The recent rash of mean-spirited, personalized, argumentative posts

[BorderLady]

Many posts nowadays smell strongly of mildew, mold and fungus – like they’re coming from under a bridge. One suspects there are trolls in our midst.

Exactly what is an internet troll and how to deal with them? Here’s an excellent piece on how to identify trolls and avoid encouraging them.

Internet Trolls
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

This isn’t the first time this article has been recommended in this forum.

It seems to me it’s time to read it again and think about the effect of trolls on a message board -- topics that get sidetracked and degenerate into a lot of accusations, defensiveness, space and time-wasting nonsense.

For those who don’t have time to read, here’s the bottom line:

Ignore them. Don’t respond to their posts. They’ll give up and go away sooner that way.

[Peggy Sue]

AMEN!!

Just read a post that advised how one can add a poster to their ignore list...

I immediately did this....

I have learned a great deal on this board and find the vast majority of people here are very helpful, friendly and have a lot to share with their fellow members.

I find the "discussions" pointless when a person just keeps pounding a topic like a dog with a bone. Excellent suggestion to just ignore and move on and hope they do too.

Thanks for the reminder..

[Thoth]

great read!

[jazzsea]

I left this board a few years ago because the posts were so negative.I've now found my way back and am glad. I make no excuses for loving Holland America Line.

Thanks for the info on trolls. It helps to know that others are as annoyed about the mean spirited posts as I am.

[dst]

That was very helpful, I also discovered the other day that you can block (ignore) a person. Which I quickly did.

Thanks for this post...... ;)

[Krazy Kruizers]

:) Enjoyed reading about the trolls.

But how do you block (ignore) a person? What happens when you block this person?

:)

[sail7seas]

KK.....On the page that lists the threads, on the upper right hand corner is something like Ignore Poster. Click on that and follow the prompt. I think that doing that means you will not have to be bothered by posts from persons you do not wish to hear from. Lots of nice features on this new Board.

[dst]

I did it yesterday, you go up to that persons name and it should be underlined. Then you go to their profile, they on the top right you click on "ignore this person"

What happens is that this person can still post however, you do not see it at all it just show there name and skips to the next thread. Its a wonderful thing! Hopefully I am not the person you wanted to block :) Let me know if it works for you

[dst]

HI S7S: I guess we were posting at the same time. I am sure we both blocked the samae person :)

[iluvcruzin]

Since the thread was deleted I'll post how to ignore a person again.

Click on a screen name within a thread. Select "profile" of the person. In the top right hand corner is a selection to "ignore this poster".

What happens is you won't see this user's posts anymore. Hopefully things have settled down and it won't have be used much if at all anymore.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

s7s & dst - thanks I haven't blocked either of you.

After I signed off last evening around 8, it seems a lot happened.

Also noticed that my one thread was "removed". No big deal. I didn't think it would stir up so much trouble.

Thanks again.

:)

[iluvcruzin]

oops.. I did it too.. sorry for the duplicate info. Let's hope we don't have to use it.

[sail7seas]

dst.....


Possibly, :rolleyes: you just might be correct :) ;) 'Ya think?

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

Looked at a couple of profiles and found where the "ignore" past is located.

Thanks again.

:)

[jstducky]

i feel like a missed something here...

[LAFFNVEGAS]

KK, I was surprised your thread was moved and not the one that was one of the begining of the Uglyness. Then there is the poll that got ugly that is now showing duplicated.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

LAFFNVEGAS - I noticed that as well but didn't want to make a comment and stir up more trouble.

I noticed that there is a thread on the boards twice. Just haven't had a chance to check it out. Will do so now.

Thanks.

:)

[dst]

These boards are so wonderful, I am glad we do not let a few bad apples spoil the fun, I like being able to block those people

S7S's I am sure we are not the only two who have blocked that person ;0 :)

[sail7seas]

KK.....I most assuredly did not block your posts either.:) ...not dst ;)


My last reaidng of the board last night was about 8:30 or so and know I turned off my computer before 10:00. When I left, things seemed relatively quiet. What may have happened after that I have no idea.

I am unhappy that the subject matter of the trouble concerned me and I apologize to everyone that occured. I don't know what I should have done differently but am more than open to suggestions.

KK did a very kind, considerate, nice thing regardless of what occured. I appreciate those and everyone's good wishes and think it all should be dropped at this point.

[Orcrone]

I am unhappy that the subject matter of the trouble concerned me and I apologize to everyone that occured. I don't know what I should have done differently but am more than open to suggestions.Maybe Dr. Atkins was correct. If we all gave up carbohydrates we wouldn't eat cake and all this ugliness would not have occurred.:D

Let's sue Sara Lee!!!!!

[sail7seas]

:) That's why I stick with South Beach...... Dr. Agatston's a little more "liberal". :)

Good carbs.....

Why are you picking on poor Sara Lee? Whaddidsheever do but put fat on our hips and clog in our arteries? Compared to others....she's a saint.

[Orcrone]

:) That's why I stick with South Beach...... Dr. Agatston's a little more "liberal". :)

Good carbs.....Aaaahhhh!

November is four months away and we're already going to have the "liberal" vs. the "conservative" carbs. I just wish our carbs wouold be bipartisan.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I prefer Weight Watcher, Have your CAKE and EAT it TOOhttp://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/wavey.gif

[dst]

Okay you guys are too funny, there is no reason for you to appologize for someone elses ignorance. The thread was started as a wel wish for you and that is where it should have remained.

There are people out there who like to be mean and start trouble no matter what or why its how they thrive..........

a saying that my grandfather use to say is "God don't like Ugly" and sometimes people are just ugly.

I hope that the thread brought you more joy than it did hardship, there are lots of people on here that appreciate what you bring to the threads and most of all appreciate your great achievements!

[sail7seas]

You're right.....delete that response!!!! Delete it immediately. We shall pretend I did not write that :D If we ignore it, maybe it will GO AWAY ;)

[dst]

well said, now about that cake :)

I am gaining weight just thinking about all the cake and volcano desserts in the Pinncale :(

[sail7seas]

We must have been posting at the same time, dst. ) My response didn't make much sense following yours but thanks for your nice post.

[xpcdoojk]

Hey, how come all I see when I read this thread is a bunch of names with no posts. :D

Oh, I remember I have you all on ignore. :D ;)

just joking. :D

ignore trolls, gosh, that would be such a shame they bring so much hilarity to the forums. I prefer to whack em, but that is just me. :)

jc

[joeinwpb]

If I may interject a second point of view. I am of the belief that with a little respect, almost all is resolved. Snubbing a person goes against my nature. I’ve differed with people many times, on these boards, but I still respect all of you folks.

I believe kind words, and a genuine respect is much more effective than snubbing, and ignoring.
Am I wrong?

[ekerr19]

joe-

You are not wrong. I agree with you. I don't understand why it's ok for one group to feel a certain way and if someone disagrees, they are attacked for their opinion... why not try thinking "outside the box"?

I happen to be very opinionated (as my DH knows) and at times will be the first one posting such... but I have been trying to adopt a different attitude and keep an open mind - I have to remind myself that I don't know it all!

[joeinwpb]

I have to remind myself that I don't know it all!

Good honest answer. It's not easy to do all the time. But it's still the right thing to do.

I even keep my email accessible. I'm always open to dialog. Do you know of anyone else that open, on this forum?

[lddam]

I believe kind words, and a genuine respect is much more effective than snubbing, and ignoring.
Am I wrong?

I don't think you're wrong, but you have to admit that oftentimes "It's not WHAT you say (write), but HOW you say (write) it" that causes hard feelings. Discussion and meaningful dialogue is one thing and ought to be encouraged, but the purposeful use of provocative language is another. In the case of the latter, ignoring that individual is the most effective means of limiting that person's negativism.

Just MHO.

Dave

[HeatherInFlorida]

I am so hoping you all have not hit "ignore" me! I'm afraid I was railroaded into an argument and, knowing little of trolls, tried to reason with the person more than once. I hope in the midst of that ugly debate no one got the wrong idea about me.

Hopefully all that has quieted down and everything is back on track:) .

S7S, I tried to send along my good wishes for your anniversary and I hope you got them before the thread was removed. I just wanted to tell you how much I've enjoyed so many of your posts. So I hope you get that beautiful cake and enjoy your anniversary cruise on the Maasdam, definitely one of my all time favorite ships.

[annebill]

Look, folks. I have a strong feeling that I'm one of those who is banished , too, but there is nothing wrong with open and honest discussion of different opinions on this board. Look back and you will notice that the topics that get the most interest and response are the ones that discuss controversial topics. I don't for a moment condone ugly and demeaning personal attacks on anyone, but some great discussions have been posted here. I, for one, have been very interested in seeing divergent opinions and have gained new insights into some things that I might not agree with. I participate on this board because I now have the time, and because I'm a great fan of HAL, and because human nature fascinates me.

Some people here are too sensitive in that they tend not to tolerate any divergent view. If you disagree with some, or point out their inconsistencies, then you are labeled a trouble maker. If you post something they don't like, they say you are "off topic", and if you are an old hand with "pull", your post is promptly removed--I know, it has happened to me. Yet, those same people can go on and on with unquestionably "off topic" stuff. ( There is a lot of smarm and fluff that has no place here but should be communicated by email), but I suspect that I'll be labeled a "troller" or "troublemaker" for saying such things. This board is not just for those who post hundreds and thousands of topics and replies, but for all who cruise HAL, and for those less frequent posters who may have different views and opinions. As I was once told---"My opinion is just as valid as yours"--and my post re tours in France was promptly removed as "off topic" ( I had suggested that HAL tourist go to the Normandy Cemetery instead of spending their money in Gay Paree--politically incorrect).

So, before Walt deletes me again, I'll just say--My opinion is just as valid as yours.So, folks, stop b------- about people with different opinions and learn a little tolerance. You fall all over yourselves pronouncing how open minded and tolerant you are about every other social question, so learn to tolerate the people who "think out of the box", as ekerr said.

[Mary Ellen]

snip... but there is nothing wrong with open and honest discussion of different opinions on this board. ..snip.. I agree (but I don't always ;) ). The 1 poster I put on my 'ignore' was abrasive IMHO. I don't have a problem with different opinions (if everyone agreeded with me - it would drive me NUTS :eek: ), but abrasive.....

[joeinwpb]

I know what you mean Dave.

But again you could look at it objectively. I prefer to look at it as a challenge.
I have had some wonderful times talking to people in service areas, after my wife has stormed away from hopping mad. With a little respect, and understanding I found them only happy to help out, above and beyond what I was asking for.

I still can’t honestly say I believe in snubbing people.

I found that when people are carrying on about clothes or special privileges for suite users I vowed I shall not say anything, or even view the thread. I know I hurt a nice lady’s feelings, on one of those threads. I still feel bad about doing that.

She and I are fine now, but I was wrong not showing the proper respect.
Our conciliation could never have taken place If she used the ignore button on me, or vise versa.

I hope she responds to this posting.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I think the above few posts are an open, honest debate. Hopefully that is not what anyone is complaining about. I think we know the poster who was beyond that. It seemed no matter where you went on the Boards for a few days, a certain name popped up and it was rare that the post was positive, productive or in any way informative or helpful. I would go so far as to say that it was mostly inflammatory. I was somewhat successful in making peace with this person only to see him/her all riled up on another thread.

It got to a point I was just trying to find a thread where the name didn't show up!:eek:

So I'm really hoping that's the type of thing people are upset about rather than simply not wanting to hear any opinion but their own. How boring would that be!!!:rolleyes: I come on these Boards to get other people's opinions as well as information and reviews. I have found it hugely helpful and really enjoy visiting.

Joe, I agree with you. I have trouble hitting the "ignore" button for the same reasons you do. So I haven't done it yet. But I might:)

[iluvcruzin]

Heather - I think you make a great referee. I don't think anyone hit "ignore" on you.

I think it's fine people have a difference of opinion and that it's ok to share. What I don't think is fine is when a horse beating occurs multiple times with each instance expecting different results. It makes no sense to me.

Once I partcipated in a message board where people started something that seemed to help reduce debating & arguments. It was called "I will not engage". Whenever someone posted something that another poster thought was way off.. They would post "I will not engage". This sent a message - I don't agree with you but I'm not going to spend my energy arguing it. It worked pretty well and cut down the amount of debating and arguing.

It's so much easier to agree to disagree.

[sail7seas]

Thank you, Heather. That is very kind of you.

I would never dream of putting a block on you or on ALMOST anyone. I always have the choice to move along if I don't wish to read what someone has written.

If I am perturbed by someone, I most usually read but stop replying when I see a pattern I don't appreciate.

[joeinwpb]

Sails:
I also was wondering if you recieved my message on that thread that was shut down. If not congradulations on 35 years of wedded bliss. :)

[lknick]

So, before Walt deletes me again, I'll just say--My opinion is just as valid as yours.So, folks, stop b------- about people with different opinions and learn a little tolerance. If only we knew the difference between opinion and fact.

[sail7seas]

Thank you doubly, Joe. It was very nice of you to write it the first time and now to assure that I saw your message. I greatly appreciate your and everyone's good wishes.

[superstein61]

If I may interject a second point of view. I am of the belief that with a little respect, almost all is resolved. Am I wrong?

Joe - you are not wrong. Its sad that there are double standards on this board. One for regulars and those who they agree with and one for everyone else. I always treat someone with respect until they begin to treat me otherwise. Its only then, after someone calls me a name or makes an unprovoked insult - that I get down in the mud and defend myself. Maybe thats not the best approach for me to take - but sorry, I learned long ago that if you don't stand up for yourself, no one will.

As to ignoring - IMO, people are free to do whatever they wish. I fell ignoring someone is childish - but if a person wants to narrow their world by ignoring certain folk, they are only hurting themself - so they should feel free. No sweat off my back

[superstein61]

joe-

You are not wrong. I agree with you. I don't understand why it's ok for one group to feel a certain way and if someone disagrees, they are attacked for their opinion... why not try thinking "outside the box"?

I happen to be very opinionated (as my DH knows) and at times will be the first one posting such... but I have been trying to adopt a different attitude and keep an open mind - I have to remind myself that I don't know it all!

Ekerr - I agree as well. I have been flamed often here for a few of my different opinions. Its sad that folks can not think more outside the box and accept that alternate viewpoints do exist.

Thanks for the post

[superstein61]

Look, folks. I have a strong feeling that I'm one of those who is banished , too, but there is nothing wrong with open and honest discussion of different opinions on this board. Look back and you will notice that the topics that get the most interest and response are the ones that discuss controversial topics. I don't for a moment condone ugly and demeaning personal attacks on anyone, but some great discussions have been posted here. I, for one, have been very interested in seeing divergent opinions and have gained new insights into some things that I might not agree with. I participate on this board because I now have the time, and because I'm a great fan of HAL, and because human nature fascinates me.

Some people here are too sensitive in that they tend not to tolerate any divergent view. If you disagree with some, or point out their inconsistencies, then you are labeled a trouble maker. If you post something they don't like, they say you are "off topic", and if you are an old hand with "pull", your post is promptly removed--I know, it has happened to me. Yet, those same people can go on and on with unquestionably "off topic" stuff. ( There is a lot of smarm and fluff that has no place here but should be communicated by email), but I suspect that I'll be labeled a "troller" or "troublemaker" for saying such things. This board is not just for those who post hundreds and thousands of topics and replies, but for all who cruise HAL, and for those less frequent posters who may have different views and opinions. As I was once told---"My opinion is just as valid as yours"--and my post re tours in France was promptly removed as "off topic" ( I had suggested that HAL tourist go to the Normandy Cemetery instead of spending their money in Gay Paree--politically incorrect).

So, before Walt deletes me again, I'll just say--My opinion is just as valid as yours.So, folks, stop b------- about people with different opinions and learn a little tolerance. You fall all over yourselves pronouncing how open minded and tolerant you are about every other social question, so learn to tolerate the people who "think out of the box", as ekerr said.

Annebill - VERY WELL SAID !!!!!!!!!!!

you are right - the topics that are most popular are the controversial ones. And there have been some great debates on some of them. You are also dead on in saying "some people here are too sensitive in that they tend not to tolerate any divergent view. If you disagree with some, or point out their inconsistencies, then you are labeled a trouble maker"

As you know, I have personally experienced this from a group of regulars here - all because they disagreed with my opinion on one topic - and I had the gall to point out the inconsistency of their position on another , related topic.

As you note - this board is for everyone - not just those who are "part of the club" . Many regulars here get away with things all the time - but let someone newer say or do something a bit controversial and its flame city

Its nice to know that there are a group of folks like yourself, ekerr, joeinwp and some others who are open minded enough to think outside the box and be tolerant of others opinions. Thanks !!!

[superstein61]

I think the above few posts are an open, honest debate. Hopefully that is not what anyone is complaining about. I think we know the poster who was beyond that. It seemed no matter where you went on the Boards for a few days, a certain name popped up and it was rare that the post was positive, productive or in any way informative or helpful. I would go so far as to say that it was mostly inflammatory. I was somewhat successful in making peace with this person only to see him/her all riled up on another thread.

It got to a point I was just trying to find a thread where the name didn't show up!:eek:

So I'm really hoping that's the type of thing people are upset about rather than simply not wanting to hear any opinion but their own. How boring would that be!!!:rolleyes: I come on these Boards to get other people's opinions as well as information and reviews. I have found it hugely helpful and really enjoy visiting.

Joe, I agree with you. I have trouble hitting the "ignore" button for the same reasons you do. So I haven't done it yet. But I might:)

heather - lets be honest - you are referring to me. Because I took a stand on a position about bringing alcohol on board that upset many regulars here. A healthy debate ensued that at times pushed the boundries FROM BOTH SIDES. A followup discussion ensued because a poster who argued against my position on liquor started a thread in which she and others advocated a position inconsistent with the one they argued on the liquor discussion. When I pointed that out, those regulars got quite upset.

perhaps you did not feel my posts were positive or productive - probably because my view differed from your on the issue. however EVERYONE here is entitled to their opinion. just because you may not like mine doesn't mean it isn't positive or productive.

I am a very straightforward person. You will NEVER find me being a cheerleader for HAL like some folks here. I will state and argue my position - just as others do. And I will continue to remain civil in doing so until someone else takes an unwarranted shot me - in which case I will defend myself - just as others would.

[Joedog]

Hey Annebill,

Are you referring to me here?

"If you post something they don't like, they say you are "off topic", and if you are an old hand with "pull", your post is promptly removed--I know, it has happened to me. Yet, those same people can go on and on with unquestionably "off topic" stuff."

I ask because I have never seen the term "off topic" in any other thread than the one I started (not that it might not have been used elsewhere, I just haven't seen it)

If it is, then I owe you an apology because I must not have been clear in my other posts. Just to be clear, I never labeled a post "off topic" because I didn't like what it said, I only labeled it off topic because it did not answer the specific question I had asked and I wanted people to stay "on topic" so the thread didn't take off in some other direction where the original question would get lost and never answered. If you have read any of the longer threads you must have seen that happen once or twice.

I respect everyone's opinion and believe that everyone has a right to express that opinion, no matter how unpopular or wrong it is. Just kidding about the "or wrong" part.

Keep smilin

[annebill]

Joedog, no, I was not referring to you. I wasn't aware that you had used the term. I was referring mostly to the post I had made which some considered politically incorrect and called "off topic" so it was deleted. However, the term has been used frequently in the past by many to protest other's posts.The irritating thing is that the same people who do that are VERY frequently off topic themselves, posting all kinds of personal stuff that have nothing to do with HAL or cruising. Check out ANY of these threads and you'll see what I mean. I would have no problem with it EXCEPT when they cry "off topic" in order to silence others with who they disagree---either that or resorting to labeling them "troublemakers", etc.

Well, I feel better after blowing off a little steam---it's all very silly. Right ?

[joeinwpb]

There are some on the HAL forum that find a second opinion as being divisive and all kinds of stuff. Too bad because it creates a bad [but inaccurate] opinion of the typical HAL cruiser. When you sail with HAL you find they are not like that at all. I love them.

Annebill: I thought your post about "Gay Paree" was right on. I really can't understand why they would close it down.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Once I partcipated in a message board where people started something that seemed to help reduce debating & arguments. It was called "I will not engage". Whenever someone posted something that another poster thought was way off.. They would post "I will not engage". This sent a message - I don't agree with you but I'm not going to spend my energy arguing it. It worked pretty well and cut down the amount of debating and arguing.

It's so much easier to agree to disagree.
Maureen, great idea!!! "I will not engage". I love it.

[annebill]

Sounds kind of like the 'ol "if you don't do it my way I'm gonna take my toys and go home".

[HeatherInFlorida]

Sounds kind of like the 'ol "if you don't do it my way I'm gonna take my toys and go home".For my part, I honestly didn't mean that at all. I have agreed with you throughout this thread. All opinions should be welcome here. My only feeling is that in some cases a few people have gotten a little carried away, to say the least, with their own opinion....to the point that they didn't even allow that there might be another point of view on a subject.

It never bothers me if someone disagrees with me; I love an honest debate such as you have described. But when the name calling and back biting sets in, that just might be a good time to simply say "I will not engage". We do this in life sometimes ... just stay a little above the fray rather than lower oneself into the muck and mire of a really ugly argument.

One very good thread with a lot of good stuff has just been lost forever because of this kind of oneupsmanship. I think it's really too bad because overall (and I'm fairly new on these boards), people are very friendly and helpful and a lot of good natured debate takes place. That's not the same as what the initiator of this thread was talking about.

[superstein61]

Joedog, no, I was not referring to you. I wasn't aware that you had used the term. I was referring mostly to the post I had made which some considered politically incorrect and called "off topic" so it was deleted. However, the term has been used frequently in the past by many to protest other's posts.The irritating thing is that the same people who do that are VERY frequently off topic themselves, posting all kinds of personal stuff that have nothing to do with HAL or cruising. Check out ANY of these threads and you'll see what I mean. I would have no problem with it EXCEPT when they cry "off topic" in order to silence others with who they disagree---either that or resorting to labeling them "troublemakers", etc.

Well, I feel better after blowing off a little steam---it's all very silly. Right ?

Well said Annebill - Keep on posting !!!

[superstein61]

There are some on the HAL forum that find a second opinion as being divisive and all kinds of stuff. Too bad because it creates a bad [but inaccurate] opinion of the typical HAL cruiser.

Agreed Joe, Agreed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigDave]

If she did mean you, (or me for that matter) and she had added you to the auto ignore, then replying won't be very productive.

(If ignore does what I think)

heather - lets be honest - you are referring to me.

[superstein61]

If she did mean you, (or me for that matter) and she had added you to the auto ignore, then replying won't be very productive.

(If ignore does what I think)

To me, there are more people than just her reading this board - so posting my opinion is shared among all of them. If someone wants to close their mind to others - thats their right - but it doesn't mean anyone has to stop providing our opinions on what others may post publically here

[HeatherInFlorida]

heather - lets be honest - you are referring to me.
Yes, I was. And you are not on my "ignore" list because I ignore no one. It would have to be pretty bad before I would do that. Superstein and I made up a long way back on these threads. I have no argument with anything Superstein has said. I did have a problem with the manner in which it was delivered.

I wholeheartedly support differing opinions. I just think that when it's the written word, and we can't see someone's smile, or hear a laugh, we have to be a little careful in how we word things.

I've seen many informative, interesting posts by Superstein. So I wanted to clear this up. The reason I decided not to respond further is that I made a decision to try not to appear combative on these threads. I'm here for fun, not to fight. There is enough animosity in the world without me getting on my high horse with people I really don't know at all.

The other thing is, believe it or not, I do not spend my every waking hour reading all the posts. I actually have a lifehttp://boards2.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif . My email notifications are not working all the time so if I miss a post and don't respond, let me apologize now.

[paint]

Egad! There has been more B--- S--- spewed out on this thread than will be "harvested" for the 10 day rodeo at the Calgary Stampede. Is'nt it time to give it a rest?

[annebill]

Paint, I can't imagine why you would have read it.

[paint]

Annebill, you are absolutely right! I asked myself the same question.

[annebill]

It must have been the deep thoughts and great writing, Paint.

[superstein61]

Yes, I was. And you are not on my "ignore" list because I ignore no one. It would have to be pretty bad before I would do that. Superstein and I made up a long way back on these threads. I have no argument with anything Superstein has said. I did have a problem with the manner in which it was delivered.

I wholeheartedly support differing opinions. I just think that when it's the written word, and we can't see someone's smile, or hear a laugh, we have to be a little careful in how we word things.

I've seen many informative, interesting posts by Superstein. So I wanted to clear this up. The reason I decided not to respond further is that I made a decision to try not to appear combative on these threads. I'm here for fun, not to fight. There is enough animosity in the world without me getting on my high horse with people I really don't know at all.

The other thing is, believe it or not, I do not spend my every waking hour reading all the posts. I actually have a lifehttp://boards2.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif . My email notifications are not working all the time so if I miss a post and don't respond, let me apologize now.

Thanks Heather - I agree with you. Many times it is hard to judge the intent of someone with simply words on a message board. It is hard to do so not seeing how a message was delivered. I am sure people can interpret my delivery in several ways - just as I do others. This probably hurts us all - but unfortunately that is one fault of this medium

[HeatherInFlorida]

OhmiGod:eek: !!! I feel another group hug coming on!!! Superstein, be very very careful because you are going to ruin your reputation:) .

Seriously, thanks. This time you put it really, really well.

[Cruiseoften]

Isn't it time we went back to the original post?

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm



Many posts nowadays smell strongly of mildew, mold and fungus – like they’re coming from under a bridge. One suspects there are trolls in our midst.

Exactly what is an internet troll and how to deal with them? Here’s an excellent piece on how to identify trolls and avoid encouraging them.

Internet Trolls
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

This isn’t the first time this article has been recommended in this forum.

It seems to me it’s time to read it again and think about the effect of trolls on a message board -- topics that get sidetracked and degenerate into a lot of accusations, defensiveness, space and time-wasting nonsense.

For those who don’t have time to read, here’s the bottom line:

Ignore them. Don’t respond to their posts. They’ll give up and go away sooner that way.

[superstein61]

OhmiGod:eek: !!! I feel another group hug coming on!!! Superstein, be very very careful because you are going to ruin your reputation:) .

Seriously, thanks. This time you put it really, really well.

LOL - Ooops - I forgot about my reputation :)

Sometimes folks take me the wrong way becuase I have differing opinions - and do enjoy hearing the good and the bad - I am sure that contributes to it. Plus, yes I have been known to argue my point if I really believe in it :) Plus as we noted, its hard to judge someone's intent thru this medium since emotion / inflection / laughter / etc doesn't translate real well

Anyway, thanks for the comments

[HeatherInFlorida]

Isn't it time we went back to the original post?
If you read thru this thread carefully, you will see that it all does refer back to original post. The river runs through it:o

[Seems_to_me]

I stayed off this string because I thought it did no good to comment as those who violate the spirit of this board see themselves as perfectly justified.

However, I do not agree with the idea of ignoring although ignoring will eventually take care of trolls. It is not trolls who are the great offenders, but those who will tolerate no disagreement with their view and eventually fall back to personalization. It is these we must report, if for no reason than to bring such behavior to the attention of the administrators.

Anonymity seems to bring out the worst in many of us.

[annebill]

Getting back to the subject, one way to get rid of all those odors borderlady smells is to open it up, shine some light on it and air it out. That's better than closing it up and ignoring it.

[Host Walt]

This thread is closed for what I hope are obvious reasons.

[Orcrone]

Thanks you, Walt!!!

[Host Walt]

This thread is closed for what I hope are obvious reasons.
Based on a few emails I received, the reasons are, apparently, not as obvious to some as they are to me.

First, this thread eminated, in part, from another thread where the discussion toggled between hostility and pleasant. Second, the thread is not cruise related. Third, there are several direct violations of our Community Guidelines contained in it, in particular on page three.

The objective of these boards is clearly stated in the Guidelines:

Cruise Critic is a community of folks who love to cruise and we all benefit from the exchange of advice that takes place particularly here! Our Cruise Board is a cooperative effort which depend on all of you to make it work well.

Expected comportment is also included in the guidelines:

Cruise Critic is committed to providing an online environment that is free from these types of harassing postings. Please, don't attack another poster personally. Do not harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything else to another member that is unwanted. This means: don't say bad things about them, don't keep sending them unwanted Instant Message notes, don't attack their race, heritage, etc. If you disagree with someone, respond to the subject, not the person

In other words, the generally accepted standards of civil discussion also apply to the Cruise Critic Message Boards. If a member disagrees with the position of another member about anything, even the timing of the celebration of a 35th anniversary on board ship, unless there is a community benefit to exploring the matter (e.g., the discussion can be helpful to either the original poster or to others reading the Cruise Critic boards in anticipation of a cruise) there is no valid reason for personalized negativity. More to the point there is never a reason for hostile disagreement to be tolerated in any situation.

That said, I am reopening this thread in response to those requests and will remove some of the posts, but ask that you all keep the Community Guidelines in mind as you go forward.

Thanks.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Now that Walt has scared everyone away:D I just want to publicly thank him for having an open mind and reopening this forum. While I did not begin the thread, I did feel the heart of the subject was an effort to "quiet" things down a little. It was a bit of a rough road, and did get off course, but I think the effort was worthwhile.

[ekerr19]

I'm sorry, I just don't get it? I haven't seen anything on this thread that should cause it to be shut down - I've seen much worse on other threads recently... it seems to me the jist of this is that a few people are just trying to figure what they've done (posted) to inflame so many and why others are "ignoring" them... I am I wrong? I think this has been pretty civil, for the most part...

I agree with joeinwpb - if you ignore someone, you may not see where they posted an apology. Everyone has a tendency to react (not always positively) when they feel they are attacked or see someone else attacked. I did so with Superstein - he is entilted to his(her) opinion and I posted a pretty trite (mean) response to something he posted - he never would have seen that I apologized had I been on ignore. Since that point, I've tried to be coginzant of others and really think about something from someone else's point of view.

To me, ignore gives you the opportunity to say what you want - while choosing not to listen to anyone else.

[annebill]

Not to belabor the point, but I have a small problem with Walt's second reason :...."not cruise related". First, I think the whole discussion was in answer to a poster's question seeking opinions about a cruise related matter. Second, I've perused these boards for a long time and have seen just about everything under the sun discussed here---current weather conditions in various parts of the country, best places to eat and/or stay in various cities, various job descriptions, health problems of friends or family--not the cruisers themselves, marriages of family members, theology, and on and on. Those posts don't bother me as we are all free to pick and choose what we want to read. What does bother me is when something that is, IMHO, cruise related is called "off topic" because someone doesn't like the discussion. I don't mean the obviously mean or personal attacks which should be censored. I don't believe any of these discussions reached that point. I feel that the censors should be consistent in labeling things "off topic".

Hope you all have many happy HAL cruises (wanted to be "cruise related "here).

[HeatherInFlorida]

http://boards2.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif You know, Annebill, I think you have a valid point. After all this happened earlier today I got to thinking about it and remembered several threads I've read that have nothing to do with cruising.

As to EKerr's points, I think that Walt removed some of the posts on this thread so it may read a little differently now. That happened on another thread that really now reads oddly because it has 3 posts in a row from me but none of Superstein's responses.

I also think some people don't read a thread through completely and therefore take offense when none should be taken. It's kind of like eavesdropping on a conversation and only hearing half of it.

Cruisewise, I have to say I'm happy we rarely run into negativity on our cruises. Must be that sea air!!!!

[ekerr19]

Heather-

Thanks for the clarification about the removal of posts. I just didn't see anything so bad - there's been much worse on other threads!

Superstein - hope you haven't been run off... that'd be a shame. I may not always agree with you - but many times I do. It's refreshing to read a different point of view. You have made me "re-think" some of my own opinions. My favorite was when all the women posted how much their DH's loved to wear a tux - I thought about it for a minute and asked myself, "does he really LOVE wearing that thing?" Heck no! It's uncomfortable. He wears it to please me. I personally, will not wear something uncomfortable - but I expect my hubby to? What's wrong with this picture? Thanks Superstein, my DH thanks you too! ;)

[ryansmemom]

I know what you mean Dave.

But again you could look at it objectively. I prefer to look at it as a challenge.
I have had some wonderful times talking to people in service areas, after my wife has stormed away from hopping mad. With a little respect, and understanding I found them only happy to help out, above and beyond what I was asking for.

I still can’t honestly say I believe in snubbing people.

I found that when people are carrying on about clothes or special privileges for suite users I vowed I shall not say anything, or even view the thread. I know I hurt a nice lady’s feelings, on one of those threads. I still feel bad about doing that.

She and I are fine now, but I was wrong not showing the proper respect.
Our conciliation could never have taken place If she used the ignore button on me, or vise versa.

I hope she responds to this posting.


Hi Joe,

I don't know for sure if you are refering to me, but I know things were pretty bad between us for a while. I was feeling hurt and I did tell you.

Things are fine now. Really fine now. I don't believe in the ignore button either. It just cuts people off, with no chance of reconcilliation. I am so happy you reached back out to me, because now I respect you, too. That took real courage, so many people are not that brave.

Joe, you are a true gentleman. I hope we meet someday. On a cruiseship, perhaps. I'd like to meet your wife, too. Are you by any cance booked on the Veendam in 11/06, out of Tampa? We have a really great group going. If your not, why don't you look into it.

Linda

[lknick]

As I read this string, I see three themes:

1. How to handle those who just take a different view for argumentation, the famous troll. Now, I don't know how to identify this. One post can be by a troll, another by a person who believes what they post.

2. How to handle those who disagree with an opinion. This is simple, just respond with a logical argument sticking to the facts. And understand the difference between opinion and a fact. Few of us agree on everything.

3. How to handle those who are nasty. Now what is nasty? IMO, this is nasty: I am aware that someone as high and mighty as thou may not understand the true implication of what was written , but please keep your derogatory remarks to yourself. In no way did this post move the discussion forward. It only showed the poster was annoyed and thought themselves superior. My suggestion: flag this type of post with an administrator alert.

[superstein61]

I'm sorry, I just don't get it? I haven't seen anything on this thread that should cause it to be shut down - I've seen much worse on other threads recently... it seems to me the jist of this is that a few people are just trying to figure what they've done (posted) to inflame so many and why others are "ignoring" them... I am I wrong? I think this has been pretty civil, for the most part...

I agree with joeinwpb - if you ignore someone, you may not see where they posted an apology. Everyone has a tendency to react (not always positively) when they feel they are attacked or see someone else attacked. I did so with Superstein - he is entilted to his(her) opinion and I posted a pretty trite (mean) response to something he posted - he never would have seen that I apologized had I been on ignore. Since that point, I've tried to be coginzant of others and really think about something from someone else's point of view.

To me, ignore gives you the opportunity to say what you want - while choosing not to listen to anyone else.

Well said ekerr. While obviously people are free to choose to use the ignore function or not, I do think that by using it, they hurt themselves by shrinking their world. I personally would never choose to use the ignore feature.

Shoot - probably one of the things that gets me in trouble now and then is I don't like to ignore someone. I feel when someone responds to me - or directs a comment at me, that I owe them a response

[superstein61]

Superstein - hope you haven't been run off... that'd be a shame. I may not always agree with you - but many times I do. It's refreshing to read a different point of view. You have made me "re-think" some of my own opinions. My favorite was when all the women posted how much their DH's loved to wear a tux - I thought about it for a minute and asked myself, "does he really LOVE wearing that thing?" Heck no! It's uncomfortable. He wears it to please me. I personally, will not wear something uncomfortable - but I expect my hubby to? What's wrong with this picture? Thanks Superstein, my DH thanks you too! ;)

I'm still here :) Thanks for the kind words. And glad to hear about your DH and his tux :) Tell him best wishes for your next cruise - and I hope you both have a comfortable evening dressed however you choose !!!

[Host Walt]

I'm sorry, I just don't get it? I haven't seen anything on this thread that should cause it to be shut down - I've seen much worse on other threads recently... it seems to me the jist of this is that a few people are just trying to figure what they've done (posted) to inflame so many and why others are "ignoring" them... I am I wrong? I think this has been pretty civil, for the most part...


The reason you "haven't seen anything..." is because several posts had to be removed for foul language and personal attacks; apparently before you saw them. The temperature was rising faster on this thread than on a Caribbean port stop in July.

[ryansmemom]

My goodness, You really do miss a lot when you don't read the boards for a few days!

The general nasty tone of some of the posts has bothered me for a few months now and I have been pretty vocal about it. Hence, my "no flame, etc, mantra, that many of you have seen.

I, for one am glad we are talking about this. It may not be totally on topic, but it does impact on so many of us and the way we feel when expressing our opinions and ideas, that it is relavent.

Now!! For off topic. The reason I was off the board since last Wednesday.

5:48PM Wednesday July 7, 2004, Princess Emily Catherine Fitzpatrick entered the world. Mother and daughter are doing just fine.

In addition, at 4AM Thursday July 8, I was admitted to the hospital with pneumonia. I was discharged yesterday and I'm feeling much better.

Talk about your highs and lows.

It's good to be back.

Linda

[Host Walt]

As I read this string, I see three themes:

1. How to handle those who just take a different view for argumentation, the famous troll. Now, I don't know how to identify this. One post can be by a troll, another by a person who believes what they post.

2. How to handle those who disagree with an opinion. This is simple, just respond with a logical argument sticking to the facts. And understand the difference between opinion and a fact. Few of us agree on everything.

3. How to handle those who are nasty. Now what is nasty? IMO, this is nasty:
I am aware that someone as high and mighty as thou may not understand the true implication of what was written , but please keep your derogatory remarks to yourself.
In no way did this post move the discussion forward. It only showed the poster was annoyed and thought themselves superior. My suggestion: flag this type of post with an administrator alert.

Well said.

Here's a link to a comprehensive discussion of the concept of an internet TROLL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)

Evolution of man from ape to troll -
http://members.chello.at/public/enilnoesieh/image/evolution.jpg

[Host Walt]

Now!! For off topic. The reason I was off the board since last Wednesday.

5:48PM Wednesday July 7, 2004, Princess Emily Catherine Fitzpatrick entered the world. Mother and daughter are doing just fine.

In addition, at 4AM Thursday July 8, I was admitted to the hospital with pneumonia. I was discharged yesterday and I'm feeling much better.

The best part is that event #1 will be a blessing for a long time to come...and event #2 is already history.

CONGRATULATIONS

[BorderLady]

...
I, for one am glad we are talking about this. It may not be totally on topic, but it does impact on so many of us and the way we feel when expressing our opinions and ideas, that it is relavent...Thanks for joining me in saying this is something we need to think about.

When I made the original post, I had no knowledge of the “block this poster” feature on the User Control Panel.

My suggestion was to simply to ignore posters who take deliberately argumentative positions and spin them into tacky debates with other people, where they bounce posts back and forth like a tennis match . Of course, if they’re really good at it, they can draw lots of people into it and position themselves as “me against the whole dang bunch of you”.

By ignoring such posters, you deprive them of the payoffs – 1/ they don’t get ongoing recognition or 2/ the fun of knowing they’ve “gotten to” you or 3/ caused you to spend time preparing a rebuttal, knowing it isn’t going to change the troll’s position one bit.

It’s an observable fact that when people stop taking the bait, the troll either changes their tune or leaves the area. It’s no fun for them when they get no feedback.

[superstein61]

Well said.

Here's a link to a comprehensive discussion of the concept of an internet TROLL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)



Interesting discussion Walt - I was particulalry intrigued in reading their USAGE comments, in particular:

Calling someone a "troll" makes assumptions about a writer's motives that are impossible to determine . . .

The term "troll" is highly subjective, and some posts will look like "trolling" to some while seeming like meaningful contributions to others. For example, a so-called "troll" may be playing "Devil's advocate" by stating conservative opinions in a liberal forum.

The term is frequently misused to discredit an opposing position in an argument. This usually amounts to an undefensible ad hominem argument: many views that have met with opposition and even the ridicule of experts have subsequently been found to be justified, so the label "troll" used this way is actually likely to indicate a correct but controversial position that is stirring up flames precisely because it has challenged a doctrine others actually realize is wrong.

So what the definition seems to imply from your link to me is :

1. People assuming things that may not be true
2. People having differing opinions on the same topic
3. Some people who lose arguments using this term to try and discredit the opposing point of view

Sounds like any message board where folks come from different walks of life, have different viewpoints and are happy to share / argue them with others.

I had always assumed a troll to be someone who makes hit and run posts

[HeatherInFlorida]

So happy to see this exchange ... and so civil !!! I just knew we could do it.:) And I agree with everyone ... I think the issue needs to be discussed.

A wise man explained to me earlier in the day that the "ignore" button does serve a purpose. If someone is offended by the tone of a poster, he/she has the option of "ignoring" them. To paraphrase that wise man ... If a person uses the "ignore" button he/she will have no further problem with that poster. But if you choose not to use it, you then have no basis to complain about that person's comments assuming those comments are within CC's guidelines.

Linda, glad to see you're back ... glad you're okay again ... and congratulations (though I have to admit stupidity as to who Princess Emily was born to:) !) But obviously Congratulations:) are in order.

Superstein, glad to see you're here, too. I knew nothing would hold you down. And look how nice you're being! I am really really happy. I know this makes no sense to you. I just am.

Walt, I can't tell you how I LOVE that evolution of the Troll. Too perfect!:D

It is my own personal view that this thread has been enormously productive even though Walt had to take a lot out. The guts are still there. And we definitely can all get along even when we don't see eye to eye.

[superstein61]

Agreed Heather, Agreed

[Host Walt]

Interesting discussion Walt - I was particulalry intrigued in reading their USAGE comments, in particular:



So what the definition seems to imply from your link to me is :

Calling someone a "troll" makes assumptions about a writer's motives that are impossible to determine . . .

The term "troll" is highly subjective, and some posts will look like "trolling" to some while seeming like meaningful contributions to others. For example, a so-called "troll" may be playing "Devil's advocate" by stating conservative opinions in a liberal forum.

The term is frequently misused to discredit an opposing position in an argument. This usually amounts to an undefensible ad hominem argument: many views that have met with opposition and even the ridicule of experts have subsequently been found to be justified, so the label "troll" used this way is actually likely to indicate a correct but controversial position that is stirring up flames precisely because it has challenged a doctrine others actually realize is wrong.

1. People assuming things that may not be true
2. People having differing opinions on the same topic
3. Some people who lose arguments using this term to try and discredit the opposing point of view

Sounds like any message board where folks come from different walks of life, have different viewpoints and are happy to share / argue them with others.

I had always assumed a troll to be someone who makes hit and run posts

Well, your final assumption is still the correct one. The portion you quoted establishes the misuse of the term by many on the web, not the definition.

Here's another description, more comprehensive, that you might enjoy. It delves into motivational aspects as well. Internet Trolls (http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm)

In any case, we have very few "real" troll eruptions on Cruise Critic. They tend to thrive on political or policy boards (such as hatebush.com or hatekerry.com) where debate is the objective, not on content boards such as this.

[BTW, if you want to see some rough posts, check out some accounting boards. Yep, that arena can get really tough. A big one these days that draws out a lot of emotion is the expensing of stock options in the P&L. Really exciting stuff, I know. Different strokes for different folks ;)]

[ryansmemom]

I was aware of the personal attacks and quite alarmed by them. But profanity! Walt, I do not envy you or any of the other moderators. The very fact that I was unaware of this speaks for what a fine job you are all doing. Thank you for providing and maintaining this relatively safe and clean environment for us.

Also, thanks Walt and Heather for your kind words. Princess Emily is my new grandaughter. She joins her 3 1/2 year old brother Ryan. I guess that now makes me "RyEmsMemom".

I will change my avitar picture as soon as I get a new one of the 3 of us.


Linda :) :) :)

[annebill]

Would calling or implying that someone is a "troll" be any different than calling or implying that someone is a liar, a hypocrite, or any other derogatory term , assuming that motives and facts are unknown ?

[Host Walt]

Would calling or implying that someone is a "troll" be any different than calling or implying that someone is a liar, a hypocrite, or any other derogatory term , assuming that motives and facts are unknown ?

In our opinion, the term "troll" is inappropriate and derogatory in all cases.

We Hosts consider all troll references (even if those people really are "trolls") to be attacks and prima facie hostile posts. Accordingly it should never be done.

If you or anyone else sees a potential "troll," don't make an accusation on the public boards. Rather alert us directly using the http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/buttons/report.gif button in the upper right corner of every post or by sending an email to Doug or me.

[lknick]

Are you saying that it is hostile and derogatory to imply that there are 'trolls in our midst'?

I do not deal with intentions, but actions. Like the Supreme Court and pornography, I know nasty and personalizations when I see them.

And that, I think, is what many are calling trolls. Maybe not the proper definition, but the majority of us understand this.

[joeinwpb]

Its like I said folks. Once you start showing respect. Understanding infiltrates the mind and..........
All things start falling into place. I'm so glad to see so many refusing the “ignore “ button to win a point of view :)

Host Walt: Big thumbs up. The definition of a troll, from what you gave us, would be a pretty nasty person. I agree 100% with your advise. Calling a person a troll, is name calling. It has been bantered recklessly about by some.
They should report it to you, with an explaination why this person shouldn't post the controversial subject.

[Host Walt]

Are you saying that it is hostile and derogatory to imply that there are 'trolls in our midst'?

I do not deal with intentions, but actions. Like the Supreme Court and pornography, I know nasty and personalizations when I see them.

And that, I think, is what many are calling trolls. Maybe not the proper definition, but the majority of us understand this.

Nope.

But the expression of strong attitudes and opinions do not a "troll" make. And I agree with you that those who are just expressing strong opinions are, to use your words, "what many are calling trolls."

A nasty post should be dealt with based on its content, not a perception (guess?) of the intentions of the person who posted it.

I have removed posts that have been seen by some to be very nasty just by their wording where I am confident that the person who posted it had only the best of intentions. That's why I'm very happy to see the preview feature...so that everyone can read his/her post before it appears on the Boards and can read it to see if it really says what he/she really wants it to say.

[dst]

I must say I was one of hte original people on this thread and saw that it had closed and just went back in and caught up on everything that has happened....WOW!

However, I am confused about one thing, are youimplying that if I use the "ignore" which I have done with one individual I am close minded? I would beg to differ as I was tired of this individual bashing people and being mean. I do not chose to read what this person has to say therefore I "ignore" that person

[Host Walt]

I must say I was one of hte original people on this thread and saw that it had closed and just went back in and caught up on everything that has happened....WOW!

However, I am confused about one thing, are youimplying that if I use the "ignore" which I have done with one individual I am close minded? I would beg to differ as I was tired of this individual bashing people and being mean. I do not chose to read what this person has to say therefore I "ignore" that person
I don't think your question was directed to me but I'll answer it anyway. Your use of "ignore" is exactly why it's there and how it is intended to be used.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree that the "ignore" button serves a great purpose, but I found another good way to deal with my reactions to certain posters. I click on their name and then click "read all posts" by the person. If that individual's posts seem to be 100% negative and critical beyond reason (IMHOhttp://boards2.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif ), then I might click "ignore".

But if I see valuable contributions by that person with no negative or nasty intent, I then "give the devil his due". If I clicked "ignore" I might have missed out on getting to know that person better.

[dst]

Heather & Walt: thanks I agree with you Heather and that is a great way to make a decision prior to "ignore" I will have to try that. To be honest I have only had to use the ignore on one person; most people here are absolutley wonderful!!!!

Walt that was not by any means directed towards you, but thanks for the clarification

Have a great day

[joeinwpb]

Re: Another way of looking at it...

Heather I have a problem. I did what you said, and I checked out “Heather”. I came up with 0% negative. So I went to add her to “My Buddy List”, but she was already on it. Now what do I do? :confused:
Please email with further instructions.

Host Walt: As you know I feel that using the ignore button is effectually like putting your head in the sand. But I'm curious what would happen, on this here new fangled format, if you inadvertently put the same person on both lists? [The buddy list, and the pretend it never happened list.] :eek: :D

[RevNeal]

I'm curious what would happen, on this here new fangled format, if you inadvertently put the same person on both lists?

You will cause the board to have a nervous breakdown. :D

In my opinion, the "Ignore" option provides overly-heated personalities, caught in the midst of an overly-heated exchange, an opportunity to cool down without being tempted to see something that the other person posts and having it set them off. It's not a permanent assignation; it can be revoked either temporarily or completely, then re-imposed if desired. It might do one well to click on ignore for a week so in order that the irritant that annoys them the most vanishes for a little while. Indeed, I wish I could do that to certain church members. :D I wouldn't want them to disappear forever ... just until they cool off. ;)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Re: Another way of looking at it...

Heather I have a problem. I did what you said, and I checked out “Heather”. I came up with 0% negative. So I went to add her to “My Buddy List”, but she was already on it. Now what do I do? :confused:
Please email with further instructions.
What a conundrum!!!:D I have no idea. I don't really understand the Buddy List. I just put you on it to see what it was all about. I clicked "add to buddy list" and then it asked if I wanted to do that. I clicked submit. So what does that mean? Does anyone know what the buddy list does?

[superstein61]

Well, your final assumption is still the correct one. The portion you quoted establishes the misuse of the term by many on the web, not the definition.

Here's another description, more comprehensive, that you might enjoy. It delves into motivational aspects as well. Internet Trolls (http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm)

In any case, we have very few "real" troll eruptions on Cruise Critic. They tend to thrive on political or policy boards (such as hatebush.com or hatekerry.com) where debate is the objective, not on content boards such as this.

[BTW, if you want to see some rough posts, check out some accounting boards. Yep, that arena can get really tough. A big one these days that draws out a lot of emotion is the expensing of stock options in the P&L. Really exciting stuff, I know. Different strokes for different folks ;)]

Thanks Walt - interesting reading. I am surprised about your last comment re: accounting boards (especially since that was my college major :) ) However after 6 years in public acctg, I moved on to a broader management role which I have enjoyed much more over the years. Still responsible at a high level for finances in my current position - but its just one of many areas I oversee. Anyway - I don't recall the accountants being such rabble rousers when I was working in public acctg

[superstein61]

In our opinion, the term "troll" is inappropriate and derogatory in all cases.

We Hosts consider all troll references (even if those people really are "trolls") to be attacks and prima facie hostile posts. Accordingly it should never be done.

If you or anyone else sees a potential "troll," don't make an accusation on the public boards. Rather alert us directly using the http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/buttons/report.gif button in the upper right corner of every post or by sending an email to Doug or me.

That seems to me to be a very good policy

[superstein61]

I have removed posts that have been seen by some to be very nasty just by their wording where I am confident that the person who posted it had only the best of intentions.

I agree with you Walt - I think the tough part with this medium in general is that one can not see the person they are communicating with - so we don't see one's inflection, delivery, smiles or yells, laughs or anger, etc Each person is left on their own to make their own conclusion from a bunch of typed words - and that at times can be very difficult, especially when folks are arguing opposite sides of a position.

the little smilies :) help a little - but not nearly enough

[Host Walt]

Thanks Walt - interesting reading. I am surprised about your last comment re: accounting boards (especially since that was my college major :) ) However after 6 years in public acctg, I moved on to a broader management role which I have enjoyed much more over the years. Still responsible at a high level for finances in my current position - but its just one of many areas I oversee. Anyway - I don't recall the accountants being such rabble rousers when I was working in public acctgWay back when I was with PW in NY, we had many spirited arguments about comprehensive tax allocation, goodwill accounting and EPS calculations. These days the folks and I are having extended spirited discussions on stock options, SOx and governance rules.

My thing is basic accounting theory and its impact on business, securities markets and internal management decision making. That stuff attracts the purists, the relativists and the pragmatists...and the discussions are much more heated than we have here about dress codes, tipping, chair hogging, bringing booze on board and kids in the adult pools.

[superstein61]

Way back when I was with PW in NY, we had many spirited arguments about comprehensive tax allocation, goodwill accounting and EPS calculations. These days the folks and I are having extended spirited discussions on stock options, SOx and governance rules.

My thing is basic accounting theory and its impact on business, securities markets and internal management decision making. That stuff attracts the purists, the relativists and the pragmatists...and the discussions are much more heated than we have here about dress codes, tipping, chair hogging, bringing booze on board and kids in the adult pools.

Ahhhh, I understand. The accounting theory and impact could indeed generate a host of different views - and I can see some folks arguing their position quite strenuously. I guess there are hot issues everywhere.

Perhaps if more of the folks at AA&co had debated some of Enron's practices more, AA would still be around today. Its funny (AA is where I worked - but I left many years before Enron) - I recall talking to a neighbor I used to work with at AA at a Christmas party when Enron was hitting the fan. He and I had started around the same time - but he stayed in public, went on made partner, etc. I still recall him telling me - its no big deal - a couple lone wolves in the Houston office taking a few agressive positions - and that it would all blow over. Well we know what happened after that