A Formal Answer to My Email re Park West and the Rotterdam

[eldercruser]

I was among the many who voiced extreme disappointment regarding the decision allowing Park West to utilize the Crow's Nest during the recent Rotterdam Black Sea cruise.

Since we are departing on the Rotterdam in two weeks I voiced my concern in an email to HAL via the Mariner section of the HAL website. Not only did I state my unhappiness and disbelief that such an incident was allowed to occur, I also asked for some assurance it would not be repeated.

Today I received a formal answer from that very busy Special Advisor in the Office of the President. The letter is somewhat lengthy so at the risk of leaving out something germane, allow me to copy some key points of the letter.

"We realize in booking a large group that some problems might result. Unfortunately, we could not anticipate all situations. We have researched these stated concerns and have learned that the group in question was authorized to utilize the Crow's Nest for several different occasions. All such requests must be made in writing prior to sailing and must be approved by Holland America Line management. These steps were taken in this instance."

The letter went on to say it was determined during the course of the cruise that "the reservations for the Crow's Nest could be adjusted accordingly to allow our other guests more access to this public area."

Lastly this sentence: "We would also like to advise you that while there will most likely be some groups on your sailing, we have been assured that a similar situation will not arise on your sailing."

Let me make a couple of points. First I was surprised at the quickness of HAL's answer. The letter was dated May 15. This tells me our comments and criticism have hit home. Second, the fact that HAL management approved this unbelievable action in writing affirms to me the point I made in one of my Park West thread posts. HAL management just doesn't get it!

Hopefully, for all involved - customers, employees, and stockholders - this incident will provide a tutorial for future action.

[wandb]

Thanks, eldercruiser, for sharing HAL's response to your e-mail. Having read many of your posts, I know that your letter to them was well thought out. I imagine that you were able to really get your point across, at the same time being tactful and calm (catch more flies with honey than vinegar!!):)

I do hope that HAL has learned a lesson in all of this. I do not think they can afford to alienate their loyal, repeat cruisers. "Word of mouth" advertising goes a long way.

I was particularly happy to hear that we will not have to deal with this same situation on our upcoming cruise. Looking forward to meeting you at our "CC Meet and Greet" on board!

B.

[SakeDad]

"We realize in booking a large group that some problems might result. Unfortunately, we could not anticipate all situations. We have researched these stated concerns and have learned that the group in question was authorized to utilize the Crow's Nest for several different occasions. All such requests must be made in writing prior to sailing and must be approved by Holland America Line management. These steps were taken in this instance."
In other words, HAL pre-approved the closing of the Crow's Nest long before the cruise.

The letter went on to say it was determined during the course of the cruise that "the reservations for the Crow's Nest could be adjusted accordingly to allow our other guests more access to this public area."
So if it was determined DURING the cruise they should allow non-Park West guests in the Crow's Nest, why didn't they??

Lastly this sentence: "We would also like to advise you that while there will most likely be some groups on your sailing, we have been assured that a similar situation will not arise on your sailing."
But if it does, what recourse will you and the other passengers have?

Let me make a couple of points. First I was surprised at the quickness of HAL's answer. The letter was dated May 15. This tells me our comments and criticism have hit home. Second, the fact that HAL management approved this unbelievable action in writing affirms to me the point I made in one of my Park West thread posts. HAL management just doesn't get it!
AGREED!

Hopefully, for all involved - customers, employees, and stockholders - this incident will provide a tutorial for future action.
And agreed again.
Thanks for posting this.

[Vic The Parrot]

I do hope that HAL has learned a lesson in all of this. I do not think they can afford to alienate their loyal, repeat cruisers.





HAL gets away with alienating thier loyal customers all the time. Why should this be any different?

[eh2zed]

Thanks Eldercruiser. I was on the Rotterdam last week. It was unbelievable that while we cruised the Dardenelles and Bosphorus Strait in both directions Park West had the Crows Nest booked out. On one occasion a rain storm forced everyone inside but still couldn't use the Nest. People were furious. Corporate benefit over passengers.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks for posting your letter from HAL.

I still that there will be problems in the future. $$$$ talks. And as long as some of these groups are willing to pay the big bucks, they will get what they want.

[harbormaster]

Thanks much for the update on the letter from HAL. I hope that your cruise will be a great one and that the Crow's Nest is open. As Tomcanuck wrote, the biggest disappointment to us also was not being able to see the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus from that venue. And the rainstorm time would have been a perfect time to be there and relax.
HAL also took 4 days to even address our comment card and concerns and then only after we personally asked the Hotel Manager why our card had not even been acknowledged. It appeared to us that staff were asked not to provide any information on the situation. But even on the last sea day, the Crow's Nest was closed to passengers outside of Park West, so the situation did not really change much.
I have posted photos of the Crow's Nest on my original post regarding this matter.

[jhannah]

How sad HAL is willing to block out such premium space for more than a couple of hours at a time.

[Orcrone]

Thanks Eldercruiser. I was on the Rotterdam last week. It was unbelievable that while we cruised the Dardenelles and Bosphorus Strait in both directions Park West had the Crows Nest booked out. On one occasion a rain storm forced everyone inside but still couldn't use the Nest. People were furious. Corporate benefit over passengers.
But if you go back to the original thread the hotel manager claimed that their were only 9 comment cards addressing this issue, leading one to assume that it did not bother many passengers.:rolleyes:

[peaches from georgia]

But if you go back to the original thread the hotel manager claimed that their were only 9 comment cards addressing this issue, leading one to assume that it did not bother many passengers.:rolleyes:
Not at all. The HM said 9 comment cards had been turned in during the cruise up until that time . First of all a lot of people don't even know there are comment cards in the cabin folio and most wouldn't think of filling them out at that time or going to him in person to complain. You can be sure and certain that many many pax were furious and mentioned it on the final brochure thingy passed out for comments and ratings of the cruise on the last day.

[Copper10-8]

I don't believe there were any Germans involved in this drama;)

[Orcrone]

Not at all. The HM said 9 comment cards had been turned in during the cruise up until that time . First of all a lot of people don't even know there are comment cards in the cabin folio and most wouldn't think of filling them out at that time or going to him in person to complain. You can be sure and certain that many many pax were furious and mentioned it on the final brochure thingy passed out for comments and ratings of the cruise on the last day.
I agree Peaches. I'm going from memory, so I may be wrong. But my recollection was that the hotel manager played down the situation, stating that not many comment cards had been received regarding this issue.

I realize that people who had turned in a comment card were most probably a small percentage of the people upset about the situation.

[eldercruser]

I appreciate everyone's comments. The most telling point in all this is as SakeDad pointed out - the fact that HAL management approved this whole evolution long before the cruise began. Somewhere in the organization there is a senior executive who just doesn't understand customer loyalty or thinks that such actions will be quickly overlooked or forgotten. It is truly a recipe for eventual failure. I have seen it time and again.

[TravelinGrandma]

And you can bet that there were some people who never sent in a complaint, or filled out the comment card, that will NOT choose HAL the next time they cruise.
I certainly agree that HAL doesn't get it. But they are getting the $$$ from Park West. Maybe we should boycott the Art Auctions and let them know why?

[mamaofami]

Maybe we've been barking up the wrong tree. As has been suggested before, we should boycot the art auctions and tell them why. But maybe we should also be writing to Park West @sea and telling them exactly what we plan to do and why. Maybe if they lose money from the potential passengers, they might think twice before renting out the Crow's Nest for the whole cruise.

On the other hand, how many of the people on these boards are actually participating in these auctions. I bet not many.

[tomc]

Do you think Park West really gives a rat's @? And as long as the pax stay out of the Crow's Nest when it's "booked full cruise" that way, HAL won't either.

Maybe if people just very politely, in a very smiling and friendly manner, en masse, went there. Lots of them. As they were asked to leave, said, "Oh, I'll just be a minute," and did leave when asked, but delayed it as long as possible. Then returned.

Always friendly, always obeying the staff's requests. But more people than staff. No arguments, no refusal to leave; just take the long way, the slow way. Chat with the folks from Park West and let them know how nice their art is and how reasonable the prices are.

[MSammy]

If the Crow's Nest was closed for one evening for a private function--no problem. Closed for the entire cruise? Big problem. I honestly would expect compensation for the unuseable portion of my cruise. They can't, by law, advertise/promote a section of the ship then deny access the entire cruise. False advertisment in my book--anbd I work in...you guessed it...advertising.

[O2B@C]

If the Crow's Nest was closed for one evening for a private function--no problem. Closed for the entire cruise? Big problem. I honestly would expect compensation for the unuseable portion of my cruise. They can't, by law, advertise/promote a section of the ship then deny access the entire cruise. False advertisment in my book--anbd I work in...you guessed it...advertising.

I couldn't agree with you more. There are lots of other incentive "perks" that HAL can and DOES give to groups (e.g., OBC, special pricing, upgrades, seating together in DR, use of conference rooms) that do not exclude other passengers from access to benefits they rightly expected to enjoy as part of the cruise, and I have no objection to those. If the group needs the use of something larger than a conference room for something more than a short function, they can be accommodated in one of the bars that is functionally more or less similar to the others.

But the Crow's Nest, which HAL heavily promotes on its website, is a unique attraction, offering benefits that simply cannot be found elsewhere on the ship. This is particularly true during sea days, especially ones that feature scenic cruising such as going through the Bosphorus or the Dardanelles. To close off the Crow's Nest at a time like that is to deprive passengers of a considerable part of what they expected to get when they booked their cruise. False advertising, indeed.:eek:

[SakeDad]

Maybe we've been barking up the wrong tree. As has been suggested before, we should boycot the art auctions and tell them why. But maybe we should also be writing to Park West @sea and telling them exactly what we plan to do and why. Maybe if they lose money from the potential passengers, they might think twice before renting out the Crow's Nest for the whole cruise.

On the other hand, how many of the people on these boards are actually participating in these auctions. I bet not many.
I'll try it this week on the Noordam. If approached by a ParkWest person I'll politely explain I don't choose to do business with a company that actively excludes the very people they consider customers!:mad: Of course, this will be right after I drink their free cocktails and take whatever freebies I can get from them:rolleyes:

[Jade13]

Not at all. The HM said 9 comment cards had been turned in during the cruise up until that time . First of all a lot of people don't even know there are comment cards in the cabin folio and most wouldn't think of filling them out at that time or going to him in person to complain. You can be sure and certain that many many pax were furious and mentioned it on the final brochure thingy passed out for comments and ratings of the cruise on the last day.

I agree with Peaches. They usually mention the comment cards at the end of the cruise, on a disembark talk or before a show. I think most people would fill out one card at the end of the cruise.

[Jade13]

I'll try it this week on the Noordam. If approached by a ParkWest person I'll politely explain I don't choose to do business with a company that actively excludes the very people they consider customers!:mad: Of course, this will be right after I drink their free cocktails and take whatever freebies I can get from them:rolleyes:

Just fyi, if you go to/sign up for an auction, don't misplace your paddle, especially if you sign up and plan to come back later for the free champaigne or whatever else. My Dh had the paddle in his hand and took it back to the cabin, while I stood in line at the end of the auction. Besides the hardsell as to why I hadn't made a purchase (I was looking at several Dali's about $27K each), and dumb questions if he was going to fast for me (I've actually worked in Auction houses), the auctioneer sidekick refused to give me that free champagne even though I was clearly in their books.