Uh Oh! Birth Certif. Problem ... can anyone help?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Some of you may have read my posts about our friend who doesn't have a passport. HAL told me not a problem because in the Caribbean the birth certificate is sufficient. Well, it turns out he was born in his home with a midwife 60+ years ago!!! So we don't know if there's a birth certificate!

He has his Driver's License and Social Security card so I don't know how he got those without a birth certificate.

We're cruising in 2 months!! :eek: Awk! What to do. Does anyone have any experience with a situation like this?

[bookworm0911]

First thing is to check with the Bureau of Vital Statistics in the state where he was born. They will know if there is a birth certificate. He may have no problem.

What does he say about how he got his SS #? He must have had some proof of birth at that time. If it was not a bc, then what was it?

[98Charlie]

If the birth was not properly recorded at the time, he may have to jump a number of hoops to get a birth certificate. Certainly check with his state of birth first. There are also online services that will obtain recorded birth certificates for a fee.

However, he may need to have the state create a birth certificate. Depending on the state he may need: A sworn affidavit from someone (possibly two people) who knew of his birth. Meaning they must be older than him and from the same area. Possibly may have to be a relative.
Baptismal Record from the church.
Original school records.
Original medical records.
Original Discharge papers from the military (DD 214).


Good Luck

[Nasmas]

First thing is to check with the Bureau of Vital Statistics in the state where he was born. They will know if there is a birth certificate. He may have no problem.

What does he say about how he got his SS #? He must have had some proof of birth at that time. If it was not a bc, then what was it?
Not necessarily. I got my SS# several years ago and I didn't have to have a birth certificate. All we did was fill out a form, my parents signed it and we mailed it. Things have changed a lot, but the bc was not all important at that time. My dad never had a bc until he was trying to get a passport to go to London. He found out his had never been filed. Anyway, he had to go to the state office (this was in Miss.) and he took his mother with him. She had to sign an affidavit attesting where, when and whatever. They issued a document that took the place of his bc and that's what he used to get his passport. I'm sure all states have something like this. I think they said there had to be some that could attest to your birth. So, if your friend has a parent still living that should do it, if not, I dont' know what they'd do.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I really appreciate your responses on this. Still a big problem because both his parents are now gone.

Has anyone travelled to the Caribbean without their Birth Certificate? We will, of course, call HAL for information but you all have so much experience in all this that I knew this was a good place to start.

Sometimes you guys know more than HAL!!!

[sail7seas]

There is no question about it but he will be denied boarding the ship without a birth certificate together with a government issued photo ID or a Passport. There is no messing around about it. No proper ID; no boarding.

He needs to start scrambling to get his papers in order or, unfortunately, he will not be cruising. It is not HAL's rule; it is Homeland Security (Customs and Immigration). IF HAL were to allow a passenger to board without proper documentation, they have to answer for it when the time came for all pax to report to Immigration with their documents, and this gentleman did not have any. Immigration would certainly wish to know how he was allowed to board the ship.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I know, Sail, and thank you. I've forwarded your post to my friend. I'm so upset about this. My girlfriend and I have been so excited about finally getting to cruise together and her SO just now tells us this. I could kill him. I simply can't believe it.

[Mary Ellen]

IF his birth wasn't registered (the midwife/parents may well have done this - uniform birth registration began about 1907, well practiced by the 1920s), a delayed registration can still be filed with his birth state. If he isn't yet collecting SS, he may have to anyway to get benefits (I just read a case about this in a genealogy newsletter).

Since the parents are deceased, does he have living aunts/uncles, older siblings/cousins that could attest to his birth? Church records can also help document a birth in order to get that certificate.

Check out VitalRec.com (http://vitalrec.com/index.html) to find out about getting certificates from each state.

Census records can also be used to prove birth (to get a delayed birth certif. - not for immigration), but there is a 72 yr privacy shield - so his first census won't be public info yet (1930 is the most recent census that is public information). Since HE has a NEED to get information about himself, it can be done, but I wouldn't count on the wheels of goverment to move quickly enough for your cruise.

Good luck and I'd act VERY quickly -

[montgomeryfamily]

98Charlie and MaryEllen gave you some good advice. I would suggest that you follow it.

HAL will not be able to help you with this problem. They will expect the passenger to find out from the state where he was born what is required to get a birth certificate.


Kathy

[Krazy Kruizers]

There will be a Canary Yellow piece of paper in your documents that begins "STOP" - "Guests arriving for embarkation without proper identification may not join the voyage and will not be entitled to a refund".

It also states that "Due to increased security measures enacted by United States Federal Agencies for the safety of our guests, the following identification is required for U.S. citizens."

"Valid Passport

OR

For persons born in the United States, an official picture identification issued by a U.S. Local, State, or Federal government agency AND an original or certified birth certificate."

[sail7seas]

Heather.....I hope it works out for him (and you). Please keep us posted. Let us know how he resolves the problem.

Good Luck.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Mary Ellen, good information. Thanks so much. I just hope we have time.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Lost in my own stupidity, this guy was in the U.S. Coast Guard. Don't you have to be a citizen to do that? Anyone know?

Answered my own question: yes you do. Either that or a resident alien (which he isn't).

Sorry for the post but I can't erase it!!!

[ekerr19]

Heather-

My Dad was born at home in New York, back in 1928. He was able to get a birth certificate from the state in order to get his passport back in the early 1970's.

I remember it being an involved process as he was also raised in an orphanage that no longer existed... he did have to travel to NY and have relatives sign affidavits - he also had his military records. I took about 6-8 weeks, if I recall, but this was back in the 70's so I don't know if the wheels would spin faster or slower today.

A friend's husband was adopted by a US family, but born in Italy - also no record of birth, adoption records incomplete. It took them nine months to get proper documentation for his passport for their cruise.

Good Luck! Keep us posted. :)

[sail7seas]

No, I don't think you have to be a citizen to serve in the United States Armed Forces.

It seems to me I have recently seen on tv Citizenship Ceremonies where soldiers/servicemen and women were sworn in as Citizens. They have been serving in the Military but were not yet citizens.

[HeatherInFlorida]

No, I don't think you have to be a citizen to serve in the United States Armed Forces.

It seems to me I have recently seen on tv Citizenship Ceremonies where soldiers/servicemen and women were sworn in as Citizens. They have been serving in the Military but were not yet citizens.Sail, after posting that I looked it up and you do have to be a citizen or a resident alien. So that means you have to show proof of one or the other I should expect. It gets foggier and foggier, but I really appreciate all this input because I'm getting lots of good websites.

EKerr, thanks for that -- gives me some hope!!!

[ekerr19]

Well, I do know my Dad served in the military - lied about his age and joined the Navy. He did not have a birth certificate and according to him many young men were in similar circumstances. He does have his discharge papers, but for a long time there was no certified record of his birth.

[jhannah]

Sail, after posting that I looked it up and you do have to be a citizen or a resident alien. So that means you have to show proof of one or the other I should expect.But a resident alien card won't do for a passport, which is proof of citizenship. The U.S. won't issue a passport on the basis of resident alien status.

[HeatherInFlorida]

But a resident alien card won't do for a passport, which is proof of citizenship. The U.S. won't issue a passport on the basis of resident alien status.Just want to clear up this misunderstanding. I meant that when my friend went into the Coast Guard he had to show proof of citizenship or proof of resident alien status. At least I should think so.

My concern here is not to get him a passport; it's to get him a birth certificate which we're not sure was ever filed because he was born at home with a midwife.

[fb0075]

NOT A PROBLEM!!!!
Just did this for a freind of mine---call Health dept and it is called a "Certificate of live birth"---also,if you are at a major airport--you can go to Customs desk with all info and for apx $100,they will certify you!
FRANK

[HeatherInFlorida]

NOT A PROBLEM!!!!
Just did this for a freind of mine---call Health dept and it is called a "Certificate of live birth"---also,if you are at a major airport--you can go to Customs desk with all info and for apx $100,they will certify you!
FRANK
Frank, I'm confused. Go to the Customs desk with what info? He doesn't have a birth certificate, only a Baptismal certificate.

I've now found out that he has visited a timeshare in the Bahamas. Don't you need a birth certificate in the Bahamas?

[Krazy Kruizers]

You do need a birth certificate to get back into the States from the Bahamas.

You have me curious now - when did he go to the Bahamas?

He must know what he showed at customs to come back into the States.

[doone]

You DO need a birth certificate or passport for the Bahama's. A co-worker of mine didn't realize he needed a birth certificate and was on his way to the Bahama's, guess what, he didn't go, was denied boarding at the airport. This was just a few weeks ago. He now travels with a passport, an expensive lesson.

[flatwallet]

Haven't seen any mention of a family Bible. Oftentimes birth certificates can be issued using a family Bible if a birth was recorded in it.
Here, in Georgia, duplicate or certified copies of birth certificates are issued by the Probate Judge's office in the county in which you were born.
My daughter was born in Texas while I was in service and she recently had to send off to get a certified copy of her bc and it was from the county seat of the county in which she was born.

[HeatherInFlorida]

You do need a birth certificate to get back into the States from the Bahamas.

You have me curious now - when did he go to the Bahamas?

He must know what he showed at customs to come back into the States.

Me too, KK! My girlfriend is getting more info from him. He's got us all worried and crazy and he's off bowling somewhere:D . I'm not sure when he went. I'm wondering if he doesn't have the necessary documentation lurking somewhere and, if so, I may kill him!

You are all being so wonderful with your info and great ideas. Thank you so much! I will definitely let you know the outcome.

[Cruiseoften]

HeatherInFlorida
The Baptismal certificate would be helpful - at least it proves he was born!

What about any insurance policies?

I think this gentleman has to get his act together and quickly - everybody concerned should be 'rattling his chains' :D

[bookworm0911]

Looks to me like this guy either knows he has a bc/official ID and enjoys having you gals running around OR he just doesn't want to go on the cruise so is remaining silent about it.

At 60+ years I would just give him the fact that if he gets to the ship with no passport or bc he will not be allowed on the cruise and will not get a refund. Let him take it from there. He's not a child. :eek:

[98Charlie]

HeatherinFlorida

If the gentleman was in the military during era's of WWII or Korea, chances are he may have registered his discharge papers at the county of his return from he military. County recorder office there might have some helpful info.

When time is an issue like yours, I wouldn't hesitate to call the local state or national congressman from his area and say, ``Here's the situation. What to do next?'' These people are elected officials and receive their pay by us, the U.S., to serve their electorate. Be persistent, have some info in hand and try what my grandson does when he really, really, needs something. Say, ``PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.'' Works for my grandson most of the time and has worked for this grandma often - I'm a newsrepoter by trade. Have had to squeak info from elected officials many times during my career.

Good luck and give it a try. Dianne, Charlies' wife.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thank you, Diane. He wasn't in WWII or Korea, I'm afraid. He's going to start with the Bureau of Vital Records in PA where he was born. Don't worry, we're rattling him like crazy!!!:D He has promised my friend that he will not let us down and he will be on that ship ... so we'll just see.

I'm a bit of a control freak and always like to get everyone's ducks in a row. Bookworm, you crack me up! We did tell him this. I think your theory is hysterical, though.

Thanks all!

[Lovebirds]

Shouldn't the FIRST call be to the bureau of vital statistics in the state and county where he was born? They should be able to tell you if there is or isn't a B/C on file. Even though it was a home birth with a midwife, most states had requirements that all live births be registered about the same time that social security came into being in the 30's. It's a very strong probability that it was registered and if it is, getting a copy is easy.

If you make that call, make sure you have his parents names and DOB. Those are the most common questions they ask to verify that you have a legitimate interest in knowing.

[Lovebirds]

Nevermind! you posted your response while I was typing mine.

[iluvcruzin]

Mary Ellen and Lovebirds posts have great suggestions. If he was born in the country there may be records at the county level. 60 years ago isn't that long and he should be able to find it. If you are talking age 80+ then it may be a little tougher. Church records are a good clue too. Even if the Church no longer exists, the county will know where the records were sent. My hobby is geneology and I've had to track down a few home birth records. My Dad was born at home. Fortunately his was recorded with the County Bureau.

Good Luck

[98Charlie]

Believe OP has enough info to find several ways to obtain a birth certificate other than the one we all hope is stuffed somewhere in dresser drawer, waiting in a bank's lock box or available through state and county records.

Hope everyone viewing this thread who does not have a copy of their birth certificate and has plans to travel outside the states takes these suggestions to heart and starts finding what they need before they get down to the last few weeks before needed.

Charlie and I applied for our passports several years ago when we flew to Europe for the first time following his military service. Purchased our two daughters passports as well a few years later and now our son is active military in Iraq and can use his military ID as U.S. citizenship.

Lived behind the Iron Curtain when my husband was military. Personally, will never travel outside this country ever without a passport in hand, along with copies of our certified birth certificates in hand or in my baggage.

Never know when you're going to need them but if you don't have them, you're going to wish you had them.

That's my motto, and I'm sticking by it. Charlie's wife

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thanks much, one and all. You are all fantastic and I've gotten great ideas from you. My friend is grateful, too.

Diane, you make a good point. This experience is one that may alert anyone out there who hasn't made sure they have all their necessary documents better get crackin':D .

It's always been such a vital thing for me that it never occurred to me it wouldn't be to anyone.

So we'll see what develops as he begins his search.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Your friend will have to contact the Bureau of Vital Satistics in New Castle, PA.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Your friend will have to contact the Bureau of Vital Satistics in New Castle, PA.

Yup, he's already on it ... found the website and he's going to call. Thanks, KK:)

[Finflapper]

My father-in-law doesn't have a birth certificate either. As far as I know, the only way is to get a passport, so don't waste any time in getting one.