Didn't Know that HAL was owned by Carnival Corp

[Navy_Chief]

Here's something I didnt know:

Carnival Corporation & plc is a global cruise company with a portfolio of 12 distinct brands comprised of the leading cruise operators in both North America, Europe and Austrailia. Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, Seabourn Cruise Line, Windstar Cruises, AIDA Costa Cruises, Cunard Line, P&O Cruises, Ocean Village, Swan Hellenic, and P&O Cruises Australia are all included in this group.
Interesting........

[Esme]

Now you know something that's very old. Carnival has owned HAL since 1988. :)

[Navy_Chief]

Yep I guess so......seeing I'm fairly new to cruising, it just goes to show "You learn something new everyday":D

[Roz]

If you cruise on any of the lines in the Carnival "family", mention to your TA that you've previously cruise with one of the "relatives", and you'll receive the previous cruiser discount.

If you get HAL's Mariner Magazine, you'll notice advertising by the other Carnival-owned cruise lines.

Roz

[Tatka]

Now you know something that's very old. Carnival has owned HAL since 1988. :)
1988? (are you sure it wasn't 1998?) Why then people are talking about changes on HAL since Carnival've bought it??? 16 years is seems like a long time to me to still discuss it. ;)

[tomc]

I think they bought the Navy, too. :)

And, yes, I think it was 1988.

[Mary Ellen]

Tatka - If TomC isn't right on, he is in the ballpark. I know it was well before our Jan 1994 cruise.

[mhshapiro]

If I'm not mistaken Carnival also owns Celebrity.

[tomc]

'88 or '89. My mother was on the old Rotterdam when they made the announcement.

Carnival doesn't own Celebrity, but someone told me there is some ownership between Celebrity and another line.

[lknick]

Celebrity is owned by RCCL.

[Esme]

1988? (are you sure it wasn't 1998?) Why then people are talking about changes on HAL since Carnival've bought it??? 16 years is seems like a long time to me to still discuss it. ;)

Yes, I am very sure, as I was on the old Westerdam when it was announced. We were on November 17, November 1988.

Thanks Tom for backing me up.

[RevNeal]

Why then people are talking about changes on HAL since Carnival've bought it???

That's an interesting, and excellent, question. People have been whining about the "Carnivalization" of HAL for 15 or so years. During most of this period it has been hype.

It point of fact, when Carnival bought Holland America (announced in Nov. 1988 and finalized on Jan. 17, 1989) the HAL fleet consisted of just 4 ships: The Nieuw Amsterdam and the Noordam, both of which were brand new, the classic old Rotterdam V, and the then-newly purchased Westerdam II. Today, HAL has 13 ships, all but one of which has been acquired since the purchase by Carnival. Indeed, the very popular (among the "traditionalists" and HAL "apologists") S and R-class ships were all bought, built, and put into operation with HAL due to the capital provided by the Carnival Corporation. In short, and in my opinion, the HAL that most of us appreciate is here and operational, today, because of the purchase by Carnival.

Most of the changes which people whine about (myself included) are changes that have very little to do with the purchase by Carnival and far more to do with the economic downturn of the last 3 and a half years -- which hit at the same time as the security and financial impact of 911 -- combined with the pressures and growing pains of a Cruise Line expanding operations faster than their staffing resources could match. I find it very interesting that, at the end of this year, HAL will retract to 12 ships as the old Noordam leaves the fleet, and there will be a period of a year ("breathing room") before the Vista-class Noordam joins the fleet. After a period of unprecedented expansion (with the largest ships HAL has ever sailed being added to the fleet at the rate of about one per year), HAL is finally going to have some time to consolidate their staffing needs and grow their employee-base more reasonably to meet them. I pray this will result in a steady improvement in the levels and quality of service back to what we all remember from just 3 years ago. Not that, in my experience, the quality of service has been horrible -- I believe that some exceedingly bad anecdotal experiences (especially on the Vista-class ships) have been used to typify the service-quality throughout the entire Line -- however there has been a noticeable decline in the quality of the service across-the-board.

[lknick]

Why then people are talking about changes on HAL since Carnival've bought it??? 16 years is seems like a long time to me to still discuss it.)Carnival Corporation has not involved itself in the operation of the various cruiseline except to require an acceptable return on investment.

As in any corporation, senior subsidiary management has spent time at headquarters and has been trained to think in the corporation’s philosophy of operation.

Of late, the cruise market has changed and the subsidiaries have changed to embrace these changes. Some simply don’t like these changes, and have to blame someone other than their favorite cruiseline.

However, expect to see more cost control through back-office standardization.

[localady]

Iknick-

Nice picture, it's always great to put a name with a face;)

The fact HAL is owned by Carnival makes me feel more secure when putting down deposits for cruises a year or so away. Somehow I don't see financial default being an issue with any of the Carnival Corp. lines. If changes have been made, it is probably due to the newer blood at the top of the HAL Corporation, as well as the costs of being competitive in the market.:cool:

[Luvinlife1018]

I think they bought the Navy, too. :)

And, yes, I think it was 1988.

Carnival definetly bought HAL in 1988. Mickey Aaronsons dad made an offer at the inagural sailing of the old Westerdam.

[lknick]

Carnival definetly bought HAL in 1988. Mickey Aaronsons dad made an offer at the inagural sailing of the old Westerdam.Such irony.

The old Westerdam had been bought from Holmes Lines on their going bankrupt. The cost of lengthening the Westerdam was one of the reasons HAL found itself in cash flow problems allowing the takeover by Carnival.

And the offer of purchase was made on the inaugual sailing. Sounds like Monty Python.

[Tatka]

Thank you for detailed responses to my question. I wasn't questioning your knowledge about HAL (as you are the experts and I am new here ), I was just really surprised to learn it after reading so many discussions about sudden changes.

(By the way I am reading the same discussions about service on Celebrity going downhill after RCCL bought it. ;) I don't know , I found food/service on Century simply outstanding and much better than on RCI)

[sail7seas]

All under the Carnival Umbrella.......The Carnival Family of ships includes Seabourn, Windstar, Cunard, Costa, Princess, HAL and Carnival.

All have (thus far) been run independently from the others. There does seem to be more influence one upon the other lately .......buying from suppliers certainly benefits from huge orders.

[jhannah]

Excellent post, RevNeal. I wholeheartedly agree. I, too, am trusting that this interin period sans Noordam will allow things to "catch up".

[localady]

RevNeal-

I also agree that this has been a time of growing pains. I was THRILLED to discover the wonder level of professionalism on our recent Ryndam B2B. After reading these boards I was prepared for the horror stories I'd read. Instead we found the Ryndam to be wonderful, the staff even more wonderful. Yes the second week our dinner service was slow at a table for 8, but that was due to the staffing of the dining room.
Despite that, I found little things that HAL is still improving on! For instance, a pet peeve of mine is getting your room service breakfast luke warm instead of hot, this year the breakfasts arrived piping hot, due to that addition of plate warmers being placed under the entrees, keeping it all nice and hot! Additionally we had the most wonderful room service attendant, by the 2nd day he knew our names and our preferences! What wonderful touches to a lovely vacation!:cool:

[sail7seas]

Despite that, I found little things that HAL is still improving on! For instance, a pet peeve of mine is getting your room service breakfast luke warm instead of hot, this year the breakfasts arrived piping hot, due to that addition of plate warmers being placed under the entrees, keeping it all nice and hot! Additionally we had the most wonderful room service attendant, by the 2nd day he knew our names and our preferences! What wonderful touches to a lovely vacation!:cool:


I agree that Room Service has improved alot in recent months/the last year. We have noted them using the warmers. The first time we saw that was on Zuiderdam and have since seen it on Rotterdam and Maasdam. It makes a big difference.

[localady]

Yes S7S, it's wonderful to see that someone is thinking of these things!! Overall, I would say the level of service generally went "up" this last cruise on the Ryndam.:) Although we had some slow dinners, they were no slower than I have had at other big tables on many cruiselines....

Can't wait to get on my next "Dam" Ship..........:cool:

[CDRMark]

Star Cruises (Asia's largest) owns NCL. Together they have as many ships as either Carnival or RCI. Not a monopoly anywhere but only 3 major players.
Mark

[Navy_Chief]

Wow! when I originaly started this string I didn't think it would bring this much history of the lines out. I find it interesting and I thank everyone who has posted thus far. :)

[tomc]

Actually, the entire planetary system consists of nine ships controlled by the Sun Line. It is part of 100 billion ships operated by the Galaxy Line. Some day, I hope to meet the CEO.

[CDRMark]

Not too soon, one hopes.

Mark

[jhannah]

Oh, you will, Tom. You will!