X to Bermuda no longer kid friendly

[pilewski]

I am very disappointed with Celebrity. Their only sailings to Bermuda are on Journey this year and there are no chidlren's programs on the ship. I booked 2 sky suites last week through Celebrity and was told by the person taking the reservation that there would be the same children's programs on Journey as the other X ships. Now I will have to cancel my reservations. I have 3 children, 7, 4 and 2 and there is no way I would subject them or other passengers to 7 days on a boat with nothing for the kids to do. It's a shame that Celebrity is not providing a full service ship to such a family oriented destination. Also, each time I called Celebrity this past week to inquire about the ship, I received conflicting responses from the representatives. I feel bad for those people who booked their family summer vacation on Journey and find out at the dock that there will be no kids' programs.

To make matters worse, I can't find any available cabins on other lines for August. I need a cruise!!!!

[dkjretired]

I am very disappointed with Celebrity. Their only sailings to Bermuda are on Journey this year and there are no chidlren's programs on the ship. I booked 2 sky suites last week through Celebrity and was told by the person taking the reservation that there would be the same children's programs on Journey as the other X ships. Now I will have to cancel my reservations. I have 3 children, 7, 4 and 2 and there is no way I would subject them or other passengers to 7 days on a boat with nothing for the kids to do. It's a shame that Celebrity is not providing a full service ship to such a family oriented destination. Also, each time I called Celebrity this past week to inquire about the ship, I received conflicting responses from the representatives. I feel bad for those people who booked their family summer vacation on Journey and find out at the dock that there will be no kids' programs.

To make matters worse, I can't find any available cabins on other lines for August. I need a cruise!!!!

I agree with you, I think it was a very poor decision by Celebrity not to provide Children's programs at least for this summer to Bermuda. Many people booked the Bermuda trip thinking they were going on the Zenith and then had it changed by Celebrity.

[beauxdammit]

As for me, if I lived on the east coast I would be most interested in a non-kid cruise. Don't get me wrong, I like children, but after raising seven of my own, I don't want to spend the vacations of my later years dealing with a bunch of rug-rats.

Hope you find a great family cruise.

[Mary El]

Pilewski: But it's only two days crossing. Five days in Bermuda where most of your time is spent on shore anyway. Right?

[florisdekort]

Personally, I am very happy with the introduction of the more upscale XPeditions brand, but I agree that this year's Bermuda cruises will be quite a different experience then last year's.

Anyway, there are only 2 sea days. Is it so difficult to entertain your own kids for 2 days? When I was young, there were no kid's programs at all. I played with other kids and with my brothers and sisters. And my parents spend quality time with their kids, away from the stress of work.

Best Regards,
Floris

[rebeccalouise]

In all honesty- I cruise to Bermuda and being docked in Bermuda isn't that exciting. We stayed at the Reef's in Bermuda- no kids programs but there was so much for kids to do and they offer babysitting at night. They have excellent food. I would rather fly to Bermuda than cruise there.

I just got off the phone from Celebrity and they DON'T have kids programs on Journey or Quest. I called in January and was told they would have kids programs. But the bottom line is they don't. They are offering babysitting at night.

I went on Oceania Regatta, which is a sister ship to Journey and Quest. It was great. There were only three kids on board but they played pingpong, swam in the pool, played among themselves and seemed to have a really nice time. It was a port intensive cruise.

If it is your kids first cruise, I think they would enjoy it because they would have nothing to compare it to. But my six year old would be disappointed- unless the adults were willing to entertain him with board games, etc. For the price of Journey- I wouldn't take kids on there. They would have more fun on a larger ship with the youth programs.

I wrote a review of Oceania Regatta- which will give you some insights of what to expect on Journey. Go the Reviews and "Regatta".

[vicgiz]

Ship Name: Explorer Of The Seas
Departure Port: Cape Liberty Cruise Port, New Jersey
Ports of Call: Cape Liberty Cruise Port, New Jersey; Kings Wharf, Bermuda; Cape Liberty Cruise Port, New Jersey
2007 Date(s): Aug 12 (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cruiseDetails/itineraryAndPricing.do;jsessionid=0000GnLYwlmnGS4S oAM6LW_F0Px:10ktmerri?packageCode=EX05B001&sailDate=1070812&date=20073&selectedCurrencyCode=&promoType=) , Aug 26 (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cruiseDetails/itineraryAndPricing.do;jsessionid=0000GnLYwlmnGS4S oAM6LW_F0Px:10ktmerri?packageCode=EX05B001&sailDate=1070826&date=20073&selectedCurrencyCode=&promoType=)

I copied this from the Royal Caribbean site....it looked to me like rooms are available. These sailings are 5-nights. Good luck!

[Spender Nui]

The Journey and the Quest are not kid friendly. They were built as NO KID ALLOWED ships.

Great ships but leave the kids at home.

[Blazerboy]

I can't take the OP to task too much, as she booked with the information that there WERE kids programs, and it would be a disappointment, especially, as someone pointed out, if the kids had cruised a line WITH a kid's program before.

But, like Floris, I grew up taking these trips, starting at age four. Some ships had minimal kid's programs, but most had none. And yet, these are some of my FAVORITE childhood memories. Swimming, movies, shuffleboard, ping pong, great meals, etc. Yes, it's not too bad a life for a kid. But it depends on the kid...and the parents...

The one reason I wouldn't take the cruise in your situation is that it sounds like you were depending on the kids program to occupy them while you and your s.o. relaxed (no problem with that- kids programs ARE a great way for an entire family to truly relax). I think you're wise to realize that, at their particular ages, it would either be a 24/7 parenting 'vacation' for you, or a potential unpleasant situation for other cruisers if your children would be antsy or upset with the situation.

I hope you find an alternative that works for the family. Good luck! :)

Andrew

[Charles4515]

I am very disappointed with Celebrity. Their only sailings to Bermuda are on Journey this year and there are no chidlren's programs on the ship. I booked 2 sky suites last week through !

These "Journey Class" ships are in a seperate catagory and if you look at the deck plans and size of the ship, they are small, a childrens program like on the other ships is not possible. Even the adults activities are going to be more limited. So people are going to complain there is not enough to do.

[doublemm16]

I am a Celebrity loyalist, but I will not be able to take them to Bermuda this summer because of the cost. (I had gone twice before on the Zenith and the Horizon).

If you do not mind a little driving, RCCL's Empress of the Seas is going to Bermuda out of Philly. I am going on the August 18th trip. I know it is a small ship and the cabins are small, but there are still suites left, and the price is right. This will only be my 2nd RCCL cruise (my last one in 1998), but I have read good things about the Empress...she is leaving the RCCL fleet next year.

Maybe you should look at this cruise...they have a great children's program!

Good luck!:)

[Susan-M]

Pilewski: But it's only two days crossing. Five days in Bermuda where most of your time is spent on shore anyway. Right?

It works out to 3 3/4 days in Bermuda (arrival at 9 a.m. on Monday morning and departure at 3 p.m. on Thursday) - and one full day plus late afternoon/evening of cruising each way. But you are right....once there, most of your time can be spent on shore .... and what a beautiful island to spend several days on!

[bububr]

However I for one am VERY happy that X has decided to make its new aquisitions ADULT, and less family friendly. I prefer the company of adults over children, RCCL has plenty of family friendly cruises......X SHOULD be geared more tward adults as it advertises...

So for me this is a good thing. Lets hope all the ships eventually move tward the ADULT side and keep the families with young children, infants and toddlers on RCCL.

Dave:eek:

[pilewski]

However I for one am VERY happy that X has decided to make its new aquisitions ADULT, and less family friendly. I prefer the company of adults over children, RCCL has plenty of family friendly cruises......X SHOULD be geared more tward adults as it advertises...

So for me this is a good thing. Lets hope all the ships eventually move tward the ADULT side and keep the families with young children, infants and toddlers on RCCL.

Dave:eek:

Now why would you say that. Guests with children shouldn't be able to experience Celebrity?

[ocngypz]

The Norwegian Crown sails August 5 7 nights to Bermuda. Triples and quads are available as well as onboard credit.

There are plenty of family oriented ships sailing to Bermuda. Journey is the ONLY one which is adult-oriented.

[JCDeck]

Celebrity has never really been marketed towards the family/children cruising at all,but there are lots of lines that do. You'll find a nice cruise, don't worry. They are very same ships anyway (journey and quest) i would think even if they did do the kid thing it would be extremely limited.

[cruisingdelt]

From RCL site (it's not from NYC but only about 2hrs away). They have cabins and my brother, his DW and 3 children will be on the 8/4 sailing.

Ship Name: Empress Of The Seas
Departure Port: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Ports of Call: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Hamilton, Bermuda; St. George Island, Bermuda; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
2007 Date(s): Jul 28 (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cruiseDetails/itineraryAndPricing.do;jsessionid=0000mMduf_hGRaEG n21hZPXDqwf:10ktmf1jr?packageCode=NE07B005&sailDate=1070728&date=20083&selectedCurrencyCode=USD&promoType=) , Aug 04 (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cruiseDetails/itineraryAndPricing.do;jsessionid=0000mMduf_hGRaEG n21hZPXDqwf:10ktmf1jr?packageCode=NE07B005&sailDate=1070804&date=20083&selectedCurrencyCode=USD&promoType=) , Aug 11 (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cruiseDetails/itineraryAndPricing.do;jsessionid=0000mMduf_hGRaEG n21hZPXDqwf:10ktmf1jr?packageCode=NE07B005&sailDate=1070811&date=20083&selectedCurrencyCode=USD&promoType=) , Aug 18 (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cruiseDetails/itineraryAndPricing.do;jsessionid=0000mMduf_hGRaEG n21hZPXDqwf:10ktmf1jr?packageCode=NE07B005&sailDate=1070818&date=20083&selectedCurrencyCode=USD&promoType=) , Aug 25 (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/cruiseDetails/itineraryAndPricing.do;jsessionid=0000mMduf_hGRaEG n21hZPXDqwf:10ktmf1jr?packageCode=NE07B005&sailDate=1070825&date=20083&selectedCurrencyCode=USD&promoType=)

[Charles4515]

Now why would you say that. Guests with children shouldn't be able to experience Celebrity?

Royal Caribbean certainly is a more family oriented brand than Celebrity but really all they have done is set up a small sub brand of Celebrity with a couple of small ships that are not going to be very good ships for children. It is a just a fact they were designed that way by the company that originally owned them. A very small part of the fleet and they do market it separately. What Dave suggested is not going to happen. The main Celebrity fleet will have continue to have children's programs and be family friendly.

[dkjretired]

However I for one am VERY happy that X has decided to make its new aquisitions ADULT, and less family friendly. I prefer the company of adults over children, RCCL has plenty of family friendly cruises......X SHOULD be geared more tward adults as it advertises...

So for me this is a good thing. Lets hope all the ships eventually move tward the ADULT side and keep the families with young children, infants and toddlers on RCCL.

Dave:eek:

If Celebrity did that, in a few years they would not exist. I really have to laugh when poeple say that Celebrity doesn't market towards families. They have dedicated childrens rooms with excellent programs including the Leap Frog Schoolhouse. If it weren't for those families with their kids, they wouldn't be around now. X should be geard towards everyone and not just adults. The Bermuda market in the summer was loaded with kids on the Zenith and Horizon....

[BrooklynGirl2]

I feel for you Pilewski. We had the same situation. We loved Zenith to Bermuda and have done it 4 times. Great ship, great crew, great food and a reasonable price. We have one 7 year old now and he loved the kids program on Zenith.

As a result of X having no family friendly ship leaving from the east coast in summer, we've switched over to Princess. Have you thought about the Crown Princess? It leaves from Brooklyn which is drivable for you. Of course, it's not the same exact itinerary as it only spends one day in Bermuda but it stops in Grand Turk, San Juan and St. Thomas.

I understand they have a great kids program and are family friendly. They seem close to X in many areas and they do offer traditional OR anytime dining. We like traditional and that sealed the deal for us. Besides, I'm dying to try their fettucine ;) .

If you cruise with kids you won't find much sympathy on this Board. Most X cruisers would like to see no kids on any of the X ships. Their answer seems to always be... if you have kids, then sail RCL. Well, what if you have kids but want fine food, excellent service and the extra nice touches that X provides?? If you like Celebrity I would never steer you to NCL.

From my research, it seems that Princess offers the closest thing to the Celebrity experience with the kid friendly aspect to it. I could be wrong but I'm willing to try it. :)

[Charles4515]

If Celebrity did that, in a few years they would not exist. I really have to laugh when poeple say that Celebrity doesn't market towards families. They have dedicated childrens rooms with excellent programs including the Leap Frog Schoolhouse. If it weren't for those families with their kids, they wouldn't be around now. X should be geard towards everyone and not just adults. The Bermuda market in the summer was loaded with kids on the Zenith and Horizon....

Very true. That is why I avoided the July and August summer sailings to Bermuda. And the Celebrity summer sailings to the Caribbean too. I did one in July on Century and learned a lesson, don't book when the kids are out of school. Some of the teenagers were puking all over the ship and some were having sex on the outside decks late at night. Also the little kids were running up and down the halls all night knocking on cabin doors. Hmm. Maybe that is why Celebrity doesn't have summer Caribbean sailings anymore!

[JCDeck]

Very true. That is why I avoided the July and August summer sailings to Bermuda. And the Celebrity summer sailings to the Caribbean too. I did one in July on Century and learned a lesson, don't book when the kids are out of school. Some of the teenagers were puking all over the ship and some were having sex on the outside decks late at night. Also the little kids were running up and down the halls all night knocking on cabin doors. Hmm. Maybe that is why Celebrity doesn't have summer Caribbean sailings anymore!

The little darlings.

[cruisingdelt]

We did Sapphire Princess a year ago. Very nice and I would do it again but I really prefer Celebrity. Princess has better entertainment and nicer (newer) ships. Celebrity wins for food and service. My kids are older, now, but they have been cruising on Celebrity since they were 13 and 10.

[Charles4515]

I feel for you Pilewski. We had the same situation. We loved Zenith to Bermuda and have done it 4 times. Great ship, great crew, great food and a reasonable price. We have one 7 year old now and he loved the kids program on Zenith.

As a result of X having no family friendly ship leaving from the east coast in summer, we've switched over to Princess. Have you thought about the Crown Princess? It leaves from Brooklyn which is drivable for you. Of course, it's not the same exact itinerary as it only spends one day in Bermuda but it stops in Grand Turk, San Juan and St. Thomas.

I understand they have a great kids program and are family friendly. They seem close to X in many areas and they do offer traditional OR anytime dining. We like traditional and that sealed the deal for us. Besides, I'm dying to try their fettucine ;) .

If you cruise with kids you won't find much sympathy on this Board. Most X cruisers would like to see no kids on any of the X ships. Their answer seems to always be... if you have kids, then sail RCL. Well, what if you have kids but want fine food, excellent service and the extra nice touches that X provides?? If you like Celebrity I would never steer you to NCL.

From my research, it seems that Princess offers the closest thing to the Celebrity experience with the kid friendly aspect to it. I could be wrong but I'm willing to try it. :)

I don't think it is true that most X cruisers would like to see no kids on X ships.

[dkjretired]

Very true. That is why I avoided the July and August summer sailings to Bermuda. And the Celebrity summer sailings to the Caribbean too. I did one in July on Century and learned a lesson, don't book when the kids are out of school. Some of the teenagers were puking all over the ship and some were having sex on the outside decks late at night. Also the little kids were running up and down the halls all night knocking on cabin doors. Hmm. Maybe that is why Celebrity doesn't have summer Caribbean sailings anymore!

Charles:

I did the summer sailings because I wanted to take my kids to Bermuda. After they were older went back in May without them and had a great time with just wife and myself.

By the way, except for the running down the halls knocking on the cabin doors, I saw all the other things you mentioned on the ship being done by adults in Public. Did see an adult who thought it was funny to hit all the elevator buttons so I guess those activites are not exclusive to children...

[pilewski]

I feel for you Pilewski. We had the same situation. We loved Zenith to Bermuda and have done it 4 times. Great ship, great crew, great food and a reasonable price. We have one 7 year old now and he loved the kids program on Zenith.

As a result of X having no family friendly ship leaving from the east coast in summer, we've switched over to Princess. Have you thought about the Crown Princess? It leaves from Brooklyn which is drivable for you. Of course, it's not the same exact itinerary as it only spends one day in Bermuda but it stops in Grand Turk, San Juan and St. Thomas.

I understand they have a great kids program and are family friendly. They seem close to X in many areas and they do offer traditional OR anytime dining. We like traditional and that sealed the deal for us. Besides, I'm dying to try their fettucine ;) .

If you cruise with kids you won't find much sympathy on this Board. Most X cruisers would like to see no kids on any of the X ships. Their answer seems to always be... if you have kids, then sail RCL. Well, what if you have kids but want fine food, excellent service and the extra nice touches that X provides?? If you like Celebrity I would never steer you to NCL.

From my research, it seems that Princess offers the closest thing to the Celebrity experience with the kid friendly aspect to it. I could be wrong but I'm willing to try it. :)


thanks. i will look into the princess trip. i don't think a majority of X cruisers dislike kids on the ship, although a small and very vocal group exists on these boards. i have been on many cruises and love the treatment i receive on celebrity. i enjoyed disney for what it was and i will be going again in february. the kids LOVED disney. there is just something special about celebrity, especially the butler service. and contrary to a previous post, celebrity has catered to kids in the past. the millenium class ships have a great kids area and program. the century class ships have a smaller area dedicated, but the staff is great. finally, we are not parents who "dump" our children off at 9 and pick them up at midnight, and i realize that there are only 2 days at sea on the bermuda trip. however, children need some entertainment and an opportunity to socialize with other kids in an organized setting. my oldest son, 7, has been on 6 cruises and loved each one. he always asks to see our videos and photos we took on them and vividly recalls the nightly shows and great food. my middle guy who is 4 has been on 3 cruises and feels the same way. i am simply venting my disappointment that i won't be able to enjoy my favorite way to spend my vacation this summer.

[Charles4515]

Charles:

I did the summer sailings because I wanted to take my kids to Bermuda. After they were older went back in May without them and had a great time with just wife and myself.

By the way, except for the running down the halls knocking on the cabin doors, I saw all the other things you mentioned on the ship being done by adults in Public. Did see an adult who thought it was funny to hit all the elevator buttons so I guess those activites are not exclusive to children...

On older ships like Zenith or Century even though there are childrens programs there are limited or no childrens areas and no adults only pools. So when there are a large amount of children it can get out of hand. On newer ships like Crown Princess they have large childrens areas and the have some adults only pools. I think that makes a big difference. I expect the two new mega Celebrity ships being built will have wonderful childrens areas and probably some kind of adults only area. And with more ships Celebrity might come back to the northeast with summer sailings. The Journey and Quest are very small ships designed for exotic sailings. I don't think anyone should read into Celebrity's plans that they are not going to be kid friendly.

As far as Bermuda, I think the options for all are becoming more limited, not just for kids. Most of the ships that have called at Hamilton and St. George are will be gone after this summer. Zenith, Horizon, Empress, Crown will be gone.

[ocngypz]

thanks. i will look into the princess trip. i don't think a majority of X cruisers dislike kids on the ship, although a small and very vocal group exists on these boards. i have been on many cruises and love the treatment i receive on celebrity. i enjoyed disney for what it was and i will be going again in february. the kids LOVED disney. there is just something special about celebrity, especially the butler service. and contrary to a previous post, celebrity has catered to kids in the past. the millenium class ships have a great kids area and program. the century class ships have a smaller area dedicated, but the staff is great. finally, we are not parents who "dump" our children off at 9 and pick them up at midnight, and i realize that there are only 2 days at sea on the bermuda trip. however, children need some entertainment and an opportunity to socialize with other kids in an organized setting. my oldest son, 7, has been on 6 cruises and loved each one. he always asks to see our videos and photos we took on them and vividly recalls the nightly shows and great food. my middle guy who is 4 has been on 3 cruises and feels the same way. i am simply venting my disappointment that i won't be able to enjoy my favorite way to spend my vacation this summer.


The Crown Princess has no triples available this summer. Even double occupancy, the summer is just about sold out. I suggest you try the 9 night Explorer sailings out of Bayonne. Or NCL's Crown out of Manhattan to Bermuda.

[dakodacruiser]

I for one am a loyal Celebrity fan and I love to see family's on the ship's. This is what life is about. I am so impressed when I see family's with multiple generation's on a cruise . Why shouldn't they be on a Celebrity ship? To paraphrase another argument "it is their vacation too" You know when you see a misbehaved child it is not the child at fault. It is the parent at fault after all. I understand that some folks do not enjoy children as much as we do but they should avoid cruising during children's vacation times. Not make cruises adult only my heaven's that would be very sad indeed.

[ocngypz]

I for one am a loyal Celebrity fan and I love to see family's on the ship's. This is what life is about. I am so impressed when I see family's with multiple generation's on a cruise . Why shouldn't they be on a Celebrity ship? To paraphrase another argument "it is their vacation too" You know when you see a misbehaved child it is not the child at fault. It is the parent at fault after all. I understand that some folks do not enjoy children as much as we do but they should avoid cruising during children's vacation times. Not make cruises adult only my heaven's that would be very sad indeed.


The Xpedition, Journey and Quest are not family-oriented ships. They are called Xpedition Class vessels. With the exception of Bermuda, they feature more exotic itineraries, longer itineraries and more creature comforts to attract the ageing well-traveled boomer population. These are niche market ships.

[dkjretired]

On older ships like Zenith or Century even though there are childrens programs there are limited or no childrens areas and no adults only pools. So when there are a large amount of children it can get out of hand. On newer ships like Crown Princess they have large childrens areas and the have some adults only pools. I think that makes a big difference. I expect the two new mega Celebrity ships being built will have wonderful childrens areas and probably some kind of adults only area. And with more ships Celebrity might come back to the northeast with summer sailings. The Journey and Quest are very small ships designed for exotic sailings. I don't think anyone should read into Celebrity's plans that they are not going to be kid friendly.

As far as Bermuda, I think the options for all are becoming more limited, not just for kids. Most of the ships that have called at Hamilton and St. George are will be gone after this summer. Zenith, Horizon, Empress, Crown will be gone.

Zenith and Horizon did not have big dedicated areas as they were built as cruising was starting to become popular with families. Century had the first decent size childrens area and they have grown bigger as the ships got bigger. My kids were on Century about two months after she was came into service.

[Tatka]

I did one in July on Century and learned a lesson, don't book when the kids are out of school. Some of the teenagers were puking all over the ship and some were having sex on the outside decks late at night. Also the little kids were running up and down the halls all night knocking on cabin doors. Hmm. Maybe that is why Celebrity doesn't have summer Caribbean sailings anymore!

We are driving from Century cruise... our last Century cruise was in July 2003. We definitely didn't see any puking and teenage sex anywhere on the ship even though we were walking over the ship at night picking our son from teen club.

It was very classy trip and kids and teens were absolutely not a problem!

[Guienevere_Arianette]

Very true. That is why I avoided the July and August summer sailings to Bermuda. And the Celebrity summer sailings to the Caribbean too. I did one in July on Century and learned a lesson, don't book when the kids are out of school. Some of the teenagers were puking all over the ship and some were having sex on the outside decks late at night. Also the little kids were running up and down the halls all night knocking on cabin doors. Hmm. Maybe that is why Celebrity doesn't have summer Caribbean sailings anymore!

You're kidding, right? I didn't realize this happened on such an "upscale" line...is this common?

[JCDeck]

You're kidding, right? I didn't realize this happened on such an "upscale" line...is this common?

Very.

[Karynanne]

You're kidding, right? I didn't realize this happened on such an "upscale" line...is this common?

Being an "upscale" cruiseline really has nothing to do with children and teen's behavior. This could happen on any line...and probably does.

I like how Celebrity is targeting some of it's fleet as adult oriented. A few years ago, they had "Adults Only" cruises. Apparently this program wasn't successful, or they would have continued it...but my point is, that there are cruises for everyone's taste and lifestyle.

If Celebrity doesn't fit your needs, then RCL or another line may be a better choice.

Karyn

[Tatka]

You're kidding, right? I didn't realize this happened on such an "upscale" line...is this common?

It's still very much upscale line comparing to other massmarket lines we sailed on... Even on 5 day cruises. I wouldn't dare to sail 5-dayer on Carnival or even RCCL.

[JCDeck]

It's still very much upscale line comparing to other massmarket lines we sailed on... Even on 5 day cruises. I wouldn't dare to sail 5-dayer on Carnival or even RCCL.


Bingo.

[Bruin Steve]

This past summer, I cruised on the Oceania Nautica, a sister ship t the Quest and Journey...

Of course, Oceania had no kids program on these ships either...but there were some families with kids on board...I don't think I would have taken young kids...as you noted, there is nothing specifically aimed at them...

But I also really don't think it was as much Celebrity's choice as it is the nature and design ofthe ship itself and the economics involved...

The ship is only 30,000 gross tons--approximately one-third the size of the M-Class ships...it carries only around 700 passengers...

The "public areas" are equally down-scaled. The ships do not have a large "showroom", really only one medium-sized lounge--which houses whatever nightly entertainment there is. Thre is only a single pool up top...the rest of the public areas are the dining room, the buffet and two small "specilty restaurants" and a few small bars and a small casino...and a very small lobby/purser/shore excursion desk area...

You cannot delete any of the restaurants as the seating is needed to accommodate all 700 guests...You can't eliminate the casino--too big a profit center and a necessity for a lot of guests...the bars include a smallone outside the casino and one at the entrance to the dining room...

IOW, there's really nothing you can eliminate to replace it with a kids lounge or playroom...And there's little economic wisdom to dedicating any of the limited space to a specific use such as a childrens' area when, with only 700 passengers at a time and a fairly exotic itinerary, the chances of having any large group of kids to service are pretty low...And there's no way, as on some ships, to give them their own pool either...

I think the answer, for the corporation, is that they still have RCCL ships--under the same corporate umbrella-- which also go to Bermuda and still have kids programs...

[Charles4515]

We are driving from Century cruise... our last Century cruise was in July 2003. We definitely didn't see any puking and teenage sex anywhere on the ship even though we were walking over the ship at night picking our son from teen club.

It was very classy trip and kids and teens were absolutely not a problem!

For some reason the parents never see it :-)

I had never seen anything that extreame on a cruise before, and have not seen it since that sailing, which had over 600 kids on the ship. I was surprised because of Celebrity's classy reputation. Since I did not have any kids on board I took it as part of the entertainement but I was surprised that the parents let the kids have the run of the ships and seemed oblivious to what was happening. I think a lot of parents don't want to know but also those things probably happen when the number of children gets to a tipping point where the worst ones influence the others.

[Charles4515]

You're kidding, right? I didn't realize this happened on such an "upscale" line...is this common?

I am not kidding. I was quite surprised, it was unexpected, and it was an unforgetable cruise because of it.

[rebeccalouise]

On older ships like Zenith or Century even though there are childrens programs there are limited or no childrens areas and no adults only pools. So when there are a large amount of children it can get out of hand. On newer ships like Crown Princess they have large childrens areas and the have some adults only pools. I think that makes a big difference. I expect the two new mega Celebrity ships being built will have wonderful childrens areas and probably some kind of adults only area. And with more ships Celebrity might come back to the northeast with summer sailings. The Journey and Quest are very small ships designed for exotic sailings. I don't think anyone should read into Celebrity's plans that they are not going to be kid friendly.

As far as Bermuda, I think the options for all are becoming more limited, not just for kids. Most of the ships that have called at Hamilton and St. George are will be gone after this summer. Zenith, Horizon, Empress, Crown will be gone.

I know that Century does have a decided Fun Factory. It is located on one of the lower decks. There was always a Youth Program on Century and since the Refurbishment, Century actually doubled the size of the Fun Factory. I take note of these things as a parent.

I believe Quest and Journey are going to attract the same clinetelle that attracts Oceania. Many Celebrity fans won't jump ship and pay the prices for the Journey and Quest cruises. I know I won't. These ships are going to be small and intimate and offer a higher level of service- also more expensive drink and spa prices. They won't be for the faint of pocketbook.

Most of the passengers are going to be older on Quest and Journey and you probably will have plenty of free lounge chairs and an empty pool and hot tubs.

[Charles4515]

I know that Century does have a decided Fun Factory. It is located on one of the lower decks. There was always a Youth Program on Century and since the Refurbishment, Century actually doubled the size of the Fun Factory. I take note of these things as a parent.

I believe Quest and Journey are going to attract the same clinetelle that attracts Oceania. Many Celebrity fans won't jump ship and pay the prices for the Journey and Quest cruises. I know I won't. These ships are going to be small and intimate and offer a higher level of service- also more expensive drink and spa prices. They won't be for the faint of pocketbook.

Most of the passengers are going to be older on Quest and Journey and you probably will have plenty of free lounge chairs and an empty pool and hot tubs.

When I sailed on Century the children's area looked pretty small and limited. That was before the refurb. I don't think teens had a seperate place. The newer ships have a lot more youth areas. A ship like Crown Princess or Explorer of the Seas would be better for youth. These mega ships also have basketball and mini-golf, and on Royal, inline skating and rock climbing.

I have the Journey booked. It did not break my wallet. I did think it was going to be too expensive but it turned out we found a good deal. I doubt if the pool and hot tubs will be empty. I hope there are plenty of chairs. I am going with seven others who have cruised together before of varied ages, none of us is retired, and our little group includes a 13 year old.

[dkjretired]

I am not kidding. I was quite surprised, it was unexpected, and it was an unforgetable cruise because of it.

I saw it with adults, does that make it okay....

[Zenithfan]

On the Celebrity web site ( one of the worst. You can't find less information anywhere. ) there's not one mention that the youth program isn't available on any ship. Even Xpedition. If you read the youth program section, it gives the impression that all ships offer it. ( it only says pagers are not available on Century, Galaxy and Mercury.
This has to change. They need to put the information up there.

[dkjretired]

When I sailed on Century the children's area looked pretty small and limited. That was before the refurb. I don't think teens had a seperate place. The newer ships have a lot more youth areas. A ship like Crown Princess or Explorer of the Seas would be better for youth. These mega ships also have basketball and mini-golf, and on Royal, inline skating and rock climbing.

I have the Journey booked. It did not break my wallet. I did think it was going to be too expensive but it turned out we found a good deal. I doubt if the pool and hot tubs will be empty. I hope there are plenty of chairs. I am going with seven others who have cruised together before of varied ages, none of us is retired, and our little group includes a 13 year old.

Century was the first Celebrity ship to have a purpose built childrens area. I remember going to the preview in NYC prior to her sailing in the Caribbean and they were very proud of the childrens areas. It was one of the biggest at the time the ship was built. They had the Sony games as Sony was one of the first named sponsors I saw on a ship. They also had basketball courts at the back of the ship.

[Charles4515]

I saw it with adults, does that make it okay....

I never saw it with adults onboard but I did not expect to see teens doing that onboard in public, even though you know that teens may be doing that in private. It was startling. I would not expect to see adults doing it in public either but it would be a different reaction.

[Charles4515]

On the Celebrity web site ( one of the worst. You can't find less information anywhere. ) there's not one mention that the youth program isn't available on any ship. Even Xpedition. If you read the youth program section, it gives the impression that all ships offer it. ( it only says pagers are not available on Century, Galaxy and Mercury.
This has to change. They need to put the information up there.

They certainly have created some ambiguity about these ships. I really do think a lot will not be clarified until after the first few sailings. And some of that will probably be changed. I think it is pretty good conjecture if you consider the small size of the ships, the history of the ships, and look at the deck plans, that there is not going to be much of a youth program. Even the adult activities are going to be limited compared to larger ships.

[JCDeck]

I never saw it with adults onboard but I did not expect to see teens doing that onboard in public, even though you know that teens may be doing that in private. It was startling. I would not expect to see adults doing it in public either but it would be a different reaction.

Man, I must be going on all the wrong cruises...I never saw any sex out in the ship. What gives? These obviously must be special cruises. Everybody is seeing it, Teens, young people, old people, whoever.. Does Celebrity advertise these?

[Tatka]

IMHO, if you don't want to see kids or teens in common areas - make larger youth areas, but limit booking with kids. That what Princess does. We sailed on Caribbean Princess with 3100 pax double occupancy and hardly saw any kids ( I think there was around 400-500). There was huge facilities for kids, even with own pools. Teens had their own place and events up to 1 am!

On Century everything ended for the teens at 11 pm... :(

[lvz2cruz]

Celebrity is our favorite cruiseline and for years we have not even looked at other lines. With the loss of Horizon and Zenith, we are trying NCL Majesty to Bermuda. I am going expecting to have a great time, knowing it will not be the Celebrity experience I know and love.
We have 3 children who have cruised with us all but once. We all love X and are not interested in RCL, Carnival, etc. We probably love X for the same reasons those without kids do and avoid the other lines for the same reasons.

[ocngypz]

IMHO, if you don't want to see kids or teens in common areas - make larger youth areas, but limit booking with kids. That what Princess does. We sailed on Caribbean Princess with 3100 pax double occupancy and hardly saw any kids ( I think there was around 400-500). There was huge facilities for kids, even with own pools. Teens had their own place and events up to 1 am!

On Century everything ended for the teens at 11 pm... :(

BINGO: And that's the difference between cruiselines which CATER to families and those that don't.

Sometimes it's as simple as looking at the deck plans.

[Charles4515]

Celebrity is our favorite cruiseline and for years we have not even looked at other lines. With the loss of Horizon and Zenith, we are trying NCL Majesty to Bermuda. I am going expecting to have a great time, knowing it will not be the Celebrity experience I know and love.
We have 3 children who have cruised with us all but once. We all love X and are not interested in RCL, Carnival, etc. We probably love X for the same reasons those without kids do and avoid the other lines for the same reasons.

Loving a cruise line is a mistake.

[rebeccalouise]

I did the Majesty ( athree night in 2000) and loved it. It was a nice little ship with a good layout. The diningroom food was excellent IMO. I don't recall not liking any aspect of that cruise. My group of ten had a fantastic time.
We had a suite and it was really nice. If you are traveling with kids. Get a suite. It was really worth it.

[rebeccalouise]

When I sailed on Century the children's area looked pretty small and limited. That was before the refurb. I don't think teens had a seperate place. The newer ships have a lot more youth areas. A ship like Crown Princess or Explorer of the Seas would be better for youth. These mega ships also have basketball and mini-golf, and on Royal, inline skating and rock climbing.

I have the Journey booked. It did not break my wallet. I did think it was going to be too expensive but it turned out we found a good deal. I doubt if the pool and hot tubs will be empty. I hope there are plenty of chairs. I am going with seven others who have cruised together before of varied ages, none of us is retired, and our little group includes a 13 year old.
My tablemates had a 9 year old on Constellation last year. She was a little shy about going to the Fun Factory. On day 3 of our 12 night Caribbean cruise, she finally bit the bullet and went- SHE HAD A BLAST! The older kids on Celebrity don't just hang out in the Fun Factory. They go to the Disco and Dance. They go to the Theatre during the day and meet the dancers and performers. They do scavenger hunts all over the ship. Celebrity realises that this age group (7-9) isn't going to be content to play and color. They make it action- packed with Basketball, Pingpong, etc. etc.
So don't under-estimate Celebrity. As for teens, I can't speak to that. My older son stopped wanting to cruise when he was 16 and frankly, I think older kids tend to get into more trouble on cruises. So I am thankful that he has abandoned ship.

[Tatka]

BINGO: And that's the difference between cruiselines which CATER to families and those that don't.

Sometimes it's as simple as looking at the deck plans.

Well, then Celebrity should do something about limiting number of children/kids, because it does advertise wonderful experience for all ages. Not all cruisers are that savvy to understand the difference. ;) It's even more difficult for parents whose kids loved kids club and are not aware of lack of facilities for the teens. :(

[rebeccalouise]

Journey is too expensive to bother taking the kids. Do a different line. I have done Oceania Regatta (sister ship to the Journey) and it is nice, good food, service, etc. but for the approximately $ 6000- 10000 depending on accommodations,
You can stay at a five star resort for seven nights with meals and airfare for $ 5500 ( for family of four).

[dakodacruiser]

The Xpedition, Journey and Quest are not family-oriented ships. They are called Xpedition Class vessels. With the exception of Bermuda, they feature more exotic itineraries, longer itineraries and more creature comforts to attract the ageing well-traveled boomer population. These are niche market ships.
I was not refering to specific ship's, however the OP did say that Bermuda was a kid friendly port and thus wished to bring children to it. When our children were small, cruised as a family vacation. That did not mean that we sent our boy's off to be watched by someone else during the day. We spent the time as a family. We enjoyed daytime, evening and port times together as well as our meals. Not all parent's let their children run wild. I have seen some pretty awful behavior from adults that would rank right up there with wild teen behavior.

[dakodacruiser]

The Xpedition, Journey and Quest are not family-oriented ships. They are called Xpedition Class vessels. With the exception of Bermuda, they feature more exotic itineraries, longer itineraries and more creature comforts to attract the ageing well-traveled boomer population. These are niche market ships.
I was not refering to specific ship's, however the OP did say that Bermuda was a kid friendly port and thus wished to bring children to it. When our children were small, we cruised as a family vacation. That did not mean that we sent our children off to be watched by someone else during the day. We spent the time as a family. We enjoyed daytime, evening and port times together as well as our meals. Not all parent's let their children run wild. I have seen some pretty awful behavior from adults that would rank right up there with wild teen behavior.

[bububr]

Just a couple of points IMHO:

1. The X website should be updated, just like it was with the new alcohol policies it did take some time. However, X has NEVER had childrens facilities on its expedition class ships. Parents should do some research before booking regardless of what the website says.

2. X HAS NEVER advertised itself as a family vacation. Common sense, look at the website and ads...how many pictures of families and children do you see? I don't see any. Of course in the sub menus there are links to their childrens program which is more of a courtesy than an annemity. The childrens programs are limited and in small areas of the ship. There are no waterparks, rock walls, ice rinks, seperate kids pools. etc....Being said, X is NOT going to disallow families from cruising. It would be bad for business. Just as X does not ADVERTISE itself as a special needs cruise, it does offer ammenties to those with dietary conditions or physical imparements...they are COURTESIES.

3. Parents need to make the right choices. NOT EVERYTHING is kid friendly, or nor should it be. The cruiselines have everyright to set rules and standards. Someone mentioned that X's teen program shuts down earlier, and is limited...this is a clue, not a mistake on their part. What Don says is true, X does have some excellent activities for children, but if it was advertising to families...why wouldn't these things be in the front page of their website like RCCL, Carnival and others? Simply because they want to keep it MORE ADULT. They are NOT discriminating, they are simply setting their standards and laying a boundry.

4. I have NEVER found Bermuda to be KID FRIENDLY. I have found it to be kid tolerant. Maybe it has changed over the past couple of years, But I have found it to be more of a honeymoon type destination than anything else.

5. I don't know what has happened to parents, but as a kid, my parents chose vacations that kept us occupied, even if they had limited adult activities. They also travelled without us untill we were old enough to appreciate trips. We weren't treated as accessories like most parents treat their children now. They sacrificed their vacations, and time for us.

6. This post was NOT about adults acting badly, as it has been mentioned, or kids acting badly either. It was about X not offering childrens programs on their newly aquired ships. And while some parents may be in an uproar, There is nothing wrong with X limiting or not offering childrens programs on a couple of its vessels. X has plenty of ships that do offer this service, and their are plenty of us who look for LESS children onboard so they are simply filling a niche that parents SHOULD understand, and not get bent out of shape over. Not everyone thinks your kids are little angels. It's not an anti-child thing, it a pro-adult experience one. And X ADVERTISES itself as pro-adult experience, with childrens ammenties as a courtesy, not the other way around.

Dave:eek:

[Charles4515]

I was not refering to specific ship's, however the OP did say that Bermuda was a kid friendly port and thus wished to bring children to it. When our children were small, we cruised as a family vacation. That did not mean that we sent our children off to be watched by someone else during the day. We spent the time as a family. We enjoyed daytime, evening and port times together as well as our meals. Not all parent's let their children run wild. I have seen some pretty awful behavior from adults that would rank right up there with wild teen behavior.

Bermuda is not particulary kid friendly, it just so happens that the prime season for Bermuda is in the summer when school is out.

There is nothing to stop people from bringing their children to Bermuda on the Journey. Some say they don't want to spend the money to take them on Journey. That to me is a personal problem. You make the choice. There are other ships than the Journey, this year still the Crown, Empress, Majesty, and also the Explorer and Grandeur.

No they are not Celebrity, but you can't always have what you want. I personaly was quite happy going on the Zenith every year even though they had let it run down some and would prefer they kept the Zenith for Bermuda over the Journey, which I have booked anyway. Looks like I might also do a 5 day on the Explorer. I have done Voyager class ships and they are great ships. They are a different experience than Celebrity, but every sailing on them has been a great cruise experience.

[Charles4515]

Just a couple of points IMHO:

6. This post was NOT about adults acting badly, as it has been mentioned, or kids acting badly either. It was about X not offering childrens programs on their newly aquired ships. And while some parents may be in an uproar, There is nothing wrong with X limiting or not offering childrens programs on a couple of its vessels. X has plenty of ships that do offer this service, and their are plenty of us who look for LESS children onboard so they are simply filling a niche that parents SHOULD understand, and not get bent out of shape over. Not everyone thinks your kids are little angels. It's not an anti-child thing, it a pro-adult experience one. And X ADVERTISES itself as pro-adult experience, with childrens ammenties as a courtesy, not the other way around.

Dave:eek:

I think you are getting carried away with this idea that X is a pro-adult experience but it is not like there are not plenty of other vessels sailing to Bermuda that are more children friendly. Besides the other cruise lines, RCI which owns Celebrity has three this year, Empress, Explorer and Grandeur. We are talking about one little ship which might only be doing Bermuda this year to satisfy Celebrity's contract with Bermuda.

[dkjretired]

Just a couple of points IMHO:

1. The X website should be updated, just like it was with the new alcohol policies it did take some time. However, X has NEVER had childrens facilities on its expedition class ships. Parents should do some research before booking regardless of what the website says.

Dave:eek:

What about the parents who did just that and booked the Zenith with childrens facilities and programs only to be switched. They then switched to the new ship and were told after the switch they would not have children's programs. I think Celebrity should have the programs on the Bermuda run this year for that reason....


As to your other points, I beg to differ on many of them.....

[Charles4515]

Not all parent's let their children run wild. I have seen some pretty awful behavior from adults that would rank right up there with wild teen behavior.

I have heard this a lot from parents about adults but on all my cruises I have never seen adults behaving as badly as some of the kids. Besides the one cruise I have been on with children run wild I have seen kids heckling the singers because they did not like their songs, running around the theater during the show in the show lounge, screaming in the buffet, treating the hot tubs as pools and diving in no less, invading adults only pool areas. Many parents take them on a ship and let them loose. Children are in the process of learning and many are still learning social skills so it is a given they will act childish. I would not expect otherwise.

[Charles4515]

What about the parents who did just that and booked the Zenith with childrens facilities and programs only to be switched. They then switched to the new ship and were told after the switch they would not have children's programs. I think Celebrity should have the programs on the Bermuda run this year for that reason....


As to your other points, I beg to differ on many of them.....

This question has been addressed. It is a small ship, not designed for childrens facilities and programs. It is not even designed for many adult activities and amenities many are used too. It is designed for exotic destinations.

[bububr]

Okay I agree to disagree:)

In my opinion, and it may not seem fair to all, But X only is really responsible for an apology to those who were expecting the kids club to be onboard, and quite possibly a no strings refund for those with children who want to opt out.

The bottom line is that Celebrity reserves the right to change any of its policies at any time. We saw this with the raising of the minumun drinking age to 21. Those who had booked and thought they could drink beer and wine at 18 during the policy change period were owed nothing more than an apology, or a refund if they wanted to opt out as I see it.

I do feel for the families that planned far in advance to be stuck like this, but things do happen, whether we like them or not. Part of cruising is rolling with the punches so to speak. Itineraries cancelled due to ????, ports missed due to ???, Etc......

I also feel for the passengers who were expecting FEWER children, and the ones that were onboard to be occupied by the kids club. THe other side of the coin is for the few sailings that were pre-booked with children, they will have far fewer things to keep them occupied and will most likely be more underfoot.

Dave:eek:

[tarheelmjfan]

Apparently, the term "kid friendly" has many meanings. It depends largely on the kid in question. Like many others Celebrity's itineraries aren't working for us this year. We're forced to look elsewhere. My DH & I were considering trying a Carnival cruise, because it leaves from our home port. It was our 15 yr. old son who said "no" to Carnival. Believe it or not, all kids don't like to party & run wild. (Not that that's all Carnival is about.) For this same reason, switching to RCCL isn't the answer for everyone. We looked into that not too long ago, & weren't that impressed. The things we enjoy most about X are the service & dining experience. Our son included. I read many negative reviews about both on RCCL. Johnny Rockets is a specialty restaurant for goodness sake. I don't eat at JR in the mall. My son doesn't want to climb a rock wall, or stand in line with a hundred + of his closest "new" friends for a couple minutes of surfing. If he wants to surf, we live in FL. There's plenty of places to take lessons.

I really think that Celebrity seems to be in a lose, lose situation. They have many passengers who want more varied destinations. It seems they've pretty much abandoned the East Coast for most of the year in order to meet those needs. Hopefully, the new ships will help with that. Then there's those who don't want kids onboard. With the new destinations, & ships that don't cater to kids, they're forcing many families to look elsewhere. Many couples who still work don't have the time to commit to the new itineraries. I can see them catering to the older clientele who now has the time for multiple longer cruises throughout the year. The problem is, these families & younger couples are now looking elsewhere. Most of us are creatures of habit. If the parents & post-baby boomers find another cruise line they like, odds are they'll stick with it. That's why they offer loyality programs. In the future, Celebrity may be in the position of depending largely on 1st time passengers, once those who are now seniors are no long cruising.

[dkjretired]

Okay I agree to disagree:)

In my opinion, and it may not seem fair to all, But X only is really responsible for an apology to those who were expecting the kids club to be onboard, and quite possibly a no strings refund for those with children who want to opt out.

The bottom line is that Celebrity reserves the right to change any of its policies at any time. We saw this with the raising of the minumun drinking age to 21. Those who had booked and thought they could drink beer and wine at 18 during the policy change period were owed nothing more than an apology, or a refund if they wanted to opt out as I see it.

I do feel for the families that planned far in advance to be stuck like this, but things do happen, whether we like them or not. Part of cruising is rolling with the punches so to speak. Itineraries cancelled due to ????, ports missed due to ???, Etc......

I also feel for the passengers who were expecting FEWER children, and the ones that were onboard to be occupied by the kids club. THe other side of the coin is for the few sailings that were pre-booked with children, they will have far fewer things to keep them occupied and will most likely be more underfoot.

Dave:eek:

Hi Dave:

I guess they can always just refer to the contract, it covers so many things. I also agree to disagree as you make your points well without getting personal. I am just a little prejudice since my kids are adults now and we had so much fun on the Celebrity ships and with their programs as they grew up. I always insisted they eat dinner with us and they went on many shore excursions with us, can't remember ever leaving them on the ship alone while we were off doing something.

[Charles4515]

I really think that Celebrity seems to be in a lose, lose situation. They have many passengers who want more varied destinations. It seems they've pretty much abandoned the East Coast for most of the year in order to meet those needs. Hopefully, the new ships will help with that.

You are looking at Celebrity as if it were a stand alone cruise line. It is a brand of a larger entity Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. The company has many destinations covered and do sail from the east coast. They have also tied their loyalty programs together. With two brands it is to be expected there would be differentiation as to who they are marketed too. Otherwise they would combine the brands. Celebrity is more laid back, more pampering, better dinin . Royal Caribbean is more active, more family orientated. I would think that it is win win for RCCL that they are diversified and maintain the two brands as distinct.

[tarheelmjfan]

You are looking at Celebrity as if it were a stand alone cruise line. It is a brand of a larger entity Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. The company has many destinations covered and do sail from the east coast. They have also tied their loyalty programs together. With two brands it is to be expected there would be differentiation as to who they are marketed too. Otherwise they would combine the brands. Celebrity is more laid back, more pampering, better dinin . Royal Caribbean is more active, more family orientated. I would think that it is win win for RCCL that they are diversified and maintain the two brands as distinct.


I suppose it's how you look at it. I do see X as a stand alone line. As you noted, the 2 brands are distinct. Just because you enjoy the experience on one of the lines, doesn't necessarily mean you'll love the other. If you're a family who loves X, you probably aren't going to be that crazy about RCCL. They are very different. I'm puzzled why people keep suggesting families sail on RCCL, without taking their interests into account. That's like a couple saying they really wanted to go to Las Vegas, but all the hotels were full, then everyone suggests they go to Disneyland instead. If they wanted to go to DL, they probably would have thought of that themselves.

[bububr]

I think you make a good point.

I almost see it as 3 lines though.

1. RCCL- Parent company. Advertises to families, promotes family vacations, ships are family friendly with a higher energy atmosphere.

2. Celebrity - more laid back, more adults, few to no recreational venues ( rock climbing, skating, onboard waterparks, etc..), No trendy commercial dining venues ( Ben & Jerrys, Johnny Rockets, Seattles Best...etc ), More formal dress codes.

3. Celebrity Xpeditions - smaller ships with fewer smaller ammenities. Longer and more exotic itineraries, no kids club venues, more of an adventure than just a cruise. Country club casual dress codes, Etc...

So the RCL corporation is trying to grab all of these demographics in my opinion.

Dave:eek:

[Charles4515]

I suppose it's how you look at it. I do see X as a stand alone line. As you noted, the 2 brands are distinct. Just because you enjoy the experience on one of the lines, doesn't necessarily mean you'll love the other. If you're a family who loves X, you probably aren't going to be that crazy about RCCL. They are very different. I'm puzzled why people keep suggesting families sail on RCCL, without taking their interests into account. That's like a couple saying they really wanted to go to Las Vegas, but all the hotels were full, then everyone suggests they go to Disneyland instead. If they wanted to go to DL, they probably would have thought of that themselves.

They are distinct but not all that different. It is a matter of emphasis. It is not like the difference between Las Vegas and Disney. From my standpoint I like to vary things and I like both lines and sail on both lines cause I would get bored with the same old same old. (although I sure go to Bermuda a lot!) But I don't love Celebrity or Royal. I love cruises. The company is only a business out to make a profit for investors. Along the way to doing that they have to satisfy customers but only to the extent we keep buying and at a high enough per diem. They considered their bottom line and transfered Zenith and brought in Journey cause they think it will be more profitable. My personal preference not having done Journey yet, would have been for them to renovate Zenith and leave it with Celebrity. But they made a business decision. That is what they do.

Right now I have two Celebrity's booked and one Royal Caribbean and will probably have another Royal booked in a few days. I have usually had a wonderful time on both. Probably the cruise that did not work out the most on Celebrity was the one with 600 kids yet i have been on Royal and Princess when there were 600 kids and those were wonderful cruises, probably because the kids did not get bored, so they did not run amok.

[Karynanne]

Dave, I agree with assesment of there being 3 separate lines.

Since we cruise often, we're asked by friends and family our opinion of what cruiseline we'd suggest for them, according to what their family needs are.

We always say that RCCL is more "children" oriented. Just view their commercials on T.V. You definately get the impression that this is a cruise loaded with "active" venues.

Celebrity's commercials convey a more elegant, pampered atmosphere. Massages, fine food, relaxation, etc.

I have always felt that even though there are "children" services provided on Celebrity...it is a courtesy, and not the main focus of this line.

I'm very pleased that Celebrity is adding a smaller fleet of ships. We have wanted to sail on that size ship, and now will get an opportunity. We now we have 5 cruises booked for the next 18 months, almost all of them will probably not have many children, due to it's itinerary and length.

Karyn

[dkjretired]

It will be interesting to see what Celebrity does to Bermuda in 2008 and beyond. There is just something nice about docking in Hamilton and St. George but Bermuda is making changes also so I guess we will just have to see how it plays out.

[Charles4515]

I think you make a good point.

I almost see it as 3 lines though.

Dave:eek:

Yes, I can go with seeing it as three lines. With only two ships it makes sense for them start it as a sub brand of Celebrity. If it takes off and they add more small ships in the future they possibly would seperate it out from the Celebrity brand. If they had succeded in buying Oceania as they tried to do I am sure they would have had three brands.

[Sky Sweet]

I personally think that children add a special vitality to any environment, including cruises, providing that they are well behaved and considerate of others.

[Charles4515]

I personally think that children add a special vitality to any environment, including cruises, providing that they are well behaved and considerate of others.

I agree, although I expect children are learning so there will be some who are not well behaved. A little of that does not bother me. I have never tried to book an adults only cruise. However I try to avoid extremes, like cruises with 600 kids, cruises with 600 college students, cruises with 600 80 year olds, 600 amway salespeople, cruises with 600 Mah Jhong players or 600 Harley bikers where one group dominates. I like diversity.

[gillianrose]

I really think that Celebrity seems to be in a lose, lose situation. They have many passengers who want more varied destinations. It seems they've pretty much abandoned the East Coast for most of the year in order to meet those needs.

I'm all for more varied destinations—and we are booked on several but hey, they've pretty much abandoned our favorite departure port on the WEST coast, too, i.e. San Francisco. The Mercury is only here for short, seasonal repositioning cruises, and to San Francisco Drydock for refurbishment. We would really like to cruise round-trip from San Francisco to southern destinations (we love Mexico) on the Mercury, but that doesn't appear to be in the cards in the near future, at least.

[Sky Sweet]

I agree, although I expect children are learning so there will be some who are not well behaved. A little of that does not bother me. I have never tried to book an adults only cruise. However I try to avoid extremes, like cruises with 600 kids, cruises with 600 college students, cruises with 600 80 year olds, 600 amway salespeople, cruises with 600 Mah Jhong players or 600 Harley bikers where one group dominates. I like diversity.

Hi Charles4515 :)

I agree with you about diversity. One of the reasons why I like Thanksgiving Cruises is because they have a tendency to include three generations of a family.

[Karynanne]

I'm all for more varied destinations—and we are booked on several but hey, they've pretty much abandoned our favorite departure port on the WEST coast, too, i.e. San Francisco. The Mercury is only here for short, seasonal repositioning cruises, and to San Francisco Drydock for refurbishment. We would really like to cruise round-trip from San Francisco to southern destinations (we love Mexico) on the Mercury, but that doesn't appear to be in the cards in the near future, at least.

Even though San Francisco is our home port, and we've taken advantage of sailing on various itineraries...we're very pleased that Celebrity has expanded it's destinations. We've always wanted to see Australia/New Zealand and Tahiti, and were really excited when Celebrity added these new countries.

Hopefully in the next couple of years, Celebrity will add Mexico back into schedule. In the meantime, I'd suggest writing and emailing them with your wishes.

Karyn

[rcicruiser]

My kind of cruise no kids

[vicgiz]

I'm puzzled why people keep suggesting families sail on RCCL, without taking their interests into account.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I suggested RCCL because the OP stated, "To make matters worse, I can't find any available cabins on other lines for August. I need a cruise!!!!" I was trying to be helpful and find another cruise to Bermuda from the northern half of the East Coast.

[rebeccalouise]

Celebrity does not offer Caribbean cruises in the summer- that is true. However, they do offer Alaskan cruises and they are the best summer cruises. I have been on four. I highly recommend them.

As for kids on Celebrity. Celebrity realizes that by having a great youth program- there aren't many kids running around the ship. I know this to be true. On one cruise, the other passengers pointed to a child (not even mine- mine was in the Fun Factory at the time) and said to her friends- look there is a child!!!

On that sailing there were 300 children on board.

[BrooklynGirl2]

I beg to differ that Bermuda is not a kid-friendly destination. Why do you say that because it has no huge amusement parks?

Bermuda has a zoo and aquarium, an underwater exploration museum with a simulated dive cage and lots of fun exhibits, Dolphin Quest, horse and buggy rides, beautiful beaches to explore, forts to investigate, a replica of the Deliverance ship to check out, the town dunking in St. George to watch, the stockades in St. George to pose in and take pictures, ferry rides, glass bottom boats, Lighthouses to climb....

We've been to Bermuda on Zenith 4 times in the last 2 years and my young son loved it there. We are looking forward to going back this summer on the Crown Princess. It sure beats the Jersey shore ;)

[jmsevens]

These were copied from Celebrities web site today. They clearly state there will be children's programs onboard "ALL Celebrity ships". You can't blame a guest for expecting what they were promised. No exceptions are listed. A youth facility is different from a youth program.

All Celebrity ships carry a minimum of 6 Youth Counselors year round. except Zenith which has four. During holiday sailings, Celebrity ships carry 8-12 Youth Counselors.
Celebrity's Five-Tier Family Program is available all year round.

Availability:
The Celebrity Youth Program is available year round with a full, five-tier age group program during President's Week, Easter, Summer, Thanksgiving, and Christmas sailings. On all other sailings, a combined age group program is offered.

[bububr]

Disclaimers
The Company has used reasonable efforts in collecting, preparing and providing quality information and material, but does not warrant or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to this Web site or any other Company Web Site. Users of information from this Web site or any other Company Web Site or links do so at their own risk. We assume no liability or responsibility for any errors or omissions in the content of any Company Web Site. While the Company may make changes to the information in a Company Web Site or to any Company service or product at any time without notice, the Company makes no commitment to update the information on a Company Web Site.

As I said, an apology would be nice, a refund if there is an opt out would be nicer, but they are NOT liable

Dave:eek:

[florisdekort]

These were copied from Celebrities web site today. They clearly state there will be children's programs onboard "ALL Celebrity ships".

Celebrity considers XPeditions to be a different brand. Journey and Quest are being positioned as 'additions to the XPeditions fleet'.

Floris

[pilewski]

These were copied from Celebrities web site today. They clearly state there will be children's programs onboard "ALL Celebrity ships". You can't blame a guest for expecting what they were promised. No exceptions are listed. A youth facility is different from a youth program.

All Celebrity ships carry a minimum of 6 Youth Counselors year round. except Zenith which has four. During holiday sailings, Celebrity ships carry 8-12 Youth Counselors.
Celebrity's Five-Tier Family Program is available all year round.

Availability:
The Celebrity Youth Program is available year round with a full, five-tier age group program during President's Week, Easter, Summer, Thanksgiving, and Christmas sailings. On all other sailings, a combined age group program is offered.

i read the same thing back to a celebrity agent on the phone and they did not know how to respond. i've gotten several different responses from celebrity but i think the final answer is NO. i may, however, still go with the kids. we just love bermuda so much (VERY KID FRIENDLY, BTW), and i am sure that the kids will do just fine. they love going out to restaurants for dinner and they love being on vacation. they know they are not going on disney this time and i think it will be fine. as i said in a previous post, we do not dump our kids in the program from dawn to midnight, not even on disney. if there were any suites left on rcl or princess, i would have cancelled the X reservation and switched, but nothing is available, ANYWHERE!
on another poiint, i wonder what extra benefits come with the suite on journey since all cabins get a butler.

[Charles4515]

Celebrity considers XPeditions to be a different brand. Journey and Quest are being positioned as 'additions to the XPeditions fleet'.

Floris

It is not clear on the web site that they are in Xpededitions or in a seperate brand.

[dkjretired]

It is not clear on the web site that they are in Xpededitions or in a seperate brand.


They now have it listed as Journey class ships when it used to be under Xpeditions. Below is a link to the original press release which should clarify their Journey and Quest classifications...

http://www.celebritycruises.com/aboutceleb/pressDetails.do;jsessionid=0000NXUn-_uSw5y65VuR2Y0M5T8:1028etqv2?pagename=press_room_d etails&event_date=2006-12-14&event_type=press_release&sequence_code=A

[JCDeck]

When I took my 2 children to Bermuda, I found it to definately Not be kid friendly, like other places, at all.

[rebeccalouise]

Have fun on your cruise. The ship is going to act as a hotel for you and your family. Most of your time you will probably be off the ship.

I would do a resort instead of the Journey under the circumstances but that doesn't mean you won't have a good time.

[bububr]

The ships listing on the website is by size. nothing more.

They put the Century with Mercury and Galaxy, The Millie, Connie, Infinity and Summit together, Horizon was with Zenith.

The Xpedition is the smallest ship in the fleet, now being joined by Journey and Quest which are about 5 times bigger.

If you look at the site the Xpedition is listed first with the other 2 beneath it. Although they are larger ships, they will be part of this group doing the exotics.

So its still three distinct classes, just one with a small ship and two slightly larger ones.

Dave:eek:

[joelmarj]

My preference of cruise lines is Celebrity and it is specifically because of the overall ambiance and experience, which IMO includes a very small number of children. It's just part of a more "low-key" cruise experience. When my SO and I travel, Celebrity is our line of choice.

Now, let me also tell you that I have two sons and love to take them on cruises. However I specifically DO NOT book them on Celebrity. I look towards RCCL for those cruises as again IMHO it is geared more towards the kids. Quite frankly, my kids would be bored on Celebrity. When booking a family vacation, to me its more important that there are a variety of things for my kids to do that they will enjoy and find fun. Things like mini-golf, rock walls and ice skating not to mention meeting other teens their age is far more interesting to them then the more reserve environment of Celebrity.

I am aware that Celebrity does have some kids programs, but quite frankly those to me are geared more towards younger children and really are meant as a distraction so the parents have free time. I do believe that Celebrity caters more towards an adult atmosphere and provides Childrens activities as an amenity, as opposed to RCCL that clearly through it's marketing targets their ships as the destination for kids and families. For my kids, I want the ship to be part of the experience and adventure.

It's all personal opinions, and just as I would never select a ship that has "anytime dining", its the same for those that want kids activities. There is a line out there for everyone, and it's not just one size fits all. I struggle with those that feel it is required that every ship tries to meet every customers need. It's just not going to happen.

[JCDeck]

My preference of cruise lines is Celebrity and it is specifically because of the overall ambiance and experience, which IMO includes a very small number of children. It's just part of a more "low-key" cruise experience. When my SO and I travel, Celebrity is our line of choice.

Now, let me also tell you that I have two sons and love to take them on cruises. However I specifically DO NOT book them on Celebrity. I look towards RCCL for those cruises as again IMHO it is geared more towards the kids. Quite frankly, my kids would be bored on Celebrity. When booking a family vacation, to me its more important that there are a variety of things for my kids to do that they will enjoy and find fun. Things like mini-golf, rock walls and ice skating not to mention meeting other teens their age is far more interesting to them then the more reserve environment of Celebrity.

I am aware that Celebrity does have some kids programs, but quite frankly those to me are geared more towards younger children and really are meant as a distraction so the parents have free time. I do believe that Celebrity caters more towards an adult atmosphere and provides Childrens activities as an amenity, as opposed to RCCL that clearly through it's marketing targets their ships as the destination for kids and families. For my kids, I want the ship to be part of the experience and adventure.

It's all personal opinions, and just as I would never select a ship that has "anytime dining", its the same for those that want kids activities. There is a line out there for everyone, and it's not just one size fits all. I struggle with those that feel it is required that every ship tries to meet every customers need. It's just not going to happen.


Well said.

[bububr]

"
My preference of cruise lines is Celebrity and it is specifically because of the overall ambiance and experience, which IMO includes a very small number of children. It's just part of a more "low-key" cruise experience. When my SO and I travel, Celebrity is our line of choice.

Now, let me also tell you that I have two sons and love to take them on cruises. However I specifically DO NOT book them on Celebrity. I look towards RCCL for those cruises as again IMHO it is geared more towards the kids. Quite frankly, my kids would be bored on Celebrity. When booking a family vacation, to me its more important that there are a variety of things for my kids to do that they will enjoy and find fun. Things like mini-golf, rock walls and ice skating not to mention meeting other teens their age is far more interesting to them then the more reserve environment of Celebrity.

I am aware that Celebrity does have some kids programs, but quite frankly those to me are geared more towards younger children and really are meant as a distraction so the parents have free time. I do believe that Celebrity caters more towards an adult atmosphere and provides Childrens activities as an amenity, as opposed to RCCL that clearly through it's marketing targets their ships as the destination for kids and families. For my kids, I want the ship to be part of the experience and adventure.

It's all personal opinions, and just as I would never select a ship that has "anytime dining", its the same for those that want kids activities. There is a line out there for everyone, and it's not just one size fits all. I struggle with those that feel it is required that every ship tries to meet every customers need. It's just not going to happen.
__________________
:o Wanna Cruise/AKA Marj"


BRAVO!!!!!!!!

Dave:eek:

[Onessa]

As is the case in most industries, the cruise industry is trying to appeal to everyone and in doing so ends up appealing to no one. The way to make the most money (not just a healthy profit, but the most money) is to sail huge ships with the most variety of non-stop entertainment. So all cruiselines are buying and building bigger ships and trying to top other lines with their gimmicks.

Others have noted that the the Xpedition, Journey and Quest are smaller ships that tend toward itineraries with more exotic ports that appeal to a very specific market.

I think not only families will be disappointed with the Journey, but many other seasoned cruisers who are vacationing for the "cruise experience" more than for the ports will also be let down by a cruise on any of these ships.

We've cruised the smaller ships (before our DD and with her) - we cruise primarily for the ports. While DD really likes the kids programs, she hasn't minded the smaller ships without kids programs because of the itinerary (who wants to play ga-ga ball with the counselors when you can snorkel in the Galapogas Islands?!).

That being said - a trip to Bermuda with sea days to and from, I'm not certain this class of ship will be able to 'entertain' many of the adult pax. It is a more "laid back" atmosphere that some will enjoy, but others will be disappointed.

I applaud X for maintaining these ships and for offering the iteneraries that these ships normally sail. I do question the Bermuda sailings (particuarly since they are not offering any sailings on any of their more mainstream ships on these itineraries). X should be marketing these ships and their itineraries as a boutique offering and pushing them as a subbrand so that pax really understand what they are getting.

[Blazerboy]

I have to laugh at this thread! :D

I just went out to dinner last night to celebrate my in-laws' 40th anniversary. My SIL brought her two kids, 2 and 4, and they behaved as most 2 and 4 year olds do. Not attrocious, not well. My partner kept harping on the fact that his sister should have gotten a baby sitter. She ignored that, and kept harping on the fact that the restaurant wasn't very "kid friendly." The grandparents just said they wanted the whole family together, wanted us dressed up, and wanted a nice meal- which it was...

In reality, it wasn't meant to be kid friendly, but the waiters made every effort to serve food that the kids wanted (if only they'd had something OTHER than pasta with red sauce!:rolleyes: Thus our trip to the dry cleaner this morning...) The table cloth ended up looking like a Jackson Pollack, but the staff took it in stride. The kids didn't fuss too much, and when they did, the parents took them outside for a walk. Was it perfect? No. Did it accomplish the goal of making the grandparents happy? Yes.

So my message here:

1. No condemming a cruise line for not being kid friendly, as though that's some kind of crime, but, at the same time:

2. No condemning adults who want a nice cruise experience, but want to have their children with them.

And while I'm making sweeping statements, how about:

No assuming that every child has the same needs and/or interests, and no assuming that every adult is capable or/interested in behaving how YOU think adults should behave.

Some adults without children LOVE RCCL, Carnival, and even DISNEY! Some kids would be most happy without the forced activities of a kid's program, and be happy to read good books and play board games for a few days at sea.

So whoever said "research before you go/book" has it right!

And for the unfortunate OP who got stuck on a more adult oriented cruise than she was lead to believe due to a switch: I'd say make the best of it, knowing that this particular cruise won't meet all your needs. Next time, armed with these lessons, you can either book to Burmuda again on Celeb, knowing the limitations (Hey, the kids might have a great time!), or book on a cruise to another destination on Celebrity, on their other ships....at least there, you'll know the product is right for you AND your kids....Good cruise experience WITH a children's program. Good luck, and happy cruising.:)

Andrew

[caviargal]

I think not only families will be disappointed with the Journey, but many other seasoned cruisers who are vacationing for the "cruise experience" more than for the ports will also be let down by a cruise on any of these ships.

.

Perhaps those that view quantity over quality and size over service may be disappointed but the big ships and amusement park atmosphere are not for everyone.

As one who cruises more for the experience than the ports, and as a seasoned cruiser, I applaud Celebrity for offering ships that are geared for the sophisticated cruiser who is looking for service, excellent food and some luxury. I make the assumption that they will deliver this type of experience as they are directly competing with Oceania, a very successful cruise line who was created a niche for themselves by positioning themselves as an adult cruise for a sophisticated traveller.

There is most definitely a market for child free cruising with open dining and a relaxed dress code. Celebrity fans who will be put off by the bigger Solstice class and the demographic they will have to agressively market to in order to keep their ships full may just find the perfect solution with these smaller ships.

[sailing sal]

My husband and I have taken 6 of our 7 children twice to Bermuda in the last 4 years. :) They have loved it. We have sailed on the Empress and the Explorer of RC. It was great family time and there was never a dull moment. I stress, family time. That is why we took our children. This year my husband and I are booked on the Journey, in June, with 3 other couples. We are thrilled to travel with adults and plan to enjoy Bermuda without the children this time. Bermuda is what you make of it! Sand, beach, relaxation, sun, etc.;)

[Blazerboy]

I think not only families will be disappointed with the Journey, but many other seasoned cruisers who are vacationing for the "cruise experience" more than for the ports will also be let down by a cruise on any of these ships.
Yeah, I agree with Caviargal for the most part...:)

Give me a ship without a casino, without a movie theatre, without "Broadway shows," without limbo contests by the pool, without shopping lectures, without "sales" in the gift shops, without art auctions, without a kid's program, without any of the fancy "mall attractions," and just leave me with a cruise where I walk the decks, meet for meals and/or drinks, perhaps dance a little, rest, nap, go to a few lectures, read, and enjoy the ocean, and spend a few interesting days in ports, and then you'll have my typical cruise.

Now, true enough, I have this same experience on most every cruise I take, whether they have the above or not. But many would assume that I want a dull cruise....far from it! :eek:

I like people who have a sense of humor, a sense of style, and a sense of all the enjoyment derived from "entertaining one's self" that typifies the cruisers that I befriend. The good news is that we can do that anywhere, but the even better news is that there are a few ships where this will be the norm. There are PLENTY of ships for those that like many of the more prevalent cruise ship features cruise lines advertize today. Seems as though there's room for both, yes?

Andrew

[Charles4515]

That being said - a trip to Bermuda with sea days to and from, I'm not certain this class of ship will be able to 'entertain' many of the adult pax. It is a more "laid back" atmosphere that some will enjoy, but others will be disappointed.

I applaud X for maintaining these ships and for offering the iteneraries that these ships normally sail. I do question the Bermuda sailings (particuarly since they are not offering any sailings on any of their more mainstream ships on these itineraries). X should be marketing these ships and their itineraries as a boutique offering and pushing them as a subbrand so that pax really understand what they are getting.

From what I have heard Celebrity was commited to having a ship in Bermuda for the 2007 season. It will be interesting to see if it does Bermuda in 2008.

And I agree with you that some of the adult passengers will be disappionted. I know some who went on Oceana Regetta and said there was not enough to do on sea days.

[Blazerboy]

And I agree with you that some of the adult passengers will be disappionted. I know some who went on Oceana Regetta and said there was not enough to do on sea days.I should clarify my previous post to say that, yes, there likely will be some who are dissapointed with the change in ship to Bermuda, and, conversely, some who will love the experience, but might have not enjoyed the previous type of cruise.

"I know someone who went on a round the world cruise, and then asked where else they could go....;) "

And the famous line about Transatlantic crossings, from Cunard, I believe..."So little to do, and not enough time to do it all...":)

Give me sea days, sea days, and more sea days....:D

Takes all kinds:cool: ,

Andrew

[Charles4515]

I should clarify my previous post to say that, yes, there likely will be some who are dissapointed with the change in ship to Bermuda, and, conversely, some who will love the experience, but might have not enjoyed the previous type of cruise.

Andrew

Since you are clarifying, I went on an even smaller ship to Bermuda with less passengers than Journey, the original Pacific Princess, and it was one of my all time favorite cruises. One thing that you do on a small ship is make a lot more friends than on a mega ship because you see people agian a lot more. On a super mega ship you might meet someone and not run into them again the whole cruise. Also you get to know the cruise staff a lot better. So I am looking forward to sailing on Journey.

[jmsevens]

This thread should not be about how you feel about kids on a ship or if they belong on another cruise line.

RCCL and Celebrity are different lines, the ships within Celebrity are different classes, referring to size but the same line. Again from the web site -
http://media.celebritycruises.com/celebrity/content/images/plan_cruise/ships/Journey/journey_class_header.gif

Elaborate, ornate and exquisite are just a few words to describe these elegant ships. Celebrity Journey and Celebrity Quest bring all the amenities of a traditional Celebrity ship in a more intimate setting.

Celebrity advertises an amenity to be available, they should deliver. Yes, there is some fine print that they can change anything they want anytime they want but... How would everybody feel if they booked a cruise and Celebrity suddenly switched to "freestyle cruising" or a "resort casual" dress code but continued to advertise their usual dining experience?

They do not promise youth facilities but they do promise a youth program. All that takes is activities staff and a corner of a lounge or buffet like trivia or other shipboard games.

[ocngypz]

Since you are clarifying, I went on an even smaller ship to Bermuda with less passengers than Journey, the original Pacific Princess, and it was one of my all time favorite cruises. One thing that you do on a small ship is make a lot more friends than on a mega ship because you see people agian a lot more. On a super mega ship you might meet someone and not run into them again the whole cruise. Also you get to know the cruise staff a lot better. So I am looking forward to sailing on Journey.


Ah,, the Pacific Princess... my Bermuda cruise on her ranks at the top of my list for most favorite cruise. With comparable pricing, but actually larger stateroom on the PP... the real attraction for two 40-something ladies was the liklihood of fewer children onboard and a more intimate cruise experience.
We went the second week in August... and we were right.. a total of 7 under 18's .. and a superb cruise experience. I thought playing mini golf on the sculptured oriental rug in the elevator lobby was a hoot! It was also VERY difficult!

[rebeccalouise]

This thread should not be about how you feel about kids on a ship or if they belong on another cruise line.

RCCL and Celebrity are different lines, the ships within Celebrity are different classes, referring to size but the same line. Again from the web site -
http://media.celebritycruises.com/celebrity/content/images/plan_cruise/ships/Journey/journey_class_header.gif

Elaborate, ornate and exquisite are just a few words to describe these elegant ships. Celebrity Journey and Celebrity Quest bring all the amenities of a traditional Celebrity ship in a more intimate setting.

Celebrity advertises an amenity to be available, they should deliver. Yes, there is some fine print that they can change anything they want anytime they want but... How would everybody feel if they booked a cruise and Celebrity suddenly switched to "freestyle cruising" or a "resort casual" dress code but continued to advertise their usual dining experience?

They do not promise youth facilities but they do promise a youth program. All that takes is activities staff and a corner of a lounge or buffet like trivia or other shipboard games.

They are not going to have a youth staff. They are only offering incabin babysitting - subject to availability.

[gillianrose]

Even though San Francisco is our home port, and we've taken advantage of sailing on various itineraries...we're very pleased that Celebrity has expanded it's destinations. We've always wanted to see Australia/New Zealand and Tahiti, and were really excited when Celebrity added these new countries....

I was one of the first callers when Celebrity opened the phone lines for bookings to Australia/New Zealand and we have our reservations for this coming December. Are you booked for OZ/NZ, too?

[lisiamc]

From what I have heard Celebrity was commited to having a ship in Bermuda for the 2007 season. It will be interesting to see if it does Bermuda in 2008.

And I agree with you that some of the adult passengers will be disappionted. I know some who went on Oceana Regetta and said there was not enough to do on sea days.

And, on the other hand, there will be many like my husband and I. We booked on Zenith, and when we found out that Journey would be our new ship to Bermuda, we felt like we'd won the lottery. We sailed on Zenith in 2000, and liked her fine, but Journey will be newly refurbished, and a new experience for us. We love sea days, and we're looking forward to spending some on a smaller, more intimate ship.

Lisa:)

[pilewski]

i tell you, the more i read about people being excited for the new ship, the more i am glad i ecided to keep my reservation, despite the lack of the traditional cruise ameneties. i am so used to the same routine on a cruise (like the NCL commercials), i wonder what changes i am in store for.

[Blazerboy]

I think you've got the right attitude! But be forewarned!!!! I started cruising/crossing the Atlantic at four y.o., on ships without all the 'amenities' and it's become a life-long addiction...what ARE you doing to your children????:D :D

Andrew

[Karynanne]

I was one of the first callers when Celebrity opened the phone lines for bookings to Australia/New Zealand and we have our reservations for this coming December. Are you booked for OZ/NZ, too?


Yes, we booked a B2B for next Feb./Mar. ending in Honolulu. We were also one of the first group that booked. I'm really excited to see this part of the world. So much to see and do, but we'll have 29 days to explore as much as we can.

Karyn

[dkjretired]

[QUOTE=

I am aware that Celebrity does have some kids programs, but quite frankly those to me are geared more towards younger children and really are meant as a distraction so the parents have free time. I do believe that Celebrity caters more towards an adult atmosphere and provides Childrens activities as an amenity, as opposed to RCCL that clearly through it's marketing targets their ships as the destination for kids and families. For my kids, I want the ship to be part of the experience and adventure.

QUOTE]

As someone who has taken my children on 8 Celebrity cruises covering a range of ages, you could not be more wrong in your thoughts towards Celeblrity's childrens programs.

[BrooklynGirl2]

I know this is a little OT but I'll be curious to hear how the Journey handles the North Atlantic seas on the Bermuda sailings. Zenith was a much bigger ship than Journey and we've had some pretty rough sea days. Anyone have experience with this type R ship in the Atlantic?

[ocngypz]

I know this is a little OT but I'll be curious to hear how the Journey handles the North Atlantic seas on the Bermuda sailings. Zenith was a much bigger ship than Journey and we've had some pretty rough sea days. Anyone have experience with this type R ship in the Atlantic?


Both Zenith and Horizon were aft end wallowers in heavy seas. I sailed the former Ren ships i some nasty weather.........I'd take Journey or Quest any day as these ships appeared to me to be much snappier out of their rolls.

[rebeccalouise]

[quote=

I am aware that Celebrity does have some kids programs, but quite frankly those to me are geared more towards younger children and really are meant as a distraction so the parents have free time. I do believe that Celebrity caters more towards an adult atmosphere and provides Childrens activities as an amenity, as opposed to RCCL that clearly through it's marketing targets their ships as the destination for kids and families. For my kids, I want the ship to be part of the experience and adventure.

QUOTE]

As someone who has taken my children on 8 Celebrity cruises covering a range of ages, you could not be more wrong in your thoughts towards Celeblrity's childrens programs.

I concur-my son has participated in the Fun Factory program on three different cruises and the counselors and warm and welcoming. The facility is great and he loves it! They have great activities and he never wants to go with me. I miss him actually but it is nice for the whole family to have fun. And we do. Just got off RCL and was not impressed with the kids program. I do think RCL is a good cruise for older kids that don't want to be in a youth program. There were over 500 kids- on Radiance of the Seas and many were teens- unlike Celebrity where you generally see more kids 3-9.

[rebeccalouise]

I know this is a little OT but I'll be curious to hear how the Journey handles the North Atlantic seas on the Bermuda sailings. Zenith was a much bigger ship than Journey and we've had some pretty rough sea days. Anyone have experience with this type R ship in the Atlantic?


I did Oceania Regatta (sister ship to the Celebrity Journey). It moves alot. I wouldn't want to do a Transatlantic on her. She moved alot in the Caribbean, particularly at the back in the specialty resturants. I felt a bit queasy at dinner some nights and the water was calm.

[pilewski]

I did Oceania Regatta (sister ship to the Celebrity Journey). It moves alot. I wouldn't want to do a Transatlantic on her. She moved alot in the Caribbean, particularly at the back in the specialty resturants. I felt a bit queasy at dinner some nights and the water was calm.

this makes me a little nervous, although there were some previous posts that said these ships can handle the seas. i was on zenith and she listed to port in rough weather and i do not recall much movement. there was much more movement on galaxy in the same rough seas.

[JCDeck]

I know this is a little OT but I'll be curious to hear how the Journey handles the North Atlantic seas on the Bermuda sailings. Zenith was a much bigger ship than Journey and we've had some pretty rough sea days. Anyone have experience with this type R ship in the Atlantic?

Remember, the Titanic was only 40,000 Tons.

[dkjretired]

Remember, the Titanic was only 40,000 Tons.

Yes, and there shouldn't be any icebergs on the way to Bermuda....

[lisiamc]

I know this is a little OT but I'll be curious to hear how the Journey handles the North Atlantic seas on the Bermuda sailings. Zenith was a much bigger ship than Journey and we've had some pretty rough sea days. Anyone have experience with this type R ship in the Atlantic?

I take the fact that they're still afloat after many crossings as a good sign.:) And after all, if I'm in a ship, on a cruise, I expect to feel the motion of the ocean sometimes. (Unless I'm in DeMillo's floating restaurant in Portland - then it's too much wine that makes everything pitch and roll!:p )

Lisa

[excitedofharpenden]

Yes, and there shouldn't be any icebergs on the way to Bermuda....
Don, don't tempt fate with all this global warming going on;)

Phil

[Charles4515]

I know this is a little OT but I'll be curious to hear how the Journey handles the North Atlantic seas on the Bermuda sailings. Zenith was a much bigger ship than Journey and we've had some pretty rough sea days. Anyone have experience with this type R ship in the Atlantic?

Yes, I had several rough sea days on Zenith. Can't say it handled them that well. I suspect the Journey won't be any worse and will probably be better since it was designed for exotics. And there are 8 of the R ships which have been sailing all over the world, never heard that rough seas were a problem for them. But the possibilty of rough seas comes with the territory of sailing to Bermuda. If you are scared of rough seas or really bothered by them, one probably should not cruise to Bermuda even on a mega ship. Everyone has their own tolerances. I don't get sea sick and have a high tolerance.

[JCDeck]

Yes, and there shouldn't be any icebergs on the way to Bermuda....

That's the point.

[editor@cruisecritic]

Hi, Pilewski. I agree that it's a big disappointment to find that all of a sudden there will be no kids' facilities -- but I know these ships so well (and in fact was on Celebrity Journey on Sunday) and there's simply no room for a childrens' facility. Spender Nui is right when he says that they were originally designed, way back in the late 1990s, as adult-only ships.

I can only surmise that Celebrity's been really conflicted about what it's going to do with the Journey and Quest and I think have only recently figured it out (stay tuned -- we'll give all the details). Now they know...it's going to be marketed at an Oceania crowd. More upscale, more low key, more flexible in all ways.

That's no excuse for giving bad information, though, and that's a shame you were told the wrong thing.

The challenge is that there aren't too many other ships still doing a full week in Bermuda...maybe a Royal Caribbean out of Norfolk? I'd search around. Have you cruised to Canada/New England with your tykes? That's a destination that's trying to market its family friendly sensibility.

Anyway, for anyone who's interested in what Journey looks like NOW -- in the midst of the refurbishment that's going on in the Bahamas -- stay tuned for our A Closer Look photo and video essay from the shipyard. It'll launch either Thursday or Friday...and it's fascinating.

Carolyn

Carolyn Spencer Brown
Editor
Cruise Critic

The Journey and the Quest are not kid friendly. They were built as NO KID ALLOWED ships.

Great ships but leave the kids at home.

[editor@cruisecritic]

LOL, let me be the first to tell you, Charles, that the R-series of ships (now sailing under flags for Oceania, Princess and, soon, Celebrity) are infamously bad at handling bad weather. I'm terribly sensitive to seasickness (oddly enough, given that I cruise for my job :D ) and I have sailed on probably 12 or so cruises on R ships. And there were some tough ones (particularly memorable was two days in the South Pacific on Tahitian Princess as we cruised to Rarotonga and back, and two days-that-seemed-like-seven when we sailed across the Bay of Biscay on Swan Hellenic's Minerva (now Royal Princess).

I love these ships more than any others out there, they're my favorites of all, but you wouldn't catch me dead or alive on a crossing. Again, though, I admit: I'm sensitive. Doesn't stop me from cruising on them to other places, though; I just pack an extra supply of Bonine.

Carolyn

Carolyn Spencer Brown
Editor
Cruise Critic


Yes, I had several rough sea days on Zenith. Can't say it handled them that well. I suspect the Journey won't be any worse and will probably be better since it was designed for exotics. And there are 8 of the R ships which have been sailing all over the world, never heard that rough seas were a problem for them. But the possibilty of rough seas comes with the territory of sailing to Bermuda. If you are scared of rough seas or really bothered by them, one probably should not cruise to Bermuda even on a mega ship. Everyone has their own tolerances. I don't get sea sick and have a high tolerance.

[BrooklynGirl2]

Yes, I had several rough sea days on Zenith. Can't say it handled them that well. I suspect the Journey won't be any worse and will probably be better since it was designed for exotics. And there are 8 of the R ships which have been sailing all over the world, never heard that rough seas were a problem for them. But the possibilty of rough seas comes with the territory of sailing to Bermuda. If you are scared of rough seas or really bothered by them, one probably should not cruise to Bermuda even on a mega ship. Everyone has their own tolerances. I don't get sea sick and have a high tolerance.

Charles...I've sailed to Bermuda 5 times and once on a small Home Lines ship with no stabilizers in a tropical storm. I'm not scared of rough seas or really bothered by them...as you say they come with the territory of sailing to Bermuda. But let's face it...many people are bothered and it certainly makes a more enjoyable cruise when the waiters can remain upright during dinner :D :D and the gift shop does not lose all it's merchandise :eek: :p . I was just curious about the way the R-class ships handle rough seas.

@Carolyn...thank you for your input and thoughts.

[Charles4515]

Charles...I've sailed to Bermuda 5 times and once on a small Home Lines ship with no stabilizers in a tropical storm. I'm not scared of rough seas or really bothered by them...as you say they come with the territory of sailing to Bermuda. But let's face it...many people are bothered and it certainly makes a more enjoyable cruise when the waiters can remain upright during dinner :D :D and the gift shop does not lose all it's merchandise :eek: :p . I was just curious about the way the R-class ships handle rough seas.

@Carolyn...thank you for your input and thoughts.

Carolyn says they don't handle well. I had not heard about that but she has been on them so I am sure it is true. I have never been seasick and been on some really rough seas, 25 feet just last year coming back from Bermuda so I tend to not worry about much about rough seas but in addition to seasickness for those people prone to it people can fall and break bones in rough seas if a ship does not handle them well. So it would be well that people be informed of both about the rough seas possible to and from Bermuda, and that these ships are known not to handle them well. It is good you asked the question.

[Blazerboy]

I wouldn't condemn the ships based on Carolyn's comments, although they ARE valid for her. My mother has sailed on all those ships, and never had any complaints. As Carolyn admits, she's sensitive to motion. My mother isn't. I think the best thing is to think about how YOU handle weather, and then pick itineraries and ships that offer the least likely problems...:)

I've sailed on the M class Celebrity ships, and I actually think they handle like empty barges on the Atlantic (not well, in case you were wondering!:eek: ) But it doesn't bother me that much, either. If you're sensitive to motion, and want to do a TA, either gamble, take a more Southerly route, or take Cunard. But, for those who are only moderately sensitive, do as Carolyn does, and bring your bonine, and enjoy! There's nothing like a crossing!:D

Andrew

[rebeccalouise]

To Compare vessels.
I did the Zenith to the Caribbean and to Bermuda with no problems with motion.

I did the Millenium Transatlantic from Ft. Lauderdale - Barcelona and was amazed at how smooth that voyage was.

I did the Galaxy from Baltimore- San Juan without incident

I did the Constellation out of NYC and it was rough until we got to the Carolinas. We took Bonine both coming and returning to NY.

I also sailed on Carnival Victory to Canada and the seas were rough- but we didn't feel sick.

Oceania Regatta (sister to Journey) is not a smooth riding vessel. Don't get me wrong- no one in my group felt seasick but we were in the Caribbean. I am not sure if it would be worse in the Atlantic. One thing to consider though, especially for older people is the motion does effect walking and going up and down stairs more so than any other ship I have sailed.

[celebrityfan65]

Bermuda is a great place for kids. When I sailed on the Horizon they did not have a designated kids club but they did have counselors in the cafeterias or lounges closed for the teens at night. The Journey should offer the same for the kids this summer. Celebrity needs to find a way to cater to the customers who booked with the Zenith and have some type of kids/teens programs available. The ship is geared towards "no kids" but this summer will be mostly families who booked on the Zenith and were transferred to the Journey...and promised that there were kid/teen programs.

[rebeccalouise]

there isn't going to be much for kids to do on Journey. It is a small intimate ship with a focus on dining and relaxing. I don't recommend it for kids.

[POOHISME2]

I would never take my kids on Journey (though I would go with my DH). Try a family friendly line to Bermuda line NCL from NY.

[pilewski]

I would never take my kids on Journey (though I would go with my DH). Try a family friendly line to Bermuda line NCL from NY.

why? is it because there is no children's program or it would be inappropriate to have children on board. i don't want to get there and be told that the kids can't eat in the main dining room because the passengers want an adult only dinner. my only concern is that they wil be bored on the days at sea. anyone with kids knows that they can have every toy in the world to occupy them, but they are still bored, especially since disney magic was their last cruise experience last fall.

[Blazerboy]

:) All of you parents know your kids well, so you can make the best choice as to whether a more adult cruise experience would be right for them... but I have to add one more time that some of those trips with an adult focus that I took as a child added SO MUCH to my 'life education.'

I really enjoyed them, and also learned a lot about how to enjoy interacting with adults, which has been invaluable in my life ever since. I also became more creative in finding things to do, rather than be "entertained." Both kinds of vacations have value...especially if, like some of today's kids, they're a little "over programed" with school and activities.

Just my $.34 (inflation from when I was a kid!:D )

Andrew

[Blazerboy]

Pilewski, sadly, one of the lessons I learned back then is that not all adults tolerate children well all the time. I learned how to read that as a ten year old, with help from my mother, and still managed to have a GREAT time.

Funnily enough, when I took a 17 day cruise on Crystal when I turned 30, I got some of the same attitude, because some folks not only didn't want children, they didn't even want folks who weren't retired:eek: ....I charmed some, and avoided others...:rolleyes: ...and, once again, had a fabulous cruise!

Andrew

[pilewski]

i agree with blazerboy:D

[joelmarj]

[quote=dkjretired;9918092]

I concur-my son has participated in the Fun Factory program on three different cruises and the counselors and warm and welcoming. The facility is great and he loves it! They have great activities and he never wants to go with me. I miss him actually but it is nice for the whole family to have fun. And we do. Just got off RCL and was not impressed with the kids program. I do think RCL is a good cruise for older kids that don't want to be in a youth program. There were over 500 kids- on Radiance of the Seas and many were teens- unlike Celebrity where you generally see more kids 3-9.

You missed my point which was "IMHO it is geared more towards younger kids" Mine are teens and quite frankly are not interested in a "councelor who is nice". They are interested in Rock Walls, Pools for Kids without adults giving them cranky looks for splashing, mini-golf and skating. I also said I make the decision knowing MY KIDS would be bored. I also pointed out that I don't ask every cruise line to be everything to me. I am fine trying different lines and don't essentially demand they all meet my needs. If your son likes their program, than that's a great choice. I know my kids and I know they would be bored. Thats the whole point! Different choices for different preferences, but again no cruiseline is going to be everything to everyone.

[rebeccalouise]

I don't think I missed any point. You quoted me as stating that there were more teens on RCL. I think that is a better choice for teens. In the quote I said that Celebrity had more kids 3-9.

I am glad that you like RCL. Lots of people do. It just isn't Celebrity. As for my older son (19). He stopped cruising with me a couple years ago. He has outgrown it and frankly older kids tend to get into to much trouble- drinking, horsing around, etc. Not saying your kids do- but I don't know how well behaved my teen would have been on a cruise. When they are with other teens they tend to be silly. Saw alot of that on RCL.

[POOHISME2]

why? is it because there is no children's program or it would be inappropriate to have children on board. i don't want to get there and be told that the kids can't eat in the main dining room because the passengers want an adult only dinner. my only concern is that they wil be bored on the days at sea. anyone with kids knows that they can have every toy in the world to occupy them, but they are still bored, especially since disney magic was their last cruise experience last fall.
Yes, because there is no kids program. I have taken them to Bermuda, Last year on NCL and they LOVED the kids program. Its something they look foward to. My kids bore easily and I wouldnt pay that much for them not to have a great time on their vacation too.

[dkjretired]

[quote=rebeccalouise;9924481]

You missed my point which was "IMHO it is geared more towards younger kids" Mine are teens and quite frankly are not interested in a "councelor who is nice". They are interested in Rock Walls, Pools for Kids without adults giving them cranky looks for splashing, mini-golf and skating. I also said I make the decision knowing MY KIDS would be bored. I also pointed out that I don't ask every cruise line to be everything to me. I am fine trying different lines and don't essentially demand they all meet my needs. If your son likes their program, than that's a great choice. I know my kids and I know they would be bored. Thats the whole point! Different choices for different preferences, but again no cruiseline is going to be everything to everyone.

Joel:
If you will check your post, somewho I was quoted for something that someone else actually posted. There were some problems with the boards today however I did want to clarify your quote....

[ninabk]

There is a happy compromise. I went on a Seabourn cruise where there were other children on board. (Now Seabourn, unlike Celebrity, charges full fare for the third in the cabin!) They had a scavenger hunt for the children one afternoon which was a lot of fun. My daughter is 10 1/2 - and a very experienced traveler - and as long as there are other children on board to socialize with, she should be okay. So it would be nice if Celebrity could organize some social events for tweens and teens, just to make them feel at home. I took a Royal Carribean cruise on one of the smaller ships and it was fine (we ate almost every night at the chop house). But I prefer a small ship ambience and decent dining experience.

[joelmarj]

[quote=joelmarj;9945981]

Joel:
If you will check your post, somewho I was quoted for something that someone else actually posted. There were some problems with the boards today however I did want to clarify your quote....

Don - Your right, very quirky. It was not yours that I was quoting. Glad you clarified.

My bottom line is that I personally don't think Celebrity is a great fit for MY 14 and 17 yr old boys. It may work for others, but just not mine, so I find a cruise line that does instead of trying to demand that Celebrity change.

[jmsevens]

There is a happy compromise. I went on a Seabourn cruise where there were other children on board. (Now Seabourn, unlike Celebrity, charges full fare for the third in the cabin!) They had a scavenger hunt for the children one afternoon which was a lot of fun. My daughter is 10 1/2 - and a very experienced traveler - and as long as there are other children on board to socialize with, she should be okay. So it would be nice if Celebrity could organize some social events for tweens and teens, just to make them feel at home. I took a Royal Carribean cruise on one of the smaller ships and it was fine (we ate almost every night at the chop house). But I prefer a small ship ambience and decent dining experience.

My 8 and 10 year olds were on Connie last year. Their favorite things were scavenger hunts, bridge tours, theater tour, group games etc. My son never set foot in the fun factory. They enjoyed making new friends and the whole cruise experience.

It does not take a kids facility to have a kids program. It's just like poolside games, trivia and bingo for the adults.

[rebeccalouise]

[quote=dkjretired;9949791]

Don - Your right, very quirky. It was not yours that I was quoting. Glad you clarified.

My bottom line is that I personally don't think Celebrity is a great fit for MY 14 and 17 yr old boys. It may work for others, but just not mine, so I find a cruise line that does instead of trying to demand that Celebrity change.

I agree with you. The last cruise I took my then 17 year old on was NCL. We all had fun and he slept until 1PM, stayed out until whe wee hours with his new friends on the ship. He had a good time. I doubt he would have had as much fun on Celebrity. My solution these days is to leave him home (he is in college now) and travel with my six year old, who still loves all the kids clubs. I love Celebrity-so we are both happy. When he outgrows Celebrity- I'll probably either stop cruising or go sans kids.

[Zenithfan]

My son was in the kids program on Zenith the last three years. The childrens room is the size of two cabins. They spend about 95 percent of the time away from the childrens room. The activities are done in the other public rooms when they're not being used.

[ninabk]

Just booked and rep told me that there will be childrens activities to accomodate the number of children on board. It will not be as extensive as their regular program but they will have something. I recognize that the Bermuda cruise is a "work in progress" but this is definitely encouraging.

[1cruiselvr]

I don't think X is purposely excluding children from sailing on Journey/Quest by no kids program (meaning kids club area). I think it's dictated by the size of the ship and the fact that the original design intent was for an all adult cruise experience (Ren). So to retrofit a kids area would mean taking out an adult area - spa? gym? specialty dining restaurant? What should go? Also for those with very young I would reconsider sailing on one of these ships. They are SMALL ships. Not many places for the kids to entertain themselves and easy to get seasick. Unless you've been on a small ship, you really don't have a good grasp of what that means for your sailing experience. I'm all for kids having a fun cruise vacation with their parents. But I don't think the smaller ships are the best place to do it. Happy Sailing!

[Blazerboy]

Important to remember that sea sickness is like everything else, it's individual to each person. Some people, and indeed, some children aren't as affected by the motion, so a smaller ship isn't necessarily any worse for a child than a larger one. I sailed on ships this size at age four and didn't have problems, even in rough weather.:) And certainly, the ships of my youth didn't have as good stabilizer systems as they have today!

Andrew

[rebeccalouise]

I got seasick so bad as a kid and outgrew it by the time I was in my twenties. It depends on the kid. My son (age 5 at the time) got really pale and quesy on the Constellation- both coming and going from NY to the Caribbean and back. So did I though. Neither of us got seasick on the Victory to Canada and that was a much rougher journey. Don't know what triggers it but I think it might have alot to do with the stabilizer and their jerky motion.

Any way "Bonine" works. Bring some along. Kids can use it too.

[cruisin'since'75]

Finally, a cruise line devoted to the needs and wants of adults who don't need or want kids! I sailed on ships all over the world since '75. Nary a child in sight those first several years, and those that were on board were quite lovely and well-behaved. They walked in the narrow hallways instead of running; they spoke in moderate tones, not yelling curse words and screeching at the top of their lungs. Most of the children would let elderly folks pass without trying to push past them, and if someone was in a wheelchair or walked with a cane, they made way for them rather than trying to trip them.

Children stayed in the children's pool. They didn't monopolize the hot tub with their gangs of friends for hours at a time. They didn't bounce basketballs, play catch, jump rope or generally annoy the adults sitting in the back, quieter areas of the ship just because "they paid their money and could do whatever they want".

There are plenty of cruise lines that cater to children these days; i.e. Disney, Carnival, even Royal Caribbean, what with rock climbing walls, ice skating rinks, surfing, etc., etc. And you booked the Zenith and got the Journey? You still have time to cancel and rebook another line. Perhaps if you as parents spent a little more time with your children at home teaching them some behavioral skills and lots of manners they might almost be welcome, but not this time. Take them with you somewhere else.

Leave the rest of us to our precious Journey.