Children: unseen & unheard?

[dakrewser]

One of the things my wife and I liked about the late (and lamented, at least by us) Renaissance Lines was their policy of no children and no smoking. All passengers had to be 16 or older. What do you think?

[lknick]

Your poll assumes rotten parents.

[Orcrone]

Ilknick - good point.

Dakrewser, there are some adult only cruises. I believe Celebrity has a few. As much as no one wants to be sitting next to misbehaving children, the cruise lines would lose too much revenue banning children, especially during the summer and other school breaks.

[doone]

To be honest, on any of the HAL ships I have sailed, I have never had a problem with children not behaving. I have sailed February school vacation week and no problem, and believe me, if there was something to complain about with kids not behaving, I would be the first. Never a problem here, so I don't mind, so far. As far as smoking goes, well, I am a smoker, a polite one at that and only smoke in deisgnated areas.

[cruisinjudy]

I have yet to see a problem with children on cruise lines. As a teacher we only took cruises during school vacations before retiring and we never had a problem. However, I have seen children in land based restaurants and other venues where the parents should have taken more control of the children.

[iluvcruzin]

I couldn't select any of the choices. I for one am looking forward to sailing on the Maasdam where the child/adult ratio is small. Do I think they shouldn't sail? No.. There is a cruise for every person's likes. I just don't care to cruise during spring break on Carnival or RCCL anymore as my youngest are 20. Been there - done that.

[elmorejj]

I didn`t vote either. On all of the HAL cruises I have taken, I can honestly say that I haven`t been bothered by children, even on the holiday sailings......jean :cool:

[karensj]

As a mother of three children ages 10, 14, & 15 I really didn't know how to answer so I didn't. Our first cruise with the kids was five years ago on Celebrity Cruise Lines. There was around 40 kids on board the ship. My kids loved it and were very well behaved. (No I'm not a mother who thinks her kids are perfect). I think if you use the different programs that are offered you can both be happy. Two years ago we did a Carnival Cruise with them and there must have been 1000 kids on board. It was a totally different experience. I enjoyed the first cruise the most. I love having my kids cruise with me but I can understand the doubts of others. We are planning another cruise this time on HAL with my parents during February vacation. I would assume that there will be other familes on board. I have only cruised during school vacations with my kids so I can't comment on what it is like during off times.

Karen

[saltydog28]

dakrewser-This is a tough one for me..........If I were on holiday with only my husband, I wouldn't want to be around other people's children, BUT, it would not ruin my cruise if there were children onboard...........On the other hand......when our children were younger they went everywhere with me. -camping-daytrips-to the mall-as my son would say-'we travel in a pack'- I never had a problem with getting in the car and going. The only babysitters my children ever had were named Nana-Pop-Aunt-Uncle. Our children are what made us a family. And I can count on two fingers the number of times they carried on in public.
So what I'm saying is, if my children aren't allowed in, you won't be seeing me or my husband either.
Take care,
Pat.............."pack-up the babies and grab the old ladies, cause everyone knows, everyone goes.....

[dakrewser]

As far as smoking goes, well, I am a smoker, a polite one at that and only smoke in deisgnated areas.
When we sailed on the "R" ships I was also a smoker. These were totally no smoking ships (and it was enforced! I vividly remember the purser threatening to leave behind someone caught smoking in a restroom!). THere was always a table, some chairs and ashtrays set up on the dock, though. "At sea" days, however, could cause some crabby behavior ;)

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

We try to avoid cruises when we know there will be a lot of children, i.e., spring break, holidays.

Guess we are showing our age.

:o

[ASM]

None of the above.

[geoherb]

We avoid holiday cruises after way too many children on a Princess cruise over Thanksgiving. The weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas are great though.

On our cruise to New England and Canada, there were very few children. We were able to use the pool in peace and quiet.

I wouldn't want to go on a cruise with an infant. I think it's better to wait until the child is old enough to remember the trip.

We've met some very well-mannered children on cruises. We've also seen some atrocious behavior of unsupervised ones. Of course the parents should be paying attention. But when they don't, I think the cruise line should stop the unruly behavior and take the children to their parents.

[stillfrantic]

None of the above for me either. I would never put an age limit on a general/public sailing. Saying no one under 16 is, to me, like saying no one over 70.....both are illogical. No, I don't want a screaming baby next door, but neither do I want an old snorer with sleep apnea. Wanting the room quiet has nothing to do with age.


I say everyone should be invited to the party, and all should be on their best party manners.:)

[Roz]

None of the categories fit my experience with children on cruise ships. I'm childless myself, but I've found the children to be fun and in fact, added to the cruise experience. I like being around people having fun, regardless of their age.

On my last cruise, all of the children were of pre-school age, the youngest being a 4-month old nursing infant. I never heard screaming of any kind, and the children were well-behaved in the dining room.

But now that you mention it, I did hear the nursing infant complain about only getting half a lobster tail on formal night. Should they be banned for that? I don't think so.

Roz

[sail7seas]

I could not respond to the poll, either.

We like to cruise over holidays (including Easter) and are well aware there will be many children. We also enjoy cruising the Caribbean during the summer months. Again...lots of children.

On most of these holiday/summer cruises, we have been unbothered by unruly children. On a few cruises, we were somewhat disturbed by them.
If there were no parents present (or other adult supervision), I had no problem telling the screaming/splashing/running or whatever he/she was doing brat to cool their engines. Didn't disturb me in the least to get in their face and tell them they were invading My Space and they would do well to remember their manners. On EVERY occassion (truthfully, there have only been a few), the child responded appropriately and their behavior became more pleasing. It proved to me without question....the kids want discipline and respond well to it. If Mom or Dad were there, these kids would not have been acting up.

Where in the world were Mom and Dad?

I want to see children on cruises and everywhere else (age appropriate) where people are having good, clean fun. Children cannot be expected to behave when in public if they are never brought out in public and taught.

[localady]

I have children and we have cruised together, though not on HAL. Generally I have met very well behaved children on board with one or 2 exceptions. I did tell a child to stop splashing in the pool as he was hitting some elderly folks next to us and it was obvious that the child had no supervision. I asked where his folks were ( it was nearly noon) and was told they were still sleeping!! Because I was a lifeguard for many years and am a mother, I too had no problem telling the child to knock it off. He looked at me with a "you can't tell me what to do" attitude, but he stopped when he could see I was not taking that for an answer!!! (Yes we parents are great at growling!!):eek:

I couldn't answer the poll either because I don't think kids should be banned from cruises. I do believe that parents should be told that they are to supervise their children, and not let them roam wild! If children are identified being a nuisance the parent should be contacted and requested to kindly supervise their children or both of them can walk the plank!!:rolleyes: :cool:

[ekerr19]

Your poll assumes rotten parents.

Iknick-

I agree! It is not so much the kids, but their parents. :)

[Jett456]

I took a cruise two weeks agon on Carnival without my teens. They didn't want to come this time. I was worried that it would be terrible with screaming kids everywhere. But it was fine. I had the late dinner and stayed by the adults only pool. The security guard actually enforced this rule. There was one parent there that didn't get it and the guard pointed out the sign. I was impressed. I took a celebrity cruise two years ago and they didn't enforce the 'no kids in the hot tub' rule at all. I think adults only cruises are fine for those that really really can't tolerate kids but in general no, kids deserve vacations with their parents. I have some great memories of taking my kids on the cruise.

[Giorgi-one]

We also took our children everywhere with us. Only babysitters were family. However, our first cruise was in 1996 and my youngest was 19 at that time. We obviously got a late start on cruising. I don't have a problem with children on a cruise as long as the parents are responsible. That means if their two year old starts screaming in the dining room, they all leave. That means that they don't take infants with diapers in the hot tubs or pools. That means that they don't let their kids play on the elevators. That means that theydo whatever is requried to make sure their children don't interfere with everyone else's cruise.

[FoxyTerrier]

I love seeing the kids on the ship. I think it is wonderful for them to be exposed to lots of different people and cultures. On the baltic we just ended there were kids of every age - infants to late teens. I wasn't disturbed by any of them exept a few that would not leave the dance floor in the disco when asked by the cruise staff. Their parents were the problem though as it was clearly posted no one under 18 years old and the parents put up a big stink over it - in the end the head security officier had to be called.

Kids yes.
Rotten parents no.

BTW - I saw alot more rude and annoying over 60s - should we ban them too?

[dexter]

My wife and I had a terrible cruise on Carnival Glory last July. I love kids, but this was the "unruly cruise from Hell". We found out later that there were over 900 kids under 13 on that cruise and it was obvious. They were running up and down the hallway at all hours, playing hide-n-go seek during the art auction (behind the artwork), fighting on the Promenade and much more. We will never cruise in the middle of the summer on Carnival again because of that.

[Himself]

Come on gang, each of us were once children and none of us were perfect.
Let us be a little open minded. While I don't think an infant should be on a cruise. I have no problem with little children being on cruises.
Himself

[RevNeal]

I tend to agree with Mr. Granger from the BBC's "Are You Being Served?"

"Children are better seen and not heard ... and preferably not seen."

In particular, boys can be a scourge on the human race. They should be nailed into a barrel at the age of 6 and fed through a bung-hole until they turn 16. At age 16 one should bung up the hole, toss the barrel overboard, and have the captain take the ship to flank-speed.




;)

[Roz]

I personally have found non-mobile infants to be no problem at all. The problem is for the parents that have to care for them.

Roz

[RevNeal]

Come on gang, each of us were once children and none of us were perfect.
Let us be a little open minded. While I don't think an infant should be on a cruise. I have no problem with little children being on cruises.


I agree with Jesus:

"But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children...." (Mark 10:14a KJV)

I agree ... make 'em suffer. ;)

[lipoppop]

I keep count of people who annoy me on my cruises. The count to date:

children - 2
adults - 782

Most HAL cruises have few children especially if it is not vacation time. You have a lot of choices if you do not want to be with many of them.

As for me I'm waiting for my daughter to let us cruise with our grandsons. So far she and her husband have hoarded them on cruises. I am so proud of their behavior I would love to show them off to my travel mates.

[swmichigan cruiser]

We try not to cruise when there will be a lot of kids on board like summer and during spring break especially young teenagers that aren't properly supervised. That being said we have taken our grandson on two cruises and we enjoyed having him on both of the cruises the first one was on the Norwegian Sky when he was about 3 1/2 and this past spring on the Zuiderdam when we was about 4 1/2. This last cruise he was with us the whole time and that was ok because we knew before going about him being to young for Club Hal and frankly we wanted him with us and we tried not to put him in a position to effect our fellow passengers. We never ate in the dining room we either had room service or ate in the Lido. If we went to a show we tried to sit where we could get him out quickly without bothering anyone else if he wanted to leave. Even that turned out pretty good because he called up to be on stage by Barnaby (juggler/comic) and he did a pretty good job. Main thing is everyone should respect the other people there around but that doesn't always happen no matter what the ages are.

[Mary Ellen]

Another non-voter here. There have been children on all of our cruises - never a problem that we've noticed (and since we don't have children, we'd probably notice). Since HAL doesn't attract TONS of kids, as other lines market more to the 'family' cruise, and we usually sail when school is in session, I see no reason to fix what isn't broken.

[MandyGirl]

It would be nice if HAL would offer one or two specific sailings for "over 18". Not change their policy - just offer a couple select sailings of "adult only".

Although I absolutely love teaching the 150+ adolescents I see each and every day of the schoolyear, I do actually like to take a vacation away from students (just like some parents like to send their two kiddos off to the grandparents every so often). The only time I can cruise is obviously when schools are not in session - when most cruises have an increase in the Club HAL population. I had read years ago about Celebrity having sailings such as this during certain times of the year, but have not looked into it recently. Even if the students are well-behaved, it would still be an extra-nice "vacation" (just being on a cruise is an incredible vacation!!!). Regardless, most kids I have seen on cruises have been well-behaved and respectful of other passengers. However, I have seen evidence of vandalism on our Celebrity cruise, kids that didn't understand that lines in the buffet are there for a reason, and so many kids in a hot tub that adults couldn't squeeze in even if they wanted to try! But they are adolescents and sometimes they don't make the best choices we as adults would like for them to. Overall, from my experiences, HAL has definitely had the most well-behaved kids (and adults!).

[Lisa63]

I didn't vote either... mainly because our son was 11 months old on his first cruise and 20 months old on his second. He's now nearly 11 years old and has taken over a dozen cruises with us.

sail7seas is right -- a child will not learn how to behave in public without practical experience. Even at 11 months old, our son was generally quiet in the dining room. We prepared him for a couple of months prior, by taking him to restaurants with us, starting out with diners and working our way "up."

Like any kid, he wasn't perfect. On those rare occasions when he would get cranky, we immediately removed him from the dining room, show lounge (where we sat in the back for a quick exit), etc.

Even now, we rarely use kids clubs as we view cruising as a family vacation and enjoy spending time together as a family. And our son knows what we expect of him and almost always complies. :)

[ryansmemom]

I am also unable to vote given the options of this poll. I agree with the people who feel that the children are being blamed for the poor job their parents are doing. This is unfair to the children. Parent's are responsible for the behavior of their offspring, regardless of the age of said offspring.

Well mannered, respectful people of any age are welcome company in any situation, in my opinion.

Linda

[AnonymousCruiser]

I tend to agree with Mr. Granger from the BBC's "Are You Being Served?"

"Children are better seen and not heard ... and preferably not seen."

In particular, boys can be a scourge on the human race. They should be nailed into a barrel at the age of 6 and fed through a bung-hole until they turn 16. At age 16 one should bung up the hole, toss the barrel overboard, and have the captain take the ship to flank-speed.




;)I hope you are kidding. I don't want to go into it, but this post, and your last post about the suffering of children, left me with a bad vibe...maybe it's the combo of your profession and attitude toward children.

[InterestedBystander]

I hope you (revneal) are kidding. ...this post, and your last post about the suffering of children, left me with a bad vibe...Aw, c'mon -- surely parenthood has not left you so humorless that you can't spot a tongue-in-cheek jibe!

[cactuslady]

I think I will have had my fill of children by the time I arrive on board, after spending two or three long flights to the port with the little one just aft entertaining him/herself by constantly kicking the back of my seat. :eek:

Notice how I am assuming this will happen.

[RevNeal]

I hope you are kidding. I don't want to go into it, but this post, and your last post about the suffering of children, left me with a bad vibe...maybe it's the combo of your profession and attitude toward children.

Dear AnonymousCruiser,

I'm very sorry that I've left you with a bad vibe. That was not my intention. I placed multiple emoticons -- especially the wink ;) -- in my posts relative to children because I am MOST DEFINITELY jesting. I am not being serious.

Please understand this: I would never harm, frighten, abuse, or touch in an inappropriate manner any child, EVER. If ANYONE is aware and ashamed of the horrible things that some clergy have done to children, it's those of us who wear basic black. I am sickened by the abuses, and by those who commit these crimes, and pray for those children who have been harmed.

Nevertheless, there are many clergy who, out of fear of anyone thinking that they would want or think of doing anything evil to a child, will avoid children at all costs. Not only do they take all of the reasonable steps to ensure that there is never even the appearance of anything wrong happening, but they even go so far as to ignore children, shunning them and never having ANYTHING to do with them. While I take care to make sure that each and every boundary is in place (and not just with children, but in my relations with adult women and men, too), I nevertheless do love and care for the children of my parish. I don't feel particularly comfortable around large groups of kids, but for some reason children do seem to like me, trust me, and respond well to me. I sometimes liken it to people, though disliking cats, find themselves adopted by a cat as a pillow. My pretense, on this board, to loathing the little beasts ... eh, er, children ... is just a SHOW for the fun of it. It's NOT serious.

That is ... it's not serious until the Club HAL kids start acting up; then, I'm one of the first to show them the joys of skeet shooting from the rear Sports deck. :D ;) ;) (nudge nudge).

[superstein61]

There were over 400 kids on the 7/31 Zuiderdam sailing - and I never noticed them. No problems whatsoever from the kids. Now a few pushy seniors is a whole another story.

Give me kids over a few pushy seniors who feel entitled to everything anyday. More on this in my upcoming review :)

[ekerr19]

I hope you are kidding. I don't want to go into it, but this post, and your last post about the suffering of children, left me with a bad vibe...maybe it's the combo of your profession and attitude toward children.Oh my gosh.. I think you must have the wrong impression of Revneal. I guess it is a long standing "joke" about the way Revneal reacts to any posts about kids.....

The fact remains - you will not find a more kind hearted, generous or fun-loving person on these boards than Revneal.

If you take the time to go back and read his posts, I think you will see this, I hope you do.

Revneal is truly an asset to these boards - I think he actually loves kids ! He can cruise with ours ANY time! :D

[Nasmas]

I didn't vote either. I've only been on one cruise that children were any problem at all. It was spring break and on the Veendam in 1996. There was a family group with several children all ages that didnt' join any of the other children but set out to make it the cruise from hell for a lot of us. They were disruptive in the dining room and were in the Lido pool throwing silver. I really thought the HAL crew and staff should have done a better job of controlling this unruly bunch. The only ones that weren't bothered were the parents. They just let them go. They ran through the halls squealing (for lack of a better word) and got up on stage before the shows thinking they were entertaining (NOT). It was awful. We didn't cruise for a few years after that because they totally wrecked our cruise. We did finally go back and have never had the problem again. I wrote about it but I don't know if it caught anyone's attention. Even the crew commented about how untamed this bunch was. I didn't hold it against all children because most of the time they are seldom seen & rarely heard. I think the parents should have been taken to the wood shed.

[jazzsea]

I picked "7 or older". By that age they can be involved with "Club Hal" and can enjoy interesting and fun activities aboard ship.

Our grandchildren are 5 and 7. When our granddaughter is 7 we plan to take her and her older brother to Alaska, but not before.

When she is 8 we will take them to Disneyworld. When they are a little older, we will take them to Hawaii where we own a timeshare.

I feel sorry for the babys and the toddlers that are on ships. Their schedule is disrupted and everthing around them is different. No wonder they cry and are crabby.

[Nasmas]

I picked "7 or older". By that age they can be involved with "Club Hal" and can enjoy interesting and fun activities aboard ship.

Our grandchildren are 5 and 7. When our granddaughter is 7 we plan to take her and her older brother to Alaska, but not before.

When she is 8 we will take them to Disneyworld. When they are a little older, we will take them to Hawaii where we own a timeshare.

I feel sorry for the babys and the toddlers that are on ships. Their schedule is disrupted and everthing around them is different. No wonder they cry and are crabby.I agree. I know some parents think they are doing the kids a big justice by taking them to all of these exotic places, but please wait until they're old enought to know what they're seeing. Babies are great but there are some places they dont' fit. I feel so sorry for the poor little things on airplanes when they cry because their baby ears are hurting and everyone on the plane is ready to kill the parent. I know flying with babies is sometimes unavoidable but it seems there could be something done to make them more comfortable.

[RevNeal]

Dear ekerr19, thank you so much for your very kind words; I appreciate them greatly. I sometimes forget that not everyone is aware that I'm a great big cut-up, and that one can't always take what I say seriously -- particularly not when I'm talking about children on cruises.

Revneal is truly an asset to these boards - I think he actually loves kids!

Oh NO ... you've "outed" me!!!! :D
LOL
I do love children, especially when they're someone else's and I can grin at them, play a bit with them, spoil them ... and then hand them BACK to their parents. I've been told that I'd make a great grandparent, :) and that's fine by me ... I just don't want to be a parent. :)

I suppose there are TWO things about children that "bother" me: yelling (squealing) and swarming. Anything more than 4 kids behaving in frenetic fashion constitutes a swarm, and yelling -- or, more accurately, squealing -- is any sound above general talking that contains qualities of ear-drum piercing magnitudes.

[JoeCruisin]

In this day and age I prefer it when a reverand, and any other member of the clergy, refrain from using the words "boy" and "bung-hole" in the same sentence.

[RevNeal]

In this day and age I prefer it when a reverand, and any other member of the clergy, refrain from using the words "boy" and "bung-hole" in the same sentence.

Yikes!
That's was actually a paraphrase from Mark Twain. The "bung-hole" is NOT part of a person's body ... it's the hole in a cask, keg, or barrel through which liquid is poured in or drained out. I never thought about there being a vulgar slang meaning that someone might misconstrue that I had some sexual intention. If someone is going to think that way, or attempt to launch accusations against me for the usage of such a term, then perhaps I should be even more paraphrastic in my citation of that reference from the great Mark Twain.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone.

[bdmarine]

I will refrain from my usual remarks about children aboard ship. I am sure that all the participants on this board have perfectly behaved children and that the children who have annoyed us in the past had good cause to interfere with our vacation.

I selected 16 and above, but would have selected 21 and above if it had been available.

[CrabbyHarper]

I can't vote on that poll either. My last cruise over Easter break on the Maasdam was pretty bad because of the unsupervised kids and feral teen-agers. BUT there were some kids who were absolutely delightful! I'd hate to see an across-the-board ban on kids.

Pity the poor staff who have to cope with trashed cabins, kids frolicking in the passageways at 2:00 am, infants in diapers in the pools and hot tubs, kids who sit in the front rows at the evening entertainment and heckle the performers - all in the absence of parents. There has gotta be a better way to encourage parents not to be such boors and to take their parenting responsibilities more seriously...but I sure don't know what it is!

In the meantime, I'll continue to sail HAL - two cruises booked on the Maasdam - YAY! but I am going to avoid any possible school breaks.

[saltydog28]

revneal-Your comment about bung-hole brought back a funny memory for me. I was at a small dinner party and a man was telling a story about some wine he had made.
He used the term bung-hole. I turned to my husband and asked , is that a dirty word?, my husband looked at the floor, shook his head and said no. The man was mad I interruped his story, and was madder still when I said 'well, what is it?'.
There are alot of words I don't know the meaning of--bung-hole isn't one of them.
Can someone tell me the origin of the word?
Take care,
Pat.

[jhannah]

I feel sorry for the babys and the toddlers that are on ships. Their schedule is disrupted and everthing around them is different. No wonder they cry and are crabby.And this is exactly why taking them on a vacation like a cruise should be postponed until they are better equipped to handle and understand it.

[RevNeal]

I don't know the meaning of--bung-hole isn't one of them.
Can someone tell me the origin of the word?

"Bung" = "A stopper especially for the hole through which a cask, keg, or barrel is filled or emptied."
Origin of the word: Middle English "bunge," from Middle Dutch "bonge," from Late Latin "puncta."

The "hole" is the opening in the barrel through which it is filled or emptied, which one "bungs up" with a plug that one waxes tight.

[dakrewser]

I feel sorry for the babys and the toddlers that are on ships. Their schedule is disrupted and everthing around them is different. No wonder they cry and are crabby.
As do I, which is why I started this. THe only thing worse is to see the infants and toddlers at Disney World/Land who are no more than excuses for their parents to fulfill their own childhood fantasies.

[the2ofus]

I did not vote either. I enjoy well-behaved children and well-behaved adults anywhere, anytime.

People with no manners breed children with no manners and become old folks with no manners. I try to avoid them whenever possible.

[teencruiser18]

As I'm 15, I'm obviously not going to say that you should be 16 or older to cruise. After reading these boards, on my Zuiderdam cruise last week, I specifically looked for screaming babies and I seriously couldn't find any. I don't think there should be age restrictions. My 5 year old brother had a great time on the ship.
Kerry

[ekerr19]

As I'm 15, I'm obviously not going to say that you should be 16 or older to cruise. After reading these boards, on my Zuiderdam cruise last week, I specifically looked for screaming babies and I seriously couldn't find any. I don't think there should be age restrictions. My 5 year old brother had a great time on the ship.
Kerry

Kerry-

Did you have a great time? My kids loved cruising on the Zui last summer. There were tons of teenagers on our cruise and they had a blast. I thought I read a post where you mentioned something about underage drinking in the Northern Lights? Maybe it was another poster...

[AnonymousCruiser]

Yikes!

That's was actually a paraphrase from Mark Twain. The "bung-hole" is NOT part of a person's body ...

I'm sorry if I upset anyone.I hate to admit that I am actually laughing now at this whole thread. Maybe its my generation (GenX) but bung-hole is very much used as a reference to the nether regions. So immature, I know.

No offense taken, by the way, on all of this. I think I am just sensitive because 1.) I am a new mother and 2.) I live in Boston.

I actually figured you were kidding RevNeal but I just got a weird vibe and though I should mention it.

[sail7seas]

AnonymousCruiser....

Glad that you and Rev now understand eachother's comments. One of the risky things about these Boards is not being able to see the smirk on the writer's face, not understanding they are just jesting....


But....help me, please. While I understand your explanation for sensitivity due to being a new mother (Congratulations!!!), what does explanation Number 2....I live in Boston have to do with it? I live in Boston. I wasn't offended. I knew Rev was kidding around.

[lipoppop]

But....help me, please. While I understand your explanation for sensitivity due to being a new mother (Congratulations!!!), what does explanation Number 2....I live in Boston have to do with it? I live in Boston. I wasn't offended. I knew Rev was kidding around.[/QUOTE]

S7S maybe she is sensitive because of the Red Sox. ;) (joke)

[JoeCruisin]

My apologies to RevNeal. I guess I need to lighten up a bit - I didn't realize it was all said in jest.

[Vicar]

REV,

I totally understand the way you feel about having to cover yourself from any sense of wrong doing. It is sad that we have to take those precautions , but unfortunately its neccessary these days.

I noticed that the poster that said you gave her a bad vibe has only posted a few times and may possibly be a new comer. Perhaps the only post she has seen of yours was the "suffer the children" one and I can see where that may have spooked her.

Had she been more familiar with you she would certainly know that it was all in fun and part of your tongue in cheek brand of humor :)

I think I can safely speak for the majority of posters here that we all enjoy your wit and wisdom :) and are very grateful of all the advice and insights you have given us through your travel experiences .


PS Thank God she didn't see the Blender thread *LOL*

[RevNeal]

My apologies to RevNeal. I guess I need to lighten up a bit - I didn't realize it was all said in jest.

JoeCruisin, it's quite alright. We sometimes forget that the nature of this medium of communications doesn't always convey our means as well as it should. Those who know me know that I don't mean what I say about children, but not everyone knows me. :) Also, upon reflection it is clear to me that, due to the change in the meaning of various terms, the phrase I lifted from the writings of Mark Twain (and have often repeated in forums like this one) COULD be easily misunderstood. Given the nature of child abuse cases and charges leveled against clergy of several denominations, the burden is upon me to make sure that such terms and wordings are not misunderstood.

In other words, thank you for expressing your thought on the issue. If/when I use the quip again in the future I'll have to figure out a way to further paraphrase it so as to remove from it the colloquial misunderstanding.

[RevNeal]

Dear Vicar, thank you so much for your very kind words. I appreciate them greatly. And, you're right, the misunderstanding was largely due to others not being familiar with my sometimes mischievous wit. That is no fault of theirs, it's simply the nature of this beast.

As for the Blender thread ... Oh, Lord have mercy ... THAT was funny.

[Vicar]

I think what the poster meant by being sensitive because she was from Boston has to do with I believe that a very large percentage of the charges brought against the priests in question came out of the Boston Diocese. And to make matters worse Cardinal Law of Boston was quite uncooperative with the churchs investigation into it. I know it was all over the news when it first happened and with the poster being from Boston , they probably heard much more about it.

[RevNeal]

Vicar, that was my supposition as well.

[Vicar]

Rev

You are very welcome. :)

I've been in the hot seat a few times myself for not being able to type as eloquently as I speak *LOL*

[Vicar]

Rev,

Thats what I figured, because I remember it being a big news story for a few weeks and in fact I believe the Cardinal resigned or was forced to resign over the whole ordeal.

[superstein61]

Kerry-

Did you have a great time? My kids loved cruising on the Zui last summer. There were tons of teenagers on our cruise and they had a blast. I thought I read a post where you mentioned something about underage drinking in the Northern Lights? Maybe it was another poster...
ekerr - I was on the same cruise as Kerry - and as I noted, saw no problems whatsoever with the kids. A few seniors caused me more problems than any kids.

As far as underage drinking - I did not see a lot, but I raised a few eyebrows at a couple young girls being served alchohol by the Lido Pool on Barbecue night. No way IMO they were 21. but the HAL server served them anyways - either because they were anxious for their tip - or because, well, the girls were quite attractive

[Krazy Kruizers]

:)

So now that the bar tenders may seem to be anxious for extra tips - will the practice of serving underage teens drinks become a thing of the future???

Maybe HAL should have a special card for underaged people?? When they show this card with their name on it, once their cabin number is put into the computer it will show their age and that they shouldn't be served drinks. These special cards can be issued when they check in at the pier.

:)

[Nasmas]

Is anyone brave enough to start a poll banning those rude retirees? I guess they couldnt do that. Too bad for the cruise industry. I usually blame the parents for unruly children. Who do we blame for unruly seniors? Society?

[MandyGirl]

:)

Maybe HAL should have a special card for underaged people?? When they show this card with their name on it, once their cabin number is put into the computer it will show their age and that they shouldn't be served drinks. These special cards can be issued when they check in at the pier.

:)




I had understood on some cruiselines that this was already in practice. When the card is swiped, then it flags the crewmember of the passenger's alcohol-status. (I've also read before on one line where if over 18, parents can sign a waiver for beer/wine but not the hard stuff).

This is HAL's alcohol "policy":
http://www.hollandamerica.com/guests/category.do?category=children&topic=under21

[hallie]

Just returned from 7/29 Westerdam cruise of Europe. Many children on board. Was a large group of youth, mostly boys 10-14 yr range, who were definitely seen and noticed. Night of dessert extravaganza they took over the front of the lines. They were picking up and handling the plates, licking the ice sculptures, pushing each other while around others, and more. They were completely unattended and no one from HAL would say anything to them.

Also had problems in the shows with little ones who talked loudly during the shows. These times, the parents didn't do anything.

On this cruise it seemed that HAL did a poor job of keeping the kids occupied. I've been on many other cruises where children and youth were almost always supervised by someone from the cruise staff. If they were up late and wandering around the ship, they would be in an organized group. This was not the case on the Westerdam. The kids owned the Lido at night.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree with many. It's definitely the parents. Let's do a parents poll:D . For some odd reason I'm feeling very giddy this afternoon. Probably relief from not being hit by Charley.

[Jacqueline]

Hallie- we were on the same cruise. I would second that HAL did a poor job with the kids center and programming. I am too jet lagged to get into it now, but HAL knew there was a large group of kids coming on and yet they really had staff that wasnt very engaging and did some unwise things in terms of lumping groups together (5-12) . My 11 year old daughter was not going to join in a group with so many *little* kids/boys. The teens were really at sea. They used the teen room for kids programs and staff was not engaging. On Celebrity in March my daugher and the other teens were always in the *tower*. On this cruise they were never in the center. And they really missed having a place to meet and hang out. Many of the other kids commented that it was a very weak program compared with other lines.
Then they kicked the under 18's out of the disco at night leaving them no where to go.
I also saw those same bratty boys at the dessert extravaganza. They demanded on a loud voice a piece of everything.
One little kids was running full steam down my corridor. I was walking back from my daughters cabin wearing just my HAL bathrobe. I caught the kid as he flew by me, swung him in the air and said : "no running- you will knock someone over". Never saw him running again.

[digby]

Your poll assumes rotten parents.


And we all know THEY don't exist! LOL!

[sail7seas]

I think what the poster meant by being sensitive because she was from Boston has to do with I believe that a very large percentage of the charges brought against the priests in question came out of the Boston Diocese. And to make matters worse Cardinal Law of Boston was quite uncooperative with the churchs investigation into it. I know it was all over the news when it first happened and with the poster being from Boston , they probably heard much more about it.

Aha.....Yes, Vicar. That is it. It did not occur to me but now that you explain, I am sure you are correct. Boston certainly has been the center of the charges/investigations/trials. It has been horrible.

[Cruiseoften]

Just returned from 7/29 Westerdam cruise of Europe. Many children on board. Was a large group of youth, mostly boys 10-14 yr range, who were definitely seen and noticed. Night of dessert extravaganza they took over the front of the lines. They were picking up and handling the plates, licking the ice sculptures, pushing each other while around others, and more. They were completely unattended and no one from HAL would say anything to them.

Also had problems in the shows with little ones who talked loudly during the shows. These times, the parents didn't do anything.

On this cruise it seemed that HAL did a poor job of keeping the kids occupied. I've been on many other cruises where children and youth were almost always supervised by someone from the cruise staff. If they were up late and wandering around the ship, they would be in an organized group. This was not the case on the Westerdam. The kids owned the Lido at night.

We're beyond the stage of having kids requiring supervision! In the days when they did, we accepted full responsibility.

I don't believe any cruise line, land resort or restaurant should be responsible for keeping kids occupied and supervised at all times - the parents (or a professional Nanny) are responsible and should be held accountable for the actions of their offspring. As for the 10-14 year olds at the dessert extravaganza, I agree that HAL had a responsibility to step in and maintain order. Surprises me that none of the other passengers did nothing.

I agree that the cruise line should and could have been in charge of the Lido - those in a Nanny's charge would be long asleep!

Guess we're of a different generation!

[localady]

We're beyond the stage of having kids requiring supervision! In the days when they did, we accepted full responsibility.

Guess we're of a different generation!
I don't think that all parents of this generation allow their children to misbehave. My children are no where near perfect, but I have worked very hard to teach my children to be respectful and polite. I have also witnessed children whose parents think that their little darlings can do no wrong, and that they are just "expressing themselves".:rolleyes: I truly have no patience for that behavior, and my kids tell me that their friends think I am "mean". If my "mean" means that my children have been raised to act respectfully and with manners then I agree, I am really mean!!:eek: :cool:

[anniecat]

just back from the Amsterdam to ALaska...400 kids on board. I'm not thrilled by kids, get easily annoyed with bad behavior, and can't stand parents who don't respect others...that said, I had NO problems with the kids, the 17 y/o's dressed like freaks seemed to have fun playing with the younger kids, never saw anything but a smile, no running around or stupid behavior. even the parents removed their babes when crying started. A GREAT CRUISE :D
anniecat

[anniecat]

just back from the Amsterdam to ALaska...400 kids on board. I'm not thrilled by kids, get easily annoyed with bad behavior, and can't stand parents who don't respect others...that said, I had NO problems with the kids, the 17 y/o's dressed like freaks seemed to have fun playing with the younger kids, never saw anything but a smile, no running around or stupid behavior. even the parents removed their babes when crying started. A GREAT CRUISE :D
anniecat

[Roboat]

Well, certainly all boys under the age of 30 should be banned, not only from cruise ships, but from appearing in public.

Little girls should be allowed to cruise for free. My wife and I will babysit. As grumpy as I try to be, I simply cannot sustain it with little girls.

Oh I suppose, on RARE occasions, a little boy can be cute too, but only in brief periods measured in nanoseconds. Then he usually begins putting or pulling something into or out of his nose, or eating someone else's gum which has been stuck under the table.

This is not just my opinion - I WAS a boy, so I know this for a fact. Plus I have numerous grandsons (5 or 6, I don't recall) and one precious granddaughter.

[Vicar]

Roboat,



I had a cute little girl once, then she turned 17 and drives me crazy *LOL*

The phone calls, the bathroom, the boys, the clothes, the shopping, the whining,

[RevNeal]

The phone calls, the bathroom, the boys, the clothes, the shopping, the whining,

...the wedding. :D

[carmzav]

We didn't notice any problems with children on our cruise last week, until the next to the last day. Does Club HAL end early or something?? That day at sea, there seemed to be children running and screaming everywhere! The game room, up to that point, had been a quiet place where adults were playing cards. We ended up leaving the area because the unsupervised children were so loud.

Generally speaking, I don't mind well behaved children anywhere . :D I could tell some stories about my experiences in restaurants and grocery stores though! ;)

The only thing I noticed last week, other than that one day, was the parents who brought their infant along. The baby was quiet the whole time, but I was walking through the casino and noticed Dad changing the baby's diaper on the sofa, which is just gross!! I guess he figured that the sofa would be reupholstered for the next person who wanted to sit on it. :rolleyes:

[Vicar]

Thanks REV!!!!!!! *LOL*


MY blood pressure just shot up to 190/100.

My doctor told me when it gets to 200...SELL *LOL*

Do you know any nice sons of oil or cattle barons down there in Texas you could fix her up with *LOL*

[Orcrone]

Roboat,



I had a cute little girl once, then she turned 17 and drives me crazy *LOL*

The phone calls, the bathroom, the boys, the clothes, the shopping, the whining,Mine turned 17 on Sunday. AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[Vicar]

Orcrone,

*pouring you a stiff drink*

CHEERS!!!

May God go easy on us

*LOL*

[Roboat]

Ah yes, I have 2 daughters myself, both past 17. They taught me a lot, including how dumb it is not to keep my razor under lock and key so as not to have it ruined shaving their legs, or lost forever among the COSMETICS.:eek:

[Vicar]

Haven't had a problem with the razors , her and GF use those lady shavers so they leave mine alone. The make up is pretty out of hand though (For both her and GF) I don't think either one of them has the same color nails twice in the same week *LOL*

What still amazes me though is that her and her three friends together don't add up to a size 10 dress size and yet they can get together and eat a weeks worth of groceries while watching a movie. :)

[RevNeal]

Do you know any nice sons of oil or cattle barons down there in Texas you could fix her up with *LOL*

LOL ... hardly. I know some sons of high-tech barons and banking barons, though ... but they're all married. :) Sorry! :D

[Lisa63]

We didn't notice any problems with children on our cruise last week, until the next to the last day. Does Club HAL end early or something?? That day at sea, there seemed to be children running and screaming everywhere! The game room, up to that point, had been a quiet place where adults were playing cards. We ended up leaving the area because the unsupervised children were so loud. This is one major problem I have with the kids' programs on most lines. Children over a certain age (usually as young as 8 or 9) are able to sign themselves out of the program. While parents can refuse to provide such permission, it seems that most allow this, which results in the youngsters running unsupervised throughout the ship. We stopped using kids' programs for that reason, and our son (now almost 11) stays with us. Fortunately, he doesn't mind, and we like the "family vacation" aspect.

The only thing I noticed last week, other than that one day, was the parents who brought their infant along. The baby was quiet the whole time, but I was walking through the casino and noticed Dad changing the baby's diaper on the sofa, which is just gross!! I guess he figured that the sofa would be reupholstered for the next person who wanted to sit on it. :rolleyes:Yuck... that's inexcusable, IMO. When our son was little, we took care of those needs in the privacy of our cabin. Also scary is that this Dad could not have properly washed his hands afterwards. Again, yuck!

[Vicar]

REV,

Thanks anyway,

Well I sent a picture of her and a nice letter to Prince William , lets see what I hear from him *LOL*

[dst]

How about if we interview the parents first to see if they watch their children or let them run around the ship like animals.....that is the real problem! Parents go on vacation and forget they brought the children

[Vicar]

DST


Hey married lady :)

Haven't seen you in a while. I know you said the cruise was great , I am glad :)

How is everything goin?, How is married life?

The only thing is if they are the kind of parents who let their kids run wild on a ship, they will probably be the type to lie about it to the interviewer *LOL* see its a double edged sword *LOL*

[Roboat]

It finally occurred to me that this issue of kids is not really a cruise-related question. And neither are many other issues dealing with civility, discipline, attitude, the good ole' days, seniors, genXr's, dress codes, and the general decline of civilization.

The only thing they have to do with cruising is that for a week or two we are a microcosm - with a huge range of opinions and practices. Forced to live in a confined area, in the presence of others, for a week or two, we experience our differences much more directly.

When you factor in that, for many of us, a cruise is a large expenditure of money and vacation time, we can get a pretty good head of entitlement going.

Maybe anything that bothers us a little on land will bother us a lot on a cruise if we don't temper our expectations with healthy dose of tolerance, mutual respect, and rum.

Now I say We, but of course I'm just being polite. I mean everyone else. :D ;)

[dst]

Hey Vicar:

Yes I feel like an old married lady as well :)
The cruise was wonderful and although there were a few things it by all means was still a great honeymoon. The problem is that since I got back I can't seem to catch up at work; so I have had to cut my time on these boards *LOL*

you guys are cracking me up on this thread, I may never have children....

[Vicar]

DST


Glad married life is agreeing with you :) and that you had a good time.

For all the times my daughter makes me crazy , it is nothing compared to all the times she has made me so happy and proud. I think you will be a wonderful Mom. :)

[ekerr19]

I had understood on some cruiselines that this was already in practice. When the card is swiped, then it flags the crewmember of the passenger's alcohol-status. (I've also read before on one line where if over 18, parents can sign a waiver for beer/wine but not the hard stuff).

This is HAL's alcohol "policy":
http://www.hollandamerica.com/guests/category.do?category=children&topic=under21
Mandygirl-

HAL's system does show the age of the person and this was a big bone of contention with me on our last cruise.

For some strange reason, they listed my son and pax #1 (instead of my DH), my daughter as pax #2 (instead of me) - DH was #3 and I was #4.

My "son" (actually DH) should never been allowed to charge alcohol to pax #1 - but did. This also happened to a number of different families.

I almost hit the roof when I received a "pre" print-out of Kyle's (my 16-yr old) cabin charges showing all the alcohol - until I realized it was actually DH's... they never did get it straightened out. :(

[divinggirl]

that said, I had NO problems with the kids, the 17 y/o's dressed like freaks seemed to have fun playing with the younger kids The 17 yo's were dressed at all? Wow...wait, I guess you were in Alaska! ;)

[dst]

Vicar: I'll be still coming to this wonderful thread to get parenting advice from all of oyu! **LOL****