An Experiement

[hammybee]

Many of us know that most cruise lines experiement with trends to determine passenger reaction and/or to work out the kinks. It got me wondering if HAL might, at some future date, designate certain intineraries/ships as country club/ resort casual. For example, one ship in Alaska, for the season, might be so designated while another would maintain traditional attire. Would this solve the dilema about attire?

I picked Alaska only because of the plethora of HAL ships with similar intineraries.The same could be said for winter in the Caribbean.

I wonder which ship would sell out first, if everything else was equal.

[Krazy Kruizers]

No comment here from the older group!!

[the2ofus]

I don't think it would have any real effect. We all have seen so many people who have said "I like to cruise on HAL because of ......but I'd like it so much better if HAL would do this.......that RCCL does. The same would happen re: dress code. "I really like to sail on the Xdam, I like this itinerary better. Why can't they change the dress code on this ship too?"

Frankly, I don't understand this need to homogenize the product so that every line offers the same bland, boring experience. What's wrong with each line having a distinct personality from which the public can make their choice.

[Pudgesmom]

I know I'll be among the minority here, but I would book another HAL cruise sooner if the country club casual were offered. We enjoyed this ambiance on Windstar, and are considering Oceania because of it. None of the mass market cruise lines have this now, so maybe it would be a draw for others like us.

Beth

[Grumpy1]

Remember when Oldsmobile was going to do great things with the slogan "It's not your father's Oldsmobile"?.. and they had all of those versions that were supposed to appeal to younger drivers and soccer moms and whatever other segment came along, while still keeping the traditional lines too. It didn't work for Oldsmobile and I don't think splintering the brand by trying to offer different cruise experiences would work for HAL either.

[rxralph]

Why are so many people concerned about how others dress? Once they are seated only the nosiest can tell they are wearing jeans!

[RuthC]

As in HAL vs HAL-lite, hammybee? :confused: I don't think it would work for very long---if at all.

Designate one ship as the "resort casual" and sure as shootin' someone's going to come along and decide they want to go casual, but like the itinerary better on a different ship. Their argument will be "if they can dress that way on the Otherdam, then I can dress that way on Thisdam.
Then there's going to be the passenger who wants 2 formal, three informal, and first/last nights resort casual, but wants the itinerary on the all-resort casual.

That's the problem seen with the HAL vs HAL-lite of the S- and R-class ships vs the Vistas. You can't advertise the Vista's as family friendly, more casual, etc, then expect the passengers you have attracted to stay away from the older ships. They're going to want to try something "else" and will be surprised when it is something "different".

Many people want all-casual. Fortunately, there are lines that provide that very thing! :)
I don't know of any line, though, that provides all-dress up. :(

[lougee1043]

[quote=hammybee]. It got me wondering if HAL might, at some future date, designate certain intineraries/ships as country club/ resort casual. For example, one ship in Alaska, for the season, might be so designated while another would maintain traditional attire. Would this solve the dilema about attire?quote]

i think my ta put me on the wrong ship - i wanted casual and he put me on a traditional one --can i change ships in skagway and can i get the same cabin

[kryos]

I picked Alaska only because of the plethora of HAL ships with similar intineraries.The same could be said for winter in the Caribbean.

I wonder which ship would sell out first, if everything else was equal.
Caribbean or Mexico would also work since there are more than one ship doing those itineraries.

My guess would be that the country club casual ships would sell out so fast on these itineraries that HAL would eventually wind up switching all their ships doing these shorter, popular destination cruises to country club casual. I know HAL traditionalists don't like to hear this, but with airlines reducing weight limits on baggage, packing lighter ... in actuality smarter ... is going to become almost a necessity. No one is going to want to have to pack the variety of clothes necessary to have different styles of dress each night. And, since many, many people have to fly in order to get to the ship, the comment cards are gonna reflect that preference over the next several months more so than at any other time in the past.

I'd be willing to bet that within less than a year, you're going to see most HAL voyages go to an "optional formal nights" format, if not full-blown country club casual for the entire voyage.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Many people want all-casual. Fortunately, there are lines that provide that very thing! :)

Yeah, but HAL is not gonna want to lose all those passengers to other cruise lines, Ruth.

Believe me, HAL will do whatever it takes to prevent these passengers from defecting to other cruise lines. And, I'll bet the vast majority of these folks taking the shorter, more popular destination cruises want to see a country club casual dress code. They have a voice, and I'll bet they've raised it overwhelmingly in favor of this sort of thing on their customer survey forms ... just as I'll bet their past comments have been the impetus for HAL trying out this new "Dine as You Please" flexible dining time experiment.

In general, the people who take the shorter cruises don't give a hoot about the "glory days" of cruising ... where everyone dressed up and everything was very formal. They want a fun time and a relaxed atmosphere. They are also very much subject to the airline's new luggage requirements and thus need to pack "smarter" now more than they ever did before. Lots of stuff put into that suitcase is gonna have to come out before the bags are locked and readied to go to the airport. Packing for one style of dress will sure make things a lot simpler.

Now, I know exactly what you are going to say ... they can dine in the Lido, can't they? True, they can do that ... but a lot of them won't. They are on vacation and they want to be served just like everyone else. If they can't go to the dining room because it's formal night and they didn't pack any formal clothes, then they'll simply order room service ... thus overwhelming that department. Alternatively, they'll go to the dining room in their casual wear and will be seated and served with no problem.

So, believe me ... I give it a year tops for HAL to convert at least the Vista Class ships ... if not all ships during the shorter, more popular destination itineraries ... such as Alaska and the Caribbean ... to switch over to a "formal nights optional" type of dining format.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[babyher]

As the OP said, this would be an "experiment"

HAL has 4 or 5 ships in one place at the same time (Alaska, Caribbean, whatever), manke one of them all casual. Try it for a period of time and see how it goes. If the casual ship is a constant sell out and the feedback is good, you keep it. If if it isn't, you dump it.

Similar to Carnival with The Paradise (Non smoking ship) . At some time Carnival must have gotten enough comments about and requests for a non smoking ship, so they gave it a try and set aside one ship as non smoking.

It didn't get the response they thought so they eventually ditched it.

Let HAL try this with casual dress and see where it goes.

[jhannah]

Frankly, I don't understand this need to homogenize the product so that every line offers the same bland, boring experience. What's wrong with each line having a distinct personality from which the public can make their choice. My sentiments exactly! I choose Holland America because of what it is. Start changing that too much and I'll choose elsewhere.

[gizmo]

My sentiments exactly! I choose Holland America because of what it is. Start changing that too much and I'll choose elsewhere.

Me Too !

[Tricia724]

I really can't see the concept being that big a draw.

Look how many people are opposed to smoking, and as someone else mentioned, the Carnival Paradise, sailing as a non-smoking ship, was not highly successful. Likewise, Renaissance Cruise Lines.....when they were in business.....were initially non-smoking but eventually relented to appeal to a wider group of cruisers.

Look how many people try to plan their cruises to avoid children, so you would think an "adults only" ship would also be a smashing success. I did, too. But Celebrity took a stab at providing several cruises a year that were adults only which seemed to get a lukewarm response. I don't know whether they have given up on this idea completely, but I haven't seen anything on them lately.

Even though dress codes seems to be another hot topic, I don't believe there are many people who would plan a cruise based on the dress code alone. I still think cost, itinerary, and timing are going to be the major determining factors of the cruise with dress code further down the line.

[bepsf]

Packing a tux takes as much room as a suit, and packing some evening gowns takes as little room as a regualr dress - so whats the big deal?

If passengers want casual all week - there are already choices out there for them: Oceania, NCL, Windstar, Carnival...

If folks want Formal all week, they have Cunard.

I like HAL the way it is, Thankyouverymuch - and don't wish to see it made into an Oldsmobile.

[The Tsar]

HAL has one of the most loyal following with their Mariners. There is a reason for that. They must be doing something right.

"If it ain"t broken, don"t fix it!"

[CCCM]

hammybee, I think you pose an interesting question, gets us all thinking of the different things they could experiment with.

For me it wouldn't impact me one way or the other. I would be in Alaska more for the scenery and adventures than the dressing. The two cruises being equal and I can get whichever cabin I want on either ship, it would depend on who I was sailing with. If it were my choice, I would do a B2B (one on each) to experiment and see which one I like best.

Can anyone else think of anything they can experiment with on us? Perhaps no chocolate on the ship. :eek:

[Mary Ellen]

Similar to Carnival with The Paradise (Non smoking ship) . At some time Carnival must have gotten enough comments about and requests for a non smoking ship, so they gave it a try and set aside one ship as non smoking. A different situation. The Paradise was Carnival's ship with highest % cabins booked. The problem was the ship made the least money of any in the fleet because of poor casino and liquer/bar revenue. Apparently non-smokers (as a whole) tend to drink and gamble less than smokers.

[jhannah]

Can anyone else think of anything they can experiment with on us? Perhaps no chocolate on the ship. :eek: Don't say that! You'll give RuthC a heart attack!!!

[Atomica]

I think this is a very interesting discussion.

But, having said that, I think that HAL won't deviate too much from it's business model. It may try new things within that, but I think they recognize that their core customers, regardless of age, are booking HAL for a specific reason, that being the experience they get onboard.

Now, the great thing is that there is a line out there for everyone! Want lots of dining choice and no dress code? Choose NCL. Want a mix of casual and formal? Princess might be your choice. Or, if you're like me, you'll cruise on whichever ship appeals to you.

Interestingly, Royal Olympic Cruises (now no more) tried something along the same lines several years ago. They had 6 ships or so - three with dark blue hulls and three with white hulls - the strategy was that the blue hulled ships offered the more 'elegant' experience, whereas the white hulled ones offered a casual experience. The concept didn't work out that well (people wanted experience 'a' on ship 'b' on itinerary 'c' - which of course probably wasn't offered'), and all the ships were repainted blue in 1999 before the company folded in 2004.

[arzz]

Viva l'difference! I echo those out there who do not wish to change their "father's Oldsmobile!" We have many cruise lines because they are different -- if they all become the same it will not matter who we cruise with, and we will all have the same, bland, one size fits all experience no matter where we go. In the long run there is no fun it that, and I truly believe in the long run everyone will tire of it. It will become boring.

Keep HAL what HAL is -- that is what makes it distinct and that is what attracts folks to HAL. I do not see the line hurting. I have seen every ship I have taken in the last couple of years sail full -- what more do you want? I have seen the prices rise and the ships are still sailing full.

As a cruiser, over the twenty some years that I have been cruising, I have matured in my tastes, and my pocketbook has become, shall we say, a little more flexible. As such we moved from choosing an inside cabin on the cheapest cruise that we could tolerate to the luxury of becoming discerning passengers who choose based upon itinerary and cruise line (to the extent that our pocketbook flexes). If all lines become identical, as we change over the years, there will be nowhere to go that is any different that what which we have done for years, and many of us may just stop cruising.

I do not know how often I would cruise now that we are retired if it was all 7 day mass market cruises to the Caribbean and Alaska. We no longer cruise just to get away from the stress of our jobs. It is the attraction of the longer itineraries and more interesting ports that keep me going, as well as the knowledge that when we choose HAL each cruise will be like coming back to a favored "summer home".

[RuthC]

Can anyone else think of anything they can experiment with on us? Perhaps no chocolate on the ship. :eek:
Now that's where I draw the line. :mad:
Don't say that! You'll give RuthC a heart attack!!!
Last thing she needs is another one of those. :rolleyes: