Catering to Kids vs Accomodating Them

[Roz]

I've read some interesting threads over the past couple of weeks dealing with the never ending topic of HAL and kids. I'd like to offer my perspective. Keep in mind that I don't have any children of my own, and I've been on 5 HAL cruises, 4 of them solo. I've also been on 2 Carnival cruises.

One of my sisters owns an independent restaurant. It's an Italian restaurant, with a wine shop attached. Besides serving lunch and dinner, she does catering and also holds evening wine tastings.

If you bring a child to her restaurant, will she accomodate them? Yes. Does she cater to children? No. So, you ask, what is the difference?

My sister has high chairs and booster chairs available, and a limited children's menu. Mostly smaller versions of some of the adult entrees, for example, a small dish of spaghetti topped with 1 meatball.

She does NOT have: a separate room for families, a kids eat free night, a policy of kids eating half price when 2 adult entrees are purchased, clowns and balloons, chicken fingers and hot dogs, etc.

In other words, she is not Chuckie Cheese! Does this mean that she hates children or won't serve them? Certainly not. But is her restaurant the first choice for families with young children? No, it's not. And therein lies the difference.

Her bread and butter is adult who come in for a leisurely (sometimes even romantic) Italian dinner, and who purchase a bottle or two of wine with their meal or to take home with them.

If someone is planning a family cruise, my first inclination is not to steer them towards HAL. Right now we're looking at an extended family cruise, and most of my nieces and nephews are middle and high school age. Looks like RCI is going to be the cruise line with the activities and amenities most suited to a wide range of ages and interests, at a reasonable price. Doesn't mean I'm not going to sail HAL again. It just means that for a family cruise, a line like RCI is going to work best for us.

Will HAL accomodate your children? Certainly. Does HAL cater to children? Not really, at least not like Disney, RCI or Carnival. Does this mean that the HAL crew and passengers hate children? Certainly not.

Roz

[Cruisechik]

Hi Roz,

I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. HAL is certainly courting families. I don't know if HAL sends different literature to different customer subsets, but advertisements we get from HAL promotes it's children's programs with a full page.

We have been on just about all of the cruise lines and my daughter prefers Celebrity and HAL. Yes, RCI offers a full range of activities but they are overwhelming. Too many children. She prefers the mellower atmosphere, just as we do. The way I see it, people book vacations based on their general disposition.

Should we only travel to Orlando since it is child oriented? London does not cater to children, should we not visit there because it is not a theme park? I guess when we went to Paris, that would be ok because of EuroDisney, but we never even considered taking our child there. I guess we are the shameful parents who inflict quality on our child. We have never considered Chuckie Cheese a family dining alternative. Our daughter's meals do not consist of chicken nuggets and frozen pizza. Her favorite foods are sushi and lobster bisque soup. We don't even order off of the kid's menus on cruises. My parents exposed us to a variety of foods and cultures and I intend to do the same with my child.

Your beef should be with HAL not the families. They are offering an environment that is perfect for some families. Sorry, but we really enjoy HAL and feel that we are welcomed not merely accommodated.

[Roz]

I don't have a "beef" with HAL, I have a beef with the families who book HAL and then expect it to be like an amusement park. :D

Roz

[O2B@C]

Nice post, Roz. People do sometimes have a tendency to see things in extremes - either you let kids do anything they want, and cater to their every whim, or it must be that you hate them. You have very eloquently and persuasively articulated the middle ground.

When I did TAs on Cunard with my parents in the 1950s and 1960s (this was transport, not cruising - my mom refused to fly to Europe), they had a sort of day care center for very small children, which was lovely, but IIRC, there was nothing special for "tweens" and up. As a result, I have such fond memories of sitting side-by-side with my parents on deck chairs, wrapped in blankets, reading a wonderful book, looking out to sea, and sipping the hot bouillon the deck stewards used to bring out around 11am. It was a wonderful family experience for all concerned.

In a word, I agree. Venues that are not specifically designed and intended primarily for children should exist, and be recognized as such, and in those venues, children can and should be accommodated - as appropriate based on their ages -in a way that preserves a peaceful, relaxed, quiet atmosphere for the adults around them.

[O2B@C]

Hi Roz, I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. ... We have been on just about all of the cruise lines and my daughter prefers Celebrity and HAL. Yes, RCI offers a full range of activities but they are overwhelming. Too many children. She prefers the mellower atmosphere, just as we do. The way I see it, people book vacations based on their general disposition .... Your beef should be with HAL not the families. They are offering an environment that is perfect for some families. Sorry, but we really enjoy HAL and feel that we are welcomed not merely accommodated.

Cruisechik, as far as I'm concerned, families like yours are VERY welcome on HAL, and if I'm reading Roz's original post correctly, I don't think she'd disagree. HAL may, as you say, be perfect for SOME families - just as Cunard in the old days was perfect for mine - and it does sound like yours is one of them.

But just as HAL isn't the "right" line for all adults (e.g., those who want a 24-hour "party" atmosphere), it's not the right line for ALL families either. What causes problems is when parents bring children on HAL whose expectations and standards of behavior don't match with HAL's "mellower atmosphere."

[caviargal]

I agree with your post...it was well thought out and articulated many of my own feelings on the subject.

We avoid ships and lines that are family focused because we prefer those that are more traditional and geared towards adults. At the moment, HAL and X are two lines who do not emphasize a vacation experience designed for families. When and if that changes to an appreciable degree, we will look elsewhere.

[babyher]

Roz,

I also think you made an excellent point:) and I certainly see the difference between accomodating and catering to.

But, isn't HAL catering to families by having venues like Club Hal , and Oasis , and The Loft? Those are actual venues (that HAL has spent a lot of money building) for children and teens only.

[Cruisechik]

I don't have a "beef" with HAL, I have a beef with the families who book HAL and then expect it to be like an amusement park. :D

Roz

Hi Roz,

Your statement opens up an interesting argument - do some families expect HAL to be like an amusement park? Are there many complaints about the lack of amusement facilities? They do have dedicated children's facilities. Clearly, HAL is not marketed like RCI (rock climbing walls, ice skating, etc.) but do you think families don't see the difference? Or is the real issue the failure of the patron not knowing the product they're purchasing, then complaining?

I have noticed that when people I know say they don't like cruises, generally, it was a bad client/product match. A traditionalist on carnival, a partier on HAL, etc. I place most of the blame on TA's. I know that it is your responsibility to thoroughly investigate your purchases, but isn't the point of employing a TA use of their expertise?

I fully understand complaints about unruly children. I also understand people's desires for adult only cruises. I just think that HAL is a main-stream line and the expectation of it being adults only it a bit unreasonable. Maybe, I am a bit selfish wanting to be with my family in a more traditional atmosphere at sea versus being on a floating shopping mall.

[caviargal]

But, isn't HAL catering to families by having venues like Club Hal , and Oasis , and The Loft? Those are actual venues (that HAL has spent a lot of money building) for children and teens only.

HAL is accomodating to children. However, the Club HAL and Oasis do not even begin to compare to the kids and teens facilities on the megaships of RCI. These ships are designed primarily for familes. They even started their own loyalty program for kids and have advisory boards for kids and teens.

I was just aboard Liberty of the Seas. That is a ship that caters to families in every single way. They even have a "Surf Night" with a silly menu to match and the dress code is shorts and caribbean shirts. I would not even consider a vacation on a ship like that both for its size and its obvious dedication to family cruising.:(

There is a huge difference between catering to children and accomodating them. Let's hope there continues to be room for both types of cruising.

[cruznon]

Roz,
I really liked your post. I completely understand what you're saying. I really feel that HAL is not a line that has catered to kids, but more to an adult, traditional cruise experience.
However, it's does seem that recently HAL is making a push to cater more to kids/young families. My feeling is that a cruise line can't be all things to all people. Each line has it's own personality and basic clientel. For years HAL has been the quiet, elegant, traditional line and it's Mariners love the line because of it. The push to add larger, flashier kid/teen centers and to give special kid rates to get more young families to come aboard HAL ships is an interesting move. :( By trying to expand their client base to they may actually loose their main client base.
The value many place on HAL's traditional atmosphere could be in jeopardy. Not all, but many, younger family seem to want a more casual environment, flexible dining, larger kids' programs/activities so parents have more freedom to enjoy their time on board. HAL seems to be attempting jump on this bandwagon. But at what cost to the cruise line? Guess we'll all find out... Yes, there IS a difference to accommodating and catering.

[leoandhugh]

Roz,
Very well said and valid. There is a difference between catering to and accomodating and the distinction you make between HAL and RCI is right on. The unfortunate thing is that all cruise lines, in order to protect their bottom line, seem to be gravitating to a middle ground. And some have become confused on how to get there, and others have floundered around once they got to that middle ground. The result, if this continues, is so little difference, it will be like be damned if you do, be damned if you don't, regardless of which line you choose.n An unfortunate trend.:)

[hammybee]

RCL certainly suits some families, more than others. It depends on the family's vacation objectives as well as their collective interests.

Any family who books a cruise with HAL, X, Crystal or the older RCL and Carnival ships and then is disappointed with a lack of an ice skating rink or rock climbing wall or a surfing experience, did not do their homework. The RCL board has plenty of threads/posts by dissappointed pax when they realized that not all RCL ships have these gimicks onboard and instead perceived all RCL ships as equal. These revelations peak with spring break and summer vacation.

The lack of these gimicks does not mean the cruise line or a particular ship does not cater to children. They just do so in a different way. Families contain different generations and some families prefer a more balanced vacation and the opportunity for quality family time is what it is all about.

[caviargal]

"Catering" to familes and children can also be seen in the accomodations offered by some lines/ships.

I was on both Enchantment of the Seas and Liberty within the last 2 months, and Jewel tne end of last year. Some of the "enhancements" made to Enchanment and already incorporated in their newer, larger ships include staterooms that will accomodate 8 passengers. Two bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a pull out couch and bunk beds are one of the options.

Even the Penthouses on HAL can accomodate only 5 and the fifth is only allowed if they are an infant.

[hammybee]

"Catering" to familes and children can also be seen in the accomodations offered by some lines/ships.

I was on both Enchantment of the Seas and Liberty within the last 2 months, and Jewel tne end of last year. Some of the "enhancements" made to Enchanment and already incorporated in their newer, larger ships include staterooms that will accomodate 8 passengers. Two bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a pull out couch and bunk beds are one of the options.

Even the Penthouses on HAL can accomodate only 5 and the fifth is only allowed if they are an infant.

Some parents have a strong preference not to have the kids in the same cabin with them. Most families learn it's less costly to book 2 cabins than a family cabin on NCL and RCL.

Some parents accomplish their goal with adjoining or near-by cabins. Some parents book the least costly inside cabin for their kids, regardless of location. And some parents either prefer or can't afford " family cabins" or separate cabins and they sail as sardines and use thier cabins for sleeping and showering.

It's not much different than a land -based vacation, book a 3 bedroom water-front condo or a few rooms at Motel 8. It all depends upon the family's objectives and resources. Sleeping accommodations may or may not matter to the family's vacation experience.

[ReneeWI]

I have two children--one is now 5 and has been on four cruises, while the other is 6 months and has been on one. We love HAL for exactly the reasons you point out. Our kids are accomodated on HAL, but not catered to. We so often are asked if we are going on a Disney cruise when we mention our travel plans to people. I've always answered that HAL does enough for our kids to be happy, but allows the cruise to still be focused on us adults. That's exactly why we won't do a Disney cruise--I admit that I want to be on an adult vacation that caters to me but accomodates my kids.

[MamaCat.]

Very interesting food for thought. I have been on 5 cruises as a child in the 1970's and 80s and all were HAL except one and I loved everyone of them. Now, I am taking my first cruise with a family (my in-laws are generously treating us) including my 7 and 5 year olds and my 11 month old. I would say that anyone who really did there homework and learned about the different cruise lines would know that HAL is more traditional and low key. That is exactly want we all want as a family. I want to be with my kids as do their grandparents most of the cruise with brief visits to Club Hal for adult breaks. I am also VERY EXCITED:D--to be able to get a babysitter for our kids on most nights so we can enjoy a dinner and show as adults. HAL is one of the only cruise lines that offers babysitting for infants in cabin (it is one reason we choose this cruise).

I also truly believe that my children must be well behaved or suffer serious wrath from parents. We have been planning the vacation for 6 months and we have talked with the kids repeatedly about "appropriate cruise behavior" even having "cruise dinners" to practice our manners (I learned I lean on the table with my elbows which my kids corrected me on). I am glad we have the option to take a traditional cruise with formal nights, long stays at ports of call, Dutch teas, real artwork, well prepared interesting food, fresh flowers, wonderful service and YES a good kids club.;)

Thanks for the interesting post.

[kryos]

Will HAL accomodate your children? Certainly. Does HAL cater to children? Not really, at least not like Disney, RCI or Carnival. Does this mean that the HAL crew and passengers hate children? Certainly not.

Excellent post!

The only thing I disagree with, though, is that HAL for some reason insists on specifically marketing their ships to the family cruiser. For that reason, HAL is obligated to do more than simply accommodate the children; they should be adding ammenities that appeal to them.

I'm sure your sister does not advertise "family nights" in her restaurant. She does not encourage families to come in with the kids. If they do, of course, she will accommodate them with her modest children's menu and the booster and high chairs, but I doubt she puts ads in the paper inviting families to dine at her restaurant with their kids. She has her "niche," and she's sticking to it ... catering to adults as her target market.

Unfortunately, though, HAL is not as sensible as your sister. They feel the need (and it may be a realistic one ... I don't have access to their financial forecasts ten years out) to try and get the family cruiser onboard. Unfortunately, though, because they don't have all the kid-friendly ammenities of other ships, they can only compete by running some killer deals on certain cruises ... kid-friendly deals. As a result, they get a ton of kids on some sailings, but then don't have a whole lot to keep them entertained and happy. Havoc then results as these kids (some with parents who don't give "a dam") endeavor to entertain themselves.

HAL should either endeavor to add kid-friendly ammenities to their ships, or they should stick to what they do best ... focusing on the adult cruiser who likes smaller, intimate ships and exotic itineraries. The way they seem to be going, however, will result in them not really pleasing anybody ... the family cruiser whose kids were bored stiff all week, nor the older adults who had their nerves jangled all week by a bunch of out of control kids.

Just my two cents worth ...

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

HAL is one of the only cruise lines that offers babysitting for infants in cabin (it is one reason we choose this cruise).

I hate to tell you this ... but I don't think that in-cabin babysitting is a sure bet. It depends on if there is anyone onboard (usually the folks who work at the purser's desk) who would like to make some extra money that week babysitting in their off hours. If no one's available, or if they have already been snagged by another passenger, you'll be out of luck for the evening in-cabin babysitting.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I fully understand complaints about unruly children. I also understand people's desires for adult only cruises. I just think that HAL is a main-stream line and the expectation of it being adults only it a bit unreasonable. Maybe, I am a bit selfish wanting to be with my family in a more traditional atmosphere at sea versus being on a floating shopping mall.
HAL is a main stream line, and I agree with you that anyone who expects it to be kid-free is dreaming. Mass market lines are priced at a point where many families can afford to bring the kids along. However, in order to have a successful family vacation on a HAL ship, you'd better know your kids and know them well. Will they be happy there? Are they generally quiet and do they enjoy quiet-type pursuits? Club HAL does not have the hours/ammenities that the children's programs on other lines do. Are you, as a parent, willing to take a more active role in entertaining your kids and keeping them happy? If not, HAL ain't for you.

I agree that often a bad cruising experience results because the travel agent didn't properly match her clients to the ship/cruise line. If someone comes into her office wanting to take a cruise, she will guide them to the line they can afford. If that line happens to be HAL and the client has three high-energy kids/teens, chances are the cruising experience will be a nightmare. The kids will be in the parents' hair all cruise ... whining about having nothing to do. The parents will be miserable because maybe they were expecting the kids to be happily engaged in their activities so that mom and dad could have some quiet time. Nobody's expectations were met ... everyone had a lousy cruise.

I'm not saying HAL is necessarily a bad choice for families. For some it may be perfect. You just have to know your kids well ... and what it takes to keep them entertained and happy.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[JesterPlaying]

I come to this board as a Carnival Cruiser who feels like he is going on his first adult oriented cruise on HAL. This is not to say that I never went on Carnival without children, just my expectation is a higher percent of adults because of itinerary and expense.

I think there is abit of misconception about what amenities are provided on the family oriented lines. The majority of Carnival ships have no more than HAL offers. One or two venues where kids can be overseen and congegrate. However, the tweens and teens very seldom wander there. Our 14 year old at the time spent most of his time running in packs of kids aroudn the ship. Its a kid dynamic, stay away from authority and keep together as a group.

My point is, except for the mega-ships with ice rinks and surf pools, HAL is right in line with its competition. The only thing that was missing was the advertising and now they are even doing that.

[caviargal]

That is exactly want we all want as a family. I want to be with my kids as do their grandparents most of the cruise with brief visits to Club Hal for adult breaks. I am also VERY EXCITED:D--to be able to get a babysitter for our kids on most nights so we can enjoy a dinner and show as adults. HAL is one of the only cruise lines that offers babysitting for infants in cabin (it is one reason we choose this cruise).
;)

Thanks for the interesting post.

I am recently back from a HAL cruise. One of the families in my group arranged for babysitting as soon as they got onboard for two different times.

They learned too late that their 2.5 YO did not qualify for in room sitting as he was not able to use the potty without assistance. They missed out on an excursion as well as dinner at the PG.

I would not make too many assumptions.

[babyher]

HAL is a main stream line, and I agree with you that anyone who expects it to be kid-free is dreaming. Mass market lines are priced at a point where many families can afford to bring the kids along. However, in order to have a successful family vacation on a HAL ship, you'd better know your kids and know them well. Will they be happy there? Are they generally quiet and do they enjoy quiet-type pursuits? Club HAL does not have the hours/ammenities that the children's programs on other lines do. Are you, as a parent, willing to take a more active role in entertaining your kids and keeping them happy? If not, HAL ain't for you.

I agree that often a bad cruising experience results because the travel agent didn't properly match her clients to the ship/cruise line. If someone comes into her office wanting to take a cruise, she will guide them to the line they can afford. If that line happens to be HAL and the client has three high-energy kids/teens, chances are the cruising experience will be a nightmare. The kids will be in the parents' hair all cruise ... whining about having nothing to do. The parents will be miserable because maybe they were expecting the kids to be happily engaged in their activities so that mom and dad could have some quiet time. Nobody's expectations were met ... everyone had a lousy cruise.

I'm not saying HAL is necessarily a bad choice for families. For some it may be perfect. You just have to know your kids well ... and what it takes to keep them entertained and happy.

Blue skies ...

--rita


I agree with you Rita.

On a larger Carnival ship and most definately on an RCL ship with the skating rink and all , those 400 kids that made the Noordam cruise a fiasco a couple of weeks ago wouldn't have even been noticeable to most pax.

[hammybee]

I think there is abit of misconception about what amenities are provided on the family oriented lines. The majority of Carnival ships have no more than HAL offers. One or two venues where kids can be overseen and congegrate. However, the tweens and teens very seldom wander there. Our 14 year old at the time spent most of his time running in packs of kids aroudn the ship. Its a kid dynamic, stay away from authority and keep together as a group.

My point is, except for the mega-ships with ice rinks and surf pools, HAL is right in line with its competition. The only thing that was missing was the advertising and now they are even doing that.

Those who do not sail other mass marketed cruise lines are prone to generalizations about what other cruise lines offer children. The majority of Carnival, RCL and NCL ships do not offer more than HAL. And those who do not have children are often more inclined to make these generalizations because they prefer to sail without children, on HAL.

Your observations that despite the gimicks offered on some of the ships, most children have a strong preference to just roam the so-called child friendly ships in packs, with the mindset you stated, plus bonus points to those that manage to take away a sovenier from those ships.

Families have been sailing with HAL forever during school breaks and will continue to do so. Those who prefer to encounter fewer children who do their homework sail while schools are in session or on longer intineraries.

We have sailed on HAL and been a part of the older demographic and on so-called child centric cruise lines and been in the younger demographic, the opposite of common misconception. It all matters when one sails, the intinerary and duration of the cruise.

[hammybee]

I agree with you Rita.

On a larger Carnival ship and most definately on an RCL ship with the skating rink and all , those 400 kids that made the Noordam cruise a fiasco a couple of weeks ago wouldn't have even been noticeable to most pax.

Except that there may be more than 1,000 kids onboard those ships and they are most definitely noticable.

[NDCruiser]

In the final analysis, it all boils down to knowing your kids and what will appeal to them. One person's "catering" is another person's "accommodating". Our now 17 year old daughter has been on 11 cruises--HAL, Disney, RCI, Princess, Carnival. She loved them all because we did our homework & she knew what to expect. She also knew what would happen if she stepped out of line, but that has never happened. That being said, I'm curious about how our 2 week Christmas cruise will work out with all the other families...

[Onessa]

Some people seem to lump all kids into one big demographic blob and assume that they all want the same things. Kids have as varied personalities, likes and dislikes as adults.

My Girl Scout troop consists of 10 girls all 10-11YO, all in the same grade, in the same school, in the same town - but when we discuss what do we want to do for the "end of school year" celebration I get at least six or seven wildly different answers. We have 'jocks' who want to go to a sports place and play volleyball and practice soccer (ooo, others complain "I might break an nail!". We have the rollercoaster junkies wanting to go to a theme park (and the equally vocal two-some who look a bit green just at the mention of an amusement park). We've got the fashionistas who want to go to a jewlerly making place (to which the jocks just scowl), we've got the scrappers who want to rent out Archivers, etc.!

Don't assume all kids want climbing walls and wave pools. Not only because not all kids want those things but also because there are a heck of a lot of adults on those walls and in those pools.

I encourage everyone who is considering a cruise, to pick a cruiseline, a ship and an itinerary that is condusive to who they are and what they want from their vacation. And if you are considering bringing your kids with, take their wants and needs into account as well.

[middle-aged mom]

..... I'm curious about how our 2 week Christmas cruise will work out with all the other families...

For Roz, our original poster, I thank you for a very good thread discussion!

To answer NDCruisers' question above: ND, I see that you and your family will be doing a very similar itinerary to the one we did last Christmas on HAL. We had a 14-day Southern Caribbean/Partial Panama Canal transit/Western Caribbean combination on the Amsterdam. We had 80 kids/teens on the cruise, and plenty of Club HAL counselors and great programs for them all. There were some extra fun activities like a family holiday craft evening, a visit from Santa Claus with presents for all the kids, Christmas caroling, lots of wonderful decorations and holiday music, a special holiday program put on by the staff, officers, and crew for the passengers, and just a plain old-fashioned good time for all. The itinerary is a perfect mix of sea days and port days. Our daughter had a terrific time in the program for 3-7 year olds. Towards the end of the cruise, all the kids put on a talent show in the Crow's Nest for the passengers.:)

Karin

[hammybee]

Towards the end of the cruise, all the kids put on a talent show in the Crow's Nest for the passengers.:)
Karin

Oh yeah sure, another group hogging the Crow's Nest. :)

[middle-aged mom]

Oh yeah sure, another group hogging the Crow's Nest. :)

Hammy, I know you're joking, and I also knew that if I threw my comment out there, someone like you would rise to my bait....;) :) No kidding, those kids hogged the Crow's Nest for almost an hour!!:eek:

Karin

[kryos]

Don't assume all kids want climbing walls and wave pools. Not only because not all kids want those things but also because there are a heck of a lot of adults on those walls and in those pools.

I encourage everyone who is considering a cruise, to pick a cruiseline, a ship and an itinerary that is condusive to who they are and what they want from their vacation. And if you are considering bringing your kids with, take their wants and needs into account as well.
Couldn't agree with you more. Sure, HAL is definitely appropriate for some kids ... but then there are others who would be bored stiff on a HAL cruise. The whole trick is knowing your kids ... and their likes and dislikes well. And, if you are not interested in catering to some extent to those wishes and desires, then do yourself and the kids (not to mention the other passengers on the ship) a big favor and leave the kids at home.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kakalina]

Awww Rita: You know you are just a big kid yourself! :D

[hog_wild]

Roz,
I love your post and I think that it brings up something that has "shifted" in our world. When I was a child, kids were seen and not heard. We were expected to act according to the situation at hand. My father was a laywer and we attended many coctail parties as children. Usualy the kids were to be seen and introduced; "gushed" over and then we (the kids) would head off to a seperate room where our basic needs were met. That is, we usually had snacks or dinner and "sodas". If we were at someone's home who had kids then we would play in one of their rooms, but if we were in public we were expected to act as if were are in public.

Today I have kids and I expect them to act according to where we are. In public they are to be respectful, say please and thank you; yes ma'am or no ma'am. We use inside voices and walk. We don't climb all over furniture, not that they won't try but they are quickly corrected. And the really funny part is that I don't see many other parents correcting their children. It's not PC to spank, or for children to have conciquences for their actions. I'm sorry but I think that this is half the problem, with the other half being the entertainment side.

We have cruised RCI, mainly because they sail from TX. I am really looking forward to our upcoming HAL cruise. I want my kids to grow up knowing how to act in all situations, and being on this ship is just one more lesson for them. I just wish that more parents out there were "old school" like us.

[MamaCat.]

Hog Wild,

I agree with you completely about many parents feeling like it isn't PC to "control" their children. While I believe in being open-minded and honest and also enjoy hearing and seeing my kids (and others) in public I am truly "old school" about their behavior. I have been horrified by some of the stories I have read on these boards. :eek: That said sometimes kids get out of hand particularly in groups but that is where parents step in. Well, that said I need to pack for our cruise (only4 days :D).

[kryos]

Awww Rita: You know you are just a big kid yourself! :D
So you must have seen me collecting all the red, white and blue helium balloons after dinner that one night. Can't help it. I just looooooove balloons. Of course, I couldn't help but wonder what the cabin steward thought the next morning ... especially since they were all down on the floor by then. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[NDCruiser]

Thanks for your input. I'm guessing that it is the exact same itinerary because it is also on the schedule for Christmas 2008. Glad to hear that HAL does it right because this will be our first Christmas at sea & the celebration of our 25th as well. Any other observations would be welcomed. :)

[O2B@C]

Roz, I love your post and I think that it brings up something that has "shifted" in our world. When I was a child, kids were seen and not heard. We were expected to act according to the situation at hand. .... Usualy the kids were to be seen and introduced; "gushed" over and then we (the kids) would head off to a seperate room where our basic needs were met. ....

Today I have kids and I expect them to act according to where we are. In public they are to be respectful, say please and thank you; yes ma'am or no ma'am. .... And the really funny part is that I don't see many other parents correcting their children. It's not PC to spank, or for children to have conciquences for their actions. I'm sorry but I think that this is half the problem, with the other half being the entertainment side. ... I want my kids to grow up knowing how to act in all situations, and being on this ship is just one more lesson for them. I just wish that more parents out there were "old school" like us.

Bravo to you for teaching your children to behave appropriately in social situations! I wish more parents today were like you.

It doesn't sound like you meant "seen and not heard" literally, though. I imagine you would agree that it's good for children to be "heard," as long as they do the best they can, at their age, to express what they have to say in a manner that fits the situation. Children can't learn social skills if they're not encouraged to make polite conversation with adults. But they shouldn't be pushed to endure the constraints of an adult social situation beyond their age-appropriate capacity. Instead, they should be given an alternative venue to which to retreat and play, as you were by your parents, who were obviously caring and sensitive about the issue.

I also agree with you 100% that children should learn that actions have consequences. I don't think, however, that the consequences should include physical discipline, except in rare emergency situations (e.g., a light swat on the rear when a toddler makes a run for it in a crowded place). Instead, I always tried to make the consequences fit the nature of the actions as closely as possible - e.g., if inappropriate rambunctiousness causes something to break or spill, they have to help clean up the mess; if they carelessly lose or break something that costs $ to replace, they have to do chores to "pay" the cost; if they disturb someone's peace and quiet, they have to apologize politely, in person. I don't think this is just a matter of spanking not being "PC." I have seen too many cases where parents have severely injured or even killed their children through actions the parents viewed as "discipline." I don't think hurting children physically teaches them anything other than that hurting other people is a justifiable act under some circumstances.

Sorry - I'll get off my soapbox now - I'm sure your "PC" remark wasn't meant to imply that hurting children physically is appropriate discipline.

[middle-aged mom]

Thanks for your input. I'm guessing that it is the exact same itinerary because it is also on the schedule for Christmas 2008. Glad to hear that HAL does it right because this will be our first Christmas at sea & the celebration of our 25th as well. Any other observations would be welcomed. :)

NDCruiser:

I'm happy to try to help you with any questions you may have; however, I will keep my comments on this thread related to the topic at hand, which is how HAL accommodates children. :) So if you have questions pertaining to other topics, please feel free to start a new thread, and I'll gladly try to answer you there.:)

If you'd like to read the review I wrote about our Amsterdam Holiday cruise, it's all right here (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=463160&highlight=Christmas), the good, the less-than-good, and even a "tragic" revelation at the end of the thread.........:eek: I wrote the review when the details from our trip were fresh in my memory.

Karin

[NDCruiser]

Karin:

I finally got a chance to read your review. This is just the info that I was looking for! We are boring people who like to read and play bridge, and we have a well-behaved teen daughter, so it looks like we booked the right cruise. Thanks! :)

Karen