How Many Return and Cruise Again?

[sail7seas]

I've been thinking about the dining experiments which have been on-going on Oosterdam and Noordam.

If these searches for alternative systems for feeding us all dinner are triggered by requests by new cruisers in general (not just new to HAL) and are seeking to satisfy their requests for flexibility in scheduling/dining times, I wonder if anyone has analyzed if it has made any positive difference in HAL's numbers??

If they are making changes that are not pleasing so many of us traditionalists, I'm hoping they are at the very least reaping a big benefit. If they juggle with the system that has worked for so long (okay.....the four seatings vs. two is relatively new but not that drastic a change), are enough of the new cruisers so happy about being able to come to the dining room when they want that they are booking tons of future cruises?

Or, are they jumping from cruise line to cruise and it didn't matter a whit to them that HAL made drastic changes to attract and (presumably) keep them.

Maybe they decided after just one cruise they don't wish to cruise again and we traditionalist get to inherit changes made on their behalf that they will never partake of again

What do you think about this?

[kryos]

You make an excellent point, Sail. I have a feeling that a lot of the "new age" cruisers who love the more progressive dining formats are ones who won't develop any particular loyalty to any one line. It could very well be that they do a HAL cruise, rave about their "As You Wish" Dining experience, and then don't sail for another two years, at which time they book the line that gives them the best price at the time. Others take one cruise and then say "that's enough" and go back to land vacations. Then we, the HAL loyalists, are stuck with the changes these new cruisers have dumped on us.

However, on the flip side of the coin ... when those people leave HAL, lots of others take their place. Many people take just one or two cruises over a lifetime ... but that number of new cruisers can be in the millions. Even if they never sail a second time, the cruise industry makes a bundle on these new cruisers. So, I guess HAL figures that even if most of those people who raved about alternative dining formats never sail a HAL ship again, there will be plenty of others ... in the same general age range ... who will and these cruisers will love it too.

Bottom line ... as long as there are more people onboard ship who prefer an alternative dining concept, such as "As You Wish," HAL will offer it. Those people don't have to sail HAL again and again. As long as others like them come onboard, HAL will still reap benefits. After all, you can impute that if a certain type of passenger loves something, others fitting his same basic demographic profile will love it too. We traditionalists may soon (if we are not already) be in the minority and thus our wishes won't mean that much to HAL. Oh, they'll offer a choice between traditional dining and "As You Wish" ... at least for now ... but as the future bears in upon us ... and the traditionalists become smaller and smaller in number ... coupled with the ships getting bigger and bigger to support more "freestyle" type dining formats, HAL will go 100% flexible dining.

Of course, hopefully by the time this happens, you and I both won't be sailing any longer. I know that once the smaller ships are all mothballed, and the only choices available out there become 5000-passenger megaships, I'll be doing other things on my vacations. Sadly, I won't be spending them on the sea when that time comes. I can be in big crowds right here at home ... and it doesn't cost me a dime.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Sale Away]

I would guess the response cards have the typical "have you cruised with HAL before" and "how many cruises have you ever taken" type questions on there so the people reviewing the results can better categorize the answers.

I'm personally with the traditionalists as I prefer a set time for dinner. If I'm that rushed on a particular day, I'd rather order in to eat in the cabin on my verandah anyways. :D

[SWeaster]

Carnival Corporation owns a dozen cruise lines and somewhere around eighty ships. The company should be able to provide each with a distinct personality that appeals to different segments of the cruising public. At present they have lines with reputations for extreme partying, more refined lines and some that fall between those extremes.

I'm an engineer so I rarely leave much to chance. We booked our first cruise on HAL only after extensive research. HAL's passenger demographics, refined style and excellent service appealed to us. With just two cruises under our belts, one cancelled due to a medical emergency and another pending we are far from being long time cruisers. Although we have yet to be disappointed, we don't have nearly as much attachment to Holland America as some other people do. If HAL morphs into something that no longer appeals to us we can always jump ship to another Carnival company or a competitor.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree with SWeaster ... 100% if not more:) . And this is why all this tweaking makes no sense to me. They really end up competing with themselves. Why not let each line offer its own feel and not mess with it? There will always be peope out there looking for traditional, not just those of us who have cruised that way before.

But getting back to Sail's point, if I understand it correctly, we have been told by a CC member we've all come to know that it's all about the bottom line and not about individual cruisers no matter how many days they have on HAL. We're told HAL doesn't care about loyalty and the real money comes from ADDING passengers from the vast majority of people who have NEVER cruised.

Those are the people they're trying to attract ... masses and masses of people. According to this poster who we know to be in a position to know, whether or not you or I return to sail HAL is really not the issue. It's all about the numbers.

So if they can get more people to cruise, particularly those who never have, then they have been successful with their tweaking. All they want to do is fill their ships.

And even though I fought this poster tooth and nail, I'm now inclined to believe that he is correct. None of this is fun to hear and none of us wants to feel like just another number, but the fact is that's what cruising has become.

I still believe that it is without a doubt the absolute best experience out there for what we pay. Neither HAL nor anyone else owes me more than that. As long as there are choices to give me want I want, I'll be happy.

[sail7seas]

Bottom line ... as long as there are more people onboard ship who prefer an alternative dining concept, such as "As You Wish," HAL will offer it.

I don't have any way of knowing if there are more who prefer "As You Wish". Do you have some inside info that says that is so? I seem to feel there are more traditionalists because they are making noises about making the lower level traditional dining seeing as it offers more seating than the upper level.

[sail7seas]

Bottom line ... as long as there are more people onboard ship who prefer an alternative dining concept, such as "As You Wish," HAL will offer it.

I don't have any way of knowing if there are more who prefer "As You Wish". Do you have some inside info that says that is so? I seem to feel there are more traditionalists because they are making noises about making the lower level traditional dining seeing as it offers more seating than the upper level.

[ekerr19]

I don't have any way of knowing if there are more who prefer "As You Wish". Do you have some inside info that says that is so? I seem to feel there are more traditionalists because they are making noises about making the lower level traditional dining seeing as it offers more seating than the upper level.

Sail -

I agree. There may be some who like the idea, but the majority "preferring" it... I just don't see it...

Most of HAL's demographic seem to prefer to cruise HAL for tradition and continuity - they are not necessarily looking for "new & innovative"...

My parents always preferred HAL because they knew what they were going to get and LIKED it - the traditional product was always very important to my Dad.

...just my thoughts. :)

[hammybee]

CCL operates on the economies of scale. They keep building and growing the business and have a tremendous need to fill cabins.

30,000 pax are telling CCL that they prefer to dine when and with whom they want. There is no denying that NCL is a huge player in this business and regadless of how any of us feel they keep gaining market share.

I really do believe that most pax new to cruising do not care for the assigned time, table and tablemate thing. That we do not hear from more of them says more about this board than it does about the Comment Cards.

The alternative to this would be to operate HAL as Saga does its two old and beloved ships, Ruby and Rose. Their size and longer intineraries enable them to operate very traditional cruises perhaps more so than is reasonably feasible for HAL and their growing inventory of ships. It's the quest for new business that enables HAL to launch the Noordam and more. Otherwise we all might meet eachother on the old Noordam and bond over our common plumbing issues during our evening meal.

[tssace]

"Most of HAL's demographic seem to prefer to cruise HAL for tradition and continuity - they are not necessarily looking for "new & innovative"... "

We cruise with HAL because we've enjoyed traditional higher quality cruising with them in the past. We are at the younger end of the spectrum for HAL's passengers - free-style cruising does not cut it for us unless we are on a barefoot-sailing-ship type of cruise. I guess if HAL continues with this "as you wish" dining and it affects our experience with tradition dining we'll be searching for another cruiseline. After all, we can spend our $$ 'as we wish'!!!

[lougee1043]

traditional dining is still available -=-- it was on our recent odam cruise while alternate dining was being tested----i am a traditional dining person and as long a traditional dining is available in one of the dining rooms i really dont care what is being tested or implemented or adjusted in the other one

[HeatherInFlorida]

Where does this information come from that new cruisers don't want traditional dining? Is this information from some specific reliable source? Because I think there are a heck of a lot of new cruisers right here on this board who aren't thrilled with this new concept.

They continue to return from this "experiment" with horror tales. As I said on another thread, obviously those behind this thinking are going to insist it's supported, but that doesn't mean that it is.

Anyone who thinks that this is truly "as you wish" dining is seriously misguided. I've been reading about this on here for awhile now and from what everyone says it doesn't end up being AS YOU WISH at all! You must make a reservation and even if you do, you'd better make it early or book a pretty ritzy cabin because otherwise you will not get what you want and you'll very likely be standing in line.

That's the basis of people's complaints. I'm sure there are many people who would be thrilled if it was seriously a "walk in any time and eat" plan. But it's just not!!! That's the point. It's not "as you wish" at all so I have no idea why they're calling it that.

[cruznon]

I think many of us who prefer traditional dining have taken the continuation of HAL traditional dining as a "given" and therefore we haven't commented on our surveys how much we value and enjoy tradtional dining.
The newbies to cruising (or who haven't experienced HAL or are not traditionalists) probably do note that the set dining times are inconvenient to their lifestyle and that opening dining would be preferable. (Maybe NCL commericials or friends have had an influence or created expectations.)
I believe we are learning that we must make sure to include in our comments how much we appreciate traditional dining and that this is a factor (traditional dining) does influence our cruising choices.
IMHO, if HAL continues to try to be "all things to all people" they loose the special qualities of the cruise line. Cruise lines should not be homogenized--there need to be differences to fit the different wants and needs of cruisers. Hopefully, HAL remains more of a traditional line with elegance, gracious hospitality, beautiful art, mountains of glorious fresh flowers, formal nights, etc.
I really like the fact that HAL's ships are not party ships or like one of the ships that has 800+ kids on board in a single sailing (I was actually on such a ship.) THat's why we come back. I think it would be foolish of any business to ignore repeat customers.

[jhannah]

... as long a traditional dining is available in one of the dining rooms ...Exactly. But this is the rub. Not everyone who wants traditional can get it. That's been proven on Princess and other lines. So unless the stars line up just right for you, you could be relegated to the "anytime" venue ... and if you're wanting to dine at a popular time you will likely end up with a pager!

[hunzabunz]

The anytime dining only seems to work if you get a table that will only have your party. Just off the Oosterdam in December and had this dining venue. I made sure that it was only me, my DH and Sister at a table for 4. The 2 tables on either side of us were for 10 each. At one time one of the tables only 1/2 showed at the start of dinner and the second group at the table showed up during the 1st groups soup and salad. Needless to say, our servers were so flustered trying to keep up with them that things got slow with just us 3.

I guess that's the biggest complaint. The servers are just non stop rushing that they can't visit with you anymore. That's the thing that we like best about Holland, the servers chatting it up with you.

Nan

[Tricia724]

I guess good old Abe Lincoln knew what he was talking about when he said you can "please all of the people some of the time....and some of the people all of the time....but you can't please all of the people all of the time." And Abe wasn't even a cruiser.

I agree with cruznon that those of us traditionalists should state on the comment card that we like the fixed seating dining, and I'm going to do that when I'm on Maasdam in a few weeks. By not stating our preferences, we are perhaps allowing the people screaming for flexible dining to get priority. It's like not voting on election day.

[hammybee]

I think many of us who prefer traditional dining have taken the continuation of HAL traditional dining as a "given" and therefore we haven't commented on our surveys how much we value and enjoy tradtional dining.
The newbies to cruising (or who haven't experienced HAL or are not traditionalists) probably do note that the set dining times are inconvenient to their lifestyle and that opening dining would be preferable. (Maybe NCL commericials or friends have had an influence or created expectations.)
I believe we are learning that we must make sure to include in our comments how much we appreciate traditional dining and that this is a factor (traditional dining) does influence our cruising choices.

I have said before, that I often feel like I have sailed the other HAL, a very different cruise experience than many on this board have with HAL. I am thinking this may be due to the fact that with one exception, my experiences on HAL have been during prime time spring break and summer vacation times, 7-12 day sails, when the demographics are quite different.

What I have heard loud and clear, for years, is that many people prefer flexibility of dining times, dependent upon the current and next days' shore excursions and their whims of the moment. Early seating is often too early and late is too late and most people would prefer something in between which is what creates problems, when they do occur, on other cruise lines. It's no different than a land based vacation where the restaurants are jammed at 7, so you better eat early or late or be prepared to wait.

The majority of these cruisers are under 50. They spend money, a lot of money because cruising is still a novelty. As the cruise progresses, they tire of the routine of traditional dining and often end up in the LIDO, leaving empty tables and abandoned tablemates. Their behaviors send a clear message to HAL. And I have no doubt that they make their preferences known on the comment cards.

[hammybee]

I guess good old Abe Lincoln knew what he was talking about when he said you can "please all of the people some of the time....and some of the people all of the time....but you can't please all of the people all of the time." And Abe wasn't even a cruiser.

I agree with cruznon that those of us traditionalists should state on the comment card that we like the fixed seating dining, and I'm going to do that when I'm on Maasdam in a few weeks. By not stating our preferences, we are perhaps allowing the people screaming for flexible dining to get priority. It's like not voting on election day.

I agree with both of you. Use your comment card to tell HAL what you like about HAL, instead of dwelling on what you did not like or enjoy. Do you want, for example, traditional dining and formal evenings to continue forever and ever? If so, forget about telling HAL you found the pop corn too salty. In other words, choose your battles and decide what is really important to you.

[hammybee]

walk in any time and eat[/B]" plan. But it's just not!!! That's the point. It's not "as you wish" at all so I have no idea why they're calling it that.[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

This is interesting Heather. From the very few that have returned from the dining experiement, having actually experienced it, I think it's running close to 50-50.

Those that strongly prefer traditional dining often focus on the negative posts. Those who strongly prefer more flexible timing, read it the other way and the very few, like me, who don't care one way or another, perceive there to be more balance between the two.

[caviargal]

All they want to do is fill their ships.

And even though I fought this poster tooth and nail, I'm now inclined to believe that he is correct. None of this is fun to hear and none of us wants to feel like just another number, but the fact is that's what cruising has become.

I still believe that it is without a doubt the absolute best experience out there for what we pay. Neither HAL nor anyone else owes me more than that. As long as there are choices to give me want I want, I'll be happy.

Filling ships is the bottom line and one could replace "HAL" with "Celebrity" and a few other lines and the same concepts apply.

Cruise line are changing and the differences between them are lessening. More dining options/times, relaxed dress codes, ala carte options from coffee to ice cream, cut backs in many aspects of the experience are all signs of the times.

I no longer find that cruising is a great value for me, nor is it the best overall experience for my taste. I personally do not care for the ever larger vessels being built which will attract a different type of cruiser. I don't like how casual and family oriented most lines have become.

Since those things are not going to change, I have no plans to cruise for pleasure in the foreseable future, unless I opt for a luxury line every few years when funds permit. Land based trips to the Caribbean and annual visits to Europe have far more appeal these days.

I took my first cruise in 1968 and feel instantly in love! What cruising is evolving into is everything I dislike about a vacation.

[Sage]

Caviargal, DH and I happen to agree with you. When you try to become "something for everyone", you become something else. We do not appreciate the "something else" HAL has become, and have moved on to a cruise line that is more traditional.

[gizmo]

Anyone who thinks that this is truly "as you wish" dining is seriously misguided. I've been reading about this on here for awhile now and from what everyone says it doesn't end up being AS YOU WISH at all! You must make a reservation and even if you do, you'd better make it early or book a pretty ritzy cabin because otherwise you will not get what you want and you'll very likely be standing in line.

That's the basis of people's complaints. I'm sure there are many people who would be thrilled if it was seriously a "walk in any time and eat" plan. But it's just not!!! That's the point. It's not "as you wish" at all so I have no idea why they're calling it that.

Agree 100% I have said the same thing many times. :)

The term "As You Wish" is nothing but a marketing tool to make people think they can eat anytime they want. Same goes for "Personal Choice" or whatever it is Princess is calling.

All this sounds good in the brochures, but it just isn't true.

[kryos]

Sail -

I agree. There may be some who like the idea, but the majority "preferring" it... I just don't see it...

Betcha the majority of those newer cruisers the cruise lines are trying to attract prefer it.

As long as HAL offers a choice, I can live with it. If I can't get traditional dining on a cruise, then I won't take that cruise ... at least not if I'm planning to travel solo on the boat. I will just tell me TA ... either I get confirmed for traditional dining or cancel my booking.

But come the day that HAL no longer offers a choice ... and I don't see that happening anytime soon ... then I too will jump ship. True, I am loyal to HAL ... simply because I've had most of my best experiences sailing HAL ships ... but if I had to put up with "freestyle" dining, then I would simply look for another alternative for my cruise dollars.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[fsalzer]

The term "As You Wish" is nothing but a marketing tool to make people think they can eat anytime they want. Same goes for "Personal Choice" or whatever it is Princess is calling.

All this sounds good in the brochures, but it just isn't true.

As You Wish Dining's open dining option (HAL), Personal Choice's Anytime Dining option (Princess) and Oceania's open dining have been "as we wish". We've never had a wait except one evening on Star Princess and that wait was less than 5 minutes. We usually commence dining "whenever we wish" between 6:00pm and 7:30pm.

Fred

[Krazy Kruizers]

I have thought the same thing. I keep hearing reports that passengers like this new thing and that new thing. We talked to a couple of people who were first time cruises and they just raved about all the new changes that HAL was making. But when I asked them if they would cruise on HAL again, their answer was "no". When I asked them why, they said that HAL's itineraries for longer cruises (10 days) were doing islands likeSt Kitts, Trinadad, Nevius which the other cruise lines are doing.

JMO - these people will write glowing reports about the dining times and etc., but move on to other lines and we traditionalists will be stuck with whatever these one-time-HAL cruises give top numbers on.

[ekerr19]

If I can't get traditional dining on a cruise, then I won't take that cruise ... at least not if I'm planning to travel solo on the boat. I will just tell me TA ... either I get confirmed for traditional dining or cancel my booking.



Well, a nice idea (in theory) - sure. We were confirmed for upper level, 8:00pm, as we always request. Then we get our docs, and guess what??? No such luck. Even with the number of days Sonny & I and our kids have on HAL, AND booking a Suite, we are still out of luck - the waitlist is a mile long.

How are we supposed to cancel NOW???

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Well, a nice idea (in theory) - sure. We were confirmed for upper level, 8:00pm, as we always request. Then we get our docs, and guess what??? No such luck. Even with the number of days Sonny & I and our kids have on HAL, AND booking a Suite, we are still out of luck - the waitlist is a mile long.

How are we supposed to cancel NOW???

Laura, being in an S Suite should NOT be placed on a waitlist of any kind. Unfortunately with what is happening with the Oosterdam is a rare occurance and would not be happening on any of the other ships. If they would go back to the Dine As You Wish you would be just fine, you would have Upper 8 PM Traditional Dining. Where it goes into a confusion is if they go back to the previous Test Dining which was Leisure Dining, then you have the open window. If they were temporarily dropping the Dine As You Wish to evaluate it then they should have just gone back to the Tradtional Dining found on all the other ships.

I agree with Rita and will add that I think far too many of the posters on this board are jumping to conclusions and Damming this whole thing before anything ever really happens. First off they have Never said they were dropping or considering dropping Traditional Dining. The Dine As You Wish was to offer both. Second, most all of you that are complaing are those that book your cruises many months in advance which will allow you to choose the dining you like. Secondly more than likely this new Dining concept will more than likely stay on the Vistas and the New Eurodam. The smaller ships will most likely not ever incurr the change but then I am just guessing here but again. All of this is just unknown even to HAL. For us to be proclaiming we will leave HAL when HAL does not even know what they are doing is just plain jumping to conclusion, getting everyone upset including the hundreds of people that read this board but do not post.

I agree I want Traditional Dining but had this happened before I took my first cruise we would have been thrilled with it and never known the difference. Also of the 8 people I know at work that like to cruise in polling them everyone of them chose the NON Traditional as what they would want. I believe that just maybe HAL has people up at the top that might be able to put this together to make all their cruisers happy. I also think that the reason they have even been experimenting with this is because the comment cards requesting this have far out weighed those who want traditional.

Again I want traditional but I also book my cruises a year in advance and feel I will always get the Dining I want so to speak "Dine As I Wish" At this point it is not worth getting upset over, nor complaining granted it gives for some action here on the CC board but to go as far as to declare "I will leave HAL forever to go to X" is just plain....oh well you know what I mean. Let's just sit back and see what happens. If you do not have an Oosterdam or Noordam cruise booked this year I am sure you have nothing to worry about.

[DFD1]

IMO HAL will do what every other large corporation does to survive. It will take polls, do tests and experiments and everything else it can do to find what attracts new business.

Many indications are that younger, well to do cruisers want a more relaxed, less structured cruise where they can do what they want when they want...including dining.

If this is, in fact, the case you can bet that HAL will try its best to provide that kind of cruise....at first probably on the shorter cruises, leaving the longer cruises with the more traditional cruise passengers with a more traditonal structure...for the time being.

The more experienced traditional cruise passengers will continue to resist change (including me), but probably to no avail. Our resistance may, at best, slow some of the changes.

IMO.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Caviargal, I agree you can replace any cruise line's name with HAL and the same applies. But as far as Celebrity goes, so far they haven't rolled over for "freestyle", "as you wish" or "personal choice".

This is interesting Heather. From the very few that have returned from the dining experiement, having actually experienced it, I think it's running close to 50-50.

Those that strongly prefer traditional dining often focus on the negative posts. Those who strongly prefer more flexible timing, read it the other way and the very few, like me, who don't care one way or another, perceive there to be more balance between the two.

I would agree, Hammybee, except that I don't focus as you suggest I do. I really try to get a real feel about the reaction of everyone since I truly want to know how people like it. Don't forget ... I've never experienced it so obviously I'm looking for information.

While I don't pretend to read every post ever written on the subject, it's been my personal view that MOST people who have written about it have spoken negatively for a number of reasons. I have seen few, if any (until the above post), people saying they had no problem at all with it.

Well, a nice idea (in theory) - sure. We were confirmed for upper level, 8:00pm, as we always request. Then we get our docs, and guess what??? No such luck. Even with the number of days Sonny & I and our kids have on HAL, AND booking a Suite, we are still out of luck - the waitlist is a mile long.

How are we supposed to cancel NOW???

And this is MOST interesting because we have to wonder why there is such a waitlist for traditional dining when we're being told everyone wants "as you wish".

Maybe I'm too simpleminded, but to me it says someone in Seattle is just being stubborn about their silly idea. It definitely needs more tweaking. I worked in Corporate HQs long enough to have seen this happen many times. I was fired from IBM (a company that in those days never fired anyone) for suggesting at a high level corporate meeting that a VP's "brilliant idea" was not so brilliant after all and in fact was a disaster. Shortly after my demise, they curtailed the implementation of the hotshot's idea.

So as I say, the proof will be in the proverbial pudding. We'll see the eventual outcome down the road, but in the meantime an awful lot of people will not be happy.

[ekerr19]

First off they have Never said they were dropping or considering dropping Traditional Dining. The Dine As You Wish was to offer both. Second, most all of you that are complaing are those that book your cruises many months in advance which will allow you to choose the dining you like.

Lisa - First off, it doesn't matter to me that they are still going to offer traditional dining if I can't get it, or have to jump through a bunch of hoops to have dining the way I want.

Also, to clarify, I never said I was leaving HAL because of this... Most likely, this will be our last cruise on a Vista (other than the Noordam).

I am willing to give it a shot (if it's still happening when we cruise), but the point I was trying to make to Rita was that it's pretty much too late to cancel - we were told one thing, got something totally different and it's far too late to make other arrangements.

When I booked the cruise I knew there was talk of "As you Wish" and my TA even contacted HAL and was told "No worries - they can have traditional if they still want it", but we can't. It is not available because it is full - even though when we booked my TA got a confirmed Upper level, Main.

It's misleading to passengers - and I'm sorry, but I think it's unfair of them to do this. I would have considered possibly booking a different ship had I been told that there would be no guarantee that I'd be able to have confirmed traditional dining. JMHO.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Lisa, I was going to simply skip over your post because I had difficulty reading it. Perhaps it was written in haste, but there seem to be some words missing, etc., that make it difficult to follow.

But without saying so directly you have declared me (and others who posted something similar) basically stupid which really isn't very kind and it's also uncalled for. Your suggestion that the PTB in Seattle are smarter than we all are just isn't necessarily the case.

Like you, I have every right to post my opinion about this experiment on this board. I also have the right to say that IF (and I clearly said IF) they incorporate this idea on all their ships, I will most definitely leave HAL and sail exclusively on Celebrity. This is no loss to HAL and I would venture to guess it doesn't matter a whit to anyone reading this thread.

I understand that you seem to stand behind HAL right or wrong and I respect your right to do that. But I have an equal right to state my very definite feelings about what I personally believe is an insane idea.

It definitely does not make me, or anyone else who feels the same way, stupid. I realize you left out the actual word, but it didn't take a whole lot of smarts to get your drift.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

OK first off, Laura, I was not stating my whole post at you. I was simply stating on the part that if you have a suite you should not be wait listed at all. If I were you I would have your TA contact HAL remind them (which needs to be done frequently) that you are a Deluxe Suite Verandah S Suite Passenger and should not be wait listed.

Heather, sorry if you misunderstood me or if it did not make sense I was in a hurry to get ready for church.

My Point is plain and simple we are all making a BIG FUSS over something that may or may not happen. Yes, some may experence the testing on the Oosterdam or Noordam. Absolutely nothing has been stated that Traditional Dining is going away. Plus many of you are complaining over something you have not even tried. Reminds me of children refusing to eat their veggies because they are sure they will not like them but as those chilldren grow older they find those veggies taste pretty good. OK so you do not want to try it that is OK too the ships doing this are still offering Traditional Dining.

We have no idea what Stein Kruse and his Officers Under him have planned but I am saying they do this for their career on a daily basis, what they decided effects their future. They certainly know far more about the cruise industry and what their passengers needs are than I do or for that matter anyone that is posting on this board (unless you have been prevy to sitting in on their last several board meeting). I some times feel when I read these boards that all we are doing is thinking ME ME. I think that there is a far bigger picture out there. Let's just sit back and see what happens.

In conclusion I will select traditional dining for myself (although we might try it once) but certainly don't feel this will effect my cruise experience because the guy in the cabin next to me wants to go to the Main Dining Room at different times each night.

[legalslave]

I'm on the same cruise as Laura on 3/3. When we booked that cruise, I was told we were confirmed for 8:00 pm upper level traditional dinning and a table for 2. My TA personally talked to HAL at that time and remembers it quite clearly. I did not know until we received our docs that I was assigned early dinning lower level. Complete opposite of what I was originally confirmed. My TA called HAL and was basically told too bad. Like Laura, it's upsetting to me when I have been originally confirmed for one thing and then given something totally different after I have made the final payment.

Diane

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Diane, this is the unfortunate part and the IMO HAL messed up badly. They more than likely set you Dining Time based on the Dine As You Wish and you having confirmed Tradional Dining. But some one or some department decided to stop it mid stream and go back to the Leisure Dining which upset the whole apple cart and they then started over to reassign new dining. Here's where it could be a strange problem who knows it may even be possible they go back to what it originally was before you board in a few weeks. I do feel someone in corporate Seattle does need to get a handle on this. All it is doing is confusing their passengers no matter what type or time of dining they wanted.

[Slinkiecat]

It's been two years since we went on our world cruise, and we adapted quickly to the routine of an 8:15 dinner time. Nearly four months later we disembarked and I found it much harder to adapt to our earlier dining time than it had been to adapt to the late time on board.

I'm sure a lot had to do with the preparation time at home, where I am "chief cook and bottle washer" and all the grocery shopping has to be done before the cooking begins. I love the relaxation time with nothing more to worry about than my hairdo and wearing the proper clothes for the evening.

Slinkie

[RuthC]

I love the relaxation time with nothing more to worry about than my hairdo and wearing the proper clothes for the evening.
And the jewelry! Let's not ever forget the jewelry. :D

[ekerr19]

OK first off, Laura, I was not stating my whole post at you. I was simply stating on the part that if you have a suite you should not be wait listed at all. If I were you I would have your TA contact HAL remind them (which needs to be done frequently) that you are a Deluxe Suite Verandah S Suite Passenger and should not be wait listed.



Lisa -

Sorry I missed this earlier. I didn't think you were directing your whole post at me, but since you quoted part of my earlier post I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something. :)

I understand what you are saying, I am not trying to jump to conclusions and agree that perhaps things may be getting a bit distorted here, but in all honesty I could not call my TA and ask her to force HAL to bump someone else because I've booked a Suite.

Please understand no offense is intended... HAL made the error and I feel it totally unfair that someone else should suffer simply because I've booked a higher category cabin. We will take whatever happens and adapt, but as I said - this will most likely be it for me on Vista class.

We love the new Noordam so much, we may be willing to concede at some point in the future in order to return to that lovely ship, but I'd like to see how things play out over the next year. :)

[ekerr19]

Another WSOD & refresh....

[ekerr19]

I'm on the same cruise as Laura on 3/3. When we booked that cruise, I was told we were confirmed for 8:00 pm upper level traditional dinning and a table for 2. My TA personally talked to HAL at that time and remembers it quite clearly. I did not know until we received our docs that I was assigned early dinning lower level. Complete opposite of what I was originally confirmed. My TA called HAL and was basically told too bad. Like Laura, it's upsetting to me when I have been originally confirmed for one thing and then given something totally different after I have made the final payment.

Diane

Well Diane, at least we can dine together now, lol!!! What about Becky? I need to email her about the whole dining thing - we were trying to link our reservations....

[bepsf]

As You Wish Dining's open dining option (HAL), Personal Choice's Anytime Dining option (Princess) and Oceania's open dining have been "as we wish". We've never had a wait except one evening on Star Princess and that wait was less than 5 minutes. We usually commence dining "whenever we wish" between 6:00pm and 7:30pm.

Fred

Comparing Oceania's Open Dining to that of Princess or HAL is like comparing apples and oranges...

All 3 Oceania ships have enough seats in their dining rooms to accomodate all guests at once should they by some chance show up all at once.

Princess and HAL have half the seating capacity than their guest capacity (ie:* 2000 passengers, but only 1000 places at dinner in their restaurants combined)

Should all passengers show up at once on Princess or HAL - there's gonna be some waiting going on...

[HeatherInFlorida]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I pretty much have thought for years that this entire board is made up of people making a BIG FUSS over some pretty petty stuff. Why should this subject be any different?:D

I still can't see anything wrong with simply stating that IF BY SOME CHANCE HAL is thinking of tossing traditional dining out the window, there are those of us who believe that would be the line in the sand we would not cross.

It's just our opinion being voiced as we all babble on incessantly about everything. This isn't a right/wrong, black/white situation. This isn't about not bringing booze onboard or the like ... this is simply each individual's opinion and better to state it now than wait until the horse is out of the barn!

I'm sure you agree:) .

[HeatherInFlorida]

WSOD double post:o ... it showed up, it didn't show up.

[Tricia724]

The aspect of these dining changes that bothers me the most is when someone reports that when they booked, they were confirmed for dining at a specific time.....then when the documents arrive, they discover they are waitlisted and frequently are out of luck.

I think that HAL or any cruiseline is simply wrong to do this. At best it's going back on your word....at worst it's deceptive and underhanded. I was raised to believe that your word is a commitment and speaks to your character, and I am sorely disappointed to see how little commitments mean to the cruiseline.

If something comes up that makes it impossible to meet their commitments, the least they could do is contact the people involved and notify them ahead of time and give them some options. Just plunking them on a waitlist is very poor public relations and business practice IMO.

[tssace]

Tricia724 - ditto ditto! I agree 100%.