal... Montreal to Chicago cruises... forget the stops.:eek:

[Scrumpy]

Qantas is pretty thorough. Didn't see anything about a future ban on carry-ons, but I saw this:

"Given these restrictions, passengers are requested to not purchase items, including, for example, alcohol, perfume, liquid make-up at any of the retail outlets in the departure area. These items will not be permitted on-board the aircraft. Please also note fountain pens containing ink cartridges may not be carried in cabin unless the ink cartridges are removed. If this is not possible pens must be placed in checked baggage..."

Wow, fountain pens. I hadn't thought of those...

[~Nereus~]

Please also note fountain pens containing ink cartridges may not be carried in cabin unless the ink cartridges are removed. If this is not possible pens must be placed in checked baggage..."

Wow, fountain pens. I hadn't thought of those...

You never saw Q's gadgets in James Bond? Obviously the security services just watched the movies and were impressed.:rolleyes:

[Kipling]

"I just heard from a friend in Australia that Australia is considering a ban on all carry-on luggage forever."

Sounds like rubbish to me. Certainly nothing about it on Qantas' site.

I don't think that this sort of rumour should be started without some substantiation.

Cheers

[Scrumpy]

You never saw Q's gadgets in James Bond? Obviously the security services just watched the movies and were impressed.:rolleyes:

You're right. I love those Bond movies and Q is a big reason why. Do they carry this stuff at the spy store? I'm just thinking that the amount of fluid in an ink cartridge is so small that if that quantity is worrisome, perhaps we should have our teeth examined before we board. A couple of fake fluid-filled molars and...well, there ya go...:rolleyes: Didn't spies used to always carry microfiche in their teeth?

[Host Walt]

You're right. I love those Bond movies and Q is a big reason why. Do they carry this stuff at the spy store? I'm just thinking that the amount of fluid in an ink cartridge is so small that if that quantity is worrisome, perhaps we should have our teeth examined before we board. A couple of fake fluid-filled molars and...well, there ya go...:rolleyes: Didn't spies used to always carry microfiche in their teeth?

A contributor on another board raised the question of breast implants. You can imagine how that suggestion developed.

[~Nereus~]

A contributor on another board raised the question of breast implants. You can imagine how that suggestion developed.

For a more potent mix or more volume anyways..how about an implanted beer belly? How would they ever know... or an implanted "pregnancy". Specualtion like this would keep all of us grounded.
But once you force all the liquids into the main hold.. you just need a Q-like triggering device.. An Ink pen bridging two liquids...allow them to mix, and gas everyone on the plane..
I've mentioned this before that the only safe way to fly is without any luggage or belongings..they have to be shipped separately.

[hammybee]

I've mentioned this before that the only safe way to fly is without any luggage or belongings..they have to be shipped separately.

C2C, I agree with your intent. Perhaps this should however, read "the safer way to fly". Remember, then we are flying with other people's luggage on board, unless there are separate flights for the luggage only, not practical.

Carry on luggage has been and remains a huge and costly pain for all carriers, regardless of the state of terrorism. It boggs down the flow of people getting to the gate and slows boarding as well as disembarkation. Imagine how much better the flow of traffic would be, if all that required scanning and examination was, at most, a zip lock bag. It just might make possible to one day again, arrive at an airport,within an hour of a flight and have a reasonable shot at boarding the flight. ( A girl can dream , can't she?)

[bdcbbq]

Carry on luggage has been and remains a huge and costly pain for all carriers, regardless of the state of terrorism. It boggs down the flow of people getting to the gate and slows boarding as well as disembarkation. Imagine how much better the flow of traffic would be, if all that required scanning and examination was, at most, a zip lock bag. It just might make possible to one day again, arrive at an airport,within an hour of a flight and have a reasonable shot at boarding the flight. ( A girl can dream , can't she?)

No one trusts the airlines to handle their baggage. There are enough thefts and loss bags as it is. Just think of the problems airlines would have when they increased the security to prevent theft and loss luggage. I'm guessing on any one flight an average of 99% of the people carry at least one of these items: PDA, laptop, cell phone, camera, camcorder, electronic game, or mp3 player, and they would not want to pack them in their luggage.

I would be willing to pack my laptop if I felt it would be safe from theft in my luggage.

[Host Walt]

No one trusts the airlines to handle their baggage. There are enough thefts and loss bags as it is. Just think of the problems airlines would have when they increased the security to prevent theft and loss luggage. I'm guessing on any one flight an average of 99% of the people carry at least one of these items: PDA, laptop, cell phone, camera, camcorder, electronic game, or mp3 player, and they would not want to pack them in their luggage.

I would be willing to pack my laptop if I felt it would be safe from theft in my luggage.I suspect that things will be changing permanently (they already have to some extent).

Necessity vs. convenience and required vs. "nice to have" will be the motive when packing.

For example, who NEEDS a family heirloom piece of jewelry on a 7 day cruise, or a business laptop or an expensive SLR camera?

The jewelry can be left home along with the laptop (web access can be accomplished using public computers on board ship) and excellent quality low priced digital cameras can take great photos.

Recreational devices like iPods are also sufficiently inexpensive that a travel version will do all that's required.

Toiletries can be left home as well (but why do that?) and purchased on the fly.

[~Nereus~]

For example, who NEEDS a family heirloom piece of jewelry on a 7 day cruise, or a business laptop or an expensive SLR camera?

The jewelry can be left home along with the laptop (web access can be accomplished using public computers on board ship) and excellent quality low priced digital cameras can take great photos.


Toiletries can be left home as well (but why do that?) and purchased on the fly.

I won't even get in a plane for a seven day cruise. I normally go for 4 to 6 weeks at a time. We carry our stash of jewelry, including my cuff links and my wife's earrings and assorted finishing touches for her outfits. They are not heirlooms by any stretch. How can security look at several gold necklaces and rings and cufflinks as bomb-making material. I just know I can't trust the airlines to secure it while in their possession. When I cruise to the Mediterranean or St Petersburg I won't trust my picture memories to a cheap digital. And those serious photographers with film cameras... X-rays on bags will kill their film. I carry my laptop for picture storage and editing. Those computer labs on any ship cannot handle the passengers if everyone had to use them to store and download their pictures.
The toiletries. Welcome to the next great unwashed generation . I used to carry my own neck brace or pillow support when I travel. How many passengers have had to spend the night in an airport? Or even how many have had to get a room when flights are cancelled. I have always wondered why there are no shower facilities at airports just as truckstops have. What can you do about these delays if we can no longer have our overnight emergency bags?

[Host Walt]

I won't even get in a plane for a seven day cruise. I normally go for 4 to 6 weeks at a time. We carry our stash of jewelry, including my cuff links and my wife's earrings and assorted finishing touches for her outfits. They are not heirlooms by any stretch. How can security look at several gold necklaces and rings and cufflinks as bomb-making material. I just know I can't trust the airlines to secure it while in their possession. When I cruise to the Mediterranean or St Petersburg I won't trust my picture memories to a cheap digital. And those serious photographers with film cameras... X-rays on bags will kill their film. I carry my laptop for picture storage and editing. Those computer labs on any ship cannot handle the passengers if everyone had to use them to store and download their pictures.
The toiletries. Welcome to the next great unwashed generation . I used to carry my own neck brace or pillow support when I travel. How many passengers have had to spend the night in an airport? Or even how many have had to get a room when flights are cancelled. I have always wondered why there are no shower facilities at airports just as truckstops have. What can you do about these delays if we can no longer have our overnight emergency bags?Virtually every question you ask could have been asked fifty years ago when many traveled by train where their bags were stowed in totally unsecured racks at the end of each car and no showers were available to freshen up on board or in the stations.

You didn't ask, for example, why SST's are no longer available so that trans-Atlantic and Pacific travel can be reduced to just a few hours. Or the good old days where one could drive up to the airplane and drop off passengers (as we did often in the 1960's) and so on.

As terrorism increases, the loss of creature comforts and conveniences increase as well.

Don't fret. As the restrictions increase, as they will continue to do, the smart guys will find a way to mitigate the inconveniences to satisfy the travelers' needs. The only other option is a deterioration of the leisure travel market, which is the foundation of the economies of many nations.

[~Nereus~]

Virtually every question you ask could have been asked fifty years ago

Up until a hundred years ago people took a bath once a year. Our grandparents/parents had a weekly bath. Today some people would die without a refreshing morning shower. Imagine travelling the old way in a cabin of recirculated air.:eek:

[hammybee]

I suspect that things will be changing permanently (they already have to some extent).

__________________________________________________ ______________

I could not agree more. As previously stated, there are an abundance of practical reasons to eliminate carry-on baggage, in addition to the very real threat they pose to air safety.

Like most folk, I carry my jewelry ( costume), camera, essential clothing in case the real baggage does not make it, assorted books, mags, water, Dr. Pepper, treats and what not with me , when I fly. I am sure I have at least 50 pounds in my compact carry-on, with wheels. It's convenient and I am going to miss this convenience in the future.

It was not that long ago that business travellers carried massive folding garment bags on board and smokers smoked while flying ( please, let's not go there) and in time, they adjusted when changes were made for the overall good and safety of all passengers. Yeah, there is a real problem with luggage pilfering and maybe the airlines will spot a business opportunity when they see one. Just like our mail, maybe passengers will be able to purchase extra service to increase the liklihood that the luggage will arrive with the flight, with all of its contents intact, at the destination. Yeah, this should happen anyway, but this is a whole new ballgame.

What I have yet to figure out, is what, if anything, will prevent any of us from
sticking a book in our pants, toothpaste in our pocket or any non-metal somewhere it is too impractical to check. And if we can do it, so can those whose motives have nothing to do with convenience. For those of you old enough to remember, girldles ( unisex?) may make a come- back to hold all our must have, while flying, stuff .

[~Nereus~]

What I have yet to figure out, is what, if anything, will prevent any of us from
sticking a book in our pants, toothpaste in our pocket or any non-metal somewhere it is too impractical to check. And if we can do it, so can those whose motives have nothing to do with convenience.

That's what I meant with my fake beer belly...without feeling up the passenger how do you know?
If the checked baggage was handled by the like of UPS & FedEx, including payment of insurance for value of contents, few would fear loss of their belongings. With a 1% average loss history, it's the airlines which have created this mess. I think the airlines should rent out counter space to more reliable companies.

[OldCodger73]

Carry on luggage has been and remains a huge and costly pain for all carriers, regardless of the state of terrorism. It boggs down the flow of people getting to the gate and slows boarding as well as disembarkation. Imagine how much better the flow of traffic would be, if all that required scanning and examination was, at most, a zip lock bag. It just might make possible to one day again, arrive at an airport,within an hour of a flight and have a reasonable shot at boarding the flight. ( A girl can dream , can't she?)

Of course the flip side of this is that airlines would have to improve their dismal luggage handling at the destination airport, where waits of 30 - 45 minutes for your checked luggage are considered speedy. Imagine if everything had to be checked how much longer it would take.

[OldCodger73]

I suspect that things will be changing permanently (they already have to some extent).

Necessity vs. convenience and required vs. "nice to have" will be the motive when packing.

For example, who NEEDS a family heirloom piece of jewelry on a 7 day cruise, or a business laptop or an expensive SLR camera?


Walt, I realize that you're talking about recreation traveling here. However, I think once the initial hysteria dies down reason will prevail and carry-ons will not be permanently banned. The reason? For most airlines it's the business traveler paying for higher priced short notice tickets that allows them to make money-- or not loose as much-- not the vacationer with the cheap ticket. And business travelers feel the need to take their laptops and carry-on bags on their trips. Airlines don't want to alienate this lucrative segment of their market and will do all they can in their power to convice a paranoid Home Land Security not to eliminate carry-ons.

[~Nereus~]

where waits of 30 - 45 minutes for your checked luggage are considered speedy.

Where can you get your bag in 30 minutes? I'm flying into the wrong airport.:eek:

[middle-aged mom]

Walt, I realize that you're talking about recreation traveling here. However, I think once the initial hysteria dies down reason will prevail and carry-ons will not be permanently banned. The reason? For most airlines it's the business traveler paying for higher priced short notice tickets that allows them to make money-- or not loose as much-- not the vacationer with the cheap ticket. And business travelers feel the need to take their laptops and carry-on bags on their trips. Airlines don't want to alienate this lucrative segment of their market and will do all they can in their power to convice a paranoid Home Land Security not to eliminate carry-ons.

Hear, hear! My sister spends, on average, 50-70 hours per month travelling by air for business. She has a frantic schedule, and sometimes flies multiple itineraries in one day. She doesn't have the time, or the luxury, to check her luggage. The ban on liquids in aircraft cabins has been a challenge, but it has not stopped her from taking all her non-liquid accoutrements onboard with her. She's buying what toiletries she needs on her layovers, and then disposing of them before she gets to the airport. She feels that the whole liquid/gel ban is a short-lived situation.

[Host Walt]

Where can you get your bag in 30 minutes? I'm flying into the wrong airport.:eek:Try flying on a company jet. That's about it.

A recent 58 minute flight from LAX to SFO was followed by a 58 minute wait for the bags to flop out onto the carousel and another 10 minutes for mine to finally appear. And we were only half full on a 737, about 60 pax.

Now with a required 2 hour domestic check-in at LAX plus another 2-1/2 hours from scheduled departure time to the SFO Hertz Express station, the 5 hour drive up Interstate 5 with my laptop, Crystal Geyser and built in CD player is looking pretty darned good. And cheaper, too, even with the high price of California grade gas. (LAX parking, air fare, car rental, tips. And with a colleague going along, it's a no brainer.)

[hammybee]

On my last translantic flight, I sat next to a guy who worked for a U.S. carrier who told me the day will soon come, that almost every domestic flight, anywhere, was going to take at least 8 hours airport to airport.

It made me laugh given, given some of the commutes from NYC can take this long, on a not too unusual, bad day.

[hammybee]

Hear, hear! My sister spends, on average, 50-70 hours per month travelling by air for business. She has a frantic schedule, and sometimes flies multiple itineraries in one day. She doesn't have the time, or the luxury, to check her luggage.

I wonder if your sister has my former job.

Business and/or the people have and will continue to change to accommodate travel time. Before I gave up one rat race for another, it was taking well more than an hour to arrive at a business meeting, across the the street, in Manhatten.The need to register with building security, obtain clearance and go through airport like security, in many office buildings easily ate an hour. Forget the purse. Forget the brief case. Forget the cup of coffee. And much of this has been in place for 3.5 years in some NYC buildings. And when the meeting was over, you got to do it all again, to return to your own office.

[middle-aged mom]

I wonder if your sister has my former job.

Business and/or the people have and will continue to change to accommodate travel time. Before I gave up one rat race for another, it was taking well more than an hour to arrive at a business meeting, across the the street, in Manhatten.The need to register with building security, obtain clearance and go through airport like security, in many office buildings easily ate an hour. Forget the purse. Forget the brief case. Forget the cup of coffee. And much of this has been in place for 3.5 years in some NYC buildings. And when the meeting was over, you got to do it all again, to return to your own office.

Wow, it sounds like living in prison:(. I swear, I don't know how my sister and others like her do it. I used to fly for Pan Am out of JFK way back when, and I lived in mid-town Manhattan. I couldn't in a million years envision myself doing that now. I feel like I live my life in an oasis, compared to some of you. I think my total disenchantment with air travel is why I'm now looking to cruising for our vacations.

(I just realized that almost every single sentence in my post begins with "I". Hmmmmm, maybe it's time to readjust my focus.....)

[~Nereus~]

From British leaflet

http://www.heathrowairport.com/assets/B2CPortal/Static%20Files/Security_flyer.pdf

[hammybee]

(I just realized that almost every single sentence in my post begins with "I". Hmmmmm, maybe it's time to readjust my focus.....)

Are we feeling megalomaniac today?

[hammybee]

That's what I meant with my fake beer belly

Some people get to have all the fun.

[mtk]

I've seen the list of banned items. Cameras and laptops are banned? How you protect the items. Do they get tagged at the gate for secure travel? I have had too many things stolen from checked baggage to trust the baggage handlers now that the airlines are hiring more handlers than ever the chances of stolen electronics goes way up. Did anyone on recent flights have problems?

[~Nereus~]

I've seen the list of banned items. Cameras and laptops are banned? How you protect the items. Do they get tagged at the gate for secure travel? I have had too many things stolen from checked baggage to trust the baggage handlers now that the airlines are hiring more handlers than ever the chances of stolen electronics goes way up. Did anyone on recent flights have problems?

Flights to the UK have banned these items. Into the hold they must go.

[mtk]

OK for security reasons. But will we see them again? Is the airlines upping their insurance for loss?

[~Nereus~]

OK for security reasons. But will we see them again? Is the airlines upping their insurance for loss?
The airlines will pay about $20 per kilo for lost luggage. Check your home-owners insurance. You will probably have to pay extra for lited items.
Here is the latest update from CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/08/11/airline.security.rules/

[OldCodger73]

Where can you get your bag in 30 minutes? I'm flying into the wrong airport.:eek:

This was at SeaTac on a flight from LAX. Of course the year was 1995, the last time I checked luggage.

I picked up a bother and sister-in-law at SeaTac 3 July of this year. They were on a Horizon turboprop flight from GTF and from the time I met them at the gate until their baggage arrived on the carrousel couldn't have been more than 30 minutes.

[~Nereus~]

The easiest solution to this whole debacle and requiring the least manpower was to allow all carryons to be stored in the normal way but with no access once onboard. Bags would be inspected and tagged and onboard personel could have placed items in the overhead bin. Suspect materials such as lotions and liquids could still have been banned. Cameras and computers would be under supervision by their owners even though they would have no access till their destinations. Airplane manufacturers would place locks on all overhead bins and access would be controlled from the flight deck upon arrival. Perhaps the airlines or Samsonite could design a standardized carryon that would be inspected and locked by security prior to embarkation. A standardized unlocking device could be installed and used upon leaving the aircraft or at the luggage claim area while waiting for checked luggage. In this way our belongings would be secure and in our own hands in case of flight delays.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Some good suggestions!!

[juliecat]

If you're traveling soon you'll want to check the TSA website. They have changed some of the restrictions (ie lipstick now allowed) and do a much better job of listing what is and is not allowed on the planes. They even spell out what liquor can and cannot be placed in your checked bag.

Link is here:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/new-procedures.shtm

J

[~Nereus~]

Link is here:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/new-procedures.shtm



Finally some common sense.
Laptop computers, cellular phones, iPods, and other portable electronic devices are still allowed on board an aircraft. These items must still be screened at the security checkpoint.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I don't own a laptop, ipod, or other portable things. We never take our cell phone with us.

Sounds like we are off to a good start in October.

[barriesdad]

Announcement today in UK with regard to travel from UK:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_about/documents/page/dft_about_612280.hcsp

Basically one item of cabin baggage allowed onboard with maximum dimensions of 45cmx35cmx16cm (18"x14"x6"). Still no liquids or gels.

This will allow most electrical items to be carried onboard.

Lloyd

[Starbright]

Thanks for that Lloyd. I hadn't heard that this morning.

We'll be travelling in September and were really worried about putting our cameras in the hold. Hopefull now we'll be able to carry them on board. :)

Starbright

[barriesdad]

You're very welcome, Starbright.

We were very worried too. We leave week on Saturday. It would seem that we will now be able to bring our camera, camcorder, DW's jewellery and mobile phones onboard with us. Not really bothered about anything else being in the checked baggage.

Lloyd

[Starbright]

Lloyd

That's exactly how we feel. I don't care if I have to put my toiletries and cosmetics etc in the hold, but our cameras (both digital SLR and video) are precious to us. It would spoil our holiday if we couldn't take them with us and we certainly wouldn't want to trust them to the gentle treatment they receive by airline baggage handlers! (or the risk of them being stolen).

Like you, we're flying to Vancouver and I was dreading such a long flight without a book and a small piece of embroidery (no scissors!) to pass the time.

Hope you have a great cruise on the Zuiderdam. We'll be boarding her on 30 September for her repositioning cruise through the Panama Canal. How could we do that without any photographic souvenirs?

[barriesdad]

Starbright,

Not only are we doing the cruise on the Zuiderdam on 9th Sept but we have 2 weeks prior to that in Ottawa for 5 days then a 9 day tour through the Canadian Rockies. It would've been heartbreaking if we were'nt able to bring back photographic and video evidence for us and our family and friends to look back on.

Enjoy your cruise at end of Sept and I will report back on our time on the Zuiderdam before you go.

Lloyd

[Starbright]

Lloyd

I know exactly what you mean. I see the other day you referred to your holiday as a "holiday of a lifetime" and this is what our cruise is too. It's a special holiday to celebrate my retirement (last day at work tomorrow!).

I hope your whole trip is wonderful and look forward to reading your review about Zuiderdam on your return. Have a safe journey!

Starbright

[barriesdad]

Starbright,

Yes it's our Silver Wedding anniversary in November so we decided we would treat ourselves to "our trip of a lifetime" I hope we don't have to wait another 25 years for our next one!! ;)

Good luck in your retirement and hope you have many more trips to look forward to.

Lloyd