When did "Cruise Ships" come into being?

[flatwallet]

DW and I were talking yesterday about our first cruise in '85 or some such and started wondering when cruise ships as such came into being. I am not referring to what is commonly called ocean liners, etc. even though cruise ships nowadays do have transoceanic cruises. Any thoughts on this?

[jhannah]

Noah? Oops! That's a religious reference. Can't go there!!! :D

I would guess that it started back when The Love Boat came on the air. That was about the time more casual cruising was introduced, and that program, showing carefree shipboard life and visits to exotic ports of call, helped lead to what is now the industry we know and love. I'm no historian. That's just my take.

[ekerr19]

Host Walt, or Host Doug... are either of you out there? They always seem to know the answers to this type of question. :)

[Claire O'Brien]

Whilst in Skagway this year I visited an old saloon in the main street owned by the National Park Service and attended a Ranger presentation which included old photos of cruise ships sending passengers ashore in Alaska using tenders which were then just small open rowing boats.
These photos were taken in the 1890's and were reputed to be the beginning of cruising in Alaska if not the world.
The Ranger told us the cost was about $3,000 per passenger in todays money which is more than most of us pay for a passage nowadays.

[grannynurse]

I think NCL lauched its first ship "Southward" I think, in about 1969, but I remember reading about the Old Rotterdam V being launched around 1959, off course the Rotterdam II was 1890 something, but it wasn't a cruise ship as such. The Cunard Countess and QE2 were in the 50's and 60's but still doing the transatlantic runs.

The caribbean cruises, I venture to guess, began in the 60's and early 70's.
That's the limit to my knowledge.
GN

[imsulin]

Cruising for pleasure took off in the late 1800's with Cunard and White Star. Remember the Carpathia? This was a Cunard ship that rescued the 705 surviving passengers of the White Star Titanic sinking on April 15, 1912. The ship was on its way from New York to the Mediterranean for a "cruise".

[LizB1]

I know that HAL did World Cruises in the early 50's on the Rotterdam V, but I don't think that cruises in general came into being until the early 70's when the Transatlantic runs were given up by most lines.

[Lisa63]

Many historians consider Cunard's Caronia (1949) to be the first ship specifically built for cruising. She was also known as the Green Goddess as she was painted in a few shades of green. This is not the Caronia that sails today.

Prior to that, liners would make the occasional cruise. SS Normandie, for instance, made a cruise to Rio in 1939, I believe. There are other examples as well, some of which were mentioned above. But these were all liners -- Caronia is regarded by many as the first purpose-built cruise ship.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Well this is a complicated question here. Before I get to answering it I'll start by replying to a few of the replies:

I think NCL lauched its first ship "Southward" I think, in about 1969The first NCL ship was SUNWARD, built in 1966.

The first pure cruise ship NCL built was SKYWARD of 1969; SUNWARD and STARWARD (1968) had car decks and were really cruise ferries.

I remember reading about the Old Rotterdam V being launched around 1959She was built for Atlantic line voyages as well as cruising, so doesn't count here.

The Cunard Countess and QE2 were in the 50's and 60's but still doing the transatlantic runs.CUNARD COUNTESS was built in 1976 and was strictly a cruise ship. QE2 was built in 1969 and, like ROTTERDAM V and most ocean liners built after WWII, designed mainly as a liner but also to do cruises. (Personally I consider ROTTERDAM V to be the only true liner-cruise ship hybrid every built; nobody else ever found that magic formula that made her equally fantastic as both... All other liner-cruise ship combinations seemed skewed towards one use or the other.)

The caribbean cruises, I venture to guess, began in the 60's and early 70's.Well, yes and no. The modern Caribbean cruise industry came into being in the late 1960s when NCL was formed but there had been cruising going on in the Caribbean, and even from Miami, before that. In fact if you go back to the early 1960s or before, the big three Miami based cruise lines - Carnival, NCL, and Royal Caribbean - all have fascinating common roots in smaller companies that sprang up just after WWII. This is far too long a story to tell here; personally I believe a book on the topic is sorely needed.

Many historians consider Cunard's Caronia (1949) to be the first ship specifically built for cruising.Ah... No, sorry, I can't agree with that.

CARONIA was in fact not built specifically for cruising - she was another one of those peculiar liner-cruise ship hybrids so common in the 1950s and 1960s. (Never mind that she was built in 1948 and reportedly designed in the '30s; Cunard were early adopters of this.) Now, as I said, most such designs were clearly biased towards either line voyages or cruises, and CARONIA's was heavily weighted towards cruising, but still she was not a pure cruise ship. While her primary purpose was cruising, she was also designed so that she could be used as a two-class Atlantic liner. Specifically, she was designed to relieve the QUEENs during their annual periods in drydock, though some do contend that her design was originally meant to be as a North Atlantic running-mate to MAURETANIA (II).

Now, you ask, what was the first purpose-built cruise ship? Honestly I'm not positive; but the oldest one that I can think of off the top of my head was Bergen Line's STELLA POLARIS of 1927. Through the beginning of World War II, she served as a "yacht" for some of the wealthiest people in the world. After use as an accomodation ship for senior **** officers, she was returned to Norway and then sold to the Swedish Clipper Line, who used her until 1969. Now for the really amazing part - renamed SCANDINAVIA, she became a floating hotel at Izu, Japan, where this magnificent vessel remains to this day. For more about this fascinating vessel, see here (http://www.greatoceanliners.net/stellapolaris.html) from The Great Ocean Liners (http://www.greatoceanliners.net).

But the history of cruising goes further back than that. Two companies claim to have "invented" cruising: Hapag-Lloyd and P&O.

Hapag-Lloyd claim that cruising was invented in 1891 the brilliant Albert Ballin of the Hamburg-Amerika Line (the "Hapag" half of Hapag-Lloyd) For more from their official site, see here (http://www.hapag-lloyd.com/pages/history_hlag.html).

P&O actually claim to have "invented" cruising earlier - as early as 1835, as you can see here (http://portal.pohub.com/portal/page?_pageid=71,44978&_dad=pogprtl&_schema=POGPRTL&p_calledfrom=1) from their web site (note that that's the web site of the P&O Steam Navigation Company, not the now-independent P&O Cruises, which was spun off from the parent company in 2000 and merged with Carnival Corporation last year).

So cruising goes back much further than one might think, even if it didn't arrive in its most current form until the late 1960s with NCL.

[RevNeal]

Thanks, Doug, for an excellent outline of the history of cruising. It's a difficult subject because of conflicting claims by various lines and claims made for various ships. :)

[dougnewmanatsea]

Thanks, Doug, for an excellent outline of the history of cruising.You're quite welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Just waiting for you to make a humorous comment on this ;) .

That was a very basic overview; I'm sure some of my maritime historian friends could elaborate much, much further and probably find an error or two as well.

Actually I'm almost certain that STELLA POLARIS was not the first purpose-built cruise ship but she's the best candidate I can come up with at the moment. I seem to recall that Hapag actually built a pure cruise ship around the last turn of the century but I can't put my finger on it. Will have to do some digging around tomorrow to see what I can find. At any rate if she was not the first she is definitely a very early example.

It's a difficult subject because of conflicting claims by various lines and claims made for various ships.Indeed it's quite complicated. I've had quite a few long "discussions" about just what constitutes a cruise ship, an ocean liner, what ships were cruise ships or liners, and so on. Amongst ship geeks like myself this can become quite heated!

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks Host Doug for setting us straight.

Great report.

[flatwallet]

My thanks as well to Host Doug for the commentary on the origin of cruise ships.
Now, I suppose my next question would be "Who coined the phrase "ship geeks?" ". :)

[woodofpine]

P & O claims to have, in the late 1800's, scheduled, sold, and marketed the first round trip fares to the Med from England promoted to Edwardian Britons primarily for port to port touristic purposes - rather than one way destination transport.

[Lisa63]

Originally Posted by Lisa63
Many historians consider Cunard's Caronia (1949) to be the first ship specifically built for cruising.

Ah... No, sorry, I can't agree with that.

CARONIA was in fact not built specifically for cruising - she was another one of those peculiar liner-cruise ship hybrids so common in the 1950s and 1960s.

Doug, I was simply reporting on what many maritime historians cite as the first ship designed for cruises. Among these esteemed gentlemen is John Maxtone-Graham (who I have met personally), who states in his book Liners to the Sun that "her infrequent transatlantic trips were more in the nature of positioning crossings than scheduled shuttle service; as a result, she is almost never recalled in a two-class configuration."

But more important is that we are all entitled to express our own interpretations of the issue of the first cruise ship... which is murky, to say the least. But in doing so, please do not dismiss those with whom you disagree. I just pointed out an observation by others that I thought would be of interest to those reading this thread.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Doug, I was simply reporting on what many maritime historians cite as the first ship designed for cruises.With all due respect to whatever maritime historians you might be referring to, she was not designed specifically for cruises (Partly, or even mostly? Without a doubt!) and even if she had been she would not have been the first. Certainly no respectable maritime historian can have not heard of STELLA POLARIS which to the best of my knowledge was never intended for anything but cruises, and as I said there were probably some before her too. (I'm just an amateur/aspiring maritime historian so I'm not obligated to know ;) .)

Among these esteemed gentlemen is John Maxtone-Graham (who I have met personally), who states in his book Liners to the Sun that "her infrequent transatlantic trips were more in the nature of positioning crossings than scheduled shuttle service; as a result, she is almost never recalled in a two-class configuration."Perhaps, but at least in that quote he does not say that she was designed exclusively as a cruise ship, nor that she was the first. If he had, he'd have been incorrect, which is unlikely but of course not impossible.

But more important is that we are all entitled to express our own interpretations of the issue of the first cruise ship... which is murky, to say the least. But in doing so, please do not dismiss those with whom you disagree.With all due respect, I find nothing wrong with dismissing information that is incorrect, regardless of how esteemed the source may be. At any rate I never would suggest that we are not all entitled to our own interpretations; I was merely disagreeing with yours (or that of whomever you got it from).

I do apologise if my post came off the wrong way.

[DFD1]

Doug: Where do the old Bahama Star and the Emerald Sea, ships that I cruised on out of Miami in the early to mid 1960's, fit into all of this. Were they cruise ships, or some hybrid configuration? Did they pre-date the Stella Polaris? Thanks for your interesting posts on this fascinating subject. DFD

[Stevesan]

With all due respect to whatever maritime historians you might be referring to, she was not designed specifically for cruises (Partly, or even mostly? Without a doubt!) and even if she had been she would not have been the first. Certainly no respectable maritime historian can have not heard of STELLA POLARIS which to the best of my knowledge was never intended for anything but cruises, and as I said there were probably some before her too. (I'm just an amateur/aspiring maritime historian so I'm not obligated to know ;) .)

Perhaps, but at least in that quote he does not say that she was designed exclusively as a cruise ship, nor that she was the first. If he had, he'd have been incorrect, which is unlikely but of course not impossible.

With all due respect, I find nothing wrong with dismissing information that is incorrect, regardless of how esteemed the source may be. At any rate I never would suggest that we are not all entitled to our own interpretations; I was merely disagreeing with yours (or that of whomever you got it from).

I do apologise if my post came off the wrong way.
Uh Oh! It's beginning to sound a bit like the old "Travelpage" days.:)

[Lisa63]

Uh Oh! It's beginning to sound a bit like the old "Travelpage" days.:)
Which is precisely why I no longer visit or post there, Stevesan. :)

[dougnewmanatsea]

Doug: Where do the old Bahama Star and the Emerald Sea, ships that I cruised on out of Miami in the early to mid 1960's, fit into all of this. Were they cruise ships, or some hybrid configuration? Did they pre-date the Stella Polaris?To start out... No, they didn't predate STELLA POLARIS. The rest is too long to explain now as how they fit in was in fact very complicated. More tomorrow.

Uh Oh! It's beginning to sound a bit like the old "Travelpage" days.:)Is that a threat ;) ?

[dougnewmanatsea]

OK, here goes with BAHAMA STAR and EMERALD SEAS.

First we'll start out with BAHAMA STAR. I am assuming here that you mean BAHAMA STAR (1959-1969) and not her replacement NEW BAHAMA STAR, which I'm not going to discuss.

BAHAMA STAR, oddly enough, was built as a cruise ship, but later used as a liner before going back to cruising. She was built in 1931 as the BORINQUEN, used for cruises between New York and Puerto Rico, for the New York & Porto Rico (sic) Steamship Company. After use as a troop ship in WWII, she continued on cruise service from New York to the Caribbean until 1953 when she was bought by the Arosa Line.

The Panamanian-flag Arosa Line was created in 1951 by one Nicolo Rizzi, a Swiss businessman who named his company after Mount Arosa. The company focused on trans-Atlantic passage for immigrants and budget tourists (e.g. students).

AROSA STAR was seriously rebuilt and entered service in 1954 on the Canadia run and also operated some cruises. Arosa went bankrupt in 1958 and the ship was sold to Eastern Cruise Line, who renamed her BAHAMA STAR. She entered service cruising from Miami in 1959. They kept her until 1969 when she was sold to a company who planned on using her as a hotel on the US West Coast. Instead, in 1970, during a storm, she was wrecked at Port Hueneme, CA, where she was laid-up. For more on the wreck, see this page (http://home.pacbell.net/steamer/bahstar.htm) from Bruce Vancil.

Now for EMERALD SEAS. She was built in 1944 not as a cruise ship or liner but as a troop ship for the US Navy, the GEN. W. P. RICHARDSON. She was used for trooping duties until 1949 when she was renamed LAGUARDIA converted for passenger use and chartered to American Export for their trans-Atlantic service as a temporary measure until their INDPENDENCE and CONSTITUTION were built. In 1952, when the new ships were ready, she was laid up at the James River National Defense Reserve Fleet in Virginia until 1957 when she was sold to Textron Corp., who renamed her LEILANI and formed the Hawaiian-American Steamship Company to use her on service from San Francisco to Hawaii. The service was a failure and in 1959 she was laid-up once again.

In 1960 the ship - by then nearing middle age - was sold to American President Lines, who, after a major refit, introduced her as their PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT for their renowed trans-Pacific service. This lasted for ten years until 1970 when APL sold the ship to Chandris, who renamed her ATLANTIS after yet another ambitious conversion, this time to be a full-time cruise ship, despite the fact that she was by then quite elderly.

Unfortunately her Chandris career did not last long: she was sold in 1972 to Eastern Cruise Lines (the same company as the Eastern Steamship of BAHAMA STAR fame - see below for more). They renamed her EMERALD SEAS and used her on the Bahamas run from Miami through 1992, later under the Admiral Cruises banner (see below). She was sold to Greek owners, who renamed her first TERIFFICA, then FUNTASTICA, then FANTASTICA, and finally SAPPHIRE SEAS. Despite various plans to bring her back to service, she remained laid-up at Piraeus. In 1998 she was sold to Majestic International Cruises, who renamed her OCEAN EXPLORER I. After a brief stint as a hotel ship at Lisbon for Expo 98, Majestic chartered her in 1999 to the World Cruise Company, part of Canada's Marine Expeditions group. She was intended to make back-to-back world cruises for the entire eight-year charter. But in 2000, partway through the first world cruise, Marine Expeditions replaced her with another ship. She went back to Greece where she has been laid-up ever since. (Marine Expeditions went under not long after.)

This past April (2004), the ship was sold to Indian breakers, but has not yet left Greece as apparently her new owners are waiting for scrap prices to rise.

Now, all this has hopefully given you some idea of the history of the two ships in question, but tells very little about the company that owned them or how they fit in to cruising history.

Eastern Steamship Lines originated as far back as 1901 as a company providing coastal service along the East Coast of the US. After WWII, only two ships remained, the 1927-vintage sisters EVANGELINE and YARMOUTH. They continued both on coastal services and cruises until 1954, when the company was sold to F. Leslie Fraser. As far as cruising is concerned, this is where the real action begins.

Fraser gave both ships refits, amending YARMOUTH's name to YARMOUTH CASTLE, then to QUEEN OF NASSAU, then back to YARMOUTH CASTLE, and finally back to YARMOUTH again. At some point, the former EVANGELINE was confusingly renamed YARMOUTH CASTLE. The maze of renamings here has always made me dizzy, and virtually every source I've read on the subject cites different names, dates, etc. for the various ships, so just when each ship was renamed and to what remains a mystery to me.

In 1961, YARMOUTH and YARMOUTH CASTLE were sold to a new company, Yarmouth Cruise Line, after Eastern bought the BAHAMA STAR (see above) and ARIADNE. (The YARMOUTH CASTLE later tragically burned, taking 87 lives.)

In 1962, Fraser sold the company to W. R. Lovett, who replaced the aged BAHAMA STAR with NEW BAHAMA STAR (formerly Zim Lines' JERUSALEM) in 1969. In 1970, the company was sold to Norway's Gotaas-Larssen, part of the consortium that had formed Royal Caribbean in 1968. Gotaas-Larssen renamed the company Eastern Cruise Lines, and in 1972 sold ARIADNE to Chandris in part-exchange for ATLANTIS/EMERALD SEAS, and NEW BAHAMA STAR was withdrawn in 1975 (later sank on her way to the breakers), leaving only EMERALD SEAS doing the customary 3- and 4-night cruises to the Bahamas from Miami. They later formed a West Coast subsidiary, Western Cruise Lines, in 1980, with the newly-acquired AZURE SEAS (former SOUTHERN CROSS/CALYPSO, see here (http://www.maritimematters.com/oceanbreeze1.html) for more on this ship from Peter Knego). Later in 1986, they took over a company called Sundance Cruises who had been operating the new (1980) STARDANCER (formerly the DFDS/Scandinavian World Cruises cruise ferry SCANDINAVIA) on 7-night cruises to Alaska in the summer and Mexico on the winter, and curiously retaining use of the ship's car deck. The companies were merged together under the Admiral Cruises name, and soon after Royal Caribbean (who, remember, were part-owned by Gotaas-Larssen at the time) took over full control of Admiral, renaming their holding company Royal Admiral Cruises.

RCCL went about remaking Admiral in their own image, first by ordering a new 48,000 GT ship, FUTURE SEAS, to replace EMERALD SEAS. However by the time she entered service in 1990, they had had a change of heart, and she was introduced instead as Royal Caribbean's own NORDIC EMPRESS (renamed EMPRESS OF THE SEAS earlier this year). From then on, the writing was on the wall for Admiral. STARDANCER received a massive refit in which her car deck was finally removed and became VIKING SERENADE, leaving her old 7-day itineraries in favor of the same 3- and 4-day Baja run plied by AZURE SEAS. AZURE SEAS and EMERALD SEAS ran as Admiral ships on the same routes as their newer replacements VIKING SERENADE and NORDIC EMPRESS until 1992, when RCCL finally pulled the plug on Admiral Cruises and sold off both ships. At that point the Royal Admiral name also disappeared from Royal Caribbean's parent company.

Interestingly, Royal Caribbean co-founder Ed Stephan had been a director of Yarmouth Cruise Line, the company that Eastern sold YARMOUTH and YARMOUTH CASTLE to.

Eastern really were the ones that opened up the Miami cruise market, creating the market conditions that allowed NCL, Royal Caribbean, and eventually Carnival to form. So they have a very important place in cruising history. In a way one could say that the modern cruise industry began in 1954 when Leslie Fraser bought Eastern Steamship.

[DFD1]

Thanks so much Doug. As a young man I enjoyed sailing on the Bahama Star, the Emerald Sea and the Ariadne. I had such a great time on these interesting old ships that I've been at it ever since. Your posts about the history of cruising and the ships that have made it possible are really interesting to me. I have a modest section in the library about ships and cruising. I have printed your posts and will add them to the collection. Thanks again. DFD, Chattanooga

[StephenJohnson]

A minor update to Host Doug's groovy comments...

The transats of the Italian line introduced many of the features we identify with modern cruise ships, especially the expansive open lido sundeck /pool / eating area - including the lido deck name, which was practical for them as they took a much more southerly route to the new world, avoiding the foggy, cold, stormy northern atlantic.

Just FYI

[dougnewmanatsea]

Thanks so much Doug. As a young man I enjoyed sailing on the Bahama Star, the Emerald Sea and the Ariadne.I think you might find this article (http://www.ocean-liner-society.com/dbb_ariadne) (really a letter) about ARIADNE, circa 1969, interesting. It comes from the Dear Bliss (http://www.ocean-liner-society.com/bliss.htm) series of letters. She was already 18 years old by then but sounds like she was mostly in original condition at the time. I haven't seen all that much about her but like all Swedish Lloyd vessels, she looks like she was a very attractive ship.

[DFD1]

Doug: Thanks for the link. Reading the letter really takes me back. I can remember so well the great times we had on her. We still have a wonderful gold Hamilton wrist watch that my dear (then very young) wife bought for my birthday in Nassau while we were there. Nassau was such a charming place then. When we returned home,she had it engraved with the date and the ship name. I wore it for many years then gave it to my son. He has it now and it is one of his treasures. It still runs beautifully. Such good memories.

[imsulin]

So...who can give me info. about the FLAVIA? TIA.

[dougnewmanatsea]

The transats of the Italian line introduced many of the features we identify with modern cruise ships, especially the expansive open lido sundeck /pool / eating areaThey were the first Atlantic liners to have large open pool decks. However I don't believe the casual dining area we call the Lido was ever a feature on Italia vessels. I believe HAL actually get the credit for inventing that when ROTTERDAM (V)'s Cafe de la Paix became their first Lido in 1969.

Doug: Thanks for the link.I'm glad you enjoyed it. The "Dear Bliss" letters are fascinating insights into a different era, especially for those of us that weren't around then.

So...who can give me info. about the FLAVIA? TIA.First, I'm going to interrupt your regularly shceduled programming to note that questions like these can be asked at any time on our What Ever Happened To...??? (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=56) board.

As to FLAVIA - another ship with a fascinating history. She started out in 1947 as Cunard's MEDIA, one of a series of two passenger-cargo ships (the other was PARTHIA). MEDIA and PARTHIA were notable for several features: they were all-first-class ships, and MEDIA (the older of the two) was the very first transatlantic liner to be fitted with stabilisers.

In 1961 she was sold to Italy's Codegar Line who renamed her FLAVIA and completely rebuilt her as an all-tourist-class liner for their Bremerhaven-Sydney service, and later their round-the-world service.

In 1968 the emigrant contracts to Australia changed, and Codegar sold her to Costa who rebuilt her once again into a full-time cruise ship. For most of her Costa career, she operated the popular three- and four-day cruises from Miami to the Bahamas, in competition with NEW BAHAMA STAR, ARIADNE, EMERALD SEAS, etc.

In 1982, Costa sold her to the illustrious C. Y. Tung group of Hong Kong who intended to use her as a cruise ship in Asia. She was renamed FLAVIAN and laid-up at Hong Kong. Tung sold her in 1986 to new owners who renamed her LAVIA but she remained laid-up. In December 1989, the empty ship was gutted by fire at Hong Kong. She was subsequently to Taiwanese shipbreakers and broken up.