A honest question

[Lithium]

Given the hell that people endure with hurricanes, the terror, the uncertainty, the monetary issues, everything that does along with a devastating hurricane.....why do you people live in Florida? I mean no offense, I honestly want to know what keeps people there. Do the benefits of living in Florida outweigh what happens during a hurricane season?

[sail7seas]

Millions of people relocated there during the last several decades when there have been few hurricanes hit. The region experienced a lull in fierce weather systems and it seems folks "forgot". Some well may pack and move after this season.

But, many regions of the country suffers from naturally occuring risks. California gets their earthquakes and horrible fires. Arizona fires. The Northeast gets blizzards AND hurricanes. The Great dust bowl gets summer scrorchers......The Tornados.

[Lithium]

I understand that virtually every place has some sort of natural disaster it is prone too. I live near a fault line for example and I also live in a droubt striken state. But it seems that hurricanes happen far more often than other disasters and have a far greater impact, except for maybe major earthquakes (which also rarely happen). We also get big fires here, but they rarely impact houses, and when they do, its no where near the scale it is with a hurricane.

[sail7seas]

Just seems (is) particularly bad this year. This is not a common pattern.

[Krazy Kruizers]

A lot of people move to Florida from the north as they want to get away from the winter snow storms, etc. After working all their lives and having to struggle to work on snowy roads and then come home to clean drive ways and sidewalks, they want away from that. So Florida appeals to them - warm sunny winters (hot and humid in the summer).

We thought about retiring to Florida and each year we look at places in Bradenton and each year we say no because we know about the hurricanes.

[Lithium]

There are many warm areas in the United States that have no snow. What makes florida unique so that so many people go there in spite of hurricanes.

[gliles]

There are many warm areas in the United States that have no snow. What makes florida unique so that so many people go there in spite of hurricanes.
I have wondered the same thing, especially lately. I don't really like Florida anyway, prefer the left coast myself. I have lived mostly in the east coast as a child, NY, PA, NJ but moved to Texas in '82 and gotta say I love those bumper stickers that say "I wasn't born in Texas but got here as fast as I could" I love Texas. I would like to be closer to the ocean but other than that, Texas is great. Sure we have tornados but I can dodge them!

[iluvcruzin]

Florida has traditionally been a haven for the retired. The cost of living is lower than in the northern states (with that salaries are too). Many move to Florida not only for the weather, but to find affoardable retirement communities. However, many are now looking outside of Florida - i.e. South Carolina is a up & coming locale.

As far as hurricanes, I don't think the percentage of them are as high as the number of Tornadoes. Also Hurricanes don't just strike Florida (N.C. and others have seen their share) There are better building codes now since Andrew in which many residents have much more secure homes. Unfortantely, there is a huge amount that do not. Many are living in trailer/mobile home communities that don't have as much protection. Hopefully they will be able to research and find better ways to protect these homes in the future as the lessons learned from the recent hurricanes. One could only hope.

[taszmom]

Well I'm going to give my reasons for moving AND staying in Florida for 18+ years. I was a Jersey girl, born in NYC and moved to Florida in her early 20's (as so did my husband from PA) looking for a job.

Hurricanes have threatened us for 18+ years and this was our second real experience with a hurricane (Andrew the first). There have been many times that we got ready, but were spared. It is just a freak of nature that we have been bombarded this month (the height of hurricane season) due to a high pressure keeping these storms lower rather than diverting them north as in the past.

Regardless I have no intention of leaving. I love the weather...I love having summer all the time. I have easily acclamated to the heat. We have a wonderful life here and could not even consider dealing with winter again. We have palm trees and green grass all the time. We have long sunny days - the best time of year is spring & fall when we have hardly any rain at all. We do enjoy our one week of "cold" weather when we actually get to wear a sweater and have even seen a few snow flakes drop and melt as soon as they hit the ground. There is so much access to culture, travel, job opportunites and the great weather...we love it. I have seen how South Florida has grown over the years. It is truly is a melting pot.

[HeatherInFlorida]

All my life I hated Florida. My mother told me it should be cut away from the rest of the country. That's how I was brought up. I swore you couldn't get me to live here in a million years. Then we visited friends here in West Palm one particularly nasty winter in the Northeast. On a January day I sat out on their patio watching the palms swaying gently in the warm breeze and uttered the words .... " I could do this". And the rest is history.

Florida isn't particularly pretty. It's flat. People are everywhere. But it is the most unbelievably wonderful lifestyle I have ever known. I have met more people here than any other town we have ever lived. People are friendly and welcoming. And as Sail said, except for Andrew there have been few hurricanes here in the last 25 years. The last one to hit Palm Beach was in 1935 (I could be off a year or 2 on that one, but it's around then).

If we were to write off living in any state that has severe weather problems, we would also have to eliminate at least the following: North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, Louisiana, and most of the middle of the country (where tornadoes roar through on a constant basis). In fact, NC, and SC get both the tornadoes AND the hurricanes as well as the snowstorms.

Just as an aside, except for the cost of the houses (which are going up as we speak;) ), there is nothing cheaper about Florida. I found that out after we moved here. Homeowner's insurance is through the roof and that's with a huge deductible. Auto insurance is tons more than NJ where we came from. Food, clothing, furniture is all the same. And supplemental medical insurance (when you reach 65) is way more than up North. So it doesn't cost less to live here.

But we have the palms and the ocean and the wonderful breezes from the sea almost every single day. And people keep coming so there just must be something about it:) .

[FoxyTerrier]

My family moved to Ft. Walton Beach, Florida in the panhandle in 1959. My father was an Air Force pilot at the time and was transferred there. I grew up in the area and it was a great place to grow up. The beaches are as pretty as HMC and about a 15 minute drive from our house. Inland water a 5 minute walk from my house. I spent the summers sailing, swimming and water skiing. This was before the days of jet skis, waver runners, etc which kids love now. People extremely friendly too.

My father is an avid golfer too and loves playing year round. Still plays 3-4 times a week at 81 years old.

In the 45 years my parents have lived in Florida only 1 hurricane has ever hit there. That was hurricane Opal in 1995. Not bad odds, but they are now facing Ivan this coming week. They are all prepared and will be leaving Monday or Tuesday for a safe place to wait out the storm.

Of course I worry about them and everyone else in Florida, but I also worry everyday I commute in to Washington, DC - not for weather, but for other craziness in our world today.

Why do I stay, because this is where my home is now, for better or for worse...

Joni

[FoxyTerrier]

I love Texas. I would like to be closer to the ocean but other than that, Texas is great. Sure we have tornados but I can dodge them!

The east side of Texas is on the Gulf of Mexico - the best of both worlds???

[peaches from georgia]

We lived at Wrightsville Beach, NC (Wilmington) at Cape Fear for almost 20 years and had many more actual and near-hit hurricanes during that time than if we had been living in FL. The hurricane track historically has been much more to the north up the east coast, making landfall in SC or NC. My parents had a few on the west coast of FL in the Sarasota area, but nothing like we did in NC.

I also heard if Ivan were to hit Key West it would be the first one they have had since 1919, 85 years. Now, that little statistic amazed me. :eek:

[Vicar]

Several of my aunts and uncles and some of my parents friends , moved down to Florida after they retired from CT and NY. Yes to escape the harsh winters, but from a finacial standpoint it was a win win situation.

As a previous poster stated, the cost of living is very low. As some may know the cost of living in the NY, NJ, and Ct areas is very high.

In the case of my family memebers and friends they moved at a time when house prices here were through the roof, They sold their houses for say 300,000 to 400,000, then they bought beautiful condos in Fla for like $50,000
Now these people are not high paid executives, these were working class folks living week to week with a small savings account.

Now after selling their home and buying their condo some of them had more money in the bank than they ever dreamed. Plus they were retireing with pensions based on northeast wages and they were taking them down south, where they went much further.

So you have an older couple, the kids are gone, the tuition, braces, groceries, school clothes etc, are all over. And they are starting a new phase of their life with in some cases $300,000 in the bank.


Granted this is not everyone who lives in Florida. I am only speaking of a few cases that I know , but I am sure there are many people who are in that situation.

[cruzincurt]

No State Income tax.

No local income or wage tax.

No snow.

No State inheritance tax (until you reach the federal taxable level).

Maximum of 5 hours driving time to the most distant cruise terminal (Miami), 15 minutes to the nearest (Tampa).

No snow.

You can see the hurricanes coming days in advance.

No snow.

Lot's of work for me, especially after a hurricane. (I design buildings).

Sunny days almost every day.

No snow (did I say that before?).

Lot's of new construction, not the worn out cities of the rust belt.

No rusted out automobiles.

Seems everyone wants to come here for a vacation. We live here.

Just to name a few reasons.

[CDRMark]

I am sure the fact that FL is one of the few states without an income tax figures into the equation. It is never just one thing.

[sail7seas]

And, unlike Taxachusetts, there is no State Income Tax.

Also.....for those who live on the East Coast, Florida is the best option for folks who maintain a dual residence. Many, Many Bostonians keep a home in the Boston area as well as Florida. They want to be within 3 hours flying time to go back and forth. They want to be easily accessible to their children and grandchildren. The "kids" will fly down for school vacations but would not necessarily fly to California, Arizona, Texas or some other distant state.

[mhshapiro]

We would not choose Florida as a permanent retirement residence mainly because my wife has a problem with her arthritis when she is in humid climates for too long. But I think it's unfair to single out Florida for the hurricane danger. Most of the gulf coast and much of the east coast is hurricane prone. A good part of the country is subject to tornados, and out here on the west coast we have earthquakes.

The key is to take the dangers into account when you rent, buy or build; and, do your best to mitigate what you can and to insure against what you can't mitigate.

[Krazy Kruizers]

cruizincurt

Did I get that correct - NO SNOW - Florida?? :D :D

[peaches from georgia]

The key is to take the dangers into account when you rent, buy or build; and, do your best to mitigate what you can and to insure against what you can't mitigate.
I do have a real problem with the taxpayers picking up the tab when people build and rebuild in the same risky areas. If private insurance does not fully cover damage to private property then I don't think the rest of us should be responsible for the funds to let these people rebuild over and over in the same place just because that is where they want to live.

Taxpayers have already given over $2 billion for just the first hurricane alone and you hear these people say they will use this federal $$$ to build again or buy another trailer on the same lot or on the same beachfront. Why should we subsidize this? :confused:

[sail7seas]

Much for the same reason tax payers subsidize health costs for people who show up in an emergency room with illnesses they acquired because they smoked two packs a day for 25 years. Because they are in need. Because they need the help. Because they are in emergency situations.

Or should we leave them on the hospital stairs dying until they swear they will quit smoking?

[imsulin]

I lived in Florida as a kid in the late 50's for three years, after moving from Colorado. There was no A/C in homes back then, and the heat and humidity nearly did me in...and the bugs. We lived on Indian Island, right across the street from the beach....and that beach was my saving grace! I was just not used to the heat and high humidity...and sand flies, mosquitos, and cockroaches. I remember when the "bug spray truck" used to come down our street in the summer (gag..gag..cough..cough). Florida - nice place to visit, but probably wouldn't want to live there....especially east of I-95. Hurricane insurance and all that. A friend of mine has a saying: "All the retired people live in Miami. Their parents live in St. Petersburg:)". (HE lives in St. Pete!)

[iluvcruzin]

I forgot to say that Florida is beautiful which is another reason people are attracted to live there. Heather and Taszmom - West Palm Beach is one of the most beautiful places in Florida. I've been there before and it's very residental which makes it so nice. Marco Island is another favorite of mine. My dream is to own a condo there someday. (If not, a monthly rental get-away when I retire).

Cruzincurt - I'm ready to pack my bags after that list. :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

I forgot to say that Florida is beautiful which is another reason people are attracted to live there. Heather and Taszmom - West Palm Beach is one of the most beautiful places in Florida. I've been there before and it's very residental which makes it so nice. Marco Island is another favorite of mine. My dream is to own a condo there someday. (If not, a monthly rental get-away when I retire).

Cruzincurt - I'm ready to pack my bags after that list. :):D Yes, I loved that list, too!!!

iluvcruzin, yes it's lovely here ... flat, but lovely. As a girl growing up among the rolling hills of N.E., I miss the northeast, but you can't beat the climate.

After all the work putting everything back where it belonged and cleaning up all the debris and rubble, I have to tell you that a condo rental is looking pretty good to me right now, too! When we're just too old for this (right around the corner;) ), that's our next move.

Or better yet, get a condo on ResidenSea or whatever it's called, and just cruise all over avoiding hurricanes, blizzards and everything else you can imagine:p

[cruzincurt]

KrazyKruizers...As fate would have it, I was born and lived in McKeesport most of my life. My wife is from Port Vue. My parents still live there. I also lived in Elizabeth Twp, and spent 5 years living on Jacks Run Road in White Oak!

I was just back for a visit two weeks ago, strictly family duty. I've been in Florida now for 16 years and don't regret it a second. After one miserable winter in 1988, I think the one snow storm left 3 feet of frozen white stuff, and after sliding up and down Route 48 going to work every day, we decided to sell the house and move to Florida. Needless to say, we ain't ever coming back.

Yes, you read it correctly, no snow.

Oh, and Peaches from Georgia, I don't think the government (FEMA) GIVES anything free to people to rebuild, what it GIVES is low interest loans. Then again, I don't really appreciate some of MY tax dollars building highways around Atlanta. What ever happened to neighbors helping neighbors?

Then there is that whole issue of spending $87 billion to rebuild Iraq.

[Vicar]

Heather

My Dads dream was to move out to Florida when he retired, My parents had been down theer several times visiting friends and he loved the retirement village life, golf all day, bumming around the club house playing cards with his buddies , hanging around the pool, and then taking vacations to break up the monotony *LOL* My mom was reluctant at first but she warmed to the idea little by little , especially as her family and friends started moving down there one by one.
Sadly he passed away before they could do this.

It took her 10 years of living alone in an 11 room house to finally decide to move down to Boca and get a condo.

Of course in the first years , my sisters and I were getting married and having kids so she wanted to be around for all that.

5 years ago she realized she had more family and friends in Fla than here in Ct so she moved down there.

SHE LOVES IT

No snow and ice, she will not go out or drive in that stuff so Fla is great for her.

No being dependent on us kids or hiring some one for yard work and repairs and what not, just pay the common charge and they do it.

her condo is very active so there is always something to do and someone to hang around with.

[peaches from georgia]

Oh, and Peaches from Georgia, I don't think the government (FEMA) GIVES anything free to people to rebuild, what it GIVES is low interest loans. Then again, I don't really appreciate some of MY tax dollars building highways around Atlanta. What ever happened to neighbors helping neighbors?

Then there is that whole issue of spending $87 billion to rebuild Iraq.
The issue is, and it is one of great controversy and discussion on the coast where as I said we lived for 20 years so we have great familiarity with the subject, is that people are allowed to use these low interest federally guaranteed loans (meaning taxpayer guaranteed) to BUILD AND REBUILD ON THE SAME RISKY PROPERTY, which is what I was saying above. Same thing as the government dredging and rebuilding beach that is worn away by erosion, knowing that it will happen again and taxpayers will foot the bill again to maintain the value of private property which never should have been purchased to begin with. No where did I say people shouldn't get help, but it is a public policy worthy of discussion as to whether we should be using public funds without guidelines of where it may be used.

I am the last person who would say don't help people who need it. I qualified my words with 'build and rebuild again and again'. Anyone watching tv interviews hears these folks, and not only in FL but other victims of natural disasters in other states, say they are going to rebuild or put another trailer on the same property for the 3rd and 4th time. No, I think there comes a time that this is not good use of taxpayer money and the loans should have stipulations. That's all I was saying and where letting people die in the streets at the hospital door came from is a hoot.

As for $87 billion, you can be sure that is just the tip of the iceberg.

[bombero]

I came to Sarasota Florida 38 years ago to visit my brother for a few weeks after getting out of the military.. He got me a part-time job tending bar several afternoons a week for some extra money. I met a few firefighters who came in for a few beers in the afternoon, and they talked me into trying out for the Fire Dept., Well, 30 years later, I retired a Captain.. This City, County, and State have been very good to me and for me.. I got married here, raised my family here and they all live here. This is our home.. It's completely different, to you who visit Florida on vacation and to us who live here.. Yes, occasionally we get hit hard by nature but, what do you have where you live that is so good? Bitter cold, snow, icy rain, brush fires, earthquakes, floods, droughts... We all have problems, disasters and setbacks in life.. But, we go on.. This has been my home for 38 years and It will continue to be for the rest of my life, unless I can convince Cruisingal to make the move to Costa Rica... That is the only place I would ever consider relocating too.. Bombero

[imsulin]

Ooooh, Costa Rica!! I love it, Bombero!! Have you been there?

Peaches - I hear ya! $87 billion really is just the tip! (Our "tax dollars at work...")

From a transplanted Northerner/Westener...I actually DO miss the snow! Give me snow over 100 degrees and 99% humidity!

[peaches from georgia]

It was my brother's plan to retire in CR. He had lived several years in Venezuela and is fluent in Spanish, of course, but after a 3 week stay in CR he regretfully changed his mind on the permanent home there. He absolutely loved the people and country and it is the most educated of all the Central American nations, but it was a little more underdeveloped than he wished and the American community is quite dispersed throughout the country.

But a great place to visit and we hope to spend more cruise time there on both coasts.

[Lithium]

We lived at Wrightsville Beach, NC (Wilmington) at Cape Fear for almost 20 years and had many more actual and near-hit hurricanes during that time than if we had been living in FL. The hurricane track historically has been much more to the north up the east coast, making landfall in SC or NC. My parents had a few on the west coast of FL in the Sarasota area, but nothing like we did in NC.

I also heard if Ivan were to hit Key West it would be the first one they have had since 1919, 85 years. Now, that little statistic amazed me. :eek:
Your comment made me curious so I researched what the odds are of a hurricane hitting somewhere...here is what I found: (note this is a percentage based on the last 100 years with a hurricane passing within 75 miles of listed location)

Miami has the highest probability with 26.3% chance of a hurricane hitting there.

Second highest was Cape Hatteras, North Carolina at 21.3%. From there it drops to 17% for Tampa, Fort Meyers, and Key West (actually 19%). Then down to 14% for Port Canaveral and Galveston. All other places where under 10%. This includes all of the caribbean, gulf of mexico, and east coast (US only). Even going outside the US, Miami still dwarfs everyone else except the Bahamas, which was 22.3%.

One more interesting fact, when looking only at major hurricanes, the percentage for Miami is 11.1%. This is double the percentage of second place Fort Meyers with 5.6%.

I think you could also read this that a hurricane will hit Miami once every four years with a major hurricane every 10 years. Very interesting indeed.

[peaches from georgia]

Your comment made me curious so I researched what the odds are of a hurricane hitting somewhere...here is what I found: (note this is a percentage based on the last 100 years with a hurricane passing within 75 miles of listed location)

Miami has the highest probability with 26.3% chance of a hurricane hitting there.

Second highest was Cape Hatteras, North Carolina at 21.3%.
Thank you, Lithium, for going to the trouble of finding these very interesting statistics. It may be that the incidence of hurricanes making landfall in the NC area became more prevalent in the latter portion of the last 100 years, which is why I remember so many affecting us. Or it could be that human nature is well, human nature, and we all have a longer memory of traumatic events that became personal. :rolleyes:

Either way, it is interesting that after Miami, NC is running a pretty close second. We love visiting the Outer Banks, but any storm that affects such an exposed and isolated area can be lethal. Thanks again.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Your comment made me curious so I researched what the odds are of a hurricane hitting somewhere...here is what I found: (note this is a percentage based on the last 100 years with a hurricane passing within 75 miles of listed location)

Miami has the highest probability with 26.3% chance of a hurricane hitting there.

Second highest was Cape Hatteras, North Carolina at 21.3%. From there it drops to 17% for Tampa, Fort Meyers, and Key West (actually 19%). Then down to 14% for Port Canaveral and Galveston. All other places where under 10%. This includes all of the caribbean, gulf of mexico, and east coast (US only). Even going outside the US, Miami still dwarfs everyone else except the Bahamas, which was 22.3%.

One more interesting fact, when looking only at major hurricanes, the percentage for Miami is 11.1%. This is double the percentage of second place Fort Meyers with 5.6%.

I think you could also read this that a hurricane will hit Miami once every four years with a major hurricane every 10 years. Very interesting indeed.
Since you find statistics interesting, Lithium, instead of studying the "probability" index, why don't you investigate the "actual hits" over the past 100 years. In fact, of even greater interest might be the actual number of hits on any given locality over the past 25 or so years. Most people considering a move to Florida would probably be taking a closer look at that then the "probability" angle.

Just guessing, but I'd venture to say you'll see NC and SC coming up quite a number of times.

[Lithium]

I believe those probabilities are based on the number of hurricanes hitting in the last 100 years. I found this on the nhc archives site though:

The US has had 165 hurricanes hit the mainland in the years 1900-2000. Of these, 65 were major hurricanes (category 3 or stronger on SS).

Florida still dwarfs the rest of the states with 60 of these hurricanes hitting Florida. 24 of those 60 were major hurricanes. More particularly, 28 of those 60 hit southeast florida while 11 of those 28 were major hurricanes.

Texas takes second with 37 hurricanes hitting and 16 of those major ones.

Since you asked about NC and SC, NC comes in 3rd with 27 hurricanes, 11 major, and SC is down the scale a ways with 14 hurricanes, 4 major. Incidently, Louisiana is 4th, with 26 and 12 major.

Of note, only 2 Category 5 hurricanes have hit the US, one in Florida and one in Louisiana/Mississippi area.

There have been 15 Category 4 hurricanes to hit US, 12 of these were in Florida.

All data taken from the following website:

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/Landsea/deadly/Table9.htm

[mhshapiro]

I do have a real problem with the taxpayers picking up the tab when people build and rebuild in the same risky areas. If private insurance does not fully cover damage to private property then I don't think the rest of us should be responsible for the funds to let these people rebuild over and over in the same place just because that is where they want to live.

Taxpayers have already given over $2 billion for just the first hurricane alone and you hear these people say they will use this federal $$$ to build again or buy another trailer on the same lot or on the same beachfront. Why should we subsidize this? :confused:

I disagree with your point to some extent in that virtually every part of the country is subject to natural disasters of some sort (earthquake, wildfire, flooding, tornados, hurricanes, etc.) We have to be willing to help each other out when these disasters occur. At the same time, we can work to reduce the costs through building codes, and zoning laws, etc. that discourage high density development in the most dangerous areas.

[peaches from georgia]

I disagree with your point to some extent in that virtually every part of the country is subject to natural disasters of some sort (earthquake, wildfire, flooding, tornados, hurricanes, etc.) We have to be willing to help each other out when these disasters occur. At the same time, we can work to reduce the costs through building codes, and zoning laws, etc. that discourage high density development in the most dangerous areas.
Of course I totally agree with you and never said anything else. I clearly was referring to the scenario where federal funds are used to 'rebuild OVER AND OVER in the SAME risky location' which is all I ever said. As you say, proper zoning and building codes should discourage high density development and protect taxpayers from subsidizing those who desire to live in areas where development is historically unwise and are unwilling or unable to assume financial responsibility for their decision. But not aid victims in disaster areas- I never even intimated such a thing.

What is really funny is that not taking the 'liberal' position politically is something I have never been accused of and anyone who knows me would find the misinterpretation of my words as hilarious and a 180 from my beliefs. :D

[digby]

Given the hell that people endure with hurricanes, the terror, the uncertainty, the monetary issues, everything that does along with a devastating hurricane.....why do you people live in Florida? I mean no offense, I honestly want to know what keeps people there. Do the benefits of living in Florida outweigh what happens during a hurricane season?

What terror issues does FL have that many other parts of the country don't have?

What monetary issues? Don't they use US Dollars anymore?

Hurricanes hit many other states. This year has been unusually harsh for FL.

Most people live there because they love the weather

[jhannah]

This reminds me so much of the years I lived in western Arkansas. There was often flooding along the Mississippi River delta in the eastern part of the state. TV crews would go out to talk to residents who were affected and 9 times out of 10 they'd say someting like, "Yeah, this is the 6th time we've lost our house in 10 years. Now we gotta' start rebuilding all over again." I wonder why on earth they continue to build right in the flood plain over and over and over again. Simply amazes me. I understand the possible affection with land that has been in the family for generations ... but gimme a break. It seems like enough is enough. Oh well ...

[Lithium]

What terror issues does FL have that many other parts of the country don't have?

What monetary issues? Don't they use US Dollars anymore?

Hurricanes hit many other states. This year has been unusually harsh for FL.

Most people live there because they love the weather

Well, many have commented on how terrified they are when hurricanes come around.

The monetary issues that go along with having your entire home destroyed and also the amount you pay for insurance on all those things.

Hurricanes do hit many other states, but not anywhere near the frequency they hit Florida. Especially major hurricanes.

The weather comment I find hard to swallow, there are many places in the US that have similar weather to Florida.

[digby]

Much for the same reason tax payers subsidize health costs for people who show up in an emergency room with illnesses they acquired because they smoked two packs a day for 25 years. Because they are in need. Because they need the help. Because they are in emergency situations.

Or should we leave them on the hospital stairs dying until they swear they will quit smoking?

Subsidizing health care is a far cry from subsidizing a pleasant lifestyle! (I say that while having a second home right on a CA beach with an eroding coastline.)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Peaches, I have to say I agree with you to some extent. But the problem is where do we draw the line? 20/20 had an expose on this awhile back and they were talking about building on the ocean on Long Island.

So are we saying that we will not subsidize victims that build on any coastline in the U.S.? Or do we just eliminate Florida, because we Floridians are just stupid to live here anyway? So we're smarter if we build on the NC coast? Or the Long Island coast? Or live on a faultline in CA? Or in the midwest where hundreds of tornadoes can occur in any given year?

I just don't see how we draw the line and decide at what point help is denied.

We either have to eliminate all aid whatsoever or continue it as it is. The state governments decide when it is a disaster beyond the ability of the people of that state to provide and they beg for help. I don't believe in handouts, but I think there are times that there is a very real need.

And when I see where some of my tax $$$ go, like some of the nutcase research projects about how ducks mate in the Ababwe Islands, I'm happy to see my tax $$$ go to a more worthy cause.

And back to Lithium's question, which he continues to ponder, people are spread out throughout the U.S. The suggestion that we should just evacuate the entire state of Florida because sometimes there's a hurricane, makes no sense to me. There is no paradise that I know of on the face of this earth ... at least in this life.

[sail7seas]

Subsidizing health care is a far cry from subsidizing a pleasant lifestyle! (I say that while having a second home right on a CA beach with an eroding coastline.)



I am not referring to health care in general. I was very specific as to the fact the health issue was directly related to the person smoking two packs of cigarettes a day for 25 years. If he did not done such a high risk thing, he would not have presented with the condition he had and taxpayers would not have to subsidize the cost of his care.


.........If a person does not keep building and rebuilding his home in a location that has flooded out his home 3 times in the past, tax payers would not be subsidizing him building it in a risky location once again which is what Peaches was complaining of.

[ekerr19]

Last year, we got dumped on by a huge blizzard. It was one of the worst blizzards this state has ever seen. Many people in the Denver Metro area were effected by the storm.

Our basement flooded when the sun came out and the weather turned unseasonably warm - the water run-off was unbelievable. Many people had extensive damage to their homes, yards, cars, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think you will find weather related disasters in every part of the country. I don't think it's fair to say "don't cry about a hurricane when you choose to live in Florida", because basically that would apply just about everywhere, IMO.

We certainly never expected to have snow fall like we did last year - but it happened. Hopefully, it won't happen again... :)

[Lithium]

And back to Lithium's question, which he continues to ponder, people are spread out throughout the U.S. The suggestion that we should just evacuate the entire state of Florida because sometimes there's a hurricane, makes no sense to me. There is no paradise that I know of on the face of this earth ... at least in this life.wooooo....now......exactly where did I say everyone should leave Florida? I simply asked what the appeal was in spite of the hurricanes.

I think its been proven by statistics that hurricanes hit south Florida far more than anywhere else. Once every four years is a pretty common occurence IMHO.

I agree though that if you are going to live on the coast in a hurricane prone area such as south Florida, you should have sufficient insurance to cover your damages and NOT rely on tax money to help you. Some responsibility needs to come forth from those that choose to live in such a place. I don't believe you can argue the point of earthquakes and tornadoes. Its comparing apples and oranges. I don't think you could find a place in the US that expects to have a major natural disaster (tornado, earthquake, fire) once every four years with a devastating disaster once every ten years.

[jhannah]

I was just trying to visualize the lower 48 to think of an area that is not prone to natural disasters. What about New Mexico? I can't remember hearing of anything dire there. The state is not in tornado alley. They're not subject to hurricanes nor are they on a major fault line. It's rich in Native American history. Plus, they have some of the most spectacular scenery anywhere, including plains, desert, and mountains. H-m-m-m. Maybe we should just all move there! ;)

[ekerr19]

I was just trying to visualize the lower 48 to think of an area that is not prone to natural disasters. What about New Mexico? I can't remember hearing of anything dire there. The state is not in tornado alley. They're not subject to hurricanes nor are they on a major fault line. It's rich in Native American history. Plus, they have some of the most spectacular scenery anywhere, including plains, desert, and mountains. H-m-m-m. Maybe we should just all move there! ;)

Jim-

Don't they have the problems with Alien's from outer space? Like Area 51 or something????

[HeatherInFlorida]

wooooo....now......exactly where did I say everyone should leave Florida? I simply asked what the appeal was in spite of the hurricanes.

I think its been proven by statistics that hurricanes hit south Florida far more than anywhere else. Once every four years is a pretty common occurence IMHO.

I agree though that if you are going to live on the coast in a hurricane prone area such as south Florida, you should have sufficient insurance to cover your damages and NOT rely on tax money to help you. Some responsibility needs to come forth from those that choose to live in such a place. I don't believe you can argue the point of earthquakes and tornadoes. Its comparing apples and oranges. I don't think you could find a place in the US that expects to have a major natural disaster (tornado, earthquake, fire) once every four years with a devastating disaster once every ten years.Couldn't agree with you more. But understand, Lithium, that it is not simply the coastal areas that are being hurt by these storms. Orlando (nowhere near the coast and not in South Florida) has been crisscrossed by both Charley and Frances. I don't live on the coast and you should see some of the damage.

Palm Beach County hasn't had a hit in 25 years and the last really bad hit was in '35. So it's not every 4 years that a locality is hit. The last big storm is South Florida (before this year) was Andrew and that was 12 years ago.

But I agree, no one should be allowed to live on the coast who cannot afford insurance to cover his home. Ideally, everyone should have insurance to cover their home. However, the $$$ that are coming to help Florida are not for the million dollar coastal homes, I assure you. These are not well off people ... the regular folk.

[jhannah]

Jim-Don't they have the problems with Alien's from outer space? Like Area 51 or something????Area 51 is here in Nevada, less than 100 miles from Las Vegas. You're thinking about the extra-terrestrials who were captured and housed in Roswell a long time ago. But that's not threatening to anyone, nor does it cause damage. No one has come to claim them in all these years, so it's likely their kin have forgotten about them. :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

I was just trying to visualize the lower 48 to think of an area that is not prone to natural disasters. What about New Mexico? I can't remember hearing of anything dire there. The state is not in tornado alley. They're not subject to hurricanes nor are they on a major fault line. It's rich in Native American history. Plus, they have some of the most spectacular scenery anywhere, including plains, desert, and mountains. H-m-m-m. Maybe we should just all move there! ;)
Well, there you go!!! But where's the ocean? Where's the port? That's one of the big reason's I'm here!!!

You're right, too, EKerr, those aliens can take you away for years I hear!!!!:D

[Lefty Bob]

Only thing missing is water.

[flatwallet]

I was offered a good deal on a bridge in Arizona....hhhmmmm..oh yes. London Bridge I believe it was.

[estj]

Given the hell that people endure with hurricanes, the terror, the uncertainty, the monetary issues, everything that does along with a devastating hurricane.....why do you people live in Florida? I mean no offense, I honestly want to know what keeps people there. Do the benefits of living in Florida outweigh what happens during a hurricane season?
because:
(a) my company transferred me here
(b) fell in love with it the first week
(c) crystal clear and warm waters (live on the Gulf coast)
(d) outstanding cultural events
(e) ability to easily spend a weekend at Disney or Universal (we have become Disney "trash" ...as one couple lovingly referred to themselves!)
(f) quick and easy access to cruise lines (YEA!!!)
(g) ability to swim year round in our pool (although true Floridians don't swim Jan-March...but I don't mind the 70 degree temps!)
(h) the sunsets over the Gulf. You haven't lived until you see them. and it's so nice to be able to drive out to the beach after work, order a nice drink, and just sit there and watch people enjoying themselves and then viewing the spectacular sunset.
(i) the people. because most are "transplants", neighbors tend to look out for each other more
(j) seashells
(k) lush plants all year. it's a hoot to have poinsettias OUTSIDE at Christmas time!
(l) sailboats, especially at sunset
(m) FRESH seafood always!
(n) watching the porpoise frolic and play
(o) the manatee
(p) having egrets walk right up to you
(q) driving to work all year with the top down...and then coming home with the top down! (unless of course it is raining!)
(r) being able to put up Christmas decorations without freezing to death
(s) watching geckos on the pool screen catch bugs
(t) being able to drive down to the Keys easily
(u) the cost of living
(v) our house...split plan allows for guests to virtually have their own section of the house when visiting
(w) guests...when you live in Florida...you get LOTS of company!
(x) when guests leave!
(y) being able to have the windows open at night in January
(z) the beauty of GREEN...at all times.
So what don't I like?
(a) hurricanes
(b) fire ants
(c) snakes
A much shorter list!

[dakrewser]

because: Interesting list, let me adapt it to the reasons why we love to live in California's Bay Area....


(a) my company transferred me here
(A) My wife's job brought us here
(b) fell in love with it the first week
(B) ditto
(c) crystal clear and warm waters (live on the Gulf coast)
(C) Emerald green cool waters
(d) outstanding cultural events
(D) More culture (and more cultures) than any other place west of the Appalachians
(e) ability to easily spend a weekend at Disney or Universal (E) ability to easily spend a weekend in the US' best wine country
(f) quick and easy access to cruise lines (YEA!!!)
(F) ditto (San Francisco & San Diego)
(g) ability to swim year round in our pool (although true Floridians don't swim Jan-March...but I don't mind the 70 degree temps!)
(G) ditto. True Californians feel the same way
(h) the sunsets over the Gulf. You haven't lived until you see them. and it's so nice to be able to drive out to the beach after work, order a nice drink, and just sit there and watch people enjoying themselves and then viewing the spectacular sunset.
(H) Sunset over the Pacific. Our waves are bigger!
(i) the people. because most are "transplants", neighbors tend to look out for each other more
(I) Ditto. But our neighbors come from more countries than yours!
(j) seashells
(J) ditto
(k) lush plants all year. it's a hoot to have poinsettias OUTSIDE at Christmas time!
(K) and lemon trees and lime trees and orange trees...
(l) sailboats, especially at sunset
(L) or any other time
(m) FRESH seafood always!
(M) ditto, ditto, ditto. Dungeness Crabs, Wild Salmon!
(n) watching the porpoise frolic and play
(N) watching the dolphins frolic & play
(o) the manatee
(O) the sea lions
(p) having egrets walk right up to you
(P) having Condors swoop overhead
(q) driving to work all year with the top down...and then coming home with the top down! (unless of course it is raining!)
(Q) only raining 4 months a year!
(r) being able to put up Christmas decorations without freezing to death
(R) Freezing? What's that?
(s) watching geckos on the pool screen catch bugs
(S) ditto
(t) being able to drive down to the Keys easily
(T) being able to drive to the sierras easily
(u) the cost of living
(U) you got me there!
(v) our house...split plan allows for guests to virtually have their own section of the house when visiting
(V) houses are small, so there's no room for guests!
(w) guests...when you live in Florida...you get LOTS of company!
(W) we've had more guests in 3 years in CA then in 10 years in TX!
(x) when guests leave!
(X) ditto
(y) being able to have the windows open at night in January
(Y) needing to have the window open in January!
(z) the beauty of GREEN...at all times.
(Z) The golds, the greens, the clear blue sky...

So what don't I like?
(a) hurricanes
(A) Earthquakes
(b) fire ants
(B) any ants
(c) snakes
(C) Traffic
A much shorter list!

Don't you feel sorry for the rest of the country? (not to mention, of course, our non-US friends) :)

[Seadoc]

Here come two cents worth from a SW Floridian:

17.5 reasons for living in FL: nostateincometaxesgreatweatherwatereverywheresunsa ndhotwetbluenicepeopleoutdoorlifestyleoceanandgulf neighborlinessgreatfishinggoodairportsforculturale scapes.

Personal version of new math: 20+20 is less than 4...............

20 years in Chi town (a TRULY great city with winters from hell).
20 years in burbs NYC (a great city if it weren't for the attitudes and goofy pace)
4 years in Florida

[Lithium]

Don't you feel sorry for the rest of the country? (not to mention, of course, our non-US friends) :)

I know you are joking here, but honestly, where people live is based very much on their likes and dislikes. Everyone has touted the weather like its the greatest thing and that anywhere that doesn't have warm weather is bad. My wife would die if she couldn't have her snow days. I have lived in both a warm climate year round and one that changes every season. I prefer the change of seasons, the fall colors, snow on Christmas, mountains (I mean real mountains) etc. To each his own I suppose.

[dakrewser]

My wife would die if she couldn't have her snow days. I have lived in both a warm climate year round and one that changes every season. I prefer the change of seasons, the fall colors, snow on Christmas, mountains (I mean real mountains) etc. To each his own I suppose.
Oh, we love the snow also - we try to visit it at least once a year. It's much nicer when you're staying in a hotel, someone else shovels the walk and there's no need to put on a coat to 'go out' to dinner.:rolleyes:

-dave

[Santa Fe Jim]

I was just trying to visualize the lower 48 to think of an area that is not prone to natural disasters. What about New Mexico? I can't remember hearing of anything dire there. The state is not in tornado alley. They're not subject to hurricanes nor are they on a major fault line. It's rich in Native American history. Plus, they have some of the most spectacular scenery anywhere, including plains, desert, and mountains. H-m-m-m. Maybe we should just all move there! ;)

The eastern 1/4 of NM is known as the "high plains" -- the area where the tornados that ravage OK & TX form. Not many do damage in NM, though. A few years ago, several hundred homes in Los Alamos were burned in a huge forest fire, but they were built in a heavily wooded mountain area. Outside of that -- nope, no real "sudden" natural disasters, but we are in a severe drought situation.

I lived in Tampa for 4 months -- hated the weather. Lived in Puerto Rico for 3 years -- hated the weather. Lived in San Antonio for 5 months -- hated the weather. Grew up in Minnesota, which has the worst combination -- hot summers and incredibly frigid winters. :eek: For me, Santa Fe has the ideal climate. Moderate summers due to the 7,000 foot elevation. A little snow in the winter, but it generally falls up on the ski areas. Best of all -- extremely low humidity. Particularly in the spring and fall, when it's in the teens or below in the day. :p

A disadvantage that keeps the population down is that it's a high cost of living, low salary area. :( Outside of that, it's ideal. :D

SFJ

[Slinkiecat]

All through my working years I dreamed of retiring and moving to Florida. I spent most of my life in Ohio and Illinois, and I HATE winter, cold, ice, snow, bare trees - The whole thing! Florida is green, blooming and warm all year. My kids would go down to Florida with friends when they were in college, but I never had time. Then when we were on a cruise in the Mediterranean, I told DH that I wanted our next home to have palm trees in the front yard. A year later, we spent Christmas vacation in Naples, went shopping for a home, and bought a condo, where we moved after he retired.

Our condo is concrete block with tile roof and we installed hurricane shutters. So far the storms have only brought some rain and wind, but aside from being without electricity for 24 hours with Charley, there was no effect. In fact, our relatives from Eastern Florida who were evacuated during Frances spent the weekend in our condo.

Florida is Paradise to me. Now that fall is creeping in on us in Ohio, I'm making ready to fly south again. It's CRUISING season there!!!

Slinkie

[ekerr19]

Colorado is paradise to me! Having grown up in Southern California, we had great weather year around - but you know what? I found I truly enjoy the seasonal changes.

My DH was born and raised in Colorado - couldn't wait to get back to Colorado after finishing his military service... we love it here!

The only problem the past few years are all the Californian transplants who've driven up the housing prices. ;)

I like Florida, but I don't like humidity :( also, the state seems so flat to me...

[cindiedee]

Why would we NOT live in Florida?!!!! We live in paradise every single day! We live on the Treasure Coast which was hard hit by Frances but guess what? That was the first hurricane to directly hit the Treasure Coast since around 1964! 40 years - pretty good odds! (Shoot - I am 52, so I will be dead if it is another 40 years before we get a direct hit again!) When I remarried 14 years ago, I told my then-to-be-husband "I cannot marry you if you can't move to Florida when you retire - it is a dealbreaker" (I grew up in FL but had lived away for my job for 30 years) - and I absolutely meant it (fortunately he has come to love FL as much as I do and he can't imagine living anywhere else)- we lived in the Atlanta area for years but are lucky he was a school teacher so he got to retire after 30 years at age 52. We thank God each and every day that we can live here - it is absolutely paradise - not all of Florida is beautiful but the southern, tropical part just can't be beat. Y'all love the Caribbean Islands, don't you? We live like that every single day! And, as many of you have noted - everywhere you can live in the USA has some kind of weather related problems - and at least with hurricanes we have a week of warnings to prepare for it! It isn't cheap to live here but compared to up north, it is dirt cheap! But it is ok that you don't like Florida - we have enough people here already! LOL! Just kidding - y'all come on down!

[cruzincurt]

peaches from Georgia,

Why the heck would anyone want to live in Atlanta? Seems that ALL the hurricanes end up going through Atlanta. Hope you do OK with what's left of Ivan. Look's like the next one is heading your way also.