Buying Jewelry

[MDL1771]

I will be traveling on the Zuiderdam during the first week in October. I wanted to purchase a nice ring on the trip. Does anyone have any recommendations on where I should purchase it. Is there a jewelry shop on the ship? I will traveling to Key West, Cozumel, Grand Caymen and Half Moon Cay. I don't want to spend an excessive amount of money but would like something nice. Also, does any place take credit cards??

Thanks for the help.:)

[Ziggy7]

I will be traveling on the Zuiderdam during the first week in October. I wanted to purchase a nice ring on the trip. Does anyone have any recommendations on where I should purchase it. Is there a jewelry shop on the ship? I will traveling to Key West, Cozumel, Grand Caymen and Half Moon Cay. I don't want to spend an excessive amount of money but would like something nice. Also, does any place take credit cards??

Thanks for the help.:)
There is a shopping guy onboard (Chris) who will have sessions to tell you the best places to shop for jewery at each port, maps encluded, and yes the ship also has some good deals too. All places that are recommended by the ship take credit cards, most places limit it to a $40.00 min purchase though.

[doone]

I agree, go to the port talks, those people can be a wealth of information. I have always enjoyed shopping for jewelry at the Columbian Emerald stores. They are located all through the caribbean. They are higher priced than some stores, but I have always gotten home and had my jeweler appraise my pieces, they have always been appraised way over and above what I paid.

Hope this helps.

[peaches from georgia]

The 'recommendation' by HAL of certain port merchants means nothing other than someone is getting a cut or other renumeration for the recommendation, IMO. (Sorry if this is offensive to some, but I have learned the hard way that there is nothing sacrosanct about a HAL recommendation, so there is no need to flame me.)

I purchased a very expensive (4 figures) ring in Cozumel at Diamonds International this past December. DI has shops all over the Caribbean and is a HAL recommended jewelry chain. It is not like I made my jewelry purchase at an obscure merchant in some back alley. I have NEVER purchased anything this expensive other than on a HAL ship itself and made the mistake of my life.

You get a 30 day guarantee with a HAL recommended shop. My ring is not something that you would ever wear everyday and within the 30 days I had only worn it once or twice and all seemed fine. Within a few months, however, I noticed that 6 of the 15 mother-of-pearl chips in my ring were gone. The missing gemstones were all on either side of the ring where the ring would touch my adjacent fingers, not on the top where I might have hit the ring on something and as I said I had only worn it a few times. Obviously the setting of stones into the gold was defective.

I immediately contacted HAL and they were very sympathetic and felt the HAL merchant recommendation should have some validity in such an extreme case as this, even though the 30 days had passed. However, HAL itself does not deal directly with the recommended merchants; there is another intermediary company I was told to contact, which I did. The answer I got was 'too bad, lady, you bought it, you own it, goodbye'.

I, of course, learned a lesson and will never make the mistake again of making a purchase anything off-ship thinking HAL is giving me protection. And yes, I know the guarantee is only 30 days and this was over the time period; however even HAL agreed that I have a legitimate complaint that this ring is defective. Unfortunately, I have no recourse, other than standing at the door of DI in Cozumel next time I am there, showing my ring to other pax who may be thinking of shopping there. ;)

[doone]

Oh Peaches, that's awful, I am sorry that happened to you, but I also agree, that guarantee thing is nothing more than HAL getting a kick back of what is sold by the stores they recommend. So far, I have had good luck at Columbian Emerald stores, but there is always a first time.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We have always known that the stores recomended by the ships do get a cut. Unforunately, new cruisers aren't aware of that.

When we first started o cruise, jewelery in the Caribbean was a good bargain. We bought a couple of pieces from a non-recommended shop - also knew the owner as he had previously lived in this area. We were taken.

But as the years have passed we have seen the prices on jewelery in out stores just as good, if not better, than in the Caribbean - especially when there are sales.

So sorry, peaches from georgia, that DI weren't nice to you. Hope others read your story and don't buy there.

[peaches from georgia]

I am anything but naive and being an experienced cruiser was aware of, shall we say, the 'gratuity' system between the ships and the recommended merchants. We never buy anything other than maybe a couple of T-shirts or bottles of vanilla from port merchants, which is why my DH was so astounded when he came back from golf in Cozumel that I had done this because it was so totally out of character - not mad, just shocked! And I hadn't even had a marguerita!

I'm not at all surprised that DI didn't do anything for me. But I am terribly disappointed that HAL itself does not deal with the merchants and that there is another company that HAL designates to submit claims/appeals to the recommended vendors and that I was so easily kissed off by this company, even when the HAL rep said she felt I had a legitimate claim.

Live and learn. I said nothing on CC when this occured, but since the topic came up today I hope that my experience may help others make a buying decision.

[gizmo]

Peaches,

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with DI.

Every now and then I read a complaint about defect jewelry. Seems like 90% of the complaints are about DI.

[peaches from georgia]

From now on, gizmo, I will only cruise with you to take care of me! :D

Maybe I should also go to the Port Shopping Talk before each port on my next cruise and show the crowd my ring when the ship's shopping guy recommends DI? He might just quickly get me some satisfaction at the DI in the next port just to get rid of me! :D

[lknick]

One minor thing to remember is that jewelry purchased in the Carribean [except US possessions] has a different standard of measurement than those purchased in the US.

In other words, a karet is not a karet, an E clarity is not an E clarity.

[elmorejj]

Peaches, so sorry for your experience and the shoddy way the complaint was handled. On many many cruises I have ran into pax who have had similar experiences. My daughter once bought a diamond cross, that within 3 months and 2 or 3 wearings had one of the stones "disapear". Another relative bought a gold coin ring in Aruba at a recomended store and the ring broke, luckily, it was within the first year....which used to be the guarantee period..and it was replaced.
A dear friend of ours, a jeweller and certified gemologist, cruised with us on one cruise, he had his loupe with him and some of the stores got really mad when he checked the jewellry. He said so many of the stones he looked at were badly flawed. I guess it is a case of Buyer beware, but it is such a shame that we are being duped, both by the stores and by the cruise :cool: lines......jean

[gizmo]

Any time Peaches!

I have bought lots of jewelry in the Caribbean and I have been lucky so far.

[Orcrone]

DW works retail and said to me last week, "I don't want to spend any time shopping on our cruise".

[bepsf]

If buying jewelry on land is such a bad deal - has anyone had good or bad experiences by purchasing from the jewelers aboard ship? Does HAL back up items purchased in their shops (and I don't mean "Miles of Gold" or other costume jewelry)

My pal bought a Diamond and Sapphire ring for himself on the Oosterdam - seemed like a good price and nothing's fallen out yet.

[lknick]

A dear friend of ours, a jeweller and certified gemologist...[and] He said so many of the stones he looked at were badly flawed. Stones with flaws are common. That is why there is a grading system. So, in my mind, no fraud was committed as you described the situation. And that's where the grading system comes into play.

The grading system in the US is more strengent than that in the Carribean and less strengent than that in Belgium.

I guess it is a case of Buyer beware, but it is such a shame that we are being duped, both by the stores and by the cruise lines.The first part of your statement is true...you gotta know what you're doing. I find the second part to point fingers which may not warrant pointing. Somehow, the word duped makes me believe you see a conspiracy afoot.

[dakrewser]

WE did buy some lovely jewelry when we were berthed in Cozumel, but it was a government run native crafts shop in Chichen Itza. WE've always found the <jewel> International (Diamonds, Emeralds, Zirconia, whatever) to be low quality and overpriced.

I'm told Grand Cayman has excellent shopping (we didn't stop to look when we were there) but you need to do some research before going.

[ekerr19]

Peaches-

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience with DI. :(

I too, have had an unpleasant experience with them, but it was the St. Thomas store (recommended by the HAL port & shopping guide). The tanzanite tennis bracelet we purchased turned out to contain very little real tanzanite...

We have purchased a few small pieces from the shops on board and found them to be quite nice, usually a decent bargain. However, IMO, it is important to know what you are shopping for, and know the pricing structure for the item you are looking to purchase.

I will no longer shop for jewelry in the Caribbean (or on any future cruise vacation) due to my first-hand, bad experience. We have found our local jeweler is able to obtain a good selection of what we want, even specific pieces - plus, we know we can trust them.

I browsed jewelry at DI in St. Maarten while DH was looking at something else. I asked the price for a specific ring - it took the salesgirl about 10 minutes with her calculator to come up the the "price" - which speaks volumes to me - if it takes that long to tell someone the price, it is probably no deal!

[trubey]

One minor thing to remember is that jewelry purchased in the Carribean [except US possessions] has a different standard of measurement than those purchased in the US.

In other words, a karet is not a karet, an E clarity is not an E clarity.Sorry but this is misinformation. Gold karat is based on a system of pure-gold-parts-per 24-parts. 14karat gold is 58.333% gold by weight, 10 karat is 41.666%, 18 karat is 75.000%, etc., and is world-standard with very strict regulation both by governments and jewelers' trade organizations..

Any legitimate quality-marked jewelry is either marked in karat number or percentage, i.e. 750, 585, 935, etc.

HGE means, 'heavy gold electroplate', in other words, fake.

GF means gold-filled, where there is a layer of karat gold over a base-metal. For instance, 1/20 12k means that the piece is 1/20th gold of 12 karats.

Platinum is either marked 'plat' for platinum over 95% pure, usually European, or the American standard, 10% irid(ium) plat(inum). Sometimes it will be '900' or '950'.

Sterling silver is 93% silver, with 1/2% allowed for solders, etc. Often it is marked '925'. 600 (60% Silver) is coin silver, sometimes marked 'pure coin' and will turn you green

'E' is a diamond color, not a clarity. The system starts a 'D' for colorless down through about 'M' for heavily yellow, but not yellow enough to be 'Canary" or 'fancy' color. It is a COMPARATIVE color judged against a known standard by a certified gemologist. If you can see that a diamond is yellow, it's probably about a 'J' or lower.

Clarity is:
F or IF - flawless or internally flawless
VVS1 &VVS2 - difficult for a trained observer find with 10x magnification
VS1 & VS2 - easy to find for a trained observer with 10x
SI1&SI2 - obvious with 10x
I1 & I2 - visible to the naked eye
I3 - rejection

V = very, S= slightly, I = included

Weight of stones is in carats and points, 100 points to one carat, 156 carats to the troy ounce of 31.1 grams; about 5.01 grams.

These are also world standards. The differences in clarity or color, here or there, are in the honesty of the salesman. Store appraisals often don't count for much.

Lane Kimball Trubey
Goldsmith & Platinum jeweler, retired

[sail7seas]

If you have charged your purchase on AmEx you have a buyer's guarantee. You could have written/called AmEx, reported the situation, they would have contacted the jeweler. You would return the article and they would credit your account.


My husband bought a cigarette lighter years ago in Nassau. We were home about 2 months when it stopped working for no apparent reason my DH was aware of. He had not dropped or damaged it in any way. He conacted AmEx and they arranged for him to return it and get a full credit. That is exactly what happened.

[ekerr19]

If you have charged your purchase on AmEx you have a buyer's guarantee. You could have written/called AmEx, reported the situation, they would have contacted the jeweler. You would return the article and they would credit your account.


My husband bought a cigarette lighter years ago in Nassau. We were home about 2 months when it stopped working for no apparent reason my DH was aware of. He had not dropped or damaged it in any way. He conacted AmEx and they arranged for him to return it and get a full credit. That is exactly what happened.

Sail-

It was purchased using Platinum Amex, however we had the item about three years before we found out. Amex was most sympathetic, said we could try to pursue it - we opted against it. Our jeweler replaced the stones for us - gave us a fantastic deal - we chocked it up to a lesson well learned. :)

[ekerr19]

Sorry but this is misinformation. Gold karat is based on a system of pure-gold-parts-per 24-parts. 14karat gold is 58.333% gold by weight, 10 karat is 41.666%, 18 karat is 75.000%, etc., and is world-standard with very strict regulation both by governments and jewelers' trade organizations..

Any legitimate quality-marked jewelry is either marked in karat number or percentage, i.e. 750, 585, 935, etc.

HGE means, 'heavy gold electroplate', in other words, fake.

GF means gold-filled, where there is a layer of karat gold over a base-metal. For instance, 1/20 12k means that the piece is 1/20th gold of 12 karats.

Platinum is either marked 'plat' for platinum over 95% pure, usually European, or the American standard, 10% irid(ium) plat(inum). Sometimes it will be '900' or '950'.

Sterling silver is 93% silver, with 1/2% allowed for solders, etc. Often it is marked '925'. 600 (60% Silver) is coin silver, sometimes marked 'pure coin' and will turn you green

'E' is a diamond color, not a clarity. The system starts a 'D' for colorless down through about 'M' for heavily yellow, but not yellow enough to be 'Canary" or 'fancy' color. It is a COMPARATIVE color judged against a known standard by a certified gemologist. If you can see that a diamond is yellow, it's probably about a 'J' or lower.

Clarity is:
F or IF - flawless or internally flawless
VVS1 &VVS2 - difficult for a trained observer find with 10x magnification
VS1 & VS2 - easy to find for a trained observer with 10x
SI1&SI2 - obvious with 10x
I1 & I2 - visible to the naked eye
I3 - rejection

V = very, S= slightly, I = included

Weight of stones is in carats and points, 100 points to one carat, 156 carats to the troy ounce of 31.1 grams; about 5.01 grams.

These are also world standards. The differences in clarity or color, here or there, are in the honesty of the salesman. Store appraisals often don't count for much.

Lane Kimball Trubey
Goldsmith & Platinum jeweler, retired

trubey-

Thank you for clarifying this. Many people are unaware and this is most helpful. :)

[Tvisitor]

I bought a diamond for my wife in St. Thomas once (her idea). It turned out to be a "fish-eye" (shallow cut), and it was mis-graded by two grades. I was able to collect on the guarantee, and get the state-side affiliate of the island jeweler to take it back (yes, the island jeweler was really owned by a New York diamond company). However, I had to pay an independent jewelry appraiser to examine the diamond and issue his report (my cost, of course), and I had to pay for shipment (my cost, of course).


BTW, if the diamond had just been a bad cut, and not also mis-graded, I would have been stuck with it; and if it had been only one grade off instead of two, I would have been stuck with it.

I would not buy jewelry for my wife in the Carribean again.

[ekerr19]

If buying jewelry on land is such a bad deal - has anyone had good or bad experiences by purchasing from the jewelers aboard ship? Does HAL back up items purchased in their shops (and I don't mean "Miles of Gold" or other costume jewelry)

My pal bought a Diamond and Sapphire ring for himself on the Oosterdam - seemed like a good price and nothing's fallen out yet.

Brian-

We have been quite pleased with the jewelry we've bought in the shops on board. We have purchased earrings on several occasions, two watches, a pendant and some pearls. All have been looked over by our jeweler here at home, and we are pleased with the prices we paid. :)

Hope this helps reassure you a bit...

[FoxyTerrier]

My father bought my mother some really pretty pearls at Little Switzerland in St. Thomas. They had long strands of pearls by color and size and they hand knotted them for him in about an hour. This was close to 20 years ago and so far they are still beautiful, but not of the same quaility as a strand she got from Japan some years later.

We stopped in Little Switzerland in Georgetown Grand Caymen and also in Alaska - the items seemed very nice, but not necessarily a great deal. I did buy a Swarovski crystal Fox Terrier from them in Alaska and on this trip to Europe I saw it for more money.

[jazzsea]

I bought a diamond tennis bracelet in Cozumel. When I got home I had it appraised for insurance purposes. The bracelet appraised for about half of what I paid for it. However, the bracelet was not damaged or broken in any way. I called the HAL "Shops on Board" people in Ft. Lauderdale and then faxed them copies of the original appraisal and sales receipt and the new appraisal. They refused to take the bracelet back even though I was within the 30 day purchase window. I was furious and contacted my credit card company. No help from them, either. (Not Amex).

Now I purchase only from Columbian Emeralds or Little Switzerland. Both of these stores stand behind their merchandise and will always give you credit toward another item. I have also never had a problem with A. H. Riise in St. Thomas.

[ryansmemom]

I guess I have been lucky. I have a jeweler I have been purchasing jewelery from in St Thomas for about 10 years. He was originally a ship recommended jeweler and still is. I have built up a relationship with him and my purchases have always been verified by my GIA certified jeweler here in the States. He has helped me hunt down peices of designer jewelery that he does not sell. I feel very fortunate to have found him.

I also had a good experience with DI. It may have been because it was for a large stone and the shopping person from the ship accompanied me to the store. The quality and value of the stone were verified by my GIA certified jeweler. (This particular jeweler is an expert witness in jewelery fraud cases.) I have since "upgraded" the stone, again in the presence of the shopping person from the ship, and also purchased a pair of earrings. I don't understand why my experience was good when others have had such negative experiences. It may be the presence of the shopping person from the ship for that first purchase that was the key.

I used to buy some things at Little Switzerland. I bought pearls for my daughter when she got married. I was happy with them. They were nice cultured pearls. I also bought several Lladro figurines. The salespeople were very nice, even remembering me and what I had bought in years gone by. Then several years ago, there was a change in attitude. They were not friendly and seemed impatient if you were not buying something quickly. I mentioned this to my jeweler and he told me others had noticed a difference as well. On my next cruise to St Thomas I noticed they were no longer on the recommended list.

Just one more item. Last year I bought a ring from Bernard Passman. I really like it very much. The man is an artist. His work is stunning. He has stores in St Thomas and Grand Cayman as well as other locations.

If anyone wants to know the name of my St Thomas jeweler please email me at:

Ryansmemom@aol.com

Linda :)

[lknick]

Originally Posted by lknick
In other words, a caret is not a caret, an E clarity is not an E clarity.Originally Posted by trubey
Sorry this is misinformation.This is simplified information, as supported by the American Gemological Association. In the Caribbean, Holloway standards, not AGA, are followed. For this reason and others, the AGA discourages purchases of gem stones from the Caribbean.

The difference in a VVSI and VSI is difficult to detect. In the Caribbean, what a US member of AGA would call a VVSI, a Caribbean store would call a VSI [one grade up].

And weight can also vary.

This is why a US appraisal will be less than paid in the Carribean. [See previous post]

For technical stuff, See http://www.gemappraisers.com/agahca.htm

BTW, there is no grading standard for pearls except for mm.

[ryansmemom]

Sorry, I need to make a correction. My jeweler is certified by the

American Gemological Association (AGA).

I did get GIA certificates for my diamonds purchased at DI.


Linda

:o

[Oink]

:) Hi Cruisers! I find this thread fascinating, especially since I've worked in this field since 1985. Most of what I've read below are common mis-conceptions and personal experiences. The one and only 100% factual post was the one from trubey.

Regarding the port lecturers (shopping talks), they are paid to push certain stores and products. They are hired by an outside company (not the cruiselines) who get a handsome fee for their "promotional services". If a Caribbean merchant chooses not to sign the contract for their service, then they are left out of the talks and taken off the recommended list and map. Besides the fee charged for signing the contract, merchants also have to pay the promotion company a % of every dollar rung through the register. Have you ever noticed how the sales people always ask which ship you are from? As if all of this isn't enough of a scam, then the port lecturers take kick backs and jewelry for being extra "enthusiastic" for certain retailers. It's legal blackmail. Unfortuantely, the average cruiseship passenger has no idea that any of this is going on. They assume (mistakenly) that if it's on the recommended list it must be good, and if it's not recommended it must be sleazy. This couldn't be further from the truth. Little Switzerland took themselves off the promotional service company after Tiffany bought them about 1-1/2 years ago. Colombian Emeralds has been on and off over the past few years. Yet I think most of you agree that they are both outstanding retailers in the Caribbean market.

Figure out what you are looking for before your cruise. Shop your local jewelry stores, department stores, Costco, internet etc before your trip so you have an idea of prices and styles that are right for you. If you find something you like down island, ask about their return policy. Ask if they have a US service center and/or and 800 customer service number. For diamond jewelry, and higher end color pieces, ask if you get a written appraisal and/or an IGI or GIA certificate. For watches be sure you are given the factory warranty before you leave the store. There are reputable jewelers in the Caribbean just like in the states. Unfortunately there are the opposite in every corner of the world as well. Hope this helps! Oink! :)

[lknick]

The difference in a VVSI and VSI is difficult to detect. In the Caribbean, what a US member of AGA would call a VVSI, a Caribbean store would call a VSI [one grade up].Sorry, got it backwards. Got it right the first time around, looked at it, thought it was wrong, and changed it. Should leave well enough alone.

[lknick]

Not having been in the 'field' [whatever that is] and only knowing what I know from studying the topic and personal experience, my opinion is only buy travel jewelry [high valued knock-offs] in the Caribbean.

The only reason in my mind to purchase 'real' stuff is if you fall in love with the design. But you will get no bargains and maybe not even the quality.

[torpeedo]

We purchased a beautiful Tanzanite and diamond ring onboard the Rotterdam a couple of years ago.. A special representative of the very well known jewelry company was onboard. Will not name the company. Any event we purchased a ring in the mid four figure range.. We did not take it off the ship due to size. It was to be sent to the factory to be sized and sent to us. We recieved A ring about a month later and it was not the same ring we purchased.. We knew that it was not the same ring because it was white gold and the ring we purchased was yellow and white gold, two tone. We returned it immediately via certified mail. Called HAL and they referred us to the company that runs the stores, starboard something or other. Starboard refused to help us, directing us to the Jewelry company. We called the jewelry company in NY and after multiple calls and messages left they told us this could not happen and the ring they sent us was the ring we purchased. The only way we could prove this was the receipt had the exact description. We faxed the receipt that specified the dimensions and color of the ring which clearly stated white and yellow gold. Fortunately we paid by credit card and the payment had not come due. We called the credit card company and explained everything, faxing the info. They contacted the manufacturer and after confirming the ring was returned, they did not pay the manufacturer and the manufacturer did not contest. PS the Manufacturer was very unresponsive! HAL was totally out of this, even though purchased onboard.. To this day we still have no idea how this mix up happened. We believed we were purchasing a one of a kind ring.
So, we do our jewelry buying in the good old USA.

[trubey]

This is simplified information, as supported by the American Gemological Association. In the Caribbean, Holloway standards, not AGA, are followed. For this reason and others, the AGA discourages purchases of gem stones from the Caribbean.

The difference in a VVSI and VSI is difficult to detect. In the Caribbean, what a US member of AGA would call a VVSI, a Caribbean store would call a VSI [one grade up].

And weight can also vary.

This is why a US appraisal will be less than paid in the Carribean. [See previous post]

For technical stuff, See http://www.gemappraisers.com/agahca.htm

BTW, there is no grading standard for pearls except for mm.
Iknick, please. I was a jeweler and goldsmith/platinum jeweler for almost 35 years. I KNOW what I'm talking about.

The only reason an appraisal from a store would differ from that of a court certified GIA Graduate Gemologist would be the difference between falsehood and truth. I maintained a cordial, though arm's length, relationship with the appraiser I recommended to my clients. I have met him exactly ONCE in my life.

An appraisal is NOT an estimate of value!!! It is an accurate description of the object in question which can then be correlated with current prices for similar goods, thereby establishing a fair valuation for wholesale, retail, or insurance purposes.

Yeah, AGA and EGL and all those are great folks I'm sure, but nobody pays much attention to them.

Regarding pearls, they are sold in the trade by weight as calculated in 'momme' (mummy), 3.75 grams. It can take years to grade enough examples to assort a strand perfectly matched in color, lustre, depth, iridescence, concentricity, surface defects . . . and all the other ways pearls are graded.

LKT

[Oink]

:) Bravo Trubey! You are the only sensible and knowlegeable person posting on this thread. Thanks! By the way lknick, the "field" I referred to in my previous post was the jewelry field.....you know, the subject this thread is all about. :rolleyes: Oink! :)

[lknick]

Iknick, please. I was a jeweler and goldsmith/platinum jeweler for almost 35 years. I KNOW what I'm talking about.

The only reason an appraisal from a store would differ from that of a court certified GIA Graduate Gemologist would be the difference between falsehood and truth.Then explain this...I personally bought a diamond ring [1.67c, SI1, F, Old Mine] at a reputable jeweler in Naples FL for $K7. It was appraised by an independent gemologist in New York City at $k14.2.

I stand on my previous post. There are few bargains in the Caribbean when it comes to jewelry so don't expect them. There may be a higher chance of misrepresentation.

BTW, I never represented myself as a jeweler. But not being a jeweler does not make me per se completely ignorant of what to look for in jewelry. I have been told by an AGA member that the standards in the Carribean are different and I have no reason to believe he is making it up.

[dakrewser]

Then explain this...I personally bought a diamond ring [1.67c, SI1, F, Old Mine] at a reputable jeweler in Naples FL for $K7. It was appraised by an independent gemologist in New York City at $k14.2.
What kind of appraisal was it - insurance, or resale?

BTW, I never represented myself as a jeweler. But not being a jeweler does not make me per se completely ignorant of what to look for in jewelry.
No, it doesn't. But there's a lot of room between "not ignorant" and "practising jeweler" :)

[lknick]

What kind of appraisal was it - insurance, or resale? Insurance. But the value made no difference in my case as I purchase 'replacement' insurance which call for a complete description, drawings and photos.

No, it doesn't. But there's a lot of room between "not ignorant" and "practising [sic] jeweler" Granted, just there is a lot of difference between a free lancer and a published novelist. But neither is without common sense.

I don't understand this huffing and puffing about professional credentials. There must be something going on here as too many people have returned from the Caribbean after purchasing jewelry to find it was not as represented or not of superior workmanship. The reason I have heard is different standards...which makes sense...or just plain fraud which I prefer not to believe.

[sail7seas]

I absolutely agree that A.H. Riise in St. Thomas is among the most reliable/dependable of all the stores throughout the Caribbean. They return telephone calls, they answer faxes, they assist with necessary repairs.......in short, they are responsive after the sale is complete unlike a great many other stores.


I recommend them and feel confident shopping there and we have shopped in a huge number of stores all over the place.

[lknick]

For the best jewelry in St Thomas, try 'Travel Jewelry.' It down one of the alleys off the main high street.

It's all knock-off, artificial but they use the better Russian zircons. Unless you travel with a loop you cannot tell the difference. My lady has a number of pieces which have been admired more than once.

It is not costume jewelry so don't expect $10 stuff. It runs from $200 - $500.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Not that my 2 cents counts much for anything but I personally don't care for Diamonds International. I have never bought anything from them but I have yet to trust any of the sales people we have talked to in their stores. I just felt they were looking to rip me off. The jewelery I have looked at was never of great quality and forget the Tanzanites they were of very cheap quality. So far I have never been impress with any of the recommended jewelery stores by the ships. This past May in Ketchikan we purchase a 3 ct tanzanite and diamond ring set in 18k. We paid about $900. This store had only been opened a couple of weeks and had never been in Alaska before. I had picked out the stone and the setting and they set it before we left. Not knowing for sure if we got ripped off but I knew I liked what I bought. Well, about a month ago I needed to get my Wedding ring appraised so I had the certifed appraiser look at the tanzanite. He told me it was a very nice stone, resale value would be about $1800.00 and insurance value would be about $3500.00 They actually guessed I paid at least $1500 I think the key is to inspect very carefully what you are purchasing.
Last year when we were in St Thomas we came very close to upgrading my diamond in my wedding ring but after thinking it over we thought we better wait. Well, I am glad we did we purchased a much nicer, laser engraved stone for less money. I just think it is safer to buy expensive jewelery at home.

[dakrewser]

Insurance. But the value made no difference in my case as I purchase 'replacement' insurance which call for a complete description, drawings and photos.
But insurance value is always higher than resale value..

Granted, just there is a lot of difference between a free lancer and a published novelist. But neither is without common sense.
um, every novelist I know (published or not) is a free-lancer.....

I don't understand this huffing and puffing about professional credentials. There must be something going on here as too many people have returned from the Caribbean after purchasing jewelry to find it was not as represented or not of superior workmanship. The reason I have heard is different standards...which makes sense...or just plain fraud which I prefer not to believe.
No fraud, just not particularly great quality. The same can be said about the T-shirts or other gimcracks sold around the ports.

[swannie]

I know next to nothing about jewelry, but I have to back up what's been said by a lot of people here. In Ketchikan about a week ago, I went to one of the "recommended" stores, and was given the car salesman routine. "Which piece do you LOVE? Which one are you in love with? I'll see what I can do for you." I pointed to a piece, and she showed me a price that was still out of the price range I had asked for.
Then we went down the street to a little shop around the corner. I told them what I was looking for and how much money I wanted to spend and they very sweetly and patiently helped me find exactly what I wanted, no pressure at all, no attempt to get me to go over my limit. I don't know about the actual value of what I bought, but I'm very happy with it and the people in the store.

[trubey]

[QUOTE=lknick]Then explain this...I personally bought a diamond ring [1.67c, SI1, F, Old Mine] at a reputable jeweler in Naples FL for $K7. It was appraised by an independent gemologist in New York City at $k14.2.

No problem. firstly, I doubt you have an 'old mine' cut. They're actually rather uncommon, almost always cut from single tetrahedral crystals and cut to retain as much weight as possible. They're usually rounded off asymmetrical rectangles, more or less, with very high crowns, small tables and rounded pavilions (the crown is the top part, the pavilion the part below the girdle). I've never seen one as large as 1.67 carats.

What you have is probably what is known as an "earlier modern brilliant", a cut designed by a wonderful gemologist named Tokolsky just before 1900. He and Asscher were the most famous cut-designers that ever lived. These stones were cut until about, say, 1920.

They're almost always bruted (made round, more or less) and have a highISH crown and a roundISH pavilion, and a slightly faceted ('open') culet. The culet is the point on the bottom.

Secondly, your cost and 'appraisal': Generally, nobody in their right mind would pay $4200 per carat for an old cut. My tops wold be about $1200, if it were a pretty stone. Otherwise I'd leave it to a pawnbroker. There is a lot of risk and heavy weight loss, not to mention cost, to remake them into modern saleable stones. It would possibly end up about a carat, or so. They are sold on POTENTIAL remade weight, not weight as-is.

The appraisal is a bit more sticky. It obviously was NOT a GIA certificate, because they NEVER quote prices, for ANYTHING.

Did your appraiser work for a flat rate, or a percentage (hehe nudge, nudge)?

So in effect, you're paying insurance on a stone you think is worth $14000 which your insurance company would doubtless be able to replace from a source in the secondary market for about $1200 per carat, and perhaps less.

Yeah, as I said, AGA people are very nice folks, I'm sure. AGA is an organization of better-quality, more professional retail jewelry stores and salesmen. Their merchandise, to my knowledge, is of good quality and not misrepresented to the customer. They are not discounters or off-price stores.
Very respectable.

This is a wonderful, informative book you might like if you're actually interested in diamonds:

"Diamonds" by Eric F. Bruton (N.A.G. Press, 1978)

LKT

[Giorgi-one]

I do not believe that you get any really great deals in the caribbean any more. I would suggest that you buy your ring on SHOPNBC. Their prices are great, you can return for full credit and you can pay in four installments with not interest.

[Orcrone]

This thread has convinced me of one thing. I'm going to avoid the jewelry stores and lay on the beach or go scuba diving.;)

[grandma bev]

Some very good info in this thread. I prefer to look for good buys on my own. No need to avoid buying jewelry in the Caribbean. There are some very reputable stores mentioned such as Colombian Emeralds, etc.

H. Stern is another high quality, old, dependable one. I am partial to the artful way they create and do their settings. I once bought a very large gemstone ring from them, arrived home, and noticed a crack in the stone. H. Stern bent over backwards to make it right. They used to allow you to wear your purchase, then bring it back on your next trip and trade for something new. Perhaps that policy is still in effect. Their stores are everywhere.

The moral: buyer beware. But most importantly, do your homework and research.

A tip: It seems efffective to say, "I don't have much time, please tell me what is the lowest price you can give me for this item". That hasn't failed me yet!

[trubey]

It's all knock-off, artificial but they use the better Russian zircons. Unless you travel with a loop you cannot tell the difference.
It's really interesting how the word 'Russian' has spread around since I was in the business!

The gossip for years in the industry was that the Russians had learned how to make gem quality synthetic diamonds -- not simulated: real honest-to-Pete-crystallized carbon. They were pretty much only available as 20 pointers (.20 cts, about 3.75 mm diameter rounds) and were expensive as sin. The best part about them is that they were all EXACTLY the same! You could assort them for pave´ or line (tennis) bracelets without having to loupe or measure every one! They sold them through the CSO (Central Selling Organisation, the sales arm of deBeers Consolidated Mines) for hard currencies.

What you called "Zircon" is actually cubic zirconia, which was originally synthesized by a guy in a Detroit suburb called ShelbyTownship. They're cut EVERYWHERE now, but mainly in India and South Asia, I believe. They are more or less expensive depending on cut. They cost about $2 a carat for good cuts for one stone, maybe thirty cents a carat for a bag full.

Yeah, CZs. We always called' em 'Chromium Zucchinis".

Zircon is a naturally-occurring semi-precious stone, a nice soft blue with very high dispersion ('fire').

Yeah, Travel Jewelry is GREAT! Look on the web for the store nearest you!

Lane

"Gimcracks", eh? Good one, Dave.

How about, "A closed mouth gathers no feet"? :)

[lknick]

firstly, I doubt you have an 'old mine' cut. I've never seen one as large as 1.67 carats.And therefore you know what I have.There is a lot of risk and heavy weight loss, not to mention cost, to remake them into modern saleable stones. It would possibly end up about a carat, or so. They are sold on POTENTIAL remade weight, not weight as-is.Maybe I wanted that cut and spent time searching for it. They're hard to find as most have been destroyed.

I would say more...but

[CaribbeanBlue]

Here are a few shopping tips.

1. Research jewelry prices and qualities prior to your trip. There is a LOT of information available on the internet. An informed consumer always comes outahead.

2. Practice haggling prices with your family at home. Dont be shy. You aren't taking advantage or being rude. It's the way it's done here.

3. Here is a tip that REALLY works. Wear a t shirt from the cruise-critic, the Carigem appraisers, travel site boards etc. During the sale let the shop owner know you are vocal on the internet about travel and jewelry. Believe me, when I have a person contact me with a problem with a jewelry purchase and it was discussed online, I print out the info and bring it into the managers office with me. It does carry weight.

4. Make all purchases with a credit card. You can get a discount by paying in cash but if there is a problem and you need a refund it can be a hastle. Our company works closely with the credit card companies prividing the documentation needed. If it's case of buyers remorse theres not a lot that can be done. If the item isn't what was promised or there is a problem with workmanship we can be helpful. In general we just want to be fair all around to everyone.

5. Ask what the return policy is of the company. The policy should be clearly printed out on the reciept. Remember that there is no law regarding returns, but a company that believes in it's merchandise will be confident and offer a return policy.

6. NEVER accept the jewelers appraisal of the item. They may be biased. Insist on documentation from an Independent Appraiser. In St Thomas our office does Independent Appraisals. Carigem has a complete gemological lab staffed with GIA graduate Gemolists and Appraisers. We do not buy or sell jewelry of any kind. By getting your item checked prior to leaving the island all problems can be dealt with then and there. Many shoppers will make the final sale contingent on evaluation of our Gemologist/Appraiser. Any jeweler who states this is not neccesary should cause a red flag to go off.

7. If you have problems in the islands contact the store first. Most of the time it is simple to resolve the problem. A merchant that values customers wants to keep you happy. Most pride themselves on repeat customers year after year. People won't come back if they bought 2nd rate merchandise or were treated badly.

8. If after contacting the store you still have problems
A. get all of your documentation togehter. B. Contact your crerdit card company. C. Contact the Carigem office. D. Send letters to your cruiseline.

9. On a positive note: If you purchased an item, were happy and did well LET PEOPLE KNOW! Over the years we've done documentation for thousands of people who shopped well and got incredible deals. The number of problems was generally low. In most cases the problem was easily resolved with communication and documentation.

CaribbeanBlue
www.Carigem.org

[sail7seas]

Thank you for an excellent, informative post.

I am of the thinking there are not too many bargains left in the Caribbean. It isn't like years ago but still, it is fun to shop while on vacation. As long as you think you have been treated fairly and bought the item because you think it beautiful, then it is very worth the purchase. IMO I imagine that some folks do get a better 'bargain' than others and that is great. But I think one should always bear in mind they will, most likely, never be able to see a piece of jewelry for the price they paid for it.