Underage Drinking on HAL...

[ekerr19]

It sounds as if there has been a recent "outbreak" of underage drinking, especially on the Zuiderdam.

We've only encountered it on two ships, one was the 16-day Holiday sailing of the Noordam - and the other was last summer on the Zuiderdam.

Many of you know that I have expressed my displeasure over our Zuiderdam cruise and the fact that I have no real desire to sail on her again. The main reason I feel this way is due to this alcohol related incident that occurred while we were onboard - I think it prevents me from keeping an open mind, though I do try - and have been pleased to hear many recent cruisers reporting wonderful experiences. :)

The ship's security handled the matter we were involved in very quickly and efficiently and they were top notch - as was the Zui's security center. I just can't believe they can't seem to get a handle on all the underage drinking.

This is just a powder keg, IMO - and needs to be addressed as soon as possible. If parents cannot control their teens, the whole family needs to be put off the ship at the next port.

Does anyone else have any experiences with underage drinkers? I like to think we were the minority.

[sail7seas]

In all total honesty.......I have had conversations with Hotel Managers, F & B's, Bartenders and Security Officers about teen drinking on the ships and I am so very sure they do not tolerate, permit, serve teens drinks.


I have seen bartenders study ID's (licenses) and refuse to serve in the Crowsnest particularly.

I certainly cannot say that no HAL bartender has ever served a teen. I am sure it has happened. But it is absolutely HAL's position that no under age pax are to be served alcohol. No exceptions.

I almost expect that some of the teens who have gotten their hands on liquor may well have gotten it from their parents. Mom or Dad ordered a drink and gave it to sonny boy......who knows where their stupid heads are but not all parents are as responsible as we would like. They may figure....oh well, sonny boy is going to drink anyway so he may as well do it when with me than out with his friends.

These are the same folks who are not usually concerned with any disturbance sonny boy may cause to other passengers. The same folks who always pick and choose which rules are to be followed as fits their individual whims.

[Nasmas]

Are you sure these are teens? The older I get the younger 20-somethings look. I am not disputing your word, but just wonder if you knew for fact that they were underaged. I have never encountered this but I've never been on a cruise with a lot of teenagers. I too have seen bartenders 'carding' people that looked too young to drink and have seen them turn away some.

[Orcrone]

When I sailed with Carnival last year I did not notice teens drinking on the ship. However, I thought it was very prevalent on some of the shore excursions that included drinks.

[divinggirl]

Can I mention that in most other places in the WORLD, the drinking age is 18? Friends who have sailed on past cruises have been permitted to imbibe on board, as they are out of US waters. In my experience, cruises are popular for Spring Breakers because of this reason, so it is not a stretch to assume that some of these parents believe that the legal onboard age is 18, because it is at most Caribbean ports. I am not excusing bad behavior, and a 13 yo drinking is certainly ridiculous, but this is something to keep in mind.

Nikki

[Krazy Kruizers]

I have not personally seen any teenagers served a drink. But that doesn't say that it doesn't happen.

We have had 2 realiable posters here indicate that they have seen underage people served drinks.

And If I remember correctly, one of them said her brother who is underage was served alcohol one night.

I just hope that HAL isn't relaxing too many rules or just turning the other way so that the bar staff can get extra tips.

[elmorejj]

KK, I was thinking the exact same thing, bar servers trying to get their quota up so they receive more tips. I also have seen teens refused drinks on board, then been on the same excursions with them and saw them imbibing. It would be very difficult especially for European teens who are used to drinking, way before they are 18....jean :cool:

[spcl4cs_gal]

This is just a powder keg, IMO - and needs to be addressed as soon as possible. If parents cannot control their teens, the whole family needs to be put off the ship at the next port.


EXACTLY!! BRAVO for saying this!! Now if we could only get the cruise lines to listen.

[ekerr19]

Are you sure these are teens? The older I get the younger 20-somethings look. I am not disputing your word, but just wonder if you knew for fact that they were underaged. I have never encountered this but I've never been on a cruise with a lot of teenagers. I too have seen bartenders 'carding' people that looked too young to drink and have seen them turn away some.

Yes, they were teens on the Zuiderdam. There was only one involved in the actual incident - turns out his father was purchasing drinks for him - he was 17yrs. old. The incident was sparked by a band of roving teens - all who had been drinking. The oldest in the group was 18, youngest was 16.

On the Noordam, the son of a family we had befriended (a 20-yr old) was given permission by his father to drink in the bars and the bartenders served him. We were with them on several occassions. He behaved well enough, I just didn't agree with it - but their opinion was their other son was over 21 and they felt the younger son could handle it and they'd rather he do it while they are around.

[divinggirl]

Kudos to those parents for being REALISTIC. IMHO, if they really wanted to make sure that people were "responsible adults" at drinking age it would be 50 or something :), seriously, maybe like 25. Between 18 and 21 there is obviously maturation, but not much, and it is such an arbitrary number. At least 18 is when you can enlist...what's so much better about 21?

[ekerr19]

Kudos to those parents for being REALISTIC. IMHO, if they really wanted to make sure that people were "responsible adults" at drinking age it would be 50 or something :), seriously, maybe like 25. Between 18 and 21 there is obviously maturation, but not much, and it is such an arbitrary number. At least 18 is when you can enlist...what's so much better about 21?

divinggirl-

I'm not sure about this one... my oldest son is 25, my next oldest is 16. I think it took my oldest to his 24th B-day before he really started understanding his liquor limitations. All his friends drink like there is no tomorrow - I hate to think what may have happened if he (and his friends) could legally drink at 18.

We took my oldest on the Noordam cruise with us - while there weren't many in his age group, there was good group that quickly became friends. They stayed mainly in one bar, the Hornpipe Club and I made certain the bartenders knew me, my DH & our son - and told them it was more than OK to cut my son off after a certain number of drinks (without embarassing him). My son was 23 at the time, so this is pretty controlling of me - but he was grateful & I didn't want the consumption of too much alcohol ruin his cruise (which we were paying for) or ours.

As for the Zuiderdam, well to me there is no logical explanation for a parent purchasing a 17-yr old any drinks containing liquor. What this kid was trying to pull could have had serious ramifications if DH hadn't intervened.

[divinggirl]

You make very valid points, and sorry if I was a bit unclear, I'm not promoting changing the drinking age. However, and this could be the issue of a whole other thread and probably has been, when a behavior is disallowed, it only encourages that behavior. I know of some people my age (26) that shouldn't be allowed to drink, even now,:) and also know some 18 year olds that could probably handle it better than I can. All I'm saying is that 21 is so very arbitrary, and, as the tired old saying goes, how can one be old enough to decide to die for their country but not old enough to drink a beer. If this kid was doing it with his parents and their approval, that was probably WAY more effective at encouraging moderation then telling him "No way" and having him sneak around. My DH's mom (I guess she's my MIL now, that's still new to me):) allowed them to drink at 19 in her presence, and while all his friends went out and got hammered at every opportunity, he was usually the DD by choice...

[dakrewser]

I'm not sure about this one... my oldest son is 25, my next oldest is 16. I think it took my oldest to his 24th B-day before he really started understanding his liquor limitations.
That's too bad. We introduced our children to wine before they could walk, or talk. Drinking wine was simply something they did with their meals. Not only do they all have a good palate these days, but all also understand (and have from an early age) their limits. None (and my "baby" is now 28) have ever been, to my knowledge, involved in an alcohol related incident.

We liked the law on this in Texas, compared to other places we lived. 21 was the legal drinking age, but children under 21 could be served wine in a restaurant when accompanied by their parents. Struck me as very civilized.

[divinggirl]

We liked the law on this in Texas, compared to other places we lived. 21 was the legal drinking age, but children under 21 could be served wine in a restaurant when accompanied by their parents. Struck me as very civilized.
Same here in MD, for wine and beer. Better to introduce yourself than have it done by their friends, kind of like sex ed!!!:D :o

[ekerr19]

You make very valid points, and sorry if I was a bit unclear, I'm not promoting changing the drinking age. However, and this could be the issue of a whole other thread and probably has been, when a behavior is disallowed, it only encourages that behavior. I know of some people my age (26) that shouldn't be allowed to drink, even now,:) and also know some 18 year olds that could probably handle it better than I can. All I'm saying is that 21 is so very arbitrary, and, as the tired old saying goes, how can one be old enough to decide to die for their country but not old enough to drink a beer. If this kid was doing it with his parents and their approval, that was probably WAY more effective at encouraging moderation then telling him "No way" and having him sneak around. My DH's mom (I guess she's my MIL now, that's still new to me):) allowed them to drink at 19 in her presence, and while all his friends went out and got hammered at every opportunity, he was usually the DD by choice...

divinggirl:

You have a very valid point too. I am by no means a "teetotaller", nor is DH. :D I've just seen an abundance of younger people drinking beyond a point that is wise or healthy. Take MTV's Spring Break televised show - young kids getting alcohol poisoning, eek. I am afraid my 16-yr old may start to think this is the norm.

I certainly drank before I was 21, my parents let us drink a small amount of wine at Thanksgiving, New Year's, weddings, etc. I think your MIL was wise to do it the way she did, sounds like your DH is better off - we've tried to do similar with our oldest, but I am still amazed by some of the things his friends do :)

To me, it is one thing to allow your teens to drink in your presence - quite another to allow them to go off and cause havoc on a cruise ship. :)

[ekerr19]

That's too bad. We introduced our children to wine before they could walk, or talk. Drinking wine was simply something they did with their meals. Not only do they all have a good palate these days, but all also understand (and have from an early age) their limits. None (and my "baby" is now 28) have ever been, to my knowledge, involved in an alcohol related incident.

We liked the law on this in Texas, compared to other places we lived. 21 was the legal drinking age, but children under 21 could be served wine in a restaurant when accompanied by their parents. Struck me as very civilized.

Dave-

I didn't mean to imply ours had been in any alcohol related incidents :)

It just took him a bit longer to realize his limits - his friends seemed to always be able to drink much more than he. :)

I am still in favor of 21 and over. There are too many alcohol related traffic fatalites amongst teens to make me change my mind.

[elmorejj]

In my opinion, the driving age should be raised to 21 also.....jean :cool:

[imsulin]

I grew up in Colorado, and "way-back-when" you could buy 3.2% beer when you were 18 (Coors, of course). I certainly did my share of Coors, but by the time I had my own kids in the 70's, under-aged drinking was just something we didn't encourage when they reached their teen years. I'm not exactly sure what we did, as we had a bar in our family room, stocked with booze, and beer in the fridge (that would stay there for months), but it was just never a problem for us. We didn't hide the liquor...it was always in plain sight, but wasn't abused. Guess we were just lucky, because I honestly don't think we did anything above-and-beyond to wail against the vices. I remember a Christmas cruise on the Zaandam, and there was a very large family from Britain, that included a number of under 21-year olds. One of the young men - who was 20 - tried time and again to get drinks from the bars, and was consistently refused. He was NOT happy, because HIS legal drinking age was 18, and he let the bartenders know it. They never batted an eyelash...they just refused to serve him. This gave me a lot of respect for HAL (among other things).

[ekerr19]

I grew up in Colorado, and "way-back-when" you could buy 3.2% beer when you were 18 (Coors, of course). I certainly did my share of Coors, but by the time I had my own kids in the 70's, under-aged drinking was just something we didn't encourage when they reached their teen years. I'm not exactly sure what we did, as we had a bar in our family room, stocked with booze, and beer in the fridge (that would stay there for months), but it was just never a problem for us. We didn't hide the liquor...it was always in plain sight, but wasn't abused. Guess we were just lucky, because I honestly don't think we did anything above-and-beyond to wail against the vices. I remember a Christmas cruise on the Zaandam, and there was a very large family from Britain, that included a number of under 21-year olds. One of the young men - who was 20 - tried time and again to get drinks from the bars, and was consistently refused. He was NOT happy, because HIS legal drinking age was 18, and he let the bartenders know it. They never batted an eyelash...they just refused to serve him. This gave me a lot of respect for HAL (among other things).They still have 3.2% beer here in Colorado... it is the only beer you can buy in the grocery store... :) but it is no longer 18, all alcohol is 21 or over.

[ekerr19]

In my opinion, the driving age should be raised to 21 also.....jean :cool:
A minority position for sure, but one I think needs consideration. Either that or ban cell phone usage while driving... I see more teens talking and not paying attention - older drivers too, for that matter...

How important can a phone conversation be? :confused:

[hammybee]

In my opinion, the driving age should be raised to 21 also.....jean :cool:

We now live in Illinois ( one of these days I will update my profile). Anyway, the vast majority of kids acquire their permits at age 15 and get licenced at 16 and many get into an accident by 17. My daughter just turned 16 and I still won't alow her to get a permit becasue I do not believe she has the emotional maturity to be behind the wheel.

As for kids drinking on the ships, I have seen many parents order beer, wine and foo-foo drinks for their kids. I see thier point especially for those 18 and older. Check with me in two years to see if my position has changed.

A wise young man, 17 at the time, once told me that anyone who has more than 2 drinks is doing so because they have emotional and or social problems. It was one of those remarks that made me think twice therafter everytime I was about to have a third or forth cocktail.

[imsulin]

ekerr19...I'm from Littleton, originally. Graduated from Littleton High School when it was the ONLY high school in Littleton. Oops...dating myself! My kids went to TJHS in Denver. I moved in 1996, and still remember 3.2% Coors in King Soopers, Albertson's, and Safeway.

[Tricia724]

And don't forget there are those darling little minibars in the cabins with a ready supply of liquor. They don't ask the age of the person opening the door. I bet some parents get a real shock when they get their tab at the end of the cruise and see the minibar charges.

[lknick]

Just for factual accuracy, in the Netherland province of Noord Holland the drinking age is 16, in Sud Holland it is 17, and in Freisland it is 15.

The ship is flagged in the Netherlands and home ported in Sud Holland.

I know 'Know Before You Go' says 21 years of age for drinking, but I do not think there is a legal requirement outside of territorial waters.

And I'm not too sure that age determines anyone's ability to use their head.

[superstein61]

In all total honesty.......I have had conversations with Hotel Managers, F & B's, Bartenders and Security Officers about teen drinking on the ships and I am so very sure they do not tolerate, permit, serve teens drinks.


I have seen bartenders study ID's (licenses) and refuse to serve in the Crowsnest particularly.

I certainly cannot say that no HAL bartender has ever served a teen. I am sure it has happened. But it is absolutely HAL's position that no under age pax are to be served alcohol. No exceptions.

I almost expect that some of the teens who have gotten their hands on liquor may well have gotten it from their parents. Mom or Dad ordered a drink and gave it to sonny boy......who knows where their stupid heads are but not all parents are as responsible as we would like. They may figure....oh well, sonny boy is going to drink anyway so he may as well do it when with me than out with his friends.

These are the same folks who are not usually concerned with any disturbance sonny boy may cause to other passengers. The same folks who always pick and choose which rules are to be followed as fits their individual whims.
I am sorry but I disagree. I believe HAL's new auto-tip policy for waiters has changed their behavior and encouraged waiters to not ask for ID and discourage a sale and thus more money for them.

I know what I saw on the Zuiderdam a few weeks ago - when 2 clearly underage girls were served at the table next to me on the Lido deck. The waiter did not check any ID - nor room card. they simply asked for the room number and had the girl sign.

this may not be the case with all waiters - but I think some now are more concerned about the tip than stopping underage drinking

[bdmarine]

I'm going to have to agree with Iknick here. The ship is not an extension of the United States just because a lot of passengers are Americans. As many of you already know, our legal system arose from the Puritans, who were so annoyingly rigid that they were even thrown out of the usually tolerant Netherlands.

[ekerr19]

I grew up in Colorado, and "way-back-when" you could buy 3.2% beer when you were 18 (Coors, of course). I certainly did my share of Coors, but by the time I had my own kids in the 70's, under-aged drinking was just something we didn't encourage when they reached their teen years. I'm not exactly sure what we did, as we had a bar in our family room, stocked with booze, and beer in the fridge (that would stay there for months), but it was just never a problem for us. We didn't hide the liquor...it was always in plain sight, but wasn't abused. Guess we were just lucky, because I honestly don't think we did anything above-and-beyond to wail against the vices. I remember a Christmas cruise on the Zaandam, and there was a very large family from Britain, that included a number of under 21-year olds. One of the young men - who was 20 - tried time and again to get drinks from the bars, and was consistently refused. He was NOT happy, because HIS legal drinking age was 18, and he let the bartenders know it. They never batted an eyelash...they just refused to serve him. This gave me a lot of respect for HAL (among other things).

imsulin-

Sounds like you grew up pretty close to us - good ol' Jeffco Colorado. Yes, King Soopers still sells the 3.2% beer - so do all the other markets - I'm surprised they've kept the 3.2% thing going all these years! Back in my DH's day - you could drink at the 3.2 bars and buy 3.2 at the age of 18. The liquor stores here are still closed here on Sundays, really odd for me, I grew up in So Cal, seemed like they were always open! In California, the drugstores and supermarkets all sold hard liquor too. :)

[cruise freak]

The only problem I ever had with underage kids drinking was on Princess. Their were 400 children on board and I don't believe any were supervised. They were drunk in the disco on a nightly basis. We complained and nothing was done. It was truly my cruise from hell not just the kids but everything else that happened on my 25th anniversary. I now will never sail Princess again.

[gizmo]

I was on a cruise where there were 2 girls who got served every night in the Crow's Nest. There was no way either of them were 21. They were well behaved and spent most of the time dancing but they were getting served alchocolic beverages at the bar.

[imsulin]

Ekerr19 - ask your DH if he remembers "Shakey's" in Cherry Creek. THE place to hang out for 3.2% beer in 1964!! Oh....and we routinely did a "tour" of the Coors Brewery on Friday nights because of the open bar in the Visitor's Lounge. Those really were the good old days! I turned 18 early in my senior year, and suddenly became very "popular"........!

[ekerr19]

Ekerr19 - ask your DH if he remembers "Shakey's" in Cherry Creek. THE place to hang out for 3.2% beer in 1964!! Oh....and we routinely did a "tour" of the Coors Brewery on Friday nights because of the open bar in the Visitor's Lounge. Those really were the good old days! I turned 18 early in my senior year, and suddenly became very "popular"........!

I will ask him, but in 1964, he was only three years old. :)

I heard about the open bar at Coors. A friend of ours retired from Coors, he said they used to be able to drink beer while they were at work! and he was a machine operator, yikes! They stopped doing that about 10 years ago, though.

My DH was 18 all through his senior year - he was very popular too! It is amazing how many people know your age once you are old enough to purchase liquor legally... :)

[fb0075]

As I just posted on the other thread---I PERSONALLY complained to Asst CD and she went up to a group of 13-16 yr olds in disco with drinks in their hands---she came back and said parents had given them permission and buying them drinks!! One 14 yr old was so drunk that another asst CD yelled at him when he said some crude remarks!!
FRANK

[aebalc]

I am not concerned about anyone getting served an alcoholic beverage regardless of age what bothers me is that they continue to serve people cocktails who are obviously drunk. I know that this is illegeal where I live but it is common on the ships.(at least that I have seen)

[teencruiser18]

Recently on the Zuiderdam, my 18 year old brother was served alcohol by the bartender, and my parents had no idea; they were mad as h*** when they saw the bar bill and the charges on his card. I know that there were several 15 year olds drinking, especially the last night, but I don't know how they got the alcohol.
Kerry

[Deltala]

My family cruised on the Zui. in Jan. 2003. My almost 21 yo son tried, but was not able to purchase alcohol. When his card was scanned, he was rejected as being underaged. We had discussed this in advance, and gave him permission to have 2 drinks a day, so he was very disappointed. I was told (incorrectly) that we could go to the front desk and get the restriction lifted. The only way he got his drink was when we placed the order, and handed it over to him.

[Nasmas]

The problem I see here is the teens are with parents or a guardian supposedly, where are these people when all the drinking is taking place? Teens have always drank and always will, we did it but not within miles of our parents. We don't usually cruise when there will be a lot of children but we messed up one year and went during spring break. What in the world were we thinking? But, I saw over & over again, teens trying to buy liquor at the bars and being refused everytime. I think if they were getting it, the parents were giving it to them. But, as far as alcohol related incidents on the ship, I've never seen one. But, in other places, its not only the kids causing the problems. Some people just shouldn't drink. I dont' think the problem gets any better as they get older. A rogue teen drinker is probably going to be a rogue adult drinker.