WHAT??? No Casual Nights in the Dining Room?

[essjay]

We just received our cruise documents from our travel agency today, and while reading throgh them, I saw something extremely interesting. We will be on a 7-night Eastern Caribbean cruise, and supposedly, there are "two formal nights and five smart casual nights". Wow! I've never been on a cruise that didn't have three or four casual nights during a 7-night cruise. Is this just a misprint, or has HAL gone less casual?:eek:

[pms4104]

HAL recently introduced the Smart Casual designation ... their website and, likely, your docs suggest what is appropriate. Trousers (like Dockers) and shirts or sweaters for men and dresses or skirts or trousers with blouses, sweaters or tops for the ladies. I believe the guidelines also indicate what is not acceptable, such as swimsuits, shorts, etc.

Prior to this change, HAL had formal, informal and casual nights ... now they call the non-formal nights Smart Casual.

[Jemima]

Smart casual is the same HAL casual. The word smart may have been added to help clarify the meaning of casual. (Casual to me meant nice jeans, very casual slacks, shorts, tees, casual tops. Fortunately I read and asked questions on dress code before we cruised. We learned cruise casual is a dressier casual and dressed appropriately. Unfortunately some people just see the word casual and dress as they wish.)

[eh2zed]

As others have indicated Smart Casual is the same as Casual in the dress code of the past. It simply distinguishes between what some cruise lines consider Casual (jeans, etc.) and the HAL Casual which is a bit dressier casual.

[Vic The Parrot]

Smart casual = elegant casual = country club casual


Just in case there are any more questions .... ;) :cool:

[TaliaSicilia]

I have searched multiple boards, but haven't found the answer to this question....as we are leaving in 36 days for our very first cruise (15 days to Hawaii) I would appreciate any help you can provide.

If you choose to enjoy dinner on the Lido deck what is the dress code? Is it still the "country club" or "smart" casual? Or is it more informal?

[bepsf]

Smart casual = elegant casual = country club casual


As compared to what - Stupid Casual?
(T-shirts/Shorts/Flip-Flops)
;)

[Vic The Parrot]

As compared to what - Stupid Casual?
(T-shirts/Shorts/Flip-Flops)
;)



And ....


What's wrong with that ?? :NYAH:

[bepsf]

And ....


What's wrong with that ?? :NYAH:

Absolutely nothing...
...on the beach.
;)

[Vic The Parrot]

Absolutely nothing...
...on the beach.
;)



Oh come on ... you could do better than that :D

[WillieF]

I have searched multiple boards, but haven't found the answer to this question....as we are leaving in 36 days for our very first cruise (15 days to Hawaii) I would appreciate any help you can provide.

If you choose to enjoy dinner on the Lido deck what is the dress code? Is it still the "country club" or "smart" casual? Or is it more informal?

Depends on your definitions of '"country club" or "smart" casual' :D

There's what I call 'hope I don't meet anyone I know' casual - tatty pants,no make up etc. when I didn't expect to have to go anywhere!:rolleyes: but have to dash out for unexpected company arriving within the hour.....I'd call that 'more informal'!

For me at least it never fails! Someone you haven't seen in years appears! I'd definitely wish I was at least wearing a decent pair of pants, taken time to brush my hair, maybe even put on some lipstick! Is that 'more informal'?:confused:

[Krazy Kruizers]

Although we have yet to eat dinner in the Lido, we have passed through while dinner was going on.

There didn't seem to be any dress code enforced there - have seen people in shorts there as well.

[kryos]

We just received our cruise documents from our travel agency today, and while reading throgh them, I saw something extremely interesting. We will be on a 7-night Eastern Caribbean cruise, and supposedly, there are "two formal nights and five smart casual nights". Wow! I've never been on a cruise that didn't have three or four casual nights during a 7-night cruise. Is this just a misprint, or has HAL gone less casual?:eek:
"Smart" casual is casual.

Formal should also be called "dumb formal." :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Although we have yet to eat dinner in the Lido, we have passed through while dinner was going on.

There didn't seem to be any dress code enforced there - have seen people in shorts there as well.
And there really shouldn't be ... other than, of course, men having a shirt on, no bathing suits without a cover-up, etc.

The Lido is the very casual venue ... it's where people go specifically because they don't want to bother getting "gussied up" for the dining room. So, of course, all manner of dress will be seen in there. That's totally appropriate.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[CroozeAddict]

Hi all,

I pulled this from another thread just in case anyone had a question about dress code in the main dining room. Formal nights are still formal but I guess you can wear jeans every other night. (We'll probably still wear smart casual though.)


Norwegian Cruise Line got a lot of attention when they announced that their policy now officially allows jeans to be worn for dinner in the dining room. We thought they were the only ones officially allowing it - until we checked as part of CND article we were writing for today's issue. Frankly, we were surprised at the lines that say jeans are ok. Here's a list for quick reference:

Updated Aug 10, 2007:


Azamara - no jeans
Carnival - jeans are ok but not encouraged
Celebrity - no jeans
Costa - jeans are ok except on formal nights
Crystal - jeans ok on casual nights, not formal or informal nights
Cunard - no jeans
Disney - jeans ok except on formal and certain theme nights and never ok in Palo's
Holland America - jeans are ok except on formal nights
MSC Cruises - no jeans
Norwegian Cruise Line - jeans are ok
Princess - jeans are ok except on formal nights
Royal Caribbean - jeans are ok except on formal nights
Seabourn - jeans are ok except on formal nights
Silversea - jeans are ok except on formal nightsAll of the lines require the jeans to be neat, clean and presentable, and they cannot have holes or tears. Many lines also had some wording in their policies about being neat and clean. Remember too, that this survey was about dinner in the main dining room. All lines indicated jeans were ok during the daytime.

The information was verified by each line's official spokesperson, but is subject to change.

[essjay]

Thanks, all!!!!!!!!!!:D

[AirGorilla]

Although we have yet to eat dinner in the Lido, we have passed through while dinner was going on.

There didn't seem to be any dress code enforced there - have seen people in shorts there as well.

The Horror!!

[bicker]

"Smart" casual is casual. Formal should also be called "dumb formal." :)Hehe... but seriously, I do object to how many people actually interpret it that way to some extent (despite, perhaps, their claims to the contrary). What I mean by that is that I find, at least for men, most (though not all) of the "formal" clothing worn on formal night is "dumb": repetitive, uniform, without character. I find it often says nothing about who the person is -- that it is almost like a costume or a whole-body mask, obscuring the uniqueness of the individual. I find that almost as disheartening than a baseball cap in the dining room.

What I'd really enjoy is if there was a rule enforced that barred entry to the dining room to anyone who is not wearing at least one significant piece of clothing (shirt, pants, jacket, vest [optional], and for the wimps, I'll include the tie, but that's it), that is wholly unique from that worn by anyone else already in the dining room. :) :) :)

[Lynne Myrna]

bicker......I really find you quite funny:):):)

[bicker]

I aim to please. ;)

[btobey]

So has anyone actually been on a HAL cruise since the switch to "smart casual?" DH and I are going on a 12-day Panama Canal cruise next April--so there will probably be what, 3 formal nights? On the "smart casual" days, I was thinking that I would wear things like skirts/pants with dressy tanks/sweaters, but should I expect that there will be a lot of people wearing jeans? DH might be relieved, but I actually like to dress up a little!

[WeLoveCruising]

So has anyone actually been on a HAL cruise since the switch to "smart casual?" DH and I are going on a 12-day Panama Canal cruise next April--so there will probably be what, 3 formal nights? On the "smart casual" days, I was thinking that I would wear things like skirts/pants with dressy tanks/sweaters, but should I expect that there will be a lot of people wearing jeans? DH might be relieved, but I actually like to dress up a little!

I think you'll be just right. You're describing what I wear on casual or "smart casual" nights (they are the same thing). Most women will be dressed exactly as you're describing - I usually wear nice pants or a skirt with a nice tank top or sweater, sometimes a sundress (as opposed to a "dressy" dress). There are always a few in jeans, which if fine by me. I dont wear them because I dont find them as comfortable as some of my other clothes in the hot weather. You'll probably find less jeans/T-shirts on your 12 day Panama Canal than you would on a 7-day Caribbean. What you're planning to bring sounds exactly right to me :)

[btobey]

You'll probably find less jeans/T-shirts on your 12 day Panama Canal than you would on a 7-day Caribbean.
I was thinking the same thing...plus, shirts/tops are easier to pack AND to mix and match!

[jocelysue]

Smart casual = elegant casual = country club casual


Just in case there are any more questions .... ;) :cool:

And what does "country club casual" mean pray tell? Or am I one of the rare few who isn't even sure what a country club is ?

Jocelysue from a "nation" where English is not the main language, and who wonders whether a country has only one club or not.

[RuthC]

And what does "country club casual" mean pray tell?
How about a "put together" outfit? Does that make more sense to you? Co-ordinates? Mix and match?
Think of an outfit that's a bit dressier than daytime casual that you'd wear to the grocery store.

Does that help? (I wish I could say it in French for you, mais non ;) .)

[Palm Beacher]

I have to voice my opinion on this subject and remember this is my opinion only. Anyone can dress as they like. Whatever you decide to wear during your vacation will not ruin my vacation...(unless it's smelly and you happen to be sitting next to me)

I just received my documents and I quote,

"The right clothing can make a big difference in the enjoyment of your cruise. First and foremost, dress for comfort. Daily life aboard ship and in ports of call is relaxed and casual. Warmer climates call for clothing made of lightweight, breathable fabrics. For cooler climates, we suggest casual clothes that can be layered easily and possibly a raincoat and waterproof hat or umbrella and gloves. Certain shore excursions may require particular attention to clothing. For example, certain churches, or other places of worship, may not allow tank tops or short pants. Bring a swimsuit as all of our ships have pools and whirlpools. You may wish to bring more than one outfit for the water. We ask that you wear shoes and a cover-up over a bathing suit when walking through the interior of the ship. If you would like to jog on the sports deck or work out in the fitness center, bring workout gear. Footwear should include comfortable walking shoes for visits ashore and sandals or rubber-soled shoes for strolling on deck.

Each night a daily program will be delivered to your stateroom announcing the suggested dress for the following evening.

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories; Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and sports shirt or sweater for men and skirt or trousers and sweater or blouse for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen usually wear a suit and tie or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

Formalwear for ladies and gentlemen can be pre-ordered for your use during your cruise by calling Cruiseline Formalwear at 800-551-5091. Your formalwear will be in your stateroom when you board. "

Although it does not specifically state that jeans are not allowed, come on people, jeans should not be worn in the Main Dining Room or the Pinnacle Grill. If you go out to dinner in a fancy restaurant in your hometown, don't you dress up a little? Granted you're on vacation, but isn't this vacation special for you? Are dress slacks and a shirt too much? A pair capris and top too much? I just don't understand why people wear jeans while they are on vacation...maybe they are planning to go hiking or do yard work right after dinner.

[caviargal]

I have cruised HAL twice since the change in dress code. Very few jeans and most passengers were smartly dressed. Dresses, slacks and tops with heels for me, DH wear dress slacks and button down shirts.

In the PG, people were in cocktail attire most nights.

[Grammakel]

We just returned from a 7-day Alaska Cruise on the Amsterdam last week. Our very first cruise!

On our two formal nights, I think we only saw ten tuxedos in the Dining Room...most men were in a dress shirt and slacks, and ladies in dressy slacks and tops. I wore dresses, and felt a little out of place!

We had two, I think, nights that said "Smart casual" and three that were specified as "casual". Seemed to be polo or collared shirts & khakis for men on both occasions, and slacks and tops for the ladies. I did see a few jeans in the dining room in evening, I thought this was a no-no?

On the last night, which was "casual", I saw a lady in sweat pants in the dining room...come on, dress up a LITTLE!

In the Lido for lunch, most were t-shirts and shorts, casual slacks or jeans for both sexes. Did not see any bathing suits...

I agree with whomever said that this is a special vacation, dress the part.
In my opinion, it was fun to 'dress' for dinner after being on tours or lounging around all day.

Just my opinion.:)

[mumsyo]

Very often, on the last night of the cruise, people will wear the clothing that they are going to wear on the plane going home as they have packed the other clothes. I think that this is permissible along as it isn't your "grubbies".

Marilyn

[peaches from georgia]

Is anyone wearing only long dresses or long skirts anymore on formal nights or is everyone wearing some kind of dressy slacks on some of the formal nights? I mostly wear dressy slacks with a variety of tops- beaded, dressy sweaters, etc. and of course more elaborate jewelry.

This is not to start a formal night arguement, believe me. I just had noticed that there are many many slack/dressy tops outfits and I wondered if any of the ladies are sticking to the long dress/skirt exclusively.

[sail7seas]

So has anyone actually been on a HAL cruise since the switch to "smart casual?" DH and I are going on a 12-day Panama Canal cruise next April--so there will probably be what, 3 formal nights? On the "smart casual" days, I was thinking that I would wear things like skirts/pants with dressy tanks/sweaters, but should I expect that there will be a lot of people wearing jeans? DH might be relieved, but I actually like to dress up a little!


We have been on five HAL cruises since HAL started permitting jeans in the dining room and we have seen VERY, VERY FEW. Yes......there were a few people on each cruise wearing jeans but they were a tiny number out of all the guests.

They are permitted and they were let into the dining room and no one said anything to them of which I am aware.

The vast majority of lfemale guests wore nice skirts/pants with dressy tanks/sweaters/tops as you describe. Most of the gentlemen were in dress trousers, nice belt with a nice shirt/polo jersey. Some men wore dockers and that is fine.

[sail7seas]

Is anyone wearing only long dresses or long skirts anymore on formal nights or is everyone wearing some kind of dressy slacks on some of the formal nights? I mostly wear dressy slacks with a variety of tops- beaded, dressy sweaters, etc. and of course more elaborate jewelry.

This is not to start a formal night arguement, believe me. I just had noticed that there are many many slack/dressy tops outfits and I wondered if any of the ladies are sticking to the long dress/skirt exclusively.


Yes......many women are still wearing long dresses and long skirts. I do. I also sometimes wear dressy crepe pants/palazzo with very dressy tops as you mention. And definitely add some baubles. :)

[silvercruiser]

The comic strip CATHY used to discuss the difference between "dressy casual" and "casual dressy" It was so funny, ans of course, Cathy always chose the wrong option. I found that there was quite an overlap between my informal and my casual. So I'm all set for country club casual. I doesn't take any longer to dress up in something nice.

[Culater]

It was our first cruise and it was on HAL. The website says "smart" casual for men is slacks and shirt. I interpret that as "no jeans' but it doesn't specifically say "no jeans". So we saw men in Jeans. My wife wore dresses and skirts for the smart casual nights and she said she felt overdressed. It seems to me as long as you don't wear shorts and slippers you're OK. Is anyone going to kick you out??? I also saw guys in t-shirts,so much for HAL's rules. Nikes, sneakers, tennis shoes, those all seemed to be OK too on casual nights. On formal nights there were guys in tuxes, but the majority wore coat and tie or suits. There weren't many women wearing formal dresses, or outfits you might see at the black and white ball. Most were in dresses or skirts that weren't real formal to me or suits. When it comes down to it, if you like to dress up, just do it. If you don't like to get too dressed up, that seems to be OK too. Has anyone ever really seen someone get sent back to their room to change???

[Kathyh1313]

Has anyone ever really seen someone get sent back to their room to change???

YES, both on the Volendam and Amsterdam, I saw guests being turned away and asked to change out of shorts for dinner in the man dining room. The maitre 'd tapped the "gentleman" on the shoulder and requested that he change into "long pants." As the man in question was wearing the kind of loose, baggy "shorts" that end below the knee, he replied he was wearing long pants. The maitre 'd replied, not long enough! You must change your attire or dine in the lido.

Hurrah!

[Palm Beacher]

Hurrah! Finally someone let it be known that too casual is not acceptable in the dining room.

[btobey]

Personally, I kind of wish that HAL would further their definition of "smart casual" to say that jeans and sneakers are NOT allowed. Is it so hard to put on a pair of Dockers and a collared polo shirt? IMO, those kinds of clothes are just as comfortable as jeans and actually travel better!

I was also kind of disappointed to see Grammakel state that not too many women were wearing dresses on FORMAL nights. I might wear a dressy pants/jeweled top outfit for one of the formal nights, but on the other nights, I'm pulling out my dresses, the ones I never get to wear anyplace else! Part of the reason I liek going on a cruise is to wear some of the clothes I can't wear elsewhere (like long gowns!). I guess maybe HAL wasn't the best choice for us attire-wise.

[FLACRUISER99]

How about No Baseball Cap on backwards.???:eek: :eek:

[peaches from georgia]

How about no baseball caps in the Dining Room at all, backwards, forwards, or sideways.

[Happy HALer]

When in doubt, Wikipedia......


Smart casual (as distinct from Business casual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_casual)) is a loosely defined dress code, casual, yet "smart" enough to conform to the particular standards of certain Western (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world) social groups.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_casual#_note-0)
As "smart casual" is not formally defined, the lines between it and the other casual styles (see Dress code (Western) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_code_%28Western%29)) are often blurred. For example, some may use the term Smart casual to refer to Business casual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_casual). See the link below, "Cracking the Dress Code", for details.
It has been suggested that smart casual consists of a suit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit_%28clothing%29) or sports jacket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_jacket) and/or a sweater, with an optional tie. [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_casual#_note-1)
Empowerment Enterprises suggests that mens smart casual includes "wearing dress trousers (or even crisp jeans), a long-sleeve shirt, maybe a tie, leather loafers or dressy slip-on's, patterned socks or solid-colored dress socks, a tipped belt, and you may or may not wear a sport coat." They say also that the sports coat is required with jeans. They state that female smart casual includes "slacks, crisp jeans, or a skirt (long or short), a blouse or turtleneck, a fashionable belt, a jacket, a vest, or a sweater coordinated to your outfit, hosiery or socks with boots, flats (leather, suede, or fabric) or mid-heel shoes."[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_casual#_note-2)

[glrounds]

How about No Baseball Cap on backwards.???:eek: :eek:
The problem then becomes the ambiguity of the word "backwards". :D My son, 10 years ago, would have considered baseball players as wearing their baseball caps "backwards". :eek:

[madelinerose]

And what does "country club casual" mean pray tell?

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Think silk/cotton twin set with linen, cotton or jersey slacks.

[bicker]

Personally, I kind of wish that HAL would further their definition of "smart casual" to say that jeans and sneakers are NOT allowed. Is it so hard to put on a pair of Dockers and a collared polo shirt? IMO, those kinds of clothes are just as comfortable as jeans and actually travel better!I would be surprised to find anyone who truthfully could say that they cannot find a pair of Dockers that are as comfortable as denim jeans. Denim wears well, but until it is very substantially worn (and shows visible signs of same) isn't as comfortable as Docker IMHO.

I think the penchant for jeans, therefore, comes from matters of style, concerns about durability, and/or simply a matter of jeans serving dual-purpose (hiking and dining, perhaps, in the minds of those who make that selection). However, more likely, those of us who wouldn't wear jeans to dinner simply don't understand why those who do, do and would. Hopefully, a jeans-at-dinner fan can answer the query you posed: Why jeans instead of Dockers?

[spacecat]

I have to voice my opinion on this subject and remember this is my opinion only. Anyone can dress as they like. Whatever you decide to wear during your vacation will not ruin my vacation...(unless it's smelly and you happen to be sitting next to me)

I just received my documents and I quote,

"The right clothing can make a big difference in the enjoyment of your cruise. First and foremost, dress for comfort. Daily life aboard ship and in ports of call is relaxed and casual. Warmer climates call for clothing made of lightweight, breathable fabrics. For cooler climates, we suggest casual clothes that can be layered easily and possibly a raincoat and waterproof hat or umbrella and gloves. Certain shore excursions may require particular attention to clothing. For example, certain churches, or other places of worship, may not allow tank tops or short pants. Bring a swimsuit as all of our ships have pools and whirlpools. You may wish to bring more than one outfit for the water. We ask that you wear shoes and a cover-up over a bathing suit when walking through the interior of the ship. If you would like to jog on the sports deck or work out in the fitness center, bring workout gear. Footwear should include comfortable walking shoes for visits ashore and sandals or rubber-soled shoes for strolling on deck.

Each night a daily program will be delivered to your stateroom announcing the suggested dress for the following evening.

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories; Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and sports shirt or sweater for men and skirt or trousers and sweater or blouse for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen usually wear a suit and tie or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

Formalwear for ladies and gentlemen can be pre-ordered for your use during your cruise by calling Cruiseline Formalwear at 800-551-5091. Your formalwear will be in your stateroom when you board. "

Although it does not specifically state that jeans are not allowed, come on people, jeans should not be worn in the Main Dining Room or the Pinnacle Grill. If you go out to dinner in a fancy restaurant in your hometown, don't you dress up a little? Granted you're on vacation, but isn't this vacation special for you? Are dress slacks and a shirt too much? A pair capris and top too much? I just don't understand why people wear jeans while they are on vacation...maybe they are planning to go hiking or do yard work right after dinner.

All I wear on vacation is jeans....because that is who I am. I certainly don't go around wondering why people dress up on vacation - I figure thats who they are. I had no hiking to do or yard work to tend to while on the Noordam in June and got along just fine in my jeans the whole cruise. As did my husband.:D

[sail7seas]

All I wear on vacation is jeans....because that is who I am. I certainly don't go around wondering why people dress up on vacation - I figure thats who they are. I had no hiking to do or yard work to tend to while on the Noordam in June and got along just fine in my jeans the whole cruise. As did my husband.:D

I don't care what you wore.....jeans, nice linen pants, beautiful silk ensemble.

What I am interested in is .... Were you aware HAL has a dress code when you booked your cruise? Did you read the Know Before you Go booklet HAL sends with our documents and read about the dress code in that booklet? Did you consider what that code is and what were your thoughts about the fact you booked at cruise ship which had a dress code? Did you ever consider whether you would abide by their stated dress code?

My reason for asking is to wonder how HAL may be failing in letting cruisers know about their code. Do people know about it and ignore it or were they genuinely and sincerely in the dark about it?

[Golfette]

MadelineRose - were the 1st two pictures supposed to be Country Club Casual? Been to quite a few "CC's" and that (1st 2 pictures) is certainly not what was being worn for dinner on a "regular" night. Nothing even close.

While I don't consider HAL's suggested "Code" to be the be-all and end-all of what I wear, I certainly will consider it and abide by it to my idea of what is appropriate. I think common sense is the key word here. Most people have enough common sense to dress appropriately. Maybe not as dressy as some would like, but nicely.

While I don't think jeans are appropriate for formal night, I realize that in California at least, in some "high-rent" districts they are considered the height of fashion. Of course in those cases, the jeans and top have cost as much as any designer gown and can be very attractive indeed. So, again, if someone shows up in jeans - what kind of jeans are they?

In any event, against my better judgment and every instinct I have, I have bought a long gown for this cruise. I have absolutely no other use for it ... except to tell you the truth I love it!:)

[madelinerose]

MadelineRose - were the 1st two pictures supposed to be Country Club Casual? Been to quite a few "CC's" and that (1st 2 pictures) is certainly not what was being worn for dinner on a "regular" night. Nothing even close.

Golfette,I posted what I would consider wearing on "CCC/Smart casual" nights on HAL. I've been to country clubs for dinner also and the attire runs the gamut, dependent on the season.

Are you saying the 2 dresses, iyo, are too casual for the country clubs you've attended? Please elaborate.

I also added a sentence at the bottom of my post that elaborates on what I understood is worn on Oceania, which is totally ccc.

[caviargal]

I have cruised on Regent, which is country club casual. The pictures madelinerose posted outfits that were commonplace day and evening. For dinners, quite a few men wore sportcoats and the ladies were in dresses, skirts and tops with pretty heels or sandals. I would wear those or similar on HAL for smart casual though I am not much of a flats gal myself.

I never saw jeans or shorts in the dining rooms for dinner on Regent and imagine they would not have been acceptable.

The issue with jeans, IMHO, is that people will push the envelope and wear not so nice jeans with rips and ragged hems. When you open the door to jeans - which I think HAL made a mistake in doing - then it is downhill from there. It has happened on the other lines who now have no control at all at the outfits worn in their dining rooms.

[Golfette]

MadelineRose - in looking closer at your 1st two photos, I see the more casual look in them (the fabrics) and, yes, I can see wearing them at Smart Casual. At first I took them to be much more elaborate. What I see here at CC's are mostly nice capris and tops and some "gauzy " (spelling?) or cotton full skirts with tops. Sometimes even tennis or golf attire; although the tennis outfits are usually in the very early summer evening.

Caviargal - you are right about the jeans issue. I think the question of jeans that causes friction is the fact that a lot of us on the West Coast see "nice" designer jeans as a fashion statement and not as the horror that some seem to regard them. But, then, the latter folks are reacting to the type of worn, torn or "regular" jeans that one often sees and I can certainly understand those feelings and agree with them. The problem is semantics and jeans seem to be "genaric" for all denim wear.

[madelinerose]

I have cruised on Regent, which is country club casual. The pictures madelinerose posted outfits that were commonplace day and evening. For dinners, quite a few men wore sportcoats and the ladies were in dresses, skirts and tops with pretty heels or sandals. I would wear those or similar on HAL for smart casual though I am not much of a flats gal myself.

I never saw jeans or shorts in the dining rooms for dinner on Regent and imagine they would not have been acceptable.

The issue with jeans, IMHO, is that people will push the envelope and wear not so nice jeans with rips and ragged hems. When you open the door to jeans - which I think HAL made a mistake in doing - then it is downhill from there. It has happened on the other lines who now have no control at all at the outfits worn in their dining rooms.

Thanks, Kim. ;) To be honest, I didn't even really pay attention to shoes in the pics. They were for reference only....in other words, for the poster who was asking the meaning of ccc, any of the pics or variations thereof, would work.

[madelinerose]

MadelineRose - in looking closer at your 1st two photos, I see the more casual look in them (the fabrics) and, yes, I can see wearing them at Smart Casual. At first I took them to be much more elaborate. What I see here at CC's are mostly nice capris and tops and some "gauzy " (spelling?) or cotton full skirts with tops. .

Golfette...no, the fabrics are cotton jersey or cotton jersey/spandex. No, there's no silk, etc. I also think the gauzey things would work. In other words, I do not interpret tees and shorts of any length to mean "ccc/smart casual". I would wear pics 1, 2, 5 & 6 to a high end restaurant here. I can only think of 2 Baltimore restaurants where a jacket is still required attire for men, although most men would wear them anyway. ;)

[btobey]

Most people have enough common sense to dress appropriately.
I wish this were the case, but I'm not sure that it is... :(

[Solstice]

I see these clothing posts so often and usually avoid them but this one and the comments about jeans seems so odd that I have to join in.

First of all, I wouldn't wear denim blue jeans to a nice restaurant and I don't wear them to dinner on a cruise. I like to dress up a little and for me that's part of the fun. But I don't care what others wear and am not at all offended by those who choose to dress either more formally or less formally than I dress. I'm always baffled when I see someone's comment that they felt 'overdressed'. I don't understand why you would be concerned. If you want to wear it and it feels good, then flaunt it and enjoy it! If you are the only person in the room with sparkles on your shirt, then stand under the lights and let it shine.

I wore jeans constantly throughout my college years and I guess I've never felt the need to leave them behind. For me, they are the ultimate in comfort and as natural to put on as my watch. Only for yard work or hiking? I spend most of my life in jeans - some are nicer than others, but they are always the first thing I reach for. I don't mean anyone any offense when I wear them and don't think other jeans wearers do either. I don't think this is a West Coast or East Coast or Midwestern or Texas thing, either. I've lived in most of those places and people my age (mid-50's now) wore jeans. It's not a sign of wealth, or class, or politics, or education level or social status. It's just jeans.

I'm curious to know if the jeans-phobia is age related but I don't want to ask your ages! At one point in history, blue jeans were a working class item, then they became almost a symbol of rebellion and in the 90's moved into high fashion. Their manufacture and styling was uniquely American for a couple decades until the fashion designers 'discovered' them. But now they are just jeans. Worn everywhere and with the right accessories, accepted (just about) everywhere. How can they continue to offend?

[btobey]

Solstice, I'm 39, and I don't find jeans offense at all; they are still my usual weekend fare. However, like you said "I wouldn't wear denim blue jeans to a nice restaurant and I don't wear them to dinner on a cruise." I just wish that everyone had the common sense to see it this way, but some people don't. So, if you want to have a nice dinner in a nice restaurant, I think you need to specifically say "no jeans allowed."

(Btw, I went to a bridal shower a country club this past spring, and on the invite, it specifically mentioned that the club did not allow jeans. Personally, I would not wear jeans to something like a shower anyway, but people do these, days--that's the point.)

[madelinerose]

I'm curious to know if the jeans-phobia is age related but I don't want to ask your ages! How can they continue to offend?

No jeans phobia here. I'm wearing them as I speak/type.

[hammybee]

According to luxury portfolio.com, there are now only 2 restaurants in NYC that require a jacket and tie for entry. This same information has been confirmed by Zaggat and we are not talking about fast food establishments. Jeans are accepted everywhere.

Sounds to me like HAL and an overwhelming majority of cruise lines, at all price points, are responding to what their passengers want and are used to in land based restaurants.

Only a handful of mainstream cruise lines continue to ban jeans in the dining room on casual evenings:

Azamara
Celebrity *
Cunard
MSC
Regent

* Based upon the endless threads on the X board, Celebrity does not consistently enforce this.

I do not allow what other people wear impact the enjoyment of my cruise.

- hammybee
who does not wear jeans on a cruise

[cruznon]

A Californian speaking up here--jeans are not the "height of fashion" in our state. There are still the majority of us that dress up when going to a nice restaurant or dining room on a cruise ship. California get tapped for lots of trends/ideas, but can't lay this one on us.

[spacecat]

I don't care what you wore.....jeans, nice linen pants, beautiful silk ensemble.

What I am interested in is .... Were you aware HAL has a dress code when you booked your cruise? Did you read the Know Before you Go booklet HAL sends with our documents and read about the dress code in that booklet? Did you consider what that code is and what were your thoughts about the fact you booked at cruise ship which had a dress code? Did you ever consider whether you would abide by their stated dress code?

My reason for asking is to wonder how HAL may be failing in letting cruisers know about their code. Do people know about it and ignore it or were they genuinely and sincerely in the dark about it?

What I was responding to was the last sentence of a remark that I wasnt quite sure how to take. The remark was regarding NOT understanding why people wear jeans on vacation. I did a double take on that one. Its vacation, people!! Lighten up!!! I have to dress according to other peoples standards all week long at work, but on my hard earned vacation, I will dress how I please. Vacation equals relaxation....is that not so?

But to answer your questions: Yes, Yes, Yes....we did read everything made available to us. We read it, and we agreed: we were going to Alaska, not the Prom (I have already been flamed for the "prom" remark once before, but so be it) and since this was OUR VACATION, we would dress how we felt most comfortable.

We DID NOT enter the precious dining room with our jeans on. We thoroughly enjoyed the Lido and felt most comfortable there. The few times we entered the dining room (once for breakfast and twice for dinner) I wore what I wear to work (I believe the label is smart casual) and believe me, I wasnt happy about it....but I did it because I had read the literature and knew what was expected of me. Again, we never planned on attending formal nights because we read the dress code and knew it wasnt for us.

I hope that answers your questions as to whether HAL makes their statements clear enough. It was clear enough for us to understand, and we made the choice that while we wanted to sail HAL due to the itinerary, we didnt care enough about the dining room expectations to let it ruin our cruise. So we packed enough jeans for 7 days, ate where we were most comfortable, and had a great time! And I am sure the other people who packed 7 days worth of formals had a great time, too. The Noordam was beautiful.

Shari

[spacecat]

I see these clothing posts so often and usually avoid them but this one and the comments about jeans seems so odd that I have to join in.

First of all, I wouldn't wear denim blue jeans to a nice restaurant and I don't wear them to dinner on a cruise. I like to dress up a little and for me that's part of the fun. But I don't care what others wear and am not at all offended by those who choose to dress either more formally or less formally than I dress. I'm always baffled when I see someone's comment that they felt 'overdressed'. I don't understand why you would be concerned. If you want to wear it and it feels good, then flaunt it and enjoy it! If you are the only person in the room with sparkles on your shirt, then stand under the lights and let it shine.

I wore jeans constantly throughout my college years and I guess I've never felt the need to leave them behind. For me, they are the ultimate in comfort and as natural to put on as my watch. Only for yard work or hiking? I spend most of my life in jeans - some are nicer than others, but they are always the first thing I reach for. I don't mean anyone any offense when I wear them and don't think other jeans wearers do either. I don't think this is a West Coast or East Coast or Midwestern or Texas thing, either. I've lived in most of those places and people my age (mid-50's now) wore jeans. It's not a sign of wealth, or class, or politics, or education level or social status. It's just jeans.

I'm curious to know if the jeans-phobia is age related but I don't want to ask your ages! At one point in history, blue jeans were a working class item, then they became almost a symbol of rebellion and in the 90's moved into high fashion. Their manufacture and styling was uniquely American for a couple decades until the fashion designers 'discovered' them. But now they are just jeans. Worn everywhere and with the right accessories, accepted (just about) everywhere. How can they continue to offend?

I try to avoid these too but for some reason the whole "dress code" gets me. Its the rebel in me, I guess. I hate "labels" and the process of having to "conform" to other peoples ideas as to what is right.

Anyway, a California girl here.....just turned 50....other than the MANDATORY work clothes, nothin but jeans in my closet. Summer I accessorize with flip flops, in the winter with my Uggs.....how can you go wrong?

Haven't been kicked out of a restaurant yet...and no, I don't hang out at Denny's or McD's.....we have several outstanding steak houses here where you would look absolutely ridiculous in anything other than jeans (not that I would sit and snicker, but hey.....)

Shari

[O2B@C]

... Yes....we did read everything made available to us. We read it, and we agreed: we were going to Alaska, not the Prom ... and since this was OUR VACATION, we would dress how we felt most comfortable.

We DID NOT enter the precious dining room with our jeans on. We thoroughly enjoyed the Lido and felt most comfortable there. The few times we entered the dining room (once for breakfast and twice for dinner) I wore what I wear to work (I believe the label is smart casual) and believe me, I wasnt happy about it....but I did it because I had read the literature and knew what was expected of me. Again, we never planned on attending formal nights because we read the dress code and knew it wasnt for us .... we made the choice that while we wanted to sail HAL due to the itinerary, we didnt care enough about the dining room expectations to let it ruin our cruise. So we packed enough jeans for 7 days, ate where we were most comfortable, and had a great time! ... Shari

Good for you, Shari! I think you did exactly the right thing - you wore what you felt comfortable in, but you also fully accepted that this meant dining in the Lido. And you had a great time, which is the most important thing!

I don't mind dressing up, but my DH absolutely will not wear a tie, and certainly not on vacation. I can get him into a buttondown shirt and "nice" chinos, but that's as far as it goes. So we're planning to eat dinner via room service on formal nights, and that's fine by me.

[iancal]

No dress requirement in the Lido? Shocking..perhaps we should cancel our cruise. It is high time that they brought back the plank, and a personal favorite of ours- keel hauling.

[cruznon]

In re reading my post, I didn't mean for my post to sound judgemental, but see that it might be taken that way. I only wanted to state, that in California there's everything, but jeans not just a California thing.

[spacecat]

Good for you, Shari! I think you did exactly the right thing - you wore what you felt comfortable in, but you also fully accepted that this meant dining in the Lido. And you had a great time, which is the most important thing!

I don't mind dressing up, but my DH absolutely will not wear a tie, and certainly not on vacation. I can get him into a buttondown shirt and "nice" chinos, but that's as far as it goes. So we're planning to eat dinner via room service on formal nights, and that's fine by me.

Thanks for the kind response. I can't tell you how scary it is to read some of these posts and realize that some people think that if you wear jeans, you must not know how to read !!:)
Unfortunately, I read a LITTLE TOO much.....some stuff I must find a way to cut out....such as silly remarks about those of us who own stock in denim !!

Shari

[Golfette]

Shari - I'm with you. We are soon-to-be 1st time HAL cruisers (booked in May) and the vehemence contained in these dress code threads continues to surprise me. I know I'll be flamed for this, but from some of the postings on the subject you'd think "The Code" was sent directly from heaven. I believe the point most of us "nonbelievers" are trying to make is simply to lighten up a bit on the subject - it's not life or death, but simply a vacation.

The majority of us will either dress appropriately or eat in the Lido etc. We are not trying to ruin your vacation by appearing dressed in (horror!) blue jeans and baseball caps in the DR. Those very few who do can't be enough for all this excessive emotion on the subject:confused: ?

[peaches from georgia]

I look at the dress codes the same as the right of any company to set policy in their business. If a sign on a restaurant door says "No shirt, No shoes, No service" I don't think I have the right to go in w/out a shirt and demand to be served. If a movie theater says "No cell phones on during the movie" they have the right to kick you out if you disturb other patrons talking on your cell. If you don't like it go to another restaurant or theater. Management always has the right to set policy and I have the freedom to go where I like the policy.

[caviargal]

I look at the dress codes the same as the right of any company to set policy in their business. If a sign on a restaurant door says "No shirt, No shoes, No service" I don't think I have the right to go in w/out a shirt and demand to be served. If a movie theater says "No cell phones on during the movie" they have the right to kick you out if you disturb other patrons talking on your cell. If you don't like it go to another restaurant or theater. Management always has the right to set policy and I have the freedom to go where I like the policy.

Well said and I agree :).

I chose cruise lines, resorts and restaurants based upon my preferences. I appreciate those that maintain standards overall, including proper dress.

These anti dress code folks like to say that it is the rest of us who make the rules, thus ignoring the fact the cruise lines make them for a reason. Choosing to ignore them to dress as one wishes indicates a lack of respect and taste, IMO.

[spacecat]

Shari - I'm with you. We are soon-to-be 1st time HAL cruisers (booked in May) and the vehemence contained in these dress code threads continues to surprise me. I know I'll be flamed for this, but from some of the postings on the subject you'd think "The Code" was sent directly from heaven. I believe the point most of us "nonbelievers" are trying to make is simply to lighten up a bit on the subject - it's not life or death, but simply a vacation.

The majority of us will either dress appropriately or eat in the Lido etc. We are not trying to ruin your vacation by appearing dressed in (horror!) blue jeans and baseball caps in the DR. Those very few who do can't be enough for all this excessive emotion on the subject:confused: ?
If I had read half of this "jeans" nonsense before our cruise, I would have been scared to death to step on board!! Thank goodness I didn't.....

I guess what bothers me is that I have never, ever indicated that my husband and I set out to "break the rules". I dont think I have read any posts by anyone who came right out and said they have. What I AM reading is that people are not "into" dressing up, but that being said, they ARE following the rules. Somewhere along the line people are missing something. I keep running into comments about "following the rules, etc". It's like we walked onto a ship that had a huge banner that said "Noordam, Fashion Cruise Ship of the World" and snubbed our noses at it.

I don't know why those of us who DON'T LIKE DRESSING UP aren't afforded the courtesy of being allowed to be who we are. As long as (AND HERE IS THE IMPORTANT SENTENCE) we don't disregard the rules, why can't we be on the same ship? I have never once said we don't abide by the rules. I have indicated that I think they are silly, but I abide by them. And I think its even sillier to be told to sail a different cruise line. Or read the brochures.....etc.

I'm glad to find someone who seems to think like me! Its a little hard around here, doncha think?:D

[spacecat]

Shari - I'm with you. We are soon-to-be 1st time HAL cruisers (booked in May) and the vehemence contained in these dress code threads continues to surprise me. I know I'll be flamed for this, but from some of the postings on the subject you'd think "The Code" was sent directly from heaven. I believe the point most of us "nonbelievers" are trying to make is simply to lighten up a bit on the subject - it's not life or death, but simply a vacation.

The majority of us will either dress appropriately or eat in the Lido etc. We are not trying to ruin your vacation by appearing dressed in (horror!) blue jeans and baseball caps in the DR. Those very few who do can't be enough for all this excessive emotion on the subject:confused: ?
If I had read half of this "jeans" nonsense before our cruise, I would have been scared to death to step on board!! Thank goodness I didn't.....

I guess what bothers me is that I have never, ever indicated that my husband and I set out to "break the rules". I dont think I have read any posts by anyone who came right out and said they have. What I AM reading is that people are not "into" dressing up, but that being said, they ARE following the rules. Somewhere along the line people are missing something. I keep running into comments about "following the rules, etc". It's like we walked onto a ship that had a huge banner that said "Noordam, Fashion Cruise Ship of the World" and snubbed our noses at it.

I don't know why those of us who DON'T LIKE DRESSING UP aren't afforded the courtesy of being allowed to be who we are. As long as (AND HERE IS THE IMPORTANT SENTENCE) we don't disregard the rules, why can't we be on the same ship? I have never once said we don't abide by the rules. I have indicated that I think they are silly, but I abide by them. And I think its even sillier to be told to sail a different cruise line. Or read the brochures.....etc.

I'm glad to find someone who seems to think like me! Its a little hard around here, doncha think?:D

[Cruising-along]

Neither one of you has ever said you would disregard the rules. To the contrary, you have both always said you would dine somewhere else on nights that jeans aren't allowed in the dining room, or that you would dress up (even though you don't enjoy it).
Some of us do hear you. :)

[spacecat]

Neither one of you has ever said you would disregard the rules. To the contrary, you have both always said you would dine somewhere else on nights that jeans aren't allowed in the dining room, or that you would dress up (even though you don't enjoy it).
Some of us do hear you. :)

THANKS!!

SHARI

[Cruising-along]

THANKS!!

SHARI

You're welcome!

[Golfette]

Shari and Carolyn - Thank you. Shari your last post says it very well. We've always been ready to follow the "rules," never thought of not doing it, but all this carrying on about Codes, rules, etc. just gets my dander up (whatever "dander" is).

[AirGorilla]

What I was responding to was the last sentence of a remark that I wasnt quite sure how to take. The remark was regarding NOT understanding why people wear jeans on vacation. I did a double take on that one. Its vacation, people!! Lighten up!!! I have to dress according to other peoples standards all week long at work, but on my hard earned vacation, I will dress how I please. Vacation equals relaxation....is that not so?

But to answer your questions: Yes, Yes, Yes....we did read everything made available to us. We read it, and we agreed: we were going to Alaska, not the Prom (I have already been flamed for the "prom" remark once before, but so be it) and since this was OUR VACATION, we would dress how we felt most comfortable.

We DID NOT enter the precious dining room with our jeans on. We thoroughly enjoyed the Lido and felt most comfortable there. The few times we entered the dining room (once for breakfast and twice for dinner) I wore what I wear to work (I believe the label is smart casual) and believe me, I wasnt happy about it....but I did it because I had read the literature and knew what was expected of me. Again, we never planned on attending formal nights because we read the dress code and knew it wasnt for us.

I hope that answers your questions as to whether HAL makes their statements clear enough. It was clear enough for us to understand, and we made the choice that while we wanted to sail HAL due to the itinerary, we didnt care enough about the dining room expectations to let it ruin our cruise. So we packed enough jeans for 7 days, ate where we were most comfortable, and had a great time! And I am sure the other people who packed 7 days worth of formals had a great time, too. The Noordam was beautiful.

Shari
I really like your post, and am glad that you had a great time. I 'specially liked your characterization of the "precious dining room."

A very articulate, well-thought-out post! Thanks!!

[AirGorilla]

I have to voice my opinion on this subject and remember this is my opinion only. Anyone can dress as they like. Whatever you decide to wear during your vacation will not ruin my vacation...(unless it's smelly and you happen to be sitting next to me)


Although it does not specifically state that jeans are not allowed, come on people, jeans should not be worn in the Main Dining Room or the Pinnacle Grill. If you go out to dinner in a fancy restaurant in your hometown, don't you dress up a little? Granted you're on vacation, but isn't this vacation special for you? Are dress slacks and a shirt too much? A pair capris and top too much? I just don't understand why people wear jeans while they are on vacation...maybe they are planning to go hiking or do yard work right after dinner.

The dress code does not exclude jeans on Smart Casual evenings.

Therefore, your opinion of what everyone "should" or "should not" wear is nothing but preaching your personal opinions. The "hiking and yardwork" blather is simply that, blather.

[RuthC]

Therefore, your opinion of what everyone "should" or "should not" wear is nothing but preaching your personal opinions.
Which, of course, Palm Beacher has every right to, and to do.
The "hiking and yardwork" blather is simply that, blather.
Which is "preaching" your "personal opinion".

[jazncruiser]

Ok, Ok. I come from the late 60's-early 70's and having seen movies in the 50's and earlier. PERSONALLY, I and my DH love to dress for dinner, it is very romantic. We also enjoy a cocktail and dancing (actually not to the 60's-70's but to the 20's-30's-40's music before dinner.) I really enjoy having people "dress up" and consider this on of the main enjoyments of the cruise. As far as the Lido deck, I put a wrap around on and get my food and if I am going inside, I put a top on. This is common courtesy (as I was raised).

[jazncruiser]

By the way, I do have a long formal or two (I pick one or two depending on how I feel) that I bring on cruises (as well as how long I am going to be on board ship) as well as one or two "cocktail" dresses that are very nice. On informal, elegantly casual or what ever they call it now, it is nice slacks (business meeting attire) and top or nice skirt (elegant luncheon-going out on a lunch date, etc) & top. What ever you can afford. I really mix and match on my casual/elegantly casual nights so I don't have to bring too much. 2 skirts/1 pant plus 4 tops for a 10 or 11 night cruise plus 1 or 2 "formal" wear. So Ladies, whatever makes you and your DH or BF or Sig. Other feel good!!

[RevNeal]

Ok, Ok. I come from the late 60's-early 70's....

Time machine? Or, perhaps, time-dilation resulting from near light-speed interstellar travel?

[iancal]

I can only hope that some of the busybodies on this board who seem intent to pass judgement on all and sundry are in the minority on our cruise. I highly suspect they are in the very small minority.

[caviargal]

I can only hope that some of the busybodies on this board who seem intent to pass judgement on all and sundry are in the minority on our cruise. I highly suspect they are in the very small minority.

Fortunately, what has been in the very small minority on my HAL cruises were people who dressed down for dinner.;)

[RevNeal]

Fortunately, what has been in the very small minority on my HAL cruises were people who dressed down for dinner.;)

The "Dress Down Minority" ? :D ;)

[WELSH WIZARDS]

I have just returned from my first HAL cruise. On "formal night " almost all the men wore suits, but only a few wore tuxedos. Not a real problem. However , on "smart casual night " most people in the Main Dining Room were casual, some quite smart, some very smart, but some were very casual indeed . Track suit bottoms, knobby, holey , stained T or sweat shirts.
Why if you wish to dress like that would you not eat in the casual dining room ? Better still in your cabin !
I did not think I would find under dressing would be a bother to me, but I did. It turned a night out to dine into more like a trip to Macdonalds. I have another cruise with Hal in Dec. and have already paid other wise i would cancel. I find this degree of being "casual " too much for me.

[btobey]

However , on "smart casual night " most people in the Main Dining Room were casual, some quite smart, some very smart, but some were very casual indeed . Track suit bottoms, knobby, holey , stained T or sweat shirts.
Why if you wish to dress like that would you not eat in the casual dining room ? Better still in your cabin !
I did not think I would find under dressing would be a bother to me, but I did. It turned a night out to dine into more like a trip to Macdonalds. I have another cruise with Hal in Dec. and have already paid other wise i would cancel. I find this degree of being "casual " too much for me.
I totally agree! This is why I think that if HAL is going to continue "smart casual," they need to issue of what is NOT permitted, including shorts, jeans, sweats, and non-collared shirts for men. I really don't think those simple guidelines are too much to ask!!!

[caviargal]

I However , on "smart casual night " most people in the Main Dining Room were casual, some quite smart, some very smart, but some were very casual indeed . Track suit bottoms, knobby, holey , stained T or sweat shirts.
Why if you wish to dress like that would you not eat in the casual dining room ? Better still in your cabin !
I did not think I would find under dressing would be a bother to me, but I did. It turned a night out to dine into more like a trip to Macdonalds. I have another cruise with Hal in Dec. and have already paid other wise i would cancel. I find this degree of being "casual " too much for me.

I am sorry to say that I have now experienced this on all lines and it will only get worse as the cruise lines are not going to alienate passengers by enforcing a dress code.:(

We have booked our first Cunard cruise simply because we want to go back to a traditional experience with a formal dress code that is enforced, along with all of the niceties that come along with tradition.

My cruises these days are work related and we make other choices for vacation due to the decline in more standards than we are comfortable with. While I still enjoy HAL and they are my favorite of the mass market lines, the new code is a disappointment and I predict that enforcement will be ever more lax.

Since it is obvious from these boards - as well as onboard - that many newer cruisers prefer a dressed down atmosphere, we have decided to try the one line that appears to still hold with the true ocean liner experience. From the posts on their boards, I think we will be pleased.

[WELSH WIZARDS]

Most of our previos cruises have been with Celebrity. On formal nights the dress code was much more an occation , with the majority of men in dress suits, tuxs, etc. On informal nights, which Celebrity still has , most men wear a jacket , some with a tie. Still a feeling of out to "dine " , not just eat. Even on casual nights , I never remember seeing any people in the main dining room , as badly dressed as on Hal. By badly dressed I do mean scruffy, with the same clothes worn for three or four nights,

[RevNeal]

I have just returned from my first HAL cruise. On "formal night " almost all the men wore suits, but only a few wore tuxedos. Not a real problem. However , on "smart casual night " most people in the Main Dining Room were casual, some quite smart, some very smart, but some were very casual indeed . Track suit bottoms, knobby, holey , stained T or sweat shirts.

Was this an Alaska cruise? My Alaska cruise, in 2003, was the most casual/sloppy cruise I've ever been on. On formal nights very few men were in Tuxedos, most were in suite and slacks, jacket, and tie; the numbers in jeans, etc., even on formal night, were far higher than I'd ever seen before.

[RevNeal]

I totally agree! This is why I think that if HAL is going to continue "smart casual," they need to issue of what is NOT permitted, including shorts, jeans, sweats, and non-collared shirts for men. I really don't think those simple guidelines are too much to ask!!!

HAL already stipulates the following in HAL's current dress code:

Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and sports shirt or sweater for men and skirt or trousers and sweater or blouse for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours.

I've highlighted "not allowed" because this language is the least ambiguous part of the Dress code.

[RevNeal]

Since it is obvious from these boards - as well as onboard - that many newer cruisers prefer a dressed down atmosphere, we have decided to try the one line that appears to still hold with the true ocean liner experience. From the posts on their boards, I think we will be pleased.

I don't blame you. I'm looking toward a Cunard cruise, myself, at some point in the not too distant future. Just to see if I like it.

[WELSH WIZARDS]

Was this an Alaska cruise? My Alaska cruise, in 2003, was the most casual/sloppy cruise I've ever been on. On formal nights very few men were in Tuxedos, most were in suite and slacks, jacket, and tie; the numbers in jeans, etc., even on formal night, were far higher than I'd ever seen before.
No, that was why it was was so surprising . It was a 15 day cruise around Europe. Had it been the Caribbean or similar, it would be slightly more expected.
Perhaps if Hal stipulated "Casual IS defined ONLY as ...." instead of " can be defined as." ...people would dress "up" a little more.

[RuthC]

Perhaps if Hal stipulated "Casual IS defined ONLY as ...." instead of " can be defined as." ...people would dress "up" a little more.
Sadly, I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope on that one. :( It's as if there's a Limbo dance going on---no matter how low HAL sets the bar there's always a few who will go lower. :rolleyes:

There's those who don't want to "dress up" for formal, so the code is sport coat w/tie; HAL lowered the code when it eliminated "informal". So folks were given a standard of "just look presentable" for most every night, and they can't even do that.

Don't hold your breath, Welsh Wizard, that another change in definition will do any good.

[spacecat]

Most of our previos cruises have been with Celebrity. On formal nights the dress code was much more an occation , with the majority of men in dress suits, tuxs, etc. On informal nights, which Celebrity still has , most men wear a jacket , some with a tie. Still a feeling of out to "dine " , not just eat. Even on casual nights , I never remember seeing any people in the main dining room , as badly dressed as on Hal. By badly dressed I do mean scruffy, with the same clothes worn for three or four nights,

Unless you actually "roomed" with these people with the "scruffy" clothes, how would you know if these were the same clothes worn for 3 or 4 nights?:(

I guess I obviously dont pay enough attention to how other people dress, so I wouldn't remember if I saw that same person the day before (and the day before that, and the day before that) with the same outfit on !!

(Oh...and what does that say about all those kids in private schools who have to wear the same clothes every day?)

Shari
Queen of Jeans:)

[hammybee]

Perhaps if Hal stipulated "Casual IS defined ONLY as ...." instead of " can be defined as." ...people would dress "up" a little more.

If it takes a dress code to compel people to dress up, then the battle has already been lost.

[Copper10-8]

I say and say again: are not dress code threats fun?;)

[WeLoveCruising]

I say and say again: are not dress code threats fun?;)

:) John,
I assume you meant THREADS...but what a Freudian slip :)

I'm glad you're back and looking forward to reading more about your Rotterdam cruise.

Joanne

[Cruising-along]

:) John,
I assume you meant THREADS...but what a Freudian slip :)

I'm glad you're back and looking forward to reading more about your Rotterdam cruise.

Joanne

Exactly what I was thinking, LOL -- I'm assuming it was a Freudian slip too, and a good one at that!
Welcome back John :D

[hammybee]

I say and say again: are not dress code threats fun?;)

Where are you, sir?

[RevNeal]

I say and say again: are not dress code threats fun?;)

LOL!
http://www.revneal.org/Resources/emoticons/rofl.gif

[WeLoveCruising]

Copper's Idea of Fun:

Don't you even think of wearing those jeans!

[WELSH WIZARDS]

Unless you actually "roomed" with these people with the "scruffy" clothes, how would you know if these were the same clothes worn for 3 or 4 nights?:(

I guess I obviously dont pay enough attention to how other people dress, so I wouldn't remember if I saw that same person the day before (and the day before that, and the day before that) with the same outfit on !!

(Oh...and what does that say about all those kids in private schools who have to wear the same clothes every day?)

Shari
Queen of Jeans:)
Shari......You are a female. There is NO WOMAN on the planet who would not notice if one of her table mates had an outfit on at dinner, then on a tour, then at the quiz, then at dinnner the next night, then next day by the pool, and yes you have guessed, dinner again. I did not say it had not been laundered, and dried, { !} every night , I have no way of knowing , but even my husband commented how much she wore the same thing.! Maybe she had 4 the same. :)
I hope she is not on CC. :o

[spacecat]

Shari......You are a female. There is NO WOMAN on the planet who would not notice if one of her table mates had an outfit on at dinner, then on a tour, then at the quiz, then at dinnner the next night, then next day by the pool, and yes you have guessed, dinner again. I did not say it had not been laundered, and dried, { !} every night , I have no way of knowing , but even my husband commented how much she wore the same thing.! Maybe she had 4 the same. :)
I hope she is not on CC. :o

Yes, I am a female but thats about all we can agree on. Maybe people think I wear the same pair of jeans every day.....I happen to like a certain style and have several pair that look exactly alike and thats what I wear. At home, at the grocery store, the g-kids soccer games, work on Casual Fridays.

I just DON'T pay that much attention to what people wear (or don't wear for that matter). We went out to dinner with my son and his fiancee last night and for the life of me, I can't tell you what either of them wore, but I could sure tell you what we talked about!!!:D

Shari

[Golfette]

Ah Sheri - you put your finger on the important points! You went to dinner with your son & his fiancee & you remembered what you talked about. Not what they wore. Really, people, except for the fact that we obviously have too much idle time on our hands what are we arguing about?:rolleyes:

[Cruising-along]

I just DON'T pay that much attention to what people wear (or don't wear for that matter). We went out to dinner with my son and his fiancee last night and for the life of me, I can't tell you what either of them wore, but I could sure tell you what we talked about!!!:D

Shari

Shari I'm the same way. I have to look at photos after an event to see what people were wearing. I just don't pay that much attention to what people wear (unless it's SO unusual nobody could miss it). But I always remember what we talked about ;) I would probably never notice if someone wore something several times unless it was an extremely unusual outfit.

[ON cruiser]

Folks,
I confess I have not read all 5 pages of this thread but hope you can still indulge a person who is only on this interesting forum occasionally. Let me state my bias: we liked the old, "formal, informal, casual". On formal nights my wife dressed up and I put on either a tux or dinner jacket. Informal meant for me a blazer or sports jacket, with tie sometimes. Informal for me meant a nice shirt, and if cool enough in dining room, even a jacket with slacks. My wife always has excellent taste and dresses accordingly.

Our cruise last Spring, two Caribbean 7 days combined on Westerdam, was the first experience with formal and casual only. As I had already packed my jackets, I still wore them, and my wife still wore her dressier clothes. We are going on the circle Hawaii cruise in Nov, and as this is a longer cruise with perhaps a less family oriented group (We travelled during Spring break, unwittingly, last spring!) my thoughts/hopes are that despite the official changes people on this cruise, at this time, may still dress to a slightly dressier standard?

My wife has enough clothes sense to know what to do. This question is mainly for me, and is related to how the men are dressing in the main dining room for dinner. For our upcoming cruise, I would, before the changes, as there still are 4 formal nights (the rest now all "smart casual" according to the ticket information) bring both the tux and dinner jacket and alternate them with various cummerbunds, vests, bow ties (yes, I am a clothes horse and cheerily admit it) but do not want to be so far out of place/step as to look ridiculous. Also, if all the guys are dressing down, so will the ladies, and I do not want to dress better than my wife! I would also like to take two jackets: one navy blazer that can be easily dressed up or down, and one lightweight jacket that also be coordinated with cotton slacks.

With the changes is that all overkill? Too much? Drop either the tux, dinner jacket, both, and only go with the two jackets (how dull!). Packing is not a concern this time as I am using points and we are in bizz. class, with the larger weight allowance. We are also at a table for two in the dining room, and the Zaandam for this cruise still has the set times, so we are at the 8 pm main upper dining seating.

Frankly, I miss everyone dressing up for dinner--as one would when going to an upscale eatery at home. The ladies get a chance to wear their sparklies, the guys shine up well and it is a change from what we see during the day, on tours, or at the pool deck. But, the change is upon us so, what are the ideas/advice as to how to adapt? Or, should I just be defiant and wear it all, and take the risk of being laughed at?

Many thanks in anticipation.

[WELSH WIZARDS]

On cruiser.....Providing you have no problem with weight I would take all the outfits YOU think make you feel at your best. No one can ever look to smart.
I do not wish to give the impression that most people did not " dress up ". They did. My point was that on casual night, casual was interpreted by a minority as very casual indeed.
Its your cruise ....wear your best stuff....and enjoy yourself.
Others , I assure you...will be doing their thing ....and dressing down as much as they like.

[Big Kielbasa]

I have searched multiple boards, but haven't found the answer to this question....as we are leaving in 36 days for our very first cruise (15 days to Hawaii) I would appreciate any help you can provide.

If you choose to enjoy dinner on the Lido deck what is the dress code? Is it still the "country club" or "smart" casual? Or is it more informal?



Dinner on the lido deck was just about come as you are on our Alaska cruise tour. There was nothing smart or casual about anyone's dress. What I saw was swim suits to almost formal wear. :)

[RevNeal]

Dinner on the lido deck was just about come as you are on our Alaska cruise tour. There was nothing smart or casual about anyone's dress. What I saw was swim suits to almost formal wear. :)

One has to be careful in compairing a 7-day Alaska Cruise with a 15 Day cruise to Hawaii, round trip out of San Diego. They're two completely different passenger-bases, with radically different kinds of itineraries. On the Hawaii cruise -- this one being a 15 Day cruise in late October/early November -- the age range will be higher, more passengers will be past-cruisers, and there will be agreat sense of formality throughout the ship, particularly on Sea Days (of which there are 10 -- yes, TEN -- on a 15 day Hawaii Cruise). In Hawaii all nights are "Hawaiian Casual," and it's a great place and way of dealing with the port-intensive portion of such a cruise. For the 5 days in-transit to Hawaii and the 5 days in-transit back to the mainland, however, there are (usually, but not always) 2 Formal Nights each way. Passengers may not be as prone to dresing all the way down to bathing suits during dinner in the Lido.

[caviargal]

I just DON'T pay that much attention to what people wear (or don't wear for that matter). We went out to dinner with my son and his fiancee last night and for the life of me, I can't tell you what either of them wore, but I could sure tell you what we talked about!!!:D

Shari

Enjoying converstion and noticing clothing are not mutually exclusive.;) I happen to love clothes and fashion both and I could actually tell you what everyone at our table wore on formal night on my April cruise on the Oosterdam. I always notice fabulous outfits and I also people who look like they wandered into the dining room by mistake, thinking it was a roadside diner.

Just because some of us enjoy dressing up and being around others who share those sentiments (therefore choosing lines where is a good percentage of compliance to the dress code) does not mean we are any less into great conservation and enjoying the company of others.

[Cruising-along]

Just because some of us enjoy dressing up and being around others who share those sentiments (therefore choosing lines where is a good percentage of compliance to the dress code) does not mean we are any less into great conservation and enjoying the company of others.

I don't think anyone was implying that those who like to dress up aren't into great conversation. :confused: The point was that some people notice fashion and attire more than others do, and some care more about what others are wearing than others care. I think it's wonderful that you're into fashion and conversation, I'm sure you aren't the only one. :D I like to dress up, but I could care less what others are wearing. :)

[Copper10-8]

I don't think anyone was implying that those who like to dress up aren't into great conversation. :confused: The point was that some people notice fashion and attire more than others do, and some care more about what others are wearing than others care. I think it's wonderful that you're into fashion and conversation, I'm sure you aren't the only one. :D I like to dress up, but I could care less what others are wearing. :)

I'd like to go on the record that I am NOT into fashion:p Now, conversation is something entirely different!

[bicker]

I chose cruise lines, resorts and restaurants based upon my preferences. I appreciate those that maintain standards overall, including proper dress.That's a good idea, though since Holland America permits jeans, are you suggesting that would make sense that folks who don't want to see jeans cruise another cruise line? :confused:

[bicker]

Why if you wish to dress like that would you not eat in the casual dining room ? Better still in your cabin ! I would never dress like that, but I can project what I believe is the reason that people eat in the dining room: Service. One of the great joys for folks cruising in the fine service that they get in the dining room.

Also, I suspect that folks who dress in a manner other than how you and I dress would ask us why we change clothes before dinner on casual nights, given that it is not necessary. We do it because it makes us feel more comfortable. Which is probably the reason why they don't change clothes. Both are therefore appropriate.

I did not think I would find under dressing would be a bother to me, but I did. It turned a night out to dine into more like a trip to Macdonalds. I have another cruise with Hal in Dec. and have already paid other wise i would cancel. I find this degree of being "casual " too much for me.I understand that some of the more expensive cruise lines tend to have dress codes requiring more formality, even on casual nights, than affordable cruise lines like Holland America.

[bicker]

I totally agree! This is why I think that if HAL is going to continue "smart casual," they need to issue of what is NOT permitted, including shorts, jeans, sweats, and non-collared shirts for men. I really don't think those simple guidelines are too much to ask!!!As someone who wouldn't wear shorts, jeans, sweats or non-collared shirts, I doubt either of us are qualified to say whether it is "too much to ask". It is so easy to cast-away some aspect that you don't care about but that, perhaps, others do care about.

[bicker]

Shari......You are a female. There is NO WOMAN on the planet who would not notice if one of her table mates had an outfit on at dinner, then on a tour, then at the quiz, then at dinnner the next night, then next day by the pool, and yes you have guessed, dinner again. To be fair, I'll wear some article of clothing again, if I only wore it for a couple of hours previously. I wear shirts and pants, typically, for 8-12 hours a day, so don't have any concern about wearing something a second time, if I have only worn it a couple of hours previously, and is still presentable and appropriate for what I am wearing it for.

Waste not, want not. http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/smilies/teacher.gif

[bicker]

Packing is not a concern this time as I am using points and we are in bizz. class, with the larger weight allowance.And that really points out one of the reasons for these changes. More folks cruising these days are looking for affordability, and paying the cost of business class, or the extra cost for excess luggage, doesn't contribute to affordability, nor does having to engage the ship laundry to bridge the gap.

But, the change is upon us so, what are the ideas/advice as to how to adapt? Or, should I just be defiant and wear it all, and take the risk of being laughed at?I suspect few folks will really care whether you're dressed up a bit more formally or not. And those that do aren't worth being bothered about. Wear what you feel comfortable wearing, as long as it complies with the stated dress code.

[caviargal]

That's a good idea, though since Holland America permits jeans, are you suggesting that would make sense that folks who don't want to see jeans cruise another cruise line? :confused:

I have seen jeans on every line that I have cruised over the past several years and it is really irrelevant whether the cruise line's dress code permits it as people do what they please. :( Only on HAL have I seen the dress code enforced and that was prior to the new changes.

If folks want a traditional atmosphere with enforced dress codes, it appears that Cunard is one of the only lines who can deliver. Crystal used to strictly enforce their dress code but posts on their board indicate otherwise.

IMO, HAL is still a step above the other mass market lines in many ways but is succumbing to the pressures of competition by choosing to allow jeans at dinner in the main dining room. It is the first step to further erosion IME and shorts, sweats and ball caps are sure to follow, just as they have on RCI and Celebrity.

[caviargal]

That's a good idea, though since Holland America permits jeans, are you suggesting that would make sense that folks who don't want to see jeans cruise another cruise line? :confused:

I have seen jeans on every line that I have cruised over the past several years and it is really irrelevant whether the cruise line's dress code permits it as people do what they please. :( Only on HAL have I seen the dress code enforced and that was prior to the new changes.

If folks want a traditional atmosphere with enforced dress codes, it appears that Cunard is one of the only lines who can deliver. Crystal used to strictly enforce their dress code but posts on their board indicate otherwise.

IMO, HAL is still a step above the other mass market lines in many ways but is succumbing to the pressures of competition by choosing to allow jeans at dinner in the main dining room. It is the first step to further erosion IME and shorts, sweats and ball caps are sure to follow, just as they have on RCI and Celebrity.

[ON cruiser]

Thanks for the direct and indirect responses re my query on dress code for our November Circle Hawaii cruise. Regards,

[spacecat]

That's a good idea, though since Holland America permits jeans, are you suggesting that would make sense that folks who don't want to see jeans cruise another cruise line? :confused:

Thank you for this statement.

Every time it has been suggested to me to try a different cruise line, I have wondered why the person so offended doesnt take their own advice!;)

Shari
Queen of Jeans:)

[RevNeal]

Thank you for this statement.

Every time it has been suggested to me to try a different cruise line, I have wondered why the person so offended doesnt take their own advice!;)

Shari
Queen of Jeans:)

Some have.

[spacecat]

Some have.
And maybe some more ought to!!:)

[spacecat]

Enjoying converstion and noticing clothing are not mutually exclusive.;) I happen to love clothes and fashion both and I could actually tell you what everyone at our table wore on formal night on my April cruise on the Oosterdam. I always notice fabulous outfits and I also people who look like they wandered into the dining room by mistake, thinking it was a roadside diner.

Just because some of us enjoy dressing up and being around others who share those sentiments (therefore choosing lines where is a good percentage of compliance to the dress code) does not mean we are any less into great conservation and enjoying the company of others.

It has already been said, but I will reply myself: in no way was I implying that one can't enjoy fashion AND a conversation at the same time. What I am saying is that I PERSONALLY do not care, nor do I notice, what someone else wears to dinner. It does NOT make or break my dining experience, and yes, I admit, I have a hard time understanding why it affects some people the way it does.

Sometimes the roadside diners offer a whole lot more entertainment than a stuffy old dining room:)

Shari

[WELSH WIZARDS]

To be fair, I'll wear some article of clothing again, if I only wore it for a couple of hours previously. I wear shirts and pants, typically, for 8-12 hours a day, so don't have any concern about wearing something a second time, if I have only worn it a couple of hours previously, and is still presentable and appropriate for what I am wearing it for.

Waste not, want not. http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/smilies/teacher.gif
I would imagine that almost everyone an a cruise wears the same clothes more than once.
The point I was making when I wrote
" one of my table mates had an outfit on at dinner, then on a tour, then at the quiz, then at dinnner the next night, then next day by the pool, and yes you have guessed, dinner again. "
The point I was making was that someone had the same outfit on at ALL times, including every evening dinner, well into the 4th day. My contention was I did not believe even the person I addessed my post to who said she never noticed what people wore, would have eventually noticed that. !

[bicker]

Thank you for this statement. It wasn't a statement -- just a question... but you're welcome anyway. :)

Every time it has been suggested to me to try a different cruise line, I have wondered why the person so offended doesnt take their own advice!;) That is a good point. It does seem that the door swings both ways.

[RevNeal]

And maybe some more ought to!!:)

Good for goose ... good for gander?

[xpcdoojk]

And what does "country club casual" mean pray tell? Or am I one of the rare few who isn't even sure what a country club is ?

Jocelysue from a "nation" where English is not the main language, and who wonders whether a country has only one club or not.

They do play golf north of the border, right? Country club is a golf club that has a restaurant and social activities.

jc:D