Religious Expression on Cruises

[RevNeal]

Ok .... here's a new poll. In what kinds of religious expression do you engage while on a cruise???

[Kami's pal]

I suspect that most of us find that we are moved to prayer by the awesome beauty of the natural world. A regularly scheduled service helps us find a way to express that in community. I do attend an interdenominational service once in a while.

[CruisinMatt]

I enjoy going to mass on Costa Cruise Line, the entire service is in Italian!
NCL did not provide any services on the cruises I was on.
Does HAL do a daily service? :o

[Lois R]

Hi:) looks like the last choice is leading the pack at the moment. I don't participate in any religious activities here at home and have no wish to do so while I am on a cruise either.

[debblue]

yes hal does offer interdominational services as well as jewish services i have attended both and hope they continue with this.

[Sage]

We try to attend Mass each day when offered.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Do not attend services while on vacation.

[BCEagle78]

Every HAL cruise I have been on has included a Catholic priest who offers daily Mass.

[ekerr19]

We do not attend services while on vacation either.

[tomc]

I am in a business (radio news) where life can seem bleak if it were not for my faith. I try to carry this over to vacations.

[Charlie2na]

OH LOOK , a can of worms...... wonder whats inside ! Probably shouldn't go there, but can't resist. Honestly , I for one ,would feel very uncomfortable , and a hypocrite if asked to join in any prayer at the dinner table.

[Stevesan]

Ok .... here's a new poll. In what kinds of religious expression do you engage while on a cruise???MYOB

Oops. That is your business.:)

[trustee55]

Hi!
We go to Mass whenever it is offered on HAL cruises.
Over the years, we have met any number of interesting priests, and on a Meditteranean cruise on the Noordam in 2003, our celebrant was the retired auxilary bishop of Aukland.
We feel it is wonderful that HAL offers this service.

Best regards and happy sailing,

Carol Ann

[kryos]

Ok .... here's a new poll. In what kinds of religious expression do you engage while on a cruise???
This was a difficult one for me to answer ... based on the poll's responses.

When I was on my Rotterdam cruise last March, I didn't get to attend any services ... they always seemed to conflict with sessions of the writer's conference I was onboard to attend. However, on my upcoming cruise I plan to attend whenever they have a service available.

I do pray silently not just before meals, but at other times too. I like to think I have a personal relationship with the lord, and because I am particularly prone to doing something sinful around every corner, I like to keep an open line of communication at all times! :) I also pray whenever I am about to do what my dad calls "one of them dumb things" ... parasailing, scuba diving, or whatever other trouble I can get myself into during a short cruise. :)

But, the main thing I do ... other than read scripture ... wasn't mentioned in your poll. I have many CD's of "teachings" of the various radio ministeries that I listen to. I spent a good two hours last night going through these and selecting about 30 of them to bring along. Before turning in at night, I like to listen to them ... sometimes in the morning too. Can't imagine a better way to start and end one's day than in the Word.

As to praying aloud before meals ... I guess I'm not mature enough in my faith yet to have the courage to be so bold as to do this. I guess I would worry about offending my table mates who may not be prone to want to do this. :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Tvisitor]

I voted in your last category, though that may be misleading. My remembrances of God tend to be spontaneous, and inwardly expressed. I might have been wrong to say I don’t engage in any expressions. However, though I read scriptures, and exegesis of scriptures, with great regularity while not on vacation, I don’t take Books with me when I am on vacation, and I felt your other choices implied prayers that are more formal than mine.

[kelmac]

I'm with you Charlie! I've got no problems with Jesus, it's just some of those fan clubs that make me nervous.

[tomc]

I've got no problems with Jesus, it's just some of those fan clubs that make me nervous. Darn, that's good!

[Tvisitor]

OH LOOK , a can of worms...... wonder whats inside ! Probably shouldn't go there, but can't resist. Honestly , I for one ,would feel very uncomfortable , and a hypocrite if asked to join in any prayer at the dinner table. I'm with you Charlie! I've got no problems with [God], it's just some of those fan clubs that make me nervous.You shouldn’t feel like a hypocrite. When the people who think others are going to Hell because of religious differences (or the doctrine and dogma of their particular faith says they are) turn around and ask the same folks they condemn to join in a prayer before a meal, who is the hypocrite?

Of course you feel uncomfortable. So do I.

[saltydog28]

I do believe in the power of prayer. And I do feel I would be an empty and shallow person if I did not have my faith. I don't mind sitting at a table where someone says Grace....BUT...I don't want to hold their hand and I don't want to be preached at.
I grew up in a family where, every holiday and during the summer, all my aunts and uncles and other family and non-family members gathered at my grandmother's.
There were three topics that were sure to get hot and heavy and the 'discussions' would last into the wee hours. Religion was one of them. What I learned from this was,
~Everyone has a point of view, and everyone thinks their opinion is the right one.~
Pat.

[RevNeal]

OH LOOK , a can of worms...... wonder whats inside ! Probably shouldn't go there, but can't resist. Honestly , I for one ,would feel very uncomfortable , and a hypocrite if asked to join in any prayer at the dinner table.

I didn't intend to post a can of worms. :) I specifically made the questions general to see about people's preferences in the area of religious expression while on a cruise.

As I essentially said on a different thread, I think that someone asking others -- whom they don't really know -- to hold hands and pray with them in public can be intrusive into those other people's rights. And, I most certainly would expect someone to be uncomfortable with it ... I am, myself, and I'm a minister! Indeed, it may be because I'm a minister that I'm uncomfortable with it. That is, however, a different issue than the question I asked. :)

[RevNeal]

MYOB

Oops. That is your business.

Actually, Stevesan, you were correct the first time. You are perfectly free to share what religious expressions, if any, you engage in on a cruise; likewise, you're perfectly free to keep that your own business and refrain from making any remark at all. Indeed, you can vote on the poll without people knowing how you voted. I made SURE that was kept private.

I simply posted this poll, and asked the question, in order to give people the freedom to address this issue in a somewhat more neutral environment than a thread in which someone had expressed pain over the loss of a child.

[RevNeal]

I voted in your last category, though that may be misleading. My remembrances of God tend to be spontaneous, and inwardly expressed. I might have been wrong to say I don’t engage in any expressions. However, though I read scriptures, and exegesis of scriptures, with great regularity while not on vacation, I don’t take Books with me when I am on vacation, and I felt your other choices implied prayers that are more formal than mine.

I understand. Based upon what you state above, it sounds to me like the option "pray privately in cabin" would be closer to what you intend. My intention for saying "privately in cabin" was not so much to intend WHERE as to provide a contrast with the more public expressions and to highlight that the fact that it is YOUR personal, private expression, and not necessarily some kind of structured service ... though it MIGHT be that, too. I say compline every night, on my own, in my cabin ... which is a structured service. However, I also have found myself saying a silent, private prayer -- all of a sudden -- when inspired by an amazing view while up on the forward observation deck. And, that is very much "in private," even though also public.

Sorry for the limited number of choices.

[the2ofus]

On longer cruises I have attended Protestant services on Sunday when they are offered. I usually pray privately in our cabin, just as I do at home. I have also been known to offer silent prayers of thanksgiving for the beauty of this world and for the opportunity to observe it from the deck of a cruise ship as I walk the Lower Promenade deck.

[RevNeal]

I've got no problems with Jesus, it's just some of those fan clubs that make me nervous.

LOL ... not to mention some of his Cheerleaders ... eh? :D ;)

[cactuslady]

Does singing "Nearer My God to Thee" count?

(Hope I don't have to do that!) ;)

[elmorejj]

I pray privately at home and therefor do the same on the ship. I was raised in the C of E church in England and we seem to have different thoughts than a lot of the fundamentalist religions in the US. I guess we are a little closer to Catholicism in our beliefs. Another reason we like a table for 2, I would not appreciate someone putting their beliefs to me at the DR table. We say Grace silently.....jean :cool:

[Stevesan]

Actually, Stevesan, you were correct the first time. You are perfectly free to share what religious expressions, if any, you engage in on a cruise; likewise, you're perfectly free to keep that your own business and refrain from making any remark at all. Indeed, you can vote on the poll without people knowing how you voted. I made SURE that was kept private.

How very generous of you. I thought it was mandatory. I feel a lot better now.

[WeBeGone]

Just being blessed enough to be able to stand on a ship and watch a sunrise or sunset is a "religious" experience for us. We thank fate, opportunity, and God that we're able to experience all a cruise means to us.

[RuthC]

I speak many little daily prayers of "please" and "thank you" IRL and continue that during every cruise. There's so much more to say "thank you" for then!

I do my best to attend weekly religious service on board; sometimes the service is held too early in the morning and I can't get up. God's gotta work with me here.
(I'll go to a daily afternoon service to make up for it, though.)

But I consider all this highly personal and private; I would never impose on other's right to choose different (or no) expression.

[Roadguy]

Religiously Eating?....
Religiously Bathing?....Etc.......
How about Praying in the Casino?...

[bombero]

My wife and I love our Father God, and our Lord and Savior Jesus... Although we don't attend services on the ship, we do hold hands and pray out loud before every meal. There's been times when we've been fortunate to be seated at a table with other believers of different denominations, where we all held hands while someone led in a prayer. Sometimes, it's just the two of us who hold hands and pray. Once a couple told me that I offended them. I replied that I would rather offend them then to offend God. They never sat with us again, but that's okay too. They were replaced with a Jewish couple, who always stopped whatever they were doing while we prayed. They were great and we both shared many friendly discussions about our faith and beliefs.. To those of you who don't pray, that's your business and your decision. We do and will continue too, and that's our decision... Bombero

[dakrewser]

Every HAL cruise I have been on has included a Catholic priest who offers daily Mass.
On the Volendam last fall the priest missed the boat, so there were no RC services at all.....

[tomc]

Once a couple told me that I offended them. I replied that I would rather offend them then to offend God. Not a good way, in my opinion. I'd switch tables, too, if someone forced me to sit thru their religious practice -- and I'm a churchgoer. That's a private, at best consensual, matter. You are forcing someone to be present during a "service" which may conflict with their beliefs. I don't think anyone's concept of a Supreme Being really will get His/Her/Its anthropomorphic nose out of joint because people lay back and do silently, on a cruise, what they might do aloud at home.

[bepsf]

I'm sure I'll get alot of flack for this...

Years ago, I did volunteer work with a gay man who was studying for the ministry and attended his ordination service at the Episcopalian church here in SF. He took a calling to a parish back east and we lost touch...

When I boarded the RSVP cruise in Feb (a gay charter) i wasn't aboard the O-Dam more than 30 minutes when I stopped in my tracks - there was Father Tim! The charter company had invited him aboard (free passage) as a chaplain to lead services and commitment ceremonies, host daily AA and HIV Positive group counseling discussions, and act as general counselor for anyone who might feel the need while on the trip.

Not only was I glad to reconnect with an old friend, but it felt good knowing that the company thought well enough to bringalong someone who could be there for us spiritually.

Because I don't consider myself a religious person or participate in organized religion (although I do believe in a greater spiritual force) I would not feel comfy holding hands to participate in a table prayer, however I do respect others beliefs and would allow them a moment.

[DFD1]

Bombero, You're a hard-hearted Christian......or is that a contradiction?

[kelmac]

Yo! Bombero--we're not in the club--please, we are trying to eat here! :D

[Nliedel]

I'm sure I'll get alot of flack for this...

Years ago, I did volunteer work with a gay man who was studying for the ministry and attended his ordination service at the Episcopalian church here in SF. He took a calling to a parish back east and we lost touch...

When I boarded the RSVP cruise in Feb (a gay charter) i wasn't aboard the O-Dam more than 30 minutes when I stopped in my tracks - there was Father Tim! The charter company had invited him aboard (free passage) as a chaplain to lead services and commitment ceremonies, host daily AA and HIV Positive group counseling discussions, and act as general counselor for anyone who might feel the need while on the trip.

Not only was I glad to reconnect with an old friend, but it felt good knowing that the company thought well enough to bringalong someone who could be there for us spiritually.

Because I don't consider myself a religious person or participate in organized religion (although I do believe in a greater spiritual force) I would not feel comfy holding hands to participate in a table prayer, however I do respect others beliefs and would allow them a moment.

That's wonderful, that you could connect again like that!!!! I am allfor people practing their faith, just PLEASE don't force me to be included!! I worship my way, you worship yours and it's all good.. I won't talkn to you about politics either : )

[bombero]

It appears I offended some of you.. I didn't mean too, nor did I ever say that you were wrong, or that you didn't have a right to your own beliefs as you see them.. I did express my own beliefs and my actions.. I've never asked anyone to hold hands to pray, or even join in, in prayer. What I mentioned in my reply was all voluntary on the part of our table mates. Other than holding my wifes hand to give thanks to God for our food, which is our right, I've never pushed Christianity on anyone. But, if asked, I would gladly tell you anything you'd like to know. The things that were mentioned in my last reply, were all voluntary on the part of our table mates. With one exception, they all expressed a desire to join in, they were not pressured, at least by us. I hope this doesn't get any one upset also, and I hope I explained myself and my actions.. Bombero

[kryos]

To those of you who don't pray, that's your business and your decision. We do and will continue too, and that's our decision... Bombero
I'd love to be your tablemate anytime, Bombero.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RevNeal]

How very generous of you. I thought it was mandatory. I feel a lot better now.

? :confused:
I'm sorry if I have upset you. That was not my intention.

[RevNeal]

But I consider all this highly personal and private; I would never impose on other's right to choose different (or no) expression.

Totally agreed.

[RevNeal]

How about Praying in the Casino?...

I've heard many prayers being offered up in the Casino.

"Oh, God, let it hit this time"
"Oh, God, let it be a 7"
"Oh, God, let it be a 10."

I've prayed these myself. :)
I've even bargained with God, promising to pay DOUBLE tithe if he'd let me win. It doesn't work. :D

[ASM]

I marked pray out loud at meals but our out loud certainly can't be heard by anyone else! We also sit at a table for 2. If we were assigned to a larger table, we would pray silently.

[RevNeal]

Once a couple told me that I offended them. I replied that I would rather offend them then to offend God.

While I appreciate your faith, and believe you should always feel free to live your faith and pray your prayers, I do not believe that God calls us to be discourteous to those who either don't share our faith or the same kind of devotion. In addition, I don't believe that God is offended when we are courteous to others, even if that means that we change how we would otherwise go about our prayers. It is, after all, possible for believers to pray prior to going to dinner ... or to hold hands and silently pray together prior to beginning the first course and without disturbing others.

Frankly, this is what I do when I'm on a cruise and seated at a table where I don't know those around me; I take a short 5 seconds to offer a silent prayer before I begin my first course. I don't bow my head, close my eyes, and move my lips ... it is fully possible to pray with one's eyes open ... I just hold very still and pray. However, after a couple nights of this the three other couples at my table asked me what I was doing. I told them and, the following evening, these three couples all asked me if I would lead them in grace that evening (I think they conferred together about this before I got to the table). I did. But that was an invited, and agreed upon communal act which they initiated, not I.

If someone(s) are offended or feel their rights infringed upon by my overtly praying in public, I would rather lean on God's Grace and be courteous toward such by not offending them. It is my opinion that this is a much better reflection of the Love of God than being rude and insensitive to others.

[RevNeal]

Not only was I glad to reconnect with an old friend, but it felt good knowing that the company thought well enough to bringalong someone who could be there for us spiritually.

Thank you for sharing this, Brian, it was very good to read. I find it interesting to note all the many different kinds of stereotypes that all sorts of people have of others; many people view others through expectations and prejudices that have very little to do with reality. This is particularly true when it comes to both religion and sexual orientation. Frankly, I enjoy watching such prejudices being dismantled.

Sadly, my denomination bars me from performing Holy Union services for homosexual couples; although I can bless their homes, their cars, their pets, their meals, and even them as individual persons, I cannot bless them as a couple. However, I'm very glad that there are other clergy who are allowed to do so.

[Stevesan]

? :confused:
I'm sorry if I have upset you. That was not my intention.Revneal, you couldn't possibly upset me. I'm only affected by those I take seriously.

[bombero]

Hello RevNeal... I've read a few of your posts.. Would you please e-mail me?.. Bombero095@yahoo.com .... Thanks...

[digby]

OH LOOK , a can of worms...... wonder whats inside ! Probably shouldn't go there, but can't resist. Honestly , I for one ,would feel very uncomfortable , and a hypocrite if asked to join in any prayer at the dinner table.

I would too, and would not participate. I think it is outrageous that anyone would assume a group of stangers would want to join in what should be so private as prayer. I have no problem with people being religious, but don't force it on others. I'm sure Miss Manners would agree.

[jazzsea]

When my dixieland Jazz groups are aboard HAL ships we have a dixieland gospel service each Sunday. It is one of the few times during the cruise that our music is open to the public. We pack the main show lounge regardless of the ship size. That is my idea of church.

[tomc]

Digby said: I'm sure Miss Manners would agree.Miss Manners replies...

Miss Manners has long held that there are many actions, which are done by nearly everyone in the world, that we generally keep private. The exceptions tend to be after a frat party or during times of altered mental competence. Many of these actions are, indeed, quite good and praiseworthy toward achieving a goal. However, “good” is not a one-word substitute for “hey, guys; watch this.”

Of all the practices which cause us insight, a sense of completeness and even a certain degree of pleasure, prayer is one which is best done either privately or within a group of like-minded individuals but not in a public place. Not everyone is religious and would appreciate being forced to watch people perform a religious ritual, no matter how brief or well-meant. When we are on a cruise, our purpose is to vacation, not to find souls which might need saving. If they are in that predicament, our words of blessing over the prime rib aren’t going to have much effect.

Miss Manners suggests that, instead, you bow your heads for a short silent prayer without drawing attention to yourselves. If you feel the Lord has called you to save your fellow passengers, it may be a sign that you forgot to take your meds that morning.

[tomc]

jazzsea --

Are you with that group from California? I was on a cruise where there was a Dixieland group and it did a church service. Had a catchy name, something like "Late Blooming Jasmine" or "Late Blooming Jazzmen." Great group. I write a music column for the local newspaper and did a column about them.

[Lois R]

hmmm....I wasn't going to reply again but can't help it;) ....this is a very interesting topic. My first reply was about how I voted...that I don't practice at home and don't wish to on a ship either.

But now the topic seems to have expanded a bit. It is hard sometimes to explain things on the internet....going to try and give some of my thoughts.

When people say for example, that they pray outloud, I am not talking about anyone on here specifically, just in general......but when someone prays outloud, I want to ask, if anyone besides me, would feel uncomfortable about it.
Lets say we are all talking and then the waiter comes over and hands out the menus...then he leaves and we are talking (tablemates). Then orders are placed....and appetiziers are put down...and there are folks who start to pray outloud before eating.
I think human nature (FOR ME) would take over and I would stop talking....now, I know most (operative word here...MOST) of us have manners. I feel like my manners would kick in...but my question is, wouldn't it be just as appropriate for those praying to have manners as well? I am not trying to be rude with my question to the forum....I am really wondering....don't manners count for ALL OF US?.....I think praying silently is much different than hearing words spoken.....
And maybe I am not asking this correctly.....it is a very touchy subject.

I think If I had tablesmates who wanted to pray out loud, I would stay at that table for the first evening, then go see the Maitr'd after dinner and request a table change.

[bombero]

I sure hope we are so fortunate and blessed to be on the same cruise with you and your Dixieland Jazz group.. Just love Jazz and Dixieland! Especially Gospel Dixie/Jazz.. I agree, that's Worshiping.... Bombero


When my dixieland Jazz groups are aboard HAL ships we have a dixieland gospel service each Sunday. It is one of the few times during the cruise that our music is open to the public. We pack the main show lounge regardless of the ship size. That is my idea of church.

[RevNeal]

Revneal, you couldn't possibly upset me. I'm only affected by those I take seriously.

Ah ... so. Well ... it's always nice to know where one stands. :rolleyes:

[Thoth]

We should not feel threatened by other's religious beliefs. As a Christian, I would be honored to be ask to participate in a Jewish( for example) dinner if on a cruise. If I understand correctly, the Indoneasian crew are Muslims, and there is a small mosque on the crew deck. I see no problems with that, and as a matter of fact I always feel like I have made friends with them each time I sail HAL.

[RevNeal]

I think human nature (FOR ME) would take over and I would stop talking....now, I know most (operative word here...MOST) of us have manners. I feel like my manners would kick in...but my question is, wouldn't it be just as appropriate for those praying to have manners as well? I am not trying to be rude with my question to the forum....I am really wondering....don't manners count for ALL OF US?.....I think praying silently is much different than hearing words spoken.

EXCELLENT post, Lois. VERY WELL said; and, essentially, what I was meaning in an earlier post. You describe very well why a silent prayer in mixed and unfamiliar company, is far more polite than being overt and out-loud. To pray out loud in the postulated setting, with the given circumstances and people, would be rude and presumptive; to pray in silence is polite, for it requests no participation on the part of others other than not bothering the prayer while the prayer prays. MOST people have that kind of respect, and -- I would hope -- would not be offended if someone took a moment (I'm talking 10 seconds, not 3 or 4 minutes) to to pray silently and on their own, before eating.

Sadly, I have run into a few people who have been offended when I used to close my eyes and bow my head for about 10 seconds to offer a silent prayer to God ... they gave me an ear-full as to how it was wrong for me to pray in public, even silently. Hence, I adopted the practice of praying with my eyes open. :) If they don't like me praying THAT way, they can take a flying leap for all I care ... they've got OTHER problems than me praying silently.

[Anorak33]

Nice post Thoth - however what if someone's beliefs include trying to convert others to their faith?

How about if they walk around the ship handing out religious tracts or the "Watchtower" magazine? (if you have heard of that)

How about if they knock on your cabin door and "offer you the gift of eternal life?"

These activities are not unusual on land - what do you think about them on ship?

I must say right off I have never seen any of this going on aboard.

[RevNeal]

Anorak33,

All of those Religious expressions would involve bothering someone else. While such might be "required" by someone's religious beliefs, if it intrudes upon another person's right to be left alone that's where it has to stop. That's why I suggest people who wish to pray simply pray silently.

Someone E-mailed me a few minutes back, essentially accusing me of being a hypocrite on this matter. They said that, since I was a minister and a chaplain for the line, it's my job to NOT be silent and to be "overt" in my religious expressions in public worship. True enough ... on a cruise my job, as a chaplain, is to preach, celebrate the eucharist, lead bible study and prayer groups, and counsel; all of these are either public or involve interactions with other people. However, each contact with others is INVITED contact, not imposed contact. That's a critical difference. The public religious services are held in a specific place, at specific posted times. If people don't want to be exposed to such services, they don't have to attend. As I've written elsewhere, if someone wishes to invite religious contact, that's their business too. But my freedom of religious expression ends when and where it imposes upon another's right to not be bothered by my expression. :) Reason is called forth from the other person, of course -- otherwise, the Tyranny of the Bothered would be the rule of law. :)

[kryos]

I think If I had tablesmates who wanted to pray out loud, I would stay at that table for the first evening, then go see the Maitr'd after dinner and request a table change.
I think it's a question of what "out loud" means. If I choose to bow my head when the meal is placed before me, and utter a quiet prayer of thanks for the food I've received, I don't believe that is outright rude. It's just me expressing my beliefs in an unobtrusive way.

If someone politely asks his tablemates if they'd like to join him in a prayer of thanksgiving before partaking in a meal, and is not overbearing in any way ... simply extending a polite invitation ... just as someone might extend an invitation to his tablemates at the end of dinner "hey, anyone heading to the showroom ... want to join us?" ... I don't think there is anything to feel uncomfortable about. A simple "no thanks" and the matter of prayer should be closed for the remainder of the cruise.

I think there is such a great deal of diversity among people on your average cruise that anyone extending an invitation to join in a prayer of thanks would not be in the slightest bit offended if his tablemates declined. As long as the matter is dropped at that point, never to surface again during the remainder of the cruise, I don't think it has to be something to make anyone uncomfortable to the point of not wishing to dine with those tablemates anymore. Again, I'm not talking someone who is overbearing ... praying loudly at each meal, insisting on repeatedly extending the invitation to pray to his tablemates. That sort of person is just trying to flaunt his faith ... or maybe make up for his lack thereof.

I for one am finding this thread fascinating and I'm learning from it. As I said before, while I would not be offended by an invitation to share in a prayer of thanks, I would not be so bold as to extend such an invitation. I'm not the overt type, and I'm certainly not mature enough in my faith to ever be able to do that. The conversation this thread has stimulated is what draws me to discussion boards such as this one ... the chance to engage in the freeflowing give and take on a subject upon which everyone holds strong beliefs and convictions, and is willing to share them so that others may grow.

Blue skies!

--rita

[glrounds]

Does the "fan club" award BONUS POINTS for praying out load? Is there a Nirvana equivalent of an "upgrade" for tearing out some of the scriptures and cramming them down the throat of someone trying to enjoy their salad? :D

I find it amusing that ALL the "fan clubs" claim to be right. A logical contradiction. In reality, there are no contradictions.

Unfortunately, some of these "fan clubs" are so convinced that they are right, they feel fully justified in trying to kill every last one who isn't a member of their "club". :mad:

I find "fan clubs" dangerous. :(

[Nliedel]

If someone, of any faith, were to knock on my door on a cruise and try to convert me they better start hoping that I do not have a balconey that cruise or they may be going over.. That goes for people trying to sell stuff too and children banging on doors cause they think it is funny.... Hmm.... I could extend this philosphy way out ; )

[RevNeal]

I could extend this philosphy way out

Just be careful that you don't extend it to the room service stewards. :D ;)

[Lois R]

Hi Rita:) I am not asking you to change your way of praying....but If It makes me uncomfortable, then my choice would be to ask the Maitr'd for a change.

[Thoth]

Nice post Thoth - however what if someone's beliefs include trying to convert others to their faith?

How about if they walk around the ship handing out religious tracts or the "Watchtower" magazine? (if you have heard of that)

How about if they knock on your cabin door and "offer you the gift of eternal life?"

These activities are not unusual on land - what do you think about them on ship?

I must say right off I have never seen any of this going on aboard.
I agree with you Anork33. I don't care for those who wish to shove their books down my throat. My typical response is a stern "I have my beliefs you have yours now good bye". These whole threads relate back to a post by a lady named Kris who met a couple named Mike and Elsie. From what I have read there is no indication that Mike and Elsie were the type who pushed booklets or knocked on doors. They simply ask others to join hands with them while he or she prayed. A person could easily say, "I'm not a hand holder but I'll gladly bow my head while you pray" out of courtesy.

[annebill]

Let's get back to cruising. Anybody ever cruised on a SWIFT BOAT ?(Just as much on topic as the present discussion. RIGHT?).

[CDRMark]

Special Warfare Craft (Light), yes.
Cheers
MarkB

[MISSYLOU]

Annebill: While I appreciate you trying to get this thread back on track, it is a thread very much about an activity that is offered while on board. There have been several inquiries regarding religious services. So to post a poll regarding religious services or practices on board is very much on topic as are "Do you play bingo" or "best food" polls.

I hesitate to comment on this post because I tend to stay away from contoversy on these boards. I was interested in this post because of my own religious practices on board and interested in the opinions of others. I attend Mass if the time doesn't conflict with my schedule while on board however watching the beautiful sunrises and sunsets are also religious experiences for me. I also appreciate the opinions of others even if they differ from mine.

What I don't understand is why a post that is of interest to some seems to generate snide comments from others. If we truly enjoy the diversity of the people we meet while on board, then why are we so discourteous to one another while posting?:(

[dakrewser]

What I don't understand is why a post that is of interest to some seems to generate snide comments from others. If we truly enjoy the diversity of the people we meet while on board, then why are we so discourteous to one another while posting?:(
Well said. Other that the ad at the top of the page, no one is forced to read every thread nor vote in every poll. Not that I don't appreciate discourse and debate, but there's no need to stoop to name-calling or other rude practices.;)

[ekerr19]

What I don't understand is why a post that is of interest to some seems to generate snide comments from others. If we truly enjoy the diversity of the people we meet while on board, then why are we so discourteous to one another while posting?:(
It is the nature of the beast. This is a very personal subject and there is no "right" or "wrong", only very personal opinions.

Name calling is rude and discourteous. However, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of Annebill's post - the name calling and rudeness is not coming from those who are getting weary of this topic - you only need look at Thoth's posts to see the pot who is calling the kettle black. :)

[MISSYLOU]

ekerr: I didn't mean to imply that Annebill was making snide remarks. As he/she was not. Annebill was definitely trying to get us back on track. I know who was stirring the pot.

Apologies Annebill if you took my post the wrong way.

[annebill]

Just my poor attempt to introduce a little levity here, Missylou. Sorry to have offended you. After several years of following this board off and on I realize that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that is discussed here that doesn't raise the ire of someone. Even a joke. Too bad.

[RevNeal]

This is a very personal subject and there is no "right" or "wrong", only very personal opinions.

That should be printed at the top of just about every thread, not just this one. That being said, it most especially belongs at the top of this one. :) Thank you for the reminder.

[Boo's Mom]

Lois.... My daughter has found her way onto this post. I am sorry if her comment was disrespectful. She is not allowed to post without my permission.

I have erased it, but it may have gone through to you.

On behalf of her, I apologize.

Respectfully,

[CrabbyHarper]

On my first HAL cruise in April 2004 I attended Mass every day. It was the highlight of my cruise. But I certainly would not expect my traveling companions to join me, although they would be welcome. For them the highlight could have been bingo and who am I to say that that was not a religious experience for them? To paraphrase Rev Neal: "Oh God, please a B-12!"

One of the reasons I booked HAL again in Nov 04 and Apr 05 is that a priest is "always" aboard.

But the Mass is held "privately" - in a separate room - the Wajang Theater on my cruise -and no one has to go.

If someone asks me about my religious preferences I will respond, but otherwise I think that proselytizing is not wise. I'd rather show my Christianity by example. By being courteous and considerate of others' beliefs.

However, FWIW: When I get asked to say a prayer at mealtimes and can't avoid it, here is a table prayer I learned from a Navy Chaplain:
Bless us Lord and bless the food
Keep us in a pleasant mood
Bless the cooks and those who serve us,
And from indigestion, Lord, preserve us.

And no, I will not ask my table mates on my next cruises to hold hands and say it!

[Boo's Mom]

I replied that I would rather offend them then to offend God.

That would be a BINGO!

Bombero.... As you know, it's called persecution. The Lord Jesus told us that it would happen. It's not against us. It's against Him.

Stand Strong.

[Boo's Mom]

Sadly, my denomination bars me from performing Holy Union services for homosexual couples; although I can bless their homes, their cars, their pets, their meals, and even them as individual persons, I cannot bless them as a couple. However, I'm very glad that there are other clergy who are allowed to do so.

:confused:

[peaches from georgia]

Boo's Mom Quote:
Originally Posted by revneal
Sadly, my denomination bars me from performing Holy Union services for homosexual couples; although I can bless their homes, their cars, their pets, their meals, and even them as individual persons, I cannot bless them as a couple. However, I'm very glad that there are other clergy who are allowed to do so.

:confused:


Boo's Mom: Just wondering what your post above- just a ':confused:' smilie- meant? Revneal's quote about services for homosexual couples is pretty explicit, so what is your question??

[Boo's Mom]

That should be printed at the top of just about every thread, not just this one. That being said, it most especially belongs at the top of this one. :) Thank you for the reminder.


Rev Neal..... A true Teacher of the Lord Jesus Christ knows and teaches that there is a clear right and wrong. The Lord's way is right.

Sir, I am going to pray for you.

Very, very Respectfully Submitted,

[Boo's Mom]

Boo's Mom: Just wondering what your post above- just a ':confused:' smilie- meant? Revneal's quote about services for homosexual couples is pretty explicit, so what is your question??

Yes. You are right. His statement is crystal clear.

My confusion: The Lord Jesus Christ denounces homosexual behavior. Rev Neal is claiming to be a teacher of the Lord Jesus. Thus, my confusion.

[imsulin]

Oh, please, Boo's Mom! Take your "preaching" elsewhere...PLEASE!! You have made posts that are so obviously ignorant of history in terms of the Bible, that you are only displaying yourself and your beliefs in such a non-tolerant and ignorant manner as to be non-credulous. Rev Neal has been a long-time poster here, and far more "realistic" than you. Stay home in your little South Texas "Paradise" and be as intolerant and ignorant as you will. While you're there, you might want to consider doing a little historical research into the foundations of religions, and the commonalities that many of them have....including the Old Testament! The world is a GREAT BIG PLACE, but your ideas seem to tell us that your little world is the only one. Sheesh! I'm not even going to apologize. Off to bake the communion bread for tomorrow's service.

[petermccue]

Originally posted by Boo's Mom:

That would be a BINGO!

Bombero.... As you know, it's called persecution. The Lord Jesus told us that it would happen. It's not against us. It's against Him.

(end quote)

Actually, study your history. Persecution was when Antiochos IV (175-164 B.C.) decreed that the Jews could no longer sacrifice in the Temple or when Diocletian decreed the end of Christian worship and the requirement for sacrifices to the Roman gods. In both cases (as well as many many others) a religion was either restricted or banned by the government. I'd hardly think that being asked to show common courtesy to your fellow passengers by those same fellow passengers comes up to the level of intolerance, much less persecution.

I keep my religious beliefs to myself, unless asked by close friends. I don't see a prayer at a meal as being something that needs to be shared with everyone at the table. I have the common courtesy to be silent and not disturb someone's prayer, and I expect the same courtesy to not put me in a spot that makes me uncomfortable.

V

[peaches from georgia]

Another question, Boo's Mom, if I may. What denomination of Christianity are you?

[imsulin]

Good question, Peaches. I'm anxious to read her answer.

[Boo's Mom]

Another question, Boo's Mom, if I may. What denomination of Christianity are you?


Peaches.... I do not need to identify myself any further with a label on my "denomination". I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God...God in Flesh.

This battle is not mine.

I sign off of this post now.

Repectfully Submitted,

[annebill]

Hmmmm. Seems like those of you on opposite sides of the question are EQUALLY INTOLERANT of the other.

[gliles]

.... I do not need to identify myself any further with a label on my "denomination". I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God...God in Flesh.
AHA, that's what the BINGO meant, she doesn't even know!

[imsulin]

Buh-bye.

So much for the typical and usual "non-identification". Yawn.

[Roboat]

I think it's a question of what "out loud" means. If I choose to bow my head when the meal is placed before me, and utter a quiet prayer of thanks for the food I've received, I don't believe that is outright rude. It's just me expressing my beliefs in an unobtrusive way.


I think that makes a lot of sense.

If someone politely asks his tablemates if they'd like to join him in a prayer of thanksgiving before partaking in a meal, and is not overbearing in any way ... simply extending a polite invitation ... just as someone might extend an invitation to his tablemates at the end of dinner "hey, anyone heading to the showroom ... want to join us?" ... I don't think there is anything to feel uncomfortable about. A simple "no thanks" and the matter of prayer should be closed for the remainder of the cruise.

I can tell you that I for one would have a HUGELY different reaction if you were to ask me to join you for the evening comedy show, versus asking me to join you in prayer.

Let me say that I believe you do NOT fall in the category of pray-for-show folks. You seem from your posts to be honest, sincere, caring and polite.

To illustrate the difference in how I would react, consider if someone were to publicly and politely pass a hat around the table, asking if anyone would like to join them in making donation to a women's shelter. Now, I might have just written a $500 check to the Children's Cancer Fund, or I might do all of my giving through United Way, or I may spend every Saturday delivering meals to sick people, or I may not have any cash on me, or I may be a cheapskate. But regardless, now I'm going to risk embarrassment if I don't kick in a few bucks.

Now whoever passed that hat may have the best of intentions, and truly doesn't want to offend anyone. In your post, you write, "I don't think there is anything to feel uncomfortable about. A simple "no thanks" and the matter of prayer should be closed for the remainder of the cruise."

It isn't that simple. Because if I choose not to give, (or pray) I do run the risk of being considered an uncaring cheapskate (or godless heathen.) And if I did contribute (or pray) I would probably feel like it was coerced, like I was unfairly put on the spot.

So I think that when someone asks people whom they don't know to join them in prayer - even with the best of intentions - they create an uncomfortable situation for some.

Hard to explain. Whether you agree or not, I hope I have given a clear analogy. I don't mean to offend or to be argumentative. I'm just giving you my honest personal viewpoint.

[RevNeal]

Rev Neal..... A true Teacher of the Lord Jesus Christ knows and teaches that there is a clear right and wrong. The Lord's way is right.

Sir, I am going to pray for you.

Dear Boo's Mom,

I appreciate your prayers. Thankfully, God knows what my needs are, even if others attempt to arrogate to themselves the assumption of that knowledge.

As for your statement regarding what a true Teacher of the Lord Jesus Christ knows and teaches ... yes, indeed, there is a clear right and wrong. There is a right way to treat people, and there is a clear wrong way; the right way exemplifies the love of God which sent Jesus into this world and onto the cross for the world -- and that's a love that doesn't judge or reject, but accepts and forgives (read John 15:13).

Jesus said that we should "do to others as we would have them do unto us." Is praying out loud in mixed religious company truly so critical to "right and wrong" that it overrides the divine calling to "do unto others"? This IS the issue we are addressing, you know -- not matters of eternity, but simply matters of how we behave toward our fellow human beings when on a cruise: do we show them the courtesy we would like to receive, or are we arrogant and rude? I know what Jesus said, and what He would have me do. I pray you are graced to hear His still small voice inside your head when that time comes for you as well.

Grace and Peace,

[Claire O'Brien]

Oh dear - Boo's Mom has signed off the thread - I guess that means that poor little Boo has her undivided attention now..................

[RevNeal]

My confusion: The Lord Jesus Christ denounces homosexual behavior. Rev Neal is claiming to be a teacher of the Lord Jesus. Thus, my confusion.

The following constitutes the totality of what Jesus had to say about homosexuality:







Yep ... Jesus said nothing about homosexual behavior. Not a thing. Jesus denounced injustice against the poor, women, children, the sick, and the outcast; Jesus refused to condemn a woman caught in adultery; Jesus ate dinner with the greatest sinner in town (Zacchaeus); Jesus denounced religious bigotry, spiritual pride, and the "doing of one's religion for the approval of others." But Jesus said nothing about homosexuality or homosexual behavior.

I'm sorry we got onto this subject. I didn't intend to preach a sermon ... it just popped out of me. :)

Hey ... Jesus took a cruise on Lake Tiberius once! He had a great way of stopping sea-sickness, and he didn't have to put out an advertisement on Cruise Critics to get his Disciples to buy it, either!! ;)

[RevNeal]

Boo's Mom has signed off the thread

So I just noticed. Perhaps I should have reviewed all the responses before posting. Oh, well ... perhaps she'll come back and read it anyway.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Curious as usual, I just read through this thread and I came upon a wonderful way to handle the next time I write something I regret.

Boo's Mom blamed it on her daughter. You'll recall she posted that she was sorry that her daughter had posted something that had offended someone and she apologized.

I'm forever telling my little girl "hands off those keys!!!";)

[RevNeal]

I'm forever telling my little girl "hands off those keys!!!"

That's an excellent idea .. except that I don't think my son, Jeremiah ...
http://homepage.mac.com/revneal/.cv/revneal/Sites/.Pictures/jeremiahcat/jeremiah1.jpg-thumb_141_106.jpg
... has that kind of dexterity in his paws. :D

[B00]

Is Jeremiah a British or Russian Blue? or some other breed?

Wow - he sure is a handsome cat!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Nor does my little girl, Molly, who you see in the pic above:D

[RevNeal]

Thank you, Boo ... he sure thinks he's handsome too. Actually, he's just an grey American short hair. He has a little Siamese in him, though. Here's a link to a collection of photos of him. He's my special friend.

Jeremiah Cat Neal (http://homepage.mac.com/revneal/PhotoAlbum10.html)

And here are photos of my daughter, Dorcas:

Dorcas Basset Neal (http://homepage.mac.com/revneal/PhotoAlbum1.html)

They are my sweet children.

[RevNeal]

Oh, Heather, what kind of doggie is Molly? So SWEET!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Rev, what an adorable Basset!! So so cute!!! And your cat, too, magnificent!

Molly is a Bichon Frise ... she is the apple of our eye:D . Words can't begin. We have a kitty cat, too, Sammie, who is also our love. Molly is 3, Sammie is 14. I can't say they're exactly friends;) , but they co-exist.

[ekerr19]

Is Jeremiah a British or Russian Blue? or some other breed?

Wow - he sure is a handsome cat!BOO-

Just noticed you joined today... welcome to our boards and this very interesting thread - interestingly enough, you've picked a user name similar to one member that's had a rough time of it on these boards this morning...

Or maybe you are Boo's daughter?

[B00]

Wow - what a coincidence - Poor old Mom - I guess I better not use this name any more.

Gotta run now - she's coming back in the computer room!

No more from naughty B00

[Lois R]

Rev, you probably don't need this but I want to say I am sorry the last few posts have been so rude towards you....no, that is incorrect...not the last few...but one specifically..........It is really sad, (IN MY OPINION)....

You must be a very special person, not just in the eyes of the BIG GUY upstairs:) but to most people down here as well.
Because when I read things~well, lets just say I feel like screaming sometimes:eek:

I was raised in the Jewish Religion, though I am not practicing.
Anyway....as I was growing up I was taught that it counted more to be a good person while I am here.....not because of anything "down the road"....but because it is the right thing to do!

This is getting way off topic of cruising....so I will just say I think you are a wonderful person and maybe we could sit together at dinner on a cruiseship one day:D

[ekerr19]

Rev, you probably don't need this but I want to say I am sorry the last few posts have been so rude towards you....no, that is incorrect...not the last few...but one specifically..........It is really sad, (IN MY OPINION)....

You must be a very special person, not just in the eyes of the BIG GUY upstairs:) but to most people down here as well.
Because when I read things~well, lets just say I feel like screaming sometimes:eek:

I was raised in the Jewish Religion, though I am not practicing.
Anyway....as I was growing up I was taught that it counted more to be a good person while I am here.....not because of anything "down the road"....but because it is the right thing to do!

This is getting way off topic of cruising....so I will just say I think you are a wonderful person and maybe we could sit together at dinner on a cruiseship one day:D
Lois-

Here, Here!!! I applaud you for pointing this out! I would love to meet up with revneal on a cruiseship as well.

He is truly an asset to his profession, IMHO. :) Not often you find such a fine sense of humor...

[Lois R]

Hi Jean:) So now we need a bigger table...Rev, you, me, Heather and Hubby, Vicar and GF...not sure who else was at our table:D

[HeatherInFlorida]

EKerr, good call. When I saw that name I immediately was puzzled. Noted the individual joined in August and had only 2 posts. Methinks someone's oar is either slightly out of the water or one of the porchlights are out. Who knows which and who really cares;) .

Lois, good for you for getting that table set up:D .

[ekerr19]

Hi Jean:) So now we need a bigger table...Rev, you, me, Heather and Hubby, Vicar and GF...not sure who else was at our table:D
Oh, but which cruise??? doone and I (w/DH & Kids) are on the 3/20/05 Volendam - we'd love to have of you join us!!!! :D

[JohnSax]

I'm sure Rev Neal doesn't let some people's opinions get under his skin too much. I think this was a good topic to bring up as long as we all can be civil about it. As for me, while I don't attend services aboard ship, I do pray daily in the privacy of my cabin, thankful for the good fortune of being there!!! :-)

[Beckey]

I have always tried to live my life by - and the greatest of these is Love thy neighbor. No where does in say - judge your neighbor then decide to if you love him. I am glad God did not put me in charge of judging just loving.

Recently I was on a flight, as I sat down the man next to me was talking to the person next to him about "gays" and how they were all headed for hell. Well, I got at my book and started to read - as long as they do not address me I will let this pass. This was not to happen - I am Catholic and wear a medal of the Blessed Mother - the guy looks at me and says "I can see by your necklace that you are not a Christian. I would like to talk to you about your salvation".

After assuring the man that my salvation was not in question but possibly his was because as far as I knew God had not died and left him in charge. I have to say I went on a bit about how could he claim to be a Christian and prostrate himself in front of the alter when he had hate in his heart for someone he did not know and would never take the time to know. Then I ask to be moved.

Man. I have no idea why I got off on that! All I wanted to say was -

Revneal - you have never tried to be anything but helpful and honest to everyone on this board - I am sadden that someone would find it necessary to accuse you of not being a "True follower of God". I will pray for you also - but my prayer will be that the Lord will continue to bless you and give you a special portion of His grace as you minister to others.

[Vicar]

Ekerr19,

Any ship wil do for me :)

Lois,

Just get the table ready and we will be there :) Don't have cruise planned until next year so far so i am chomping at the bit *LOL* We will be in Las Vegas and Cali, in Oct and then New Orleans in November.

[ekerr19]

Ekerr19,

Any ship wil do for me :)

Lois,

Just get the table ready and we will be there :) Don't have cruise planned until next year so far so i am chomping at the bit *LOL* We will be in Las Vegas and Cali, in Oct and then New Orleans in November.
Seriously guys - doone posted the fare just went down for our 3/20/05 sailing! It would be fun, no doubt!!!! :D

[Vicar]

Ekerr19

Hmmmmm March of 05 is far enough to save a little dough.
Which ship are we talking about and what is the itinerary?

Group of us are planning a cruise for November 2005, leaning toward Mex Riviera, but still up in air.

[ekerr19]

Ekerr19

Hmmmmm March of 05 is far enough to save a little dough.
Which ship are we talking about and what is the itinerary?

Group of us are planning a cruise for November 2005, leaning toward Mex Riviera, but still up in air.The Volendam (a fun ship - I've heard :D ) departs 3/20/05 out of FLL. It is an Eastfarer Caribbean cruise.

email me if you need a TA - ours got us a pretty good deal. :)

Here is the link:http://www.hollandamerica.com/dest/itinerary.do?selectedItin=2005032005VOFF00002090&dest=020000

[Vicar]

Ekerr19


that does sound interesting
will discuss this with GF , of course she will be my fiancee by then *LOL*.

I am pretty flexible with vacation time , she is the one with the tighter schedule

Does sound like alot of fun though
Thanks :)

[ekerr19]

Ekerr19


that does sound interesting
will discuss this with GF , of course she will be my fiancee by then *LOL*.

I am pretty flexible with vacation time , she is the one with the tighter schedule

Does sound like alot of fun though
Thanks :)
Maybe a wedding on board????

Let me know - we'd love to cruise with you :D - I'm sure doone would too. We are excited to meet up with her.

[srpilo]

I must say that my opinion of Revneal has gone up several notches today...


Today he acted and spoke like a true man of God.. IMO Tolerance is always one of God's requirements , reguardless of which Club you belong to.


I'll gladly share my table with him on any cruise...


Peace and Thanks..
Srpilo

[Vicar]

Ekerr19

Hmmmmmm a wedding on board, that would certainly limit my GFs mother from inviting the 2000 close personal friends and family I am sure she has in mind *LOL*

[Lois R]

Hi Pete:D we only have 13 more days after today!!!! Can I get a BIG WOOOHOOOOO:D :D :D :D Hi Beckey!

[HeatherInFlorida]

3/20/05 is sounding good to me. I have to look at that! And out of FLL!!! Too perfect. Especially since DH and I are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary on 4/13/05 (yes, we married very late ... his second, my first:D ).

EKerr we posted at the exact same time so I'm wondering if you saw mine just above yours;) . BTW, love your pic! New, right?

[Vicar]

Heather

Was thinking about that myself,

Mom is in Boca, go down spend a few days with her and then head down to FLL and catch the ship. This is definately doable.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Yes, it sounds great:) . Trouble is I couldn't let DH know that I know any of you because he thinks your all a bunch of kooks! Kidding!!!!!:D Basically, he's just not comfortable with the internet and cannot understand how I can exchange information with people I don't know.

We're doing the Eastern in November so I'm not sure how he'd react to that either. I'm going to take a look though. It would be such fun. Anyone know if it's a 7 or a 10?

[Jacqueline]

I have always tried to live my life by - and the greatest of these is Love thy neighbor. No where does in say - judge your neighbor then decide to if you love him. I am glad God did not put me in charge of judging just loving.t, as I All I wanted to say was -[/color][/size][/font]

Revneal - you have never tried to be anything but helpful and honest to everyone on this board - I am sadden that someone would find it necessary to accuse you of not being a "True follower of God". I will pray for you also - but my prayer will be that the Lord will continue to bless you and give you a special portion of His grace as you minister to others.

Good outlook to have- judging other people is pretty grandiose...And very few in the thread actually went in that direction. As for believing that anyone can speak directly for God in terms of judging fellow man well lets just say that there is a medication for that ! AS I vaguely remember from my 16 years of Catholic education, Christ seemed to have spent a lot of time with those those that society scorned (prostitutes, criminals, samaritans). What was the line- "let those without sin cast the first stone" ?

On the Rev- i think we all respect his love and tolerance. I am sure that none of us is loosing any sleep over the pronouncements of a confused person. This is an OBSERVATION as opposed to a judgement.

[Vicar]

Heather

Kooks eh?

hmmmm he doesn't even know us and he has us pretty well pegged *LOL*
My mom is the same way, she can't believe these people that chat on line a few months and then fly across the country and meet these people. I chalk it up to a generation thing *LOL*

Yea we have the cruise in Nov 05 ourselves and then next June my daughter graduates High school and then there is college ( excuse me a sceond I am screaming uncontrollably) Ok I am back *LOL*

But maybe this can be done , have to do some checking:)

[Vicar]

I have seen several instances where the Rev has taken a good flamming and has always been a gentleman. He simply explains his position, apologizes if he has offended and has never resorted to sinking to his accusers level.

He is a very kind, insightful, and intelligent man. with a wonderful sense of humor may I add. :)

We are all the better for having him in our group here.

[ekerr19]

3/20/05 is sounding good to me. I have to look at that! And out of FLL!!! Too perfect. Especially since DH and I are celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary on 4/13/05 (yes, we married very late ... his second, my first:D ).

EKerr we posted at the exact same time so I'm wondering if you saw mine just above yours;) . BTW, love your pic! New, right?
OMG- Heather I missed yours... We would be HONORED to help you celebrate your 20th wedding anniversary - in style - NO LESS!!! :D Vicar, how would you like doone, Heather and I to attend your wedding??? It would be fun - we'd make sure... :D

So, Vicar can get married - DH and I can celebrate 18 years on 03/07/05, you and your DH celebrate 20 big ones... WOW - what a great group...

Thanks about the pic, yes, it is new - I had problems uploading to this site because the original is much larger - but I'm going to try another, just to play around with it. :)

[Vicar]

EKerr19

hmmmm This does sound like it will be alot of fun

Have been toying with the idea of elopeing , my Mom would be cool with it cause her children have given her MANY weddings to attend *LOL*

GFs Mom would have fit though. *LOL* and she is just starting to like me *LOL*

But the cruise itself does sound great :)

[ekerr19]

[QUOTE=HeatherInFlorida]Yes, it sounds great:) . Trouble is I couldn't let DH know that I know any of you because he thinks your all a bunch of kooks! Kidding!!!!!:D Basically, he's just not comfortable with the internet and cannot understand how I can exchange information with people I don't know. [QUOTE]

Heather - my DH kind of felt the same way until he met all the fantastic "CC" buddies on our Maasdam sailing. He was in awe that we knew so much of each other and that we ALL got along fantastically... :) :) They welcomed him as if they'd known him forever (my fault - I must admit, I shared quite a bit about him on the Roll-Calls) but in the end he was just so THRILLED! We still think of this cruise as the one where we met soooo many fantastic people. :D It was a real treat for our entire family.

[Vicar]

If we are gonna do this trip , we need to get S7S on board too.
This crazy group needs a den mother *LOL* :) :) :)

[ekerr19]

If we are gonna do this trip , we need to get S7S on board too.
This crazy group needs a den mother *LOL* :) :) :)
Vicar- I'm not so sure S7S would want that job... :)

[Vicar]

Put her up in a Penthouse suite on a HAL ship.

I don't think she will put up too much of a fight *LOL*

[ekerr19]

Put her up in a Penthouse suite on a HAL ship.

I don't think she will put up too much of a fight *LOL*
Oh, I agree - but who is paying??? :D Sail? Are you out there?

[Lois R]

Hmmm....my Dad is 83..he isn't real comfortable using the internet himself but he thinks its wonderful I have met people on here:D ....he gets a real "kick" when I tell him we have "ROLL CALLS" for the cruises;) .
I have tried to tell him, "Daddy, the internet should enhance your life, not make it more difficult"...but hey, he has done pretty well for himself for the last 83 years...so if the internet isn't his thing that is ok too....he still plays raquetball twice a week and is in better shape than his 46 year old daughter!

[RevNeal]

I'm out on the town for just a few hours, and come back and check the board and discover such nice remarks!

I think you are a wonderful person and maybe we could sit together at dinner on a cruiseship one day

THANK YOU LOIS. I appreciate your words, GREATLY. And, I would LOVE to have dinner with you on a cruise ship!

[Lois R]

Your welcome:) and I am off to bed....see everyone tomorrow

[RevNeal]

I would love to meet up with revneal on a cruiseship as well.

He is truly an asset to his profession, IMHO. Not often you find such a fine sense of humor...

Thank you so much ekerr19. It's a sense of humor which makes it possible to go through life without crying my eyes out at the inhumanity I see all too often. We either have to laugh or cry. I prefer to laugh and find joy and the grace of God everywhere I turn.

[Vicar]

EKerr19

Hmmmmm
well she always says her DH knows that when she is happy, everybody is happy *LOL*
Maybe she can work on him a little *LOL*

[RevNeal]

So now we need a bigger table...Rev, you, me, Heather and Hubby, Vicar and GF...not sure who else was at our table

What a GREAT table it would be. We would be the envy of the entire ship! :D

[ekerr19]

Hmmm....my Dad is 83..he isn't real comfortable using the internet himself but he thinks its wonderful I have met people on here:D ....he gets a real "kick" when I tell him we have "ROLL CALLS" for the cruises;) .
I have tried to tell him, "Daddy, the internet should enhance your life, not make it more difficult"...but hey, he has done pretty well for himself for the last 83 years...so if the internet isn't his thing that is ok too....he still plays raquetball twice a week and is in better shape than his 46 year old daughter!Oh Lois - a person after my own heart... :D

My Mom & Dad love (mostly Mom) to email us all the time - when she gets a computer virus or a hi-jacked home page she is so stuck!!! :confused:

She still can't believe these forums exist either - I tell her - but I think she's got a virus again - she does not know how to update her virus scan or Ad-Aware (free download - I recommend to all) or anything else.

To me, it is a shame the scammers get away with all the crap they do - my parents try so hard to use the internet and keep informed - but they just don't have the saavy to do so... it's even hard for me, let alone them!

The past week I BATTLED a home page hi-jacker that even stole my permissions in Regedit - I took me forever to figure out what had happened. I think I'll post this on a seperate thread for those who are not so computer literate... this has become a huge problem for all!

[RevNeal]

Oh, but which cruise??? doone and I (w/DH & Kids) are on the 3/20/05 Volendam - we'd love to have of you join us!

That would be great. I'd LOVE to cruise on the Volendam in March ... that would be over my birthday. I'll have just cruised on the Oosterdam, so it would be fun to cruise again just a month later!! Let me look at it.

[RevNeal]

Revneal - you have never tried to be anything but helpful and honest to everyone on this board - I am sadden that someone would find it necessary to accuse you of not being a "True follower of God". I will pray for you also - but my prayer will be that the Lord will continue to bless you and give you a special portion of His grace as you minister to others.

Thank you so much Becky, I appreciate your prayers and your words! Bless you!

[RevNeal]

I must say that my opinion of Revneal has gone up several notches today...

Today he acted and spoke like a true man of God.. IMO Tolerance is always one of God's requirements , reguardless of which Club you belong to.

I'll gladly share my table with him on any cruise...

Thank you so much, srpilo. I appreciate your kind words!

[Vicar]

EKerr19

My Mom is the same way

She can e mail , and she likes to play solitaire on line
and of course she can shop on line *LOL* but that is about it, and that is all she cares about as far as the internet goes.

Thank God she is in good health and very active. She would rather be out with her friends going to restaurants and shows and trips.

[RevNeal]

On the Rev- i think we all respect his love and tolerance. I am sure that none of us is loosing any sleep over the pronouncements of a confused person. This is an OBSERVATION as opposed to a judgement.

Thank you very much, Jacqueline. And, you're correct ... I'm certainly not loosing any sleep, or worrying about, words or pronouncements here. I normally just allow most of it to roll off my back.

[RevNeal]

I have seen several instances where the Rev has taken a good flamming and has always been a gentleman. He simply explains his position, apologizes if he has offended and has never resorted to sinking to his accusers level.

He is a very kind, insightful, and intelligent man. with a wonderful sense of humor may I add.

We are all the better for having him in our group here.

Gee, Vicar, if you keep saying all these kind things about me I'll have to increase my paypal deposit to your bank account! ;)

Thanks! I appreciate you and your kind words.

[RevNeal]

So, Vicar can get married - DH and I can celebrate 18 years on 03/07/05, you and your DH celebrate 20 big ones... WOW - what a great group...

And if I go on that cruise we'll also be able to celebrate my -- ah, eh, um -- 48th birthday on March 21. :D

[Vicar]

REV

You are very welcome :)

And no financial thanks is needed , now if you need a butler to go along with you on your Alaska cruise , I would definately consider that *LOL*

[ekerr19]

And if I go on that cruise we'll also be able to celebrate my -- ah, eh, um -- 48th birthday on March 21. :Doh geez, revneal!! We need another celebration!

I can join you - 4/01/05 I will have the HONOR of turning 45 :D

Who cares how old we are!!! We earned it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JMHO! :)

[Vicar]

Ekerr19

Just looked up the Volendam trip

that is a nice trip!!! beautiful ship too
I mean nassau would be a sea day for me , but that would be cool, St thomas I loved , and tortola and Barbados I have never been to so that would be great .

and it leaves out of FLL so I could get down there a few days earlier and see my mom in Boca .
hmmmmmm the wheels are spinning here :)

[ekerr19]

Thank you so much ekerr19. It's a sense of humor which makes it possible to go through life without crying my eyes out at the inhumanity I see all too often. We either have to laugh or cry. I prefer to laugh and find joy and the grace of God everywhere I turn.
Ah, Rev - it's always been my pleasure... :) I feel I am a better person for having interacted with you on these boards. I commend you for keeping an even head and taking all the "pot-shots" in stride.

You "walk the talk" and that is hard to come by in this day and age. :)

Injustice and inhumanity are far too prevalent in our society - it is nice to see that there are members of the clergy out there who still recognize this fact, and still willing to address the issue.

I'd be honored to sail with you and your family at some point in the future. :)

[ekerr19]

Ekerr19

Just looked up the Volendam trip

that is a nice trip!!! beautiful ship too
I mean nassau would be a sea day for me , but that would be cool, St thomas I loved , and tortola and Barbados I have never been to so that would be great .

and it leaves out of FLL so I could get down there a few days earlier and see my mom in Boca .
hmmmmmm the wheels are spinning here :)
Vicar - We have the beach for you guys in Barbados!!! My DH loves Barbados - we also LOVE Tortola!!! We know where to go - you guys would love it and we'd have a BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!! We also know how to have a good time :D

My uncle has a home in Naples, and I have traveled on business to West Palm Beach a few times... maybe we could pop in on Heather???? How far away is Boca? After you visit Boca, we could all meet up in FLL perhaps...

[RevNeal]

I'm VERY tempted by this Volendam Cruise March 20, 2005. The rates, even with the single Supplement, are excellent.

Can I manage 3 cruises in 2005?
Oosterdam Feb 5
Veendam Nov 26
Volendam March 20

???

I MIGHT be able to afford that ... I'm not certain. The Oosterdam cruise is going to be nice ... and the Veendam Cruise is GREAT. The Volendam cruise would be, entirely, for the "heck of it." I wish Chris could go with me, but that wouldn't be possible.

[ekerr19]

Revneal, Lois - are you guys up for this??? Check out the 3/20/05 sailing of the Volendam... according to doone, the price went down today...

[Vicar]

That is what I am thinking
I have acruise in the works for next year with a group of friends
plus my daughter is graduating high school next june and then college will be coming up

Have to work out the finances and see if GF can get the time off
but it looks like a really great trip

[ekerr19]

I'm VERY tempted by this Volendam Cruise March 20, 2005. The rates, even with the single Supplement, are excellent.

Can I manage 3 cruises in 2005?
Oosterdam Feb 5
Veendam Nov 26
Volendam March 20

???

I MIGHT be able to afford that ... I'm not certain. The Oosterdam cruise is going to be nice ... and the Veendam Cruise is GREAT. The Volendam cruise would be, entirely, for the "heck of it." I wish Chris could go with me, but that wouldn't be possible.
Revneal - you only live once!!!

Check with your TA - HAL's online pricing is still well above ours. :)

We wish Chris could go too... :(

[ekerr19]

That is what I am thinking
I have acruise in the works for next year with a group of friends
plus my daughter is graduating high school next june and then college will be coming up

Have to work out the finances and see if GF can get the time off
but it looks like a really great trip
Vicar -

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help - we do have a great TA - wish I could mention the details here - but I can't.... suffice it to say the owner of the agency we use is married to the CEO of HAL.

If you are interested in the "deets", just email me :D

[Vicar]

EKerr19

just looking at some of the prices and they are very good

GF has a TA she uses for work and personal , thank you much for offering, I will talk this over with GF see what her TA can offer and then I will let you know.

Just curious

which category of outside rooms have balconys. It didn't say on the site and having never sailed HAL I am not familiar with the category letters

[ekerr19]

EKerr19

just looking at some of the prices and they are very good

GF has a TA she uses for work and personal , thank you much for offering, I will talk this over with GF see what her TA can offer and then I will let you know.

Just curious

which category of outside rooms have balconys. It didn't say on the site and having never sailed HAL I am not familiar with the category lettersVicar-

On the Volendam it would be "S" Suite, "A", "B" and "BB" and "BC" - I think the "BC" is the guarantee verandah cabin.

OOPs, I forgot one - in case your interested, the Penthouse Suite is the "PS" and it does have a large balcony ;)

[Vicar]

EKERR19

Whoa whoa easy with the S and the PS *LOL*

Those I know $$$$$$$$$$$$ *LOL*

thank you very much I will have to show these to GF :)

[ekerr19]

EKERR19

Whoa whoa easy with the S and the PS *LOL*

Those I know $$$$$$$$$$$$ *LOL*

thank you very much I will have to show these to GF :)
Vicar-

Hey, you could be Sail in disguise - or one of Sail's children, LOL :D ...

but, I always hedge MY bets and tell it like it is!!!

[Vicar]

Oh well if I am going as one of Sails kids
and "Mom " is paying for it then I will book an "S"

*LOL*

[Vicar]

actually if we do go
I would probably book an inside room this time
seeing this is just such a spur of the moment impulsive thing.

[ekerr19]

actually if we do go
I would probably book an inside room this time
seeing this is just such a spur of the moment impulsive thing.We always book cheap - we sail with the kids, don't be embarassed - honestly no one really gives a hoot or a rat's a#$... :cool:

[Vicar]

Oh no
not that at all

just when we plan these things out we at least get an OV but prefer a balcony.

Not a big deal at all for us , I know what you mean , I am the last one to give a rats A** where anyone is sleeping as long as everyone has a great time. :)

[ekerr19]

Vicar - You are up too late tonight!!! It's like 1:00 am here in Denver, so it must be like 3:00 am where you are --- I need to sign off, I can't even type correctly... :D

See ya in the AM, oops I mean LATER in the am...

[Vicar]

Okay
have a good night, I'll talk to you later :)

[ekerr19]

Okay
have a good night, I'll talk to you later :)
Bye-Bye... talk to you tomorrow. I've enjoyed this tonight. :)

[Lois R]

Hi:) I guess I got carried away with this thread a bit...I really don't want to commit to another HAL cruise until I return from my first one.
Just being honest....I want to see If I enjoy my experience and will go from there.
Ya'll are a nice group of people though:D .....but I do hope you understand....lets see how this cruise on the Z goes for me!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Good Grief!!!!!:eek: Do you know you guys completed almost 2 full pages after I went to bed last night??? Are you nuts??? Boy did I miss out.

First, I don't think Sail has been on this thread so she can't know you've invited her. Second, if she's the den mother than you've got 2 because I get the sense we're of similar age.

I floated the idea of a March vacation with DH this morning and was greeted with practically an "............are you out of your mind????":D . We've never taken vacation 4 months apart and he's still working full time. But I'm going to take a looksee (which I haven't done yet) and you just never know. It is, after all, a big deal anniversary!

Revneal, though there were no posts by me on this particular thread about you, I have to say that if I see a thread that you've not posted I figure it's just not a worthwhile thread;) . I just don't know how you find the time to do it with all your other obligations. But I, too, find your observations a wonderful addition and your patience remarkable.

So good morning Sleepyheads!!!!!:) Up and at 'em!!!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Since you're all sleeping in this morning, I have this thread to myself. Just checked this cruise and it is a bit pricey for us, but believe it or not I mentioned it to my DH and he said "maybe"!:) So we will see.

EKerr, I know who you mean and have that agent on my "favorites". Can't figure out their website. Do you just email them and tell them what you want and they get back to you? I've put in a request for a price from my agent and got a price from a "discount" TA. You just never know, but I'm doin' the "new cruise" dance:D

Have any of you actually booked this cruise? I can't remember.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Get up! Get up!;) I just priced this cruise and then took a look at the Volendam leaving FLL on 3/10/05 for 10 days. It is over $1000 less!!! So I don't think we'll be joining you folks:) . I can't believe the difference. We like a verandah and are perfectly happy with B category. On your 3/20 cruise the cost looks about $4200 for a BB. For the 3/10 in the Western Caribbean (several ports being the same) I'm seeing a price around $3000 for a B category!

Much as I want to meet and greet all of you, no way I could rationalize $1200.

Love it if you'd all rise and shine soon;)

[gliles]

Ok Heather, you seem so lonely so I thought I would pop in. I'd love to go on it too but we can't plan that far ahead of time. With 2 in college and one in Jr Hi we never ever know what kind of expenses are going to come up with car trouble and all the other little things kids come up with.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Well, thank goodness someone's up:D . Hi Gretchen! I totally understand and I wouldn't even be peeking at it either if this group hadn't stirred the pot.

I've futzed here long enough for a bit so I have to do some real life stuff:) . When the rest of you finally decide to greet the day, please make sure you see all 3 or my posts above, okay??? It's been like whistling in the wind these last couple of hours and it's almost 1:00 here in the East.

[Lois R]

Hi Heather:) I have been up....was on here early then had to leave for a bit;)

Do you ever shop at BEALLS? I LOVE THAT STORE:D ...anyway, I had purchased a necklace a couple of weeks ago...but when I tried it on again with the top I have, it just didn't sit right on my neck .........and I had thrown out the receipt:eek: ........anyway, BEALLS is soooooo good! I shop there all the time...told the Manager I should own some stock LOL. Anyway...took the necklace back and found something else today~looks great and feels better around my neck! So I am happy!

Hope you and hubby are doing well...tell him I said hi....wonder what would think of that? You said he thinks we are all kooks? LOL Tell him...I am one, but a nice kook:)

Talk to you later!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Well, he's a bit kookish himself;) . Yes, I love Bealls. Love their housewares, too. And I get those special 15% days for us girls over 50. Right now, though, I'm staying out of the stores and instead play here on the CC boards. It's a lot cheaper. Of course I'm not completely safe because one can make purchases on the internet:D .

Did you see the difference in that price between the 3/10 and 3/20 on the Volendam? Huge! I don't know if you use a discount agent, but now that Celebrity is no longer allowing any discounting whatsoever you may find yourself sailing away a lot more on HAL. You may want to take a look at the link I posted about it on the thread called something like "interesting letter from my TA" by EKerr.

[Lois R]

Hi:) Nope, I didn't look at either sailing......as I am waiting to see how I enjoy my upcomping cruise first.
I pay more anyway...(solo) but at least for this one HAL had a very good price:)

[MISSYLOU]

Annebill: I think you may have misunderstood me. You did not offend me another poster was out line, certainly not you.

[imsulin]

Here's another "vote" in support of Rev Neal, who has only shown his knowledge of religious history, his tolerance all around, his support and information about cruising, and his humor!

Rev Neal.....would you PLEASE, PLEASE, go on the 4-9-05 Zuiderdam??? I promise NOT to spike the Communion wine (maybe), I promise to be observant during services (meaning I will NOT make paper airplanes out of pledge envelopes), I promise to adhere to the liturgy (while fondly remembering my karaoke renditions of "Jumpin' Jack Flash"), and I promise to obey the laws of God...once I disembark. That's the best I can do! My good buddy JACQUELINE will pay for any extra expenses, and I will limit my dirty jokes to two per day. Er..two per hour.

[boards]

Give it a rest, I think enough have has been said. Time to end the thread.

[imsulin]

Not without hearing from Rev Neal first.

[boards]

I'll wait till our cruise together in Nov. 2005, so I can have a personal chic-chat with him in private, just like they should have done at the supper table that night.

[SHayesShip]

I pray in cabin and silently before each meal.


Ok .... here's a new poll. In what kinds of religious expression do you engage while on a cruise???

[Tinknock50]

I pray in cabin and silently before each meal.
Hi Steve:)

[RevNeal]

...would you PLEASE, PLEASE, go on the 4-9-05 Zuiderdam?

I'm sorry ... I can't. :)
And, sadly, I can't make the March 20th Cruise on the Volendam. That's Holy Week and Easter next year -- yes, that's right, Easter in 2005 is early.

Oh, well! There are always other cruises.

[RevNeal]

I'll wait till our cruise together in Nov. 2005, so I can have a personal chic-chat with him in private, just like they should have done at the supper table that night.

I'm looking forward to that cruise ... it's going to be a nice trip. :)

[Anorak33]

Boards posted :

"Give it a rest, I think enough have has been said. Time to end the thread."

I'm with him/her on this - although the photos of the cute pets has been good!

Great discussion RevNeal , has helped me understand where my fellow cruisers are coming from in some ways so I can be more "sensitive" in future and not put my big foot in my mouth accidentally.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I'm sorry ... I can't. :)
And, sadly, I can't make the March 20th Cruise on the Volendam. That's Holy Week and Easter next year -- yes, that's right, Easter in 2005 is early.

Oh, well! There are always other cruises.Ohhhhhhh.....well, that explains the price difference then. I couldn't figure out why the 3/10 10 day Western on the Volendam was a thousand $$$ less than the 3/20 10 day Eastern on the same ship. It made no sense. Now it does.

It all cancels all possibility of us going because we try not to travel when the schools are out:) ..... not that we have anything against kids! We just like to pour money into the economy when everybody else isn't;) .

[DiveCruiser]

:rolleyes: We lead a singles group each year. We have our own public devotion every day we are @ sea. Bob:)

[RevNeal]

Anorak33, I agree. This thread has been very helpful to me, too, and I also believe that it has pretty much run its course. It'll naturally die, though some people may continue to vote on it. :)

Speaking of the poll, I am actually VERY surprised at the distribution of votes on the poll. before taking the poll I never would have thought that so many people would state that they engage in some form of religious expression while aboard ship. I expected the option "Do not engage in any religious expressions (at least while on a cruise)" to score closer closer to 50-55%, not the 36-37% which it actually got.

[dakrewser]

Speaking of the poll, I am actually VERY surprised at the distribution of votes on the poll. before taking the poll I never would have thought that so many people would state that they engage in some form of religious expression while aboard ship. I expected the option "Do not engage in any religious expressions (at least while on a cruise)" to score closer closer to 50-55%, not the 36-37% which it actually got.Must be some other explanation for the attendance figures for your sermons, then! :rolleyes:

-dave

[HeatherInFlorida]

Still, you also have to consider that the very subject of this thread would draw people with at least some religious leaning. You're probably not going to get a lot of the people who simply have no interest at all in the subject.

[digby]

Still, you also have to consider that the very subject of this thread would draw people with at least some religious leaning. You're probably not going to get a lot of the people who simply have no interest at all in the subject.


Or you will get people who just don't want other's religions rubbed in their face!

[cruisinpaige]

Ok .... here's a new poll. In what kinds of religious expression do you engage while on a cruise???
This is my first HAL cruise and whiule I was doing the DOC dance today, I realuzed I can go to church on board. Why not, I think it is cool.:)

[RevNeal]

Still, you also have to consider that the very subject of this thread would draw people with at least some religious leaning. You're probably not going to get a lot of the people who simply have no interest at all in the subject.

Granted, it's not a scientific poll. Nevertheless, the results do reflect -- if not a proper sampling of HAL passengers -- at least a cross section of those who visit this board.

[RevNeal]

Or you will get people who just don't want other's religions rubbed in their face!

Yes, indeed ... which is part of the reason I posted the poll and the thread ... to get responses on the subject from all across the spectrum. And, I have. :)

[SHayesShip]

Hey Sean!

Hi Steve:)

[imsulin]

Easter 2005 is on March 27. Holy Week would begin on March 21. (This from a known Communion wine "enhancer", Pastor's nightmare, and flagrant abuser of ritual). Guess that's why I booked the Zui for 4-9-05! Plus the fact that it was a lot cheaper.

[RevNeal]

Easter 2005 is on March 27. Holy Week would begin on March 21. (This from a known Communion wine "enhancer", Pastor's nightmare, and flagrant abuser of ritual). Guess that's why I booked the Zui for 4-9-05!

You are correct about the date of Easter in 2005. However ... and I hate to be picky ... but Holy Week begins with Palm/Passion Sunday; in 2005 that will be March 20th. :)

[Vicar]

REV

I didn't realize that easter was that either until you pointed it out .

My Mom comes up from Florida for the holiday. Which is one of the reasons I can't go on that Volendam cruise cruise.

SIGH, oh well I guess I just have to wait until next November to cruise :(


But you have that beautiful Zaandam cruise to look forward to you Snoopy Doc dancer you *LOL*

Enjoy

[Orcrone]

We're already booked on the Zuiderdam eastern Caribbean on March 26. Why don't you all join us on that one? The price is right and I'll be there.:D

[Orcrone]

I didn't read this thread until today. If I were reading it as it evolved I have no idea how many posts I would have. However, as most of it was written days ago I'm just going to throw in some observations. About my background. I was brought up Jewish, but in a family that did not practice the religion. After my Bar Mitzvah my involvement with my faith pretty much ended. My wife is Christian and several years ago I was saved.

Revneal - I really hope that one day I have the opportunity to meet you. My brother is gay, and I've heard so many anti-gay comments. Unfortunately many of them are from people who are so-called 'religious' people. Jesus was asked "what is the most important commandment". The person asking the question only asked for one. Jesus' answer was "love the lord with all your heart, with all your strength, with all your mind and with all your strength". He then went on to say "love your neighbor as yourself". Even though he was asked for one commandment he gave two, love God and love your neighbor. These two things are so important that he put them above all others. If only people, regardless of their faith, would remember these, then think of how much better we would be.

For my second point I just want to say that I'm directing this at no one in particular. I just ask that if anyone decides to pray out loud during a cruise (or any other public gathering) they first search themselves. Jesus admonished the pharises who stood on the street praying long prayers for everyone to hear. He tells us to go to a quiet place alone, just you and God and speak your heart. Because when it's just you and God you're being yourself and not putting on a show for others. When we're at home, or even in a restaurant, we'll pray before eating. However, I would feel uncomfortable sitting with other people on the cruise and asking them to do the same, unless I knew they wished to. I think Roboat had an excellent point about people having the best intentions, but others still feeling forced to pray because of how it would look if they declined.

One last point. Ask yourself how you would feel if a Muslim family at your table prayed to Allah before dinner. It's one thing if you're fine with it, but if you would be offended then you have no business asking someone of another faith to join in your prayer.

[FlorenceItaly]

Well said, Marc. Thank you.

Marie

[Orcrone]

Well said, Marc. Thank you.

MarieThank you Marie. BTW, I haven't been spending much time this last week on the board. You may have already posted, but I was wondering if you enjoyed your cruise.

Marc

[Vicar]

Orcrone,

I would love too, unfortunately there are a few other factors besides Easter.

Gf may not be able to get time off, Plus my daughter will be graduating HS in June and I will be shelling out big bucks for College and all that fun stuff.

Plus we do have plans for a cruise in November with friends.

I really would love to though, I think we would have the Z Rockin and Rollin *LOL*

[Orcrone]

Vicar,

I understand. My daughter is also entering her senior year of high school, with my other daughter four years behind. So it's going to be eight years in a row (hopefully) of college for me.

[FlorenceItaly]

Hi Marc - I did post a mini review and some random thoughts. I suppose it is a few pages back. I had a wonderful time. ALASKA is GORGEOUS!!!!!!!

I hope to cut my time back on the board. In fact, I am in the process of unsubscribing myself to all the "cruise deal" websites that appear in my mailbox daily...just don't need the temptation :). I met some wonderful people on the Veendam, and we talked about a reunion cruise in June on the Conquest, but dh says no go(rightly so)....already have 3 booked and that is enough. If we weren't already committed to friends I would cancel one of them.

I hope all is well with you and yours.

Marie

[Orcrone]

Marie,

Glad you had a great time. I'll have to look for that review. I went away with DW and our daughters to her family reunion this past weekend. We're trying to convince them to come out to VA for next year's reunion. Now that that's over the next thing we have to look forward to is the Maasdam. Under two months to go.

Marc

[RevNeal]

Dear Marc,

Thank you for your very kind, and very true, words.

[RevNeal]

Given the latest hurricane developments, I cannot help but wonder how much praying is going on. ;)

Perhaps some of our Native Americans brethren and sistren can perform some anti-hurricane dances ... or some such?

[AlinaMaria]

How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God. But then when we are desperate we all remember Him and ask for his always present Love and Mercy. For the first time I traveled on HAL last Feb on the Rotterdam and I will choose HAL as much as possible, I did go to Daily Mass, I found it such a spiritual uplift and relaxing way to start or end my day! Because of my job I don't get to go to Daily Mass often, the ability to do this on my 10 day cruise was a very special gift from God and from HAL. I had only had this same opportunity on a cruise on Celebrity Cruises where a church group was travelling with their priest/spiritual director, they held Daily Mass and it was published on the dailies. As to praying at meals time, I chose praying in silence because I don't impose my faith on anyone, but when I have traveled with my church group or have dinner alone with my mother we do pray outloud but softly, and I do not feel embarrased to do the Sign of the Cross in public, I am not embarrased to show that I am a practicing Christian Catholic. This is one of the reasons my parents sacrificed their lives and future to bring their family from Cuba to the Land of Freedom!!!! Yes, I do read Christian books during my vacation, I do not find many other books that interest me, except for books on history and arts, and of course nursing (my profession) but reading nursing during vacation is not relaxing. I am presently a graduate student working on my Master in Pastoral Ministry and I find that there is such an inmense selection of good books!!! I do respect everyone's choice, including those that choose not to worship our Lord during their vacation, but I do expect that my right to Praise Him is respected too, that is why HAL and Costa will get most of my business.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
PS: Please pray for us in Florida during this difficult weekend when Hurricane Frances is approaching our beautiful state!

AlinaMaria

[Thoth]

How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God. But then when we are desperate we all remember Him and ask for his always present Love and Mercy. For the first time I traveled on HAL last Feb on the Rotterdam and I will choose HAL as much as possible, I did go to Daily Mass, I found it such a spiritual uplift and relaxing way to start or end my day! Because of my job I don't get to go to Daily Mass often, the ability to do this on my 10 day cruise was a very special gift from God and from HAL. I had only had this same opportunity on a cruise on Celebrity Cruises where a church group was travelling with their priest/spiritual director, they held Daily Mass and it was published on the dailies. As to praying at meals time, I chose praying in silence because I don't impose my faith on anyone, but when I have traveled with my church group or have dinner alone with my mother we do pray outloud but softly, and I do not feel embarrased to do the Sign of the Cross in public, I am not embarrased to show that I am a practicing Christian Catholic. This is one of the reasons my parents sacrificed their lives and future to bring their family from Cuba to the Land of Freedom!!!! Yes, I do read Christian books during my vacation, I do not find many other books that interest me, except for books on history and arts, and of course nursing (my profession) but reading nursing during vacation is not relaxing. I am presently a graduate student working on my Master in Pastoral Ministry and I find that there is such an inmense selection of good books!!! I do respect everyone's choice, including those that choose not to worship our Lord during their vacation, but I do expect that my right to Praise Him is respected too, that is why HAL and Costa will get most of my business.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
PS: Please pray for us in Florida during this difficult weekend when Hurricane Frances is approaching our beautiful state!

AlinaMaria
Amen to whay all you said! I go to the interdenominational service to just show thanks for allowed to get away on a cruise. That week does seem to help cleanse my spirit. My prayer for the good people of Florida is that none perish.

[digby]

"How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God."


What I think is sad that you or any other person would presume to judge another's spiritual condition or their relationship to God! Somehow I don't think God would approve.

[cruzincurt]

I need some help here to understand some of this. Can someone point out to me where in the bible it says that to pray to or to praise God you have to gather in a building specially built for the purpose or to attend mass? Perhaps it isn't fair for HAL to single out one religion, say Catholic, and offer mass every day?

Doesn't the bible instead say something like: "whenever two or more are gathered in my name, I am there?" Doesn't mention having to have a church building or a mass.

Then there is that deal about a camel passing through an eye of a needle?

[RevNeal]

This is a theological question, and only partly related to Cruising, but I'll go ahead and address it from within the context of my setting in ministry (i.e., a protestant United Methodist anglo-catholic).

I need some help here to understand some of this. Can someone point out to me where in the bible it says that to pray to or to praise God you have to gather in a building specially built for the purpose or to attend mass?

Firstly, there is nothing in Christian Scripture that says one has to gather in a building specially built for the purpose. Indeed, during the New Testament period the early Christians usually worshiped in the homes of their wealthier members (because those homes were larger).

Secondly, while it is certainly possible to pray, praise, and worship God on one's own, it is usually considered best to gather together with other Christians for these activities. For a scriptural reference to the importance of doing this, see especially Hebrews 10:24-25.

Thirdly, as is true among our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters, many Christian communities provide for the administration of the Sacraments (and, particularly, Holy Communion) only within the context of the representative ministry (i.e. priesthood). Those who are not a part of such a denomination don't, generally, understand or appreciate the importance of this for Christians within such communities.

Perhaps it isn't fair for HAL to single out one religion, say Catholic, and offer mass every day?

Quite the contrary, questions of "fairness" have nothing to do with it ... it's their fleet of ships, they can offer whatever religious services the please. And, quite frankly, they DO. HAL provides options for many religious expressions on board, not just Roman Catholicism. For instance, I'm a volunteer Protestant Chaplain for the line; on cruises of longer than 7-days HAL provides passage for protestant clergy in return for them serving chaplain duties, including pastoral care, preaching, leading prayer services and Bible studies, and even celebrating the Lord's Supper for those protestants who wish it. For cruises which occur over Jewish Holy Days, the line will do the same for a Rabbi so as to enable such worship services; otherwise, Sabbath services are often held by those who wish it.

Doesn't the bible instead say something like: "whenever two or more are gathered in my name, I am there?" Doesn't mention having to have a church building or a mass.

No, it doesn't ... but the traditions of many Christians include public worship and the observance of the Sacramental Means of Grace. While many don't seem to share this need, many others do. Why would one object ... as you seem to be?

Then there is that deal about a camel passing through an eye of a needle?

Yes, indeed. And how do you understand the theological meaning behind that teaching of the Rabbi from Nazareth? Consider carefully what he said, and then consider the luxury cruises we take. :)

[cruzincurt]

Revneal,

Thank you for your kind reply. My point I was trying to make was that many people feel the need to demonstrate their belief's to others such as discussed in the thread about praying and holding hands at the dinner table. I try to lead an honest and ethical life; for me, that is praising God for the bounty He has given to me. Many of my acquaintances tell me I'm condemed if I don't attend church (a building). And I certainly understand the opportunity to share in the fellowship associated with gathering with others to share a common experience.

I think it is outstanding that HAL, a commercial business, has chosen to provide outlets for their customer's spiritual needs.

As for this discussion being off the topic of cruising, people seem to have the need to start such a thread. I wonder what their true intent is for starting the discussion. Are they trying to show that they take their religion with them while the rest of us drink and gamble?

[CDRMark]

Oh Lord, Thy ocean's so large, and my boat is so small.

http://members.dsli.com/schooner/triumph

[RevNeal]

My point I was trying to make was that many people feel the need to demonstrate their belief's to others such as discussed in the thread about praying and holding hands at the dinner table.

Some people do ... that is true. Not all, and even not all of those who are otherwise involved in organized religious practices on cruises. I don't believe in imposing my religious expression, uninvited, upon others.

I try to lead an honest and ethical life; for me, that is praising God for the bounty He has given to me. Many of my acquaintances tell me I'm condemed if I don't attend church (a building). And I certainly understand the opportunity to share in the fellowship associated with gathering with others to share a common experience.

Sounds to me as though you're doing what you need to do; as for what others think you should be doing ... lots of people have their own ideas, and while they may very well be correct and right for them, they're not necessarily correct and right for anyone else. My guess is that it's not so much the building that these people are interested in you attending as it is a particular portion of the "body of Christ." But I'm saying that based not on actual knowledge of these people, just of their "type." I often have people tell me I'm going to hades because I'm not worshiping with them, or as they worship. I ignore them.

I think it is outstanding that HAL, a commercial business, has chosen to provide outlets for their customer's spiritual needs.

I agree. It's among the reasons I continue to do business with them ... and not just because I happen to get an occasional free cruise out of it. :D

As for this discussion being off the topic of cruising, people seem to have the need to start such a thread. I wonder what their true intent is for starting the discussion. Are they trying to show that they take their religion with them while the rest of us drink and gamble?

I started this thread. As I stated in the beginning, it was begun because the question of holding hands in prayer was brought up on another thread where emotions were tender due to the death of a loved one. I felt the need to run a blind poll to enable people, if they so wished and under the cover of anonymity, to share their own opinions and preferences with the whole board. As someone whose full time vocation is to religious ministry, it's a subject I find interesting on an academic as well as personal side. I enjoy meeting all sorts of wonderful people from all sorts of walks of life; be they religious or not, people -- and especially people on cruises -- are great to meet and get to know. Given how important one's religion -- or lack thereof -- can be to people, I thought I'd address the question directly but in as non-threatening a way as possible. I'm sorry if you took my poll and thread as an attempt either at spiritual one-up-manship or judgmentalism. :)

[Anorak33]

I must "plead guilty" to starting the other thread/poll on praying before meals.

Cruzncurt posted:
"As for this discussion being off the topic of cruising, people seem to have the need to start such a thread. I wonder what their true intent is for starting the discussion. Are they trying to show that they take their religion with them while the rest of us drink and gamble?"

I really don't see that I have done that - I am not any sort of "Born-again" Christian, actually a very badly lapsed Catholic. I don't have any religion to take on a cruise.

I must admit I don't gamble ( don't have lots of money to probably lose) but I certainly enjoy a drink or three especially on a cruise when i don't have to drive home.

I was just interested to develop some ideas which came from a thread on here which it would have been in bad taste to continue on that particular thread.

The results of my poll and that of the RevNeal were interesting and especially RevNeal's were not what he or I expected.

As I understood the polls they showed (to put it briefly) that quite a few members take part in some sort of religious activity on board yet only a quarter would be comfortable with praying before meals.

No, my total religious experience on board any ship has been of sharing a dinner table with the chaplain on QE2 (No obvious praying before meals on his part!) and sharing a hottub on Statendam with the chaplain on that ship - who was better known by most passengers for his quizzes than his services.

So my "true intent" was to find out how my fellow members felt about the topic in as even-handed and neutral way as possible.

That's it!

[RevNeal]

No, my total religious experience on board any ship has been of sharing a dinner table with the chaplain on QE2 (No obvious praying before meals on his part!)....

If Cunard has similar guidelines a does HAL, that would not be unusual. We are "encouraged" (i.e., directed) to not be pushy or imposing, but to be willing to lead or participate in such settings. In other words, when identified as the ship's protestant Chaplain I am sometimes asked to offer grace before meals. Not always, however ... and when I'm not asked, I am not supposed to offer. :)

[imsulin]

Hey, Revneal..."A Mighty Fortress Is Our God"...whether that be a cruise ship (my first choice), a church/temple/tabernacle/synagogue/mosque/shrine (don't go very often), or the privacy within which we practice the right things to do and be.

(Ya gotta love Martin Luther! My favorite hymn!)

Revneal...you're my guy!

[garsny]

I am jewish and have gone to a service on HAL.It is on Friday nights.I also say my prayers every day and night.

[vijoge]

I have never attended a religious service while on a cruise. I guess maybe I've never said Grace before a meal (silently or otherwise), either. But I have, on numerous occassions, looked out across the sea at a particularly gorgeous sunset and the only words that came to my mind were "How great Thou art". Can't wait to see the glory of His handiwork in alaska next summer!

[kryos]

"How sad to see that most people think that taking a vacation from work and our daily stressfull life activities also mean taking a vacation from God."

Man, I only wish I could find the time (and energy) to go to services as much as I did on the Zuiderdam! The reason? Simple. I had the time/energy and desire to worship and feel close to my God.

Sadly ... and, yes ... this is probably a lame excuse ... but when I am home, I rarely get the opportunity to go to services ... and I realize I am cheating myself. Oh, my intentions are good. I go to work on Saturday night (I work graveyard shift ... including weekends) and I say to myself, "I'm gonna go to some sort of services tomorrow morning!" Especially if I am feeling sad or depressed, just the thought of going will cheer me up. But then the night progresses ... various problems and issues arise at work ... stress builds ... and by morning, I'm exhausted. "Well, I'll go to services next week." Instead of the peace I know I can find in a house of God, I take my peace in my warm bed.

So, contrary to taking a vacation from God on my Zuiderdam cruise, I took one with him ... and had a great time in so doing.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Celestia]

Interesting question. Been on an assortment of cruises and it has yet to come up, actually. *Have* been asked directly or indirectly what my religion is, but have found that sudden deafness solves this nicely without hurting anyone's feelings.

I think it's nice the ship offeres services for those who want them. They were held in various areas of the ship I had no need of visiting during those times, so it seemed a win-for-all situtation to me.

However, if asked by tablemates to join them in prayer/grace, I'd be talking to maitre'd immediately after the meal for a new table assignment. Not making a fuss, mind you, and not saying anything to the prayerful tablemates, who have every right to worship as they please also, just getting myself moved to a different table.

FW&FS,

C

[kryos]

However, if asked by tablemates to join them in prayer/grace, I'd be talking to maitre'd immediately after the meal for a new table assignment. Not making a fuss, mind you, and not saying anything to the prayerful tablemates, who have every right to worship as they please also, just getting myself moved to a different table.

LOL ... wouldn't that be a bit "overkill?" How about a simple "no thanks, I'm not interested?" If your tablemates ask you to join them, they are probably just making an extra special effort not to leave you out. If you politely refuse, I'm sure they wouldn't ask again. Getting yourself moved could cause you to lose out on some stimulating dinner conversation ... and maybe making a whole lot of new friends who wouldn't care beans about whether or not you wish to pray before dinner.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Celestia]

Note, I didn't say I'd get up and ask for another table RIGHT NOW (that would be overkill), just ask the MD to find me another table for the remainder of the cruise. If it took a couple nights, I wouldn't freak out over it, either. We've also asked to be moved when our companions couldn't find anything at all they liked about the ship/cruise/ports of call/each other (apparently) because their constant negativity was spoiling *our* dinners.

Overkill? Asking for a different table when I've discovered I'll be uncomfortable (for two reasons) at the one I'm assigned?

Don't think so. The question of saying grace (I'm not comfortable with others' public displays of religion) aside, I'm not one for handshaking or hand-holding in most cruise situtations. I'm just back one week ago today from Circle Hawaii on the Statendam, and despite best efforts, a good half the ship were ill either on board on or disembarking day, due to one couple who got on *knowing* (yes, I heard this from their very own mouths) they probably had the flu, but 'we don't have travel insurance so we'd be out all this money'. Well thanks folks...I came down with it the last morning, and have lost a week's work due to it. Today was the first day I was well enough to even think about leaving the house for a couple hours.

(If you fit the profile, and you're thinking about it, go get a flu shot, this one's not fun, folks! My Dr. now tells me if he'd known I was going on a cruise he'd have gotten me one somehow.).

So you see, I'd be spoiling *their* grace, 'cause I'm not going to 'just do' the hand holding thing, and I'd be uncomfortable at table with them. I'm sure I'll find equally scintillating conversation at whatever table the M'D finds for me, and that he will find them compatible dining companions as well.

FS&FW,

C

[Sea Island Lady]

I voted "Pray silently in stateroom."

The truth is... I have never seen where a religious venue is offered. We are Methodist and go to church regularly. I have to admit that we skip the prayer at meals on the ship and at restaurants, but I am going to make an effort to do that this next trip because we never miss saying prayers at home.

Whenever I cruise, I thank God everyday that I am there at sea. :)

[kryos]

The truth is... I have never seen where a religious venue is offered. We are Methodist and go to church regularly. I have to admit that we skip the prayer at meals on the ship and at restaurants, but I am going to make an effort to do that this next trip because we never miss saying prayers at home.

Whenever I cruise, I thank God everyday that I am there at sea. :)

HAL does offer quite a generous menu of services onboard their ships ... on multiple days of the week. Even on my recent Princess Cruise, an interdenominational service was offered on Sundays, led by our captain, and with hymes accompanied by piano.

I guess I'm a lot like you. I don't really pray at meals while onboard ship, though I do like to attend services. I've found that HAL is very accommodating in this regard, probably more so than other cruiselines. I think I attended services during my 14-day Zuiderdam cruise last summer at least six or seven times ... if not Catholic mass, then ones of the interdenominational variety.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AmyinVail]

A gay priest? Oh no - Now I've heard of everything....
Sign me: A huge fan of the CLUB

[NewCruiseFan]

This has been such an interesting thread to follow. Want to thank RevNeal, bepsf and Becky (along with others!) for such thoughtful and sensitive posts. Originally I was a touch prickly at the survey, thinking ones beliefs were private and should remain that way. After reading revneal's posts I decided this man could pretty much ask any question without concern of hidden intent.

I seem to recall that we are, all of us, made in God's image. And, while arguments used to be made for treating persons of color differently than whites it was as silly as doing so based on their gender, sexual persuasion or any of the other protected categories. Two of my favorite churches are led by a Father who opens his doors to the homeless as readily as to the wealthy, and to his gay family as readily as his straight. The other is led by a woman who is our dearly beloved lesbian Reverend.

If someone were to start open prayer at my table I would also ask to be reassigned prior to the next meal - my guess is God would not be the slightest be offended by my doing so nor by my own silent prayers.

[bookworm0911]

A gay priest? Oh no - Now I've heard of everything....
Sign me: A huge fan of the CLUB
Sorry if I am dumb, but what CLUB? :confused:

[RuthC]

Sorry if I am dumb, but what CLUB? :confused:
I wondered if she meant she wanted to beat gay priests with a club, but didn't want to ask in case I was right. :rolleyes:

[p&oposh]

If someone started praying at my table the head waiter would get a tip and I'd be gone. Had a difficult time on one cruise with outspoken people supporting George Bush. Always go for a table for two. :cool:

[RevNeal]

The Cruise Critic board should stop this insidious attempt to intimidate potential Holland America customers by a seemingly innocuous survey. Just what type of religious worship are the instigatiors of this poll trying to keep off Holland America?

What are you talking about? I had no "insidious" intentions in posting this thread, nor would I ever desire to intimidate ANY potential Holland America customers. As for your insinuation that I am trying to keep a certain kind of religious worship off Holland America ... I'm simply at a loss for words as to how to respond. Suffice it to say that I'm sorry you have decided to make your very first post on CC such an accusatory one.

[hexius]

Hey Neal, you forgot a option, "None, i do not pratice and/or believe"

[RevNeal]

Hey Neal, you forgot a option, "None, i do not pratice and/or believe"

Strange ... 140 others didn't seem to have any trouble finding it.

[rag top man]

I am new to this board and this kind of forum in general and I want to tell you regulars that I appreciate your style and your sense of community very much.

In response to the poll, I pray most everywhere on board in the sense that I talk with my dear heavenly father a lot when I am celebrating a fine day of living and I really enjoy the kind of fine days that I have had on cruise ships in my life.

I study scripture and read spiritual books while one board as I really cherish the extra time that being on the boat affords me as opposed to the crush of things daily life can throw at me that distract me from my study and devotional time.

I have never attended a worship service on board in a formal meeting with a group of people in a room although I might enjoy that community time and a formal serving of the sacraments. I am glad that HAL provides these opportunities to faith communities. I hope that they continue and that they try to accomodate people of all faiths..I know that must be a wild challenge in today's diverse culture.

I must admit that I have a pretty wild personal worship service every morning around sunrise and most nights, whether starry or stormy, on the highest deck as far forward on whatever ship I am sailing on. As a sailor it is an old habit. I have found few other sanctuaries that match the glorious setting and display of God's handiwork in real time action. I find study and payer and journalling and just gawking to be very, very rich in that environment.

I try to be private and inobtrusive in the proactive, telling everyone else how great this is "come over here and hold hands and pray with me stranger kind of way", but I do not hide who I am as a praying, singing and studying child of God...I try to only sing audibly when it is really stormy or windy and I think I am alone and I just can't contain it!

On reflection, maybe that outdoor service with just me and one or another members of my family (they never get up for the morning ones..their loss) will remain my preferred "service" while on board even though we do attend worship services on land weekly with a fan club that we really love and appreciate.

Thanks for the thoughts you have shared here..I hope that I have not gone on too much...but the whole thread became part of my early devotion at home this morning on my side porch. Really looking forward to getting back out there on the water in a few days!

[kryos]

In response to the poll, I pray most everywhere on board in the sense that I talk with my dear heavenly father a lot when I am celebrating a fine day of living and I really enjoy the kind of fine days that I have had on cruise ships in my life.

And if we are ever lucky enough to sail together, I hope you will allow me to join you in those prayers ... and that scripture study.

To me, just to be able to cruise ... to see a beautiful sunset from the comfort of a first-class cruise ship ... to visit so many beautiful ports and see the wonders God has placed there for my viewing pleasure ... to have the opportunity to slip below the sea on a SCUBA excursion and see a whole 'nother world down there, filled with an explosion of color and so many wonders of God's creation ... what is not to pray about and to give thanks for while on a cruise?

Of course, like you, I do my praying quietly out of respect for my fellow passengers. I realize that everyone has their own beliefs and I respect that. But, man ... it would sure be nice to find someone on a cruise with whom to share the wonders that have been laid at our feet by a benevolent God.

Blue skies and thanks for the post ...

--rita

[kryos]

The response to my statement demonstrates why the topic of religion does not belong on this board. Some took offense. In almost every statement I've read here, the writer brings up potential hot spots to which others may object or feel too intimidated to reply. It's simply not the right cruise topic.

Oh, please! If a topic offends you ... simply don't click on the subject line. Simple, really. Just like with the offerings on TV or radio. If a program is not to my liking (and believe me ... today most of them aren't) ... or it offends me in some way ... I have a handy little device available. It's called the "clicker." Works every time!

Maybe the subject here offends you ... but obviously it doesn't offend everyone. So, please ... feel free to move on. But let others engage in the discourse if they find it stimulating, okay?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RevNeal]

The response to my statement demonstrates why the topic of religion does not belong on this board. Some took offense.

How does my response to your very first post -- which has been the only one you received to that post -- demonstrate that the topic does not belong on this board? I would really like to know.

For the record, I took NO offense at your religion, or lack thereof, or even your opinion about religion or those who practice it. Rather, what troubled me was that you have insinuated that I had some kind of nefarious intention in posting the thread. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was simply curious to find out what percentage of those who frequent this board participate in the on-ship religious services ... or other religious practices while cruising. This board is about cruising -- and, specifically, cruising on the Holland America Line. HAL offers, for those who are interested, religious services on their ships. Additionally, sometimes religious issues or practices come up while one is cruising. All of this make the poll, and the subject, meet for this board. It is a field of study and a topic which is of interest to me. Given my vocation, my curiosity should not be surprising, and given the voluntary nature of this board, I hope it would not be threatening. In the very least, I would trust that others would refrain from interpreting my intentions in the most negative possible light.

In almost every statement I've read here, the writer brings up potential hot spots to which others may object or feel too intimidated to reply. It's simply not the right cruise topic.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. With only a few exceptions, most people dealt with the issue with grace and decorum. Most people have demonstrated that they are social adults, capable of accepting differences among their fellow cruisers and not judging others, or maligning them, for believing or behaving differently.

I serve as a periodic volunteer protestant chaplain for HAL. I find the kind of responses to this poll both personally and professionally interesting. If you are made uncomfortable by the thread, the poll, or the topic, then you are perfectly welcome -- and, indeed, encouraged -- to read and post on other threads. You may not be aware of it, but this board is a great place, with lots of interesting people who have a great depth of knowledge about cruising in general and the Holland America Line in particular. Branch out ... post on other threads ... have fun!

May all your cruises be a blessing to you and yours!

[I Luv Crusin]

My wife and I love our Father God, and our Lord and Savior Jesus... Although we don't attend services on the ship, we do hold hands and pray out loud before every meal. There's been times when we've been fortunate to be seated at a table with other believers of different denominations, where we all held hands while someone led in a prayer. Sometimes, it's just the two of us who hold hands and pray. Once a couple told me that I offended them. I replied that I would rather offend them then to offend God. They never sat with us again, but that's okay too. They were replaced with a Jewish couple, who always stopped whatever they were doing while we prayed. They were great and we both shared many friendly discussions about our faith and beliefs.. To those of you who don't pray, that's your business and your decision. We do and will continue too, and that's our decision... Bombero

We say dinner prayers outloud, even on cruises. But I have to say that we have been seated just with our immediate family. If we where seated at a table with strangers my dh and I usually hold hands and pray silently.

[geocruiser]

I attend daily mass both on land and sea. The only time that I don't go is if I am sick. We took a cruise on the Sun Princess 12/12/04 and there were no mass. But I did get to visit three churches on three different islands. One was on Sunday, I got there for the end of the mass. It was great, lots of music, One of the reasons that our next cruise is back on HAL (Zaandam 3/5/05)) is because of the daily mass that is offered.
I also pray quietly before meals (on board & out loud while we are home) and my husband and I pray before we go to bed each night

God Bless you all,

Geo

[RevNeal]

Being invited to post elsewhere if I don't approve of the religion poll on the HAL board, reminds me of the bumper signs..."If you are against abortions, don't have one." That's not the way to handle diversity of opinion.

Gosh, Mij, I'm sorry you've taken the response you've received so negatively. It was not my intention to make you feel unwelcome ... quite the contrary, I was just trying to let you know that there are other threads on the Holland America section of the Cruise Critic board that deal with many wonderful, interesting, and helpful topics. As my posting history demonstates, I'm very interested in diversity of opinion ... including yours. You've shared your opinion, I've shared mine, and now it's time to move on to other topics ... who knows, perhaps we will find common ground on other topics? :) You joined Cruise Critics on January 3, 2005, but all three of your posts have on THIS thread, only. Perhaps I was mistaken, but I was thinking that you didn't realize that there were other threads to draw your attention and edify your cruising preparation and enjoyment.

When you justify the reasons for a poll about religion on cruising...and I did read some good reasons...maybe I can see your point of view, but when told (in politically correct language) to put up or shut up, as one person wrote, I feel even more annoyed with the entire thread.

Pardon me for asking, but do you enjoy banging your head against brick walls? Or ... is this a new experience for you? If you are annoyed by a thread, why further your annoyance by returning to it and posting on it? I was perfectly happy to let the thread rest in peace. Someone else brought it to the top; I only posted on it, again, when you attacked me.

By the way, which rules of decorum did I violate?....and who is the arbitor of decorum on this board?

I could easily turn your question around on you: who made you the arbiter of the suitability of topics for this board?

As regards decorum -- as far as I can tell, you didn't violate any of the formal guidelines of the forum. However, your very first post was an objection to a thread topic ... an objection which cast aspersions upon the intentions of the original poster as well as on some who had posted on the thread. While I am certainly not the arbiter of decorum on this board, I was the principle target of your aspersions. In the very least, you might want to recognize that your use of words (like: "insidious" "intimidate" "seemingly innocuous survey") was at least somewhat inflammatory. Objecting to a thread is fine, but to insinuate, in your very first post on Cruise Critics, that the original poster had some kind of "insidious" intention in posting the poll and thread is, in my opinion, a bit "over the top."

I hope we find something else on this board to chat about. I truly do. Cruising is too much fun for us to exchange sharp, uncomfortable words. May all your cruises be blessed!

[AmyinVail]

did you not read all posts? the "club" was being referred to us "radical" God worshipers! LOL You know, those of us who won't shelf our deep belief and thanks in God for each and every blessing just because there is a non-practicing person sitting beside us on a cruise ship! I am a member of that Club. A christian who prays and I couldn't give one flying saucer who sits beside me and is offended. Don't care. If you are Muslim, Buddha, Jewish, Mormon - whatever your belief, I applaud that you believe in something and I would sit quietly by why you finished. Those that would "tip the matre'd" to be seated elsewhere? Well, I am saddened that you would miss the chance to see and appreciate a thankful Christian. Oh, and to make matters worse - I would also voice approval for George W. Bush. : )

[bookworm0911]

Do you really believe people who do not think it is appropriate to practice their religion in a social situation with strangers cannot also be 'thankful Christians'? Hate to tell you, but they are polite thankful Christians, just as devout as you say you are. And horror of horrors, many of us are Christians and voted for Kerry! :eek:

[Host Walt]

My turn.

The poll is a good one and covers material that has been discussed frequently on Cruise Critic. The discussion so far, generally, has been good.

The topic is unambiguously worded and is hard to be misunderstood. If you prefer not to participate in the discussion, then there's no obligation to do so. I suggest that you just pass by.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Mijuraad]

I'm not new to this board or to Cruise Critic. I have a new computer, new cable and a new name, but I have been posting and contributing for over six years. I was interested in the thread because it had appeared on this board earlier. When it did, many people became angry and the thread was discontinued.

Last summer I was onboard the Star Princess for a transatlantic cruise that became a pre election forum. Many of us resorted to conversing about our health and the weather to avoid arguments.

Like politics, religion is a hot button item that most people in polite society don't discuss with relative strangers. By making it part of this Holland America board, you, in effect, create a hesitance toward sailing with HAL among people who don't want to be part of another's religious experience.

As was just said, there are other discussions and other boards, and I'm pleased to know there are other cruise lines.

[hexius]

"Do not engage in any religous expressions (at least while on a cruise)"

Hey Neal, you forgot a option, "None, i do not pratice and/or believe"

Strange ... 140 others didn't seem to have any trouble finding it.

yeah, but you tried to swindle in to that answer "(at least while on a cruise)" in there insinuating that we do still ...pray. Tricky, but not buying it, i just wanted to answer truithfully that i do not pray nor follow.

[smidge]

I voted on this thread a few days ago. I've been reading the posts and find the discussion very interesting. I'm a practicing catholic. I tell my kids faith is about making decisions about the choices you make every day, hour, minute, second. I believe that but somehow this praying or not praying at the dinner table is not something I place a lot of stress on. Why can't people just pray silently. Whether you pray to Allah, God, Jehovah or whatever it's a prayer of thanksgiving for the blessing of the meal and company that is btwn the person and God. Why is it important that others join in. I'm sure I've said my dinner prayer and others have not even been aware of it. They've been too busy chatting with others but God heard it.

On another note we recently travelled on Carnival at xmas. My husband sent an email asking if there would be a priest or some sort of interfaith religious celebration on the ship for xmas as we would be at sea. The response said Carnival always has cleregy present to conduct services on important religious holidays, however not Christmas. Only Easter holds a greater significance than Christmas in the christian faith so it seemed a kind of bizarre response. It made no diff to us. We had our own celebration in our cabin with our 4 adult children, one boyfriend and grandma. We even had pics to look at and gifts to open afterwards and all had a part in the service! It was a great celebration!!:D

[glrounds]

double post, sorry

[smidge]

As my young adult daughters say "whatever" :p

[RevNeal]

yeah, but you tried to swindle in to that answer "(at least while on a cruise)" in there insinuating that we do still ...pray. Tricky, but not buying it, i just wanted to answer truithfully that i do not pray nor follow.

Being interested in languages, the use of words, and issues of interpretation, I am always amazed at the utter nonsense that some people will pull from, or read into, a passage, a text, or a statement. That is the case in the above quote.

I particularly found the use of the term "swindle" to be both absurd in the extreme, as well as most unkind and unwarranted. Suffice it to say, there was NO intention to "swindle" or "trick" anyone into implying that they, nevertheless, DO still engage in religious expressions ... and a fear that such an intention existed tells me FAR more about the person making the charge then, perhaps, they will ever comprehend.

To be blunt, I don't give a flip if someone doesn't ever engage in religious expressions. The topic of this thread is, specifically, the use of the Line's offered religious services and individual religious expressions WHILE ON A CRUISE. If you don't, EVER, engage in such expressions ... bully for you! But what does that have to do with the TOPIC??? NOTHING, other than you don't do on ship what you don't do on land. FINE. I DON'T CARE about the land-end ... I only wanted to know about what happens on ship. If you don't like that, I'm very sorry ... go cry into your beer, but get off my back. If hexius, or anyone else, is somehow afraid of implying that they engage in religious expressions while not a cruise, they can set that fear aside right now ... I REALLY DON'T CARE. Their precise answer is NO WHERE revealed to anyone else on this board, and had they not whined about it, NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE WISER as to the scope of their answer.

Sorry to be so blunt, people.