Kids in Pinnacle Grill

[jerseygirl3]

If we go to Pinnacle Grill with my sister, BIL, and their 7-year-old twins, how does the charge for the kids work? Do they also have to pay $30 each, or do they order off the regular dining room menu and we tip at our discretion? Anybody know?

[Prada Cowboy]

If we go to Pinnacle Grill with my sister, BIL, and their 7-year-old twins, how does the charge for the kids work? Do they also have to pay $30 each, or do they order off the regular dining room menu and we tip at our discretion? Anybody know?

As far as I remember Kids pay as well the $30...remember they sit there and take away the space for a paying guest! Why don't you just bring them to the Kids club and enjoy the evening by yourself?

Just think you would take your Kids to a luxury restaurant on land...they do not cater for them from McDonalds around the corner!

[LoveMyBoxer]

There is no charge if they choose something from the regular dining room kids menu. We did this with our 7 year old son. He did try some of the items we picked, but he much preferred the regular kids items.

[jerseygirl3]

As far as I remember Kids pay as well the $30...remember they sit there and take away the space for a paying guest! Why don't you just bring them to the Kids club and enjoy the evening by yourself?

Just think you would take your Kids to a luxury restaurant on land...they do not cater for them from McDonalds around the corner!

The only reason I asked is because I thought I read previously on these boards one time that the kids aren't charged. I realize how luxury land restaurants work, but this isn't a land restaurant and I could have sworn someone mentioned that the kids aren't charged, they just order from the regular dining menu. They don't eat enough to even warrant a $30 pp gratuity, but they don't like to go to the kids club. I agree it would be nice to leave them there and have a leisurely dinner by ourselves, but that isn't happening. I was just trying to figure out if it's going to cost $60 to bring the two of them with us. If they charge, that's fine. We'll make other arrangements.

[fireman845]

There is no charge if they choose something from the regular dining room kids menu. We did this with our 7 year old son. He did try some of the items we picked, but he much preferred the regular kids items.


Same with us we took our 3 of 4 girls ages 10, 10, and 12 to PG and they were given the option of $30 a piece or could eat off the dining room menu. Two of them chose the Dining room and we paid the $30.

[middle-aged mom]

My husband and I went to the Pinnacle Grill one evening with our 8-year-old daughter, who was given the children's menu from the main dining room. She had a hot dog while we ordered from the Pinnacle Grill menu. They didn't charge us for her dinner. We did leave a cash tip at the end of our meal.

[BM64]

My DH and I ate in the Pinnacle twice last week while on the Noordam and on both evenings there were several tables with children at them. The kids all did seem to be eating pizza or chicken nuggets. I didn't realize that the kids were not chraged if they ate off the kids menu. The Pinnacle for us was a wonderful dining experience, the food was excellent and the service was even better.

[jerseygirl3]

Thanks for everyone's input. Can't wait to board the Westerdam a week from today!!!

[hunnypot1]

I had no idea kids were allowed at the Pinnacle Grill. I just assumed they weren't because Royal Caribbean's specialty restaurant (Chops) was only for guests 13 years of age and up.

That is good to know. My upcoming Oosterdam cruise will be just DH and I, but we also do family cruises. We have taken our kids to fine restaurants before and they know how to behave.

[world~citizen]

I had no idea kids were allowed at the Pinnacle Grill. I just assumed they weren't because Royal Caribbean's specialty restaurant (Chops) was only for guests 13 years of age and up.

That is good to know. My upcoming Oosterdam cruise will be just DH and I, but we also do family cruises. We have taken our kids to fine restaurants before and they know how to behave.


We all love our children and they are all special to us. Still, I remember on our last cruise on the Maasdam in second seating there was a child somewhere in the dining room that cried for what seemed the better part of the dinner each night. I can tell you, the acoustics in the main dining room may not always be so good with respect to hearing your dinner companions, but a child's vocal displeasure carries very well throughout both levels.

Really, I would prefer to offer no opinion about that one way or another. I just think that it would be nice to have a venue on the ship where one could go to have an elegant, adult dining experience. I have no difficulty paying extra for that experience.

I wonder, and this is only thinking out loud, how much benefit seven year old's can get from a dining room like the Pinacle...especially if what is required to please them is to order off the children's menu and perhaps eat pizza or chicken nuggets...which is the experience THEY want.

What hunnypot1 said is the key: "

... We have taken our kids to fine restaurants before and they know how to behave.

As I say, this is just thinking out loud.

Smooth sailing to you.

[kryos]

There is no charge if they choose something from the regular dining room kids menu. We did this with our 7 year old son. He did try some of the items we picked, but he much preferred the regular kids items.
I'm surprised that they can order from the dining room menu in the Pinnacle. Aren't the galleys separate? Wouldn't that mean someone would have to go to the regular dining room galley to pick up the food for them?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kakalina]

I'm gonna get flamed for this; but if I went into the PG for a dinner and found there were three or four children in there I would change my reservations for another night. After 18 cruises I have never seen any children in the PG. It's not that I don't like kids, I just think we need to have an "adult" restaurant where one can truly enjoy the elegance without distractions.

[dakrewser]

I'm gonna get flamed for this; but if I went into the PG for a dinner and found there were three or four children in there I would change my reservations for another night. After 18 cruises I have never seen any children in the PG. It's not that I don't like kids, I just think we need to have an "adult" restaurant where one can truly enjoy the elegance without distractions.

Don't get all ageist on us, now. There are many well-behaved 7-14 year olds I've known whom I would rather dine with then some of the older folks (i.e., "over 21") we've seen on cruises.

It's not a question of age, but of maturity and attitude...

[ON cruiser]

"...if I went into the PG for a dinner and found there were three or four children in there I would change my reservations for another night. After 18 cruises I have never seen any children in the PG. It's not that I don't like kids, I just think we need to have an "adult" restaurant where one can truly enjoy the elegance without distractions."

Amen to the above--well said!

[Roz]

I didn't think the $30 pp charge in the Pinnacle was a gratuity. Is it? In any event, I wouldn't pay it for a child.

Roz

[middle-aged mom]

Jerseygirl3 simply wanted some factual, practical information, which I provided in my answer above. Kids are welcome in the Pinnacle Grill, and they are accommmodated. There are very few children who actually eat there, as it's a long, elaborate dining experience designed for adults.

We brought our daughter one time to the Pinnacle Grill on one particular cruise. A waiter in the Pinncle Grill had been our butler on Half Moon Cay when we purchased the cabana/butler package during our stop there. This gentleman had spent a good part of that day building sandcastles and playing on the beach with our daughter, and was kind to her throughout the rest of the cruise. She wanted to have dinner in the restaurant where he worked. He treated her like a little lady, and she enjoyed her "fancy" dining experience. We tipped him well for his gracious service. The HAL onboard staff and crew extend a welcome to all their guests. That is why we keep coming back to HAL.:)

[world~citizen]

"...if I went into the PG for a dinner and found there were three or four children in there I would change my reservations for another night. After 18 cruises I have never seen any children in the PG. It's not that I don't like kids, I just think we need to have an "adult" restaurant where one can truly enjoy the elegance without distractions."

Amen to the above--well said!

There are numerous special activities and venues for children on most ships I have been on. In fact, there are even ships specially designed for the enjoyment of children.

dakrewser: It is not a question of being ageist. The point I think people are making here (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that it is difficult to have an elegant, dare I say romantic dinner in a lovely dining room such as some of the PGs are, while the children sitting in the table next to you are enjoying their pizza, hot dog and chicken nugget experience.

Yes there are well behaved children. There are children that are not. What we are thinking about is the dining experience of people who pay thousands of dollars to take what is for many, a once in a lifetime cruise, and a further premium to dine in a romantic, alternate restaurant.

What is the answer?

Is it so unreasonable to place an age limit in a specialty restaurant?

What are your views?

[jerseygirl3]

Gee, I didn't mean to start a war here. I was simply asking a question.

Okay, if I had my druthers, I wouldn't take my kids to a specialty restaurant at that age. However, they aren't my kids, they are my sisters kids. They had them later in life and choose to spend as much time on vacation as possible with them. Not necessarily my view, but I have to respect theirs. The other reason they want to take them with them is that the kids (who have been on several cruises and it absolutely amazes me that they can sit through very long dinners and be extremely well behaved...don't think I could have said the same about my kids when they were their ages) went to the kids club on a couple of cruises for dinner time and didn't like it. Again, I would probably insist my kids go so I can have an adult dinner, but my kids are all grown and they are not the issue. As I said, my sister's kids are extremely well behaved. They have traveled all over the world and they have been exposed to all types of food (my sister is a trained chef). And if they want to order off the regular Pinnacle Grill menu (which I doubt because they were preemies and are still quite small, so they have tiny appetites), my sister will have to cough up the $30 each (which I was told by HAL is considered the gratuity). I'm not sure how anybody in nearby tables would be offended if the kids choose to eat a hamburger instead of a steak or how that would interfere with their "fine dining experience." But having said that, the kids are turning 8 the day the cruise ends, so we made one of our reservations for that evening to celebrate their birthday.

As far as people saying they've never seen kids in Pinnacle Grill, I've seen several. In fact, the last time we ate in Pinnacle, there was a young couple with a baby in a high chair. That's when I found out that they accept children.

Like I said, my niece and nephew are way better behaved in a formal dining setting than my kids would have been at their age. I guess because my sister and BIL can afford to take them to nice places, they were exposed to more than my kids were. Having them sit through a 2 1/2-3 hour dinner won't be a problem, trust me. When they were toddlers, if they acted up, my sister immediately removed them from the venue and I guess they learned early on that if they want to go to nice places, they had to learn to behave.

[sail7seas]

If someone at HAL told you the $30 Pinnacle charge is a gratuity they are mistaken. It is NOT. If you wish to tip, you would give your servers cash when you are signing your Pinnacle charge. There is no place on the slip to write in a tip.

[ON cruiser]

Jerseygirl, the key part of your message above was when you noted that your sister would remove the children from the venue if they started to fuss, and so the children learned the patience and manners to sit through a longer dinner. Believe me, I would thus have no trouble sitting next to your family as, from what you state, the children would be well-behaved and, if they suddenly become not, the parents would act appropriately.

What often occurs, however, and not just on cruise ships but in society in general, is that children have not been taught as have your niece/nephew. I have been at movie theatres, live theatre shows, "fine" dining establishments, when the children start to misbehave and what do the parents do? Nothing. That they have a hearing problem, so don't perhaps hear their little darling screeching, is a possibility, but everyone in the surrounding area does hear, unfortunately. Either that or the parents think that we all believe it is "cute" that their little darling is running around the dining room, trying to trip the waiters--saw that happening on my last cruise on the Westerdam. You would think the parents would have a clue, but many are just oblivious.

Another poster earlier pointed out how discordant and distracting it is to have a child crying throughout dinner--not at ones home, or at a MacDonalds, but in a nicer dining venue.

While HAL and many cruiselines are trying to be more family-friendly, and that is fine, one would hope that the families also make the effort that your sister has done with her children, so we can all get along and eat in peace and quiet, in a venue that lends itself to peace and quiet (like the Pinnacle, or even the main dining room).

[dakrewser]

Is it so unreasonable to place an age limit in a specialty restaurant?

What are your views?

Yes. The venue should have a behavior limit. There are many 30-year-olds (and 40-, 50-, 60- and 70-year olds) who don't know how to behave in a refined restaurant. On the other hand, there are a number of 8-, 10- and 12-year olds who do.

I don't believe in serving "chicken nuggets" to anyone in the PG, however. It has a menu and that's what the diners should be chosing from.

[jtl513]

I'm surprised that they can order from the dining room menu in the Pinnacle. Aren't the galleys separate? Wouldn't that mean someone would have to go to the regular dining room galley to pick up the food for them?On Vista and R-class ships the P.G. is very close to the main galley, and it wouldn't be a long walk. On the S-class ships, I can't figure out from the deck plan where the P.G. galley is! :confused: :confused:

[NoNoNanette]

Yes. The venue should have a behavior limit. There are many 30-year-olds (and 40-, 50-, 60- and 70-year olds) who don't know how to behave in a refined restaurant. On the other hand, there are a number of 8-, 10- and 12-year olds who do.

HAL and other lines aren't even able to control passenger's attire. Do you REALLY think that they're going to control "behavior" at $30 per head? :rolleyes:

NO WAY.

I say, let the kids in the Pinnacle when adults are able to hang out at the oasis area. :)

[jerseygirl3]

Jerseygirl, the key part of your message above was when you noted that your sister would remove the children from the venue if they started to fuss, and so the children learned the patience and manners to sit through a longer dinner. Believe me, I would thus have no trouble sitting next to your family as, from what you state, the children would be well-behaved and, if they suddenly become not, the parents would act appropriately.

What often occurs, however, and not just on cruise ships but in society in general, is that children have not been taught as have your niece/nephew. I have been at movie theatres, live theatre shows, "fine" dining establishments, when the children start to misbehave and what do the parents do? Nothing. That they have a hearing problem, so don't perhaps hear their little darling screeching, is a possibility, but everyone in the surrounding area does hear, unfortunately. Either that or the parents think that we all believe it is "cute" that their little darling is running around the dining room, trying to trip the waiters--saw that happening on my last cruise on the Westerdam. You would think the parents would have a clue, but many are just oblivious.

Another poster earlier pointed out how discordant and distracting it is to have a child crying throughout dinner--not at ones home, or at a MacDonalds, but in a nicer dining venue.

While HAL and many cruiselines are trying to be more family-friendly, and that is fine, one would hope that the families also make the effort that your sister has done with her children, so we can all get along and eat in peace and quiet, in a venue that lends itself to peace and quiet (like the Pinnacle, or even the main dining room).

Very well said. I know what you mean about parents who ignore their children's unruly behavior. I am a nurse in a busy pediatric practice, and you wouldn't believe the things I've seen parents let their kids get away with!!! I always say those parents will regret their laziness in disciplining their kids when the kids become teenagers and are completely out of control.

I was very strict with my kids when they were little and certain behavior was expected of them. Although I couldn't afford to take my children to the exotic places my sister takes her children, mine were still expected to behave or we would leave. And believe me, it wasn't an idle threat...if they acted up, we left. It didn't take long for them to get the message. It took a lot of hard work and patience on my husbands and my part, but my kids grew up to be very responsible adults who never had a run in with the law (that I know of!!!LOL).

I don't think taking very young children (like infants) into a formal setting is appropriate, though, because at that young an age, they aren't really able to comprehend proper behavior. But by the time they are between 2-3, they start to get the message loud and clear!!

Jo-Ann

[Zesty Italian]

Awhile back I had asked about the kid's club so my DH and I could eat in the adult only restaurant. I was informed rather abruptly that there was no adult only on HAL. Being new to HAL, I was quite surprised. On Disney, a kids ship, kids are not allowed in the specialty venue. Although my children do know how to behave in such a rest., I prefer an adult only policy. My kids would choose the children's menu anyway, and sadly many kids do not behave and ruin an expensive dinner for everyone. Having said that ,I applaud the OP's sister for raising her children with manners and agree that many adults can't say the same. I would also point out that ,if we eat in the PG , we would have to take them as the kid's club doesn't open till 8PM (way too late for us with a 5PM dinnertime.) I would suggest HAL have the kid's club operate during lunch and dinner as at the Grand Hotel on Mackinaw Island. It is a fancy hotel that only has the kid's club during meal and evening hours so kids and adults are happy. Just a thought.

[momofmeg]

I had no idea kids were allowed at the Pinnacle Grill. I just assumed they weren't because Royal Caribbean's specialty restaurant (Chops) was only for guests 13 years of age and up.

That is good to know. My upcoming Oosterdam cruise will be just DH and I, but we also do family cruises. We have taken our kids to fine restaurants before and they know how to behave.


I know that is disapointing to me also. So many children nowadays are not well behaved-now with well mannered children I would not have a problem with.

[Scrap Addict]

My 5 year old daughter's favorite food? Foie Gras.

When asked what she wanted for her 4th birthday dinner, she wanted to go to Handke's (a AAA 5 5 diamond restaurant in Ohio) for their Foie Gras.

She'll be eating in the PG on our cruise.

[kryos]

I say, let the kids in the Pinnacle when adults are able to hang out at the oasis area. :)
Don't laugh ... we did hang out at the Oasis on my 2006 Hawaii/South Pacific cruise. There were no teens on the sailing, so they opened the area up for general use. It is very nice.

I guess I'd have to say it depends on the age/maturity level of the kids as to whether they should be allowed in the Pinnacle. A well-behaved 12 year old would be no problem as far as I'm concerned. A screaming baby would be, as would a rambunctious child running around the restaurant disturbing the other diners.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[hunnypot1]

My kids have been taught restaurant manners and usually order from the adult menu. I can't stand having them eat essentially "junk food", which is usually what kid menus offer. On our last cruise they enjoyed steak, shrimp, salad, etc.

If they tried to draw attention to themselves via some of the tactics mentioned in other posts, they would be OUTTA THERE so fast it would make their heads spin...and they know that....so, they have learned to behave themselves.

:)

[world~citizen]

So, the appropriate PG policy:

"No one shall be allowed in the PG prior to their 24th month, subject to the PG code of conduct to be strictly enforced by HAL behavior police".:rolleyes:

How about opening the PG for lunch when preschoolers can apprentice the full range of adult skills under the doting tutelage of their adoring parents, while restricting the evening hours for graduated adults.

No I suppose not either.

[NoNoNanette]

Your above post delighted me, world-citizen. :D

With just over 100 posts, you've recognized the dynamics of this HAL forum. ;)

However, be forewarned: The HAL BEHAVIOR POLICE are becoming stretched thin between trying to control proper dress in the dining room, cigarette smoking, booze smuggling, topless sunbathing, and those walking about in public areas with their bathrobes.

SO MANY infringements/so little time! :)

Just HOPE that you don't have to call upon these folks for back-up. You might get a delayed response! :eek:

[CocoKai]

Just took both of my children to the PG. They are 13 and 11, love fine dining and love fine food. If it was socially acceptable, they would have licked the last morsel of filet juice off their plates. They both ate full meals and behaved like well-behaved adults.

Our mistake was that we took them there the first night. After the PG experience, all the steak in the dining room was the "long chew" kind. Surf and Turf night was virtually gross. In fact, I think they cut filet shapes out of some old sirloin or london broil and called it "filet." The meat in the PG is well worth the extra money.....just mad that I ordered the petite cut!!!!

[nchank]

What are chicken nuggets? :confused:

[RuthC]

What are chicken nuggets? :confused:
Might you know them as chicken fingers? Or chicken tenders?

The nuggets are usually smaller pieces prepared the same way.
It's white meat chicken, battered, and deep fried.

[Copper10-8]

What are chicken nuggets? :confused:

pretty good

[frodo63]

I had no idea kids were allowed at the Pinnacle Grill. I just assumed they weren't because Royal Caribbean's specialty restaurant (Chops) was only for guests 13 years of age and up.

That is good to know. My upcoming Oosterdam cruise will be just DH and I, but we also do family cruises. We have taken our kids to fine restaurants before and they know how to behave.

These "rules" must be guidelines for the staff only. I had my kids at Royal Caribbean's specialty resturant one was 9 at the time. The staff were really tickled at my kids comparing the taste of the food served there to the main dining room. I assure you, they could taste the difference. They also sent their left over food up later for the kids to have as their "midnight" snack.

[Copper10-8]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Copper10-8/Chickennuggets3.jpg?t=1207009830

[LAFFNVEGAS]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Copper10-8/Chickennuggets3.jpg?t=1207009830
John, how long did it take you to find chicken nuggets on a Dutch Plate(appropriate for the HAL board)?:) Or did you just whip up a batch, put them on a plate you had and took a picture?;)

[Copper10-8]

John, how long did it take you to find chicken nuggets on a Dutch Plate(appropriate for the HAL board)?:) Or did you just whip up a batch, put them on a plate you had and took a picture?;)

It took some work;) The Dutch plate was a bonus and the mustard came off the hotdog

[sail7seas]

I HAVE that plate and love it!. :) :D
Don't have any of the chicken thingees though. :)

[atudorquene]

Jerseygirl, the key part of your message above was when you noted that your sister would remove the children from the venue if they started to fuss, and so the children learned the patience and manners to sit through a longer dinner. Believe me, I would thus have no trouble sitting next to your family as, from what you state, the children would be well-behaved and, if they suddenly become not, the parents would act appropriately.

What often occurs, however, and not just on cruise ships but in society in general, is that children have not been taught as have your niece/nephew. I have been at movie theatres, live theatre shows, "fine" dining establishments, when the children start to misbehave and what do the parents do? Nothing. That they have a hearing problem, so don't perhaps hear their little darling screeching, is a possibility, but everyone in the surrounding area does hear, unfortunately. Either that or the parents think that we all believe it is "cute" that their little darling is running around the dining room, trying to trip the waiters--saw that happening on my last cruise on the Westerdam. You would think the parents would have a clue, but many are just oblivious.

Another poster earlier pointed out how discordant and distracting it is to have a child crying throughout dinner--not at ones home, or at a MacDonalds, but in a nicer dining venue.

While HAL and many cruiselines are trying to be more family-friendly, and that is fine, one would hope that the families also make the effort that your sister has done with her children, so we can all get along and eat in peace and quiet, in a venue that lends itself to peace and quiet (like the Pinnacle, or even the main dining room).

My niece, who is now 17, was able to comport herself properly from the time she learned to speak. However, I wouldn't expect most children under the age of 6 to be able to benefit from fine dining. That said, my niece - to my horror, because of the animal cruelty aspects and the fact that we don't favour eating entrails - has favoured fois gras from an early age. She learned how to experience and enjoy fine dining and has never embarassed us when we took her out with us.

That said, and to agree with some of the comments on this board, a lot rests with the parents, and many modern parents give their children no boundries. We were out with our in-laws at a nice restaurant the other evening and there was what appeared to be a five year old banshee at the table next to us. Her parent's did nothing to quiet her loud screams, and allowed her to run around unattended in the restaurant. Frankly, a child needs to learn that there are repercussions for bad behaviour, obviously from their grins, these parent's thought her behaviour was 'cute'. The rest of the diners did not. Personally, I would have swept her up and taken her home via taxi, and told her that until she could act in a civilized manner that she would not be joining the grown-ups when going out. Then I would have shipped her out to a Swiss Boarding School until she was 18 and could act like a human being - just joking :D

Again, it depends on the child, and let me tell you my niece would not have wanted pizza or nuggets even as a small child. She would have wanted the Asparagus with Bearnaise - she went through a period of wanting to be a chef, LOL! I know adults in their 40's whom I would not want to take to the Pinnacle, as they have no boundaries.

I suppose that folks can take advantage of the baby-sitters that I have read are offered onboard, and I guess they probably should consider it an option if their kids might pose a problem. If they wish to be courteous to the other guests onboard.

[Golfette]

My kids have been taught restaurant manners and usually order from the adult menu. I can't stand having them eat essentially "junk food", which is usually what kid menus offer. On our last cruise they enjoyed steak, shrimp, salad, etc.

If they tried to draw attention to themselves via some of the tactics mentioned in other posts, they would be OUTTA THERE so fast it would make their heads spin...and they know that....so, they have learned to behave themselves.

:)


If all parents reacted like that, there would be no need for this thread. Unfortunately, for each enlightened and compassionate parent like you, hunnypot, there is one of the "other" kind.

[pipedreams62]

What are chicken nuggets? :confused:

They're actually pigeons

http://www.greece.k12.ny.us/webworld2000/images/images/PIGEON.JPG

[middle-aged mom]

They're actually pigeons

http://www.greece.k12.ny.us/webworld2000/images/images/PIGEON.JPG

:p We modern parents who raise wolves like to treat our children to that gourmet dish, " Drunken Squirrel"....:eek: :D

http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/animals/assets/bad_squirrel.jpg

[hunnypot1]

[/u][/i]


If all parents reacted like that, there would be no need for this thread. Unfortunately, for each enlightened and compassionate parent like you, hunnypot, there is one of the "other" kind.


You are very kind... :)

One of my friends (who is a parent of three teenagers) said, "Of course you teach them how to behave...I mean, you've got to live with them!"

LOL! So true! :D

[babyher]

You are very kind... :)

One of my friends (who is a parent of three teenagers) said, "Of course you teach them how to behave...I mean, you've got to live with them!"

LOL! So true! :D


My teens amaze me . I get the nicest compliments from teachers , and the parents of their friends on how well behaved and polite and helpful they are. Of course I am very pleased and proud of them.

But what the hell happens to these kids when they come back to my house :) :)

Not that they are "BAD" kids at home , just different :)


oh well eventually they will be out in the world on their own , and its good they are already making a good impression.

[mamaofami]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Copper10-8/Chickennuggets3.jpg?t=1207009830


LOL. I babysit and make dinner twice a week for my 11 and 6 year old grandsons. I have cooked up all sorts of homemade wonderful treats for them, but these boxed chicken nuggets are what they love best. Go figure!

[Golfette]

LOL. I babysit and make dinner twice a week for my 11 and 6 year old grandsons. I have cooked up all sorts of homemade wonderful treats for them, but these boxed chicken nuggets are what they love best. Go figure!

Because they're greasy, deep-fat fried and crunchy. :o

[mamaofami]

Because they're greasy, deep-fat fried and crunchy. :o

I'm sure you're right, because everything I cook, while tasty, is also healthy and those are a treat!

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

A few years back, when we went on the Marnier, dad took me to the Italian resturant...cant remember the name of it... I was 21 at the time, next to us, was a couple, who obviously just met, or they'd just sat together... reguardless, they keep drinking the wine... and were rather louder than everyone else, and their conversation, we could hear every word...

that put a damper on our 'experience'.

[world~citizen]

By that I mean - to every thing there is a season...

Of course some adults behave badly and some children don't etc. I'm sure some children would be better drivers at 14 than some 40 year old drivers I have seen. So do we let 14 year olds drive?

So if you say entry into enhanced dining venues depends on the maturity of the child to be considered on an individual basis, how to you implement the policy. Will HAL staff be required to observe the behaviour of said children before making the booking? Do they make an on the spot evaluation? Do they take the parents word for it that their childrens behaviour will be impeccable? If the behaviour of the children is deemed to be inappropriate half way through dinner will the offenders be required to leave?

How in the world would you implement an "it depends on the child" policy?

The situation of a 5 year old who likes foie gras has been brought up. There is more to it than a child's enjoyment of an exotic food. Look for a moment at the ambience of the PG and consider, for a moment, for whom and what it was designed for:

"This intimate reservations-only venue offers an elegant, sophisticated dining experience. Featuring premium Sterling Silver beef, inspired seafood dishes and many select wines rated "Excellent" by Wine Spectator - as well as distinctive Bvlgari® china, Riedel® stemware and Frette® linens"

Realistically now, is this the venue for a 5 year old? Somewhere in between the time that child discovers the cure for cancer, but before she solves the riddle of world peace, she may want to have an adult, romantic dining experience with her significant other, and I think she should have the opportunity to experience it on a cruise ship. :) I really do.

Yes, children are apprentice adults and they have to learn sometime what it is to dine in a premium dining venue. They also have to learn that not all the opportunities and experiences in this life will be available to you at all times. How we learn to wait is at least as important as how we learn to do.

As I say, to every thing there is a season. If the PG as a premium romantic dining venue can be open over lunch (and hot dogs), I say by all means, bring in the family.

Reserve the evening hours of this dining venue for those it was really designed for.

On a romantic evening, on an expensive cruise, in a sophisticated dining room - it is their season.

Smooth sailing always.

[kakalina]

By that I mean - to every thing there is a season...

Of course some adults behave badly and some children don't etc. I'm sure some children would be better drivers at 14 than some 40 year old drivers I have seen. So do we let 14 year olds drive?

So if you say entry into enhanced dining venues depends on the maturity of the child to be considered on an individual basis, how to you implement the policy. Will HAL staff be required to observe the behaviour of said children before making the booking? Do they make an on the spot evaluation? Do they take the parents word for it that their childrens behaviour will be impeccable? If the behaviour of the children is deemed to be inappropriate half way through dinner will the offenders be required to leave?

How in the world would you implement an "it depends on the child" policy?

The situation of a 5 year old who likes foie gras has been brought up. There is more to it than a child's enjoyment of an exotic food. Look for a moment at the ambience of the PG and consider, for a moment, for whom and what it was designed for:

"This intimate reservations-only venue offers an elegant, sophisticated dining experience. Featuring premium Sterling Silver beef, inspired seafood dishes and many select wines rated "Excellent" by Wine Spectator - as well as distinctive Bvlgari® china, Riedel® stemware and Frette® linens"

Somewhere in between the time that child discovers the cure for cancer, but before she solves the riddle of world peace, she may want to have an adult, romantic dining experience with her significant other, and I think she should have the opportunity to experience it on a cruise ship. :) I really do.

Yes, children are apprentice adults and they have to learn sometime what it is to dine in a premium dining venue. They also have to learn that not all the opportunities and experiences in this life will be available to you at all times. How we learn to wait is at least as important as how we learn to do.

As I say, to every thing there is a season. If the PG as a premium romantic dining venue can be open over lunch (and hot dogs), I say by all means, bring in the family.

Reserve the evening hours of this dining venue for those it was really designed for.

On a romantic evening, on an expensive cruise, in a sophisticated dining room - it is their season.

Smooth sailing always.

Well said!

[dakrewser]

Reserve the evening hours of this dining venue for those it was really designed for.

On a romantic evening, on an expensive cruise, in a sophisticated dining room - it is their season.

Smooth sailing always.

So where do you draw the line - 12 year olds, 18, 21, 35???

Who determines when someone is old enough for a "romantic evening"? Does one need to be post-puberty? Dining tete-a-tete with a significant other? Please, share the guidelines with us...

[pipedreams62]

I've read posts of children sitting at bars,in lounges and now in the Pinnacle grill. Is it wrong of me to think it's sensible to have a few spots that are "Adults Only"

Am I going to make Keith Olbermans


"Worst Person In The World" list this evening?


http://xenutv.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/keith-olbermann-and-globe.jpg

[world~citizen]

One post suggests that between 24-36 months, personalities start to firm up. I notice your upper threshold is 35 years.

Personally, I trust HAL to strike a sensible balance, probably somewhere in between.:)

Smooth sailing to you.

[gizmo]

By that I mean - to every thing there is a season...

Of course some adults behave badly and some children don't etc. I'm sure some children would be better drivers at 14 than some 40 year old drivers I have seen. So do we let 14 year olds drive?

So if you say entry into enhanced dining venues depends on the maturity of the child to be considered on an individual basis, how to you implement the policy. Will HAL staff be required to observe the behaviour of said children before making the booking? Do they make an on the spot evaluation? Do they take the parents word for it that their childrens behaviour will be impeccable? If the behaviour of the children is deemed to be inappropriate half way through dinner will the offenders be required to leave?

How in the world would you implement an "it depends on the child" policy?

The situation of a 5 year old who likes foie gras has been brought up. There is more to it than a child's enjoyment of an exotic food. Look for a moment at the ambience of the PG and consider, for a moment, for whom and what it was designed for:

"This intimate reservations-only venue offers an elegant, sophisticated dining experience. Featuring premium Sterling Silver beef, inspired seafood dishes and many select wines rated "Excellent" by Wine Spectator - as well as distinctive Bvlgari® china, Riedel® stemware and Frette® linens"

Realistically now, is this the venue for a 5 year old? Somewhere in between the time that child discovers the cure for cancer, but before she solves the riddle of world peace, she may want to have an adult, romantic dining experience with her significant other, and I think she should have the opportunity to experience it on a cruise ship. :) I really do.

Yes, children are apprentice adults and they have to learn sometime what it is to dine in a premium dining venue. They also have to learn that not all the opportunities and experiences in this life will be available to you at all times. How we learn to wait is at least as important as how we learn to do.

As I say, to every thing there is a season. If the PG as a premium romantic dining venue can be open over lunch (and hot dogs), I say by all means, bring in the family.

Reserve the evening hours of this dining venue for those it was really designed for.

On a romantic evening, on an expensive cruise, in a sophisticated dining room - it is their season.

Smooth sailing always.

Another vote for "Well said". :)

[hammybee]

I am not aware of any land based restaurants that prohibit children. There must be a few, somewhere.

Anyone?

[middle-aged mom]

If we go to Pinnacle Grill with my sister, BIL, and their 7-year-old twins, how does the charge for the kids work? Do they also have to pay $30 each, or do they order off the regular dining room menu and we tip at our discretion? Anybody know?

Jerseygirl, the original poster, asked the question I quote above. It has been addressed and answered. Regardless of the many articulate, thoughtful opinions on this thread, the reality is that children are made welcome and are accommodated in the Pinnacle Grill.

If there are those who disagree with this policy, then I encourage them to write to HAL, or address it with the hotel manager onboard their next cruise. If the Pinnacle Grill were to be made an adults-only venue in the future, then I would not bring my children there, and I wouldn't expect them to be accommodated. But, for now, children are allowed there.

During our family dinner in the Pinnacle Grill, the staff there made our 8-year-old daughter welcome, the manager provided our daughter with the children's dinner menu from the main dining room (we never requested it ourselves), we had a pleasant and elegant dining experience, the other guests in the Pinnacle Grill appeared to enjoy a pleasant and elegant dining experience, and everyone behaved themselves very nicely, including my daughter's parents;).

I am looking at one of the brochures I recently received from Holland America. The title of this brochure is "Family Cruising, the Perfect Family Vacation". It is quite an extensive brochure, detailing all the sailings and amenities which HAL offers for family groups. There is an entire section on "The Family Reunion Experience", which outlines what family groups will receive if they book a HAL cruise with 15 or more members (8 or more cabins). One of the included benefits is a family lunch at the Pinnacle Grill. I think this is a very nice option, and one to which CC member World-Citizen alluded in his/her post above.

The Pinnacle Grill is also currently open for breakfast to all Penthouse and Deluxe Suite category passengers, including children.

So now I depart from fact, and give you supposition and opinion. I think it would be a fair compromise to continue to make the Pinnacle Grill available to families for breakfast (in the appropriate categories) and lunch, while designating it an adults-only venue for dinner. I leave it up to HAL, or you, to determine what constitutes an adult.;)

[world~citizen]

Jerseygirl, the original poster, asked the question I quote above. It has been addressed and answered. Regardless of the many articulate, thoughtful opinions on this thread, the reality is that children are made welcome and are accommodated in the Pinnacle Grill.

If there are those who disagree with this policy, then I encourage them to write to HAL, or address it with the hotel manager onboard their next cruise. If the Pinnacle Grill were to be made an adults-only venue in the future, then I would not bring my children there, and I wouldn't expect them to be accommodated. But, for now, children are allowed there.

During our family dinner in the Pinnacle Grill the staff there made our 8-year-old daughter welcome, the manager provided our daughter with the children's dinner menu from the main dining room (we never requested it ourselves), we had a pleasant and elegant dining experience, the other guests in the Pinnacle Grill appeared to enjoy a pleasant and elegant dining experience, and everyone behaved themselves very nicely, including my daughter's parents;).

I am looking at one of the brochures I recently received from Holland America. The title of this brochure is "Family Cruising, the Perfect Family Vacation". It is quite an extensive brochure, detailing all the sailings and amenities which HAL offers for family groups. There is an entire section on "The Family Reunion Experience", which outlines what family groups will receive if they book a HAL cruise with 15 or more members (8 or more cabins). One of the included benefits is a family lunch at the Pinnacle Grill. I think this is a very nice option, and one to which CC member World-Citizen alluded in his/her post above.

The Pinnacle Grill is also currently open for breakfast to all Penthouse and Deluxe Suite category passengers, including children.

So now I depart from fact, and give you supposition and opinion. I think it would be a fair compromise to continue to make the Pinnacle Grill available to families for breakfast (in the appropriate categories) and lunch, while designating it an adults-only venue for dinner. I leave it up to HAL, or you, to determine what constitutes an adult.;)

I think that an outstanding compromise! I believe it should be left to HAL to set the age requirement. They have access to a whole range of experts, not to mention focus groups, to guide them to a sensible decision.

[GeriatricNurse]

Jerseygirl, the original poster, asked the question I quote above. It has been addressed and answered. Regardless of the many articulate, thoughtful opinions on this thread, the reality is that children are made welcome and are accommodated in the Pinnacle Grill.

If there are those who disagree with this policy, then I encourage them to write to HAL, or address it with the hotel manager onboard their next cruise. If the Pinnacle Grill were to be made an adults-only venue in the future, then I would not bring my children there, and I wouldn't expect them to be accommodated. But, for now, children are allowed there.

During our family dinner in the Pinnacle Grill, the staff there made our 8-year-old daughter welcome, the manager provided our daughter with the children's dinner menu from the main dining room (we never requested it ourselves), we had a pleasant and elegant dining experience, the other guests in the Pinnacle Grill appeared to enjoy a pleasant and elegant dining experience, and everyone behaved themselves very nicely, including my daughter's parents;).

I am looking at one of the brochures I recently received from Holland America. The title of this brochure is "Family Cruising, the Perfect Family Vacation". It is quite an extensive brochure, detailing all the sailings and amenities which HAL offers for family groups. There is an entire section on "The Family Reunion Experience", which outlines what family groups will receive if they book a HAL cruise with 15 or more members (8 or more cabins). One of the included benefits is a family lunch at the Pinnacle Grill. I think this is a very nice option, and one to which CC member World-Citizen alluded in his/her post above.

The Pinnacle Grill is also currently open for breakfast to all Penthouse and Deluxe Suite category passengers, including children.

So now I depart from fact, and give you supposition and opinion. I think it would be a fair compromise to continue to make the Pinnacle Grill available to families for breakfast (in the appropriate categories) and lunch, while designating it an adults-only venue for dinner. I leave it up to HAL, or you, to determine what constitutes an adult.;)


Too bad that children are allowed in the PG!

Disney Cruise Line has an ADULT ONLY dining venue called "PALO"! Why not HAL?

On Celebrity, we NEVER saw children in the alternative dining venue, which, by the way, would put the PG to shame in all aspects!

[lawyerrose]

NO, NO, PLEASE NO CHILDREN IN THE PG!!!!!!!!!!:( ARE YOU LISTENING, HAL?? NO KIDS AT DINNER IN THE PG!! We adults must protect our few (getting fewer by the day) places where we can enjoy adults-only ambiance.

<ok, I'm ducking now>

[Compass Rose]

The only child I want at my PG dinner table is my husband. Period.

[wdw1972]

NO, NO, PLEASE NO CHILDREN IN THE PG!!!!!!!!!!:( ARE YOU LISTENING, HAL?? NO KIDS AT DINNER IN THE PG!! We adults must protect our few (getting fewer by the day) places where we can enjoy adults-only ambiance.

<ok, I'm ducking now>

No need to duck - I agree with you. The best specialty restaurant at sea is Palo on Disney Cruise Line, and they don't permit anyone under age 18. It fills up every night, too!

I doubt it's ever been a problem on HAL before the Vista Class ships started marketing to families with kids. I took my son in there on the Amsterdam, but he was 15, wearing a suit, and towered over me. He also grew up socializing with adults, so I knew he wouldn't act like a kid in there. However, if there had been an age limit I would have gladly skipped it that cruise.

Sue/WDW1972
Veendam 4/06/08

[lawyerrose]

No need to duck - I agree with you. The best specialty restaurant at sea is Palo on Disney Cruise Line, and they don't permit anyone under age 18. It fills up every night, too!

I doubt it's ever been a problem on HAL before the Vista Class ships started marketing to families with kids. I took my son in there on the Amsterdam, but he was 15, wearing a suit, and towered over me. He also grew up socializing with adults, so I knew he wouldn't act like a kid in there. However, if there had been an age limit I would have gladly skipped it that cruise.

Sue/WDW1972
Veendam 4/06/08

A nice, civilized 15 year old is not a problem.

[pipedreams62]

Yes I know that's what they say. However all my brochures are loaded with pictures of

1. Guy and girl looking out stern of ship

2. Guy and girl sipping a drink

3. Guy and girl eating on their veranda.


they might claim to cater to families but the glossy brochures show NO kids

just an observation.

[middle-aged mom]

Yes I know that's what they say. However all my brochures are loaded with pictures of

1. Guy and girl looking out stern of ship

2. Guy and girl sipping a drink

3. Guy and girl eating on their veranda.


they might claim to cater to families but the glossy brochures show NO kids

just an observation.

That's most likely because HAL's marketing department sends you their brochures designed for adults. Because my husband and I have traveled HAL with our children, we receive the brochures targeted for HAL's family demographic. Many of the brochures I receive are loaded with photos of grandparents, parents, teens and kids all cruising together. As I mentioned earlier, the latest HAL brochure I received is titled "Family Cruising, the Perfect Family Vacation." I quickly counted the numbers of photos with children, and I found ten, in just one brochure. HAL has all kinds of brochures for various target groups.

[dakrewser]

A nice, civilized 15 year old is not a problem.

What about a nice, civilized 14 year old? 12? 10? Below which age can you guarantee they are not "civilized"?

Also, what about an uncivilized 40-something year old? I find many more of those on my cruises than uncivilized teens...

[Softball20]

I cannot at all see why a child in a dining room would detract from one's dining experience? We have been taking our children, who are now 15 and 18 to fine restaurants for many years. They love good food, they know the difference between good and not good food and they know how to behave in such situations whether it is on land or at sea. They have never been into kids menus, which annony me to no end. To me, a kids menu should just be the same stuff on the regular menu but smaller portions (which I could use, too!). If kids grow up eating good food, it won't be a big deal to them. If they are taught to behave and enjoy a nice dining experience, there should be no issues. I remember our first HAL cruise, when they were 11 and 14 -- on the first night we could tell that our tablemates in the main dining room, two very lovely older couples, were kind of concerned when they saw us coming. When my kids ordered duck and whatever the seafood selection was (won't find that on the kids menu!), they were impressed. They engaged the kids in conversation right from the beginning, and we all had a great time every night at dinner. The staff was also very accommodating to the kids, as I have found in many fine restaurants, and the kids appropriately enjoy the fuss.

I have certainly been in restaurants, fine or otherwise, where there was some obnoxious guest who happened to be an "adult." I'd rather have my kids with me! I also, on a cruise or land based vacation, wouldn't want my kids to have to go to the kids club. It's their vacation, too, why shouldn't they get the benefit of the good food, too? My husband and I love having time to ourselves as well, and certainly do things without them, but on a family vacation, we want to spend time with our family!

Back to the original question: I honestly don't have any insight as to HAL's policy on kids in the specialty restaurants, but I think it would be a shame to not allow them. It is of course, the parents' responsibility to address any misbehavior - which I do understand and have witnessed, doesn't always happen. As for the cost, my position has always been with my kids that I don't mind paying for it if they will eat it.

[CowPrincess]

It is of course, the parents' responsibility to address any misbehavior - which I do understand and have witnessed, doesn't always happen.

Which is the reason some of us object to children in a fine dining setting. DH & I have had too many dinners ruined by someone's little darling being out of control, screaming and crying or running around, and the parents sitting there totally oblivious or uncaring. I will no longer accept a table in a fine dining establishment that seats me by or near children. If the children are well-behaved, and I'm not sitting by them, I miss nothing. If they are NOT well-behaved, they can "contribute" to someone else's evening.

I didn't develop my opinion in a vacuum -- if I'd not had numerous encounters with "adjourned" parents and their out of control children, I wouldn't have developed any opinion.

[Softball20]

It's unfortunate to single out a whole class as behaving badly.

How do you know that the "adult" you are seated next to in the restaurant, or elsewhere for that matter, won't behave poorly? We were flying back from Europe last summer and the gentleman (late 40's, early 50's) in the very front seat was carrying on about everything. He was giving the flight attendant a hard time and was being obnoxious. Years ago we were on a bus being transferred from the airport to a resort in the Caribbean. There was a guy on the bus, twenty-something, who was loud, rude, lewd, obnoxious and drunk. All of us, including my kids who were 4 & 7 at the time, were very happy when he finally passed out and things quieted down. Who would have thought that these adults - who should know better -- would have carried on like this?

Just my two cents.

[babyher]

It's unfortunate to single out a whole class as behaving badly.

How do you know that the "adult" you are seated next to in the restaurant, or elsewhere for that matter, won't behave poorly? We were flying back from Europe last summer and the gentleman (late 40's, early 50's) in the very front seat was carrying on about everything. He was giving the flight attendant a hard time and was being obnoxious. Years ago we were on a bus being transferred from the airport to a resort in the Caribbean. There was a guy on the bus, twenty-something, who was loud, rude, lewd, obnoxious and drunk. All of us, including my kids who were 4 & 7 at the time, were very happy when he finally passed out and things quieted down. Who would have thought that these adults - who should know better -- would have carried on like this?

Just my two cents.


DW and I were in a nice restaurant a few weeks back. Not an Applebees or TGIF , but not a 5 star either . And there was this table of about 8 women all in their 40s maybe early 50s , it was obviously one of the "ladies" birthdays because they came out with the cake and sang and all that.


I never heard such loud, obnoxious , not even conversation, just cackleing and high fiving eachother and being annoying. Again they were not young girls.


Their waiter was a young college age fella , nice kid , hes waited on us a million times. everytime he went to the table for something these women acted like they just got out of prison that afternoon.

Then the birthday girl opened her gifts.

A prude I will never be , but in the middle of a family restaurant was not the place to be waving this stuff around.


There were actually young people looking at these "ladies' in disgust.

So you just never know

[iceman93]

Chalk this up as one of those debates for the ages. Like jeans in the dining room or smoking on verandahs, people have their deeply-ingrained opinions on whether or not kids should be allowed to do pretty much anything (including take a HAL cruise at all).

My opinions on the matter have been explained before, but for now I'll just second the sentiment that HAL has not issued any guidelines regarding children in the PG, so therefore they are allowed. If you don't like it, either try to get the policy changed by writing to the corporate office, take your cruise and don't visit the PG, or don't cruise HAL at all.

[atudorquene]

Chalk this up as one of those debates for the ages. Like jeans in the dining room or smoking on verandahs, people have their deeply-ingrained opinions on whether or not kids should be allowed to do pretty much anything (including take a HAL cruise at all).

My opinions on the matter have been explained before, but for now I'll just second the sentiment that HAL has not issued any guidelines regarding children in the PG, so therefore they are allowed. If you don't like it, either try to get the policy changed by writing to the corporate office, take your cruise and don't visit the PG, or don't cruise HAL at all.

disruptive folks or kids, you can ask to be moved to another table. They have paid for the experience, as have you, so you have just as much right to an enjoyable meal, as they do. So, politely speak up and ask to be moved if something bothers you. I am sure they would accomodate you if they can. That is what I would do, and we DO plan on taking a few meals at the PG.

Bon Voyage

[world~citizen]

Chalk this up as one of those debates for the ages. Like jeans in the dining room or smoking on verandahs, people have their deeply-ingrained opinions on whether or not kids should be allowed to do pretty much anything (including take a HAL cruise at all).

My opinions on the matter have been explained before, but for now I'll just second the sentiment that HAL has not issued any guidelines regarding children in the PG, so therefore they are allowed. If you don't like it, either try to get the policy changed by writing to the corporate office, take your cruise and don't visit the PG, or don't cruise HAL at all.

I am unaware of any debates/discussions here that come to a unanimous final conclusion. Indeed, it would seem most unlikely in a forum like this. Though your post does reveal something I didn't know - that people had suggested banning children from HAL cruises...I have searched but could not find those posts. I would be curious to know upon what grounds ... perhaps safety?

Of course, if you have an issue with cruise policy or a recommendation to a cruise company, you can communicate with the line directly which is what many members here do (including yours truly). The lines are always appreciative and receptive - or so it seems to me.

Also, and this is important, CC is a forum where cruisers can come together and discuss ALL issues of concern to them with the certainty that the cruise lines monitor these threads. It is like a mini focus group for cruise lines which helps them to understand and evaluate for themselves on an ongoing basis the issues and concerns of their customers.

Put another way, buy intelligently discussing these issues here, you are communicating with the cruise lines. So, your opinion, my opinion, and everyone else's opinion gets put into soup so to speak.

The concept is absolutely brilliant.

Smooth sailing to you.

[iceman93]

Nope, not safety. There is a very vocal minority here who feel that the very presence of children detracts from the experience they expect from a HAL cruise.

And regarding your second point, my concern would be that if a cruise line representative DID peruse these boards that they could be swayed by that very vocal minority (on this or any other issue) and get a skewed view of what passengers really want. This is not a very good mini focus group because the demographics have not been sorted at all. It's fun for us to chat, and we can learn a lot from each others' experiences, but HAL can't do much more than consider anything they read here to be only marginally useful.

[JerseyJaguar]

This thread reminds me of threads at the disney boards. All of the parents who post there have children who love elegant dining and have never acted up in nice restaurants too.

[world~citizen]

Nope, not safety. There is a very vocal minority here who feel that the very presence of children detracts from the experience they expect from a HAL cruise.

And regarding your second point, my concern would be that if a cruise line representative DID peruse these boards that they could be swayed by that very vocal minority (on this or any other issue) and get a skewed view of what passengers really want. This is not a very good mini focus group because the demographics have not been sorted at all. It's fun for us to chat, and we can learn a lot from each others' experiences, but HAL can't do much more than consider anything they read here to be only marginally useful.

Oh, I somewhat more than marginal I think.:)

[caviargal]

Which is the reason some of us object to children in a fine dining setting. DH & I have had too many dinners ruined by someone's little darling being out of control, screaming and crying or running around, and the parents sitting there totally oblivious or uncaring. I will no longer accept a table in a fine dining establishment that seats me by or near children. If the children are well-behaved, and I'm not sitting by them, I miss nothing. If they are NOT well-behaved, they can "contribute" to someone else's evening.

I didn't develop my opinion in a vacuum -- if I'd not had numerous encounters with "adjourned" parents and their out of control children, I wouldn't have developed any opinion.

CowPrincess, I agree. I always advise the hostess that I do not want to be seated near families with children. Since we do not patronize family oriented restaurants as a rule, it is generally not a problem.

I would also prefer that the PG be an adult restaurant, even if it is only after a certain hour. That is one of the few things I prefer about Celebrity. They have and enforce an age limit at their specialty restaurants.

Insofar as dispruptive adults, IME staff seems to have no issue asking adults to leave if they become disorderly but will avoid confrontations with parents who feel their kids are behaving just fine - kids will be kids - even though other passengers may not agree.

[hammybee]

This thread reminds me of threads at the disney boards. All of the parents who post there have children who love elegant dining and have never acted up in nice restaurants too.

In all my years on these boards, I have yet to read a post from a parent who says their children are less than well behaved angles. Funny how this works out.

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

Having worked in retail and now as a Substitute Teacher..

let me tell you... those parents who claim the kids are well behaved... well...I'm sitting here about to laugh myself off my chair...

but having said that... I have met SOME well behaved kids.

[dakrewser]

In all my years on these boards, I have yet to read a post from a parent who says their children are less than well behaved angles.

And they're always acute, never obtuse.... ;)

[gizmo]

This thread reminds me of threads at the disney boards. All of the parents who post there have children who love elegant dining and have never acted up in nice restaurants too.

LOL It is not just the Disney board but all the CC boards.:D

In all my years on these boards, I have yet to read a post from a parent who says their children are less than well behaved angles. Funny how this works out.
Once and only once have I read this and it was on the Hal board. :)

Having worked in retail and now as a Substitute Teacher..

let me tell you... those parents who claim the kids are well behaved... well...I'm sitting here about to laugh myself off my chair...

but having said that... I have met SOME well behaved kids.

I always laugh myself silly when I read about all the well behaved kids. :D

[hammybee]

On Celebrity, we NEVER saw children in the alternative dining venue, ....

I have seen children in the specialty restaurants on Celebrity. A significant difference is, I think, Celebrity charges for the children, as they do adults, regardless of what the children actually eat. This may discourage many parents from bringing their children.

About two-thirds of all cruises sail with very few children because either they sail during school or the number of days/intinerary are not conducive to typical family vacations.

[hammybee]

Once and only once have I read this and it was on the Hal board. :)


Hey, that might have been my post, referring to my DD who with a friend, swiped a giant allegator made out of bread and made a leash and paraded him around the ship. Eventually, they got caught by an officer and were told to toss him overboard. Many days later, when packing to go home, I discovered him in our closet wrapped in plastic. :eek:

This was not however, on HAL.

[caviargal]

I have seen children in the specialty restaurants on Celebrity. A significant difference is, I think, Celebrity charges for the children, as they do adults, regardless of what the children actually eat. This may discourage many parents from bringing their children.



Interesting as we were married on X in late 2006 and were not permitted to have our wedding dinner in their specialty venue as children under 13 were not permitted. I was told there were no exceptions.

[Softball20]

I don't understand why so few believe that well mannered children actually do exist. They really do. That's not to say that I have never seen a child misbehave or one of my one hasn't ever misbehaved. Of course it happens, but I have at least taught my kids to respect the situation they are in -- whether it be dressing appropriately for an occasion or event, or, yes, behaving well in public. Trust me, I have a family member who has a terribly misbehaved child. She's 18 now and is no better now than when she was three. My own kids can't stand to be around the little darling and are amazed how her parents let her get away with murder.

I'm still in favor of allowing kids in the specialty restaurants.

[Jim Avery]

It amazes me that you can get a kid free dinner on Disney but not on HAL. Something wrong with that picture. We are booked in PG for our anniversary. If seated with kids, will ask for a refund and eat room service. Dont like special events with other peoples brats.

[NoNoNanette]

It amazes me that you can get a kid free dinner on Disney but not on HAL. Something wrong with that picture. We are booked in PG for our anniversary. If seated with kids, will ask for a refund and eat room service. Dont like special events with other peoples brats.

We'll be celebrating our 20th Wedding Anniversary while on the Noordam in December.

I was considering the PG, myself.... am starting to have second thoughts, though. :o Room service dinners in the raw can be alot of fun. ;)

[CocoKai]

Everyone goes up in arms when HAL is compared to a cranky old person floating assisted living ship. I don't know......read this thread and there may be some truth to that "rumor."

[Softball20]

Amazing.

My husband and I celebrated our 20th anniversary at a truly amazing restaurant about two hours outside of Washington, DC. It is an unbelievable place that is well known around here; very romantic, expensive and has food to die for. In the restaurant at the same time was a family, also there to have a special dinner. They had a couple kids with them. It in no way even remotely detracted from my dining experience or my evening with my husband. Frankly, I was more offended that the whole family (including the parents and other adults) were quite inappropriately dressed for the place (eg: jeans).

[caviargal]

We'll be celebrating our 20th Wedding Anniversary while on the Noordam in December.

I was considering the PG, myself.... am starting to have second thoughts, though. :o Room service dinners in the raw can be alot of fun. ;)

Don't change your plans. We have had dinner at the PG about a dozen times in the last three cruises. We dine late and have never seen children.

Enjoy!

[Sprocket]

On the Zuiderdam we were a table of 4 adults. Directly behind us was a large extended family, the youngest of whom I'm guessing was 18-24 months. IMHO a totally inappropriate venue for a child this age. She let her displeasure at being kept in a highchair known to all of us seated nearby. I believe it was the GF's birthday, and the poor child was kept there until his birthday cake was served.

Did it spoil our experience? You bet. I now have 2 rules for PG, no dining in the passageway and nowhere near very young children. YMMV

[NoNoNanette]

Don't change your plans. We have had dinner at the PG about a dozen times in the last three cruises. We dine late and have never seen children.

Enjoy!

Thank you for the kind wishes. :)

[hammybee]

Amazing.

My husband and I celebrated our 20th anniversary at a truly amazing restaurant about two hours outside of Washington, DC. It is an unbelievable place that is well known around here; very romantic, expensive and has food to die for. In the restaurant at the same time was a family, also there to have a special dinner. They had a couple kids with them. It in no way even remotely detracted from my dining experience or my evening with my husband. Frankly, I was more offended that the whole family (including the parents and other adults) were quite inappropriately dressed for the place (eg: jeans).

I don't know of any land based restuarants that preclude children and I am hard -pressed to think of one that would deny someone, showing up in jeans.

[kryos]

NO, NO, PLEASE NO CHILDREN IN THE PG!!!!!!!!!!:( ARE YOU LISTENING, HAL?? NO KIDS AT DINNER IN THE PG!! We adults must protect our few (getting fewer by the day) places where we can enjoy adults-only ambiance.

<ok, I'm ducking now>
Just dine late and you won't have any problem. That's the same technique I use in the dining room. Families with younger children rarely dine late. The kids can't wait that long to eat, and then the parents wind up plying them with treats from the Lido to "hold them over," to the point that when dinnertime comes, the kids hardly eat a thing. Then to make matters worse, they are "wired" all not from all that sugar and keep the parents up half the night.

So, just schedule your PG dinners late'ish and I doubt you'll ever encounter a child.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Yes. The venue should have a behavior limit. There are many 30-year-olds (and 40-, 50-, 60- and 70-year olds) who don't know how to behave in a refined restaurant. On the other hand, there are a number of 8-, 10- and 12-year olds who do.

I don't believe in serving "chicken nuggets" to anyone in the PG, however. It has a menu and that's what the diners should be chosing from.
If anyone on this board thinks HAL is gonna prohibit children from dining in the Pinnacle with their parents, then they are living in a dream world.

We've covered this before on these boards ... children in the lounges, in the adult pools, playing adult-type games like team trivia, etc., etc. HAL is trying to draw the family market, so they are certainly not going to limit children from participating in any age appropriate activities, including dining in the Pinnacle.

However, that said, I think a certain atmosphere should be maintained in that venue, and if children are "acting up," I think the parents should be asked to remove them. I also don't think kids should be allowed to order off the dining room menu and avoid the $30 surcharge. As long as the Pinnacle does not have a children's menu, I think there should at least be a reduced charge for the kids, regardless of what they order ... say perhaps $15 instead of $30.

As I said before, the only way to "deal" with the children problem is to avoid them. As to the Pinnacle, that means dining later in the evening when the younger children will probably be in bed.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

A nice, civilized 15 year old is not a problem.
It's the screaming baby and the rambuctious toddler that is.

Personally, I think charging $30 per person regardless of age is the way to go. While it won't prohibit children in the Pinnacle, it will at least discourage the parents from bringing them there.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[NoNoNanette]

Everyone goes up in arms when HAL is compared to a cranky old person floating assisted living ship. I don't know......read this thread and there may be some truth to that "rumor."

Well, I'm a cranky old broad who's pushing fifty. One of the reasons that I LOVE HAL is because of the lack of children.

We all have favorite lines for a reason.

*Some go for "traditional dining".
*Others choose "formal dress".
*Some want to be able to smoke in their cabin or on their balcony.
*I happen to enjoy being surrounded by adults.

No big deal. We're all different. The concept of "fun on vacation" can mean different things to different folks. :)

[kryos]

What about a nice, civilized 14 year old? 12? 10? Below which age can you guarantee they are not "civilized"?

Also, what about an uncivilized 40-something year old? I find many more of those on my cruises than uncivilized teens...
That's why you can't just blanket prohibit children, except possibly the very young, in the Pinnacle. It has to be behavior-driven ... but of course it won't be.

I wonder what would happen if an extended family were dining in there one night ... perhaps they got vouchers from their travel agent so it is not costing them anything. They've got mom and dad, the grandparents, brother and his wife, and maybe about six kids, two of which are toddlers, eating in there. The toddlers are getting "rammy" as toddlers will, and before you know it, mom has them out of their high chairs and running around the restaurant. Wonder if the Pinnacle staff would look the other way, or would ask that the children be removed?

Ditto for a couple of screaming babies. Wonder if the parents would be asked to remove them or if the Pinnacle staff would just turn their heads?

Don't forget ... this is a very real possibly now that travel agents are giving out vouchers for a "Pinnacle Grill Experience" to some of their clients. If you have a large family group traveling together, chances are they will get these vouchers as part of their group bennies. Naturally, if the dinner is free, they're gonna want to take advantage of it. If they know that the kiddies can order off the dining room menu, so there won't be any extra charge for them, of course they're gonna bring the kiddies ... and too bad if the other diners don't like it. After all, if the family group is traveling together, just what are they supposed to do with the kids while they eat in the Pinnacle, especially if some of them are too young for the kids club? Of course, they're going to bring them along.

I just wonder how the Pinnacle staff will handle this sort of thing if the children are bothering other diners?

Blue skies ...

--rita


Blue skies ...

--rita

[NoNoNanette]

I just wonder how the Pinnacle staff will handle this sort of thing if the children are bothering other diners?

My vote is:

WITH A BLIND EYE :rolleyes:

[wrp96]

I am not aware of any land based restaurants that prohibit children. There must be a few, somewhere.

Anyone?


To answer your question, Victoria & Albert's at Disney World's Grand Floridian Resort does not allow children under the age of 10. http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/dining/diningDetail?id=VictoriaandAlbertsDiningPage&bhcp=1

[Sprocket]

My vote is:

WITH A BLIND EYE :rolleyes:


And that is exactly how it was handled when it happened to us:(

[kryos]

Which is the reason some of us object to children in a fine dining setting. DH & I have had too many dinners ruined by someone's little darling being out of control, screaming and crying or running around, and the parents sitting there totally oblivious or uncaring. I will no longer accept a table in a fine dining establishment that seats me by or near children. If the children are well-behaved, and I'm not sitting by them, I miss nothing. If they are NOT well-behaved, they can "contribute" to someone else's evening.

I know exactly what you mean. I hate even going to land restaurants ... and we're not necessarily talking "fine dining" establishments, but rather nice family-type restaurants like Outback or Olive Garden, and being seated near a table full of children. Frequently the younger children will act up, and often the parents will make very little effort to quiet them.

I watched a family of about ten people in the Olive Garden about a month ago. There was a baby sleeping in a portable rocking crib-type thing ... who was quiet for most of the dinner. Then there was the "holy terror" ... a toddler who was throwing crayons and yelling and whatnot. He obviously wanted no part of sitting there and mom was not taking him out of his high chair. When he would scream, the family would make a cursory effort to calm him, but when it didn't work, their attention was quickly diverted elsewhere while the kid continued to scream.

I have a friend who has raised five kids and she tells me that the WORST thing you can do is pay attention when the kids act up. She said that kids, especially the very young, are smart. If they realize that screaming will get them removed from a situation they consider uncomfortable, they will scream even more because they have learned that screaming is what works. She said you try to take them only to places they can handle, and while she wouldn't hesitate to include an Olive Garden in that list, she certainly wouldn't take her kids to a truly elegant place like perhaps Ruth Chris. Then if the kids wanted to scream and refuse to stop while sitting at a table at the Olive Garden or Outback, you just ignore them. Once they realize that screaming is unlikely to get them any relief, they will learn that quietly crying will have a far better chance of being taken out of the dining room and for a walk outside. But she told me that you don't teach children to behave by catering to their every cry. If they are crying, she said, you make sure there is nothing legitimately wrong, and then you try to shush them. If that doesn't work, ignoring them usually does. She said that if her kids misbehaved in restaurants when they were growing up, she also would not get them dessert. She said that, combined with ignoring them if they insisted on "acting out" generally taught them appropriate behavior for restaurants. They may cry for half an hour before quieting down, but that's the price to be paid to teach the kids that crying and acting up is not going to get them anywhere.

Of course, I guess that while mom is teaching the kid, the other diners have to suffer through his tantrum? :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

I know exactly what you mean. I hate even going to land restaurants ... and we're not necessarily talking "fine dining" establishments, but rather nice family-type restaurants like Outback or Olive Garden, and being seated near a table full of children. Frequently the younger children will act up, and often the parents will make very little effort to quiet them.

I watched a family of about ten people in the Olive Garden about a month ago. There was a baby sleeping in a portable rocking crib-type thing ... who was quiet for most of the dinner. Then there was the "holy terror" ... a toddler who was throwing crayons and yelling and whatnot. He obviously wanted no part of sitting there and mom was not taking him out of his high chair. When he would scream, the family would make a cursory effort to calm him, but when it didn't work, their attention was quickly diverted elsewhere while the kid continued to scream.

I have a friend who has raised five kids and she tells me that the WORST thing you can do is pay attention when the kids act up. She said you try to take them only to places they can handle, and she wouldn't hesitate to include an Olive Garden in that list, and then if they want to scream and refuse to stop, you just ignore them. Once they realize that screaming is unlikely to get them any relief, they will learn that quietly crying will have a far better chance of being taken out of the dining room and for a walk outside. But she told me that you don't teach children to behave by catering to their every cry. If they are crying, she said, you make sure there is nothing legitimately wrong, and then you try to shush them. If that doesn't work, ignoring them usually does. Of course, they may cry for half an hour before quieting down, but that's the price to be paid to teach the kids that crying and acting up is not going to get them anywhere.

Of course, I guess that while mom is teaching the kid, the other diners have to suffer through his tantrum? :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

ignoring a screaming child is NOT the answer...

what would've happened to me if I'd done that? And mom will tell you it did..

I was spanked and taken out and 'to go' containers ordered.

[kryos]

I don't know of any land based restuarants that preclude children and I am hard -pressed to think of one that would deny someone, showing up in jeans.
Same here, though I am sure there are some restaurants that do have a dress code ... I just don't tend to visit those places.

And, true, I know of no land-based restaurant that would prohibit children, though I do know of some that will charge a "plate charge" for young children sharing from their parents' plates.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[newmexicoNita]

These "rules" must be guidelines for the staff only. I had my kids at Royal Caribbean's specialty resturant one was 9 at the time. The staff were really tickled at my kids comparing the taste of the food served there to the main dining room. I assure you, they could taste the difference. They also sent their left over food up later for the kids to have as their "midnight" snack.
I would have to say you are lucky; RCI/Celebrity normally enforce the 13 year old rule.

Nita

[wrp96]

And, true, I know of no land-based restaurant that would prohibit children, though I do know of some that will charge a "plate charge" for young children sharing from their parents' plates.


Read my post above. Victoria & Albert's at the Grand Floridian at Disney World does not allow children under the age of 10.

[kryos]

Read my post above. Victoria & Albert's at the Grand Floridian at Disney World does not allow children under the age of 10.
Okay, but that's in a resort that offers lots of options for parents with children. I'm talking about land-based restaurants.

The specialty restaurant on Disney's ships, Palo ... I believe it's called? ... also prohibits children. But again, you can consider a ship that pretty much caters to children as offering lots of other options for parents who want to dine with their children at night.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[NoNoNanette]

There are several wonderful restaurants in New Orleans (Which I consider the ultimate dining destination in the States), who will make it quite difficult to seat a family with toddlers.

Tables suddenly become "reserved", etc.

And for that, they have a loyal customer base. :)

[hammybee]

To answer your question, Victoria & Albert's at Disney World's Grand Floridian Resort does not allow children under the age of 10. http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/dining/diningDetail?id=VictoriaandAlbertsDiningPage&bhcp=1

I am picking up on a theme, here. Disney Cruises and Disney Vacations, probably the most child centric venue of all, imposes some limitations on children.

[kryos]

I am picking up on a theme, here. Disney Cruises and Disney Vacations, probably the most child centric venue of all, imposes some limitations on children.
That's because they offer so much for children that they can "get away" with offering at least one venue where children are not welcome.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[newmexicoNita]

This subject has been debated for as long as I have been on these boards: there seems to be no right answer. My feelings, which really don't matter:

I would like to see an age limit in the specialty dining rooms. I have rarely seen children under about 10 or so in any, but that being said; if there is not a policy then it is up to the parents. Of course as has been said, many parents think they kids are just a little better behaved than they really are: what I think is the the cutest thing when my grandkids do it, might be what everyone else thinks is totally unacceptable. When I hear parents talking about just bring activities to keep the kids busy through dinner I wonder why would you even think of bringing them to an upscale dining room and as for bringing them and then having them eat Chicken fingers? What is that all about?

On the other hand there are many kids who are accustom to eating at top restaurants, enjoy steak, seafood and prime rib. These kids should not bother anyone. Again, too bad, many parents don't know that some kids belong elsewhere and are not even happy being expected to sit for 90 minutes to 2 hours eating.

Nita

[Jim Avery]

We'll be celebrating our 20th Wedding Anniversary while on the Noordam in December.

I was considering the PG, myself.... am starting to have second thoughts, though. :o Room service dinners in the raw can be alot of fun. ;)
Good Girl!

[babyher]

We'll be celebrating our 20th Wedding Anniversary while on the Noordam in December.

I was considering the PG, myself.... am starting to have second thoughts, though. :o Room service dinners in the raw can be alot of fun. ;)

You're my kind of girl Nan :)

It funny all the talk about dress codes and what people are wearing and how it affects a good time.

Some of the best memories I have onboard a cruise ship didn't involve dress of any kind *LOL*

[JerseyJaguar]

There are several wonderful restaurants in New Orleans (Which I consider the ultimate dining destination in the States), who will make it quite difficult to seat a family with toddlers.

Tables suddenly become "reserved", etc.

And for that, they have a loyal customer base. :)
Ah, another reason I have to get to New Orleans.

There are always parents who think their children are better behaved than other children their age, and these parents are usually the ones who think it's ok to have their kid join them in the adults only pool or go with them to movies over the head of every other child that age, etc. If these parents can't follow the actual rules, they sure aren't going to think twice about bringing their superior child anywhere else that is mostly adults.

[iceman93]

That's because they offer so much for children that they can "get away" with offering at least one venue where children are not welcome.

It's also because some people think a Disney experience is only about kids. They couldn't be more wrong, but there are LOTS of people out there who won't consider a Disney cruise or a Disney World vacation because they think the whole experience will be like Chuck E Cheese's. By segregating some areas (on the cruise line they actually do enforce kid-free zones such as a pool and Palo) and publicizing it, they are trying to reach out to that demographic.

HAL is often seen, rightly or wrongly, as a cruise line for old codgers. It's true that HAL does have a large portion of the codger market locked up (just look at the crotchety attitudes of many of the people who've posted to this thread). But if they ever want to appeal to a broader customer base they have to actively shed that image. Imposing kid-free zones would be counterproductive from that standpoint.

Perhaps the old grumps on this thread who think children simply can't behave in nice restaurants should instead cruise Windstar or Cunard or some other line that truly does NOT cater to families at all. You're going to see more and more kids on HAL ships, like it or not.

Me? I'd prefer to see those old coots go to some other line and leave HAL to the open-minded, well-traveled, upscale crowd that realizes all ages have the right to enjoy the finer things in life.

[hammybee]

Perhaps the old grumps on this thread who think children simply can't behave in nice restaurants should instead cruise Windstar or Cunard or some other line that truly does NOT cater to families at all.


I think you have to take Cunard off this list. They have one of the best children's programs at sea and will accommodate infants too.

[JerseyJaguar]

Perhaps the old grumps on this thread who think children simply can't behave in nice restaurants should instead cruise Windstar or Cunard or some other line that truly does NOT cater to families at all. You're going to see more and more kids on HAL ships, like it or not.
So anyone who doesn't want to have a dinner they've paid extra for ruined by unruly children is an "old grump"? You think it's wrong for us to explain our experiences with obnoxious children and not want to add to them but it's ok for you to generalize about us?

And I spoke from experience, I've visited the disney message boards and have yet to read of any of the posters having a child who misbehaves, and I have been to disney many times, and have seen too many out of control children for all those message board folks to be telling the truth (it's much like the fact there are no lounge chair hogs in all of CC). I don't blame the kids for being out of control, I blame their parents for thinking they can handle situations that they can't. Does that mean I want them banned, no. It means I don't take parents saying their kids are the exception at face value.

[RuthC]

Wait just one cotton-pickin' minute here. Calling people
<old codgers> <the codger market> <the crotchety attitudes> <the old grumps> <those old coots>
doesn't sound very
open-minded,
to me! :(
I read some posts that articulated very well why they wanted a respite from children. And they have a right to express those feelings without being called names.

[dakrewser]

Amazing.

My husband and I celebrated our 20th anniversary at a truly amazing restaurant about two hours outside of Washington, DC. It is an unbelievable place that is well known around here; very romantic, expensive and has food to die for. In the restaurant at the same time was a family, also there to have a special dinner. They had a couple kids with them. It in no way even remotely detracted from my dining experience or my evening with my husband. Frankly, I was more offended that the whole family (including the parents and other adults) were quite inappropriately dressed for the place (eg: jeans).
Please tell me that this wasn't the Inn at Little Washington!

[kryos]

ignoring a screaming child is NOT the answer...

what would've happened to me if I'd done that? And mom will tell you it did..

I was spanked and taken out and 'to go' containers ordered.
Oh, same here ... believe me ... same here. If I "acted out" dad would wallop me right there in the restaurant, give me something to really cry about, and then tell me if I didn't shut up, I'd get walloped again. Believe me, I learned real quick what was acceptable behavior and what was not in public.

But, of course, that was in the day when parents were free to discipline their kids. Today, I'm afraid if a parent swatted a kid on the behind (as my father did), someone in the restaurant would probably call the cops and yell "child abuse." It's tough for parents today, so I can sometimes sympathize.

But I still agree with you. The screaming child has to be removed. It's not fair to other diners to let them remain, and least not in any restaurant above a fast food one like MacDonald's.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

The screaming child has to be removed. It's not fair to other diners to let them remain, and least not in any restaurant above a fast food one like MacDonald's.

Blue skies ...

--rita

uggg! A few weeks ago I was in mcdonald's... and there was a screaming child.. would NOT shut-up..

I had a headache by the time they left... the mom did NOTHING just ignored the child and got her stuff...

[tchix]

You want a parent who will admit their kid is not 100% an angel- sure, I have a 2 year old and boy can he have a melt down- he is a kid after all. That said, we still bring him with us to restaurants (real, nice restaurants- in addition to your standard chains like the Olive Garden). We take him to theater shows. And we sometimes take him in first class with us on the airplane, and he even flew in business class to Thailand with us when he was a baby. Usually he is well behaved- in fact every time we fly with him we get compliments on how quiet he was, people had no idea we had a child sitting right behind them, etc... But does he act up ever? Of course. And we do the very best we can to calm him down or, if absolutely necessary, to remove him from the situation. Sometimes it takes a few minutes to redirect/calm him, but we are certainly trying our damnedest to do it. Sometimes we miss out on things because we need to be parents (like when we leave before the last half of a show if he is tired and on the verge of a meltdown). But that isour choice to make- not yours to make for us.

So we try to keep him and his brother (6 months) from bothering you. For example, we had someone babysit our two year old when we went to the PG (but brought the 6 month old, who was sleeping or playing with a spoon the entire time). But honestly? We like our kids and we go on vacation to be with them, not get rid of them. I am not going to banish my kids to a "kids only" world because some people don't want kids in their restaurants, or their shows, or on their cruise. i don't give a d*mn whether or not YOU think a 2 year old should be at a broadway show, or if YOU think that 6 month old should be at the pinnacle grill. There are a whole bunch of things that I would prefer if I were making the rules, but I'm not, and neither are you! If you really want those things, find a cruiseline or vacation tht agrees with your values and make the move.

I know that sounds rude, but I just hate it that this forum seems to draw out all the kid-haters, and those who say "Oh I don't hate kids, I just dont want them around me," who then go on to give "advice" like "leave your kids with grandma" or "dont bring a child to the PG, put them in club HAL" to parents who haven't asked for that advice at all. It's misleading and for new cruisers it makes HAL (and it's clientele) seem incredibly un-kid friendly, which (for anyone who has sailed on HAL), is not actually the case.

I am going to do what I think is best for my family, and for us that means exposing kids to all kinds of situations when they are young and teaching them how to behave there. In my opinion, the reason you get kids who are all over hte plae and bouncing off the walls at age 6 and 7 is because they have always been catered to with kids menus and kids spaces and have never been expected to participate in something bigger than that.

And let me tell you, I hate undisciplined kids as much as the rest of you. I hate when they sit behind me and kick my seat, and when they scream the entire dinner. But there are billions of people in this big wide world, with some adults as bad or worse than even the worst kids, but we all live in this world and have to learn to deal with it. If you can't stand the presence of children in certain venues where they are allowed, choose different venues and make your views known with your dollars, but don't try to bully parents into making choices for their children the way you want them to.

[Softball20]

Tchix:

Well said!!!!!!

[pipedreams62]

This is the last place for "Adults only" The childrenhttp://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunstuff/IMG7304.JPGn have moved into Pinnacle grill,lounges and bars.

[JerseyJaguar]

I know that sounds rude, but I just hate it that this forum seems to draw out all the kid-haters, and those who say "Oh I don't hate kids, I just dont want them around me," who then go on to give "advice" like "leave your kids with grandma" or "dont bring a child to the PG, put them in club HAL" to parents who haven't asked for that advice at all. It's misleading and for new cruisers it makes HAL (and it's clientele) seem incredibly un-kid friendly, which (for anyone who has sailed on HAL), is not actually the case.

You're right, it does sound rude. Calling someone a "kid-hater" because they want a nice adult meal is very rude. You have no idea what their situation is, whether they have kids or not, you only know that they'd like an extra priced meal to be a nice, quiet adult experience.

[tchix]

You have no idea what their situation is, .

True, nor do you know the same for the parents and/or children you cruise with and who post here asking questions.

I will continue to make the "assumption" that those who say they dont want kids around are (as I said) in fact "kid-haters" OR people who say they dont hate kids but dont want them around... It's a much more fair one than the one that all kids are disasters who will, by their mere presence, ruin your meal.

[JerseyJaguar]

True, nor do you know the same for the parents and/or children you cruise with and who post here asking questions.

I will continue to make the "assumption" that those who say they dont want kids around are (as I said) in fact "kid-haters" OR people who say they dont hate kids but dont want them around... It's a much more fair one than the one that all kids are disasters who will, by their mere presence, ruin your meal.
I see, your opinion of posters as "kid-haters" is OK, but people stating parents exaggerate about how well behaved their children are and who have experienced out of control children in nice restaurants and don't want repeat experiences are making unfair statements.
:rolleyes:

[tchix]

Um, I'm really sorry because I don't want this to turn into a back and forth, but I think you are missing the point of my post and misreading and twisting what I am saying.

I said I am upset by some of the posts by people who are "kid haters" OR people who say they don't hate kids BUT don't want them around. And no, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that people who say things like "If I saw kids in the PG I would leave" or "I don't want any kids in the restaurant during my special dinner" or "I hope there are no kids on my cruise" are people who don't want kids around.

But I have no problem with people posting that parents overexaggerate their child's stellar behavior - I am sure they do. And I don't really have an issue with people who say that they want a kid-free meal- that's your choice.

But what I do have a problem with is when people/posters try to enforce THEIR desire for a kid-free meal (or show or restaurant or cruise) by telling other people on the boards that they should not bring their kids (whom they know nothing about) to the PG, or to the shows, or on the cruise at all! All I'm saying is that if you want a kid-free atmosphere, choose a cruise (or vacation or eatery or theater) that doesn't allow kids -- don't try to make parents whom you don't know feel guilty by telling them it is improper for them to make their own choice whether to bring their children (whom you also don't know) places where children are allowed, just because you would prefer they not be there!

[babyher]

Look there are out of control brats in the world, and their obnoxious parents who just let them get away with it.

There are also miserable old coots who complain about everything.

They are not the standard for either group, but sadly their are enough of them that we have to come in contact with them far more than we would like to.

Take people as they come, Don't assume the child seated near you will act up until they do, don't assume the parents won't do anything until they don't , and then deal with it.

Don't assume the older folks will be a bunch of crabs until they are , and then again deal with it accordingly.

So you had a bad experience last week in Pinnacle or at Applebees or where ever , That means you are going to have one tonight or next week? Please.

Some people go into situations with their dukes up looking for an arguement. "Oh my God , theres a 5 year old in the same area code as our table , get the waiter , get the Maitre "D , I want another table "

Don't make an issue , until there is an issue

[CowPrincess]

I do have a problem with is when people/posters try to enforce THEIR desire for a kid-free meal

Yet you have no problem with insisting that you have the right to take your children anywhere children are "permitted", regardless of how inappropriate the venue may be FOR your children:

i don't give a d*mn whether or not YOU think a 2 year old should be at a broadway show, or if YOU think that 6 month old should be at the pinnacle grill.

don't try to bully parents into making choices for their children the way you want them to.


I don't see anyone in this thread bullying anyone else. I see varied opinions, not all of which are consistent with yours.

Because someone doesn't want to have a fine dining experience interrupted by misbehaving children does NOT mean they are "kid haters". My issue is with the parents who allow the unruly, disruptive, brattish behaviour to impinge on everyone else's enjoyment. And as I can never tell who those parents are until the tantrum/screaming/shrieking/crying STARTS, it makes for a much more pleasant evening or event for me to avoid the groups that include children.

Again, I did not develop this opinion in a vacuum -- I've had out of control children and adjourned parents inflicted on me far too often.

You do what you want, I'll do what I want. I'm not a kid hater, and I think my approach is the one that works best for me and the groups with kids and significantly reduces any chance of unpleasantness.

[world~citizen]

True, nor do you know the same for the parents and/or children you cruise with and who post here asking questions.

I will continue to make the "assumption" that those who say they dont want kids around are (as I said) in fact "kid-haters" OR people who say they dont hate kids but dont want them around... It's a much more fair one than the one that all kids are disasters who will, by their mere presence, ruin your meal.

You are entitled to "assume" what you wish, but that doesn't make it so.:)

Smooth sailing to you.

[Roz]

Yes, I've encountered rude adults in movie theatres, restaurants, stores, etc.

However, I've yet to see an adult lie down and scream in a shrill voice at the top of their lungs for what seems like eternity, while pounding their hands and feet on the floor and turning beet red. This past week I witnessed these antics on an airplane, in a restaurant, in a store, and in a church. The parent(s) seemed oblivious.

Roz

[pipedreams62]

I've constantly been reading these boards and when it comes to AYWD wearing shorts in the dining room and not wearing a tux. The cry is

"This Is What People want",The cruise line is only doing what the masses want"


Well the Celebrity Is building a brand new ship Solstice,and are having a special area for adults only with a lap pool, steam room etc.

Princess also has an adult pool, jacuzzi "Adult" hang out area.


I guess this is what people want or the ship designers would never have built the boat this way. They could have easily put more stores,or slot machines in this space and made more money.

The truth is there are a certain amount of people (and no they're not people who should lose their membership to the human race).

They just want a relaxing cruise without kids every square inch of the ship.

why is it so hard to understand?

[tchix]

Yet you have no problem with insisting that you have the right to take your children anywhere children are "permitted", regardless of how inappropriate the venue may be FOR your children:






You prove my point- yes, I DO have the right to take my children anywhere they are permitted- and no one else on this board, or the ship knows me or my children and has the right to determine whether the venue is appropriate or not for them. All I am suggesting is that each person and family determine what is right with them- if you do not find it appropriate for YOU to be at a meal with children, pick another cruiseline or restaurant. If I think the venue is inappropriate, I will not bring my children, but that's going to be based on my children and their behavior, not what someone else thinks or wants.

[JerseyJaguar]

I said I am upset by some of the posts by people who are "kid haters" OR people who say they don't hate kids BUT don't want them around. And no, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that people who say things like "If I saw kids in the PG I would leave" or "I don't want any kids in the restaurant during my special dinner" or "I hope there are no kids on my cruise" are people who don't want kids around.

The way I interpret this is that you think folks only say they don't hate kids, but....

Meanwhile, you're the one throwing "kid haters" and "hate kids" around. I find these extremely distasteful phrases that aren't deserved simply because folks want their special times to be free of strange children's tantrums.

[CowPrincess]

tchix,

I respect your right to your opinion. I would appreciate the same consideration from you.

Again, I will state: You do what you want, I'll do what I want. Seldom (if ever) does a discussion on a chat board changes anyone's mind about their personal opinion. And that's all either your or I have -- an opinion.


Roz said:

However, I've yet to see an adult lie down and scream in a shrill voice at the top of their lungs for what seems like eternity, while pounding their hands and feet on the floor and turning beet red. This past week I witnessed these antics on an airplane, in a restaurant, in a store, and in a church. The parent(s) seemed oblivious.


Except for the airplane, you could have been with me all week :)

[RuthC]

But I still agree with you. The screaming child has to be removed. It's not fair to other diners to let them remain, and least not in any restaurant above a fast food one like MacDonald's.
No, not there, either. It's not the type of restaurant that matters---it's the behavior.
It's the parents' responsibility to deal with it promptly, no matter where it happens.

[lkmamom]

Ruth, you are absolutely right. Our family just went on a short cruise on the QM2. It was made very clear prior to the cruise that the theme was "elegant". We shared dinner with a young but professional couple that we loved talking with but they had a very active two year old. To be honest, I think they just ignored him because that was the way they always do it. I was actually embarassed for them. The poor waiters had to dodge him as he threw clothes and crayons and everything else. We gently suggested that he might be more happy and comfortable if they fed him first in the Lido or maybe even used the child care on the ship.

I admit it, I am one of those that gets offended when some group "kids" in general, as bad to be around. Some kids are really well mannered and should be respected for that. When situations occur , as above, it is the parents that need to either take the child out of the situation, and/or(preferably later), teach them the right behavior. To be honest, most two year olds could care less if they offend others. It is just the nature of being that age group. We personally love little ones but it was unfair to that kiddo and the other adults around him to put him in that situation.
Linda

[caviargal]

It's the parents' responsibility to deal with it promptly, no matter where it happens.

And therein lies the problem. Some parents are either oblivious or uncaring. We stack the deck as best we can by choosing later dining times and making it clear to the manager of the PG or any restaurant we go to that we are not willing to be seated near families. We have friends and family who we will not go out to dinner with because their children are allowed to be loud and run wild in restaurants. The parents find it cute - in the first case - or are too interested in their own enjoyment of their meal (second case) to be concerned with other diners. We go to dinner with them when they can get a sitter.

It is not my concern if some parents find this offensive. We are paying for a nice dining experience and on some lines we cruise we only dine in the extra charge restaurants specifically to avoid children. This is one big reason we tend to chose adult only AIs for vacation...we are guaranteed to be in adult company.

[cccole]

Maybe they could have a standard of behavior rather than an age limit. Then both children and adults could be asked to leave if their behavior was inappropriate for the environment. It seems that there are posters who have been around horrendous adults and posters who have been around horrendous children. No one should have to endure the extremely intrusive behavior in either age group. Neither age group should be permitted to remain in an area where their behavior is unacceptable. Adults do not have to be laying on the floor in a full-out temper tantrum to be unpleasant to the diners around them. Cherie

[kryos]

uggg! A few weeks ago I was in mcdonald's... and there was a screaming child.. would NOT shut-up..

I had a headache by the time they left... the mom did NOTHING just ignored the child and got her stuff...
I hate to say this, but it was, after all, a MacDonald's. I don't know if I would worry about a screaming child in a place like that either. I don't consider MacDonald's to be a true restaurant, and the sort of behavior I would consider "acceptable" there is different than what I would consider it to be in a non-fast food restaurant ... such as Olive Garden, Red Lobster or Outback.

MacDonald's isn't a problem because I, too, can grab my food and go. I don't have to eat it there. So I am not subject to that screaming child for any length of time. But in a regular restaurant I'm stuck listening to the wailing kid for a good hour or more if mom or dad doesn't shut her up. :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RuthC]

I hate to say this, but it was, after all, a MacDonald's. I don't know if I would worry about a screaming child in a place like that either.
But when you focus on the nature of the restaurant, rather than the behavior of the child, you are focusing on the wrong thing. It's the standard of how you behave in civilized society that needs to be consistent---not the standard of dining facility.
Children don't need mixed messages.

Children learn how to behave by having consistent rules to follow. Knowing that they have to use "inside voices", stay at their table, not throw things, is the same "rule" to live by no matter what restaurant they are in. They can understand that.

What they can't understand is why one restaurant has different "rules of behavior" than another. They don't know the difference in the quality of the food! Or the price!
They know they are out to eat, so "out to eat" rules apply.

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

I hate to say this, but it was, after all, a MacDonald's. I don't know if I would worry about a screaming child in a place like that either. I don't consider MacDonald's to be a true restaurant, and the sort of behavior I would consider "acceptable" there is different than what I would consider it to be in a non-fast food restaurant ... such as Olive Garden, Red Lobster or Outback.

MacDonald's isn't a problem because I, too, can grab my food and go. I don't have to eat it there. So I am not subject to that screaming child for any length of time. But in a regular restaurant I'm stuck listening to the wailing kid for a good hour or more if mom or dad doesn't shut her up. :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

My parents would not have let me get away w/ it in McDonald's either..

the point is, ANY child who screams and throws a fit, is acting like a spoiled brat used to getting their own way... they HAVE to learn the word 'NO' and that they can't do that.. other wise they will end up in jail somewhere down the road, or at least in trouble w/ the law cause they have NO RESPECT for authority.

[world~citizen]

My parents would not have let me get away w/ it in McDonald's either..

the point is, ANY child who screams and throws a fit, is acting like a spoiled brat used to getting their own way... they HAVE to learn the word 'NO' and that they can't do that.. other wise they will end up in jail somewhere down the road, or at least in trouble w/ the law cause they have NO RESPECT for authority.

Yes, but I think more to the point, is the PG the proper venue for "on the job training"?

[tchix]

I don't see anyone in this thread bullying anyone else. I see varied opinions, not all of which are consistent with yours.

.. My issue is with the parents who allow the unruly, disruptive, brattish behaviour to impinge on everyone else's enjoyment. And as I can never tell who those parents are until the tantrum/screaming/shrieking/crying STARTS, it makes for a much more pleasant evening or event for me to avoid the groups that include children.

Again, I did not develop this opinion in a vacuum -- I've had out of control children and adjourned parents inflicted on me far too often.

.

Cow Princess- I do respect your opinion, sorry if that did not appear to be the case. In fact, I think you and I are more on the same page than you think, really. You said that because you prefer to avoid children with meltdowns (and you don't know who that will be) YOU avoid groups including children. I totally respect that, and even encourage it- as I said in my original post, I think people who say they don't want to be around children on vacation or don't want to eat with them, should pick venues and vacations that do not allow children.

However, that is not HAL. Nor is it the Pinnacle Grill, the trivia games, the late seating at the dining room, etc. But based on the responses here (to a poster who just wanted to know what the costs were for children at the PG, not whether or not others thought taking kids to the PG was ok), and other threads , several posters who share your view do not share your sense of responsibility for themselves. Instead of choosing vacations and venues without kids or to remove themselves from the situation, these posters tell others that children should not be brought to the PG, participate in trivia and other activities, etc.

It's up to HAL, not you, to determine what venues are "appropriate" for kids.

If you read many of these types of threads, you will see that there are several posts from first-time or prospective cruisers and other parents who are really upset because they think everyone who sails on HAL thinks children are not welcome there. That's what I mean by bullying, and I have no apologies about putting out the view that that is not really the case.

[world~citizen]

Cow Princess- I do respect your opinion, sorry if that did not appear to be the case. In fact, I think you and I are more on the same page than you think, really. You said that because you prefer to avoid children with meltdowns (and you don't know who that will be) YOU avoid groups including children. I totally respect that, and even encourage it- as I said in my original post, I think people who say they don't want to be around children on vacation or don't want to eat with them, should pick venues and vacations that do not allow children.

However, that is not HAL. Nor is it the Pinnacle Grill, the trivia games, the late seating at the dining room, etc. But based on the responses here (to a poster who just wanted to know what the costs were for children at the PG, not whether or not others thought taking kids to the PG was ok), and other threads , several posters who share your view do not share your sense of responsibility for themselves. Instead of choosing vacations and venues without kids or to remove themselves from the situation, these posters tell others that children should not be brought to the PG, participate in trivia and other activities, etc.

It's up to HAL, not you, to determine what venues are "appropriate" for kids.

If you read many of these types of threads, you will see that there are several posts from first-time or prospective cruisers and other parents who are really upset because they think everyone who sails on HAL thinks children are not welcome there. That's what I mean by bullying, and I have no apologies about putting out the view that that is not really the case.

Interesting (partial) tactical retreat.:D

I have seen people discuss their different views in this thread, but I really don't see any evidence of a bully or bullies in here. I note some posts seem more aggressive than others, but I don't see bullying.

Yes it is true that HAL sets PG policy. So what's new here? HAL sets all policy. Just about every policy that HAL sets is discussed and even debated on these boards. The cruise lines monitor these boards - and in my humble opinion, the cruise experience is the better for it.

No one is "telling" anyone that children should not be in the PG. They are discussing the issue broadly, and if I may say to the posters here, for the most part in a sincere and thoughtful way.

Compliments to all.

I don't agree with everyone of course, but I do appreciate and respect the various opinions.

Smooth sailing to you.

[CocoKai]

Every single person on here who is posting "for" or "against" children in the PG has laid on the floor, kicked and screamed, turned red and threw a fit. Were you all obnoxious brats?

No, you were a child and that is how a child expresses their frustration and emotions until they learn and gain maturity to be more contained....guided by a parent. Personally, I wouldn't take a child in this age group to the PG. As an adult, you never know when one of these explosive episodes can occur. Something might drop into their milk and all sense of rationality can be lost in a second. These children you see are not brats. They are children, being children and moving on the path to adulthood.

The easy solution.....everyone pays the $30 cover and orders off the PG menu.

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

Every single person on here who is posting "for" or "against" children in the PG has laid on the floor, kicked and screamed, turned red and threw a fit. Were you all obnoxious brats?

.


Yes, I was. Mom can tell you, I was one of those that took time to train... I was spoiled...

there is a difference between a child crying and one screaming loud enough to break glass and making a spectule of themselves...

one is normal..the one should be delt with...asap!

[iceman93]

Ten-thousand :thumbsup: to tchix. You have explained (very eloquently, I might add, even in the face of multiple attacks) exactly how I also feel about this issue. And I applaud you for not backing down or watering down your opinions (I don't know what that was about a "tactical retreat"??).

We can all agree to disagree, but I will no more sit silently by while a few people here rail against the behavior of children and their negelctful parents than they will apparently admit that there are well-behaved children in this world and that some of them may actually behave perfectly well in a nice environment like the Pinnacle Grill.

[michmike]

think it was lawyerrose?? a few pages back who opined that the only child she wanted at her table would be her hubby... my wife chortled in true appreciation of THAT sentiment..

she's had to deal with MY childish behavior when I finally have enough of some screaming disruptive kid in a restaurant and I holler halfway across the room "You folks pull your heads out of the sand (and what restraint it takes to use the word sand) and DEAL with that kid... or I'm going to come stand next to your table and scream all thru YOUR meal" Invariably it prompts action... to my wife's chagrin perhaps.. but action nonetheless

have also found that it works fairly well when confronted with a self important and overly loud cell phone user to just sit there and parrot "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW???????" every 45 seconds or so..Doesn't take long for the message to get conveyed..

I have absolutely no qualms when faced with irritating behavior to do my best to be even more irritating... (and at 6ft4 275 I don't often get much lip back).

So seize the day and let these folks know that you take exception.. you'll feel SO much better..

[RuthC]

...I holler halfway across the room "You folks pull your heads out of the sand (and what restraint it takes to use the word sand) and DEAL with that kid... or I'm going to come stand next to your table and scream all thru YOUR meal"

have also found that it works fairly well when confronted with a self important and overly loud cell phone user to just sit there and parrot "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW???????" every 45 seconds or so...
If I ask your wife if I can borrow you, do you think she will say "Yes"?
I promise to bring you back.

[michmike]

Ruth - I'll work for chocolate..(and /or bourbon) and there are times (seems they get more frequent the longer we are together, 35 yrs come August) when she would gladly ship me off for 7-10 days....

[world~citizen]

... i don't give a d*mn whether or not YOU think a 2 year old should be at a broadway show, or if YOU think that 6 month old should be at the pinnacle grill. There are a whole bunch of things that I would prefer if I were making the rules, but I'm not, and neither are you! If you really want those things, find a cruiseline or vacation tht agrees with your values and make the move...

I am going to do what I think is best for my family, and for us that means exposing kids to all kinds of situations when they are young and teaching them how to behave there. In my opinion, the reason you get kids who are all over hte plae and bouncing off the walls at age 6 and 7 is because they have always been catered to with kids menus and kids spaces and have never been expected to participate in something bigger than that.

If you can't stand the presence of children in certain venues where they are allowed, choose different venues and make your views known with your dollars, but don't try to bully parents into making choices for their children the way you want them to.

WOW!

Isn't this a bit self centred?

Just asking?

Smooth sailing to you.

[Jim Avery]

world-citizen:
Wow, do I agree with you!
Jim.

[bplazo]

think it was lawyerrose?? a few pages back who opined that the only child she wanted at her table would be her hubby... my wife chortled in true appreciation of THAT sentiment..

she's had to deal with MY childish behavior when I finally have enough of some screaming disruptive kid in a restaurant and I holler halfway across the room "You folks pull your heads out of the sand (and what restraint it takes to use the word sand) and DEAL with that kid... or I'm going to come stand next to your table and scream all thru YOUR meal" Invariably it prompts action... to my wife's chagrin perhaps.. but action nonetheless

have also found that it works fairly well when confronted with a self important and overly loud cell phone user to just sit there and parrot "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW???????" every 45 seconds or so..Doesn't take long for the message to get conveyed..

I have absolutely no qualms when faced with irritating behavior to do my best to be even more irritating... (and at 6ft4 275 I don't often get much lip back).

So seize the day and let these folks know that you take exception.. you'll feel SO much better..

Would love to see you in action!

[tchix]

WOW!

Isn't this a bit self centred?

Just asking?

Smooth sailing to you.

Is it? no more so than the posters who desire that EVERY child, regardless of behavior, be banned from any space where the poster doesn't want them.

[hammybee]

But when you focus on the nature of the restaurant, rather than the behavior of the child, you are focusing on the wrong thing. It's the standard of how you behave in civilized society that needs to be consistent---not the standard of dining facility.
Children don't need mixed messages.

Children learn how to behave by having consistent rules to follow. Knowing that they have to use "inside voices", stay at their table, not throw things, is the same "rule" to live by no matter what restaurant they are in. They can understand that.

What they can't understand is why one restaurant has different "rules of behavior" than another. They don't know the difference in the quality of the food! Or the price!
They know they are out to eat, so "out to eat" rules apply.

Pushing on to 150 posts. This one makes the most sense, to me.

There are not that many young children, anywhere, who can handle 2.5 hours of anything. I know my daughter would have probably fallen asleep, at the table, which is better than a tantrum, but nonetheless, not appropriate. And so, we would get a sitter and put her needs before our own. What a concept.

For those that have tested the waters elsewhere and know their kids can handle and enjoy a 2.5 hour dinner, there is no reason to not bring them along with a Plan B to exit, with apologies, if things don't work out, as planned

[world~citizen]

Is it? no more so than the posters who desire that EVERY child, regardless of behavior, be banned from any space where the poster doesn't want them.

Well, you asked, so I'll tell you. Yes, pretty much.

As you have said however, you don't give a "d*mn" what anyone else thinks, so there is no possibility of discussion with you.

Smooth sailing...

[cruisecrasy]

By that I mean - to every thing there is a season...

Of course some adults behave badly and some children don't etc. I'm sure some children would be better drivers at 14 than some 40 year old drivers I have seen. So do we let 14 year olds drive?

So if you say entry into enhanced dining venues depends on the maturity of the child to be considered on an individual basis, how to you implement the policy. Will HAL staff be required to observe the behaviour of said children before making the booking? Do they make an on the spot evaluation? Do they take the parents word for it that their childrens behaviour will be impeccable? If the behaviour of the children is deemed to be inappropriate half way through dinner will the offenders be required to leave?

How in the world would you implement an "it depends on the child" policy?

The situation of a 5 year old who likes foie gras has been brought up. There is more to it than a child's enjoyment of an exotic food. Look for a moment at the ambience of the PG and consider, for a moment, for whom and what it was designed for:

"This intimate reservations-only venue offers an elegant, sophisticated dining experience. Featuring premium Sterling Silver beef, inspired seafood dishes and many select wines rated "Excellent" by Wine Spectator - as well as distinctive Bvlgari® china, Riedel® stemware and Frette® linens"

Realistically now, is this the venue for a 5 year old? Somewhere in between the time that child discovers the cure for cancer, but before she solves the riddle of world peace, she may want to have an adult, romantic dining experience with her significant other, and I think she should have the opportunity to experience it on a cruise ship. :) I really do.

Yes, children are apprentice adults and they have to learn sometime what it is to dine in a premium dining venue. They also have to learn that not all the opportunities and experiences in this life will be available to you at all times. How we learn to wait is at least as important as how we learn to do.

As I say, to every thing there is a season. If the PG as a premium romantic dining venue can be open over lunch (and hot dogs), I say by all means, bring in the family.

Reserve the evening hours of this dining venue for those it was really designed for.

On a romantic evening, on an expensive cruise, in a sophisticated dining room - it is their season.

Smooth sailing always.

approx 5 nites out of every 7, I definately agree with u re: 'adults only' dining...

Perhaps HAL shld, like RCL, have 2 alternative dining rooms so they cld then have one open and 1 restricted to adults only.

Otherwise, a good suggestion that has already been put forth, try an 'adults only' at nite and open the specialty restaurant to all at lunch..

Of course, one way to partially solve the problem wld be to charge all who dine the same amt. - that wld discourage a lot of parents..

Plse consider this all parents, when u get older and look forward to dining on your cruise do u want children dining closeby!!! Yah right, of course u will - NOT..well thats how a lot of us older parents & singles feel now!!

Happy cruisin' all!

[cruisecrasy]

By that I mean - to every thing there is a season...

Of course some adults behave badly and some children don't etc. I'm sure some children would be better drivers at 14 than some 40 year old drivers I have seen. So do we let 14 year olds drive?

So if you say entry into enhanced dining venues depends on the maturity of the child to be considered on an individual basis, how to you implement the policy. Will HAL staff be required to observe the behaviour of said children before making the booking? Do they make an on the spot evaluation? Do they take the parents word for it that their childrens behaviour will be impeccable? If the behaviour of the children is deemed to be inappropriate half way through dinner will the offenders be required to leave?

How in the world would you implement an "it depends on the child" policy?

The situation of a 5 year old who likes foie gras has been brought up. There is more to it than a child's enjoyment of an exotic food. Look for a moment at the ambience of the PG and consider, for a moment, for whom and what it was designed for:

"This intimate reservations-only venue offers an elegant, sophisticated dining experience. Featuring premium Sterling Silver beef, inspired seafood dishes and many select wines rated "Excellent" by Wine Spectator - as well as distinctive Bvlgari® china, Riedel® stemware and Frette® linens"

Realistically now, is this the venue for a 5 year old? Somewhere in between the time that child discovers the cure for cancer, but before she solves the riddle of world peace, she may want to have an adult, romantic dining experience with her significant other, and I think she should have the opportunity to experience it on a cruise ship. :) I really do.

Yes, children are apprentice adults and they have to learn sometime what it is to dine in a premium dining venue. They also have to learn that not all the opportunities and experiences in this life will be available to you at all times. How we learn to wait is at least as important as how we learn to do.

As I say, to every thing there is a season. If the PG as a premium romantic dining venue can be open over lunch (and hot dogs), I say by all means, bring in the family.

Reserve the evening hours of this dining venue for those it was really designed for.

On a romantic evening, on an expensive cruise, in a sophisticated dining room - it is their season.

Smooth sailing always.

approx 5 nites out of every 7, I definately agree with u re: 'adults only' dining...

Perhaps HAL shld, like RCL, have 2 alternative dining rooms so they cld then have one open and 1 restricted to adults only.

Otherwise, a good suggestion that has already been put forth, try an 'adults only' at nite and open the specialty restaurant to all at lunch..

Of course, one way to partially solve the problem wld be to charge all who dine the same amt. - that wld discourage a lot of parents..

Plse consider this all parents, when u get older and look forward to dining on your cruise do u want children dining closeby? Yah right, of course u will - NOT..well thats how a lot of us older parents & singles feel now!!

Happy cruisin' all!

[cruisecrasy]

By that I mean - to every thing there is a season...

Of course some adults behave badly and some children don't etc. I'm sure some children would be better drivers at 14 than some 40 year old drivers I have seen. So do we let 14 year olds drive?

So if you say entry into enhanced dining venues depends on the maturity of the child to be considered on an individual basis, how to you implement the policy. Will HAL staff be required to observe the behaviour of said children before making the booking? Do they make an on the spot evaluation? Do they take the parents word for it that their childrens behaviour will be impeccable? If the behaviour of the children is deemed to be inappropriate half way through dinner will the offenders be required to leave?

How in the world would you implement an "it depends on the child" policy?

The situation of a 5 year old who likes foie gras has been brought up. There is more to it than a child's enjoyment of an exotic food. Look for a moment at the ambience of the PG and consider, for a moment, for whom and what it was designed for:

"This intimate reservations-only venue offers an elegant, sophisticated dining experience. Featuring premium Sterling Silver beef, inspired seafood dishes and many select wines rated "Excellent" by Wine Spectator - as well as distinctive Bvlgari® china, Riedel® stemware and Frette® linens"

Realistically now, is this the venue for a 5 year old? Somewhere in between the time that child discovers the cure for cancer, but before she solves the riddle of world peace, she may want to have an adult, romantic dining experience with her significant other, and I think she should have the opportunity to experience it on a cruise ship. :) I really do.

Yes, children are apprentice adults and they have to learn sometime what it is to dine in a premium dining venue. They also have to learn that not all the opportunities and experiences in this life will be available to you at all times. How we learn to wait is at least as important as how we learn to do.

As I say, to every thing there is a season. If the PG as a premium romantic dining venue can be open over lunch (and hot dogs), I say by all means, bring in the family.

Reserve the evening hours of this dining venue for those it was really designed for.

On a romantic evening, on an expensive cruise, in a sophisticated dining room - it is their season.

Smooth sailing always.

approx 5 nites out of every 7, I definately agree with u re: 'adults only' dining...

Perhaps HAL shld, like RCL, have 2 alternative dining rooms so they cld then have one open and 1 restricted to 'adults only'.

Otherwise, a good suggestion that has already been put forth, try an 'adults only' at nite and open the specialty restaurant to all at lunch..

Of course, one way to partially solve the problem wld be to charge all who dine the same amt. - that wld discourage a lot of parents..

Plse consider this all parents, when u get older and look forward to dining on your cruise do u want children dining closeby? Yah right, of course u will - NOT..well thats how a lot of us older parents & singles feel now!!

Happy cruisin' all!

[caviargal]

Perhaps HAL shld, like RCL, have 2 alternative dining rooms so they cld then have one open and 1 restricted to 'adults only'.


Happy cruisin' all!

RCI has two ala carte venues on some but not all of their ships. Yes they used to be adults but alas, no longer. Now you can bring kids in before 8pm so that formerly adult venue has been lost.

Still, when we cruise RCI, which is seldom because they are first and foremost a family cruise line and this is the opposite of what we enjoy, then we book the ala cartes every evening at 8:30 as soon as we board.

Perhaps HAL could open the PG to families early in the evening and then make it a true adult restaurant after 7:30. Seems like a workable compromise.

[CarolineInToronto]

... we did do the Pinnacle Grill one evening with friends and their 5 year old daughter.

She was quieter and better behaved than most any cruise passenger, and since she had eaten at the Lido earlier, they were hapy to bring her a small salad and fruit plate to keep her nibbling while we went through every course imagineable. Oh yes, and some ice cream at the end. No additional charges.

Her parents chose to tip extra as if for 3 people, which is what they were :)

HTH
Caroline in Toronto, still rocking in her chair

[getta]

I have been reading all of these posts but not contributed, until now. Whether or not you agree with having children in upscale restaurants or even cruising, they are there. They are hopefully well behaved, but sometimes not.

An earlier poster mentioned getting their backside smacked as a method of discipline. I'm sure I will incite riots with this comment - but smacking is not necessary. I was also disciplined with corporal punishment (sometimes too much) so I never lifted a hand to my children except in love. There are other ways to discipline. I've raised two children that are successful adults and were never hit by me. It can be done.

I think we should agree that sometimes children are great and sometimes they are a pain in the tush but that's life. That said, I would prefer not to vacation with a whole lot of little darlings unless I'm with my grandchildren some day. But I will smile and try to coax a smile out of your children, especially if they are well behaved.

[jerseygirl3]

Well, tonight is our first night at PG, so I'll let you all know how it goes (btw, I was the OP to this thread). Anyway, so far the kids are having a fabulous time. We did AYWD last night and the waiter commented on how well behaved the kids were (they love to read, and when they were done eating, they read while we adults lingered over coffee and dessert).

BTW, my sister and BIL missed their flight to FLL on Saturday and had to take a later flight and they couldn't all sit together. The kids had to sit by themselves (remember they are only 7 year old twins) and the flight attendant also mentioned to my sister how well behaved they were throughout the entire flight. It would have been nice if someone had given up their seat so my sister and BIL could each sit with one kid, but no one offered so they didn't ask.

Anyway, so far the Westerdam is wonderful (as usual) and HMC was heavenly today. The best weather we've ever had on any private island. We're getting ready to sail away from there as I type this.

[Stinkerbellorama]

We were on the Veendam last week. We took our kids 9 and 11 to the PG. They love good food, eat out often and are enjoyable company. We paid for all four of us and the value was wonderful even if they didn't eat as much as an adult would. If they were not able to sit thru a 2 hour dinner, I would not have considered bringing them since there are so many other options on the ship. The staff was very nice and both our servers had children the of similar ages at home so we got extra attention :)

[NoNoNanette]

This has to be the COOLEST moniker ever!!!!!!!!!!!

Stinkerbellorama (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/member.php?u=341765)

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!! :)

[cruisecrasy]

RCI has two ala carte venues on some but not all of their ships. Yes they used to be adults but alas, no longer. Now you can bring kids in before 8pm so that formerly adult venue has been lost.

Still, when we cruise RCI, which is seldom because they are first and foremost a family cruise line and this is the opposite of what we enjoy, then we book the ala cartes every evening at 8:30 as soon as we board.

Perhaps HAL could open the PG to families early in the evening and then make it a true adult restaurant after 7:30. Seems like a workable compromise.

Did not mean to imply RCL restricted children in the specialty restaurants except for the 'not after 8 pm' rule (helps the adults with that anyway) - just meant to point out they have 2 specialty restaurants - on some ships of course - as u pointed out..

Thought it might solve the problem re: adult only dining if enough want it..

Unfortunately one ship I like, the Rhapsody & its sister ships, don't even have 1 specialty restaurant - ABOUT TIME IT DID RCL...!!! and is very disappointing...
Wld like to 'do' the Hawaii trip on her but not without a specialty restaurant onboard...

Than again, I like to sail HAL also but am rethinking that with no 'adult only' times in the PG..

Your suggestion is excellent :-) Its a 'win-win' for all which is important - kiddies & parents before 7:30 pm & adults afterwards...
.. wld sure work for me..!!

Have happy cruisin'!

[cruisecrasy]

Had a triple post earlier which, believe me, I always attempt to avoid..

Plse accept my apologies..

Can't understand why they happen when I only ever push the send button once..curious & annoying!! :-(

[ON cruiser]

It is amazing that this thread has continued. My views remain that really the PG is best an adults-only venue, but I have seen some excellent suggestions for compromise from other posters: PG open to all at lunch, reserved to adults at dinner; PG open to all for reservations until a specific earlier time at night; etc.

May I suggest that those who have these good ideas send an email to HAL directly, rather than hope that their views will be seen on this board? Only with feedback will the line realize that there is an issue, which easily could be resolved so that most people are if not satisfied, at least accepting.

[world~citizen]

It is amazing that this thread has continued. My views remain that really the PG is best an adults-only venue, but I have seen some excellent suggestions for compromise from other posters: PG open to all at lunch, reserved to adults at dinner; PG open to all for reservations until a specific earlier time at night; etc.

May I suggest that those who have these good ideas send an email to HAL directly, rather than hope that their views will be seen on this board? Only with feedback will the line realize that there is an issue, which easily could be resolved so that most people are if not satisfied, at least accepting.

Yes the thread has continued for some time.

The other post that seems to have taken on "legs" is the one about shorts in the dining room. Both address the issue of the nature of the experience on the cruise vacation.

For myself, I prefer the PG to be a venue that would allow an adult dining experience, commensurate with the ambiance of the that facility. Suggesting this resonates with some people, pushes a red button with others, but for the most part has stimulated good discussion as you have said.

To further clarify my point, I did not mean to say that to have an adult experience in the PG means you have to be an adult to get in, but that the people who "dine", and I mean "dine" in the PG should not behave in a way as to ruin the experience for those who have paid a premium to enjoy it.

Realistically, this suggests an age restriction. I don't think you should have to be 18 to get into the venue. It is very difficult though, to make a compelling case for a six month old, 24-36 month old, or even a five year old child.

If I understand some of the posts here correctly, it would be reasonable to bring toddlers into the PG to eat hotdogs, perhaps, from the children's menu, but unreasonable to pay the 30 dollar fee for the privilege. This, in my view, demonstrates disrespect on two counts: a disrespect for fellow guests, and a disrespect for HAL which is in the business of - well business.

In my first post on this thread, I said this:

We all love our children and they are all special to us. Still, I remember on our last cruise on the Maasdam in second seating there was a child somewhere in the dining room that cried for what seemed the better part of the dinner each night. I can tell you, the acoustics in the main dining room may not always be so good with respect to hearing your dinner companions, but a child's vocal displeasure carries very well throughout both levels.

Really, I would prefer to offer no opinion about that one way or another. I just think that it would be nice to have a venue on the ship where one could go to have an elegant, adult dining experience. I have no difficulty paying extra for that experience.

I personally think 11 or 12 YEARS not MONTHS old may be an appropriate age restriction. Certainly you should be old enough to be able to read and order off the PG menu. HAL has the resources to to help determine what an appropriate age should be.

While it would be very unlikely that such a child would enjoy all of the delights offered to them in the PG...so what. The very important point here is that they would be very less likely to detract from their fellow guests enjoyment of that splendid venue.

As you have pointed out, a whole host of compromises have been suggested. Each one an attempt to preserve the PG dining experience. Each one has merit.

Your comments urge compromise, which is very ---Canadian-eh? :)

Smooth sailing to you.

[cruisecrasy]

Yes the thread has continued for some time.

The other post that seems to have taken on "legs" is the one about shorts in the dining room. Both address the issue of the nature of the experience on the cruise vacation.

For myself, I prefer the PG to be a venue that would allow an adult dining experience, commensurate with the ambiance of the that facility. Suggesting this resonates with some people, pushes a red button with others, but for the most part has stimulated good discussion as you have said.

To further clarify my point, I did not mean to say that to have an adult experience in the PG means you have to be an adult to get in, but that the people who "dine", and I mean "dine" in the PG should not behave in a way as to ruin the experience for those who have paid a premium to enjoy it.

Realistically, this suggests an age restriction. I don't think you should have to be 18 to get into the venue. It is very difficult though, to make a compelling case for a six month old, 24-36 month old, or even a five year old child.

If I understand some of the posts here correctly, it would be reasonable to bring toddlers into the PG to eat hotdogs, perhaps, from the children's menu, but unreasonable to pay the 30 dollar fee for the privilege. This, in my view, demonstrates disrespect on two counts: a disrespect for fellow guests, and a disrespect for HAL which is in the business of - well business.

In my first post on this thread, I said this:

We all love our children and they are all special to us. Still, I remember on our last cruise on the Maasdam in second seating there was a child somewhere in the dining room that cried for what seemed the better part of the dinner each night. I can tell you, the acoustics in the main dining room may not always be so good with respect to hearing your dinner companions, but a child's vocal displeasure carries very well throughout both levels.

Really, I would prefer to offer no opinion about that one way or another. I just think that it would be nice to have a venue on the ship where one could go to have an elegant, adult dining experience. I have no difficulty paying extra for that experience.

I personally think 11 or 12 YEARS not MONTHS old may be an appropriate age restriction. Certainly you should be old enough to be able to read and order off the PG menu. HAL has the resources to to help determine what an appropriate age should be.

While it would be very unlikely that such a child would enjoy all of the delights offered to them in the PG...so what. The very important point here is that they would be very less likely to detract from their fellow guests enjoyment of that splendid venue.

As you have pointed out, a whole host of compromises have been suggested. Each one an attempt to preserve the PG dining experience. Each one has merit.

Your comments urge compromise, which is very ---Canadian-eh? :)

Smooth sailing to you.

I agree - yours is an excellent suggestion also..and in my humble opinion, the best so far.

Happy cruisin'!!

[simplelife]

.

I don't believe in serving "chicken nuggets" to anyone in the PG, however. It has a menu and that's what the diners should be chosing from.

I agree. If parents want to give their children a "fine dining" experience, that's exactly what they should do. They should pay the upcharge, and instruct their children in how to order from the menu, enjoy the courses and their presentation (and perhaps the idea of trying some things they don't usually eat) and to engage in appropriate dinner conversation.

Few children are ready for this. Even the well-behaved children in the OP's family have to occupy themselves by reading at the table - Though they are considerate of their parents and other diners, IMO they are not themselves benefiting from the experience.

Parents who choose a family vacation need to realize that the experiences are inherently different than those on an adult getaway. Having children affects our choices in everyday life - we spend our money differently, choose our activities differently, and often place our own desires aside for our children's needs. We are able to enjoy some experiences that those without children cannot, but at the same time, we must forgo or postpone other experiences It's no different on a cruise.







When people choose to being children on a cruise

[pipedreams62]

Wow I didn't even know kids were allowed in the PG till I read these threads. I've only eaten in there once,and didn't see any kids.

Let me get this straight,they're not allowed to sing Happy Birthday in the PG but kids are allowed?

Wow expensive cruises,ordering $30 dinners off the menu.

We've really come a long way from sitting in the back of dads station wagon,with his cigarette ashes blowing in our face.

touring the national parks and looking for the largest ball of twine.

http://www.stationwagon.com/gallery/pictures/1970_Ford_Country_Squire.jpg

[world~citizen]

Wow I didn't even know kids were allowed in the PG till I read these threads. I've only eaten in there once,and didn't see any kids.

Let me get this straight,they're not allowed to sing Happy Birthday in the PG but kids are allowed?

Wow expensive cruises,ordering $30 dinners off the menu.

We've really come a long way from sitting in the back of dads station wagon,with his cigarette ashes blowing in our face.

touring the national parks and looking for the largest ball of twine.

http://www.stationwagon.com/gallery/pictures/1970_Ford_Country_Squire.jpg

Looks like a 1970 Ford wagon?

See what happens when you miss staff meetings. :eek: :)

[pipedreams62]

Looks like a 1970 Ford wagon?

See what happens when you miss staff meetings. :eek: :)


You Know your cars;)

[scottjeanne]

Just a point of infromation. Disney Cruise lines-the most child friendly-has an adults only restaurant- Palos. If they can do it????

[world~citizen]

Just a point of infromation. Disney Cruise lines-the most child friendly-has an adults only restaurant- Palos. If they can do it????

True, and you don't get much more "family" oriented than Disney.

[iceman93]

How many people here have actually had a meal in the PG ruined by the presence of children? Are we arguing about a hypothetical situation or is there some basis in fact for the negativity towards kids?

I find it interesting that the "compromise" solutions offered by some and wholeheartedly supported by some others invariably involve restricting, one way or another, childrens' presence in the PG. Imagine the uproar if I suggested that PG be adults-only at lunch, but only families with children under 12 be allowed at night? Isn't that a great "compromise"?

The bottom line is that all our opinions are interesting, but the policy remains that anyone may dine in the PG. Luckily for me, that matches my opinion of what the policy should be. And no matter how much other posters may think children neither appreciate nor are part of "the finer things" in life, I disagree and am glad my daughter is able to continue enjoying such things both on land and aboard HAL ships.

[caviargal]

Hopefully HAL has considered the preferences of their adult clients who prefer a kid free dining experience and will offer this on the Eurodam and future ships, such as Celebrity does on their ships. We would certainly book often.

[dakrewser]

We've really come a long way from sitting in the back of dads station wagon,with his cigarette ashes blowing in our face. touring the national parks and looking for the largest ball of twine.

http://www.stationwagon.com/gallery/pictures/1970_Ford_Country_Squire.jpg

Oh my! That's my car from 25 years ago! Except mine was green, but - yes - my wife & I and 4 kids would head off either to visit the grandparents, or head to the White mountains (or the Poconos), all pile into a room in the Howard Johnson's motel - and eat hot dogs and chicken nuggets for supper!

:)

[Rebecca33]

approx 5 nites out of every 7, I definately agree with u re: 'adults only' dining...

Perhaps HAL shld, like RCL, have 2 alternative dining rooms so they cld then have one open and 1 restricted to adults only.

Otherwise, a good suggestion that has already been put forth, try an 'adults only' at nite and open the specialty restaurant to all at lunch..

Of course, one way to partially solve the problem wld be to charge all who dine the same amt. - that wld discourage a lot of parents..

Plse consider this all parents, when u get older and look forward to dining on your cruise do u want children dining closeby? Yah right, of course u will - NOT..well thats how a lot of us older parents & singles feel now!!
Happy cruisin' all!

I have a 4 year old son. He is coming with us on our cruise and yes he will dine with us at some point. He is one of those perfectly behaved children that were talked about earlier (tongue planted firmly in cheek)...

He has his moments but he knows how to act in certain situations and what is expected of him, just as my parents did with me.

However he is 4. So he really doesnt want to sit for 3 hours while we eat and drink wine, though he can and will when it is necessary.... We always take advantage of kids clubs and room service... He loves to have his food delivered to the room then go to play while we eat.

When we are out for dinner to celebrate our Anniversary on the cruise and if there are kids running around or misbehaving, I would have no problem bringing it to the attention of the manager until it is corrected. As I would expect someone to do to me if I ever let mine misbehave. And I would do the same if it was another adult causing a scene...

It really doesnt matter if you are 4 or 104.... If you cant behave in an appropriate manner no matter where you are, you shouldnt be there.

This is more of a behaviour subject rather than a child subject... If the kids are really that bad, how great are the parents acting....

[Zesty Italian]

Wow! I haven't read this thread in awhile. We have some strong opinions. I will say what few have apparently heard, "My kids have misbehaved". I am strict with them and have taught them manners, but they still have their moments. Fortunately, as someone else said, they know how to act in public. Still, as I said early on in the thread, I prefer to go to a fine dining venue with adults only. I do NOT hate kids, but social norms these days seem to be that kids and adults think anything goes. I agree with almost everything that has been said. Some kids behave well, some like fancy foods... The problem is when they don't and the parents don't do anything. As I also said earlier, club Hal isn't open during most dining times. That would be my first suggestion. My next is that if kids are allowed in the PG, the staff should ask them to leave if they don't behave.(adults, too;) ) I think the root of everyone's displeasure is that noone does anything about rude behavior.

[jerseygirl3]

Okay, here's an update. We had dinner at PG last pm. Although we were specifically told the kids could order off the main dining menu, they could not. Their only options were hamburger, hotdog, mac and cheese or chicken nuggets. I'm not quite sure why you can order off the regular main dining room menu and have it sent via room service, but this could not be accomplished to the PG. Anyway, at this point my sister was ready to shell out the $60 to pay so the kids could order off the regular menu, but I told her I thought, given their size and small appetite, that that was ridiculous. So the kids ordered a hamburger and mac and cheese. The kids were so quiet there were times I forgot they were even there. Now do I think they benefited from the dining experience? No. And I'll tell you why. The service stunk. Our waiter never even came back once and asked how everything was. We got more attention from the wine sommolier. The food was outstanding, but the service was terribly lacking. I thought the kids would enjoy how attentive the servers generally are, but that was not the case. It had nothing to do with the kids being there, because as I said, the kids are very quiet and unless you specifically looked at our table, you'd never know they were there. There was a table next to us with a young boy (probably about 9 years of age) who was also extremely well behaved. Truth be told, there was a table of 4 or 5 women (mid-50's to 60's) who were quite loud and obnoxious.

So there you have it. It wasn't the dining experience we had hoped, but it all had to do with lack of service and a rowdy table of women. Actually, the service was so lacking that we decided to cancel our second reservation we made for Saturday night.

Now the service in the main dining room (which, btw, we have AYWD) was fantastic. And the food was very good as well (not as good as PG, but certainly very good).

[world~citizen]

Glad you liked AYWD. I suppose we will have to drive off that bridge when we get there.

While you have been busy enjoying your cruise, we have been busy thrashing the notion of dining in the PG and kids ad nauseam. :eek:

Surprised to hear about the PG service, but am sympathetic to HAL with respect to the fee to order off the PG menu.

I hope this does nothing to interfere with the enjoyment of your cruise. You are on a "HAL" of a ship, and that can never be bad.

Smooth sailing always...

[caviargal]

We are booked in the PG on the WES in 11 days so I will be hoping for a better experience than jerseygirl3 reports.

As for kids ordering off the dining room or any special menu, since there are separate kitchens this can only have a negative impact on service levels overall for everyone at that waiter's station. For this reason and others, IMO it should not be an option to allow kids to order off the main dining room menu.

[bplazo]

I agree that it has to be an impostion to order off the main dining room menus. Everyone who goes to the specialty restraunts should order from what is on their menu and pay the fee.

[momofmeg]

No need to duck - I agree with you. The best specialty restaurant at sea is Palo on Disney Cruise Line, and they don't permit anyone under age 18. It fills up every night, too!

I doubt it's ever been a problem on HAL before the Vista Class ships started marketing to families with kids. I took my son in there on the Amsterdam, but he was 15, wearing a suit, and towered over me. He also grew up socializing with adults, so I knew he wouldn't act like a kid in there. However, if there had been an age limit I would have gladly skipped it that cruise.

Sue/WDW1972
Veendam 4/06/08

Disney does have the kid's club which is open to midnight_ I think that helps as Mom and Dad have a babysitter.

Disney also has lounges that were adult's only like the piano bar etc. and they SHOULD BE adult's only is my feeling! I saw people turned away who wanted to bring their children into the piano bar.

The adult's only pool was also monitored and if people brought their children they were quickly asked to leave.

[momofmeg]

ignoring a screaming child is NOT the answer...

what would've happened to me if I'd done that? And mom will tell you it did..

I was spanked and taken out and 'to go' containers ordered.

Yep, you were one of those "devil kids" for sure. We loved you and put up with you because that is what parents are supposed to do-but we did not expect others to- and it did not matter the restuarant-if you acted up in a Mac Donalds we left and did not subject others to your tantrums.


Ofcourse when you were little we would not have dreamed of trying to take you to an upscale restuarant. It was places like Cracker Barrel and Shoneys back then.

[dakrewser]

Now do I think they benefited from the dining experience? No. And I'll tell you why. The service stunk. Our waiter never even came back once and asked how everything was.

Unlike your local Applebee's, a well-trained waiter never interrupts the diner to ask "is everything OK?" But, if there is a problem, a slightly raised finger - even an elevated eye-brow - should bring him to your side immediately.

Of course, if your water glass or wine glass should become empty, that's a sign of poor service.

[NoNoNanette]

Unlike your local Applebee's, a well-trained waiter never interrupts the diner to ask "is everything OK?" But, if there is a problem, a slightly raised finger - even an elevated eye-brow - should bring him to your side immediately.

Of course, if your water glass or wine glass should become empty, that's a sign of poor service.

Dave, you're knocking me out, here.

Are you saying that "fine restaurants" do not "interrupt" to ask a patron how their meal is.

If so, you need to get around, dude. Come down to New Orleans, and I'll show you how it's (SERVICE) done at fine dining establishments. :)

*shaking my head in disbelief* :confused:

[dakrewser]

Dave, you're knocking me out, here.

Are you saying that "fine restaurants" do not "interrupt" to ask a patron how their meal is.

If so, you need to get around, dude. Come down to New Orleans, and I'll show you how it's (SERVICE) done at fine dining establishments. :)

*shaking my head in disbelief* :confused:

That's exactly what i'm saying, dear. A well-trained waiter knows the food is good when he sets it in front of you - because if it wasn't, he never would have let it get out of the galley. He knows you have the correct silverware, because he checked it before serving the course. He quietly took care of any beverage issues you might have without the need to address you.

But if it's now the norm in NOLA to interrupt diners' conversations, then it's simply one more reason not to visit.

Still, I wouldn't expect that - if something were not quite right - that you would wait patiently for someone to ask if you had a problem, would you?

[pipedreams62]

Kreskin has changed professions and is now a waiter:confused:


http://www.kwmagic.com/images/kreskin.jpg

[NoNoNanette]

Dave-Honey.... I'm afraid that we're not on the same wavelength. Big surprise, huh? ;)

I'm accustomed to my servers being RIGHT THERE. Checking on food, drinks, presentation. And, honestly..... they're not "interrupting" my dining experience... they're trying to enhance it.

First NY, now New Orleans.... Dave, Dave, Dave. :(

[Sprocket]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Now that is funny:D ]rotflmho

[gatorbaby1]

I hate obtrusive waiters, waiters should not be seen nor heard from unless there is a problem. I hate when I 'm in the middle of my conversation, and I look over and see the waiter breathing over my shoulder waiting to ask if everything is ok.

[NoNoNanette]

I hate obtrusive waiters, waiters should not be seen nor heard from unless there is a problem. I hate when I 'm in the middle of my conversation, and I look over and see the waiter breathing over my shoulder waiting to ask if everything is ok.

Agreed to a point. However, I'm dismayed if a server doesn't bother to check on my table.

I don't want him "breathing over my shoulder", but I like to be acknowledged.

[CocoKai]

the bad service issue was exactly my one and only problem with all 3 times I have been to the PG. Why does HAL use the "Eastern/Former Russian" waiters in this restaurant? Hands down, the Indonesian and Phillipino dining room stewards could jump circles around these guys. They know service!!!!!

Why do they staff the PG with an entirely different nationality? The whole thing is quite strange to me but there must be a reason that I'm failing to understand

[iceman93]

This thread is taking another interesting turn, but not a surprising one. While some people rave about the Pinnacle Grill, I've never had better than a decent meal there. The food has really been no better than in the main dining room, and (as others have noticed) the service has actually been a notch below. And that was my experience on the Rotterdam, Maasdam, and Ryndam, so it's not a one-ship issue.

To be honest, this is one reason I've chuckled at all the people claiming kids can't enjoy this "first-class experience". It's not all that elegant, to be honest.

[CocoKai]

Totally agree Iceman.....I think the meat and the meat alone has been outstanding. The rest you can find in the dining room for free.

The chairs in the PG also remind me of heavy outside garden furniture. Don't know if they are the same ship to ship.

[caviargal]

Totally agree Iceman.....I think the meat and the meat alone has been outstanding. The rest you can find in the dining room for free.

The chairs in the PG also remind me of heavy outside garden furniture. Don't know if they are the same ship to ship.

Oh, my, the chairs! I love these handmade in Italy chairs and do not think they look anything like garden furniture. JMHO.

Personally, I love the Bvlgari table settings, the smaller setting, and the more formal atmosphere. I eat meat rarely but have been pleased with their fish dishes in general.

For us, we simply prefer the ambiance and the food is good enough to get us coming back.

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

Hmmm...

we are thinking of trying for lunch one day... if it's available on our ship.

[jerseygirl3]

I hate obtrusive waiters, waiters should not be seen nor heard from unless there is a problem. I hate when I 'm in the middle of my conversation, and I look over and see the waiter breathing over my shoulder waiting to ask if everything is ok.

Update...the waiter at PG never asked if we needed anything,period. No offer of fresh ground pepper, he was nowhere in sight for pretty much the entire meal. If we needed something, we would have had to track him down. That's poor service.

OTOH, our waiter in the AYWD is so phenomenal, we have requested him for the entire week. It meant having to switch our preferred time around a bit (he has 7:45 table for 6 open each night), which is a little later than we'd prefer, but he's so good it's worth it. Actually, every waiter I've seen and observed in the main dining room for AYWD has been outstanding. I don't think anybody has anything to fear. The food has been fabulous as well.

We're having a wonderful time on Westerdam. It's one of our favorite ships. the only negative so far has been PG. But that's okay. We loved the specialty restaurants on Celebrity and have also experiened a less than stellar dinner, so I'm not upset by it. Everything else has been so positive it couldn't possibly dampen our enthusiasm for Westerdam.

[cruisecrasy]

Totally agree Iceman.....I think the meat and the meat alone has been outstanding. The rest you can find in the dining room for free.

The chairs in the PG also remind me of heavy outside garden furniture. Don't know if they are the same ship to ship.

The chairs are the same in each ship category - R, V, S + class but different between them..as is the room decoration..

Have happy cruisin'!

[jerseygirl3]

Post script to this topic.

Two nights ago, while finishing our meal in the main dining room, an older (70's) gentleman was leaving his dinner table and stopped at ours as he was leaving. He said to my DH and me "I have to compliment you on how well behaved your children are." I answered, "oh, thank you, but they're not ours." To which he replied, "now don't be shy, you should be very proud of them. I was very reluctant to be seated at a table next to a family with young children, but yours have taught me I shouldn't prejudge children's behavior, because yours have been outstanding." It brought a smile to my face, although I'm flattered that he would think that I, at the age of 53, would have 7-year-old twins! My sister and BIL were seated at the table with us, but for some reason he thought the kids were ours. He made his comment very quietly, so my sister and BIL didn't hear what he had said. When I told them they were very pleased, needless to say. Also, there was a couple who sat next to us for several nights. They, too, commented on how well behaved the kids were. The woman said they were well behaved, but not precocious. They ordered off the regular menu every night and after giving their order to the waiter, they always said thank you. So the lesson here is that if anybody is ever seated next to my little niece and nephew at dinner, have no fear. You will enjoy your meal without interruption for poor behavior!!!LOL