Shame on HAL again

[peggyy]

Booked on the Oo to Alaska with my 83 year old dad, with the best insurance they offer, we had to cancel 2 days prior to sailing due to a medical situation. Since we hadn't arrived at our departure port yet (thank goodness), they withheld 10%, which is a chuck of change for 2 verandah rooms with a single supplement tacked on. Things haven't been going well on HAL since Carnival came into the picture. We've moved on.

[iluvcruzin]

That's terrible. Could you please share which travel insurance you used?

[RevNeal]

Peggy, I am sorry about your problem, and most especially about your father's "medical issue." I pray that he's going to be ok and that y'all will be able to cruise at some point in the future.

Things haven't been going well on HAL since Carnival came into the picture.
Carnival came into the picture for HAL nearly 16 years ago. Hence, I don't think that any recent changes with HAL policy are the result of Carnival "coming into the picture."

[sail7seas]

Carnival has owned HAL for well over ten years.

[AV8OR]

I think Princess was the most recent additional to Carnival Corp.

[doone]

Sorry to hear about your dad, hopefully he'll be on his feet again soon.

What type of insurance did you use, the cruise line's or other????? I know in the HAL brochure, it gives the breakdown's on the cancellation policy, and yes, that 10%, unfortunately, is in there.

[Jacqueline]

As S7S said, Carnival COrp has owned HAL for many years now.
I am sorrry for your dissapointment though- bad enough your dad is sick and you had to cancel ! Just think if you hadnt had insurance you would have lost EVERYTHING !

[gliles]

That is interesting, that 10% seems unfair.

[peaches from georgia]

This is the problem with the cruiseline's Cancellation Policy vs. buying real travel insurance from an independent insurance company.

HAL's Standard Cancellation Policy will pay 80% of your cruise fare and the Platinum Policy 90% (sounds like what you pruchased) when you cancel this close to sailing. This is stated on the website and can be read before you bought it. It is not true insurance as you are not reimbursed in full for your loss. If you had purchased regular travel insurance and had to cancel for medical reasons at any time you would have been remibursed 100%.

Sorry you were not able to make your cruise, but it would have been worse if his medical problem had occured while sailing.

[RuthC]

I'm sorry to hear of medical problems, and that you had to cancel your cruise; I am happy to read that you will get something back.

This is another sad example that it is vitally important to review insurance policies before purchase to be sure you have the policy that is right for you.
It can be a terribly expensive lesson to find yourself far from home, alone, and facing an emergency.

[RevNeal]

Carnival has owned HAL for well over ten years.

The deal with Carnival was announced in November of 1988, and on January 17, 1989, the purchase was finalized.

[gliles]

Well FWIW, thanks for sharing because I am guilty of not reading all the information, I would have assumed that it was truly insurance and I would get 100% back. You have saved me from that mistake.

[shipcafe]

Do any cruise lines (if any, which) actually offer a 100% refund that close to sailing for canceling for any reason?

Steve

[peggyy]

Really sad part here is that I'm an insurance agent. Insurance was with HAL and booked with dad and his TA (we're done with TA, too for various other reasone) Just booked an RCL cruise on-line which refunds 100% for medical reasons and the premium is half. I'll be paying closer attention in the future. And OK, I guess it wasn't Carnival that made us stray from HAL, wonder what it was that happened in the last 2 years but something changed. We were loyal, loyal until now.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Sorry to hear about your dad. Hope he is doing better now.

We do not buy insurance from the cruise lines.

We use a third party.

[sail7seas]

Really sad part here is that I'm an insurance agent. Insurance was with HAL and booked with dad and his TA (we're done with TA, too for various other reasone)

Sorry you did not realize what the coverage was that you/your dad were buying. I am sure you feel bad enough already.....but an Insurance Agent!!! :o

Hope your dad makes a speedy recovery and you will enjoy another cruise soon.

[iamirish]

Some cruise lines are now only offering you a credit on a future cruise with them, and no it is not at 100%.

Some policies, the medical payments are secondary to your own health insurance plans. That means, you must submit your claim to your own insurance first.

The one offered by SOME travel agents may not be the best plan for you - but it will usually be the one with the highest commission.

Tom

[zil]

We had to cancel close to sailing for medical reasons. I had HAL top insurance. I was thrilled to get refunded very promptly, less some percent.
At that time money was not the issue...health issues more important. However, I did know the HAL refund schedule!
Remember, HAL as an empty cabin at the last minute......

[Nliedel]

I tell you what.. one of the things I am learning from this site is where to buy insurance.. and the shore excursion low down... which line, ship, cabin.... well gee it is a lot isn't it?? :)

[hdawson]

For every cruiser I recommend you visit www.insuremytrip.com and review the different third party insurance plans. I recently bght CSA's web special
(very reasonable) and had to cancel. I received a full refund (in cash) eight days after mailing my claim forms. I usually use Travel Guard.
www.travelguard.com.

[jhannah]

It certainly pays to know what you're buying. For instance, Travelex is a very popular insurance. (I use it most all the time.) Yet some of their exclusions are for things that many people do while on a cruise: mountaineering (by definition scaling mountains with the assist of special equipment ... and some cruise ships have them onboard,) hang gliding, scuba or deep sea diving, while participating as a member of a team in an organized sporting competition, and any injury received as a result or consequence of being intoxicated. So, just read the evidence of coverage booklet you get and be certain your insurance is going to be what you need.

[peggyy]

Thanks for all the good advice. Now that we're not leaving anything up to our former TA anymore, I'll definitely be doing some more research into this (shame on me). Hopefully we'll make it to our rebooked cruise in February with better insurance (and not need it).

[RevNeal]

And OK, I guess it wasn't Carnival that made us stray from HAL, wonder what it was that happened in the last 2 years but something changed.

1. 911
2. The recession
3. The expansion of the fleet during this same period of time

All of these, combined together, resulted in a general decline in some aspects of service, as well as some perks and some features that are favored by many.

[justhere]

I don't mean to insult anyone, so let me start off by saying peggyy, I hope your father is ok.

having said that, i had to comment on your bashing of HAL. You're an insurance agent, you booked via a TA who took HAL's insurance and then you blame HAL for keeping 10%????

I work in a service industry and I can't tell you how ignorant/childish/pathetic it is to blame the company when they did absolutely nothing wrong. While it is certainly your perogative to take your business wherever you choose, you are undoubtably going to be frustrated and disappointed again in the future because you are not willing to take responsibility for your actions. You would rather blame the company you are doing business with than admit that you were wrong.

No, I don't work for HAL or any other cruise line but I just have to say "I'm sorry that HAL did what they said they were going to do!"

[RichardK]

Feel the love...............

[peggyy]

No kidding, I'm feeling the love. I seriously doubt that even HAL employees would be THAT offended by my comment. I guess I'm just pathetic in general. Boy, these boards can be tough. By the way, I was not involved in the booking process, my father lives in another state. He too, (a PHD) was frustrated by the discovery. Guess we're both pathetic.

[jayjaycan]

peggy

Don't get down on yourself. We all make mistakes we shouldn't, simply by making and accepting assumptions. If blame is to be laid I think it should fall upon you/your Dad's travel agent.They certainly should have advised you of the policy restrictions etc. and provided you with alternatives. I would complain to the agency or local governing board covering TA's.

[Jacqueline]

Frankly insurance policies are complicated and depending on the circumstances maybe this policy would have been better than another, who knows.
I think some of the more harsh responses were generated by the thread title. Blaming the cruiseline for an insurance problem - when the policy is given to you to read and is underwritten by CSA or AIG or some other insurance giant not by the cruiseline- is not going to generate the same level of sympathy as if it was put another way.
I have been reading cc boards for 4 years now and this is a pretty typical problem- either people not insuring and being angry at the cruiseline for being unfeeling (ie wife diagnosed with cancer the week before the cruise but they didnt have insurance and expected an allowance!!), missed the boat due to bad flights and blamed the cruiseline for all the time and trouble to catch up (usually no insurance but sometimes the amount of insurance will not really cover the expenses incurred, similar to your experience). Also even with insurance SOME people have been shocked to find out that in SOME cases, depending on how the policy is written, they need to pay first and get reinmbursed later- when you are in South America or Venice (two reports on the board) there can be thousands of dollars of expenses. People have maxed our cards, had to get money wired etc.
My husband and I insure for essentially for catastrophic conditions- ie having to be airlifted out of a remote spot etc. The co-pay on my daughter last hospital stay was $5000 after my very expensive insurance and this was at home. How disgusting is that ! Our insurance runs about $8000 a year thru my husbands law firm.
My view of the 10% is that you cannot insure against every possible eventuality. I would be glad that I was smart enough to have taken the insurance and gotten most my $ back.
Hope your dad is doing well. That is the most important thing !

[ron46936]

CSA handles the insurance for HAL but you get better prices and coverage by buying it direct.

[imsulin]

peggy

Don't get down on yourself. We all make mistakes we shouldn't, simply by making and accepting assumptions. If blame is to be laid I think it should fall upon you/your Dad's travel agent.They certainly should have advised you of the policy restrictions etc. and provided you with alternatives. I would complain to the agency or local governing board covering TA's.

Oh, Please! Blame the Travel Agent? The client got a copy of the insurance policy when they booked, and it is also stated in the brochure. This is just another bash on TAs when things don't work out. How do you know what the particular TA did or did not offer in terms of insurance? Now YOU'RE the one making assumptions! Sorry...tired of the TA bashing. Many of us work long and hard to do the best for our clients, and offer several trip insurance options. So much for your "assumption"!!

[NancyIL]

This is from the www.insuremytrip.com web site:

Q. Can I cancel a policy I purchased? Do I incur a penalty?
A. Most of the companies allow you to review the policy for 3 - 10 days following purchase (varies by company and plan). If you cancel your policy within that 3 - 10 day period, you will receive a full refund except for a small $3 - $5 non-refundable processing fee charged by the company.

[RevNeal]

We generally buy through CSA directly, not via HAL ... and have always been pleased with the coverage. In particular our greatest concern has always been emergency medical care and evacuation. While neither Christopher nor myself have any outstanding problems that could develop into heart attacks, etc., we'd rather be safe than sorry. And, of course, the coverage we buy also includes insurance against the need for cancellation.

[justhere]

peggyy:
I seriously doubt that even HAL employees would be THAT offended by my commentNow that you've summarily dismissed HAL as a company that you want to do business with, I guess you'll never know. In the service industry, most employees do work hard and take pride in giving the best service possible, especially at companies that are at the top or upper end of their market. After all, that's how they got there by providing the best service/product.

peggyy:
By the way, I was not involved in the booking process, my father lives in another state
You weren't even involved in the booking process yet you are ready to not only criticize HAL but also to make sure that you give a biased opinion to anyone that reads these boards. You are ready to dismiss HAL as a bad company and spread the word that they are bad when all they did was what they said that they were going to do. If they promised you 100% refund and only gave 90%, then I'm with you all the way. In this case, however, they stated right up front that it was 90% coverage and then when they covered 90% you slander them because you're not happy with the arrangements that your dad and his TA made. Perhaps the TA was wrong, perhaps not. Not enough facts/evidence to say. I would just ask that people consider where the problem is before they bad-mouth a company and ultimately all of its employees.

[mayesd]

People are quick to make judgements when in stressful situations and come here to vent. IMHO its ok to disagree and make suggestions but I think Peggy realizes she got what she paid for and next time will read the fine print. They made a mistake and are paying for it. I don't see any need in dragging her nose through it.

Peggy, Hope you dad is doing well

[peggyy]

Thanks everybody. Dad is doing better.

[doone]

Peggy, please don't be down on yourself, we all learn from our mistakes and there are many of us who have made the same mistake you did, but I'll bet you won't do that again!!!!!!!

Glad to hear dad is doing better, that's the bottom line.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Peggy - glad to hear hat your father is doing better.

At some time in each of our lives, we all have made a bad choice or done something dumb.

Go easy on yourself.

[Jacqueline]

Glad to hear dad is doing well, Peggy !

[TedC]

Insurance: Some wag said that you're covered for absolutely everything - except for what happens to you!

" Sorry, if it had happened on a Tuesday before noon you would've been covered, but ...."

[smeyer418]

remember when you buy insurance through an insurance company it is age rated, Cruise line coverage is not. So for some people cruise line coverage is cheaper(for the 83 year old it definitely is). As they say you live and learn. I hope he gets better. Some travel insurance companies do provide better coverage through a TA and yes they are paid a commission. I rarely buy insurance so I am willing to take some risk myself...(my health insurance does cover outside the US)- but my TA now on certain cruiselines will be providing the coverage without charge...

I am always amazed when reading some of the comments about the holier than thou attitude some people have. I work in the insurance industry(health) and would assume that the coverage for illness was a 100%, I thought that the 75-90% was for a no reason concellation that ONLY cruise lines allow....live and learn and remember everyone makes a mistake that's what erasers are for...


I have attached a link to the coverage definitions
http://www.hollandamerica.com/policies/cancellationprotection.do


as I read this there is the cancellation for no reason which is the 75-90% cash back but the medical cancellation is a different clause(and seems to be 100%). Is there some info that you didn't tell us...

[sail7seas]

We generally buy through CSA directly, not via HAL ... and have always been pleased with the coverage. In particular our greatest concern has always been emergency medical care and evacuation. While neither Christopher nor myself have any outstanding problems that could develop into heart attacks, etc., we'd rather be safe than sorry. And, of course, the coverage we buy also includes insurance against the need for cancellation.


With all due respect, Rev.....President Clinton certainly has received the finest medical care this country has to offer. During his eight years as President, Walter Reed and the finest docs.

He had no expectations he would, as we speak, be undergoing quadruple bypass surgery. None of us can safely Assume we have no outstanding problems that could develop into heart attacks.

And women should take very particular note. Sypmtoms are not the same as for men and many women's heart attacks go undiagnosed.


But, of course, this goes off topic........except as to the fact anyone at any time may need emergency medical care/medical evacuation.

[sail7seas]

Peggy....Happy to hear your Dad is feeling better.


Look forward to a 'replacement cruise' very soon.

[RichardK]

With all due respect, Rev.....President Clinton certainly has received the finest medical care this country has to offer. During his eight years as President, Walter Reed and the finest docs.

s7s>>>As one who received a West Point "upbringing", I'm honored by your statement. Begrudgingly (Go Army, Beat Navy), I have to admit that Bethesda Naval Hospital is better than OK too.

[jhannah]

But, of course, this goes off topic........except as to the fact anyone at any time may need emergency medical care/medical evacuation.That's the main point, IMO. And all the more reason to have regular checkups. How many times have we been told that early detection is the key to maintaining good health? We all want to be able to cruise when we can, without having to worry about what might happen to that little twitch or pain that has been nagging at us for weeks. At least Clinton paid attention to the symptoms, and is having things taken care of before it's too late to do anything because the heart is already damaged beyond adequate repair.

Get that checkup, CC friends! Live to cruise for many, many more years.

[Himself]

9/11/01 caused a lot of residual things to happen and we are just painfully learning the extent of it all.

Himself

[sail7seas]

s7s>>>As one who received a West Point "upbringing", I'm honored by your statement. Begrudgingly (Go Army, Beat Navy), I have to admit that Bethesda Naval Hospital is better than OK too.

:) Yes.....Bethesda Naval Hospital is a wonderful institution, as well. And frankly, it makes me proud as an American that our 'military hospitals' are as fine as they are. They should always be the BEST; they should always offer the BEST to our servicemen and women.

(.....DH served in the Army........Go Army!!! :) )

[RevNeal]

He [Clinton]had no expectations he would, as we speak, be undergoing quadruple bypass surgery. None of us can safely Assume we have no outstanding problems that could develop into heart attacks.

I beg to differ:

1. Clinton has an extensive family history of heart disease and death by heart attacks.
2. Clinton, himself, has had a chronic problem with exceedingly high cholesterol.
3. The care he has received, both during his Presidency and since, has been exemplary. He is in good physical condition -- particularly for a man his age and body-type -- but given the factors in my points 1 and 2, it is not a surprise that he's developed this problem.

Sail, you are correct that no one can "safely assume" anything. As I stated ... we get the insurance because, while there is no history on either side, neither Christopher nor I are comfortable taking a chance; you seem to think otherwise (hence, your post). My Deep Vein Thrombosis and Embolism in June of 2001 was injury-related and exacerbated by my being overweight. I've brought my weight down, but have a lot more to loose. I'm not stupid. There's no reason to lecture me (besides, only my mother gets to do that ... and she does, time and again).

[peggyy]

Thanks smeyer, i read the policy and couldn't find it either. Called HAL. The limitations are only listed in the Standard Plan. If you buy the Platimum plan, it's not mentioned. Therefore, you assume you're covered. I know, someone is flaming back at me. And if you do, do you read your auto and home policies or trust your agent?

[Krazy Kruizers]

I know I don't read all the fine print on every document. Couldn't hope to. Maybe I will trust the wrong person someday myself - we are all human.

[Cruiseoften]

*peggyy - Good to hear that your Dad is progressing well and that you have another cruise in the works - looking forward to it will hopefully speed recovery!

We're don't leave home without it people when it comes to insurance, medical and cancellation. Baggage (camera, clothes etc. etc.) we don't worry about, they're covered in our Homeowners policy.

Hopefully we've all learned something from your experience. I have to say IMHO that no blame lies with the cruise line (in this case HAL) - the TA, you and your Dad fell short in this instance.
:)

[smeyer418]

Thanks smeyer, i read the policy and couldn't find it either. Called HAL. The limitations are only listed in the Standard Plan. If you buy the Platimum plan, it's not mentioned. Therefore, you assume you're covered. I know, someone is flaming back at me. And if you do, do you read your auto and home policies or trust your agent?


Peggy I never meant to flame you no one(almost) reads the policies except lawyers. If you notice I said I would assume for a health reason its covered in full not at a percentage... BTW you may gather I am a lawyer...this is the time when your rely on the expertise of the TA....My insurance agent will tell you he has stopped betting my what is covered and what is not cause I win them almost always. Many times when he felt something wasn't covered I said file it anyway betting him a dinner... and I am way ahead I wish I was that successful in the slots. and I glad you Dad is doing better

Sid

[sail7seas]

Rev.....I am very sorry you seem to think I was lecturing you. I have no desire or intention to do so.

I wish you the very best of good health.


BTW......I had heart attacks recently. My cholesterol is well within normal limits; I do not have high blood pressure; I do not have diabetes; I am not overweight and I do not have alot of stress in my life.....and did not have any of those risk factors at the time of my attacks.