Holland America ashamed

[tammar]

It is Thursday, September 2, 2004, 1:35pm and still there is no word from Holland America about the Zuiderdam.

Holland America should be ashamed and I hope they read this.

We have many people here who need to know today, about what the heck HA is going to do.

HA acts like everyone lives five minutes from the port.

Sorry for everyone if your cruise is confused this week.

Please stay safe.

[Orcrone]

tammar,

On the HAL website they have a link to a hurricane advisory. It's supposed to be updated at 10:00 AM PST (not daylight time). That's about 20 minutes away. Hopefully, they'll have something definitive.

[elmorejj]

It seems to me that cruise lines who are home based in Fla, are quicker to make a decision than HAL out there in Seattle. I guess they really don`t have a clue as to how serious a hurricane can be. Hopefully they are staying in touch with someone on the East coast.....jean :cool:

[tammar]

I hope so, their telephone line is the same as yesterday. All ports are closed. And Cnn just stated that this storm is larger than Andrew. We lived in Florida during Andrew.

People need to know what is going on. I especially feel sorry for folks traveling so far.
It is bad enough that they might not be able to get on their ship, and worse because they have no idea the power of such a storm and being in Florida and not being able to leave is terrifying.

TELL THEM HOLLAND AMERICA, DO NOT LET THEM GET CAUGHT

[stillfrantic]

They have ticked me off to the point that they needant waste their promotional material on me to book another cruise. Maybe we'll sail next week, maybe we won't. Regardless, my next cruise booked will be on a line that had much better customer service in the face of adversity.

I know, everything is much worse for those who live in Florida, and my thoughts are for their safety. It is just ridiculous for people in Seattle to be telling me the ship is sailing as normal from Ft. Lauderdale tomorrow when the area is under a mandatory evacuation. Somehow HAL thinks they are immune from an ordered evacuation? Pluueeze:rolleyes:

[jhannah]

Folks, let's not come down so hard on HAL yet. They know exactly what the risks and dangers are. No matter what they do, they're going to severely tick off and negatively impact hundreds of people, and incur millions of dollars of expense. Their course of action cannot be a knee-jerk reaction. They must deliberately consider what is in the best interest of their pax and their overall operation. They have been waiting, at least to some degree I'm sure, to see if this storm is going to truly behave as predicted. They understand the logistics of keeping everyone safe and protecting their investment. I cannot imagine the stress that's happening in Seattle right now, knowing that no matter what they do it's going to cost them dearly. Let's give them a chance to prove what a class act they are.

[spcl4cs_gal]

Folks, let's not come down so hard on HAL yet. They know exactly what the risks and dangers are. No matter what they do, they're going to severely tick off and negatively impact hundreds of people, and incur millions of dollars of expense. Their course of action cannot be a knee-jerk reaction. They must deliberately consider what is in the best interest of their pax and their overall operation. They have been waiting, at least to some degree I'm sure, to see if this storm is going to truly behave as predicted. They understand the logistics of keeping everyone safe and protecting their investment. I cannot imagine the stress that's happening in Seattle right now, knowing that no matter what they do it's going to cost them dearly. Let's give them a chance to prove what a class act they are.

Thank you for that Jim....JUST AS LONG AS THEY GET TO IT SOON!! :)

[Markandrews]

Holland America seems to be in the same situation as the rest of us here in FL. They really can not make a decision until they know when and where the storm will come ashore.

As of 12 noon today the weather forecasters were still guessing. I know that you have a lot as stake but I am sure HAL's main concern is the safety of all passengers and crew.

Another post mentioned that Florida based cruise lines are making faster decisions. I am pretty sure that Carnival Corp based in Miami is relaying info to HAL. After all, they do own Holland America

[WJBonds]

Everyone here is right on. It seems to me that the airlines have mades decisions and the other cruise lines have made decisions.

Holland America keeps stalling. We can't change any of our travel plans until HAL lets us know their intentions - and they won't.

It's been a very frustrating day.

[bldsld]

Seabourn's offices in Fort Lauderdale are closed, which is a serious departure from the norm. The storm is worsening, and you need to give HAL a chance to evaluate the situation, which appears to be changing constantly. They will react, no doubt, as soon as they can.

bldsld

[Markandrews]

They have ticked me off to the point that they needant waste their promotional material on me to book another cruise. Maybe we'll sail next week, maybe we won't. Regardless, my next cruise booked will be on a line that had much better customer service in the face of adversity.



Over on the NCL board they are always praising that company for good customer service. LOL.

I am sure you are concerned about your cruise but HAL can not control the weather. There are a lot of people involved in a company as large as Holland America. It will take awhile for the info to flow down to the CS reps.

[WJBonds]

why are you apologizing for the one company that has done NOTHING to help its customers.

The 10 AM (PST) update has still not been posted.

[jollycruiser]

They can't even keep a promise of a 10am update which is still well overdo. The poorest of customer relations.

[stillfrantic]

markandrews: Of course they can not control the weather. But, they certainly can control the customer service department. How can every other line make an effort beginning early this week to contact passengers while HAL isn't even nice to me when I call. They can't change the track, but could change their tact.

[tammar]

Thank you WJBonds, that is my point. I do know the terror of a Hurricane and Andrew is classified as a 5.

This storm is huge and I do not want people getting caught in a state they know nothing about. As of now all ports are closed and will be closed through the weekend.

[Lithium]

markandrews: Of course they can not control the weather. But, they certainly can control the customer service department. How can every other line make an effort beginning early this week to contact passengers while HAL isn't even nice to me when I call. They can't change the track, but could change their tact.
I couldn't agree with you more. They have had more than a week to contemplate the "what if" condition, but it seems they didn't think about it until this morning.

[hdawson]

I've searched several cruiseline websites. It appears that the storm will hit late Fri night or early on Sat. Storm is moving at about 13 miles per hour. This will allow all of the Sat evening cruises to depart. I would guess that there may be some late departures waiting for delayed flights. Hope everyone has travel insurance covering flights that may be cancelled.

[Lithium]

I've searched several cruiseline websites. It appears that the storm will hit late Fri night or early on Sat. Storm is moving at about 13 miles per hour. This will allow all of the Sat evening cruises to depart. I would guess that there may be some late departures waiting for delayed flights. Hope everyone has travel insurance covering flights that may be cancelled.
I would be very surprised at this. Remember this storm is nearly the size of texas. If the eye hits saturday morning, you still have a good 160 miles of storm left behind it. Airports surely won't be open at all on saturday, and neither will the ports. The other problem is none of the ships will be able to get back into port on Saturday. I would be surprised if they got back on Sunday.

[stillfrantic]

Hope everyone has travel insurance covering flights that may be cancelled. If HAL would just tell us their plans, we would try to reschedule appropriate flights. Thus far I can't change anything because HAL won't make a decision.:mad:

[xpcdoojk]

Over at RCI people are saying the exact same silly things that are being said in this thread, only they are mad at RCI not HAL.

Do you realize that there is a major category storm bearing down on Florida?:confused: They don't know where it will make landfall. They don't know when it will make landfall. They don't know anything for certain, there are people on those ships, and there are people in those ports. The roads are packed with cars bugging out. The governor has declared a state of emergency. What decisions do you want the cruiseline to make?

Let me speak more bluntly.... You booked a cruise during hurricane season. Did you take out insurance? Do you want to be in Florida when Frances hits the coast? Do you realize almost 20 people were killed in Florida when Charlie hit? Do you realize people are still without homes? It is a cruise, get over it. It is not life and death for you, but for the people in florida it may well be.

In my opinion, your rage at the cruiselines is completely wasted, misplaced and silly.:rolleyes:

jc

Now feel free to return to the previously scheduled program.:p

[Lithium]

Over at RCI people are saying the exact same silly things that are being said in this thread, only they are mad at RCI not HAL.

Do you realize that there is a major category storm bearing down on Florida?:confused: They don't know where it will make landfall. They don't know when it will make landfall. They don't know anything for certain, there are people on those ships, and there are people in those ports. The roads are packed with cars bugging out. The governor has declared a state of emergency. What decisions do you want the cruiseline to make?

Let me speak more bluntly.... You booked a cruise during hurricane season. Did you take out insurance? Do you want to be in Florida when Frances hits the coast? Do you realize almost 20 people were killed in Florida when Charlie hit? Do you realize people are still without homes? It is a cruise, get over it. It is not life and death for you, but for the people in florida it may well be.

In my opinion, your rage at the cruiselines is completely wasted, misplaced and silly.:rolleyes:

jc

Now feel free to return to the previously scheduled program.:pYes, we realize all of the above. This isn't a message board dedicated to Florida though which is why we are all talking about cruises...after all, it is a cruise board. I feel very bad for the people in florida, as do the rest of us I am sure. They are all in our prayers. But that doesn't make it any easier for people that have spent hard earned money for a vacation and are trying to make changes for the storm also. HAL has had over a week to think about this at least, yet they leave us hanging. All other cruise lines have already made decisions, why not HAL?

At this point, it doesn't matter where it makes landfall. Its going to effect all of Florida. It seems all of us have realized this for days, yet HAL just woke up this morning and realized it. I don't think its fair for you to criticise us being concerned over our vacation we have been planning for months and the thousands and thousands of dollars we are spending on it.

Last, I don't see any rage here.....just frustration.

[WJBonds]

Yes, I can understand that the managment may not have a clerar picture of the situation in Florida.

Yes I can understand their being hesitant about making changes.

What I don't understand is their lack of communication. Updates were do over an hour ago. People in Seattle are cluless and not very helpful.

This is not acceptable.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I was just on HAL's web site - and there still hasn't been an up date. Same message we have all been reading since yesterday.

[Nasmas]

Folks, let's not come down so hard on HAL yet. They know exactly what the risks and dangers are. No matter what they do, they're going to severely tick off and negatively impact hundreds of people, and incur millions of dollars of expense. Their course of action cannot be a knee-jerk reaction. They must deliberately consider what is in the best interest of their pax and their overall operation. They have been waiting, at least to some degree I'm sure, to see if this storm is going to truly behave as predicted. They understand the logistics of keeping everyone safe and protecting their investment. I cannot imagine the stress that's happening in Seattle right now, knowing that no matter what they do it's going to cost them dearly. Let's give them a chance to prove what a class act they are.I'm all for giving them a chance. But, I dont' have time to wait until noon Sat. Our flight leaves at 6:55 in the morning. I know we're not going but I would like to be able to switch, which Northwest says we can with no penalty. But, how do I switch when I don't have a clue what to switch to? Sun, Mon. or Tues? Just tell me something. We know they'll not be coming into Port Everglades Sat. morning so they've got to decide where they're going.

[tammar]

Hurricane Andrew was a catergory 5 storm. Frances is a Catergory 4. Frances is twice the size of Andrew. At this point I would make other plans. Please folks, if at all possible, stay out of Florida for your own safety.

[xpcdoojk]

I am trying to tell you, that HAL is not the only cruiseline that doesn't have a clue about what they are going to do.

If you book a cruise during hurricane season, you had damned well better plan for this contingency of having a messed up cruise. Odds are most cruises this time of the year won't be affected, but it is always a possibility. That is why the cruises at this time of the year are cheaper. Hurricanes almost never hit South Florida on a weekend this one may. Nobody knows where it is going to hit, so would you be happy if HAL cancelled a cruise out of FLL but then it turned out the Hurricane hit way to the north, and they were bypassed? Expecting the cruiseline to know what they are going to do instantly is not realistic. I wonder how many customer service people they have. I wonder how many phone calls and emails they are getting right now. I wonder further, how many mindless twits are calling the customer service people when they don't even have a cruise booked for this weekend? Do you realize that no matter what decision the cruiselines make there are going to be mad people. It is a decision making nightmare. I understand it is your vacation, but do you really want to be in Miami when the full force of the hurricane hits land?

jc

[stillfrantic]

I think no one here will be mad at the decision, we just want A decision so we can go about our lives. I am set to leave in 15 hours, and at this point, the travel insurance we did purchase for protection says without the trip being cancelled, we'd better be there if we want the coverage. So, don't tell us to get over it. We'll gladly get over it once HAL steps up to the plate and makes a call.

[dakrewser]

I wonder further, how many mindless twits are calling the customer service people when they don't even have a cruise booked for this weekend? Do you realize that no matter what decision the cruiselines make there are going to be mad people. It is a decision making nightmare. I understand it is your vacation, but do you really want to be in Miami when the full force of the hurricane hits land?

jc
Think, too, of the hundreds of calls from friends and relatives of those on the Zui right now - all wanting guarantees that their loved ones are not only safe, but won't get wet or seasick.

Still, since they were foolish enough to promise an update this morning, they should at least change the date on the update page!

-dave

[jayjaycan]

I can appreciate how frustrated people are not knowing if their cruise is to be cancelled or not but making statements about how HAL is the only line who hasn't advised ticket holders is irresponsible. Take a look at the comments on the other boards. All cruise lines are in the same situation and they are not likely to decide until the last possible minute.
My question is...Why don't you contact your TA? They are the ones who sold you the ticket and they should be able to up date you, or get an answer from the cruise line.
Did you purchase cancellation insurance knowing you were sailing in hurricane season?

Hoping for the best is the only option at this point.

[stillfrantic]

Just received this email:

"Thank you for your e-mail regarding your reservation on the ms Zuiderdam sailing September 4, 2004. Yes, we are aware of the recent weather conditions in the Florida/Caribbean areas with Hurricane Frances. Currently the ms Zuiderdam is sailing at 5 pm on Saturday as scheduled."

:confused:

[Lithium]

I can appreciate how frustrated people are not knowing if their cruise is to be cancelled or not but making statements about how HAL is the only line who hasn't advised ticket holders is irresponsible. Take a look at the comments on the other boards. All cruise lines are in the same situation and they are not likely to decide until the last possible minute.
My question is...Why don't you contact your TA? They are the ones who sold you the ticket and they should be able to up date you, or get an answer from the cruise line.
Did you purchase cancellation insurance knowing you were sailing in hurricane season?

Hoping for the best is the only option at this point.

Instead of taking a look at the message boards, why don't you take a look at other cruise websites. All of them that I have seen have updates on what is going on and what their plans are.

[stillfrantic]

Lithium, I agree! I looked at Disney, Royal Carribean, and NCL. All had the contingency listed. Princess did not have anything on their front page, so don't know about them.

[Orcrone]

Just received this email:

"Thank you for your e-mail regarding your reservation on the ms Zuiderdam sailing September 4, 2004. Yes, we are aware of the recent weather conditions in the Florida/Caribbean areas with Hurricane Frances. Currently the ms Zuiderdam is sailing at 5 pm on Saturday as scheduled."

:confused:I bet the person who wrote that was snickering as he/she hit the SEND button.:rolleyes:

[TT]

As many of you know I live in Port Charlotte and have terrible damage to my home. We had Emergency Management on and spoke about Charlotte county already live on our local channel. They are asking for no one to be on the roads from 8:00am-8:00 pm. They are going to have police (if possible) they said patroling to take care of this. How in the world can I get to Ft. Lauderdale. Plus I just came in from getting my nails done (why I don't know) and 75 is in grid lock. HAL please give us something.......This is not professtional, and not right. Good luck to all!

[Limey Cruiser]

Well i don't know about HAL but i have made my decision, Port Everglades is closed and my hotel has been evacuated so i can't possibly go, i heard Royal Carribean has cancelled all of their crusies so what gives with HAL?, it's 1.20 pm and still no word, as far as i am concerned they are endangering the lives of potential cruise passengers who are trying to get to Ft Lauderdale,the earliest possible time it could leave would be Sunday so does HAL expect its passengers to sit thru a category 4 storm in a shelter while they wait for the ship sitting out at sea to come back in on Sunday?.

They had better cancel i want my money back and will never do business with these clowns again!!:mad:

[xpcdoojk]

I bet the person who wrote that was snickering as he/she hit the SEND button.:rolleyes:
Laughing their a** off would be more like it. :D

Unless you have insurance that says you can cancel at anytime for any reason, if you want your insurance to cover you, it is my understanding that you need to proceed as if the cruise were going to happen.

I still think it is of no value to be mad at the cruiseline because they haven't made a decision two days before the cruise sails. The storm could change course, and if they cancelled the cruise it would cost them a small fortune for no reason. Do what you like feel what you like, but it is kind of unfeeling to be worried about your screwed up vacation plans when the entire state of Florida is under a state of emergency. Some cruiselines may have something of a update on their website, but outside of 3 day cruises they haven't cancelled any 7 day sailings yet. The 7 day sailings and longer on all the cruiselines will most likely occur, the question is from where and when, but those cruises are not going to be cancelled IMHO. Therefore if you are on one of these you are going to have a difficult weekend, no doubt about it.;)

jc

[Limey Cruiser]

Ok a follow up to my pissed off rant from above.....Newsflash, i and the others i was travelling with are getting a full refund from HAL, American Air will give me a refund if the flight is cancelled and a voucher for another flight for $100 if ot goes, so although i still don't know the official status of the cruise(Zuidedam) i am now assuming it has been cancelled altho there is still no website update, my advice is to call the company directly at their Seattle HQ.

Good Luck to you all and keep safe all of you in Florida i'll be thinking about you.


Time to book another cruise, anyone know of any last minute deals for next week sailing from the West Coast?

[stillfrantic]

Just posted the decision under UPDATE. Was typing as I listened.

[RJD]

I was signed up for this cruise through the cruise authority company and they just let me know that the ship will be in on Sun morning, after the hurricane passes and will sail at 8PM on Sun. There will be some compensation for the lost day, but they aren't sure what yet. :)

[hdawson]

I just checked the website and the information for Royal Caribbean is that all upcoming cruises are scheduled to sail. I'm sure that could change but no cancellations as yet.

[Limey Cruiser]

Hey JC, So you think its unfeeling of me to be worried about my cruise, well there is nothing i can do to stop the Hurricane and help those people in Florida and this after all is message board relating to cruises so i think it is an appropriate place for me to vent ( who else but me is going to care about my cruise plans?)

i didn't have insurance but i'm getting a full refund ( sorry but you were wrong on that one to)

:D Later.

[pollux]

When you book a cruise during hurricane season you should buy insurance. Cruises are cheap from June till November because it is hurricane season. It is not new, Florida has storms every year. Lets hope and pray that everyone will be save and the storm will move out to sea.

[hdawson]

Latest estimate for landfall by the weather channel is between Palm Beach and Melbourne. Of course nothing is certain.

[xpcdoojk]

Hey JC, So you think its unfeeling of me to be worried about my cruise, well there is nothing i can do to stop the Hurricane and help those people in Florida and this after all is message board relating to cruises so i think it is an appropriate place for me to vent ( who else but me is going to care about my cruise plans?)

i didn't have insurance but i'm getting a full refund ( sorry but you were wrong on that one to)

:D Later.
I didn't say that exactly, what I said is that if you have insurance you can't just cancel your plans and get your money back. It depends on what the cruiselines do. However, you make my point for me regarding what my frustration was. The cruiseline that several people were proudly stating that they would never use again, did the right thing. Amazing.:rolleyes:

Just for a laugh go visit this link showing the possible tracks of the hurricane.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=75755

jc:D

[tkt2cruz]

I must say reading this makes my blood boil and all the people saying they don't care for HAL anymore. I will tell you...that after the last hurricane..Charley..the cruises that went out the next day were great. The water was like glass...and everyone had a great time. So take the cruise, even if it goes out the next day....you will be glad you did! :)

[xpcdoojk]

It is much more fun to panic.:D HAL forced people to book during hurricane season!:D ;)

jc:D

[Jacqueline]

I understand and empathize with you guys scheduled to go out. The cruise lines should do a better job communicating the uncertaintly of the situations while reassuring everyone that thy are indeed on top of it to the extent practicable.
I have every assurance they are; these ships, the pax and the staff are more than assets, they are the reputation of the line. Their safety will come first. The least safe place to be is in port - where would the pax go ??- the ship would be damaged... They are best following the most current radar and making adjustments on a constant basis keeping the ships out of harms way.
I am positive that if they could tell you what to do, they would, But the nature of a hurricane is such that when it comes to pinpoint accuracy- ie what will be happening at Port everglades on Saturday morning - only God really knows ! They could give you the best information currently available and you could modify your plans but who even knows when and where the airplanes will be able to get in and out of. I am sure that they have all been sent to safe airports away from any track of the storm. Getting them back and into place is going to be another story.
Carnival OWNS these ships- HAL being in Seattle is neither here nor there- and you can bet that the dozens of vessels they have in the carribean are getting direction from the mother ship in this dangerous time.
Waiting is hard, no doubt. Communication could be better but it is obvious that they cannot commit to anything until the situation is more clear. I am sure that they have Plan A Plan B and Plan C. I could not imagine th confusion that would result if these were broadcast.

[RevNeal]

It is much more fun to panic. HAL forced people to book during hurricane season!

"When in trouble
or in doubt
run in circles
cream and shout."
--Robert A. Heinlein

[Spot]

LimeyCruiser
I agree with you about traveling in what is sure to be total chaos in Florida (unless there is a miracle and Frances moves further to the east and heads out to sea).
Although HAL is offering a fantastic shipboard credit, you will only get 6 nights to enjoy, the hell you will go through in "trying" to get through to Port Everglades (if there is a port authority left) may not be worth it.

This chaos is not HAL's fault, everyone is making decisions based on ??????? No one but mother nature has any idea how this will end up.
I do understand however that you are disappointed. I have my eye on a developing storm coming out of Africa now that could impact my departure on 9/25.

The bottom line - Stay Safe and do what you believe is best for you and yours.

[stillfrantic]

cream and shout."
--Robert A. Heinlein
Oh My!

[doone]

The weathermen aren't sure what's going to happen, how could HAL or other cruise lines know what's going to happen. HAL will always make the best decision for the safety of their passengers.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Limey Cruiser

You have every right to vent here.

This is not laughing matter.

Many of you have booked this cruise in good faith. Florida has had storms in the past - but this year they are getting more than their fare share.

Anyone else who wants to vent their frustrations here should do so. You all need to get it out of your systems.

Hopefully many of you won't be too harsh on HAL and will decide to cruise on her again in the future.

[gliles]

I do feel really bad for all of you heading out this weekend. BUT, please don't be mad at HAL, I am sure they don't want to make plans too early, they hope more than each of you individually or collectively that they can sail, think of the lost revenue? One day off of a cruise, revised itinerary and a $400 per cabin credit would make me very happy. The 25% off future is nice too especially considering they are losing money over this situation that they have no control over. I am sure (well not sure because I never read all the fine print :o ) that they really aren't required to compensate anyone. Airlines suffer off schedule operations frequently due to weather and that's just a plane at a time with 200 or so people, we are talking a boatload of people, pun intended.


I do hope you are able to go if you want to, re-book if that is your desire, whatever you do, stay safe and know that those of us not departing this weekend will be thinking of you.

[Sierrachik]

Oh My!
Exactly my first thought too! LOL :)

[RevNeal]

oooooops ... that should have been:

"SCREAM and shout." :D

[JohnR49er]

Thanks Rev, best typo I've seen in a long time. roflmao !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jacqueline]

Home > News > Hurricane UPDATE -- Thursday, Sept. 2, 7 p.m. Find
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September 2, 2004

Hurricane UPDATE -- Thursday, Sept. 2, 7 p.m.
Following is a roundup of cruise line alterations, with respect to Hurricane Frances. We will update them as announcements are made and as long as Hurricane Frances is impacting cruise travel.

A couple of things to keep in mind:

At this point, cruise lines have announced cancellations of short, three- and four-night weekend cruises (departing on Thursday or Friday).

Regardless, travelers booked on a cruise that embarks this weekend from a S. Florida port should be flexible. The cruise you thought you bought may not resemble the one you eventually (hopefully) will take. And remember: Cruise lines are not required to compensate passengers for changes caused by forces of nature. Any such gesture -- Carnival, for instance, is offering onboard credit on some altered voyages, discounts on future trips and even airfare change refunds -- should be considered exceptionally generous.

Cruise lines, such as Royal Caribbean and Carnival, which have outright cancelled voyages beginning today or tomorrow, will most likely send their ships out of harm’s way to the Florida Straits (the waters south of Key West and north of Cuba -- where the Atlantic meets the Gulf of Mexico).

Because September is one of the slowest months in the Caribbean season, ships affected are limited -- luxury cruise lines, for instance, simply aren’t even sailing Caribbean itineraries at this time.

South Florida-based lines, whose headquarters are located within Frances' projected (as of Thursday) strike zone, are closing and sending employees home as of this afternoon. These include Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, Norwegian Cruise Line and Silversea, among others. Most of the lines either have established satellite reservation operations -- or are setting them up temporarily.

Stay tuned -- and check back often.

Carolyn Spencer Brown
Editor
Cruisecritic.com



Holland America Line

(Thursday, September 2, 7:10 p.m.) -- Holland America’s Zuiderdam will – as expected – experience itinerary changes. The ship, which sails a seven night Port Everglades-based Caribbean and Bahamas cruise, will not turnaround on Saturday, September 4 as scheduled. In an oddly vague statement, Holland America says Zuiderdam will "arrive at Port Everglades as soon as practical following the opening of the port" -- which could be late Saturday or sometime Sunday. More definitively, the company reports that the ship will set off on its next cruise on Sunday, September 5 and sail a modified six night itinerary. Zuiderdam will not go to Half Moon Cay in the Bahamas – HAL's private island – or Key West but will head instead to Ocho Rios, Grand Cayman and Cozumel.

Guests booked on the Saturday, September 4th sailing of the ms Zuiderdam have the two options. Those who decide not to sail will receive a full refund. Those who sail on the revised voyage will receive a Holland America Line future travel discount in the amount of 25 percent of the cruise fare paid, plus a ship board credit ranging from $150 - $500 per person (based on cabin category purchased).>

[AV8OR]

I can appreciate how frustrated people are not knowing if their cruise is to be cancelled or not but making statements about how HAL is the only line who hasn't advised ticket holders is irresponsible. Take a look at the comments on the other boards. All cruise lines are in the same situation and they are not likely to decide until the last possible minute.
My question is...Why don't you contact your TA? They are the ones who sold you the ticket and they should be able to up date you, or get an answer from the cruise line.
Did you purchase cancellation insurance knowing you were sailing in hurricane season?

Hoping for the best is the only option at this point.

In my case, contacting the TA was fruitless. She too was frustrated at the slow response HAL management had to the situation.

[AV8OR]

Laughing their a** off would be more like it. :D

Unless you have insurance that says you can cancel at anytime for any reason, if you want your insurance to cover you, it is my understanding that you need to proceed as if the cruise were going to happen.

I still think it is of no value to be mad at the cruiseline because they haven't made a decision two days before the cruise sails. The storm could change course, and if they cancelled the cruise it would cost them a small fortune for no reason. Do what you like feel what you like, but it is kind of unfeeling to be worried about your screwed up vacation plans when the entire state of Florida is under a state of emergency. Some cruiselines may have something of a update on their website, but outside of 3 day cruises they haven't cancelled any 7 day sailings yet. The 7 day sailings and longer on all the cruiselines will most likely occur, the question is from where and when, but those cruises are not going to be cancelled IMHO. Therefore if you are on one of these you are going to have a difficult weekend, no doubt about it.;)

jc

The problem is that many passengers will make arrangements to arrive at their port of departure a day or 2 prior to the cruise. Under this scenario you would have folks proceeding with their plans to travel to Florida, with a significant hurricane bearing down on the state, because they based their decision on the information HAL was providing (i.e. the ship will be departing as scheduled). Then the confusion begins with the governor and NOAA asking people to avoid travel to Florida. Okay, makes sense to me...tourist unfamiliar with evacuation protocols would only get in the way and why would you want to put yourself in harms way? Then, the Coast Guard orders the closing of Port Everglades to inbound traffic. After obtaining all this information you contact your TA or HAL...HAL is still saying the ship will depart as scheduled. One starts to scratch their head at this. Other cruiselines cancel short cruises and change itineraries. HAL has put a link on it's webpage and sets up a hurricane hotline which has the same information for about 26 hours. This generates confusion, frustration, and in some cases, ill will towards HAL. Is it warranted? Yes and no. IMHO the problem lies with HAL's management. I have a friend that works for the line...apparently the brass at HAL was in conference for most of the day trying to come up with some contingency plans for the Zuiderdam. Now I'm not an expert in the cruise industry but, it seems that some high level contingency plans should already be in place for a situation like this. I agree, folks need to be aware of the meteorlogical conditions that exist in the tropics at this time of year and be prepared to adjust their plans accordingly. The cruise lines understandably cover themselves with disclaimers but this situation is a good example of what happens when a company's management fails to do proper planning and fails to provided the necessary and important information to it's employees and customers.

Okay, I'll stop trying to write a case study for the Harvard School of Business. As for folks not having any feelings for Florida, I would suggest you go over to the Holland America Roll Call Board and check out the Zuiderdam 9/4 sailing thread. You may want to retract that "unfeeling" remark after doing so.

[AV8OR]

"When in trouble
or in doubt
run in circles
cream and shout."
--Robert A. Heinlein

Cream???

[AV8OR]

I do feel really bad for all of you heading out this weekend. BUT, please don't be mad at HAL, I am sure they don't want to make plans too early, they hope more than each of you individually or collectively that they can sail, think of the lost revenue? One day off of a cruise, revised itinerary and a $400 per cabin credit would make me very happy. The 25% off future is nice too especially considering they are losing money over this situation that they have no control over. I am sure (well not sure because I never read all the fine print :o ) that they really aren't required to compensate anyone. Airlines suffer off schedule operations frequently due to weather and that's just a plane at a time with 200 or so people, we are talking a boatload of people, pun intended.


I do hope you are able to go if you want to, re-book if that is your desire, whatever you do, stay safe and know that those of us not departing this weekend will be thinking of you.

Don't know if it's an issue of folks being mad at HAL, I think it's more frustration. It was very difficult today for passengers and TAs to make an informed decision.

[Cruiseoften]

Just goes to prove that no one can out guess Mother Nature!

Booked with a reputable cruise line and armed with adequate insurance you have little to worry about. Disappointing as a cruise cancellation may be, would you not rather live to book another vacation?

[RevNeal]

AV8OR, keep reading. Twas a typo ... I left out the "S" on "SCREAM"
but ... then ... the context should have told you the meaning.
:D

[AV8OR]

AV8OR, keep reading. Twas a typo ... I left out the "S" on "SCREAM"
but ... then ... the context should have told you the meaning.
:D

Rev,

Yeah, I caught it when I finally got to the next page...can't help it...slow reader.

[EdwH]

Maybe we need a forum foum for weather conditions for this time of the year. HAL has no control of the weather and they are doing their best. Give them a break. They are doing their best. What would you do in their place.

[cruisinpaige]

Hi TT,
Storm is headed right for me:eek: . I know we are all going to miss meeting you in person, but I for one understand completely why you guys would need to back out of this one. I am hoping the storm continues to weaken. I still plan to go, barring anything catastrophic. We are here all battened down. Waiting is so stressful.
Hope to see you on another HAL cruise soon. Let us know when you re-book cuz we are all going to have refunds or disounts. You should start a "hurricane survivors" group cruise!!!!
Wish us luck! Good luck to you guys over there, too!
Paige

As many of you know I live in Port Charlotte and have terrible damage to my home. We had Emergency Management on and spoke about Charlotte county already live on our local channel. They are asking for no one to be on the roads from 8:00am-8:00 pm. They are going to have police (if possible) they said patroling to take care of this. How in the world can I get to Ft. Lauderdale. Plus I just came in from getting my nails done (why I don't know) and 75 is in grid lock. HAL please give us something.......This is not professtional, and not right. Good luck to all!

[cruisinpaige]

The problem is that many passengers will make arrangements to arrive at their port of departure a day or 2 prior to the cruise. Under this scenario you would have folks proceeding with their plans to travel to Florida, with a significant hurricane bearing down on the state, because they based their decision on the information HAL was providing (i.e. the ship will be departing as scheduled). Then the confusion begins with the governor and NOAA asking people to avoid travel to Florida. Okay, makes sense to me...tourist unfamiliar with evacuation protocols would only get in the way and why would you want to put yourself in harms way? Then, the Coast Guard orders the closing of Port Everglades to inbound traffic. After obtaining all this information you contact your TA or HAL...HAL is still saying the ship will depart as scheduled. One starts to scratch their head at this. Other cruiselines cancel short cruises and change itineraries. HAL has put a link on it's webpage and sets up a hurricane hotline which has the same information for about 26 hours. This generates confusion, frustration, and in some cases, ill will towards HAL. Is it warranted? Yes and no. IMHO the problem lies with HAL's management. I have a friend that works for the line...apparently the brass at HAL was in conference for most of the day trying to come up with some contingency plans for the Zuiderdam. Now I'm not an expert in the cruise industry but, it seems that some high level contingency plans should already be in place for a situation like this. I agree, folks need to be aware of the meteorlogical conditions that exist in the tropics at this time of year and be prepared to adjust their plans accordingly. The cruise lines understandably cover themselves with disclaimers but this situation is a good example of what happens when a company's management fails to do proper planning and fails to provided the necessary and important information to it's employees and customers.

Okay, I'll stop trying to write a case study for the Harvard School of Business. As for folks not having any feelings for Florida, I would suggest you go over to the Holland America Roll Call Board and check out the Zuiderdam 9/4 sailing thread. You may want to retract that "unfeeling" remark after doing so.
I agree that they should have had a plan in place before H season OR made one when the storm formed OR before they promised their update OR before the promised update became late...They did not do right by their guests who planned to come to FL early.

The compensation offered was pretty good, but not like the other lines.
Still, I am hoping for a great cruise! C y'all there.

[Lithium]

I find it funny that most of the people defending HAL in this situation are those that had nothing to do with the Sept 4th sailing. Maybe if they were actually in our place, they would feel different.

[xpcdoojk]

Sorry, you need to check the other forums here at CC the anger at HAL exists at RCI too. People who have a much anticipated vacation planned do not take well to anything that disrupts it. It is Friday morning and nobody yet knows exactly where it will hit. My point has been only that no cruiseline is willing to cancel a sailing in time to help someone that is leaving early for a trip. I personally, always leave early for a cruise, because I want to be ready for the contingency of airline nightmares. So if I was on the Zui, I would probably be dealing with trying to find an inland motel to stay at. There are far worse things than being in your home town wondering if your cruise is going to sail on schedule. Imagine if you were in Florida as everyone is evacuating, nightmare. Going on a message forum and telling everyone that you are not every sailing with a cruiseline again because they don't have a contingency plan for hurricane season is silly. The contingency plan is operating, right now. Could the plan be better? Sure. Think of all of the logistics that they are dealing with right now. Do they know if the airlines will be flying, hotels to put up passengers, or storm shelters to protect people. When the storm will hit, where, and how much damage will it cause. Heaven forbid but what if the storm intensifies and has a direct hit on the port, destroying infrastructure, knocking down power lines, and making the port completely unusable for a week. No one knows what is going to happen.

Here is the real kicker for me. People book these cruises, and they should be aware that it is hurricane season. If they are not aware, well they just got educated. Travelling in the tropics in hurricane season is always a risk. Ignoring the risk and and crying about it and blaming the cruiseline is not taking responsibility for your own decisions. I am sure the cruiselines will take care of everyone as best they can, but they are not omniscient.

jc

[Orcrone]

xpcdoojk,

Yesterday HAL had on their website that they would update by 10:00 PST. They're update was four hours late. I think they should have posted something sooner, even if it just said we're still working on it.

With that said, I do think they've handled it well and think that your post stated the case very well.

[spongerob]

Here is the real kicker for me. People book these cruises, and they should be aware that it is hurricane season. If they are not aware, well they just got educated. Travelling in the tropics in hurricane season is always a risk. Ignoring the risk and and crying about it and blaming the cruiseline is not taking responsibility for your own decisions. I am sure the cruiselines will take care of everyone as best they can, but they are not omniscient.

jc
Well said. Frustration is understandable; casting blame on those trying to do the best they can under difficult circumstances is not. I think it is better in this case to say nothing until a better picture emerges and decisions can be made. Releasing a statement that is speculative, then having to retract it is far worse.

People book cruises at this time of year because they are cheap. They are cheap for the reasons we are witnessing today, not because maybe the ocean will be a little wavy somewhere out in the Caribbean. All of the cruise lines are doing something in the way of compensation even though there is no requirement for them to do so. So, your vacation might be affected, big deal, that pales in comparison to the prospect of not having a home Monday morning.

[AV8OR]

Maybe we need a forum foum for weather conditions for this time of the year. HAL has no control of the weather and they are doing their best. Give them a break. They are doing their best. What would you do in their place.

As I stated earlier, I'm not an expert in this business but if I were responsible for making the decisions for HAL I would have been more proactive. Again, this would have allowed early arriving passengers to make an informed decision. Most organizations (FLL, Port Everglades, Broward County, RCI, Disney, Carnival etc.) that stood the chance of being impacted by this storm were much quicker in their decision making. For most of yesterday HAL was saying that the Zuiderdam would depart as scheduled which seemed impossible with the forecsted track of the storm and the closing of Port Everglades.

[sail7seas]

We just about always cruise the Caribbean during Hurricane Season.....which, of course, being June through November is a full six months of the year. This is the first year in MANY years that we did not book a Caribbean cruise for July/August/September and that is because we went on a fabulous Canada/New England Cruise and are booked for Caribbean in early October. We KNOW the risks. WE have NEVER had any cruise interruption, cancellation or shortening. We have been very lucky. But, to say we would feel differently if we were booked on tomorrow's Zuiderdam cruise is untrue. Because we cruise so much in summer, we acknowledge and accept that risk. We know the risk. If you did not, DO NOT BLAME HAL IMO

I am very, very sorry for those of you who will miss your cruise and endured a stressful day yesterday.

But, I feel VERY MUCH more for those who are staring at a massive hurricane bearing down on them and their loved ones. Peole who are still trying to recover from the havoc of Charley.

Simmer yourselves down IMO and start accepting some responsibility for booking during hurricane season WITHOUT accepting the RISK of doing so. I do not blame you for making such a booking. As I said, we do it year after year.

HAL, in my opinion, HAS GIVEN SO VERY MUCH MORE THAN THEY HAD TO. They did not have to give you diddly. They do not have to give rebates, shipboard credits, discounts......they did not have to do anything at all.

It is very good PR that they did and if you would start thinking clearly, you just might acknowledge they have treated you very, very well. HAL could easily have said "too bad....so sorry you will miss your cruise." They did not do that. They are showing IMO that your business matters to them, they care about your disappointment and they hope you will rebook with them.

I will rebook with them BECAUSE of how well they have treated those who are, today, very disappointed.

NOW.....WHY DON'T YOU SPEND SOME OF THE EMOTIONAL ENERGY ON PRAYING FOR PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES ARE AT RISK.

Have a Happy, SAFE Holiday Weekend.

[AV8OR]

Sorry, you need to check the other forums here at CC the anger at HAL exists at RCI too. People who have a much anticipated vacation planned do not take well to anything that disrupts it. It is Friday morning and nobody yet knows exactly where it will hit. My point has been only that no cruiseline is willing to cancel a sailing in time to help someone that is leaving early for a trip. I personally, always leave early for a cruise, because I want to be ready for the contingency of airline nightmares. So if I was on the Zui, I would probably be dealing with trying to find an inland motel to stay at. There are far worse things than being in your home town wondering if your cruise is going to sail on schedule. Imagine if you were in Florida as everyone is evacuating, nightmare. Going on a message forum and telling everyone that you are not every sailing with a cruiseline again because they don't have a contingency plan for hurricane season is silly. The contingency plan is operating, right now. Could the plan be better? Sure. Think of all of the logistics that they are dealing with right now. Do they know if the airlines will be flying, hotels to put up passengers, or storm shelters to protect people. When the storm will hit, where, and how much damage will it cause. Heaven forbid but what if the storm intensifies and has a direct hit on the port, destroying infrastructure, knocking down power lines, and making the port completely unusable for a week. No one knows what is going to happen.

Here is the real kicker for me. People book these cruises, and they should be aware that it is hurricane season. If they are not aware, well they just got educated. Travelling in the tropics in hurricane season is always a risk. Ignoring the risk and and crying about it and blaming the cruiseline is not taking responsibility for your own decisions. I am sure the cruiselines will take care of everyone as best they can, but they are not omniscient.

jc

Have to disagree with you on HAL's contingency planning for the Caribbean. Their own employees will admit to this since HAL does not have quite the presence in the Caribbean as say RCI or Carnival. Hence, they have difficulties in trying to deal with all the intangibles that come into play in the Caribbean. On the other hand, they will tell you that HAL's operations in Europe, Alaska and South America are second to none.

I too travel early and would be down in Ft. Lauderdale now but I made a personal decision to stay out of the path of a potential hurricane hit on the area. I thought going down and staying inland but a friend in central Florida, who survived Charley, suggested that I reconsider. If the aftermath is any thing like what we experienced with Charley, he said, you will not want to be here.

I believe most are aware of the hurricane potential when traveling the tropic this time of year. It was a constant topic of discussion on the Roll Call thread so I don't think it was ignored. There are many Floridians booked on this cruise as well. They have been very helpful to the rest of us in making our own contingency plans. I think HAL's offer to the 9/4 passengers is very generous (though I really do hope they provide one more concession and cancel the Dutch Night) and I have made arrangement to be on the ship this Sunday. Do I plan on crusing with HAL again? Sure...I can't wait to cruise on a ship that is Captained by a personal friend!

[jhannah]

Simmer yourselves down IMO and start accepting some responsibility for booking during hurricane season WITHOUT accepting the RISK of doing so.Amen and amen!

[doone]

I understand the frustration on this, but think of the people in Florida worried about loosing their homes, priceless photo's and, hopefully not, but their lives with this storm. I am sure they'd trade places with people worried about not being able to take their vacations. Let's have some compassion.

[xpcdoojk]

Have to disagree with you on HAL's contingency planning for the Caribbean. Their own employees will admit to this since HAL does not have quite the presence in the Caribbean as say RCI or Carnival. Hence, they have difficulties in trying to deal with all the intangibles that come into play in the Caribbean. On the other hand, they will tell you that HAL's operations in Europe, Alaska and South America are second to none.

I too travel early and would be down in Ft. Lauderdale now but I made a personal decision to stay out of the path of a potential hurricane hit on the area. I thought going down and staying inland but a friend in central Florida, who survived Charley, suggested that I reconsider. If the aftermath is any thing like what we experienced with Charley, he said, you will not want to be here.

I believe most are aware of the hurricane potential when traveling the tropic this time of year. It was a constant topic of discussion on the Roll Call thread so I don't think it was ignored. There are many Floridians booked on this cruise as well. They have been very helpful to the rest of us in making our own contingency plans. I think HAL's offer to the 9/4 passengers is very generous (though I really do hope they provide one more concession and cancel the Dutch Night) and I have made arrangement to be on the ship this Sunday. Do I plan on crusing with HAL again? Sure...I can't wait to cruise on a ship that is Captained by a personal friend!
Ok:rolleyes: I have heard employees admit to anything when they have an irrate customer talking to them. :D

I don't think you are the person who I am talking about though, because I saw how upset people were at HAL, and then claiming the other lines handle it so much better. Cause I have been reading the RCI forum and the people are saying the same silly thing about RCI and their customer service. Trust me a lot of people were going to be mad as heck at HAL or any cruiseline no matter what contingency plan they had! JMHO and YMMV.:D

jc

[AV8OR]

Ok:rolleyes: I have heard employees admit to anything when they have an irrate customer talking to them. :D

I don't think you are the person who I am talking about though, because I saw how upset people were at HAL, and then claiming the other lines handle it so much better. Cause I have been reading the RCI forum and the people are saying the same silly thing about RCI and their customer service. Trust me a lot of people were going to be mad as heck at HAL or any cruiseline no matter what contingency plan they had! JMHO and YMMV.:D

jc

I know JC, I'm trying to come at this from more of an QA/IVV/Process Improvement angle. I'm not refering to a CSR at HAL, this is someone I know personally. I've always felt that RCI's customer service has always gotten a bad rap. Okay, they have their momments but my overall experiences with RCI have been good.

I do feel for the HAL CSRs, IMO they've been put in a tough position by their management. Pushing information down through the ranks in a timely manner is a concept I've always promoted. Can it always be done? No, but not making not making a decision is still making a decision...this more often than not can be more costly.

[dakrewser]

I find it funny that most of the people defending HAL in this situation are those that had nothing to do with the Sept 4th sailing. Maybe if they were actually in our place, they would feel different.
And perhaps those who had hoped to sail on the 4th are having trouble viewing the situation objectively. I do understand the frustration, but I am trying to be objective. A highly emotional state is not a good time to make irrevocable decisions.

-dave

[dakrewser]

xpcdoojk,

Yesterday HAL had on their website that they would update by 10:00 PST. They're update was four hours late. I think they should have posted something sooner, even if it just said we're still working on it.

With that said, I do think they've handled it well and think that your post stated the case very well.
Actually, they did post to the web site almost on time (slightly delayed) but their web people mis-linked the update. It was only after I checked the HTML coding, and informed the webmaster of the problem (4 hours later) that a correction was made. Someone should have checked, though.

-dave

[sail7seas]

Lithium.....With all due respect and fully understanding you are greatly disappointed......


I sincerely hope this is the very worst thing you suffer during your lifetime. I do not know and I suppose it does not matter, but I am guessing you are in your late twenties or early thirties. I think once you pass the fifty or fifty age thing....you get a different perspective on what is really important in life. The small disappointments irritate and hurt us all, but we only assign that importance which they truly deserve. Even IF you wind up losing some money on this experience.....only assign that the importance it deserves in the whole scheme of life.

Hopefully, you will have many more wonderful cruises during your life.

Hopefully, those facing this Hurricane also will survive to have many more wonderful cruises. Hopefully their homes will not be blown out from under them. Their business will survive. Their jobs will continue.
You get my point I am sure.

[TampaMike]

I would think HAL's number one priortity is with the current Zuiderdam voyage. First, the safety of the passengers, crew and ship. Next, where and when can the ship be ported to terminate the voyage safely, and with the least impact to the current passengers. Last, how can this be done with also having the lesser impact on the next voyage and inbound passengers. Sorry folks wainting in the wings, but I am being real.

Bottom line is.... safety first. And first for those AT SEA with a catastrophy in the wings...that is likely taking attention away from the concerns of inbound passengers. This storm is huge. And only 2 hours before Charley was expect to destroy my home..it made a turn, and I did not even see any rain. ONLY 2 HOURS in judgement caused people a few miles south of me their lives, their homes, schools and businesses. Now, is a vacation really that important?

Let's be real. We have a choice not to put ourselves in harms way...we do not need HAL to dictate to us whether we should or should not enter an area that will likely be described with adjectives such as disaster, emergency, dire and tragic. If you want to take that risk, do not expect a cruise line to condone those actions, or even encourage it. If you want to take that chance, and not be inconvenianced, I would say, EXPECT inconveniance, from the airlines, the water company, the electrical company, the street lights, the fuel availablility, and , oh yeah, the cruise lines.

Florida (and Georgia) are under a State of EMERGENCY. Lives & property are the priorties here. If you chose not to understand the magnitude of that, then you will be frustrated pointing fingers as to why you are feeling compromised. We who live here don't know by the hour if this storm will detroy our homes. I cannot imagine a cruise line has better or more timely information to determine if their flights and itinerary will be impacted. I do not think the cruise lines have a direct line to the National Hurricane Center or the Governor's Chambers.

I knew a man who ran a resort on Montserrat in the 90s, when the volcano errupted. He told me he recieved many angry letters from people as to why he did not answer the phone when they tried to get information on how the volcano would impact to their upcoming vacation. His reply to me was that the phone had burned with the resort.

[Lithium]

Lithium.....With all due respect and fully understanding you are greatly disappointed......


I sincerely hope this is the very worst thing you suffer during your lifetime. I do not know and I suppose it does not matter, but I am guessing you are in your late twenties or early thirties. I think once you pass the fifty or fifty age thing....you get a different perspective on what is really important in life. The small disappointments irritate and hurt us all, but we only assign that importance which they truly deserve. Even IF you wind up losing some money on this experience.....only assign that the importance it deserves in the whole scheme of life.

Hopefully, you will have many more wonderful cruises during your life.

Hopefully, those facing this Hurricane also will survive to have many more wonderful cruises. Hopefully their homes will not be blown out from under them. Their business will survive. Their jobs will continue.
You get my point I am sure.With all due respect, please don't presume you know anything about me. And please don't presume you know anything about what I have and have not suffered in my life. And please don't presume that money is my main concern, because it has nothing to do with it. Maybe you should realize with your great perspective that what is important to you is not what is important to me. There is more riding on this than you could ever imagine. You don't know the first thing about me.

I just want to get one thing straight. As I have stated in other threads, the main importance and impact here are the people in Florida. They are the main concern, and I hope all is well with them. BUT, since this isn't a message board dedicated to Florida and people that suffer in hurricanes, and since this IS a message board dedicated to cruising, then I find nothing wrong about posting frustrations and questions about what is going on with the CRUISE.

Now to address those that say "you booked in hurricane season blah blah blah", now by that logic, couldn't you just say to people in Florida: "well, you live in a hurricane state by your choice so deal with it?" No, that is not my attitude, and it shouldn't be your attitude either that this is somehow our fault because we booked during hurricane season. No one has said this is HALs fault either. What they said was HAL could have dealt with it better, and there is no disputing that fact IMHO.

[dakrewser]

There is more riding on this than you could ever imagine. You don't know the first thing about me.
No, all we can go by is what you post, so help us to understand you better. Ignore, for now, the people in Florida. Consider, instead, those already on the Zuiderdam - will you at least concede that they have a higher priority than you?

-dave

[dst]

Should we even mention that cruises this time of year are cheaper than other times because of the fact that it is Hurricane Season. If you had a good TA they would give you the whole picture and inform you of this.

Sail; well said. Hopefully the people of Florida will get lucky and this will miss them.......I'll be praying

[Lithium]

No, all we can go by is what you post, so help us to understand you better. Ignore, for now, the people in Florida. Consider, instead, those already on the Zuiderdam - will you at least concede that they have a higher priority than you?

-daveI give up, some of you are missing the whole point of why we were frustrated. I never said I have highest priority and I don't feel that I owe you anything about who I am and what is riding on this.

You guys should go back and read that people were frustrated because they thought HAL handled it in a bad way...thats it!!!!! No one is taking away from the importance of those that live in Florida, no one is saying they have higher priority, no one has said this is all HALs fault. The whole point was that HAL could have handled things better, like some of the other cruise lines. end of story.

[doone]

Ok, I am interested, what did other cruise lines do that HAL didn't? I truly would like to know so I can understand your point of view.

Its always hard to try to understand something when we are only fed little tid bits.

[AV8OR]

Ok, I am interested, what did other cruise lines do that HAL didn't? I truly would like to know so I can understand your point of view.

Its always hard to try to understand something when we are only fed little tid bits.

Doone,

If you take a look at some of my previous posts you may get a little better picture. I think the basic problem was HAL staying with it's original schedule while other organizations (airport, airlines, ports, cruise lines) made changes that would suggest that HAL could not meet it's original departure date and time. This frustrated passengers and TAs alike. My TA, based in Florida, said HAL was the most difficult to deal with yesterday basically because they were slow in their decision making. If you check the periodic Frances update here on Cruise Critic you will notice that the article uses the term "oddly vague" when describing HAL's plans to bring the Zuiderdam into Port Everglades. I believe most folks understand that hurricanes are very unpredictable beasts even with the technology and forecasting technique that are available today...but, living in the information age has made most of us a little less patient at times like this (i.e. we expect accurate info now). Hope this helps.

Chuck

[Lithium]

Its 24 hours before we are supposed to fly into Florida, Port Everglades is already closed, flight has already been canceled, its obvious that there is no way they are going to get in Saturday, 80% of other cruise lines have posted on their website revised itineraries leaving monday or refunds, some cruise lines are calling everyone, and we call HAL and they say "Everything is a go for Saturday, no change, but we will update or website at 10:00PST." 10:00PST comes and goes, we call HAL, no word yet, everything is a go, they now have announced the airport is closed for friday and saturday. We call HAL, no plans have changed, still leaving Saturday. I mean, how stupid do they think we are? The forecast has the hurricane hitting Florida on Saturday and they are still telling us everything is a go. If safety were their main concern (which its not, I am convinced that money is), they should have made plans before all these events happened, or at least in a timely manner once they happened like most other lines did. It was obvious HAL had no plan in place and had to have the big meeting all day Thursday to decide what to do. They were too worried about the money to make the decision earlier. Most other lines stepped up to the plate, HAL didn't until they figured out the best solution to cost them the least amount of money. I know I will probably get flammed for that statement, but please explain to me then why HAL was so far behind everybody else in determing what to do? And don't give me the excuse that they didn't know what the storm was going to do, neither did any other cruise line.

[jhannah]

Ok, I am interested, what did other cruise lines do that HAL didn't?The main thing I saw is that their offerings for cancellation, credit, etc. were posted on their websites hours before HAL's was. Dakrewster's explanation notwithstanding, HAL was terribly late in getting word out to anxious folks who were affected. Now, that being said, this whole thing is an issue that can't be rehearsed and fine-tuned in advance. Sure, cruise lines can have scenarios in place for such occurrences ... but each such storm stands on its own with its unique set of circumstances. I can understand their waiting until they absolutely had to make an announcement to maximize the situation's handling and minimize their financial losses. I cannot fault them for this. The website thing was apparently a technical glitch.

[sail7seas]

Lithium.....With all due respect and fully understanding you are greatly disappointed......


I sincerely hope this is the very worst thing you suffer during your lifetime. I do not know and I suppose it does not matter, but I am guessing you are in your late twenties or early thirties. I think once you pass the fifty or fifty age thing....you get a different perspective on what is really important in life. The small disappointments irritate and hurt us all, but we only assign that importance which they truly deserve. Even IF you wind up losing some money on this experience.....only assign that the importance it deserves in the whole scheme of life.

Hopefully, you will have many more wonderful cruises during your life.

Hopefully, those facing this Hurricane also will survive to have many more wonderful cruises. Hopefully their homes will not be blown out from under them. Their business will survive. Their jobs will continue.
You get my point I am sure.
__________________






Where did I presume anything?

I specifically said "guessing".

And I restate that I sincerely hope for you that this is the very worst disappointed you ever suffer during your lifetime.

Shall I now PRESUME you will not calm down enough and think rationally enough to 'GET IT'?

I still guess you are about the age I previously stated and I still wish you many more happy cruises.

[Lithium]

Lithium.....With all due respect and fully understanding you are greatly disappointed......


I sincerely hope this is the very worst thing you suffer during your lifetime. I do not know and I suppose it does not matter, but I am guessing you are in your late twenties or early thirties. I think once you pass the fifty or fifty age thing....you get a different perspective on what is really important in life. The small disappointments irritate and hurt us all, but we only assign that importance which they truly deserve. Even IF you wind up losing some money on this experience.....only assign that the importance it deserves in the whole scheme of life.

Hopefully, you will have many more wonderful cruises during your life.

Hopefully, those facing this Hurricane also will survive to have many more wonderful cruises. Hopefully their homes will not be blown out from under them. Their business will survive. Their jobs will continue.
You get my point I am sure.
__________________






Where did I presume anything?

I specifically said "guessing".

And I restate that I sincerely hope for you that this is the very worst disappointed you ever suffer during your lifetime.

Shall I now PRESUME you will not calm down enough and think rationally enough to 'GET IT'?

I still guess you are about the age I previously stated and I still wish you many more happy cruises.You presumed that given my age (your guess), I don't know what is important in life unlike you that apparently does. You presumed that someone only 50 years old or older can know what is important in life. Maybe thats true in your case, but certainly not all. You also presumed that money is what I was worried about. And then you try to tell me what my value system should be and what I should put importance on and what I shouldn't. For as much as you can guess that I am in my late 20's, I certainly can guess you are not by your effort to "teach" (read lecture) me what your value system is and what level of importance I should assign things.

Since you brought it up, here is my list of important things in life so there is no need to presume, let me know how it coincides with yours even though you are twice me age (still your guess):

1. Christ - and all the goes along with that (obedience, righteousness, charity, faith, the list goes on and on)

2. My wife - keeping her happy all the time and having a loving/growing relationship with her

3. Family - good relations, willingness to help at any time, being there...children will go here in about 7 months

4 - Job - certainly necessary to back up number 2 ;-)

Beyond that, most stuff in my life only effects day to day things as it has no bearing on my eternal perspective.

I do not want to argue back and forth with you, it is not my intention and it is not the point of this thread. I respect you as a person and hope I haven't offended you or anyone else on this board for that matter. If I have, then I apologize, it never was my intention. When people start talking directly to me, I will respond. Especially if my view on things is different than theirs. You can't expect to make a post directly aimed at someone with certain implications (or presumptions) and not expect them to reply. so peace, I respect you as a person and also wish you many more happy cruises. :)

BTW, there is no need to guess my age, its posted in my profile.

[doone]

To all who answered my question, thank you, yes that does help me to understand a bit more. I just felt like alot of major points were left to assume, which I try not to do. Now its a bit clearer.

With all due respect to everyone here, I have to say, for me, this is one of the major reasons I do not sail the caribbean during hurricane season.

[xpcdoojk]

You know if I want real, hard, and timely information the last place I look for it is somebodies web page. If I am going to start changing my flight plans, I am going to talk to someone. Other than not knowing something which is unknowable how did this lack of information on the web page change anything. Either you could or could not get on your plane based on the planes viability. So what if the web page said it is on schedule when you know because of the airports being closed that it is not possible for you to be on it. Again, how did this actually affect you in anyway, except emotionally. Which is my point.

jc

BTW I do understand your unhappiness and needing to vent

[Lithium]

You know if I want real, hard, and timely information the last place I look for it is somebodies web page. If I am going to start changing my flight plans, I am going to talk to someone. Other than not knowing something which is unknowable how did this lack of information on the web page change anything. Either you could or could not get on your plane based on the planes viability. So what if the web page said it is on schedule when you know because of the airports being closed that it is not possible for you to be on it. Again, how did this actually affect you in anyway, except emotionally. Which is my point.

jc

BTW I do understand your unhappiness and needing to ventBetter read again, we both called and checked webpage. In fact, when I called that last time, they told me to check the web page for the latest information...LOL. Its effects is we have to know what HAL plans to do in order for our plans to change. Should I change my plane flight to another city? Should I try and rebook on Sunday? If they aren't timely, the Sunday flight could easily sell out and I am left high and dry. Not to mention all the plans that go along with taking care of things before I leave, for instance jobs (when am I leaving, what about next week), school (need to make sure everything is in place here), pets (have to change all the plans revolving around this and let everyone know involved as plans change), house (house sitters need to know when to come, what to expect) etc. The fact is, for us to make any adjustments to our schedule, we absolutely HAVE to know what HAL is going to do. Otherwise all of the adjustments are made in vain and we are just second guessing the cruise line.

We are probably never going to agree on this, which is fine. We each have our own viewpoint on the situation. To each his own. I think this thread should probably just die a quick death.

[stillfrantic]

Lithium: I just posted it on the update thread. I called my ariline and was told FLL is closed until Monday, September 6. Not a case of one airline not flying in; they said the airport is physically closed until Monday.:(

[jhannah]

I figured that would happen, being as how slow this storm is moving. I can hardly imagine what a mess it's going to be getting back in the groove once it reopens.

[gliles]

Lithium: I just posted it on the update thread. I called my ariline and was told FLL is closed until Monday, September 6. Not a case of one airline not flying in; they said the airport is physically closed until Monday
AA is flying into FLL on Sunday, the airport isn't closed. Perhaps your airline (UA) is booked up or has canceled their flights. Check AA.com, there are still even seats available.

[stillfrantic]

I called back to check for you. Got a different United operator. Nope, no closing of the airport!!!! So sorry to scare you. Errrrr....this is hard to get organized.:eek:

[gliles]

S7S -

Wow, amazing...Can you guess my age ;)

I agree 100% with you, I know people think that just because we aren't going this weekend, we aren't sympathetic but as I posted before, no one but no one wants these cruises to go off as planned more than the individual cruise lines. They owe nothing as it is an act of God.

Many of you are upset because you are flying in early, why? Because you are concerned about the airline that will get you there so obviously you (and most of us) are worried about their schedules, well this schedule disruption is more than any airline, cruiseline, freighter, bus, and so on can handle without some glitches.

Yes, I am very sorry for you and I would be upset if it were me but I am being 100% honest with you when I say that shortening the trip and giving me $400 shipboard credit, among other things, would make me very happy if I were going. I have cruised many times in the summer because the rates are low, we are booked in October so we are at risk too but that is the price I pay (pun intended) for the risk I am taking.

I hope it all works out for you and you have a wonderful time.

Stop and think about the poor people in Florida and think about the cost to the cruise lines for all the compensation they are offering when it isn't their fault. Think about the cost to repair HMC, look at the bigger picture. Think about all this while you are sitting on the deck by the pool sipping a frozen adult beverage!

Bon Voyage!

[gliles]

I called back to check for you. Got a different United operator. Nope, no closing of the airport!!!! So sorry to scare you. Errrrr....this is hard to get organized
Still Frantic?

I hope all goes well and you have a great time. I will be at work next week :(

[sail7seas]

Gretchen.....I'm afraid I will 'retire' while I am ahead :) with the age guessing thing.


Guessing some people's age by the things they post is easier for some than others. I was able to make a guess that seems to be relatively close for Lithium based upon what he wrote and how he wrote it.

I have no special talent in that regard, I assure you. :D

[DFD1]

This is difficult stuff ! Think of all the passengers who don't have this forum on which to vent and who are pulling their hair out trying to get information and figure out what to do about their travel plans. My heart goes out to each of you. Sadly, we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes things go wrong and when they do our character is tested in ways we never expected.

Those with the most serious frustration must be the ones waiting to see if they have a home after this storm has passed; or if loved ones are safe; or if their business is still there; or if they still have a job or a way to make a living.

It's hard, but this is a good time try and keep things in perspective.

[gliles]

S7S aka Chicken...alright. I thought it was funny that he didn't want to say then finally referred you to his profile and you were right on the money! If you could guess weight as well as you can guess ages, you could get a job at the fair :D

[sail7seas]

:) Gretchen........ :)



Job at the Fair :D

[stillfrantic]

S7S....a CARNIE!! Too funny:D

[tommy]

Lithium

I feel sorry for you not only for having your cruise delayed but also for trying to get thru to some people on these boards who think they are always right and that thier opinions are more important than anyone else God forbid you disagree with them

They have been hammering you worse than Frances

Deb

[sail7seas]

Deb.....Hi.



I do not ever consider my opinion to be any more important than anyone else's. I also do not ever consider it of less value than anyone else's.

I am never a name caller.

I do not always agree. How boring would it be if we all always thought exactly the same way about everything?

The purpose of these boards is for each of us to share info and express our opinions.....

Each of us.

[gliles]

Deb...err..Tommy? -

I don't think anyone hammered anyone, what am I missing?

[tommy]

The poor guy was expressing his opinion and now he probably feels worse than he did before Cut the guy a break and go pick on someone else

Deb

[gliles]

I agree 100% with you, I know people think that just because we aren't going this weekend, we aren't sympathetic but as I posted before, no one but no one wants these cruises to go off as planned more than the individual cruise lines. They owe nothing as it is an act of God.

Many of you are upset because you are flying in early, why? Because you are concerned about the airline that will get you there so obviously you (and most of us) are worried about their schedules, well this schedule disruption is more than any airline, cruiseline, freighter, bus, and so on can handle without some glitches.

Yes, I am very sorry for you and I would be upset if it were me but I am being 100% honest with you when I say that shortening the trip and giving me $400 shipboard credit, among other things, would make me very happy if I were going. I have cruised many times in the summer because the rates are low, we are booked in October so we are at risk too but that is the price I pay (pun intended) for the risk I am taking.

I hope it all works out for you and you have a wonderful time.

Stop and think about the poor people in Florida and think about the cost to the cruise lines for all the compensation they are offering when it isn't their fault. Think about the cost to repair HMC, look at the bigger picture. Think about all this while you are sitting on the deck by the pool sipping a frozen adult beverage!

In what way was I picking on him?

[tommy]

I give up!

[AV8OR]

You know if I want real, hard, and timely information the last place I look for it is somebodies web page. If I am going to start changing my flight plans, I am going to talk to someone. Other than not knowing something which is unknowable how did this lack of information on the web page change anything. Either you could or could not get on your plane based on the planes viability. So what if the web page said it is on schedule when you know because of the airports being closed that it is not possible for you to be on it. Again, how did this actually affect you in anyway, except emotionally. Which is my point.

jc

BTW I do understand your unhappiness and needing to vent

Hey JC,

It wasn't just the webpage, the hotline and the CSRs were not provided the updated info until late in the day. If the webmaster made a mistake updating the webpage then the same person must have been responsible for the hotline cause it was updated at about the same time the webpage was. Apparently HAL's management was in conference on this (what to do with the Zuiderdam) for a very long period yesterday. Most organizations will do a "lessons learned" at some point in time to determine how they can better handle the challenges that confront their business. HAL will probably go through this exercise and maybe approach these situations differently in the future.

With the air travel issue I think everyone needs to remember that this is a holiday weekend...combine that with the chaos that Frances created makes it a bit more difficult to alter travel arrangements. Not too difficult in my case but I would assume it was a bit more problematic for folks traveling from areas of the country that have fewer air options to Florida.

Chuck

[gliles]

With the air travel issue I think everyone needs to remember that this is a holiday weekend...combine that with the chaos that Frances created makes it a bit more difficult to alter travel arrangements.
You are exactly right, like the perfect storm. I am sure they didn't know how to handle 2 such events so close together either still reeling from Charley. I think they are doing the best they can under the circumstances but yes, I'm sure it will be a long lesson's learned meeting when it is all over and hopefully they will take away some lessons that will help them in the future.

Be safe everyone.

[AV8OR]

You are exactly right, like the perfect storm. I am sure they didn't know how to handle 2 such events so close together either still reeling from Charley. I think they are doing the best they can under the circumstances but yes, I'm sure it will be a long lesson's learned meeting when it is all over and hopefully they will take away some lessons that will help them in the future.

Be safe everyone.

Most successful organizations will go through this exercise periodically or after a significant event. It's a very effective tool for staying competitive.

Chuck

[Lithium]

Apparently its some joke or some sort of insult that I am 27. I don't get it. Oh well. :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

Lithium,

I'm so sorry that your cruise has been disrupted / cancelled / put off (I don't know which option you've chosen). When stuff like this happens it's never fun. Likewise, when HAL is slow in making up its mind and publishing its decisions that can be VERY VERY upsetting. As I think I've seen pointed out here, HALHQ is located in Seattle -- so, when it's 9 am in Ft. Lauderdale it's only 6 am at HQ. This isn't an excuse for them not being able to make a decision quickly, and get the word out to all those people who need to know ... but it does help explain why they were slower than most other lines.

I know this is not at all comforting, but it's simply the truth.

Please know that I sympathize entirely with your plight. I -- and several other CC regulars -- have had cruises either canceled or severely effected by weather or technical difficulties. It's NEVER fun, and the compensation offered (while helpful and appreciated) never quite makes up for the dashed plans.

God bless you and take care!

[Lithium]

Revneal, thank you so much for your comments. You summed up the point of this whole thread. Its nice when someone understands :D .

[gliles]

Most successful organizations will go through this exercise periodically or after a significant event. It's a very effective tool for staying competitive.
Believe me, I know. I have been through many sessions!

[AV8OR]

In what way was I picking on him?

Getchen,

Okay, I'll take a crack at this one. One of the things that is probably getting the 9/4 folks upset is the constant reference to them not considering the situation confronting the folks in Florida. Now, I know you've visited our roll call thread and if you've read through all of it you know this is not the case. As I understand it, these forums are in place to discuss all relevent cruising issues...the good and the not so good. In this case, some were using it to discuss the not so good. During stressful times it is inevitable that some will be more emotional and lose some objectivity while expressing an opinion. Usually, that is not a good time to make assumptions about someone whom one knows nothing about, this just make the situation worse instead of defusing it. Now, I'm not saying that you specifically did this but I think there are several examples of this occuring during this thread. It's been my experience that you can handle no 2 people the same. It's always wise to observe, evaluate, ask the proper questions and consider your audience before formulating and stating an opinion. I tasted my foot many times before adopting this approach (Yuck!).

This is a matter where all parties (cruise lines and passengers) need to look at the situation and figure out how they can do things better. Kinda like everyday life wouldn't you say?

Well, don't know if this helps...just hope it motivates folks to stop and think for a few moments before responding.

Chuck

[tammar]

Are all of you kidding? Give me a break. This is not a message board about the people in harms way in Florida. Any decent human being is concerned about a persons home, life, etc. We all do not want dissater for anyone. Not anyone.

This is a message board about getting info on a cruise. Info about a cruise. And info about the cruise you have saved all year for.

No one in their right mind would want anyone else to suffer. But face it, this is a cruise message board. We wanted current cruise info. We did not get it. Stop putting the poor people in Florida in the way. There are other message boards for that. Trust me, we care, but here, we just want to know about whether our families and friends would be put in harms way, because the lack of info from Hal.

How dare some of you suggest, that because others were concerned about their cruise, that they were unconcerned about the people in Florida.

Talk about getting off the subject. Face Hal didn't deliver. Many people have to stress over the last few days, that didn't need to, if the right info was handed to them.

This was new for HAl. They did not handle it very well. I know they read this board.

Hopefully they will learn and do better next time.

[dakrewser]

I feel sorry for you not only for having your cruise delayed but also for trying to get thru to some people on these boards who think they are always right and that thier opinions are more important than anyone else God forbid you disagree with them
If I didn't think my opinion was right, then I wouldn't hold that opinion. If someone else's opinion differs from mine, then we can each present facts to try to come to an agreement - or continue to disagree. Doesn't actually matter to me either way, so long as the final point I reach is something I can believe is true and real.

How many peopel do you know who present opinions, but don't believe they are right?

-dave

[kytykat]

Sitting here reading the postings, I see two sides. I live in Florida and I feel for people. Yet, I see the other side of those of us planning on the cruise. I understand full well these hurricanes, having lived in Florida for 24 years. My frustration falls with the fact that I cannot get a straight answer from Holland. I did much preparation for this vacation. I'd like to know my options. I don't like taking a week off work to sit home. Just today I called Holland, due to their change to an 11:30 p.m. departure, which in my book now makes this a five day cruise. I really don't count 30 minutes as a day. I got two different answers. One is they're still leaving at 8:00, the other was 11:30. The storm has decreased drastically in intensity now. Also, it is assumed to be heading north of the port. To the south of the storm will no be hard hit, the north will. My frustration lies with the feeling that HAL is definitely getting their money out of us. $200 pp credit is fine. But we are losing two days. I think they're saving more than $200 pp on their food alone. And I also have much frustration when I go to the web site and am given a time to check back, and nothing changes. Now they are wasting more of my time. It's at least a 24 hour time span before they change the web site or the message with the phone #. I could have been out of town by now going elsewhere for a vacation. I decided to stay with the cruise, but then they change it to 11:30 late today. So my clock is ticking down. By the time they decided this late in the day, it was too late for me to change the plans. And I really enjoy (sarcasm) the rudeness I was treated with when I first called. Apparently if they leave at 11:30 p.m., we should get our luggage around 1:00 a.m. They can't even say when we can board the ship. So I do feel for those people being hit by the storm. The same as I would feel bad if I were flying to California. And I would be upset if I was going to California for a vacation and I felt I was being ripped off and was getting treated with disprespect. I really hope they treat their guests with extra kindness on the ship. And I hope in the future they will work harder on keeping their guests provided with more current information and not empty promises of such.

[ekerr19]

Are all of you kidding? Give me a break. This is not a message board about the people in harms way in Florida. Any decent human being is concerned about a persons home, life, etc. We all do not want dissater for anyone. Not anyone.

This is a message board about getting info on a cruise. Info about a cruise. And info about the cruise you have saved all year for.

No one in their right mind would want anyone else to suffer. But face it, this is a cruise message board. We wanted current cruise info. We did not get it. Stop putting the poor people in Florida in the way. There are other message boards for that. Trust me, we care, but here, we just want to know about whether our families and friends would be put in harms way, because the lack of info from Hal.

How dare some of you suggest, that because others were concerned about their cruise, that they were unconcerned about the people in Florida.

Talk about getting off the subject. Face Hal didn't deliver. Many people have to stress over the last few days, that didn't need to, if the right info was handed to them.

This was new for HAl. They did not handle it very well. I know they read this board.

Hopefully they will learn and do better next time.
Sorry, but get over it already. It is an act of nature, out of HAL's control.. why hold them "personally" responsible?? It doesn't even comapre with reality... :confused:

[AV8OR]

Sorry, but get over it already. It is an act of nature, out of HAL's control.. why hold them "personally" responsible?? It doesn't even comapre with reality... :confused:

Ekerr19,

I don't think it's reasonable to hold HAL responsible for the weather but they should be held responsible for the things they do have control over. I believe this was the original premise of the thread.

Chuck

[xpcdoojk]

Well if HAL just hired all of the smart people here that know exactly how to run a cruiseline during a hurricane, then we wouldn't have needed this thread.:rolleyes:

It is a very ego-centric point of view, but at least it is consistent.:D

Enjoy your frustration, build it up to a full blown panic attack in the end what happens is what will happen. I still don't think anyone knows exactly what is going to happen, but be sure to take no responsibility and blame someone, HAL, me, the message forum, the internet, the airlines, NOAA, and anyone else you can think of.

jc

[stillfrantic]

jc, you seem to be the one who keeps coming back to this. All the people actually involved in the cruise have gone on to either pack or live their lives. I don't think anyone who is actually on the cruise has vented on this thread in a couple of days.

[ryansmemom]

I have hesitated and hesitated about joining this discussion. I just want to say this. We live in such troublesome times. We are all so stressed out and so traumatised by things that are out of our control like terrorists and global events that may change our lives and have changed our lives. We all live in a state of constant anxiety to some degree.

This makes new unknowns difficult to handle and stressful. We shrinks call it displacement. Some of you may not like this analysis or shrink talk, call it psychobabble if you must. But folks, use it to be more patient with each other. Instead of judging the priority of the issue, people in Florida vs people going on a cruise, just listen to their feelings. This is happening to them. They are stressed out. They are struggling with their feelings of frustration and loss. This is what crisis intervention is all about. And who are we to judge the content of another's crisis. I have seen people for whom a crisis is forgetting their appointment time. For them it is a crisis.

Let's try just accepting each other and listening to our fellow cruisers in their time of need. That is why they are posting.

Linda

[gliles]

Usually, that is not a good time to make assumptions about someone whom one knows nothing about, this just make the situation worse instead of defusing it. Now, I'm not saying that you specifically did this...
Chuck -

Right, I did not and would not. I added a remark about feeling for the people in Florida and maybe that didn't belong here but I guess the main point I have is that I personally feel that HAL is doing the best they can under the dreadful circumstances. I hate to see people get so upset over something no one has any control over.

I understand that when situations like this occur, it is terribly hard for the cruiselines, airlines, hotels, etc. to handle everything flawlessly. I work for AA and did so on 9/11, I know. Obviously this doesn't compare to that but there were many people very upset with the way things were handled. And as an Airline that has been in business for 75+ years, there has always been adverse weather and we do the best we can but even after 75 years, we could do better and customers tell us so.

I didn't mean to offend anyone and I sincerely apologize if I did. Again, I hope everything works out and those who still want to go, are able to and have a great time.

[AV8OR]

Chuck -

Right, I did not and would not. I added a remark about feeling for the people in Florida and maybe that didn't belong here but I guess the main point I have is that I personally feel that HAL is doing the best they can under the dreadful circumstances. I hate to see people get so upset over something no one has any control over.

I understand that when situations like this occur, it is terribly hard for the cruiselines, airlines, hotels, etc. to handle everything flawlessly. I work for AA and did so on 9/11, I know. Obviously this doesn't compare to that but there were many people very upset with the way things were handled. And as an Airline that has been in business for 75+ years, there has always been adverse weather and we do the best we can but even after 75 years, we could do better and customers tell us so.

I didn't mean to offend anyone and I sincerely apologize if I did. Again, I hope everything works out and those who still want to go, are able to and have a great time.

Gretchen,

I'm a general aviation pilot myself and I'm well aware of how weather, especially severe weather, impacts flight operations. It always amazes me how the airlines are able to coordinate flights when severe weather is an issue. Personally, I'm a fair weather pilot which means that I stay on the ground before bad weather has a chance to get close (what's the old saying...better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you were down here).
With that being said I've decided to opt out of this weekend's cruise. The weather situation has finally gotten beyond my comfort zone and I've decided to try and do something else or just go to work next week. Will I give HAL another try? Sure. I have a friend that works for the line and I look forward to cruising with him in the future. Do I think HAL needs to make some changes in the way they provide information to their employees and customers? Yes, but that can be said for many organizations. Like I said, you have to be willing to change to be competitive.

Chuck

[dakrewser]

Now they are wasting more of my time. It's at least a 24 hour time span before they change the web site or the message with the phone #. I could have been out of town by now going elsewhere for a vacation. I decided to stay with the cruise, but then they change it to 11:30 late today. So my clock is ticking down. By the time they decided this late in the day, it was too late for me to change the plans. And I really enjoy (sarcasm) the rudeness I was treated with when I first called. Apparently if they leave at 11:30 p.m., we should get our luggage around 1:00 a.m. They can't even say when we can board the ship.
No, they can't say when you can board. Because they don't know what time it will dock. But if you can guarantee them a time when the winds will have died down enough for them to dock, I'm sure they can tell you what time you can board.

As to the people you spoke to on the phone, well, imagine if every time you hung up your phone it immediately rang again with someone a)irate that they were on hold, b) angry that their plans had to change and c) beside themselves because HAL can't guarantee the speed and direction of the biggest storm to hit Florida in a dozen years.

They offered you a full refund, why didn't you take it?

[Krazy Kruizers]

The news stations are now saying that at least 459,000 people in various parts of Florida are without power.

Not sounding good.

If the ship were to dock tomorrow sometime, people may not be able to get planes out, some hotels may not be able to open due to the power outages, some workers may not get to the hotels or the airports because they may be dealing with problems at their own homes.

[Sunviking]

We decided to cancel our cruise on the Z as soon as we were offered the opportunity to do so and I'm so glad we did because I couldn't stand to still be worried about whether we would go or how we'd get to Florida. As far as JC, whoever you are, implying that we were petty to be worried about our vacation, nothing I could do here in VA (other than perhaps pray) would have any effect on whether Frances impacts FL or how much damage is done. My worrying about money we invested in our vacation which we had to plan for and arrange to take off for doesn't impact the good people of Florida or mean that I feel any less for what they will experience. I believe the cruise lines (all of them) could be a little more proactive in keeping people informed. Last night on the ABC Evening News they spoke with a young couple from southern California who were staying in a shelter because the cruise they had flown in for had been canceled. They were flying in early and were being told that the ship would sail when they had to leave home. Upon arrival in Florida they found their hotel had been evacuated, the ship wasn't going and they had no place to go but a shelter in a local high school. Having extraneous people in the shelters doesn't help Floridians and it would seem that someone at whatever cruise line they were sailing on could have let them know not to come.

I may be wrong but I seem to remember when Andrew hit the Miami area, at least one of the cruise lines (maybeRCCL?) canceled the next cruise and used ships to shelter employees in the area whose homes had been destroyed or damaged. I thought that was a great thing to do and I think it was probably worth untold amounts of good PR. Maybe it's time for the cruise lines to think about doing something like that now.

[AV8OR]

The news stations are now saying that at least 459,000 people in various parts of Florida are without power.

Not sounding good.

If the ship were to dock tomorrow sometime, people may not be able to get planes out, some hotels may not be able to open due to the power outages, some workers may not get to the hotels or the airports because they may be dealing with problems at their own homes.

Frances has also stalled over the Florida coast...sounding even worse! I decided to bag the cruise this weekend. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Florida is in for a very rough couple of days and there will be little, if any, traffic (air, sea and land) into the state tomorrow. Folks that are currently on the Z should be safe but you have to wonder when and where they will be getting off the ship.

[Nliedel]

I have just read this thread very carefully, twice and I am pretty bothered. The OP was upset because they wanted current information. They FELT they were not getting it.. They are allowed to feel that way. That does not mean that they do not care about the residents of Florida nor do they say at any time they blamed HAL for the hurricane as some have implied (that would be just silly).. They wanted information.. They needed to know what to do next.. I get that.. It is not that their vacation was "ruined" or that they did not understand they were taking some risk booking in Hurricane season (as a former Florida resident most hurricane seasons do not involve messes like this one... and yes I was in Opal so I know what you all are going through to some extent)..

People *do* care about the residents of Florida... However for someone to imply that booking a cruise in hurricane season is foolhardy is just about as sensative as telling someone who lives in Florida not to live there because they have Hurricanes.. Come on, there is a risk but no one expected this.. You read about Hurricane season but everything always states "Cruise ships travel around bad weather".. it says it on every cruise ship web page. How often are the ports closed???

It is a bad situation for everyone.. The residents of Florida, the people who have spent a very long time looking forward to their trips.. EVERYONE!! The cruise lines do not want to lose money nor do they want to put passengers in harms way.. Yes a decision could have been made sooner.. BUT if Frances had headed out to sea then they would have been damned for cancelling a cruise when nothing happened..

It sucks for everyone no matter how you look at it.

[dakrewser]

I have just read this thread very carefully, twice and I am pretty bothered. The OP was upset because they wanted current information. They FELT they were not getting it.. They are allowed to feel that way.
Yes, they are. But my point, at least, is that it's unreasonable to expect a cruise line to have more (or better) information than the weather bureau. I don't believe I criticized anyone for their feelings, simply tried to point out what the reasonable expectations might be. And, of course, pointing out the factual errors (such as that every other cruise line was a) quicker making decisions - which, of course, they've had to change numerous times; and b) was offering better compensation).

I sympathize with those whose plans were disrupted but that still doesn't give them permission to "act out" in public. While we might debate what the purpose of these boards is, I'm pretty sure that catharsis isn't one of the main ones.

-dave

[gliles]

Nancy Liedel
Mom to 3 boys with one on the way... help
Oh my, when do you have time to cruise let alone think about it?

[AV8OR]

Yes, they are. But my point, at least, is that it's unreasonable to expect a cruise line to have more (or better) information than the weather bureau. I don't believe I criticized anyone for their feelings, simply tried to point out what the reasonable expectations might be. And, of course, pointing out the factual errors (such as that every other cruise line was a) quicker making decisions - which, of course, they've had to change numerous times; and b) was offering better compensation).

I sympathize with those whose plans were disrupted but that still doesn't give them permission to "act out" in public. While we might debate what the purpose of these boards is, I'm pretty sure that catharsis isn't one of the main ones.

-dave

Dave,

I really don't believe this was an issue of folks expecting HAL to have more or better meterological data than NOAA but rather HAL's lack or response to what was being provided by NOAA. Most...okay, maybe not most but many of us understand that these types of systems are very unpredicatable. However, the area impacted by these systems is widespread and as early as thursday it was almost certain that the waters south and east of Florida were to be avoided (which is probably why Port Everglades closed on Friday). Logically, one would assume that the weather conditions enroute and the closed port would prevent the Zuiderdam from keeping to it original schedule...instead of acknowledging this HAL maintained that the ship would stick to it's original schedule. As I mentioned earlier, this created confusion for passengers and TAs alike especially after the other cruise line made alternate plans. While making decisions and having to change them can be trying, it gives the impression that the line is attempting to deal with the situation in an appropriate manner. HAL's handling of the situation since then has been quite good. They're getting information and direction down to their customer service reps and changes are being addressed accordingly. I view this situation from a process standpoint (occupational hazard I suppose). I see a management team that was seemingly slow to react initially (I can only speculate as to why) but has since gotten on top of the situation and makes changes (e.g. the recent changes to the Z's departure time) when needed. Can't speak to the better compensation since I haven't paid attention to what the other lines have offered.

Don't know if I would go as far as to say folks were "acting out" or doing some sort of cleansing here. I supposed I would need your definition of "acting out" before addressing that one in detail.

As I mention in another post I decided to cancel out on the cruise. I have a tremendous amount of respect for severe weather and since Frances will be visiting Florida the entire weekend I found it wise to stay home. I can always schedule another cruise...work permitting of course.

Chuck

[Nliedel]

Gliles,

It's either plan a vacation or go crazy. As some know this has been a tough pregnancy : ) I cruise by farming the boys out.. One goes to a friends (I take her son in exchange), two go to Grandmas and the last one will go to his aunts.. and *I* will get time alone with my other half. I figure the greatest gift I can give my kids is a strong marriage with two parents who worship them and cruising (and a twice a year quickie trip to Vegas with girlfriends) offer them that.. or at least I hope that is the magic formula.

[Nliedel]

Now they are talking about airports closed till Monday... Another monkey wrench. This is one slllooooowwwww moving hurricane.

[Lois R]

Nancy...hi:) yes, airports, and being as I live in FL (northern part)~I have had the news on all day......(in between trying to watch a bit of college football).

500,000 people in South Fl are without power:( .....and I truely don't know how the Z is going to be able to dock tomorrow.....this Frances...she has a mind of her own!....They keep saying she will hit near Melbourne in about 3 hours....not sure what is going to be happening in FLL.....

All my good thoughts go out to everyone.........

[dakrewser]

Logically, one would assume that the weather conditions enroute and the closed port would prevent the Zuiderdam from keeping to it original schedule...instead of acknowledging this HAL maintained that the ship would stick to it's original schedule.

While making decisions and having to change them can be trying, it gives the impression that the line is attempting to deal with the situation in an appropriate manner. HAL's handling of the situation since then has been quite good.
But even yesterday's plans are being changed as we speak - the plan to dock the Zui around 5 AM or 7 AM or even 10 AM are, as we can see, not going to happen.

People were told of new plans in time to change theirvtravel plans (just). While we would all like to be able to plan farther in advance it's true that, even now, almost 9PM EDT on Saturday, we still can't tell for sure if the ship will be able to dock in FLL tomorrow - at any time.

It now appears that most are satisfied with the way HAL is handling things. Many of us trusted all along that they would do so.

-dave

[Lois R]

Hi Dave:) ...you are correct...they won't be docking her tomorrow...I believe KK said HAL posted they would be bringing her in on Monday (hopefully).

It just looks too dangerous for them to try and bring her in tomorrow.....:eek:

[AV8OR]

But even yesterday's plans are being changed as we speak - the plan to dock the Zui around 5 AM or 7 AM or even 10 AM are, as we can see, not going to happen.

People were told of new plans in time to change theirvtravel plans (just). While we would all like to be able to plan farther in advance it's true that, even now, almost 9PM EDT on Saturday, we still can't tell for sure if the ship will be able to dock in FLL tomorrow - at any time.

It now appears that most are satisfied with the way HAL is handling things. Many of us trusted all along that they would do so.

-dave

Dave,

As they should be. They are doing a much better job at being proactive now than thursday...even with the uncertain conditions. With Frances pratically stalled over the east shore of Florida, the Z's departure has been pushed back again to Monday evening.

This is basically a debate on how to run a smart business. A lot of folks, my TA included, is assuming the decision was slow in coming because HAL HQ is in Seattle. I'm not so sure. HAL operates ship over greater distances and I'm told that it's a very efficient operation. Granted, most of those areas don't have the severe weather but I would imagine they have to deal with other challenges.

The sad thing for HAL and the non-officer crew on the Z is that they'll both take a beating this week from a financial perspective.

Chuck

[sail7seas]

How is it going for you, Lois? You doing okay?

[sail7seas]

IMO....There is no way Zuiderdam is coming into Port Everglades any earlier than Monday.

[Lois R]

7, thanks for asking:) things here are calm (thankfully)...we are so north that we aren't going to be feeling the winds and rain until tomorrow:eek:

[superstein61]

Lithium,

I'm so sorry that your cruise has been disrupted / cancelled / put off (I don't know which option you've chosen). When stuff like this happens it's never fun. Likewise, when HAL is slow in making up its mind and publishing its decisions that can be VERY VERY upsetting. As I think I've seen pointed out here, HALHQ is located in Seattle -- so, when it's 9 am in Ft. Lauderdale it's only 6 am at HQ. This isn't an excuse for them not being able to make a decision quickly, and get the word out to all those people who need to know ... but it does help explain why they were slower than most other lines.

I know this is not at all comforting, but it's simply the truth.

Please know that I sympathize entirely with your plight. I -- and several other CC regulars -- have had cruises either canceled or severely effected by weather or technical difficulties. It's NEVER fun, and the compensation offered (while helpful and appreciated) never quite makes up for the dashed plans.

God bless you and take care!I have been busy and away from the boards lately but just checked in to see what affects Frances was creating on the cruise lines. And I am going to make my first post saying I agree completely with the Rev.

I also think that too many folks here were critical of Lithium and others when they shouldn't have been. Seems to me that Lithium's and others points were they just wanted a decision on a timely basis. I can't fault them for that. I saw no one complaining about their vacation being ruined, etc - nor blaiming HAL for the weather. They simply were critical of HAL for the lack of timely info. Quite frankly, if I was flying to FLL for this cruise - I would have had the same concern.

HAL can not control the weather. They can however make decisions more promptly for their customers.

BTW - I have some very good friends who live in West palm Beach - so I am not insensitive to the plight of any Floridians. I hope they all come out of this healthy and with no significant damage

[RevNeal]

Hey, superstein61, good to see ya posting. Life ashore often keeps us busy, as I well know. I often fall out of posting after a cruise ... once I've posted my review and answered questions, I usually retreat to the "real world" and get some work done and also video and photo editing. But, once I get another cruise in my sights, I'm back. :D

So ... have you got any future cruises in your sights??

[superstein61]

Thanks Rev. Yes, I manage the finances for a school - and with the school year starting up, its been hectic. Plus I know what you mean - after the cruise, when you have done a review and answered questions, the motivation isn't always there until there is anticipation of the next cruise

Unfortunately no cruises on the horizon here. I decided to cash in a bunch of frequent flier miles and book some flights to Hawaii next spring break. But even with free flights, two weeks of hotels/condo's and food and well thats our vacation budget for the year. So that is going to be our vacation next year. but we are really looking forward to it.

[stillfrantic]

superstein....didn't get a chance to take a blender or anything to the cruise. Didn't get a chance to go. Are you with a university?

[superstein61]

superstein....didn't get a chance to take a blender or anything to the cruise. Didn't get a chance to go. Are you with a university?
Ahhhh - you can't leave home without a blender :)

Not a University but a Private school

[stillfrantic]

We're in the same environment.:)