Things I Don't Know but Wonder.........???

[sail7seas]

Is it possible that Zuiderdam could be getting really low on fuel? How much 'spare' do you think they load when they load the tanks? Do they always 'fill to the brim'?

I am sure they can manage with food.....stores may start to get low depending if today was supposed to be a 'load week' . I'm sure they can feed everyone but the variety and quantity may start to diminish?

Hope folks with necessary Medications brought extras with them. Good lesson for all of us. Never travel with just enough!!

What about pax who have very low limits on their credit cards and their credit is about used up? Many will be facing cancellation fees to change their air tickets. They may have to buy new tickets all together and argue for credits on the unused flight at a later time. I imagine at least a few people are starting to worry about funds.

[elmorejj]

Sail, I`ve been thinking the same thing. After travelling around the world for years, both in the Military and more so since we retired, one thing we have learned, always be prepared for the inevitable. We always travel with a weeks extra meds plus a prescription. We take a supply of snacks...mainly because my hubby is diabetic, and last but not least...we always use AMEX...unlimited credit. I feel for any newbies on board, who never think of these kind of emergencies......jean :cool:

[cruisinjudy]

Sail, excellent questions. I was wondering abut some of those things, but I hadn't thought about fuel.
As to food, we were on Amtrak once when there was a track outage, and we sat on the track for hours and hours in the middle of nowhere in Montana I think or one of those northern states. They did bring in another engineer, but the rest of the crew just sort of went off duty and there was almost no food left onboard. At least on the cruise the crew was going to be working anyway, but they could certainly be running low on food and drink before Monday.

[Margie_Lady]

Remember that a ship can always sail to another port away from the storm if it needs to replenish fuel or supplies in an emergency. Fresh fruit, veggies, etc may be a little limp soon.

[sail7seas]

A ship such as Zuideredam cannot simply show up at a port and expect to be docked and serviced. Granting of permission by Harbor Master (Captain of the Port of whatever his title), agreement to fees and charges, available docking space, availability of fuel/supplies they need/want........ I am sure there are procedures and it can be accomplished. I think would be an interesting questions to ask a Captain if we are fortunate to be invited to his table soon. :)

[jhannah]

Good questions, Sail. Most of us generally take little thought as to the logistics of "turning" a cruise ship. Last I heard, the Zuiderdam was southwest of Key West in calm waters. Not many places to go for fuel from that point than New Orleans or Galveston. (I doubt they'd try Cuba!!!)

[Krazy Kruizers]

In 2002 we boarded the Amsterdam in Seattle for a 21 day cruise. We got caught in the lonshoremen strike along the entire west coast. No supplies were put on the ship in Seattle - no food or fuel. HAL had hoped that by the time we got to San Fancisco the strike would be over and we would get supplies - no such luck. And when we got to LA - strike still was not over.

The supplies that we had on board had to last till we got to Ft Lauderdale. We were refueled somewhere in Central America - can't remember where.

Alcohol ran out - the only thing you could buy in the boutiques was a cheap brand of rum. Many of the bars ran out of certain items. Wines - by the last week of the cruise, we were handed a list of what wines were left and given 10% off.

Menu only had 5 entress listed for last several days - for example - veal on pasta - and strange looking vegetables. But we survived - no one went hungry and very few complained. Breakfast and Lunch in the Lido had fewer and fewer offerings.

And of course we also had the first outbreak of the Norvo Virus to contend with as well.

[gliles]

I wondered about that too but I bet they over stock the food. Now the fuel, it is very expensive to haul around excess fuel I would imagine, I know it is for an aircraft.


No offense KK but I found this one line alone funny, taken out of context of course:

Menu only had 5 entress listed for last several days... Now that is roughing it! :D

[Krazy Kruizers]

No offense - I only mentioned that because I figured someone might wonder if there were a lot of choices of entrees and 5 seemed great to us.

And you know something else - I don't remember the waitstaff telling anyone that they were limited to just 1 entree. :D

[elmorejj]

Another thought to ponder, with all of S.Fla just about shut down, how will the ship be replenished? I`m sure lots of the provision trucks come in from farther up north......jean :cool:

[Cruisindad]

I don't know about the Zuiderdam or other ships, but this topic came up on my Norway cruise several years ago during a bridge tour. We were told that particular ship carried enough exra fuel that they could basically make the entire trip twice.

[Roadwork]

I read that Disney went to Galveston to restock on food. I didn't see anything about any other cruise line that has a ship waiting to get back into Florida.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Didn't RCI and Carnival have ships on cruises this past week out of Miami?

[Lois R]

Roadwork, Century is also waiting to get back into FLL, along with Zuiderdam.

I popped over to the X Board...seems she will be docking tomorrow too. They just cannot get back into the port today.

Yes, KK...Port of Miami had ships out too......(I think)

[ocngypz]

Ships such as Zuiderdam refuel every two weeks. If they were scheduled for refueling this weekend, they could have made arrangements to take on fuel earlier at another port.

Low limits on cc? Well.. there's always cash on hand, the atm machine or a personal check or debit card. Then ... there's always just putting the card away.

Reprovisioning is the biggest problem. Yes, you do run out of items. I've had it happen numerous times... and not even storm related. Fleet ops.. along with purchasing have to make sure vendors will be able to provide the needed stores at either alternate ports... or...they have to make sure their vendors will have sufficient trucks... and FUEL to reprovision the ship properly once she docks in Port Everglades. When winds are above 40 mph, fuel trucks stay off the roads. Combine that with the fact we are very low on fuel here in south Florida....and a good portion of the east coast of FL is without power, it makes that "decision tree" branch out even further.

Since about 10 yesterday morning..even we on the west coast of FL have had nothing but rain.. and 30+ mph winds. Winds increased last night around 1 am... and they still are blowing. There's been a confirmed report of a tornado in Highlands County (central FL in the citrus belt).

It's not over yet:-(

[sail7seas]

Good points.

However, HAL does not have ATM machines on their ships.
No cashing of personal checks permitted.


The ship has been at sea....no ports since the announcements were made.

[Vicar]

Last cruise we were on , we sat on our balcony watching the stevedores loading the provisions on the ship before sail a way. Pallets and Pallets of food, sugar, coffee, everything and we were thinking then , how do they know how much to order. You have a couple thousand people eating and drinking all week, some people have one cup of coffee a day some have ten some use no sugar, some use 3 sugars per cup, Some people have three entrees and 2 appetizers a night and so on. How the heck do they do it , because on every cruise we have been on they have never run out of a thing (That we noticed any way)

Lets just hope they have at least a few extra days food and drink supply to get the pax on Z through this.

I mean who wouldn't love to have their cruise extended a few extra days, but certainly not this way.

[sail7seas]

Vicar.......Your questions are excellent.
We are very good friends with an Executive Chef and we have been to his office in the galley (totally glass booth office which gives him a total view of this kichen). He showed us the stack that comprised his order form. It had to be 350+ pages and for each 'supply load', he spends hours completing what he wants delivered.

HAL has over 130 years of history and through the years, they have learned what they need :)

Actually, each thing is carefully analyzed as to prior demand/usage. If the last time they served escargot, they served 623 portions of it; the time before they served 628 portions and the time before that 620....they have a fair idea they will serve around 625 portions the next cruise (assuming close to the same number of pax aboard) and they will need all of the ingredients to prepare that dish.

Same holds for gallons of milk; eggs; coffee; hamburgers.......

In this day and age of computers, the project is somewhat easier but still a massive job to complete those order forms.

[tomc]

They use the "Essex Solution" when food runs low.

[sail7seas]

Tom......

Please excuse my ignorance, lack of knowledge, stupidity.....but what is that?

[Krazy Kruizers]

Remember our cruise was 21 days long and the Amsterdam had just completed a 7 day Alaskan cruise.

So she went 28 days before food supplies were loaded onto her - that's a long time and many mouths to feed.

Only some items were completely gone before we got to Ft Lauderdale.

[tomc]

s7s...

Ever read about the whaling ship Essex? Got cut in half by a whale and the crew ended up in a dory. Out of desperation, due to lack of food ... well ... not all returned.

[sail7seas]

KK....Imo the only way that could be the case is that they had already started to load stores for your cruise at the loading they did for the previous cruise/cruises.

They knew they would need so much for the 21 dayers that they did not wait for a single load on the turn around day when you boarded.

Obviously, a well experienced company such as HAL knows exactly how TO DO IT RIGHT and that is why they were able to work around the 'roadblock' they encountered. Proper prior planning made for good results in the face of obstacles.

That IMO is one of the many things that makes cruising with HAL better than sailing with some other Lesser cruise companies.


JMHO, of course. :)

[sail7seas]

Thanks, Tom.........

I must admit I am sorry I asked. :(

[tomc]

I figured everybody knew about that and I could just sort of telegraph it.

[Vicar]

Stiil has to be quite an undertaking .

Like you said computers and years of experience are a big help I am sure. After all these years they probablty do have it down to a science. But when the average Joe like me thinks about it , its a pretty daunting task :)

Some times its pretty tough getting dinner ready at a certain time just for the people in your house *LOL* Imagine feeding thousands of people ,all day long ,in God knows how many dining venues depending on the ship.

[Vicar]

Tom

Have to confess I never heard of The Essex. Kind of like a Donner Party at sea :)

[sail7seas]

:) Sorry....I guess it was 'everybody' minus one---------Me! :)

[imsulin]

The Disney Wonder refueled and loaded new supplies in Galveston yesterday. Just an FYI.

[cruisinjudy]

Well, I have seen supplies run out towards the end of a cruise. So I can see that there would certainly be some items not available, and fresh produce would not last.
And I didn't know, or at least didn't remember, about the Essex either.

[sail7seas]

Tanks, I was feeling like the dumb one.....Glad to know I have company. :)

[gliles]

I didn't know either but then again, didn't want to :p

[sail7seas]

The Disney Wonder refueled and loaded new supplies in Galveston yesterday. Just an FYI.

Well, that sure wouldn't delight me if my air tickets brought me to FLL......What good would it do for pax to suddenly have to scramble and try to get to Galveston? I do not think that a positive solution for pax looking to embark.

Did Disney pay for rebooking all of those air tickets? Did they get seats for folks who held seats on flights going to Florida? Did they transfer folks who were already in Flordia to Galveston at their expense? Did they pay hotel cancellation fees?

Where is the favor they did for their pax. I think it stinks.


As always....JMHO

[jhannah]

Sail, I believe they just reprovisioned. They didn't disembark any pax or take on new ones. Just got some supplies to carry them through until they can get back into Port Canaveral.

[sail7seas]

Ahhaaa.....That's a very different thing, isn't it? Thanks, Jim.

[gliles]

I believe they did allow people to disembark but I would have to assume that would have been at their own expense. I would have stayed on...well, considering it is a Disney cruise, maybe not! :rolleyes:

[Slinkiecat]

I think would be an interesting questions to ask a Captain if we are fortunate to be invited to his table soon. :)
Hey, glad you thought of that. If you are so blessed to get that opportunity, I hope you'll share his answers with us when you get back online. :)

slinkie

[superstein61]

Well, that sure wouldn't delight me if my air tickets brought me to FLL......What good would it do for pax to suddenly have to scramble and try to get to Galveston? I do not think that a positive solution for pax looking to embark.

Did Disney pay for rebooking all of those air tickets? Did they get seats for folks who held seats on flights going to Florida? Did they transfer folks who were already in Flordia to Galveston at their expense? Did they pay hotel cancellation fees?

Where is the favor they did for their pax. I think it stinks.


As always....JMHO
No one was required to disembark - DIS just picked up supplies - BUT, if someone wanted to disembark, they were allowed to. THIS IS A HUGE FAVOR to their PAX. Those that neededto be off to be somewhere had a chance to. HAL did not allow PAX that same courtesy.

I think what DIS did is great - and its what HAL didn't do that stinks.

Thats MHO

[Roadwork]

I also think Disney handled this very well and much better than HAL.

The PAX were given the option to leave the ship in Galveston. I read that about 600 opted for this choice. I would think some people had commitments they needed to get back home for. Getting a flight out of Texas had to be much easier than trying to get something out of Florida.

[gliles]

I also think Disney handled this very well and much better than HAL.

The PAX were given the option to leave the ship in Galveston. I read that about 600 opted for this choice. I would think some people had commitments they needed to get back home for. Getting a flight out of Texas had to be much easier than trying to get something out of Florida.
But Disney has employees in Galveston, HAL doesn't. It has to be much easier logistically for Disney to do this.

[tomc]

Was HAL constrained by the Jones Act? Or were there other considerations that made their final decision better than any other one? I see so many threads on these boards against (name the cruise line of your choice) and then, a few days later, Cruise News Daily comes out with background nobody ever realized existed and people end up with egg on their faces. And never an apology.

[Roadwork]

But Disney has employees in Galveston, HAL doesn't. It has to be much easier logistically for Disney to do this.
Correct, no disagreement here.

Disney made decisions and announcements much earlier than HAL. Hal seemed much slower to come forward with a plan. To announce they would post an update on their web site at a given time and not do it until much later was not very good for those who had booked on the Zuiderdam.

[Druke I]

Much of the food used on the cruise ships is prepositioned, in containers.

Apr of 97, we took a cruise on Sky Princess, Osaka Japan to Vancouver British Columbia, and several of the containers did not make it to Osaka.

We ran out of most fresh veggies, milk, and ice cream before making it to the Aleutian Islands. At Dutch Harbor, members of the Purser's Office and cooking staff "raided" the local grocery store (very small) and literally swept the produce and dairy sections clear.

Interesting (and cold) trip.

Michael

[superstein61]

But Disney has employees in Galveston, HAL doesn't. It has to be much easier logistically for Disney to do this.
So logistically it would have taken HAL more work than DIS - but from a customer service standpoint that doesn't excuse HAL from not making the effort.

BTW - I am curious - I have seen this quote about DIS having employees in Galveston. Just what Disney employees are based there? Galveston is not a Disney port of call. So I am really curious about this big staff of Disney employees based in Galveston some of you alude to

[superstein61]

Was HAL constrained by the Jones Act? Or were there other considerations that made their final decision better than any other one? I see so many threads on these boards against (name the cruise line of your choice) and then, a few days later, Cruise News Daily comes out with background nobody ever realized existed and people end up with egg on their faces. And never an apology.
yadda, yadda, yadda - another HAL defender to the rescue.

Come on Tom - constrained by the Jones Act? in a time when there is a weather emergency?

Why wasn't Disney constrained by the Jones Act?

You are looking for excuses for HAL. C'mon - be reasonable - DISney, with their whopping 5 years or so of cruise experience did a better job in this situation than HAL and its 130 years of experience did. No need to get defensive

[gliles]

BTW - I am curious - I have seen this quote about DIS having employees in Galveston. Just what Disney employees are based there? Galveston is not a Disney port of call. So I am really curious about this big staff of Disney employees based in Galveston some of you alude to
Sorry, that was me. I guess I read that somewhere and was wrong. I equate that to an airline landing somewhere in which the airline has no service but in extreme emergencies, can be done.

I apologize, I was wrong about DIS and Galveston. Did they once? It seems that I remember seeing that. Oh well, again forgive me. It won't be the first or last time I have been wrong :o

[superstein61]

Sorry, that was me. I guess I read that somewhere and was wrong. I equate that to an airline landing somewhere in which the airline has no service but in extreme emergencies, can be done.

I apologize, I was wrong about DIS and Galveston. Did they once? It seems that I remember seeing that. Oh well, again forgive me. It won't be the first or last time I have been wrong :o
gliles - thanks. No problem. Thanks for clarifying this - I didn't think Disney had people based in Galveston.

As far as I know, Disney has never called on Galveston - they have always sailed out of Port Canaveral. I know Carnival still does and I think possibly RCCL / Princess as well.

[ocngypz]

Disney did such a great job.. they are still revising this week's schedules. Oops.. looks like they didn't count on Port Canaveral being closed until Wednesday, Sept 8th! Ditto RCL... and Carnival.

Meanwhile back at HAL.....their decision.....was their final decision....a fait accompli.......and it worked.....the first time around. No changing and rearranging.......and that's just what any travel company wants to accomplish. Being one of those people who has to make those type of "Go-No Go" decisions.. only for land tours......... HAL did a great job.

Now I get to go back to office on Tuesday..and start the "Go-No-Go" decision making process all over again because of Ivan. And.......have to reschedule all those Savannah trips we cancelled on Thursday.....which.....in hindsight......could have run.. although with the information on hand Thursday.....it didn't seem possible... ergo..."No-Go".. and a lot of disappointed vacationers.

Sometimes being first......isn't always the best position to be in!

[superstein61]

Meanwhile back at HAL.....their decision.....was their final decision....a fait accompli.......and it worked.....the first time around. No changing and rearranging.......and that's just what any travel company wants to accomplish. Being one of those people who has to make those type of "Go-No Go" decisions.. only for land tours......... HAL did a great job.

LOL - Keep trying. You really can't be serious. HAL made their decision - a final decision ?????? And it worked ????? have you read some of the threads here ??? Glad I wasn't watching HAL's website for their promised updates that never appeared on time

Hmmmm, seems to me HAL changed their schedule numerous times. First they were leaving as scheduled on Saturday, then 7pm Saturday, then sometime Sunday am, then Sunday PM, then finally Monday.

yep - they made a final decision with no changes alright.

Besides - my point about DIS doing a better job at this than HAL was primarily in regards to the PAX on board who may have needed to get home / somewhere on the date they planned

Next !!!

[tomc]

superstein --

I was asking a question, looking for information. Simple as that. I like to look at (look for) all possibilities, then see if they hold up. I also like to see if there are combinations of possibilities that don't at first seem to affect each other.

Just a question.

[cactuslady]

deleted

[superstein61]

superstein --

I was asking a question, looking for information. Simple as that. I like to look at (look for) all possibilities, then see if they hold up. I also like to see if there are combinations of possibilities that don't at first seem to affect each other.

Just a question.
Tom - OK, but it seemed to me you were doing more than just asking a question. I took your comment of:

"I see so many threads on these boards against (name the cruise line of your choice) and then, a few days later, Cruise News Daily comes out with background nobody ever realized existed and people end up with egg on their faces. And never an apology."

as being critical of someone voicing an opinion against a cruise line. If thats not the context you meant it, ok - but honestly, I am not sure what other context that could be offered in. JMHO