Will You Swim with the Stingrays?

[sail7seas]

After hearing about the tragic death of crocodile hunter/environmentalist Steve Irwin in Australia, will you still consider doing the "Swim with the Stingray" Tours?

He received a fatal stingray sting while filming a documentary.

Even with doctors aboard his boat, they could not save him.

[Randyk47]

From the news this morning I gathered this was one of the "giant" or very large stringrays, not the smaller ones we're used to at the various "stringray cities". Sounds like it was a piercing of the heart more than just getting "stung". I don't think this would stop us from doing a similar tour again as it was one of the best ones we've been on. Things happen unfortunately but more folks are injuried taking bus tours so all excursions have some kind of risk I guess.

[jhannah]

What a sad thing. Stingray strikes are seldom fatal. In this case, the long barb reportedly passed through his ribcage and into his heart.

I never had a desire to swim with the rays, so I don't believe I would swim with them. I'm sure these tours will drop like a lead balloon for a while.

[Mountainveiw]

Yes I believe I will. From all reports I have just read, the stingray was on the defensive for sharks. Infront of the ray was a camera man and Steve was swimming above him. The ray was just acting on instinct and possibly felt threatened. I admire all that Steve Irwin has done and have enjoyed watching his TV shows. I hope this does not send a fear frenzy against Stingrays throughout the world. This ray probably had very little human contact, unlike the rays on the tours that are around humans all the time.

[Lynndpi]

I wasn't overly comfortable the first time I did the swim but I definately would do it again! This was one of the highlights of our trip with our kids a few years ago. We still laugh about how curious the rays are. My daughter had one swim up her body just to check out the camera up close. She just stood very still and after it checked her out it swam away. I agree that the rays we experience on the tours have a lot of human exposure and are probably less likely to be defensive unless they are stepped on.
So very sad to hear of Steve Irwin's untimely passing. Our thoughts and prayers are with his wife and children.

[DD]

I've done it numerous times and I've always felt quite safe. Of course, I've also done several shark snorkels and dives so perhaps I'm not the best one to ask.

I can't for the life of me figure out how he died from this. Most stingrays have a small barb on their tail. That is the only part that can injure a human. They don't, as far as I know, have the ability to aim that barb. Obviously they can swing their tail around (I don't even know if technically it would be called a tail) and the barb is on the top of it so wherever the tail goes, the barb goes. But how on earth did it hit him in just the right spot on his chest and pierce that deep.

I wonder if the previous poster is correct in that it is some giant-type sting ray. Normally these barbs are like an inch or two long, certainly long enough to give you a nasty cut but not enough to pierce a chest cavity.

Stingrays are normally like overly affectionate puppies. They follow you around, they like to rub against your legs. They're not agressive at all. This just seems to be one very bizarre case of "time and unforseen occurrence befal(ling)" Steve. What a tragedy.

[hammybee]

It's the stingray's spine, not the tail, that can puncture a person's chest/heart.

The arching of the tail is what, under extreme circumstances, can drive the spine into the intruder.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Did it in the past and will do it in the future.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I too found this very tragic and sad. I also read it was done by one of the very large breeds of Sting Rays. In regards to be afraid of swimming with the Sting Rays would I do this excursion. YES, Most definitely and I have:) First off this was in the Great Barrier Reef, in very deep waters and man is seldom seen by these creatures. This was a totally different type of Sting Ray than we encounter in the Caribbean waters at Half Moon Cay or Grand Cayman. The Rays at Grand Cayman have become very acustom to the almost daily feedings by us humans:D They return daily to be fed and played with. Could an accident happen, Most definitely but the situation is totally different and with all excurisons of any kind things can happen. But looking at the numbers that flock to GC to swim with the Rays how many accidents do you really hear about? It would definitely not stop me from doing it again. Steve Irwin's death is a sad loss to Australians and to the world's environmentalists and those that love wild life of any kind.

[newmexicoNita]

I think the Sting Rays we encounter on our tours are a little different than what Steve came in contact with. The ones we see are small, are almost tame and trained to respond to us. At least the two times we have swam with them, that was our experience. NMnita

[AZjohn]

After hearing about the tragic death of crocodile hunter/environmentalist Steve Irwin in Australia, will you still consider doing the "Swim with the Stingray" Tours?

To answer the question, no I would not swim with the Stingray. I will stick to swimming with the dolphins this year..;)
John

[lougee1043]

an unfortunate accident --swam with them once before and would not have a problem swimming with them again

[NoNoNanette]

We swam with them in Bora Bora years ago. They were like affectionate puppies, scrambling for attention. Delightful! I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.:)

[spcl4cs_gal]

In answer to your question, Sail....ABSOLUTELY! I was rather hesitant about being anywhere close to a ray before my swim with them at Grand Cayman, but seeing how docile and gentle they were, I would have no second thoughts about doing the excursion again. I don't think stingrays have very much in their arsenal to protect them against sharks other than that barb and their ability to speed along in the water. Our guide showed us the underside of one of the rays where the skin had been shredded by a shark...fortunately that ray escaped with its life. When people agree to "swim" with them and feed them, they just need to be careful about where they are walking. Females tend to swim close to the surface as long as there is squid to be had but the males I saw just cruised along the bottom of the sand bar and they were constantly underfoot.

What happened to Irwin was a freak accident and my thoughts go out to his family.

[NoNoNanette]

Steve Irwin's freak death filmed

Ian Gerard and Tony Koch September 05, 2006

FOOTAGE of Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin being fatally attacked by a stingray on the Great Barrier Reef has been handed to Queensland police as fans worldwide come to grips with the "freak" death.

Irwin, 44, was killed almost instantly when the stingray stabbed him in the heart with its poisonous 20cm barb as he snorkelled off Port Douglas, in north Queensland, yesterday morning.
His American-born wife, Terri, was trekking in Tasmania's Cradle Mountain and Lake St Clair National Park when the news broke of her husband's death and was last night being raced back to Queensland with her two children Bindi, 8, and Bob, 2.
"The footage shows him swimming in the water, the ray stopped and turned and that was it," said boatowner Peter West, who viewed the footage afterwards.
"There was no blood in the water, it was not that obvious ... something happened with this animal that made it rear and he was at the wrong position at the wrong time and if it hit him anywhere else we would not be talking about a fatality."
Irwin was shooting a documentary on dangerous marine life, in shallow water at Batt Reef, about 32 nautical miles offshore, at about 11am.
Tributes poured in from around the world for Irwin, a renowned environmentalist who was estimated to be earning more than $4million a year from his Queensland reptile park, Australia Zoo.
Footage of the attack shows Irwin swimming above a 2.5m stingray before it turns on him and sends a poisonous barb through his heart.
Irwin was pulled from the water by a cameraman and a crewman, put on an inflatable tender and taken to a support boat about 500m away.
Crewmembers say he was barely conscious in the minutes after the sting and died as his production team rushed him to his vessel, Croc One, and to a nearby island for emergency treatment.
A charter dive boat crew desperately tried to revive him on the beach, but were unsuccessful and he was pronounced dead shortly afterwards by Queensland Rescue Service officers, who had flown to the area by helicopter.
Irwin's body was last night flown to Cairns for a post-mortem examination as police seized all available evidence and interviewed witnesses in order to prepare a report for the Coroner.
A coronial inquest is expected.
Producer, director and life-long friend John Stainton yesterday said Irwin did not provoke the stingray and was simply swimming above it when he was attacked.
"He came over the top of a stingray and the stingray barb went up and into his chest and into his heart," Stainton said.
"It's likely that he possibly died instantly when the barb hit him, and I hope he felt no pain."
One of Irwin's contemporaries, internationally known cameraman and spearfisherman Ben Cropp, was in his own boat off Port Douglas when Irwin was killed.
"I have just spoken to a cameraman friend who was there and has seen the footage," Mr Cropp told The Australian last night.
"He was up in the shallow water, probably 1.5m to 2m deep, following a bull ray which was about a metre across the body - probably weighing about 100kg, and it had quite a large spine.
"The cameraman was filming in the water."
Mr Cropp said the stingray was spooked and went into defensive mood.
"It probably felt threatened because Steve was alongside and there was the cameraman ahead, and it felt there was danger and it baulked.
"It stopped and went into a defensive mode and swung its tail with the spike.
"Steve unfortunately was in a bad position and copped it.
"I have had that happen to me, and I can visualise it - when a ray goes into defensive, you get out of the way.
"Steve was so close he could not get away, so if you can imagine it - being right beside the ray and it swinging its spine upwards from underneath Steve - and it hit him.
"I have seen that sort of reaction with rays - with their tail breaking the water, such is the force."
Internationally renowned jellyfish sting expert Jamie Seymour was on board Irwin's boat at the time.
Irwin had decided yesterday morning to shoot a segment of film on stingrays for a new television program that will be hosted by his daughter, Bindi.
Surf Lifesavers national marine stinger adviser Lisa-Ann Gershwin said there had only been 17 fatal stingray attacks worldwide.
"I think it's just an extraordinary freak accident that has happened to his heart," she said. "A lot of people will be afraid by this, but they need to keep in mind that this was a freak accident, it was a terrible tragedy but it is not common."
Dr Gershwin said stingray stings to the legs or arms were common and, while painful, were not normally considered dangerous. She said there were many different types of stingrays, with barbs on their tails up to 30cm long, and they poisoned victims with a range of toxins.
Mr West said the barb was like a "very rough knife" and while fatal stingray stings had been known to occur, filming and swimming alongside the animal was commonplace among marine filmmakers.
Mr Cropp said he was told that the strike was "close to the heart and Steve had a cardiac arrest".
"At first they treated him as being wounded, but he didn't survive unfortunately," he said.
"The second boat in attendance raced in to give assistance and they radioed for help.
"They went into Low Isle and met the chopper which took Steve's body out."
In September 2004, Mr Cropp was attacked by a tiger shark on Bott Reef. "The rays in Australia and particularly in the north are not like those on the Cayman Islands, which are very quiet and allow people to ride on their backs," he said.
"At this time of the year they are on the lookout for tiger sharks and are very frisky.
"They are not aggressive. In fact they are very timid, but they defend themselves by throwing their tail spine upwards, and there is a spike on the tip about eight inches long which they can use like a dagger."



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20355112-601,00.html

[agrigar]

I have & will again. It is sad about Steve Irwin but you take precautions. If you follow the instructions & don't put weight on their back, you are fine. I'm curious as to what happened, something had to frighten the ray for it to attack, I'm sure it was completely different than the swimming with the stingrays in stingray city.

[RuthC]

Now that I understand that there are different types of stingrays, and that those we see are somewhat used to human visitors, yes I would swim with them again. It was the highlight of my Western Caribbean cruise.

But I'm not yet sure I would take one of my grandgirls for the swim. I'm a lot more careful about what I let them do when I'm in charge.

[HeatherInFlorida]

We have and we won't again. But we wouldn't have anyway. I was so shocked and horrified this morning when I turned on the TV. Such a young man and so loved by his children. Just a horrible accident. And of course the actual reason he died is the stinger went through his heart. The stingray had to be frightened because they are generally docile and passive.

If I never had swum with them, this accident definitely would stop me. I'm not a risk taker. They said there have only been 17 deaths from stingrays, but since it's not something I have to do, I won't do it.

While it might be quite fun to do with just a few people, I found the tour at Grand Cayman to be a horrible circus event. Hundreds of people from several tour boats all swarmed to the area and the poor stingrays only came for the food. Then they have to battle in and about all these people to get the food.

I do think overall this will have an effect on the popularity of those tours ... at least for awhile.

[kakalina]

We have and will again. DH actually saw someone die from this in the Florida Keys when he was a child. It was a tragedy and I am sure we all have prayers for his family.

[PRINSENDAM]

I can't for the life of me figure out how he died from this. Most stingrays have a small barb on their tail. That is the only part that can injure a human. They don't, as far as I know, have the ability to aim that barb. Obviously they can swing their tail around (I don't even know if technically it would be called a tail) and the barb is on the top of it so wherever the tail goes, the barb goes. But how on earth did it hit him in just the right spot on his chest and pierce that deep.

.


My brother Alan has one of the stingray 'barbs' in his trophy cabinet. It is a hard bone with jagged edges..... 1/4 inches in diameter. About six to eight inches long. Alan tells me that it can swing up away from the back of the fish. Such a bone would easily pierce someone chest and in the wrong place .....

Stephen

[babyher]

Enjoyed the stingray tour very much and wouldn't hesitate doing it again.
As reported, these were a larger different type of stingray that didn't have the constant human contact of the ones in Grand Cayman and such places.

[bepsf]

My brother Alan has one of the stingray 'barbs' in his trophy cabinet. It is a hard bone with jagged edges..... 1/4 inches in diameter. About six to eight inches long. Alan tells me that it can swing up away from the back of the fish. Such a bone would easily pierce someone chest and in the wrong place .....

Stephen


Stephen--

Is this the father of your nephew who was speared by the fish?
(...and how is he doing BTW?)

I feel so sad that Steve Irwin was killed today - and its amazingly ironic that he was killed by a docile animal who wasn't trying to eat him - but at least he was fortunate enough to come to his end following his passion.

It does makes me think twice about the stingray excursion tho - it's bad enough that I'm already afraid of water...
I can just hear my mother's voice "Are you really sure you want to do that? You know what happened to that man on TV..."
:eek:

[HeatherInFlorida]

A word of caution ..... all stingrays (not just those like the one who stung Steve Irwin) are wild and in their own environment so if they feel theatened, they will attack.

In this particular instance, it's made easier because they're name tells you exactly what they will do: Sting, thought it won't necessarily be life threatening as in this case.

All animals, fish, mammels when afraid can use their natural instinct to attack .... even your own sweet pet. Give your little doggie a bone and try to take it from her and listen to the warning.

I'm not suggesting everyone shouldn't feel free to swim with whatever they want ... sharks and stingrays ... go right ahead. But understand that there is ALWAYS a risk and they CAN turn on you.

Go ahead and flame me, but to think anything different is not to be informed about the wild species. Remember Siegfried and Roy?

[babyher]

Stephen--

Is this the father of your nephew who was speared by the fish?
(...and how is he doing BTW?)

I feel so sad that Steve Irwin was killed today - and its amazingly ironic that he was killed by a docile animal who wasn't trying to eat him - but at least he was fortunate enough to come to his end following his passion.

It does makes me think twice about the stingray excursion tho - it's bad enough that I'm already afraid of water...
I can just hear my mother's voice "Are you really sure you want to do that? You know what happened to that man on TV..."
:eek:


Brian *LOL*


My Mom is the same way .

She is one of these people that although definately feels sorry for the victims and their families when things like this happen , will say "But what the hell makes people do stuff like this , they were asking for trouble."

[gizmo]

Before jumping to conclusions, did anyone do any research on the "rays" ? The internet is full of information.

There are different types and not all have stingers. ;)

[HeatherInFlorida]

You are right, Gizmo, and here's a link to one good site: Mote Marine Laboratory - About Stingrays (http://www.mote.org/index.php?src=gendocs&link=Stingrays&category=Shark%20Research&submenu=INFO)

Still, until they learn to talk (to tell me if they have a stinger or not), I'm not taking any chances;)

[Lvteks]

I'd go again. I get in my car every day and those "freak" accidents from "threatened drivers" are always a possibility. I'll take the "rays" any day. Yes, I do drive defensively and I respect the natural state of the critters too. It was one of my best cruise experiences.

Blessings,

Gail

[spcl4cs_gal]

Before jumping to conclusions, did anyone do any research on the "rays" ? The internet is full of information.

There are different types and not all have stingers. ;)

STINGRAY FACTS
# Marine fish related to the shark
# Wingspan in different species ranges from 10 inches to 7 feet
# Barb can be up to 12 inches
# Lie buried in sand, and normally very shy and non-aggressive
# Eat worms, mollusks and other invertebrates
# Possess flexible tails armed, in most species, with saw-edged, venomous spines
# Uses barb in self-defense when startled, threatened or cornered; venom causes excruciating pain, and serrated barb damages tissue when pulled out; large rays can exert enough force to drive their tail spines into a wooden boat
# Most stings occur in shallow, coastal waters when swimmers step on a stingray
# Fatal stings extremely rare, with only 17 recorded stingray deaths in Australia since 1969

If stingrays are near:
# Shuffle feet in sand to scare stingrays away
# If stung, soak affected area in extremely hot water to destroy venom
# Seek medical attention immediately

Sources: Encyclopedia Britannica, Georgia Aquarium, infoplease.com, Surf Life Saving Queensland

[Bramcruiser]

To honestly tell you I wouldn't have even done it before the Steve Irwin accident. Swimming with the wildlife or scuba diving was never my idea of fun. Given that however, I must admit Steve's death was a freakish accident - one in a million. Apparently, the stingers have a toxin but people rarely die of stingray attacks. It was the fact that the barb punctured Steve's heart that killed him.

Funny Brian! Here's another non-swimmer who isn't fond of water but loves cruising (even going through a storm in the Pacific last year) and watched the Poseidon Adventure a million times and still cruise. But a stingray? Never. LOL!

David

[HeatherInFlorida]

.....................
If stingrays are near:
# Shuffle feet in sand to scare stingrays away

............

You see this directly relates to my point. When you're on one of these "tours", they do not suggest you shuffle your feet at all. They encourage you to "play" with the stingrays, let them swim under you, between you. The stingrays are everywhere because the tour guides have fish for them.

The guides hold the stingrays while you smile and grin and have your picture taken.

Lvteks, if I'm correct you need to get in your car everyday. You do not need to swim with the stingrays. So there's a big difference there.

However, having said that please know that as long as people understand there is a small risk involved I see no problem with anyone doing it. But if people are ready to land lawsuits on HAL and tour companies for the smallest of disappointments, I can just imagine the lawsuit if a stingray hurts them. I can't remember if I had to sign a "hold harmless" agreement before the tour.

It's just something to think about. These creatures are wild and I believe we need to respect that.

[sail7seas]

I'm totally with you on this one, Heather. I never planned to swim with stingrays before this incident. This has not inspired me to reconsider.

Anyone who wishes to.......all the power to you. You're (hopefully) making an informed choice.

[Scrumpy]

We've done it before and would do it again. Having said that, we also have both dogs and horses - species that are responsible for more deaths annually than have ever (apparently) been reported due to sting rays and species that are generally considered domesticated and relatively safe. It is something to think about.

We have very early Monday mornings around here and I was watching CNN when the news broke about Irwin's death. I have been unaccountably affected by this and it has been a very sad day. My heart goes out to his family and I think this horrible accident has been a tragic loss to conservationists worldwide.

[sail7seas]

Apparently he was involved in making a documentary with his eight year old daughter who had an active part. Most thankfully, she was not present this morning when this event occured.

[HoneyGV]

After hearing about the tragic death of crocodile hunter/environmentalist Steve Irwin in Australia, will you still consider doing the "Swim with the Stingray" Tours?

He received a fatal stingray sting while filming a documentary.

Even with doctors aboard his boat, they could not save him.

We have them all over in our shallow ocean waters here and they're not really aggressive at all. You might get STUNG if you accidentally step on one, but hot water will help that.

What happened to Steve Irwin was really a freak accident. It seems from what I've been hearing that he was in shallow water above it and possibly startled it and it flipped it's tail up and it went under his ribcage and directly into his heart and that's what killed him, not a sting.

I'm not sure if ALL "stingray cities" have them contained, if they do, they usually have the "stings" clipped off.

[HoneyGV]

What a sad thing. Stingray strikes are seldom fatal. In this case, the long barb reportedly passed through his ribcage and into his heart.

I never had a desire to swim with the rays, so I don't believe I would swim with them. I'm sure these tours will drop like a lead balloon for a while.

I live directly on the beach...and I still haven't gotten over "Jaws". I pretty much stay out of the water. I worship it from afar.;)

[jhannah]

All animals ...when afraid can use their natural instinct to attack ... understand that there is ALWAYS a risk and they CAN turn on you. Absolutely right, Heather. We need to remember that when we deal with any animal ... domesticated or not.

As a side note, Roy Horn is working out almost every day at a local health club and is making amazing progress.

[HoneyGV]

A word of caution ..... all stingrays (not just those like the one who stung Steve Irwin) are wild and in their own environment so if they feel theatened, they will attack.

In this particular instance, it's made easier because they're name tells you exactly what they will do: Sting, thought it won't necessarily be life threatening as in this case.

All animals, fish, mammels when afraid can use their natural instinct to attack .... even your own sweet pet. Give your little doggie a bone and try to take it from her and listen to the warning.

I'm not suggesting everyone shouldn't feel free to swim with whatever they want ... sharks and stingrays ... go right ahead. But understand that there is ALWAYS a risk and they CAN turn on you.

Go ahead and flame me, but to think anything different is not to be informed about the wild species. Remember Siegfried and Roy?

Well Heather, you know what they say, "Anything with teeth will bite and anything with stings will sting"

[babyher]

Heather I agree with you 100%

No matter how well you think you know an animal, or how well you think you have trained them, or how long you have been living among them . An animal (even a dog or a cat) is still an animal and is capable of doing anything.

I feel the same way about people that need to do these "Extreme sports" or go exploreing areas where geographically and atmsopherically human beings have no business being.

If that is how you get your thrills , God bless you, but know the dangers and what can go wrong before hand.

[the2ofus]

You see this directly relates to my point. When you're on one of these "tours", they do not suggest you shuffle your feet at all. They encourage you to "play" with the stingrays, let them swim under you, between you. The stingrays are everywhere because the tour guides have fish for them.


Heather, when we did the Stingray City excursion on GC several years ago, our tour guides very specifically DID tell us to shuffle and not lift our feet because the spines were in the tops of the tails and would be very painful if stepped on. Very often when there has been a question about stingray excursions on the HAL board I have made a point of cautioning about this very thing.

I do not know if all guides issue this caution and I do not know if all people on the excursions listen, but I know our guides made sure we heard the message loud and clear, as in a shouted "Listen up, People" followed by a wait until all was quiet.

Would I do the excursion again on Grand Cayman or at Half Moon Cay? Absolutely!

[spcl4cs_gal]

Heather, when we did the Stingray City excursion on GC several years ago, our tour guides very specifically DID tell us to shuffle and not lift our feet because the spines were in the tops of the tails and would be very painful if stepped on. Very often when there has been a question about stingray excursions on the HAL board I have made a point of cautioning about this very thing.

I do not know if all guides issue this caution and I do not know if all people on the excursions listen, but I know our guides made sure we heard the message loud and clear, as in a shouted "Listen up, People" followed by a wait until all was quiet.

Would I do the excursion again on Grand Cayman or at Half Moon Cay? Absolutely!

This is exactly what our guide told us when we did the stingray excursion with Nativeway on Grand Cayman. He held one of the rays and showed us on its tail where the barb is located, telling us to avoid it at all costs. Unfortunately one of the girls in our group was hit on the knee with the barb and suffered a cut.

[Robin7]

Unfortunately one of the girls in our group was hit on the knee with the barb and suffered a cut.

Years ago my husband was body surfing at a beach in San Diego, California, when he accidentally stepped on a stingray. The resulting cut in his foot was about an inch wide and very deep. It and the pain from the toxins (?) required a trip to the ER. They soaked and soaked and soaked his foot in the hottest water he could stand. I can't imagine the pain Steve Irwin suffered. I read something that said he was 'barely conscious' for a while. Poor, poor fellow.

One of the network's nightly news casts said Irwin was a HUGE conservationist and, in fact, donated most of his money to conservation. It seems he's a celebrity who put his money where his 'mouth' was.

As far as snokeling with stingrays? I wasn't interested in it BEFORE we lost The Crocodile Hunter. I'll stay on the beach, shuffling my feet and not lifting them! :D

Robin

[Toad]

S.O has been stung and found it to be quite painful. Neither he nor I would have done it before, nor would we do it now. Don't even think it is nice for the sting rays.

[serendipity1499]

Never planned on doing it before & still do not plan on doing it now.. Might consider swimming with the Dolphins if they give me a life jacket, but know I still could be injured if one one them decided to dive or run me into a dock..

I'm with Heather & Bryan on this one..I'm not a swimmer & always wore a life jacket when jumping off our boat to cool off..

Won't take a chance with any animal except perhaps a Koala..Had a baby nuzzle my neck & I'm hooked for life;) ..But a young "joey" kicked me when I got too close..Oh, that hurts! :(

My Pup will let me & any one else take a bone away from her.. She's extremely docile..

Our hearts go out to Irwin's family & friends..What a terrible loss..

[bdcbbq]

Will his accident make me decide not to swim with the stingrays? Not really. I think there are far more dangerous cruise excursions including horseback riding, para-sailing, deep sea fishing, Jamaica, etc. Frankly, an accident can happen anytime, anyplace, and anywhere. When your time is up, your time is up.

[bdcbbq]

Will his accident make me decide not to swim with the stingrays? Not really. I think there are far more dangerous cruise excursions including horseback riding, para-sailing, deep sea fishing, Jamaica, etc. All of which I have done and may do again. Frankly, an accident can happen anytime, anyplace, and anywhere. When your time is up, your time is up.

[babyher]

Never planned on doing it before & still do not plan on doing it now.. Might consider swimming with the Dolphins if they give me a life jacket, but know I still could be injured if one one them decided to dive or run me into a dock..

I'm with Heather & Bryan on this one..I'm not a swimmer & always wore a life jacket when jumping off our boat to cool off..

Won't take a chance with any animal except perhaps a Koala..Had a baby nuzzle my neck & I'm hooked for life;) ..But a young "joey" kicked me when I got too close..Oh, that hurts! :(

My Pup will let me & any one else take a bone away from her.. She's extremely docile..

Our hearts go out to Irwin's family & friends..What a terrible loss..


Now se I have heard that as cute as Koalas are , they are supposed to be quite viscious. I read somewhere that those little beak like mouths of theres can do a lot of damage because they are very strong as the Koalas use them to crack open nuts and various branches.

At least that is what I have heard , unless someone here knows different.

[hammybee]

Now se I have heard that as cute as Koalas are , they are supposed to be quite viscious. I read somewhere that those little beak like mouths of theres can do a lot of damage because they are very strong as the Koalas use them to crack open nuts and various branches.

At least that is what I have heard , unless someone here knows different.

A few years back, while at the SD Zoo. pre cruise, koala bears escaped, mayhem ensued and eventually the zoo evacuated and closed. They look vicious when cornered. I will keep my distance around bears. But if you want docile, try a sloth in Columbia- cutest thing, you'll ever see.

[karen2cruz]

We had a wonderful experience diving with the stingrays in Grand Cayman. It is sad what has happend to Mr Irwin, but it was a fluke. Stingrays are not easily provoked. It was incredible bad luck that the stingray whipped his tail around and it hit him in the worst possible place.

Just goes to show you that all animals need to be treated with respect; and all saftey precautions should be followed exactly when on an excursion.

[purr_30]

Heather, I wholeheartly agree with you!!!

DH swam with the Stingrays in GC in Jan and I opted to sit on the boat and "watch". I was nervous the whole time and couldn't wait for it to be over.

I don't care how tame/gentle they may be, they can at any given moment change behaviour and seriously hurt someone. Steve Irwin is a fine example!!

My thoughts and prayers go out to his family.
God Bless them.

[cands]

1.. The Box Jellyfish (http://www.australianfauna.com/boxjellyfish.php)
2. Irukandji (http://www.australianfauna.com/irukandji.php) (A Jellyfish)
3. Salt Water Crocodile (http://www.australianfauna.com/saltwatercrocodile.php)
4. Blue Ring Octopus (http://www.australianfauna.com/blueringoctopus.php)
5. Stone Fish (http://www.australianfauna.com/stonefish.php)
6. Red Back Spider (http://www.australianfauna.com/redbackspider.php)
7. Brown Snake (http://www.australianfauna.com/brownsnake.php)
8. Tiger Snake (http://www.australianfauna.com/tigersnake.php)
9. Great White Shark (http://www.australianfauna.com/greatwhiteshark.php)
10. Funnel Web Spider (http://www.australianfauna.com/funnelwebspider.php)

BTW, Koalas eat only leaves. I've never heard of anyone being bitten by one. They are totally placid in the wild and are always found high up in the trees.
They do have very sharp claws used for climbing trees, though.
An adult red or grey kangaroo can split a person open with their very powerful claws and hind legs.

Steve.

[UltimateDevotion]

I was scared when I first did the sting ray excursion, but by the end I loved it! They were so nice and gentle.
I would definetaly do it again and already have it booked for our cruise in October!

[AAAAmerican]

We have been with quite a few all over the world and they are usually docile creatures.

A member of the shark family as well.

CAUTION with any wild animal has to always be considered.

This gentleman who just passed was above her on top and they send the barb upside for defense.

What is most needed now is prayers for his family and kind thoughts/wishes.


His work in the awareness and the environment is going to be missed now .

Our prayers are with all and for his family now.

[michmike]

Have done it before and would do it again in a heartbeat. Was a great experience. As others have mentioned, you need to exercise a bit of common sense and caution, but where in life is that NOT the case?

We were flying a week ago Sunday when the Comair flight crashed in Lexington. We were also on Comair that day, flying out of Kentucky (Cinci airport). We're getting on a Comair flight again in 6 weeks to head to Ft Lauderdale for a cruise and flying in Jan to the Bahamas as well.

Certainly not reckless, but a firm believer that when your number is up, your number is up. In the meantime you have to live your life.

[Pudgesmom]

I would not do this excursion, but not because of Steve Irwin's death. I believe it is unethical for tourists to participate in these types of encounters.

Remember what happened with the bears in Yellowstone?

I know one of the major cruise lines, is it RSSC or Seabourn, has deleted these types of excursions due to the environmental concerns and damage to the animals.

Please consider not only your safety and well being, but also that of the animals before you pay anyone for this type of encounter.

Beth

[NoNoNanette]

I would not do this excursion, but not because of Steve Irwin's death. I believe it is unethical for tourists to participate in these types of encounters.

Remember what happened with the bears in Yellowstone?

I know one of the major cruise lines, is it RSSC or Seabourn, has deleted these types of excursions due to the environmental concerns and damage to the animals.

Please consider not only your safety and well being, but also that of the animals before you pay anyone for this type of encounter.

Beth

When we did this in Bora Bora, we were horrified to see a Japanese group's actions. The tour guide (also Japanese) literally snapped the ray's tail in order to paralyze it for a photo-op for his group. Our Tahitian were furious and they almost came to blows.

It was one of the saddest things that I've ever seen. :(

[Sea King]

Never went on the sting ray tours in the past although thought about once or twice

after this tragedy, no more thinking: I'll definitely opt for Lido Pool

suspect "sting ray" tours will be on the "light side" for a while

[twinkletoes4445]

double post.

[twinkletoes4445]

To answer the question, no I would not swim with the Stingray. I will stick to swimming with the dolphins this year..;)
John

You should watch the show that's been airing on cable (I can't remember the channel), but it's about dolphins attacking. It was at the dolphin swim in Cancun, but it was frightening. We did the dolphin swim in Cozumel, and I can tell you, when I watched this show, I think my heart skipped a beat.

This was on a week or so ago. I think it was on the Discovery Channel (or one like that).

That said, I'd probably swim with the stingrays and do the dolphin swim again.

[kryos]

After hearing about the tragic death of crocodile hunter/environmentalist Steve Irwin in Australia, will you still consider doing the "Swim with the Stingray" Tours?
[/B]
The stingray he was "playing with" weighed something like 270 pounds, from what I understand. That is clearly not the same thing that we encounter when "swimming" with the stingrays.

I swam with stingrays on about four different excursions while in the Hawaii/South Pacific. In about three to four years, I hope to do that Hawaii/South Pacific itinerary again, and yes ... I would definitely swim with the stingrays again.

Look ... Steve Irwin was clearly "extreme." He loved that stuff. Well, he died doing what he loved and he was a lucky man for that. Most of us die in far more tragic circumstances ... rotting in nursing homes, suffering from terminal cancer ... you name it.

I admire Steve Irwin. He lived his life as he saw fit and it was clear he enjoyed it immensely. He took his chances and in this case his number came up. Feel bad about it ... but certainly don't pity him for what happened. He knew the risks and chose to take them. A former skydiver can well understand that attitude. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I would not do this excursion, but not because of Steve Irwin's death. I believe it is unethical for tourists to participate in these types of encounters.

I don't know how all of these excursions work, but on the ones we did in the South Pacific, we were totally transparent to those stingrays. Yes, the tour leader fed them ... in order to attract them to swim around us so that we could get photographs ... but we did nothing to hinder them or interfere with their normal lifestyle. I doubt they minded our presence one iota. In fact, my guess is that they looked forward to it ... feeding time! :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[HeatherInFlorida]

This thread has really upset me more than I ever imagined words on a page could. The more I have heard and read about the death of Steve Irwin, the more upset I become. Because it is clear that the stingray that was the cause of Steve Irwin's death is absolutely no different than the ones in Grand Cayman.

The chances of anything like this happening to anyone doing a tour like this are close to zero. Only 17 deaths ever from a stingray and that's because they are a docile creature who has no desire to harm us. So I agree everyone's risk is very small.

When we did the tour in Grand Cayman (and there were many other tourboats all around the same area), there could have been no shuffling of feet on the sandy bottom. The water was quite choppy (in fact they apologized that we couldn't see the stingrays that well in the churned waters) and there was no way you could stand.

I admit I foolishly misunderstood what the outting would be. I was so upset when I saw what seemed like hundreds of people swarming off all the boats. The stingrays who only came to feed ended up being pawns in everyone's fun. I was back up on the boat pretty quickly because I can't stand any man or animal exploited.

Yet so many posting here have such an extraordinary devil may care attitude about it. At least Steve Irwin had a reason for what he was doing and his life's work had a purpose. I didn't support much of what he did, truthfully, and didn't think it was in the best interest of his children or sometimes the crocodiles, but he had a passion and a mission and so I respect him for that.

But no one here has a reason in the world to participate other than their own pleasure. The whole world has gone nuts with itself for their own pleasure with no regard to the animals involved or the effect it has on them. And they seem to forget that all these creatures on land or sea are wild and are not there for entertainment.

I'm so glad so many of you see my point of view (and the point of view of many, many others), but I'm saddened by the cavalier attitude by so many.

I realize the reaction this post will bring, but when you react please understand there's nothing anyone could ever say to change the way I feel about this. So if that would be your goal, it's not worth your time or energy.

Go and have your fun if you must ... I realize I can't change your minds either. But personally I would love to see every tour that engages in any of this is simply wiped off the face of the earth.

[purr_30]

Very well said, Heather!!! 27992


This thread has really upset me more than I ever imagined words on a page could. The more I have heard and read about the death of Steve Irwin, the more upset I become. Because it is clear that the stingray that was the cause of Steve Irwin's death is absolutely no different than the ones in Grand Cayman.

The chances of anything like this happening to anyone doing a tour like this are close to zero. Only 17 deaths ever from a stingray and that's because they are a docile creature who has no desire to harm us. So I agree everyone's risk is very small.

When we did the tour in Grand Cayman (and there were many other tourboats all around the same area), there could have been no shuffling of feet on the sandy bottom. The water was quite choppy (in fact they apologized that we couldn't see the stingrays that well in the churned waters) and there was no way you could stand.

I admit I foolishly misunderstood what the outting would be. I was so upset when I saw what seemed like hundreds of people swarming off all the boats. The stingrays who only came to feed ended up being pawns in everyone's fun. I was back up on the boat pretty quickly because I can't stand any man or animal exploited.

Yet so many posting here have such an extraordinary devil may care attitude about it. At least Steve Irwin had a reason for what he was doing and his life's work had a purpose. I didn't support much of what he did, truthfully, and didn't think it was in the best interest of his children or sometimes the crocodiles, but he had a passion and a mission and so I respect him for that.

But no one here has a reason in the world to participate other than their own pleasure. The whole world has gone nuts with itself for their own pleasure with no regard to the animals involved or the effect it has on them. And they seem to forget that all these creatures on land or sea are wild and are not there for entertainment.

I'm so glad so many of you see my point of view (and the point of view of many, many others), but I'm saddened by the cavalier attitude by so many.

I realize the reaction this post will bring, but when you react please understand there's nothing anyone could ever say to change the way I feel about this. So if that would be your goal, it's not worth your time or energy.

Go and have your fun if you must ... I realize I can't change your minds either. But personally I would love to see every tour that engages in any of this is simply wiped off the face of the earth.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I doubt they minded our presence one iota. In fact, my guess is that they looked forward to it ... feeding time! :)

Blue skies ...
--rita

Rita, I agree with you totally. First off it is my understanding especially in the Grand Caymans that the Sting Rays swim to this area daily. If they did want want yo be bothered by humans and want the contact WHY do they return daily. I remember after the hurricanes in fall of 2004 they there were some in GC questioning if the Sting Rays would return. Well, they did. I did this excursion with Nativeway which was good because our boat/group was very small and the guides could explain a lot more to us. I also found that you could tell how smart the Sting Rays were. They knew instantly our boat and guides and came right to them. It was as though they wanted the attention. You could also tell they they knew the people that were scared and those that were not. They tended to stay away from those that were jumping around. I myself was not the least bit scared and had one that kept following me and rubbing up against me. Our guided even commented that he saw that that one really liked me. They even had names for different ones. No one can tell me differently that these Sting Rays did not also like this encounter. Can an accident happen YES, but they also told us what to do and how to shuffle our feet in the sand. I just do not think in any way we are hurting these Sting Rays. Although I do think that it is way too crowded and the numbers should definitely be limited. If they have to raise the price and limit the numbers like they do for the dolphin swim then they should.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Interstingly enough I just got this email which I am sure many of you that subscribe may also have gotten.


CruiseMates Newsletter
http://www.cruisemates.com
S E P T E M B E R 5 , 2 0 0 6 (http://cruisematesbow.com/dbm83/l.php?45666&164210)mip://0479aa00/mip://0479aa00/mip://0479aa00/CRUISEMATES IS NOT A TRAVEL AGENCY (http://cruisematesbow.com/dbm83/l.php?45666&164210)
We are an online, interactive CRUISE SHIP GUIDE recommended by: New York Times -- Wall Street Journal -- CNN Television; A Forbes Magazine "Best of the Web" Web site.

Commentary by Paul Motter
--------------- * Swimming with Sting Rays - Is It Safe?
We cruisers were especially shocked to hear the details behind the unfortunate death of Australian ecologist and animal lover Steve Irwin. Swimming with the stingrays in Grand Cayman is one of the most popular shore tours ever, now newly offered in the Bahamas and other ports. I have done it three times myself! I even have a picture of my wife and me holding one out of the water, more or less hugging it to our bodies, which we did by encouragement of our guide, who took the picture and charged us $10 for it.

Is it safe? There are now but two recorded deaths by stingray in recent world history. In the wild, stingrays are non-aggresive fish who nestle in the sand of the ocean floor. The largest occurance of penetrating stings happen when people inadvertently step on them, usually in murky water. (The actual barbed stinger is at the top of the spine, not at the end of the tail). A stingray will only use its stinger defensively, if it feels cornered and there is no other way to survive, and only as a last resort, because it takes years to grow a stinger.

Steve Irwin was not merely stung by the fish, he was stabbed in the chest with the stinger penetrating his ribcage, by a large bull ray stingray who felt threatened enough to attack. This is a series of highly unlikely events.

There are some 200 species of stingrays, and Australia is known for having some of the most agressive. Grand Cayman officials point out that their Caribbean stingrays swim into the bay by choice, looking for people they know will feed them. They have been doing it for 50 years now and are well conditioned to the interaction. The waters are almost crystal clear, and wide open so the rays can easily get away. The fish are there to be fed by humans, not to dig into the sand and sleep.

Do accidents happen in Grand Cayman? Very, very rarely. There is one concern officials have there, however, and I am guilty of it myself. They consider the act of lifting the fish out of the water for picture taking by the guides to be cruel and unnatural for the fish, and now we realize, potentially severely dangerous for the people doing it. Given Steve Irwin's record of respect for the natural rights of animals, and given the way he died, it seems the banning of lifting sting rays out of the water in Grand Cayman would be a fitting tribute to the man who gave us so much knowledge and appreciation for sea life.

[RuthC]

Excellent letter, Lisa. Thanks for posting it.

When I did the Stingray City tour on Grand Cayman they stressed that we were to shuffle along rather than walk and step, and they were adamant that we were not to lift the rays out of the water.
I think we were told that the rays breathe from the bottom of their bodies, and to lift them out of the water is tantamount to suffocating them.

If I understand Heather's point of view on this she believes that to attract the rays, to interact with them, and to have them become dependent on us for food is unnatural and therefore will not participate in it.
That's not unlike what we're told while visiting Denali Park. Different type of wildlife, but same idea.

[Namvet4]

The death of Steve Irwin was a very sad and unfortunate accident causing the loss of a professed environmentalist and adventurer. My prayers are for his family. As others have said, he died doing what defined his life.
In response to Sail7Seas question, I am not sure if I would enjoy swimming with the stingrays. I have never had a great affinity to interacting with wildlife.
I have always believed that I am seen as the intruder in their world.
I do not live my life in fear, nor do I live it with reckless abandon. Perhaps in my youth it was different, but in the time that I have remaining on this earth, I am cognizant of the risks a little more than I am of the reward.
I do believe that the tour operators for these “adventures” will be expending a significant amount of time and money downplaying the perceived risks. It is in their best economic interests to do so. And as long as they do so without providing false and/or misleading information, than it becomes the responsibility of each person to weigh the risks and make their own decision. If you enjoy it, so be it! If not than there are a multitude of other excursions and interactive activities for cruise ship passengers to enjoy.
just my 2 cents....

[HeatherInFlorida]

................. If they did want want yo be bothered by humans and want the contact WHY do they return daily. ..............

........... because they know there is FOOD there!!!!! Same as your pet dog or cat go to their food dish ..... same reason down here in sunny Florida they tell you not to put food out for the gators.

Ruth, goes a bit beyond that, but yes exactly.

Namvet, "intruder in their world" is a wonderful way to put it and and your excellent post is so much more succinct than mine.:)

[Pudgesmom]

Rita, I agree with you totally. First off it is my understanding especially in the Grand Caymans that the Sting Rays swim to this area daily. If they did want want yo be bothered by humans and want the contact WHY do they return daily. I remember after the hurricanes in fall of 2004 they there were some in GC questioning if the Sting Rays would return. Well, they did. I did this excursion with Nativeway which was good because our boat/group was very small and the guides could explain a lot more to us. I also found that you could tell how smart the Sting Rays were. They knew instantly our boat and guides and came right to them. It was as though they wanted the attention. You could also tell they they knew the people that were scared and those that were not. They tended to stay away from those that were jumping around. I myself was not the least bit scared and had one that kept following me and rubbing up against me. Our guided even commented that he saw that that one really liked me. They even had names for different ones. No one can tell me differently that these Sting Rays did not also like this encounter. Can an accident happen YES, but they also told us what to do and how to shuffle our feet in the sand. I just do not think in any way we are hurting these Sting Rays. Although I do think that it is way too crowded and the numbers should definitely be limited. If they have to raise the price and limit the numbers like they do for the dolphin swim then they should.

I agree with Heather. These animals are returning for the food.

In addition, to anthropomorphise them by saying they "like you" or knew "who was scared" is incorrect. The sting rays' responses may seem human to you, but they are not.

Lastly, RAISE THE PRICE?! This is your idea of how to protect our environment? Most likely, this will just cause additional operators to enter the water with more boats, more tourists and more non-native food.
If the business is there, the operators will be, too, especially if the income is greater.

Please consider NOT joining these expeditions. At the very least, refuse to participate in any excursion using captive animals who are kept in unknown circumstances or one in which animals are fed by humans.

There are soooo many other ways to view wildlife without disturbing it.

Beth

[serendipity1499]

Now se I have heard that as cute as Koalas are , they are supposed to be quite viscious. I read somewhere that those little beak like mouths of theres can do a lot of damage because they are very strong as the Koalas use them to crack open nuts and various branches.

At least that is what I have heard , unless someone here knows different.

It was in the 70's in a park near Sydney..Maybe Aussie Girl would remember where it is..The Koala was a Baby & I had a Fake gray fur Cape on..He nuzzled & clung to me as if I was his Mother & would not let go...They had to pry him away from me..I was in 7th Heaven & will never forget that as long as I live..

Agree Sloth's are extremely docile..The kids had them on our canoe trip in the Amazon & passed them into our canoe..But their nails are like Koala's nails very Long to climb the trees..
Betty

[michmike]

ok so let me get this straight.. the more politically correct course of conduct (not to mention more nature friendly) would be to forego the stingray excursion and instead find a nice cafe in town, overlooking the water, and have a bowl of conch chowder and a nice blackened grouper sandwich???

I think the conch and the grouper would argue that the stingrays are getting the best of the deal.

[watchdiva]

We have "done" the sting ray excursions twice - once at HMC and another at GC. DH and I would go again in a heartbeat!

[DD]

Are the stingrays in Grand Cayman conditioned to come for food? Absolutely. However, in other seas, in other oceans, it's not uncommon for stingrays to routinely swim up close to humans. They are naturally curious creatures and they are gregarious.

I have swam with stingrays many many times in various countries, twice in Grand Cayman. Once was years ago at the original Stingray City and once a few years ago at Stingray City (Sandbar). I didn't particularly like the Grand Cayman experience. I don't like the whole parade them around aspect of it and I don't particularly like being with a couple hundred other people, many of whom cannot swim, floundering around in the water. I also don't like to feed wild creatures.

However, in other areas of the world, it's not uncommon to be swimming and have stingrays approach you, not for food, not because of conditioning, but because that's their nature. In French Polynesia, the seas are lousy with them. You can't get away from them and they'll follow you around like puppies. I wasn't feeding them, I wasn't photo-opping them. They're just curious friendly creatures.

Would I do it again? In the wild, yes. In a "canned" experience, no. I don't think that it's horrible, I just prefer it in less crowded waters.

[agrigar]

The stingray he was "playing with" weighed something like 270 pounds, from what I understand. That is clearly not the same thing that we encounter when "swimming" with the stingrays.

I swam with stingrays on about four different excursions while in the Hawaii/South Pacific. In about three to four years, I hope to do that Hawaii/South Pacific itinerary again, and yes ... I would definitely swim with the stingrays again.

Look ... Steve Irwin was clearly "extreme." He loved that stuff. Well, he died doing what he loved and he was a lucky man for that. Most of us die in far more tragic circumstances ... rotting in nursing homes, suffering from terminal cancer ... you name it.

I admire Steve Irwin. He lived his life as he saw fit and it was clear he enjoyed it immensely. He took his chances and in this case his number came up. Feel bad about it ... but certainly don't pity him for what happened. He knew the risks and chose to take them. A former skydiver can well understand that attitude. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

I couldn't have said it better. I was just coming to post at least he died doing what he loved. It is a sad situation for his family but he knew the risks with everything he did.
I am a diver, I don't have many dives behind my belt but I've seen barracudas, sharks, stingrays, eels, etc. At first I was a little frightened but I could just as easily die in a car accident. At least if I died doing something I enjoyed, my life would be fullfilled. I wouldn't want to leave my children or my husband but when it is my time to go, there is nothing I can do about it. Only the great man above holds that power.

[DD]

Hi fellow diver! I'll never forget a statistic that I learned in training. More people die in bowling accidents each year than die while scuba diving.

[sail7seas]

Hi fellow diver! I'll never forget a statistic that I learned in training. More people die in bowling accidents each year than die while scuba diving.

We lost a friend this year to a scuba diving accident in Mexico. His heart attack while under water was unsurvivable.

I wouldn't want to dispute you but......more die bowling? That is a statistic that interests me.

[kryos]

Only the great man above holds that power.
Amen!

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

We lost a friend this year to a scuba diving accident in Mexico. His heart attack while under water was unsurvivable.

I wouldn't want to dispute you but......more die bowling? That is a statistic that interests me.
More people die while bowling than while skydiving too. It's a fact, Sail. And even the ones who do die while skydiving mostly die under perfectly functional parachutes. They die of poor judgment ... performing stunts under canopy ... swooping the landing area ... trying stuff that is clearly dangerous and totally unnecessary. But, they do it for the thrill ... and if they die, that's a risk they are very willing to take.

I would imagine the reason more people die doing "harmless" sports is probably simply the fact that far, far more people bowl or golf than Scuba dive or skydive, so the odds for a heart attack or some other malady befalling someone while doing any of these activities is simply greater because of the numbers. Nothing else.

I made over a hundred skydives before my accident ... an accident also incurred under a perfectly functional parachute ... the result of a stupid lapse of judgment on my part. The things I've seen and the experiences I had while participating in that sport cannot be put adequately into words. How many people can say that they actually fell through the center of a rainbow reflected on the underside of a thick cloud? How many people can say they gazed down on the powerful mountain ranges of the Arizona desert from freefall and felt literally touched by the angels ... and this was long, long before I became a Christian? How many people sat in the doorway of a twin otter ... as the pilot made a go-around ... legs dangling into space ... laughing with their friends ... enjoying the beautiful sunshine of a wonderful day at 15,000 feet? How many people can reflect on cavorting in the sky with their friends ... making formations, no matter how ineptly ... laughing ... getting their first "kiss pass" from a fellow jumper?

Well, I had those experiences, Sail ... and you know what? If I had died during any one of them, I would have died a happy and fulfilled person, with no regrets and no sadness. Even my accident in '99 ... an accident that everyone told me could have had far, far worse consequences that what I had to deal with ... was well worth it. I wouldn't in a million years have traded my skydiving experiences for the chance to avoid that accident. No way.

That, to me, is what Steve Irwin represented. He lived his life on his own terms, and it certainly seemed that he enjoyed it. So many of us make compromises ... I know even I do ... and we don't quite live life as we would truly like to live it. That's why there are so many unhappy people in this world. Well, I don't think Steve Irwin was one of those unhappy people, and if that's the case, believe me, he long ago made his peace with the fates ... and knew that he could die at any time doing the things he loved. He accepted those odds and I have no doubt that he died a very, very happy man. Shame most people in this world can't say the same.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[HeatherInFlorida]

Could it be that more people bowl than skydive???:D

I think a percentage statistic might work better in this case. If a higher percentage die bowling than skydiving that would be a very interesting statistic!!!

[ShyGuy215]

After hearing about the tragic death of crocodile hunter/environmentalist Steve Irwin in Australia, will you still consider doing the "Swim with the Stingray" Tours?

He received a fatal stingray sting while filming a documentary.

Even with doctors aboard his boat, they could not save him.

This incident was very saddening. In July, I did a dive with Moby Dick Tours in Grand Cayman. It was truly one of the most thrilling things I have ever done. It is hard to imagine how one of these peaceful, docile creatures could kill. I believe that Mr. Irwin must have frightened the ray and that his reaction was strictly a defense to a perceived threat. It should also be noted that this was an extremely rare occurrance and the sting was only fatal because it pierced Irwin's heart. The doctor on board the vessel at the time of the attack was not a medical doctor, but a toxologist. I would not hesitate to go on another excursion with stingrays and hope that the people who offer these tours do not suffer because of this unfortunate incident. Just my thoughts.

[AngieBaby161]

While the stingrays are wild, in these tours, they are so use to humans they are almost like trained pets. As long as you do not step on them, or harm them, they and you should be safe. However accidents can happen in anything you do in life. If you never take a chance, you are not living. The stingray tour was one of the best excursions I have ever done and would do it again in a minute

[Djptcp]

Yes -- DH and I have done it twice in Grand Cayman and will certainly do it again. I worry more about being in an auto accident because the other driver is talking on a cell phone and not paying attention to driving. That's a real danger in my book!

Holland America - 2004, 2006
Carnival - 1995, 1998, 2006, 2006
NCL - 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003
Royal Caribbean - 2002

[kryos]

Could it be that more people bowl than skydive???:D

I think a percentage statistic might work better in this case. If a higher percentage die bowling than skydiving that would be a very interesting statistic!!!
Exactly. It's all a numbers game. Also, I'd be willing to bet that while a few people have died while skydiving, but due to medical conditions (i.e., heart attack in freefall, etc.), probably just about everyone who dies while bowling dies not from the actual act of bowling, but from a medical condition that hits them while doing the activity.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

This incident was very saddening. In July, I did a dive with Moby Dick Tours in Grand Cayman. It was truly one of the most thrilling things I have ever done. It is hard to imagine how one of these peaceful, docile creatures could kill. I believe that Mr. Irwin must have frightened the ray and that his reaction was strictly a defense to a perceived threat.
Don't forget, too, that Steve Irwin was filming a television show at the time. There would have been loads of other divers in the water with him ... with cameras, bright television lights, etc. I don't doubt they scared the crap out of the rays. It's very understandable.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[HeatherInFlorida]

Exactly. It's all a numbers game. Also, I'd be willing to bet that while a few people have died while skydiving, but due to medical conditions (i.e., heart attack in freefall, etc.), probably just about everyone who dies while bowling dies not from the actual act of bowling, but from a medical condition that hits them while doing the activity.

Blue skies ...

--rita

True, Rita ......... or, if bowling with me, they might get hit in the stomach with the ball! That would be life threatening for sure!:D

[kryos]

True, Rita ......... or, if bowling with me, they might get hit in the stomach with the ball! That would be life threatening for sure!:D
LOL ... same here.

It's funny ... when someone is learning the sport of skydiving, if they are not, ahhhhhh, doing very well, it will often be "suggested" by their instructors that they "take up bowling" instead. Sadly, I was the recipient of that "talk" a few times. My response? Believe me, bowling would be even more dangerous in my case. You don't give a klutz like me a ten pound lead ball and expect not to have injuries. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[sandydownunder]

From another perspective. I went swimming with the sting rays in Grand Caymen. Thought it was a wonderful experience. Our guide picked up a ray and rubbed the underside (where the mouth is) over my back to show me how soft they were. The next day I came out in a rash on my back that was so incredibly itchy I couldn't sleep at night. I put up with it for several days before seeing the ship's doctor. I was offering suggestions as to what might have caused it eg sea lice, mucas from the ray's mouth but he said he couldn't be sure and put allergy on the medical form for insurance purposes.

Yes, the species of ray are different here. On reflection, I don't think I'd do that excursion again. The out pouring of grief here at the moment has been incredible. The media have been stirring. Yesterday's paper had a column headed "What the Irwin's Own" listing their properties and their value. How crass and irrelevant is that? I wish they'd leave the family to grieve in peace.

Sandra

[dot73]

Sandra's post just shows another reason why wild animals should not be touched. Why can't people just be satisfied with watching wild animals in the their habitat without having to touch them or harass them? I absolutely love snorkelling but I don't feel I need to touch the fish. I am enthralled in just seeing them in their own environment rather than in an aquarium. One of the best excursions I ever experienced was a couple of years ago in Mexico. I went snorkelling with sea lions. We were told not to get too close to them or touch them and let them come to us, if they chose to. Sure enough, a baby seal came to sniff around me, swam circles around me and rubbed herself against my legs. What an amazing experience. I am very sorry for Steve Irwin's family, especially his children. I can't help but wonder whether he did something to provoke the stingray by swimming too close or trying to get that perfect shot of it by scaring it out of the sand. He may have been a great educator but I really hated to watch him with the crocodiles when he manhandled them or tried to get them to do tricks for food. I plan to snorkel with the rays again, and even with the sharks, on my next cruise to Tahiti, but I will keep a respectful distance and not touch them.

[NoNoNanette]

I plan to snorkel with the rays again, and even with the sharks, on my next cruise to Tahiti, but I will keep a respectful distance and not touch them.

Hi Dot-

I don't know if you've ever been to Tahiti before, so thought I'd mention something....

If you go on an excursion, the rays will envelope you. They see the boats coming and go crazy.....crazy, but a "fun" crazy. ;) You won't have a choice BUT to touch them.

However, snorkeling along shore, I saw plenty of them. I'd keep a respectful distance, and just swim along with them. They really are magnificent creatures, aren't they?

Have fun, kiddo! :)

[agabbymama]

Hi Dot-

I don't know if you've ever been to Tahiti before, so thought I'd mention something....

If you go on an excursion, the rays will envelope you. They see the boats coming and go crazy.....crazy, but a "fun" crazy. ;) You won't have a choice BUT to touch them.

However, snorkeling along shore, I saw plenty of them. I'd keep a respectful distance, and just swim along with them. They really are magnificent creatures, aren't they?

Have fun, kiddo! :)

I went to the Great Barrier Reef in 1990 and we could have swam in the water surrounding the reef (a lot of folks did) but I was content to stay on the catamaran and floating dock. I also went to Tahiti in 2003 and went on the feed the sharks/swim with the rays/motu picnic tour. I stayed in the boat and watched the sharks and the rays in the water. Got some great shots of them, and there were a few people that got into the water. But there were more of us on the boat than in the water. I didn't plan on swimming with them then, and now that this accident happened to Steve Irwin, I would never entertain the idea of swimming anywhere I knew they were, sharks or rays. They are amazing creatures and I will be very happy just knowing I saw them in their natural habitat.:eek:

[CruiseBumm]

From all accounts it appears to be a freak acident. If your pick a Sting ray up and it gets iritated it will most likelt swing its barbs.

I have swam with Rays twice. And each time it was a great time. I THink the tours will give stronger warnings adn maybe require an insurenc fee.
:rolleyes:

[NoNoNanette]

I went to the Great Barrier Reef in 1990 and we could have swam in the water surrounding the reef (a lot of folks did) but I was content to stay on the catamaran and floating dock. I also went to Tahiti in 2003 and went on the feed the sharks/swim with the rays/motu picnic tour. I stayed in the boat and watched the sharks and the rays in the water. Got some great shots of them, and there were a few people that got into the water. But there were more of us on the boat than in the water. I didn't plan on swimming with them then, and now that this accident happened to Steve Irwin, I would never entertain the idea of swimming anywhere I knew they were, sharks or rays. They are amazing creatures and I will be very happy just knowing I saw them in their natural habitat.:eek:

Hi there... RE: your "not necessarily"....

Kindly note that I was referring to Dot's statement that she was going to "SNORKEL WITH THE RAYS". (As opposed to staying in the boat).

From experience, I contend that if she were snorkeling in the water on that excursion, she couldn't help but interact with them.... desire to, or not. Just wanted to give her a "heads up", so she wouldn't be surprised or even frightened.

Did you LOVE that motu, or what?????? :D We were out there every day!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Any motu is a good motu. We're going back to Bora Bora if it's the last thing on this earth we do. We fell in love with the islands of French Polynesia. We woul descend the ladder from our overwater bungalow and fish in every color came from everywhere. We carried plastic bags of bread from the restaurant. Everyone there believed the bread was only for the fish because it was too hard to eat.

Just a little tiny piece of heaven on earth out there in the Pacific no matter who you swim with.:)

[iluvcrusin]

I have and would again. The day I swam with the stingrays at Stingray City in Grand Cayman was the most exciting day of my life. They are so soft to touch. It was a bit freeky at first but they get up close and friendly very quickly.

[NoNoNanette]

Any motu is a good motu. We're going back to Bora Bora if it's the last thing on this earth we do. We fell in love with the islands of French Polynesia. We woul descend the ladder from our overwater bungalow and fish in every color came from everywhere. We carried plastic bags of bread from the restaurant. Everyone there believed the bread was only for the fish because it was too hard to eat.

Just a little tiny piece of heaven on earth out there in the Pacific no matter who you swim with.:)

I'm with you, Heather. T'was paradise.

I've traveled pretty extensively, and that's the ONE place that I plan on returning to. ;)

[dot73]

Thank you for the advice re snorkelling in Tahiti. If the rays want to come and touch me, that's okay, but I think I'll keep my hands to myself. As for the sharks, I will definitely keep a very respectful distance. I have read that feeding the sharks is no longer allowed in Tahiti. That may change my mind about snorkelling with "hungry" sharks. I think Tahiti will be one heck of an adventure.:D

[NoNoNanette]

Thank you for the advice re snorkelling in Tahiti. If the rays want to come and touch me, that's okay, but I think I'll keep my hands to myself. <snip> I think Tahiti will be one heck of an adventure.:D

I'll tell you a story about the Rays "touching me".

Myself and best friend had gone...left the husbands home....what a wonderful vacation! ;)

While we were oooohing and ahhhhing over the stingrays, one of the guides dangled a squid just behind my left ear (from behind, without my knowledge). All of a sudden, a ray FLEW out of the water, wrapped his "arms" around me and grabbed the squid. :eek:

Have you ever heard someone "Squeal with delight"???? My voice probably carried for miles.... Wow, was that neato! Absolutely tickled me.

You'll love Tahiti and her islands. Have a blast, honey! :)