Lost Job But Trip Already Pid For.few Questions

[TIMELMAN]

I Was Wondring How Much 4 People (2 Adults And 2 Kids) Might Need To Spend On Board? We Dont Drink Wine Or Such Just Cokes.i Have Already Paid For 1 Shore Excursion.i Have Neverd Sailed Hal And Wondering How Many Things Are Out Of Pocket.

[kryos]

I Was Wondring How Much 4 People (2 Adults And 2 Kids) Might Need To Spend On Board? We Dont Drink Wine Or Such Just Cokes.i Have Already Paid For 1 Shore Excursion.i Have Neverd Sailed Hal And Wondering How Many Things Are Out Of Pocket.
You'll have your auto-tips of $10 per day per person ... so these will be charged to your room.

As for Cokes, if you drink enough it might be wise to get a Coke sticker for each person. Depending on the length of the cruise, these could be quite reasonable and will entitle you to all the refills you want onboard.

Other than that ... you can actually get away with spending NOTHING onboard if money is an issue. The out of pocket expenses include things like drinks, shore excursions, spa treatments, bingo, casino, shopping in the stores, etc. None of those things is an absolute necessity for a perfect cruise. Plenty of things are included ... such as food, entertainment, and drinks like iced tea, coffee, hot chocolate, etc.

As for the auto-tips ... I wouldn't recommend shorting these if the service is good, but if money is really an issue, you could adjust the amount at the front desk ... maybe dropping off one of the kids' auto-tips to reduce the cost by $10 per day.

I wouldn't worry too much about the loss of your job. You'll get another one. And, in the meantime, at least you'll have the time to enjoy a nice, leisurely cruise. Enjoy it ... because with acquiring a new job, it might be a while before you'll have adequate vacation time to cruise again.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AAAAmerican]

Did you pay for insurance already? Some policies cover job loss. Did you buy the policy for all the family on one billing? Read your policy in full now ASAP to see if the loss of employment is covered on it.:eek:

Cokes are the fountain variety so saving expense bring your own or get them at a local store overseas the soft drinks are different than American ones.:D

[DFD1]

I doubt that you would have a problem with staff if you bought some cokes when you are ashore in port and brought them on board. I know others who have done this. The cost savings over the length of the cruise might make this a viable option.

Many people cruise and spend almost nothing on board. Some people on here have talked about how they end the cruise having spent nothing other than their tips.

We are not heavy drinkers and do not gamble on board so we don not spend a lot.

I hope you go and have a great time.

[kryos]

Did you pay for insurance already? Some policies cover job loss.
You're kidding, right? I've never heard of that. If so, that would be another option for the OP. I just never realized insurance would pay on that basis.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Pudgesmom]

Check the ports of call boards here and elsewhere to get tips for free and inexpensive attractions located near ports. Some ports are located in industrial areas and may not have walkable sights nearby.

Staying on the ship on a port day is an option many enjoy. The ship and its amenities are much less crowded while many passengers are in port.

Consider returning to the ship for lunch-free!- while you are in port.

Also, bring your own beach toys and perhaps a small cooler to carry drinks if you're doing the Caribbean. Beach towels are provided.
Beth

[happy cruzer]

Insurance that covers any reason to cancel probably is what would cover this one.

my two cents.... I have worked in two industries that have lots of layoffs. I have found that when someone is laid off they need time to heal. If you have your nest egg in place, I highly recommend that you go with your orginal plans and vacation with your family. You all need the time together. Jobs will come and go, and they never love you back. Your family is what matters. The only trip I regret is one I cancelled because of work. All the ones that I took with the "company" telling me that I was needed, I treasure. the company did not hesitate lay people off that weren't needed that quarter. so if the money is spent and you can avoid it, go enjoy your family. The extra expenses on the cruise are definitely controllable. Have the kids bring their own games so they don't need the video arcade, other kid programs are free. Avoid soda, there will be tea and lemonade available, bring your own camera for pictures, use a taxi instead of the cruiseline tours and you will save lots of money. I believe there was a thread on money saving tips, I'll do a search.

Best Wishes.

[happy cruzer]

its a whole board of money saving tips, some are lame and some apply to different lines than HAL, and some are very good

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=59122&highlight=money+saving+tips

[sweetcat]

We took a two week cruise (2 diff lines) and only spent money on tips, some coffees, and one photo for parents. Enjoyed every minute of the cruise. All the food, entertainment and fun was free.

There are movies, shows, pools, chairs, a library, what more could you need.

There is always water available and healthy. Take along some big plastic mugs so you dont have to run to the buffet all the time.

We take some games (cant count on the ship's games having all the pieces). There are some good travel games like UNO or cards, even magnetic checkers. Monopoly can fit in a suitcase with the pieces in a ziplock bag and the board on the bottom. Great family time.

[sweetcat]

Free of additional cost, not free in the long run.

Good luck on the job front.

[sail7seas]

On Maasdam, I noticed that people now had coke cards instead of the sticker and each time they ordered a soft drink, the steward punched it. It is no longer unlimited soft drinks. I think they changed to that system as some people were buying one coke card but were getting drinks for the whole family on just that one. It only takes a few people to ruin it for everyone. You probably will want to verify what the arrangement is before purchasing a coke card.

Sorry about your layoff and wish you success in finding another position that you will be happy and successful at.

I agree........go on your cruise. It will be good for your whole family. Once you accept new employment, it may be a while before you will get time off.

[newmexicoNita]

Of course you have gotten some great idea. Please do take the cruise, you need a vacation and when you get that next job you won't have a chance to do much for a year, probably.

As for expenses, I would watch the soft drink thing, bring some on board for your cabin. This doesn't mean you shouldn't purchase any, but if you have a supply in the cabin you will save some there. As someone said, check to see what you can do in the ports without spending a lot of money and yes, it is possible to spend only the tips on your account, but that is a little unrealistic. You can keep the price down to almost nothing, no charges? You will see that rarely.

Have a great time and good luck with the job market, been there, done that!!!!!

NMnita

[The Tsar]

You'll have your auto-tips of $10 per day per person ... so these will be charged to your room.

--rita

Tips are optional.

[ejbmorr]

Tips are optional.

I would think that not tipping the $10.00 a day that is automatically billed would be the worst solution. The crew that shares this minimal tip works so hard and relies so heavily on that as a needed supplement to their meager wages. You would understand, more than most right now, what an affront that would be to someone who gave fine service throughout your vacation.
The other suggestions are all better options. Go, and enjoy.
We did not take one shore excursion on this last cruise, as we had done two prior cruises that were very excursion-intensive. We had a great time just wandering around each of the ports and towns, sometimes taking the bus that the ship provided for a minimal charge back and forth to the more distant towns from port.

[the2ofus]

TIMELMAN, You have received many good ideas and much encouragement here.

I hope you can be comfortable with the choice of taking the cruise. This chance to spend time on vacation with your children is priceless. Next year you may be too busy with the new job. Their schedules may be so full you can't find time to all be together on vacation. If they are old enough, next year they may have jobs or sports events that can't be disrupted. Seize the opportunity to make memories, you will not regret it.

After the cruise, there WILL be a new job in your future. In the meantime, you can cancel the cable TV, remove the extra-cost telephone services like call-waiting, stop buying that expensive coffee, read your newspapers at the library, learn to cook cheap nutritious meals, rent videos instead of going to the movies. There are tons of ways to cut back on daily expenses without impacting your quality of life at home.

All of these will save you more $$ than the few extra expenses you might incur on the cruise. Been there, done that, survived it. Wish I'd been smart enough to spend a little $$ making memories.

[lougee1043]

Tips are optional.

am i correct in reading your post that you personally dont tip on cruises--how about in restaurants when you dine out??

[Robin7]

I agree........go on your cruise. It will be good for your whole family. Once you accept new employment, it may be a while before you will get time off.





I absolutely agree with Sail and the others who have encourage you to still take your cruise. In 2001, my husband was unemployed for ten months after being laid off and prior to being let go, the company didn't pay him for TEN MONTHS. (Not the first time that happened.) It was a very stressful time for us and included having to sue the company for his back pay. What a nightmare! Right in the middle of it all, our family got together and bought us a cruise. It was our 20th anniversary, and they insisted we go. They even gave us enough cash to cover the newly instituted (then on Princess) auto-tip and some shore excursions. What a family, huh??? It was the greatest trip. We so needed the break! You should definitely still go!!!! Forget about your troubles and make some memories. It really, really helped us get through the next five months of unemployment.

Robin

[The Tsar]

am i correct in reading your post that you personally dont tip on cruises--how about in restaurants when you dine out??

I do not believe in Predetermined Mandatory Group Tipping, but I do believe in tipping directly to those worthy of the tip. Excellent service deserves it's rewards no matter where.

I only pointed out to the original Poster that tipping is optional - For someone out of work - Out of money - One to two hundred dollars (X4) is a lot of money. This extra cost should not stop them from enjoying their planned vacation.

[Roz]

Regarding travel insurance covering cancellation in the event of job loss, I've had personal experience with this.

The policy I had didn't cover it, because I hadn't worked for my employer long enough...I think it had to be 3 yrs., and there were some other stipulations.

I went ahead and took the cruise and am glad I did. I needed a mental health holiday.

IMO, there are ways to cut costs that don't involve stiffing the hardworking crew.

Roz

[tprime76]

I do not believe in Predetermined Mandatory Group Tipping, but I do believe in tipping directly to those worthy of the tip. Excellent service deserves it's rewards no matter where.

I only pointed out to the original Poster that tipping is optional - For someone out of work - Out of money - One to two hundred dollars (X4) is a lot of money. This extra cost should not stop them from enjoying their planned vacation.

I agree with Tsar on the tipping. I don't like pre-determined automatic tipping. If the service is bad, I don't tip well. If the service is great, I tip well above what is 'expected'. On our cruises we have tipped more than $10/pp per day, but if the automatic tip is added, I am less likely to add on to it. This will be my first HAL cruise in November, you can remove the automatic tip and do it normally, right?

[kryos]

On Maasdam, I noticed that people now had coke cards instead of the sticker and each time they ordered a soft drink, the steward punched it. It is no longer unlimited soft drinks.

Oh, I didn't realize they changed that. In January on the Amsterdam, they did have the Coke cards. I am not sure what they cost for a 30-day cruise, but Kakalina would know since she and her DH had them.

If they are using punch cards now, that kinda stinks. How much can it really cost HAL to refill a glass of soda?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I only pointed out to the original Poster that tipping is optional - For someone out of work - Out of money - One to two hundred dollars (X4) is a lot of money. This extra cost should not stop them from enjoying their planned vacation.
That's kinda my feeling too. True, the $10 per day is probably fair if service is good ... but when someone is out of work, and traveling in a family of four, $40 per day in auto-tips could seem a bit much.

Personally, if this were me ... and, yes, I know I'm gonna flamed for saying this ... I would make sure I always left the cabin neat so that my steward didn't have to do a whole lot of picking up after us ... and then I would knock the auto-tips for the kids off at the end of the cruise ... just tipping for my spouse and myself.

I know of several friends ... not HAL cruisers ... who have done this with their families. As one of them told me ... "I have three kids. If I tipped $50 per day, those stewards would be making more than I do!" She and her husband only cruise about every other year, and for the entire family the trip runs over $10 grand. To her, tipping $50 a day, on top of this amount ... plus all the other monies put out for airfare, shore excursions, etc. ... represents a financial hardship. She makes sure to pick up after the kids ... so that the cabin is never a Godawful mess ... and then always knocks at least one child, sometimes two ... off the auto-tip.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[lougee1043]

I do not believe in Predetermined Mandatory Group Tipping, but I do believe in tipping directly to those worthy of the tip. Excellent service deserves it's rewards no matter where.
I only pointed out to the original Poster that tipping is optional - For someone out of work - Out of money - One to two hundred dollars (X4) is a lot of money. This extra cost should not stop them from enjoying their planned vacation.

thanks for the clarification -- i was wondering if you are aware that on certain cruiselines like hal if you remove the auto tip from your ship account and tip directly that person receiving the tip must turn in your cash tip to the tipping pool to be divided among the rest of the crew as if you left the auto tip in place

at 10.00 pp per day on a 7 day cruise the total tip would be 280.00 for the family and not your projected tip of 400.00 to 800.00 as you posted

[Krazy Kruizers]

Sorry to hear that you have lost your job.

Hope all goes well for your cruise and that things will turn for the better when you return home.

[sail7seas]

I . This will be my first HAL cruise in November, you can remove the automatic tip and do it normally, right?

I think you have misunderstood. No it IS NOT NORMAL to remove the automatic tips. It is quite the opposite. It is the very rare guest who chooses to remove the tips from the shipboard account.

ONLY in the case of very poor service (which is sooo rare an event on HAL) would it even be considered minimally acceptable to remove the automatic tips.

I hope we haven't misled you here on this board to think otherwise.

In the event you are not receiving good service, it would be a good idea to discuss it with the Guest Relations Manager, Hotel Manager, Chief Housekeeper, Maitre d' during your cruise in order that the situation could be resolved. To wait until the end to remove your automatic tips and at that point say you haven't been happy with the service is unfair to everyone.......MOST OF ALL YOURSELF. The point is you want good service, isn't it? You don't want to be unhappy your whole cruise if a conversation could have made things right for you. I wouldn't think your preference would be unhappy so that you could then remove the tips saying that you didn't like the service you received.


Or, Maybe, have I totally misunderstood your statement? If so, sorry.

[TIMELMAN]

Thanks Everyone For Your Suggestions . I Still Get Payed About 1/2 While Layedoff So We Will Go On Vacation But Just Wondering Because They Pay Me About 3 Weeks Behind And Cash Is All Gone To Pay For Trip. Ie When Go Back Tto Work Wont Have Any Vacation Time So It Is Good To Go. I Was Wondering About Tips For My Youngest Because He Doesnt Re Quire Much . Iwas Thinking Mayge 35 A Day . Last Cruise I Spent Over 350 On Tips. So Ithouth Maybe This 80 Dallots Could Buy Cokes Or Something . Dont Think I Am Cheap I Spent Thousands On Vacations And They Are Worth Every Penny .just Dont Want To Get In Such A Bind Not To Be Able To Enjoy Myslef.

[newmexicoNita]

I have a question and a comment: Question: on most lines tipping for the children from 3-12 is 1/2 price and under 3 not expected. Am I understanding HAL expects the suggested amount for everyone, regardless of age? If It were me I would adjust for the kids.

My comment though is: yes, tipping is suggested but can be removed. As was said by sail7Seas, removing the tip or adjusting in any way downward is normally only done for poor service and even then, only after attempts to rectify the problems are not satisfactory. Because tipping would be a hardship on someone isn't a reason to adjust downward, anymore than poor food in a restaurant is a reason to withhold any portion of the gratuity from the server.

I hope this clarifies the tipping issue somewhat. Remember $10 per day is dirt cheap for the service we receive. NMNita

[cruisequeen10]

On many of my cruises, I only spend a little bit. One bingo game (maybe), I always bring my own pop and water on board, fridge magnet (but then you can use your room card and put magnets on the back), one drink. My mother spends nothing (only the tips).

[RuthC]

I have a question and a comment: Question: on most lines tipping for the children from 3-12 is 1/2 price and under 3 not expected. Am I understanding HAL expects the suggested amount for everyone, regardless of age?
Yes, you are understanding correctly that HAL charges the $10 pp/pd regardless of age.
If the charge went up as we got older, well, on HAL it could rise to astronomical levels! :eek:

[newmexicoNita]

Yes, you are understanding correctly that HAL charges the $10 pp/pd regardless of age.
If the charge went up as we got older, well, on HAL it could rise to astronomical levels! :eek:
WEll you got a point there; if it did go up I wouldn't want to guess what we would be paying? LOL

[Sunshine91]

GO! As others have said, it could be a while before you get vacation time again. Enjoy this time with your family.

You said you've already paid for a shore excursion? I think HAL lets you cancel up to about 2 days prior to the actual tour & get a refund. Please don't quote me on that, but you could check into it.

As far as the tips for the kids, I too thought that for kids under 10 or 12 the auto-tip was $5 per day. I looked at my HAL Caribbean book, but it didn't say anything about kids. I tried to check the website but got the white screen of death. Sorry. Check with your TA.

Have a great time. :)

[Loralu]

Sorry to hear about your job, I too have just lost mine as a result of downsizing in the Great Michigan Auto Industry. This came as a shock - and I had already paid for 1/2 of the cruise - I plan to use part of my severence package to cover the rest and expenses.. I figure - what the heck.. I can use this vacation now more than ever. Maybe I'll get a job on the cruise ship! As for tipping.. well this being our 3rd cruise - I'm not that experienced, but with HAL we (Mom and I) just left the $10 on our bill and did not leave additional. Some folks on our RC cruise tipped the room stewards on day 1 to ensure the best service, this irritated me- because we did NOT have the best service on RC.. not nearly as good as HAL, and I don't think we should have to bribe servers. Oh well that's my 2 cents.. well I really dont have 2 cents anymore.. not till I get a new job.
Happy sailing everyone!

[TIMELMAN]

I to work in car industry acutually build trucks for chrysler. gas prices sure have hurt. i was layedoff already for two months but this time was a surpise so soon. i think vacation sounds better than ever now. lol

[kryos]

As far as the tips for the kids, I too thought that for kids under 10 or 12 the auto-tip was $5 per day.
No, I have a friend who just came home from a HAL cruise ... and they had two kids traveling with them. $40 bucks a day they were charged for auto-tips. On the last day, though, she said they had the baby's tips deleted from their bill. $30 per day, she said, was plenty. I can't say that I blame her.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[wander]

I SERIOUSLY question the contention that for a baby or small children one should feel fair to tip less for the child(ren).

As a person who worked in service jobs at resorts (waitress and room cleaner) in my younger years, I can tell you most children, regardless of how "good" they are are far more work than most adults. Of course there are exceptions in both groups, I am only speaking in of most of my experiences. For one, the amount of cleaning of table tops and floors is a major difference. Next time you are at a restaurant and a family with one or more children (say under 10), check the floor when they leave compared to the same number of adults at another table. Clutter to work around and pick-up in the hotel rooms was also much, much more with children than all adults IN MOST CASES, NOT ALL.

I am still reminded of this when relatives with small children come to visit, even for a day. While overall the children are very well behaved, they are children! In terms of picking up after them and cleaning floors, tables, chairs, etc. I would take three times as many of our adult friends as their children. And these are generally well behaved kids!

I am really not sure what parents think is not done for children that is done for adults. Maybe they only eat one or two courses and not four or five. This is a difference. But in terms of the cabin, they usually mean one or more extra beds, they certainly mean more towels, glasses, picking-up after, smuggy hand prints, .........

Am I missing something? If so, please let me know and I may treat my guests differently in the future. (I doubt it though). I always try to treat each guest the same and not short-change the children "because they do not create as much work for the staff".

[RuthC]

Excellent points, wander.

[tprime76]

I think you have misunderstood. No it IS NOT NORMAL to remove the automatic tips. It is quite the opposite. It is the very rare guest who chooses to remove the tips from the shipboard account.

ONLY in the case of very poor service (which is sooo rare an event on HAL) would it even be considered minimally acceptable to remove the automatic tips.

I hope we haven't misled you here on this board to think otherwise.

In the event you are not receiving good service, it would be a good idea to discuss it with the Guest Relations Manager, Hotel Manager, Chief Housekeeper, Maitre d' during your cruise in order that the situation could be resolved. To wait until the end to remove your automatic tips and at that point say you haven't been happy with the service is unfair to everyone.......MOST OF ALL YOURSELF. The point is you want good service, isn't it? You don't want to be unhappy your whole cruise if a conversation could have made things right for you. I wouldn't think your preference would be unhappy so that you could then remove the tips saying that you didn't like the service you received.


Or, Maybe, have I totally misunderstood your statement? If so, sorry.



I prefer to tip individually, and in most cases, far exceeding what is recommended. I think it is more personal. With that in mind, I would prefer to handle each tipee's (is that a word?) amount individually. It isn't for the purpose of responding to bad service; it is for the complete opposite: responding to those who provide service WELL beyond what I expect. I just think that the automatic tipping makes it less personal, but that is just how I have read it. I have yet to go on a cruise that uses the system.

[Scrumpy]

I prefer to tip individually, and in most cases, far exceeding what is recommended. I think it is more personal. With that in mind, I would prefer to handle each tipee's (is that a word?) amount individually. It isn't for the purpose of responding to bad service; it is for the complete opposite: responding to those who provide service WELL beyond what I expect. I just think that the automatic tipping makes it less personal, but that is just how I have read it. I have yet to go on a cruise that uses the system.

The trouble with removing auto-tip and rewarding individuals is that on HAL, you are not really rewarding individuals. Those tips are then pooled and your personal gesture becomes impersonal once again - and spread throughout the staff. IMO, it is pointless to remove the auto-tip and tip specific people.

[AlohaPride]

I SERIOUSLY question the contention that for a baby or small children one should feel fair to tip less for the child(ren).

As a person who worked in service jobs at resorts (waitress and room cleaner) in my younger years, I can tell you most children, regardless of how "good" they are are far more work than most adults. Of course there are exceptions in both groups, I am only speaking in of most of my experiences. For one, the amount of cleaning of table tops and floors is a major difference. Next time you are at a restaurant and a family with one or more children (say under 10), check the floor when they leave compared to the same number of adults at another table. Clutter to work around and pick-up in the hotel rooms was also much, much more with children than all adults IN MOST CASES, NOT ALL.

I am still reminded of this when relatives with small children come to visit, even for a day. While overall the children are very well behaved, they are children! In terms of picking up after them and cleaning floors, tables, chairs, etc. I would take three times as many of our adult friends as their children. And these are generally well behaved kids!

I am really not sure what parents think is not done for children that is done for adults. Maybe they only eat one or two courses and not four or five. This is a difference. But in terms of the cabin, they usually mean one or more extra beds, they certainly mean more towels, glasses, picking-up after, smuggy hand prints, .........

Am I missing something? If so, please let me know and I may treat my guests differently in the future. (I doubt it though). I always try to treat each guest the same and not short-change the children "because they do not create as much work for the staff".

Parents might remove the tip for babies and small children because that's 4 people in one room. A $40 tip per day then really isn't a tip. 2 adults and 2 SMALL children would never eat enough food at a restaurant to warrant a $40 tip. Now, I really have no business posting because 1) I don't have kids (yet) and 2) because I haven't seen what the daily room cleaning looks like. On the second point, if the room cleaning is anything like in a hotel, then the cleaning isn't really "cleaning" as it is tidying up. I wouldn't know, but I don't think the staff have enough time to clean all the smudges that children leave - especially if the family is in a suite :o Therefore, I would guess that the cleaning staff is not really cleaning up after the children until after the family checks out?

Is this true? Again, I don't know. It's just my best guess as to why parents would remove the daily tip for their kids.

[serendipity1499]

The trouble with removing auto-tip and rewarding individuals is that on HAL, you are not really rewarding individuals. Those tips are then pooled and your personal gesture becomes impersonal once again - and spread throughout the staff. IMO, it is pointless to remove the auto-tip and tip specific people.

However, If you leave the Auto Tip in Place & tip an extra amount the individual steward who receives the Extra tip is permitted to keep it!

We tip a litle extra for exceptional service, however it is certainily not expected...In addition, we mention the names of the stewards who gave exceptional service, on our comment cards..They really appreciate this! However, if the service is mediocre we do not tip an extra amount..

Happy cruising everyone..Betty

[zaandam_2]

alohapride - the rooms are serviced twice daily. hotels (at least the ones i stay in) don't even come close to the level of service a decent steward provides. even the tubs are cleaned twice daily. i don't have kids (THANK GOD) but having worked in the service industry for many years I can say most are much messier than adults, and require extra work.

[hammybee]

Tipping is discretionary between the tipper and tipee.

It makes sense for a cruise lines to recommend tipping for more than 2 in a cabin because it's more work for the Cabin Steward. There are more beds to be changed, made and drawn. There are more towels. And usually, there is more stuff that has to be worked around. It takes longer to maintain these cabins.

I don't see a lot of difference if the 3rd and/or 4th passenger is 5 or 55.

That's just me. Peace, love and joy to all.

[richwmn]

In my experiencee, the cabins are cleaned more often than twice a day. I have been on several cruises where I went back to the cabin for a few minutes and ate a piece of fruit after the cleaning was done. When I went back later, the core was removed and fresh fruit was there in its place. At times it has seemed that every time I left the cabin the steward checked to make sure everything was still ok. One of the common jokes the CD uses is about asking the steward how he keeps the room so clean, the answer being that he sleeps under the bed.

Rich

[AlohaPride]

Wow! Seems they work much harder than room service does in hotels. I guess my point was that the poster who mentioned taking off the tip for the infant made sense as an infant can't really make THAT much of a mess (aside from poopy diapers and spit up). Oh well, this whole tipping thing has really got me torn. I will have to decide what to do as I experience the service myself :D

In any event, as a hypothetical question, what if someone took off the auto tip and then passed out very expensive international calling cards as a "tip" would THIS be put in the "pot" as well? If so, how does it get divided? (just playing devil's advocate here) :D

[kryos]

Tipping is discretionary between the tipper and tipee.

It makes sense for a cruise lines to recommend tipping for more than 2 in a cabin because it's more work for the Cabin Steward.
I don't think it matters a hoot how many people are in the cabin ... rather, what does matter is how neat or sloppy those people are. I'd bet that if we could get a cabin steward to post to this thread he would be the first person to tell us that there have been cabins with only ONE person in them that took him longer to clean than the cabin next store occupied by four people ... because that one person was too lazy to get off their ass and put their food tray in the hallway after they were done eating, too lazy to pick up their discarded clothes and organize them in some fashion, too sloppy to take care not to soil the sheets while they were eating in bed, etc.

Personally, I think the auto-tip should be per cabin ... nothing more or less. It should be based on two people per cabin, including those cabins occupied by solos. It takes a basic amount of time to service any cabin, and that time is probably the same for a solo occupant as it is for a couple. Then, you use your conscious as your guide beyond that. If you know you've had four sloppy people in that cabin for the week, and you know that the steward really had to do a lot of extra work to keep your cabin immaculate, then you add to the tip.

Further, I think people in the upper level suites should pay a higher auto-tip. After all, they get service more than twice a day ... anytime they step out of their cabin, there is a steward ready to rush in and straighten it up. They should obviously pay a bit more for this extra attentive service.

But, again, all the auto-tip is is a "suggested" guideline. Of course, we can all adjust this based on our own perceptions of what the service is worth. Personally, I would never pay $40 a day in auto-tips if I had a couple of children in the cabin with me. As long as I kept up after those kids and made sure the cabin was never overly messy, I wouldn't see the need to tip extra for both of the kids ... especially if one was just a baby. I look at it this way. When we go to a restaurant, we generally tip based on the total of our bill. Generally, when someone brings a baby or a very young child out to dine with them, they usually just feed that child off of their own plate ... hence, the bill wouldn't be higher with the children and the tip wouldn't be higher either.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

In my experiencee, the cabins are cleaned more often than twice a day. I have been on several cruises where I went back to the cabin for a few minutes and ate a piece of fruit after the cleaning was done. When I went back later, the core was removed and fresh fruit was there in its place. At times it has seemed that every time I left the cabin the steward checked to make sure everything was still ok. One of the common jokes the CD uses is about asking the steward how he keeps the room so clean, the answer being that he sleeps under the bed.

I can't speak to how other lines do it (other than Princess), but regular cabins on HAL are cleaned twice per day ... morning and evening. Maybe you were staying in one of the upper-end suites? If so, yeah, while the stewards do their regular cleaning trips twice a day, they do pop in and tidy them up anytime you leave them in between those regular cleanings.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

alohapride - the rooms are serviced twice daily. hotels (at least the ones i stay in) don't even come close to the level of service a decent steward provides. even the tubs are cleaned twice daily.
I'm not an expert on hotels ... because, thank God, I don't have to stay in them that often ... but, don't most hotels offer an evening "turn down" service that only requires the guest to ask for? Of course, most of us never bother to request it, but it is my understanding that it is available at most decent hotels. Of course, if it was requested, I would think the cleaning person would also tidy up the room again while they were there to turn down the bed.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Scrumpy]

Of course, Betty :) Additional tipping is welcome and they get to keep it. I think that in the context of trying to save money without stiffing the staff it is more likely (or at least more desirable) for someone to leave the auto-tip, but forego tipping an additional amount.

I think our stewards work harder than almost any hotel staff we've ever encountered. Our cabins are consistently cleaner, well-stocked, and the stewards accomodate special requests without question or hassle. I've had hotel staff who did as little as possible - and it showed. Some are wonderful, but many skate through the rooms as quickly as possible.

When dining with children in our party (thankfully a rare occurrence ;) ), we tend to tip even more than usual. As a former server/bartender, I am very conscious of those who tip little or nothing and feel almost a calling to make up for that. And, some with children also under-tip, which adds insult to injury. Children can't help being somewhat messy. I just had two of the nicest, most thoughtful and incredibly well-behaved children visiting. But, they still made messes that exceeded those made by their parents or us. Lots of crumbs on the kitchen floor, anything smearable showed up on the tables or chairs, etc. It just comes with the territory. The price someone is willing to pay for a person to clean that up is, of course, up to them, but I would think twice about completely eliminating the auto-tip for a person of any age.

[SDHALFAN]

In any event, as a hypothetical question, what if someone took off the auto tip and then passed out very expensive international calling cards as a "tip" would THIS be put in the "pot" as well? If so, how does it get divided? (just playing devil's advocate here) :D.

On one of my recent cruises (I can't remember which Dam ship it was) someone asked the CD this very question and his answer was (words to the effect of): "as long as you do not tip cash then they can keep whatever you give them". We all took this to mean that if you give some sort of gift or international calling cards then the stewards need not report them. As a result of which, on my last couple of cruises I have left the auto-tip in place and given out several phone cards as a tip to each of those who I think gave me outstanding service.

One thing to bear in mind though is the type of phone card you choose. Some phone cards are difficult for them to use and their card of choice, I have heard, is a card called something like "Hello Asia" (or "Call Asia" - I don't remember the exact name). Since I live near a community with an enormous Filipino population I went there to buy the cards. The best one I found, upon recommendation from many Filipinos and Filipinas, was a card called "Lucky Card". For $10.00 this card provides 422 minutes worth of calling to Indonesia; for the Phillipines it was slightly less minutes. The 422 minutes are for calls placed from here in the U.S. but they can also use the cards in another country although they will get less minutes' usage.

I remember googling the "Hello Asia" cards and found that you can buy them online, however I don't know about the "Lucky" cards because there was a store right here where I could buy them.

I hope that this helps because I hate to see these hard-working men and women get "stiffed" on tips.

Happy cruising everyone, and roll on October 22nd when I board the ms Zaandam.

Valerie:)

[RuthC]

... because that one person was too lazy to get off their ass and put their food tray in the hallway after they were done eating,

I would never put my room service tray in the passageway when I'm done eating.:eek: And it's not because I'm lazy, either. It's because it's requested that you leave it inside the cabin---putting it in the passageway is a bad idea. (Sometimes there's a card asking that you dial a # to request removal of the tray.)
Ships move. They pitch and roll. Glassware and other things left on a floor in the passageway can go rolling into someone's path and cause an accident.

As far as the amount of work done goes, I never thought it had anything to do with the amount of "mess" in the cabin, or how much I dropped on the floor in the dining room. I thought it had something to do with the duties of the steward.
It doesn't matter if it's an adult, child, or baby in a crib---the bed needs to be made, towels need replacing, wastebaskets are emptied.
Whether or not it's a huge steak or mac and cheese---the plate is still delivered.
What's age got to do with any of that?

[Scrumpy]

I don't think it matters a hoot how many people are in the cabin ... rather, what does matter is how neat or sloppy those people are. I'd bet that if we could get a cabin steward to post to this thread he would be the first person to tell us that there have been cabins with only ONE person in them that took him longer to clean than the cabin next store occupied by four people ... because that one person was too lazy to get off their ass and put their food tray in the hallway after they were done eating, too lazy to pick up their discarded clothes and organize them in some fashion, too sloppy to take care not to soil the sheets while they were eating in bed, etc.

Personally, I think the auto-tip should be per cabin ... nothing more or less. It should be based on two people per cabin, including those cabins occupied by solos. It takes a basic amount of time to service any cabin, and that time is probably the same for a solo occupant as it is for a couple. Then, you use your conscious as your guide beyond that. If you know you've had four sloppy people in that cabin for the week, and you know that the steward really had to do a lot of extra work to keep your cabin immaculate, then you add to the tip.

Further, I think people in the upper level suites should pay a higher auto-tip. After all, they get service more than twice a day ... anytime they step out of their cabin, there is a steward ready to rush in and straighten it up. They should obviously pay a bit more for this extra attentive service.

But, again, all the auto-tip is is a "suggested" guideline. Of course, we can all adjust this based on our own perceptions of what the service is worth. Personally, I would never pay $40 a day in auto-tips if I had a couple of children in the cabin with me. As long as I kept up after those kids and made sure the cabin was never overly messy, I wouldn't see the need to tip extra for both of the kids ... especially if one was just a baby. I look at it this way. When we go to a restaurant, we generally tip based on the total of our bill. Generally, when someone brings a baby or a very young child out to dine with them, they usually just feed that child off of their own plate ... hence, the bill wouldn't be higher with the children and the tip wouldn't be higher either.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Many parents give their children cookies and crackers - these inevitably produce crumbs. Maybe some folks crawl around on the floor and pick those up, but I'd bet they are the minority. I have no problem with children having snacks, btw. I just know those snacks can help make a room messier. Proper clean-up requires not only running a vacuum, but often moving everything around, including furniture, sofa cushions, etc. This takes time and effort beyond the norm. While I might leave a few fingerprints on a door, window or mirror, I am unlikely to do it with jam on my hands. I'm also more likely to be careful about sand after a beach excursion, the way I handle liquids, and I am not nearly as likely to have an "accident" of any kind. And, in the event that I produce something unhygienic, I am likely to wrap it securely and put it in a bin where it's unlikely a steward would even know what it is. Not so with the way some folks handle their baby's diapers - which is simply disgusting. Yes, I also count the gag factor into the tipping equation. You add up all the things that take an extra minute or two and it is not a negligible difference - at least not IMHO.

The trouble with using your conscience as a guide is that too many people will do anything to avoid leaving a tip. Bottom line - some of them will use any excuse, but the truth is that they are cheap and/or thoughtless. I have a relative that I haven't dined out with in years and years. I find my choices are to tip for her or be humiliated or avoid her completely. I've chosen to avoid her. I'll compromise on a lot of things, but stiffing service staff is something I feel strongly enough about to make me avoid a person who thinks it's okay. One of the very first things my foreign husband learned was when/how to tip.

Sure, it's accepted practice to tip based on the price of the meal. Could I personally in good conscience dine out with a child who makes clean-up twice as difficult as it would normally be and then figure a strict percentage based on cost? No.

[Sunshine91]

I believe that a portion of the auto-tip pool goes to the service workers who have no direct pax contact - laundry, Lido servers, cooks, bar backs, etc. If you remove the auto-tip & only tip those you actually have contact with, thinking you are making it more "personal", you're not. That's why they have to turn-in the cash to the pool, & only get to keep what you give that is above the $10ppd.

It's crazy & it's confusing & it's out of control. Sure wish the service industry just paid workers a decent wage & tipping was not common practice. But then I think little by little it would just creep back into use as folks tried to say "thank you" or "well done" because they don't know any other way than good ol' cash. :)

[bdcbbq]

Therefore, I would guess that the cleaning staff is not really cleaning up after the children until after the family checks out?

Is this true? Again, I don't know. It's just my best guess as to why parents would remove the daily tip for their kids.

On HAL, they clean everything. Sometimes too well. On a thread several years ago, a woman posted that she would take her old "ratty undergarments" to wear on the cruise and throw them out after each use in the cabin trash. The first day she came back after her cabin was cleaned, the "ratty undergarments" were "saved" by the cabin steward and returned to her.

[AlohaPride]

On HAL, they clean everything. Sometimes too well. On a thread several years ago, a woman posted that she would take her old "ratty undergarments" to wear on the cruise and throw them out after each use in the cabin trash. The first day she came back after her cabin was cleaned, the "ratty undergarments" were "saved" by the cabin steward and returned to her.

That's gross...and a bit unnerving the the cleaners went through her trash....:eek:

[hammybee]

because that one person was too lazy to get off their ass and put their food tray in the hallway after they were done eating, too lazy to pick up their discarded clothes and organize them in some fashion, too sloppy to take care not to soil the sheets while they were eating in bed, etc.Blue skies ...--rita

Rita, why don't you tell us how you really feel:)

Some passengers are slobs and some are not. But unless 3-4 passengers sleep in the same bed ( don't go there Copper Guy) and share the same towel, there is more work involved when there are 3-4 in a cabin. And if it we my triple/quad, I would have no problem with tipping at the suggested per diwm. That's just me.

[tprime76]

The trouble with removing auto-tip and rewarding individuals is that on HAL, you are not really rewarding individuals. Those tips are then pooled and your personal gesture becomes impersonal once again - and spread throughout the staff. IMO, it is pointless to remove the auto-tip and tip specific people.

Thanks for the info on how it works on there, I didn't know that they had to pool the handed in tips. I am glad I found out before our cruise in November. Having been on only RCCL line cruises, it is a little bit different in terms of how things work. While I still think I will prefer the individual tipping, I will do as serendipity1499 suggests and find a way to add on to the minimum tipping as we go along.

Thanks again for helping me out on this one and I am sorry if this little side conversation hijacked this thread a little.

[kryos]

I would never put my room service tray in the passageway when I'm done eating.:eek: And it's not because I'm lazy, either. It's because it's requested that you leave it inside the cabin---putting it in the passageway is a bad idea.
I'm sorry ... I failed to add that after putting it in the hallway, you call that number for its removal. When you do, room service picks it right up within minutes. At least that was the suggested "disposal" method on my last cruise. But, instead, some people just leave it laying around the cabin ... where exactly what you say can happen ... a cup tips over because the ship rolls, and now there's a mess on the carpet, etc.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Rita, why don't you tell us how you really feel:)

Some passengers are slobs and some are not. But unless 3-4 passengers sleep in the same bed ( don't go there Copper Guy) and share the same towel, there is more work involved when there are 3-4 in a cabin. And if it we my triple/quad, I would have no problem with tipping at the suggested per diwm. That's just me.
I think that's great to tip per person ... all I am saying is that some people just cannot afford that. Oftentimes they only brought the kids on the cruise because it would be more trouble (and probably expense too) to leave them at home with family members. Tipping $40 per day could be a real stretch for some of these families, and all I am saying is that I see nothing wrong with knocking off an auto-tip for one or both of the kids, as long as mom and dad picks up after them and doesn't leave the cabin steward a major mess to deal with everyday.

True, they are all gonna use a bed ... and a towel ... but disposing of a dirty towel and replacing it takes seconds ... the bed maybe a few minutes more. I still think a $30 as opposed to $40 auto-tip would adequately compensate your steward for this trouble.

If you can afford to tip $40, that's great ... all I am saying is that there are some people ... one friend of mine comes to mind ... who honestly can't. She only cruises once every other year ... and even then does it on a budget. In fact, she only cruises because it's the cheapest vacation alternative she's found with kids ... not because she particularly prefers it as a vacation choice. The family would much prefer Disney World, but it is priced out of their reach ... even a Disney cruise is out of her budget. In her case, she does the best she can. She finds the cruise line that offers her the best itinerary ... the most cruise for her money ... and sails with that one. It just so happens that the past few times, that line was HAL. If it was Carnival next time, she'd go Carnival. All she is looking for is a week's getaway for her hardworking husband, herself and the kids. And if cutting down on the auto-tips ... telling the kids no when they ask for that toy in the gift shop, or doing a beach day instead of that excursion little Johnny wanted to go on in Grand Cayman let's her take that rare vacation, I say all the power to her.

By the way, just so you know what kind of budget these people were under ... believe me, this vacation was done on the cheap. They got a great "last minute" deal on the cruise. I could have these prices wrong, but I think each child cost them something like $300. At that price, they couldn't afford NOT to take the kids. They all shared an inside cabin, and they made do for the week by spending as little time in that cabin as possible. Then, too ... I remember being amazed when my friend told me that their onboard bill at the end of the cruise, after auto-tips, was under $200 ... and much of that was things her older son wanted and paid for out of his own allowance and savings. She brought her own sodas onboard and her son only had soda in the cabin. She brought a sippy cup for the toddler and filled it with juice, lemonade, whatever in the Lido whenever it ran empty. The whole family brought large travel mugs onboard to fill with drinks from the Lido so that Coke cards were not needed. The family did not indulge in the Pinnacle Grill, nor spa treatments, nor gambling. But they sure did have a lot of fun on the cruise because they did their research and found things that were cheap or free that they could all do together. That last cruise was one of their best vacations yet, even though the budget was particularly tight when they took it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Randyk47]

Interesting discussion. On our last cruise on the Volendam we got room service "first breakfast" every day. (DW is not ready for the public until she's had at least one, if not more, cups of coffee in the morning. :) ) There was a card on the tray every morning that very specifically said to not put the tray in the hallway. It did say if you wanted to get the tray removed called room service and they'd come and get it but leave it in the cabin, not the hallway.

[wander]

OK, if I understand the thinking of Kyros and some others, it goes something like this. (Brother, will I ever be flamed.)

"Hey, let's take the family on a cruise."

"Great idea. But, can we afford it."

"Sure, we will just stiff the staff for some of their money.

We will just pretend there are only 2 or 3 of us instead of 4. It will allow us to take a trip that we maybe should not and pass the problem of not enough money onto them."

"Sounds like a good plan to me"

"Yeah, we can have our family fun time and to xxxx with them and their families."

[newmexicoNita]

Wow! Seems they work much harder than room service does in hotels. I guess my point was that the poster who mentioned taking off the tip for the infant made sense as an infant can't really make THAT much of a mess (aside from poopy diapers and spit up). Oh well, this whole tipping thing has really got me torn. I will have to decide what to do as I experience the service myself :D

In any event, as a hypothetical question, what if someone took off the auto tip and then passed out very expensive international calling cards as a "tip" would THIS be put in the "pot" as well? If so, how does it get divided? (just playing devil's advocate here) :D
I don't remember coming back after a few minutes and having something picked up; in the olden days yes, but not now: that being said, yes, the service on a cruise ship is much better than in any hotel I have been in and I have stayed at some pretty nice ones. As for having to put it in the pot< yes they are supposed to and it gets devided pretty much the same way the $10 per day gets devided. Now as for tipping with small kids in the cabin: I do beleive kids can be as messy and demanding as adults, but some lines do suggest a smaller amount for kids> These are probably the more family friendly cruise ships. This is the same as some lines charging full price for younger ones and others not.

I beleive this thread was about whether or not the OP should follow through with his cruise. Someone or ones suggested not tipping as a way to save a lot of money, stating those servicing the cabin would understand. Others of us have said, it isn't the service persons problem; tipping is the only income (or almost) the crew gets and $10 per day isn't really very much when you consider the food service, room stewards, etc. Whether the recommended $10 should apply to all 4, that is a matter of opinion. I just read the article on tipping: HAL suggests $5 per day for kids under 12. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

I'm not an expert on hotels ... because, thank God, I don't have to stay in them that often ... but, don't most hotels offer an evening "turn down" service that only requires the guest to ask for? Of course, most of us never bother to request it, but it is my understanding that it is available at most decent hotels. Of course, if it was requested, I would think the cleaning person would also tidy up the room again while they were there to turn down the bed.

Blue skies ...

--rita
Rita, turn down service, very similar to what we expect on the ships was very popular about 15-20 years ago. It was a feature offered to those who booked an executive or tower level room. yes, you got clean towels, the beds turned down and usually a chocolate or cookie on your pillow. This isn't nearly as widespread in today's major hotel chains although you may see it from time to time. Of course those rooms are much more expensive as well. NMnita

[kakalina]

This is thread is starting to get just a wee bit out of control and personal. Some of you are not being very nice. We have a wonderful outlet here to express our views and opinions. That is what they are personal opinions and as such should be treated with a modicom of respect.
Tipping is a "hot" topic here, it always has been. It is a personal decision and no one should be made to feel "cheap,bad or indifferant" to the problems that the crew may have with their families and finances. Truthfully, that is not our problem, not to say we should not care but that it isn't our requirement to do so.
We should all be aware that if HAL values its crew and staff so highly then perhaps it would be best if they paid wages accordingly. They do not but it is not the passengers duty to remedy this. It is a choice and people should not be condemned because of that very personal choice.
Sorry, but one of the previous posts made me get on my soapbox, luckily a rare occurance.

[dew2004]

You don't have to spend much - your tips which would be $40 per day with four people. Pop cards - I am not sure if HAL has them but I think so - with other lines they are $20-30 per person. Other than that you can have a perfectly lovely cruise without spending any further money. There is enough food and entertainment that does not cost money so that if you are trying not to spend anything further - it can certainly be done.

[dew2004]

You don't have to spend much - your tips which would be $40 per day with four people. Pop cards - I am not sure if HAL has them but I think so - with other lines they are $20-30 per person. Other than that you can have a perfectly lovely cruise without spending any further money. There is enough food and entertainment that does not cost money so that if you are trying not to spend anything further - it can certainly be done.

[Scrumpy]

Thanks for the info on how it works on there, I didn't know that they had to pool the handed in tips. I am glad I found out before our cruise in November. Having been on only RCCL line cruises, it is a little bit different in terms of how things work. While I still think I will prefer the individual tipping, I will do as serendipity1499 suggests and find a way to add on to the minimum tipping as we go along.

Thanks again for helping me out on this one and I am sorry if this little side conversation hijacked this thread a little.

You're very welcome; it is one of those tips (ha ha ha) that make Cruise Critic so valuable. I wouldn't have had a clue if I hadn't read it here first.

The thread took on a life of its own. It happens often, so please don't worry or feel responsible. :) Have fun in November!

[jasdat]

I Was Wondring How Much 4 People (2 Adults And 2 Kids) Might Need To Spend On Board? We Dont Drink Wine Or Such Just Cokes.i Have Already Paid For 1 Shore Excursion.i Have Neverd Sailed Hal And Wondering How Many Things Are Out Of Pocket.

Timelman
When are you cruising
I,ve just got off the Zuiderdam and due to confusion about getting free Soda Cards to me I have 1 1/2 cards left.BTW, great cruise, got upgraded to Delux Superior # 6156.
If these are usable on any HAL ship you are welcome to them
Post your EMail and I'll contact you

[newmexicoNita]

This is thread is starting to get just a wee bit out of control and personal. Some of you are not being very nice. We have a wonderful outlet here to express our views and opinions. That is what they are personal opinions and as such should be treated with a modicom of respect.
Tipping is a "hot" topic here, it always has been. It is a personal decision and no one should be made to feel "cheap,bad or indifferant" to the problems that the crew may have with their families and finances. Truthfully, that is not our problem, not to say we should not care but that it isn't our requirement to do so.
We should all be aware that if HAL values its crew and staff so highly then perhaps it would be best if they paid wages accordingly. They do not but it is not the passengers duty to remedy this. It is a choice and people should not be condemned because of that very personal choice.
Sorry, but one of the previous posts made me get on my soapbox, luckily a rare occurance.I understand what you are trying to say and yes, it is personal, but tipping is still expected. Of course we all know the cruise lines, restaurants, hotels etc could pay better wages and eliminate (spelling) tipping period; if that were to happen the prices would go up accordingly so what would be the point? The good thing about the tipping policy as it is: the service givers do not pay income tax on all their tips. I have a daughter that worked her way through college because of tips (well we helped too) and our granddaughters husband is in the same boat now. He is still in school, working 30 hours a week (well he is a trainer now, not a full time waiter) and they depend on tips to help pay the bills. Would you rather pay more for your cruise and not tip or have some control over how much you reward good service? NMnita

[TIMELMAN]

mY EMAIL IS TIMELMAN@AOL.COM WE WILL BE ON THE 10/21/2006 SAILING OF THE ZUIDERMAN. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMITS AND TIME. I HAVE LEARNED A GREAT DEAL FORM THESE MESSAGE BOARDS. THANKS FOR THE GOOD WORDS THEY ARE SO ENCOURAGEING.

[zaandam_2]

have a great time, timelman. i'm sure you never expected your original question to spark this sort of debate.

remember, nobody ever said 'i wished i spent more time at work' on their deathbed.

[kryos]

OK, if I understand the thinking of Kyros and some others, it goes something like this. (Brother, will I ever be flamed.)

"Hey, let's take the family on a cruise."

"Great idea. But, can we afford it."

"Sure, we will just stiff the staff for some of their money.

But, the question is ... do you really believe you are "stiffing" the staff. I don't believe that is the way some people look at it. They are not adverse to tipping ... and they will tip ... just not necessarily what HAL feels is the appropriate amount.

Tipping, in my opinion, has gotten way out of hand in our society today. Some people just feel that it's ridiculous to be expected to pay the wages of employees that companies don't wish to pay. This goes for cruise lines, convenience stores, fast food joints ... you name it.

I don't believe my friend was stiffing the staff at all. She was merely leaving the tip amount that she felt appropriate ... and in her estimation leaving a $10 a day tip for a toddler was not necessary ... not when she was already leaving it for the remaining three in her party. She works hard for her money, every day. She doesn't get tips ... neither do I. I could just imagine expecting someone to tip me for rushing their report through on the printer and getting it into their hands by the time they grabbed an elevator from their floor to the one on which the data center I work in is located. They'd laugh in my face. I'm just happy to get a thank you ... and sometimes don't even get that.

The thing I laugh at when I read all of these tipping threads is how a lot of people get high and mighty about generosity in tipping, yet you can't help but wonder what THEY do when the time comes to stuff those tip envelopes. How many of them are as generous as they make out to be when the rubber meets the road and it is time for them to decide on what to tip. I'm not directing this to you ... I'm talking in generalities here.

I've mentioned on this board before about the "old days" on Holland America ... and the one cruise I took on the line BEFORE the auto-tip program was put into place. Do you know that the line had to close down all of the alternative dining venues on the last night of the cruise in order to force people to eat in the dining room? Why do you think that was? It was because hoards of people would purposely order room service that last night, or eat in the Lido, specifically so that they could avoid their dining room stewards on the last night of the cruise so that they would not have to tip them. Check your history. HAL actually did that. They had to do it because a significant number of people would try to get out of tipping if they could. With all the alternative dining venues closed, now they had no choice. If they wanted to eat, they would have to go to the dining room on that last night, and while they could still opt not to tip, they would at least have to face their service staff and more than likely be shamed into giving them at least something.

That's why I say tipping is a very, very personal matter ... to be decided upon based on how you see fit and what you can afford ... and it's not something that anyone should be made to feel bad about if maybe they can't afford to be as generous as they may like to be ... or that they feel is warranted.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[ejbmorr]

It sounds as though throughout this thread most agree that the service crew on ships are really not paid well and the cruise lines factor these tips into what they feel will be the final amount that the crew will receive in pay. I do not feel that withholding the tips is at all fair to those who work so hard and with such a positive attitude.
Perhaps it would be a lot better if the cruiselines simply added the $10.00 per day to each fare when quoting prices and then advertised the fares as -no tipping required-. I think I have heard that phrase before :). It is making more and more sense as I read some of the reasons folks give for opting to withhold much-deserved minimal expressions of thanks for all that is done to make vacations on ships so memorable.

[kryos]

Perhaps it would be a lot better if the cruiselines simply added the $10.00 per day to each fare when quoting prices and then advertised the fares as -no tipping required-. I think I have heard that phrase before :). It is making more and more sense as I read some of the reasons folks give for opting to withhold much-deserved minimal expressions of thanks for all that is done to make vacations on ships so memorable.
You know somethnig? I would actually prefer a basic service charge ... a reasonable one ... non-adjustable by the passenger ... and then a no tipping allowed policy. Force the "dammed" line to pay decent wages to their onboard staff.

I agree ... the service staff works hard and with rare exceptions are certainly worthy of as much of a tip as we can possibly give them. But what I do have a problem with in today's society is how many corporations will purposely pay their employees sub-standard wages on the basis that their tips will make up for it. In essence now those corporations are expecting ME to ensure their employees can feed their families. I'm sorry ... but that's just not fair. If I were independently wealthy, maybe I wouldn't care so much ... but I'm a working stiff too and I work my buns off to pull together the money to take cruises. Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years and most of the summer holidays, I'm here at work ... pulling double shifts ... so that I can sock some extra money into the cruise kitty. Other times, I'll scarf up extra overtime hours that become available that no one else wants to work ... just so that I can take my next cruise. I'll also do without a lot of other things so that I can cruise. I don't have every electronic gadget known to man ... and I don't even drive. I schlep around on public transit so that the money I save can go into the travel kitty. And, while cruising is certainly a good value, I don't think any of us could call it cheap, and it really gets my goat when people expect me not only to pay my fare, but also to subsidize the wages of their employees so that the corporation can get rich, while I get poorer. This goes for land-based operations too ... I'm not just picking on the cruise lines.

So, yes ... to be honest, I would rather see the cruise lines go to a minimum service charge ... don't even call it a tip ... call it a service charge or a "resort fee," that cannot be removed by the passenger, and then establish a no tipping allowed ... not no tipping required ... policy. Let the cruise line pay a liveable wage to their employees so that they don't have to depend upon tips and I don't have to be made to feel like a second class citizen if perhaps I don't tip as much as the person in the cabin nextdoor.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kakalina]

Rita, well and succinctly put. I must agree with many points that you make. I would much prefer a non removable fee of some sort. It would save a lot of folks needless worry about tipping policies.
I also feel you are correct re companies paying employees a living wage, we live in a right to work state and see it all the time. When a company values its employes it is normal to show that evaluation in paychecks.
We have friends in Indonesia ( for example ) that have told us with what one of them can make on a cruise ship in 4-5 years, they can return to their country, purchase a home and a business and be set for life barring trouble. Sometimes it is the perception that someone is not receiving a good wage when in reality the wage for them is great.
This is not pro or con on tipping. I just agree with a lot you say

[sirarthur]

I prefer to tip individually, and in most cases, far exceeding what is recommended. I think it is more personal. With that in mind, I would prefer to handle each tipee's (is that a word?) amount individually. It isn't for the purpose of responding to bad service; it is for the complete opposite: responding to those who provide service WELL beyond what I expect. I just think that the automatic tipping makes it less personal, but that is just how I have read it. I have yet to go on a cruise that uses the system.


I agree with you but the fact of life is that experience shows that too many folks simply do not tip at all or tip so few and insufficiently. This at least insures some uniform recognition of the good service we all receive. When you have lost your job (unexpectedly....otherwise don't take the cruise) adjusting your tips for the family is not inappropriate. However, I would go out of my way to let those who serve me know that they are apppreciated....You can do this in many creative ways other than giving them money. Good luck!

[sirarthur]

This is thread is starting to get just a wee bit out of control and personal. Some of you are not being very nice. We have a wonderful outlet here to express our views and opinions. That is what they are personal opinions and as such should be treated with a modicom of respect.
Tipping is a "hot" topic here, it always has been. It is a personal decision and no one should be made to feel "cheap,bad or indifferant" to the problems that the crew may have with their families and finances. Truthfully, that is not our problem, not to say we should not care but that it isn't our requirement to do so.
We should all be aware that if HAL values its crew and staff so highly then perhaps it would be best if they paid wages accordingly. They do not but it is not the passengers duty to remedy this. It is a choice and people should not be condemned because of that very personal choice.
Sorry, but one of the previous posts made me get on my soapbox, luckily a rare occurance.

I am sorry but I have to disagree. This has been a GOOD thread. People have expressed their opinions which you may or may not agree BUT the discussion is good. Calm down, enjoy.

[wander]

Not really much different. In both cases base wages are low and they are dependent on tips for most of their income. I too would prefer to just have prices raised to cover the expected tips, and then have no tipping. But, that is not the way it is on LAND either. (In a previous post I noted I was a waitress in my youger years. I might also say that during my career years I did not get "tips", but I did get performance bonuses and periodic preformance raises.)

Many, if not most, restaurants in some states (maybe all, I don't know about all states) work the same way cruise lines do in relation to tips.

In at least SOME STATES, restaurants are exempt from minimum wage rules for their food servers. They can pay significantly less than minimum wage on the presumption that the servers will make enough in tips to at least reach the State's minimun wage. If enough folks don't tip, the server earns below minimum wage.

Now granted, the servers in such a State and restaurant may still earn more in base pay than onboard ships, the expectation is that they will make enough in tips to make at least minimum wage.

Why do I bring this up? Just as reminder that such is the way of life for many restaurant servers as well as shipboard folks. It is NOT something unique to HAL or even cruising.

[mommybunny21]

No wonder HAL cruisers have a reputation for being anti-children. I cannot believe some of the comments made here---i.e."I don't have children thank god" as so on. My husband and I have traveled all over the world with our son, first class, and have never encountered such animosity.

[tprime76]

mommybunny21 - I am one of the first people to get excited when I hear that the number of children on one of our cruises is unusually low. Why? Less children on the cruise means less chance of having to deal with some kid running through the pool deck screaming while mommy and daddy just tune it out or a temper tantrum during dinner or a bunch of kids taking over an elevator as a game. It is the few bad ones (and bad parents) that create this animosity.

All most people are looking for is to enjoy their vacation without having to strain to hear the crashing of the waves over screaming.

But, the whole children thing on cruises is another thread altogether.

[kryos]

In at least SOME STATES, restaurants are exempt from minimum wage rules for their food servers. They can pay significantly less than minimum wage on the presumption that the servers will make enough in tips to at least reach the State's minimun wage. If enough folks don't tip, the server earns below minimum wage.

But I would assume then that if the employee can show he has been paid under the minimum wage (including his tips) that the employer would have to make that up. Minimum wages are MINIMUM wages, and the person working at a "dive" who maybe didn't reach his minimum for the number of hours he worked that particular week (maybe the restaurant was very slow, etc.) should be able to go back to his employer, paperwork in hand, and get the difference made up to him.

Of course, this rarely happens I am sure. These restaurant corporations know how to make sure each employee gets enough hours to make their minimum wage requirements. And, yes, Pennsylvania (where I live) and New Jersey do pay restaurant servers well under the minimum wage, figuring that their tips will bring them up to the desired level. I remember when I was a server ... in a pancake house for one summer in the resort town of Wildwood. I believe my actual pay from the restuarant was about $1.00 an hour. We were paid in cash ... in a pay envelope each week. Then with my tips (usually about $10 to $15 a shift net) ... remember, this was back in '74 ... I probably just about cleared the minimum wage threshold. Believe me, restaurant servers, unless they are working at a really swanky place, don't make much more than that cashier at the Wal-Mart ... and the pay levels of both are an absolute disgrace.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[KAYEF]

I just scanned these pages after seeing them pointed out on another thread.............but..............
I always take THANK YOU NOTECARDS along, write a note, and we enclose extra tip money and hand them to people the last day.
We were TOLD on Veendam that we needed to put our Cabin Number on the outside. They would then "check to make sure we had left the auto-tip in place" and if so, the cash would be returned to the intended person.
PLEASE don't drop your auto-tip and give cash to good workers; they won't get to keep it. And, if it's found that they have kept it and not reported it, they lose their job..............we've been told that on several HAL ships.
I'm sure our cabin was cleaned, checked on, serviced more than twice a day...............I'll never forget that first night/first cruise when my DH left a shirt on a chair. We returned and it was folded beautifully and placed on an end table.
After that, we always laughed as we tidied up before leaving!:)

[LAFFNVEGAS]

IWe were TOLD on Veendam that we needed to put our Cabin Number on the outside. They would then "check to make sure we had left the auto-tip in place" and if so, the cash would be returned to the intended person.


I actually had never thought of this or been told but it makes sense. We have always just handed out cash the last night or day. I wonder if say for a cabin steward if everyone in his section kept the auto tip on would he then have to worry about pooling it? Same with your Dining Room steward? Although I am sure that would be harder to figure out and control where with the cabin steward it's pretty simple. Thanks for the information:)

[hammybee]

Back to the OP. Go. Enjoy. HAL allows you to bring onboard your own Coke. And if possible, adhere to the recommended topping policy, to ensure good KARMA going forward.