Should HAL refund money for my reservation?

[sargenet]

On Sunday evening, after considering Carnival and Holland America, I decided to book a 3 day cruise on Holland America. My biggest deciding factor was the evening Children's Program. My son is 4 and I already had day plans that included my son for the 2 port days... I was looking for the best cruise line that offered evening activities from 5-10pm. I wanted to be able to have my son participate while I had some time for a long dinner and to see a show. Since he is 4, I didn't expect him to be up much later that 9pm, especially after a full day of activities.

The Holland America agent (I called them direct) stated that the Children's program opened at 5pm and closed at 10pm. She also stated that the program wasn't open during the day for the 2 port days. Sounded exactly like what I was looking for... a nicer ship than Carnival and the ports I wanted.

She said she had one inside cabin left that would hold our group of 3. I went ahead and booked it. She said since it was so close to the sailing (4/19) I couldn't put a deposit, payment in full was needed. So I paid the $760.

I had additional questions about the children's program, and she said I could get those answers from Ship's Services when they opened the next day (they were closed on Sunday).

I called as soon as they opened the next morning. To my surprise I was told the children's program DID NOT open till 8pm. Wow... not exactly what she told me and certainly not what I was looking for when I made my final decision. The ship service's agent advised me to call reservations immediately since it hadn't even been 24 hours and cancel.

Well.. after 2 supervisors... I was told I could not cancel. Didn't matter that is hadn't even been 24 hours. The "Director of Reservations" made the decision that just because my "dinner plans" were messed up, it didn't count as a valid reason to cancel.... I would lose all my money if I didn't go on the cruise.

They did make offers to pay for "babysitting" but that is not what I was looking for. I wanted a structured kids program, and I didn't want a stranger in my cabin.

I emailed the VP of guest programs. He emailed me back Monday night saying he or one of his senior staff would get back to me..... nothing yet.

Today I disputed the charges on my card and have spent the day seeing if there was a consumer law to back me up on my right to cancel. NO such luck... at least not that I could find.

I really don't want to take this cruise now. I want to switch to Carnival and go on the other cruise we were considering.

Does anyone know of any consumer laws to protect customers in situations like this? Florida has a statute but it seems to refer more to hotels and vacation packages... not cruises. Virginia law allows you to get out of a "contract" you may sign in 3 business days, but not sure if this falls under that. I didn't sign anything. It was more of a purchase.

I think I would have a much better feeling on this if the Holland America staff and management I was dealing with had been a little more understanding. The lead supervisor I spoke with seemed to understand... but I have a feeling the Director called the shots. Oh yeah... the Director doesn't talk to customers.

Any advice? It wasn't like I changed my mind days later... less than 24 hours ..

[6rugrats]

My experience has been that once that final payment has been made, you are past the cut-off date for cancellation, and if you do not take this cruise, you will not receive any of your money back. It doesn't matter if you changed your mind one second after the cut-off date; it's still too late. Without insurance that lets you cancel for any reason, it doesn't matter what your reason is for cancelling - no refund when you do. These policies are clearly stated in cruise contracts. Authorizing a charge is signing a contract.

I honestly think from reading all your posts HAL has really tried to work with you; much more then I've seen from other cruise lines. My advice? Make the best of it and take this cruise; it may turn out better then you think, or walk away from your money and book with Carnival.

And no, I don't think HAL should refund your money.

[sargenet]

The only way Holland has agreed to work with me is providing "in room babysitting". That is in no way, shape or form the same as a children's program, which is in an open area, with accredited staff. Where there are ships camera's/security/other children. This "someone" who is a room stewardess/staff that wants to make a few extra $$$. Does that mean they are qualified and I should trust them alone with my son?

Some people are ok with having a complete stranger come to their room. I am not. And yes, people have mentioned that if we do it late enough he will be asleep, so it won't matter.

6rugrats: Here is something I did not post in the "Family Cruising" posts I started. The 3rd person in my cabin is my sister, and she has stage 4 breast cancer. She gets tired very easily, and doesn't stay up very late at night. Actually we all planned to be back in the cabin by 9:30pm. I was taking her on this cruise to get away for a little while, so that we could have some "sister" time over a nice quiet dinner. I don't see her very often (we live in different states) and she doesn't see my son (her only nephew). She just wants to get away for awhile and a nice little cruise seemed like the right pick for us. She didn't want to go any longer than that. She can't stay in the sun for very long... and just wants to be able to watch the ocean.

HAL is aware of this. The agent that booked me was aware of this. That is why the children's program was so important to me. We have such a limited amount of time to be alone. Are they opening the program earlier? No...do I really think I should ask my sister to stay up even later?

This is just a courtesy.. it is called doing the right thing.

[6rugrats]

Yes, I read about your sister and I understand the difficulty in this situation. I can see how important this trip is for you both. I also sympathize with the total lack of accurate information one obtains from phone agents and from most cruise line web pages.

But again, cruise lines just don't budge much after final payment is made, and I speak from experience.

Another option for you not mentioned. Have you considered having a nice quiet dinner in your room? You can order what is served in the restaurant for room service, if you do it within an hour or so of the opening of the dining room. You could first take your son up to eat in the Lido, and get him settled in the cabin with something he likes (movies?) and then you might get some down time.

Another thing no one ever mentions, is that you can take your room service meals on your trays and eat wherever you like on the ship. We often took our lunch trays out of the Lido and went to eat elsewhere on the ship and a word was never said to us about it. If your sister likes looking at the ocean and the weather is nice, order room service, take her, the food, and your son up on deck to some nice chairs and eat outside. You can eat earlier and he'd probably like it outside better. There aren't many passengers outside during meals, and so what if they don't like it? You have just as many rights as they.

You may meet some staff of Club Hal that may have suggestions for you. Once on the ship, you may find options available that an agent on the phone can't tell you about.

I think you can make this work so everyone has a good time.

[lady_cruiser]

Even though I agree that if you cancelled before 24 hours HAL should have refunded your money. But, at the same time you basically signed a contract by making the final payment. HAL is considered to be one of the finest ships on the high seas. From what I hear it is compared to a 5-star hotel. I have been on Carnival (Sept. 2005), Norwegian (Jan 2007) and Royal Caribbean (Jan 2008). I would give Carnival a 3-star rating (but this is my own personal opinion). A cruise line like HAL will probably have well-trained sitters on staff. I would not be surprised if these sitters aren't even trained in childrens CPR. I know you said you don't care for strangers in your cabin but I would give the sitter a try and bring your sister on this cruise. I have a feeling that you will be glad you did.

I'll keep your sister in my prayers.

[msmayor]

The Holland America agent (I called them direct) stated that the Children's program opened at 5pm and closed at 10pm. She also stated that the program wasn't open during the day for the 2 port days.

I just took a quick peek at Holland America's website, and it would seem to me that based on the information there the agent him/herself really wouldn't have good information anyway. The website states very plainly that "times vary based on age group, number of children on board and staffing.". I take that to mean nothing is set in stone.

If I had seen that statement and was considering booking, I wouldn't take anything the phone agent said as the truth...because that agent really wouldn't be in any position to know how the children's programs would be scheduled. In all honesty...it would seem possible to me that if there were enough children in your son's age group on board and enough demand to open up the Club through the dinner hour you want, it might happen...because "times vary".

[sargenet]

I actually saw that information on their website before I made the reservation. I reviewed the children's programs on HAL/Carnival/RCCl and the each of the ships we were interested in. I read their descriptions (which are all vague) then called each line and spoke to someone to receive detailed information and clarification... especially on their hours of operation.

I truly asked specific questions of the HAl agent AFTER I read everything on the internet that they provided in regards to their program. I saw they had "evening" activities and asked her for the specific times for this cruise. She informed me they opened at 5:00pm all 3 nights but were not going to be open on Sat/Sun during the day since they were in port. She said they would open back up at 5:00pm. She and I discussed the fact that the website said "morning/noon" activites and she said it was not the case with this sailing and suggested I call ship services to confirm the port days since the website stated they would not be open those 2 days... she told me the info on the web is vague because each ship is different. I honestly believed she had access to the detailed info she was providing me.

I guess that is really what bothers me. I, in good faith, really thought I was asking the right questions of the right person. I didn't go through a travel agent because I wanted to get my information directly from the cruise line. If she at any time had said to me "I am not sure of the exact times in the evening", then I wouldn't have booked it. She sounded very knowledgeable.

If they give me my money back.. great... if not .... I will head out on the cruise.

[Jade13]

If they give me my money back.. great... if not .... I will head out on the cruise.

I think you should go and enjoy the cruise.

Btw, we usually purchase HAL's platinum policy and you would have gotten 95% back at 31 days prior to departure and minus the cost of the policy (which would have been $99.00pp based on your cruise price - we buy this for the Med evacuation and there is no pre-existing condition).

Honestly I think you can trust HAL's staff to watch your child but if not it's the only cruise line I have been on where you can order what you what you want in-room 24/7. It's suppose to be during dinner hours for dinner but on the Westerdam they told me any time. Btw, which cruise it this?

[Host Michell]

To the OP, I'm so sorry about your sister's condition, and hope this cruise situation all works out for you. I don't travel with children (as I don't have any) but from reading a zillion posts over the years on the line boards and the family board, HAL seems to be a line that would LIKE to be "family friendly," more and more presents itself as such, but still realizes that its demographic can vary a lot from week to week, especially on the number of kids onboard. I think that's why the website is intentionally vague about Club HAL and the hours, etc.

The poster above me makes a REALLY good point. HAL also has one of the best in-cabin room service menus, and also lets you order from the dining room menu for cabin delivery during dinner hours. Since it's a short cruise, and really intended just for a getaway (from your posts) -- perhaps that would meet your needs if nothing else works out.

Again, I really do hope it works out. As for a refund, I wouldn't hold my breath -- after final payment, with no insurance in place, refunds are very difficult to come by.

[sargenet]

I think you should go and enjoy the cruise.

Btw, we usually purchase HAL's platinum policy and you would have gotten 95% back at 31 days prior to departure and minus the cost of the policy (which would have been $99.00pp based on your cruise price - we buy this for the Med evacuation and there is no pre-existing condition).

Honestly I think you can trust HAL's staff to watch your child but if not it's the only cruise line I have been on where you can order what you what you want in-room 24/7. It's suppose to be during dinner hours for dinner but on the Westerdam they told me any time. Btw, which cruise it this?

This is a 3-Day Westerdam which they are only having on 4/19. We didn't buy the insurance because if my sister couldn't go, then I would still go.. or vice versa. If for some reason I couldn't go with my son, my mom was going to go in my place. We have already invested in our airline tickets too for the cruise. And since we only paid $299 per person (my son was free) we didn't think $99 per person was worth it.

The HAL site shows their cancellation policy. Normally if I did decide to cancel today, I would only lose 50%. But they are saying that their cancel policy doesn't apply to the fare I was given. Now that is a first for me. I have never seen a cruise rate with and without penalty. They told me this was a 'Non-refundable" fare.

[sargenet]

I received a call tonight from the Director of Reservations in regards to my issues mentioned in my email.

I received great news. Holland America is switching their start time on all their ships to 7:00pm for Club Hal. This was based on frequent complaints from customers about the start time. Holland America is also trying to be a more "multi-generational" cruise line.

I guess this was decided last week and the word has not reached all the ships. It starts in a week or so.

Holland America also has promised to allow any "babysitting" to take place in the Club Hal facilities if I want to use it before 7pm.

I am very pleased and am looking forward to my upcoming cruise.

[Host Michell]

I received a call tonight from the Director of Reservations in regards to my issues mentioned in my email.

I received great news. Holland America is switching their start time on all their ships to 7:00pm for Club Hal. This was based on frequent complaints from customers about the start time. Holland America is also trying to be a more "multi-generational" cruise line.

I guess this was decided last week and the word has not reached all the ships. It starts in a week or so.

Holland America also has promised to allow any "babysitting" to take place in the Club Hal facilities if I want to use it before 7pm.

I am very pleased and am looking forward to my upcoming cruise.

That's great news for you (and consistent with what I said above -- HAL wants to be a family friendly cruiseline; they're just still figuring out how!) :)

I hope you, your sister, and your son have a wonderful cruise experience!

[cruiserbryce]

refund aside...I would have waited until the next day to confirm the details with ship services before booking...especially f it was something as high impact as child care

[hammybee]

We have been sailing with out daughter on most cruise lines since she was about age 4. She is now 19.

After an already long day in the pool and HAL club she was ready for bed by 7:00 P.M., back then. It seemed to me that the younger kids really pooped out in the evening. At best, some wanted low key activities and many just dosed off. And of course some were whiney and crabby as can be.

Having an in cabin sitter was really a better option for us as once tucked in, she was down for the night.

[Karysa]

Now it is time for the, "HAL really stepped up and I am looking so forward to my cruise on HAL" thread. Good PR is oh so important for business!
Have an absolutely wonderful cruise with your son and your sister.
All the best,
Karysa

[QueensChick]

This is wonderful news. I hope you have a wonderful cruise with your sister and little boy.

Happy sailing! :)

I received a call tonight from the Director of Reservations in regards to my issues mentioned in my email.

I received great news. Holland America is switching their start time on all their ships to 7:00pm for Club Hal. This was based on frequent complaints from customers about the start time. Holland America is also trying to be a more "multi-generational" cruise line.

I guess this was decided last week and the word has not reached all the ships. It starts in a week or so.

Holland America also has promised to allow any "babysitting" to take place in the Club Hal facilities if I want to use it before 7pm.

I am very pleased and am looking forward to my upcoming cruise.

[Jade13]

I received a call tonight from the Director of Reservations in regards to my issues mentioned in my email.

I received great news. Holland America is switching their start time on all their ships to 7:00pm for Club Hal. This was based on frequent complaints from customers about the start time. Holland America is also trying to be a more "multi-generational" cruise line.

I guess this was decided last week and the word has not reached all the ships. It starts in a week or so.

Holland America also has promised to allow any "babysitting" to take place in the Club Hal facilities if I want to use it before 7pm.

I am very pleased and am looking forward to my upcoming cruise.

That is great news! HAL really does have the best Guest Relations Department that we have experianced on any cruise line. We love the Westerdam and I hope you have a wonderful time. In an inside you will get all the Elemis bath products (including my favorite sharp shower gel), as well as a fruit basket and you can order hot breakfast and stay in your cabin until called on disembarkation day.

I hope you enjoy your cruise. Please report back when you return.

[lady_cruiser]

I am so glad that everything worked out for you. Enjoy your cruise with your sister and young son.

[UtterCaro]

Holland America also has promised to allow any "babysitting" to take place in the Club Hal facilities if I want to use it before 7pm.

I am very pleased and am looking forward to my upcoming cruise.

I just love happy endings. I hope you'll have a marvelous time and write a glowing review. :)

Caro

[winnyd]

I agree with Hammy Bee , A child of 4 should be ready to turn in by 7-8pm so a baby sitter would be more functional than A kids programme at that time of night.

[Zesty Italian]

I'm so glad HAl offered to help. We are sailing on the Westerdam in Oct. for the first time and I felt uneasy reading how they mislead you. I don't understand why emplyees don't know policies OR say they are unsure. I have experienced the same problem. That's why I was so glad to find these boards. Folks know much more than the website or calling an agent. I hope you have a wonderful time and I will keep your sister in prayer.

For future reference Disney has an Awesome kids program! The kids are signed in and out with a password and parents are given a beeper. The hours are 9 AM till I think midnight. That includes all meal times. They feed the kids from the buffet. It also operates on sea days and in ports including their private island. Our kids loved it and we got spoiled. I was so surprised to find out Hal doesn't operate during dinner. Don't know too many kids who want to sit thru a long dinner.

[Desdemona01]

For future reference Disney has an Awesome kids program! The kids are signed in and out with a password and parents are given a beeper. The hours are 9 AM till I think midnight. That includes all meal times. They feed the kids from the buffet. It also operates on sea days and in ports including their private island. Our kids loved it and we got spoiled. I was so surprised to find out Hal doesn't operate during dinner. Don't know too many kids who want to sit thru a long dinner.

There is a significant price difference between Disney and HAL. Also, Disney caters to families with small children so it makes sense for their kids programs to run longer hours. Since there can be as few as 30 or less children on some HAL cruises it's completely understandable that they would offer abbreviated CLub HAL hours.

[May4]

I am so happy for you that you'll be taking the cruise that you hoped for afterall. How wonderful for your sister and your son that you'll have this time together.

[Northshorecruisers]

A little off topic but I have to ask.
What airline allows a 4 year old to fly for free?

[hammybee]

A little off topic but I have to ask.
What airline allows a 4 year old to fly for free?

I am not aware of any. Once they are off your lap, they pay.

[Northshorecruisers]

Last I heard was 2 & under on your lap are free....everyone else pays full fare.

[6rugrats]

A little off topic but I have to ask.
What airline allows a 4 year old to fly for free?

No airline allows a four year old to fly for free.

[jerseygirl3]

No airline allows a four year old to fly for free.


I think she meant the child was free for the cruise, not the air.

I completely understand the OP hesitation about leaving a young child with a babysitter alone in a cabin. I wouldn't do it. I'd feel much more comfortable if they were among other children in a more public environment. I'm sure the babysitters are well qualified and trustworthy, but you can never be too careful.

As far as insurance goes, here is where I differ with the OP decision on not purchasing it. It's not just for cancellation. What if, God forbid, something were to happen to her ill sister (or her child or herself) and needed medical attention or to be airlifted off the ship. That's what insurance is for as well. It's not just for cancellation. Given the fact that her sister has Stage 4 cancer, I would have purchased the insurance. Also, traveling with a 4-year-old, you never know what illness they can come down with.

Anyway, I'm so glad things worked out. I know how special it is to have "sister" time. We're cruising with my sister, BIL, and their 7-year-old twins next month on the Westerdam for a 7 night cruise, and I cherish those times we get to spend together. I hope the OP has a wonderful cruise and I will keep her sister in my prayers.

Jo-Ann

[newmexicoNita]

I am happy it worked out for you but this is a good warning or lesson may be a better word; once final payment is made the funds can not be refunded regardless. As for traveling with your little one, I too feel he should be in bed by 8pm. He will be exhausted. Now go, enjoy and good luck to all of you.

Nita

[robertmnch]

This is a 3-Day Westerdam which they are only having on 4/19. We didn't buy the insurance because if my sister couldn't go, then I would still go.. or vice versa. If for some reason I couldn't go with my son, my mom was going to go in my place. We have already invested in our airline tickets too for the cruise. And since we only paid $299 per person (my son was free) we didn't think $99 per person was worth it.

The HAL site shows their cancellation policy. Normally if I did decide to cancel today, I would only lose 50%. But they are saying that their cancel policy doesn't apply to the fare I was given. Now that is a first for me. I have never seen a cruise rate with and without penalty. They told me this was a 'Non-refundable" fare.
Just a note of "caution"! You cannot do name substitutions on HAL or the airlines after you have "Paid In Full"! You, your sister and son are the passengers of record!:eek: I would also check on "ID" for your son to travel, and permission to travel if you are are divorced!:rolleyes:

[fireofficer5]

hal screwed me over too, on the 12-01=07 cruise on the zuid. Booked o0ne three.in my cabin. then on cancelled. Just one minute after paying with a credit card. hal could care less. but that is the way of all big companies. worry about the share holders more than the customers.

[dakrewser]

hal screwed me over too, on the 12-01=07 cruise on the zuid. Booked o0ne three.in my cabin. then on cancelled. Just one minute after paying with a credit card. hal could care less. but that is the way of all big companies. worry about the share holders more than the customers.

No, they didn't "screw you over," they did exactly what they told you they would do. The one who "screwed you over" was the one who "...cancelled [sic]...one minute after paying..." Did they think you were joking? Or did you simply not check on their commitment?

[sargenet]

Although I am glad things are working out, and I am going, this has been a learning experience for me. I am not a first time cruiser... actually this will be my 14th.. but first on HAL. On most cruise lines, even after you had paid in full, there are options for cancelling closer to the sail date. Yes, you would lose a portion of your fare (say 75-50-25%) but you can still cancel.

The "fare" I received has different policies. HAL seems to have "refundable and non-refundable" fares. This definately is not something I have experienced before on other cruise lines but will be aware of in the future.

I also need to be more aware of cruise insurance on future sailings. Another poster mentioned it can provide more than just "cancellation" protection. Especially in the case of a sick child or my sister. I will be sure I make more informed decisions in the future. Seems like what they offer is much different than what I remember years ago. If I recall correctly, it didn't offer a refund if I changed my mind. Looks like things might have changed.

Another poster also mentioned changing "passengers". Once again, this might be cruise line specific, because we have made changes before without problems. We have taken names off..added someone different, added cabins, moved people around! But on different cruise lines......

When I spoke with the Director of Reservations, she stated that the reservation agent definately should have been aware of the 8pm start time. She said although the website is vague (evening hours).. their internal systems have this information available. I honestly believe, after talking to the Director, that HAL would have refunded my money based on the situation being escalated. They were definately trying to help. Once she and I discussed the new 7pm hours, plus alternatives.... I said I wanted to move forward with the cruise. So I truly believe HAL tried to make it right. And because I really wanted to go on this cruise I was happy with the outcome.

As far as Disney cruises... I love Disney! I have actually sailed with them twice BEFORE kids! I would definately consider taking my son on Disney once my husband is available (he is in the military).

[jhannah]

I am pleased for you that things worked out better than it looked originally. You all will enjoy your time together on a lovely ship.

[hammybee]

Just a note of "caution"! You cannot do name substitutions on HAL or the airlines after you have "Paid In Full"! You, your sister and son are the passengers of record!:eek: I would also check on "ID" for your son to travel, and permission to travel if you are are divorced!:rolleyes:

This is standard on most cruise lines including the higher end, once final payment date has come and gone.

[hammybee]

No, they didn't "screw you over," they did exactly what they told you they would do. The one who "screwed you over" was the one who "...cancelled [sic]...one minute after paying..." Did they think you were joking? Or did you simply not check on their commitment?

Fasinating how it sometimes is perceived that when a service provider does exactly what they say they will do, some consumers perceive it to being a "screw over" . This is not too different from perceptions of poor customer service when the consumer does not get the response he/she wants to hear.

[sargenet]

As far as airlines, we always choose to travel on Southwest because it provides flexibility. If I buy tickets for my family and decide to cancel or change passengers, dates, locations... there is no penalty to do so. You have one year to rebook using the travel funds. Of course if the fare is higher, you pay the difference. If the fare is lower, you get Southwest credit back. I just used monies from flights we took last October after we had to change our flights for my upcoming trip.

[fireofficer5]

they did screw me over. but what can you do. nothing. didn't even get a credit.

[Jade13]

Just a note of "caution"! You cannot do name substitutions on HAL or the airlines after you have "Paid In Full"! You, your sister and son are the passengers of record!:eek: I would also check on "ID" for your son to travel, and permission to travel if you are are divorced!:rolleyes:


I was going to post this too. Just a note that Celebrity allows substitutions/name changes for $50.00pp (plus some TA's also charge a change fee). Princess may allow name changes too, but HAL does not.

[Jade13]

[quote=sargenet;13656933]Although I am glad things are working out, and I am going, this has been a learning experience for me. I am not a first time cruiser... actually this will be my 14th.. but first on HAL. On most cruise lines, even after you had paid in full, there are options for cancelling closer to the sail date. Yes, you would lose a portion of your fare (say 75-50-25%) but you can still cancel.

quote]

HAL has this as well. I know at 30 days it is something like a 50% refund. It is right in their booklets. I have never heard of a HAL cruise where you did not have these percentages...

[Jade13]

I also need to be more aware of cruise insurance on future sailings. Another poster mentioned it can provide more than just "cancellation" protection. Especially in the case of a sick child or my sister. I will be sure I make more informed decisions in the future. Seems like what they offer is much different than what I remember years ago. If I recall correctly, it didn't offer a refund if I changed my mind. Looks like things might have changed.
).

You should still look into this. Even if you can afford to loose your cruise price what most people cannot afford is the cost of medical evacuation. You could be looking at $25K and up (Europe to US or further). Does your medical insurance be used outside of the US?

[sargenet]

quote]

HAL has this as well. I know at 30 days it is something like a 50% refund. It is right in their booklets. I have never heard of a HAL cruise where you did not have these percentages...[/quote]

For some reason the fair I was quoted was totally non-refundable. I did go online a few days later to check on prices and was given a choice for a "refundable" and "non-refundable" fare. There was a $50 difference. Something the agent did not mention. I was told I had to pay in full but I thought that was because it was very close to the sailing date. Actually over 45 days till cruising but I didn't realize this was different than their cancel penalty online. For awhile I thought it was because this might be a special sailing or something, but looks like others were able to make deposits only. There are others on my very same cruise that haven't even paid in full yet!