Mexico/Sea of Cortez cruise -- poverty in Mexico?

[CowPrincess]

DH thinks our next cruise should be to Mexico -- he wants a WARM place this time.

I'm more than a bit concerned that the poverty there will affect my enjoyment. I posted on the Mexico board, and got a number of responses that were along the line of "If you spend money in Mexico you are helping the economy". That doesn't really help me, though, in that when faced with people who need help, I want to help right then, concretely.

As a point of reference, on one land-based vacation, I spent more than half my vacation rescuing a puppy and finding a home for it.

Has anyone else had these reservations? If you did, how did you overcome them? Or did you go despite hesitation and have a fabulous vacation or the worst vacation of your life?

Any help and/or insights from my fellow HAL cruisers would be appreciated!

[catl331]

It is difficult to say no to the little children selling beaded bracelets and whatnots. I bet some are not even made in Mex. Do they get the money for these or do they work for someone. They have such sad beautiful brown eyes. You can't save the world. We did a Ft. Laud Panama cruise to L.A. We found Acapulco had the most people selling on the street. It was so hard to keep saying No, gracias. but it is endless. You wonder how can there be such poverty when there are so many 4 and 5 star hotels and fancy restaurants. There are very rich people and very poor people but probably not too many in between. By buying objects you are interested in or need I guess you do help a little. You can't buy everything. but those eyes......

[ellbelle]

Cowprincess- We live in California, so Mexico is a very easy trip for us so have taken several cruises along the Mexican Riviera. We have also taken three land based vacations to Puerto Vallarta.

Yes, there is poverty. You will tend to see more of it on ship excursions as you pass through outlying areas. The port areas are nice though, you can walk around and really not be bothered by beggars. As the years have gone on, we see less begging in all the ports of call. I think you should go for it, and experience something new. The hot weather, which I love, is a bonus too.

My husband is "dragging" me to Alaska this summer (burr), but I am secretly planning another cruise to Mexico....:)

Cheryl

[localady]

Cabo, Mazatlan and PV's economies are booming. PV has a new Costco and there are many newer model cars on the road. I never felt that I was in an impoverished area. Frankly, it's my favorite West Coast cruise for a little R & R!

No doubt, if you go outside these areas you will see more, but nothing like what we saw in Nicaragua, Brazil or Belize City!:eek:

[CowPrincess]

Ellbelle said:

My husband is "dragging" me to Alaska this summer (burr),

I've been 4 times, just got back, would go back again TODAY and am trying to figure out how to convince DH we NEED to go back to Alaska before the end of this season!!!!! I hope you love it as much as I do!

Catl331 said:

but those eyes......

Yeah, I hear in those words how haunting their eyes must be.

Localady said:

I never felt that I was in an impoverished area.

So if we stay close to the pier, we would more or less be "sheltered" from the poverty? If I'm interpreting your words correctly, that's REALLY good information for me.

[middle-aged mom]

I agree with Localady; comparatively speaking, you will not see much poverty in the ports you visit with HAL on the Mexican Riviera. Nothing compared to what I've seen firsthand in Mozambique, Liberia, India, and elsewhere. Our concept of "poverty" is relative, anyway. What we might consider destitution would be considered comfortably middle-class elsewhere.

[localady]

I can't say that you will see no poverty and yes, kids and adults will come up to you on the public beaches selling every trinket imaginable. Most are easily appeased with a "No gracias".
We found all three ports to be rich in history
but surprisingly modern with Puerto Vallarta being the most modern. Hooters or Wal- Mart anyone ?? ;) :D

[the2ofus]

Go with an open mind. Understand that the local economy and the climate influence the lifestyles and the living conditions of the people who are residents of the region. Understand that as m-o-m said, poverty is relative.

If you must give help, give before you leave home, through a charity you have researched thoroughly which makes sure the money goes where it is needed most in the region. Then, when you see a situation that concerns you, be comforted by knowing you have already acted. When you return home you can always add to your contribution.

[Sailorgirlseattle]

This is a tough question, and I've grappled with it too. We were in Mexico a year ago and I got a bit upset in Mazatlan seeing some beggars outside the department store and public market in the old town section. So I know exactly what you mean. For some silly reason, it took me completely by surprise when I saw these people.

My advice if you don't want the "exposure" is to take a cab directly to the resorts and stay in the really touristy areas of the city. You will still see vendors, and have to say a lot of "no, gracias" but you may also want to buy an item or two from some of them and that can be a gratifying experience in itself. You just have to steel yourself to it, and realize that by simply being there, you are pumping money into their economy and that SHOULD be beneficial to all.

[Roz]

I saw far less poverty on the Mexican Riviera than I did in the Caribbean. There are beggars on the streets of the US city where I live.

Roz

[Sundagger]

People cruise for all sorts of reasons - from reading a variety of CC boards, most want to see the tourist sights, some have said that they "put their brain in vacation mode" when they board, particularly in the Caribbean where sun and fun are the main attractions for most.

Long ago, I lived in Puerto Rico for a few years and visited some of the other islands - as varied as St. Thomas and Haiti. On my first cruise (in 2000), my style of cruising was set when my friend and I decided to see the people on the islands instead of hitting the jewelry stores. We headed off to the parts of towns where the locals shopped, ate and drank, and few cruiseline passengers ventured. Some places were fascinating and some pretty dull. We did find some terrific bargains in small shops and open-air markets. There were fewer beggars than around the terminals.

I've never taken an excursion - just have walked around all the ports - haven't been in a Senor Frog's or Carlos and Charlies. I've never felt threatened in any place and am comfortable with all levels of society. I wouldn't expect most people to enjoy traveling in the manner in which I do or even to completely understand why I do it.

It's best to decide in advance of a vacation what you want to do and decide how you are going to get to what you want and don't be overly distracted by unexpected intrusions. Every person has a certain comfort zone and most vacations can be planned to live within that zone.

[Ine]

I saw far less poverty on the Mexican Riviera than I did in the Caribbean. There are beggars on the streets of the US city where I live.

Roz

I agrre. I have been to the USA and Mexico various times and have seen poverty around.
Seeing quite some home-less people in the streets in the USA (also begging sometimes) was I think more shocking then those in Mexico.
If you want to donate do it to a charity-fund or local institution.
It doesnot help to buy stuff from kids, that way you encourage parents (or others) to earn money by using them.

[betonic]

I live in Cancun and have travelled all over Mexico. I agree that there are poor people in many parts of my country but you won't find it too much if you stay close to the cruise ports.

We just came home from and Alaska cruise and while in Seattle we were approached by more beggars and "strange people" than I have every experienced in any Mexican City. We went to dinner in Chinatown and when we were waiting for our driver a obviously drug addicted person begged us for our leftovers and then wouldn't leave us alone. We finally went back in the restaurant to wait.

Another story that comes to mind took place in Monterrey, Mexico. I used to travel for business weekly and I always saw the same woman with her 2 babies begging around the corner from my hotel. At the time, my son was very young and I was really effected by this so I started bringing used baby clothes and a little money every trip. Then one day I went to lunch with the hotel's manager and when we walked by the woman he told me to never give her anything!! I was so shocked by his attitude until he told me that he had offered this woman's husband a job at the hotel and he declined because his wife was making "enough" in the street. The moral of the story is that when you see people begging it's not always the way it seems.

Take your cruise, enjoy yourself and don't worry about things that you can't change.

[casavaha]

My suggestion would be to take the money you were going to spend on the
cruise and give it to some local charities in your area. There is so much
poverty in the US, I sure you could find someone you could help.

[hammybee]

Anyone remember the front page pictures of NOLA, that shocked the world?

[babyher]

We go into NYC quite often . It seems like every street corner has someone laying on an old blanket or bunch of newspapers with cup and a handwritten sign explaining some tale of woe and a plea for money.

If you gave to everyone of them, before long you would be one of those people out there with the cup.

The best thing you can do is give as much as you can afford to a reputable charity

[CowPrincess]

the2ofus said:

If you must give help, give before you leave home, through a charity you have researched thoroughly which makes sure the money goes where it is needed most in the region. Then, when you see a situation that concerns you, be comforted by knowing you have already acted. When you return home you can always add to your contribution.


I took this suggestion and started researching pet/companion animal shelters and groups. (Thank you, a GREAT idea!!!) I'm especially concerned about cats and dogs, because I know that USA, Canada, Gr Britain are light years ahead in our treatment of pets. I found one place in Mazatlan that invites drop-in volunteers, so if we go, I will contact them prior and spend my day in Mazatlan doing hands-on work at the animal shelter. Along with a donation to a charity.

Thank you ALL for your replies

Casavaha said:

My suggestion would be to take the money you were going to spend on the
cruise and give it to some local charities in your area. There is so much
poverty in the US, I sure you could find someone you could help.


I think we have some sort of communication problem, as you sound as though I have offended you, and it was never my intent to offend. I merely wanted to discuss and learn, and get others' perspectives.

[Copper10-8]

I remember hearing on more than one ocassion from licensend tour guides in Mexico to please not give money to those kids with the big brown eyes who are begging and/or peddling bead bracelets and packets of chicklets gum. Why? Because Mum and Dad standing/sitting nearby were/are purposely keeping their offspring out of school in order to try to collect money from tourists.

[localady]

I live in Cancun and have travelled all over Mexico. I agree that there are poor people in many parts of my country but you won't find it too much if you stay close to the cruise ports.

We just came home from and Alaska cruise and while in Seattle we were approached by more beggars and "strange people" than I have every experienced in any Mexican City. We went to dinner in Chinatown and when we were waiting for our driver a obviously drug addicted person begged us for our leftovers and then wouldn't leave us alone. We finally went back in the restaurant to wait.

Another story that comes to mind took place in Monterrey, Mexico. I used to travel for business weekly and I always saw the same woman with her 2 babies begging around the corner from my hotel. At the time, my son was very young and I was really effected by this so I started bringing used baby clothes and a little money every trip. Then one day I went to lunch with the hotel's manager and when we walked by the woman he told me to never give her anything!! I was so shocked by his attitude until he told me that he had offered this woman's husband a job at the hotel and he declined because his wife was making "enough" in the street. The moral of the story is that when you see people begging it's not always the way it seems.

Take your cruise, enjoy yourself and don't worry about things that you can't change.

Betonic- I have to agree with you...walking home from work late in the Financial District of San Francisco brought out scarier homeless folks and beggars than any of the Mexican ports I've been to...:eek:
Great to hear that you just finished cruising again... hugs too you and Roberto !!

Cow Princess-
You all are to be commended to wanting to give back. We were blessed to take a Christmas cruise with our kids into the Western Caribbean. We decided that instead of getting presents for each other, we would give back to a local community. We bought 13 boxes of food supplies and donated it to an orphanage in Roatan, Honduras. Our family visit there was the best day of our entire cruise!!:D :D

[casavaha]

For those of you who have driven across the border in Tijuana, you have
seen the women with babies begging on the streets and at the crossing
lanes. I know for a fact that many of these beggers have real estate in
TJ and make over $100US per day. Of course many of these children
are rented, that is an overhead.

I am not offended but I get very upset when people talk about the
poverty in Mexico. There are thousands of jobs every day in Tijuana that
are not filled because there is a shortage of persons who want to work.

Most of you do not understand Mexico. You see many shacks or
substandard homes on the hillsides in the cities. But
those homes are owned by the occupants. There is not alot of credit
in Mexico. Right now there are over 20,000 units of housing being built
per year in Tijuana. While these are small (400 to 500 sq feet per house)
they are a big improvement for many people.

Before you criticize Mexico, look around at your own city.

Mexico has many problems but they are working to solve them.

[localady]

I remember hearing on more than one ocassion from licensend tour guides in Mexico to please not give money to those kids with the big brown eyes who are begging and/or peddling bead bracelets and packets of chicklets gum. Why? Because Mum and Dad standing/sitting nearby were/are purposely keeping their offspring out of school in order to try to collect money from tourists.

I have heard that also John....

Funny it seems like the peddlers were adults the last couple of times. One older male tried to sell us Yummers a "Rolex" real cheap;) . Hopefully this is a sign that the kids are in school!

[CowPrincess]

Most of you do not understand Mexico. You see many shacks or
substandard homes on the hillsides in the cities. But
those homes are owned by the occupants. There is not alot of credit
in Mexico. Right now there are over 20,000 units of housing being built
per year in Tijuana. While these are small (400 to 500 sq feet per house)
they are a big improvement for many people.



My original post was not intended as criticism, it was about my concerns about MY responses to seeing poverty and unfamiliar living conditions. I haven't seen anyone here criticizing Mexico. They've made comments about their impressions, and passed along information.

Because I don't "understand" Mexico, I wanted and needed information. How else can one come to understanding, if not by increasing one's knowledge?


Before you criticize Mexico, look around at your own city.

Mexico has many problems but they are working to solve them.


Again, I do not believe anyone was criticizing Mexico. People have made comments about their experiences and I appreciate that. All countries have problems, all cities have problems. But walking down the street and seeing where I live, our problems are not visible. Whereas in Mexico, my concern was that the beggars and sellers and visibly disadvantaged and stray animals in the streets would force me to not rejoin the cruise, and spend the rest of my life trying to help Mexico solve some of those problems. Or get back on the ship and spend weeks in tears from a feeling of helplessness.

Either you "get" me or you don't. But there's no need to feel that your country is being criticized. And if anything I've said makes you think that I am criticizing Mexico, I apologize. It was never intended that way.

[PathfinderEss]

DH thinks our next cruise should be to Mexico -- he wants a WARM place this time.

I'm more than a bit concerned that the poverty there will affect my enjoyment. I posted on the Mexico board, and got a number of responses that were along the line of "If you spend money in Mexico you are helping the economy". That doesn't really help me, though, in that when faced with people who need help, I want to help right then, concretely.

As a point of reference, on one land-based vacation, I spent more than half my vacation rescuing a puppy and finding a home for it.

Has anyone else had these reservations? If you did, how did you overcome them? Or did you go despite hesitation and have a fabulous vacation or the worst vacation of your life?

Any help and/or insights from my fellow HAL cruisers would be appreciated!
We travel Mexico quite often as we live in California and its so easy for us. You will not find poverty in the ports Hal goes to, in fact they are doing very well as another poster posted, it realy is booming in place like PV, Cabo, Mazatlan. I'm sure if you were to go inland you will find poverty, but it has improved so much over the years we've been going down there, we can hardly recognized the area's anymore, and it is really nice to see them doing so well. I think you will have a very nice warm vacation in Mexico.
If you really don't like seeing poverty don't go to Nicaragua

[sassyredhat]

Mike always tells me that I can't save everyone, so I try to pick just one person or thing to focus on.

Pat