Times change for the WORSE

[mariner]

Just reading that regular cruise service to Bermuda will END next year.

No more ships.

Bermuda won't develop piers for the megaships. They can't tie up at Front Street.

What a shame. I don't necessarily blame them.

I can't believe the harbor couldn't handle one of HAL's S class ships.

Been avoiding the commotion over AYW etc. Have been pretty close to cancelling next year's cruise on HAL out of disgust.

So much for delivering on my promise to Mrs. M to celebrate our 20th with a b-to-b cruise to Bermuda.

Can't believe the industry would abandon a port that started many a long cruise career.

I guess it's time to find another way to vacation.

[barante]

I hear you, but there are alternatives. For Azamara's Journey, a Celebrity sub-brand, But what's happening is that except for AJ, virtually all small ships are phased out. That means that except for AJ, no one will be able to navigate to St. George or Hamilton. They have to use facilities near King's Wharf.
Because of the bigger ships, the number of cruise visitors may in fact increase.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Good for Bermuda. They don't want the megaships there and I can completely understand that.

Staying on Bermuda is a wonderful alternative. It's a quick flight from NY/New England. We've been there many times ... particularly love The Reefs.

It's a honeymoon haven and a perfect place to celebrate an anniversary. Still, we did enjoy our 2 cruises out of NY to Bermuda, a particularly nice cruise.

[mariner]

But Heather, it was so nice to tie up at Front Street and have Bermuda as a front yard.

[HeatherInFlorida]

But Heather, it was so nice to tie up at Front Street and have Bermuda as a front yard.

I know ... my favorite port in the whole world. Just step off the ship and shop 'til you drop:D . My first cruise to Bermuda I was 17 years old. I fell in love.

Rent a scooter or a motorbike and zip over to Front Street:) .

[bicker]

FWIR, a lot of this was Bermuda's doing, and as others have alluded to, they're well within their rights to assert that kind of control over their nation; their house, their rules; and if that means an incompatibility with today's cruise industry, then so-be-it, and both sides should walk away amicably.

I guess it's time to find another way to vacation.I can help out with Walt Disney World as a destination resort. :)

[Krazy Kruizers]

We enjoyed our 2 cruises from New York - first one many years ago on NCL and then the Pacific Princess before she was sold.

[barante]

We will have our first taste of Bermuda in September. It was not on our agenda for this year, but we booked a seven-day cruise on the Norwegian Crown because (1) it was incredibly cheap (2) we wanted to experience the island with a small ship before everything changes.
As you can see from the article below Bermuda is trying to sell itself in Europe. The slide of the U.S. dollar has made Bermuda quite expensive for any Americans who do a land-based vacation. In comparison, cruises are still a steal.



http://www.theroyalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d77dbf30030014&sectionId=60
Govt. eyes European visitors


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Robyn Skinner

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bringing European visitors to the Island is the focus of a coordinated tourism initiative that also hopes to start a direct flight from mainland Europe.

The Bermuda Department of Tourism (BDOT), the Bermuda Hotel Association and the Bermuda Alliance for Tourism's marketing and airline committee have agreed on a plan for significant investment in Europe, particularly in the German and Italian markets.

[sail7seas]

NCL has cruised for years Boson to Bermuda but they are stopping after this season. We were very surprised to learn this about a month ago.

We sailed once on Zenith from New York to Bermuda. It was a nice cruise. Not one of our all time greats but it was okay.

Being from Boston, we have flown to Bermuda for resort vacations a number of times but not in many years. We had far too many impossibly rainy days and aren't willing to risk it anymore.

Trip after trip we kept getting rain........ groan.

[spindrift]

It is my understanding that Azamara will not be sailing the Bermuda route after this season as well.

[innlady1]

NCL has cruised for years Boson to Bermuda but they are stopping after this season. We were very surprised to learn this about a month ago.

We sailed once on Zenith from New York to Bermuda. It was a nice cruise. Not one of our all time greats but it was okay.

Being from Boston, we have flown to Bermuda for resort vacations a number of times but not in many years. We had far too many impossibly rainy days and aren't willing to risk it anymore.

Trip after trip we kept getting rain........ groan.




I first cruised to Bermuda in the 60's during college week!

Since then, we've had four or five land vacations there. In May and in June...rain, rain, rain. But our visits in September and October were magnificent.

I've heard, from guests staying at our inn, that Front Street has changed dramatically. Trimingham's and H. A. & E. Smith have closed.

It sounds like a "different" Bermuda. :(

[sail7seas]

That's right. The last time we were in Bermuda, the shopping on Front Street really wasn't anything like it used to be. Trimminghams had a small outlet looking place that in no way resembled the lovely store it used to be. I couldn't find anything that interested me at all.

The ship stayed several days on Front Street and then moved over to the other dock....King's Dock is it? They had done some development there and we found some nicer shops.

When the weather is beautiful in Bermuda, it's lovely. When it rains, it's not so great IMO. It is a very beautiful island with very, very nice, friendly people and gorgeous beaches.

[HeatherInFlorida]

.................
I've heard, from guests staying at our inn, that Front Street has changed dramatically. Trimingham's and H. A. & E. Smith have closed.

It sounds like a "different" Bermuda. :(

That saddens me so much ... both wonderful stores. And to think it's no longer what it once was is very depressing. Shopping in Hamilton was a cut above any island I've been to.

I haven't been to Bermuda in many years. But I've stayed on Bermuda more than any other place. We've been in September, November, February and July and must have just been fortunate because I don't think it rained on any visit.

I had no idea it had changed so much ... so disappointing.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I didn't realize that those stores closed. We always loved walking down Front Street.

[sail7seas]

KK....

Can you imagine being on Front Street for three days and not being able to find a single sweater to purchase? I used to love the beautiful sweaters in Trimmingham's and really looked forward to coming home with a few pretty ones for the following winter. Remember the Nordic pattern sweaters? The shetlands? How about Bermuda Bags? :)

Not a one!

[Krazy Kruizers]

On our NCL cruise we docked at St George's for a day and then Front Street for 2 days.

On our Princess cruise we docked at Front Street for 2 days and then 1 day at the Royal Naval Dock (King's Wharf).

[Krazy Kruizers]

Neither of us wears sweaters but I got our neighbors some beautiful items at Trimmingham's.

We loved it when Front Street was closed off one night for a street fair. I wonder if they do that anymore?

[dougnewmanatsea]

There are going to be regular services to Bermuda next year... Not to Hamilton, but certainly to Bermuda.

You can take the NORWEGIAN DAWN from New York to King's Wharf, NORWEGIAN DREAM from Boston to St. George's or NORWEGIAN MAJESTY from Baltimore to St. George's. Or EXPLORER OF THE SEAS from Bayonne (NJ) to King's Wharf or GRANDEUR OF THE SEAS from Baltimore to King's Wharf.

Also there are a number of ships making one-day calls on Caribbean cruises.

I guess the real question is - do any of these ships appeal to you? They don't really appeal to me, NORWEGIAN DAWN is probably the nicest of the bunch but really too big and the others... There just isn't appeal there. And who wants to go to King's Wharf anyway?

It is not really a matter of mega-ships or no mega-ships - there are plenty of smaller ships out there, it's just that they're not here. For example if you look at Azamara, they can make a lot more money putting those ships in Europe. They're not dummies; Europe is the place to be right now so that's where the ships are going. The North American mass-market lines are getting rid of their older, smaller ships (e.g. HORIZON/ZENITH, EMPRESS OF THE SEAS, soon NORWEGIAN DREAM and MAJESTY which will be a big blow to St. George's!) and the smaller upscale ships like the Azamara ships, the Oceania ships and all the various luxury lines all want to be in Europe where they can make a lot more money in the summer.

Personally I think an S-class ship would do well (and they do fit in Hamilton) but with HAL abandoning even the Caribbean trade from NY (again :( ) I don't see that happening.

I wish I could have fit in a JOURNEY cruise this summer to say "goodbye" but I guess my ZENITH cruise last year will have been my last to Bermuda, for the foreseeable future anyway. Only way I can see going now is if some friends want to do a cruise from NYC in which case it would be a possibility (I'd still rather go to Bermuda than the Caribbean). Otherwise... No, it just doesn't make it.

And for those who ask if Bermuda has changed, indeed it has, I still like it but it's true that it isn't the same as it used to be. With fewer cruise ships (especially, obviously, in Hamilton!) and many of the hotels gone in favor of condos, the atmosphere is changing with fewer "regular" visitors like us and more of the ultra-rich condo-owning crowd. Shopping etc. in Hamilton is being replaced gradually by gleaming corporate headquarters for all the financial and insurance companies based there. That's not to say that the place has gone through a radical transformation of some sort but it's certainly not what it was 10 years ago (or 20, 30, etc., as I suppose it did not change much for quite a while ;) ).

[bobpatj]

Oh my! :eek: We honeymooned in Bermuda, flew there for our 25th anniversary, both times in early August. We've looked forward to cruising there for our 50th (some years away, yet). I hope it might still be a possibility. :(

[bigtom57]

My first 2 cruises (1975 & 1976) were NYC to Hamilton so Bermuda has lots of sentimential memories. Went there in May 2005 to St. George and Hamilton on Celebrity Horizon from Norfolk VA before Celebrity sold the Horizon. Trimminghams was holding their going out of business sale. Since it had been 29 years between Bermuda visits we were surprised how little it had changed. Sure the population had increased and therefore the number of homes but the people are still wonderful and the beaches are still great.

[Copper10-8]

Lucky enough to have been to Bermuda once on RCCL's Nordic Empress out of NYC in AUG 99. Docked at St. George's and Hamilton complete with town crier upon arrival. Great island, nice people! I don't blame their government one bit for putting tight restrictions on the cruise industry. They don't want their beautiful home to turn into Charlotte Amalie:eek: ; more power to them! I've been hoping for HAL to get permission to make semi-regular runs there with i.e. Prinsendam, too bad it won't happen!

[arzz]

Wow! Reading this thread puts a whole new light on our Azamara Journey cruise to Bermuda on August 11! We have wanted to see Bermuda one way or another for several years. We had booked Bermuda on the Zenith last fall (the week that the Hurricane went there instead of us) -- and since we had to cancel our South Pacific cruise this past June, we thought we would give Bermuda another attempt. Now I am rather glad that we did and curious about Azamara. I will report when I return.

[HeatherInFlorida]

And who wants to go to King's Wharf anyway?



Doug, you took the words right out of my keyboard!!!:) No interest in that.

I think I could drive around Bermuda blind. That's how well I know that wonderful island. I'm puzzled about Trimingham's and other stores closing because they were there long before all the cruise ships started their visits.

My first cruise to Bermuda out of NY was in 1959 (if you can believe that:) ) on the Queen of Bermuda. Back then I believe the only other ship cruising there was the Ocean Monarch (also Furness Lines). I'm sure Doug will know!

The same wonderful stores lined Front Street then that were there up until my last visit. I bought all sorts of sweaters, kilts and of course the famous Bermuda bags. I never really thought of those stores as strictly tourist at all and the people we visited on the island from time to time certainly frequented those stores.

Oh, well. Nothing lasts forever I guess .... including me:( .

[Dolphins]

Good for Bermuda. They don't want the megaships there and I can completely understand that.

Staying on Bermuda is a wonderful alternative. It's a quick flight from NY/New England. We've been there many times ... particularly love The Reefs.

It's a honeymoon haven and a perfect place to celebrate an anniversary. Still, we did enjoy our 2 cruises out of NY to Bermuda, a particularly nice cruise.

Cruising has always been the most economical way to enjoy this beautiful island. We have stayed at an enjoyed both Reefs and Elbow Beach Hotel but the current rates, combined with taxes and service fees are very high. In addition, the air fares are double the fares to Florida for flying half the distance. Finally, it's difficult for a couple to dine in a Bermuda restarant for less than $100. Makes the cruise ship specialty restaurants a real bargain.

We intend to take advantage of the 2007 fall cruises still available to both St. George and Hamilton on both the Azamara Journey and Norwegian Crown this year as both ships will not be available to Bermuda next year. It's possible to spend two weeks on those ships for less than a week in a luxury Bermuda hotel, plus airfare and meals. In fall 2008, we will take the Norwegian Dawn even though King's Wharf is not as attractive as the other Bermuda ports, it's still the best way to enjoy the island. Anything to avoid flying anywhere.

Finally, the Bermuda Gazette has printed some of the plans for the extensive revitalization of Hamilton which will take place in 2008. In those plans, a new, longer cruise dock will be built at an angle to Front Street. It will be able to dock one larger ship rather than two smaller ones which will not bring an increase in cruise passengers who currently visit the port. It will be interesting to see which cruise lines get to use the new Hamilton pier in 2009?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Dolphins, I know you're right and Bermuda has always been expensive. I'm I'm sure it is even more so now. We've also stayed at Elbow Beach!!!:)

I only suggested it because Mariner so wanted to celebrate their 20th anniversary there.

Won't they still have a problem with ships coming thru the entrance to Hamilton harbor? If my recollection serves, it's a very narrow passage. So even if they build the new dock they'll still only be able to accept the smaller ships.

I doubt they would want the megaships anyway.

[Ask4Jay]

There is yet another way to see Bermuda: Oceania’s Regatta (about 700 pax) will stop in St. George for Thanksgiving on the way from Barcelona to Miami. Never had any desire to cruise to Bermuda and sit at the dock for 2 or 3 days. We do prefer sea days. However, now that are stopping there, what can we do in St. George between 8 am and 4 pm?
Any suggestions? Thanks,

[CrystalLady]

Regent Seven Seas Navigator will sail an 11-night cruise round trip FLL next April that includes 3 days in Hamilton and 1 in St. George. Seven Seas Mariner will sail a 12-night cruise round trip FLL, also next April, that includes the same amount of time in Bermuda. The Mariner cruise will feature some of the Antiques Roadshow experts on board.

[HeatherInFlorida]

What a fantastic cruise!!! Oh how I wish I could afford it, but we just can't. I would love to be on the Mariner cruise with the Antiques Roadshow experts. Maybe in 2010 ... our 25th Anniversary!!!:D

Doesn't work for Mariner, though. I think he wants something out of the NE.

[RevNeal]

Why doesn't HAL provide at least a few trips dedicated trips to Bermuda round-trip out of NYC, Boston, or Norfolk every year? The S-class ships would be PERFECT for that run?

[babyher]

I will actually be going to Bermuda for the first time in April 2008.

This will be the first time we'll be taking the kids on a cruise. They have been bugging us, and it looks like a nice getaway.

We will be docking overnight at Kings Wharf . Just seeing a few posts here. is Kings Wharf a bad place as opposed to other areas?

[Dolphins]

Dolphins, I know you're right and Bermuda has always been expensive. I'm I'm sure it is even more so now. We've also stayed at Elbow Beach!!!:)

I only suggested it because Mariner so wanted to celebrate their 20th anniversary there.

Won't they still have a problem with ships coming thru the entrance to Hamilton harbor? If my recollection serves, it's a very narrow passage. So even if they build the new dock they'll still only be able to accept the smaller ships.

I doubt they would want the megaships anyway.


It's St. George that has the real narrow passage too small for larger ships. Hamilton harbor is tricky but larger ships can get in there but the current piers are too small to dock them.

[Dolphins]

Why doesn't HAL provide at least a few trips dedicated trips to Bermuda round-trip out of NYC, Boston, or Norfolk every year? The S-class ships would be PERFECT for that run?

At 55,000 tons (bigger than the Titanic), the S-Class ships are too large to currently enter St. George or dock in Hamilton. Ships currently berthing there (Azamara Journey & Norwegian Crown) are of the mid 30,000 ton size.

[Copper10-8]

Why doesn't HAL provide at least a few trips dedicated trips to Bermuda round-trip out of NYC, Boston, or Norfolk every year? The S-class ships would be PERFECT for that run?

I could be wrong here, Rev (somebody correct me please, if I am - Doug;) ) but I'm pretty sure HAL has to first obtain permission/get a contract from the Bermuda government in order to start doing "regular" seasonal cruises to the island. (as opposed to every once in a while i.e. on a trans-atlantic crossing) Those contracts have, over the last several years, been in the hands of four lines namely Carnival, NCL, RCI, and Celebrity. Bermuda does not want any more lines so unless one of those drops out, HAL's out luck.


At 55,000 tons (bigger than the Titanic), the S-Class ships are too large to currently enter St. George or dock in Hamilton. Ships currently berthing there (Azamara Journey & Norwegian Crown) are of the mid 30,000 ton size.


Making Prinsendam perfect for it!:)

[dougnewmanatsea]

My first cruise to Bermuda out of NY was in 1959 (if you can believe that:) ) on the Queen of Bermuda. Back then I believe the only other ship cruising there was the Ocean Monarch (also Furness Lines). I'm sure Doug will know!
If you don't have it already, you want the book "The QUEEN OF BERMUDA and the Furness-Bermuda Line" by Piers Plowman and our own Stephen Card. Trust me ;) .

Finally, the Bermuda Gazette has printed some of the plans for the extensive revitalization of Hamilton which will take place in 2008. In those plans, a new, longer cruise dock will be built at an angle to Front Street. It will be able to dock one larger ship rather than two smaller ones which will not bring an increase in cruise passengers who currently visit the port. It will be interesting to see which cruise lines get to use the new Hamilton pier in 2009?
Interesting. I hadn't seen this. Sounds like a good compromise to me.

Celebrity has stated that it would like to return to Bermuda in the future with a CENTURY-class ship. I have no idea if this will or won't happen (after all, at one time they said JOURNEY would be back in 2008!) but if it did I guess CENTURY would be the most likely ship. That I would do without hesitation - OK, I'd rather have HAL, but beggar's cant be choosers ;) .

Why doesn't HAL provide at least a few trips dedicated trips to Bermuda round-trip out of NYC, Boston, or Norfolk every year? The S-class ships would be PERFECT for that run?
I guess they simply feel they can make more in Alaska and Europe. I'm sure they can make more in Europe; not quite sure of Alaska though but then it still seems amazingly strong given the amount of capacity up there. Especially for HAL of course, given the fact that HAL and Princess (which has more capacity) still dominate the Alaska market.

And of course, aside from those Boston-based MAASDAM cruises, HAL seems to have really little interest in the East Coast north of Jacksonville. I guess they know what they're doing. Certainly a lot of money was spent advertising here for NOORDAM's cruises and I imagine the amount of money spent on that simply couldn't be justified by the yields on those cruises.

Trust me, the idea of sending S-class ships to Bermuda has been suggested to HAL several times, both by yours truly and a number of others I know. The response is always a polite, "thanks, we'll consider it", and I have no reason to believe that it's not considered - indeed, what isn't considered from time to time? - but the decision never comes out in favor.

We will be docking overnight at Kings Wharf . Just seeing a few posts here. is Kings Wharf a bad place as opposed to other areas?
No, not bad at all. Actually it's quite nice. It's just that you need to take the bus or ferry to get to the other parts of the island. Hamilton is much more centrally located. Also Hamilton and St. George are "real towns" whereas King's Wharf is essentially a tourist development, albeit one built from the remnants of the old Royal Naval Dockyard.

My negative reference to King's Wharf above was somewhat sarcastic - it's actually a nice place but I prefer Hamilton and above all for those of us who have been cruising to Bermuda for 10, 20 or 50 years, we like it because that's how it's always been done.

At 55,000 tons (bigger than the Titanic), the S-Class ships are too large to currently enter St. George or dock in Hamilton.
I'm pretty sure the S-class ships can fit in Hamilton... Barely.

St George, I think, is out of the question.

On the other hand the 50,000 GT NORWEGIAN DREAM can get into St. George but not Hamilton... A long and skinny ship by virtue of being stretched. In contrast the S-class ships are kind of short and fat ;) .

At 48,000 GT, EMPRESS OF THE SEAS can fit in both. A tall box, she is still both short enough and narrow enough to fit in either port.

I could be wrong here, Rev (somebody correct me please, if I am - Doug;) ) but I'm pretty sure HAL has to first obtain permission/get a contract from the Bermuda government in order to start doing "regular" seasonal cruises to the island. (as opposed to every once in a while i.e. on a trans-atlantic crossing) Those contracts have, over the last several years, been in the hands of four lines namely Carnival, NCL, RCI, and Celebrity. Bermuda does not want any more lines so unless one of those drops out, HAL's out luck.
My understanding is that it's all different now. No more contracts, just a limit on how many cruise pax can be on the island in one day. Any cruise line or ship can come as long as it isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back as far as the number of pax on that particular day. At least that's what I've been told - the real Bermuda experts will know better.

If there still are contracts they are, at the very least, far less restrictive. They used to be for specific lines, of course, for a specific size and age of a ship, to call a specific number of times a year for a specific duration and so on.

Celebrity and/or NCL might still have a valid contract(s) but I'm pretty sure that if the whole contract thing hasn't gone the way of the dodo, it's about to.

These contracts were once very lucrative and fought over by many lines. For years Carnival tried to get in but Bermuda simply refused to allow any Carnival ships into the country - the "wrong crowd"!

Other things have changed in Bermuda too - for example you can now have live entertainment on the ship at night! I remember when that was strictly off limits on the basis that it would take away the business of the local bars etc.!

[Copper10-8]

Thanks Doug! No Eurodam inaugural for you and parents next year?;)

[Former Goalie]

"I wish I could have fit in a JOURNEY cruise this summer to say "goodbye" but I guess my ZENITH cruise last year will have been my last to Bermuda, for the foreseeable future anyway. Only way I can see going now is if some friends want to do a cruise from NYC in which case it would be a possibility (I'd still rather go to Bermuda than the Caribbean). Otherwise... No, it just doesn't make it."

We looked at a Journey cruise this summer, IMHO the pricing was ridiculous.
We sailed the Radisson (Regent) Navigator summer '04, docked on Front Street for two nights, one day in St. Georges. Unllike Journey, the pricing for that cruise was fantastic. We absolutely loved Bermuda.
We were fortunate enough to shop Trimingham's before it closed, and wandered up and down Front Street.
I am bewildered that the N. American market can't support one nice small to mid size ship, capable of docking at Front Street, for a seven day out of NYC/Norfolk/Philly.

[babyher]

Doug,

Thank you very much for the info. :)

I know how you feel , I much prefer seeing the "real towns" as opposed to the tourist traps.

Seeing we will be there for two days , we will certainly have plenty of time to get over to see Hamiliton and St. George.

Thank you again.

[HeatherInFlorida]

If you don't have it already, you want the book "The QUEEN OF BERMUDA and the Furness-Bermuda Line" by Piers Plowman and our own Stephen Card. Trust me ;) ...................

Not available on Amazon!!!:) Guess I'll have to research to find it. Stephen and I have had many fun discussions about Bermuda on this board ... he's familiar with many people in Bermuda who I have known ... 6 degrees of separation:) !

Thanks, Doug ... I will look for this.

[Dolphins]

"I wish I could have fit in a JOURNEY cruise this summer to say "goodbye" but I guess my ZENITH cruise last year will have been my last to Bermuda, for the foreseeable future anyway. Only way I can see going now is if some friends want to do a cruise from NYC in which case it would be a possibility (I'd still rather go to Bermuda than the Caribbean). Otherwise... No, it just doesn't make it."

We looked at a Journey cruise this summer, IMHO the pricing was ridiculous.
We sailed the Radisson (Regent) Navigator summer '04, docked on Front Street for two nights, one day in St. Georges. Unllike Journey, the pricing for that cruise was fantastic. We absolutely loved Bermuda.
We were fortunate enough to shop Trimingham's before it closed, and wandered up and down Front Street.
I am bewildered that the N. American market can't support one nice small to mid size ship, capable of docking at Front Street, for a seven day out of NYC/Norfolk/Philly.


When Celebrity first introduced the Journey, their original prices were ridiculous. Since they formed Azamara Cruises, the Journey prices have come down considerably. You can get a balcony cabin in September and October to Bermuda for under $1,500pp, a 7 day cruise out of NYC docking only in St. George and Hamilton. A truly last chance cruise?

[CruiseJude]

I will actually be going to Bermuda for the first time in April 2008.

This will be the first time we'll be taking the kids on a cruise. They have been bugging us, and it looks like a nice getaway.

We will be docking overnight at Kings Wharf . Just seeing a few posts here. is Kings Wharf a bad place as opposed to other areas?


Babyher:

We will be docked at Kings Wharf for three days in November. I'll let you know how it is when we return.

A few years back we did the Hamilton/St. George's cruise on Celebrity two years in a row and loved both of those trips, but can certainly understand how the mega ships can't dock at either one. We rode our scooters over to Kings Wharf during those cruises, but I've read that it's been built up quite a bit over the years.

[barante]

I checked both amazon.com and abebooks.com for Piers Plowman's Queen of Bermuda book. The cheapest copy is $95.
Must be one hell of a book.

[HeatherInFlorida]

............... The cheapest copy is $95.
Must be one hell of a book.

$$$***$$$ ... not in my price range!!!:) Maybe I can get a "loaner" somewhere:D

[dougnewmanatsea]

We looked at a Journey cruise this summer, IMHO the pricing was ridiculous.
It's gone down since then but by then my summer plans were already all set.

The initial pricing was absolutely out of line.

We sailed the Radisson (Regent) Navigator summer '04, docked on Front Street for two nights, one day in St. Georges.
We booked one of those (I think it was in '03) but had to cancel :( .

You're right about the pricing - we got a balcony suite on NAVIGATOR for less (I kid you not) than we could have gotten a regular outside cabin on ZENITH or NORWEGIAN CROWN for!

Unfortunately those cruises were Wednesday to Wednesday (not popular) and were also not really marketed well... The whole thing was just a disaster for RSSC, but a heck of a deal for those of us who could take advantage!

I am bewildered that the N. American market can't support one nice small to mid size ship, capable of docking at Front Street, for a seven day out of NYC/Norfolk/Philly.
Oh, it can support it - after all, it's supporting three this summer! It's just that the mass-market lines are giving their smaller ships to their overseas subsidiaries (who are generally hungry for more older tonnage) and the more upscale smaller ships can make more money in Europe.

Basically, smaller ships are now so scarce in the North American market that they must be carefully positioned in the very highest-yield market. Right now the highest-yield market in the summer is Europe... This is why next year of the eight former R ships, seven will be in Europe in the summer, along with PRINSENDAM, the Crystal ships, the Silversea ships, Seabourn ships, two Regent ships...

I checked both amazon.com and abebooks.com for Piers Plowman's Queen of Bermuda book. The cheapest copy is $95.
Must be one hell of a book.
It's a great book but I can't honestly say I'd spend $95 on it. Just order it here (http://www.bmm.bm/BMM_publications.htm) from its publisher, the Bermuda Maritime Museum... $50 with free shipping anywhere in the world.

[Former Goalie]

"The whole thing was just a disaster for RSSC, but a heck of a deal for those of us who could take advantage!"

You got that right, Radisson/Regent treats you like royalty. Amazed to find the menu of booze (some top shelf 1 liter!) to choose from to make the two bottle gratis selection from for this seven day cruise, in the stateroom. Then, the wine pours freely in the DR every night. If you order room service for dinner, it was served on crisp linens with nice utensils and glassware, and they'd send a bottle of wine up (gratis) with every meal.
Boy, I'll never forget that cruise!

[mamaofami]

We honeymooned at the Castle Harbor in Bermuda and rode motor bikes all over the island. In those days, there weren't many cars. We cruised there out of NYC in June of 1990, on what I think is the present Prinsendam, if my research about that ship is correct.

[dougnewmanatsea]

We cruised there out of NYC in June of 1990, on what I think is the present Prinsendam, if my research about that ship is correct.
I won't say that's impossible but frankly it does seem a bit unlikely.

My guess is it was one of the original Royal Viking ships - STAR, SKY, or SEA.

I doubt the then-almost-new SUN would have been engaged in the Bermuda trade.

[HeatherInFlorida]

................ We cruised there out of NYC in June of 1990, on what I think is the present Prinsendam, if my research about that ship is correct.

Doug is correct. The ship you most likely cruised on was the NCL M/S Westward which was the former Royal Viking Star. We were on her in 1992 from NY to Bermuda.

Under Royal Cruise Line ownership, she sailed as the M/S Star Odyssey.

In 1996 Fred. Olsen acquired her, made modifications including adding 22 balcony suites (in place of the library) and she now sails as the Black Watch out of Southampton.

[babyher]

Babyher:

We will be docked at Kings Wharf for three days in November. I'll let you know how it is when we return.

A few years back we did the Hamilton/St. George's cruise on Celebrity two years in a row and loved both of those trips, but can certainly understand how the mega ships can't dock at either one. We rode our scooters over to Kings Wharf during those cruises, but I've read that it's been built up quite a bit over the years.


Thank you very much. I would appreciate any info or tips you can provide. I will keep an eye out for your posts.

Thank you again :)

[dougnewmanatsea]

In 1996 Fred. Olsen acquired her, made modifications including adding 22 balcony suites (in place of the library) and she now sails as the Black Watch out of Southampton.
Actually the balcony suites were added in 2005. There are balconies now in standard cabins too, even a few singles.

That library it replaced was in place of a lounge and was far larger than the RVL-era library (which became a smoking room). It was immediately forward of the existing balcony suites, all this having been added during the stretch.

Now the library is in the former nightclub, as this was found to be very much underused.

The same refit also gave her new engines etc. At the time it was expected to extend her life by about 15 years which would put her retirement somewhere around 2020 at an age of 48 :) .

She will be returning to New York on an "Atlantic Coast" cruise in October for the first time in I don't know how long. I saw her in Copenhagen in 2005 and she looked great!

[HeatherInFlorida]

.....................
She will be returning to New York on an "Atlantic Coast" cruise in October for the first time in I don't know how long. I saw her in Copenhagen in 2005 and she looked great!

Oh wow!!!! That's fantastic!:) I sure wish I had known ... I would have loved to do that cruise on her. I thought she was strictly overseas. Our honeymoon was on the Royal Viking Sea, then the Westward (Star) in '92. It would have been fun to cruise on a former RV ship even though much changed ... one of our all time favorite cruise lines in its day.

[Don Haynes]

Actually St. George is more limited by its turn around radius than the gap. Its the same with Hamiliton. It won't be long before the only port which can handle any ship above 50 housand tons will be Kings Warf. At least Bermuda is expanding it to two larger ships. Currently Kings Warf handles one larger ship at a time.

Bermuda is not going to ruin its reefs to handle larger ships. Of the major cruise lines all of them are going to larger ships. I believe NCL's Crown has been sold to Fred Olsen lines and she will be transferrred after this summer. Next year the Majesty will leave Boston to replace her in New York, whereas the Dream will replace the Majesty in Boston. Unfortuanetly the Dream leaves the fleet after next summer's cruises while the Majesty continues in New York. And it appears that the Majesty will leave NCL's fleet during the next year.

[booklady26]

My very first cruise was to Bermuda on the old Volendam in 1981. HAL actually had 2 ships doing the NY to Bermuda runs then. The Volendam left on Saturday and the Veendam on Sunday.

Until "Homeport Cruising" became popular post 9/11, Bermuda was about the only option for sailing out of NYC. For many years, HAL, Home Lines and Chandris were the only games in town. Home was acquired by HAL and Chandris went upscale and became Celebrity. Then NCL and RCI entered the picture.

Docking on Front Street and using the ship as a floating hotel for 3 days was great. I can't tell you how many rum swizzles I've consumed all those nights at the Hog Penny. :D

I always thought that Bermuda was the most civilzed place on earth full of wonderful people. With a fairily high standard of living, little unemployment and low crime rate the island was truly a paradise. Even the children were well mannered. I once saw 3 teenage boys sitting near the front on a public bus get up simultaneously to offer their seat to an elderly lady who had just gotten on. Can you imagine kids here doing something like that?

[dougnewmanatsea]

Oh wow!!!! That's fantastic!:) I sure wish I had known ... I would have loved to do that cruise on her. I thought she was strictly overseas.
The call is part of a 51-day cruise round-trip Dover, though you can also book it as a 31-day Dover-Montreal or 20-day Montreal-Dover. Full itinerary here (http://www.fredolsencruises.com/fredolsen/process/cruises/details/code=BW767,restrictResults=,year=2007.html).

But next year the "new" BALMORAL will be doing this (http://www.fredolsencruises.com/fredolsen/process/cruises/details/code=BL025,restrictResults=,year=2008.html) round-trip from New York. (But she is not a former RVL ship; she is the former CROWN ODYSSEY/NORWEGIAN CROWN.) This coming spring she has four cruises from Miami and and next winter/spring there is a full program of 11 Miami-based cruises.

Fred. Olsen's target for these cruises is a 20% North American/80% British passenger mix.

I believe NCL's Crown has been sold to Fred Olsen lines and she will be transferrred after this summer. Next year the Majesty will leave Boston to replace her in New York, whereas the Dream will replace the Majesty in Boston. Unfortuanetly the Dream leaves the fleet after next summer's cruises while the Majesty continues in New York. And it appears that the Majesty will leave NCL's fleet during the next year.
MAJESTY is going to Baltimore. New York gets DAWN to King's Wharf.

2008 will be DREAM's only year from Boston as it is her last year in the NCL fleet. MAJESTY may or may not stick around for 2009, but if she does that will her last year.

It will be interesting if NCL positions a ship on the Boston-Bermuda run in 2009 or abandons it. (This has been quite profitable for NCL since taking over Majesty Cruise Lines in 1997.)

[mamaofami]

Doug is correct. The ship you most likely cruised on was the NCL M/S Westward which was the former Royal Viking Star. We were on her in 1992 from NY to Bermuda.

Under Royal Cruise Line ownership, she sailed as the M/S Star Odyssey.

In 1996 Fred. Olsen acquired her, made modifications including adding 22 balcony suites (in place of the library) and she now sails as the Black Watch out of Southampton.


Thanks for the info Heather and Doug. I thought it might have been the SUn, but I really can't recall. I guess I'll have to change my lists of cruise ships under my signature.

[barante]

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d77faf30030021&sectionId=60

Published: July 31. 2007 08:28AM

Losing cruise ships would harm City's image, says Madeiros


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sam Strangeways

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Curtailing the number of cruise ships in Hamilton will "severely impact" the city's image, Mayor Sutherland Madeiros warned last night.


**
As a retired journalist I must say that's one of the best bylines I've seen.

[Welove2cruise2]

NCL has cruised for years Boson to Bermuda but they are stopping after this season. We were very surprised to learn this about a month ago.

We sailed once on Zenith from New York to Bermuda. It was a nice cruise. Not one of our all time greats but it was okay.

Being from Boston, we have flown to Bermuda for resort vacations a number of times but not in many years. We had far too many impossibly rainy days and aren't willing to risk it anymore.

Trip after trip we kept getting rain........ groan.




Now that I've read through the entire thread I see that Host Doug and many others have discovered there will be ships sailing to Bermuda.

We just returned from our Majesty cruise to Bermuda and had a wonderful time. The food was excellent on this trip -- better than last year, due to a new executive chef. Yes, the Majesty is an older, smaller ship without all the glitz and glamour of the newer ships, but for this trip she's just right -- not too big, plenty of deck space and dining venues, TINY cabins! But the real appeal to this ship is the destination -- what could be better than spending 3 1/2 days in St. George's! We will miss her in Boston, but will definitely book the Dream next summer (when the prices go down!!).

[sail7seas]

It's funny that it was Shore Ops people working Maasdam's disembarkation/embarkation that told me NCL was stopping their Bermuda cruises.

:) Maybe they were 'encouraging' us to be sure to book Maasdam again for next summer. Not that they need to 'urge' us...... We're the first to book Canada/New England each year, I think.