"As You Wish" Dining?

[Chance's Mom]

My family of 3 will be cruising on the Oosterdam to Alaska in May.:) Our travel agent told us that we have the option of having a designated meal time, or going with a more flexible dining schedule called "as you wish" dining. We were on the NCL Star 2 summers ago and loved their free-style dining.:D Is this the same thing?

[Krazy Kruizers]

Haven't hears of "as you wish" but right now the Oosterdam also know as the "Testerdam" is trying out the "Freestyle" dinning.

JMO - hopefully this flops!! That's why we quit dining on NCL and Princess.

Long time Traditional HAL cruisers.

[RuthC]

As of right now, yes, this is essentially the same. This is only a test on the Oosterdam. It may---or may not---be continued. Or extended to other ships.
Or morphed into some other flight of fancy. :rolleyes:

[Pam in CA]

I sure hope they've improved on Princess "Anytime" dining which is NOT show up any time and be seated. We've done it twice and had waits of 10 - 45 minutes, even when we had a reservation for the same table and time for the week. It's a mess with a lot of very frustrated people thinking they can just show up and be seated for dinner. I'm sticking with Traditional fixed time dining.

[skyedoggie]

Pam, that was our experience exactly when we sailed on Grand Princess with friends. We had selected the free-style dining. When it came to arriving for dinner we ended up having to wait in line and when we finally would be seated it was never with the same waiters and so there never was any recognition between the passengers and the waitstaff. In fact, the bottle of wine that our friends had returned for safe keeping was misplaced and an uncomfortable discussion occured about whether or not they had consumed it previously. All in all, it was a disaster and we to will be opting to remain with traditional seating.

[newmexicoNita]

My family of 3 will be cruising on the Oosterdam to Alaska in May.:) Our travel agent told us that we have the option of having a designated meal time, or going with a more flexible dining schedule called "as you wish" dining. We were on the NCL Star 2 summers ago and loved their free-style dining.:D Is this the same thing?
Yes, it appears it is the same; If you liked it on the Star there is no reason you wont' like it again. Knowing what to expect from flexible dining is 1/2 the battle. We too, love freestyle. It keeps us returning to NCL. Now that other lines and I think all before long, are adopting some form we are more willing to try other cruise lines. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

My family of 3 will be cruising on the Oosterdam to Alaska in May.:) Our travel agent told us that we have the option of having a designated meal time, or going with a more flexible dining schedule called "as you wish" dining. We were on the NCL Star 2 summers ago and loved their free-style dining.:D Is this the same thing?
Yes, it appears it is the same; If you liked it on the Star there is no reason you wont' like it again. Knowing what to expect from flexible dining is 1/2 the battle. We too, love freestyle. It keeps us returning to NCL. Now that other lines and I think all before long, are adopting some form we are more willing to try other cruise lines. NMnita

[OceanFantasys]

We hated anytime dining on Princess. We have never had anything but traditional and that is what we will stick with.

Rhonda

[kryos]

It's a mess with a lot of very frustrated people thinking they can just show up and be seated for dinner. I'm sticking with Traditional fixed time dining.
I don't know ... but in some respects I really can't understand that frustration at all. At home ... in a land-based restaurant ... can you just show up at any time and immediately be seated? Even with reservations, if you wish to dine at a popular time, you often have some sort of a wait. So, I would expect some sort of a wait to be the norm on a ship too.

The way around it is to choose to dine at a less popular time ... after the crowds have dispersed.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Navy_Chief]

You know, if the cruise industry desides to have it set up that you can show up at the dining room, like a resteruant, between say 5 until 9 PM, be seated at the first available table (regardless if someone is already in the middle of their meal), why not just do away with all that wasted space, plop more cabins in there and everybody eat at the Lido because essentially, it's the same thing. That would be a crime against cruising IMHO.

[kryos]

Haven't hears of "as you wish" but right now the Oosterdam also know as the "Testerdam" is trying out the "Freestyle" dinning.

JMO - hopefully this flops!! That's why we quit dining on NCL and Princess.

Long time Traditional HAL cruisers.
I think "As You Wish" dining is the next step in the "experiment." Totally flexible from what I understand. No assigned tables, etc. You show up with your party and are seated together.

How singles and solos will be treated is anyone's guess. Either they will be dumped on other parties, or I guess they will dine alone every night?

I'm with you. I hope this experiment flops so bad that the stink will be smelled clear across the oceans.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[gizmo]

I don't know ... but in some respects I really can't understand that frustration at all. At home ... in a land-based restaurant ... can you just show up at any time and immediately be seated? Even with reservations, if you wish to dine at a popular time, you often have some sort of a wait. So, I would expect some sort of a wait to be the norm on a ship too.

The way around it is to choose to dine at a less popular time ... after the crowds have dispersed.

Blue skies ...

--rita

But isn't that the point ? This isn't a land based vacation. At home we do not go to restauants that require a wait.
Why should I have to expect some sort of wait ? This wasn't part of the cruise experience on my past cruises.

[esther e]

Perhaps NCL and Princess didn't do it right. We love open-seating, eat with whomever, whenever, and that's why we cruise Oceania and Regent. Much prefer it to traditional. But, that's our opinion.

[gizmo]

Perhaps NCL and Princess didn't do it right. We love open-seating, eat with whomever, whenever, and that's why we cruise Oceania and Regent. Much prefer it to traditional. But, that's our opinion.

What Oceania and Regent have is different. They can handle everyone and there are no long waits. I would not object to this.

I agree that NCL and Princess do not do it right. The problem is they can't. There is no way they can seat people when they show up expecting a table. All those fancy names "As You Wish", "Anytime Dining" is nothing but a marketing ploy to make people think they have true open seating dining when the don't.

[esther e]

Oh, I see what you mean. The Regent and Oceania lines only hold under 800 pax. and they also have 2 additional speciality restaurants. Compare than to 2000 with 2 restaurants (upper and lower) and you're right.

[doone]

I hope this new dining experiment flops and they go back to the traditional times of dining. I am not a fan of waiting for a restaurant, at home, I always make reservations for a restaurant so I don't have to wait for a table. I also don't expect to have to wait to eat on my cruise vacation.

[GeriatricNurse]

I hope this new dining experiment flops and they go back to the traditional times of dining. I am not a fan of waiting for a restaurant, at home, I always make reservations for a restaurant so I don't have to wait for a table. I also don't expect to have to wait to eat on my cruise vacation.


:) Doone, I agree with you 100%!

[Stevesan]

But isn't that the point ? This isn't a land based vacation. At home we do not go to restauants that require a wait.
Why should I have to expect some sort of wait ? This wasn't part of the cruise experience on my past cruises.

Let's see, that would be the Sonic and ....

Geez, I can't think of another.;)

[newmexicoNita]

You know, if the cruise industry desides to have it set up that you can show up at the dining room, like a resteruant, between say 5 until 9 PM, be seated at the first available table (regardless if someone is already in the middle of their meal), why not just do away with all that wasted space, plop more cabins in there and everybody eat at the Lido because essentially, it's the same thing. That would be a crime against cruising IMHO.
Of course I don't know for sure, but I am guessing you have never tried flex dining. If you had you would know what you are suggesting isn't anywhere near what it is all about. Of course this form of dining isn't to everyone's liking, that is why HAL is offering "freestyle" as well as traditional. HAL didn't decide to switch over just for the H3$$ of it, they had reasons. NMnita

[kryos]

But isn't that the point ? This isn't a land based vacation. At home we do not go to restauants that require a wait.
Why should I have to expect some sort of wait ? This wasn't part of the cruise experience on my past cruises.
Oh, please believe me ... I'm not saying I am for this flexible dining at all. In fact, if it one day becomes the only option on a HAL ship, well ... for me, it will be bye bye HAL. All I'm saying is that regardless of whether it be land or sea ... a restaurant only has so many tables and can only serve so many people at the same time. I would imagine if you really wanted a table just for your party (no sharing with others), you sometimes may have to wait for it if you wish to dine at a popular time.

In actuality, though, at sea it probably will be a bit better because if your party has no tables currently available for its size, in a land-based restaurant you would have no choice but to wait. But on the ship, you'd probably be given the option of being seated with others at a large table if you wanted to be served immediately. But then you would have to eat with strangers ... which perhaps you'd rather not do.

I don't like flexible dining, and as long as HAL offers the option of flexible or traditional, I have no problem with it. I will book traditional, and if traditional is not available I would actually cancel my booking before I would allow my TA to stick me in flexible.

I think this flexible dining is going to take a lot away from the elegance of cruising. It's gonna be just like dining in your local Red Lobster. Especially if you are seated with strangers, and you don't want to be, it's gonna make your meal uncomfortable and stilted. I also believe that meals will be rushed ... especially during peak dining times ... because the wait staff will need those tables. It is very hard to linger when you see a large crowd waiting in the doorway. At least to me, on a cruise ship, dinner is an event more so than a meal. It's something to be savored, lingered over, and enjoyed ... not like at home where even if you do dine out at a restaurant or a diner, you are usually in and out within an hour ... perhaps because you have things to do and don't want to linger over the meal. Well, if I have to eat in a rushed manner on a cruise ship, then what's the point? Why not just run up to the Lido, grab some food, and then get on with my night?

No, I don't like these changes at all ... mainly from the perspective of someone who sails solo a great part of the time. But, that said ... I must realize that HAL (and other cruise lines) would not be going to this form of dining if they did not get an overwhelming number of comments indicating that it was what their customers wanted. And, if this "experiment" goes well ... and is well received ... then you can bet HAL will one day bag traditional dining in favor of 100% freestyle ... at least on some ships.

That's the day I won't be sailing HAL any longer.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[newmexicoNita]

I hope this new dining experiment flops and they go back to the traditional times of dining. I am not a fan of waiting for a restaurant, at home, I always make reservations for a restaurant so I don't have to wait for a table. I also don't expect to have to wait to eat on my cruise vacation.
What don't you understand about this? You have a choice as to whether you want to go "freestyle" of traditional. If you want traditional go for it. I give HAL credit for introducing a choice. As for waiting, 90% of the time these stories are totally exagerated or are based on the smaller, older ships, that were not designed for "freestyle"

Rita, bTW, I know many solo cruisers who have tried the Open Seating cruiselines: it is a mixed bag: 50% love it, 50% hate it.

NMnita

[fsalzer]

I sure hope they've improved on Princess "Anytime" dining which is NOT show up any time and be seated. We've done it twice and had waits of 10 - 45 minutes, even when we had a reservation for the same table and time for the week. It's a mess with a lot of very frustrated people thinking they can just show up and be seated for dinner. I'm sticking with Traditional fixed time dining.

As I've posted on another thread, my experience with "Anytime Dining" on Star Princess was excellent. There was not usually a line, and, if so, it was a very short wait.

However, when one makes a reservation for a specific table then it's easy for me to see a problem. The table will likely be in prior use, so if the previous diners take a little longer, then one must wait. I think it's unreasonable to expect a table to be kept vacant. It's also easy for me to understand waits for specific-top (2, 4, etc.) tables. We're very flexible so maybe that's why we've never had long waits.

I prefer the "Anytime Dining" concept because it doesn't make me a slave to the clock when I'm cruising. Fortunately, "Dine As You Wish" is being tried on Oosterdam tomorrow and I'll be aboard.:D:D I expect there may be a few bugs as with most things new.

Fred

[kryos]

What Oceania and Regent have is different. They can handle everyone and there are no long waits. I would not object to this.

Exactly, those ships are much smaller and are set up to offer open seating seamlessly. Also, singles and solos are taken care of as well ... because the matri 'd gets to know who they are and can often place them easily at another table ... with others who will welcome the extra person at their table. But on a mass market line, it's gonna be kind of difficult for the matri 'd to get to know the preferences of over 2000 people, and which ones wouldn't mind sharing with a single and which would. So, he'll take the easy way out. If he has a big table forming, he'll stick the single there. If not, he'll stick the single at a table for two by herself. Then she has to hope that another single walks into the dining room, or else she will be eating alone.

I wouldn't compare HAL to Oceania or Regent either ... cause it's like comparing apples to oranges. If every single passenger on the Regent ship decided to dine at the same time, I think Regent can handle it ... without any unnecessary log-jams forming. But on the mass market lines, with limited main dining room capacity (don't forget ... you'll only have one level of the dining room devoted to this flex dining ... at least for now), you're gonna have nothing but long waits if you want to dine at a popular time. You're also gonna be rushed as it is very hard to linger over your coffee when you see a huge crowd of hungry people forming at the dining room entrance. Needless to say, chances are you won't even be offered a second cup of coffee with your dessert.

And that brings me to my final point ... the smaller cruise lines don't suffer service issues with this open seating arrangement. The passenger count is small enough that it is still possible to develop a relationship with your servers ... for them to learn your preferences ... even if they've only served you twice before on a particular cruise. On HAL, that's not gonna be possible. So, where's the motivation for the servers to provide excellent service in the flexible dining room? Odds are they're not gonna get anything extra from any of the passengers anyway, so who cares if they have you in and out of that dining room in 45 minutes ... and you never get that refill on your water or iced tea? Chances are you'll be waited on by someone different every night ... there is no guarantee that you're gonna be seated in the same waiter's section each evening ... even if you want to be. Maybe you get to the dining room and all the tables in his section are taken that night. Are you going to wait ... possibly for an hour ... or just take a table in another section? Obviously most people will just take a table wherever. So, why should the waiters even bother to give personalized service? They're surely not gonna see anything extra in the way of tips for doing so. Service is definitely gonna suffer.

So for these reasons, while I probably would not be too adverse to an open seating arrangement on a small ship, I would hate it on a HAL ship.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[CocoKai]

We had "anytime" dining on Princess and it was a disaster. There were 7 people in our party and we made reservations each night for 7. Each night it was the same hassle. They could seat 7 people but not together.....3 over there, 2 across the room and 2 around the corner.

Every night the same arguement would occur and you'd look out across the dining room and see large empty tables everywhere. When we asked about those tables, we were informed that they were reserved for the set dining time people. These people had 30 minutes to show up to there table. So the hallway is packed with angry "anytimers" who can't eat and the set dining people aren't at their table and no one can use it. I love flexibility but I'd love to see a system that was a benefit. As an "Anytimer" on Princess, I would have fared better had I dropped a fishing line and caught my own dinner.

[doone]

[QUOTE=newmexicoNita]What don't you understand about this? You have a choice as to whether you want to go "freestyle" of traditional. If you want traditional go for it. I give HAL credit for introducing a choice. As for waiting, 90% of the time these stories are totally exagerated or are based on the smaller, older ships, that were not designed for "freestyle"


I do understand there is a choice, but what I am afraid of is the day may come where WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. Then I have a problem!!!!

[olly40]

I had anytime dining on a Princess cruise, and saw it as nothing but a disaster the way in which it was implemented.

The ship was full, and each night was at least a 15 minute (sometimes much longer - such as come back in an hour and we'll try to seat you) wait to get a table standing in line with angry furstrated passengers. Formal nights were even longer and more frustrating.

We did give up after several nights and make reservations at the end of the trip. Still, the same wait occurred each night. We just stood in the "have reservations" line instead of the "don't have reservations" line.

We could never make reservations for any time other than 6:30 or 8 pm though. (suspiciously coinciding with traditional dining times)

It seemed that if we went anytime between 6:30 and 7:45 pm and tried to eat, we were told there was no availability even though we weren't blind and could see that there were empty tables everywhere. I always wondered they were held for people with reservations even if the reservation was either a long time out, or the diners were quite late.

The other silly part was that some dining rooms were full with a big line, some less full with shorter lines, yet they made no attempt to send people elsewhere to better distribute the crowding.

Most evenings there were at least some "Traditional Dining" people in line because they had missed their dining time, or they wanted to try the Anytime dining "just this once". They weren't turned away.

I am in agreement with the above poster who said they would cancel or change ships in order to have Traditional Dining. With the same common management at the upper level, I can't see HAL implementing the concept any better than Princess.

[fsalzer]

Every night the same arguement would occur and you'd look out across the dining room and see large empty tables everywhere. When we asked about those tables, we were informed that they were reserved for the set dining time people. These people had 30 minutes to show up to there table. Therein lies a problem and defeats the purpose. Easy fix--no reservations allowed. Those that want a fixed dining time can be traditional diners.

Fred

[gizmo]

What don't you understand about this? You have a choice as to whether you want to go "freestyle" of traditional. If you want traditional go for it. As far as Tradional goes, where is the choice ? Look at Princess and the waiting list they have for Tradional. I give HAL credit for introducing a choice.
As I pointed out what choice ?

As for waiting, 90% of the time these stories are totally exagerated or are based on the smaller, older ships, that were not designed for "freestyle" Hal's ships were not designed for this either. There many,many posts about people having to wait for a table.

[newmexicoNita]

As far as Tradional goes, where is the choice ? Look at Princess and the waiting list they have for Tradional.
As I pointed out what choice ?

Hal's ships were not designed for this either. There many,many posts about people having to wait for a table.
Gizmo, your last point is well taken, after I made the statement, I realized HAL ships have not be desigend for freestyle either; the other points, you have brought them up before; one thing you either have forgotten or didn't know: Princess only offers one restaurant for traditional dining and 2 for Personal Choice; this is one reason for the wait lists: HALs downstairs area is normally larger than upstairs and it is the downstairs that will keep traditional dining.

As for complaints about waits, yes, we all know there are many who have written about them, but there are many more who would argue this point. I have sailed 6 freestyle cruises and the only wait I ever encountered was with a group of 20: we could not sit together as it turned out but close and we waiting about 20 minutes I would guess. I have never had a client complain about NCLs freestyle nor do I have any clients (take that back, one,) who has chosen traditional dining on Princess. I know it is hard to accept what appears to be the enevitable (spelling) but isn't it better to give it a try and see what happens than to continue to object. BTW, I don't remember, have you even sailed on a ship with the "freetyle" concept? NMnita

[fsalzer]

As far as Tradional goes, where is the choice ? Look at Princess and the waiting list they have for Tradional.
As I pointed out what choice ?
By booking early and one should get a choice. We booked later on our 2005 Oosterdam cruise and got late seating and waitlisted for early seating. We didn't get the early seating so we ate every dinner in the Lido Restaurant. We enjoyed it.

It's a virtual impossibility for everyone to get everything one wants. Logically, booking earlier gives one more choices.

This time we booked early and had a choice of traditional dining or "Dine As You Wish". We were thrilled that we had that choice because of our positive experiences with open seating.

Fred

[LAFFNVEGAS]

HALs downstairs area is normally larger than upstairs and it is the downstairs that will keep traditional dining.

NMnita

Nita, this is incorrect. The traditional for the "Dine as you Wish" will be Upper Level traditional with Lower level being the open seating.

[newmexicoNita]

Nita, this is incorrect. The traditional for the "Dine as you Wish" will be Upper Level traditional with Lower level being the open seating.I certainly miss read that and it will make a difference. Hopefully, they will not implement open dining or "Dine as you Wish" on HALs smaller ships. time will tell. Thanks for correcting me. NMNita

[mike35]

We happen to be huge fans of anytime dining - one of the reasons we love sailing on Oceania and Princess. We just got off the Statendam, after sailing 14 days from Auckland to Sydney. This was our first HAL cruise, and quite honestly, it won't be our last; for the most part, we absolutely loved it!

But our experience with "fixed" dining reinforced our preference to at least have a choice of fixed or "anytime". We had the 6:15 seating on a table of six (we're "early-to-bed, early-to rise" types). The first night, only DW and I showed up. How disappointing, we thought, as we love to discuss cruising (and maybe even politics:eek:) with our table mates. The second night, the other four arrived -- a Russian foursome who spoke almost no English. Papa showed up in jeans with suspenders (informal night), mama in a nice dress, teen-girl with a sullen mood, and 3-year old girl who ran around to other tables, disrupting their meals. The wait staff seemed clueless, although the little rug-rat presented an obvious hazard.

So - bright and early the next morning I contacted the maitre'd to request a table change. Sorry, he said, nothing available at 6:15 - "how about 5:45"? We had no choice, so we accepted this earlier time. We were much more fortunate this time - a lovely Australian couple and a single elderly German lady. Seat six remained empty. This earlier time made it terribly inconvenient when returning from a shore excursion, especially on formal nights.

We've sailed three Oceania cruises and two Princess cruises with anytime dining, and the most we have ever had to wait was 10 minutes. We've also found an excellent wait staff team and managed to consistently be seated at their table.

Is fixed dining a "deal breaker" on HAL - no, but if we had the choice, assuming similar itineraries, we would opt for Oceania or Princess.

Mike

[dippy]

Personally, I do not like the "dine anytime" concept especially if I have to wait to be seated. On land, I make reservations and expect to be seated when my reservation time arrives; if I'm not, then I will not return to that restaurant. At the same time, I do not believe that a sea vs land comparison is appropriate.

[newmexicoNita]

We happen to be huge fans of anytime dining - one of the reasons we love sailing on Oceania and Princess. We just got off the Statendam, after sailing 14 days from Auckland to Sydney. This was our first HAL cruise, and quite honestly, it won't be our last; for the most part, we absolutely loved it!

But our experience with "fixed" dining reinforced our preference to at least have a choice of fixed or "anytime". We had the 6:15 seating on a table of six (we're "early-to-bed, early-to rise" types). The first night, only DW and I showed up. How disappointing, we thought, as we love to discuss cruising (and maybe even politics:eek:) with our table mates. The second night, the other four arrived -- a Russian foursome who spoke almost no English. Papa showed up in jeans with suspenders (informal night), mama in a nice dress, teen-girl with a sullen mood, and 3-year old girl who ran around to other tables, disrupting their meals. The wait staff seemed clueless, although the little rug-rat presented an obvious hazard.

So - bright and early the next morning I contacted the maitre'd to request a table change. Sorry, he said, nothing available at 6:15 - "how about 5:45"? We had no choice, so we accepted this earlier time. We were much more fortunate this time - a lovely Australian couple and a single elderly German lady. Seat six remained empty. This earlier time made it terribly inconvenient when returning from a shore excursion, especially on formal nights.

We've sailed three Oceania cruises and two Princess cruises with anytime dining, and the most we have ever had to wait was 10 minutes. We've also found an excellent wait staff team and managed to consistently be seated at their table.

Is fixed dining a "deal breaker" on HAL - no, but if we had the choice, assuming similar itineraries, we would opt for Oceania or Princess.

Mike
Mike, our feelings exactly. No, the dining would not make or break our choice of sailings, but it does influence it for certain. If we are looking for a cruise, find 2 or 3 similare in price and itinerary we would choose the open dining concept. Like you, for the most part we liked or almost loved HAL. Our last experience we were lucky with our table: 8 or us, the couple we were traveling with, ourselves, a couple from Canada and another from Florida, previously Ct. We didn't have much in common with the others except our friends and certainly had opposite political views from our Canadian tablemates, but we still had pleasant dinners. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

Personally, I do not like the "dine anytime" concept especially if I have to wait to be seated. On land, I make reservations and expect to be seated when my reservation time arrives; if I'm not, then I will not return to that restaurant. At the same time, I do not believe that a sea vs land comparison is appropriate.Dippy, the wait time is just not the case most of the evenings, in fact hardly ever unless you are with a very large group and insist on dining right at 7pm. Look at it this way, traditional dining gives you the choice of dining around 6pm which is a rush on busy port days, especially if you like to have a drink or two before dinner: 8:15 or so means unless you stay up til midnight or later every night you are going to bed on a really full stomach. With open style dining you can eat at 5:30pm if you are starving and have a busy night ahead of you, or you can choose to wait til a much later hour. Each night you can vary your hour for dinner. We usually like to eat about 6:45, not too early, but we still can digest our meal prior to bed time. We have been known to eat as late as 9pm (rarely) and one time we actually went to the dining room when they opened at 5:30. It isn't all as bad as you may think. NMnita

[Oxo]

Everyone has a choice. We prefer PC as we can have a table for 2, same staff and table every night. Somewhat like Trad, but better since we do not have to wait for all table mates to arrive on time. It is much easier, quicker, and we feel we get better personalized service. We have been doing PC since it was started on Princess and have never had a problem with it. We even have the option to invite others that we meet on the cruise and can have a table together.
There is nothing that will satisfy everyone. But, it is another option and that is what people want.
We will definitely use it on HAL and appreciate the choice.

NCL has Freestyle cruising and that is somewhat similar.

[asctony]

I sure hope they've improved on Princess "Anytime" dining which is NOT show up any time and be seated. We've done it twice and had waits of 10 - 45 minutes, even when we had a reservation for the same table and time for the week. It's a mess with a lot of very frustrated people thinking they can just show up and be seated for dinner. I'm sticking with Traditional fixed time dining.
Our Anytime Dining experience has been totally different (GREAT!!) We were never asked to select 6 or 8PM. We were told that it is normally not possible to request a reservation between 7 and 8PM.
1. When we had reservations for 8PM on our past 11 Princess Cruises on 6 different Princess ships (2004 - 2006) using Anytime Dining we only had to wait 1 time because a couple took over 2 hours to finish their meal. Normally we just walk right in and go to our table.
2. You may ask for a table for 2, 4 or more. You can get the same table, waiter, and dining time for the entire cruise.
We think that Anytime Dining is the best of both dining experiences.
Happy Cruising!

[Pam in CA]

If Anytime dining were like breakfast and lunch dining on Princess where you could just walk up and be seated, I wouldn't have any problem with it nor would people be so disappointed when they walk up and find that half the tables are empty and reserved and they have to wait 30 - 45 minutes. I've done Anytime dining twice on Princess, once just walking up every evening (usually after 8:30PM) and once with a reservation for the week. Both times, we had waits but we had a better experience than many of our fellow passengers who would walk up and sometimes find they had an hours wait. Every night there were lines of very angry and frustrated people.

Even with a reservation for the same table and waitstaff every night, it's NOT the same as traditional dining. The waitstaff has to juggle 3 or 4 tables on completely different dining schedules and often, you're left waiting with dirty dishes for 15 - 20 minutes while the waitstaff seats and takes another table's order. They don't have the time to get to know you and provide the same level of service. They do the best they can but it's really not the same. I also don't see how making a reservation every night at 8PM in Anytime is being a slave to a time schedule when most Princess cruises I've been on had late traditional dining at 8 or 8:15PM. I just adjust accordingly -- and, I can literally walk in and sit down at "my" table which you can't do in Anytime on Princess. Even with a reservation, you have to line up and wait as the Maitre D checks your cruise card and then be taken to your table.

The fact that every single Princess ship and cruise has long waitlists for traditional dining should tell you something. We booked our upcoming cruise in February last September and were originally waitlisted at #185. We're now down to #23 and crossing our fingers... and toes.

[mike35]

Just thought I would add another two cents regarding anytime (PC) dining. On this recent HAL cruise, we met another couple on the first night from near our home town, and we instantly clicked. We would have loved to dine with them on a regular basis, but naturally could not, except for the Pinnacle Grill (or the Lido, which is another story altogether). So we booked the Pinnacle with them, at $60 (about $59 too high in our opinion, but again, that's another issue). We enjoyed their company, but on that particular night, the other couple at our regular table was ill and didn't attend dinner, leaving the remaining solo passenger by herself. Not a good scene at all, I'm afraid.

Mike

[kryos]

Therein lies a problem and defeats the purpose. Easy fix--no reservations allowed. Those that want a fixed dining time can be traditional diners.

Exactly ... and everyone stands in the same line ... and no tables are held back for anyone. I have a feeling ... just reading this stuff about large empty tables being "on reserve" that someone greased someone's palm to hold that table ... and that's not right.

I also can't understand why anyone should even want to make reservations in a flexible dining room. Isn't the point of flexible being that you can just walk in and request a table? Shouldn't you be able to decide on the fly when you want to eat each day?

I agree ... the easy fix is no reservations whatsoever. No tables held back. First come, first served.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

We enjoyed their company, but on that particular night, the other couple at our regular table was ill and didn't attend dinner, leaving the remaining solo passenger by herself. Not a good scene at all, I'm afraid.

But at least in traditional, I'll bet the waitstaff was able to find a spot at another table for that solo passenger. Oftentimes if after 15 minutes or so there are some empty slots at another table, the waiter will ask the folks at that table if they would mind if the single moved over to sit with them for the meal. But in "anytime" dining, I doubt that is very feasible, and it would be up to the solo passenger to ask others if they mind if she joins them. The matri 'd is not going to take that on himself.

I have a feeling that if this "Dine as You Wish" becomes the HAL standard, either solos make arrangements ahead of time ... such as on these boards ... or they are going to be eating a lot of onboard meals by themselves.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[TheHappyWanderer]

I have cruised Princess many times. Our first contact with anytime was on the Star. "Anytime" was available, but we chose fixed. Our table in the fixed dining room was half empty every night. Our second experience with "anytime" was on the Sapphire's innagural summer cruises. We decided to go anytime with my sister and BIL. Every night we roamed the halls between all the small anytime restaurants seeking a table. Every room, every night had at least 45 wait. One evening we couold get a table NO WHERE....and ended up unwantingly at the Lido. Several nights after 45 minute waits the four of us could not eat at same table, while empty tables were all around us. So next we go on the Crown, requested fixed late 14 months prior. We got it, but friends who booked at same time did not and were put on waiting list. Clear up to sailing day they were denied fixed. We arrived at table first night and there were only 4 at table for ten. We asked and asked that friends be able to join us, but were told no. Finally our own waiter just told us hush hush to have friends join us anyway....no one would notice. They were so glad to get away from anytime where they had 45 minute waits.

This said we will have to do "freestyle" on NCL this summer, but will certainly not choose to try "as you wish" on HAL spring break.

And to repeat a point someone else made earlier.....it is not a choice of "anytime" "freestyle" or "as you wish" if you cannot get traditional fixed even if you book very very early.

[fsalzer]

And to repeat a point someone else made earlier.....it is not a choice of "anytime" "freestyle" or "as you wish" if you cannot get traditional fixed even if you book very very early. If HAL is not allowing choices to be made when there is available seating, then that's an entirely different problem.

Fred

[fsalzer]

But in "anytime" dining, I doubt that is very feasible, and it would be up to the solo passenger to ask others if they mind if she joins them. The matri 'd is not going to take that on himself.

I have a feeling that if this "Dine as You Wish" becomes the HAL standard, either solos make arrangements ahead of time ... such as on these boards ... or they are going to be eating a lot of onboard meals by themselves.
On our recent Oceania Regatta cruise, we would simply say to the matri 'd, "We would like to share a table for six" (our size preference if there are two of us) and there was never a problem. Solos could do similarly. We would occasionally dine with a solo, as there seemed to be few on board. We equally enjoy dining with solos. Since there will be four of us cruising together today, we'll likely ask to share a table for eight.

I'm off to packing for Oosterdam and will tonight "Dine As I Wish." :D

Fred

[Tricia724]

....I also can't understand why anyone should even want to make reservations in a flexible dining room. Isn't the point of flexible being that you can just walk in and request a table? Shouldn't you be able to decide on the fly when you want to eat each day?

I agree ... the easy fix is no reservations whatsoever. No tables held back. First come, first served.

This is what I have never been able to understand. Why in the world would the cruiseline allow passengers in the flexible dining program to reserve a specific table at a specific time every day?

That's the exact same thing as traditional dining....except the cruiser gets to select the time....which seems to me to be giving preference to a small group of cruisers. They get to choose the table they want, the waitperson they want, at the time they want. In the meantime people who are trying to use the program as it was designed.....going at different times on different days.....are penalized because they can't get seated. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

We have a local restaurant that is quite popular and busy that will absolutely make no reservations. Their take is that they are not going to have a table sitting vacant waiting for someone to arrive when they have people lined up at the door. Everybody knows the drill and either chooses to go at a less busy time.....or plans for a wait at peak times.....or goes somewhere else. BUT.....everybody is treated equally. And it doesn't matter who you are, or who you know, nobody gets moved up the list. Oh yes, forget about the discreet tip.....they don't take'em. Needless to say, this policy has worked very well for them.

Once the cruiselines establish a policy, then make exceptions to the program, they are creating their own problems.....and problems for all of their staff who have to work within that program.

[barbon2]

Have posted this before, but HAL is doing 2 types of dining concepts. The first we just experienced on the Oosterdam. You had a set dining time and an assigned table and had to arrive at the table within an hour window. We had 8pm seating lower dining room and could arrive anytime between 8 and 9. Booked the Noordam for late Aug. and was told about the 2 dining options (upstairs at 8pm and downstairs between 5:45 and 9 pm). We were told that the 8pm set dining (upper which also has a assigned table) was already booked for that sailing so we opted to change our cruise to the next week. We were able to get the 8pm assigned upper seating. However, I see that the time slot for upper assigned seating is now waitlisted for that date (glad we got in under the gun), so in my opinion, most people still want the assigned seating and that is why the freestyle downstairs seating is still available. I also think that if a line is going to do freestyle dining they have to have at least 6 or more restaurants to choose from in order to keep the flow going. Most lines with freestyle dining offer many restaurants to choose from. Will be interesting to see if HAL keeps up with this new option. Have cut and pasted this from another thread on the same subject.
Barbara

[Winchester]

Just off the noordam new years cruise. We had late sitting. Both levels could come in for dinner ANY TIME between 8-9 pm. I think the early sitting could go to dinner between 5:30-6:30. We went in when the piano bar or other pre-dinner activity was done which could be 8-8:30. I think the option worked well. It could take a couple minutes for someone to start serving us if they were in the middle of serving full trays of a cousre, but it wasn't a problem.

I LIKE THIS OPTION AND HOPE IT SPREADS FLEETWIDE.

[10s nut]

I have tried to skim through this as this has been discussed before. I will be on the Oosterdam next week. One thing I do not think has been brought up...WHEN WAS ANYONE TOLD ABOUT THE CHANGE IN DINING PROCEDURES?????? I had to learn about this from CC. Nowhere in my Docs or on the website did I discover this.

My husband loves the traditional dining and isn't a huge cruise person. To appease him, I booked HAL. We do NOT have traditional as it was full. Now I am at the mercy of the experiment.

IF I WAS TOLD AHEAD OF TIME I WOULD NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE BOOKED MY NEXT TWO CRUISES WITH HAL.

[barbon2]

Hi,
I don't think you will have to worry about this on your cruise next week. We were notified of the change when booking our cruise (for late summer) and if you look at your cruise date on the HAL web site and under dining (as if you were booking) it will tell you the dining times. From what I have gathered this new timing will be sometime in the spring.

[innlady1]

I don't know ... but in some respects I really can't understand that frustration at all. At home ... in a land-based restaurant ... can you just show up at any time and immediately be seated? Even with reservations, if you wish to dine at a popular time, you often have some sort of a wait. So, I would expect some sort of a wait to be the norm on a ship too.

The way around it is to choose to dine at a less popular time ... after the crowds have dispersed.

Blue skies ...

--rita

I agree, Rita.

And, we had a different experience with Anytime Dining on the Caribbean Princess. We booked a reservation in the Palms Dining Room our 2nd night, liked it and the waiter so much that we booked the same table/same wait staff on the nights we didn't try the steak house or Sabatini's. We were always seated immediately, too. We only ate in the Lido the 1st night and lunch when we were in port. Breakfast and lunches we went to the Island Dining Room.

[Robinsilver]

I hope that this does not ruin our first HAL experience. We are wait listed for the 8:00 seating, but had no idea that this was what was being offered. We are in a suite, so I will hope that this will give us some kind of priority to get the seating we want. It is our first time going just the 2 of us, so I was not sure how it would work out anyway. Would like to be at a table with others. Maybe by 2/24 the experiment will be over.

[Willia]

Free Style, Open Seating,Your Choice, Anytime dining - it's just not our thing! We've tried them on various lines, including QE2

When HAL goes to anything other than 'Traditional' we'll move on.
Of course our alternative could be Room Service - problem there tho, we'd have to book a suite to accommodate our like-minded friends.

We don't/won't stand in line for dinner at home - certainly not about to start on a cruise. We make reservations - a 5/10 minute wait is acceptable - anything beyond that I become a bit antsy........the restaurant is wise to offer me my favorite cocktail(on the house...) as we wait!

[babba]

There has been much controversy regarding traditional dining vs "as you wish" dining. I have experienced both and find pros and cons with each style of dining. I am bookeed on the Noordam for February 17. I requested a table for two ... early seating. I was told that I am number 85 on the waiting list for early dining. I really feel that I do not have any sort of choice and am "forced" to dine at a time I really do not want or find convenient. This is where "freestyle" dining is my preference.

[babba]

There has been much controversy regarding traditional dining vs "as you wish" dining. I have experienced both and find pros and cons with each style of dining. I am bookeed on the Noordam for February 17. I requested a table for two ... early seating. I was told that I am number 85 on the waiting list for early dining. I really feel that I do not have any sort of choice and am "forced" to dine at a time I really do not want or find convenient. This is where "freestyle" dining is my preference.

[newmexicoNita]

I hope that this does not ruin our first HAL experience. We are wait listed for the 8:00 seating, but had no idea that this was what was being offered. We are in a suite, so I will hope that this will give us some kind of priority to get the seating we want. It is our first time going just the 2 of us, so I was not sure how it would work out anyway. Would like to be at a table with others. Maybe by 2/24 the experiment will be over.
I doubt it will ruin your vacation unless you let it and as for experiment being over: that is pretty unlikely as HAL is offering the program on their fall sailings. If anything it will probably be used on more ships. NMNita

[sab490]

Just checked our 12/1/2007 Noordam cruise on the HAL website and the seating times listed as "available" are:

Early Upper
Early Lower
Main Upper
Main Lower (so far so good)
Open Seating!:mad:

Now if open seating uses the lower level, how can early and main lower be "available"? Guess we better request Main Upper unless we want to get stuck eating early or getting caught in the "as you wish" free-for-all!

[nabby]

I have tried to skim through this as this has been discussed before. I will be on the Oosterdam next week. One thing I do not think has been brought up...WHEN WAS ANYONE TOLD ABOUT THE CHANGE IN DINING PROCEDURES?????? I had to learn about this from CC. Nowhere in my Docs or on the website did I discover this.


I had a letter from Mr. Deering included in my doc package that explained the dining arrangement. This is a new experiment that they are trying on Oosterdam for the first time this week. I'm sure they will be getting plenty of feedback to help them decide how they want to handle dining arrangements in the future! If you hate the open dining on your cruise be sure to explain why to HAL in your comments.

[newmexicoNita]

I had a letter from Mr. Deering included in my doc package that explained the dining arrangement. This is a new experiment that they are trying on Oosterdam for the first time this week. I'm sure they will be getting plenty of feedback to help them decide how they want to handle dining arrangements in the future! If you hate the open dining on your cruise be sure to explain why to HAL in your comments.
My understanding, they are trying it on 2 ships. I could be wrong. yes, if you really don't like it, please let management know; the same goes for letting them know if you do like it. NMnita

[CherylsCaribbeanTravel]

My understanding, they are trying it on 2 ships. I could be wrong. yes, if you really don't like it, please let management know; the same goes for letting them know if you do like it. NMnita

What is the other ship??

Cheryl :)

[zdude]

So, where's the motivation for the servers to provide excellent service in the flexible dining room? Odds are they're not gonna get anything extra from any of the passengers anyway, so who cares if they have you in and out of that dining room in 45 minutes ... and you never get that refill on your water or iced tea?

<snip>



There is a reason that people tip a $20 to the servers the first time you see them. Before service even begins. They know that there is more where that came from and try for the rest of the cruise to get more by offering great service. Whether you oblige or not. I like to tip up front and at the end. it has always worked great for me.

I hope to have a great experience with the new seating, but I will make the most of whatever they give me. And if it does not work, I'll try make my request for traditional.

[zdude]

There has been much controversy regarding traditional dining vs "as you wish" dining. I have experienced both and find pros and cons with each style of dining. I am bookeed on the Noordam for February 17. I requested a table for two ... early seating. I was told that I am number 85 on the waiting list for early dining. I really feel that I do not have any sort of choice and am "forced" to dine at a time I really do not want or find convenient. This is where "freestyle" dining is my preference.

I was like 190 on the wait list :eek: and agree 100%

[newmexicoNita]

What is the other ship??

Cheryl :)
I actually have no idea, but that is what someone said on here a couple of weeks ago when this discussion first started.

Hopefully someone else will be able to clear this up for all of us or maybe tomorrow I will call our sales rep and see if this is truth or fiction.
NMNita

[GeriatricNurse]

What is the other ship??

Cheryl :)


:( Noordam

[GeriatricNurse]

What is the other ship??

Cheryl :)


:o ?Noordam

[sab490]

Our TA just got off the phone with HAL. Our 12/1 Noordam cruise is going to be "as you wish" so it looks like they will be going fleetwide with this. :mad:

The upper level will be traditional with two seatings. The lower level will be open seating.

[cnvh]

We booked last week for the 10/31/07 Noordam sailing, and we were told that one level is traditional, and one level is as-you-wish. We requested early seating for a table for two, and we weren't told anything about being waitlisted. Hopefully they won't bump us!! :)

[nikkin]

I would be real happy with that , cause I do doubt I will get a table for two when I want it.. So for a sailing in March they will have it.. as you wish..?

[newmexicoNita]

:( Noordam
Cheryl, I was going to say the Noordam, but decided I would let someone who knew for sure answer the question. Thanks, NMnita

[wizard-of-roz]

Been there....done that....NCL does NOT do it so well!!!! The lines were long and the wait was awful! We spoke to the Matre d', had a table for two (by a window, at 5:45 reserved), in the main dining room, for every night, he accommodated us and we were happy!

The wait staff changed every night.....hated it!!!!

I love getting to know my wait staff and them getting to know my likes and dislikes......it's part of the cruise experience!

I also have never, never waited in traditional dining on Princess or Celebrity.

We're trying HAL (Traditional) in April.....I am looking forward to the service and the "usual" cruise-style of dining! :p

[newmexicoNita]

Been there....done that....NCL does NOT do it so well!!!! The lines were long and the wait was awful! We spoke to the Matre d', had a table for two (by a window, at 5:45 reserved), in the main dining room, for every night, he accommodated us and we were happy!

The wait staff changed every night.....hated it!!!!

I love getting to know my wait staff and them getting to know my likes and dislikes......it's part of the cruise experience!

I also have never, never waited in traditional dining on Princess or Celebrity.

We're trying HAL (Traditional) in April.....I am looking forward to the service and the "usual" cruise-style of dining! :p What ship were you on, when did you cruise and what time were you trying to dine? I only ask this cause I have cruised 6 freestyle cruises with as few as 2 in our party and as many as 20. We only waited when we had the group of 20 and it was about 7pm. Actually we had to split up, no surprise. As for the wait staff changing each night, yes this is true but waht a wonderful way to get to visit with so many crew members. I will say one thing I like about the way HAL is testing the program: they are doing like Princess and giving a choice. I think this is the answer. Every one can choose what is right for them. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

Been there....done that....NCL does NOT do it so well!!!! The lines were long and the wait was awful! We spoke to the Matre d', had a table for two (by a window, at 5:45 reserved), in the main dining room, for every night, he accommodated us and we were happy!

The wait staff changed every night.....hated it!!!!

I love getting to know my wait staff and them getting to know my likes and dislikes......it's part of the cruise experience!

I also have never, never waited in traditional dining on Princess or Celebrity.

We're trying HAL (Traditional) in April.....I am looking forward to the service and the "usual" cruise-style of dining! :p What ship were you on, when did you cruise and what time were you trying to dine? I only ask this cause I have cruised 6 freestyle cruises with as few as 2 in our party and as many as 20. We only waited when we had the group of 20 and it was about 7pm. Actually we had to split up, no surprise. As for the wait staff changing each night, yes this is true but waht a wonderful way to get to visit with so many crew members. I will say one thing I like about the way HAL is testing the program: they are doing like Princess and giving a choice. I think this is the answer. Every one can choose what is right for them. NMNita

[jeffs55]

I myself was on the Crown in 2004 (not designed for Freestyle) and the Dawn this past Sept. never had
to wait more than a couple of minutes in the "main" dining room. Never got into "Impressions" on Dawn
due to wait, just went to another alternative.
We're on Noordam next week, were looking forward to "traditional".
We'll let you know.

[TheHappyWanderer]

I got papers (invoice) from travel agent today in the main, confirming our final payemnt. When I looked closely I noticed that things had changed. My status went from "traditional upper 8:00" which was what I requested and was confrimed, to "traditional-wait list." This arrived when it was too late to call TA, but will be on the phone pronto tomorrow.

I actually have ALL day tomorrow to call....its been declared a snow day.

[kbert92069]

If so many people are happy with the "as you wish" then why am I being wait listed for traditional? Seems to me that should be the vacant one.

I realize those of us who pay attention to what's going on are in a minority but it seems to me it'd be nice if HAL gave all their passengers a sales pitch on the "as you wish" and that would make room for those of us who prefer the traditional.

Perhaps that'll happen. I'm told I'm #100 on the waitlist for traditional so maybe at least 102 people will opt out :)

[CocoKai]

I think they should make the whole ship "as you wish." First of all, are you ever really hungry on a cruise? There is plenty of food for everyone!!!

Those that like to dine earlier can dine early and those later can do the same. By making everyone "as you wish", you would be able to accomodate more people. When you mix traditional with "as you wish", you end up with empty tables on the traditional side and a stampede of angry people on the "as you wish" side. If I have traditional and go to the Pinnacle Grill for dinner, I have now left two empty seats that "as you wishers" can't sit at.

Make the whole ship "as you wish", people will disperse amongst the dining options and it will alleviate so many issues and complaints. I don't even know what I have on the O. I don't even care as I know I won't go hungry.

[newmexicoNita]

If so many people are happy with the "as you wish" then why am I being wait listed for traditional? Seems to me that should be the vacant one.

I realize those of us who pay attention to what's going on are in a minority but it seems to me it'd be nice if HAL gave all their passengers a sales pitch on the "as you wish" and that would make room for those of us who prefer the traditional.

Perhaps that'll happen. I'm told I'm #100 on the waitlist for traditional so maybe at least 102 people will opt out :)Probably two reasons: 1- there is more "as you wish seating" available so those who are requesting traditional dining are wait listed and 2-it is new to HAL, many who cruise HAL, especailly the veterans either have tried flex dining and do not like it, or they haven't and are afraid to give it a try. this is just a guess. NMNita

[agabbymama]

We had the Free Style Dining on NCL Wind in 2004. I didn't really care for it, as you still had to be at the door at 5:30 to get a good place in line. Usually about a 30 minute wait until seated, different table different wait staff every time. I think I like traditional seating better as once the doors are open you can just walk to your table, you don't have to wait to be seated, and you have the same wait staff every time. But guess the same wait staff isn't so important with the way they put the $10 gratuity on your account now. Whoever waits on you will get their share of the gratuity. Think I still prefer Traditional Dining.

[wizard-of-roz]

I, personally, will NOT cruise a ship that does not offer traditional dining and, we are now cruising at least twice a year.

[newmexicoNita]

We had the Free Style Dining on NCL Wind in 2004. I didn't really care for it, as you still had to be at the door at 5:30 to get a good place in line. Usually about a 30 minute wait until seated, different table different wait staff every time. I think I like traditional seating better as once the doors are open you can just walk to your table, you don't have to wait to be seated, and you have the same wait staff every time. But guess the same wait staff isn't so important with the way they put the $10 gratuity on your account now. Whoever waits on you will get their share of the gratuity. Think I still prefer Traditional Dining.
that was 3 years ago and on a ship not designed for freestyle. The newer ships are 100% different plus the plan has been perfected. We have cruised "freestyle" 6 times, have eaten as early as 5:45 and as late as 9:00, never with the exception of the one time we had 20 people (a CC group) did we wait more than 30 seconds. as for the $10, well most of the wait staff knows it they go above and beyond there may be more than that amout for them. WE usually tip a couple of the crew over and above. $10 is a minimum amount. Obviously there are 2 schools of thought here and yes, flex dining isn't for eveyone but it certainly appears to be the trend of the future. I would suggest we all try to accept the change rather than continue to conplain. NMnita

[agabbymama]

that was 3 years ago and on a ship not designed for freestyle. The newer ships are 100% different plus the plan has been perfected. We have cruised "freestyle" 6 times, have eaten as early as 5:45 and as late as 9:00, never with the exception of the one time we had 20 people (a CC group) did we wait more than 30 seconds. as for the $10, well most of the wait staff knows it they go above and beyond there may be more than that amout for them. WE usually tip a couple of the crew over and above. $10 is a minimum amount. Obviously there are 2 schools of thought here and yes, flex dining isn't for eveyone but it certainly appears to be the trend of the future. I would suggest we all try to accept the change rather than continue to conplain. NMnita

NMnita,
I don't care for the newer larger ships with their entertainment park atmosphere, and all the changes to the traditional cruising. I like the smaller ships that HAL has and I like the traditional dining. If they keep changing cruising and don't leave some of the things I like about cruising, then I will give up cruising. There are a lot of choices out there for vacations, I have taken plenty of land vacations and can do so again. If the majority of cruisers like the free style or open dining then so be it. I can't do anything about taxes here in California either, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about it. I can do something about cruising, if I don't like the way things are, then I'll find an alternative vacation.

[danandchris]

We freestyled with NCL last time out. Didn't much care for it. We were seated promptly every time- but did miss not having the same wait staff who would have the drink order waiting and promptly learn and accommodate other habitual requests (it usually only took two times to become "habitual") on X or RCCL. But the biggest annoyance, imo, was that since we traveled as a couple- we always were seated at a table for two. Now, I love my wife, but she is my sole dining partner at home all of the time. Cruising used to add to the enjoyment. We have really enjoyed meeting, and keeping in contact with, the many friends we have made at the large traditional dinner table.
We are on the O'dam 17 Feb- haven’t got a dining confirmed yet, but the roll call board indicates many have not been granted their traditional dining request. Does anyone know if sitting at a large table with a small party is the norm or is it unusual on HAL "as you wish"?
dan

[mike35]

I, personally, will NOT cruise a ship that does not offer traditional dining and, we are now cruising at least twice a year.
Hi Wiz

Your emphatic refusal is music to us Oceania devotees! Oceania is now booking full at least one year in advance, and their three ships are (and always have been) anytime dining - eat with whom you want, when you want, with little or no waiting and a waitstaff that is among the most attentive and professional in the industry. And miracle of miracles, we don't even have the hokey "Baked Alaska" parade!

Different strokes....

Mike

[kryos]

I think they should make the whole ship "as you wish." First of all, are you ever really hungry on a cruise? There is plenty of food for everyone!!!

Because this is still an "experiment," and HAL wants to see how it goes over first.

Believe me, if passengers overwhelmingly favor As You Wish, you can bet the entire ship will go to that format at some point. But, for right now, HAL needs to see which way the wind blows.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[PRINSENDAM]

Hi Wiz

Your emphatic refusal is music to us Oceania devotees! Oceania is now booking full at least one year in advance, and their three ships are (and always have been) anytime dining - eat with whom you want, when you want, with little or no waiting and a waitstaff that is among the most attentive and professional in the industry. And miracle of miracles, we don't even have the hokey "Baked Alaska" parade!

Different strokes....

Mike


I rather think that if Oceana were to run their ships on the old traditional two sittings system they would still fill them!

Of course it is a bit easier with the Oceana ships. They have two excellent alternative restaurants plus the Lido and they are only 600 pax capacity. It makes the whole set up easy to run.... in comparison the HAL's much larger ships.

I prefer traditional dining, but I would be quite happy to sail with Oceana with anytime dining.

Best of all is Saga.... and Cunard Grill class.... Single sitting. Enter the dining room anytime between 7 and 9... and you still get your asigned table and waiters!

Stephen

[PRINSENDAM]

Hi Wiz



Different strokes....

Mike


Mike...

What I forgot to say.... 'Different Strokes'.........EXACTLY!!!!

The last thing we want is for every company to have exactly the same style. Variation is good.

Stephen

[gizmo]

Hi Wiz

Your emphatic refusal is music to us Oceania devotees! Oceania is now booking full at least one year in advance, and their three ships are (and always have been) anytime dining - eat with whom you want, when you want, with little or no waiting and a waitstaff that is among the most attentive and professional in the industry. And miracle of miracles, we don't even have the hokey "Baked Alaska" parade!

Different strokes....

Mike

You are comparing apples to oranges.

[kbert92069]

Because with "as you wish" dining people can stroll in whenever they like does that mean more and more people will be strolling in whatever they like?

I suspect these go somewhat hand in hand and this is the trend along with shorts and flip flops in church.

My wish is that HAL maintain traditions on at least their smaller ships.

[mango14217]

I prefer traditional dining eating with the same people and having the same waitstaff every night.

[wizard-of-roz]

In answer to some questions:

Freestyle Dining Experience: NCL Star - November, 2006 (the dinner line was around the corner at 6:00pm- just so happened to be first in line - after we ate and were leaving the dining room at 7:30 (chairs were placed against the walls and people were lined up on the stairs) - a woman, in line told me she had been waiting 45 minutes! NEVER AGAIN!

FYI: Diamond Princess - September, 2006 - We had traditional dining at 5:45 - (never waited) - They were serving traditional in the main dining room and the Vivaldi Dining Room (2 places).

Mike: There is no comparison to these mega-ships and Oceania....I know I will love my Oceania cruise...a big difference between 600 and 2000 or more!;)

[caviargal]

I don't care for the newer larger ships with their entertainment park atmosphere, and all the changes to the traditional cruising. I like the smaller ships that HAL has and I like the traditional dining. If they keep changing cruising and don't leave some of the things I like about cruising, then I will give up cruising. There are a lot of choices out there for vacations, I have taken plenty of land vacations and can do so again. If the majority of cruisers like the free style or open dining then so be it. if I don't like the way things are, then I'll find an alternative vacation.

While I love open dining on lines like Regent where there is no loss of service levels, I greatly disliked it on NCL. I agree with what you said above and will say that the lowering standards for dress code are another turn off. This experiment with open dining at HAL and their now allowing jeans in the dining room at dinner seem to me to be clear signs that they are following in the footsteps of the other mass market lines. Celebrity's new smaller ships are open dining and country club casual.

No cruises for pleasure for me for the next two years at the very least and will be sticking to land vacations for the foreseeable future.

[irv54]

Hi all

We went on an NCL with freestyle dinning and did not like it all.
We never waited for a table for more than 2-3 minutes.
We went by ourselves (and we never go with more than one other couple) and expected to be seated at a large table and meet others. It felt like NCL was doing us a favor when they sat us we another couple. I also feel that we were eating and not dining (maybe that is because the food was way below average - they pay for dinning was not as good as RCL or Hal's regular dinning). I am fine with it for breakfast and lunch but we like to have a leisurely luxuruious dinner service.
We are going on HAL in a few weeks and am looking forward to it. It seems like it is going to be traditional dinner but with 4 seatings instead of 2.

[rinshin]

I'm also a fan of traditional seating on larger ships and would not enjoy open seating or whatever they want to call it. I booked HAL Oosterdam thinking it was going to be traditional and had no idea they are experimenting. We were told traditional main seating, but now our tickets show waitlisted main seating. I will not be happy if we are moved over to non-traditional. I like sitting with same people every day and getting to know them.

[rinshin]

I'm also a fan of traditional seating on larger ships and would not enjoy open seating or whatever they want to call it. I booked HAL Oosterdam thinking it was going to be traditional and had no idea they are experimenting. We were told traditional main seating, but now our tickets show waitlisted main seating. I will not be happy if we are moved over to non-traditional. I like sitting with same people every day and getting to know them.

[TheHappyWanderer]

My TA spoke to HAL and they claim we are still 8:00 upper.....and get this....that Oosterdam is NOT presently doing as you wish dining, and is not planning on doing it in the near future. So corporate says one thing to appease the TA's and their clients, and then there is reality of what we know from those on board. So I guess in March I take my documents from my TA that says 8 upper and say that I willl accept no other.

[Dolphins]

I hope this new dining experiment flops and they go back to the traditional times of dining. I am not a fan of waiting for a restaurant, at home, I always make reservations for a restaurant so I don't have to wait for a table. I also don't expect to have to wait to eat on my cruise vacation.

I hope it succeeds. What's wrong with offering both "anytime" and traditional on a ship and giving passengers a choice? They are not taking away your sacred traditional dining. We like freestyle dining on NCL especially the option of dining at ten different restaurants. Of course, NCL ships are configured to this and there's nothing to keep you from dining at the same table in the same dining room every night if you wish. We prefer a table for two and dining early. When we sail HAL, since few options are available, we choose traditional, table for two early seating. On NCL, we get a table for two early every night but at many different venues. Nothing wrong with trying to please as many passengers as possible.

[caviargal]

Nothing wrong with trying to please as many passengers as possible.

As the cruise lines become more and more alike, what will there be to differentiate them?

They are all relaxing dress codes, some are experimenting with this type of dining.

I personally think that trying to be all things to all people is a mistake. It is what makes an experience different that sets it apart.

HAL has long been known for offering a traditional experience and this indeed changes things.

As far as having so many different restaurants to choose from, I did not care for the food court atmosphere on NCL and ended up paying extra every night for a good meal with good service. Quality over quantity is important to me, as is ambiance.

[caviargal]

I hope it succeeds. What's wrong with offering both "anytime" and traditional on a ship and giving passengers a choice? They are not taking away your sacred traditional dining. We like freestyle dining on NCL especially the option of dining at ten different restaurants. Of course, NCL ships are configured to this and there's nothing to keep you from dining at the same table in the same dining room every night if you wish. We prefer a table for two and dining early. When we sail HAL, since few options are available, we choose traditional, table for two early seating. On NCL, we get a table for two early every night but at many different venues. Nothing wrong with trying to please as many passengers as possible.

As the cruise lines become more and more alike, what will there be to differentiate them?

They are all relaxing dress codes, some are experimenting with this type of dining.

I personally think that trying to be all things to all people is a mistake. It is what makes an experience different that sets it apart.

HAL has long been known for offering a traditional experience and this indeed changes things.

As far as having so many different restaurants to choose from, I did not care for the food court atmosphere on NCL (then again I steer clear from that and chains as well at home) and ended up paying extra every night for a good meal with good service. Quality over quantity is important to me, as is ambiance.

[Odd Ball]

I hope it succeeds. What's wrong with offering both "anytime" and traditional on a ship and giving passengers a choice? They are not taking away your sacred traditional dining. We like freestyle dining on NCL especially the option of dining at ten different restaurants. Of course, NCL ships are configured to this and there's nothing to keep you from dining at the same table in the same dining room every night if you wish. We prefer a table for two and dining early. When we sail HAL, since few options are available, we choose traditional, table for two early seating. On NCL, we get a table for two early every night but at many different venues. Nothing wrong with trying to please as many passengers as possible.

I think there a lot wrong with this. Hal is trying to turn a perfectly good dining experience into a 3 ring circus.

Ten different restaurants sounds so wonderful but how many do you have to pay for ??? What a joke ! In order to avoid a line, go eat in a restaurant that has an additional cost.

"Sacred tradional dining"............A little sarcastic. :eek:
If you like Freestyle so much, why not just stick with it on NCL?

[Golfette]

Newmexico Rita - for your info we were on Sapphire Princess which has four (4 - count 'em) "freestyle" (excuse me while I die laughing) restaurants in addition to a Traditional Dining Room. Being new to cruising, we loved the concept of (quoting from Princesses' brochure) "dining when and with whom you please." Not once during the entire 7 nite cruise were we able to be seated at any of the four restaurants unless we ate before 5 or after 8:30. We ended up eating at their (barf) buffet every nite. What a wonderful "vacation" that was! We haven't had the courage or inclination to take a cruise since. I heard HAL was different. That's why I'm checking this board, and I'm really disturbed at what I'm seeing here.

[GeriatricNurse]

I think there a lot wrong with this. Hal is trying to turn a perfectly good dining experience into a 3 ring circus.

Ten different restaurants sounds so wonderful but how many do you have to pay for ??? What a joke ! In order to avoid a line, go eat in a restaurant that has an additional cost.

"Sacred tradional dining"............A little sarcastic. :eek:
If you like Freestyle so much, why not just stick with it on NCL?


:) Well said!

[GeriatricNurse]

Newmexico Rita - for your info we were on Sapphire Princess which has four (4 - count 'em) "freestyle" (excuse me while I die laughing) restaurants in addition to a Traditional Dining Room. Being new to cruising, we loved the concept of (quoting from Princesses' brochure) "dining when and with whom you please." Not once during the entire 7 nite cruise were we able to be seated at any of the four restaurants unless we ate before 5 or after 8:30. We ended up eating at their (barf) buffet every nite. What a wonderful "vacation" that was! We haven't had the courage or inclination to take a cruise since. I heard HAL was different. That's why I'm checking this board, and I'm really disturbed at what I'm seeing here.


:) Hi Golfette:

PLEASE sail with HAL! Just choose any ship, other than Noordam & Oosterdam, (for the time being as they "experiment" with "As You Wish Dining") and enjoy a truly great cruise that, thankfully still offers, (and hopefully always will), ONLY tradtional dining!

[agabbymama]

It appears to me, as more and more people are now able to afford to cruise, the cruising culture is changing. The newer ships of NCL, Carnival and RCCI are more like amusement parks, than a cruise ship. But that appears to be what the majority of people want. 10 venues to choose from to eat? Come on, the main dining room with an alternate buffet or pizza and hamburgers should be sufficient on a cruise ship. The main dining room was always a main part of the cruise experience. I don't even care for the specialty restaurants that charge you extra. You pay for your meals when you purchase your cruise. If I want to go to Johnny Rockets, or a fancy Italian restaurant, I can do that at home. The sharing of a table for 8 in the main dining room, getting to know your tablemates, good conversation with good food is what dining on a cruise ship is about to me. But we are a spoiled society, we want to eat when and where we want to, dressed in what we want to dress in! Seems to be the attitude taking over the cruising industry as well as all other places in the World.

I can't afford to cruise Oceana or Crystal. HAL was always a traditional cruising experience. They strove for excellence and being a step above the mass market. I can only say it appears that is changing also. Whether that is because they are owned by Carnival or because that is the trend these days, I don't know. I have an Alaska cruisetour booked on HAL Zuiderdam in August '07. If these new concepts are apparent on this cruise (although it is only a 3 day cruise), this will be my last cruise. I can do all of these things on a land vacation for a lot less than a cruise costs me. As another poster on the Alaska board stated, he can stay home and have fun in Oregon without the 8% sales tax California imposes, so that's what he's going to do.

We each have to make our choices as to what we are willing to put up with or pay for. And for me, I choose not to cruise in an amusement park atmosphere. I prefer the old romantic traditional voyage, which seems to be falling by the wayside. Happy vacations to everyone!:p

[newmexicoNita]

NMnita,
I don't care for the newer larger ships with their entertainment park atmosphere, and all the changes to the traditional cruising. I like the smaller ships that HAL has and I like the traditional dining. If they keep changing cruising and don't leave some of the things I like about cruising, then I will give up cruising. There are a lot of choices out there for vacations, I have taken plenty of land vacations and can do so again. If the majority of cruisers like the free style or open dining then so be it. I can't do anything about taxes here in California either, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about it. I can do something about cruising, if I don't like the way things are, then I'll find an alternative vacation.
You are completely right: we do all have the right to complain and yes taxes in Calif are something I have lots of friends complain about. For us, we left so many years ago we can't remember them being particularly high. Of course we bi##ch about them here as well. As for changing cruising priorities, well this is something we all have to decide. There will always be the smaller ships on the luxury lines, but do most of us want to or can we afford them; I don't like mega ships either. That is why you won't find me cruising RCI or Carnival. I guess my point more than anything is: don't knock it until you have tried it and try to keep an open mind. All these people who talk about long waits, etc are exaggerating unless it was a very unusual situration.

BTW: I am not knocking traditional dining, I think for many it is part of what cruising is about. I just am bothered by all this "the way it used to be" we aren't living in those days anymore. I get on DHs case about this all the time: we can't go back so lets move forward. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

Hi Wiz

Your emphatic refusal is music to us Oceania devotees! Oceania is now booking full at least one year in advance, and their three ships are (and always have been) anytime dining - eat with whom you want, when you want, with little or no waiting and a waitstaff that is among the most attentive and professional in the industry. And miracle of miracles, we don't even have the hokey "Baked Alaska" parade!

Different strokes....

MikeMike, you are totally correct about everything you mention except the booking full more than one year out. That isn't quite true. It may apply on certain sailing but I have booked clients far closer than one year out. They do sail full; I too love the idea of no "baked Alaska" parade, etc. I didn't realize how much I don't like it til we were on HAL last month. It certainly didn't make of break our cruise, but I can live without dinner entertainment thank you. The only time it would impress me would be when cruising with my young grandkids. LOL Now, I would hop on Oceania tomorrow if I just made a little more money. LOL

[newmexicoNita]

In answer to some questions:

Freestyle Dining Experience: NCL Star - November, 2006 (the dinner line was around the corner at 6:00pm- just so happened to be first in line - after we ate and were leaving the dining room at 7:30 (chairs were placed against the walls and people were lined up on the stairs) - a woman, in line told me she had been waiting 45 minutes! NEVER AGAIN!

FYI: Diamond Princess - September, 2006 - We had traditional dining at 5:45 - (never waited) - They were serving traditional in the main dining room and the Vivaldi Dining Room (2 places).

Mike: There is no comparison to these mega-ships and Oceania....I know I will love my Oceania cruise...a big difference between 600 and 2000 or more!;) I certainly am not going to question what you experienced, but I can pretty much tell you, there must have been some reason. As I said 6 freestyle experiences, not once was there anything like that; Not even remotely so. I did see a few waiting on our first Freesyle cruise about 7:15 on Lobster night. When freestyle first started about 6 years ago on the Star and the Sun there were lots of similar problems, but certainly not in recent times. Again, I really do like the idea of allowing choices, for those who prefer "freestyle: go for it, but for those who want traditional dining, there cetainly is a place for that. My main point still is, things are changing.

golfette, what were you talking about in your rant? 4 dining rooms for personal choice, not according to my information. As for the buffet, you really could have tried something else. You choose the buffet rather than wait a few minutes. That was your decision. You may want to try a line that offers traditional dining, or maybe cruising isn't for you. Not everyone enjoys it. NMnita

[mike35]

I too love the idea of no "baked Alaska" parade, etc. I didn't realize how much I don't like it til we were on HAL last month. It certainly didn't make of break our cruise, but I can live without dinner entertainment thank you.

I can also do without towel animals every night, but again - I'm sure those with young children get a big kick out of them.

With that being said, I'll reiterate that we loved our first HAL experience, and our motto that "there's no such thing as a bad cruise, it's just that some are better than others" still applies. Our personal preferences are (1) anytime dining and (2) no formal nights, but neither are deal breakers by any stretch of the imagination. Crystal would be our favorite cruise line if not for these two factors, but we have enjoyed every cruise we've ever taken.

Mike

[jtl513]

I too love the idea of no "baked Alaska" parade, etc. I didn't realize how much I don't like it til we were on HAL last month. It certainly didn't make of break our cruise, but I can live without dinner entertainment thank you.

Then I take it that you didn't have the "Master Chef's Dinner" that's even hokier than the Baked Alaska Parade? Whoever came up with that entertain-dinner should go back to wherever they worked before HAL! :D

[newmexicoNita]

Then I take it that you didn't have the "Master Chef's Dinner" that's even hokier than the Baked Alaska Parade? Whoever came up with that entertain-dinner should go back to wherever they worked before HAL! :D
you are completely right: it was one of the silliest things I have ever seen; it wouldn't ever be enjoyable to my little grandkids I don't think.

Mike, BTW: I do like the towel animals; they make me smile, it is the kid in me I guess......

We too prefer "anytime" dining, obviously, but there is not one single issue that will make or break a cruise for us: it is the overall experience. We loved our panama Canal cruise on HAL, were there things we didn't like about HAL? Sure, but overall it was great. We prefer the relaxed attitude and the busyness of NCL but the food isn't as good nor the cabins as large. I could go on and on. We look at itinerary, decide what we need in the way of a vacation at a praticular time and proceed from there. I am just not about to get worked up over one aspect of cruising or even 2 or 3 things. NMnita

[AirGorilla]

I hope it succeeds. What's wrong with offering both "anytime" and traditional on a ship and giving passengers a choice? They are not taking away your sacred traditional dining. We like freestyle dining on NCL especially the option of dining at ten different restaurants. Of course, NCL ships are configured to this and there's nothing to keep you from dining at the same table in the same dining room every night if you wish. We prefer a table for two and dining early. When we sail HAL, since few options are available, we choose traditional, table for two early seating. On NCL, we get a table for two early every night but at many different venues. Nothing wrong with trying to please as many passengers as possible.

Hello, Dolphins --

Your point is well taken. However, I think that Doone and some of the other like-minded folks on this board may have a point. That point being that just because a ship offers both "anytime" and traditional dining choices, NOT EVERYONE will necessarily get his/her choice.

For example, if 3/4ths of the pax request traditional, some of these will not receive it. It is a numbers game, based upon dining room capacity. Also, if a large group is onboard, and requests traditional for their group, the other pax may get screwed out of traditional.

It is a complicated subject.

Happy sailing!

[AirGorilla]

It appears to me, as more and more people are now able to afford to cruise, the cruising culture is changing. The newer ships of NCL, Carnival and RCCI are more like amusement parks, than a cruise ship. But that appears to be what the majority of people want. 10 venues to choose from to eat? Come on, the main dining room with an alternate buffet or pizza and hamburgers should be sufficient on a cruise ship. The main dining room was always a main part of the cruise experience. I don't even care for the specialty restaurants that charge you extra. You pay for your meals when you purchase your cruise. If I want to go to Johnny Rockets, or a fancy Italian restaurant, I can do that at home. The sharing of a table for 8 in the main dining room, getting to know your tablemates, good conversation with good food is what dining on a cruise ship is about to me. But we are a spoiled society, we want to eat when and where we want to, dressed in what we want to dress in! Seems to be the attitude taking over the cruising industry as well as all other places in the World.

I can't afford to cruise Oceana or Crystal. HAL was always a traditional cruising experience. They strove for excellence and being a step above the mass market. I can only say it appears that is changing also. Whether that is because they are owned by Carnival or because that is the trend these days, I don't know. I have an Alaska cruisetour booked on HAL Zuiderdam in August '07. If these new concepts are apparent on this cruise (although it is only a 3 day cruise), this will be my last cruise. I can do all of these things on a land vacation for a lot less than a cruise costs me. As another poster on the Alaska board stated, he can stay home and have fun in Oregon without the 8% sales tax California imposes, so that's what he's going to do.

We each have to make our choices as to what we are willing to put up with or pay for. And for me, I choose not to cruise in an amusement park atmosphere. I prefer the old romantic traditional voyage, which seems to be falling by the wayside. Happy vacations to everyone!:p

Since you can't afford to cruise Crystal, and prefer a traditional dining experience, you may wish to try Celebrity, Carnival or RCCL. Yes, that's correct, Carnival and RCCL, those "mass market" lines which you refer to in your post above, both offer traditional two-seating dining. Their ships also offer one specialty restaurant, as well.

Enjoy!

[fsalzer]

We just returned from Oosterdam's Mexican Riviera cruise and enjoyed open-seating dining. As far as I could determine, the only wait was immediately after the captain's reception. We were told by the assistant dining room manager (Sarah) that the wait was for only a few minutes and that was confirmed the following evening by our tablemates who had attended the reception.

We (group of 4) dined at various times between 5:30 and 7:30, never had a wait and dined at tables of 4 to 8 acccording to our request that evening.

Reservations apparently could be made at times other that peak times. I overheard a couple, while requesting a table, complaining that they couldn't get a reseveration for a particular time. They were told that the reason for that policy was that to do otherwise would defeat the purpose of open-seating.

Fred

[nikkin]

About opening seating is you can wait and eat only when hungry. I think don't get that hungry at the posted dinner times.. and when I do .. I would still love to eat in dining room.. It makes perfect sense.. and saves alot of calories.. and I am a calorie counter!

[jtl513]

We too prefer "anytime" dining, obviously, but there is not one single issue that will make or break a cruise for us: it is the overall experience.

I was just wondering how well the "left over wine" situation works on the freestyle dining. On HAL's traditional dining, each wine steward only has a limited number of tables to tend to, and can store partial bottles by table number ... and have it ready in the ice bucket next to the table when you come in the next night.

But on NCL, when a person can show up anytime at a number of different restaurants ... how long does it take for them to find your bottle and get it to you? Or is it simply not done?

[fsalzer]

I was just wondering how well the "left over wine" situation works on the freestyle dining. On HAL's traditional dining, each wine steward only has a limited number of tables to tend to, and can store partial bottles by table number. But on NCL, when a person can show up anytime at a number of different restaurants ... how long does it take for them to find your bottle and get it to you? Or is it simply not done?

On Oosterdam, I couldn't get my open-seating "left over wine" at the Lido Restaurant. However, the following night it was quickly provided in open-seating by a wine steward other than the one that provided the new bottle. "Left over wine" is apparently stored by stateroom number.

Fred

[jtl513]

"Left over wine" is apparently stored by stateroom number.
That must be quite a storage room to have 950 slots! :)

[newmexicoNita]

I was just wondering how well the "left over wine" situation works on the freestyle dining. On HAL's traditional dining, each wine steward only has a limited number of tables to tend to, and can store partial bottles by table number ... and have it ready in the ice bucket next to the table when you come in the next night.

But on NCL, when a person can show up anytime at a number of different restaurants ... how long does it take for them to find your bottle and get it to you? Or is it simply not done?Very good question: I have to be honest: we never have any left over so I can't answer that. You certainly are correct about the wine stewards on HAL. We did sometimes have left over on our last cruise as we would often have 1.5 liter bottle and the other couple (the gal anyway) sometimes only had 1 glass. Always the wine was waiting for us. Nmnita

[agabbymama]

Since you can't afford to cruise Crystal, and prefer a traditional dining experience, you may wish to try Celebrity, Carnival or RCCL. Yes, that's correct, Carnival and RCCL, those "mass market" lines which you refer to in your post above, both offer traditional two-seating dining. Their ships also offer one specialty restaurant, as well.

Enjoy!

AirGorilla,
Yes, I did just do a Celebrity cruise, and loved the traditional dining. But I do love HAL so, I'd hate to see them lose the traditional cruising. Their ships are so beautiful with all the brass and wood. The teak promenade deck all the way around the ship, the wood deck chairs with thick pads and wool blankets. Just seemed a more luxurious ambiance.

I have actually tried all three lines. Carnival was just a bit to rowdy for me. While RCCI was okay, I wasn't impressed with the decor nor the shows. And we could never hear the announcements without opening the cabin door so we could hear in the hallway. Just too modern and glitzy for my taste.

But it really doesn't matter all that much, as I think my cruising days are just about at an end. I think I prefer land vacations. I can go where I want, bus/drive/or walk to see the things I want to see.

[Dolphins]

I think there a lot wrong with this. Hal is trying to turn a perfectly good dining experience into a 3 ring circus.

Ten different restaurants sounds so wonderful but how many do you have to pay for ??? What a joke ! In order to avoid a line, go eat in a restaurant that has an additional cost.

"Sacred tradional dining"............A little sarcastic. :eek:
If you like Freestyle so much, why not just stick with it on NCL?

On NCL ships having ten restaurants, only three are extra charge. I always liked HAL and after over 100 days on HAL, I gave NCL a try and was very pleasantly surprised. Don't be afraid of change, you might like it. I look forward to returning to HAL since they were flexible enough to follow in NCL's wake and schedule winter cruises out of New York. Skeptics also felt NCL's year round cruising out of New York would never work (just like freestyle dining) but it appears other cruise lines recognize a profitable innovation even though traditionalists abhor any change. Having sailed on eight different cruise lines, I never had a bad cruise and take pride in not being a galley slave chained to one line.

[newmexicoNita]

On NCL ships having ten restaurants, only three are extra charge. I always liked HAL and after over 100 days on HAL, I gave NCL a try and was very pleasantly surprised. Don't be afraid of change, you might like it. I look forward to returning to HAL since they were flexible enough to follow in NCL's wake and schedule winter cruises out of New York. Skeptics also felt NCL's year round cruising out of New York would never work (just like freestyle dining) but it appears other cruise lines recognize a profitable innovation even though traditionalists abhor any change. Having sailed on eight different cruise lines, I never had a bad cruise and take pride in not being a galley slave chained to one line.
thanks Dolphins, you are saying more simply what I have been trying to say for the past week or so. NCL was also the first line to introduce a private island, the first to introduce even one alternative dining option and the first to cruise the Caribbean (many years ago) Like you, I really enjoy HAL, we also like Celebrity, but the newer NCL ships are every bit as nice and offer many advantages. It is still up to the individual, but some of the horror stories being posted about "freestyle" are a bent a little out of proportion. NMNita

[Golfette]

New Mexico Rita - don't know where you get "your information," but when we sailed on Sapphire Princess in October of 2005, there were FOUR, 1, 2, 3, 4 Alternate Dining Rooms, the Vivaldi, Pacific Moon, Santa Fe and Steakhouse in addition to the traditional dining and a surcharge specialty restaurant. There was not a "few minute wait" for dinner at any time. As I correctly stated in my previous posting, THERE WAS NO SPACE IN ANY OF THE 4 ALTERNATE DINING ROOMS BEFORE 5 OR UNTIL AFTER 8:30 ON EVERY NIGHT OF THE CRUISE. Don't tell me my experiences didn't happen. That is exactly the way they happened. We traveled with 6 other couples and we all experienced the same treatment. We did not insist on eating together, we just wanted to eat. Unless you were there in the latter part of October, 2005 don't tell me what we experienced. It's self-described know-it-alls like you that make this site a real pain sometimes. Get your facts straight before you spout off.

[newmexicoNita]

New Mexico Rita - don't know where you get "your information," but when we sailed on Sapphire Princess in October of 2005, there were FOUR, 1, 2, 3, 4 Alternate Dining Rooms, the Vivaldi, Pacific Moon, Santa Fe and Steakhouse in addition to the traditional dining and a surcharge specialty restaurant. There was not a "few minute wait" for dinner at any time. As I correctly stated in my previous posting, THERE WAS NO SPACE IN ANY OF THE 4 ALTERNATE DINING ROOMS BEFORE 5 OR UNTIL AFTER 8:30 ON EVERY NIGHT OF THE CRUISE. Don't tell me my experiences didn't happen. That is exactly the way they happened. We traveled with 6 other couples and we all experienced the same treatment. We did not insist on eating together, we just wanted to eat. Unless you were there in the latter part of October, 2005 don't tell me what we experienced. It's self-described know-it-alls like you that make this site a real pain sometimes. Get your facts straight before you spout off.
We are referring to totally different things: the original statement referred to specialty dining not alternative anytime dining rooms. Speicialty dining rooms are normally those who require a reservation and have an additional service charge. I really don't think I ever said your experience did not happen. I will continue to question how long the wait for dinner would have been. My personal experience has been with NCL and never was the wait more than a couple of minutes; I have yet to have a client say the wait on Princess was more than that. I hope you don't have to wait to get on the golf course tomorrow; it sounds to me like you may have a pretty short fuse. this may come as a shock to you but I guess I am a know it all; I am a cruise specialist for HAL, Princess and NCL thus I think I do have my facts pretty striaght.

[CocoKai]

Our experience was the same as Golf on the Sapphire, except maybe worse. We had our children with us so eating times were needed. They are hungry when they are hungry. It's not nice to start every meal with an arguement. Reservations for 7 people to me means we want to sit together...not spread throughout the dining room.

[hammybee]

Best of all is Saga.... and Cunard Grill class.... Single sitting. Enter the dining room anytime between 7 and 9... and you still get your asigned table and waiters!

Stephen

I am curious how this works. If it's a table for 6 and one couple arrives at 7, the next couple arrives at 8 and the last couple arrives at 9, they all go to their assigned table and eat different courses, at the same time. Is this how it works? And if they really want to dine together, then it's up to them to arrive together.

It works for me but then again, I am open to anything.

[newmexicoNita]

Our experience was the same as Golf on the Sapphire, except maybe worse. We had our children with us so eating times were needed. They are hungry when they are hungry. It's not nice to start every meal with an arguement. Reservations for 7 people to me means we want to sit together...not spread throughout the dining room.
with you I agree: when 7 want to eat together flex dining does not work as well as traditional. The only way around that is to talk to the matre D' on the first day and ask for a table for 7 at a certain time each night. this can be done, of course then you have lost the attraction of flex dining. The only advantage is; you still can choose a time that meets your needs better. With traditonal you either eat at 6:15 (which is early) or 8:15 which can be late. NMnita

[hammybee]

I have yet to have a client say the wait on Princess was more than that. I am a cruise specialist for HAL, Princess and NCL thus I think I do have my facts pretty striaght.

This is the problem with generalizations.

That Golfette experienced a Princess cruise where there was no space in any of the 4 alternative dining venues, between 5-8:30, suggests that a heck of a lot of pax were dining, and unaware of any problem. They probably thought the whole deal, fabulous.

We all read of HAL pax who do not get their preferred traditional dining time, or level and sometimes even table and we read how their dissappointment sometimes influences their perception of the entire cruise and cruise line.

If by some fluke every pax wanted early or late traditional seating, half are going to be dissappointed no matter what the cruise line does, or not. I think it swell when things work out for pax. And at the same time I think it a little silly when they do not, and pax permit it to ruin their entire vacation.

NCL is attracting about 30,000 pax a week to their ships with the whole Freestyle thing. The other mass marketed cruise lines have no choice but to notice and respond. If they do not, they may not be in business, going forward.

I have not had the privilege of reviewing pax comment cards. My best guess is that HAL has been hearing for awhile that pax want change, more flexibility in dining times,less dining with strangers, smaller tables, more casual nights and so on. And they probably are aware that just as many prefer nothing change, ever. It seems to me they are trying to appeal to both sides and there is nothing wrong with this. And who knows, in time, after refinement, it might just work out to be the best thing since cruising.

[PRINSENDAM]

I am curious how this works. If it's a table for 6 and one couple arrives at 7, the next couple arrives at 8 and the last couple arrives at 9, they all go to their assigned table and eat different courses, at the same time. Is this how it works? And if they really want to dine together, then it's up to them to arrive together.

It works for me but then again, I am open to anything.



It works exactly as you have guessed above. It sounds back when you say 7, 8 and 9 o'clock arrivals but in reality that doesn't happen. On the Saga ships, a few passengers will walk in right on the button at 7pm. The majority will come in sometime between 7.17 and 7.30. Rarely does anyone every come in after that... but they can if they wish. I've always found on those ships that during teh first evening the passengers at the table will pick a time that suits all of them and then they will try to arrive at that time.

It is interesting on those ships at breakfast and lunch. You might have anywhere from 50 to 100 at breakfast and perhaps a few more at lunch. The entire dining room is open and you sit in your assigned seat. You would never be asked to sit at a different table or eat with strangers.

I'll be back on the ROSE in March. It will be my 8th time making a segment of her world cruise..... same table every year... and best of all... Jose will be my waiter... as he has been every year! Even last year when I was on the RUBY... different ship but same table location... and Jose was there too!

Stephen

[zdude]

I booked late for this cruise. I hope it works out, becuase I will most likely not get the seating that would be ideal and would like to see as you wish dining/freestyle/normal/whatever you call it work.

15 minutes is nothing to wait for a table. I can manage that.

[Tricia724]

My best guess is that HAL has been hearing for awhile that pax want change, more flexibility in dining times,less dining with strangers, smaller tables, more casual nights and so on. And they probably are aware that just as many prefer nothing change, ever. It seems to me they are trying to appeal to both sides and there is nothing wrong with this.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Right now I think HAL is between the proverbial rock and the hard place. Dining is such a hot button right now for many reasons.

I have mentioned this before on other threads, but when I was on the Veendam for the Amazon cruise, there were well over 800 passengers who requested early dining. Obviously, for space reasons, the cruiseline could not accommodate everyone's preference which meant that 200+ people were unhappy with their dining assignments. Many, many people chose to eat dinner every evening at the Lido.

No matter whether they stick with the traditional dining exclusively.....or try one of the traditional/open combinations, there are still going to be some people who are not happy with their dining experience. My take is that HAL is attempting to minimize the number of unhappy customers.....because there is no way they can make everyone happy. Whether they are going about it the right way remains to be seen.

What I find alarming is the number of recent cruisers who have booked and had confirmed dining times at booking.....then when their documents arrive, they discover they are on a "wait list" for their preferred time. It bothers me that 1) apparently "confirmed" doesn't mean squat to the cruiseline; and 2) HAL waits until final payment is made and people are in the penalty period before they find out.

We booked our February Maasdam cruise almost a year ago when everything was wide open and were confirmed for 8:00 pm seating. If in a few weeks when our documents arrive I find that our seating time has been changed, I will not be a happy camper.....not because I couldn't eat at another time and still enjoy my cruise.....but because I would feel that the cruiseline has gone back on their word and has given someone else who came along later priority over me.

I guess my concern is not so much the ongoing dining experiments but what I perceive to be a growing lack of integrity on the part of the cruiseline to honor the commitments they have made and to live up to their side of the contract.

[kryos]

Many, many people chose to eat dinner every evening at the Lido.

And also ... a lot of people just order dinner in their cabins ... overburdening the room service staff. That is why I think this flexible dining concept is being experimented with. The Lido's dinner hours are very, very restrictive ... something like 6:00 p.m. to 7:30. Miss that time, and you are stuck with pot luck. So, if someone wants late dining ... and doesn't get it ... their only option left is room service, because what would be the sense of dining in the Lido? You're gonna have to dine early anyway ... so you might as well just take your early seating slot in the dining room in that case.

So, HAL has very little in the way of options here. They can go with this flexible dining scenario and thus please almost everybody, or they can "staff up" in the Lido and expand the dinner hours there ... as well as maintain enough staff in room service to provide dinner options there. Personally, I think HAL would find the far cheaper option being to offer flexible dining and let people come to dinner when they "dammed" well please.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[fsalzer]

The Lido's dinner hours are very, very restrictive ... something like 6:00 p.m. to 7:30.

It was unclear to me to what ship you were referring, but on my recent cruise Oosterdam's Lido Restaurant dining hours were 5:30pm - 9:00pm. For comparison, open-seating dining hours were 5:15pm - 9:30pm.

Fred

[gizmo]

We are referring to totally different things: the original statement referred to specialty dining not alternative anytime dining rooms. Speicialty dining rooms are normally those who require a reservation and have an additional service charge. I really don't think I ever said your experience did not happen. I will continue to question how long the wait for dinner would have been. My personal experience has been with NCL and never was the wait more than a couple of minutes; I have yet to have a client say the wait on Princess was more than that. I hope you don't have to wait to get on the golf course tomorrow; it sounds to me like you may have a pretty short fuse. this may come as a shock to you but I guess I am a know it all; I am a cruise specialist for HAL, Princess and NCL thus I think I do have my facts pretty striaght.

We both know we are on opposite side on this issue.

What I don't understand is why you cannot believe anyone had to wait. Golfette had a bad experience with waits. You can search on the Princess board and find numerous posts from people who also had to wait. There are posts from people on this board reporting waits on both NCL and Princess also.

Comparing this with golf is moronic.

Being new to cruising, we loved the concept of (quoting from Princesses' brochure) "dining when and with whom you please.
Golfette was taken in by FALSE ADVERTISING. This is something I have complained about numerous times.

Can you guarantee me if I go to the dining room at 7:15 I will not have to wait?

Being a cruise specialist doesn't make Golfette or anyone else who experienced a wait wrong nor should they be accused of exaggerating. You weren't there ,so there is no way you would know if there was a wait or not.

[zdude]

I don't mind having to wait a bit to get a table. I will likely be a little disappointed if I resort to eating in the Lido each night. Do they serve the dining room menu?

[newmexicoNita]

This is the problem with generalizations.

That Golfette experienced a Princess cruise where there was no space in any of the 4 alternative dining venues, between 5-8:30, suggests that a heck of a lot of pax were dining, and unaware of any problem. They probably thought the whole deal, fabulous.

We all read of HAL pax who do not get their preferred traditional dining time, or level and sometimes even table and we read how their dissappointment sometimes influences their perception of the entire cruise and cruise line.

If by some fluke every pax wanted early or late traditional seating, half are going to be dissappointed no matter what the cruise line does, or not. I think it swell when things work out for pax. And at the same time I think it a little silly when they do not, and pax permit it to ruin their entire vacation.

NCL is attracting about 30,000 pax a week to their ships with the whole Freestyle thing. The other mass marketed cruise lines have no choice but to notice and respond. If they do not, they may not be in business, going forward.

I have not had the privilege of reviewing pax comment cards. My best guess is that HAL has been hearing for awhile that pax want change, more flexibility in dining times,less dining with strangers, smaller tables, more casual nights and so on. And they probably are aware that just as many prefer nothing change, ever. It seems to me they are trying to appeal to both sides and there is nothing wrong with this. And who knows, in time, after refinement, it might just work out to be the best thing since cruising.
i agree with you 100%. I do know change isn't always easy; some will accept it and be more than willing to give it a try; others make up their mind without trying and others try and are not happy. I do think the flexible dining will be harder to handle on HAL ships because they do not have an abudance of dining choices. As they build new ships this will change. There is still, at least one Pricess ship that does not offer "personal choice" I guess we will all just have to wait and see how it works out. As someone said, right now there are still mass marketed lines that haven't made the change over; maybe those will be the choice for cruisers that can not accept flex dining. My gut feeling and I have said this for 3 years is: some form of flex dining will be offered on all mass marketed ships in the future. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

We both know we are on opposite side on this issue.

What I don't understand is why you cannot believe anyone had to wait. Golfette had a bad experience with waits. You can search on the Princess board and find numerous posts from people who also had to wait. There are posts from people on this board reporting waits on both NCL and Princess also.

Comparing this with golf is moronic.


Golfette was taken in by FALSE ADVERTISING. This is something I have complained about numerous times.

Can you guarantee me if I go to the dining room at 7:15 I will not have to wait?

Being a cruise specialist doesn't make Golfette or anyone else who experienced a wait wrong nor should they be accused of exaggerating. You weren't there ,so there is no way you would know if there was a wait or not.
i do believe she had to wait: she didn't just dream it up: my last comments were 2 fold: one she did refer to me as a "know if all" well I don't know it all, but I do know how many specialty restaurants there are on various lines; I am not referring to "open seating" restaurants. I think this is where she and I differ: a lack of communication> If I don't know a little more about certain lines than the average cruiser I really shouldn't be in the business, should I?

The only thing I questioned was "how long was the wait?" Did she just walk up, find out the restaurant was full and walk away? We don't know. We all know if we go to our favorite local restaurant, at the busiest time we will have to wait for a seat. Heck we have gone to Outbake, Macaroni Grill or the likes and waited 1/2 or longer.

yes, we disagree, but if you read all my comments and you do, you know I do try to be fair plus I am the first one to say "freestyle" does not work for everyone and there are advantages to both traditional and "freestyle" Freestyle give you the oportunity to decide if you want to eat with others or by yourselves, you can decide what time is best for you: maybe you like to eat at 6:45 every night: this can't be done with traditional dining. We feel we get to know more people as we usually we choose to eat with different people each night: you don't have to worry about being with 6 or 8 people you have nothing in common with and you get to meet more of the crew. Traditonal dining offers, usually a little better service (though our last 2 traditional dining cruises the service hasn't been to swift) if you are lucky enough to be seated with really neat table mates you get to know them, you don't have to decide what time to eat every night and you never have to wait even 5 minutes unless you choose to get to the dining room before it opens for early seating. I do beleive freestyle is more difficult with large groups like families. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

I don't mind having to wait a bit to get a table. I will likely be a little disappointed if I resort to eating in the Lido each night. Do they serve the dining room menu?
Yes, they serve the same entrees but it is a little different from eating in the dining room. We did it our frist night on the Amsterdam, missed the service, but still enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere. We had planned on doing it again, but we just ended up at our regular dining table each night except for the night we choose the PG. NMnita

[hammybee]

My gut feeling and I have said this for 3 years is: some form of flex dining will be offered on all mass marketed ships in the future. NMnita

NMNita. I agree with you and I would refine this to say that some form of a more flex formal dining venue will eventually be offered on most cruise lines. In other words, the LIDO does not cut it on HAL as it relates to meeting the need.

The smaller ships have been doing this for years. Their single dining venues and limited pax have enabled a dining window. How the larger ships, especially those not designed to accommodate anything other than traditional seating, figure it out, will be very interesting. And maybe, the last cruise line to change, will capture the lion's share of traditional dining business. I am willing to bet that this is not going to be a cruise line with more than 10,000 pax capasity.

[Golfette]

Thank you gizmo and CocoKai for understanding what I was trying to say about the difficulty we experienced on Sapphire Princess in getting seated in the 4 Alternate Dining rooms.

NewmexicoRita, OF COURSE I didn't just walk up, inquire and walk away! I know you must be a genius, but give me a little credit for having some intelligence. We tried making dining reservations the 1st day for the entire week. We tried calling early every a.m. Every night at each of the 4 alternate venues, there were hordes of people waiting . We were told there was NOTHING OPEN TIL AFTER 8:30. We were told NOT TO WAIT. There wasn't even any space to wait unless we wanted to stand in a long line in the hallway! Since we don't care to eat dinner before 6:30 or so, and get hungry around 7, the option was waiting til after 8:30 or eating at the buffet. Now, is this perfectly clear to you, or do you have other questions?

[Golfette]

Thank you gizmo and CocoKai for understanding what I was trying to say about the difficulty we experienced on Sapphire Princess in getting seated in the 4 Alternate Dining rooms.

NewmexicoRita, OF COURSE I didn't just walk up, inquire and walk away! I know you must be a genius, but give me a little credit for having some intelligence. We tried making dining reservations the 1st day for the entire week. We tried calling early every a.m. Every night at each of the 4 alternate venues, there were hordes of people waiting . We were told there was NOTHING OPEN TIL AFTER 8:30. We were told NOT TO WAIT. There wasn't even any space to wait unless we wanted to stand in a long line in the hallway! Since we don't care to eat dinner before 6:30 or so, and get hungry around 7, the option was waiting til after 8:30 or eating at the buffet. Now, is this perfectly clear to you, or do you have other questions?

[joycefnp]

Boy, my experience is that nothing causes more incensed debate re: cruising than the "freestyle" dining. I believe the NCL Sun was one of the first ships to go to this, and we sailed it a few months after it's inaugural cruise. We really loved the alternative dining venues on that ship, but did get tired of paying more to eat when we had already paid. But the biggest loss was really the lack of any kind of relationship with your wait staff and your table mates. I've always found that to be a one of the enjoyable aspects of a cruise. Even bad table mates can be a source of amusement for years :>) I sailed the Star Princess 2 years ago with my sister, and we chose traditional seating and had the best table mates anyone could ask for. We all hung out the whole week, and it made our cruise so much more memorable. That just doesn't happen with open seating. But I do believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that they offer a traditional dining room and an open seating dining room, which may satisfy everyone. I have however, definitely encountered difficulties making reservations in the alternative dining rooms on both of the freestyle ships I have been on. Since the Zuiderdam only has one, I may not get to use my free meal!

[kryos]

We really loved the alternative dining venues on that ship, but did get tired of paying more to eat when we had already paid. But the biggest loss was really the lack of any kind of relationship with your wait staff and your table mates.
I sometimes wonder if the only reason a mass market cruise line, such as HAL or NCL, would go with this flexible dining is to bump up revenue for the alternative restaurants? Let's face it ... if at some point freestyle dining is the only option on HAL, and if some people find the waits for a table too long for their comfort, it might just be easier to make reservations at a specialty restaurant where one can be seated immediately ... even though there is a charge.

I know the new Signature Class HAL ship coming out will have a second specialty restaurant (in addition to the Pinnacle Grill), so maybe HAL is looking toward the future with its bigger and bigger ships in their experimentation with "freestyle" now? I still say, even if HAL adopts 100% freestyle dining, it won't be on the smaller ships. I think they'll restrict it to the Vista class and above ... since those are the ships that generally do the shorter, "family-style" sailings. And, I personally believe, that is exactly the market that would embrace freestyle dining.

I know it may sound farfetched that HAL would experiment with dining offerings in an effort to bump up revenue on something that didn't generate much additional revenue before ... namely, dining ... but again, let's face it, with the price of cruising actually coming down, HAL has to find ways to increase onboard revenue ... from whatever source it can be derived. It's the only way they will be able to stay afloat (pardon the pun) in the future ... especially if the cost of cruising continues to come down due to competition.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Yes, they serve the same entrees but it is a little different from eating in the dining room. We did it our frist night on the Amsterdam, missed the service, but still enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere. We had planned on doing it again, but we just ended up at our regular dining table each night except for the night we choose the PG. NMnita
I only wish they would extend the hours for casual dinner in the Lido. I love it there, but the restrictive hours make it hard to take advantage of that dining option on the HAL ships.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[gizmo]

I hope Omnium doesn't mind but I copied this from his review. Excellent insite on this issue.

James mentioned that they did this to respond to trends. Changes in demographics, tastes, more parents traveling with kids, etc. He also discussed the overwhelming logistics in doing this. Were they ready? No. This was the first week of a four week experiment.

Is it correct to respond to trends? Absolutely. You must do this, because the next one that comes about may be the big one that changes the industry, and you don't want to be left behind. You can try to block the move of a competitor, fight them head on, or come up with something to differentiate yourself altogether.

Rule #1 in marketing is to be first. NCL is certainly not first in cruising. When you are not #1, what do you do? Create a new category and position yourself as the leader and first in your category. NCL did not invent open seating dining, but that does not matter who invented it. What is important is who is first in marketing it and in claiming leadership. (by positioning I mean, where are you positioned in your customer's mind, in particular who is first. ie when you ask people what comes to mind when you say cola, they will say Coke, Pepsi, etc.).

HAL is responding to the trend, but way too late. Years late to be exact. But, let's look at an even bigger picture here. All cruiselines, with the exception of maybe Crystal and Regent market themselves as having something for everybody. That is a trap that oh so many businesses fall into. You cannot be all things for all people. By doing that you will someday have nothing for nobody. (nice use of a double negative, Kerry!). Look at Chevrolet? What is it? It is a big, small, fast, slow, family, sexy, expensive, cheap car. By trying to become all things to all people, a once great car company has lost its identity.

In the cruise industry they are all in jeopardy of losing their identity. You cannot be all things to all people. Nor do you want to be. You have to stand for something. You have to have a covenant with your customers. What is HAL's promise? If I asked every employee what their brand promise is, would I get the same message? Doubtful.

Where does that leave HAL? Aren't the ships full, and new ones are on the way? Of course. But, are they making all the money they can, and are they controlling the market? Of course not.

What can they do? As I said, create a new category of cruising. Or, repostion the leader. Show the errors of anytime and open seating dining, and that HAL is the leader in tradtional dining. Market themselves as first in cruising as it is meant to be. I'll bet there is a huge audience for this. There are a number of ways to do this. The worst one is to fight head on with a category leader.

I do applaud them at trying something, even when it is not 100% ready. You can't wait. You have to move and fix it on the fly. I firmly agree with that.

What I don't agree with, is the "me too" attitude that they and all cruise lines take. You cannot operate on the philosophy that "hey, we have that too!".

What differentiates you from the rest? That is what you start with. The anytime dining is only a trick. It will by no means increase HAL's market share. HAL has a lot that seperates it from the pack. It is time they use that in their marketing.

I mention this because I had such a great cruise, and would hate to see them water down the HAL experience.

[fsalzer]

I only wish they would extend the hours for casual dinner in the Lido. I love it there, but the restrictive hours make it hard to take advantage of that dining option on the HAL ships.

5:30pm - 9:00pm is quite a wide window for dining. What times would you prefer?

Fred

[AirGorilla]

Thank you gizmo and CocoKai for understanding what I was trying to say about the difficulty we experienced on Sapphire Princess in getting seated in the 4 Alternate Dining rooms.

NewmexicoRita, OF COURSE I didn't just walk up, inquire and walk away! I know you must be a genius, but give me a little credit for having some intelligence. We tried making dining reservations the 1st day for the entire week. We tried calling early every a.m. Every night at each of the 4 alternate venues, there were hordes of people waiting . We were told there was NOTHING OPEN TIL AFTER 8:30. We were told NOT TO WAIT. There wasn't even any space to wait unless we wanted to stand in a long line in the hallway! Since we don't care to eat dinner before 6:30 or so, and get hungry around 7, the option was waiting til after 8:30 or eating at the buffet. Now, is this perfectly clear to you, or do you have other questions?


Since you don't care to dine prior to 6:30 PM, and you "get hungry" around 7:00 PM, you have a very narrow, inflexible window for when you must dine. Traditional dining has two seatings, approximately 6:00 PM and approximately 8:15 PM -- from your comments, neither would be acceptable to you.

I hope that you like buffets!!

[BruceMuzz]

As you wish dining has yielded several surprises for HAL.

Previously they had 300 to 400 people waitlisted every week for either early or late dining. Very few of these people had any chance to be accommodated in a seating that was already filled to capacity. Many of these people were forced to dine in the Lido or use room service every night in order to have a comfortable dining time.

The new dining program allows HAL to serve more people in the Open Dining section. The new program also features extended Lido hours anad service and menu upgrades in the Lido. It turns out that these may not have been necessary. With the increased capacity in the open dining room, far fewer people are using the Lido and Room service for dinner. Those who do choose to use them find far improved service, quality, and timing.

The most surprising development is with the Pinnacle Grill. It seems that the increased capacity of open dining has decreased the need to go to the Pinnacle Grill to get a preferred dining time. The Pinnacle Grill has seen quite a decrease in business as a result. This is great news for everyone.
First, it is now easier to get a table in Pinnacle Grill.
Second, HAL will not be forced to raise the Cover Charge again anytime soon.

[newmexicoNita]

Since you don't care to dine prior to 6:30 PM, and you "get hungry" around 7:00 PM, you have a very narrow, inflexible window for when you must dine. Traditional dining has two seatings, approximately 6:00 PM and approximately 8:15 PM -- from your comments, neither would be acceptable to you.

I hope that you like buffets!!It seems to me people who are very restricted on their likes and dislikes and seem to have no flexiblity may find other vacation options. One thing we love about the open dining idea is the choice of what time we eat, even if we choose the same time every night. We don't like eating at 6pm necessarily (certainly not every night) and 8;15 is a bet late. We usually dine when cruising around 6:30 to 6:45 but have opt for as early as 5:30 or as late as 9pm depending on our moods. Yes, sometimes the extra charge restaurants are booked up (NCL anyway) and we have to decide how much we really want to try the particular restaurant; if it is really important to us we will wait til 9pm. We just plan a later lunch or grab a snack. NMNita

[hammybee]

As you wish dining has yielded several surprises for HAL.

Previously they had 300 to 400 people waitlisted every week for either early or late dining. Very few of these people had any chance to be accommodated in a seating that was already filled to capacity. Many of these people were forced to dine in the Lido or use room service every night in order to have a comfortable dining time.

The new dining program allows HAL to serve more people in the Open Dining section.

This is interesting, Bruce. 300-400 pax being waitlisted cause their first choice was filled. Wow. If you get the opportunity, could you pop over to the "tinknock/atomica idea" thread. Am I making too much of the potential opportunity for CHAOS? I am neutral on the topic and really want HAL to accommodate both sides. Thx.

[fsalzer]

300-400 pax being waitlisted cause their first choice was filled.
I can see that could really be a problem if all the othewise waitlisted pax chose open seating.

It would be interesting to see the actual numbers of pax and actual dining times for those ships with open seating. I'm sure that HAL will have many numbers to crunch for Oosterdam. Pax were being asked for cabin numbers at the Lido Restaurant in the evening and main dining room at breakfast. I don't know about the main dining room at lunch as we never ate lunch there.

Fred

[joycefnp]

Out of curiosity, what happens when so many people are waitlisted for a dining time? I am on a waitlist for the 8:30 (apparently there were about 300 on the 8:00) 8:30 seems kind of late, but I really don't like the early time, it cuts into your time in port. I guess this sounds dumb, but does everyone just get assigned to the early seatings or are there people who just don't get an assignment? Do you find out before you leave which seating you're at, or when you embark? I've been on maybe 8 or more cruises, but I've never been waitlisted before? Is this a HAL phenomenon?

[WNYCRUISER]

As you wish dining has yielded several surprises for HAL.
And for the the cruising customers as well.

With the increased capacity in the open dining room, far fewer people are using the Lido and Room service for dinner. Those who do choose to use them find far improved service, quality, and timing.

At the expense of the service in the Main Dining Room fromm the way it sounds.

The most surprising development is with the Pinnacle Grill. It seems that the increased capacity of open dining has decreased the need to go to the Pinnacle Grill to get a preferred dining time. The Pinnacle Grill has seen quite a decrease in business as a result. This is great news for everyone.
First, it is now easier to get a table in Pinnacle Grill.
Second, HAL will not be forced to raise the Cover Charge again anytime soon.

I would be willing to make a bet that the decrease in the use of the Pinnacle Grill is a result of them increasing the Cover Charge, not as a result of the new dining arrangement.

[fsalzer]

Out of curiosity, what happens when so many people are waitlisted for a dining time?
On our first HAL cruise we were waitlisted for early dining and, therefore, ate at the Lido Restaurant. It was very enjoyable, but different, dining experience. HAL has candles (or really great fake ones) on the tables, which surprises me from a safety viewpoint.

Fred

[hammybee]

Out of curiosity, what happens when so many people are waitlisted for a dining time? I am on a waitlist for the 8:30 (apparently there were about 300 on the 8:00) 8:30 seems kind of late, but I really don't like the early time, it cuts into your time in port. I guess this sounds dumb, but does everyone just get assigned to the early seatings or are there people who just don't get an assignment? Do you find out before you leave which seating you're at, or when you embark? I've been on maybe 8 or more cruises, but I've never been waitlisted before? Is this a HAL phenomenon?

Well let's see. A ship has only X seats in a dining room and when those seats are claimed by other pax who booked earlier or have a priority, people get wiatlisted. When a ship is full, there are almost always waitlists for dining times, on all cruise lines. More than likely you will find your actual assigned time, once you board. If it is not to your liking, you can go to the dining room and see if they can change it and know that everyone else is probably doing the same thing.

I have no idea if wait listing is more common on HAL than not. I think that the more cruises people have under their belts, the more likely they are to develop strong preferences. I also think that there has been a huge increase in the number of larger group cruises and often times they obtain priority seating.. This too happens on all cruise lines. In other words, it's a fact of life in mass marketed cruising.

[joycefnp]

I wonder if there is a higher demand for later seatings on HAL, since from what I've read, there are fewer families with small children. Oh well, since I don't like to eat at buffets every night, if I have to eat early, I will. I've had good luck in the past getting my tables changed, so maybe I will have luck getting the time changed also. It will be a great time regardless.

I did however speak with my CA, and according to her, ALL the dining times were waitlisted. That seems kind of odd, almost like there aren't enough seating times for all the passengers. Maybe they just do that until they get all the arrangements finalized.

[kryos]

5:30pm - 9:00pm is quite a wide window for dining. What times would you prefer?

Fred
Well, if those were the hours on your cruise ... I agree, nothing wrong with them at all. But on the Amsterdam ... both my cruise last January and the one this October, the hours for a full dinner in the Lido were only an hour and a half ... I believe 6:00 to 7:30 ... or maybe 5:30 to 7:00. That was it. So, if you didn't care to dine early, the Lido was not an option.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[GeriatricNurse]

I wonder if there is a higher demand for later seatings on HAL, since from what I've read, there are fewer families with small children. Oh well, since I don't like to eat at buffets every night, if I have to eat early, I will. I've had good luck in the past getting my tables changed, so maybe I will have luck getting the time changed also. It will be a great time regardless.

I did however speak with my CA, and according to her, ALL the dining times were waitlisted. That seems kind of odd, almost like there aren't enough seating times for all the passengers. Maybe they just do that until they get all the arrangements finalized.


:) I would intend to agree with your statement: "Maybe they just do that until they get all the arrangements finalized"

Four of us booked the April 30, 2007 HAL Trans Panama Canal cruise on ms Amsterdam through a local TA last October & at the time of the booking ALL of the dining times were waitlisted, six months before the cruise!

[LV2KruzCats]

We are thinking of switching from Celebrity to HAL for Hawaii RT in the fall of 2008, on the Zaandam.

Please explain the dining choices. We are used to early or late set assigned seating on Celebrity. Do all the HAL ships have open seating now ? We see that there are four choices for dining preference, and would love an explanation. Have searched HAL's web site but can't find any further info.

Thanks !

:):D:)

[fsalzer]

Well, if those were the hours on your cruise ... I agree, nothing wrong with them at all.
That was on Oosterdam's 1/6/07 cruise. I do not know about any others.

Fred

[sab490]

We are thinking of switching from Celebrity to HAL for Hawaii RT in the fall of 2008, on the Zaandam.

Please explain the dining choices. We are used to early or late set assigned seating on Celebrity. Do all the HAL ships have open seating now ? We see that there are four choices for dining preference, and would love an explanation. Have searched HAL's web site but can't find any further info.

Thanks !

:):D:)

As you can tell by the posts here, HAL's dining is in a state of flux. They are "experimenting" with having 2 traditional seatings (early and main) in the uipper level dining room and open seating ("as you wish") in the lower dining room, but only on the Oosterdam and Noordam as far as we can tell. I assume that they will settle on a fleetwide policy by the time of your cruise. All I can tell you difinitively is that the policy on Noordam extends at least until 12/2007. We are booked for that cruise and there are only two times available for "traditional" dining. If you don't want to get waitlisted, I would suggest that you try to get confirmed for either early or main upper when you book, since it appears those two times will remain. I doubt they will do away with traditional dining entirely.

FYI we were Celebrity/RCCL fans until our Noordam cruise last month. We are now HAL converts.

[kryos]

I would be willing to make a bet that the decrease in the use of the Pinnacle Grill is a result of them increasing the Cover Charge, not as a result of the new dining arrangement.
Exactly. For $20 bucks a pop ($40 per couple), people were willing to "splurge." At $30 ($60 per couple) it's become an unnecessary extravagance. After all, I can eat in the dining room for no additional money. So why not take that extra $60 bucks and put it into something I can't get elsewhere for free ... like a more elaborate shore excursion, casino money, shopping, etc.?

HAL priced the Pinnacle way to high for a lot of folks' comfort zones. But then ... there could have been a reason for that too. I still say that more TA's are gonna get voucher packages from HAL to award to their clients ... as incentives to book them on HAL rather than another cruise line. If just about everyone on the ship has a free Pinnacle voucher to use during the cruise (as seemed to be the case on my last voyage ... at least judging by the people I talked to who all had one), the Pinnacle will be seeing plenty of business ... even if not one passenger books it on their own. And maybe that, in fact, is the "method" to HAL's madness.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I would be willing to make a bet that the decrease in the use of the Pinnacle Grill is a result of them increasing the Cover Charge, not as a result of the new dining arrangement.

I am sorry but I totally disagree with this statement. The Pinnacle Grill raised it's pricing to $30 per person the latter part of September. When we cruised on the Veendam the last week of September the new price had already gone into effect. While we were only on the Veendam for 4 night and did not go to the Pinnacle it looked to be very busy all 4 nights. Same is so for the Zaandam in mid November. We did dine one evening and one lunch in the Pinnacle. The first sea day we had lunch and we were very close to the front and saw numerous people trying to make reservations and kept being told the night they were choosing they were booked solid. Some did not make reservations while other chose times that were very early or very late. When we did dine in the Pinnacle we dined early and when we arrived at 6:30 there were probably 4 or 5 empty tables. But I think this is common for the Pinnacle that they do not ever pack every table. Every night we did walk by the Pinnacle always was extremely busy.

It is just my opinion that the price does not effect the numbers at all. You have to remember other cruiselines charge a fee that is very similiar as well as many do not remember what they paid prior and just as many have never cruised HAL or cruised at all before.(Believe it or not many don't even remember the ship name after a few weeks:eek: ) So I do believe what I have read here on this board that the raise in price was partly a crowd control thing. I can also see where the Pinnacle most likely was not as busy with the open dining because there are many that want to eat at about 7. Many think that 5:45/6:15 was too early and 8:00/8:30 is too late. This way they can go to the Dining Room at 7:00 instead of going to the Pinnacle and Lido at this time.

Now with more people being able to dine when they wish do I see them lowering the price of the Pinnacle? Absolutely NOT:D

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I would be willing to make a bet that the decrease in the use of the Pinnacle Grill is a result of them increasing the Cover Charge, not as a result of the new dining arrangement.

I am sorry but I totally disagree with this statement. The Pinnacle Grill raised it's pricing to $30 per person the latter part of September. When we cruised on the Veendam the last week of September the new price had already gone into effect. While we were only on the Veendam for 4 night and did not go to the Pinnacle it looked to be very busy all 4 nights. Same is so for the Zaandam in mid November. We did dine one evening and one lunch in the Pinnacle. The first sea day we had lunch and we were very close to the front and saw numerous people trying to make reservations and kept being told the night they were choosing they were booked solid. Some did not make reservations while other chose times that were very early or very late. When we did dine in the Pinnacle we dined early and when we arrived at 6:30 there were probably 4 or 5 empty tables. But I think this is common for the Pinnacle that they do not ever pack every table. Every night we did walk by the Pinnacle always was extremely busy.

It is just my opinion that the price does not effect the numbers at all. You have to remember other cruiselines charge a fee that is very similiar as well as many do not remember what they paid prior and just as many have never cruised HAL or cruised at all before.(Believe it or not many don't even remember the ship name after a few weeks:eek: ) So I do believe what I have read here on this board that the raise in price was partly a crowd control thing. I can also see where the Pinnacle most likely was not as busy with the open dining because there are many that want to eat at about 7. Many think that 5:45/6:15 was too early and 8:00/8:30 is too late. This way they can go to the Dining Room at 7:00 instead of going to the Pinnacle and Lido at this time.

Now with more people being able to dine when they wish do I see them lowering the price of the Pinnacle? Absolutely NOT:D

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I know I have posted to this thread 2 times now, I just wihs I knew if it took or it is lost in cyberspace:o :confused:

[LAFFNVEGAS]

still looking for lost posts:confused:

see, I knew they were there but now I see it doubled ;) sorry about that

[hammybee]

(Believe it or not many don't even remember the ship name after a few weeks:eek: ) ]

Did you catch this too or are you generalizing? :)

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Yes, I did;) (hammy you did the same as me and checked the previous post) but actually I know of several here at work that have been on cruises and in all honestly they don't remember the name of the ship or even the cruise line. I know that we have had table mates and the first night you ask if they have cruised before and they say yes but could not tell you what ship it was. I think so many of us that are regular poster here are actually a very rare breed and not the average cruiser.:D

[newmexicoNita]

I am sorry but I totally disagree with this statement. The Pinnacle Grill raised it's pricing to $30 per person the latter part of September. When we cruised on the Veendam the last week of September the new price had already gone into effect. While we were only on the Veendam for 4 night and did not go to the Pinnacle it looked to be very busy all 4 nights. Same is so for the Zaandam in mid November. We did dine one evening and one lunch in the Pinnacle. The first sea day we had lunch and we were very close to the front and saw numerous people trying to make reservations and kept being told the night they were choosing they were booked solid. Some did not make reservations while other chose times that were very early or very late. When we did dine in the Pinnacle we dined early and when we arrived at 6:30 there were probably 4 or 5 empty tables. But I think this is common for the Pinnacle that they do not ever pack every table. Every night we did walk by the Pinnacle always was extremely busy.

It is just my opinion that the price does not effect the numbers at all. You have to remember other cruiselines charge a fee that is very similiar as well as many do not remember what they paid prior and just as many have never cruised HAL or cruised at all before.(Believe it or not many don't even remember the ship name after a few weeks:eek: ) So I do believe what I have read here on this board that the raise in price was partly a crowd control thing. I can also see where the Pinnacle most likely was not as busy with the open dining because there are many that want to eat at about 7. Many think that 5:45/6:15 was too early and 8:00/8:30 is too late. This way they can go to the Dining Room at 7:00 instead of going to the Pinnacle and Lido at this time.

Now with more people being able to dine when they wish do I see them lowering the price of the Pinnacle? Absolutely NOT:D We were there in Nov/Dec after the price wnet into affect: PG certainly wasn't empty, but it wasn't full. I think the price has affected the business, but I doubt we will see it dropped. I will say, I am not certain I would pay $30.00. We had booked prior to the increase. $20, was probably worth it, but not $30.00. NMnita

[gizmo]

I think prices do effect the Pinnacle. I think 30.00 is too high. 20.00 was pushing it.

The PG gets booked solid because a very high percentage of people have been given dinner at the PG from their TA. (The TA's do not pay 30.00 PP like a regular pax)

[caviargal]

I think prices do effect the Pinnacle. I think 30.00 is too high. 20.00 was pushing it.

The PG gets booked solid because a very high percentage of people have been given dinner at the PG from their TA. (The TA's do not pay 30.00 PP like a regular pax)

I agree that 30 is too steep for the PG.

As a TA, I pay the full rate for my clients. Perhaps HAL treats others differently.

[gizmo]

I agree that 30 is too steep for the PG.

As a TA, I pay the full rate for my clients. Perhaps HAL treats others differently.

If for some reason the pax cannot get reservations, a credit is given to their on board account. It is not for 30.00, it is lower. Sorry but I can't remember what is was.

[gizmo]

This was posted Nov 2006

Yes, you can turn in your PG gift certificates for shipboard credit (OBC). They were valued at $18 per person on our recent Westerdam trip. Be sure to check with the front desk, just in case.

[kryos]

I agree that 30 is too steep for the PG.

As a TA, I pay the full rate for my clients. Perhaps HAL treats others differently.
Sounds like you're getting shafted to me. HAL MUST treat others differently ... or else all these TA's wouldn't be giving those vouchers out like candy.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

If for some reason the pax cannot get reservations, a credit is given to their on board account. It is not for 30.00, it is lower. Sorry but I can't remember what is was.
That shouldn't be. If HAL is gonna give those vouchers out, then they should make sure they only give out as many for a particular cruise that they can accommodate. I'd raise holy cain if HAL gave me one dime less than $30 if they couldn't accommodate me in the Pinnacle on that voucher.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Tricia724]

Our Pinnacle Grill experience was on Veendam in October. We had jumped on the bandwagon when the price went up and booked in advance for two evenings at the PG to take advantage of the $20pp charge.

The first evening we went for my birthday. We booked for 7:00 pm, and we were the only people there....until 8:00 pm when one other couple came in. The food was excellent, service was good, but I felt a little like a goldfish in a bowl.

The second evening we also booked for 7:00 pm, and there were a few other couples there, plus some of the officers had a table in the back with some guests. The food and service wasn't quite as good as the first time, but it was nice. I doubt we'll go back again, unless it is a comp or a special circumstance.

We walked past the PG every evening on the way to dinner and noticed that often the place was very empty. The Manager told us that on longer trips (ours was over 30 days), they are busy at the beginning and the end, but not much happens in the middle. Perhaps the PG does better on the shorter cruises when there is a faster turnover and higher demand.

I also notice on some of the discount websites that I frequently see bottles of wine and dinner at the PG offered for certain cruises. I have often wondered whether these incentives were being offered by HAL or by the TA, but it would certainly explain why there is a high demand for seating on some cruises.

[kryos]

still looking for lost posts:confused:

see, I knew they were there but now I see it doubled ;) sorry about that
I've lost a couple of posts on this thread now too. Have no idea where they went.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

We walked past the PG every evening on the way to dinner and noticed that often the place was very empty. The Manager told us that on longer trips (ours was over 30 days), they are busy at the beginning and the end, but not much happens in the middle. Perhaps the PG does better on the shorter cruises when there is a faster turnover and higher demand.

I would imagine that is exactly the case. On my 30-day Hawaii/South Pacific cruise I dined in the Pinnacle four times (it was still $20 pp back then). The last time was about five days before the end of the cruise ... a singles/solos group dinner arranged by the cruise director's staff. That dinner was the first time many of the singles and solos had experienced the Pinnacle, and many of them liked it so much that they wanted to go back again before the end of the cruise. When they tried to make reservations, however, they were told that the Pinnacle was not accepting any more reservations for the duration of the cruise because they were totally booked up. Apparently lots of people wait until the end of the cruise to book, and the place simply can't handle all those diners.

I would imagine on a seven-day cruise it would be similar. A boatload of people all trying to book at least one, maybe two, Pinnacle dinners for their cruise ... and only seven nights for all those people to be accommodated. Obviously, it's not gonna happen ... especially with travel agents giving out those "Pinnacle Experience" vouchers now. And maybe that's the reason for the price increase ... to lessen demand and allow the Pinnacle to accommodate all those passengers with the free vouchers.

But on longer cruises ... I can't imagine there being a problem getting Pinnacle reservations. Same boatload of passengers ... but many more evenings in which to accommodate them in the Pinnacle.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[peaches from georgia]

The problem getting reservations on many ships, if not all, is that there is not enough help working in the PG and reservations are limited to 1/3 of the tables and even less.

There was a big CC thread about this in Dec. On the Volendam when we sailed there was even a long line of people at the PG maitre d's stand of pax who had a gift of a PG dinner from their TA for anytime on the cruise, yet they were all told that there were no reservations left for the entire cruise. We ate in the PG twice and both times there were no more than 6-8 tables being used. There were very few stewards, so this is all the diners that could be accomodated. All this was confirmed by the concierge.

That thread in December had many posts confirming this is the situation on many of the ships. It's not that people don't want to eat there and that all tables are booked; there just are very few reservations being taken due to lack of stewards to handle all but a small amount of tables.

[newmexicoNita]

The problem getting reservations on many ships, if not all, is that there is not enough help working in the PG and reservations are limited to 1/3 of the tables and even less.

There was a big CC thread about this in Dec. On the Volendam when we sailed there was even a long line of people at the PG maitre d's stand of pax who had a gift of a PG dinner from their TA for anytime on the cruise, yet they were all told that there were no reservations left for the entire cruise. We ate in the PG twice and both times there were no more than 6-8 tables being used. There were very few stewards, so this is all the diners that could be accomodated. All this was confirmed by the concierge.

That thread in December had many posts confirming this is the situation on many of the ships. It's not that people don't want to eat there and that all tables are booked; there just are very few reservations being taken due to lack of stewards to handle all but a small amount of tables.
peaches, you are pretty much on with this one: this is true with all the lines; you can hear the same comments about Celebrity and NCL. NCL, no matter when you go into the specialty restaurants they are rarely anywhere near full, yet getting reservations can be next to impossible. Same reason< service has to be impecable (spelling) and they just don't have that many wait people. NMnita

[caviargal]

peaches, you are pretty much on with this one: this is true with all the lines; you can hear the same comments about Celebrity and NCL. NCL, no matter when you go into the specialty restaurants they are rarely anywhere near full, yet getting reservations can be next to impossible. Same reason< service has to be impecable (spelling) and they just don't have that many wait people. NMnita

Murano was filled each night of our recent Century cruise. It was delightful.

The PG was very busy on my ZUI cruise last year with very few empty tables. We dined there 6 of 7 nights always at 8pm or later.

On a recent RCI cruise, Chops was full on the three nights we were there and Portofino about half full the other three nights.

I generally forget about the main dining room these days on most ships and prefer to pay the supplement for an adult dining experience that offers better food and service. It is an added expense but one we enjoy.

We are booked for PG 4 of 7 nights on our upcoming OS cruise.

[sab490]

I just posed the suggestion to HAL via their web site that they should post a clarification on their web site as to which ships will have which dining policies on which dates. One would think they are aware of the confusion going on and they certainly don't need any more bad publicity after the cheap ticket fiasco. The current situation makes it look like they don't have a clue what they are doing and that is contrary to everything we know and love about HAL.

They have always been good about responding to questions, so we shall see how they handle mine. I will post here when I hear from them.

[joycefnp]

Is there anyway to book the Pinnacle Grill prior to departure? Does anyone know how far in advance they book while on the ship? In other words, can I embark, go straight to the restuarant and book for anytime in the week? Does anyone know if you can make reservations right away, or if you have to wait until later in the evening?

[GeriatricNurse]

Is there anyway to book the Pinnacle Grill prior to departure? Does anyone know how far in advance they book while on the ship? In other words, can I embark, go straight to the restuarant and book for anytime in the week? Does anyone know if you can make reservations right away, or if you have to wait until later in the evening?


:) I was just about to post the very same questions!

[caviargal]

You can call Ships Services to book and prepay prior to sailing. I did this months ago for April cruise.

Forget using their email as they are lax in replying, IME.

[kcliff01]

I sure hope they've improved on Princess "Anytime" dining which is NOT show up any time and be seated. We've done it twice and had waits of 10 - 45 minutes, even when we had a reservation for the same table and time for the week. It's a mess with a lot of very frustrated people thinking they can just show up and be seated for dinner. I'm sticking with Traditional fixed time dining.

You know, it's funny how people have different experiences. I have been on Princess 4 times (Coral, Grand, Caribbean twice). Had Personal Choice dining all four times and never had to wait more than 5 minutes for a table of 2.

[bankerbabe]

You know, it's funny how people have different experiences. I have been on Princess 4 times (Coral, Grand, Caribbean twice). Had Personal Choice dining all four times and never had to wait more than 5 minutes for a table of 2.

We had the very same experience. We really enjoyed the Anytime Dining, we could choose the table size depending on how social we were feeling that evening, and we could eat whenever we felt like it. We never waited for a table for more than a few minutes and we got to meet different people every night.

The waiters were excellent - one noticed that I was practically licking the crème brulee from the dish and promptly brought me another one, without being asked. I understand the appeal of having the wait staff remember what beverage you would prefer with and after dinner, etc. but I usually change my mind every night.

Personally, I would like to have Dine as you Wish for our upcoming Noordam cruise. I would rather see someone who wants the set dining time get it. I was really worried about being tied down to a set dining time - what if I didn't like my table mates, my waiter, or where I was sitting? I like variety, what if the waiter keeps bringing me the same beverage night after night?

Oh who really cares, as long as I get to be on the ship and there is no shortage of frilly drinks with umbrellas :)

[wizard-of-roz]

Nita: I humbly bow to you....the guru of travel....but, if one has a horrid experience....allow them the space to express that...exaggeration holds no boudaries here......

We had an horrific (the only word I could think of) experience on NCL and we will NEVER travel on them again.

To think that the dining experience can keep one away from a cruiseline....how simplistic is that?????

Oh! I know that the NCL cheerleaders love to hear that their beloved NCL will be wide open for them....but, I have never seen people treated so much like cattle in all my life......

I would love to see a commercial using cattle/sheep, etc....to explain what freestyle/anytime/personal choice truly is........:eek:

[gizmo]

I would love to see a commercial using cattle/sheep, etc....to explain what freestyle/anytime/personal choice truly is........:eek:

Love it. Don't forget to throw in the beepers. ROTFLMAF :D

[kryos]

Has anyone considered what the Waiters and Assts think... I hop the new choice doesn't cause them more work...they are already doing about 14 hour days.....7 days a week.....for 12 months.....
I'd love to know this as well.

I would think "anytime" dining would actually be easier on them since clearly there would be a "rush" period and then toward the upper end of the window, there would be few people coming into the dining room. That would mean that the head waiters could "release" some of their staff a bit earlier than they could be released in traditional dining ... and keep only enough people on duty to handle the last minute stragglers. So, I would imagine their actual workday would be a bit shorter under this new set-up. But, of course, I could be wrong.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Love it. Don't forget to throw in the beepers. ROTFLMAF :D
LOL ... and how about the cell phones too? :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[newmexicoNita]

staying in Plantation will always save you money; class per class. this doesn't mean a 4* hotel in Plantation will be less than a 2* in Lauderdale, but the further away you get from the water the less you will pay and there are many nice choices in the Plantation area. As for us, we usually do stay at Hamptons Inns because they are one of the few mid range hotels that are uniform and almost always satisfactory.

NMnita

[nikkin]

Is my the ship I am on in March, Noordam, open seating ? along w/ reg dining times...?

[wizard-of-roz]

Beepers; cell phones; pagers - boy, doesn;t the sound of them just lend to the true meaning of a truly relaxing cruise experience??????? Wait, it's just like "freestyle" dining!!!!! :eek:

If you ever wanted to see the staff, onboard the ships, look frustrated; overworked and just damn tired - that's what you'll see on the "anytime" dining venue for them!!!!!

And, Nita; "Hamptons"; "Lauderdale"; "Plantation" - are these code words or just another "segway" into another conversation? :confused:

You know what they say about people who can't stay on topic....it's the first sign of (oh! never mind!!!) :rolleyes:

[gizmo]

I wonder if the beepers vibrate ! ;)

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I wonder if the beepers vibrate ! ;)

:rolleyes: hmmmm.... maybe this could be a new amenity for the Signature of Excellence:D

But, to go back on topic. Maybe I have missed it must I have not really seen a lot of comments absolutely hating this nor have I heard of any really long waits yet other than when constructiondude had to ask and I think unfortunately they forgot about him. I have read many good comments. Could it just be possible that at least for the Oosterdam and Noordam that there is a good mix of passengers that some want this and some want fixed so it works well???

[Djptcp]

No, no, no, Holland America! Please do not switch to this type of dining. It is why we no longer sail on NCL after crusing with them four times. DH and I loved NCL the first three cruises, then they instituted Freestyle and we absolutely hated it! Long lines for dinner and if we wanted to have to make reservations for dinner every night in the various restaurants, we could have stayed home. We found it to be chaotic and the waitstaff was unfriendly because they didn't have to establish a rapport with their same diners every night. It just didn't work for us. We sailed on the Zuiderdam in December and still enjoyed the regular seating arrangements just as much as always. So, please HAL, no "freestyle" dining!!

HAL - 2004, 2006
Carnival - 1995, 1998, 2006, 2006
NCL - 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003
Royal Caribbean - 2002

[kryos]

I have read many good comments. Could it just be possible that at least for the Oosterdam and Noordam that there is a good mix of passengers that some want this and some want fixed so it works well???
Oh, I am sure you hit the nail right on the head. On the Vista class ships ... with their large percentage of family and "younger" travelers, I have no doubt this type of dining program has received lots of "press" in the comment cards. I'm sure people have overwhelmingly made comments that they wish the dining were more flexible. Otherwise, why would HAL even be experimenting with changing the dining program?

As much as I dislike the concept of flexible or "freestyle" dining, even I can see where it would be beneficial to some. Let's say a seven-day port-intensive itinerary ... families traveling together ... perhaps feeling squeezed with the amount of time they have to get ready for dinner after a full day in port, a cranky baby who really should be put down for an hour's nap, a couple of teenagers squabbling over what little bathroom time is available to get ready for dinner. It would be nice for mom to be able to say "Time out. Baby goes down for an hour's nap and you two stop fighting and take as much time in the bathroom as you need. We'll just eat late."

I think this is the type of passenger for whom flexible dining is clearly advantageous. But for the traditional HAL cruiser ... doing longer itineraries with extra sea days where it's fun for them to dress up in their formal finery and meet up with their dining companions for yet another delicious meal, flexible dining would hold absolutely no appeal.

So, all I can hope is that HAL always offers traditional as an option as well ... or else restricts this flexible dining program strictly to the Vista class ships.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[fsalzer]

No, no, no, Holland America! Please do not switch to this type of dining.... So, please HAL, no "freestyle" dining!!
Your subject was "Dining As You Wish" and you seem to be equating that to "freestyle", which I believe is an NCL term which offers no fixed dining. HAL's As You Wish Dining offers both traditional fixed dining and open dining and is not the equivalent of "freestyle" as I know it. Passengers on ships with As You Wish Dining have a choice of type of dining.

Fred

[kryos]

Passengers on ships with As You Wish Dining have a choice of type of dining.

Only if they book early enough to get that choice. If they book later, traditional may very well be filled and "As You Wish" their only option. Also, if there is a large group on the sailing, they may all want to dine together at the same seating in traditional dining. That's gonna really drop the number of available slots in traditional drastically, forcing many into "As You Wish" ... whether they like it or not.

I think the "As you Wish" name refers to only the flexible dining portion of the program. It means a large window encompassing both first and second seating, and you come "as you wish" ... in other words, when it's convenient.

Personally, I wish HAL would leave the dining program alone. But, of course, I realize why they have to jiggle with it. If passengers are requesting more flexibility, HAL either has to respond to that demand or lose future business to other cruise lines that had the foresight to do so.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RuthC]

On the Vista class ships ... with their large percentage of family and "younger" travelers, ...
Where are you getting the idea that the Noordam---one of the two ships testing the dining waters---has a "large percentage of family and "younger" travelers"?

The Noordam is doing 10-and 11-day runs in the Caribbean season, and except for school vacation weeks does not seem to have more families than other cruises of that length. At least that's my experience.
I also thought the age-range on my January cruise was consistent with the other three I have taken in the last 10 months.

There may be more families and "youngers" on the 7-day Vista itineraries---not having sailed them I can't speak to that---but I have not found the Noordam demographic different than the other HAL ships I have sailed.

[RuthC]

On the Vista class ships ... with their large percentage of family and "younger" travelers, ...
Where are you getting the idea that the Noordam---one of the two ships testing the dining waters---has a "large percentage of family and "younger" travelers"?

The Noordam is doing 10-and 11-day runs in the Caribbean season, and except for school vacation weeks does not seem to have more families than other cruises of that length. At least that's my experience.
I also thought the age-range on my January cruise was consistent with the other three I have taken in the last 10 months.

There may be more families and "youngers" on the 7-day Vista itineraries---not having sailed them I can't speak to that---but I have not found the Noordam demographic different than the other HAL ships I have sailed.

[gizmo]

Only if they book early enough to get that choice. If they book later, traditional may very well be filled and "As You Wish" their only option. Also, if there is a large group on the sailing, they may all want to dine together at the same seating in traditional dining. That's gonna really drop the number of available slots in traditional drastically, forcing many into "As You Wish" ... whether they like it or not.

I think the "As you Wish" name refers to only the flexible dining portion of the program. It means a large window encompassing both first and second seating, and you come "as you wish" ... in other words, when it's convenient.

Personally, I wish HAL would leave the dining program alone. But, of course, I realize why they have to jiggle with it. If passengers are requesting more flexibility, HAL either has to respond to that demand or lose future business to other cruise lines that had the foresight to do so.

Blue skies ...

--rita
I really wonder how you come up with some of this stuff.

I am not aware of Hal loosing business to other cruise line. All my cruises have been booked solid and there with very few famlies with kids on board.

I agree that "As you Wish" only applies to those that do not want traditional. Look at Princess. The wait list for Tradional is a mile long ! What does that tell us ? More people want traditional.

I have been looking at a couple of cruises that are 9 months out. Guess what ? Everything is waitlisted except that 8:30 seating. This is more than 1 cruise I have been looking at. Anymore I don't know what early booking is !!!

[wizard-of-roz]

Rita, Rita, Rita.....My dear there is nothing insightful about "freakstyle" dining! :eek:

I need not say anymore!

You all know how I feel aout it......."Not gonna do it!" Never!

[fsalzer]

Only if they book early enough to get that choice. If they book later, traditional may very well be filled and "As You Wish" their only option. Also, if there is a large group on the sailing, they may all want to dine together at the same seating in traditional dining. That's gonna really drop the number of available slots in traditional drastically, forcing many into "As You Wish" ... whether they like it or not.

I think the "As you Wish" name refers to only the flexible dining portion of the program. It means a large window encompassing both first and second seating, and you come "as you wish" ... in other words, when it's convenient.

I agree...book early to get what you want. However, I've recently seen a few posts (not sure which forums) that indicate booking early, surprisingly, doesn't always get one a confirmed dining time.

With all traditional fixed dining, one won't necessarily get the seating that one wants due to an imbalance of available seating and requests. For those that feel dining time is important, then open dining provides an option for those that didn't get the requested fixed dining time.

Many confuse HAL's As You Wish Dining and Princess' Personal Choice Dining with open dining/open-seating dining. As You Wish Dining and Personal Choice Dining encompass both traditional fixed dining and open-seating (Princess' Anytime Dining) dining.

James Deering's letter to Oosterdam's 1/6/07 passengers says in part, "As You Wish Dining offers two distinct dining options. The upper level dining room on Deck 3 features our traditional fixed dining schedule...The lower level dining room on Deck 2 features open dining."

http://www.princess.com/answer/dining.html

"Personal Choice Dining
...
Welcome to an incredible dining experience that gives you the freedom to choose where, when, and with whom you wish to dine. Princess is the only cruise line to offer a choice of Traditional Dining — the classic cruise experience — or flexible, Anytime Dining."

Fred

[newmexicoNita]

I really wonder how you come up with some of this stuff.

I am not aware of Hal loosing business to other cruise line. All my cruises have been booked solid and there with very few famlies with kids on board.

I agree that "As you Wish" only applies to those that do not want traditional. Look at Princess. The wait list for Tradional is a mile long ! What does that tell us ? More people want traditional.

I have been looking at a couple of cruises that are 9 months out. Guess what ? Everything is waitlisted except that 8:30 seating. This is more than 1 cruise I have been looking at. Anymore I don't know what early booking is !!!
Rita,

One of the reasons for the long wait list on Princess is the number of dining rooms that are designated tradtional versus "personal choice" Again, this is not the only reason but part of it. I don't believe HAL is loosing business because of dining choices: I do think "as you wish" dining is being added because of requests from the comment cards. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

Nita: I humbly bow to you....the guru of travel....but, if one has a horrid experience....allow them the space to express that...exaggeration holds no boudaries here......

We had an horrific (the only word I could think of) experience on NCL and we will NEVER travel on them again.

To think that the dining experience can keep one away from a cruiseline....how simplistic is that?????

Oh! I know that the NCL cheerleaders love to hear that their beloved NCL will be wide open for them....but, I have never seen people treated so much like cattle in all my life......

I would love to see a commercial using cattle/sheep, etc....to explain what freestyle/anytime/personal choice truly is........:eek:
expressing is one thing, bashing is quite another. Again I remember your being on the NCL board, I don't remember which ship or what happened; not that it is important as we are talking about HAL and "as you wish" dining, not horrible cruises. As you wish dining is very different than FReestyle cruising: better or worse, I don't know but it is very different.NMNIta

[wizard-of-roz]

Nita: I hope you're right about the difference between "freestyle" and what we will experience on HAL....not that we will......we will be in traditional dining. Just as I like it, when cruising....

And, yes I was on the NCL boards. We were on the NCL Star in November. A beautiful ship with a remarkable crew (one of the best I've experienced).

In defense of myself and others....I was not "bashing", I merely was telling the truth, as I saw it.

The dinner lines, in the main restaurant were deplorable (around the corner, clogging the hallways/walkways/elevators/stairs and even leading to another restaurant!) I've explained all of this, in detail, on this thread. I won't bore you or others with repeating the information.

I simply have made the choice not to use any form of personal choice dining, on a cruise! Traditional dining and all the "stuff" that goes with it is one of the "draws" for cruising, for us! ;)

[kryos]

I am not aware of Hal loosing business to other cruise line. All my cruises have been booked solid and there with very few famlies with kids on board.

Any business that does not experiment in response to guests' (customers, clients, etc.) feedback will die. You'd better believe that if customer comment cards are asking for some sort of flexible dining arrangements, that HAL will try to deliver them. And, yes, if they don't ... if they hold firm to traditional dining despite while their customers want ... yes, they sure as heck will lose business to other cruise lines ... if not now, then certainly in the future. Look at Cunard. They hold fast to a certain tradition and because of that they certainly aren't expanding their fleet very much are they? They may have enough passengers to fill two ships ... maybe even three temporarily when the Queen Victoria launches, but they certainly can't keep a fleet the size of HAL's fleet sailing, can they? That's because they are too market-focused with not enough people in that market to support a larger fleet of ships.

HAL has a huge fleet. In order to remain profitable they have to be all things to as many people as possible. As such, they will go more casual with dining and we can only hope that they maintain the traditional option for those of us that prefer that.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Where are you getting the idea that the Noordam---one of the two ships testing the dining waters---has a "large percentage of family and "younger" travelers"?

Younger in relation to some of the cruises we've been on ... the longer ones with an average passenger age well into the 70s.

In my meager experience, the shorter the itinerary the younger the passenger age demographic. Okay, maybe not always families traveling with kids, but certainly families traveling together. And, after all ... isn't the Noordam doing basically the same seven-day itinerary in the Caribbean as the ships sailing out of Fort Lauderdale? It just takes the extra four days to get to and from the Caribbean. The sailing and the sailing demographic should be pretty much the same, shouldn't they?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Jim Gallup]

If it helps - the average age (year around) of a passenger on the 4 Vista Ships is 46. Bear in mind that the higher number of children who travel on those ships pulls the numbers down a bit.
The average age (year around) of passengers on the other 9 HAL ships is just over 60.

[Jade13]

a marketing ploy/name used by NCL. We know people who only take NCL because "it is famous for its freestyle". You can get that at any restaurant that doesn't require reservations.

I agree this is fine for the small ships, adventure type cruise you take in the Galapagos and Great Barrier Reerf. With 50-90 passengers there is no problem. One of the reasons that I tried HAL was for the traditonal dinner seating.

It sounds like people must be putting this on the "suggestion" cards they ask you to fill out at the end of the cruise.

[Jade13]

ships. why is that? We were really young on the Veebdam last summer surprised there were little to no familys. While my daughter didn't go she is joining us on the Westerda and we told her there might not be any others her age. however, already several passengers with teengaers have posted on the roll call boards.

I'm still not sure if I will like the Westerdam as I like the smaller size of Veendam. We went for the itinerary. There is no oasis on the vista ships..

[caviargal]

The Vista ships were designed to attract families and lure new cruisers. I hope to have a chance one day to try the smaller ships which are my preference.

I will not choose flexible dining on a ship this size. It was a real pleasure on lines such as Regent whose ships max at about 700 passengers. But that excellent experience cannot be compared to Freestyle on NCL. I really did not enjoy it all and not because of lines (on my cruises that was only for early diners and I dine late). I felt it changed the entire dining experience to a much more casual event, food quality and presentation included.

I do not think Freestyle is a "marketing ploy". It was a unique concept when NCL introduced it and I believe salvaged the line to a large extent. The fans of Freestyle enjoy the casual, non traditional atmosphere. I find it mall like including the food court and I am not a mall person nor a casual dining person at home or on vacation.

IMO, it is a sad fact that the competition is so intense most lines are succumbing to lowered standards for dress codes and behavior and choosing to adopt these casual standards for dining times as well. Soon only the smokestacks will differentiate the lines and it will be one homogenized experience. :(

[kryos]

If it helps - the average age (year around) of a passenger on the 4 Vista Ships is 46. Bear in mind that the higher number of children who travel on those ships pulls the numbers down a bit.
The average age (year around) of passengers on the other 9 HAL ships is just over 60.
And on some of HAL's longer itineraries is well into the 70s and even 80s. And, HAL ... unlike many other cruise lines ... does A LOT of longer sailings. I only wish it was possible to get some of their demographical data. I'd be willing to bet the average age on a good percentage of HAL's sailings is much, much higher than 60. And, it is those folks who are used to the traditions of cruising ... many of them have been doing it for years ... and who won't be at all receptive to "As You Wish" dining. But, for that younger group ... the 46 age average ... they are not accustomed to eating with strangers, in many cases they don't like it, and I'd be willing to bet it has been them who have noted their displeasure on the comment cards.

And you bring up a good point about the children onboard those sailings bringing the average age down. A lot of young families are busy families. They have two wage earner parents, and the kids are involved in lots of activities. They don't spend nearly as much "quality" time together as a family that they would like. So, when they go on vacation ... such as a cruise with HAL ... that time is designated to be an opportunity for the family to "reconnect" ... for them to do new and exciting things together ... engage in meaningful conversation and such as a family. It is this type of group that is not gonna be too crazy about traditional dining specifically because of the possibility of not being able to get a table exclusively for their group. They don't want others joining them. They want to enjoy sit down dinners, amid a bit of luxury, without the invasion of strangers. I can understand this.

So that is why I say that sailing a Vista ship and sailing another HAL ship is almost like sailing a different cruise line altogether. The environment on each can be very, very different ... especially if the itineraries are. And most of the Vista ships' itineraries are of the shorter variety ... seven, ten and eleven days. Other ships in the fleet can have sailings that go on for much longer than that, thus eliminating the younger cruiser who has children or a job that is not flexible enough to allow them to be away for that long.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Odd Ball]

The Vista ships were designed to attract families and lure new cruisers.

Can you please explain exactly what designs on the Vista ships attract families ?


IMO, it is a sad fact that the competition is so intense most lines are succumbing to lowered standards for dress codes and behavior and choosing to adopt these casual standards for dining times as well. Soon only the smokestacks will differentiate the lines and it will be one homogenized experience. :(

When cruise lines attempt to copy each other, this is exactly what happens.

[kryos]

ships. why is that? We were really young on the Veebdam last summer surprised there were little to no familys. While my daughter didn't go she is joining us on the Westerda and we told her there might not be any others her age. however, already several passengers with teengaers have posted on the roll call boards.

Simple. The Vistas tend to do the more "family friendly" itineraries ... Caribbean, Alaska, etc. They also tend to do the shorter itineraries which make them the ideal destination for families with kids. Let's face it, even if you choose to sail outside of the normal school vacation period, if you're doing a seven-day itinerary, it is relatively easy to pull the kids out of school for a week and the odds are that others aboard the sailing will have done the same. But try pulling the kids out of school for an 18 or 24 day sailing, and you'll encounter a lot of resistence from the school administrators, even if you tout the educational benefits of the trip and agree to visit certain sites of historical interest. Then, of course, there is the added financial burden of bringing kids on a longer itinerary. Their fare, even in their parents' cabin, is not that great a discount ... they still pay 50% generally. And, that's another reason you will rarely find a lot of kids on the longer sailings.

I've been using this hypothetical for several years now, and since stupidly putting myself on the Zuiderdam the last week of summer in 2004 ... amid about 800 kids ... I have always selected sailings specifically to avoid kids. So, far it has worked marvelously. I've rarely had more than a handful of kids, if that, on any sailing I've done. But if I wanted kids ... such as if I had kids of my own and wanted to make sure they had someone to hang out with on the ship ... I'd choose a Vista hands down ... sailing the Caribbean or Alaska ... just about anytime of the year.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

When cruise lines attempt to copy each other, this is exactly what happens.
When a cruise line wants to have 13 or 14 ships in its fleet, then it has no choice but to "follow the leader." If another cruise line is doing very well by offering flexible dining, the cruise line will look into offering their own version of flexible dining, only better, in an effort to attract some of that other line's customers.

However, when you see cruise lines that only have a handful of ships in their fleets, they will not be subjected to the pressure of trying to be all things to all people. They will clearly carve out their own niche and then stick with it ... often filling their ships quite nicely with that segment of the market to whom their niche appeals. Regent and Cunard are good examples of this. I doubt you will ever see their standards come down. Resort casual means "elegant" casual. Formal means formal. Period. And, they don't have to lower their standards in the interest of attracting more cruisers. Their ships are sailing full every week just the way they are. HAL's problem is that they wanted to be a large fleet cruise line. So now they have to figure out ways to keep their ships full every week ... their bigger and bigger ships. And that's why you can bet your bippee that in the years to come, we're gonna see the lowering of many standards ... from dining to dress codes. It's just a fact of life.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Odd Ball]

When a cruise line wants to have 13 or 14 ships in its fleet, then it has no choice but to "follow the leader." If another cruise line is doing very well by offering flexible dining, the cruise line will look into offering their own version of flexible dining, only better, in an effort to attract some of that other line's customers.


--rita

And exactly how is Hal going to do it better ? :confused:

[AirGorilla]

staying in Plantation will always save you money; class per class. this doesn't mean a 4* hotel in Plantation will be less than a 2* in Lauderdale, but the further away you get from the water the less you will pay and there are many nice choices in the Plantation area. As for us, we usually do stay at Hamptons Inns because they are one of the few mid range hotels that are uniform and almost always satisfactory.

NMnita

Agree -- we like 'em, also!!

[AirGorilla]

IMO, it is a sad fact that the competition is so intense most lines are succumbing to lowered standards for dress codes and behavior and choosing to adopt these casual standards for dining times as well. Soon only the smokestacks will differentiate the lines and it will be one homogenized experience. :(

Very well said. I think that your observation is probably targeted to the mass market lines, of which HAL is certainly one of the fastest to do the "dumbing down" of its atmosphere, traditions and policies. Interestingly, Celebrity has resisted the dumbing down routing more than most other large cruise lines.

I do believe that lines such as Crystal, Regent, Windstar, Seabourn, etc., are maintaining their respective identities and not trying to be all things to all people.

[newmexicoNita]

Very well said. I think that your observation is probably targeted to the mass market lines, of which HAL is certainly one of the fastest to do the "dumbing down" of its atmosphere, traditions and policies. Interestingly, Celebrity has resisted the dumbing down routing more than most other large cruise lines.

I do believe that lines such as Crystal, Regent, Windstar, Seabourn, etc., are maintaining their respective identities and not trying to be all things to all people.I too wish they would all adopt the policies of the upscale lines. Of course many can't afford Crystal, etc but would love to stick with dress codes, traditional dining, afternoon tea, whatever is your thing. Maybe the flex dining (freestyle) your thing; that's ok also. Why do we all have to be cabon copies of each other? Nothing to do with what I can or can not afford: I love NCL because of the energy level and the freestyle. Does that make me a second class citizen? What about the laborer, who has saved for 5 years to take his wife on a special vacation and wants to experience the tradtions of cruising like formal dinners, assigned seating, all the things he had heard about? Shouldn't he be able to find a mass marketed line out there that can offer him what he thought cruising was all about? Ok, off my bandwagon for tonight. Think it's time for O'Reilly or something like that? NMNita

[caviargal]

Very well said. I think that your observation is probably targeted to the mass market lines, of which HAL is certainly one of the fastest to do the "dumbing down" of its atmosphere, traditions and policies. Interestingly, Celebrity has resisted the dumbing down routing more than most other large cruise lines.

I do believe that lines such as Crystal, Regent, Windstar, Seabourn, etc., are maintaining their respective identities and not trying to be all things to all people.

My last two X cruises were quite dumbed down in many respects, dress codes included. It was disappointing. The new smaller ships will have ccc dress codes and open dining, which IMO works on a smaller ship very well.

The luxury lines are doing a good job so far. I wish I could afford them:) on a regular basis.

[kryos]

And exactly how is Hal going to do it better ? :confused:
Maybe offer a more varied menu ... perhaps better presentation ... perhaps better quality of food. Lots of ways they can "one up" the competition. It's just up to their marketing gurus to figure out the best one.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AirGorilla]

My last two X cruises were quite dumbed down in many respects, dress codes included. It was disappointing. The new smaller ships will have ccc dress codes and open dining, which IMO works on a smaller ship very well.

The luxury lines are doing a good job so far. I wish I could afford them:) on a regular basis.

Thanks for the update on Celebrity. I didn't realize that they had changed their dress code. What exactly have they done with their dress code?

Thanks!

[caviargal]

Thanks for the update on Celebrity. I didn't realize that they had changed their dress code. What exactly have they done with their dress code?

Thanks!

They stopped enforcing it, apparently. On my last two cruises, there were sweats, shorts, jeans and ball caps in the dining room at dinner.

[GeriatricNurse]

They stopped enforcing it, apparently. On my last two cruises, there were sweats, shorts, jeans and ball caps in the dining room at dinner.


How sad! Based on this post, I guess that the first (and last) cruise that DW & I took with X on Millennium last April will remain a fond remembrance as everyone in the DR was dressed appropriately during that (Eastern Caribbean) cruise!

[barriedavis]

I guess those who like traditional dining have never been put on a table with obnoxious, rude, belligerant gamblers and drinkers who have no conversation except to talk about their gambling and drinking. I stopped sailing Celebrity because they had no dining options to relieve me of those who are unbdarable and criticise the food, staff and everything else. Anytime dining is great.

[sab490]

I guess those who like traditional dining have never been put on a table with obnoxious, rude, belligerant gamblers and drinkers who have no conversation except to talk about their gambling and drinking. I stopped sailing Celebrity because they had no dining options to relieve me of those who are unbdarable and criticise the food, staff and everything else. Anytime dining is great.

Yes, we have. And we simply asked to have our table changed. Problem solved. With anytime dining you run that risk at every meal.

[caviargal]

Yes, we have. And we simply asked to have our table changed. Problem solved. With anytime dining you run that risk at every meal.

I agree. I have no problem at all asking for a table change and on one cruise did so twice in the same evening. My request was met graciously and I ended up with a wonderful group of people.

When I am travelling with my DH only, we get a table for 2.

[AirGorilla]

They stopped enforcing it, apparently. On my last two cruises, there were sweats, shorts, jeans and ball caps in the dining room at dinner.

Thanks again. So they haven't changed the code -- they just don't enforce it so well. That is truly a shame. On our two cruises on X, the pax observed the code, and looked good. Well, darn!!

[John & Kay W]

Yes, we have. And we simply asked to have our table changed. Problem solved. With anytime dining you run that risk at every meal.

No you don't. You simply wait until the Matre 'D has a table that accomodates the size party you have. I've never waited more than 15 minutes.

[newmexicoNita]

Yes, we have. And we simply asked to have our table changed. Problem solved. With anytime dining you run that risk at every meal.
the chances of that happening are rare at best plus with open type of dining you get to meet so many more people. Of course you can ask to have your table changed but then you have to explain why you moved when you run into your old table mates. This has happened to us twice. Fortunitely both cases we changed our time of eating so we had good excuses. Another problem arises when you are at a table of, say, 8 and 4 you are uncomfortable with. this happened to clients not long ago. NMnita

[RuthC]

Of course you can ask to have your table changed but then you have to explain why you moved when you run into your old table mates.
Don't be silly---you don't owe your former tablemates an explanation. All you owe them is a cordial greeting when meeting again.
Dining is too important a part of a cruise to be unhappy at your table. If changing tables is what it takes there should be no hesitation.

[newmexicoNita]

Don't be silly---you don't owe your former tablemates an explanation. All you owe them is a cordial greeting when meeting again.
Dining is too important a part of a cruise to be unhappy at your table. If changing tables is what it takes there should be no hesitation. For us it wasn't that easy: we were asked why we moved? One case was very sensitive as the table mates were of a different ethnic background: this had nothing to do with our moving but was very sad. NMnita

[kryos]

I guess those who like traditional dining have never been put on a table with obnoxious, rude, belligerant gamblers and drinkers who have no conversation except to talk about their gambling and drinking. I stopped sailing Celebrity because they had no dining options to relieve me of those who are unbdarable and criticise the food, staff and everything else. Anytime dining is great.
What's the problem? Just ask to be moved. I've done that ... and it didn't even have to do with rude or obnoxious people, but rather just a lack of compatibility. After two nights, I couldn't imagine dining for 30 nights with these folks. Not that they were bad or unfriendly at all. It was just that I didn't feel like I fit in with them. The matri 'd had no problem just switching me to another table. I explained the situation to my formal tablemates so that there wouldn't be any hard feelings, and sat at a table with a couple of fellow cruise critics for the rest of the cruise.

Problem solved and dinner was a joy to look forward to each day.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

They stopped enforcing it, apparently. On my last two cruises, there were sweats, shorts, jeans and ball caps in the dining room at dinner.
Now that's funny. Was this on a Vista ship, seven-day sailing? I've yet to see the dress code slip that much on any HAL cruise I've been on. Oh, maybe a few people may have nice jeans on ... but I've never seen sloppy tee-shirts, shorts or ball caps in any HAL dining room. In the Lido maybe, but not in the dining room.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[GeriatricNurse]

Now that's funny. Was this on a Vista ship, seven-day sailing? I've yet to see the dress code slip that much on any HAL cruise I've been on. Oh, maybe a few people may have nice jeans on ... but I've never seen sloppy tee-shirts, shorts or ball caps in any HAL dining room. In the Lido maybe, but not in the dining room.

Blue skies ...

--rita


Rita, I believe that this was in reference to X. See Post #225 on this thread.

[Cruisin Kay D]

Anyone know if this "As you Wish" is available on Volendam in the fall?

[J3F]

Here's the thing with free flex dining. Just run the numbers.... if a ship has 2600 passengers, it has two seatings of 1300 passnegers. That means it has 1300 chairs in the dining room(s).

If they try to get loose with the open meal times, everyone tends to come at around 7-7:30 give or take, instead of at 6 or at 8:30. Since it takes about 90 minutes to eat and reset the table for the next passengers, there aren't enought chairs. So, some people end up eating at 9:30. It's not so good.

Unless, you have a ship that was built for this such as the newer NCL ships, which they must have around 3600 chairs for the 2600 passengers in all the restaurants combined.

In other words, in our experience, flex dining works on ships built for it. On the ships not built for it, we had to either wait, sometimes for 20 minutes, or longer, or room service or lido buffet.

[caviargal]

Now that's funny. Was this on a Vista ship, seven-day sailing? I've yet to see the dress code slip that much on any HAL cruise I've been on. Oh, maybe a few people may have nice jeans on ... but I've never seen sloppy tee-shirts, shorts or ball caps in any HAL dining room. In the Lido maybe, but not in the dining room.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Yes, the post was about X, not HAL. My most recent HAL cruise was on ZUI and the dress code was nicely adhered to and also enforced. I am disappointed with the new HAL dress code and the allowance of jeans in the dining room so it will be interesting to see how the OS is in April.

[wizard-of-roz]

Aside from the "sloppy" lines on NCL.....the people in the lines were all dressed very nicely for dinner, in the main dining room.

I really look forward to the surprise of "who will our table mates be?"

On our second cruise with RCCL....my DH and I had gone to dinner (traditional dining)....we were seated with a Major League football team....a table for 10. I was the only woman (paradise for a single woman)......it was so much fun....until I could see the guys were really trying to be gentemen and were watching their "P's" and "Q's", language and mannners.......I asked to be moved (just for the sake of these lovely men...so they could have more fun) and got placed at a table for 8, some of whom we have remained friends with and who helped to make our cruise such a success! :p

This would not have been possible if it were not for traditional dining!

[J3F]

An important variale in the free/flex dining is that the specialty restaurants on most lines now charge somthing extra. 10 or 20$ per person. These restaurants take reservations. Sort of like the oooolllld days of 1st and 2nd class cruising. IF you pay more, you get better service, no lines, and better menu. I think it's ok. It's a choice. We usually find the main dining room to be enjoyable and enjoy meeting people, but have paid the $15 to avoid the wait a couple times.

It is risky to use traditional dining. We have made some friends that we are in touch with many years later. We have also had some less than enjoyable table mates. It's a lottery of sorts. But at least if you lose, and don't like your table mates, you can opt for alternative dining. And it's only a week anyway.