A HAL cruiser looks at Princess

[dakrewser]

We’re just back from an 11-day Mexican Riviera cruise on the Dawn Princess. This was our first cruise on Princess and I wanted to share with you the comparisons we made with HAL. I’d done the same a bit over a year ago for our first cruise on Celebrity (the Infinity 12-day to Alaska). The specifics of the comparison are: HAL – Oosterdam 7-day Mexican Riviera (R/T San Diego); Princess – 11-day Mexican Riviera (R/T San Francisco); Celebrity – 12-day Alaska R/T San Francisco).

Let me start by saying that, just as on Infinity, we did have a good cruise on the Dawn Princess, and we would book on Princess again if the itinerary was desirable and the price was right. But if everything was equal, we'd choose HAL without a second thought.

I'll attempt to do separate posts for each area of comparison, and I might even stick to that resolution!

For comparison purposes, here’s some figures on the ships:

Oosterdam Dawn Princess Infinity
Year built 2003 1997 2001
Tonnage 85,000 77,441 90,228
Length 951 feet 856 feet 964 feet

Passengers 1848 1950 2038
Crew 800 900 997
Cabin Size 518 sq. feet 370 sq. feet 308 sq. feet

Pax/crew ratio 2.31 2.17 2.04
Space ratio 46.00 39.71 44.27
In “Pax/crew ration” smaller is better, while in “Space ratio” bigger is better. We did find service to be quite good on Princess in terms of finding people to do things yet the ship did seem more ‘crowded’ than either the O’dam or the Infinity. Those feelings appear to be a result of the ratios on the ships.



I'll write seperate posts to compare different aspects of the ships, beginning with the cabins.

[dakrewser]

We were in an AC mini-suite on the Dawn Princess, an S suite on Oosterdam (Sky Suite on X). The mini-suite is more comparible to a HAL SS in size and amenities, though. The S is much bigger with a bigger verandah and a very comfortable sofa. The Dawn Princess cabin, while smaller, was much better designed, we felt. It was actually two “VA” sized cabins with the wall removed. Between the sitting area and sleeping area was a curtained archway which, effectively, made it a “real” suite. There was a sofa (more like a loveseat), armchair and coffee table in the sitting area along with a side table, desk and chair. There were a 110- and a 220-volt outlet under the desk, and a second 110-volt outlet under a shelf in the entryway (where your fruit bowl is kept). Infinity’s sky suite did have two very comfortable high backed arm chairs (lacking on HAL) along with a table which can just about handle breakfast for two but a just adequate love seat (still, more comfortable than the love seat in HAL's verandah or outside cabins). Hal's cabin chairs are less comfortable, and the coffee table won't do for dining. (but, no coffee table on X) Hal had the roomier and more comfortable sitting area, but Princess’s was perfectly adequate and relatively comfortable.


The sleeping area on Dawn Princess had a queen-sized bed, nightstand on one side and a large desk with a chair on the other. One electrical outlet, a 110-volt, was just above the desk. The biggest drawback, though, was the bed. I had said about Infinity: “While not uncomfortable, the Infinity's bed was about the quality of a better Motel 6. HAL's bed is, of course, probably the best in the cruise industry right now.” The Dawn Princess bed wasn’t as good as Infinity’s.

The tub (Jacuzzi equipped) and separate shower on Dawn Princess are accessed from the sleeping area. From this room there’s another door to the sink & WC. There’s also a door from the entranceway to the sink & WC, a decided bonus when one person was sleeping and the other was up. While HAL cabins have a curtain that can be drawn to separate the sleeping area from the closet/bathroom area creating a dressing space, this was unnecessary on the Dawn Princess as the two “rooms” of the suite could be separated. Nothing at all similar on X. Try to turn on a light to get some clothes and your room-mate gets a very unceremonious awakening.

The veranda on Dawn Princess stretched the full length of the cabin and had a sliding door entrance from both the sleeping area and the sitting area – another plus. The veranda itself, though, was only about 4 feet deep, furnished with a table, two chairs and two ottomans. It appeared crowded. Infinity had two comfortable chairs and a tiny side table. HAL's verandah had two very comfortable chairs, two ottomans and a large table with chairs which four could eat at comfortably. Big win for HAL, but I do like the sliding doors better than HAL’s swing-open ones.

The Dawn Princess also featured two TVs to HAL (and X’s) one.

For the same price, the HAL suite is more comfortable, but if the Princess mini were less, it’s a better buy. Note, though, that the HAL suite also includes access to the Neptune Lounge, no-charge laundry, etc. There are no specific amenities associated with Princess mini-suites. X, of course, has it’s butler for Sky Suites and above.

[dakrewser]

While the Dawn Princess bathroom is a bit smaller than the Oosterdam’s, the separate rooms, separate spacious stall shower and separate entrance from the entryway all add up to a big, big win for Princess. Celebrity finishes a poor third as the Sky Suite bathroom is much smaller than an S suite's, with a single tub/shower and no jacuzzi.

The hair dryer on the DP is wall-mounted (like the Infinity’s) next to the desk in the sleeping area, unlike HAL's which takes up drawer space. Neither of us use the hair dryer extensively, so can't compare the power of the blower or the heat of the dryer. Both worked sufficiently for us.

There were a number of small hotel-sized bottles of shampoo, conditioner, body wash, etc. provided on the DP.

Princess easily wins the bathroom battle, in my book, with HAL a close second and the Infinity third.

[dakrewser]

Service by the cabin attendants was excellent on all three lines. Darwin, on the Dawn Princess understood (and spoke) English better than our HAL & Infinity stewards put together. We could always, though, use the butler on X to request things normally asked of the steward. On the down-side, Darwin was much less capable, it seemed, of providing asked for items on a timely basis something we’ve never had a problem with on HAL.

Laundry on Princess is “by the item” (although there was a self-service Laundromat just down the hall). They do offer a “by the bag” option (as does HAL), but it was only offered on two days during our cruise which is standard, if baffling (do they fly in extra laundresses on those days???) HAL's offer of unlimited laundry in suites beats Celebrity's offer of no-charge priority service (you pay regular price but get it back faster). X also offers no laundry packages such as unlimited or "by the bag" pricing. Also, Princess (as well as X) returns items either on a hanger or in a bag. HAL's tissue wrapped delivery in a basket wins them points.

A big plus for HAL on laundry with Princess 2nd. Pretty much a draw on cabin service.

Coming next: The Dining Room.

[dakrewser]

We were pleasantly surprised by the quality of food on the Dawn Princess. Not that there was anything I could call outstanding (although the swordfish – pesce di spada on Italian Night was really, really good!) but there was also nothing that absolutely failed. Still, the most inventive part of the dining room were the menu descriptions. For example, the word “vinaigrette” showed up almost nightly, but it appears the chef that it meant “without vinegar”! We first encountered this as a “raspberry vinaigrette” dressing for salad which was thick, pink and appeared to have a yogurt base! Quantities were generous, and (as with most cruise lines) there was no limit on what you could order. Quality was on a par with HAL but generally more bland. The selection was also more limited both overall and on any given night. There was never a night I couldn’t find something appetizing, but it was a stretch once or twice and I relied on the excellent advice of our steward, Monica, at those times. It's a general consensus that the dining room on Celebrity produces "better" food than HAL. And I'll agree with that, while ranking Princess a close third. Still, some things were better on Princess. The soups were better than Celebrity’s, almost as good as HAL’s. And the baked Alaska was fantastic – much better than any I’d ever had on a HAL ship.

Princess’ salads were more varied than Celebrity’s but not up to HAL’s standards.

To sum up, Princess offered good middle-of-the-road meals that should appeal (or at least satisfy) just about everyone. Infinity had better prepared food on balance with good imagination and preparation but HAL has a wider range of offerings in almost all categories. Celebrity faltered at Asian cuisine which, of course, HAL excels at. Princess ranked somewhere in between with those dishes.

I often like to order the cheese plate, rather than a dessert. While Princess’ desserts were nothing out of the ordinary, the cheese selection (which varied nightly) was much better than that offered on HAL or Celebrity.

For a longer cruise, the Princess menu doesn’t offer the same anticipation that HAL’s does. For a 7 day cruise, X wins hands down. Even a 10-day. At 12-days, a certain jaded sameness factor settles in. For 2 weeks or longer, I think I'd rather have HAL's less than stellar but more variable cuisine.

Generally, though, I’d have to rank dining room food as Infinity #1, Oosterdam #2, Dawn Princess a close #3 – but all were good.

[dakrewser]

Princess offers both “Anytime” dining as well as two-seating traditional dining. Two identical restaurants (one a deck above the other) offer the same menu, with the choice being when you eat. Just as on Infinity, we requested a table for 2, late seating (8:00 PM). And just as on Infinity, we didn’t get it. Instead we were seated at a table for 6 with 3 ladies, a woman traveling with her sister and daughter (the daughter was our age, no kids at this table!). We opted not to protest to the Maitre d’ and ate with the ladies all but one night of the cruise. The older women were very well traveled, lived (as we do) within the SF Bay area and were excellent dinner companions. On HAL, of course, our request for a table for 2 has always been honored.

For the first time on a cruise, both steward and assistant steward were female. Monica, our steward, was from Romania while Ana, the asst., was from Portugal. Both spoke excellent English – better than most stewards we encountered on HAL or Celebrity ships. They were cordial, friendly, efficient and always ready to make a suggestion (asked or not!). Indeed, after a couple of nights they were almost always able to pinpoint which menu items each of us would order. I’d rate this team as better than the one we had on Infinity and on a par with the one on Oosterdam.

There is, though, no wine steward on Princess ships. Wine (and bar orders) are handled by the asst. steward. While Ana was certainly competent opening and pouring wine, she was able to offer any help in choosing a selection. There’s also the niggling practice of charging for espresso drinks in the dining room – something that X and HAL haven’t done as yet.

So what's the score? Princess & HAL tie for DR steward/asst, with X trailing. But X leads for wine steward, HAL is 2nd and the Dawn Princess is a very distant third. If wine service is important to you, Infinity/ Celebrity wins hands down. Otherwise, Princess appears to have a slight edge on HAL, if only because of the language skills of the servers.

[dakrewser]

There are three other dining options on the Dawn Princess: the Horizon Court (like HAL’s Lido), La Scala Pizzeria and the Sterling Steakhouse. I’ll cover the buffets/cafeterias separately. The Pizzeria has no real equivalent on HAL or X ships, it’s a separate restaurant, off the beaten track, serving pizza at lunch time and adding Italian dishes (heavy on the pasta) at night. There is no cover charge, the ambiance is quite nice (checkerboard tabletops, but no cloths) and service appeared to be adequate. We didn’t eat there, but it gets high praise from those who do.

The Sterling Steakhouse fails miserably when compared to HAL’s Pinnacle Grill or the Infinity’s S.S. United States. Each afternoon around 3, wood & paper screens (most the worst for wear) are attached with duct tape to set off the rear of the Horizon Court. Tablecloths go on the tables (along with cloth napkins) and a limited menu is offered (4 steak entrees, 1 chicken, 1 fish). It has all the ambiance of an Altoona Holiday Inn dining room (and have eaten in that one!). We didn’t try it, and it appeared to be sparsely attended those nights we wandered by (one night, at 8 PM, there were only two tables in use).

HAL’s Pinnacle Grill is an old fashioned Chop House/Steak House while the S.S. Untied States is an Americanized version of a French Michelin-starred village restaurant.

The food in both is excellent. The service in both is top notch.

As in the dining room, I think HAL has the broader selection, but X has the better preparation and presentation for what it does offer. Princess simply can’t compete.

There was more interaction with the staff at the S.S. United States - the asst. Maitre d', the waiter and the sommelier all took time to discuss the menu, the dishes, the wines and listen to our thoughts and suggestions. The Pinnacle staff were very good, very professional and very "chop house" which I don't mean as a negative. The Sterling Steakhouse wine list was exactly the same as the dining room’s.

Infinity #1, HAL a close second, Princess well down the list at #99.

[dakrewser]

The Dawn Princess wine list was not as interesting as a good chain restaurant in the US (think Olive Garden or Red Lobster). There was a fair selection of inexpensive wines (in the $20 - $30 range) but nothing “interesting” or out of the ordinary.

A slight plus to Infinity for having a few very good French wines (the Puligny-Montrachet, Meursault and Chablis 1ere cru we had were all outstanding). Good marks to HAL, especially for the Pinnacle Grill wine list. Princess brings up the rear, although there were certainly drinkable wines on the list.

I might add that there was a bar on the Dawn Princess called “Magnums”. It offered the exact same wine selection as all the other bars and lounges and had nothing that wasn’t also available by the glass in the dining room. For that matter, there was a lounge called “La Patisserie” which offered no (zero, zip, nada) pastries and the exact same drinks menu as Magnums, the Wheelhouse Bar, the Atrium Lounge and all the other watering holes!

Next up: The entertainment.

[NoNoNanette]

I'm really enjoying this, Dave. Never been on Celebrity, and am loving your in-depth comparisons.

Thanks for taking the time to post this.

[RedmondCruiser]

Great comparisons. My only complaint about Princess is the smaller rooms, suites and mini suites being the exception. Other than that I find them to be a very pleasant cruise expirience. With Celebrity I found that the mattresses were terrible - HAL has no competion in this area.

On Celebrity we ate in the Normandy on the Summit and it was the best meal that I have ever had at sea. I agree with you assessment of the Steakhouse on Princess. We are off to LA on Monday for 19 days on the Regal, so I will mentally tally up the comparisons.

[booklady26]

Remember that the Dawn Princess was built 10 years ago, before specialty restaurants became the norm on ships. SO I guess Princess felt they had to follow the trned and create one where none existed before. Probably a poor decision. I wouldn't pay extra money to eat in a buffet restaurant, no matter what it was called.

The newer Princess ships, have "real" alternative dining venues. We were on the Grand Princess some years ago and she had at least 2 specialty restaurants that I can recall. we were on the Crown Princess last year and she has 2 beautiful restaurants, the Crown Grill for steak & seafood and Sabatini's for Italian.

By the way, when you didn't get the table size you requested did you check with the maitre'd. We now opt for anytime dining as that is our preference, but back when the only option was assigned seating, if we didn't get our requested table for 2, we asked the maitre'd to change it and our request was always granted.

[dakrewser]

Remember that the Dawn Princess was built 10 years ago, before specialty restaurants became the norm on ships. SO I guess Princess felt they had to follow the trned and create one where none existed before. Probably a poor decision. I wouldn't pay extra money to eat in a buffet restaurant, no matter what it was called.

The newer Princess ships, have "real" alternative dining venues. We were on the Grand Princess some years ago and she had at least 2 specialty restaurants that I can recall. we were on the Crown Princess last year and she has 2 beautiful restaurants, the Crown Grill for steak & seafood and Sabatini's for Italian.

By the way, when you didn't get the table size you requested did you check with the maitre'd. We now opt for anytime dining as that is our preference, but back when the only option was assigned seating, if we didn't get our requested table for 2, we asked the maitre'd to change it and our request was always granted.

We opted not to whine to the maitre d' this time (although that sort of worked on Infinity - we got a table for 6 with no other diners!)

The surprise for us is that the La Scala pizzeria was in an ideal location for a specialty restaurant (and the closed off section of the Horizon Court could have done duty as a pizzeria). It was just one more bit of evidence of a lack of critical thinking in the planning of the layout of the ship. Like the "Patisserie" with no pastry or "Magnums" with no special wines - or the really dumb elevator layout! :rolleyes:

[AirGorilla]

Dave -- nice job. Thanks for taking the time to do this!

A wine question: On Princess, is it possible to pre-order dinner wine? On many ships, including HAL, dinner wine can be ordered in advance during the day. I usually don't need the help of a wine steward to select my wine, and the Princess assistant waiter serving as wine steward wouldn't be a huge problem for me, as long as the wine is waiting for me when we sit down to eat!

Thanks!

AG

[dakrewser]

Dave -- nice job. Thanks for taking the time to do this!

A wine question: On Princess, is it possible to pre-order dinner wine? On many ships, including HAL, dinner wine can be ordered in advance during the day. I usually don't need the help of a wine steward to select my wine, and the Princess assistant waiter serving as wine steward wouldn't be a huge problem for me, as long as the wine is waiting for me when we sit down to eat!

Thanks!

AG

You could do that, yes. We didn't as one of the advantages of having beverage service from the asst. steward is that it's much speedier than waiting for the wine steward (always a problem on HAL).

[dakrewser]

There are two venues on the Dawn Princess, the Vista Lounge (similar to Oosterdam’s Vista Lounge, but only one level – thus offering much better sight lines) and the Princess Theater, similar to the Wajang Theater on older HAL ships (but bigger) and much better than the (IMHO) poorly designed Queen’s Lounge. Production shows tended to be in the Theater, while solo acts played the Vista Lounge giving it more of a “Las Vegas” feel.

The resident troupe – 2 singers, 2 singer/dancers and 8 dancers were the best we’d ever seen at sea. Most could easily win spots in the national touring casts of Broadway shows, half could handle the best regional theater and there were 2 or 3 who I expect to be headliners on the Great White Way in a half dozen years or so. They did three different “revue” type shows (“The Piano Man”, “Tribute” and “Extreme Country”), all very good, with excellent costuming and choreography to boot. The house band was also excellent.

HAL’s ship’s companies have ranged from very poor (I could recruit a better troupe among my neighbors than the one we saw on Volendam a few years ago) to average (small town regional theater quality). The one we saw on Infinity was better than the Oosterdam’s, but no where near as good as that on the Dawn Princess.

The solo performers on DP ranged from two excellent comedians (Scott Wyler & Elliot Max) to a very talented juggler (can’t remember his name, but he was “Juggler of the year” for 2006), a run of the mill illusionist (we’d seen those tricks and heard those jokes way too many times), two so-so singers and an embarrassment of a banjo player. Not only did he try to “break out” and play non-traditional banjo songs (and not very well) but the band played so loud that you could hardly hear him at times (which may not have been a bad thing!).

The Infinity had better solo talent on the whole, HAL’s was on a par with the Dawn Princess. Based on the great performance of the ship’s cast, we give Princess the #1 place, with Infinity 2nd and HAL a poor third. But, then, nobody chooses HAL for the shows, do they?

[dakrewser]

As I mentioned earlier, the Dawn Princess bars & lounges were remarkably cookie-cutter no matter what they were called. There was nightly entertainment in the Atrium (almost always a piano player, rarely as good as in the Ocean Bar on Oosterdam), The Wheelhouse bar (a bad duo who, essentially, were professional karaoke-ists, supplemented by a good old boy group which did, mainly, soft southern rock) and frequently on the pool deck at night. This latter usually featured a quartet called, redundantly, “Quattro by 4” – Mexican rock musicians who sang hits of the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and maybe 80’s, all phonetically so the lyrics were amusing at times.
Both the Oosterdam and the Infinity had multiple musical experiences throughout the ship, for the most part better than the Dawn Princess.

Both had people playing piano and singing, the O'dam had a bad singer/piano player in the Ocean Bar, the Infinity had a bad singer/piano player in Michael's Club, the DP had a bad singer/piano player in the Atrium lounge.

O’dam & Infinity each had string ensembles, the O'dam's played mostly in the Explorer's Lounge, the Infinity's in the Cova Cafe. Both played in the DR on formal nights. Both were quite enjoyable. Princess had no strings, no semi-classical, no music in the dining room.

All three ships also had discos and DJs. We didn't partake of either on any of them.

In addition, the Infinity had a guitar player (folk/pop) who played in the Cova Cafe on formal nights and also boasted a harpist who entertained in the Atrium during embarkation and was featured in the S.S. United States every evening. Neither HAL nor Princess offered anything similar.

Infinity gets the nod because of the excellent string quartet, HAL runs 2nd and Princess finishes a very distant third.

[dakrewser]

I'm calling this "shipboard ambiance" and it's an area HAL wins hands down.

Artistically arranged plastic floral pieces are no substitute for fresh flowers. HAL provided fresh flowers everywhere. Infinity had, at best, one stalk of flowers in a bud vase on our DR table about half the time. Princess never did have fresh flowers anywhere.

The art work displayed on Infinity is laughable, especially compared to the fascinating and fantastic paintings, sculptures, woodwork, and metalwork found on the Oosterdam. Infinity was decorated either by someone with no budget, no taste - or both! Princess, on the other hand, was tastefully decorated with art work and, while no challenge to HAL, was more pleasing to the eye than many other ships we’ve sailed on.

Passageways, companionways and aisles seemed narrower on both Dawn Princess and Infinity. The entrance to the dining room on the DP, in particular, was extremely tight and looped across the front of the shops.

The DP has no lounge at the top to rival HAL’s Crow’s Nest or Infinity’s Constellation Lounge. A pity, as it’s were we like to have a pre-dinner drink. Big plus for Oosterdam. We also like the way the O’dam’s major lounges (Ocean Bar, Piano Bar) are broken into separate areas for a more intimate arrangement.

Then there’s the elevator situation. There are three sets of elevators on Dawn Princess, but one set (of 6) is broken into 2 banks of three. Each bank has separate call buttons. Invariably people would press both up and down on both banks. That means (at least) three elevators stopping with no one getting on. Elevator service was slow. Those six elevators serviced decks 5 thru 14 (even though the ship goes to 15 decks – you have to walk up to the Sun Deck). Two of them (1 in each bank) go from deck 4 to deck 14. The aft bank (or three elevators) runs from deck 7 to deck 14, and the “panoramic” lifts (2 of them) in the Atrium run between decks 5 and 8. There were many confused passengers!

[RuthC]

Well, you certainly did make me wait, Dave. Don't you know I don't do patience? Finally---the entertainment evaluations!
To tell the truth I've enjoyed reading all of your thoughts; the organization of your report is excellent. I've enjoyed the compare/contrast format even though I'm unlikely ever to sail on either X or Princess; it made me appreciate more what I stay with.

Tell me, was there anything like a HAL Piano Bar on either the Dawn Princess or the Infinity? I mean the type of atmosphere where the entire bar becomes one party, as opposed to each group that comes in keeping to itself.

[sail7seas]

Great thread, Dave. Thank you for all your work in sharing this with us.
Like Ruth, we are unlikely to sail either Princess or "X" again but I am enjoying your comparison.

[caviargal]

Dave, I enjoyed my Infinity cruise (her maiden year) and now you really have me excited about boarding the OS next week!

Thanks for taking the time to post and to organize your thoughts so well.:)

[seaisme]

There are three other dining options on the Dawn Princess: the Horizon Court (like HAL’s Lido), La Scala Pizzeria and the Sterling Steakhouse. I’ll cover the buffets/cafeterias separately. The Pizzeria has no real equivalent on HAL or X ships, it’s a separate restaurant, off the beaten track, serving pizza at lunch time and adding Italian dishes (heavy on the pasta) at night. There is no cover charge, the ambiance is quite nice (checkerboard tabletops, but no cloths) and service appeared to be adequate. We didn’t eat there, but it gets high praise from those who do.

The Sterling Steakhouse fails miserably when compared to HAL’s Pinnacle Grill or the Infinity’s S.S. United States. Each afternoon around 3, wood & paper screens (most the worst for wear) are attached with duct tape to set off the rear of the Horizon Court. Tablecloths go on the tables (along with cloth napkins) and a limited menu is offered (4 steak entrees, 1 chicken, 1 fish). It has all the ambiance of an Altoona Holiday Inn dining room (and have eaten in that one!). We didn’t try it, and it appeared to be sparsely attended those nights we wandered by (one night, at 8 PM, there were only two tables in use).

HAL’s Pinnacle Grill is an old fashioned Chop House/Steak House while the S.S. Untied States is an Americanized version of a French Michelin-starred village restaurant.

The food in both is excellent. The service in both is top notch.

As in the dining room, I think HAL has the broader selection, but X has the better preparation and presentation for what it does offer. Princess simply can’t compete.

There was more interaction with the staff at the S.S. United States - the asst. Maitre d', the waiter and the sommelier all took time to discuss the menu, the dishes, the wines and listen to our thoughts and suggestions. The Pinnacle staff were very good, very professional and very "chop house" which I don't mean as a negative. The Sterling Steakhouse wine list was exactly the same as the dining room’s.

Infinity #1, HAL a close second, Princess well down the list at #99.
am I the only one on the Board who understands your reference to the Altoona Holiday Inn? Been there..done that..and I know EXACTLY what you mean. IHOP would be a step above! (you did mean Altoona, PA?).

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Dave, I finally had a free moment to read thru your thread. I reallly like reading your comparisons with the three. I trust your opinions and feel your like are very similiar to ours. My TA swears by Princess and does 3 to 4 a year. She has not been on HAL for about 8 years but will be going on the Noordam in May so I think she will be impressed. Your comparisons and over all ratings certainly do not surprise me and like Ruth I seriously doubt I will ever try either Princess of X. Why risk the vacation time for a product we are not sure about when we already know what we love and know where we will be happy.;)

[dakrewser]

Well, you certainly did make me wait, Dave. Don't you know I don't do patience? Finally---the entertainment evaluations!
To tell the truth I've enjoyed reading all of your thoughts; the organization of your report is excellent. I've enjoyed the compare/contrast format even though I'm unlikely ever to sail on either X or Princess; it made me appreciate more what I stay with.

Tell me, was there anything like a HAL Piano Bar on either the Dawn Princess or the Infinity? I mean the type of atmosphere where the entire bar becomes one party, as opposed to each group that comes in keeping to itself.

Nothing like that on either other line, Ruth, I'm sorry to say. On the Dawn Princess the pianist in the Atrium Lounge had a large following, but the arrangement (with corridors from both sides of the ship coming thru, and circular stairs leading down making for lots of traffic) had the singer on a stage-like platform with the "audience" arranged almost as in a theater.

One real plus for Princess, though, and one I'm sure you'll appreciate is the pillow chocolates - a different one each night!

[dakrewser]

am I the only one on the Board who understands your reference to the Altoona Holiday Inn? Been there..done that..and I know EXACTLY what you mean. IHOP would be a step above! (you did mean Altoona, PA?).

Yes, that is the one I meant! Although it's probably been 25 years since I was last there....:rolleyes:

[dakrewser]

Don't write off Princess so quickly, folks. IF the itinerary were right (such as, say, leaving from San Francisco) or not offered by HAL (like Tahiti) or if the pricing for one of their small ships (smaller than Prinsendam) was good then we wouldn't hesitate to sail with them again.

[cruznon]

Dave,
Thank you so much for your review/comparison. We're giving Princess a go in just a few days. We nearly chose the Dawn, but the Golden Princess rooms were larger in comparison--with bigger verandas.
I do appreciate your thoughts on food, entertainment and the beds. I've been told that the Golden has new bedding, so we'll see. But I know we'lll miss the HAL beds! (I just couldn't resist the idea of sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge.:) )

[liv2cruise4ever]

Dave,
Thank you so much for your review/comparison. We're giving Princess a go in just a few days. We nearly chose the Dawn, but the Golden Princess rooms were larger in comparison--with bigger verandas.
I do appreciate your thoughts on food, entertainment and the beds. I've been told that the Golden has new bedding, so we'll see. But I know we'lll miss the HAL beds! (I just couldn't resist the idea of sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge.:) )

Peggy,

Only one more week!!!
Dave, you did a wonderful job describing the differences in HAL and Princess. I have not sailed X yet. I enjoyed reading this.

Peggy, having sailed on the Zuiderdam in a SS suite, I also miss the size of the rooms and verandas. We'll talk in a week or so....:D

Heading out of the GG again......:cool:
John

[hammybee]

I sail most mass- marketed cruise lines but have yet to sail with Princess for no particular reason. Given, I generally agree with your compare/contrast with X, I probably would walk away with the simialr perceptions of Princess.

All three are different , not necessarily better or worse, and finding the one that suits us best is half the fun.

Thank you for making the time to organize and share your perceptions with all of us.

[Fredr]

Hello,

Our most recent cruise was HAL 10 day Ryndam cruise to Mexico from 3/23 to 4/2/2007. My wife and I agree (based on 17 cruises) that while HAL does an superb job of providing you with an enjoyable cruise, we will most likey not go on another HAL cruise again.

The Ryndam is a lovely ship, with spacious cabins, excellent food, excellent service, and very good entertainment. So why do we want to go back to Celebrity or RCCL? A major part of cruising to my wife and I, is the interaction that we have with the crew. It is great fun to talk with young people from all over the world (and senior staff) and especially to make them laugh. I got the feeling though that the Indonesian and Filipino crew members are worked very hard on the Ryndam. I also had the sense that the Ryndam is a modern version of a colony...upper income whites primairly from the USA and Canada having a great time while young people from a third world country do their best to cook, clean and serve. I also did not like the attitude of many passengers on our cruise, who treated the crew in what I felt to be a very condescending manner and sometimes outright rude and mean spirited. Maybe it is that this Ryndam cruise had an older population, many of whom apparently still believe that brown skin Asians are, shall we say, less than smart and capable? And on this cruise there was a huge number of retirees and though my wife and I are semi retired, we have found that persons who are still employed at least part-time and for the most part more interesting to be with.

I am not slamming HAL in any way and if you have booked a HAL cruise you will have a great time. My opinion really doesn't matter but I thought that I might share with you my experience. For my wife and I, it is back to RCCL, Celebrity, and Princess unless there is some place that HAL goes that we want to see.

Hope that this helps.

Fred

[hammybee]

After 17 cruises with HAL, you are going back to X and RCL? Well that OK in my book. I like variety too.

To do so because of the way some retired pax treated the crew on one sail, does not make sense. The crew on all ships work hard and the pax on all ships tend to be fairer, than not. Pax board with their biases and assumptions intact and a sometimes a few choose to act upon them. This unfortunately happens on all cruises.

[arzz]

Thanks for the time, thoughts and insights. Our next cruise, in June from Honolulu to Papeete is on the Tahitian Princess -- chosen for itinerary, and timing since we are traveling with friends who are not yet retired like we are. We are so comfortable on HAL, there is always that lingering thought that we may have made a mistake to do a different cruise line. You have eased my mind. I now believe that we will have a good trip.

[cruisinbulldog]

Don't write off Princess so quickly, folks. IF the itinerary were right (such as, say, leaving from San Francisco) or not offered by HAL (like Tahiti) or if the pricing for one of their small ships (smaller than Prinsendam) was good then we wouldn't hesitate to sail with them again.

Agree,it is always good to keep a open mind.. I have had two great cruises on Princess, but will look at HA first.. The HA crew and the more traditional cruise ships are more to my liking..

Bulldog

[slotl]

dakrewser,
We were on the March 10th Dawn Princess Mexican Riveria cruise. My DH and I are also "experienced" cruisers who prefer to travel on Princess or HAL. We have not sailed on Celebrity or Oceana (these ships sail on itineraries where we have already sailed). which we hear are also good.

My first comment deals with the Princess coffee. It is swill to say the least. The dining room food is excellent, the service was excellent, the dessert was ok, but to finish off a wonderful meal with Princess's decaf coffe......UGH. It destroyed the entire dining experience.

I went to the head matre' d to "complain". He admitted that Princess uses syrup as their coffee served in the dining room and lido buffet. If you want "brewed" coffee, you had to pay for it in the Pastaterra (sp?) coffee bar. I really think this extra charge for "brewed/drinkable" coffee has gone too far.

We had a "simple" balcony room and found our room to be much smaller than a "simple" balcony room on HAL. Our Princess room did not have a couch, just the bed, office chair, and a small "regular" chair in front of the glass doors. Our patio was also VERY small (but private).

My DH and I prefer the smaller more intimate ships to the larger mega-liners of today. So, a 77,000 ton ship was "huge" to us.

We had been to this itinerary about 20 years ago and were looking forward to how things might have changed. Bottom line - wow!!! have these cities grown.

I did want to comment on the tours. We booked 3 ship tours and found two to be not worth the money:
1. Mexican cooking lessons in Acapulco. Cost: $74 per person.
-- Tour took approximately 20 passengers on two mini-bus to the Acapulco Crowne Plaza. We were introduced to the chef and asked to sit around a "U" shaped table. At the head of the "U" was a small table top grill and a table containing pre-cut vegetables and pre-prepared sauces.

-- The chef demonstrated how to make margaritas. Chef-made margaritas were shared by all the passengers. One passenger made a small batch for himself and partner.

-- Chef asked someone to help scrape and mash avocados for guacamole. Chef mixed in some pre-cut stuff, passenger continued to stir. Chips and guacamole were offered to all attendees.

-- Chef grills a skirt steak (pre-marinaded). A passenger comes up to "prepare" the one plate, rolling the taco, spooning the pre-cut lettuce, onions, beans, and tomatoes onto the plate, then decorating the plate with chips. After the passenger concluding dressing the ONE plate, 19 pre-prepared plates appear from the kitchen served by waiters. I don't remember if beer was offered, but there was no mention of what was included (drink-wise) with lunch. We had our margarita to keep us happy

-- Dessert - what would you like on your ice cream after it is scooped from the 5 gallon container?

-- Leave hotel for drive to shopping. Received a folder containing marketing material about the hotel and a "certificate" for the lesson. A receipe booklet (measurements in metric system) in portion size for 10 people.

-- Return to ship.

2. Tiles, Tequilla, and Hacenda in Puerta Vallarta. Cost: $39 per person (including lunch).

My objection with this tour was the marketing and selling of Princess approved stores. If you remember, the Dawn "shopping advisor" Jo, had a desk, his own TV channel, many scheduled events to talk about shopping. It was a BIG advertisement for Princess approved stores. TOO MUCH!!

This tour STARTED with a 45 minute shopping stop to the Princess approved stores. We were told that the location of these stores was "out of the way" on our return trip, so we went shopping first.

Went around Puerta Vallarta to see a church (big surprise visiting a church) and city hall. Then another 45 minutes to walk around downtown Puerta Vallarta and shop (again pointing out the Princess approved stores).

On to the tile place. This was really nice to see them hand make the tiles, but....another shopping opportunity.

Then to the Hacienda for lunch. Make your own tacos, with beer and soda provided. A very nice lunch.

Then the tequilla factory (at the Hacienda) and an opportunity to purchase tequilla at very INFLATED prices.

This tour was priced very well, but too much advertising by the tour guide.

We are from Atlanta, but most of the passengers were from California, Vancouver, and Victoria. It was interesting to see the difference in the passenger make-up on a Mexican Riveria cruise vs. a Caribbean Cruise. Again, we are more familiar with longer cruises (to exotic locations) on smaller ships where the passengers are from all over the world and are very "traveled" and interesting to talk with.

We definitely enjoyed our Dawn Princess cruise, but it did not compare with our experience on the Pacific Princess to the Orient last June. The Pacific Princess has a passenger capacity of 690 and by the end of the cruise, all the passengers "know" each other....and of course, the crew knew everyone by name.

Our next cruise is the Star Princess to Antartica in Jan 2008 (again the itinerary was the deciding factor). This is r/t Buenos Aires with very little of South America. The HAL version of this is Rio to Valpariso. My DH and I did not want to tour South America, we really wanted to focus on the Antartica and Faulkland Islands. The Star is a HUGE ship. It will be interesting to see our satisfaction level on the mega-liner.

But, like you, bottom line.....we would rate HAL #1 and Princess a close #2.

[dakrewser]

Thanks for the time, thoughts and insights. Our next cruise, in June from Honolulu to Papeete is on the Tahitian Princess -- chosen for itinerary, and timing since we are traveling with friends who are not yet retired like we are. We are so comfortable on HAL, there is always that lingering thought that we may have made a mistake to do a different cruise line. You have eased my mind. I now believe that we will have a good trip.

Be sure and tell us about that cruise - it's one we're considering for a couple of years out....

[dakrewser]

Two more posts in this comparison series, this one a "catchall" for things not covered in the others.

Chairs. I mentioned that the cabin chairs on Infinity were superior to those on Oosterdam, and so were those on the Dawn Princess. Oosterdam had lots of annoying seats whose tops hit the small of your back (if your 6 feet or taller), there were none that short on Dawn Princess or Infinity.

Hand sanitizers were everywhere on Dawn Princess, the asst. maitre d’s in the dining room, in fact, had spray bottles for those who missed the sanitizer stands. These were virtually non-existant on Infinity, with the Oosterdam having them at dining areas and the foot of the gangway – just not quite as many as the DP.

Show lounge sight lines - one of the biggest disappointments on Oosterdam - there are seats in the lounge where you can only see a small portion of the stage! There are no "obstructed view" seats on Infinity and only one or two on Dawn Princess.

Announcements on Dawn Princess are handled pretty much the same as on the Oosterdam – safety announcements could be broadcast everywhere (even into the cabin) but standard announcements (daily navigator’s report, tendering announcements, whale sightings, etc.) were only heard on public decks or on one of the TV channels. The Infinity wasn’t as “announcement friendly.”

Cappuccino. HAL's - in the Neptune Lounge, the Windstar Cafe and in the Dining Room - wins hands down. Dawn Princess has so-so coffee in the dining room, but charges for cappuccino everywhere, a real drawback. And while you can get free coffee in the Horizon Court 24 hours a day, you will be charged $1/cup if you order it from any of the beverage stewards throughout the ship. On Infinity, The regular coffee in the Trellis DR was better than the cappuccino! A very big plus for HAL.

Blankets & beach towels – there are no deck blankets on Princess at all. Beach towels are in your cabin (2 of them) and are replaced as necessary. HAL’s method of having towels at the pool and by the gangway as well as having blankets available on all open decks is far superior.

[dakrewser]

The Dawn Princess, like the Infinity, sailed from and returned to San Francisco’s pier 35. Our experience at the pier was much better with Princess but this might be colored by four things:
1) we’d already experienced the madhouse on Infinity
2) there was only one ship in port on embarkation day (2 for Infinity
3) there was only one ship in port on disembarkation day (again 2 for Infinity)
4) we used a car service rather than drive to the pier

The experience in San Diego for the Oosterdam cruise was much better.

EMBARKATION – The actual embarkation procedure on Princess was much smoother than either HAL or X. On entering the terminal we were directed to a check-in line with only a handful of folks already waiting. We handed in our pre-printed “boarding pass” and in a few seconds were in the line to actually get aboard. This was mightily hampered because there was no way to easily walk around the single photographer taking boarding pictures, a decided negative for Princess (as all of their photo shenanigans would be). Once aboard, we were neither greeted nor shown to our cabin but had to figure out for ourselves where to go. It’s not difficult, but is far below the experience on HAL (or X). A couple of hours after boarding our steward knocked on the door with two glasses of champagne for us. Infinity didn't give me a glass of "champagne" on boarding (although I could have claimed one from the steward if I tripped him) but did escort me to my cabin. HAL Didn't give me champagne, either, and didn't escort me, but would have if I had asked. But I knew the way!

Our luggage was delivered within 2 hours of boarding and long before muster drill. X suite perks supposedly included priority delivery of luggage. While we boarded at 12:30, luggage didn't arrive until after we sailed, showing up around 5:45. On Oosterdam, we boarded around noon, went to the Lido for lunch, and found our luggage waiting (in our suite, not in the hallway) when we returned. Everything was unpacked and put away before lifeboat drill. Big plus for HAL.

Still, I've left the worst for last: disembarkation.

Princess, like X, forces you to vacate your cabin and find a public space to perch in while you await the announcement that you can leave. This after customs & immigration force you to line up to show your passport to some flunky who barely looks at it. Still, Princess gave us a schedule (mostly based on where your cabin was) of when to show up at the Vista Lounge for passport control. The line to see Immigration on the Infinity was longer than those on HAL & Princess put together! The agents were at the port side doors of the theater with a line that went across the back of the theater, out through the photo gallery, through the casino, doubled back through the casino, through the photo gallery, around the other side and back through the gallery and the casino again! Now, the casino was difficult to move trough at the best of times - very tight walk spaces. But in addition to these lines, there were also people trying to get to the Casino, to the Theater and to Michael's Club (on the port aside between the casino and photo) which were their designated "debarkation lounges". It was a miserable, tiring, warm & nasty experience on X and more of a slight inconvenience on Princess. Contrast this with the Oosterdam, where we could stay in our suite until our group was called to leave the ship.

Up until that last morning, this comparison was pretty even: some things were much better on Princess (entertainment, beverage service), others were better on Infinity (Food, Wine) while some were much better on Oosterdam (Art, flowers). Some were marginally better on one or the other. But that last morning tipped the balance to HAL. Nothing beats being able to relax in your cabin waiting for that inevitable call to go out and face the real world again.

We'll sail on Princess (and Celebrity) again, if the itinerary and the price are right. But of the six cruise lines we've sailed, they rank no better than #3:

1) Renaissance
2) HAL
3) Princess
4) Celebrity
5) Norwegian
6) Carnival

If I've overlooked something you're interested in comparing, please ask and I'll try to answer.

[the2ofus]

Dave,
Thanks for your very organized, thoughtful review. Your Princess experience very closely mirrors our experience on Regal Princess ten years ago. At that time I rated Princess as Holiday Inn-at-sea, with the exception of the entertainment in the show lounge which was pretty good and on a par with HAL. Seems things haven't changed a whole lot in ten years.

One thing you haven't mentioned is the pushy attitude of bar staff. Maybe that has changed? On Regal Princess, bar stewards were very aggressive around the pool. In the lounges we didn't feel welcome if we weren't ordering drinks. Never have had that happen on HAL.

It might be an odd personality quirk of mine, but I have rarely gotten friendly with staff on any of my cruises. Yes, I enjoy cheerful and friendly interaction whenever I encounter staff, but I shy away from engaging them in lengthy conversation because I feel I am interfering with their work schedule.

One of these days, if the price and itinerary are right, I might try Celebrity thanks to your, and others', comparisons.

[sail7seas]

Thanks for a terrific comparison.
I very much enjoyed reading it and based upon the things that matter most to us and our own personal experiences on both Princess and "X", we'll be staying with HAL.

Not to say Never on the others, but very highly unlikely.

Plain and simple.......we love HAL and HAL's crews and ships. Perfect? Of course, not but they sure do try hard to make it as perfect as they can. What in life is ? ....especially these days. ;)

[slotl]

In 1997 we took this cruise on the "old" Star Princess. It was 12 days beginning in Papeete with stops in Morea, Bora Bora, two days at sea, Christmas Island, two days at sea and then 4 Hawaiian islands ending in Honolulu.

We used our own independent transportation to Papeete (using frequent flyer points). Our luggage from Atlanta to LA somehow never made it to our LA to Papeete leg. We had NO LUGGAGE for 9 of the 12 day cruise. The luggage sat in LA airport until the "next flight" to Papeete (which is not daily). It was an experience to remember. It wasn't funny then, but now........... The thing that really frosted my cookies was the attitude of fellow passengers on formal nights. The ship loaned me a tuxedo, but I was still wearing my tennis shoes and no makeup. BTW, women don't fit into men's shirts and tuxedo jackets very well.

That said we had a wonderful time. It was a great itinerary and someday we may do it again.

The Tahaiian Princess and the Pacific Princess are both Rennaisance "R" ships, so they are exactly the same. When we were on the Pacific Princess we booked room 6090 in the back of the ship. It is a balcony room flanked by two suite rooms. We had a HUGE deck and a wonderful view. I would book that room again. There are 4 rooms like that, two on the 6th floor and one on the 7th floor. If you book the Tahitian Princess, see if you can get one of those rooms (unless you go for the higher priced suites), you won't be sorry.

[Casshew]

I'm enjoying your comparisons, I have never tried Celebrity or HAL, nice to hear the differences.

[SForman]

Dave, great job. Thank you very much.

[Katink]

Thank you for your thorough and thoughtful postings. As we've just made reservations for our first Princess cruise in November, your observations are most welcome and timely. We've sailed HAL several times and feel like we're "home" when we board. At the very least, they've become the basis for comparison for our other cruises.

Thanks again.

[Fredr]

Hello,

Hammybee, I have been on 17 cruises. I have sailed on all of the majors- Celebrity, Princess, RCCl, Carnival and HAL but not NCL. The ultra deluxe such as Crystal do not appeal to me (though I admire fine food and service and I am sure that the ultras are worth every penny spent fro a luxury cruise).

And you are right that there are rude passengers on all ships, and that other cruise lines work their employees very hard. However, on other cruise lines the social stratification does not seem to be as oppressive as I felt and observed on the Ryndam. Maybe it is because I can remember what it was to work in menial jobs with little hope. An affordable college education led to better things but the past is sometimes very difficult to forget.

As always, I enjoy reading your posts.

Fred

[hammybee]

Hello,

As always, I enjoy reading your posts.

Fred

And I, your posts.....

(Sorry to the OP for going off topic with Fred)

[melissasneu]

Dave,

Your comparison was very well thought out and organized. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and found that although I have sailed different ships and different itineraries than you have, I am in complete agreement with you in every category. We are sailing on the Carribean Princess this Sunday and we are trying traditional seating with Princess for the first time (had freestyle 3 times) and hope that the traditional seating will improve our experience. In the Fall, we are trying Carnival for the first time on their new Freedom ship to the Western Med. we will see what they have to offer. Looking forward to seeing HAL itineraries for 2008. Curious if you have sailed the Northern Europe itinerary and if so which line did you cruise?

Melissa

[dakrewser]

One thing you haven't mentioned is the pushy attitude of bar staff. Maybe that has changed? On Regal Princess, bar stewards were very aggressive around the pool. In the lounges we didn't feel welcome if we weren't ordering drinks. Never have had that happen on HAL.

We found them direct, rather than pushy. They'd always take "no" for an answer, but were quick to suggest "upgrading" (to a double, a higher priced brand, etc.). Still, our last couple of HAL cruises it was almost necessary to run and tackle a steward in order to get a drink :rolleyes:

melissasneu: We did the Baltic on the Prinsendam last summer. Check our web site (http://dkearns.googlepages.com/) for notes and pictures. It was, both ship and itinerary, the best cruise we've ever had.

slotl: We very much want to try the Tahitian Princess but it may be 2009 before we get the chance as next year may well be a "no cruise" year for us.

Here's one picture DW took, by the way, which epitomizes why WE cruise ;)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/435262534_4d4a3d7f19.jpg?v=0

[babyher]

Excellent review and comparisons Dave

Thank you for taking the time to share it :)

[melissasneu]

Dave,

DH and I tried to book the Baltic cruise last year on the Prinsendam but it was sold out. I enjoyed your pix and notes. I hope to be able to sail the Prinsendam to the Baltics next summer. Your itinerary was my favorite itinerary and the Prinsendam is a unique ship and we would love to sail her.

Melissa

[dakrewser]

Dave,

DH and I tried to book the Baltic cruise last year on the Prinsendam but it was sold out. I enjoyed your pix and notes. I hope to be able to sail the Prinsendam to the Baltics next summer. Your itinerary was my favorite itinerary and the Prinsendam is a unique ship and we would love to sail her.

Melissa

It's definitely worth waiting for....

[innlady1]

Don't write off Princess so quickly, folks. IF the itinerary were right (such as, say, leaving from San Francisco) or not offered by HAL (like Tahiti) or if the pricing for one of their small ships (smaller than Prinsendam) was good then we wouldn't hesitate to sail with them again.

I agree, dakrewser. We're looking at itineraries for next winter. I must say, I like the itinerary on Emerald Princess for their 10 day cruise. I want to do HAL, but the itinerary on Emerald is hard to beat!

[calbob]

Thanks for the great review and comparisons.....We are looking at the Panama Canal cruise for 08, and just back from Oosterdam's Mexican Riviera...We have been on Holland and X, and for the most part, both about the same...with the quality of the food a tad better on X. We are looking at the Coral Princess for the Panama Canal, as they seem to offer value, with a mini suite being the same price as a Balcony on Holland...So we are going to give Princess a try as their mini suite looks to compare with what we had on the Oosterdam, a SY suite, which we really enjoyed...Basically it's the extra room, and Bathtub that makes the difference for us...But Princess offers a little more cabin value...Again thanks for the review.

CALBOB

[anotherlurker]

This latter usually featured a quartet called, redundantly, “Quattro by 4” – Mexican rock musicians who sang hits of the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and maybe 80’s, all phonetically so the lyrics were amusing at times.

ROFL... that second formal night (with the champagne waterfall) had my DW and I in stitches. We actually stopped dancing just to record them singing! :p

Then there’s the elevator situation. There are three sets of elevators on Dawn Princess, but one set (of 6) is broken into 2 banks of three. Each bank has separate call buttons. Invariably people would press both up and down on both banks. That means (at least) three elevators stopping with no one getting on. Elevator service was slow. Those six elevators serviced decks 5 thru 14 (even though the ship goes to 15 decks – you have to walk up to the Sun Deck). Two of them (1 in each bank) go from deck 4 to deck 14. The aft bank (or three elevators) runs from deck 7 to deck 14, and the “panoramic” lifts (2 of them) in the Atrium run between decks 5 and 8. There were many confused passengers!

DW and I compared the Elevators to that one Bill Murray movie (We think it was "the spy who knew too little" ) where he was in the middle of all of them bouncing back and forth to see what elevator would pop open first. Even after 11 days, we could not figure out the range of tones and what they meant... ping... elevator is one floor below you.... Ding... elavator just went passed your floor... Pong... Elevator on your floor opening... sorry this one is going down. And when one finally opened it was full.

Also seeing the Oosterdam in PV docked with the Carnival Pride. Everyone was so convinced we would not have to tender in. We were told we were "60 meters too short" therefore had to tender :confused: )

[Scrumpy]

Thanks Dave! You've been very helpful. I had looked at cabin layouts on Princess and thought they looked like a better use of space and wondered what it was like once in the cabin. I appreciate such a thoughtful comparison. I think we'd try them ahead of X, too. Something about X just isn't appealing. I couldn't put my finger on it, but we like the sound of Princess better, unless there was a similar HAL itinerary. Then, it'd be HAL again for us. Nothing against HAL, but we are booked on QM2 and looking at Tahiti afterwards on RSSC. If it were up to me, I'd take HAL every/any time, but DH likes variety. Hopefully back to HAL soon, though. Would especially love to be aboard Prinsendam sometime. Thanks again!

[Tricia724]

I enjoyed your detailed analysis very much, Dave, and since I've also sailed Oosterdam and Celebrity Summit a couple of times, I find your points well taken.

I haven't sailed Princess yet, but our next cruise this summer is a b2b on Tahitian Princess around the islands and from Tahiti to Hawaii. Many of the regular Princess cruisers say that the Tahitian is not a typical Princess experience, but this is an itinerary I have drooled over for years and I'm looking forward to it.

My only comment is that I think entertainment on most of the cruise ships is a real crapshoot.....especially the ones who do production type shows. When we were on Oosterdam, their production show was the best I have ever seen....a lively, energetic cast with a couple of excellent singers; our most recent HAL cruise had a lackluster cast with some new people who missed their mark a lot. Same thing happened on my last Summit cruise.....a whole new cast came onboard with us.....and it showed.

Most of the cruiselines I've sailed seem to get their entertainers from the same pool....I've seen some of them on different lines. Sometimes they're good, sometimes not so good.....but mostly they seem like entertainers who have been around a while. We're usually open to almost any kind of entertainment, so if someone is reasonably competent, we enjoy it. Some cruises score better than others.

[iamnewtocruising]

Thanks for the excellent reviews. We have never been on a cruise but are taking our first one on the Dawn June 20 to Alaska. We were going to take HAL but decided we wanted to leave from SF so we would not have to fly.

Your info was very helpful in what to expect.

[Carol P.]

Dave: You did a great job with your posts!! We have sailed three times on Princess and are going on the Dawn to Alaska out of San Francisco 5/31/07. Since we were on the Sun Princess we are looking forward to the Dawn it is very similar. We also sailed Celebrity,RCCL, NCL. Although we have never tried Holland Am. after reading your posts I'm thinking we should. Thanks again!!

[mamaofami]

I agree, dakrewser. We're looking at itineraries for next winter. I must say, I like the itinerary on Emerald Princess for their 10 day cruise. I want to do HAL, but the itinerary on Emerald is hard to beat!


Hi Sheila,
What is the itinerary that you are looking at that you like so much?

Dave, wonderful review. You did a great job of comparing the lines. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[dakrewser]

Dave: You did a great job with your posts!! We have sailed three times on Princess and are going on the Dawn to Alaska out of San Francisco 5/31/07. Since we were on the Sun Princess we are looking forward to the Dawn it is very similar. We also sailed Celebrity,RCCL, NCL. Although we have never tried Holland Am. after reading your posts I'm thinking we should. Thanks again!!

We did Alaska out of SF on the Infinity last year and enjoyed it, but I think the Dawn Princess would have been a better choice..

[lipoppop]

I haven't posted since May 2005 our last HAL cruise. We had retired from cruising, at least I thought so, but it was a cold winter and the DW one day said she wanted to go to the southern Caribbean. Nothing on HAL in April but we found the Sun Princess and we leave in the morning.

I had ben forewarned about the coffee so I packed my espresso/coffe pot.

We were only able to get a small balcony (Princess doesn't speak 'veranda') which is less than 200 ft sq including veranda (I still speak HAL.) No couch, no tub.

The big drawback to me which Darkcruiser didn't mentiopn or I missed it is there is no Lido restaurant. The Horizon court I am told is several buffet areas with lously foot traffic and nowhere the variety that is available in the Lido.

Moreover the Princess dock in St. Thomas is very far west of the town and it is an unattractive walk from there. Guess I will save on the shopping.

Princess seems to offer more shore excursions than HAL.

Tipping/liquor policies are the same. I put my last bottle of vintage port (Taylor 1970) in a metal bottle. You won't tell on me will you? If you do I will hex the Red Sox and turn all chocolate mushy.

I hope Princess will come close to the wonderful cruises we have had on HAL.

Lipoppop

[JotWorld]

.................................................. ............................................
The Tahaiian Princess and the Pacific Princess are both Rennaisance "R" ships, so they are exactly the same. When we were on the Pacific Princess we booked room 6090 in the back of the ship. It is a balcony room flanked by two suite rooms. We had a HUGE deck and a wonderful view. I would book that room again. There are 4 rooms like that, two on the 6th floor and one on the 7th floor. If you book the Tahitian Princess, see if you can get one of those rooms (unless you go for the higher priced suites), you won't be sorry.

Hi Lois,
That is a fantastic list of former cruises you have had!;)

The New Royal Princess(April '07) is also an "R" ship (#8, I believe). The only main difference is that there are no Mini-suites on the 8th Deck (like the Pacific & Tahitian), only Reg Balcs.

We are in 6090 on the New Royal in 08 for 37 days & the OS next to it for 143 days on the Pacific Princess for a T/P & The World Cruise.:eek:

Those HUGE (30+ x 10+) OS wrap-around balconies on the "R" ships are hard to beat, also the OS's on deck 6 are 968 sq ft, as big as my old condo in Florida:eek:!

We love the Views from the Larger Private Aft Balconies on all ships that have them, that is all we book anymore.:)

Bill

[SHayesShip]

Dave,
Thanks for such detailed reports. At this point in my life I cruise almost exclusively between HAL and Princess and love both lines dependent on ship, price and itinerary. Even now, I currently have one HAL and one Princess cruise booked.

[gooselace]

I hope Princess will come close to the wonderful cruises we have had on HAL.

Lipoppop

From what I'm reading on a couple of other threads, it's more likely that your Princess cruise will serve as a preview of how things are going to be in the near future on HAL.

Sad, IMHO.

[dakrewser]

I haven't posted since May 2005 our last HAL cruise. We had retired from cruising, at least I thought so, but it was a cold winter and the DW one day said she wanted to go to the southern Caribbean. Nothing on HAL in April but we found the Sun Princess and we leave in the morning.

I had ben forewarned about the coffee so I packed my espresso/coffe pot.

We were only able to get a small balcony (Princess doesn't speak 'veranda') which is less than 200 ft sq including veranda (I still speak HAL.) No couch, no tub.

The big drawback to me which Darkcruiser didn't mentiopn or I missed it is there is no Lido restaurant. The Horizon court I am told is several buffet areas with lously foot traffic and nowhere the variety that is available in the Lido.

Moreover the Princess dock in St. Thomas is very far west of the town and it is an unattractive walk from there. Guess I will save on the shopping.

Princess seems to offer more shore excursions than HAL.

Tipping/liquor policies are the same. I put my last bottle of vintage port (Taylor 1970) in a metal bottle. You won't tell on me will you? If you do I will hex the Red Sox and turn all chocolate mushy.

I hope Princess will come close to the wonderful cruises we have had on HAL.

Lipoppop

I'd also read the horror stories about the Horizon Court & the coffee. In fact, the coffee was better than I remember having at the Lido on the Oosterdam. The HC, on the other hand, was no match for a Vista ship Lido - but it was equal to that on Infinity. The secret is to not try to go when everyone else does. Since the DR on Dawn Princess had longer hours for breakfast & lunch than the DR on Oosterdam that was also a good choice. What we found lacking in the Horizon Court was: no trays (just oversized platters), no real organization, all deserts & pastries tasted the same, only tea or coffee available after breakfast, ice cream only available for one hour in the afternoon!

You'll have no problem with bringing on the port - just hope it has time to 'dettle' before you open it! I carried on 3 btls of wine and 3 btls of champagne in a '6-pack' carrier with no problem.

[European_CruiseGirl]

Hi dakrewser - didn't notice anything about room service in your comparisons (I might also be blind :D). Do you know if they have free room service avail in Princess? I just love the HAL room service - full breakfast in the morning...a nice sandwich in the late afternoon etc. :) For me cruising is all about food... :D :D :D

[dakrewser]

Hi dakrewser - didn't notice anything about room service in your comparisons (I might also be blind :D). Do you know if they have free room service avail in Princess? I just love the HAL room service - full breakfast in the morning...a nice sandwich in the late afternoon etc. :) For me cruising is all about food... :D :D :D

I did mention them (I'll find it in just a minute!). There's 24-hour room service on Princess, never a charge but a tip is certainly appreciated.

No full breakfast, though, unless you're in a suite (only 6 of those on the DP). But the continental breakfast was a good "starter". Oops! I did miss it!

We used room service most mornings for breakfast (as the Horizon Court can be a true madhouse early on) which is only a continental breakfast. But we never did hang the order on our door knob. Why do that? That means you have to get up at a particular time to be ready for breakfast - not the best arrangement on vacation. Instead, we called when we got up and never (out of probably 8 times) had to wait longer than 10 minutes, typically it was only 5 minutes. There were the occasional glitches (cereal - but no bowl) but a call to room service got the needed items to us almost before I could hang up the phone. We also used room service for lunch once, the club sandwich was fine, the service a bit slower than breakfast. All in all, the room service was better than either HAL or X, while the room service menu would place third.

[spongerob]

Dave, I think your comments are very fair. I really can't argue with anything you've said, nor is there a need to. One thing I hope people realize is that this class of ship (Sun-class) is quite a bit different than Princess' newer designs. I would be curious to hear how you might compare Island or Coral Princess to the ship you were on. Those two ships are about the same size and passenger capacity as the ship you were on, but have an updated design.

[JotWorld]

Dave, I think your comments are very fair. I really can't argue with anything you've said, nor is there a need to. One thing I hope people realize is that this class of ship (Sun-class) is quite a bit different than Princess' newer designs. I would be curious to hear how you might compare Island or Coral Princess to the ship you were on. Those two ships are about the same size and passenger capacity as the ship you were on, but have an updated design.

spongerob,
I agree with you 100%, those were my same thoughts, exactly.;)

I believe, Dave would surely have come back with a higher Princess rating, on the Coral or Island (been on them both myself 30 days).

They are the Best all-around that Princess has, and most Princess cruisers seem to agree on all the threads I have read. I believe they would match up very well with any of the other standard cruise lines.

Both ratios and almost everything else, would be a step up, over the older Dawn.

Thanks again Dave for you excellent comparison!:)
My Best!
Bill

[Swice]

Adding my two cents:

1. Entertainment: Let's put "talent" aside for a moment. Let's talk about the "material" the performers have to fit into. Some excellent singers simply don't have the right voice to perform certain songs... so sometimes that's seems to bring the experience down. Anyway. We have found Princess tried to be "hip and edgy" with its production shows. There are good and bad arguments for that. HAL seems to go for the "middle of the road" production shows. Princess shows had better sets and special effects but doesn't appear to put as much money into the "numbers" of performers on the stage (a couple of singers and the rest are dancers). HAL appears to put more money in personnel (two main singers, two more secondary singers and then the usual dancers). HAL shows, while not as whiz-bang, seems to leave me more satisified. Also like HAL's additional headliners (jugglers, singers, etc). LOVED going to the movies on HAL in the past, but on most recent cruise, the movie times were more restricted. I wish they would offer late afternoon movie times on the big screens.

2. Service: On most recent HAL cruise last week, crew seemed to offer more smiles. I have zero complaints with the actual service on Princess, but it does seem that the crew members were less happy about serving.

3. Food: We missed the Pizza on Princess during our recent HAL cruise. Usually on a cruise, we over-eat for a couple of days and then settle into a more normal pattern... but on latest cruise, our over-eating did not stop. We really enjoyed the food this time. Dessert offerings on HAL in the dining room were much higher quality. However, I was disappointed with the late night chocolate extravaganza last week. The desserts were impressive to look at, but all of the cakes "tasted" the same on the inside.

[dakrewser]

spongerob,
I agree with you 100%, those were my same thoughts, exactly.;)

I believe, Dave would surely have come back with a higher Princess rating, on the Coral or Island (been on them both myself 30 days).

They are the Best all-around that Princess has, and most Princess cruisers seem to agree on all the threads I have read. I believe they would match up very well with any of the other standard cruise lines.

Both ratios and almost everything else, would be a step up, over the older Dawn.

Thanks again Dave for you excellent comparison!:)
My Best!
Bill

Remember, though (you too spongerob!) that I booked this mostly because it sailed from San Francisco, so my choice on Princess was limited to the Dawn or the Golden. Since the Dawn is at my upper limit for passengers, the Golden was pretty much out of the question. I will, at some future time, try the Pacific, Tahitian or Royal Princess, though....

[spongerob]

I hope you get the chance, and I hope I do too, to try those ships. I think that you might have fewer choices on any line out of SF in the future, unless and until the city works out their port facilities problems.

We'll be arriving in San Francisco on Coral Princess on April 10, 2008. Come down and see us! :)

[happy cruzer]

I did mention them (I'll find it in just a minute!). There's 24-hour room service on Princess, never a charge but a tip is certainly appreciated.

.... All in all, the room service was better than either HAL or X, while the room service menu would place third.

I really agree with your assessment of the room service. But it does kind of follow that if you really have a small menu of almost all cold selections you can have speedier service. I really missed the hot breakfasts and lunchs and dinners off of the dining room menu that HAL does so well, even if I had to wait 40 minutes for my hot dinner. HAL did breakfast right on the dot each time. Princess offers "balcony" breakfast and meals for charges where they serve hot food. They also just started delivering a pizza for $3.00. I really think HAL is #1 in room service because of the menu!

Regarding the wine steward situation, we have always enjoyed the wine steward service on HAL. We tend to not get corkage fees charged and can just give the full amount to the wine steward as a tip. On Princess, we did Anytime Dining with the corkage fee for each wine we brought on board which we have no problem with however it always seem a little more fun to work with the wine steward. We got a good laugh when the waiter on Princess gave us a negative comment that we were spending almost as much on corkage as a bottle of wine, well, we had brought a very nice Pinot Noir onboard, and those are really rare on most wine lists (there were only 3 different Pinots on the wine list at the time). That waiter seemed to think it was all about the price.

On the Grand, we loved the 4 pools and many hot tubs.

Anyway, loved getting to see Princess through your eyes. thank you for sharing.

[dakrewser]

Regarding the wine steward situation, we have always enjoyed the wine steward service on HAL. We tend to not get corkage fees charged and can just give the full amount to the wine steward as a tip. On Princess, we did Anytime Dining with the corkage fee for each wine we brought on board which we have no problem with however it always seem a little more fun to work with the wine steward.

The Princess wine list doesn't really need a trained steward to explain it, though. :rolleyes:

We always liked HAL's wine stewards, but the recent (last couple of years) cutbacks in staffing has left fewer stewards with less training to cover more tables - service is far too slow, far less knowledgeable - far less fun. We found Celebrity to be far superior in wine service.

And the asst. waiter on the Dawn Princess had no trouble writing up corkage fees for us !:o