Safe from a Charter

[azkcruizers]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how close to a sailing you are safe from being chartered? My family of 15 is booked on the Feb 7 sailing of the Eurodam. We were originally booked on the Jan 31 which got chartered. We are all wondering when we can feel safe that this date isn't going to end up chartered as well. Has anyone ever been chartered less than nine months before sailing? I'd love any info anyone has. I always plan our vacation for everyone and I think some people in my group think I can control the charters:eek: When will I be safe??;)

[Northshorecruisers]

We were booked on the 10/4/08 Oosterdam and noticed in Jan that it had been removed from HAL's list of cruises. Switched over to the 10/18/08 Eurodam and then that was chartered shortly after. We're now on the 10/18/08 Oosterdam and being less than 6 months, I'm feeling safe.

[kryos]

I would say you are reasonably safe from a charter if you book a longer cruise ... say maybe 14 days or longer. The ones that seem overwhelmingly to get chartered are the seven-dayers.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[hammybee]

I pay attention to charters and based upon observed patterns, once you are inside the 9-10 month period, it's highly unlikely that your Hal ship will become chartered.

I have seen charters on NCL at the 6 month point and spontaneous charters when Carnival was used to house the homeless, after Katrina.

If it were my cruise, I would buy airfare at the 6 month mark, but then again, I have yet to book a cruise 6 months into the future.

[twinkletoes4445]

I certainly hope you're safe...and I can appreciate your concern. I think it was just last week that a HAL ship was chartered and it was something like 5 or 6 months from the sail date.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you! Surely they won't turn all 7-day Caribbean sailings into charters.

[OVgirl]

We're wondering the same thing. We are looking at a B2B next Feb./Mar. on Westerdam. I know that this ship gets chartered quite often. I think we will wait and book much closer to sailing. You just never know...

[hammybee]

I certainly hope you're safe...and I can appreciate your concern. I think it was just last week that a HAL ship was chartered and it was something like 5 or 6 months from the sail date.


That would be a September or October sailing. When was this? What ship? What thread? The charters listed in the sticky, at the top of this board, have been there for quite some time.

http://www.wa70.com/hdisplay.php

I am aware of a report of an alleged Eurodam charter at the end of November. The poster did not share more and scared some posters who were booked on this cruise. Anyone can post anything on a Message Board and some do. If this sailing does indeed charter out, that poster will have some credibility and if not, well, nevermind.

[twinkletoes4445]

That would be a September or October sailing. When was this? What ship? What thread? The charters listed in the sticky, at the top of this board, have been there for quite some time.

http://www.wa70.com/hdisplay.php

I am aware of a report of an alleged Eurodam charter at the end of November. The poster did not share more and scared some posters who were booked on this cruise. Anyone can post anything on a Message Board and some do. If this sailing does indeed charter out, that poster will have some credibility and if not, well, nevermind.

HAL 7-day ships are chartering out left and right. It's wise to be on the lookout if you're on one of these ships. As for the thread, I'll have to look for it.

Yes, anyone can leave a message on a board, but if you look at the number of charters that have been popping up on HAL, especially on the Westerdam and Eurodam, you'd be wise to at the very least, check into what's being reported. I'm not willing to shoot the messenger even if it turns out to not be accurate because HAL's track record for chartering out these ships is increasing. This is all to common of discussion these days for me. I'd never book a 7-day HAL Caribbean cruise, but that's just me. I'm hoping our 10-day will be safe, but who knows.

You can call it an "alleged" charter if you like, but I'll call it a heads-up and info that warrants further investigation. And it may be turn out the info isn't true...but it pays to check these things out.

And I do not think a sailing in Feb. is safe from charter at this point in time. I hope for the OP it is, but HAL's is turning into the charter King of the Caribbean. It is what it is. But it's wise to stay on top of all facts, and even the rumors.

[hammybee]

I would not post something about a charter unless I was willing to back it up with facts. The good people who were on the RSVP charter, this past February, gave everyone a heads up that RSVP was selling a Eurodam 2009 charter, twelve months into the future.

This is very different from posting hearing about blah, blah, blah and no facts, despite requests from several posters. It's unfortunate, as it creates increased uncertainty in an already uncertain enviornment.

Charter organizers need time, a lot of time, to promote and sell out their charter cruise which is why the majority of charters on any cruise line occur 10+ months before sail date.

HAL is indeed the current king of 7 day charters, with Celebrity on its heels.

[azkcruizers]

Northshorecruisers......I was wondering what you were offered by HAL each time your cruise was chartered. They offered me a different sailing date at the same price I had paid and a $200 OBC for a VF balcony. I was just curious if they charter on me again will I be offered another date with an additional OBC or just another date? I would probably end up out of luck on the Eurodam if they chartered since my window to travel isn't huge. So, I'll just cross my fingers that we are safe.:)

[kryos]

If it were my cruise, I would buy airfare at the 6 month mark, but then again, I have yet to book a cruise 6 months into the future.
If a large group is forming on a cruise, and they have an option for a charter, it is entirely possible that the boat can get chartered less than six months out. It just all depends on how their bookings are going.

Like I said, I stay away from the seven-day cruises (and even the ten day ones) and so far have never had one chartered out from under me.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[azkcruizers]

I would love to be able to go on a longer than 7 day cruise...some day. I am so looking forward to sailing with HAL for the first time, I just hope this one stays available. I had never heard of the ships getting chartered before, but the other cruise lines that I have sailed do it less often and I just started looking into HAL. I'm learning something new everyday on here. From what everyone says I'm just dying to taste the food and I'm not going to feel safe for a while. Thanks for all of your input!!!:o

[Jack1]

We had booked Feb 21, 2009 Eurodam and then found out it was chartered. HAL offered us an OBC for switching and price protection for another week (Feb 28). I asked her if that week gets chartered and we have to switch again, would HAL offer the same OBC for that switch too. She said that was their policy. So, hopefully it doesn't get chartered again, but I am not holding my breath.
Faye

[twinkletoes4445]

I would not post something about a charter unless I was willing to back it up with facts. The good people who were on the RSVP charter, this past February, gave everyone a heads up that RSVP was selling a Eurodam 2009 charter, twelve months into the future.


Long before Shonuf could find out from her TA or HAL, it was posted on this forum that her cruise was indeed a charter. And as she kept spreading the word (a month or so later), there will still people who'd not known about this.

As for posting and not knowing...well, if HAL would be more up front about these charters, we'd not have to speculate so much. As it stands right now, if you book a 7-day Caribbean charter, you might as well be spinning a roulette wheel...because who knows if you're going to get to go or not.

So I'd rather hear the rumors, then I could at least check around, because by the time HAL confirms what's going on, a person could have been making other plans. And if it doesn't turn out to be a charter...then that's good.

It wasn't too long ago posters were saying that charters would never book over a holiday cruise. Then wasn't it the Olivia group that took over a Thanksgiving sailing (for this coming Thanksgiving)?

I'm not even booking my air for my 10-day cruise for a while, just to be safe. And unless my schedule was very flexible, I'd never entertain the thought of booking a 7-day cruise on HAL, especially in the Caribbean.

[twinkletoes4445]

I would love to be able to go on a longer than 7 day cruise...some day. I am so looking forward to sailing with HAL for the first time, I just hope this one stays available. I had never heard of the ships getting chartered before, but the other cruise lines that I have sailed do it less often and I just started looking into HAL. I'm learning something new everyday on here. From what everyone says I'm just dying to taste the food and I'm not going to feel safe for a while. Thanks for all of your input!!!:o

I really hope that you get to go on your cruise! Knowledge is a powerful tool and I personally like to be informed of changes so I can make the choices that would work best for me.

We loved our HAL cruise...and are looking forward to our next one, but HAL is for whatever reason, going more and more toward the charter end of the industry.

[hammybee]

If a large group is forming on a cruise, and they have an option for a charter, it is entirely possible that the boat can get chartered less than six months out. It just all depends on how their bookings are going.-rita

Anything is possible, but that is not the same thing as probable.

[hammybee]

So I'd rather hear the rumors, then I could at least check around, because by the time HAL confirms what's going on, a person could have been making other plans. And if it doesn't turn out to be a charter...then that's good.

The problems with rumors that cannot be substantiated is that they create increased uncertainty. A cruise line is not going to stop selling cabins or acknowledge a potential charter until the charter organizer executes a contract and arranges the necessary financing.

Chances are, given the credit crisis, the banks are potentially requiring substantially more assurances than a whim, to commit to financing a charter. The best assurances are advance sales for the charter.

It's the bank that's on the line if the charter organizer is unable to pull it off. And a few of the charter organizers have gotten into nasty situations when they bit off more than they could sell, ala the larger ships.

As usual, I am not defending HAL or any cruise line. It is what it is. Longer sails and/or big ships are the best way to avoid the potential for a charter from a U.S. port. Otherwise, we take out chances.

[hammybee]

It wasn't too long ago posters were saying that charters would never book over a holiday cruise. Then wasn't it the Olivia group that took over a Thanksgiving sailing (for this coming Thanksgiving)?

That surprised me too, that a charter organizer anticipated it could fill a ship over the Thanksgiving holiday. Just the airfare.....

Well for now, the December holidays are safe, although I am aware of groups that sail over New Years.

[lorekauf]

The problems with rumors that cannot be substantiated is that they create increased uncertainty. A cruise line is not going to stop selling cabins or acknowledge a potential charter until the charter organizer executes a contract and arranges the necessary financing.

Chances are, given the credit crisis, the banks are potentially requiring substantially more assurances than a whim, to commit to financing a charter. The best assurances are advance sales for the charter.

It's the bank that's on the line if the charter organizer is unable to pull it off. And a few of the charter organizers have gotten into nasty situations when they bit off more than they could sell, ala the larger ships.

As usual, I am not defending HAL or any cruise line. It is what it is. Longer sails and/or big ships are the best way to avoid the potential for a charter from a U.S. port. Otherwise, we take out chances.

Sure seems that you are defending the cruise lines:) .

I would personally like to hear the rumors even if they turn out not to be true. You can choose to act on it or not. If you can take holidays whenever you want maybe it's no big deal to be moved around and moved around. Some of us do have jobs which require us to be there at certain times.

I would rather take matters into my own hands then being supplied by HAL with the facts when they get around to it.

This is my opinion only!

[hammybee]

There is no way to stop a rumor. There is nothing to prevent anyone from posting intentionally false information on a message board just to stir the pot. It happens.

I would not do it, unless I had facts to back me up, a web site advertizing the charter or posts from people who have booked the charter. Anything less is a tease and there is no way a cruise line is going to confirm or deny a charter until the dam ship is actually chartered.

There is no comparison to the number of bookings cancelled by passengers on a whim before final payment date versus the number of passenger bookings cancelled by cruise lines, due to a charter ten or more months into the future. Any way I twist and turn it, the consumer has the advantage before final payment date.

[lorekauf]

There is no way to stop a rumor. There is nothing to prevent anyone from posting intentionally false information on a message board just to stir the pot. It happens.

I would not do it, unless I had facts to back me up, a web site advertizing the charter or posts from people who have booked the charter. Anything less is a tease and there is no way a cruise line is going to confirm or deny a charter until the dam ship is actually chartered.

There is no comparison to the number of bookings cancelled by passengers on a whim before final payment date versus the number of passenger bookings cancelled by cruise lines, due to a charter ten or more months into the future. Any way I twist and turn it, the consumer has the advantage before final payment date.

There does seem to be folks that post rumors just to stir the pot...not just about charters...but pretty much anything. Those people have way to much time on their hands:rolleyes: . Maybe people that are posting their first post aren't the most reliable.

I think it is up to the person affected to check things out if possible and make up their own mind.

I've heard you mention about a cabin being sold 8x over. I know this info came from elsewhere and you were quoting this. I find this amazing. I don't have time to waste booking and rebooking cruises...over and over. Here we are again....maybe folks with to much time on their hands. I have over 150+ sea days and every cruise I've booked I've taken. Can't imagine why people would cancel and rebook...cancel and rebook...for other then medical reasons.

As far as having the upper hand before final payment...no surprise there....they are selling a product and there should be some upper hand on behalf of the consumer.:confused:

[twinkletoes4445]

The problems with rumors that cannot be substantiated is that they create increased uncertainty.

This is the Internet. You really can't believe anything you read, from anyone. The only thing you can do it take what's posted, and go from there. If a cancellation is just a rumor, and someone is getting his or her jollies from posting such things, there's not much you can do. If the charter business wasn't so big on HAL, I'd completely ignore the posts, but you just can't. I don't get my knickers in a know, but I will at the very least remember this info and see if I can find out if it's fact, or fiction, and how it will come into play into my cruise.

A cruise line is not going to stop selling cabins or acknowledge a potential charter until the charter organizer executes a contract and arranges the necessary financing.


There have been too many posts about cruisers finding out a long time down the road about their sailing for there to be any contract issues, IMO. I am sure sometimes things fall through the cracks, but I've lost count how many times posters have posted that their TA couldn't get a direct answer out of HAL (and a couple have been in their TA's office when this was going on).

Chances are, given the credit crisis, the banks are potentially requiring substantially more assurances than a whim, to commit to financing a charter. The best assurances are advance sales for the charter.

Is this a guess? You talk about other posters not knowing "facts" but you can post what you "think" is going on?


It's the bank that's on the line if the charter organizer is unable to pull it off. And a few of the charter organizers have gotten into nasty situations when they bit off more than they could sell, ala the larger ships.

And? We own a business. You either play ball or you don't. You bite off more than you can chew and you pay the price. I don't see what this has to do with yanking around individual passengers who've already booked a cruise.

As usual, I am not defending HAL or any cruise line. It is what it is. Longer sails and/or big ships are the best way to avoid the potential for a charter from a U.S. port. Otherwise, we take out chances.

You might as well spin the roulette wheel and see where the ball lands because you're odd of actually going on a 7-day cruise in the Caribbean on HAL is pretty slim. And your chances of finding this out in a timely fashion is about zero.

[twinkletoes4445]

.

I would personally like to hear the rumors even if they turn out not to be true. You can choose to act on it or not. If you can take holidays whenever you want maybe it's no big deal to be moved around and moved around. Some of us do have jobs which require us to be there at certain times.

I would rather take matters into my own hands then being supplied by HAL with the facts when they get around to it.

I feel the exact same way. Like I said, if this wasn't a common occurrence, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but this topic comes up daily. Better to do a little digging in advance, and if you do find info that supports these posts, then you can act.

I wouldn't wait for HAL to pick up the phone. In fact, I don't know who it was but someone posted that HAL doesn't actually contact the TA's. The TA's have to search through someone online place that lists the cancellations and then line them up with their clients. It seems like it would be a nice thing if HAL would take the time to notify the TA's directly. Nah...too much work! Especially these days with all the charters.

I really think charters are here to stay. They must be good for HAL and the others, or they wouldn't be doing them. So, the best thing an individual passenger can do is be on top of things.

[twinkletoes4445]

And here's a thread that shows why it's important to at least have a head's up in advance (about a possible charter). This was discussed at great length prior to being finally "confirmed" as a charter.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=14516913#post14516913