Tipping in the Pinnacle Grill

[Sugarina]

Dear fellow HAL "pals",

Would someone be able to give me an idea of how much I should tip whom in the Pinnacle? Usually I go with 25 - 30% of the total bill when I'm "on land", but then the meals I go out for on a regular basis are a total of $40.00 for my husband and I, and not just a surcharge....:rolleyes:

I read in another website that one should tip the entire wait team, which is fine....I just wish to know how much is recommended. :confused:

Thanks,

B.L.T.

[dakrewser]

We leave $20 (cash) for the waiter who, we assume, "tips out" the busboy, assistants, etc. Unless the wine steward has to work extra hard the 15% added to the beverage bill is sufficient, IMHO.

[hammybee]

We leave $10-15, depending upon the wine and service, and let the wait staff figure out how to share it.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We give each individual who waits on us in the Pinnacle a tip - we give it to each one individually. We do not give it to one person and expect that person to divide it among the others.

Even though there is a 15% gratuity added onto the bar bill, we also give the wine steward a little something extra.

[kryos]

$10.00 per person is our usual. If we have a table for four, that's $40.00.

I'd be willing to bet that some of that $20.00 per person surcharge for the Pinnacle goes to gratuities. In fact, I'm almost sure of it.

I usually don't kick anything in for a wine steward tip because I don't use him. I usually just have iced tea and coffee as my beverages in the Pinnacle (and the dining room as well).

Blue skies ...

--rita

[sail7seas]

I wonder how you are so sure that some of the $20 per person charge for Pinnacle goes to the stewards. I am quite sure that is not the case.

I'd really love to read the reference/authority that gives that information as it would mean I have been mistakenly advised.

Thanks for supplying that information.

[Copper10-8]

To answer the OP's question, we usually leave a tip of $15 on the table.

Does anybody here know if the wait staff in the Pinnacle is divided into waiters and assistant waiters similar to the diningroom? Or are they all waiters? I know we usually have a "primary" waiter who comes and explains the various meats, cuts and preparations and serves the meals. There is usally another individual who fills up the water glasses as an asst. waiter would do but am not sure if that person has his/her "own" tables as a "regular" waiter and they switch off with each other.

Also, does anyone know if the Pinnacle still has Hungarian (or eastern European) wait staff? When the Pinnacle concept first started, it was almost all Eastern European waiters but lately it looks like they are being replaced by the Indonesian guys. Just wondering if the Hungarians/Romanians etc. are leaving

[sail7seas]

It is my understand, John, that a teeny portion of the $10 per person per day automatic tip trickles down to Pinnacle Stewards but it can't be very much.

On Maasdam, there were several Indonesian Stewards, a British fellow and I don't recall there being any Eastern Europeans.

I seem to recall there were a few Europeans in Pinnacle on Ryndam in April.

From my casual observation, I seem to see a trend going back to a majority of Pinnacle Stewards being Indonesian.

[doone]

On the Volendam this past February, I saw alot more European servers in the Pinnacle, as a matter of fact, I believe there was only 1 Indonesian gentleman. Maybe this has changed on the Volendam and other ships in the last 6 months or so, but that's what I saw in February.

[Copper10-8]

It is my understand, John, that a teeny portion of the $10 per person per day automatic tip trickles down to Pinnacle Stewards but it can't be very much.

On Maasdam, there were several Indonesian Stewards, a British fellow and I don't recall there being any Eastern Europeans.

I seem to recall there were a few Europeans in Pinnacle on Ryndam in April.

From my casual observation, I seem to see a trend going back to a majority of Pinnacle Stewards being Indonesian.



Thank you Ma'am! On Prinsendam the entire Pinnacle staff, with the exception of PG chef Joerg, was Indonesian including the manager, Johnny Paruenga (probably messed up his last name) so I think you're right with that trend observation;) . One of the PG waiters/stewards was a guy by the name of Fitri, who we first saw several years ago as an asst. steward walking around the Lido restaurant pushing a coffee cart and singing "Good Morning to You" and "I have coffee for you". They won't let him sing anymore in the PG;)

[Copper10-8]

On the Volendam this past February, I saw alot more European servers in the Pinnacle, as a matter of fact, I believe there was only 1 Indonesian gentleman. Maybe this has changed on the Volendam and other ships in the last 6 months or so, but that's what I saw in February.

Thanks! Maybe it's still a mix depending on what ship you're on. It's been our experience that most of the Eastern Europeans are very formal (probably the way they were trained at home) some almost on the stiff side with absolutely no smiles (not that there's anything wrong with that.;) )

[kryos]

I wonder how you are so sure that some of the $20 per person charge for Pinnacle goes to the stewards. I am quite sure that is not the case.

I'd really love to read the reference/authority that gives that information as it would mean I have been mistakenly advised.

Thanks for supplying that information.
That's a question I'm gonna ask the next time I am onboard. I was told it's that way in the specialty restaurants on Princess, but no ... never bothered to ask anyone on HAL ... but, I am sure it almost *has* to be the case. I tend to be a pretty observant person ... and I noticed quite often that people left their service staff NOTHING at the Pinnacle Grill. Why? Not because they were necessarily cheap, but rather because they simply didn't think and hadn't brought any pocket money with them to the Pinnacle. And, after all, why should they? Most people stash their wallets in the safe and only take them out for going ashore. I never carry ANY money around the ship with me ... because I know that I don't need to. It's only because I read these boards that I make it a point to pull out a $10 for tipping at the Pinnacle.

When I went to a group dinner in the Pinnacle arranged for the singles and solos on my last cruise, we had two tables of six to eight people dining there. Of the entire group, I think three of us left a $10 tip each. The others either had no money with them, or said "tips aren't necessary here ... the $20 covers it." I think most people "stiff" the Pinnacle waiters based on that presumption.

So, no Sail, I don't have it on authority that this is a fact ... but suggest that the next time you dine in the Pinnacle, you make it a point to observe what other tables are leaving their waitstaff ... and understand that the vast majority of them are not "saavy" cruisers; i.e., they don't read Cruise Critic and wouldn't necessarily know that it is customary to tip your service person at the Pinnacle.

So ... it is for that reason that I am sure a portion of that $20 has to be allocated for service. If this wasn't so, then I doubt you'd have any wait staff willing to work in the Pinnacle. They'd all want to be assigned to the dining room instead where their tips are reasonably assured.

Doesn't that make sense?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[hammybee]

Thanks! Maybe it's still a mix depending on what ship you're on. It's been our experience that most of the Eastern Europeans are very formal (probably the way they were trained at home) some almost on the stiff side with absolutely no smiles (not that there's anything wrong with that.;) )

It has been our experience that the wait staff in the grill has been primarily European. Of the ones that we chatted up, the HAL gig was definitely temporary given the amount of education and experience they had, in other professions. It makes sense that the Indonesian staff might be the future trend as most tend to view HAL as a career rather than stepping stone.

[ekerr19]

We tip about $10 pp to the steward, and about $3 - $4 pp to the asst. steward, if he's in attendance. During our meal on the Noordam a couple weeks ago, he wasn't - the steward was our only waitperson, maybe because it wasn't crowded yet.

We usually leave the 15% stand for the wine steward unless he's been extra helpful or made an excellent reommendation (as was the case on our last visit) then we give a bit extra.

All the waitstaff we saw and encountered in the Pinnacle were Indonesian (this was on the Noordam) though, it wasn't the case on the inaugural in February.

[hammybee]

That's a question I'm gonna ask the next time I am onboard. I was told it's that way in the specialty restaurants on Princess, but no ... never bothered to ask anyone on HAL ... but, I am sure it almost *has* to be the case. I tend to be a pretty observant person ... and I noticed quite often that people left their service staff NOTHING at the Pinnacle Grill. Why? Not because they were necessarily cheap, but rather because they simply didn't think and hadn't brought any pocket money with them to the Pinnacle. And, after all, why should they? Most people stash their wallets in the safe and only take them out for going ashore. I never carry ANY money around the ship with me ... because I know that I don't need to. It's only because I read these boards that I make it a point to pull out a $10 for tipping at the Pinnacle.

The first time we dined in the Pinnacle, we were not carrying cash because, like you said, we do not usually carry cash onboard. We were impressed with the service and the meal. After dinner we returned to our cabin for $ and then went back to the Pinnacle.

I think this board has speculated and debated the circular thread of whether or not and how much the Pinnacle waiters share in the primary tip pool as well as if the tips left in the Pinnacle are pooled within the Pinnacle or the primary pool of tips. At the end of the day and thread, this is what I inferred:

There is something potentially inappropriate about questioning anyone, at anytime, about their compensation.

Most of us tip for good service while dining out, on land, even though we have no idea if the waitstaff is salaried or not or if the tips are subsequently pooled. Of course, on land, there is no automatice per diem to cloud the picture.

Some passengers might be inclined to tip or not if they knew, with certainty, how tips are divided.

It is unlikely that any two employees of HAL will respond to questions about their compensation, the same.

We all have different mind sets and financial resources. Some people tip for good service in the Pinnacle and some people will not, regardless of, if and how pooled tips are distributed. And no amount of speculative information is going to change this. We all do what we are comfortable doing.

[SnorkelBear]

Here is the Gratuity Policy from the HAL website.

"Exceptional service is part of the Holland America cruise experience. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. And we have made it easy for you to reward excellent service onboard.
A gratuity of $10 per guest per day for dining and stateroom services will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. We are confident that you will find the service onboard exemplary and, should you wish to make adjustments, you may do so at the end of the cruise by contacting the front desk. A 15% service charge will be automatically added to your bar charges and dining room wine account."


If someone chooses to tip extra for exemplary service, I think that is great. If someone chooses not to tip extra maybe they feel the appropriate tip has been given. Please do not assume they are not "savvy" cruisers, or that anyone in the Pinnacle Grill is getting "stiffed".

[AlohaPride]

Here is the Gratuity Policy from the HAL website.

"Exceptional service is part of the Holland America cruise experience. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. And we have made it easy for you to reward excellent service onboard.
A gratuity of $10 per guest per day for dining and stateroom services will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. We are confident that you will find the service onboard exemplary and, should you wish to make adjustments, you may do so at the end of the cruise by contacting the front desk. A 15% service charge will be automatically added to your bar charges and dining room wine account."


If someone chooses to tip extra for exemplary service, I think that is great. If someone chooses not to tip extra maybe they feel the appropriate tip has been given. Please do not assume they are not "savvy" cruisers, or that anyone in the Pinnacle Grill is getting "stiffed".

Thank you, that's what I was going to say. But yours was written better:p

[sail7seas]

I tend to be a pretty observant person ... and I noticed quite often that people left their service staff NOTHING at the Pinnacle Grill.

Just because you didn't see people tip, does not mean they did not tip.
My DH always tips; he always shakes the stewards hand and thanks him. You would not see what was in his palm. ;) You would not see DH hand the Maitre d' a gratuity if he was standing at the Pinnacle Manager's Stand talkig with him. You would not see him tip the Wine Steward if he handed it to him/her when signing his wine bill.

[Copper10-8]

It has been our experience that the wait staff in the grill has been primarily European. Of the ones that we chatted up, the HAL gig was definitely temporary given the amount of education and experience they had, in other professions. It makes sense that the Indonesian staff might be the future trend as most tend to view HAL as a career rather than stepping stone.

Absolutely right! Most of the eastern European guys and girls we've talked to had extensive prior experience on land as well as (hotel) schooling.


If someone chooses to tip extra for exemplary service, I think that is great. If someone chooses not to tip extra maybe they feel the appropriate tip has been given. Please do not assume they are not "savvy" cruisers, or that anyone in the Pinnacle Grill is getting "stiffed".


Great point!

[sail7seas]

The forerunners to Pinnacle Grills, Odyssey and Marco Polo Restaurants on Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Zaandam and Volendam, were all staffed by Indonesian Stewards. It was Indonesian Stewards who got Pinnacle on the first Vista Ship --Zuiderdam, up and running.

European Stewards were introduced to the alternative restaurants after Zuiderdam had been sailing about a year or so.

[PRINSENDAM]

I usually don't kick anything in for a wine steward tip because I don't use him. I usually just have iced tea and coffee as my beverages in the Pinnacle (and the dining room as well).

Blue skies ...

--rita



Rita,

In the dining room and in Pinnacle the wine steward is usually the one who brings your ice tea. I've seen wine stewards breaking out in a sweat delivering trays of ice tea to tables in the dining room and receive nothing for a tip. Sure, if you are having wine then the 15% covers everything but if it is just tea doesn't he deserve a tip too?

Stephen

[lizf]

On our last Prinsendam cruise, the wine steward never touched the ice tea. I drank wine, DH drank ice tea. The wine steward explained that he/she only brought bar drinks, waiters/assistant waiters brought dining room drinks and food. As a side thought, I never did see any of the waiters or wine stewards sweating. Just my observations.

[dosperegrinos]

Thank you one and all. This is the cruise critic boards at it's best. Sharing information that has been gathered from actual experience. We leave for Rome in ten days and will board the Noordam a day later. This will be our sixth cruise, third with HAL and our first at the Pinnacle. We will now be carrying some "folding money" with us, on that much anticipated night. Thanks again for sharing your info.

[serendipity1499]

On our last Prinsendam cruise, the wine steward never touched the ice tea. I drank wine, DH drank ice tea. The wine steward explained that he/she only brought bar drinks, waiters/assistant waiters brought dining room drinks and food. As a side thought, I never did see any of the waiters or wine stewards sweating. Just my observations.

This is the same experience we had in the Pinnacle on our Prinsendam Cruise which you were on..As a matter of fact there was only two other tables being served in the Grill when we were there (around 7-8:30 p.m.)

Snorklebear I agree with you completely!

Originally Posted by SnorkelBear

If someone chooses to tip extra for exemplary service, I think that is great. If someone chooses not to tip extra maybe they feel the appropriate tip has been given. Please do not assume they are not "savvy" cruisers, or that anyone in the Pinnacle Grill is getting "stiffed".





Rita I believe you are correct..Several years ago, on one of our HAL cruises, I personally questioned the staff at the front desk in the main lobby about tipping in the Pinnacle..They explained to me that the Pinnacle staff shares in the $10.00 per day auto tip..When I asked if was customary to tip extra in the Pinnacle they were noncommittal with the following statement: "It is completely up to each guest if they wish to tip extra or not, but certainly not required" So I never found out if it was customary to tip extra or not!

I believe each guest should decide for themselves if they wish to tip or not & would never be presumptuous & make a judgment about another guest by stating they are "stiffing the staff".:( .It is none of my business..

Happy cruising all:) ..Betty

[lizf]

Betty- As usual, you said it best and you covered it all.

[PRINSENDAM]

On our last Prinsendam cruise, the wine steward never touched the ice tea. I drank wine, DH drank ice tea. The wine steward explained that he/she only brought bar drinks, waiters/assistant waiters brought dining room drinks and food.


This isn't the situation in every case for sure. On STATENDAM earlier this year the wine steward in our area... about six or seven tables... was serving DW and I a bottle of wine each evening and perhaps one or two glasses of wine on the other tables. The rest of it was water and ice tea . ie NO TIP!



As a side thought, I never did see any of the waiters or wine stewards sweating. Just my observations.


Figure of speech! But when the going gets tough.......

Stephen









........................

[Sugarina]

Dear HALers,

Thank you so much for all of your excellent advice in response to my posed question. I have determined from your posts that tipping $10pp. will be appropriate for my husband and me. Of course, if I encounter a surly or brusque waiter I will adjust accordingly; however, from what I have read in other posts, service in the PG is exemplary. :)

Regarding general tipping, I am relieved that HAL will bill $140 automatically to my shipboard account (for my 7 night cruise). And of course, the room service tips of $1 to $5 (based on other threads in CruiseCritic) will be given frequently as I cannot stand to start my day without an immediate cup of hot, fresh brewed coffee......I digress, however! :p

Many thanks again,

B.L.T.

[hammybee]

I believe each guest should decide for themselves if they wish to tip or not & would never be presumptuous & make a judgment about another guest.It is none of my business..

Happy cruising all:) ..Betty

Well said.

[Tricia724]

I think some confusion may result because other cruiselines do include the gratuity in the surcharge. Celebrity, for example, clearly states that the $30 per person charge for their specialty restaurants is for gratuities. Perhaps some people assume that it is the same on HAL.

If the waiters in the Pinnacle only get a share of the $10pp/pd tip, that doesn't seem like it would amount to much. After the lion's share is given to the dining room steward and assistant and the cabin steward, there isn't much left to spread all over the ship to the other service employees.

[bardgal]

First let me say I am an old TGIFRIDAYS waitress (back in the days of stripes and flair - seriously. Stop laughing.) I walk into a restaurant and expect to tip a MINIMUM of 20% of the total bill (including the tax.) From that point on, it's the server's tip to lose, or gain upon. If they blow me away, I leave 25%+. If they are horrid, I still tip - 10% (law says they must claim 8% of their total sales), and speak to a manager.

I have no idea how things work on HAL, but let me share some insider info regarding Princess (pal in the HO):

When I asked this question, the initial response I got was "It's the greatest racket going onboard, and more power to 'em!" Then explained: For all specialty restaurants (such as Sabatini's) - the charge of $25pp is the tip since all your food on board is paid for in your cruise fare.

Basically I was told anywhere* there is a surcharge for food on [most] cruise ships, be it sushi bars, ice cream, coffee bars, Patisserie, etc... the charge is for gratuity, NOT the food. The reason you will rarely get a straightforward answer onboard any of the ships is 90% of Americans tip no matter what, and the staff do not want to take away a good thing from those working in food service.

*The exception is caviar. Those charges are definitely for food.

On Princess, and Carnival, the servers who work in the main dining rooms, and specialty restaurants also work in the Horizon buffet - those that work breakfast/lunch in the dining room, work dinners in the Horizon. Those that work dinners in the dining room, work breakfast/lunch in the Horizon. They are all part of the $10pp per day plan. Also, the extra cash you give your server is pooled since more people than you think opt out of the $10 and do not tip at all. The one thing I don't know is if the $25 from Sabatini's is pooled in the greater ocean of food workers, or if it's only for the servers in that location.

Yes, they all work their glutes off!

For Sabatini's, the charge is $25pp - that is 25% of a $100 meal (food only). If you feel that you should give more - great - do it. If you feel you've eaten more than $100 worth of food (in a fine dining establishment) give more, or if you feel 25% is too much of a tip for that food and you don't feel you've consumed more than $100 worth of food, don't eat there.

Exactly how it works on Pinnacle? No idea.

[twoatsea]

Thanks, Bardgal. That's what I thought - the $20 charge for the Pinnacle is a "service" charge; service=tips. I thought I read that somewhere, but right now as I tell my family, "The office is closed"! ;) That means "right now I am too lazy to look for the info I think I've seen"! Oh well, we all have our faults!

[peaches from georgia]

The only times I ever read that the $20pp PG charge on HAL is a gratuity is from pposters who say they read it or heard it somewhere, but they don't know exactly where or when. Mostly they say they read it from another poster who is nameless and no proof that this is true is ever given by anyone.

To my knowledge no one has ever produced an official statement from HAL that this is true. :)

[dakrewser]

Thanks, Bardgal. That's what I thought - the $20 charge for the Pinnacle is a "service" charge; service=tips. I thought I read that somewhere, but right now as I tell my family, "The office is closed"! ;) That means "right now I am too lazy to look for the info I think I've seen"! Oh well, we all have our faults!

Sorry, no. It's a cover charge, not a service charge.

[hammerinfrank]

this may be a crazy question, and i am aware of the $10 pp per day gratuity charge (unless declined), but does anyone ever leave a tip in the main dining room?

[RuthC]

this may be a crazy question, and i am aware of the $10 pp per day gratuity charge (unless declined), but does anyone ever leave a tip in the main dining room?
There are still people who do give a tip to the table steward and/or assistant steward on the last night. Many include it in an envelope with a thank you note.

Be aware that if you remove or reduce the $10 per person, per day service charge, and then tip in cash, the recipient must turn in that cash gratuity. If you leave the $10 intact they are free to keep whatever extra you give.

[sail7seas]

this may be a crazy question, and i am aware of the $10 pp per day gratuity charge (unless declined), but does anyone ever leave a tip in the main dining room?


Yes.....we always tip our dining (and cabin) stewards additional at the end of every cruise.




Bardgal said:


I have no idea how things work on HAL, but let me share some insider info regarding Princess (pal in the HO):

She clearly stated that she does not know how it works on HAL so to say Pinnacle's per person charge is all tip predicated upon what she wrote, is erroneous. She did not say that.

[Copper10-8]

Yes.....we always tip our dining (and cabin) stewards additional at the end of every cruise.

Ditto

[ekerr19]

We have always tipped extra in the D/R - in my mind the added $10 per person, per day divided up between so many individuals doesn't even begin to cover it - but, that's just us.

Through some 16+ HAL cruises, we've had iced tea delivered by the asst. D/R steward once - usually it is the wine steward who brings it and it used to be that it wasn't as readily available for dining as it is today. ;)

Regardless, tipping is highly personal and there will always be those who think it's "ok" the way it is and those who will always tip more. :)

[hammybee]

Thanks, Bardgal. That's what I thought - the $20 charge for the Pinnacle is a "service" charge; service=tips. I thought I read that somewhere, but right now as I tell my family, "The office is closed"! ;) That means "right now I am too lazy to look for the info I think I've seen"! Oh well, we all have our faults!

Bargal closed by saying she has no idea how it works in the Pinnacle.

[Ziggy7]

OK, just curious, but why do we tip the specialty restaurant staff more than our hard working dinning room waiters ??? If you tip the specialty waiters 10.00 per person for one night, then your extra tip should be 10.00 a night for dinning staff right ??? And why not 10.00 a day for our room stewards ??? they work much harder ???? So why does HAL say 10.00 a day for each person covers them all but bar staff, they get 15% added.

I'm not going to be very popular for this but not all of us are made of money. We rely on the cruise line to tell us what we need to pay for and what is part of the cruise. They clearly state, the gratuties are coverd in the 10.00 a day per person.

I just cant imagine those out there reading this thinking they can not eat in the specialty restaurant because they can not afford to tip the waiters as much as they paid for the meal. Not to mention whether the service was deserving of that tip.

Now before you all crucify me, we tip, we tip for the extra things our cabin steward and dinning waiters do for us. We also tip extra at the end, because we believe they worked hard to make our stay pleasant. But if they didnt do their jobs, they didnt get extra.
Which we have never had happen on a HAL ship, and only one on RCI.

But to us, a tip is to be earned, not just expected :)

[thomasale]

If someone spends a couple of hours making sure my every need is raken care of I will always leanve them a little something. I don't believe anyone working a cruise ship is getting wealthy...I am not saying YOU shourld do it and I couldn't care less if you do...:)

[SueOverend]

We've never tipped at all in the Pinnacle and to be honest the Service we've received in our two visits would not have warranted it anyway. As I understand it from previous threads last year, their tips are covered by the automatic tipping we pay into, so not necessary. If we had fantastic service, I guess we would leave a little something.

It's very hard for us Europeans to understand the U.S. tipping culture. Tips in some countries are not given at all i.e. Iceland and I was therfore quite shocked by the original poster saying that they pay 20 - 30% of their bill on landbased meals. In the UK the most you would ever pay is 15% and it is more likely 10% and then only if the Service has been good. If the service is poor you leave very little. Obviously we tip more when in U.S. restaurants, as the culture is different and I guess the wait staff don't get paid very much, but this thread will certainly make us think.

[Shelli]

I just spoke to my TA, asking her for the definitive answer. She told me that it is, indeed, customary to tip extra in the Pinnacle. The night we'll be eating there, I'll make sure my husband sticks a $10 bill in his pants pocket to have handy for that purpose.

[DD]

This is the same experience we had in the Pinnacle on our Prinsendam Cruise which you were on..As a matter of fact there was only two other tables being served in the Grill when we were there (around 7-8:30 p.m.)

Snorklebear I agree with you completely!

Originally Posted by SnorkelBear

If someone chooses to tip extra for exemplary service, I think that is great. If someone chooses not to tip extra maybe they feel the appropriate tip has been given. Please do not assume they are not "savvy" cruisers, or that anyone in the Pinnacle Grill is getting "stiffed".


Rita I believe you are correct..Several years ago, on one of our HAL cruises, I personally questioned the staff at the front desk in the main lobby about tipping in the Pinnacle..They explained to me that the Pinnacle staff shares in the $10.00 per day auto tip..When I asked if was customary to tip extra in the Pinnacle they were noncommittal with the following statement: "It is completely up to each guest if they wish to tip extra or not, but certainly not required" So I never found out if it was customary to tip extra or not!

I believe each guest should decide for themselves if they wish to tip or not & would never be presumptuous & make a judgment about another guest by stating they are "stiffing the staff".:( .It is none of my business..

Happy cruising all:) ..Betty

You will never get any more of a straight answer out of them. As a TA, I've raised this question numerous times with HAL staff at functions. I've asked over and over again what the norm is for tipping in the Pinnacle Grill as I get this question all the time from clients. I could not get anything out of them other than, "Tipping is an individual thing." Believe me, I tried the question from every vantage point I could -- no dice.

[kryos]

In the dining room and in Pinnacle the wine steward is usually the one who brings your ice tea. I've seen wine stewards breaking out in a sweat delivering trays of ice tea to tables in the dining room and receive nothing for a tip. Sure, if you are having wine then the 15% covers everything but if it is just tea doesn't he deserve a tip too?

When the wine steward came to the table ... to take drink orders, I attempted to order an iced tea from him. He told me that I'd have to ask my waiter to get me that. He only handled things coming from the bar ... such as wine, liquor or sodas. Apparently iced tea, coffee, etc. come from the kitchen. I dined at the Pinnacle four times on my last cruise, and on every one of them, the regular waiter brought my iced tea and later coffee.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Rita I believe you are correct..Several years ago, on one of our HAL cruises, I personally questioned the staff at the front desk in the main lobby about tipping in the Pinnacle..They explained to me that the Pinnacle staff shares in the $10.00 per day auto tip..When I asked if was customary to tip extra in the Pinnacle they were noncommittal with the following statement: "It is completely up to each guest if they wish to tip extra or not, but certainly not required" So I never found out if it was customary to tip extra or not!

Exactly. Everyone should tip (or not tip) as they see fit. I'm only saying that common sense would dictate that the Pinnacle Grill staff get something, whether that something is from the auto-tip or from the $20 Pinnacle surcharge, because otherwise who in their right mind would want to work there? I'm sorry, but I've seen loads of people tip zilch in the Pinnacle. Their feeling is that they paid an extra $20 to dine there and that should cover the tip. I've eaten with people in the Pinnacle who have said they see no need to tip, and in fact, did not have any cash on them to tip if they wanted to.

When I dined there with a group on my last HAL cruise ... two tables full of singles and solos ... only three people at my table for eight chose to drop a $10 bill for the server. The others all politely declined. I honestly don't know what the other table did, but would imagine about the same.

I wish HAL would clarify this issue ... for the peace of mind of all concerned. But, I for one, have no doubt that HAL works like other cruise lines ... and that some of that surcharge you are paying is going right into the pocket of your server ... as it should be.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[gizmo]

I wish HAL would clarify this issue ... for the peace of mind of all concerned. But, I for one, have no doubt that HAL works like other cruise lines ... and that some of that surcharge you are paying is going right into the pocket of your server ... as it should be.
--rita

I honestly don't know how it works with Hal, but other cruise lines are very clear about this. The $ charge is the tip.

[kryos]

I honestly don't know how it works with Hal, but other cruise lines are very clear about this. The $ charge is the tip.
That's exactly what I was told on Princess. If you eat in the specialty restaurants with the surcharges, a portion of that surcharge is the tip. I can't imagine why the same wouldn't apply at HAL's Pinnacle Grill.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[sail7seas]

You will never get any more of a straight answer out of them. As a TA, I've raised this question numerous times with HAL staff at functions. I've asked over and over again what the norm is for tipping in the Pinnacle Grill as I get this question all the time from clients. I could not get anything out of them other than, "Tipping is an individual thing." Believe me, I tried the question from every vantage point I could -- no dice.


Just my opinion, but that is the proper opinion.

That is what they should be responding.

Tipping is an individual thing no matter where/what culture/what sort of situation.

JMHO......


(My only gripe, if you will, is that because someone else does not choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose to tip feel

[dakrewser]

OK, just curious, but why do we tip the specialty restaurant staff more than our hard working dinning room waiters ???

For the same reason I generally tip more at Spago then I do at the Olive Garden - it's a better experience. Not that there's anything wrong with the DR experience (usually) just that (usually) the PG experience is that much better.

And, no, I don't want the cruise line telling me what's "appropriate" to tip - they've no idea what I consider an appropriate tip nor do they know what sort of service I'll receive (or expect) at any given time.

Tips should never be considered "required" and should always be given as reward for extra effort. And withheld when appropriate.

[FLACRUISER99]

(My only gripe, if you will, is that because someone else does not choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose to tip feel And if others choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose not to tip feel the have to. I checked the HAL Web site and did not see anything about the Pinnacle Grill

http://www.hollandamerica.com/guests/category.do?category=money&topic=gratuity

Planning & Advice:
Money Matters

Gratuity Policy

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. Gratuities are the customary means of recognizing and showing appreciation for good service. To save guests the need to locate crewmembers and determine the appropriate gratuity amount, a gratuity of $10 per day is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account on a daily basis. If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of the cruise. All gratuities are paid to the crew and represent an important part of their compensation. A 15% service charge is automatically added to bar charges and dining room wine purchases.
In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

[gizmo]

Originally Posted by Ziggy7
OK, just curious, but why do we tip the specialty restaurant staff more than our hard working dinning room waiters



For the same reason I generally tip more at Spago then I do at the Olive Garden - it's a better experience. Not that there's anything wrong with the DR experience (usually) just that (usually) the PG experience is that much better.


I have only eaten in the Pinnacle once. I did not find the service any better than the dining room, in fact the service in the dining room was much better. I did not find the experience any better either. What was better, was having additional people at our table.

Ziggy has a good point.

[ekerr19]

I agree with ziggy's point to a degree, however I agree with dave's too, probably more so.

Some of us have had experiences that have warranted the extra tip, some haven't - so what? It's a personal thing - if you choose not to tip, nobody is going to make you feel "less than" because of it. I just refuse to feel bad because I choose to leave a decent tip when the experience warrants - simple as that.

People frequently ask the question - "should we tip, is it included, is it expected?" ... I think most people appreciate being told that many people do tip, and they also have the option of doing so, but it's not engraved in stone or anything.

The whole issue with Americans tipping so much is because most of the waitstaff in this country make so much less than their counterparts in other countries - we had this discussion in Italy with an American young woman and her Italian boyfriend at a trattoria we visited - the Italian young man explained that the waitstaff make much more than those here in the U.S. and don't expect more than 10% (if that) and that they don't understand why Americans are so willing to throw money away.

[Copper10-8]

And if others choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose not to tip feel the have to. I checked the HAL Web site and did not see anything about the Pinnacle Grill

http://www.hollandamerica.com/guests/category.do?category=money&topic=gratuity

Planning & Advice:
Money Matters

Gratuity Policy

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. Gratuities are the customary means of recognizing and showing appreciation for good service. To save guests the need to locate crewmembers and determine the appropriate gratuity amount, a gratuity of $10 per day is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account on a daily basis. If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of the cruise. All gratuities are paid to the crew and represent an important part of their compensation. A 15% service charge is automatically added to bar charges and dining room wine purchases.
In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

You're right and that goes both ways on the issue! It's been said already! "Tipping is a personal decision" If you want to do it, do it, if you don't, don't. Nobody should be "forced";) either way especially since no one seems to know specifically what happens to the $40 ($20pp). Don't worry, be happy!

[hammybee]

You're right and that goes both ways on the issue! It's been said already! "Tipping is a personal decision" If you want to do it, do it, if you don't, don't. Nobody should be "forced";) either way especially since no one seems to know specifically what happens to the $40 ($20pp). Don't worry, be happy!

If we tipped people with bathrobes in the Lido, do you think they would go away?

[bardgal]

For the same reason I generally tip more at Spago then I do at the Olive Garden - it's a better experience.

(ok, I'm only getting my ex-waitress hackles up a teeny bit. ;) ) Does that mean you only give the servers at Olive Garden 15%, but at Spago you leave 20%? Just curious.

For me, the venue itself has no baring on the service (but like I said, that's just me..) I've had horrid service at some high-end eateries such as Emeril's Seafood at the MGM, and fantastic service at places like El Torito. (I'm just sayin'.) Granted, the three BEST PLACES EVER a far as service goes have been Bella Vista at Las Brisas in Acapulco, Il Pasetto in London, and Emeril's Delmonico Steak House at The Venetian. Yes, two of those have been high-end dining, and one a tiny Italian joint by the British Musuem (which I think has closed... so sad.)

But this brings up another question for those of you who tip at the PG:

On what do you base the amount you leave? Do you estimate the dollar amount on what you've eaten (what you'd pay at say Spago's for the same items...) then leave 15%-25% (or more) of that? Or is it a flat-rate per person sitting at the table? Or is it a flat-rate per server?

All I can find on the HAL website is on the Cruise Cuisine Fact Sheet, which says, "guests pay a modest surcharge of $20 per person for dinner, and $10 for lunch." It makes no reference to what the surcharge is for.

I can totally understand all this confusion.

[kryos]

I have only eaten in the Pinnacle once. I did not find the service any better than the dining room, in fact the service in the dining room was much better. I did not find the experience any better either. What was better, was having additional people at our table.

Same here. In fact, I found the service a bit slower in the Pinnacle, but maybe that's by intent ... to force you to enjoy a leisurely meal without rushing through it?

The reason I eat in the Pinnacle is not for the service, but rather for the food. Can't beat the food there ... well worth the extra $20 per person in my opinion.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[sail7seas]

Jtutak wrote:

Originally Posted by jtutak
And if others choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose not to tip feel the have to. I checked the HAL Web site and did not see anything about the Pinnacle Grill



Originally Posted by sail7seas
(My only gripe, if you will, is that because someone else does not choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose to tip feel

And if others choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose not to tip feel the have to. I checked the HAL Web site and did not see anything about the Pinnacle Grill



I specifically said.......it is up to each person in each situation.

I never said what I do is what you or anyone else should do.

In the interest of fairness, if you are going to quote me, please print all pertinent parts of the quote.

Here is what I wrote:


Just my opinion, but that is the proper opinion.

That is what they should be responding.

Tipping is an individual thing no matter where/what culture/what sort of situation.

JMHO......


(My only gripe, if you will, is that because someone else does not choose to tip, they should not IMO make others who choose to tip feel
__________________

[happy cruzer]

We've never tipped at all in the Pinnacle and to be honest the Service we've received in our two visits would not have warranted it anyway. As I understand it from previous threads last year, their tips are covered by the automatic tipping we pay into, so not necessary. If we had fantastic service, I guess we would leave a little something.

It's very hard for us Europeans to understand the U.S. tipping culture. Tips in some countries are not given at all i.e. Iceland and I was therfore quite shocked by the original poster saying that they pay 20 - 30% of their bill on landbased meals. In the UK the most you would ever pay is 15% and it is more likely 10% and then only if the Service has been good. If the service is poor you leave very little. Obviously we tip more when in U.S. restaurants, as the culture is different and I guess the wait staff don't get paid very much, but this thread will certainly make us think.

Thanks for even trying to figure this one out. People in the US do not all agree on tipping so this will be discussed forever. The euorpean way of a clear service charge on the bill whether upfront in the fare of the cruise or a daily charge would be much easier to understand. And I think that is what the $10 per person per day is meant to be. And I think each employee that signs on with HAL understands the policy and how much of the tip pool they will get based on where they work and what they do. They may never admit this so as to get a little more but that's ok. So I will only tip extra when I request something special or when I see exceptional service. And I do work in the service industry in the US but if I were to sign on to a ship with HAL's policies I would OK with receiving my share of the pool. my two cents.

[bardgal]

If we tipped people with bathrobes in the Lido, do you think they would go away?

ahmahgawd that's hilarious!

......the Italian young man explained that the waitstaff make much more than those here in the U.S. and don't expect more than 10% (if that) and that they don't understand why Americans are so willing to throw money away.

What is sad is how underpaid servers are in this country. Many states are allowed to pay LESS THAN minimum wage to any job that receives gratuities, (thankfully I waited tables here in CA where that's not the case), because the tips subsidize their hourly wage. It's criminal. As a TGIFridays employee, we could get a Friday's Passport (if you were rated high enough) and travel the country while picking up shifts in any Fridays.... I went to visit my sister one year in KC, MO and picked up a few shifts (met hubby #2 there as well.. I collect them;) ) and was lucky to get 10% most of the time while I was used to getting 20%-25% here. And when they'd leave 10%, they make a big fuss of what a great waitress I was and how sorry they were I was going back to CA. 10% was normal there. The day I got $12 on a $60 dollar tab every other server in the store came over to me aghast, "they left TWELVE DOLLARS!!!" I had to explain, that was normal in CA. (Of course the people who left that were in from out of town on business.) That was back in '87, so hopefully things are better there now.

Many people don't understand that servers tip out more than one person as well from the tips they receive from you. I tipped out my busser, and my service bartender 10% of the tips I got every shift (not a % of bar sales I made - it usually evened out in the end, but many times I'd sell zero alcohol during a lunch shift and still tip out my service bartender 10% of what I got. If I was one of the first wave to be sent home after the lunch rush I might have only had 4 tables of people ordering dinner salads and water, leaving next to nothing because the bill was so low. I would sometimes not have enough money to get my car out of the parking lot after tipping out. ah college...) But places like Chart House tip out a cast of thousands! Door host, food runner, expo station, oyster bar, bartender, busser, and one more I'm forgetting.....

So many people think that waiting tables is a mindless job for people with little education. Waiting tables - well - is an art. Which is why it's looked upon much differently (and paid accordingly) elsewhere. I know in French Polynesia many people will be highly offended if you try to tip them.

Personally, I think everyone should work as a server once in their life - just so they get it, and not bitch out the waiter when the kitchen gets something wrong (as if the waiter were not only serving the food, but slaughtering the cow, cutting the beef, and cooking their food as well.)

[twoatsea]

Sail7seas posted - She clearly stated that she does not know how it works on HAL so to say Pinnacle's per person charge is all tip predicated upon what she wrote, is erroneous. She did not say that.

twoatsea posted -
Thanks, Bardgal. That's what I thought - the $20 charge for the Pinnacle is a "service" charge; service=tips. I thought I read that somewhere, but right now as I tell my family, "The office is closed"! That means "right now I am too lazy to look for the info I think I've seen"! Oh well, we all have our faults!

Sail7seas posted - In the interest of fairness, if you are going to quote me, please print all pertinent parts of the quote.

Ditto for me, Sail7seas, if you were quoting me?? - I did not say that Bardgal - "so to say Pinnacle's per person charge is all tip predicated upon what she wrote, is erroneous".I simply thanked her for a "point" that I thought was good, which also reminded me of "something" I "thought" I read "somewhere". I did not take this thread as brain surgery, so I guess I didn't realize posts would be so closely scrutinized!:eek: Obviously for some people this is a very touchy subject. However, although I did place a period after Bardgal, instead of a comma, I guess I should have started a new paragraph! But, in my post I made a point to use the words "thought", "think", in other words, as you so often use, IMO - not fact. Definitely, not "Pinnacle's per person charge is all tip predicated". Oh well...as I ended before, "we all have out faults!" So I can goodheartedly be erroneous, even when I am not. :D

[elmorejj]

Bardgirl, as a waitress in a far distant past life, I couldn`t agree more with all of your post, very well said.........jean:cool:

[SnorkelBear]

Debate will never solve this one. So I offer my somewhat educated opinion. A cruise ship is a very equal workplace. If you eat in the crew mess, you are not making a lot more than the person sitting next to you. If you make more, you are eating in the staff mess. I would be willing to bet a cover charge at the Pinnacle Grill that all cash tips go into the tip pool for all servers. All the servers are taken care of. No one is stiffed. For people that tip extra for good service, I encourage it. You are helping people working very hard to earn a better lot in life for themselves and their families. For people on a budget and just feel lucky to cruise, don't think it is compulsory to tip extra. If you can, do. If you can't, you should still be able to enjoy the alternative dining without feeling bad. Vacation is about feeling good. Please do not feel you are stiffing anyone if you do not tip extra. Sometimes the best gratuity a server gets is just a table of kind, caring and considerate people. Just be kind to everyone on the ship, and tip everyone what you feel is appropriate. Everybody works hard. Including passengers.

[twoatsea]

I feel the question to HAL is not "how much tip is customary", because that will always result in the canned answer. But the question is "How much of the $20/$10 do the servers/staff receive"? A direct answer will allow the diner to know whether they are beginning at $0 or $20/$10 & therefore, tip as they feel appropriate based on factual info.

Also, I don't understand how anyone can make anyone else feel badly about how they dress, how much they tip, etc. If one is doing as one feels he/she should do, then one can feel good about his/herself.

Re: PG tipping - DH & I have dined there twice; we left a tip twice; we received poor service & food twice! I just wish we could get a meal there that would warrant a tip! I know, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!!! At least the second time was a freebie, as well as any future times must be. (Just to satisfy the doubtful, I'll give details below - others can move on.:D )

1. same beef cut ordered "medium" by several at same table at same time - received the range of medium rare to medium well. (both times)
2. medium ordered steak received medium rare & returned. same steak recooked :eek: which = shoe leather. (2nd time, smart enough not to send back - ate around the too rare parts & left the rest)
3. glasses not refilled; couples drinking out of each other glasses (twice)
4. food left & no followup as to how food was; anything needed (twice)
5. 2nd time, no chocolates brought
6. everyone's asparagus too "hard" to eat - not "crisp", but "hard" (2nd time)
7. choc. volcano was a dry cooked thru uniced cake, not "flowing"

Sadly, the 2nd time was on DH & I rec. to new HAL cruisers who looked at us like we didn't get out of the house much!

And No, we didn't say anything. We do not find it necessary to train any restaurant staff. We say it with our money. There are so many choices in the world.

[zorbaj]

I think we all need to remember that many of the Indonesian and Flippino servers sign on for one year. That means they work 365 days in a row without a single day off. They don't see their family for over a year but they take care of every little concern of their customers. They don't get rich at this. They do improve the standard of living of their family but at a huge cost to a normal family life. So stiff them if you must but do not look for justification from me. But in any case they will keep on similing.:D

[happy cruzer]

I think we all need to remember that many of the Indonesian and Flippino servers sign on for one year. That means they work 365 days in a row without a single day off. They don't see their family for over a year but they take care of every little concern of their customers. They don't get rich at this. They do improve the standard of living of their family but at a huge cost to a normal family life. So stiff them if you must but do not look for justification from me. But in any case they will keep on similing.:D

I don't think the point of the discussion is stiffing anyone (I think stiffing means a $0 tip). We are discussing how much to tip. I did not read any suggestions for a $0. so I do the recommended amount by HAL plus whatever I feel at the time. How much to tip at the PG? that's the point of the discussion. You point about how hard the crew works is valid put did not answer the original question.

SnorkelBear thank you for this inside information!!!! It helps alot to understand that the pooling of tips is a fact.

[Shelli]

What is sad is how underpaid servers are in this country. Many states are allowed to pay LESS THAN minimum wage to any job that receives gratuities


Yes, they certainly *are* underpaid! I got quite an education when my daughter worked at Bennigan's while attending college. Not that long ago (I don't know if it has changed by now), servers made around $2 an hour. That's right-- $2! It was assumed they'd make most of their income from tips. My daughter became a bit of an expert in "reading" folks and figuring the sort of tips they'd leave. Senior citizens tended to be the worst (and still might be-- my husband's uncle thinks that leaving a dollar, no matter what the bill, is plenty), and southerners never left more than about 10%, as you mentioned. And men traditionally tipped better than women... but maybe the fact that she was a pretty young girl had something to do with that! :)

[twoatsea]

Thanks for the chuckle, Shelli. However, we are seniors & not the norm. My husband will pick up pennies & is known for his tightness. He HATES the tipping system; would love for it to be included in the menu price & then it would not bother him at all. I have a tendency to, as he says, "give our hard earned money away!" So, in our case she would have been wrong, but she would have gotten a healthy tip, because as I always say to my husband, "What's mine is mine; what's yours is mine!" So I do the tipping!

But she is correct, as far as my experience, about some senior citizens. Often, I leave extra money for our "tight" friends! On the sly of course, not to insult them. However, I think the difference is in where our senior friends eat. Those accustomed to fine dining, accept tipping standards; those eating at lower cost restaurants, don't - except DH, of course - he just hates tipping - but that's OK because he is such a sweetie!

[bardgal]

I don't think the point of the discussion is stiffing anyone (I think stiffing means a $0 tip). We are discussing how much to tip...... How much to tip at the PG? that's the point of the discussion.

Which brings me back to my question:

Those of you who tip at the PG:

On what do you base the amount you leave? Do you estimate the dollar amount on what you've eaten (what you'd pay at say Spago's for the same items...) then leave 15%-25% (or more) of that? Or is it a flat-rate per person sitting at the table? Or is it a flat-rate per server?

[Copper10-8]

If we tipped people with bathrobes in the Lido, do you think they would go away?

I don';t see why not if you make it worth their while;) - now man boobs:eek: is another story altogether

And men traditionally tipped better than women... but maybe the fact that she was a pretty young girl had something to do with that!

Got that one right!:D

[twoatsea]

Bardgal - you have a well thought question that deserves a well thought answer. Sorry, my answer is totally irrational, but here it is!

1. First visit - bad food, bad service - left $5. Why - I just can't get myself to leave nothing; I didn't think anything was deserved. How's that for rational thinking??:confused:

2. Second visit - bad food, bad service - left $10. Why - see above, plus we were with 3 other couples - yuppies, early 50's, well-healed, well-traveled, very accustomed to spending lots of money (Dear 12 year younger Brother included) & they could not feel comfortable with less than $10 - even though they agreed with the bad service, bad food. Didn't matter to me, DH & I won't miss the $10, & I always feel sorry for servers unless they are surly, so I went along. How's that for an answer.

My DH still complains about that $10!! :D He's such a riot! :p But he hates getting stiffed with a bad meal & bad service - & this one was free! Go figure! Good thing he is fun to have around! :D

[hammybee]

I don';t see why not if you make it worth their while;) - now man boobs:eek: is another story altogether

I knew when I asked the question that your were going to give me my "MB" fix for August. Thank you:)

[serendipity1499]

I think we all need to remember that many of the Indonesian and Flippino servers sign on for one year. That means they work 365 days in a row without a single day off. They don't see their family for over a year but they take care of every little concern of their customers. They don't get rich at this. They do improve the standard of living of their family but at a huge cost to a normal family life. So stiff them if you must but do not look for justification from me. But in any case they will keep on similing.:D

I don't believe that most of HAL's Servers sign on for a year..We've had many servers who have signed on for 9-10 months & are off for 2 to 3 moonths..Yes they work extremely hard & put in long hours, but this is their chosen life in order to better themselves & their families in their own country..Most can't possibly make the money at home as they do on board..And they are given time off in ports..

I honestly believe, Tipping is a Personal choice! IMO, The statement "So stiff them if you must but do not look for justification from me. But in any case they will keep on similing." is presumptuous & judgemental..It's no one's business if I choose to tip extra or not!

On Cruise Critic there is an article by Joyce-Gleason Adamis entitled "Under the Captains Table-Gratuities--What's the Point." She has spent much of the last 25 years on board ships & is the wife of a Celebrity Capt.. http://www.cruisecritic.com/features/articles.cfm?ID=261

To quote one section of her article:

"One of the biggest misconceptions -- and quite possibly this is what leads to folks' reluctance to tip -- is that cruise passengers are shouldering the paychecks for crew members. But I suggest you don't listen to all the stories of such poverty-stricken crew members with low salaries and terrible lives. When tipping, you are not paying for every crew member on board the ship. Each position on the ship is paid according to the industry rates for that position. So, for instance, a waiter can earn between $2,000 and $3,200 per month (while a busboy will pull in $1,200 - $1,800). A cabin steward's monthly salary is anywhere between $1,600 and $2,600. A massage therapist will rake in $2,000 - $3,000. (Note: As an FYI, average salaries for cruise staffers who don't earn tips include $3,000 - $7,000 for a cruise director and $1,500 - $2,200 for a social hostess).

For those who come from under-developed countries, as do the great majority of crew members who work as waiters or cabin stewards, what they earn on the ships is far better than that which they could earn at home. In their countries, good-quality positions are numbered and rare; they seek work outside to provide for their families.

It is important to understand that jobs on board parallel jobs on land. Most have the goal to create a foundation that they can parlay into a career or business back home. I know several cruise staffers who have succeeded in opening their own restaurants, convenience stores, tailor shops, Amway distribution businesses, children's day care centers and more. Yet others have made it a full career on board: paid for their kids' and grandkids' education, and only later to retire with their kids already having moved on with life. "

Happy cruising everyone...Betty

[Copper10-8]

I knew when I asked the question that your were going to give me my "MB" fix for August. Thank you:)

Anytime! Just whistle!;)

[bardgal]

Shelli, the hourly rate in those states when I was waiting tables, was $2.10.

Those accustomed to fine dining, accept tipping standards; those eating at lower cost restaurants, don't.....
And this makes me very sad because I know it's true. The people, let's say working at a Denny's, work a kajillion times harder than the Spago servers since they usually do all their own food running, refilling of coffee, etc... and the total bill for say two Meat Loaf dinners is.. what... $12 maybe? Even if you left 20% of $12, that's a whopping $2.40. woooo.

While at Spago:
Appetizer:
MARINATED JAPANESE HAMACHI & TUNA SASHIMI = $21
Main Course:
PAN-ROASTED ORGANIC CHICKEN WITH OREGON MOREL MUSHROOMS = $29
LINE CAUGHT WILD STRIPED BASS = $30
(for the sake of argument, let's skip dessert since that menu is not on their website)
Total (before tax): $80
Add bottle of wine: $35 (I'm guessing because their wine list is not posted either - though I don't know if they have anything that inexpensive.)
Total for two: $115. 20% = $23

twoatsea: Thanks for your answer!

And back to my question:

On what do you base the amount you leave? Do you estimate the dollar amount on what you've eaten (what you'd pay at say Spago's for the same items...) then leave 15%-25% (or more) of that? Or is it a flat-rate per person sitting at the table? Or is it a flat-rate per server?

[AlohaPride]

To quote one section of her article:

"One of the biggest misconceptions -- and quite possibly this is what leads to folks' reluctance to tip -- is that cruise passengers are shouldering the paychecks for crew members. But I suggest you don't listen to all the stories of such poverty-stricken crew members with low salaries and terrible lives. When tipping, you are not paying for every crew member on board the ship. Each position on the ship is paid according to the industry rates for that position. So, for instance, a waiter can earn between $2,000 and $3,200 per month (while a busboy will pull in $1,200 - $1,800). A cabin steward's monthly salary is anywhere between $1,600 and $2,600. A massage therapist will rake in $2,000 - $3,000. (Note: As an FYI, average salaries for cruise staffers who don't earn tips include $3,000 - $7,000 for a cruise director and $1,500 - $2,200 for a social hostess).


Happy cruising everyone...Betty

:eek: I need to work for a cruise line as they make more in a month than I do...well, some of them do! Does anyone know if room and board is taken out of the pay checks? Oh, wait! Don't answer that question...it will just open Pandora's Box :D

[dakrewser]

(ok, I'm only getting my ex-waitress hackles up a teeny bit. ;) ) Does that mean you only give the servers at Olive Garden 15%, but at Spago you leave 20%? Just curious.

I didn't say I offered a different percentage, but a different tip. It might range between 5% and 25% of the tab depending on how the service went.

For me, the venue itself has no baring on the service (but like I said, that's just me..) I've had horrid service at some high-end eateries such as Emeril's Seafood at the MGM, and fantastic service at places like El Torito.

Right. It's the expectation you have of the venue that matters. I don't expect the waitress at the Waffle Shop to handle things the same way my favorite waiter at Farallon does. But when they exceed my expectations then the tip goes up. When they don't meet my expectations, it goes down.

On what do you base the amount you leave? Do you estimate the dollar amount on what you've eaten (what you'd pay at say Spago's for the same items...) then leave 15%-25% (or more) of that? Or is it a flat-rate per person sitting at the table? Or is it a flat-rate per server?

I can only speak for myself. For the PG I start at $10. If the service is very good it goes up, if it's not it goes down.

[hammybee]

[QUOTE=bardgalAnd back to my question:

On what do you base the amount you leave? Do you estimate the dollar amount on what you've eaten (what you'd pay at say Spago's for the same items...) then leave 15%-25% (or more) of that? Or is it a flat-rate per person sitting at the table? Or is it a flat-rate per server?[/QUOTE]

As a daughter of a cab driver, I grew up understanding the value of service and reward and the ongoing ability to pay the bills was dependent upon it. Cab drivers, like truck drivers, eat out a lot. My father used to tell me that when I was having a bad day or a pity party to "stop in at a coffee shop and have a coke or whatever. And when it comes time to depart, leave the waitress $5-10. ( and this was 35 years ago) The look on her face will make all your insignificant problems go away." And he was right.

I know that I have been more fortunate than most of the crew to have been born in a place where there is more opportunity. I do not base my tip to the Pinnacle waitstaff on any sort of value of the food or experience. Rather, I tip for good service based upon what I can afford and am comfortable with. And to tell you the truth, I have never noticed what other people left or not. It's none of my beeswax.

[Ziggy7]

For those who feel they are over worked and underpaid, why not make your own bed, get your own clean towels and perhaps ask your steward to sit in your chair and watch TV while you help out this over worked person and vaccume your own cabin???? Or bus your own table. Wouldnt that be just as valuable to this over worked person ??? My point is, if they are that overworked, money will not buy them extra sleep or days off!

Tipping bad service only encourages bad service and ultimately hurts those who work hard and take pride in giving good service.

I tip according to service, if they are good they are tipped well, if they are poor, they get nothing, no matter how much the food costs, or how fancy the resturant is, I tip the same, its the level of service I tip. Perhaps if they really want that tip, they will try harder next time.

And before you all set me on fire, I used to waitress, and I earned my tips! Yes some I worked my behind off to serve and they never left a tip, but the majority left tips.

serendipity1499, very well said. I too have been told by one of our cabin stewards whom we still keep intouch by email with, HAL pays a good base pay, and the tips help also. I dont know about other cruise lines.

[kryos]

Right. It's the expectation you have of the venue that matters. I don't expect the waitress at the Waffle Shop to handle things the same way my favorite waiter at Farallon does.
Why?

I expect the same level of service no matter where I go. There is no reason that waitress in the waffle shop shouldn't be nearby when I want another cup of coffee or some more butter for my waffles. Just like the fancy restaurant ... I expect my waitperson to be reasonably available when I have a request ... I expect them to promptly retrieve my food from the kitchen so that it arrives at the table hot ... I expect them to be pleasant ... and I expect them to get my order correct ... no matter what the venue. Where the tip I choose to leave differs is only in the dollar amount, based upon the total amount of my bill. But the percentage I leave depends upon only one thing ... regardless of where I am enjoying my meal ... and that is the service. I've actually left more at the waffle house than at the fancy restaurant where I may have gotten really lousy service.

I think tips stands for To Insure Prompt Service, right? If I have to wait a long time to get my food ... longer than would seem reasonable based on how others at tables around me are being served ... if I have to ask another wait person to go and find my waitress because I want another cup of coffee and can't locate her ... if I get food that is chilled because it sat in the kitchen too long before my waitperson retrieved it ... or if my order is screwed up and now I have to wait for it to be redone while others at my table are eating ... then I do not feel I got the service I should have, and my tip reflects that.

There have been times I've left a more than generous tip, but there have been other times where I've walked out leaving nothing. It all depends on the service. The venue, at least to me, is irrelevant.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Senior citizens tended to be the worst (and still might be-- my husband's uncle thinks that leaving a dollar, no matter what the bill, is plenty),
This is soooooo true. My 92 year old dad lives with me. Twice a week, I take him out to dinner ... once at a "family type" restaurant ... Red Lobster, Steak & Ale, etc. ... and once at the local diner. Dad gets livid when I leave what he would consider an overly generous tip ... even if that's just 15% of the bill. "Leave a dollar apiece ... that's plenty!" he'll say. "If she gets a dollar from everyone in this place, she'll be doing better than you do!" he adds.

Of course, I don't think it's necessarily being cheap ... it's just that a lot of these older folks grew up during the depression and they remember what it was like not to have two cents to rub together. So they get upset when they see someone "throwing good money around," as my father calls it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[SueOverend]

:eek: I need to work for a cruise line as they make more in a month than I do...well, some of them do! Does anyone know if room and board is taken out of the pay checks? Oh, wait! Don't answer that question...it will just open Pandora's Box :D

I agree - in the UK that is a good wage and not an awful lot dissimilar to what I earn as a PA (and I'm paid well for what I do). Mind you, I wouldn't want to be away from my family for all that time, but it must make a huge difference to their lives. That money would go a long way in their country, particularly if they don't have to pay out for their living expenses.

[Sea King]

Tipping should still be a personal choice. If the service is good, the waiter should be properly recognized. Same for the wine steward.

For most, Pinnacle is a 1 time experience on any cruise. If your waiter and wine steward have provided satisfactory service, they should be tipped. How much? That's for each person to decide.

My guidelines: average service: $10.00 for each. Good to very good: $15.00 - $20.00 for each.

Since I don't take the automatic tipping off my bill, I hope the money goes directly to the server. However, I'm not positive.

Does anyone know if the waiter/steward keeps the tips or is required to pool?

Since 15% is added to the wine will, I'm pretty sure that amount gets pooled and the server automatically keeps the tip. For the waiter, I'm not sure.

IMO the level of service in Pinnacle has improved since the Indonesians returned to work with the European staff. As everyone knows, severe down turn for a while after the Indonesian staff was replaced entirely by Europeans.

[happy cruzer]

Hi Sea King, your question is a little off topic but it does deserve an answer because it is at the core of all tipping discussions:

Does anyone know if the waiter/steward keeps the tips or is required to pool?

I have read many times that the tips are indeed pooled and them distributed out to staff on a strict per centage basis. These tips include the autotip and cash tips (cash is turned in to the supervisor to be in the pool, the employee that turns in cash gets extra rewards with time off or promotions and the like). The item I can't remember is the 15% on beverage service; it probably goes into the same pool or another pool for bar crew?

If I am wrong, I'd really like to know.

Now back to- How much to tip in the PG?

[bardgal]

dakrewser: Thanks so much for your answer. So the $10 you leave is a flat rate (is that $10 for two of you, or pp, and is that $10 to be split by the waiter and assistant? - sorry, just trying to get clarification.) Or is it based on something else like $10 is 50% of the surcharge, or $10 + the $20 surcharge = $30 so it's a 20% tip on what would be a $150 meal? or $10+$40 (for two)=$50 therefore 20% of a $250 meal for two? (I'm just trying to understand where you came up with $10.)

Everyone:
If you ever leave less than 8% you are taking money out of their pocket. They MUST claim 8% of sales (tracked) to the IRS, and 100% of all credit card tips (tracked.) If a server is horrid, speak to a manger. Don't be afraid of the confrontation, management needs to know.

As for long-time food, 99% of the time it's the kitchen, not your server. However, your server should be aware and be the one who alerts YOU it's going long-time and that they're aware of it, perhaps get a manager over to comp some drinks or a dessert, not the other way around (however when a restaurant is slammed the notion of "time" takes on a whole new meaning...)

RULE #1: Don't whine about long-time food when you order something like a well done burger or steak - it's a long time item. Seriously, I used to have people come in and say, "we have 30 min to make a movie.. I'll have a burger, well done." My reply was always, "no, you won't if you want to make your movie." then I'd list items I could get to fly out of the kitchen, a well done burger being the farthest thing off that list.

Now if you well done steak comes out not only well done and cold, speak to a manager!

:D

edited because I'm retarded, and it's early out here in CA.

[Copper10-8]

Bardgal, you give out some very good info from an insider's standpoint (and you're funny too). Keep it up please!:)

[happy cruzer]

I don't think your info is correct for people who do not file US taxes. And it is not accurate for all businesses in the US. Some do not track tips at all; it's left up to the employees to do. and yes the employee better report a reasonable number but according to my accountant that can vary.

But your point is well taken, we should pay attention to how much we tip to be fair.:)

[dakrewser]

Why?

I expect the same level of service no matter where I go. There is no reason that waitress in the waffle shop shouldn't be nearby when I want another cup of coffee or some more butter for my waffles. Just like the fancy restaurant ... I expect my waitperson to be reasonably available when I have a request

The difference is that I expect to not have to ask the professional waitperson in the better restaurant. He/she will anticipate my need, perhaps even before I'm aware of it. I don't presume that the counter staff at the Waffle Shop, or the lovely lady at Denny's, will do the same. Not that I'm denigrating the efforts of the "blue haired brigade" - they are usually quite competent, and almost always meet or exceed my expectations. Unlike, say, the average waitron at Chili's or TGIFridays, for example.

[Copper10-8]

The difference is that I expect to not have to ask the professional waitperson in the better restaurant. He/she will anticipate my need, perhaps even before I'm aware of it. I don't presume that the counter staff at the Waffle Shop, or the lovely lady at Denny's, will do the same. Not that I'm denigrating the efforts of the "blue haired brigade" - they are usually quite competent, and almost always meet or exceed my expectations. Unlike, say, the average waitron at Chili's or TGIFridays, for example.

:D :D :D

I can relate to that "blue haired brigade":rolleyes: Denny's and a place called "Norm's" are sometimes the only restaurant's open down here during the always popular graveyard shift. Had one of those fine ladies bring me a glass of water once with one of her fingers sticking in my water:eek: ! Good stuff!

[caviargal]

On my recent HAL cruise, we opted for most of our breakfasts in the PG (suite perk) and 6 of 7 dinners. By the third day, we were "regulars" and treated wonderfully.

We tipped a few dollars in the mornings and 10-25 at dinner, as we brought several bottles of wine aboard and the wine steward always decanted them properly and served them in appropriate glasses.

At the end of the cruise, we also tipped the manager of PG as he did some special favors for us throughout the week.

I can honestly say that our PG experiences were a highlight of our cruise and next year on OS we have plans to dine there each evening, except when in port.

CG

[ekerr19]

That's right-- $2! It was assumed they'd make most of their income from tips.

Shelli -

Back in the day, lol (when DH and I had these jobs) it was even less! I made $1.58 per hour - the rest in tips. I think it's one of the reasons DH & I are minimum 20% tippers - even poor service warrants 10% in my book. If we get really exceptional service or frequent an establishment regularly and get to know staff, we tip more - especially around the Holidays.

IMO, NO one should have to depend on tips to make a decent wage, but that's still the way it is in many states.

I am enjoying reading some of the stories - many of us can relate.

One thing I'd like to add regarding a meal at Spago vs. a meal at Olive Garden.... we tip based upon the total amount of the bill, thus the Spago meal would generate more in tips not because the server was any better or worse, just as a matter of economics.

[hammybee]

I expect the same level of service no matter where I go. Blue skies ...rita

And if you received the same level of service, would or should you leave the same tip, regardless of what the meal cost?

In other words, assuming satisfactory service, the wait person's compensation is usually determined as a percentage of the cost of the meal they served?

I think we might rationalize that the waitperson can aspire to serve in more costly venues, but realistically, there may be a plethora of reasons that make this impractical, including, but not limited to appearance, grammar, style, luck and even motivation. Some of this falls under the umbrella of life is not fair, but this is an area where each guest can make a difference.

[hammybee]

dakrewser: Everyone:

If you ever leave less than 8% you are taking money out of their pocket. They MUST claim 8% of sales (tracked) to the IRS, and 100% of all credit card tips (tracked.) If a server is horrid, speak to a manger. Don't be afraid of the confrontation, management needs to know.

bargirl, Thank you for this thought provoking discussion.

To make certain we are all on the same page, IRS withholdings are not applicable to the crew of most cruiselines.

[dakrewser]

dakrewser: Thanks so much for your answer. So the $10 you leave is a flat rate (is that $10 for two of you, or pp, and is that $10 to be split by the waiter and assistant? - sorry, just trying to get clarification.) Or is it based on something else like $10 is 50% of the surcharge, or $10 + the $20 surcharge = $30 so it's a 20% tip on what would be a $150 meal? or $10+$40 (for two)=$50 therefore 20% of a $250 meal for two? (I'm just trying to understand where you came up with $10.)

That's a whole lot more information than you need, I'm afraid. $10 is $10.


Everyone:
If you ever leave less than 8% you are taking money out of their pocket.

Quite possibly, but that's not my problem - it's theirs. When the service is so bad that the tip is below 8% (and I always leave something, just so they know I was thinking about it) it's time for the waitperson to consider another line of work. No, it's well past time for that.

My tips are based solely on the service I receive. I really don't give a [fill in your favorite metaphor] what problems the server might have or be having. And, yes, I do know the difference between a bad server and one who is being ill treated by the kitchen.

[SnorkelBear]

Please help! I am planning to eat at the PG two times on our upcoming cruise. How much do you think I need to tip the first time to keep someone from sticking their finger in my water glass on our second visit? (This will only make sense to those which have read this entire thread.)

Also, 8% of sales or not, waiting tables in the U.S. remains an occupation that most people do not pay taxes on all money earned. If you are only taking home 8%, it is time for a new career.

This is one of those rare threads that evokes so many emotions from so many people. Very entertaining.:rolleyes:

[hammybee]

This is one of those rare threads that evokes so many emotions from so many people. Very entertaining.:rolleyes:


Agreed and yet, many of us keep coming back for more. The finger in the glass did make it all worthwhile to me.

[duck tune]

Also, does anyone know if the Pinnacle still has Hungarian (or eastern European) wait staff? When the Pinnacle concept first started, it was almost all Eastern European waiters but lately it looks like they are being replaced by the Indonesian guys. Just wondering if the Hungarians/Romanians etc. are leaving

On the Zaandam in June the Pinnacle staff was Hungarian and Russian. On the Oosterdam in March it was Russian and Indonesian.

[Copper10-8]

On the Zaandam in June the Pinnacle staff was Hungarian and Russian. On the Oosterdam in March it was Russian and Indonesian.

Russian! That's a new one, thanks!:)

[bardgal]

John: You ROCK! Thanks so much! :D

dakrewser: Being a former TGIFridays "waitron" as you put it, I can tell you've never worked in a restaurant. My guess is you've never worked in any hospitality position, or in a job that was tip-based. (You are very fortunate!) As for it not being your "problem"... yes it is, you just had crap service. Have you ever spoken to a manager? Or do you think the server had better just "get the hint" because you left "less than 8%"? I guess from your reply the $10 is a random choice. I still don't know if that is per person, or for the whole check (I'm assuming you don't dine there alone, but I could be wrong.) This was a serious question on my part, being the original subject of this thread, and I think I deserve an honest answer, not a flippant repsonse. I have never cruised HAL and am trying to understand how everyone tips/doesn't in the PG. I get how it works on Princess.

hammybee: No matter where I dine, whether it be The Waffle House or Spago, if I am being served, I walk in with the intention of leaving 20%. They will get either more (25%+) or less (never below 10%) and I will speak to a manager if the service is less than what I expected.

Everyone: The 8% I mentioned: I was only referring to US land-based restaurants (not fast food.) And they must all not only report to the IRS, but a law was passed in the last (10?) years about paying a certain amount per employee to Social Security as well - it's a special thing for restaurants since a portion of their income is not reported. However, every single penny you leave on a credit card is tracked and reported to the IRS. And it's not just a random total. It's broken down into smaller catagories from the main ones: Alcohol, food, apps, desserts, and tips. So if a server were to only claim 8% of their sales, and it's not a cash-only establishment, then they'd have a MOON-SIZED red flag for the IRS to come and audit them. Restaurant worked used to be the most audited workers in the US. Not sure if it's still this way.

So - does anyone else have an answer to my question? Those of you who tip at the PG:

On what do you base the amount you leave? Do you estimate the dollar amount on what you've eaten (what you'd pay at say Spago's for the same items...) then leave 15%-25% (or more) of that? Or is it a flat-rate per person sitting at the table? Or is it a flat-rate per server?

thanks! :D

[dakrewser]

dakrewser: Being a former TGIFridays "waitron" as you put it, I can tell you've never worked in a restaurant. My guess is you've never worked in any hospitality position, or in a job that was tip-based.

You know what happens when you assume - and you're also quite wrong.

As to speaking to the "manager," only if there's something they can do to alleviate the problem. I'm not vindictive enough to try to get the waitron fired, I'd just like to encourage them to either take a more professional interest in a worthy profession - or move on to something else.

[bardgal]

You know what happens when you assume - and you're also quite wrong.

As to speaking to the "manager," only if there's something they can do to alleviate the problem. I'm not vindictive enough to try to get the waitron fired, I'd just like to encourage them to either take a more professional interest in a worthy profession - or move on to something else.

I'm glad to hear it. I love when I'm wrong, it means I can learn something! :D So educate me Dave, where and in what position did you work? (seriously. I think everyone needs to work in at least one of these types of professions, it makes for a more empathetic person, so good for you!)

However, I have to say I find the term "waitron" very degrading and offensive, and I think that is your intention. I'm curious why you have more energy to be mean and not just answer my honest question when I'm trying to do the right thing on HAL. Instead you're condescending and dismissive and just tell me I've asked for too much information. Isn't that what these boards are for??? For the most part, I've found the HAL boards very welcoming and supportive, until now.

Giving a server less of a tip is not going to encourage them to get a different job. Most likely they'll just think you're cheap. They have a lot more going on than just your table (and if it was a restaurant you worked in, then you know that.) If a server is in the weeds and can't give you the service you feel you deserve, management needs to know about it, and try to figure out why. Complaining about service rarely gets someone fired, you most likely will help out make a bad situation better for not only you and the server, but other patrons as well. Even if it's to give the server less tables so they physically CAN give you better service. If you are one of 20 tables in a server's station, you're going to get less attentive service than you will if you are one of 4 or 5. If you're sharing a station with another table that has a drunken party of 30 that is one-timing your server to death with, "oh, and can I have a side of mayo?" when they could have ordered that with the meal instead of after the food arrives, then when the side of mayo comes they complain that their food is cold even though it was hot when it arrived in front of them, but the server was trying to get your dinner salads and take care of the other 5 tables in their station...... and get their mayo.

[dakrewser]

However, I have to say I find the term "waitron" very degrading and offensive, and I think that is your intention.

It's a perfectly fine term, non-gender-specific, for waiter/waitress. I'm not sure why you have difficulty with it, I find it less demeaning than "server" for example.

And, there's a vast difference between asking for information (which many have provided) and demanding it.

[happy cruzer]

Hi, Bard gal et al. the problem that we are having is that some want to base the tipping on a formula like we are used to doing in restaurents in the US.

The PG is not a restaurent in the US.
The PG staff receives some tips from the tip pool
HAL and the PG staff want their privacy and will not disclose the details of the tip pool or the cover charge in the PG

Therefore the diners in the PG are left with incomplete information if they want to be scientific about tips.

Therefore almost everyone replied that they leave what they feel like which tended to be about 10 to 20 a person. So we have gotten the answer many times, including from Dave, that sly dog.:)

that about settles it for me until HAL discloses the tip pool detail i.e when pigs fly.

[bardgal]

Dave said he "left $10." - But was not specific about if that was for the entire check, or per person. I thought that was a fair question.

The difference is that I expect to not have to ask the professional waitperson in the better restaurant. He/she will anticipate my need, perhaps even before I'm aware of it. I don't presume that the counter staff at the Waffle Shop, or the lovely lady at Denny's, will do the same. Not that I'm denigrating the efforts of the "blue haired brigade" - they are usually quite competent, and almost always meet or exceed my expectations. Unlike, say, the average waitron at Chili's or TGIFridays, for example. Dave: I have a problem with it in the way you first used it. And yes, I find it dergrading in this context. You were pretty clear.

[Copper10-8]

Dave said he "left $10." - But was not specific about if that was for the entire check, or per person. I thought that was a fair question.

I have a problem with it in the way you first used it. And yes, I find it dergrading in this context. You were pretty clear.

Bardgal; when you have a chance, can you shoot me a quick e-mail at jmprins@sbcglobal.net?;)

[bardgal]

Bardgal; when you have a chance, can you shoot me a quick e-mail at jmprins@sbcglobal.net?;)
done!

:D

[jagmanss1]

Hi, Bard gal et al. the problem that we are having is that some want to base the tipping on a formula like we are used to doing in restaurents in the US.

The PG is not a restaurent in the US.
The PG staff receives some tips from the tip pool
HAL and the PG staff want their privacy and will not disclose the details of the tip pool or the cover charge in the PG

Therefore the diners in the PG are left with incomplete information if they want to be scientific about tips.

Therefore almost everyone replied that they leave what they feel like which tended to be about 10 to 20 a person. So we have gotten the answer many times, including from Dave, that sly dog.:)

that about settles it for me until HAL discloses the tip pool detail i.e when pigs fly.

Sorry I disagree, Nothing has been settled and I think bardgal deserves an answer to the question... I would also like to know what the tip above the $20pp surcharge for the PG is based on..... If I get this right are people laeving A $10 tip based on 2 people?

Examplep; 1 couple (2 people ) total= $40 and 20% of the $40 would be $8 so you round it off and leave $10

I just can't understand any other rational, Why would 1 person leave A $10 tip after paying $20? what would this be based on.... That would be A 50% tip

Someone explain.....

[dakrewser]

Examplep; 1 couple (2 people ) total= $40 and 20% of the $40 would be $8 so you round it off and leave $10

I just can't understand any other rational, Why would 1 person leave A $10 tip after paying $20? what would this be based on.... That would be A 50% tip Someone explain.....
The flaw in your logic is that you're treating the $20 as the cost of the meal - it isn't, it's purely a cover charge.

BTW, when I say "I" leave $10, that's me alone. Had I said "we", the number would have been different.

[Copper10-8]

The flaw in your logic is that you're treating the $20 as the cost of the meal - it isn't, it's purely a cover charge.

BTW, when I say "I" leave $10, that's me alone. Had I said "we", the number would have been different.

Hey Dave; is that good info (verified) that the $20 pp is a cover charge or are you assuming that?

[serendipity1499]

Sorry I disagree, Nothing has been settled and I think bardgal deserves an answer to the question... I would also like to know what the tip above the $20pp surcharge for the PG is based on..... If I get this right are people laeving A $10 tip based on 2 people?

Examplep; 1 couple (2 people ) total= $40 and 20% of the $40 would be $8 so you round it off and leave $10

I just can't understand any other rational, Why would 1 person leave A $10 tip after paying $20? what would this be based on.... That would be A 50% tip

Someone explain.....

I really think that no one likes to tell specifically what they give as an extra for any of their stewards...Many times it's just how the person feels at the moment, & it's not based on any one thing..They decide if the extra good service warrants an extra tip or not..Some leave $10 per couple others leave $20 or more per couple..Others leave nothing..

Also you are assuming that the $20.00 is a tip..It is not! According to HAL it is a service charge that HAL charges..What they do with that service charge no one knows & HAL will not tell us..

Dave...HAL specifically states it is a Service charge, not a Cover Charge..

I've been on many cruises & when I asked the ladies at the front desk if the wait staff in the Pinnacle shared in th $10.00 per day tip & is it customary to leave an extra tip was told "It is completely up to each guest if they wish to tip extra or not, but certainly not required"

May I suggest that those who would like a definitive answer ask for themselves when you board the ship & let us know the answer you receive when you get back home..

Cheers Betty

[SnorkelBear]

It is simple. Leave what makes you comfortable.

Dave, you crack me up. Do you live in SF. (Farallon reference.)

Bardgal, switch to Decaf. You can't compare apples to oranges. The term "Waitron" refers to servers that send their orders to the kitchen via computer terminal. There is nothing derogatory about it. You are not going to change the World on this board. Just my humble opinion. ( I hate acronyms!) KWIM (Know what I mean?)

To everyone, PKYFOOMWG. (Please Keep Your Finger Out Of My Water Glass.) That's for you Copper.

[serendipity1499]

Bardgal et al..Please don't be offended by the word Waitron..

I waited tables in my Mom's restaurant & Hat checked many years ago, but had never heard of the word...Looked it up in the "American Talking Dictionary" which defines it as:

wait-ron (watrn)
n. A waiter or waitress: "The dining room staff is as comfortable with making you comfortable as the typical modern waitron is uncomfortable" (Washington Post).

Cheers every one & enjoy your cruise...Betty:)

[dakrewser]

Hey Dave; is that good info (verified) that the $20 pp is a cover charge or are you assuming that?

from wikipedia: "A cover charge usually refers to a fee for entry to an establishment."

That is, you pay that fee no matter what you order. So, yeah, I consider it "verified" no matter what words HAL might use.

SnorkelBear: In the SF area - closer to Chez TJ than the French Laundry, though.:)

WAITRON:
"n.A waiter or waitress.[Alteration of WAITER (http://www.answers.com/topic/waiter).] " (American Heritage Dictionary)
" Unisex term coined in the 1980s for waitresses and waiters" (Barron's Food Lovers Companion)

Intersting Bardgal that you're the only one who found my usage ("the average waitron at Chili's or TGIFridays, for example") degrading. Could it be that you found your experience working at TGIF to be degrading? I simply used a non-gender-specific term to contrast with the overwhelmingly female gender of the servers at Denny's or the Waffle Shop (which, alas, we have none of on the left coast. Of course, we don't have White Towers or White Catles either. But that's a different thread.)

Anyone who claims extensive experience waiting tables should be able to roughly estimate that land-side cost of their meal at the PG, then base their tip on that using whatever percentage they like.

[Copper10-8]

It is simple. Leave what makes you comfortable.

Dave, you crack me up. Do you live in SF. (Farallon reference.)

Bardgal, switch to Decaf. You can't compare apples to oranges. The term "Waitron" refers to servers that send their orders to the kitchen via computer terminal. There is nothing derogatory about it. You are not going to change the World on this board. Just my humble opinion. ( I hate acronyms!) KWIM (Know what I mean?)

To everyone, PKYFOOMWG. (Please Keep Your Finger Out Of My Water Glass.) That's for you Copper.

Thanks for the research, Dave!

Don't worry huggybear, it will never happen again:)

[hammybee]

To everyone, PKYFOOMWG.

This is the best of this past week. tftl.

[bardgal]

Thanks for asking, but I did not feel demeaned working at Fridays. Nor did I find it demeaning in my million other jobs ranging from Ride Operator at Disneyland to Software QA Test Engineer at Xerox. The only job I've ever hated was the one day I tried to tolerate as a fragrance model at a department store. (Not demeaning, just beyond horrid.) As an actor, (and having moved all over hell and beyond - CA to MO to all over New England - three years out of my life while married to a TGIF regional manger) I feel as though I've had almost every 'day gig' on the planet. :eek: (I'll never ever take SoCal for granted again as long as I live! I've been back since '91 and I'm still greatful to see tumbleweeds and buy Champange on Sundays in a grocery store. aaaah civilization!) :D

There are many offensive terms in our culture. Slang for a person's sexuality, race, culture, religion, and even occupation.

Yes, it might be only me, but so what? I find it offensive. I find the way Dave used it originally as well as the Washington Post example above, offensive. Dave, et al might not have meant it that way (although with the rest of his posts I have my doubts), just as people using the term "colored" back a million years ago might not have known they were being offensive. Just FYI, as an ex-server (thankfully here on the Left Coast), I find it offensive. Waitron is equal to Automaton - by using that term you are dehumanizing the person serving you, which is it's entended use. And for those of you coming to the defense of your waitstaff, I think that is the last thing you want to do.

Or maybe that's just us here in L.A.:
According to the Global Language Monitor (http://www.languagemonitor.com/wst_page20.html): "The Top Politically Incorrect words [for 2004] were: Los Angeles County's insistence of covering over with labels any computer networking protocols that mention master/slave jargon. Following closely were non-same sex marriage for marriage, and waitron for waiter or waitress."

Being chastised in such a condescending manner for asking for too much information on these boards is also offensive. (More so than "waitron".)

jagmanss1: Thank you.

For the record: According to HAL's website, the $20pp charge for the PG is a surcharge, not a cover charge (which I find even more vague.) Maybe I should call my pal in the Princess HO and see if they know anyone in the HAL HO to see if we can get a more definitive answer. (Of course there's always the risk I'll look like complete inexperienced cruise touron* for asking.) ;)


*Contraction of tourist-moron.


p.s. - fingers in any beverage glass - eeeew.

[jagmanss1]

Hi, Bard gal et al. the problem that we are having is that some want to base the tipping on a formula like we are used to doing in restaurents in the US.

The PG is not a restaurent in the US.


Dave you said this:
Anyone who claims extensive experience waiting tables should be able to roughly estimate that land-side cost of their meal at the PG, then base their tip on that using whatever percentage they like.

Hmm... Dave it would seem the flaw in your logic is that you are basing your tip on what the meal would cost at a land based restaurent, Which clearly the PG Is not.... You call it a cover charge.... Not so, I don't know what part of the Country you live in, But where I came from and live now A cover charge is still for entertainment, Like a band or show.... I have never been on A cruise where the specialty restaurant put on such A show:rolleyes: ..... you can Qoute the encyclapedia all you want, But I live in the real world and facts are facts not from A book.....

Fact: The PG charges extra too eat there and is not A cover charge..... Did anyone really ever think about what it really cost for the food? Did anyone ever think that mybe land based places mark it up like 200%...... Hey... The cruiseline buys this food In bulk and already has it onboard and purchased this food at A huge discount....

Granted, we all have our opinions, But in general it is and seems to be of better quality.... Is it? spices alone can make a big differance.... And granted they don't serve some of the dishes in the main dining room....

Dave, Question.... Did you feel that the $20pp was not enough for the excellent food and decided it was worth $30.... Hey throw that extra $10 my way....

Dave, Come to my house... I'll tell you what I'll charge you $20 and make you A teriyaki (sp?) London broil with homemade sauce on the grill that you will never get at any cruise or 5 star restuarant or what I call my last name 1/2 pound burger or chicken that I spice and would make a fortune if I owned A place, Plus wine or drink and desert and I could buy all this for less than I would charge you and still make out, Because I bought it all on sale and If we all ate all 3 I would still have more to charge others... Then you would give me $10 more? Because?

What... You felt it was worth more.... Sorry still not getting it....

For those who say....It is simple. Leave what makes you comfortable.... Comfortable for what ? What reason, You are being charged $20pp for what the cruisline paid maybe $5 pp for at at bulk discount... Sorry still don't get the logic....

Again this is not land based....

I will close with this... Yes We do and have left A tip, But after this thread I will rethink leaving one again..... My Choice my opinion and have that right...... Right or wrong...There seems to be no bases to leave on as far as I'm concerned..........

[dakrewser]

I just love it when people ask you to cite references - then decide they really don't want to believe the references!

Or those who get to deicde, post hoc, what's an insult based on their misunderstanding of the word.

Ah well, these too (two?) shall pass....

[jagmanss1]

bardgal, You are welcome, But I feel you did not have to explain anything as you did....

Dave on the otherhand does IMHO.... He is way off and offensive and on the offensive, Could it be Dave you are grasping at straws? you say you leave what makes you feel comfortable or could it be that you are that insecure....

Oh!!! And Dave, Invite all your friends to my home for A great dinner, I love making money.... As you put it If was we the amount you left would have been different...

Come one come all... If I cook it they will come... ROTFLMAO....:D

[bardgal]

Dave you said this:
Anyone who claims extensive experience waiting tables should be able to roughly estimate that land-side cost of their meal at the PG, then base their tip on that using whatever percentage they like......


Good points jagmanss1. I'd actually like to address what Dave said, especially since he said he leaves $10 for just himself. (And thank you Dave for clarifying that for me.)

Dave: You seem, from what you've said, that you're a pretty generous tipper if the service is good. I also don't remember you stating that you've ever had bad service at the PG, (if I've got that wrong, I apologize, there have been a lot of posts.) So if you use the formula you state above, $10 would be 20% of a $50 land-based meal. I got the impression from the menu that a meal there would be a lot more than the equivalent of a $50 land-based meal. I've never been on HAL, but I can't imagine it not being as nice as Princess where the dinners in the regular dining room would be more than the equivalant of a $50 land-based meal.

Oh and, it doesn't really matter whether you feel it was I who misunderstood the term or not. I'm still offended.

[jagmanss1]

I just love it when people ask you to cite references - then decide they really don't want to believe the references!

Or those who get to deicde, post hoc, what's an insult based on their misunderstanding of the word.

Ah well, these too (two?) shall pass....

Awww!!! Dave You have been so outspoken till now... I'm A Bit disappointed in that response... Do I hear a bit of ..... Hmm.... I might have been too harsh? Or is it that you may just be A Teeny bit wrong in your analogy and overall being disrespectfull to some?

[jagmanss1]

Well Guys It is way past my bedtime and I just got cranky....

Sorry dave for my last post, It was uncalled for.... this thread just got to my last nerve i guess....

[bardgal]

Ah well, these too (two?) shall pass....
Is this just another one of your underhanded insults, and in invitation or hope that jagmanss1 and I will just go away.....?

If not, then what? Or am I just "misundertanding" you again? Just because you say something is not offensive doesn't mean others might not be offended by it.

According to Merriam-Webster online:
wait·ron "Etymology: blend of waiter or waitress and -tron (suggesting the machinelike impersonality of such work)"

Who is misunderstanding??

I'm very glad that most people here on the HAL boards are more welcoming.

If you don't want to bother answering our questions, then don't. Rudeness seems like a waste of your energy, unless of course you enjoy it.

[Copper10-8]

bardgal, You are welcome, But I feel you did not have to explain anything as you did....

Dave on the otherhand does IMHO.... He is way off and offensive and on the offensive, Could it be Dave you are grasping at straws? you say you leave what makes you feel comfortable or could it be that you are that insecure....

Oh!!! And Dave, Invite all your friends to my home for A great dinner, I love making money.... As you put it If was we the amount you left would have been different...

Come one come all... If I cook it they will come... ROTFLMAO....:D

As long as you leave your fingers out of my water !;)

[dakrewser]

Just because you say something is not offensive doesn't mean others might not be offended by it.

I've no control over what someone whom I've never met before might find offensive - especially when, it seems, no one else did.

This thread's gone on way too long as it is. I'm out of it.

[serendipity1499]

To get back to the original question at hand, this thread has brought up an interesting cunundrum for me.:confused: .

We have always left a tip in the Pinnacle and all the other previous alternative restaurants, prior to our last cruise....

On the Prinsendam, we made reservations with our friends for the Pinnacle & invited our other tablemates (a couple) to join us..When it came time to sign the bill, our tablemates assured us that the $20.00 was for the wait staff tip.. They had also traveled on HAL many times & stated that the alternative restaurants on HAL had always been free & HAL instituted this as a tip to go to the wait staff..They claimed passengers do not normally leave a tip & this was an incentive for HAL to get good waiters..Therefore, no one left a tip that time..

I'm guessing that is why the staff at the front desk answered my questions the way they did..They explained to me that the Pinnacle staff shares in the $10.00 per day auto tip..When I asked if was customary to tip extra in the Pinnacle they were noncommittal with the following statement: "It is completely up to each guest if they wish to tip extra or not, but certainly not required" So I never found out if it was customary to tip extra or not! Next time I might ask if the $20.00 is for the tip..Wonder if I'll get a straight answer..


Looked up the meanings of both Cover Charge & Service Charge at Dictionary.Com..

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=cover%20charge&ia=luna&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch %3Fq%3Dcover%2Bcharge%26x%3D40%26y%3D11) new!
cover charge 
a fee, in addition to the cost of food and drink, charged by a restaurant, nightclub, etc., for entertainment. Also called cover. Compare minimum (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=minimum) (def. 4).
[Origin: 1920–25, American]


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=ahd4) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=cover%20charge&ia=ahd4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch %3Fq%3Dcover%2Bcharge%26x%3D40%26y%3D11) new! cover charge n. A fixed amount added to the bill at a nightclub or restaurant for entertainment or services.
wordNet (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=wn) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=cover%20charge&ia=wn&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch %3Fq%3Dcover%2Bcharge%26x%3D40%26y%3D11) new! cover charge
n : a fixed charge by a restaurant or night club over and above the charge for food and drink [syn: cover (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cover)]


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)

SERVICE CHARGE

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=ahd4) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=service%20charge&ia=ahd4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch %3Fq%3Dservice%2Bcharge%26x%3D27%26y%3D15) new! service charge n. An additional charge for a service for which there is already a basic fee. Also called service fee. service charge new!
n : a percentage of a bill (as at a hotel or restaurant) added in payment for service [syn: service fee (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=service%20fee)]

WordNet (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=wn) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=service%20charge&ia=wn&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch %3Fq%3Dservice%2Bcharge%26x%3D27%26y%3D15) new!
service charge
n : a percentage of a bill (as at a hotel or restaurant) added in payment for service [syn: service fee (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=service%20fee)]

I really don't know the answer to this as we have always left a tip & felt very badly the last time..

However, since HAL calls this a Service Charge not a Cover charge, wouldn't it stand to reason that this would be a tip for the staff & would go into the tipping pool ?

Sorry for the long post..Happy cruising all.:) .Betty

[RuthC]

Betty, my understanding is that HAL call it a "surcharge", not a "service charge".
I can't swear to the timing on this, as is was so long ago, but I thought the added charge for the Marco Polo/Pinnacle was added before the $10 per person, per day charge was added to everyone's fare.
If that timing is correct it would more likely place the $20 in the surcharge category.

To my knowledge HAL---and everything quoted in these posts---has said that Pinnacle staff receives part of the $10/pp,pd charge, but I have never seen anything from HAL that suggests Pinnacle staff receives any part of the $20 charge.

In any case, I'm one of those who believes that tipping is a highly individual matter. Whether, who, how much is up to the individual enjoying the meal; it's not really up to any other diner to be paying attention to what I do about it.

[peaches from georgia]

RuthC-

The additional $20pp charge was added long before the $10/day/pp autotip. We have only been on 2 cruises with the autotip, both in 2005, but always paid the $20pp for the Pinnacle in a number of cruises in 2003 and 2004.

I never have thought of the $20pp as a tip and always have considered it a surcharge. That's never bothered us at all, thinking the Pinnacle dinner worth a lot more than the additional $20 over and above the cruise fare allotment to food. We always tip the Pinnacle stewards on our own in cash and will continue to do so.

[RuthC]

Thanks for confirming my memory, peaches. Then when the $20 was added it went to HAL---not the stewards in the Pinnacle. HAL was still under "tipping not required".
I see no basis in fact to believe there has been any change in the distribution of the $20 surcharge. It goes to HAL. The Pinnacle stewards are included in the $10 service charge.

[PRINSENDAM]

To my knowledge HAL---and everything quoted in these posts---has said that Pinnacle staff receives part of the $10/pp,pd charge, but I have never seen anything from HAL that suggests Pinnacle staff receives any part of the $20 charge.




Ruth, You are right. A year or so ago I asked someone in Head Office about this and was told most definitely that the $20 was a surcharge for food and had nothing to do with service.

Stephen

[serendipity1499]

I stand corrected.:o ...I should have looked this up myself instead of quoting someone else..For that I apologize!..l Ruth & Peaches, you are correct from HAL's WEB site it clearly states it's a Surcharge " Here is the quote from HAL's On-Line Fact Sheet "Culinary Excellence at sea"

Quote
Pinnacle Grill — Beautifully appointed alternative-dining venues on all Holland America Line ships, the Pinnacle Grill is ideal for a romantic dinner for two or an elegant dining spot for a group celebration. Featuring
Pacific Northwest specialties including selected cuts of Sterling Silver beef and superb seafood items, as well as carefully selected wines from renowned Pacifi c Northwest vineyards, expect a delicious experience. The Pinnacle Grill also features distinctive Bvlgari china, Frette linens and elegant Riedel stemware. Open for dinner only by reservation, guests pay a modest surcharge of $20 per person for dinner and $10 for lunch. UnQuote


v. tr. sur-charged, sur-charg-ing, sur-charg-es. 1. To charge (a person) an additional sum

However, as Ruth says, I honestly believe that it is up to each individual to decide whether to tip or not to tip..And each person must decide what they believe is the right amount as I expressed in one of my previous posts on this thread..

Happy cruising everyone...:) Betty

[sail7seas]

We well remember when Odyssey and Marco Polo Restaurants were no extra charge and we also remember we always tipped when we dined there.

When Pinnacles were added to the ships (and existing Odyssey and Marco Polo restaurants were converted), that is when the $20 charge went into effect. As the others have said, that occured BEFORE the automatic tipping was put into place.

We now pay the $20 per person and continue to tip additional. The $20 is not a gratuity. It is a surcharge.

[codyody]

I cannot believe I am adding to this, but I have 2 thoughts:

1. Waitron offended me, too. I just didn't want to add another dog to the fight.

2. If the $20 is a service charcge, does that mean that when the 1st night was still $10 the service was only half as good and now that there is no discount the service has improved? I'm KIDDING, I swear!:D About thought #2

[serendipity1499]

I cannot believe I am adding to this, but I have 2 thoughts:

2. If the $20 is a service charcge, does that mean that when the 1st night was still $10 the service was only half as good and now that there is no discount the service has improved? I'm KIDDING, I swear!:D About thought #2

LOL...;) But it's not a Service Charge according to HAL it's a Surcharge, so the service should still be excellent..

Sail...Perhaps you missed my last post, but I did acknowledge my error in thinking it was a Service Charge..This only came up because of our last conversation with our tablemates...I changed my mind with my last post & conceded that Ruth & Peaches were correct as HAL calls it a Surcharge..

My only thought is that each person should do what they feel is correct & should not be berated by CC members either for or against tipping..It is no one else business what others choose to do..

Happy cruising all...Betty

[Copper10-8]

LOL...;)

Sail...Perhaps you missed my last post, but I did acknowledge my error in thinking it was a Service Charge..This only came up because of our last conversation with our tablemates...I changed my mind with my last post & conceded that Ruth & Peaches were correct as HAL calls it a Surcharge..

My only thought is that each person should do what they feel is correct & should not be berated by CC members either for or against tipping..It is no one else business what others choose to do..

Right on, Betty!, you nailed that one! :)

Maybe we can get some dancing girls in the PG and then we can really call it a cover charge!

[hammybee]

I could not find anything that interested me on TV tonight, so I came to check out the " As the Tables Turn"" thread to read the next installment.

After this, I may just dine in The Lido and hope for...oh yes Copper Guy....someone with MB's,to walk by. And speaking of the Lido......ever leave these guys a tip.

[Lvteks]

I saw the topic and number of replies and thought "well certainly the first few replies should cover what I want to know" Yeah right! I read all of them. Codyody may have a point, we made the mistake of scheduling PG on the first night of our Volendam cruise. It was to be a birthday celebration, but we brought our own cake because our DD is vegetarian. I wish I had gone barefoot because it was definitely a "no shirt, no shoes...NO SERVICE" experience. We suffered in silence until the cake was bright to the table in the box.

This, after a delightful experience with Jon and the whole staff on the PG of the Prinsendam, was sloppy, mismanaged service. In fact our server seemed to be more of a bus boy....stained shirt vs jacket, neither communicative nor helpful. It was a relief to know the rest of the cruise would be in the dining room. And that did not disappoint, we were well accommodated and we did show our appreciation in deed as well as word. Yes I keep notes and very faithfully fill out the survey with names, departments etc. One of the nicest was the unseen phone receptionist who handled requests very graciously. I made sure her name was listed.

Blessings,

Gail

[SnorkelBear]

Good Monday Morning! It is a great start to whole new week of opportunities to excel.

Some people are still looking for an answer to the original question posed at the start of this thread. After some serious consternation, I have solved this festering uncertainty.

For those who need to know how much to tip? Tip $10.00 per diner. Do not falter or waver on this. Why $10.00. Because I said so and it is not to be questioned.

For everyone else (except that Copper guy), tip whatever you want, but never, ever, repeat never tell anyone else what you left. This part is very important.

Copper. You are responsible for tipping the dancers, and please make sure they keep their fingers out of my water glass.

We need to let this thread go. It is time to focus on the new ice bucket controversy.

Sail well my friends.:D

[happy cruzer]

ok, let it die. Man, I let the ice buckets get right past me. I am such a loser.:o

[hammybee]

. We need to let this thread go. It is time to focus on the new ice bucket controversy. :D

Oh my goodness yes. Let's move on...a new week... and who knows where the next post is going to take us.

[frbob]

I asked HAL if the wait staff in the Pinnacle Grill shares in the pooled ($10 per day per person) tips and/or if any part of the $20 PG surcharge includes gratuities. Here is their reply:

"A gratuity of $10 per guest per day for dining and stateroom services will automatically be added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. We are confident you will find the service onboard exemplary and, should you wish to make adjustments, you may do so at the end of the cruise by contacting the front desk. A 15% service charge will be automatically added to your bar charges and dining room wine account.

" Yes, the staff that works in the Pinnacle Grill share in the pooled tips. The reason they pool tips is good service starts with crew members you may never have the opportunity to meet, such as our highly trained kitchen staff. They also benefit from the gratuities included in your bill. To insure the efforts of those crew members also recognized, and to discourage solicitation of guests, dining and cabin stewards are required to turn in any tips they receive directly."

So, it appears the Pinnacle Grill staff is included in the automatic tip pool. It also appears that any extra tips given to Grill staff have to be turned in for reallocation and apportionment. The practical side suggests any cash given directly to a waiter will be pocketed, never to be seen or shared by other crew members.

Hope this helps.

[serendipity1499]

Good Monday Morning! It is a great start to whole new week of opportunities to excel.

Some people are still looking for an answer to the original question posed at the start of this thread. After some serious consternation, I have solved this festering uncertainty.

For those who need to know how much to tip? Tip $10.00 per diner. Do not falter or waver on this. Why $10.00. Because I said so and it is not to be questioned.

For everyone else (except that Copper guy), tip whatever you want, but never, ever, repeat never tell anyone else what you left. This part is very important.

Copper. You are responsible for tipping the dancers, and please make sure they keep their fingers out of my water glass.

We need to let this thread go. It is time to focus on the new ice bucket controversy.

Sail well my friends.:D


What a Hoot Snorkelbear...You've made my day!:) :)

Betty

P.S. My DH wants to know what time the Dancing Girls come on? I offered to dance for him, but somehow he just seems to favor the Girls! Wonder why?:confused: I'm stuck dancing with "Edwardo" OOPS I mean "Ernesto"..Keep mixing them up..

[wowzo]

Thanks, frbob, that makes it crystal clear. No one is left out and all share in the gratuity. Makes it easy for everyone to know that you don't have to do any more than the $10pp, pd unless you feel like it. MaryAnn

[happy cruzer]

The practical side suggests any cash given directly to a waiter will be pocketed, never to be seen or shared by other crew members.

Hope this helps.


It does help alot.

But I do think that most of the cash tips are turned in to the pool. If they don't turn them in they are cheating on their fellow crewmembers and they also don't get as many tips as the other crewmember recorded by their managers. Also I think they typically share rooms. Their room mate would probably turn them in. Remember every tip not turned in is stolen from the crew. I think that since their fellows are watching, they would normally get caught stealing from the crew and I think disciplinary actions are taken. Plus they are rewarded for turning in the tips with time off and promotions (that's what others have been told by crew members). If anyone knows differently, I would love to know.

[ekerr19]

But I do think that most of the cash tips are turned in to the pool. If they don't turn them in they are cheating on their fellow crewmembers and they also don't get as many tips as the other crewmember recorded by their managers. Also I think they typically share rooms. Their room mate would probably turn them in. Remember every tip not turned in is stolen from the crew. I think that since their fellows are watching, they would normally get caught stealing from the crew and I think disciplinary actions are taken. Plus they are rewarded for turning in the tips with time off and promotions (that's what others have been told by crew members). If anyone knows differently, I would love to know.

Do you really believe this???? Most of the crew know each other - and why in the world would you think they'd be "rewarded" for turning in a fellow crew member/countryman/person????

The auto-tip works well enough - initially I was against it, but it makes sense for those who never tip and it's easy for us to tip those we may only get one drink from -
the bar(s) we frequent and even the people we know will always get a little extra from us.

Stealing from the crew???? Lack of promotions???? I'd love to know the basis for your post... :confused:

[serendipity1499]

I asked HAL if the wait staff in the Pinnacle Grill shares in the pooled ($10 per day per person) tips and/or if any part of the $20 PG surcharge includes gratuities. Here is their reply:

"A gratuity of $10 per guest per day for dining and stateroom services will automatically be added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. We are confident you will find the service onboard exemplary and, should you wish to make adjustments, you may do so at the end of the cruise by contacting the front desk. A 15% service charge will be automatically added to your bar charges and dining room wine account.

" Yes, the staff that works in the Pinnacle Grill share in the pooled tips. The reason they pool tips is good service starts with crew members you may never have the opportunity to meet, such as our highly trained kitchen staff. They also benefit from the gratuities included in your bill. To insure the efforts of those crew members also recognized, and to discourage solicitation of guests, dining and cabin stewards are required to turn in any tips they receive directly."

So, it appears the Pinnacle Grill staff is included in the automatic tip pool. It also appears that any extra tips given to Grill staff have to be turned in for reallocation and apportionment. The practical side suggests any cash given directly to a waiter will be pocketed, never to be seen or shared by other crew members.

Hope this helps.


I'm sorry, but we have been told differently about the extra tips given to our stewards...Did you send an e-mail or a letter to HAL...I personally would like to know what department & when you were givven this information.. Was this a person in authority and able to advise you when this policy became effective & do you have this in writing...

If what you say is true, then all the passengers who attended the disembarkation talk on the Prinsendam Amazon cruise in April were given incorrect information! :confused: Our CD, Peter Daems specifically stated that if a passenger leaves the $10.00 per day tip on the bill any extra given to our stewards were theirs to keep & do not have to be turned in to the tipping pool.. Also have a difficult time believing that Peter Daems would state this to 900 passengers if it were not true! Especially since it was recorded..

Happy cruising all...Betty

[Copper10-8]

If what you say is true, then all the passengers who attended the disembarkation talk on the Prinsendam Amazon cruise in April were given incorrect information! :confused: Our CD, Peter Daems specifically stated that if a passenger leaves the $10.00 per day tip on the bill any extra given to our stewards were theirs to keep & do not have to be turned in to the tipping pool.. Also have a difficult time believing that Peter Daems would state this to 900 passengers if it were not true! Especially since it was recorded..

Happy cruising all...Betty

He made that same statement a little more than two weeks ago on Prinsendam during his disembarkation talk!

[ekerr19]

Betty -

We have received the same information you have... it's been that way since the dawn of the auto-tip and I'm glad you posted it...

All this "other" information is just confusing the issue, imo - those of us who have (and continue) to cruise on HAL know differently.

We know a great many crew - we ALWAYS tip them extra - I know for a fact they are not "required" to turn it in....

All this misinformation is so disheartening... my first HAL cruise was in 1984 and we've been regular cruisers (2-3 per year) since 2000. I hate to think that I am THAT wrong...:confused:

[happy cruzer]

[quote=serendipity1499]I'm sorry, but we have been told differently about the extra tips given to our stewards...Did you send an e-mail or a letter to HAL...I personally would like to know what department & when you were givven this information.. Was this a person in authority and able to advise you when this policy became effective & do you have this in writing...

If what you say is true, then all the passengers who attended the disembarkation talk on the Prinsendam Amazon cruise in April were given incorrect information! :confused: Our CD, Peter Daems specifically stated that if a passenger leaves the $10.00 per day tip on the bill any extra given to our stewards were theirs to keep & do not have to be turned in to the tipping pool.. Also have a difficult time believing that Peter Daems would state this to 900 passengers if it were not true! Especially since it was recorded..

Happy cruising all...Betty[/quote)

Hi Betty and rfbob, I think you are saying the same thing. I think the cash tips are turned in and may be returned to the crewmember if the passenger that left the cash also auto tipped.

Someone asked where I got my strange ideas on the tip pool, well.... right here on CC from experienced CCer's. Here some fairly recent quotes that I found and a long thread on how the auto tip pool works. I think Betty contributed to some of these (thany you, Betty).

1)
those tips can be retained by the person you give them to. The only time the employees have to return tips to the pool is if you remove the auto-tip from your bill, but give cash separately to the DR stewards or cabin steward, then they are obliged to return that money to the pool. This is, of course, the honor system but I think these guys are pretty good about sticking to the rules (unlike some of us ).

2)
We were told on our recent cruise that all of those in the automatic tip group sign a contract that states that they agree to put any cash they receive directly from passengers into the tip pool to be divided among all of those in that pool. They did that to stop people from taking their tips off their shipboard account and maybe they would pay them out and maybe not. Or they would tip only those they happened to see. The wine steward and others who are not in the pool, you tip with cash and they keep it.

3)
We leave the $10. per day tip on our account but like to tip our Room Steward and Table Servers extra, usually.
I take along little Thank You notes and write them a note and we enclose the cash.
We were told to put our cabin number on the envelope. They have to turn in the envelopes and it is checked that we DID leave the $10. per day on our account....................THEN, they get the personal note and extra cash back.
If you've removed the tip from your account, the cash goes into the pool.
I hope that's true.................the notes you write help them in their advancements and make them feel good as well.
4)
Also I read a long discussion on the tip pool here:
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=347844&highlight=tip+pool

I'm not sure I was flamed but it sure felt like it. and the HAL board is usually so nice.

[serendipity1499]

[quote=serendipity1499]I'm sorry, but we have been told differently about the extra tips given to our stewards...Did you send an e-mail or a letter to HAL...I personally would like to know what department & when you were givven this information.. Was this a person in authority and able to advise you when this policy became effective & do you have this in writing...

If what you say is true, then all the passengers who attended the disembarkation talk on the Prinsendam Amazon cruise in April were given incorrect information! :confused: Our CD, Peter Daems specifically stated that if a passenger leaves the $10.00 per day tip on the bill any extra given to our stewards were theirs to keep & do not have to be turned in to the tipping pool.. Also have a difficult time believing that Peter Daems would state this to 900 passengers if it were not true! Especially since it was recorded..

Happy cruising all...Betty[/quote)

Hi Betty and rfbob, I think you are saying the same thing. I think the cash tips are turned in and may be returned to the crewmember if the passenger that left the cash also auto tipped.

Someone asked where I got my strange ideas on the tip pool, well.... right here on CC from experienced CCer's. Here some fairly recent quotes that I found and a long thread on how the auto tip pool works. I think Betty contributed to some of these (thany you, Betty).

1)
those tips can be retained by the person you give them to. The only time the employees have to return tips to the pool is if you remove the auto-tip from your bill, but give cash separately to the DR stewards or cabin steward, then they are obliged to return that money to the pool. This is, of course, the honor system but I think these guys are pretty good about sticking to the rules (unlike some of us ).

2)
We were told on our recent cruise that all of those in the automatic tip group sign a contract that states that they agree to put any cash they receive directly from passengers into the tip pool to be divided among all of those in that pool. They did that to stop people from taking their tips off their shipboard account and maybe they would pay them out and maybe not. Or they would tip only those they happened to see. The wine steward and others who are not in the pool, you tip with cash and they keep it.

3)
We leave the $10. per day tip on our account but like to tip our Room Steward and Table Servers extra, usually.
I take along little Thank You notes and write them a note and we enclose the cash.
We were told to put our cabin number on the envelope. They have to turn in the envelopes and it is checked that we DID leave the $10. per day on our account....................THEN, they get the personal note and extra cash back.
If you've removed the tip from your account, the cash goes into the pool.
I hope that's true.................the notes you write help them in their advancements and make them feel good as well.
4)
Also I read a long discussion on the tip pool here:
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=347844&highlight=tip+pool

I'm not sure I was flamed but it sure felt like it. and the HAL board is usually so nice.

We are NOT saying the same thing..Fist of all we were discussing PRE-TIPPING on that thread & I did contribute my thoughts to it..I never said that the stewards had to turn the extra tip into the pool..

My exact words were: "My guess is they have to report your PRE-TIP but they would but he most definitely would be permitted to keep it if you leave the $10.00 per day per Psgr. on your account..To quote my Post No. 42..
Quote:
Originally Posted by sail7seas
Twinkletoes........

HAL agrees with you and they have set up the system for exactly that to happen.

IF YOU LEAVE YOUR AUTOMATIC TIP IN PLACE ----you DO NOT have it removed from your account-----

THEN any and all additional tips you give to anyone on the ship are theirs to keep. They do not have to pool it.

ONLY when someone removes the automatic tip from their account are those tips shared. ONLY then does a steward have to turn into the pool funds (tips) he received directly from a passenger.



Sail is absolutely correct!..Any extra tip you give to your stewards & Bar servers are kept by them as long as you keep the $10.00 auto tip in place. This policy has been explained to psgrs. many times by the CD on board, but it was the most clearly explained by Peter Daems (sp) the CD on board the "Prinsendam" last week..My guess is that your room steward must report your pre-tip, but he most definitely would be permitted to keep it if you leave the $10.00 per day per Psgr. on your account..

Unquote

Sorry for the long post folks..It looks to me that people might think that one of the statements in the above post was mine & I would like to clarify this...Betty
Last edited by serendipity1499 : May 30th, 2006 at 06:41 PM

[happy cruzer]

I think the process is something like
1) you have an auto tip in place that you can remove later if you like
2) sometime in the cruise you do a cash tip
3) the cash tip is turned in by the employee (the employee probably does not know if the auto tip is in place or will be in place at the end of your cruise)
4) each passenger's account is reviewed by a manager,
if the person left auto tip in place the cash is returned to the crew member
If the auto tip is not in place, the cash is put into the tip pool and the the entire tip pool is distributed to the employees.

If it's not done something like that then I can't figure out how cash ever gets put in the pool and we are told numberous places that cash does get into the pool from passengers who do not auto tip. So I think we might be arguing about the cash being turned and then returned later? I don't know, I think I understand how it works and maybe just am horrible at communicating. Lesson learned.

[SnorkelBear]

Happy,

Let it go. You are needed over at the Ice Bucket/Adjustable table controversy. You have not chimed in over at Hor'ds thread either. You gotta keep your head in the game.:)

[serendipity1499]

Happy cruizer...Yes you & I are saying the same thing..You are expressing yourself very well...

Please don't consider this flaming..But I agree with ekerr who finds it incomprehensible that any HAL crew (fellow countrymen) would report someone who perhaps kept something that wasn't for them..These are very young people..Think what their fellow crew member's would do to someone who is considered a "Rat"...It's so much like some of the teenage culture today..(Please don't flame me for that)

Many of us on this board have cruised HAL extensivly..Sail7Seas and her DH were chosen by HAL to be the "Mariner Representatives" when the New Noordam was launched..She knows more of HAL's top Management (Captains, Hotel Mgrs., CD's etc.) than most Cruise Critic Members ..She was featured in the latest Hal Mariner Magazine... They know her real name (as we all do)...Why in heavens name would she leave herself open for criticism by HAL & her fellow Mariners, by giving us the incorrect tipping information? If anyone would have the correct information, she would...

You might not believe me because you don't know me, but I would think people would believe our Mariner Rep..

I'm still questioning frbob's statement that he was told by Hal..
Quote " Yes, the staff that works in the Pinnacle Grill share in the pooled tips. The reason they pool tips is good service starts with crew members you may never have the opportunity to meet, such as our highly trained kitchen staff. They also benefit from the gratuities included in your bill. To insure the efforts of those crew members also recognized, and to discourage solicitation of guests, dining and cabin stewards are required to turn in any tips they receive directly."

As I and others have mentioned Peter Daems on the Prinsendam specifically told us in the disembarkation talk that if we leave the $10.00 per day on the bill the stewards are permitted to keep the extra..However Frbob's last sentence disputes this..I'm quoting a known HAL person & frbob is saying HAL told him this.. Hal employes thousands of people..My question is who in HAL stated this...I still find this last statement hard to believe.:confused: ..

Happy cruising all.:) .Betty

[stanford's girl]

But to us, a tip is to be earned, not just expected :)
I have been in the restaurant business for over 25 years and Ziggy hit the nail right on the head!! :)

[RuthC]

Hal employes thousands of people..My question is who in HAL stated this...I still find this last statement hard to believe.
You're bringing up a recent thread in which someone posted what turned out to be hearsay from a HAL employee who was not in a postion to know. (Of course, we didn't know it was hearsay or that the HAL employee didn't know until much, much later in the thread.)

The position given at the disembarkation talk on each and every cruise since the service charge was implimented is that if the $10 pp/pd is left in place then any cash gratuities given may be retained by the recipient. AFAIK there has never been anything from a HAL person who is in a position to know that that is not the case.

[happy cruzer]

Happy,

Let it go. You are needed over at the Ice Bucket/Adjustable table controversy. You have not chimed in over at Hor'ds thread either. You gotta keep your head in the game.:)

I feel better. It's nice to be needed.

Ruth, you are so right. I stepped into the same mess that is in thread
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=373403&highlight=tip+cash

that never got resolved. I thought that it was closed a bit abruptly.

thanks all, now to the weightly matter of ice buckets, I think I will just lurk on that one, it's a bit scarey:)

[hammybee]

Happy,

Let it go. You are needed over at the Ice Bucket/Adjustable table controversy. You have not chimed in over at Hor'ds thread either. You gotta keep your head in the game.:)

I am teary-eyed and may need Depends well before my time.

[dakrewser]

I think the process is something like
1) you have an auto tip in place that you can remove later if you like
2) sometime in the cruise you do a cash tip
3) the cash tip is turned in by the employee (the employee probably does not know if the auto tip is in place or will be in place at the end of your cruise)
4) each passenger's account is reviewed by a manager,
if the person left auto tip in place the cash is returned to the crew member
If the auto tip is not in place, the cash is put into the tip pool and the the entire tip pool is distributed to the employees.

If it's not done something like that then I can't figure out how cash ever gets put in the pool and we are told numberous places that cash does get into the pool from passengers who do not auto tip. So I think we might be arguing about the cash being turned and then returned later? I don't know, I think I understand how it works and maybe just am horrible at communicating. Lesson learned.

No, you've got it right. Evidently others were misreading what you wrote.

[frbob]

I'm sorry, but we have been told differently about the extra tips given to our stewards...Did you send an e-mail or a letter to HAL...I personally would like to know what department & when you were givven this information.. Was this a person in authority and able to advise you when this policy became effective & do you have this in writing...

If what you say is true, then all the passengers who attended the disembarkation talk on the Prinsendam Amazon cruise in April were given incorrect information! :confused: Our CD, Peter Daems specifically stated that if a passenger leaves the $10.00 per day tip on the bill any extra given to our stewards were theirs to keep & do not have to be turned in to the tipping pool.. Also have a difficult time believing that Peter Daems would state this to 900 passengers if it were not true! Especially since it was recorded..

Happy cruising all...Betty

Betty, the EMAIL that I quoted verbatim came from HAL's Customer Service Department in Seattle on August 28, 2006. If this conflicts with what you believe you were told there is nothing I can do about that. HAL's tipping policy can be confusing if one accepts opinions rather than facts. Not withstanding, this thread concerns tipping in the Pinnacle Grill and that is what my post attempted to clarify. I'm sorry if it doesn't resolve every one's confusion. My suggestion is do what you want to do, Create your own "policy". And please don't shoot the messenger! :):):)

[bardgal]

Again, no clue how it works on HAL, but on Princess, everyone turns in the extra tips into the pool - the main reason is the more $$ you turn in, the more chance for advancement/recognition/promotion there is. I also think I remember hearing those crew members whose autotip is left in place gets a percentage to all of the extra tips back.

[diboja]

Odd, how an innocent question about tipping can turn into a "Novel"

Bottom line (to me) is that I have paid good bucks for the cruise - I am paying for the Auto tipping - if the service is beyond what I expect I will provide an additional tip - otherwise no!

Let your heart be your guide (along with common sense) as this is a personal issue and who cares what Tom, Dick, Harry or HAL say......

[ronvoell]

I asked the Pinnacle Grill maitre d' last year if the waiters share in the tips charged to our cabin. He said they do. I understood it was a small amount but charged against all the passangers; not just the folks they serve. We always leave an extra tip for good service.

[Opinions]

I think the process is something like
1) you have an auto tip in place that you can remove later if you like
2) sometime in the cruise you do a cash tip
3) the cash tip is turned in by the employee (the employee probably does not know if the auto tip is in place or will be in place at the end of your cruise)
4) each passenger's account is reviewed by a manager,
if the person left auto tip in place the cash is returned to the crew member
If the auto tip is not in place, the cash is put into the tip pool and the the entire tip pool is distributed to the employees.



Sounds right to me...Excellent post!

[whogo]

"A gratuity of $10 per guest per day for dining and stateroom services will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis." (From HAL's planning and advice. http://*******.com/omkub)

That is enough for me. I would not tip extra for the pinnacle grill. I will not tip extra for the Lido. I am not tipping the tender crew, the painters, the shop staff, or the cooks. I am not going to concern myself with how HAL divies up the tips. I am not going to worry that any employees or contractors are unfairly paid. I am going to enjoy my cruise.

[SnorkelBear]

Whogo,

Touche. I may do something diffrent, but at least we stand together in knowing what we are going to do, and why we are okay with that.

Now, DUCK!

[Copper10-8]

Whogo,

Touche. I may do something diffrent, but at least we stand together in knowing what we are going to do, and why we are okay with that.

Now, DUCK!

No need to duck or goose - tipping is a personal decision! :cool:

[cruisnfool]

First let me say I am taking my first HAL cruise.

I am amazed that it took 9 pages to answer a question about tipping in the PG.

This is what I have learned from this post.

Nobody is SURE ifthe $20pp charge is the tip!
Many HALers think the charge is not a tip
Why would HAL be any differant than other lines.
We have eaten in all the specialities resturants on others and told that the extra charge is the tip because those waiters are not included in your daily tips.
This kind of assumption will set up confusion.

I believe in tipping extra if extra is indicated. I will go to the PG with extra money and ifthe service is abouve and beyond the dining room I will tip extra, if same I will not.

I am not sure what the nationality of pooling of tips matters.

[catl331]

$10 per person sounds good. On our Westerdam Baltic cruise the wait staff was not very friendly not Indonesian.

[jtl513]

I tip for service that I "like". Sometimes that means exceptional service by the 'stiff' Eastern European servers we've had in PG, sometimes it means average service by more friendly servers. Accordingly, in PG I once left $10 pp and once I left $5 pp. (As someone else said above, I can't quite bring myself to leave $0, since their base wage is undoubtedly not great, and everyone can have a bad day once in a while!) I think the main dining room staff works much harder than PG staff and am usually much more inclined to give them an addition to the Autotip.

Slightly off topic: I honestly haven't read everything in this 9-page thread, but in case no one has mentioned it, the PG has or soon will be (not sure of date) going up to $30 pp. Also, we've found that not many people realize that the PG is open for lunch on sea days for $10 pp. Not sure if that is going up too, but my guess is yes.

[jtl513]

If the auto tip is not in place, the cash is put into the tip pool and the the entire tip pool is distributed to the employees.

If it's not done something like that then I can't figure out how cash ever gets put in the pool and we are told numberous places that cash does get into the pool from passengers who do not auto tip. So I think we might be arguing about the cash being turned and then returned later? I don't know, I think I understand how it works and maybe just am horrible at communicating. Lesson learned.

Someplace on these boards I read that near the end of the cruise every cabin/dining room steward gets a list of pax who have opted out of the Autotip, and the stewards are then "honor bound" to turn in any cash received ONLY from those people. Not sure how how it works with other staff who may only serve you a drink or three during the whole cruise and don't really know your name well.