Safety issue on Disney Wonder

[luckysadie]

On a recent cruise on the Disney Wonder my DH and I observed a mother advising her young (7-8 yrs old) to go from the Walt Disney Theater up to the top deck by himself to get a free soda before the show. I know that, because it's a Disney cruise, that parents sometimes relax and don't worry about anything bad happening, but it was night time and we were watching a late showing of a new movie. Fortunately, he soon came back safe and sound, but I shudder to think of the things that could have happened.

[metrowon]

I think your concerns are genuine, I just disagree with your assumptions. Maybe part of the higher fare cost, and lack of last minute deals has to do with Disney Security. Each time I walk onto a Disney ship, I feel confident that Disney has done a complete and thorough background check on you. While we have read, or heard about crimes at sea, a ship is really a poor choice, for the type of activity of your concerns. That doesn't mean something bad can't happen, just that I feel confident that Disney already knows your record, before you board. As for the situation you mentioned, about going to the drink area, and encountering a problem. Maybe the parent that let that happen was not real responsible. But because you are responsible, did you follow the child to make sure of their safety? That is the real question? And if you did not follow the child to insure it's safety, why not? Just think if something bad actually happened to that child, while you were complaining about another parent's behavior, when you had an opportunity to help. Metrowon

[Kim&Chris]

Luckysadie, I agree with you completely. I've seen kids roaming the halls by themselves and it is scary. Especially when you see very young children - just 5 or 6, wandering by themselves without supervision. Some parents have very little brain cells. Allowing little ones to go off on their own, NO MATTER WHERE THEY MAY BE, is one of the most irresponsible thing a parent can do, in my opinion. It would take no time to simply take a child's hand and take him up to get a beverage. I'd rather do that, than take a risk like you've described.

You're probably right; people assume because it's DISNEY, they're automatically safe. The reality is that anything can happen, anywhere you are. There is no way that Disney can be aware of the propensity & habits of every passenger on the ship. The employees, yes, but the passengers, no. That would be astronomically impossible.

[honeydog714]

(adding crew and passangers together) there has to be at least one bad apple. Yes I have seen children at midnight playing on the stair case with no parent in sight. Our child was not allowed unsupervised until the age of ten and even then it was to go right there (for the soda) and right back and under no circumstances go into someone's cabin. We have been on many disney cruises and i have never once heard of a child being abducted into a cabin or snatched into the laundry room.

[CP3o]

We have to let parents parent as they see fit, I know I had MUCH more freedom than I give my kids. I, personally, would keep a tighter leash on them, especially that young. I think RCCL lets kids out of kids club in small 2-3 person groups starting at age 9 so I think there is a safety in numbers attitude but I'm too overprotective for that.

http://www.wftv.com/news/10672770/detail.html

[metrowon]

Luckysadie, I agree with you completely. I've seen kids roaming the halls by themselves and it is scary. Especially when you see very young children - just 5 or 6, wandering by themselves without supervision. Some parents have very little brain cells. Allowing little ones to go off on their own, NO MATTER WHERE THEY MAY BE, is one of the most irresponsible thing a parent can do, in my opinion. It would take no time to simply take a child's hand and take him up to get a beverage. I'd rather do that, than take a risk like you've described.

You're probably right; people assume because it's DISNEY, they're automatically safe. The reality is that anything can happen, anywhere you are. There is no way that Disney can be aware of the propensity & habits of every passenger on the ship. The employees, yes, but the passengers, no. That would be astronomically impossible. From the time your payment is due, is 75 day's in advance. Maybe some of Disney's higher cost have to do with passenger screening, on everyone. And as you stated, it wold take no time to take a child's hand to insure their safety. And as I stated earlier, you could have insured that child's safety, by taking 2 minute's out of your cruise time, if you were so concerned, to have shadowed that child. Metrowon

[Moeve]

I do agree that kids should be looked after BUT don't your kids walk from school or are they not allowed to ride their bike in the neighbourhood??

[Buterfly3547]

because you are responsible, did you follow the child to make sure of their safety? That is the real question? And if you did not follow the child to insure it's safety, why not? Just think if something bad actually happened to that child, while you were complaining about another parent's behavior, when you had an opportunity to help. Metrowon

An adult that is not a parent following a child they don't know? Now how do you think that would look? If it was your child would you believe that they were concerned for your childs safety? Sounds creepy to me!

I do agree that kids should be looked after BUT don't your kids walk from school or are they not allowed to ride their bike in the neighbourhood??

My children are not allowed out of sight and will not be until they are old enough to stay home alone...yesterday my bf dd age 10 was at her friends house when the mom decided she would go to the store...she was going to send the girls to the playground by themselves because they are not old enough to be left home alone:confused: Tell me that makes sense...send them away by themselves with strangers all around.

[mjkacmom]

I do agree that kids should be looked after BUT don't your kids walk from school or are they not allowed to ride their bike in the neighbourhood??
I know that my kids walk to school (6, 9, 11), and my 11 year old rides her bike to visit friends, and they ride around the neighborhood. I don't think things today are more dangerous - actually, since children are taught about the dangers, they are more aware today than when I was a kid. The majority of cases of child abuse/molestation occur with family members or friends of the families, not strangers. I want my children to gradually become independent, and able to function in this world without my constant supervision. I give a little bit more freedom as they get older (my 11 year old can be home alone for 1 - 2 hours, provided I'm close by), because I don't want to let them out into the world totally unused to being independent.

[Kim&Chris]

From the time your payment is due, is 75 day's in advance. Maybe some of Disney's higher cost have to do with passenger screening, on everyone. And as you stated, it wold take no time to take a child's hand to insure their safety. And as I stated earlier, you could have insured that child's safety, by taking 2 minute's out of your cruise time, if you were so concerned, to have shadowed that child. Metrowon

It would not be appropriate for anyone but the child's family to follow a child anywhere.

[metrowon]

It would not be appropriate for anyone but the child's family to follow a child anywhere. Sorry, but I actually look out for children riding their bikes, roller skating, playing ball, etc..., in my developement. Should we always do the speed limit when their are inherant dangers, like children playing unsupervised? The original question had to do with stupid parenting. And being a Gaurdian Angel type of person, that I am, if I witness stupid parenting, I don't make a scene. I have actually caught two children falling out of grocery carts, and saved them from injury. The children were standing up in the baskets, when the intsructions were clear. And by the way, some creepy parent, thirty one years ago, that was observing me, saved me from drowning. So while you might be distracted for thirty seconds, in a pool, or sending a child to the soda fountain, out of your sight, maybe a Good Samaritan is looking out. Stupid parents, are on the news everynight, while Gaudian Angels, and Good Samaritans, are only occasionallly. Metrowon

[metrowon]

An adult that is not a parent following a child they don't know? Now how do you think that would look? If it was your child would you believe that they were concerned for your childs safety? Sounds creepy to me!



My children are not allowed out of sight and will not be until they are old enough to stay home alone...yesterday my bf dd age 10 was at her friends house when the mom decided she would go to the store...she was going to send the girls to the playground by themselves because they are not old enough to be left home alone:confused: Tell me that makes sense...send them away by themselves with strangers all around. While butterfly, thinks everything is Creepy, some concearned person actually saved me from drowning thirty-one years ago. My parent's thanked them, and creepy never came up! Metrowon

[metrowon]

It would not be appropriate for anyone but the child's family to follow a child anywhere. Ok, but I won't let your child drown, while your distracted at the Family pool! Metrowon

[metrowon]

We have to let parents parent as they see fit, I know I had MUCH more freedom than I give my kids. I, personally, would keep a tighter leash on them, especially that young. I think RCCL lets kids out of kids club in small 2-3 person groups starting at age 9 so I think there is a safety in numbers attitude but I'm too overprotective for that.

http://www.wftv.com/news/10672770/detail.html That is especially True! And if you have never seen stupid parenting, I'll need a response. Metrowon

[Kim&Chris]

Ok, but I won't let your child drown, while your distracted at the Family pool! Metrowon

I understand what you're saying, but to follow a child that is not yours from the theater on deck 5 to the soda area on deck 9 is not the thing you should do. While your intentions are good, you could also cause problems for yourself being a 'stranger' following a kid around.

Saving a kid from falling out of a cart is a wonderful thing, but a total stranger following a kid around a cruise ship is inappropriate, even if your intentions are good.

[Host Mick]

On a recent cruise on the Disney Wonder my DH and I observed a mother advising her young (7-8 yrs old) to go from the Walt Disney Theater up to the top deck by himself to get a free soda before the show. I know that, because it's a Disney cruise, that parents sometimes relax and don't worry about anything bad happening, but it was night time and we were watching a late showing of a new movie. Fortunately, he soon came back safe and sound, but I shudder to think of the things that could have happened.

It's hard to say whether or not the parent was irresponsible. Kids vary greatly in their maturity and sophistication. I don't know anything about that kid but I'm sure that his mother knows everything about him.

[metrowon]

I understand what you're saying, but to follow a child that is not yours from the theater on deck 5 to the soda area on deck 9 is not the thing you should do. While your intentions are good, you could also cause problems for yourself being a 'stranger' following a kid around.

Saving a kid from falling out of a cart is a wonderful thing, but a total stranger following a kid around a cruise ship is inappropriate, even if your intentions are good. Since you keep implying, my possible actions, may be innapropriate, I guess you'd never help a lost child on a crowded beach. The Kidnapping charges may be to hard for you to deal with. So you just let the poor lost child go wandering. And since you really have no clue as to what I do, I'm in transportation. And I've personally been responsible for over 40 million persons being delivered to their destination safely. I've had more training, than you can imagine. So you can keep on with your innapropriate stuff, trying to imply something sick, or perverted. Just keep up with trashing someone you no nothing about. And if The Host Mick want's to speak to me, he can!
Metrowon

[rrfsteve]

This issue is a great annoyance to me. I have worked with kids of all ages for my entire life & I honestly feel that over-parenting is screwing up this generation.

I remember when I was child (about 10), during the summer holidays I was out the house at about 8am, and wouldn’t return until about 8 (unless I was hungry!). Now, that was fine because we actually knew the people where I lived and we trusted them.

Nowadays everyone seems to be a paedophile or child abuser – according to the news. Believe it or-not, there are less crimes against children today than 25 years ago! The only problem is these stories ‘sell’ within the media, and therefore are given front page priority.

Working with kids, I notice the effects that giving kids limited freedoms is causing – poor social skills, obesity, lack of ‘general’ knowledge. I feel that somewhere such as a Disney cruise – where you know that you are in a suitable environment – is a good place to start returning these freedoms to kids. I would quite happily allow my children to go places by themselves on the ship.

Just to finish off this rant… I want to point out some now v. then comparisons.

Child climbs up a tree, falls out & breaks arm
Then: Its what kids do – A&E puts a cast on… all is well
Now: We sue the person who’s tree it is, for having a tree

Child uses a sling-shot, hits another kid & causes a bruise
Then: Kids will be kids. Give them a clip around the ear
Now: Child is arrested and put in juvenile detention

Child finds a can of beer, opens it and tries it
Then: Kid is grounded & looses all luxuries
Now: Parents arrested & kid taken into care

Child is allowed to go get soda on a cruise ship
Then: nobody thinks anything about it
Now: There is uproar!


I think we all (and I mean the world here) needs to re-evaluate the liberties our kids deserve & what we give them. By locking our kids up in the house with a PS3 because the ‘world isn’t safe’ is causing more problems, than benefits.

Can you tell this is a issue I feel strongly about?

[maktrk96]

An adult that is not a parent following a child they don't know? Now how do you think that would look? If it was your child would you believe that they were concerned for your childs safety? Sounds creepy to me!



My children are not allowed out of sight and will not be until they are old enough to stay home alone...yesterday my bf dd age 10 was at her friends house when the mom decided she would go to the store...she was going to send the girls to the playground by themselves because they are not old enough to be left home alone:confused: Tell me that makes sense...send them away by themselves with strangers all around.

Just to let you know that a child of the age 9 can stay by themselves. I found out through the school system I work in here in Maryland.

[mjkacmom]

This issue is a great annoyance to me. I have worked with kids of all ages for my entire life & I honestly feel that over-parenting is screwing up this generation.

I remember when I was child (about 10), during the summer holidays I was out the house at about 8am, and wouldn’t return until about 8 (unless I was hungry!). Now, that was fine because we actually knew the people where I lived and we trusted them.

Nowadays everyone seems to be a paedophile or child abuser – according to the news. Believe it or-not, there are less crimes against children today than 25 years ago! The only problem is these stories ‘sell’ within the media, and therefore are given front page priority.

Working with kids, I notice the effects that giving kids limited freedoms is causing – poor social skills, obesity, lack of ‘general’ knowledge. I feel that somewhere such as a Disney cruise – where you know that you are in a suitable environment – is a good place to start returning these freedoms to kids. I would quite happily allow my children to go places by themselves on the ship.

Just to finish off this rant… I want to point out some now v. then comparisons.

Child climbs up a tree, falls out & breaks arm
Then: Its what kids do – A&E puts a cast on… all is well
Now: We sue the person who’s tree it is, for having a tree

Child uses a sling-shot, hits another kid & causes a bruise
Then: Kids will be kids. Give them a clip around the ear
Now: Child is arrested and put in juvenile detention

Child finds a can of beer, opens it and tries it
Then: Kid is grounded & looses all luxuries
Now: Parents arrested & kid taken into care

Child is allowed to go get soda on a cruise ship
Then: nobody thinks anything about it
Now: There is uproar!


I think we all (and I mean the world here) needs to re-evaluate the liberties our kids deserve & what we give them. By locking our kids up in the house with a PS3 because the ‘world isn’t safe’ is causing more problems, than benefits.

Can you tell this is a issue I feel strongly about?
AMEN! (I feel very strongly about this issue also)

[kimmiepcft]

Amen to Steve's post as well. My friend's autistic son once wandered away when her back was turned. For the first time, he unbuckled his seat belt and walked away in a down pour. No one would follow him (you can't touch him, he FREAKS out) and no one would get wet long enough top tell her where he was. So I followed him, and waited til she got to where we were, hysterical and incoherent, to gather him up. All the other parents looked away. Am I a pedophile cause I followed him to keep him safe? no. Would those parents who ignored him be at fault if he had wandered into the street? partially.
there is no right or wrong answer. no good deed goes unpunished. would I have let my kids go up a deck or two to get a soda? maybe. does that make me a bad parent? no. my 10 year old could be more, or even less, mature than yours. a mature 10 year old is way different than one with ADD who may not be able to handle being alone.
This post has gone on wayyyyy longer than it needed to, lol.

[firefly333]

Our last cruise was on the RCI Rhapsody and this happened a lot. We sat in the theater with a family and the boys were tall for their age, but about 3 (she said almost 4) and 7/8. The boys came in by themselves every night and fially the last 3 nights we sat with them until their parents came and we all sat together and enjoyed the family a lot, but I thought even these boys were too young to be going around a ship on their own. I think a 3 year old...even if his brother is 7 or 8....is pretty young to not be with a adult at night on a cruise ship...but admit I dont know how far away their cabin was....he was a darling.

We also sat with two young girls who had the very best manners one day at lunch in the dining room, both were under 10.

I think both families were Canadian and both said they had been on lots of ships and their children were old enough to be allowed around by themselves.

I was surprised that such young children were out and about on their own.

[metrowon]

And I thank the last reponder about the autistic child response. While some persons can lol about this, and think it's gone to far, that's their opinion. Luckysadie started this thread and dissapeared, and so they did not respond to their original problem. Children, in the original post,were not protected. Someone thought that was bad! Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. And then another poster substituted follow for Shadow, and then said that was inapproprite behavior. They also dissapeared, from the thread. And as stated earlier Host Mick, can contact me about my credientials. Also as stated earlier, there are Security measures, all around all of us. I also believe Disney Security is invisible. Luckysadie, where are you? Metrowon

[metrowon]

This issue is a great annoyance to me. I have worked with kids of all ages for my entire life & I honestly feel that over-parenting is screwing up this generation.

I remember when I was child (about 10), during the summer holidays I was out the house at about 8am, and wouldn’t return until about 8 (unless I was hungry!). Now, that was fine because we actually knew the people where I lived and we trusted them.

Nowadays everyone seems to be a paedophile or child abuser – according to the news. Believe it or-not, there are less crimes against children today than 25 years ago! The only problem is these stories ‘sell’ within the media, and therefore are given front page priority.

Working with kids, I notice the effects that giving kids limited freedoms is causing – poor social skills, obesity, lack of ‘general’ knowledge. I feel that somewhere such as a Disney cruise – where you know that you are in a suitable environment – is a good place to start returning these freedoms to kids. I would quite happily allow my children to go places by themselves on the ship.

Just to finish off this rant… I want to point out some now v. then comparisons.

Child climbs up a tree, falls out & breaks arm
Then: Its what kids do – A&E puts a cast on… all is well
Now: We sue the person who’s tree it is, for having a tree

Child uses a sling-shot, hits another kid & causes a bruise
Then: Kids will be kids. Give them a clip around the ear
Now: Child is arrested and put in juvenile detention

Child finds a can of beer, opens it and tries it
Then: Kid is grounded & looses all luxuries
Now: Parents arrested & kid taken into care

Child is allowed to go get soda on a cruise ship
Then: nobody thinks anything about it
Now: There is uproar!


I think we all (and I mean the world here) needs to re-evaluate the liberties our kids deserve & what we give them. By locking our kids up in the house with a PS3 because the ‘world isn’t safe’ is causing more problems, than benefits.

Can you tell this is a issue I feel strongly about? The origianal poster was disturbed, by a parents liberal attitude, to let their child go off alone. The parent's knew exactly, how they brought up their child. And the child returned perfectly safe, but someone didn't like that, so they posted it. It really didn't cause an uproar, it caused some provacitive responses, many of which were directed at me, personally. My thought's on this matter, are no longer relevant, as those persons who objected to a hypothecical action, have dissapeared. Metrowon

[rrfsteve]

I also would like to point out that both DCL ships have almost every square inch of public space covered by CCTV. They also have some of the best security guys at sea.

Next time you are on the ship, try and find the cameras - its a fun game! They are very well hidden!

[Host Mick]

This issue is a great annoyance to me. I have worked with kids of all ages for my entire life & I honestly feel that over-parenting is screwing up this generation.

I remember when I was child (about 10), during the summer holidays I was out the house at about 8am, and wouldn’t return until about 8 (unless I was hungry!). Now, that was fine because we actually knew the people where I lived and we trusted them.

Nowadays everyone seems to be a paedophile or child abuser – according to the news. Believe it or-not, there are less crimes against children today than 25 years ago! The only problem is these stories ‘sell’ within the media, and therefore are given front page priority.

Working with kids, I notice the effects that giving kids limited freedoms is causing – poor social skills, obesity, lack of ‘general’ knowledge. I feel that somewhere such as a Disney cruise – where you know that you are in a suitable environment – is a good place to start returning these freedoms to kids. I would quite happily allow my children to go places by themselves on the ship.

Just to finish off this rant… I want to point out some now v. then comparisons.

....

I think we all (and I mean the world here) needs to re-evaluate the liberties our kids deserve & what we give them. By locking our kids up in the house with a PS3 because the ‘world isn’t safe’ is causing more problems, than benefits.

Can you tell this is a issue I feel strongly about?

I agree. I think that we are also breeding a generation of hyper-paranoid parents who see every stranger as a predator. I thnk that a cause of this is the 24-hour news cycle (and Greta Van Sustren) where every kid that goes missing for a few hours is a national news story. In the past, when a kid was kidnapped and murdered, it was a local shame and kept relatively quiet. Now, since the Kevin Collins disappearance, the 24-hour news stations run banners and have updates with every bit of news and non-news associated with the case.
It's not that I disagree with using every effort to find these missing kids but it given the impression that kids are being abducted much more frequently than they were in the past. The fact that a child disappearance makes news so infrequently in a nation of 300 million people shows just how rare these are.
Kids on an age-appropriate basis should be allowed to go outside of their parent's grasp on occasion and gain a little self-confidence from surviving the real world in bits and pieces.
Life, at all levels, is not without risk.

[Host Mick]

This issue is a great annoyance to me. I have worked with kids of all ages for my entire life & I honestly feel that over-parenting is screwing up this generation.

I remember when I was child (about 10), during the summer holidays I was out the house at about 8am, and wouldn’t return until about 8 (unless I was hungry!). Now, that was fine because we actually knew the people where I lived and we trusted them.

Nowadays everyone seems to be a paedophile or child abuser – according to the news. Believe it or-not, there are less crimes against children today than 25 years ago! The only problem is these stories ‘sell’ within the media, and therefore are given front page priority.

Working with kids, I notice the effects that giving kids limited freedoms is causing – poor social skills, obesity, lack of ‘general’ knowledge. I feel that somewhere such as a Disney cruise – where you know that you are in a suitable environment – is a good place to start returning these freedoms to kids. I would quite happily allow my children to go places by themselves on the ship.

Just to finish off this rant… I want to point out some now v. then comparisons.

....

I think we all (and I mean the world here) needs to re-evaluate the liberties our kids deserve & what we give them. By locking our kids up in the house with a PS3 because the ‘world isn’t safe’ is causing more problems, than benefits.

Can you tell this is a issue I feel strongly about?

I agree. I think that we are also breeding a generation of hyper-paranoid parents who see every stranger as a predator. I thnk that a cause of this is the 24-hour news cycle (and Greta Van Sustren) where every kid that goes missing for a few hours is a national news story. In the past, when a kid was kidnapped and murdered, it was a local shame and kept relatively quiet. Now, since the Kevin Collins disappearance, the 24-hour news stations run banners and have updates with every bit of news and non-news associated with the case.
It's not that I disagree with using every effort to find these missing kids but it given the impression that kids are being abducted much more frequently than they were in the past. The fact that a child disappearance makes news so infrequently in a nation of 300 million people shows just how rare these are.
Kids on an age-appropriate basis should be allowed to go outside of their parent's grasp on occasion and gain a little self-confidence from surviving the real world in bits and pieces.
Life, at all levels, is not without risk.

[stimpy1]

I also would like to point out that both DCL ships have almost every square inch of public space covered by CCTV. They also have some of the best security guys at sea.

Next time you are on the ship, try and find the cameras - its a fun game! They are very well hidden!

Watching something happen on a camera can already be too late. I do think the chances of something happening are pretty low but it is always a possibilty.

[CastawayJ]

The Disney Wonder is the safest place we have been with our kids outside of our family home. Knowing that just about everybody else on the ship is in a similar situation makes me feel very secure about the safety of my 8 year old. With that many other parents on the ship I feel like she is under watchful eyes on all public parts of the ship. I know as a parent that when I see child (even not my own) in a situation that may not be completly safe I keep an eye out in case something happens. I don't think that I am alone in that. We allow our 8 year old daughter to go from the Goofy pool to the Mickey pool and vice versa as long as she lets us know where she is going. We also let her go from our room to Oceaneer Lab and back, but we were on the same deck. When we go in November we will be on a different deck so I'm not sure if we will allow her that freedom then...

[michmike]

I agree with those that point out that most frequently the child molestors are those we thought we could trust : family members, day care providers, clergy, etc. Not to say that there are NEVER strangers involved... but I agree with those who point out that there was a time in this country when my generation (late 50s) hopped on their bikes after bfast and were gone til early afternoon. I'm not so sure that it is any less safe today, just that we hear more about it.

The best you can do is give your child proper training re strangers, inappropriate touching etc and then trust them to use some common sense and also to use some common sense as a parent in terms of the freedom you afford them. Kids vary widely in the amount of autonomy they are ready for. I wouldn't depend on any hard and fast rule re age.

But clearly kids in general would be better off if we had less structured activities for them, got them away from the computers (and NO computers in their bedrooms) and kicked them outside (or took them with us) to play and MOVE.

Wouldn't hurt along the way to encourage them to read, to read TO them, and to teach them to cook and clean and do laundry (whether male or female).

Far too many self-indulgent "all about ME", "YOUR job to keep me entertained"
kids out there. I'd be far more worried about that than about the odds of a stranger doing something to them

[ottergirl]

THANK YOU for posting this!!! I know we can't let kids ride around town from dawn to dusk like I did 20 years ago, but SHEESH- take the electronic babysitter AKA Playstation/Nintendo/XBox (name your poison here) out of their hands and send them out in the yard or to a close by park to play with their friends!!! Take them to the forest on a hike. And for God's sake- buy them a book once in a while and put forth the effort to make sure they take the time to read it!!!!

For the record, I am one of those people who keeps my eye on other people's kids who are wandering off. Just the other day I stopped a two year old boy from falling down a large flight of steps. It is just a natural response for me. I don't think I would have followed a child around a cruise ship, but I know I would have kept an eye out for him to make sure he got back ok, and if he didn't, I probably would have went off to look for him.

I agree with those that point out that most frequently the child molestors are those we thought we could trust : family members, day care providers, clergy, etc. Not to say that there are NEVER strangers involved... but I agree with those who point out that there was a time in this country when my generation (late 50s) hopped on their bikes after bfast and were gone til early afternoon. I'm not so sure that it is any less safe today, just that we hear more about it.

The best you can do is give your child proper training re strangers, inappropriate touching etc and then trust them to use some common sense and also to use some common sense as a parent in terms of the freedom you afford them. Kids vary widely in the amount of autonomy they are ready for. I wouldn't depend on any hard and fast rule re age.

But clearly kids in general would be better off if we had less structured activities for them, got them away from the computers (and NO computers in their bedrooms) and kicked them outside (or took them with us) to play and MOVE.

Wouldn't hurt along the way to encourage them to read, to read TO them, and to teach them to cook and clean and do laundry (whether male or female).

Far too many self-indulgent "all about ME", "YOUR job to keep me entertained"
kids out there. I'd be far more worried about that than about the odds of a stranger doing something to them

[crazy4themouse]

I am so happy to hear there are still some sane parents out there. I know people who keep their children under their thumb every second of the day -- and I feel bad for those kids. There is only one way to build independence, and that is to let them be independent once in a while!

I am a single mom to an 11 year old boy, and believe me, it is a fine line between teaching them awareness of themselves and their surroundings, and freaking them out. Paranoia is contagious from parent to child. I'm a big believer (thanks, Mom & Dad!) in the whole knowledge-is-power school of thought. DS and I have fire drills, twister drills, & stranger safety drills.

He has been allowed to check himself out of the kids' club onboard since he was almost-9, with the very clear understanding that there would be no second chance if he broke the rules laid out. We know the Magic like the back of our hand, and he knows that *I* know exactly how long it takes to get from, say, the Oceaneer Lab to Quartermasters. We use two-way radios and he calls me when he's leaving point A, and when he arrives at point B. One instance of "gee, I forgot to call," and it's game over.

Plus, he knows that there are a lot of other cruisers (from another message board where we have meets onboard) who knows what he looks like and will report back to me if they see him doing something that is anything less than the behavior expected of him. (No elevators by himself, no running, polite to CM's) So far, in 4 cruises, he has yet to blow it. And each cruise, I can see his self-confidence and independence growing.

Kids can and have been snatched right out of their front yards. What are we supposed to do, never let them out of their bedrooms? No, we teach them exactly what to do in different types of emergencies, and we practice that, so that it becomes second-nature -- just in case. They're going to fall out of trees, and get in scuffles with other kids, and other normal stuff. And they learn and grow and become self-sufficient, and eventually make our own jobs as parents basically obsolete. And really, that's the whole goal, isn't it?


happy to be raising a well-grounded young man,
-gina-

[CruiseGirlGage]

You're my hero for saying this! I was just like you as a kid. My first taste of real FREEDOM wasn't getting my driving license, it was getting my bicyle at about 10 years old. I went everywhere and was gone all day. Could something have happened to me? Sure. SHOULD something have happened to me? Well, undoubtedly, with all the nonsense stupid stuff I did and chances I took. But, guess what...I'm still here.

I really think it seemed safer when we were growing up because there was, what, 4 TV channels; no internet; and the fun you had was the fun you made. We went outside and around the neighborhood to play because that's where the fun was, not at home staring at the walls or watching Lawrence Welk on PBS. Remember the first kid to have Atari? GROUND BREAKING NEWS!!! It all went downhill from there.

As you can see, this is ALSO something I feel strongly about. I could go on and on about this, but will stop now...
:o

This issue is a great annoyance to me. I have worked with kids of all ages for my entire life & I honestly feel that over-parenting is screwing up this generation.

I remember when I was child (about 10), during the summer holidays I was out the house at about 8am, and wouldn’t return until about 8 (unless I was hungry!). Now, that was fine because we actually knew the people where I lived and we trusted them.

Nowadays everyone seems to be a paedophile or child abuser – according to the news. Believe it or-not, there are less crimes against children today than 25 years ago! The only problem is these stories ‘sell’ within the media, and therefore are given front page priority.

Working with kids, I notice the effects that giving kids limited freedoms is causing – poor social skills, obesity, lack of ‘general’ knowledge. I feel that somewhere such as a Disney cruise – where you know that you are in a suitable environment – is a good place to start returning these freedoms to kids. I would quite happily allow my children to go places by themselves on the ship.

Just to finish off this rant… I want to point out some now v. then comparisons.

Child climbs up a tree, falls out & breaks arm
Then: Its what kids do – A&E puts a cast on… all is well
Now: We sue the person who’s tree it is, for having a tree

Child uses a sling-shot, hits another kid & causes a bruise
Then: Kids will be kids. Give them a clip around the ear
Now: Child is arrested and put in juvenile detention

Child finds a can of beer, opens it and tries it
Then: Kid is grounded & looses all luxuries
Now: Parents arrested & kid taken into care

Child is allowed to go get soda on a cruise ship
Then: nobody thinks anything about it
Now: There is uproar!


I think we all (and I mean the world here) needs to re-evaluate the liberties our kids deserve & what we give them. By locking our kids up in the house with a PS3 because the ‘world isn’t safe’ is causing more problems, than benefits.

Can you tell this is a issue I feel strongly about?

[metrowon]

This issue is a great annoyance to me. I have worked with kids of all ages for my entire life & I honestly feel that over-parenting is screwing up this generation.

I remember when I was child (about 10), during the summer holidays I was out the house at about 8am, and wouldn’t return until about 8 (unless I was hungry!). Now, that was fine because we actually knew the people where I lived and we trusted them.

Nowadays everyone seems to be a paedophile or child abuser – according to the news. Believe it or-not, there are less crimes against children today than 25 years ago! The only problem is these stories ‘sell’ within the media, and therefore are given front page priority.

Working with kids, I notice the effects that giving kids limited freedoms is causing – poor social skills, obesity, lack of ‘general’ knowledge. I feel that somewhere such as a Disney cruise – where you know that you are in a suitable environment – is a good place to start returning these freedoms to kids. I would quite happily allow my children to go places by themselves on the ship.

Just to finish off this rant… I want to point out some now v. then comparisons.

Child climbs up a tree, falls out & breaks arm
Then: Its what kids do – A&E puts a cast on… all is well
Now: We sue the person who’s tree it is, for having a tree

Child uses a sling-shot, hits another kid & causes a bruise
Then: Kids will be kids. Give them a clip around the ear
Now: Child is arrested and put in juvenile detention

Child finds a can of beer, opens it and tries it
Then: Kid is grounded & looses all luxuries
Now: Parents arrested & kid taken into care

Child is allowed to go get soda on a cruise ship
Then: nobody thinks anything about it
Now: There is uproar!


I think we all (and I mean the world here) needs to re-evaluate the liberties our kids deserve & what we give them. By locking our kids up in the house with a PS3 because the ‘world isn’t safe’ is causing more problems, than benefits.

Can you tell this is a issue I feel strongly about? The question had to do with security, and not over-parenting. Someone felt there was under-parenting. This is a discussion board, and someone thought, about a child's safety. And shadow became, follwed, and that became perverted. And since you mentioned , locking our kids up in the house with a PS3, is that something you do? Not all, maybe not many, parent's do that. So we, or the world, needs to re-evaluate, what is happening to children? And now you know what is best for my child. I doubt it. You must have gone to St.Mary's College of Md., and studied Social Science , 25 years ago. The Question was, Security on the Wonder? Metrowon

[flagger]

The Wonder has had a few incidents of sexual assault and exposure. Twice by a crew member on passengers and one passenger on passenger. Disney ships are no more safe then any other environment. Do you let your 9-11 year old go wander your town mall alone or go from store to store without you?

All the screening in the world has not prevented at least three incidents on the Wonder. Besides you need to worry about those who have never registered and Disney does not check sex offender registries nor is it their responsibility.

The Disney ships are a target rich environment as far as a predator is concerned. Why anyone would let their child wander alone in that environment is beyond me.

[michmike]

and I'd wager those incidents were all adult on adult.. so where is the pertinence to the discussion about children?

I'm not sure what the Disney ships' capacity are but I'd venture that it's something in excess of 2000 people. When you multiply that by 52 trips a year (for Magic) and even more for Wonder, that means they are carrying in excess of 104,000 passengers a year.

Show me a town with that population that has only 3 incidents in a year. Still seems like a very safe environment to me.

[rrfsteve]

Metrowon – I agree with you that each child’s family need to take the care they believe is right in regards to their safety. The point I was attempting to make via my rant was with the perceived dangers many people have with regards to children. I am not saying children are not targeted, and I am not saying we can guarantee a child’s safety. What I was trying to say I that many people believe the dangers to be more than they are.

I have worked with kids all my life (from the age of 16!). I worked in the child entertainment business, I worked with kids onboard a cruise ship, I studied child behaviour, I do voluntary work with children and I am now a teacher. I can tell you there is a noticeable difference between those who have been given an element of freedom in their lives and those who have not.

The children who have been given an element of freedom have
- Better communication skills
- Generally receive higher grades
- Can develop lines of questioning/ educational arguments
- Reach curriculum levels before those who do not have as much freedoms
- Are fitter & less obese
- Have faster reaction times

With regards the the actual question ‘security on the wonder’, refered to the parents allowing their kids to get soda. My POV is – I think it’s great giving kids limited freedoms. I would not see this as a security breach. I think this thread has developed into what it is – it happens.


Flagger – I wish to point out that in regards to the three incidents that occurred. The last one, the gent in question was under constant security surveillance after the initial incident (check on the web). He was offloaded and detained in Nassau. He was later deported to the US. I believe there were issues raised about the age the girl told him she was. – this is unsubstantiated though.

Incident 2. Again the ‘crew’ member was under surveillance due to abnormal behaviour & was detained after the first tangible signs of unnatural behaviour.

The third incident – I couldn’t find any details off.

Disney can not check sex offender registers, but the FBI & Immigration does. If a sex offender is booked on any form of transport – they will know.


Again I apologise for my rant! I hate hearing about how ‘dangerous’ the world is… its not. Kids are more likely to get seriously injured by a hamster than be sexually abused (wiki). I understand we all want to take care of our kids – heck, that’s what I get paid to do. However, I think we need to ensure kids can be kids. We shouldn’t frighten them, we should encourage them to be creative and inquisitive. I believe that the best form of watching over you kids is to have open chats with them – let them know that they can tell you anything. Develop a bond of trust & if something is concerning them (or you) you can openly talk about them.

[flagger]

The victim was under 16 in one case. It was crew member on passenger.

I worry about all the incidents that are not reported and you know in life there are those. I think Disney gives a false sense of security. And again as there are sex offenders that do travel, I don't know where you get this information about the FBI checking who is cruising. You still are not going to catch those who have never been caught nor never registered.

You are in a foreign country when you are on any cruiseship (save NCL America). If you won't let your child wander in your mall at home where you cannot see them, why would anyone on a cruiseship.

I would rather it be an inconvenience than have a statistic.

[mjkacmom]

It is a fact that the majority of occurances of sexual abuse happen with friends, family members, and neighbors. Would you let your 11 year old go over to a friend's house? Stay with a sitter? Hang out with cousins? I let my 11 and 9 year olds walk to friends' homes (within a certain distance). Is it for convinience? Absolutely not. I strongly believe that children need to be given gradual independence, in order to become strong, healthy adults. Child predators target fearful children, just as any predator targets the weak. We all want to protect our children - it's natural - but, IMHO, in order to protect my children, I have to give them confidence. So would I let my older kids walk around a cruise ship? Yes, and I would feel much for comfortable letting them walk around in an environment where a predator is trapped, making it much less likely that any abuse would occur.

[lovablelady]

During my second Disney Cruise, my children were 8 and 12. We were traveling with three other families. Including all 4 families, there were two 12 year olds, one 9 year old, three 8 year olds, and 1 6 year old. All of the children 8 and older were allowed to sign thereselves out of the club and walk around the ship. The only rule was that people stayed together. For example, everyone could go around the ship alone as long as they had at least one other person. And yes, we did let the 8 year olds walk up to the top deck to get a soda alone. It was there second time on the ship, and they knew where they were going. They knew not to go with any stranger, even crew members. They also knew to go straight to get a soda and come back. We also let them stay in the staterooms alone. They knew not to open the door for anyone, including the crew. I guess we just trusted our children. Also, if anyone was following my child, even just to see if they were safe, i would atomatically think they were stalkers or even rapers to be truthful. That's just creepy.

[rjeash]

[quote=honeydog714;11025506We have been on many disney cruises and i have never once heard of a child being abducted into a cabin or snatched into the laundry room.[/quote]

Yes, but it only takes once and as a parent, that is not a risk I am willing to take.

[rjeash]

My biggest fear on the cruise we are taking in Sept is my middle son climbing the railing and falling overboard. :rolleyes: That is why we are getting two connecting inside rooms - for my piece of mind. I want to be able to take a shower without having to worry what the kids are doing. As for my children wandering the ship on their own, (they are DS11, DS9 and DD 6 1/2) I will give some lieniency if they are all three together but I will not have my 9 or 6 year old go alone. It really doesn't have as much do with age as it is their personalities. My 11 year old is very responsible and mature and is at the right age for some independence. My nine year old is questionable so he is out for wandering. My daughter is too young and way to much of an extravert! She doesn't know a stranger. I do agree that some parents can smother a child (I have a dear friend that didn't let her daughter play with the neighborhood children because they weren't the same faith as her). However, parents know their children and their limitations and abilities as well. As a society, if we see anyone in a dangerous situation, we are called to bring attention to it and help in any way. Whether it be a child drowning or an adult drowning - it makes no difference. I have seen a child walking in the mall or airport that was obviously too small to be on his own and I verbally asked people if they were the parent and sometimes the parent is nearby but not close and sometimes the child is "lost". The parent's ALWAYS appreciate the effort even if they are nearby. Actually, I had it happen to me last week. I got ahead of my daughter at a concert and I turned around to tell her to come on and a woman was asking where her parents were. I thanked the woman and all was well.

[bunting]

Yes, but it only takes once and as a parent, that is not a risk I am willing to take.

I just saw this on the Carnival thread

http://www.hfxnews.ca/index.cfm?sid=54514&sc=89

[Host Mick]

I just saw this on the Carnival thread

http://www.hfxnews.ca/index.cfm?sid=54514&sc=89

If you'll read the article, you'll see that he was wanted in Texas for a probation violation. He just happened to be on the cruise ship taking the cruise. The cruise has nothing to do with his being wanted and there was no indication that he "reoffended" on the ship.

[metrowon]

The victim was under 16 in one case. It was crew member on passenger.

I worry about all the incidents that are not reported and you know in life there are those. I think Disney gives a false sense of security. And again as there are sex offenders that do travel, I don't know where you get this information about the FBI checking who is cruising. You still are not going to catch those who have never been caught nor never registered.

You are in a foreign country when you are on any cruiseship (save NCL America). If you won't let your child wander in your mall at home where you cannot see them, why would anyone on a cruiseship.

I would rather it be an inconvenience than have a statistic. Why do you think Disney offer's false security? Where are your assumptions derived from? And how do yo know what Disney screens? Maybe some of their EXSPENSIVE FEE"S, go toward's passenger screening's? Metrowon

[metrowon]

Metrowon – I agree with you that each child’s family need to take the care they believe is right in regards to their safety. The point I was attempting to make via my rant was with the perceived dangers many people have with regards to children. I am not saying children are not targeted, and I am not saying we can guarantee a child’s safety. What I was trying to say I that many people believe the dangers to be more than they are.

I have worked with kids all my life (from the age of 16!). I worked in the child entertainment business, I worked with kids onboard a cruise ship, I studied child behaviour, I do voluntary work with children and I am now a teacher. I can tell you there is a noticeable difference between those who have been given an element of freedom in their lives and those who have not.

The children who have been given an element of freedom have
- Better communication skills
- Generally receive higher grades
- Can develop lines of questioning/ educational arguments
- Reach curriculum levels before those who do not have as much freedoms
- Are fitter & less obese
- Have faster reaction times

With regards the the actual question ‘security on the wonder’, refered to the parents allowing their kids to get soda. My POV is – I think it’s great giving kids limited freedoms. I would not see this as a security breach. I think this thread has developed into what it is – it happens.


Flagger – I wish to point out that in regards to the three incidents that occurred. The last one, the gent in question was under constant security surveillance after the initial incident (check on the web). He was offloaded and detained in Nassau. He was later deported to the US. I believe there were issues raised about the age the girl told him she was. – this is unsubstantiated though.

Incident 2. Again the ‘crew’ member was under surveillance due to abnormal behaviour & was detained after the first tangible signs of unnatural behaviour.

The third incident – I couldn’t find any details off.

Disney can not check sex offender registers, but the FBI & Immigration does. If a sex offender is booked on any form of transport – they will know.


Again I apologise for my rant! I hate hearing about how ‘dangerous’ the world is… its not. Kids are more likely to get seriously injured by a hamster than be sexually abused (wiki). I understand we all want to take care of our kids – heck, that’s what I get paid to do. However, I think we need to ensure kids can be kids. We shouldn’t frighten them, we should encourage them to be creative and inquisitive. I believe that the best form of watching over you kids is to have open chats with them – let them know that they can tell you anything. Develop a bond of trust & if something is concerning them (or you) you can openly talk about them. My initial response to this thread had to do with irresponsible parenting. Someone didn't like my response. Then they made it perverted! We can all rant and rave about children's safety. And we can all do something about it, without be looked at as a pervert. Someone actually did save my life, from drowning some 35 years ago. They were watching, and not perverted! Metrowon

[palofmine]

Maybe the parents know their kids, and know how they act, and maybe they are smart arents and have told their kids NOT to talk to strangers??? HM a smart parent, can that not happen?

[RachieLnnn]

When I saw "safety issue" in the title of this thread, I thought it would be something like a loose handrail, or a slippery deck, or similar! (A safety issue with the ship.) :rolleyes:

I agree with the posters that said that the amount of freedom given should depend upon the child. I do agree that it is good for children to be given freedoms and independance as they grow older.

Do I have children myself yet, no. But I do have many small children in my extended family.

If I were on this ship, I probably wouldn't have thought twice about what the OP saw... I would most likely assume that the parents know what their children can handle.

BTW, I played outside all day everyday in the summer, too, and I grew up in the 80's. :D My fiancé is the same.

[kaykels]

Personally I am SHOCKED at how nuts some of you sound. I know that's harsh.
This is a floating city of thousands of people aboard that you don't know. Turning a 7 or 8 year old loose to roam from the front of the ship to the back and up a few flights of stairs for a soda and then back to the theater unattended is careless. I don't care if there was never a single incident on Disney ever. It takes one nutbag to pull your kid into their cabin and do whatever. It takes one drunk to knock a kid overboard. It takes one bully to hurt a child. You're talking about a 1st or 2nd grader!!!!

And I ALSO work with chidren, own an entertainment company and love working with kids more than anything. Giving them freedom and privedges is all well and good, but would you let your first or second grader roam the streets at night unattended? In a strange city, strange neighborhood? Why is the cruise ship any different?
Disney doesn't do background checks on the other passengers. Pedefiles, alcoholics, murderers and bullies cruise too.
It's not the child's maturity you have to concern yourself with folks! It's commen sense and safety.

I took a cruise with my sister a few months ago and we were careful not to set our drinks down or walk the halls alone. I'm not paranoid, I'm a city girl, and not afraid. Just using the buddy system for precautions. Why risk your child's safety ?

[kaykels]

Child predators target fearful children, just as any predator targets the weak.

No, sexual preditors target the easy targets. You know, those roaming around with no parents in site. The fearful child is safe, holding mom's hand while she's getting a soda.

[yndygo]

Personally I am SHOCKED at how nuts some of you sound. I know that's harsh.


Actually, it just sounds judgmental.

The thing about parenting? The only time you are a "perfect" parent is before you have kids - or after they are grown and gone and not around to contradict your stories of how wonderful you were...

We each have to make our own parenting decisions - and we don't get to decide for others what they do and don't risk... and how they handle the challenges of raising kids.

The original title of this thread is misleading - there's no "Safety Risk" on board the Wonder... there's a parent judging another parent's behavior and deciding it's not okay, and then warning the rest of us not to behave that way.

Personally? I'd never let my daughter roam around a cruise ship alone. But it's not my call to make a decision for someone else's family. Nor is it yours. Nor anyone else's.

[yndygo]

I'm shocked at how nuts grown women can be to be afraid to walk the halls alone on a cruise. Do you need a buddy for the mall? Grocery shopping? What city are you from? How do you function in society? I've walked in NYC without a buddy, Chicago without a buddy, Philadelphia without a buddy, and yes, even a cruise ship, by myself. Although my 6 year old will not roaming the ship, my 9 and 11 year olds will have my permission to go places without adults. They walk to school without me, they walk to friends' homes without me. How many children do you have, to judge other parents?

Okay, now that's getting a bit heated... Before we all start getting flamey about this, let's just walk away and let this thread bury itself?? I notice the OP who started this drama-fest has never returned once she lit the match and dropped it into the gasoline...

Honestly guys. Let's quit being so angry at each other for making different choices and go back to having fun... This is a good board, and clearly, this is not an easy topic :confused:

Please?? :o:o