Misrepresentation ?

[cruisen cracker]

I booked a cruise recently on the Amsterdam with a large, well known internet cruise agency. I responed to their ad for a "ocvw" cabin at a certain rate. I have now learned that I have a "guar" for a HH catagory cabin, according to the HAL website. Also, according to the HAL website, all HH cabins on the Amsterdam are fully obstructed view. As "ocvw" is standard cruise industry language for "oceanview", do I have a case with my travel agent for misrepresentation? Are they obligated to make sure that the cabin I am assigned does in fact have an oceanview, and if so any suggestions on how I handle it?

[duckman715]

Even though fully obstructed, such cabins are usually listed as ocean view. Not sure why except they have a window. Without going into a more detailed search of the decks and cabin descriptions it is often difficult to tell just from the cabin / rate listings if they are obstructed or not.
But to your point - did the ad indicate the cabin was in a certain category? if not then you might have no recourse if they booked you in an HH w/ obstructed view.
Was the ad for a guarantee or something more specific?
It would certainly do no harm to call the TA and request a non obstructed view. If not satisfied you might have to cancel and rebook.
It is also possible that there was a miscommunication between HAL and the TA. I had this happen on my upcoming Maasdam cruise. The cabin shown on HAL website for us was different from the one shown on the TA's confirmation letter. We are traveling with another couple and requested two specific and adjoining cabins. Ours was a good walk away on the other side of the ship. Took some doing and several calls to the TA but it eventually got worked out. Still not sure who messed up.

[ocngypz]

Yes, HAL's oceanview guarantee starts at Cat HH which is obstructed.

No, you don't have a case with the agent. You did an online booking.

Next time use a Live Agent who will point out to you that you could get an obstructed view cabin, and would you rather pay the rate for a Cat F unobstructed view??

I only recommend online bookings for people who know their ships inside and out and understand guarantees.

[wrp96]

The basic category Oceanview simply means the room has a window, which is satisfied even if the view is fully obstructed.

[kryos]

Even though fully obstructed, such cabins are usually listed as ocean view. Not sure why except they have a window.
Yeah, but there's obstructed and then there's OBSTRUCTED. Some ocean views are only partially obstructed. Yes, you have an ocean view ... but perhaps have a lifeboat outside the window that obstructs only the top half of the view.

I don't think it's necessarily truth in advertising if the OP is going to be put into a cabin where while, yes, she has a window ... she can only get a glimpse of the sea through it if she stands on the bed, leans waaaaay over and only then can catch but a fleeting glimpse of a small slice of ocean.

That, to me, is not getting what is advertised.

I'd argue the point with the TA ... that's for sure.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[duckman715]

Kryos, I agree completely with you. I think it is misleading when an obstructed view is not clearly stated as such in the large print. Some on line TA sites do indicate this but most don't. I think that's rude to say the least and downright deceptive - especially to new cruisers who do not have the (hard earned) experience to dig into the deck plans and other sources which can clear the matter. They should at leat say, something like; "Lifeboat View", Railing View", "Fuhgedaboutit View", "You Kidding Me View"
Bill

[Jemima]

If you have an HH guarantee you might end up with that, but most likely you'll end up with a slightly higher category.
The couple of times we've had that, it has been emphasized that HH is fully obstructed.

[RedmondCruiser]

Friends purchased an inside room for 4 adults. Granted they were being cheap but the TA called it an INSIDE SUITE - with plenty of room. I tried my best to tell them that there were no inside suites and four adults in a room was waaaay to crowded. They did'nt listen and they came back looking for a new TA.

[whogo]

I just stayed in a room that was described as a one room suite. It is another criminal misuse of the English language.

[newmexicoNita]

You probably have no gripe because as mentioned "outside" means exactly that: should you be upset? you bet. I am not here to blast online companies, but too often this is the type of service and counciling you get. I will say one thing: once we had an obstucted view cabin and it isn't the end of the world. It still beats inside as far as I am concerned. Now, you have a guarantee so cross your fingers you will get a really great upgrade. When are you sailing? We are doing the Amsterdam in November as well.

Redmondcruiser: your friends were truely misled. I would have screamed like crazy.....NMNita

[DD]

Did you book it yourself online or did you talk to a person? If you talked to a person, I believe he/she had an obligation to tell you. If you did it yourself without human intervention, well, it's your responsibility then.

I ALWAYS disclose to people when there is an obstruction or, if they're in a GTY on a ship where they could be "upgraded" to an obstructed view (like on the Norwegian Dream), I disclose it. I also document that I've disclosed it and even go so far as to specify which pax I advised.

[JimVrhovac]

We are seasoned travelers and learned years ago to select your TA in one of two ways:

1. Face to face interview and check out the promises.

2. Get referrals or recommendations from someone who has traveled a lot.

You pay a little more when you deal with a TA but if it saves onebad cruise it is well wortyh the extra money.


Good luck on future booings and cruises. If you want to know who our TA is drop me an email and will give you her numbers or my cell phone number so Ican tell you about her...

Jim & Ruth

[hammybee]

Yes, HAL's oceanview guarantee starts at Cat HH which is obstructed.

No, you don't have a case with the agent. You did an online booking.

Next time use a Live Agent who will point out to you that you could get an obstructed view cabin, and would you rather pay the rate for a Cat F unobstructed view??

I only recommend online bookings for people who know their ships inside and out and understand guarantees.

I agree completely. When one books a generic outside cabin, one accepts that they may get the lowest category available which is often why the price is so darn good. Given you have a guarantee, you have a shot at doing better. All HAL docs make it clear that outside also includes those cabins with an obstucted view. You have nothing to lose by asking for a different category but I suspect you will pay more for it. And yeah, this is the dark side to online booking.

[Navy_Chief]

It was burried in the fine print someplace I'm sure. We've had GTY before and never wound uo in the HH, we wound up in an E.

[DD]

We are seasoned travelers and learned years ago to select your TA in one of two ways:

1. Face to face interview and check out the promises.

2. Get referrals or recommendations from someone who has traveled a lot.

You pay a little more when you deal with a TA but if it saves onebad cruise it is well wortyh the extra money.


Good luck on future booings and cruises. If you want to know who our TA is drop me an email and will give you her numbers or my cell phone number so Ican tell you about her...

Jim & Ruth

That's a misconception that you pay more to use a TA. Over the last few weeks, I've taken over a number of reservations that were made directly with the cruiselines and then transfered to me. In each and every case, I've saved the client hundreds of dollars and was able to get him/her some nice extra perks (Pinnacle Grill dinner, bottles of wine, etc).

[hammybee]

You pay a little more when you deal with a TA but if it saves onebad cruise it is well wortyh the extra money. Jim & Ruth

I am not sure what you meant by this. I am thinking that you mean one might pay more dealing with a neighborhood TA than an online TA. This may or may not be true, depending upon who the TA is and what networks they participate in. I do however, think the cruise business is trending the same way as air travel and lodging. By this I mean, there is a premium when one wants or needs human interaction or a physical document.

As with most online bargains, the onus of research is transfered to the consumer.

[Tinknock50]

I booked a cruise recently on the Amsterdam with a large, well known internet cruise agency. I responed to their ad for a "ocvw" cabin at a certain rate. I have now learned that I have a "guar" for a HH catagory cabin, according to the HAL website. Also, according to the HAL website, all HH cabins on the Amsterdam are fully obstructed view. As "ocvw" is standard cruise industry language for "oceanview", do I have a case with my travel agent for misrepresentation? Are they obligated to make sure that the cabin I am assigned does in fact have an oceanview, and if so any suggestions on how I handle it?

I understand your concern about an HH, but any time I have booked a "guarantee" , I have never remained in that category and was upgraded to very good outside cabins. Of course, there is always the possibility you will remain there. I have studied HH cabins and have one booked on the Zaandam. They are on Lower Promenade deck, so have easy access to the outdoors....really good locations if sometimes fully obstructed.

I would also ask if you can go up to a category you would like. H and G have portholes, so if you want an unobstructed window, FF and up have them.

My favorite online TA always spells out which cabins are obstructed.

Almost forgot to mention....Zaandam, Volendam, and Amsterdam are virtually identical on all the lower decks, so same situation applies to all.

[hammybee]

I have studied HH cabins and have one booked on the Zaandam. They are on Lower Promenade deck, so have easy access to the outdoors....really good locations if sometimes fully obstructed.

I agree. These are the best bang for the $, assuming you want some outside light in the cabin because it's location,locaton,location.

[Joanelle]

It was on a different cruiseline, but my "unobstructed" cabin was in the front of the ship, with a porthole. The porthole was more like a four foot long tunnel, out of which you could see only whether it was day or night. In between the porthole and the exterior of the ship, was the anchor chain. How do I know? Every morning when we docked we were awoken by the sound of that chain scraping against the wall of our cabin.

I learned quite a lesson - no one to blame but myself. I still use online TA's, but only when I research carefully and choose the cabin number myself.

[AWED23]

That's a misconception that you pay more to use a TA. Over the last few weeks, I've taken over a number of reservations that were made directly with the cruiselines and then transfered to me. In each and every case, I've saved the client hundreds of dollars and was able to get him/her some nice extra perks (Pinnacle Grill dinner, bottles of wine, etc).After 46 cruises and 16 tours I still use a real live agent!!!...And as you have said...It has not cost me money...It has saved me money plus perks...Pinnacle dinner, Virtuoso tours, on board TA escort....Well said DD !!!!!!

[kryos]

They should at leat say, something like; "Lifeboat View", Railing View", "Fuhgedaboutit View", "You Kidding Me View"
Bill
LOL ... exactly. People should know what they're buying.

Frankly, before I opted for one of those "You're Kidding Me" views ... I'd just as soon save the money and book an inside cabin. After all, that would pretty much afford me the same view, don't you think? :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Friends purchased an inside room for 4 adults. Granted they were being cheap but the TA called it an INSIDE SUITE - with plenty of room. I tried my best to tell them that there were no inside suites and four adults in a room was waaaay to crowded. They did'nt listen and they came back looking for a new TA.
I'd have come back looking to kill my TA. :)

Four people squeezed into an inside cabin? Unless two of them are young children, I can't even imagine it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[jagsfan]

One more thing about choosing a TA.....look for a CTC and ACC. CTC means
the TA is dedicated to her business and has spent a lot of time and money
to earn the designation. She's a Certified Travel Counselor. The ACC is an
Accredited Cruise Counselor and has not only sailed on many different lines,
but has studied all of them. The MCC is even better.....more cruises, more
studies. I am only a CTC and ACC and plan to put them on my headstone. We are seasoned travelers and learned years ago to select your TA in one of two ways:

1. Face to face interview and check out the promises.

2. Get referrals or recommendations from someone who has traveled a lot.

You pay a little more when you deal with a TA but if it saves onebad cruise it is well wortyh the extra money.


Good luck on future booings and cruises. If you want to know who our TA is drop me an email and will give you her numbers or my cell phone number so Ican tell you about her...

Jim & Ruth

[DougandEric]

Next time use a Live Agent who will point out to you that you could get an obstructed view cabin, and would you rather pay the rate for a Cat F unobstructed view??

Great advise. We also booked an HH guarantee on the Ryndam knowing full and well we may end up with an HH. We hoped for an upgrade and did get it to a DD partial seaview (right next to an HH by the way!). We had a DD on Rotterdam and loved it - not much obstruction at all. My TA did a conference call with HAL and myself when HAL pointed out it was a fully obstructed view. I knew that and was OK with that. You should always get in WRITING exactly what you're buying!

[newmexicoNita]

I booked a cruise recently on the Amsterdam with a large, well known internet cruise agency. I responed to their ad for a "ocvw" cabin at a certain rate. I have now learned that I have a "guar" for a HH catagory cabin, according to the HAL website. Also, according to the HAL website, all HH cabins on the Amsterdam are fully obstructed view. As "ocvw" is standard cruise industry language for "oceanview", do I have a case with my travel agent for misrepresentation? Are they obligated to make sure that the cabin I am assigned does in fact have an oceanview, and if so any suggestions on how I handle it?actually it isn't a misrepresentation as obstructed views are still considered ocean view, but you certainly were misled. Another reason to watch out of internet companies. You should have been informed HH is obstructed. Now, you can only hope your cabin will be an upgrade and you will be able to see everything you want. Is it too late to cancel and go with another agent? If final payment has been made, pray a lot. NMnita

[jtl513]

We also booked an HH guarantee on the Ryndam knowing full and well we may end up with an HH. We hoped for an upgrade and did get it to a DD partial seaview

Has any reader ever booked an HH GTY and ended up being upgraded to a G or H with just the dual portholes?

I booked not on-line, but on the phone directly with a HAL Travel Consultant and told him that I would be happy with anything outside, even the HH, except the G or H portholes. Unfortunately, nothing was put in writing.

What chance would I have to downgrade back to the HH if assigned a G or H? And who should I talk to about that, the original Travel Consultant?

My wife says I'm worrying about this too much!! :D

[BumperII]

We alway book inside guarantee. That is primarily due to the fact that we are independently poor. :D Booking inside guarantees allows us to cruise five or six times a year instead of two. The truth of the matter is that an inside cabin is a lot like every other inside cabin, and the different catagories of inside cabins is mostly marketing strategy. So the upgrades really aren't all that important. Just let me on the ship, I'll sleep on the sofa or the floor if I have to.

We just checked our on line immigration form this morning and found out that our cabin number for the October 28 Maasdam has been assigned. And we were upgraded again!!!!:) This will be our fourth HAL cruise, and the upgrade fairy has visited us all four times. She is batting a thousand.

If we ever do receive an assignment that can't live with, we have decided that we will just pick up the phone and call the TA and pay for the upgrade we want. We might have to forego a helicopter or flight seeing excursion, but we will still be able to get the trip within our budget.

Sooner or later, we expect to get stuck with a cabin we don't like, and we will actually get what we paid for. But so far, it seems to me that even the most ecomical cabins on a HAL ship are still pretty nice.:)

[Randyk47]

I don't think it was either misreprentation or misleading, at least not in the sense that the TA stepped out of line from commonly used designations. It does point out one of the problems with using an on-line TA. Now we're big users and advocates of on-line agencies but we know exactly what we want and use the agency only for booking a specific cabin at the lowest possible cost. That's all we need or want from an TA. On the other hand, look around this board you'll see that even brick and mortar TA's make mistakes or give out bad information. Sure, there are many, many great TA's out there and if you have one then that's even better. This board is a great place to learn about cruising and potentially avoid bad information from any TA be they on-line or face-to-face.

[Roz]

Well stated, Randy.

Bumper, I know what it's like to be "independently poor". I agree, those guarantees are what allow me to cruise once a year instead of every other year, especially since I pay a single supplment.

Roz