tipping in Odyssey/Pinnacle Grill?

[npeters]

Is the extra charge the tip for the specialty restaurant or are we supposed to tip extra? On Celebrity, the extra charge was the gratuity.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

The $20 (or $10 for first night) per person charge is NOT the gratuity on HAL. The Pinnacle Grill waitstaff do get a bit of the $10 per person automatic tipping that HAL has instituted. THat money goes to HAL.

We still tip our waiter/waitress and wine steward extra.

:)

[npeters]

Great, thanks for the info, glad I asked! The tipping situations get confusing. Since there's no "bill" to calculate 15%.....what would be an appropriate amount (assuming generally good service - I will adjust up or down as warrants)?

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

We tip according to what we fill a meal like that would cost at home as well as how good the service was. Generally speaking, we tip usually 20% at home.

If you order any cocktails or wine, you will get a separate bill and the 15% gratuity will be added onto it. We still gave our wine steward a little extra.

:)

[ger_77]

I know people don't normally talk about money, but I believe the question you are asking is "how much should I leave?" Well, we usually leave a $20 on the table and give an additional $5 or so to the wine steward. Does that help you? Enjoy the Pinnacle and please have the Chocolate Volcano Cake for me!

Smooth Sailing :) :) :)

[npeters]

ger_77, yes thanks for your advice on the $20.00. As I said before in my post, there isn't a "bill" to calculate out a tip at the Pinnacle. My sister was a waitress in college so I tend to tip 20%+ but I wrote 15% in my post as that % is the "norm." Ymmmmm....chocolate!

[SANDY BEACH]

We also chose to leave $20 for a tip for the two of us. We did not tip the wine steward since his gratuity was added on already.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

HMMM! So if you purchase a $25 bottle of wine in the Pinnacle Grill (CHEAP wine), you pay a 15% gratuity which works out to be $3.75 of which he gets only maybe about $3.

Is this enough for the wine steward?

:)

[dakrewser]

HMMM! So if you purchase a $25 bottle of wine in the Pinnacle Grill (CHEAP wine), you pay a 15% gratuity which works out to be $3.75 of which he gets only maybe about $3. Is this enough for the wine steward?

:)
Well, what did he/she do? If the wine steward recomended a particularly good wine to match your food, then a little more would be justified. If, on the other hand, the steward merely retrieved the bottle you selected and opened it, then, no I don't think additional (ot even that 15%!) is warranted.

[npeters]

Well, what did he/she do? If the wine steward recomended a particularly good wine to match your food, then a little more would be justified. If, on the other hand, the steward merely retrieved the bottle you selected and opened it, then, no I don't think additional (ot even that 15%!) is warranted.

I agree, that's what the automatic gratuity is for (highly doubtful that he/she would have suggested the "$cheap" wine. More than likely, all he/she did was retrieve and pour). If the steward went above and beyond, then extra would be warranted.

[Little Feet]

When you tip in the Pinnacle (waitstaff ) do they have to hold the tip to see if your "automatic" gratuities are kept on account or taken off? What about the wine steward....if he is tipped above the 15%, does he or she also have to wait to see if they can keep it or pool it?

[Little Feet]

Still hoping someone can answer this question about tipping extra and the "automatic" tipping thing for the Pinnacle and wine stewards.

[sail7seas]

Still hoping someone can answer this question about tipping extra and the "automatic" tipping thing for the Pinnacle and wine stewards.

I believe the question was answered. The $20 pp charge for Pinnacle is NOT a gratuity. It is a charge for food. It is a charge in addition to the amount already "included" had you dined in the dining room or Lido.

Most here have indicated in this thread and in many others that when they dine in Pinnacle, they tip the stewards....assuming they are reasonably satisfied with the service.

As to whether they share in the automatic tipping? Who knows? If they do, the tiny amount that would filter to them is so miniscule after the dining room stewards, cabin stewards etc get their's....how much of $10 pp per day is left to filter all the way down to how many others. Same as you know you tip when you go to dinner at home, you know you should tip when you go to dinner in Pinnacle. If you do not wish additional charges......you can certainly enjoy a fine dinner every evening in the dining room and you would avoid the necessity of additional tipping if that is how you wish it. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT IMO...so please do not get all in a huff. If you consider the automatic tip to be sufficient, there are arguments that can be made why you have a valid stance. BUT, do not ask for the extras that would appropriately call for extra tipping. IMO


The question was NOT (as I understand the original poster) do you tip the wine steward and if so how much?

[stillfrantic]

I think you're asking, LittleFeet, does the waiter get to keep the $20 bill left on the table as a tip, or if it has to be held to see if the passenger leaves the auto tip in place before he can pocket the cash?

My guess is he pockets the $20. DISCLAIMER: This is just my guess. Have not done this yet on HAL. The rule seems to be there to keep the regular staff from soliciting for private tips instead of the passenger using the auto policy, or some such wording on the letter. The alternative dining staff, while possibly benefitting from the trickle down effect, surely couldn't be expected to rely on that.

[jazzsea]

Just so that you know...... Usually the waiters in the Pinnacle Grill work in teams of two. Any gratuity you leave for the waiter will be divided between the two team members. Any gratuity (bribe) that you give to the Maitre 'D will go right in his pocket and stay there.

We leave $20 for the waiter and at least $5.00 for the wine steward. We give the wine steward his $5.00 up front, when he brings the wine. The implication is that he/she will get another $5.00 at the end of the meal if he keeps our glasses full.

DH and I love the Pinnacle Grill and usually prebook three of four nights there. Always the first night as it is only $10 per person if booked in advance.

[sail7seas]

Yes.....what Jazzsea said. I agree. (not necessarily as to amount....we tend to tip a little higher)

[Roboat]

I wonder if those who tend to be very generous with tips are the ones who respond here. I bet there are plenty of diners at the Pinnacle who do not leave tips. Not me of course.:)

[sail7seas]

I cannot control what anyone else says or does. I can only be responsible and answerable for myself.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

We have watched a lot of people sign their bill(s) in the Pinnacle Grill and walk out without leaving anyone a tip.

:)

[dakrewser]

We have watched a lot of people sign their bill(s) in the Pinnacle Grill and walk out without leaving anyone a tip.
So? That's what HAL (in effect) tells them to do. The $10 pppd is a gratuity which can be adjusted up or down. That's what HAL tells cruisers. People who follow that "suggestion" aren't trying to stiff anyone, simply doing what they suppose is correct!

[sail7seas]

IMO, dakrewser.......


All that has happened is that HAL has now given them an easier way to do what they always have done anyway. Before HAL started adding the autmatically billed tips, those who refuse to tip left without tipping then. Now they simply have a handy-dandy easy to whip it out when needed explanation. Stiffing the wait staff is "stiffing the wait staff" IMO under any under name.



JMHO....as I said, I am only responsible and answerable for my own behavior.

[dakrewser]

Stiffing the wait staff is "stiffing the wait staff" IMO under any under name.
I don't believe in tipping someone for doing their job just as I don't believe in praising someone for doing their job. Praise, and tips, should be reserved for those who exceed the requirements else it debases the value. I don't agree with the new "service charge" policy, because it rewards the bad, the mediocre and the good equally. Merit should have some reward. But, sadly, I do recognize that many people simply chose not to reward anyone for meritorious service which lead to the policy.

Ah well, as you said, I am only responsible and answerable for my own behavior. (and that of my dependents, of course)

[Orcrone]

I don't believe in tipping someone for doing their job just as I don't believe in praising someone for doing their job. Praise, and tips, should be reserved for those who exceed the requirements else it debases the value. I don't agree with the new "service charge" policy, because it rewards the bad, the mediocre and the good equally. Merit should have some reward. But, sadly, I do recognize that many people simply chose not to reward anyone for meritorious service which lead to the policy.

Ah well, as you said, I am only responsible and answerable for my own behavior. (and that of my dependents, of course)dadrewser, I asked you this in another thread, but you must not have seen the post. If we apply your reasoning beyond the Pinnacle Grill, do you not tip when you go to a restaurant if the server just does their job?

That sounds like something a Goodwill shopping, Carnival cruiser might do.

[dakrewser]

dadrewser, I asked you this in another thread, but you must not have seen the post. If we apply your reasoning beyond the Pinnacle Grill, do you not tip when you go to a restaurant if the server just does their job?

That sounds like something a Goodwill shopping, Carnival cruiser might do.
If the restaurant adds a "service charge" to the bill, then no, I don't.

[Orcrone]

Dakrewser,

I understand what you're saying. Unfortunatly I don't think anyone knows for sure where the unknown portion of the $10.00 per day goes. I guess I just don't think that the Pinnacle servers are getting a fair share. But like I said, no one knows. JMHO

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

I don't see how the Pinnacle Grill waitstaff gets a fair share. The dining room waitstaff (your waiter and his assistant) split $3 (from what I have been told), your room steward gets $3, and that leaves $4 to be split among the "behind the scenes" crew. So how many people are splitting that $4 who work behind the scenes? I don't have any numbers but there are a lot of people who work in the kitchen, the laundry room, polish the brass, the engine room people, deck hands, etc. So they can't be getting very much.

:)

[trubey]

Has anyone here done the arithmetic on exactly how much money the automatic gratuity policy amounts to, to be shared by the staff of a cruise?

I'm on the Prinsendam, which should have about 750 passengers, for 13 days.
At $130 p/p for the trip, that's $97,500.

Considering HAL's purported staff reductions, there should be about 400 staff sharing this pool. That's an AVERAGE of $243.75 per staff member on this cruise, or $18.75 per day.

Lane

[dakrewser]

Has anyone here done the arithmetic on exactly how much money the automatic gratuity policy amounts to, to be shared by the staff of a cruise?

Ooh, good work! But remember, the "boat crew" (as opposed to the hotel staff) don't share in the tips....

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

The way it was explained to us, the "boat" crew would also get something from this pool. They are considered part of the "behind the scenes" crew.

Wish HAL would put into writing exactly who all gets what. This is getting frustrating.

:(

[Orcrone]

Since I don't know how well the Pinnacle servers are compensated, I would just tip them as if they were not sharing in the $10 pp fee. I'd rather leave $20 - $30 more than I have to than to stiff people not getting much. Factored into the total cost of the cruise I'm not going to notice it, and I'd rather not worry that I stiffed someone making very little money.:)

Of course it's academic for me. I probably won't be eating there.

[superstein61]

IMO, dakrewser.......


All that has happened is that HAL has now given them an easier way to do what they always have done anyway. Before HAL started adding the autmatically billed tips, those who refuse to tip left without tipping then. Now they simply have a handy-dandy easy to whip it out when needed explanation. Stiffing the wait staff is "stiffing the wait staff" IMO under any under name.



JMHO....as I said, I am only responsible and answerable for my own behavior.
SOrry - I disagree - In HAL's own literature - and it is reiterated by the cruise director on board in his debarkation talk - the $10/day covers everyone - It INCLUDES the Pinnacle Grill waitstaff. And the $10/day is supposed to cover people who do an excellent job and it is (HAL's words) intended to provide the rewards they deserve. So these folks are not IMO being stiffed. They share in the shared tipping pool just like everyone else - and HAL has determined $10 / day will cover all employees on the ship in a rewarding fashion.

Further proof of this is you CAN NOT add a tip to the bill from the Pinnacle Grill and have it charged to your account. If you want to leave something above and beyond what they get from the pool, you must do so in cash (I discussed this directly with my server)

Now whether someone wants to tip them additionally is solely up to them.

[superstein61]

Dakrewser,

I understand what you're saying. Unfortunatly I don't think anyone knows for sure where the unknown portion of the $10.00 per day goes. I guess I just don't think that the Pinnacle servers are getting a fair share. But like I said, no one knows. JMHO
Orcrone - I beg to differ - The Pinnacle grill staff gets their fair share from the tipping pool just like everyone else. I have both heard and read that from official HAl sources. So i would not say no one knows - they do.

But if one chooses to tip more, thay are always welcome to do so

[Little Feet]

Wow! I think I must not have worded my post correctly. It seems that Sail7Seas must think I am a deadbeat! Not so! I worked my way through school waiting tables.....if anything I way overtip. I know how some folks tip nothing and how hard the work can be. My querry was.....when we tip the Pinnacle people...do they get to keep it..... or do they have to wait to see if we retain the $10.00/day (we will) automatic tip on our account? And of course, this is on top of the $20.00/pp charge, which is for food. Just thought the info would be helpful.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:) Little Feet

The Pinnacle Grill waitstaff won't know until the last couple of days of the cruise whether you have opted to remove the automatic tips or not. So some passengers who go there at the beginning of the cruise and not tip may not realize that once they have removed the automatic tipping, the Pinnacle Grill waitstaff will not get a fair share from the pool nor will they be able to keep the extra tip that was given to them.

Which brings up another question - since the Pinnacle Grill waitstaff won't know until near the end of the cruise who has opted out of the automatic tipping - do they have to turn in those tips right away and then claim them later??

:)

[Krazy Kruizers]

:) trubey

I am still trying to figure out how you think that each crew member will get $18.75 per day in tips.

Did you subtract the $3 per day for the room stewrad? Did you subtract $3 per day for the dining room staff? HAL has said that those figures are set in concrete.

So now we are down to $4 a day to bedivided by the rest of the crew. From your total crew staff did you subtract the number of cabin stewards and dining room waitstaff?

Of course you didn't!

So now the numbers are different. Now there may be 400 kitchen workers, laundry personnel, brass cleaners, 2 yum-yum men, boat crew (tender workers included), Pinnacle Grill waitstaff, engineers, pool crew, etc., that have to split $4 per person per day. So $4 per day times 750 passengers (Prinsendam) equals $3000 per day divided by 400 workers equals $7.50 per day. To me it looks like you need to be a "behind the scenes" worker as they seem to get more in tips.

Something seems to be wrong with this picture???

:(

[sail7seas]

Little Feet....No, I do not think you are a deadbeat. :) I think you asked a reasonable question.


KK made an interesting observation and that is that perhaps the Pinnacle Stewards have to "report" what tips they receive throughout the cruise until such time as it is determined which pax remove the automatic tips from their account.

I still feel that most people will wish to tip the stewards in Pinnacle....even with HAL's new automatic tipping.

Your choice. Do as you wish.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

sail7seas - hoping you folks and we won't be the only ones tipping in the Pinnacle Grill. Don't like the way some people are chosing to opt out of tipping in general.

;)

[sail7seas]

I know what you mean, KK.


It seems to me that while HAL intended to clarify and take away people's excuses for not tipping, they really have confused the issue more than it was in the past. IMO

The bottom line is that "in the real world" on land, we seem to instinctively know when to tip and who to tip.

I think most of us bring our same instincts across the gangways when we board and we know the proper thing to do. IF one wants to find a "way out" of doing what instinctively they know they should do....they will always find the rationale that works best for them.

Maybe they know better than I know? I am not calling them wrong. It just does not "feel right" for me.

[trubey]

[QUOTE=Krazy Kruizers]:) trubey

I am still trying to figure out how you think that each crew member will get $18.75 per day in tips.

I got there by dividing the total gratuity pool by the total number of employees on the boat. That gives you an AVERAGE amount per crew member per day -- for sure some get more and some get less.

I have no idea how they actually divide the pool -- maybe a formula involving rank, job description, seniority, and so forth?

I think that might be a secret, like salaries are.:rolleyes:

All the best,
Lane

[sail7seas]

Do any of us really think it is our business to know what crew persons earn?


Do we think it their business to know our salaries?

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

I really wasn't trying to determine what they earn - tips or regular salary.

I was just wondering how trubey got her numbers.

:)

[sail7seas]

I know that, KK. :)


I guess I'm just sensitive IN GENERAL, not specifically here, for people to inquire what others earn. We want our privacy (or at least I do) and I try to give others the same respect for their privacy.

My comment was not directed at any particular person here.

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

We also like our privacy.

There has been so many people trying to figure out how much the crew is getting with this new tipping policy that I just wanted to know how they (like trubey) figured out the tips. Everyone seems to have a different formula.

:)

[Little Feet]

It was much easier for us when HAL did not add an "automatic tip" and all our HAL cruises were before this policy. Our next cruise (December) will be with the policy in place. We used to always tip as we were served.....we did not ever wait till the end of the cruise except for the waiters in the dining room and the cabin steward. All other servers and crew that assisted us, entertainers, etc. got a tip at the moment we utilized them. Our service was always the best....no complaints at all. It works for those that show their gratitude! I am presuming that this automatic tipping policy has been added because people did not tip at all (boo, hiss!). Now it is a confusing quandary....can they keep the tips, do they have to pool the tips, etc. I just want the server to get 20%, not the 15% that will be on the tab for cocktails, so do I add cash to the bill, or write in a higher amount, or what??? And....can I assume that the server I have tipped the extra cash to may keep the tip? I will leave the automatic tipping in place on my statement...but I bet there will be many that do not.

[digby]

We were on the Westerdam's second cruise in May. We ate in the Pinnacle twice and left no tip either time BECAUSE we were told that all extra tips must be turned in and are pooled with the entire staff. Believe me, we are very good tippers, paid for an "S" Class suite, and the money would have been gladly given if appropriate. We also saw no one else tipping.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Digby

Who told you that any tip you left in the Pinnacle would have to be pooled?

Someone in the Pinnacle?

Just curious.

[sail7seas]

Just because you did not SEE anyone else tipping, you cannot know that was the case.


My husband tips the stewards in Pinnacle but I doubt you would have seen it. There is no need for anything more than subtly.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Agree with sail7seas - no would know whether or not we tipped in the Pinnacel Grill - husband has a good hand shake.

:)

[clopaw]

The tipping situation may be confusing to those who are used to the setup on other lines. At the Celebrity specialty restaurant, the additional fee is the tip. At least that has been my understanding. Accordingly, I would never have thought about leaving a tip in cash if it were not for this board.

[sail7seas]

I guess the only way to solve the confusion issue is to Ask....

I can understand why someone could think the fee was the tip but I think the best way to settle that is to inquire while aboard.

[Roboat]

If a couple chooses to leave an extra $20 in the Pinnacle, that's fine by me. That meal would run you maybe $100 per person on land, someplaces more, someplaces a little less. (We'll not count wine for this meal.) So you're only tipping 20% for your dinner - that's counting the $20 on the table ($10/each) and the $10/pp/pd on your account. Oh wait: then there's the $20/pp extra you paid to eat at the Pinnacle. So now, for the $100 meal, you tipped $40. OK, so all of the $10/pp/pd shouldn't be counted toward dinner, so take half of it back.

So you tipped $35 on your $100 meal. Plus you paid for the servers' room and board!! :D

Alright, so this takes a liberty or two, and math is always fun, but there's some truth in it. Do you guys normally tip 35% plus room and board? ;)

[superstein61]

The tipping situation may be confusing to those who are used to the setup on other lines. At the Celebrity specialty restaurant, the additional fee is the tip. At least that has been my understanding. Accordingly, I would never have thought about leaving a tip in cash if it were not for this board.
I do not believe their is confusion - except on this board. HAL now makes it perfectly clear the $10/pp/per day charge is to reward ALL personal for exceptional performance. On my recent cruise, the crusie director was reading several questions and answers - obviously from the home office - regarding this. One was about the breakdown of tips and who exactly the behind the scenes people that are covered. He clearly stated that the Pinnacle Grill waitsatff ARE INCLUDED in the tipping pool.

So save yourself the hassle - HAL has determined, rightly or wrongly, the $10/pp/per day is just reward for ALL its staff for exceptional performance. Just keep the auttip, don't worry about feeling compelled to do something extra (unless of course you so desire) - and HAL will divy out the appropriate amounts to the Pinnacle staff among others.

[gizmo]

Superstein,

It has been reported on this board before that Hal said the Pinnacle was included in the 10.00 and again by Digby on this thread.
Glad to hear that the CD on your cruise verified this and it is still the case. Thanks for sharing the info.