Is it just me?

[ekerr19]

I think I've addressed this issue in the past - but it still continues to amaze me, and this is it - DH and I are not extremely wealthy. We feel we are very comfortable with our current lifestyle. We also feel lucky enough to have taken our kids on numerous cruises, and want to continue to cruise on HAL.

All last week, I went round & round with my TA - (whom we've used for many years, and I have an enormous respect for) here's my dilemma,

I am unhappy about the current HAL pricing...

I have been a HAL mariner since 1984 - we usually get great deals - this time, not so... what gives?

Sail, you posted about getting Brochure pricing? How can this be?

I'm not sure I understand what HAL is doing with the 2005 schedule pricing...there are few discounts to be had. The current pricing is not that great at all. Should we wait? Will it get better? Worse? Please Help!



.

[sail7seas]

I don't know the answer but I THINK it is a case of """"""they can"""""" !!!! Any business can/will price their product at the highest amount the market will bear.

If they can sell the cabin for 15% more, why would they sell it for 15% less?

We have the choice to agree to their price.....or not.

I'm happy you found a price you feel you can agree to and have booked your Volendam cruise.

We were not agreeable to the price they wanted for a repeat of our Maasdam cruise, so we refused to book it. I am very sure someone else will buy that cabin. The question, of course, is that as the date of the cruise gets closer, will they lower the price?

[FlorenceItaly]

I know what you are saying about the 2005 rates...I have noticed it too.

My first HAL cruise was in June, and I enjoyed it so much I came home and booked Alaska for this month with HAL...both very reasonable solo pricing. I am not seeing the same reasonable solo pricing for 2005, so I am not sure how long I will be cruising HAL, and am glad I took/am taking 2 this year. I don't always cruise solo, but currently my preference is HAL, especially for solo cruising. My dh has very limited time off due to starting a new job in Nov. I hope as 2005 nears we see prices drops, but I don't know...people are back cruising again, and I am seeing this same trend with the other cruiselines too. Meanwhile I am very glad I booked my 3 upcoming 2005 cruises(on other lines) many months ago, and got some very good pricing.

Marie

[ekerr19]

Sail-

I'm glad you found something else - considering your long term TA wasn't on top of the booking - just not acceptable, IMO. I am glad you were able to book your Suite on the sailing that worked for you.

But in all honesty, why should this be? You are HUGE Mariners, long time HAL cruisers, many days at sea... IMO, HAl should be going above & beyond for people like you, KK, doone, liz, jean, revneal; all of us! My Mom & Dad have many days at sea with HAl, Cunard, Princess, (once Carnival - which my Mom would prefer NOT discussing!) there are even others, Iknick, Steve777 , Stevesan, peaches, heather in FLL, lisa in vegas, jim in vegas, Marie, orcrone, jacqueline, also TONS others that contribute... (and there are many of you - if I've left you out - PLEASE don't be offended - I just posted the ones I remembered off the top of my head) of other regular posters who consistenly book HAL .. but what are they really doing for mariners? Sure the rates have gone down - but so have the immenities.. Meatloaf - jeez, as peaches says, I can make that at home!

I'm just concerned about the overall product - no more prime rib? Half a lobster tail? Well, these are all the things associated with the price decreases, IMO. Any other thoughts?

[sail7seas]

First we say the prices are higher.


Then we say the prices are lower and cuts are made because of that.

We are correct, I think, on both counts.

The prices for the Caribbean must remain competitive as their is so much.....competition.

The prices for Canada/New England can be higher. Far less competition.

Lengthy Asian Rim cruises....not much competition.

As much as it would be nice to see HAL offer some of the extras that cruiselines such as Princess and Celebrity do for the repeaters, I don't care all that much about those sort of things as I do that they maintain the product at a reasonable level of comparison to what we have come to expect and to be buying when we plunk down our vacation dollars.

I have seen some cutbacks, as have others. To date, they are not that disturbing to me. A few things irk a bit but for the most part, we are still HAPPY HAL Cruisers. :)

Like everyone, we certainly have our limits. When/if things change to a point that is unacceptable to us....we will have decisions to make.

But.......thankfully, it is a vacation. It is not life or death. We will be among the last to leave if that ship is sinking. We adore the people of HAL....we have many crew friends who we care a great deal about. As long as the people of HAL remain, we most likely will as well.

[localady]

I honestly believe the reason is because booking industry wide for the Carnival Corp. is ahead of projections for 2005 bookings appx. 8%. :eek: We talked to so many new cruisers that I get the feeling, HAL is happier to have them book than for us to book and expect discounts and shipboard credits etc. I think that HAL should come up to par with other cruiselines on their perks for HAL Mariners with over 100 days on board or simular.:cool:

[jazzsea]

I've been comparing HAL pricing to that of other cruise lines for 2005. It seems that most of the cruise lines have raised their pricing... Anywhere from 15 - 31 % versus last winter. In the last 18 months, we in the travel business have found strong support from the cruise lines in maintaining reasonable prices while offering many new home port itineraries. Now we see price increases, and big ones at that. I think the cruise lines are "testing the waters" (no pun intended) and will drop prices back to normal during September and October.

My suggestion would be to book the cruise and stateroom of your choice and watch the HAL pricing over the next 90 days. The great benefit is that you can cancel or cancel and rebook without penalty (outside of 76 days) if and when the pricing drops. You have the cabin that you wanted and are paying a lower price.

Most of you already know that September and October are very slow months for the cruise lines. They have to generate income and deposits even when they are slow so their new promotions might help your vacation bottom line.

I don't really worry about Holland America Line. They have been around a long time.

[ekerr19]

Sail-

I agree, cruising is certainly is not life or death.

The cost of crusing has dropped considerably since my first cruise in 1984. I posted the prices for that sailing, and they were much higher back then than they are today.

My issue is that it seems HAL doesn't really respect the Mariner status (they almost expect it) and I'm not sure I get their current position.

Why not give Mariner's priority bookings? We get reduced pricing (and not always that much) - but that is about it - I'm not slamming HAL, just putting the question out there...

What would make HAL better - in your own opinion?

[ekerr19]

Carol-

We seen the same. We feel as HAL mariner's there should be better than a 10-20% price decrease... it really should be based upon the number of days you've sailed with HAL, IMO.

Why should someone who has sailed one HAL cruise get the same pricing as someone who has sailed 300+ days? It is not right, IMO.

[sail7seas]

I understand what you are saying, ekerr. As someone who has cruised alot with the company, I truly do not expect my price to be different than someone booking for the first time. I see your reasoning and respect it but, personally, I don't expect anything special in the way of additional discount over anyone who is trying to make a booking.

What I do like/enjoy/appreciate is the experience we have when aboard the ships. There are times when it is nice to be recognized from a previous cruise; a little extra treat; an enjoyable chat with an officer we cruised with 2 years ago......that sort of thing. In many ways, I value that more than an additional discount that I personally do not think is warranted.

I shop at the same department store often; for many years. I pay the same price as someone who entered the store for the first time that day. I don't get an extra discount from Macy's; why would HAL give me more off my fare?

[ekerr19]

I understand what you are saying, ekerr. As someone who has cruised alot with the company, I truly do not expect my price to be different than someone booking for the first time. I see your reasoning and respect it but, personally, I don't expect anything special in the way of additional discount over anyone who is trying to make a booking.

What I do like/enjoy/appreciate is the experience we have when aboard the ships. There are times when it is nice to be recognized from a previous cruise; a little extra treat; an enjoyable chat with an officer we cruised with 2 years ago......that sort of thing. In many ways, I value that more than an additional discount that I personally do not think is warranted.

I shop at the same department store often; for many years. I pay the same price as someone who entered the store for the first time that day. I don't get an extra discount from Macy's; why would HAL give me more off my fare?

Sail -

I respect your opinion. If you go to Filene's - you don't pay any more or any less than another shopper. (Please don't tell me Filene's is closed - my Mom could not bear it!); but you have at least 200+ - 300+ days on HAL. HAL is not Filenes nor Nordstroms or Barneys... we shop at the same super-market in Denver and we periodically receive 20% off our total bill -based upon a $800 monthly purchase... but, I receive that savings based upon customer loyalty.

So, for someone like you - I would think you should have AT LEAST a 30% discount off the lowest price, whatever cabin or category you book - this being 30% off the lowest published price you find - why not?

There are so many out there deserving this - granny & liz are just off the Rotterdam (I think) why not extend a huge savings to them on the next voyage? What about yourself (S7S), KK, gizmo, grannynurse, liz, doone, iknick? These are all b2b and long voyage (transatlantic) crusiers.... oh, gosh please let me not forget the happy wanderer who has thus far kept us all so entertained....

Then there are the intermediate cruisers who post - maybe those that choose not to list how many HAL cruises they've been on, also some of the veteran's - no doubt. What about the rest of those who post regularly and have cruised with HAL more than once? What is HAL waiting for?

(PS - I list my cruises because I am actually looking for someone I sailed with in 1984 and hope they will see it :) ).

Why can't we get any more savings other than published prices?

Why must HAL feel all of us are to be ignored? Why not pass any savings onto these loyal pax. I know there are more of you out there - please POST! - this truly may only be the way HAL see's all of us- why can't the savings be automatic?

[Nasmas]

We have always sailed with HAL and are always happy with what we get. It does seem that the Mariners dont' get the same deals we used to. Of course, this was all before the 'net and all we knew were local TAs. We thought everyone paid the same price. How naive is that? Now, if you go to HAL's website to get a price, its only like 2% below what they say they are charging others, but IMHO, if you are a first timer & call them, you'll probably get the same deal. I would think loyalty would count for something. I know they'd rather you use a TA but we got our suite $300pp below what they wanted for it on their website. I looked at just about every on-line TA there is. We're not cheap or poor but I hate to think that someone got the same room we did for $$$ lower. I don't know where they are going. I hope its not going to be for the worst. We cruised in March '03, and it was wonderful. We are booked on the Zuiderdam in Sept. and I really do have some concerns about what some are saying are cutbacks. But, also, we just returned from Destin, FL and we booked two two-bedroom condos for $2400 per week each. Then, we had to dish out numerous $$$ for the food. So, we're getting 7 days on the ship with food included for a lot less. So, its still a good deal. And, the cruise is so much more fun & relaxing. No traffic jams and sitting in a snarl for 45 minutes when you're going to dinner less than a mile away. Cruising is the only way to go. I just hope they dont' price themselves out of our market.

[jazzsea]

I've been cruising with Holland America for a number of years. There is no doubt that I love their product.

Many of you "know" each other from these boards. You probably have each others email addresses, right? The next time you want to book with HAL, ask your TA to set up a group on the date and ship that you would like. Let your friends here on the boards know about the date and pricing. Group pricing is almost always lower than regular pricing.

Here is the best part. Holland America will honor the group pricing even if you are the only person or couple that books.

I am not soliciting business, please. I have my hands full right now with my 94 year old mother in a nursing home (as of yesterday) and my 92 year old father waiting for vascular surgery on Wednesday. Add that to the 850 people I have booked on Rotterdam in Janaury and you will understand. I do need an assistant? Anyone interested???

[doone]

Stay tuned, I have always found that the prices for most cruises in the winter will go down in September/October. Although to get the great ammenities that we have enjoyed way back when, before discounted prices, I'd pay more!!!!!!

[gizmo]

I'm not sure I understand what HAL is doing with the 2005 schedule pricing...there are few discounts to be had. The current pricing is not that great at all. Should we wait? Will it get better? Worse? Please Help!
I honestly do not feel prices are any different now than they have been for the last couple of years. There has been some good deals out there, but you have to spend a lot of time to find them.

This entire subject is very confusing. For instance that Veendam Nov 2005 cruise that a lot of people from this board booked was a terrific price when it first came out. The cruise sold well and the prices have gone up. It is still not a bad price for a 14 day cruise.

Lots of people go ahead and book a cruise even at a high price and hope it comes down. Many times it does. Doone did a very early booking for March cruise and that cruise came down and she had her price reduced once already. About 2 weeks ago I looked at a March cruise for a friend and prices were ok. I just looked at it again and it is back up and sky high. Go figure.

You can always book a cruise and keep watching prices then move it to the better priced cruise.

As far as being a Mariner, this does not always buy you anything. If you check a cruise on Hal's site that is close to sailing date, you might find that the pricing is the same for a Mariner on on Mariner. It has been like this for a long time.

Group rates sometimes work, but sometimes not. I booked under a group rate a couple of years ago, a year out. Hal dropped the price below my price but would not reduce it for me because it was under a group booking. I got myself out of that group fast!

[doone]

Gizmo, your right, I booked this Volendam cruise while still on the Rotterdam, about a year out. I booked it at $1,333, something like that, it went down to $1,200 something, I got the reduced price, now its upto $1,497, so who knows. For a 10-day cruise, in the past, I usually get an inside cabin and pay just about $1,100, per person, which I think is an excellent price for 10-days. BUT then again, I get a cabin to myself and have to pay that single supplement, but that's my choice. This year on the Volendam I am sharing the cabin with my god mother, her first cruise and she's so excited.

Just keep watching the prices, you just never know.

[FlorenceItaly]

doone - $1100 is an excellent price for sailing solo 10 day. I am finding NOTHING that low for end of 2004 or 2005.

Have a wonderful cruise!

Marie

[doone]

ExaltHim, that price is for one person, double occupancy, not solo, I think I paid about $1,650 last time on the Volendam, solo. I don't think that's too bad for 10-days, cabin to myself. Stay tuned, I didn't book the cruise at that, it went down over the months after I booked it. My TA got me the lower price and that's what I ended up paying. This year I am sharing with my god mother, she's so excited, her first cruise, and I'll save a few bucks also. Good thing as I sail the Zuiderdam the week before the Volendam!!!!!!

[TedC]

I think that cruiseline pricing is similar to airline pricing - complex. But I also think both are basically based on the familiar "supply and demand."

If there are a lot of seats or cabins unsold, the price tends to come down.

I also think it is unreasonable for Mariners to expect to pay 20 or 30 percent less than non-Mairners.

While most of us think of cruising as an avocation, something we really like to do, to HAL and every other cruiseline, it is a business.

For me, the best thing HAL can do to keep my loyalty is to continue to provide an excellent product.

There are good deals out there, but I think it is going to be increasingly more difficult to find them as cruising becomes more popular - that old supply and demand again.

We have been spoiled by recent low prices, but deep down most probably knew it wouldn't last forever. It will all depend on the marketplace.

[FlorenceItaly]

doone - Thanks for the clarification...that figure is more in line with what I am seeing on some 10 day South Caribb/Panama Canal itineraries for next fall which I am really, really wanting to book :). Currently, cruising in early Dec has better pricing than Nov.

Marie

[doone]

Marie, keep checking those prices, if its meant to be, you'll find what your looking for, if not, then you know you weren't meant to go at that time.

[FlorenceItaly]

Doone - Actually, I am conceeding, lol, going in late 2005, as I really would like to go in Jan or Feb 2005, especially since I have heard so many wonderful things about the Rotterdam. But, in light of my upcoming cruisings, I am trying to exercise self control, LOL. I KNOW I need to wait until late 2005 or see what the early 2006 schedule looks like.......Thanks for your encouragement :).

Marie

[doone]

Marie, I always sail in March, have gotten some good deals then, so don't give up yet.

I am, too, awaiting the winter schedule for 2006, as that's when my entire family will be cruising, we should have close to 30 people going, its going to be great fun.

[jhannah]

One other possible factor is enormous fuel cost increases. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. A year ago, I could fill up my car for $20-25. Now, even though there has been some easing in gasoline prices, I'm still paying in the $30-35 range every time I fill up. Can you imagine what even a modest increase in the cost of diesel fuel does to a cruise line? Just look at the condition the airlines are in. Bad enough to begin with ... but with the past year's fuel cost increases they've lost billions of dollars. No cruise line can simply absorb those losses and stay in business. I doubt a cruise line would be considered an essential component of commerce deserving of a government bail-out should their financial picture become hopeless. I'm sure they have lost a good bit of their bottom line over the past year. Imagine the mental anguish of trying to forecast their costs 12 or more months ahead and set pricing accordingly. Sure, there is normal inflation ... but the recent fuel increase fiasco is something that was virtually impossible to forecast at this time last year. Maybe once fuel prices stabilize (if they do) then cruise pricing can be reduced to a more palatable level as well.

[lknick]

I'm not sure I understand what HAL is doing with the 2005 schedule pricing...there are few discounts to be had. The current pricing is not that great at all. Should we wait? Will it get better? Worse? Please Help!
Even though costs have gone up, HAL has had their best first half revenue year in their total history, has been sailing at almost full load, and has bookings for the second half that look as if they will have the best year in their history.

Now...exactly what is their incentive to give deep discounts?

[Charliesmom]

If you want steep discounts, you have to go when nobody else wants to go. We booked an S suite for December 12th for 1/3 less money than our honeymoon cruise in a tiny oceanview stateroom on the old, old Sun Princess in 1982.
Those deals are still out there. Check on a few discount web sites.

I also noticed that there were lots of holiday discounts around about a month ago. That surprised me because in the past they have always jacked up the prices for holiday cruises.

If you want to go to Alaska or Canada/New England, take a look at the cruises on the early end - May cruises usually sell for really cheap. That also goes for Europe - look at the extreme ends of the season.

The point is that you really have to be aware of when the prices come down, if only for just a moment. My advice is to get on several discount agencies email lists.

Roberta

[saltydog28]

I understand what you are saying, ekerr. As someone who has cruised alot with the company, I truly do not expect my price to be different than someone booking for the first time. I see your reasoning and respect it but, personally, I don't expect anything special in the way of additional discount over anyone who is trying to make a booking.

What I do like/enjoy/appreciate is the experience we have when aboard the ships. There are times when it is nice to be recognized from a previous cruise; a little extra treat; an enjoyable chat with an officer we cruised with 2 years ago......that sort of thing. In many ways, I value that more than an additional discount that I personally do not think is warranted.

I shop at the same department store often; for many years. I pay the same price as someone who entered the store for the first time that day. I don't get an extra discount from Macy's; why would HAL give me more off my fare?
sail- There are times when Macy's gives Macy chargecard holders an extra 15% when they use their Macy's charge card. Well, that's a promo they use in the Phila./So Jersy area.

[JoeCruisin]

Ditch your TA and book the cruise yourself on-line - just do a little searching on several of the sites that have been posted here before. If you book through HAL directly you'll get hosed no matter what discount they offer you. And full service TA's are making money off of you which only raises the price they charge. Booking though a discounted on-line site will save you thousands per cruise. It's simple and safe and you can compare multiple rates at the same time.

[olderpilot]

Interesting thread. We recently booked b2b 2005 European cruises with our TA who works for an agency that sells lots of HAL cruises. Our fare was substantially less than that shown on HAL's web site and then she told us HAL threw in a 10% discount for booking b2b's. It's like buying a car - you have to shop around.

Example - we wanted to go a SA cruise this winter. HAL's fares were very high. We looked at Celebrity and booked a similar cabin at a much lower fare.

I do feel HAL could spice up their loyalty program a little - I'm sure they feel they don't need to - but I'm not much impressed with pins and medallions. Discounted or free internet time (like Princess) or discounted fares at different cruise levels (like Crystal) would be much more meaningful. Airlines, hotels, restaurants ,etc. have loyalty programs. To keep and entice the younger generation, especially, HAL is going to have to get on board.

Jerry

[DFD1]

Interesting discussion about cruise pricing. What about cruise VALUE ? I believe that at today's prices, (and what I see of the 2005 pricing) cruising is still the very best total value for consumers in the vacation industry. We have all done it both ways....fly someplace, transfer to a resort or hotel, pay the hotel, pay for the food, pay for the entertainment, pay for the tours or rent a car....on and on and on. For me, cruising is still the best value....if you like ships and water....and it's so simple. DFD1

[jazzsea]

I try not to take exception to the remark about "ditching" your TA.

There aren't many prices that I can't match and I have 25 years of cruising experience. My suggestion is that you very nicely tell your TA that you found a better price elsewhere. Respect the fact that he or she has to make a living, too. And understand that it is in his or her best interest to give you great pricing and excellent service. If we didn't care about your needs and your wants we wouldn't still be in this business.

[peaches from georgia]

..... My suggestion is that you very nicely tell your TA that you found a better price elsewhere. Respect the fact that he or she has to make a living, too. And understand that it is in his or her best interest to give you great pricing and excellent service....

I think whether you select an online TA for a cheaper price or decide to maintain your relationship with a brick and mortar TA really comes down to how much service makes you comfortable. I agree w/ jazzsea because that is what works for me.

Is our TA able to give us the lowest price every time? No. But we do exactly what jazzsea suggests and it works for us. Just this week I emailed our TA a range of online prices for a cruise we wanted to book. His rock bottom price was somewhere in the middle. We booked with him. Paid a little more, but I know he is there for us, I know our docs will be in perfect order and we will receive them in a timely manner, I know he has never disappointed us yet with any arrangements we might want, and I know he or someone in his office will be available by phone 24/7 in case of an emergency while we are traveling- and that has happened. So it is worth the little extra money it costs to know he is there for us when we need him. :)

[jhannah]

Is our TA able to give us the lowest price every time? No ... Paid a little more, but I know he is there for us, I know our docs will be in perfect order and we will receive them in a timely manner, I know he has never disappointed us yet with any arrangements we might want ... So it is worth the little extra money it costs to know he is there for us when we need him.My sentiments exactly. If I've ever paid more, it hasn't been a substantial amount. I mean, if my TA was $500 PP higher than somewhere else then that would be a different matter. On our upcoming cruise, I submitted a lower price I found online and was initially told there was no way they could see to match it. However, the TA asked for a little time to see what she could do. Well, long story short, she came back with a price that was significantly lower than the low price I had found online. How did she do it? I don't know. But I care very much that she went to bat for me. And it makes sense. She has benefitted multiple times from commissions earned on our bookings, and has reasonable expectations that we'll be back to see her next time. And we will.

[jazzsea]

I appreciate that some dot com agencies can be open 24/7. Not me. We are a tiny, homebased agency that does significant volume with Holland America and WindStar Cruises.

That's why I mentioned in one of the threads that I needed an "on-line" assistant. Am I allowed to say that? Sorry if I'm not.

I guess my point is that the internet provides us all with the tools to book our cruise (s). And I hope that you will always try to give your TA the booking. The dot com agencies rebate almost all of their commission in order to get your business. Sometimes your TA will rebate as much or more.

This is particularly difficult on travel agents that are independent contractors for big agencies. It is almost impossible for them to match pricing because they share a certain percentage of their commission with their host agency.

Rebating is here to stay and it makes for great prices for those cruisers that are computer literate. I'm all in favor of saving money. Saving money means being able to cruise more often and that is the goal, right?