Dress Code

[Janet-TX]

How "formal" are the formal nights? Would a sports coat without tie fly?

[grandsix]

Follow the suggested dress code for the evening and you can not go wrong.

[larsenbiz]

I usually wear a cocktail dress and my husband wears a dark suit with a tie. I don't think that a sportcoat without a tie would count as formal. My husband and I really like the formal nights because we can get all shiny:) ! We don't get much of an opportunity to dress up at home.

[RevNeal]

How "formal" are the formal nights? Would a sports coat without tie fly?

Not according to the Dress Code. However, I don't think that's the essence of your question, is it? Unless I'm mistaken, you're wanting to know if it will "fly" ... i.e., be acceptable or in accord with what other men are doing. Right?

I wish I could help you on that one, but I can't. The degree of Dress Code observance is an unknown variable on most HAL cruises. What one actually sees will vary from sailing to sailing, and it's impossible to determine what you will get by time of the year, itinerary, ship, past experience (i.e, what I, or anyone else, might say they once saw on a similar cruise) or any other factor. It's a "whim of the people" thing. I can give a few "rules of thumb," but those will be highly subjective at best.

Perhaps it would be best to just quote HAL's Dress Code for the evening hours, and go from there:

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and sports shirt or sweater for men and skirt or trousers and sweater or blouse for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen usually wear a suit and tie or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

Wearing a jacket without a tie wouldn't, strictly speaking, be in accord with the Dress Code. The usual interpretation of the above is that "jacket and tie" is the minimal standard for men on Formal Nights. One might well be able to "get by" with less, but that's not in keeping with the spirit or letter of the code.

In the end, the decision is up to you (or, if not you, then the man in question). I've seen men turned away from the main dining room for not having a jacket on; I've never seen a man turned away for not having a tie on. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I've just never seen it. And, quite frankly, why risk it? Ties don't weigh much, nor do they take up space in one's luggage.

[RevNeal]

Oh, and by the way ... what you describe is, essentially, what HAL used to call "Informal." The difference between "Informal" and "Formal" was precisely what you are asking about ... the wearing of a tie. With a jacket but without a tie, a man was "Informal"; add a tie and the man qualified for "Formal." That distinction is no longer present, since "Informal" isn't a part of the Code any longer. However, it is instructive to see that such a distinction used to be made, and that distinction constituted the difference between two different Codes of dress.

Again, the decision is up to you. Welcome to the HAL board!

[cruiserfromohio]

Assuming you don't care what your husband wears, he can get away with a dark sport coat -- like navy blue -- and coordinated dress slacks -- gray comes to mind. You will probably see at least 4 or 5 men dressed like that.

I would not wear an obviously sporty coat. It won't cause the HAL fashion police to arrest you, but it will make you feel out of place.

I could never get away with a sport coat. My wife would throw a rather large fit. She REALLY enjoys dressing up for formal nights and expects me to complement her outfit -- i.e. a tux or at least a dark suit if I don't have a clean tux shirt.

Formal dress code is becoming increasingly ill-defined, so you have some flexibility, but part of the fun is dressing up and keeping the women happy!

[RevNeal]

Assuming you don't care what your husband wears, he can get away with a dark sport coat -- like navy blue -- and coordinated dress slacks -- gray comes to mind. You will probably see at least 4 or 5 men dressed like that.

I would not wear an obviously sporty coat. It won't cause the HAL fashion police to arrest you, but it will make you feel out of place.

I could never get away with a sport coat. My wife would throw a rather large fit. She REALLY enjoys dressing up for formal nights and expects me to complement her outfit -- i.e. a tux or at least a dark suit if I don't have a clean tux shirt.

Formal dress code is becoming increasingly ill-defined, so you have some flexibility, but part of the fun is dressing up and keeping the women happy!

LOL ... as I say in every wedding sermon:

To the Bride: "Always remember that your new husband gets the last two words in any argument."

To the Groom: "Always remember that your last two words in any argument must be "Yes Dear.""

[O2B@C]

I wouldn't mind dressing up for formal night, but my DH absolutely refuses. And frankly, I would be very uncomfortable going to the dining room on formal night with an escort who is not abiding by the dress code.

Fortunately, HAL does provide two alternatives for folks like us. I would recommend that you give them serious consideration.

First, you can eat dinner in the Lido on formal nights without wearing formal night clothes. Not that you should go there looking like a slob, but you can wear basically the same sort of clothes that you would wear in the dining room on "smart casual" nights. At dinnertime, the Lido is a semi-buffet - you pick up your own starters, but your main course is cooked to order and brought to your table. The menu is usually more or less the same as in the dining room, though with one or two fewer choices.

Second, you can order room service (either from the room service menu, or, if you call in your order promptly after the dining room first opens for dinner, from the dining room menu). Then you can wear whatever you like (as long as it won't embarrass the room service steward:p ). This is free, but most people tip the steward a few dollars when he brings the meal.

HAL's evening dress code applies in all indoor public areas of the ship, except the Lido restaurant. So technically, if you don't dress to code on formal nights, you shouldn't plan on going to the shows, bars, casino, etc. before or after dinner. However, I personally think that outside the dining room, people are less likely to notice if your DH doesn't have a tie on, as long as you are otherwise dressed to code. For all they know, he wore a tie to dinner and then took it off and stuck it in his pocket! :D That's not to say I'm recommending this, just that I think it would be more likely to "fly" than appearing tie-less in the dining room.

And, of course, there are alternative after-dinner activities also - walking the deck; viewing a movie or DVD in your cabin; or spending a little private quality time with your spouse.;)

Please don't get too hung up on this issue. It's not that big a deal - formal nights are such a small portion of the time you spend on board, and it's really easy to avoid them if you prefer to do so. Enjoy your cruise!

[twinkletoes4445]

LOL ... as I say in every wedding sermon:

To the Bride: "Always remember that your new husband gets the last two words in any argument."

To the Groom: "Always remember that your last two words in any argument must be "Yes Dear.""

That's good. I just LOVE your sense of humor. :)

[twinkletoes4445]

How "formal" are the formal nights? Would a sports coat without tie fly?

On our 7-day Caribbean cruise we saw lots of suits, very few tuxes, and quite a few dark slacks/dark sports jacket/tie. If he really doesn't want to go the suit/tux route and wants to dine in the dining room on formal nights, I'd probably go the jacket/pants/tie route.

I had a somewhat similar problem recently. Hubby decided he doesn't want to dress or attend formal nights in the dining room. He wore suits forever at the office, and we seem to do a lot of functions that require suits and tuxes and he just doesn't want to do this on his vacation. For me, I pick my battles. He agreed to do this 10-day cruise, and my goal is to get him OUT of the office for more vacations, so I'm going to go along with this. I love to dress up...and I love when he's wearing his tux, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm still going to be on a 10-day cruise (woo-hoo), so I'll bend like a Willow. :)

Here's what we're doing...

We're either going to dine in our cabin or in the Lido on formal nights. I actually have warmed up to this in-cabin-idea, and am actually looking forward to it. We've got a suite, and there's plenty of room, so it will be fine.

Anyway, I told him that at the very least he has to bring along a nice jacket, a nice tie, and a nice pair of dress slacks (all of which he has tons) in the event we should decide to leave our cabin on formal nights. I'm also bringing along something nice, that I can wear, if we do do this.

So if you want to dine in the dining room on formal nights, I'd at least have him bring a jacket/tie/slacks. :)

Have a wonderful cruise...and welcome to the HAL board. :)

[schoolinmy3]

I wouldn't mind dressing up for formal night, but my DH absolutely refuses. And frankly, I would be very uncomfortable going to the dining room on formal night with an escort who is not abiding by the dress code.

Please don't get too hung up on this issue. It's not that big a deal - formal nights are such a small portion of the time you spend on board, and it's really easy to avoid them if you prefer to do so. Enjoy your cruise!

My husband is required to dress business casual for work (Dockers and button down long sleeve shirt) and we have several Bible meetings per week that he wears a suit. He doesn't want to dress up on vacation! He has agreed to attend one formal night on our first cruise.:) I, on the other hand, love dressing up.
diane

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

...really apllicable to HAL these days. We enjoy dressing up, however other's choose not to follow the suggested guidelines for the evening.

Not a major concern IMO. Heck, we feel great when doing so, so that's all that matters in our little world.

Just an FYI as it once was for 'cruise's & other 'important / special' events:


Black tie (Formal):

Black tie is the men’s dress code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_code) term for formal evening dress composed of a dinner jacket suit comprising a jacket and matching trousers; tuxedo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuxedo_%28clothing%29) in Canada and the U.S. Currently, black tie is worn to many types of social functions; women's corresponding evening dress ranges from a conservative cocktail dress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_dress) to the long evening gown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evening_gown) determined per current fashion, local custom, and the occasion's time.

The elements of black tie

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1b/Mulroney_reagan.jpg/150px-Mulroney_reagan.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mulroney_reagan.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mulroney_reagan.jpg)
U.S. President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._President) Ronald Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan) and Canadian Prime Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Prime_Minister) Brian Mulroney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Mulroney) in black tie.


Unlike white tie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_tie), a man has sartorial options in choosing his dinner jacket and accessories. The elements of a traditional black-tie ensemble are:

Short or medium black jacket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacket) which may have grosgrain- or satin-faced lapels
Black trousers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers) with silk braids matching the lapels
A black cummerbund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummerbund) or a low-cut waistcoat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waistcoat)
A white dress shirt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress_shirt) with either a marcella or a pleated front
A black silk bow tie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowtie)
Black dress socks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock), often made of silk
Black patent leather (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_leather) shoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoes) or highly polished black leather shoesJacket

The typical black-tie jacket is single-breasted, ventless, constructed of black, or midnight blue wool, which may be faced with either grosgrain (ribbed silk) or satin. The most traditional lapel type is the peaked lapel, derived from its tailcoat predecessor; the shawl collar (with rounded lapels) is used also. Currently, both styles can be either single- or double-breasted. A third lapel style, the notched lapel, is an American innovation; disdained by purists for its lounge suit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lounge_suit) derivation, it is has been accepted by other authorities as "a legitimate...less formal alternative."[1] (http://www.blacktieguide.com/Contemporary/Jacket.htm) The traditional single-breasted jacket has a single-button closure, with two-button variants sometimes seen; jackets incorporating more buttons are fashion fads. (Also see: smoking jacket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_jacket))
The colour black may have a green hue in artificial light, if aesthetically unacceptable to the man, midnight blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_blue) (introduced by the Prince of Wales) is the acceptable alternative colour; other colours are fads.
The white dinner jacket is often worn in warm climates. The American colour exceptions are its use in the celebratory high school graduation promenade dance, or "prom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prom)", and concert conductors, i.e. the Last Night. In the U.S. and Canada a white dinner jacket is traditionally worn only from Memorial Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day) in the spring to Labor Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day) in late summer, this rule applies also to white summer clothes (shoes, suits, et cetera).
Stylistically, it is bad form (ill-mannered) for a man to take off his jacket during a black-tie social event; but when hot weather and humidity dictate, the ranking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_rank) man (of the royal family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_family), the guest of honour (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guest_of_honor&action=edit&redlink=1)) may give men permission by noticeably taking off his jacket. In anticipated hot weather Red Sea rig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea_rig) is specified in the invitation, although this dress is esoteric in civilian circles, and is particular to certain communities.

Trousers

Black-tie suit trousers have no turn-ups (cuffs) or belt loops. The outer leg seams may be decorated with a single, silk braid matching the lapel facing. Customarily, braces (suspenders in the U.S.) hold up the trousers; they are hidden either by the waistcoat, which may be backless, or by the coat: hence it is bad social form for a man to take off his coat. Recently, flat-front, pleatless trousers feature in some styles of dinner dress; like all innovations in formal wear the feature's appropriateness is debated.

Waistcoat or Cummerbund

The waist is dressed in either a waistcoat (vest) or a cummerbund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummerbund) (not both) when wearing a single-breasted coat. Usually, the waistcoat is low-cut, has a three-button stance, and of the same cloth as the jacket. The cummerbund sash (from military dress uniform in British India) is worn pleats up, and is of the same cloth as the bow tie and lapels. (White waistcoats with black tie are a rare alternative.)

Shirt

The Shirt is conventionally white or off-white (cotton, linen, silk) and its front either is cotton marcella (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cotton_marcella&action=edit&redlink=1) (as in white tie) or pleated.
Before World War II, stiff shirts with separate wing collars were the norm. Today, semi-stiff shirts with attached wing collars are the U.S. norm; a shirt with a fold-down collar is the U.K. norm. The original, and most formal, version of the dress shirt usually fastens with matching shirt studs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirt_stud) and cuff links. In lieu of studs, a buttoned shirt with either a fly-front placket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placket) or a French front (sans placket) is worn. Soft shirts have French cuffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_cuff), stiff shirts (as in white tie) have single cuffs fastened with cuff links.

Bow Tie

The Bow Tie is typically made of silk barathea (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barathea&action=edit&redlink=1) or satin and is knotted by hand. It is considered poor form and déclassé by some to wear a commercially pre-knotted clip-on or hook fastened bow tie, especially when the clips or (hook-and-buckle) fastener shows.

Footwear

Traditionally, the most formal shoes are patent-leather opera pumps (court shoes) decorated with a ribbed silk bow, as worn with white tie; they are uncommon today. A popular, formal alternative is the black leather lace-up Oxford shoe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_shoe), often in patent leather (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_leather), but without a toe cap or decorative brogueing. Too-informal for black tie are shoes with open lacing, i.e. "Derbies" in the U.K., "bluchers" in the U.S. An exceedingly rare alternative is the black button boot.
Hosiery should be black, knee-high, ribbed silk socks.

Accessories

Handkerchief and Boutonniere: A white handkerchief (cotton, linen or silk) and/or a boutonniere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boutonniere) (a blue cornflower, red or white carnation, or a rosebud.) may be worn on the coat.
Outerwear: In cold weather a chesterfield overcoat, gray gloves, and a white silk scarf are worn.
Hat: Black tie has no standard hat. If one is worn, it usually is a black homburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homburg_%28hat%29) or trilby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilby) in winter; in summer, a straw boater is acceptable. Top hats are worn only with white tie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_tie) and morning dress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_dress).
Timepiece: If worn, a wristwatch should be slender, plain, and elegant; alternatively, a pocket watch may be worn on the waistcoat. Traditionally, however, visible timepieces are not worn with formal evening dress, because timekeeping is not considered a priority.
Decorations and orders: Military, civil, and organisational decorations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_decoration) usually worn only to formal events of State or other sovereign organisation. Miniature orders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_%28decoration%29) and awards are typically worn on the left breast or left lapel of the jacket, and neck badges, breast stars, and sashes are worn according to country-specific or organisational regulations.

Black-Tie Social Occasions

Black tie is worn to private and public dinners, dances, and parties. At the formal end of the social spectrum, it replaced white tie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_tie) where it once was de rigueur dress (e.g. for orchestra conductors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conducting)).
Black tie is evening dress, worn only after six o'clock in the evening, or after sundown during winter months. Black tie's daytime equivalents are morning dress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_dress) for formal daytime events, or the stroller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroller_%28style%29) for semi-formal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-formal) day events.

Black Tie in public perception

Given the nature of black tie social dress, the dinner jacket is considered exclusive; ownership is a statement of caste.
Some deride the dinner jacket as "penguin suit", connoting conformism.Corresponding forms of dress


Mess dress

In dining out formally, the armed forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces) officer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer_%28armed_forces%29) and non-commissioned officer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-commissioned_officer) normally wears a mess uniform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mess_dress) equivalent to the civilian black tie and evening dress. Stylistically, the mess uniform varies according to the wearer's regiment or corps, but usually comprises a short Eton-style coat reaching to the waist. Some include white shirts, black bow ties, and low-cut waistcoats, while others feature high collars that fasten around the neck and corresponding high-gorge waistcoats. Usually, mess uniforms are brightly-coloured (in the British Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army) scarlet is most common) and ornamented with gold and lace and gilt buttons, all corresponding to the colours of the regiment or corps of the wearer.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/David_McLeod.JPG/110px-David_McLeod.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:David_McLeod.JPG) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:David_McLeod.JPG)
Formal black tie Highland regalia, kilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilt) and Prince Charlie jacket.


In the Royal Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy) there is a distinction between "mess dress", which is worn at white tie events, and "mess undress", which is worn at black tie events. Both are worn with a black bow tie, however mess dress is worn with a white waistcoat instead of the usual colour, and may be worn with a stiff shirt and wing collar. The stiff shirt and wing collar were abolished for mess undress in the 1960s, and were made optional for mess dress in the 1990s.

Red Sea rig

In tropical areas, primarily in Western diplomatic and expatriate communities, the jacket and waistcoat are sometimes omitted and a cummerbund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummerbund) substituted. This form of black tie is known as Red Sea rig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea_rig).

West Coast Black Tie

West Coast Black Tie is an American formal social occasion where a wide variety of formal evening dress colours and suit styles is acceptable. Likely originating in the Hollywood movie business, it currently is used broadly throughout California to accommodate the personal whims of the wearer. Variations include mandarin collars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_collar), Nehru jackets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehru_jacket), silver or gold neckties, open collars, and other items which may be considered un-traditional, declassé, and faddish. In this style of evening dress, besides the bow tie, the four-in-hand-knotted long necktie is common evening wear.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Scottish Highland dress

Scottish Highland dress is often worn to black- and white tie occasions, especially at Scottish reels and céilidhs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9ilidh); the black tie version is more common, even at white tie occasions. Traditionally, black tie Scots Highland dress comprises:

Black jacket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublet) — Prince Charlie, Duke of Montrose, Sheriffmuir, Argyll, Regulation Doublet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublet), and Brian Boru are suitable (a black or red mess jacket is also an option)
Black waistcoat
Kilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilt)
White shirt
Black bow tie
Black Ghillie brogues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghillie_brogues) or black dress shoes
Kilt hose (monochrome, diced, tartan)
Flashes
Dress sporran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporran)
Skean dubh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgian_Dubh) (optional)
Dirk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk) (optional)Traditional black tie Lowland dress comprises: black tie variant of the normal black tie, with tartan trews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trews) worn with a normal dinner jacket or a Prince Charlie jacket; trews are often worn in summer and warm climes.
The white tie equivalent is a white bow tie or a lace jabot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabot_%28neckwear%29) over a collarless shirt. Regulation Doublets, Prince Charlie, Duke of Montrose, Sheriffmuir, and Argyll jackets are suitable.

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)

[RevNeal]

Thanks for the little haute couture lesson, prescottbob. I don't think there is any real question around here that what HAL has set as the minimum for "Formal Night Attire" is, in any way, equivalent to real "Form Attire" ("Black Tie" or otherwise). The closest I come to "Black Tie" is when I'm dressed in my Tuxedo with white wing shirt, black bow tie, and Cummerbund. Even then I've been "instructed" by some that what I'm wearing isn't a "real" tuxedo and that my bow tie should not be pre-tied but sloppily hand-tied. Some people just are never satisfied. :D Of course, if push comes to shove, I can always don a black suite, white neckband clergy shirt with cufflinks, and a black formal clerical vest and be "Clergy Formal" in a way that such mavens can't! :D

The point that I was making in my first response to the OP was that what HAL outlines in their dress code sets the minimal standard at "jacket and tie" (with, of course, shirt, pants, and shoes (of some kind)!). :D

[kakalina]

A few of you have mentioned your alternatives when only one of the couple want to dress up. We have managed something different. DH doesn't like to dress formally. I do. We have agreed that on formal nights we eat apart. He eats in the Lido and I eat in the DR and we meet later and go to the casino or whatever. It works for us.

[RevNeal]

A few of you have mentioned your alternatives when only one of the couple want to dress up. We have managed something different. DH doesn't like to dress formally. I do. We have agreed that on formal nights we eat apart. He eats in the Lido and I eat in the DR and we meet later and go to the casino or whatever. It works for us.

"Till Death or Dress Codes do you part." ?? ;)

[world~citizen]

Ahoy!

Just an FYI as it once was for 'cruise's & other 'important / special' events:...

Bob:)

Thanks Bob. A lot of really interesting information here.

Smooth sailing to you.

[kakalina]

"Till Death or Dress Codes do you part." ?? ;)

Aw c'mon Rev. We're retired. I see him 24/7, a night apart is good thing once in awhile ;) . Gives you something new to add to the conversation.:D

[Opinions]

Wearing a jacket without a tie wouldn't, strictly speaking, be in accord with the Dress Code. The usual interpretation of the above is that "jacket and tie" is the minimal standard for men on Formal Nights. One might well be able to "get by" with less, but that's not in keeping with the spirit or letter of the code.



Wouldn't also a lady wearing pants and a dressy top also not be in keeping with the spirt or letter of the code...I saw many ladies dressed this way on my recent HAL cruise on formal night...Including my wife...When HAL uses words like "usually wear" there are going to different interpretations of the "code"...But on these boards it seems the men are held to a different standard.

[schoolinmy3]

A few of you have mentioned your alternatives when only one of the couple want to dress up. We have managed something different. DH doesn't like to dress formally. I do. We have agreed that on formal nights we eat apart. He eats in the Lido and I eat in the DR and we meet later and go to the casino or whatever. It works for us.

That is quite a good idea! Not only does my husband not prefer to dress up he also doesn't prefer fancy food. He's been known to order a hamburger even when not on the menu. Once, when our daughter was still in a high chair eating baby food he ordered her a hamburger off the kids menu (for himself:D ). I may try dining alone if he doesn't mind.:rolleyes: It's our first cruise (for our 20th anniversary) and I plan to enjoy myself. I chose HAL because 40 years ago this summer my parents immigrated on the SS Rotterdam from Holland. I have the original booking document. So we're really celebrating 2 anniversaries!

diane

[Copper10-8]

..............Even then I've been "instructed" by some that what I'm wearing isn't a "real" tuxedo and that my bow tie should not be pre-tied but sloppily hand-tied. Some people just are never satisfied. .................

My money is on cousin Christopher; what did I win?;)

[jimgev]

I guess I have to offer a different perspective.
I choose to cruise on a more traditional carrier BECAUSE of the dress codes and the formal nights. I find that link with past elegance to be refreshingly appealing in a world of politically correct infomality.
If I wanted to have a more informal experience, I would choose a different cruise line that catered to that demographic.
There are so many choices of cruise lines now that cater to a full range of potential experiences. I would not want to force my preferences on a cruise that expresses a decidedly informal experience.
I can't see why those wishing an informal experience would object to the stated objectives of a more formal cruise experience.
I have no problem at all with people not comfortable with the traditional aspects partaking in a traditional cruise. But they should have respect for those who do honor the traditional aspects.
Just my opinion.
Jim


If the main dining seating attire s not comfortable, there are other options such as Lido or room service.

[RevNeal]

Aw c'mon Rev. We're retired. I see him 24/7, a night apart is good thing once in awhile ;) . Gives you something new to add to the conversation.:D

LOL!
I hear ya.
You remind me of my parents. From time to time my Dad would decide we wanted a burger for dinner ... but mom didn't. SO, they would go their separate ways for meals. In their case, it didn't have anything to do with dress codes. :D

[RevNeal]

Wouldn't also a lady wearing pants and a dressy top also not be in keeping with the spirt or letter of the code...I saw many ladies dressed this way on my recent HAL cruise on formal night...Including my wife...When HAL uses words like "usually wear" there are going to different interpretations of the "code"...But on these boards it seems the men are held to a different standard.

I hear/read ya. I don't know anything about women's clothing styles ... just what I see and what I think looks "good." Ask the women folk about that.

As for the stricter standard for men ... yep; on this point, yes.

[RevNeal]

My money is on cousin Christopher; what did I win?;)


How much money did you have on him ... because you lost. :)
Christopher wears a Neru Tuxedo (which he made, himself) with a mandarin collar ... so his style is even further removed from the traditional standard than is mine. His personal opinion on the subject is that too many people take these issues way too seriously. And, he's right.

No ... it was some guy on the Ryndam back in 2007. I'm not sure why he felt compelled to tell me I wasn't "wearing true Formal Wear," but I did ask him if he ever frequented Cruise Critic and he said he'd never heard of it (so THAT's not the reason).

[world~citizen]

Wouldn't also a lady wearing pants and a dressy top also not be in keeping with the spirt or letter of the code...I saw many ladies dressed this way on my recent HAL cruise on formal night...Including my wife...When HAL uses words like "usually wear" there are going to different interpretations of the "code"...But on these boards it seems the men are held to a different standard.

With respect to the "spirit" of the dress code, as I read it, there is not a lot of room for ambiguity. Having said that, HAL does not enforce the dress code with an iron fist, or even equally across ships. I think it is fair to say though, that HAL gets the message across with respect to what it thinks "formal" attire means.

As to men being held to a different standard, I have to admit I am not exactly sure to what you are referring.

Smooth sailing to you.

[babyher]

Aw c'mon Rev. We're retired. I see him 24/7, a night apart is good thing once in awhile ;) . Gives you something new to add to the conversation.:D


*LOL*

DW and I haven't done the separate dinners yet:)

But I will say that having separate televisions has been a Godsend *LOL*

[Copper10-8]

................
But I will say that having separate televisions has been a Godsend *LOL*

Awesome! I'm a member of that Club!;) Great TV commercials also i.e. the guys watching the ballgame in the Dept/clothing store while the spouses are shopping

How much money did you have on him ... because you lost. :)


Shucks, I thought I had him down pat

[RevNeal]

Shucks, I thought I had him down pat


Just so long as you don't pat him down when you meet him, everything will be copacetic. :D

Seriously, now ... why would you think that it would be him?

[Copper10-8]

Just so long as you don't pat him down when you meet him, everything will be copacetic. :D

Seriously, now ... why would you think that it would be him?

Because you've been describing him here as a Haute Couture

[babyher]

Awesome! I'm a member of that Club!;) Great TV commercials also i.e. the guys watching the ballgame in the Dept/clothing store while the spouses are shopping



Shucks, I thought I had him down pat



Ahhhhhhhhh see that is why she has girlfriends , to go shopping with :) while I stay home and watch the game .

She owns the TV in the bedroom, I own the TV in the den.

I have the "Parental Lock" on "Lifetime " and "WE" and Channel 7 (Oprah , Grey's Anatomy, and Desperate Housewives ) on mine.

She has it on "TCM" "YES" and "The Military Channel" on hers *LOL*

[babyher]

With respect to the "spirit" of the dress code, as I read it, there is not a lot of room for ambiguity. Having said that, HAL does not enforce the dress code with an iron fist, or even equally across ships. I think it is fair to say though, that HAL gets the message across with respect to what it thinks "formal" attire means.

As to men being held to a different standard, I have to admit I am not exactly sure to what you are referring.

Smooth sailing to you.


Men have only one way to go in regards to "Formal" ....Jacket and tie, (be it a tux, suit, or sport jacket.

Women's "Formal" can be short sleeved , sleeveless, off the shoulder, whatever. fancy blouse and a skirt of varying length , fancy blouse and nice slacks.

[teltrainer]

HI,

Whether they enforce or not is the question unfortunately. However, just received this in response to my inquiry sent to HAL online support and thought I'd share...

We would like to reassure you that Holland America Line has not plans now or in the future to cancel formals nights. We have changed our dress code and that information is as follows:

Our dress code has been divided into two types: Formal and Smart Casual.

Formal:
For ladies, cocktail dresses or suits are appropriate.
For gentlemen, jacket and tie are required. Dark suit or tuxedo suggested.

Smart Casual:
For ladies, casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear are appropriate.
For gentlemen, slacks and collared shirts are suggested.

No shorts, t-shirts or tank tops please.

[Opinions]

HI,


Our dress code has been divided into two types: Formal and Smart Casual.



On my recent cruise on the Zuiderdam they added a third type.
Formal/Optional...As they explained one could wear either Formal or Smart Casual that night.

[teltrainer]

interesting...was that on a 7 day cruise? Was that in addition to the usual formal nights (ie a third night option?)

Thanks!

[NoNoNanette]

Hi Jim:

I choose to cruise on a more traditional carrier BECAUSE of the dress codes and the formal nights. I find that link with past elegance to be refreshingly appealing in a world of politically correct infomality.
If I wanted to have a more informal experience, I would choose a different cruise line that catered to that demographic.

What "traditional carrier" do you cruise on? CUNARD?

It certainly can't be Holland America that you're talking about. :confused: In just 2 cruises, I delighted in seeing them embrace informality. Personally, I love that, and it's one of the reasons that I choose to sail on HAL. :)

[Opinions]

interesting...was that on a 7 day cruise? Was that in addition to the usual formal nights (ie a third night option?)

Thanks!

It was a 24 day cruise that was actually two 12 day cruises...The first 12 days had 3 Formal nights...The second 12 day had 2 Formal and 1 Formal-Optional...The Formal-Optional replaced one of the nights I had assumed would be Formal...Most seemed to wear smart-casual that night...It was a port day with many long tours.

[teltrainer]

Please note HALs response re: dress codes and the continuation of formal nights above.

Those who don't want formal nights should write and demand a change :)

[teltrainer]

with long port day, that makes sense!
After a long day we would just as soon go to the Lido or order room service dinner.

[NoNoNanette]

Please note HALs response re: dress codes and the continuation of formal nights above.

Those who don't want formal nights should write and demand a change :)

I wouldn't THINK about "demanding" anything on a Holland America cruise.... or any other line, for that matter.

Honestly, I DON'T CARE how others dress. I like the fact that HAL embraces a "do your own thing" cruise. They give people the freedom to dress UP or otherwise. We can all get along! (That's been my experience on the last 2 HAL cruises, anyway).

The only thing that I "demand" is my cigarette smoking. Rather than write to demand it, I'll just spend my vacation money elsewhere if they deny me my smoking privileges. :)

[Mary Ellen]

What "traditional carrier" do you cruise on? CUNARD?

It certainly can't be Holland America that you're talking about. :confused: In just 2 cruises, I delighted in seeing them embrace informality. Personally, I love that, and it's one of the reasons that I choose to sail on HAL. :)There are reasons a number of us select HAL for 'traditional' style.

From the CC Cruise Ship Reviews > Holland America Line (http://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/cruiseline.cfm?CruiseLineID=21) If you had to pick one word to describe the Holland America Line, that word would be "venerable." The line is arguably the most historic and tradition-laden on the seas today.

Here's an excerpt from Fodor's (http://www.fodors.com/cruise/Holland_America_Line_home.cfm)
Holland America Line has enjoyed a distinguished record of traditional cruises, world exploration, and transatlantic crossings since 1873 and Don't Choose If ...
Dressing for dinner isn't your thing. Passengers tend to ramp up the dress code most evenings.

Frommer's (http://www.frommers.com/trip_ideas/cruise/line.cfm?linecd=HOLLANDC) follows along with: Holland America has been in business since 1873, and has managed to hang on to more of its seafaring history and tradition than any line today except Cunard. and Holland America is a classy operation, offering all-around appealing cruises with a touch of old-world elegance

There are other lines that DO "embrace informality" and there is definitely a market for that style of cruises. Cruise lines are not 'one size fits all' they have their own market niche - and HAL is traditional. I have NOT seen HAL "embrace informality". What I've seen is very few passengers refuse to go along with the style of the cruise they booked.....

[nckvilledudes]

A question?? I read on here that someone stated that if you didnt do formal night that for the rest of the evening you were not to go to any other areas of the ship if you were not dressed formally. Is that correct??I can see not going to the dining room on formal night but you are restricted not to go to any other areas of the ship..Thanks and dont flame me. Just asking a question.

Dan

[NoNoNanette]

There are other lines that DO "embrace informality" and there is definitely a market for that style of cruises. Cruise lines are not 'one size fits all' they have their own market niche - and HAL is traditional. I have NOT seen HAL "embrace informality". What I've seen is very few passengers refuse to go along with the style of the cruise they booked.....

Apparently, we've had different experiences.

I enjoy Holland America BECAUSE of their mellow attitude towards "formal dress".

I've never felt uncomfortable in the "common areas" of the ship dressed casually on a "formal evening". We don't dine in the main dining room, however, we're certainly out and about in the evening. :)

[RuthC]

A question?? I read on here that someone stated that if you didnt do formal night that for the rest of the evening you were not to go to any other areas of the ship if you were not dressed formally. Is that correct??
That's the expectation, correct. The "other areas" would be the public lounges, show lounge, casino. It's the "evening" that's formal---not the "dinner".
The outside decks and entire Lido Deck would not be included in that.

[pms4104]

Hi Jim:



What "traditional carrier" do you cruise on? CUNARD?

It certainly can't be Holland America that you're talking about. :confused: In just 2 cruises, I delighted in seeing them embrace informality. Personally, I love that, and it's one of the reasons that I choose to sail on HAL. :)
The OP started this thread specifically in relation to dressing in the main dining venue on formal nights. If I recall correctly, you've stated that you always dine en suite in the evening rather than in the dining room.

Personally, I've not seen HAL embrace informality ... if that were the case, there wouldn't be any suggested dress at all.

[twinkletoes4445]

A question?? I read on here that someone stated that if you didnt do formal night that for the rest of the evening you were not to go to any other areas of the ship if you were not dressed formally. Is that correct??I can see not going to the dining room on formal night but you are restricted not to go to any other areas of the ship..Thanks and dont flame me. Just asking a question.

Dan


We're not doing the dining room on formal nights. However, hubby is bringing along a jacket/tie/slacks should we decide to go to one of the shows on those particular nights. And I'm bringing along something that I can wear to the shows. But this is just what we're doing because this is what we want to do. :)

On our last cruise I don't have a clue what people had on after dinner, nor I do care. I only worry about myself (and trust me, that's a job!). We stayed in formal clothes on our last cruise because we went straight from dinner to a show or a bar.

[Mary Ellen]

A question?? I read on here that someone stated that if you didnt do formal night that for the rest of the evening you were not to go to any other areas of the ship if you were not dressed formally. Is that correct??I can see not going to the dining room on formal night but you are restricted not to go to any other areas of the ship..Thanks and dont flame me. Just asking a question.

DanDan, here is what the HAL site on Clothing & Dress Code (http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action) says: T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours.
The 'public areas' are the lounges and showrooms. It doesn't include areas such as being out on deck. Have a GREAT cruise!

[RevNeal]

Because you've been describing him here as a Haute Couture


That he is, as most of those who have met him aboard ship will attest. He is in the fashion industry, and when he has designed he tends to somewhat "edgy" and "trend-setting," NOT the traditional, stayed, "uninteresting" formalist. As he would say (and Wiki-Websters agrees), "Haute Couture" is not characterized by formalist and formula-driven traditionalism but is willing to take a chance at setting trends and making statements. He did that by being among the first to design, make, and wear his own Neru Tuxedo (long before they were commonly available through all the major Tuxedo Lines).

If anything, Christopher's criticism of me is that I'm too formula-driven and traditional in my fashion sense. He's right, and I've challenged him to make me a Tuxedo that I would/could wear but which reflects a somewhat more modern character and style.

[RevNeal]

It was a 24 day cruise that was actually two 12 day cruises...The first 12 days had 3 Formal nights...The second 12 day had 2 Formal and 1 Formal-Optional...The Formal-Optional replaced one of the nights I had assumed would be Formal...Most seemed to wear smart-casual that night...It was a port day with many long tours.

I have seen HAL do that before ... set aside a port evening as a "Formal-Optional" night. Prior to the Dress Code redefinition that evening would have been an "Informal" evening. When I saw that done, most people still tended to dress up a bit ... more toward the old "Informal" standard, though many men wore ties too that evening.

[Salt air hair]

A question?? I read on here that someone stated that if you didnt do formal night that for the rest of the evening you were not to go to any other areas of the ship if you were not dressed formally. Is that correct??I can see not going to the dining room on formal night but you are restricted not to go to any other areas of the ship..Thanks and dont flame me. Just asking a question.

Dan


Yes, I read that also before our cruise on the Noordam.....but....DH and I NEVER dressed formally the entire 10 days. We dined in the Lido (which served pretty much the same thing that was being served in the dining room) dressed comfortably in very casual wear then went to the shows, walked the hallways, and watched the people (not all) give us some interesting looks, (heck, we were on vacation, I suit up every day and so does DH) Did we draw some stares...oh yeah!..did we care....Nope...

[Copper10-8]

A question?? I read on here that someone stated that if you didnt do formal night that for the rest of the evening you were not to go to any other areas of the ship if you were not dressed formally. Is that correct??I can see not going to the dining room on formal night but you are restricted not to go to any other areas of the ship..Thanks and dont flame me. Just asking a question.

Dan

It is a request from HAL but they leave it up to their pax to comply or not. Having said that, that same request will not be enforced in any way. You will see many pax dressed "non-formally" on formal night enjoying themselves in places like the Casino, Crow's Nest, main show lounge, etc. No one not complying, as of yet, has been keel-hauled;)

[NoNoNanette]

I can see not going to the dining room on formal night but you are restricted not to go to any other areas of the ship..

DON'T SWEAT IT, Dan! :)

You'll see once you're actually on a HAL ship that it's NO BIG DEAL. (Although some internet users make it appear to be a big issue).

Times are changing, and Holland America realizes this. Be comfortable.

[hammybee]

It is a request from HAL but they leave it up to their pax to comply or not. Having said that, that same request will not be enforced in any way. You will see many pax dressed "non-formally" on formal night enjoying themselves in places like the Casino, Crow's Nest, main show lounge, etc. No one not complying, as of yet, has been keel-hauled;)

All cruise lines, including the luxury Crystal Cruise line, are hard-pressed to address the growing fequency of passengers who change into more comfortable attire, after dinner. As far back as I can remember, there have always been a few who chose not to dress for dinner. They were and generally remain far and few between, based only on my own observations.

This after din-din thing, however, has legs and in some cases the number of passengers who change, sometimes comes close to a majority. Should cruise lines lock them in their cabins? In this way, cruising mirrors real life. I do not know of any public place where there is certainty of everyone's evening attire. It's a mixed bag at the movies, theatre, opera, wedding recpetions and so on.

[sportsmum]

I have shirts and ties for the 12 and 14 year old boys. Is that enough or should I get jackets too?

[usha]

The cruise line requests that you dress formally for only two nights of each week of cruising.
You either respect that request, or you disrespect it.
DH & I choose to respect it. :cool:

[RevNeal]

It is a request from HAL but they leave it up to their pax to comply or not. Having said that, that same request will not be enforced in any way. You will see many pax dressed "non-formally" on formal night enjoying themselves in places like the Casino, Crow's Nest, main show lounge, etc. No one not complying, as of yet, has been keel-hauled;)

No one has been keel-hauled, for sure, and for the most part no one says much of anything no matter how far the down-dressing goes. Nevertheless, it does sometimes happen that passengers are directly asked by the staff to abide by the code. For instance, aboard the Rotterdam this past February I was in the Ocean Lounge, at the bar, having a drink and waiting for Ruth, Karl, Mary Ellen, and Adele to show up. It was Smart Casual Night, about 7:15 pm. While I sat there a guy came puffing up to the bar in a sweat-soaked tank-top and jogging shorts to place an order of his own. As he slipped onto the stool and tried to hand his card to the bartender -- with sweat dripping off his arm and onto the bar -- the bartender shook his head and refused to take the card, saying "I'm sorry, sir, but shorts and t-shirts are not allowed in this bar during the evening hours. You'll have to return to your cabin and change in order to sit here." You could have knocked me over with a feather; in November of 2007 I had seen men dressed just like him -- though perhaps not quite so sweaty -- belly-up to the bar for hours on Formal Night. Suffice it to say, consistency on dress code enforcement is, by no means, HAL's strength.

[usha]

THREE CHEERS FOR THAT BARTENDER!!!!!:D

[prescottbob]

I have shirts and ties for the 12 and 14 year old boys. Is that enough or should I get jackets too?

Ahoy!

The dress code pretty much applies to everyone in the DR and public area or at least it used to as far as I know. We've cruised with boy-child and girl-child during more traditional times wearing a jacket regardless of age was the 'norm'. Besides that my son looked great! (So did my little girl).

I always took the boy-child to a used clothing store prior to a cruise and was always able to find something very nice jacket & suit-wise. No judgements here however.

The dress codes are evolving everyday it seems. I might add though that it's a great time to introduce young men into dress and mannerisms that they might not otherwise be used to exposed to.

Here's the official notice on dress code from HAL if your not familiar with it:

"Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and sports shirt or sweater for men and skirt or trousers and sweater or blouse for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen usually wear a suit and tie or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week."

Have a WONDERFUL CRUISE with the kids! The memories will last forever.

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)

[RuthC]

I have shirts and ties for the 12 and 14 year old boys. Is that enough or should I get jackets too?
You should get jackets, too. How else are children to learn that there are different forms of dress expected in different venues?

[Mary Ellen]

THREE CHEERS FOR THAT BARTENDER!!!!!:D I'll second that!!!

[Copper10-8]

...................As he slipped onto the stool and tried to hand his card to the bartender -- with sweat dripping off his arm and onto the bar -- the bartender shook his head and refused to take the card..............................

I would hope that any person dripping sweat onto the bar absent total failure of the ship's a/c system and regardless of how he/she was dressed, would be refused service. After a good work-out, I'm thinking anyone's preferred route would be to one's cabin and a shower.

[NoNoNanette]

I would hope that any person dripping sweat onto the bar absent total failure of the ship's a/c system and regardless of how he/she was dressed, would be refused service. After a good work-out, I'm thinking anyone's preferred route would be to one's cabin and a shower.

Agreed, my favorite handsome cop. :)

That's even worse than men wearing tank-tops in the Lido. *cringing*

I'd even complain to the bartender about a sweaty passenger at the bar....:eek: dripping, no less! *cringing once again*

Of course, I'd be in shorts, t-shirt and puffing on a cigarette in the smoking section ;)

[nckvilledudes]

A question?? I read on here that someone stated that if you didnt do formal night that for the rest of the evening you were not to go to any other areas of the ship if you were not dressed formally. Is that correct??I can see not going to the dining room on formal night but you are restricted not to go to any other areas of the ship..Thanks and dont flame me. Just asking a question.

Dan

Thanks to all who took the time to try and explain the HAL policy I asked about.

Dan

[nckvilledudes]

DON'T SWEAT IT, Dan! :)

You'll see once you're actually on a HAL ship that it's NO BIG DEAL. (Although some internet users make it appear to be a big issue).

Times are changing, and Holland America realizes this. Be comfortable.
[/size]

I must say I like your style.!!!!!Where in the South are you???

Dan

[RevNeal]

I would hope that any person dripping sweat onto the bar absent total failure of the ship's a/c system and regardless of how he/she was dressed, would be refused service. After a good work-out, I'm thinking anyone's preferred route would be to one's cabin and a shower.

I agree with you. The last thing I want to do after a work out is go to a bar for a drink; I want to go SHOWER, freshen up, and put on something appropriate to the evening. This fellow not only looked sweaty, I and 2 others at the bar could smell him, too. Perhaps that had a roll to play in the bartender's refusal to serve him; however, the stated reason was the man's mode of dress.

[NoNoNanette]

I must say I like your style.!!!!!Where in the South are you???

Dan

Hi there! :)

We're in the New Orleans area....extremely rural southern Mississippi.

When you have time, you might want to check out reviews and cruise pics in my signature.

Holland America is a NICE, NICE experience. Don't let the "dress code police" intimidate you, honey..... It's not an issue. :rolleyes:

[JimVrhovac]

HAL has a suggested dress code but they do not inforce it on formal nights.

The one they do inforce is no shorts or T Shirts in the dining room for evening meals.

Dress net and you should have no problem.

Couple of pictures of us...

Ruth & JIm

[cccole]

I have shirts and ties for the 12 and 14 year old boys. Is that enough or should I get jackets too?

I was on the Zuiderdam in February with 3 teens, including my 16 year old son. I asked the same question as you and received the same responses. On formal nights I saw teens in collared shirts with ties and no jackets but most had on jackets, suits, or tuxes. I was surprised at how many had actually dressed. It was fun. I know that I have loaned my son's jackets to friends going on cruises so possibly you can borrow from someone. It really is an unwanted expense when something will only be worn a couple of times. I ended up buying my son a tux so he could use it for proms.

You will have a wonderful cruise no matter what you decide and you will see a huge range of acceptable dress within each category.

Have fun!!!!! Cherie

[RevNeal]

HAL has a suggested dress code but they do not inforce it on formal nights.

The one they do inforce is no shorts or T Shirts in the dining room for evening meals.

As I have said before, HAL is inconsistent in enforcing their dress code. I have seen the Formal Night code enforced to the extent that gentlemen have been asked to return to their cabins to get a jacket and refused seating if they don't. AND, I have seen men and women seated in the main dining room even though they were dressed in shorts and t-shirts. Not on the same cruise, mind you, but I have seen both happen. And one can never know, in advance, what one will find on any given cruise. One will even find delightful people in Formal clothing + flashy slippers! :D

[JimVrhovac]

It is hard to yell at us while they are laughing....

Have a great week Neal

Ruth & Jim

[sportsmum]

I always took the boy-child to a used clothing store prior to a cruise and was always able to find something very nice jacket & suit-wise. No judgements here however.

The dress codes are evolving everyday it seems. I might add though that it's a great time to introduce young men into dress and mannerisms that they might not otherwise be used to exposed to.

:D We'll invest in jackets or bring the school jackets (formal, private school) that they would have to wear if they stayed home anyway!! Won't let the dress code down. :D

They are still amazed that they can have room service ANYTIME they want. "you mean I can eat steak sandwiches 24 hours a day......in my underwear?" "Yes, dear, but let your brother answer the door, okay?"

[sportsmum]

That quote request didn't work now, did it!

[South Aussie]

I've just returned from a great Maasdam cruise and have read the 'dress code' threads with interest. I attended 2nd sitting fixed dining and having travelled a long way before the cruise, I had no room for a tuxedo or a jacket in my very light luggage. I decided I wasn't going to pay to hire a tuxedo but I certainly wanted to attend the formal dinners. The vast majority of men wore a jacket and tie, a few wore tuxedos and I was one of very few who wore a dress shirt and tie, but no jacket.

I totally respected those who chose to wear a tuxedo and I knew that I had made every effort to be as 'formal' as I could in the circumstances. My wife and I shared a wonderful dinner with the charming couple we were lucky enough to be seated with (a tuxedo wearing gentleman, as it happened) and it was a very enjoyable evening.

I can understand why there has to be an appropriate standard for a formal evening, but I would have thought that respect for the occasion by appropriate behaviour was much more important than whether or not a jacket is worn.

All power to those who choose to wear a tuxedo and enjoy the occasion. It's something I enjoy when I'm home at such times. Those who wear a tuxedo and frown on others who don't meet their standards can do so, but I'm not sure what that achieves except to lessen their own enjoyment of the evening.

To those who wonder what to wear, I'd suggest a jacket and tie was the preferred option of about 90% of those who attended the first formal dinner on my cruise. It was also very noticeable that many passengers chose to dine elsewhere on the second formal night, rather than dress formally .

As for the cruise, it was my first HAL experience and I ticked the boxes on my survey form that said 'Excellent'.

[RuthC]

I can understand why there has to be an appropriate standard for a formal evening, but I would have thought that respect for the occasion by appropriate behaviour was much more important than whether or not a jacket is worn.
I believe it isn't an "either-or" situation. One can be dressed to code and have appropriate behavior, too.

[nckvilledudes]

I've just returned from a great Maasdam cruise and have read the 'dress code' threads with interest. I attended 2nd sitting fixed dining and having travelled a long way before the cruise, I had no room for a tuxedo or a jacket in my very light luggage. I decided I wasn't going to pay to hire a tuxedo but I certainly wanted to attend the formal dinners. The vast majority of men wore a jacket and tie, a few wore tuxedos and I was one of very few who wore a dress shirt and tie, but no jacket.

I totally respected those who chose to wear a tuxedo and I knew that I had made every effort to be as 'formal' as I could in the circumstances. My wife and I shared a wonderful dinner with the charming couple we were lucky enough to be seated with (a tuxedo wearing gentleman, as it happened) and it was a very enjoyable even
I can understand why there has to be an appropriate standard for a formal evening, but I would have thought that respect for the occasion by appropriate behaviour was much more important than whether or not a jacket is worn.

All power to those who choose to wear a tuxedo and enjoy the occasion. It's something I enjoy when I'm home at such times. Those who wear a tuxedo and frown on others who don't meet their standards can do so, but I'm not sure what that achieves except to lessen their own enjoyment of the evening.

To those who wonder what to wear, I'd suggest a jacket and tie was the preferred option of about 90% of those who attended the first formal dinner on my cruise. It was also very noticeable that many passengers chose to dine elsewhere on the second formal night, rather than dress formally .

As for the cruise, it was my first HAL experience and I ticked the boxes on my survey form that said 'Excellent'.

Very nice post.
Glad you had a excellent time on your first time on HAL.

Dan

[world~citizen]

All power to those who choose to wear a tuxedo and enjoy the occasion. It's something I enjoy when I'm home at such times. Those who wear a tuxedo and frown on others who don't meet their standards can do so, but I'm not sure what that achieves except to lessen their own enjoyment of the evening.

To those who wonder what to wear, I'd suggest a jacket and tie was the preferred option of about 90% of those who attended the first formal dinner on my cruise. It was also very noticeable that many passengers chose to dine elsewhere on the second formal night, rather than dress formally .



If you have been reading these threads, you will know that it is not about frowning on people who fail to meet the standards of others. I think it unfair to characterize it that way. There are those that would have HAL completely eliminate formal nights. For many, including myself, that would be unfortunate. Formal evenings (2 in a 7 night cruise) represent an important part of the cruise experience. That is really what these threads are about - the nature of the cruise experience. There is plenty of room for respectful debate in that.

For example, you have noted that an "appropriate standard" must be established for a formal evening. You then go on to re-define (and reduce) the HAL standard, even as you explain how you failed to honour even this new self-styled code! Then you go on to justify this - and perhaps re-define the dress code again when you say "but I would have thought that respect for the occasion by appropriate behaviour was much more important than whether or not a jacket is (even) worn."

Heck, a thread could be set up to debate what you are actually saying here. :eek: :)

If you are saying what I think you are saying - something like: "formal night means formal behaviour not formal wear", then I disagree, without accompanying frowns or disrespect.

Smooth sailing to you.

[usha]

It's pretty disappointing to lug all that finery with us, get all gussied up, and then walk into the diningroom with people in sweats in front of us and people in jeans behind us.:(
I think it's time that the cruise line decides if THEY really want formal nights.:cool: I think they should either enforce the dress codes, or stop having the darn things.

[world~citizen]

It's pretty disappointing to lug all that finery with us, get all gussied up, and then walk into the diningroom with people in sweats in front of us and people in jeans behind us.:(
I think it's time that the cruise line decides if THEY really want formal nights.:cool: I think they should either enforce the dress codes, or stop having the darn things.

I agree it is frustrating. At the same time I am certain that HAL is committed to formal evenings. Judging from what I read on the boards, a lot of HAL guests want too keep it that way.

I don't see formal nights "going away" any time soon. :)

[CowPrincess]

It's pretty disappointing to lug all that finery with us, get all gussied up, and then walk into the diningroom with people in sweats in front of us and people in jeans behind us.

Why is THAT disappointing? What am I missing? I can see being disappointed if you were looking forward to getting all dressed up and your luggage got lost, so you couldn't get "gussied". But why is the clothing choice of others the cause of disappointment?

I like formal nights, hope they are kept, and know the difference between casual and formal. But to worry about what someone else is wearing? Life is too short. And IMHO, I think whoever suggested that HAL will eventually go to "formal optional" is correct. I'm sure DH and I will amuse many if that occurs -- me in my long dress, and he is his Dockers and shirt.

[RevNeal]

Why is THAT disappointing? What am I missing? I can see being disappointed if you were looking forward to getting all dressed up and your luggage got lost, so you couldn't get "gussied". But why is the clothing choice of others the cause of disappointment?

Perhaps they're concerned about feeling conspicuous dressed up like that while others are not?? My mother would turn several shades of pink and be so embarrased by her social faux pas of being "overdressed" compared to others. She would want to hide for fear that others would look at her and judge her "snooty," "snoty," "snobbish" or some other pejorative resulting from her choice of clothing.

[RuthC]

Or, perhaps when they've gone to the effort to look nice they want to look around them and have everything they see looking nice, too. It could have to do with the setting, and setting an atmosphere. It makes a pretty mental picture.

[sportsmum]

Why is THAT disappointing? What am I missing? I can see being disappointed if you were looking forward to getting all dressed up and your luggage got lost, so you couldn't get "gussied". But why is the clothing choice of others the cause of disappointment?

I like formal nights, hope they are kept, and know the difference between casual and formal. But to worry about what someone else is wearing? Life is too short. And IMHO, I think whoever suggested that HAL will eventually go to "formal optional" is correct. I'm sure DH and I will amuse many if that occurs -- me in my long dress, and he is his Dockers and shirt.
Reminds me of what Princess Diana replied when asked why so took so much time getting ready for her visits to the poor areas. -They put on their best clothes and spent time to look their best for me and I will do it for them.
I think it is probably an issue of respect.

[cccole]

It's pretty disappointing to lug all that finery with us, get all gussied up, and then walk into the diningroom with people in sweats in front of us and people in jeans behind us.:(
I think it's time that the cruise line decides if THEY really want formal nights.:cool: I think they should either enforce the dress codes, or stop having the darn things.

Have you really had this experience on HAL? We have only had one HAL cruise and I can't say that I saw anyone in less than a collared shirt and tie on formal nights. As long as they have formal night I think that those who want to participate will, and those that do not will choose other options for dinner those nights.

I guess I just don't understand worrying about something that is not a problem. There are options for dining and there are options for dress. I, personally, have never seen anyone in sweats in the dining room on any cruise. But....I probably wouldn't have noticed because the majority of passengers are dressed very appropriately.

This is just my opinion, Cherie

[usha]

Yes, I would say that the vast majority of cruisers dress appropriately for formal night. Then there are those whose attire makes you think they're going for that "turd in the punch bowl" look.:rolleyes:

[cccole]

Yes, I would say that the vast majority of cruisers dress appropriately for formal night. Then there are those whose attire makes you think they're going for that "turd in the punch bowl" look.:rolleyes:


I have never seen the "turd in the punch bowl" look in the dining room but then again, maybe I just didn 't notice. We always enjoy ourselves way too much to worry about whether someone else is trying to make a statement. Cherie

[usha]

I'm pretty sure, no, I'm positive I didn't say anything about being worried.

[RevNeal]

Have you really had this experience on HAL? We have only had one HAL cruise and I can't say that I saw anyone in less than a collared shirt and tie on formal nights. As long as they have formal night I think that those who want to participate will, and those that do not will choose other options for dinner those nights.

Yes, I have seen this on HAL. Normally it's not many ... just a few ... but last November the numbers were so great that it was often easier to spot those in less-than-Smart-Casual than those in Formal. Shorts and tank tops, ragged jeans and print t-shirts, sweat pants and work-out T-shirt ... all in the main dining room and, before dinner, dancing in the lounges on Formal Night.

I guess I just don't understand worrying about something that is not a problem. There are options for dining and there are options for dress. I, personally, have never seen anyone in sweats in the dining room on any cruise. But....I probably wouldn't have noticed because the majority of passengers are dressed very appropriately.

Cherie, most people do dress appropriately. However, there are many notable examples of where there wasn't even an attempt made to dress according to the Smart Casual minimum. And, there are some cruises where the numbers of people who do this are more than those who dress according to Code. In short, there are times when it IS a problem.

[cccole]

I have never seen the "turd in the punch bowl" look in the dining room but then again, maybe I just didn 't notice. We always enjoy ourselves way too much to worry about whether someone else is trying to make a statement. Cherie

Actually I didn't say you worry about anything, I said that WE DON'T worry about what someone else is wearing.

The great thing about these boards is that there are many opinions on many issues. And.....the best part is that we get so much information on ships, destinations, and everything to do with onboard experiences.

I hope you enjoy your future vacations as much as we will. Cherie

[usha]

I hope you enjoy your future vacations as much as we will. Cherie
Thanks, Cherie! I know we will.:D

[cccole]

Yes, I have seen this on HAL. Normally it's not many ... just a few ... but last November the numbers were so great that it was often easier to spot those in less-than-Smart-Casual than those in Formal. Shorts and tank tops, ragged jeans and print t-shirts, sweat pants and work-out T-shirt ... all in the main dining room and, before dinner, dancing in the lounges on Formal Night.



Cherie, most people do dress appropriately. However, there are many notable examples of where there wasn't even an attempt made to dress according to the Smart Casual minimum. And, there are some cruises where the numbers of people who do this are more than those who dress according to Code. In short, there are times when it IS a problem.


Rev Neal - I accept your comments and really do not want to debate the problems that a minority of passengers present. Before we went on our February cruise I had heard all of these opinions. And, as you have said before, it changes from cruise to cruise, but on our cruise there were more tuxes than anything else for men on formal night. I was astounded!! I was so happy that my 16 year old had decided to bring a tux.

The only thing I can relate to being "overdressed" was when a friend and I were in Las Vegas, many years ago, we dressed to go to a show in the hotel, got in the elevator, looked at everyone around us, went back to our room and dressed down. I had only been in Las Vegas with my parents and going to the shows was a very dressy affair. So...I can understand if you walk into a dining room full of underdressed passengers....I have just never seen this on a cruise ship on formal night. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I have just never experienced it. And...I am sorry for those who dress for formal night and find the majority of passengers in shorts and tshirts. It would not detract from my enjoyment of the evening but for some it might.

I hope that formal nights are enjoyed by all on future cruises and if passengers decide not to dress for the dining room that they choose other options for dinner. And...I hope that those who do not dress as you would like them to do not detract from the enjoyment of your evening. Cherie

[RevNeal]

Before we went on our February cruise I had heard all of these opinions. And, as you have said before, it changes from cruise to cruise, but on our cruise there were more tuxes than anything else for men on formal night. I was astounded!! I was so happy that my 16 year old had decided to bring a tux.

That's wonderful. I, too, have enjoyed many wonderful cruises where people have really dressed to the nines. It's great when it still happens.

[innlady1]

Yes, I would say that the vast majority of cruisers dress appropriately for formal night. Then there are those whose attire makes you think they're going for that "turd in the punch bowl" look.:rolleyes:

"Turd in the punch bowl" look...that's a new one...never heard that before! Sounds interesting!

[Luke'sMom]

On previous cruises with formal nights we've taken everything from tuxedos to mother-of-the-groom dresses (you guess who gets to wear which !!). Lately, for formal evenings, DH and I take his pin-striped double-breasted black suit with several changes of tie and shirt and my two crushable, packable jersey cocktail dresses each in red and black. (This upcoming cruise on Prinsendam June 3-17 will be a red/black/khaki -for me - packing plan so that everything goes with most everything else.) His suit jacket works great with a pair of khaki slacks and tieless shirt for less formal evenings if the weather insists. I wear the two dresses twice for 4 formal nights changing out with a black shawl or cardigan sweater/bolero/shrug to disguise the repeats. It ain't rocket science folks. The one suit and two dresses/accessories/shoes take up less than 1/8 of one checked bag and work for 4+ evenings during a 14-day cruise. Do the math! It's fun to dress up, don a little bling, pose for the pix, and dance the night away. Isn't that what cruise evening are for anyway? Well, it works for us. Bon Voyage.

[prescottbob]

Actually I didn't say you worry about anything, I said that WE DON'T worry about what someone else is wearing.

The great thing about these boards is that there are many opinions on many issues. And.....the best part is that we get so much information on ships, destinations, and everything to do with onboard experiences.

I hope you enjoy your future vacations as much as we will. Cherie

Ahoy!

Whether it be a cruise, a symphony, a ballet or even a visit to a higher end restaurant we enjoy dressing up. We've never, ever been concerned about the glares of strangers for our indulgence(s). I guess we've developed a "tunnel vision" of sorts over the years, I suppose.

Likewise, we've never give a second thought to the apparel of others (whether it be a notch up or down from ours) of those around us. I guess we've enjoyed our own company to much. I also feel others should enjoy themselves even if they choose to not wear a tux or suit (although it would be nice) but at the very least wear a jacket & tie during cruise ship formal nights.

As the "code" evolves we will still enjoy dressing up. What other's may think? As Brett said to Charlotte : "...I really don't give a damn" (Gone With the Wind),

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)

[hammybee]

The only thing I can relate to being "overdressed" was when a friend and I were in Las Vegas, many years ago, we dressed to go to a show in the hotel, got in the elevator, looked at everyone around us, went back to our room and dressed down. I had only been in Las Vegas with my parents and going to the shows was a very dressy affair. Cherie

I like your analogy, Cherie. There once was a time when going to see a Las Vegas show or a play on Broadway or the Opera was viewed as an occasion to dress up. This is no longer the case.

I am always amazed at the number of people who continue to dress up on cruises given that almost every other evening land venue is far more casual than it used to be.

[RevNeal]

I like your analogy, Cherie. There once was a time when going to see a Las Vegas show or a play on Broadway or the Opera was viewed as an occasion to dress up. This is no longer the case.

She and her friend went back to their room and changed. In other words, how other people dressed impacted how comfortable they were being dressed up. Why should it be okay for them to feel uncomfortable being "overdressed" on land, but we shouldn't feel that way on ship when similar instances happen? Of course many people are going to feel uncomfortable being dressed up while most are dressed like slobs. Some people don't care and will dress however they please, wherever they please ... but many other people do care, and are mortified to stand out like that. It's those people who do care about not dressing "out of step" for whom the loss of Formal Nights is sad. Out of fear of being dressed up among slobs, they'll not do what they otherwise would love to do. Meanwhile, those who don't care will dress down and down and down and down, dragging the lowest common denominator ever lower.

I am always amazed at the number of people who continue to dress up on cruises given that almost every other evening land venue is far more casual than it used to be.

It's an opportunity to do so ... it's still "allowed" ... and, for the most part, people don't think we're weird for doing so. So, why not?

[cccole]

[QUOTE=RevNeal;14850493]She and her friend went back to their room and changed. In other words, how other people dressed impacted how comfortable they were being dressed up. Why should it be okay for them to feel uncomfortable being "overdressed" on land, but we shouldn't feel that way on ship when similar instances happen? Of course many people are going to feel uncomfortable being dressed up while most are dressed like slobs. Some people don't care and will dress however they please, wherever they please ... but many other people do care, and are mortified to stand out like that. It's those people who do care about not dressing "out of step" for whom the loss of Formal Nights is sad. Out of fear of being dressed up among slobs, they'll not do what they otherwise would love to do. Meanwhile, those who don't care will dress down and down and down and down, dragging the lowest common denominator ever lower.

Yes we went back and dressed from long dresses into more appropriate cocktail attire. The difference is that we did not look at or inquire about the dress code before we left the room. And....the others were not dressed as "slobs" they were just not dressed as formally as we were. Yes we did change our dress to not feel out of place, and we were in or 20's. Adults of another age group might have not felt as uncomfortable and would have gone on to have an incredible evening. Sometimes confidence does come with age.

I do not know what HAL will do with formal nights, we always enjoy them. But if everyone wants to dress in casual attire every night maybe the Pinnacle can be designated as the restaurant for formal evenings. I have not noticed a majority of "slobs" in the dining room but if they are indeed there maybe the rest of us can enjoy the Pinnacle for a wonderful evening.

Cherie

[codyody]

If we ever cruise together, come by our room and I'll tie your bow tie. I used to be the hit of pre-event cocktail parties once the men learned that I had the bow-tying skill. :cool:

[Copper10-8]

..................Of course many people are going to feel uncomfortable being dressed up while most are dressed like slobs................................

I've never been on any cruise, let alone on a dam ship cruise, where on formal night, the majority of folks out and about were dressed like "slobs." Especially for dinner, the majority of folks still make an effort to look presentable. Now, I agree that the percentage of tux wearers has gone done in the last ten years, but, in my experience, the majority that shows up in the dining room on formal night wears anything from a tux, to a suit, to a sports coat, tie and slacks to a dress shirt and slacks (I'm talking male folk here;) ).

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE=RevNeal;14850493]She and her friend went back to their room and changed. In other words, how other people dressed impacted how comfortable they were being dressed up. Why should it be okay for them to feel uncomfortable being "overdressed" on land, but we shouldn't feel that way on ship when similar instances happen? Of course many people are going to feel uncomfortable being dressed up while most are dressed like slobs. Some people don't care and will dress however they please, wherever they please ... but many other people do care, and are mortified to stand out like that. It's those people who do care about not dressing "out of step" for whom the loss of Formal Nights is sad. Out of fear of being dressed up among slobs, they'll not do what they otherwise would love to do. Meanwhile, those who don't care will dress down and down and down and down, dragging the lowest common denominator ever lower.

Yes we went back and dressed from long dresses into more appropriate cocktail attire. The difference is that we did not look at or inquire about the dress code before we left the room. And....the others were not dressed as "slobs" they were just not dressed as formally as we were. Yes we did change our dress to not feel out of place, and we were in or 20's. Adults of another age group might have not felt as uncomfortable and would have gone on to have an incredible evening. Sometimes confidence does come with age.

I do not know what HAL will do with formal nights, we always enjoy them. But if everyone wants to dress in casual attire every night maybe the Pinnacle can be designated as the restaurant for formal evenings. I have not noticed a majority of "slobs" in the dining room but if they are indeed there maybe the rest of us can enjoy the Pinnacle for a wonderful evening.

Thanks, Cherie. I appreciate your remarks.

[RevNeal]

If we ever cruise together, come by our room and I'll tie your bow tie. I used to be the hit of pre-event cocktail parties once the men learned that I had the bow-tying skill. :cool:

:D
Thank you!!!!!!! :D

[nckvilledudes]

Hi there! :)

We're in the New Orleans area....extremely rural southern Mississippi.

When you have time, you might want to check out reviews and cruise pics in my signature.

Holland America is a NICE, NICE experience. Don't let the "dress code police" intimidate you, honey..... It's not an issue. :rolleyes:

Hi,
I read your reviews. They were wonderful. You really enjoy yourself. Dont worry=not intimidated here. The Eurodam is really looking great. Very excited here.

Dan

[hammybee]

I've never been on any cruise, let alone on a dam ship cruise, where on formal night, the majority of folks out and about were dressed like "slobs." Especially for dinner, the majority of folks still make an effort to look presentable.


This too has been my experience across a variety of mass marketed cruise lines. I think the poorest turnout I have read about occured on the Rev's Panama Canal cruise, last year. I think he said, at the time, it was about a third of the ship, a few groups, who wore shorts and polos.

Do you think that some of what is being expressed here is fear the majority might dress like slobs as opposed to anyone experiencing it?

[RevNeal]

I've never been on any cruise, let alone on a dam ship cruise, where on formal night, the majority of folks out and about were dressed like "slobs." Especially for dinner, the majority of folks still make an effort to look presentable. Now, I agree that the percentage of tux wearers has gone done in the last ten years, but, in my experience, the majority that shows up in the dining room on formal night wears anything from a tux, to a suit, to a sports coat, tie and slacks to a dress shirt and slacks (I'm talking male folk here;) ).



As I have already said on this and other recent threads dealing with this subject, the majority of people still abide by the Dress Code.

The context of our discussions, lately, have leaned toward the question of the dissolution of the Formal Nights. That was the presupposition of my statement. Yes, people are mostly abiding by the code now. When Formal Nights are no more, or are "optional," how many people will still want to dress up?

[lorekauf]

I am always amazed at the number of people who continue to dress up on cruises given that almost every other evening land venue is far more casual than it used to be.
I'm having a hard time understanding this comment. Are you talking about formal nights? I am one that likes to dress to the nines on formal night. I'm always surprised at what some folks seem to think is formal. Most people dress in something I would wear to work. It's not what I think of as formal.

[CowPrincess]

I think that if you are concerned that HAL's doing away with formal nights will turn HAL cruises into ships filled with unkempt, badly dressed and/or dirty slobs, you are seriously underestimating your fellow HAL cruisers.

[RevNeal]

This too has been my experience across a variety of mass marketed cruise lines. I think the poorest turnout I have read about occured on the Rev's Panama Canal cruise, last year. I think he said, at the time, it was about a third of the ship, a few groups, who wore shorts and polos.

Do you think that some of what is being expressed here is fear the majority might dress like slobs as opposed to anyone experiencing it?

The worst I've ever seen was on that cruise, where shorts and polos/t-shirts/tank tops/etc. were seen in the Main Dining Room on Formal Nights. What I saw on the Rotterdam this Jan/Feb was nothing like that ... the vast majority of my fellow passengers dressed wonderfully. And, indeed, I'm sure that most passengers still dress accordingly.

You're right ... what is being expressed is an exercise in worst-case extrapolation resulting from the speculation about the dissolution of Formal Nights.

[RevNeal]

I think that if you are concerned that HAL's doing away with formal nights will turn HAL cruises into ships filled with unkempt, badly dressed and/or dirty slobs, you are seriously underestimating your fellow HAL cruisers.

I sure hope you're right.
And, for all I know, you are.

[hammybee]

I'm having a hard time understanding this comment. Are you talking about formal nights? I am one that likes to dress to the nines on formal night. I'm always surprised at what some folks seem to think is formal. Most people dress in something I would wear to work. It's not what I think of as formal.

Yeah, that certainly was not one of my better ones.:o

What I tried to say was that given it's casual night, every night, almost everywhere, in our day to day lives, I am surprised that most people, most of the time, make an effort to clean up, for dinner. I am not going to touch not being formal enough with a ten foot pole. :eek:

[hammybee]

I think that if you are concerned that HAL's doing away with formal nights will turn HAL cruises into ships filled with unkempt, badly dressed and/or dirty slobs, you are seriously underestimating your fellow HAL cruisers.

I really like the way you put this, CowPrincess. What any cruise line does is nothing more than a reflection of what the majority of their passengers want. Sometimes I find myself in lockstep with it and sometimes not, no different than day to day life.

[lorekauf]

Yeah, that certainly was not one of my better ones.:o

What I tried to say was that given it's casual night, every night, almost everywhere, in our day to day lives, I am surprised that most people, most of the time, make an effort to clean up, for dinner. I am not going to touch not being formal enough with a ten foot pole. :eek:
I think the way I was raised makes me stick to "rules" more then most people would. I like to get very dressed up for formal nights. There isn't much opportunity to do it at home. I guess it is just not that important to most folks. I am the type that feels I need to wear pants in the dining room at all times. I know it's not a problem at breakfast or lunch to wear the shorts. I just feel it's not right....and that is my issue.

I feel some folks take advantage at times. On my Panama Canal cruise in 2006 2 ladies came dressed more then one night in t-shirts and hoodies. They were older ladies not kids. I'm sorry....but that is just not right in my mind.

[Copper10-8]

.............Of course many people are going to feel uncomfortable being dressed up while most are dressed like slobs. Some people don't care and will dress however they please, wherever they please ... but many other people do care, and are mortified to stand out like that. It's those people who do care about not dressing "out of step" for whom the loss of Formal Nights is sad. Out of fear of being dressed up among slobs, they'll not do what they otherwise would love to do. Meanwhile, those who don't care will dress down and down and down and down, dragging the lowest common denominator ever lower.



It's an opportunity to do so ... it's still "allowed" ... and, for the most part, people don't think we're weird for doing so. So, why not?


As I have already said on this and other recent threads dealing with this subject, the majority of people still abide by the Dress Code.

The context of our discussions, lately, have leaned toward the question of the dissolution of the Formal Nights. That was the presupposition of my statement. Yes, people are mostly abiding by the code now. When Formal Nights are no more, or are "optional," how many people will still want to dress up?


Your speaking of a HAL future without formal nights! Got it this time! Got confused because on the other thread you said that wouldn't happen until April 1, 2118;)

[RevNeal]

Your speaking of a HAL future without formal nights! Got it this time! Got confused because on the other thread you said that wouldn't happen until April 1, 2118;)


Which I later explained was an attempt at humor, and then offered a possible future HAL dress code which was a bit more serious ... but, of course, was utterly ignored in the thread.
I don't actually think HAL is going to do away with the Formal Night Code ... they're just going to wimp out and make it "optional," with the end-result being the same.

[cccole]

How "formal" are the formal nights? Would a sports coat without tie fly?

So......Janet-Tx - did you ever think that your very simple question would result in this?

I hope, no matter what you have decided on for formal night you have a great time. Formal nights are always festive and we have always enjoyed dressing up. But then I'm a domestic engineer and can be found in sweats and jeans doing dishes, laundry, and carpool most days:)

Have a great cruise!!!!!Cherie

[RevNeal]

So......Janet-Tx - did you ever think that your very simple question would result in this?

Actually, Cherie, this has been a relatively pleasant thread as far as as Dress Code Threads go. :)

As for Janet-Tx ... I am hopeful that she will have a wonderful cruise, whatever she decides to do.

[JerseyJaguar]

On my recent Alaskan cruise I was surprised by how many folks dressed very nicely even on non-formal nights. After reading all these dress code threads I was sure that the dining room would have men in tank tops with their hairy backs and shoulders showing, but, at least in the dining room, I didn't see any of that.

Even on Dessert Extravaganza night, which was right after the second formal night, most people didn't change before getting desserts. The few who either were never formally dressed or changed into couch potato clothes did stick out.

I like dressing nicely, and for this trip, my nice clothes were the lightest part of my luggage. In fact, if I do another cruise, I'll take more skirts for the other nights of dinner, since they take up less room than the heavier pants I brought to Alaska.

[Copper10-8]

Interesting "Dress Code" answer on/from Veendam Captain Albert Schoonderbeek's blog:

2. Formal Nights onboard.
This is a touchy subject and generated last year a lot of responses when I posted something about it. We have on a 7 day cruise two formal nights and we request the guests to adhere to the dress code. Those who do not dress up are asked to go to the Lido for casual dinner and are not let into the dining room on formal nights. About 80% of the guests do dress up in one way or the other. It is lately getting a bit less but that is mainly due to the air line restrictions on luggage weight. A formal dress and tuxedo take up a lot of space and especially for guests who go on the overland tours it is an issue to consider. HAL has Tuxedos for rent on board and it is gratifying to see that more and more gents are renting them.

[cccole]

Actually, Cherie, this has been a relatively pleasant thread as far as as Dress Code Threads go. :)

As for Janet-Tx ... I am hopeful that she will have a wonderful cruise, whatever she decides to do.

You're right.....I was thinking more of how many replies there are. Aways lots of good information though. Cherie

[scopewest]

I'd prefer more casual and have already decided to ignore formal night on my next cruise and head for the Lido buffet instead. I just hope I can find a seat.

My comment is people who say they don't have a chance to dress up at home. Uh, is there some reason why you can't dress up to eat at any local restaurant? Surely there's some type of dining place a step above fast food places.

(And if money for eating out dressed up is a problem, then I'm wondering how you can afford the cruise, but that's another subject.)

[CowPrincess]

Uh, is there some reason why you can't dress up to eat at any local restaurant? Surely there's some type of dining place a step above fast food places.


There are LOTS of high-end restaurants where I live. However, the mode of dress here is very casual. I can't think of an eating place here where I'd be comfortable in a cocktail dress. When we get "dressed up" to go out, it is usually Docker-type pants, and a top of some sort -- not sequins or metallic or revealing -- more a shirt or t-shirt type. If seen by friends, invariably the comment is "oooh, you're all dressed up... where are you going?" Unless we went to maybe the Banff Springs for some gala type of event -- but we have no desire to attend galas. Or if the ballet is in town, you'll see some cocktail dresses.

[sail7seas]

I'd prefer more casual and have already decided to ignore formal night on my next cruise and head for the Lido buffet instead. I just hope I can find a seat.

My comment is people who say they don't have a chance to dress up at home. Uh, is there some reason why you can't dress up to eat at any local restaurant? Surely there's some type of dining place a step above fast food places.

(And if money for eating out dressed up is a problem, then I'm wondering how you can afford the cruise, but that's another subject.)


I can think of no restaurants in the City of Boston where a tuxedo would be ordinary dress on a given Saturday night. Are there many restaurants in your area where gentlemen wear a tuxedo to dinner?
We've enjoyed several fabulous vacations in wonderful Scottsdale and dined in some of your finest restaurants. The only tuxedo we saw was worn by waiters.

[scopewest]

I can think of no restaurants in the City of Boston where a tuxedo would be ordinary dress on a given Saturday night. Are there many restaurants in your area where gentlemen wear a tuxedo to dinner?
We've enjoyed several fabulous vacations in wonderful Scottsdale and dined in some of your finest restaurants. The only tuxedo we saw was worn by waiters.



My point is what's stopping anyone from wearing formal outfits at any restaurant, no matter what the other patrons are wearing.

[Dave M]

I can think of no restaurants in the City of Boston where a tuxedo would be ordinary dress on a given Saturday night.Not ordinary dress, I agree. However, I have worn a tux to L'Espalier and to a Lexington casual Italian restaurant - with no reason other than "just because". I like to dress up occasionally, whether on HAL or out for an evening in Boston.

[hammybee]

I can think of no restaurants in the City of Boston where a tuxedo would be ordinary dress on a given Saturday night. Are there many restaurants in your area where gentlemen wear a tuxedo to dinner?
We've enjoyed several fabulous vacations in wonderful Scottsdale and dined in some of your finest restaurants. The only tuxedo we saw was worn by waiters.



Sail, if you see a tux, it must be prom night. :D

[babyher]

Sail, if you see a tux, it must be prom night. :D


*LOL* :)

Last Friday night was our local high schools prom.

You had to see all the formals and tuxes at the diner afterwards *LOL*

[ctsally]

I think that if you are concerned that HAL's doing away with formal nights will turn HAL cruises into ships filled with unkempt, badly dressed and/or dirty slobs, you are seriously underestimating your fellow HAL cruisers.

Thank you CowPrincess! Just because some of us don't want to put on a fashion show for others to judge us by does not mean that we choose to dress in cut-off jeans and flip-flops in the dining room. Some decorum is called for and I'm confident would be followed by HAL cruisers if formal nights become optional.

[scopewest]

Thank you CowPrincess! Just because some of us don't want to put on a fashion show for others to judge us by does not mean that we choose to dress in cut-off jeans and flip-flops in the dining room. Some decorum is called for and I'm confident would be followed by HAL cruisers if formal nights become optional.

I totally agree. And how come I haven't seen the cut-off jeans and flip-flops in the dining rooms? Oh, that's right, I don't bother to look! I'm just checking to make sure your dessert isn't bigger than mine :)

[kakalina]

We've enjoyed several fabulous vacations in wonderful Scottsdale and dined in some of your finest restaurants. The only tuxedo we saw was worn by waiters.



Sails: As a long time Scottsdale resident I must agree with you. There are very few places here where one would wear a tux or gown. Perhaps a political or charitable fund raiser type gala. But other than that . . . Scottsdale and surrounding parts are pretty well known for a laid back style of dress.

[RevNeal]

Thank you CowPrincess! Just because some of us don't want to put on a fashion show for others to judge us by does not mean that we choose to dress in cut-off jeans and flip-flops in the dining room. Some decorum is called for and I'm confident would be followed by HAL cruisers if formal nights become optional.

Setting aside the presumed-reason why some of us like dressing up, I agree with you ... most HAL passengers who don't want to dress up will be/are like you and believe that at least "some" decorum is warranted. Of course, opinions as to what constitutes "some decorum" will always vary, and so disagreements will continue on that subject as the common denominator of what "decorum us" continues to spiral downward. Past experience has taught us that there will always be those who will push the extremes as far as they can ... if only to see if it can be done. That's how we've gotten to the point we're at today, and I don't think that process is going to stop until the last domino falls.

[RevNeal]

I totally agree. And how come I haven't seen the cut-off jeans and flip-flops in the dining rooms? Oh, that's right, I don't bother to look! I'm just checking to make sure your dessert isn't bigger than mine :)

LOL
Be careful ... if you keep that up you'll need a larger size pair of cut-offs and sturdier flip flops. :D ;)

[ctsally]

[quote=scopewest;14892797]I totally agree. And how come I haven't seen the cut-off jeans and flip-flops in the dining rooms? Oh, that's right, I don't bother to look! I'm just checking to make sure your dessert isn't bigger than mine :)[/quote

Hey, wait just a minute! You may take my car, my house, and my dog, but don't mess with my food! LOL

[scopewest]

LOL
Be careful ... if you keep that up you'll need a larger size pair of cut-offs and sturdier flip flops. :D ;)

Okay but I don't own any cut-offs!

[scopewest]

Hey, wait just a minute! You may take my car, my house, and my dog, but don't mess with my food! LOL[/QUOTE]

I'm just making sure our desserts are the same size. Then again, I can always order another one. Ah, the joys of cruising.

[ctsally]

Hey, wait just a minute! You may take my car, my house, and my dog, but don't mess with my food! LOL

I'm just making sure our desserts are the same size. Then again, I can always order another one. Ah, the joys of cruising.[/quote]

Right!! And two good things about this...1. We don't have to wash the dishes...and 2. Nobody back at home will know if I make a pig of myself!!!

Yep, life on HAL can't be beaten! :-)