Taking grand children, forms? HAL yes, Princess no

[billroddy]

Had to swtich my plans for taking the grandchildren on a cruise as HAL had no Mexican Riviera at their spring break.
When I asked Princess about letters from parents, they said the line no longer had that requirement.
Bill

[MercedMike]

Had to swtich my plans for taking the grandchildren on a cruise as HAL had no Mexican Riviera at their spring break.
When I asked Princess about letters from parents, they said the line no longer had that requirement.
Bill

Whether or not the cruise line requires it, IMHO it would be very very foolish to travel with children without letters from their parents giving permission to leave the country and consenting to medical treatment. Better safe than sorry. Authorities in some foreign country may demand them.

Have a GREAT cruise!

[Northshorecruisers]

Princess asked to see the signed consent for my 16 y/o son on our Nov '07 cruise. Even if the cruise line didn't request it, what if there were some sort of issue while in a port. I have to agree with Mike, better safe than sorry.

[jrzebird]

I must agree that it would be foolish to go without these letters. It's so simple, and merely requires a few minutes to write them out, and have them signed and notarized. I work for a law firm and we have done this several times, as it was required by the airline, and I believe Immigration, to take the child out of the country without both parents. This rule is as a result of too many kidnappings of children by their parent or other non-custodial guardian. And then there's the medical aspect. Heck, I don't even leave my pets to the care of a sitter without written permission for medical treatment if needed!

[sailinglisa]

While Princess might not require those letters, Immigration in both Mexico and the USA may require those letters. So, be on the safe side and please, get the letters!

[FATJACK]

Dear Billroddy...Sorry to see you back with our questions still unanswered. It looks like you, I and other grand parents have more questions on this subject. What many of the above posters might not realize is that in many divorce situations, one of the parents will not sign a notarized permission letter mainly because they can.

With all the confusion and conflicting information out there I hope Princess is right and they have updated information. If in fact that HAL is giving out wrong information, then they don't deserve our business.

Please let us know what happens because there many of us out there just like you.

[jrzebird]

Dear Billroddy...Sorry to see you back with our questions still unanswered. It looks like you, I and other grand parents have more questions on this subject. What many of the above posters might not realize is that in many divorce situations, one of the parents will not sign a notarized permission letter mainly because they can.

With all the confusion and conflicting information out there I hope Princess is right and they have updated information. If in fact that HAL is giving out wrong information, then they don't deserve our business.

Please let us know what happens because there many of us out there just like you.

I am fairly positive you must have a consent form, which is required when traveling with one parent or someone not a parent. And, since it is so easy to do, why is there even a question. Seems like you're digging your heels in for no good reason. Not sure this will attach, and you're really be better off talking to Immigration or an attorney, but you can easily find the form online. Travel Consent Form from LawDepot.com (http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/consent/index.php?pid=google-consnt_us-main_a2-s-ggkey_travel%20with%20grandchild&&s_kwcid=travel%20with%20grandchild|588668349&gclid=CPDXyciRyZACFShsGgodSzLZYA&a=t)

[FATJACK]

Jrzebird...There would be no problem if it was so easy. What if one of the parents refuse to sign a notarized letter? This is where the big problem is. If the notarized letter is no longer needed as Princess says, why get it?

[galipemi]

FATJAK, I think that there might be a solution if there is no joint custody agreement. If one parent has sole custody then only their approval is required. In the case that there is joint custody, Immigration can pitch a fit if they want to. I worked for an airline for 5 years and there were days in the US Immigration hall at Toronto airport where it seemed like every other case was denied because they did not have a letter from a parent. And it's not just the US, most countries will request this form. Even when I was travelling at 18 with my 13 year old cousin, I had to have the form with me.

Hope that helps but if not, I would suggest contacting the consulate for the countries you will be visiting. They should be able to confirm if you require the letter or not.

As other posters have mentioned, it's not only for Immigration though. At another point in time I worked for a call center for Travel Medical Insurance and some medical facilities will not treat a child (including in the US) without written consent from the absent parents.

[sail7seas]

I wouldn't dream of trying to take a minor child on an international trip of any sort without notarized authorization letters. Just asking for major headache and disappointment IMO

I understand it can be difficult if dealing with a reluctant or uncooperative parent but there is no sense investing all the money and anticipation into a wonderful trip that may be prematurely aborted.

Good luck to those who think they may have a problem getting the authorizations signed.

[jrzebird]

Jrzebird...There would be no problem if it was so easy. What if one of the parents refuse to sign a notarized letter? This is where the big problem is. If the notarized letter is no longer needed as Princess says, why get it?

I do understand there are problems on occasion, but the problem with getting a party to cooperate isn't going to sway the authorities. They don't care, the rules are the rules. If you find the forms are required (after contacting the State Dept. or Immigration and the various consulates of countries you are going to visit) and you can't get someone to sign, a court order may be needed to get that cooperation. If you read the website I attached, it says just what galipemi said. 2 signatures are not always needed. But, as everyone has said, you should have them anyway, in the event of a medical necessity.

Ya know, the only reason I answered this thread in the first place was because you seemed to be blaming HAL for confusing information (With all the confusion and conflicting information out there I hope Princess is right and they have updated information. If in fact that HAL is giving out wrong information, then they don't deserve our business). IMHO, this board is not the place to get legal advice, and neither is the HAL call center. A call to the Dept of State or an attorney would probably be the best place to get your information.

[hammybee]

Dear Billroddy...Sorry to see you back with our questions still unanswered. It looks like you, I and other grand parents have more questions on this subject. What many of the above posters might not realize is that in many divorce situations, one of the parents will not sign a notarized permission letter mainly because they can.

With all the confusion and conflicting information out there I hope Princess is right and they have updated information. If in fact that HAL is giving out wrong information, then they don't deserve our business.

Please let us know what happens because there many of us out there just like you.

The laws are in place to protect minors, especially when their parents are divorced. If one parent will not sign a consent, chances are it will be necessary to go to court to force the situation. I would do this before booking a cruise to avoid disappointment, down the road.

I would not trust an employee of any cruise line to know what will or will not be necessary if for no other reason than things change, country by country.

While it is unlikely that one will be asked for documentation on a R/T cruise, I would hate to not be allowed to board and lose the cost of the cruise, because I tried to circumvent law designed to protect the minor.

[FATJACK]

Getting notarized permission might meet your needs but neither immigration or customs require those forms for a minor to leave the country. In fact neither immigration or customs track people when they leave the U.S. The notarized letters (if needed) are the requirement of the hosting country.

In checking with the U.S. Department of State web site there are links to all foreign web sites where entry requirement for minors are addressed.

With all the recent changes with passport requirements, it looks like things are changing in this area.

My wife and I just returned from a two week trip in October with two of our grand children. All that was required for them was a passport.

[2ndsailing]

My husband and I always sign a letter to "Whom It May Concern" that our minor child, ______is travelling with_______with our full knowledge and consent. We include our home address and telephone number. We have never had it notorized though (and my husband is a lawyer). When the children were young, there were a few times when only one of us were travelling with the children. We did a letter signed by the parent that was staying home that I was aware that they were leaving the country. By the way, our children have always had their own passports too.

My son went away last year with my brother to Europe, we did this letter and my son told me no one asked for it, but its better safe than sorry. Its a lot of money to lose if for some reason the children are denied boarding access on a plane, ship or whatever means of transportation.

I do appreciate that this might be more difficult when the parents are divorced.

[MercedMike]

Dear Billroddy...Sorry to see you back with our questions still unanswered. It looks like you, I and other grand parents have more questions on this subject. What many of the above posters might not realize is that in many divorce situations, one of the parents will not sign a notarized permission letter mainly because they can.

With all the confusion and conflicting information out there I hope Princess is right and they have updated information. If in fact that HAL is giving out wrong information, then they don't deserve our business.

Please let us know what happens because there many of us out there just like you.

Wow -- you mean you would consider taking a child in a divorce custody situation traveling WITHOUT signed permission of both parents?? OMG. Think of the legal trouble the other parent could make for you. I wouldn't chance it in a million years! Get the permission, signed by BOTH parents -- or please please make some other plans.

[FATJACK]

MercedMike...I will do what is legal and what is required. The problem is that there is too many conflicting stories as to what is required. Mike... do you have any facts to add to this post?

[Jade13]

I do understand there are problems on occasion, but the problem with getting a party to cooperate isn't going to sway the authorities. They don't care, the rules are the rules. If you find the forms are required (after contacting the State Dept. or Immigration and the various consulates of countries you are going to visit) and you can't get someone to sign, a court order may be needed to get that cooperation. If you read the website I attached, it says just what galipemi said. 2 signatures are not always needed. But, as everyone has said, you should have them anyway, in the event of a medical necessity.

Ya know, the only reason I answered this thread in the first place was because you seemed to be blaming HAL for confusing information (With all the confusion and conflicting information out there I hope Princess is right and they have updated information. If in fact that HAL is giving out wrong information, then they don't deserve our business). IMHO, this board is not the place to get legal advice, and neither is the HAL call center. A call to the Dept of State or an attorney would probably be the best place to get your information.

I know a lot of single parents, many who adopted and there is no father. I also know gay couples and so two same sex parents, so no mother and father, plus most couples I know have two different last names. Does this childs name match yours? How would anyone know if I am the mother or stepmother? Immigration would have to stop everyone and say are you the parent or grandparent (you can't even tell these days with the age some, especially men, are having children)? Are you the parent or step parent? Are you a single parent with full custody? Or to a same sex couple, where is the mother or father? The OP should bring a passport and at least the one notorized letter if they can't get both. But I agree with you that the OPs attorney should know best.

It is a good idea that the US government is suggesting everyone have passports. I think in most cases with the passport both parents have consented along the way.

[fireofficer5]

There's no requirement or law for permission to take minors on a cruise.

[galipemi]

I think the confusion is who is requiring the letter. This is not something the cruise lines have chosen to require at this time (obviously depending on the cruise line). However, the governments of each country you visit may have a different view on the matter. This is not something the cruise line can change. One thing to remember is that although your presence is not required, you do actually pass through Immigration for each country you visit during your cruise. Typically, the officers board the ship and will request to see whatever documents they choose, some make it easy on the ship others don't. I was held up in Honolulu once for over an hour before they would clear the guests to go ashore. This is the reason you can't just go ashore once the gangway is out, sometimes it takes a few minutes while the officials come on board and start looking at paperwork.

I would reiterate my previous suggestion and contact the local embassy for each country you are visiting and ask if their laws require you to have the letter. If so, find out if the letter from one parent is sufficient and if it needs to be notarized (some don't). You can most certainly take the chance and in all likelyhood you will not be asked to present it but, better to have it and not use it than to be asked for it and not have it.

Just my two cents.

[FATJACK]

Galipemi...Thank you for your well written response. Links to all foreign government and their entry requirements are on the U.S. Department of State web page when you enter "traveling with minors" on the State Department web page. Even after reading most of them there is still some confusion on Mexico and Canada and their requirements. Mexico lists some very strict entry requirements for minors that go far beyond what many of the above people have suggested. BUT, then they send out mixed messages where if the minor has a passport, then they don't require it in real like.

I do hold HAL and other travel providers partially responsible for keeping up on these changes in that the travel provider is the one who will prevent you from boarding a cruise or a flight, not customs or immigration.

[Mary Ellen]

In order to prevent the abduction of minor children by one parent, many countries are requiring a notarized letter/documentation before being allowed to ENTER the country. Shockingly, this action wasn't done just to inconvenience grandparents/single parents wanting to legitimately vacation with a child.

For more info see:
http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/prevention/prevention_560.html
http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/country/country_508.html
http://travelwithkids.about.com/cs/carplanetips/a/crossborders.htm
http://www.sfsu.edu/~oip/travelhandouts/MinorChild.pdf
http://www.abriggs.com/high_level/travel_w_minors.php
http://www.cozumelinsider.com/Vacplan?From=Lodging
Of particular interest:
Regarding Travel Permission Letters for Minor Children - The Government of Mexico, Interior Secretariat, Regulation of the General Law of Population (Article 215), requires that minors who will not be accompanied by one or both of their parents or legal guardians, have in their possession an original written permission form signed by the non-traveling parent(s), and notarized.

Best advise I ever gave my half-sister was not to put the birth-father's name on her daughter's birth certificate. We knew she would want to travel with her daughter and the odds of her being able to obtain future permission from him were NOT good. She has extremely poor judgment in men. :rolleyes: The father has since returned to his home country, fleeing the US - because of an arrest warrant issued after he tried to kill said half-sister (who was holding their daughter at the time). And yes, he does want to get his daughter out of the US to his home country.

While these regulations can be a pain in the posterior, we are VERY thankful to all (including HAL) who follow them.

[FATJACK]

Mary Ellen...Those links you posted are great. I would have posted some of them earlier, but because of my limited knowledge of the computer, I would have had to have my thirteen year old grandson over to show me how to do it.

The part in traveling with minors I knew, but it's my experiences and problems I have with the Mexican Officals and some travel providers is that they will waive the notarized letter requirements when the minor has a passport.

Although it is not written on any offical web site I've seen, I just think there might have been a change?

[MercedMike]

MercedMike...I will do what is legal and what is required. The problem is that there is too many conflicting stories as to what is required. Mike... do you have any facts to add to this post?

There may be a large difference between what is legal, what is required, and what is prudent.

I would like to suggest that if the divorce and custody situation surrounding these children is such that the father refuses to sign documents, it is very likely a legal situation that has the possibility of turning nasty. Getting in the middle of such a legal situation may not be the wise decision, even if you think you have met all the legal requirements. If you want to know the legal details, obviously you should consult a good family law attorney, not ask on a bulletin board.

Personally, I would NEVER travel out of the country with any minors unless I had signed permission and medical forms from both parents -- whether or not that was a legal requirement. I'm not trying to be confrontational nor insulting here, just trying to point out what seem to me to be valid considerations.

Sometimes it is the better decision to not take chances and to avoid potentially difficult situations. Disney World is a great place for kids.

[FATJACK]

Thanks to everybody, especially MercedMike..I've decided to retain an attorney to travel with me and my extended family at all times.

As a product of the "sixties", I will continue to "question authority".

[Two if by Sea]

I've decided to retain an attorney to travel with me and my extended family at all times.
.

Seriously? Is this a family member? Or are you really paying an attorney to go on vacation with you? If so, do they get their full hourly rate for 24 hours a day, or how does that work?

[FATJACK]

Two if by sea...You get a cut rate if you let the attorney feed with the sharks when you hit port.

[diana60]

We frequently take our grandchildren who are 4 and 6 now, out of the country and have Letters of Authority signed by their parents and notorized which gives us permission to travel with them also allows us to authorize medical treatment (this was needed once when our granddaughter hurt her foot and needed medical attention as the Doctors office asked for it), The US customs and immigration usually ask us for the letter when we cross into the States from Canada. Don't risk not getting the letter it's not worth it.