Smoking issue

[mountainmare]

I just thought I'd ask some advice. Neither of us smoke and I'm slightly sensitive to 2nd hand smoke (watery eyes, cough but not life threatening).

On our last cruise we were next to some multi-packaday people who smoked from predawn to well into the night on their balcony which flowed right over to us. Not wanting to cause unpleasantness we would then quietly go inside.

This doesn't seem fair. Soooo if this happens next time do we ask to be moved? Do we ask our nieghbors to at least do some of their smoking inside?
Do we just suck it up and deal (again)?

I tend to be a very tolerant soul who believes in personal freedom of choice, but this does directly impact my space and enjoyment of the moment. All of your wisdom would be appreciated.

[sail7seas]

We do not smoke. WE used to. Sometimes, some second hand smoke does now moderately bother me. Not extreme but from time to time, I have moved away to avoid it.

I fail to understand how smoke from an adjoining veranda can be bothersome on a moving ship at sea. I truly don't know how it is the smoke from a cigarette does not dissipate before it can reach you on your veranda.

When docked in port, perhaps. But, particularly in the Caribbean, there are island breezes. Fresh air. I am sorry you are bothered by it and I am sure you are sincere, but I truly don't "get it".

As to what you should do about it IF you find yourself again bothered by neighbor's smoke......you must use your best judgment IMO. Do what you think most appropriate.

[garydm]

Not difficult to understand at all why smoke would travel to the next aft verandah given the movement of the air when at sea. We just returned from an Alaskan cruise where the man forward of us, sat out for hours smoking a cigar, rendering our verandah useless during these times. The odor certainly did not dissipate with the ocean breeze. We just sucked it up, closed the door, and went inside. And, this was on a ship with a beautiful cigar lounge.

Gary

[Spot]

My thoughts exactly S7S.
I am currently a smoker (DH is not) and I try to be as considerate as possible to those around me when I'm indoors (lounge, bar, etc) but when I'm outdoors I never considered the fresh air swirling around me to be laced with enough dense smoke to bother the person in the verandah next to me.
I find it curious but not impossible that this would bother my next door neighbor - I will pay attention to this during my upcoming cruise on the Z.

[RuthC]

Smokers can't seem to win. (I stopped long ago, but have sympathy for both sides.)

My suggestion, if there is disturbing smoke from the next balcony, would be to approach my neighbor in a "neighborly" fashion and ask for his/her help in working out an agreeable arrangement. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There may be a schedule possible so that you can both use your balconies in turn. Your neighbor can't know you have a problem with the smoke if you don't tell him.

[WindyCity]

My husband and I are both smokers and, honestly, neither one of us would have a problem, if approached in a nice manner, working out a solution to our smoke bothering someone. Being approached aggressively or lectured, would make us adamant about NOT cooperating, but if people can deal in an adult manner, respecting one another, there would be no problem in complying with someone's request.

[Cookwise]

Ruth, I think you have the right idea. Otherwise there is no easy solution. Yes, smoke from other balconies filters right on over to ours, too, when we are on a cruise. I am very allergic. It ruins most late night evenings on our balcony since we are forced to go in. Maybe we'll get lucky on our next one coming up in Nov. and be able to enjoy the sea air!

[isabellmybell]

http://smileys.******************/cat/3/3_5_9.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)Smoke is smoke, inside or out! Make yourself a couple of no smoking or no smoking near my veranda signs and hang them out. Or at least asked to be moved in the beginning, what can they tell you, No? So you'd be no worse off than you were. Or wait till you see your neighbor out by the rail on deck and give him a nice rail check. Hehe;)

[bookworm0911]

http://smileys.******************/cat/3/3_5_9.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)Smoke is smoke, inside or out! Make yourself a couple of no smoking or no smoking near my veranda signs and hang them out. Hehe;) That's a good attitude to take on your first cruise. Sure to make you a lot of friends on board. I'm sure there are a lot of cruisers on Princess who are hoping they don't get the cabin next to yours. :p

[elmorejj]

Just curious, where would you hang these signs? If they are hung on the balcony, you would need mighty powerful binoculars to see them from anywhere, or maybe they are for the passing sea birds.....jean :cool:

[GayleArc]

DH and I smoke very little but always feel we are doing the better thing for future passangers by only smoking on the balcony. We maybe only have two a day out there but thought we were bieing good by not smelling up the room.

[taszmom]

Yes I am a reformed smoker and now I hate being anywhere near it. I get nautious from it. I usually just move to another location if I have to and it's possible. My DH smokes cigars and I give him heck all the time. He wants me to sit out on the balcony with him and I try to sit upwind, but that never works, it always seems to float my way no matter what. If it bothers me that much, I just go inside.

[peaches from georgia]

I'd love to sit next to him, taszmom! I was forced to give up smoking in April after 50 years. Didn't want to and I refuse to admit I feel better. I'll never think of myself as a non-smoker, though. I'm mentally a smoker who is not smoking today. I'd love to be in a lounge right now inhaling whatever stray smoke I can find! :D

[Krazy Kruizers]

Neither of us has ever smoked.

And there have been times when smoke from the verandah next to ous did drift onto our verandah. If the smoke was real bad, we would just go inside.

[vijoge]

I'd love to sit next to him, taszmom! I was forced to give up smoking in April after 50 years. Didn't want to and I refuse to admit I feel better. I'll never think of myself as a non-smoker, though. I'm mentally a smoker who is not smoking today. I'd love to be in a lounge right now inhaling whatever stray smoke I can find! :D

I couldn't agree more. Anyone willing to blow their smoke my way???? Gosh, I miss it!

[RuthC]

I'd love to sit next to him, taszmom! I was forced to give up smoking in April after 50 years. Didn't want to and I refuse to admit I feel better. I'll never think of myself as a non-smoker, though. I'm mentally a smoker who is not smoking today. I'd love to be in a lounge right now inhaling whatever stray smoke I can find! :DI understand totally, peaches! Totally.

For years after I smoked my last cigarette I used the word "stopped", not "quit".
I would stand down-wind of smokers trying my best to get a "hit". Would sit in the smoking section of a restaurant for the second-hand smoke.
Some sub-ordinates would have to go outside to smoke, but they couldn't go if it wasn't break time. So I would go with them, stand down-wind, and discuss their work so it wasn't a break! I thought of it as a win-win situation.

[bhunter]

Peaches apparently we are in the minority. I quit smoking 21 years ago whe I was pregnant with my 1st daughter and still consider myself a smoker. I love going to the bars and sitting next to a smoking table.

I do sympathize with both sides and would like to believe that if a smoker were politely asked to refrain certain times of the day said smoker would not be offended, I do believe though being a normal human being said smoker may become definsive and smoke even more just to prove his or her personal space rights take priority.

[vijoge]

I just had a thought. I wonder if I can request a balcony cabin in between two smokers!

[peaches from georgia]

I just had a thought. I wonder if I can request a balcony cabin in between two smokers!
You got it!!! Then no matter how the wind blows we're happy.

I knew the only way I could quit was to believe it was just a day at a time, like an alcoholic, and not forever. In fact my pulmonologist said it would take 20 years to clear my lungs completely, but I have his permission on my --th birthday to start smoking again. Knowing that keeps me going! ;)

[bobpatj]

I think on our one cruise on Celebrity, that port side was smoking, starboard non-smoking. This was for cabins, too. We're non smokers in a port side cabin and had no problem with smoke our balcony, but two women across the hall, in an inside cabin, aired out the smoke in their cabin every morning by leaving their door open to the hall. Ugh!

[kryos]

Smokers can't seem to win. (I stopped long ago, but have sympathy for both sides.)

My suggestion, if there is disturbing smoke from the next balcony, would be to approach my neighbor in a "neighborly" fashion and ask for his/her help in working out an agreeable arrangement. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There may be a schedule possible so that you can both use your balconies in turn. Your neighbor can't know you have a problem with the smoke if you don't tell him.
Or ... if there are lots of empty balcony cabins, simply ask to be moved early on in the cruise.

I don't know whether Holland America asks for information about smoking preferences during booking, but I know my travel agent always tells them that I am a smoker and will require an ashtray in the cabin (I don't stay in a balcony suite). Maybe you should make your preference known that you would prefer not to have smokers in the cabins directly adjacent to yours.

Might help ...

Blue skies ...

--rita

[MISSYLOU]

About the only time I smoke in a public area on the ship is in a lounge before or after dinner. The rest of the time I limit my smoking to the balcony. While I don't want to be rude to anyone if you have a cabin next to me please try to get another as I have already put limits on where I will smoke and the balcony is my preference.

[RuthC]

Or ... if there are lots of empty balcony cabins, simply ask to be moved early on in the cruise.

I don't know whether Holland America asks for information about smoking preferences during booking...
--ritaA fine first step, but... Problem with that idea, rita, is usually there aren't lots of empty balcony cabins. HAL ships tend to sail full, and balcony cabins are among the first to go. If the person trying to avoid smoke on the balcony has picked a specific cabin on top of it, moving may not be practical.

I do not remember ever being asked my smoking preference since smoking was banned in the dining room.

[peaches from georgia]

Now there's a good idea. Let smokers light up again in the dining rooms and there will be less smoking on the balconies! :D

[sail7seas]

Same for me, Ruth. Since they banned smoking in all dining areas, we have never been asked if we smoked or not when making our reservations for cruises.


When I stopped smoking, I stopped for an hour at a time. It was impossible for me to count how many days since my last cigarette. I had to reduce it to hours. From the time I decided I had my last cigarette, I have not had a single puff of another. I believe I am one puff away from a pack a day. So......I shall NOT take that puff EVER. I LOVE not smoking. I LOVE being free of the habit, not being a slave to where/when I can have a cigarette, putting up with nose wrinkling, hand waving dramatists.....It is so liberating to not be a smoker in today's world.

Out of the gazillion comments/threads/posts re: smoking that have been on this board and all the other cruise BB's, was one post that stuck in my mind as effective and inevitably true for Most smokers.

The poster (I do not remember who it was) wrote: "You will stop smoking at some point; you will have to for some reason or finally decide you want to; so why not to it now and get it over with." For some reason, that has helped me stay off cigarettes. So......if the author of that post reads this, thank you. You have helped me not smoke.

[JDee]

I think on our one cruise on Celebrity, that port side was smoking, starboard non-smoking. This was for cabins, too. We're non smokers in a port side cabin and had no problem with smoke our balcony, but two women across the hall, in an inside cabin, aired out the smoke in their cabin every morning by leaving their door open to the hall. Ugh!

Having cruised many times on Celebrity, smoking is permitted in all cabins at all times. The non-smoking on the port side only applies only to the outside decks and the smoking side in lounges is usually on the port side.

However, some Celebrity cruises are under the misconception that the port side non-smoking also applies to cabins. That sometimes does create a problem for those who smoke on their verandah on the port side until such time as the non-smoker is made aware of the ship's smoking policy.

Happy cruising.....

[Cruiseoften]

Verandah smoke - I've read of passengers asking for a fan in the cabin - why not one on the verandah - running at full blast, pointed towards the 'offenders' :o

[sail7seas]

How can a ship moving at 20+ knots with sea breezes on top of the motion of the ship, not 'blow the smoke away' into the wind? I cannot imagine how smoke from one veranda does not dissipate when the ship is moving long before it can reach the adjoining vernada. If you say it can blow that far when the ship is moving.....okay, I'll believe you. But I must say, I've never had smoke blow onto any veranda we were on when the ship was moving at 20+ knots.

[seatrial]

sail7seas,

Go read a book on fluid dynamics and you will learn why it is that smoke in certain circumstances really does not dissipate that much over the short distance from one balcony to the next while a ship is in motion. Also the human olfactory system is really quite sensitive so even fairly small concentrations of smoke are detected and can be disturbing.

The fact is this. It is not unreasonable to pay for a balcony cabin expecting to enjoy the fresh sea air while on a cruise. After all, fresh air is what is present while out at sea; that is, until someone decides to add tobacco smoke to that air. When the ability to enjoy fresh air is impacted by someone elses optional habit, this is simply not right. It has never been right, but somehow we just accept this intrusion and move on. I do believe that one day this will end.

If I decide to package some sort of foul smelling substance in a can and I start spraying this foul smelling substance outside; lets just say, for the sake of argument, that I get a real rush out of spraying this stuff all around. I really enjoy it (much like smokers enjoy cigarettes). I suspect that I would be asked to please stop. Why is this any different than smoking in outdoor public spaces? Don't I have the right to spray smelly stuff if I want to? Trust me, for those of us who don't smoke, we can smell it from quite a distance. Just today I could smell the cigarette smoke from the car in front of me at a stop light.

I for one am sick of cigarette smoke and I am really tired of being subjected to it. I also hate car fumes, but at least that pollution is the result of something that benefits our society.

[sail7seas]

I do not smoke.

Do not blame me for whatever smoke you are smelling. :)

[WindyCity]

How do car fumes, or diesel truck fumes, or black exhaust or factory smoke differ from cigarette smoke? I guess everyone should stop driving and manufacturing products and smoking.

The smell of jet fuel makes me sick - does that mean everyone has to stop flying?:eek:

[dakrewser]

The fact is this. It is not unreasonable to pay for a balcony cabin expecting to enjoy the fresh sea air while on a cruise.
No where in my cruise docs does it say anything about the air or it's quality.

Just today I could smell the cigarette smoke from the car in front of me at a stop light.
If you are that sensitive to cigarette smoke (and most people aren't that sensitive) then you need to actively seek out non-smoking ships. Perhaps if more people sought non-smoking ships, more non-smoking cruises would be offered.

-dave

[Vic The Parrot]

Hey seatrial


I hope one of these days, I'll be on the same ship as you.
Me in one balcony cabin, another smoker 2 doors down, and you in between.

We'll keep puffing away til you get 'smoked out'. And if that doesn't work, a can of Raid might do the trick. It works well on pests.

[LizB1]

I have to agree with S7S on this one!

[trubey]

If you are that sensitive to cigarette smoke (and most people aren't that sensitive) then you need to actively seek out non-smoking ships. Perhaps if more people sought non-smoking ships, more non-smoking cruises would be offered.
-dave
This is wise, dave. Perhaps a HAL employee could make note of it?

Personally, I would gladly and graciously give up the little smoking I do if in return the nonsmokers would stop wearing perfume in public places. I find it disgusting and invasive.

Lobster ala Giorgio. Crab cakes w/ Chanel Number 5. Bombay Martini with a whisper of Brut for Men.

N.B. this is the very first time in my 55 years I committed these feelings to print and have NEVER complained to the 'offender'.

http://smileys.******************/cat/15/15_10_5.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)

Lane

[mountainmare]

Thank you all for responding.
I knew that I was taking a risk with this thread. Smokers do not realize that you do not have to be walking through a blue haze to be bothered. Think about hay fever and ragweed. Do you have to be in a blizzard of pollen before you start to sneeze?

I see both sides- but notice how many nonsmokers say that they just go inside instead of speaking up. If we are faced with the situation again for a 10 day or longer cruise we will talk to our neighbors - but I will be surprised if we don't get the S&S reaction, that with all this fresh air it's hard to believe that a little smoke can make it to my veranda.

I love the idea of smoking and nonsmoking sides of the ship or even a nonsmoking section of the ship, but we have found that in some resorts smokers will book a nonsmoking room because it smells cleaner and then smoke on a balcony because its outside. I just wish that they would invent a smokeless cigarette ( and a car that is silent and leaves no exhaust, and clean public transportation and affordable organic food and peace on earth). In the meantime thanks to all.

[sopa]

I agree with you about perfume and cologne, Trubey. For me and for many, many people I know, encountering strong perfume means an instant headache. I smell, and yes, even taste that stuff for hours.

[peaches from georgia]

NCL had smoking/non-smoking cabins when we sailed it years ago. I'm sure there was no way to 'police' it and besides it must have been a nightmare to book. :eek:

[elmorejj]

I am another one who is bothered by some perfumes. I don`t have to be able to smell them near me, I just start sneezing and I know someone is nearby wearing the offending scent.

I would like to know if, and when they ban smoking permanently, who is willing to pay all of the billions of dollars in taxes that cigarette smoking produces.......I can see it now, a base rate of 50% tax on income......jean :cool:

[trubey]

I agree with you about perfume and cologne, Trubey. For me and for many, many people I know, encountering strong perfume means an instant headache. I smell, and yes, even taste that stuff for hours.
I think perfume bothers some people more than others. Here's a story.

I was in the hospital once, and my roommate's wife came in to see him, after seemingly taking a BATH in Giorgio.

I put up with it for about ten minutes, then got up and dragged myself and my drip bottle out into the hall. I was choking.

A nurse was rushing down the hall. She ran up to me and asked if I was all right. She was coming because my telemetry said I was having a crisis: my pulse was over 120, and the drugs I take normally keep it about 40 or 45!

LKT http://smileys.******************/cat/11/11_1_120.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[sopa]

Wow, Trubey. That's scary.

I have a co-worker who would be interested in hearing your story if it's okay to pass it on to her. She reacts with violent sneezing, pouring eyes and severe headaches. I thought that this was the worst reaction possible, but now I know it's not.

Perfumes and colognes can be pleasant if their use is subtle, not a slam to the senses.

And yes, jean, I agree re: the taxes. If smoking is completely banned, someone will have to pay!

[trubey]

[QUOTE=sopa]I have a co-worker who would be interested in hearing your story if it's okay to pass it on to her. She reacts with violent sneezing, pouring eyes and severe headaches. I thought that this was the worst reaction possible, but now I know it's not.[QUOTE]

Certainly it's okay. I don't sneeze or anything like that, but I do get nauseous and sort of . . . scared? Apprehensive? Hard to describe. I live with it, most times.

It's probably just an allergic reaction to something they use in its manufacture, both for me and your co-worker.

Lane http://smileys.******************/cat/15_1_58.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[Nasmas]

Maybe they can put the tax on that god awful perfume that never goes away.

[dakrewser]

Personally, I would gladly and graciously give up the little smoking I do if in return the nonsmokers would stop wearing perfume in public places. I find it disgusting and invasive.
I'm with you, Lane. While I still enjoy a fine cigar from time to time (maybe 3 or 4 a year!), I'd gladly forego the pleasure to be in a fragrance-free environment.

-dave

[dakrewser]

I hope one of these days, I'll be on the same ship as you. Me in one balcony cabin, another smoker 2 doors down, and you in between. We'll keep puffing away til you get 'smoked out'. And if that doesn't work, a can of Raid might do the trick. It works well on pests.
You probably pulled the wings off flies when you were a lad, also. Yeah, there's no better enjoyment than causing pain and anguish to your fellow passengers on a cruise, is there?

-dave

[Vic The Parrot]

dave


Pulling wings off flies??? Nothing could be further from the truth! I was merely stating my input on this issue.

I would like you to know, I think of myself as a considerate smoker. I obey all the rules on board, and I stay put in the smoking areas. What I object to is the violent actions and words
of those who don't smoke, the 'anti-smokers'

If someone has sensitivity to smoke, I'll be more than obliged to put out my cigarette, or move to another location. No need to get nasty if the smoke drifts a certain way.

[doone]

I am a smoker and try to be considerate at that. What I object to is a non-smoker moving into a smoking area and either removing the ashtrays or waving their hand to get rid of the smoke. I smoke only in designated smoking areas, but if a non-smoker decides to sit in a smoking area and sits there and complains about the smoke, I politely tell them they are in a smoking area and point out the non-smoking area to them. I have run into people who have been very nice about it, they didn't realize they were in a smoking area and thanked me, others look at me like I was in the wrong, UGH!!!!!!

[ekerr19]

I am a smoker and try to be considerate at that. What I object to is a non-smoker moving into a smoking area and either removing the ashtrays or waving their hand to get rid of the smoke. I smoke only in designated smoking areas, but if a non-smoker decides to sit in a smoking area and sits there and complains about the smoke, I politely tell them they are in a smoking area and point out the non-smoking area to them. I have run into people who have been very nice about it, they didn't realize they were in a smoking area and thanked me, others look at me like I was in the wrong, UGH!!!!!!

doone-

We have seen this happen a number of times. My DH smokes periodically (he is always trying to quit) - never smokes in confined places, always goes to the smoking areas/section -

One time (on the outside Lido deck) a woman had the nerve to say something to him about getting second-hand smoke on her children. He politely pointed out he was in the smoking section - the lady said, "no matter - you shouldn't smoke around kids" ... he just got up and walked away.

I just remind myself that it truly takes all kinds, doesn't it? :)

[doone]

Ekerr, it sure does take all kinds.!!!

[elmorejj]

Doone, I agree with what you said about non smokers in smoking sections. I saw one time a lady come into the smoking section outside on the lido deck, remove three ash trays that were near her table, then complain when a smoker sat down and asked for an ashtray!! Nervy, in my opinion.....jean :cool:

[doone]

Very nervy, Jean!!!

[imsulin]

I've had exactly the same thing happen to me! I was on the Zuiderdam last year when this happened. A group of "ladies" walked into the port side area by the aft pool (designated as a smoking area...all 6 or 7 tables), and proceeded to remove the ashtrays from three empty tables, push them together, and complain LOUDLY about the smoking! Unbelieveable! BTW - I don't smoke in my cabin, and if/when I have a balcony, I ALWAYS ask those on either side of me if they mind if I smoke out there. If anyone objects, I don't. I stick to the designated outside areas.

[Jemima]

I disagree. One day the only tables we could find inside or out were "smoking". We moved the ashtray. No one sitting nearby was smoking. Most likely they also had been unable to find other tables. Had someone nearby smoked, we would have requested they not do so. Ships are the only place we go where smoking is still allowed.

[ekerr19]

I disagree. One day the only tables we could find inside or out were "smoking". We moved the ashtray. No one sitting nearby was smoking. Most likely they also had been unable to find other tables. Had someone nearby smoked, we would have requested they not do so. Ships are the only place we go where smoking is still allowed.
Why would you request someone not smoke if you are sitting in the smoking section? This is very rude, IMO. I DO NOT smoke, but this is uncalled for, if you choose to sit in the smoking section, why expect others not to?

What makes you so special?

[elmorejj]

A big thank you ekerr!....jean :cool:

[Jemima]

It is not rude. There were insufficient seats and we already had our trays of food from the buffet. If there had been other seating, we wouldn't have been sitting there.

[ekerr19]

It is not rude. There were insufficient seats and we already had our trays of food from the buffet. If there had been other seating, we wouldn't have been sitting there.You seem to be missing the point... asking people not to smoke in the smoking section??? Sorry, I've yet to be on a HAL cruise when there seemed to be insufficient seating in non-smoking sections.

If you choose to sit in smoking, please accept the fact that there may be those around you who will smoke. DH will avoid lighting up if people around us are eating - but keep in mind, he may be the minority.

If you are unable to locate a non-smoking table, ask one of the Lido attendants, chances are - they will find one for you quickly. :)

jean- no problem - a pet peeve, if I do say so as a non-smoker... :) I am currently non-smoking since 1997, who knows? it may change...

[Jemima]

I repeat, there were no tables anywhere inside or out except in the smoking section. There were others who also had to sit in this section. The situation only happened on one day on one cruise. I do not understand why the stewards weren't doing anything about this, but they didn't. It would have made sense to temporarily switch a portion of the smoking section to non-smoking. It would not have inconvenienced smokers as they had more than enough tables, and none were using this section of several tables.
Again we are very unused to this situation since restaurants in most of the cities/towns here do not permit smoking in eating areas, public buildings, stores, work places, etc. We just are not used to seeing smoking or being near smoke.

[Vic The Parrot]

What do you mean that 'smokers have alot of tables' ????


The last time I was on a HAL ship, the outdoor seating area by the pool only had 4 or 5 tables designated as smoking.

Next we'll be pushed out into the ocean!

The reason of no tables in non-smoking is pretty lame.
As I've witnessed so far, and read on these boards, those weasels will stop at nothing to get thier way.


Ekerr, that line about that woman who accosted your husband kind of raised my ire. He was a gentleman in handling the situation. But I bet deep down, he had a few choice words to say to her. I know I would have! LOL

[ekerr19]

I repeat, there were no tables anywhere inside or out except in the smoking section. There were others who also had to sit in this section. The situation only happened on one day on one cruise. I do not understand why the stewards weren't doing anything about this, but they didn't. It would have made sense to temporarily switch a portion of the smoking section to non-smoking. It would not have inconvenienced smokers as they had more than enough tables, and none were using this section of several tables.
Again we are very unused to this situation since restaurants in most of the cities/towns here do not permit smoking in eating areas, public buildings, stores, work places, etc. We just are not used to seeing smoking or being near smoke.
We still have smoking sections in restaurants here in Colorado - except for Boulder, which has gone exclusively "non-smoking" in all restaraunts and bars, so I cannot comment on that.

However, there are MANY places in the West and Mid-West that still allow smoking, especially in restaurants and bars... if you are from California, please remember - you may be the minority. I was born & raised in Southern Cali - I know first hand what it is like for smokers.... but their (California) laws against smoking are MUCH different than the rest of the country.

Europe allows smoking in more places than any I've seen - they smoked everywhere. I got used to it. I certainly did not expect anyone to change simply because I do not smoke.

Why does it make "sense" to change the smoking sections on a ship to periodically accomodate those who don't smoke? The staff would have an extremely hard time with this - I sympathize with your experience, but in all honesty - I don't expect the outcome would have been different on any other ship... or cruise line. :)

[ekerr19]

Ekerr, that line about that woman who accosted your husband kind of raised my ire. He was a gentleman in handling the situation. But I bet deep down, he had a few choice words to say to her. I know I would have! LOLVic - DH tries to be sympathetic to those who do not smoke. I do not (but used to) - he knows there are times when smoke annoys me, but I just try and remove myself from the situation (if really bothersome) rather than make an issue...

In that previous case, DH may have thought about a few choice words, but he refrained... in all reality - it would have served no productive purpose... he walked away and I commend him for that... :)

[Vic The Parrot]

I can't help but visualizing that woman being flung over the rail. Actions are stronger than words.

OK, I CAN'T do such a thing, but it's nice to dream!

[ekerr19]

I can't help but visualizing that woman being flung over the rail. Actions are stronger than words.

OK, I CAN'T do such a thing, but it's nice to dream!
Vic- Oh, I can visualize!!! :D Dreaming is good too!

[Vic The Parrot]

You got it luv!

:-D

[dakrewser]

I disagree. One day the only tables we could find inside or out were "smoking". We moved the ashtray. No one sitting nearby was smoking. Most likely they also had been unable to find other tables. Had someone nearby smoked, we would have requested they not do so. Ships are the only place we go where smoking is still allowed.
By that reasoning, would you approve of smokers going to the non-smoking section when all the smoking tables are in use, and lighting up?

The rules do work both ways......

-dave

[Vic The Parrot]

By that reasoning, would you approve of smokers going to the non-smoking section when all the smoking tables are in use, and lighting up?

The rules do work both ways......

-dave



Couldn't have said it better myself......

[doone]

Dakrewser, you took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!

[JohnR49er]

Wonder how far away some of these educated noses can smell a f*rt???????

[traveller333]

I find this thread so entertaining! I'm probably older than most of you and certainly old enough to remember when smokers and non-smokers were not at war with each other (more like it is in Europe and most parts of the world). It does seem strange that since smoking is now considered "socially incorrect" (or at least in California) that people are suddenly having such health issues with sneezing, watery eyes etc. but they didn't have such problems for generations when smoking was allowed in most areas? Could this recent outburst of allergies be psychosomatic??

Jemina, I don't know what world you live in to think that if you sit in a smoking section, that smokers should not smoke because you're there?? I think you need a reality check! From my ship experiences, the vast majority of smokers are very considerate and only smoke in designated smoking areas.

My spouse quit smoking many many years ago and to this day would LOVE to be next door to a smoker on a ship. On our HAL Baltics cruise, the people next door would smoke outside on their balcony to their hearts content....my spouse was in heaven and couldn't wait to run outside and seize the moment!

To me, strong cologne is far more offensive, YUCK.
Let's just all live and let live.

[the2ofus]

Here in Ohio we still have non-smoking and smoking sections in our restaurants. I have noticed that many restaurants have gradually reduced the size of their smoking sections as the number of smokers has gradually dwindled and smoking sections were nearly empty while non-smoling folks were lined up waiting for empty tables. Maybe the Lido staff needs to be more aware on some ships, so as to change the smoking/non-smoking configuration based on need.

I remember on the Noordam there was a large smoking section and often non-smokers had to sit there because the n-s section was full.

I am bothered by cigarette smoke and by heavy perfumes. I sometimes think that heavy smokers or perfume wearers have desensitized their own noses and they don't realize how they affect others.

Recently, on Judge Judy there was a case about a motor home non-smoking rental being returned smelling of smoke. The renter insisted that neither she nor anyone travelling with her smoked. Judge Judy walked over, smelled her hair, told her she was lying and awarded the verdict to the rental agency. Some smokers just don't realize how the smell permeates everything.

[seagulls]

I often see the suggestion that anyone who doesn't like the smell of cigarette smoke should cruise on a smoke free ship. How about pleasing the smokers and having a ship that allowed smoking ANYWHERE. That would keep us non smokers off of it for sure. But I guess the smokers' spouses and children would suffer dreadfully under such conditions.

[elmorejj]

Well the smoke free ships didn`t work, Rennaissance went under, and the Carnival Paradise is now a smoking ship sailing out of California..of all places! Guess the cruise lines didn`t make any money as it seems us folks with bad habits, have all of the vices....smoking, gambling and drinking....jean :cool:

[divinggirl]

Some people, as evidenced in this thread, have major entitlement issues. Damn people, if there are no seats in the n-s section, then either sit where you can and DEAL, or go back to your cabin with your food and quit b****ing. It really doesn't matter how "sensitive" you are to the smell of smoke or anything else, if you're in the SMOKING section you will smell smoke.

It seems smoking has been banned from most places, especially indoors and in other enclosed places in many locations, but to complain about smelling it outside is beyond petty. Outside is a big place, and you have legs or other mobility, right? So move.

Sorry, this issue really gets me worked up. People are so self-absorbed sometimes, and are only concerned with themselves, other people and their needs be damned...

Nikki

PS I do not smoke.

[merryecho]

What is HAL's policy regarding smoking in the casino? I enjoy gambling onboard, but really hate coming back to the cabin reeking of cigarettes.

[sail7seas]

Smoking is permitted in the Casino......and it is entirely likely it will continue to be permitted.

[MBeamTX]

I don't see what's difficult to understand about how the smell of cigarette or cigar smoke can drift over to an adjoining balcony. If you're downwind of a smoker on the next-door balcony, you'll know it. The ex-smokers enjoying the contact high are testimony to that.

If you have the large balcony of an S suite, the smoke may be bothersome, but there's no where to go with a BB balcony except inside. We've had both types of cabins, and we just go inside if we encounter smoke. Fortunately, we had no problems on our Alaska cruises, when we used the balconies the most. I still don't know what to make of the guy in the cabin above us on Maasdam, who managed to repeatedly cover our balcony railing in cigarette ashes. It was a lovely surprise to step out on the balcony one night and lean over the railing for a while, only to find our elbows covered in grime when we stepped back inside. :rolleyes:

I used to smoke; I understand the addiction. (I quit 14 years ago when Texas legislators decided raising the cigarette tax was a good way to pretend to fund public education, and I decided to teach them how stupid an idea that was. I also had respiratory problems that I didn't want to admit to.) I realize there are few places to smoke these days and that cruisers feel entitled to smoke on their balconies. But I'd like to enjoy my balcony, too, and smoking truly does make me ill now. It's difficult to work out something that's fair because opinions are so firmly entrenched and both sides feel so righteous in their position.

Maybe everybody could take a deep breath before wading into battle when conflicts arise. Non-smokers: either stay out of the smoking areas or suck it up. Or ask a steward to relocate a table to the non-smoking side for you. Smokers: if a non-smoker politely asks you to put it out, please listen to the request before your hackles go up. Think of it this way: what if, say, there was a sewage system problem creating a smell that prevented you from enjoying your balcony for a significant part of the cruise? You'd be pretty unhappy, wouldn't you? Well, for some people, exposure to cigarette smoke is just as unpleasant.

Happy cruising - at the port OR starboard Lido tables,
Susan

[superstein61]

Why would you request someone not smoke if you are sitting in the smoking section? This is very rude, IMO. I DO NOT smoke, but this is uncalled for, if you choose to sit in the smoking section, why expect others not to?

What makes you so special?-

OOOOH Boy - a smoking thread - there is sure to be a lot of fun arguments here :D :D :D

Seriously - I agree with Ekerr. I am not a smoker, never have been - and I detest the smell of smoke. But if I chose to sit in a smoking section - for whatever reason, it would be uncalled for for me to ask people to not smoke. That is why they make separate smoking and non-smoking sections.

[lindacat]

I am allergic to cigarette smoke. The second hand smoke causes small growths to appear on my vocal chords. I have had surgery in the past to have the growhts removed and have had to go on steroid therapy to shrink them at other times. I try and stay in the non smoking areas as much as possible, and have never asked a smoker to stop. Rather I remove myself from the situation.

That being said I have a favorite aunt who was a two pack a day smoker. She and I would argue about whether I could "smell" smoke on packages she gave me. I would leave anything that came from her house out in the yard to try and clear the smoke before I would bring it into my house or car. She finally had to quit due to some breathing issues. She is ten times worse than I am in smelling second hand smoke. When I give her a hard time, she claims that when she was smoking, she couldn't smell the smoke.

So perhaps it some times harder for smokers to understand how much the smoke can affect non smokers.

Linda

[jhannah]

C'mon divinggirl, don't hold back on us. Tell us how you really feel! ;)

It is amazing how divergent the views of smoking are. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground with folks. Very, very few are ambivalent about the topic. If we could plot the responses, it wouldn't be a bell curve, that's for sure. I feel it would be more of a dumbell plot ... flatline in the middle and huge blobs on each end of the pole.

[Esme]

Recently, on Judge Judy there was a case about a motor home non-smoking rental being returned smelling of smoke. The renter insisted that neither she nor anyone travelling with her smoked. Judge Judy walked over, smelled her hair, told her she was lying and awarded the verdict to the rental agency. Some smokers just don't realize how the smell permeates everything.


:D I saw that show also! :p But it wasn't Judy Judy, it was People's Court with Judge Marilyn Miliani. That woman sure was adamant that she didn't smoke, wasn't she!. :D

[peaches from georgia]

....she claims that when she was smoking, she couldn't smell the smoke.
Linda
That's absolutely true. In fact, smokers don't smell much of anything. :rolleyes:

I love Judge Marilyn, but sure wouldn't want to be on trial in her courtroom. You can't fool her about anything.

[ekerr19]

I've ordered things on eBay that arrive in packaging that REEKS of smoke, YUK! Now I make certain items I purchase come from "smoke-free" environments.

I can't stand the smell of stale smoke - or cheap perfume...

[BCEagle78]

I've ordered things on eBay that arrive in packaging that REEKS of smoke, YUK! Now I make certain items I purchase come from "smoke-free" environments.

I can't stand the smell of stale smoke - or cheap perfume...

How can you ensure that?

[dakrewser]

Well the smoke free ships didn`t work, Rennaissance went under, and the Carnival Paradise is now a smoking ship sailing out of California..of all places! Guess the cruise lines didn`t make any money as it seems us folks with bad habits, have all of the vices....smoking, gambling and drinking....jean :cool:
Renaissance didn't go under because of the non-smoking staus - they boats were full when we sailed on them. Rather, buying 5 new ships (doubling the fleet size) in 2001, as all travel came to a virtual halt, was the major cause of their downfall.

-dave

[Sailure]

I smoke some and I'm very conscious of the smoking areas on a ship and I know my cabin and my verandah is an area where I am permitted to smoke. I'm paying big big bucks to have the suite I want and to be able to enjoy it and all the privileges that go along with it.

I honestly think people who hate smoking that much should put their priorities in order and decide which is more important to them....having a verandah where there's a possibility of smelling smoke or having a cabin without a verandah where there won't be a chance of smelling someone else's smoke.

We all have to make sacrifices and choices...I sacrifice my money to be able to smoke on my verandah when I want to.

There could be a solution for those that want their verandahs but don't want to smell someone else's smoke...take a little fan with you and have it blow the smoke in another direction, book a room at the tail end of the ship or book a room furthest front of the ship.:D

[vijoge]

I used to smoke, she says wistfully. . .

Several years ago my husband and I were on a camping trip with his parents, both non-smokers and proud of it. One evening, as we were all sitting around the campfire (a very smoky campfire) I lit up a cigarette. My husband"s father immediately told me to either put it out or go elsewhere because he cant stand the smell of smoke! (He says, while burning a cord of wood in a small pit. . . .! )

Now he works as a blackjack dealer at a casino and never complains about the big tippers at his table who chainsmoke the entire time they're playing!

I still have trouble figuring out how someone can sit 2 feet from a forest fire and complain about one Carlton.

[Vic The Parrot]

The world is full of hypocritical knuckleheads, and thier main purpose in life is to give others a hard time for no reason.

[JDee]

[QUOTE=dakrewser]Renaissance didn't go under because of the non-smoking staus - they boats were full when we sailed on them. Rather, buying 5 new ships (doubling the fleet size) in 2001, as all travel came to a virtual halt, was the major cause of their downfall.

-dave[/QUOTE )

Wasn't Renaissance the cruise line that decided that they didn't need travel agents?? Believe Renaissance eliminated the TA's commissions, or reduced them so dramatically, that the TA's would no longer recommend or book Renaissance. After that, it was all downhill for Renaissance. Also seems they were not a financially sound line even in the good times, and TA's were somewhat reluctant to book and possibly leaving their clients in a lurch.

[dakrewser]

Wasn't Renaissance the cruise line that decided that they didn't need travel agents?? Believe Renaissance eliminated the TA's commissions, or reduced them so dramatically, that the TA's would no longer recommend or book Renaissance. After that, it was all downhill for Renaissance. Also seems they were not a financially sound line even in the good times, and TA's were somewhat reluctant to book and possibly leaving their clients in a lurch.
They weren't TA friendly, no. But inthe late 90's their prospects seemed very good so they (optomistically) tried to double the size of their fleet rather quickly. Not a good move even in the best of times!

-dave

[Jana]

Actually, being non-smoking ships is one of the reasons cited for the line's demise; they couldn't attract groups, since one in four still smoke. That wasn't the only reason, of course, but it was a big one, listed in the bankruptcy filings.

Oceania ships (the two they have from Renaissance) have a very limited smoking policy. You cannot smoke on your veranda nor in your cabin, not in the casino nor in any bar except for one tiny corner of the observation lounge and one small outside area.

By the way, the fact that ships sail full have no bearing on the bottom line. Full can also be sold at $50 pppd, hardly profitiable.

And Jemima, FYI, in North Carolina, where it's practically a state law that you have to smoke, the restaurants in most locations still have signs saying "Non-smoking section available."

Jana

[Nasmas]

As for smokers not being able to smell anything. That is very wrong, I can smell cheap perfume at 100 paces. It makes me ill. Does that give me the right to tell the elderly lady in front of me to go wash it off? You might say its not the same thing. To me, it is.

[ekerr19]

How can you ensure that?
I usually email the seller and ask if it's not posted... alot of it depends on the item - sometimes an item will not retain the smoke smell - such as pottery or glassware... if it is anything like cloth, I always ask. :)

[imsulin]

A heads up on the demise of Renaissance. When they decided not to pay commissions to Travel Agents, they didn't realize it, but it was just the beginning of their downfall. They offered a good product for a good price for...a time. When clients came into our office to book Ren, we politely declined, and had to tell them that they were on their own, and that several trip insurance companies refused to cover Ren. cruises. All of a sudden, back in about early 2002, Ren took out full double-page ads in magazines like Travel Weekly, literally BEGGING travel agents to book them, and promising to pay "commission". Too little, and way too late. This is only one reason for the decline and ultimate disappearance of Renaissance Cruises.

Personal message to jemima: I don't smoke in your or my cabin. I don't smoke on your or my balcony if it will offend you. However, if you remove the ashtray in my outside (and very limited) designated smoking area, which I utilize, I WILL advise you to replace it. If you had just sat there and not removed the ashtray, I would have been considerate of you. Courtesy works BOTH ways! Capice?

[isabellmybell]

I am another one who is bothered by some perfumes. I don`t have to be able to smell them near me, I just start sneezing and I know someone is nearby wearing the offending scent.

I would like to know if, and when they ban smoking permanently, who is willing to pay all of the billions of dollars in taxes that cigarette smoking produces.......I can see it now, a base rate of 50% tax on income......jean :cool:
Are you kidding? The health benifits would more than make up any tax you smokers give out. But hey, I have always said live and let die. Soooo all you smokers, smoke on!:rolleyes:

[jimmy2x]

"I have always said live and let die. Soooo all you smokers, smoke on!"

Charming sentiment - you should be ashamed. Tobacco is an ADDICTION as I know very well. Being self-righteous and smug may be personally satisfying, but it is not a particularly admirable character trait.

[Shangrilq]

I am a nurse and it is PROVEN now that smoking causes "lung cancer" so do you smokers want to DIE? Duh there is SO MANY things to help you stop this "nasty" habit. There is the chewing gum,patches.etc. My husband was only 40 and he smoked and he had a "massive heart attack" and almost died but he is alive today and walks everyday and watches his diet. and definetely you need to get a life!If there is anything either or us can do do help you stop smoking, please email me.


Sara

[sopa]

I am a nurse and it is PROVEN now that smoking causes "lung cancer" so do you smokers want to DIE? Duh there is SO MANY things to help you stop this "nasty" habit. There is the chewing gum,patches.etc. My husband was only 40 and he smoked and he had a "massive heart attack" and almost died but he is alive today and walks everyday and watches his diet. and definetely you need to get a life!If there is anything either or us can do do help you stop smoking, please email me.


Sara

You couldn't have taken a worse attitude/approach, Shangrilq. :eek:

[brigittetom]

I'm guessing if your husband had a heart attack at the age of forty, smoking probably wasn't the cause. Many smokers live to be 90. I'm a smoker, not proud of it and trying to quit but it's not easy.

[learjetjock]

I will tell you this JEMIMA (I do not smoke) If you asked me to leave in a smoking area I would borrow a cigarrete (sp) and light right up in front of you and then have a seat at your table.

[Sailure]

Nonsmokers should already be well aware that there will be smoking on cruise ships. The cruise industry is very dependent on the European and Asian traveler and they are much heavier smokers than Americans.

I believe if nonsmokers are bothered that much by smoking they should not cruise. I can understand if smokers are smoking OUTSIDE the desginated areas they have a right to complain but other than that, they have NO RIGHT to complain.

There's nothing worse than a selfrighteous nonsmoker, nondrinker, and nongambler on a cruise ship. They are as bad as flamers on message boards only they take it to the ship!:D

Who needs them?;)

[isabellmybell]

Let’s face it; one does not have to be a self-righteous non-smoker to know that most educated people that care about their own health and those around them do not smoke. But if all the information out there doesn’t give one enough incentive to stop, that’s their choice and their right. As long as they are not smoking in the nonsmoking areas, I’ll be more than happy to stay out of their smoke areas.;)

[sail7seas]

I am a nurse and it is PROVEN now that smoking causes "lung cancer" so do you smokers want to DIE? Duh there is SO MANY things to help you stop this "nasty" habit.


Sara
As a Nurse, you may be aware of the number of nurses and doctors who linger outside the doors to hospitals having their cigarettes. MY DH had to pass through a cloud of smoke in order to enter to come visit me in ICU this past winter. He found any number of cardiac nurses out there puffing away. So..........one can deduce from this it is not quite as easy as you imply for Anyone (including Nurses with PROVEN knowledge) to kick their habits. Please don't be so harsh and judgmental.Duh......all of these "SO MANY" things do not seem to be adequate for many educated, trained professionals.

I am a non-smoker (as is my husband) who wish you and your husband the best of good health.

[petlover]

Shangrilq,
A friend of mine, an excellent, well respected Dermotologist has tried to quit smoking at least 6 times during the 19 years I've known him. It's just as difficult for educated, professionals who "know better" to quit....addictions don't differentiate depending on your profession.

IMO. Drs. and nurses are just more likely to be "closet smokers".

[MBeamTX]

I believe if nonsmokers are bothered that much by smoking they should not cruise. I can understand if smokers are smoking OUTSIDE the desginated areas they have a right to complain but other than that, they have NO RIGHT to complain.

There's nothing worse than a selfrighteous nonsmoker, nondrinker, and nongambler on a cruise ship. They are as bad as flamers on message boards only they take it to the ship!:D

Who needs them?;) I agree that no one - smoker or nonsmoker - should be rude about the issue. But on the question of who needs nonsmokers, the answer is: EVERY BUSINESS, including cruiselines.

Smokers consitute only 22.5% of the adult U.S. population, according to the CDC. This includes people who only smoke occasionally. For the math-impaired, that means that 77.5% - more than 3 out of 4 adults - do NOT smoke. I have no idea what proportion of nonsmokers is "bothered that much by smoking", but if it's more than 1 in 3 of them, then there are arguably more people bothered by smoking than there are smokers. And you say none of them should cruise? I'm betting the cruiselines would disagree.

Cruiselines know they have to accommodate both groups. But the numbers are with the nonsmokers.

Susan

[petlover]

I do agree that cruiselines need both smokers and non-smokers to be profitable. I recall reading an interview in the Los Angeles Times several years ago from a former Renaissance Cruise executive who contributed a large part of their demise to loosing the "group travelers" where you may have several couples/families who cruise together but alas, you have 1 or 2 smokers within that group so obviously Renaissance lost the entire group to another cruise line. It wasn't a case of just loosing the 1 or 2 smokers.

The bottom line is Consideration. Smokers need to smoke ONLY in designated areas set forth by the cruise line and Non-smokers need to accept the fact that smokers will be smoking in these designated areas. If they can't handle that, don't go in these areas.

[Jemima]

Repeat. Having a place to sit to eat lunch is certainly more important than smoking. On the single occasion I mentioned way back in this thread there were no non-smoking tables available anywhere inside or out on the lido deck. Practically everyone had gotten to the buffet around the same time due to a short port day, nearly all tours returning at the same time, and a lengthy snail paced line to get back on the ship. The steward were not helping people or rather were probably overwelmed and overbusy. I don't recall ever asking anyone not to smoke, but would have done so on this occasion. There were a few places in the "smoking area", so we sat at a nearby section only to realize later it was also "smoking". One or two other tables there were also filled with non-smokers. The stewards should have, but didn't see that people were able to locate seats.
Since we don't see smoking areas on land, we usually forget that there are such places on a ship.
Our other problem was on an Alaskan cruise when the Crow's Nest was crowded (ranger was there) with people at Glacier Bay. There were a couple of people blowing clouds of smoke in that crowded room. No doubt they assumed it their "right" since they were at a "smoking" part, but it made it unpleasant for everyone else. On our last cruise there didn't seem to be any areas for smoking in the Crow's lounge during the day at that part was usually walled off. Wonderful!!!

[petlover]

"Since we don't see smoking areas on land, we usually forget that there are such places on a ship"

Jemima, I was curious where you live? I live in CA and even here we have areas where smoking is allowed such as outside dining patios, even an atrium at LAX airport.
Just curious where you live that has no smoking areas on land???

[Spot]

Zuiderdam Smokers

Can anyone tell me how much cigarettes are onboard?
I'm trying to decide if I should get them before I leave or after I'm onboard.

Leaving on the Z this Saturday so your response will be appreciated.

[ekerr19]

Zuiderdam Smokers

Can anyone tell me how much cigarettes are onboard?
I'm trying to decide if I should get them before I leave or after I'm onboard.

Leaving on the Z this Saturday so your response will be appreciated.

Deb-

DH always buys a couple of cartons on board, but selection is somewhat limited. He gets two cartons for about $30-$35 (for both - not each..) - he smokes Marlboro Ultra Lights, 100's... when he is not trying to quit ;)

Hope this helps. :)

[Spot]

Are cigarettes confisgated or can you have them to smoke while onboard?

[imsulin]

Jemima - I'd also like to know where you live - where there are no "land" smoking areas. I used to live in California, and agree with petlover.

"Having a place to sit and eat lunch is certainly more important than smoking". Only in YOUR opinion.

And - the next time you're on a cruise ship and cannot locate a non-smoking table, please advise a crew member before taking it upon yourself to sit at one of the 6-7 designated outdoor smoking tables and then complaining about it. Thank you.

[elmorejj]

Spot, no, cigarettes are not confiscated and given back at the end of the cruise. Most brands that they sell, are between $15 and $18 per carton....jean :cool:

[Sailure]

Let’s face it; one does not have to be a self-righteous non-smoker to know that most educated people that care about their own health and those around them do not smoke. But if all the information out there doesn’t give one enough incentive to stop, that’s their choice and their right. As long as they are not smoking in the nonsmoking areas, I’ll be more than happy to stay out of their smoke areas.;)
I agree that people who smoke should smoke in smoking areas. I also said that the cruiselines have a whole bunch of Europeans and Asians who are much heavier smokers than Americans that they depend on for revenue as well.

[Sailure]

Cruiselines know they have to accommodate both groups. But the numbers are with the nonsmokers.

Susan
The numbers may be with the non-smokers in the USA, but the cruiselines have passengers from all over the world and Europeans are heavy smokers and heavy cruisers.

[imsulin]

Absolutely right, Sailure!! The world is a great big place!! Europeans, Asians, South
Americans...etc.

[Jemima]

No, I don't live in California and, yes, people here can smoke out-of-doors. However, the lido deck is not out-of-doors except when the covering is open which it wasn't. Yes, we did ask and were given no help in seating.

[sail7seas]

As of July 5, 2004, in Massachusetts, there is no smoking permitted in any workplace. No restaurants, no bars, no clubs, no offices, no public buildings.....not even on outdoor patio dining areas. If somebody works there, no one smokes there!


No smoking....anywhere in the State.

[doone]

S7S, I have to disagree with you on that smoking on an outdoor patio where people eat, but yes you can smoke outside on a patio where dinner is served. I have been to numerous restaurants here in Mass. after the July date and sat outside where the area has been set aside for smokers who can dine here as well. As a matter of fact, just went to a restaurant last Thursday here in Mass., sat outside and smoked, ate, drank and was merry.

You can also smoke in private clubs, they have been exempt.

[sail7seas]

You are correct, Doone, about the outdoor patio part not being STATE LAW. That is regulated by local town/city laws. On the North Shore out side of Boston, many cities/towns do not allow smoking on outdoor patios of their restaurants. They say "smoke in the workplace is smoke in the workplace" and the ban it. Some are now considering banning smoking at parks and on beaches.

They are also now mentioning making it illegal to smoke in your private car. They claim it will cut down on cigarette butts thrown onto streets and they say it is a distraction, much the same as cell phones, in that people reach in the pocketbooks and jackets etc to get their cigarettes and then take their eyes of the road and their attention focuses on lighting it and then flicking ashes into ashtrays. (I won't even voice my personal opinion about all that!). :)

[doone]

That will be the day someone tells me I can't smoke in my private car or home. If they want that they better pay for my car and home, that's ridiculous. I thought in America, we had freedom, that's not it in my estimation. Even in communist countries, you could still smoke.

As far as banning smoking on public beaches, that's ridiculous as well. I always clean up my area when I leave, but I always see others being sloppy about not cleaning up after themselves, cigarette butts, food containers, etc., soon you won't be able to eat on the beaches either.

People throw all kinds of stuff out their vehicle windows, not only cigarette butts, so now you not only won't be able to smoke in your car, but you won't be able to eat in it either????? I see no difference with their logic here, its stupid. Massachusetts is on the top of the list for being one stupid state!!!!

[bookworm0911]

Smoke-****s are in every state, doone, and their objective is to stop us from smoking everywhere- office, outdoors, restaurants, private cars, homes, and even cruiseships.

But then again you can't even go into a library now without law enforcement having the right by Federal law to find out what you are reading and most people accept that without a complaint. It is interesting that people get more upset about restrictions on smoking than their loss of privacy and basic freedoms (and I am a smoker). :eek:

[doone]

Bookworm, incredible, isn't it.

[dakrewser]

As far as banning smoking on public beaches, that's ridiculous as well. People throw all kinds of stuff out their vehicle windows, not only cigarette butts,
But McDonald's wrappers don't start brush fires as thrown cigarettes do, frequently, here in California. AS to beaches, if people won't clean up after themselves, then laws will be passed to forbid the activities that cause the mess.

-dave

[doone]

Campfires, lightning strikes, and down right carelessness start fires, not just cigarettes being thrown out the windows.

[tbroido]

There are so many straw man arguments flying around here, I hope nobody lights a match.

Let me start with I am a non-smoker and probably could be described as an anti-smoker. I believe in Democracy and the process that establishes laws, and the right for people and organizations to establish rules they see as being in their best interest. Having stated that:

Jemima: You are so out of line, you'd need an orthodontist to straighten you out. If the rule is that you can smoke, then how dare you enter that area and re-designate it as non-smoking because it inconvenienced you to a) wait until tables cleared or b) go elsewhere? Smokers deserve, in my opinion, to be put in a ghetto, but for Heaven's sake, leave them be in their ghetto.

Vic, Isabellmybell and Seatrial: Please don't stop taking the medication. You know how you get. ;-)>

Evryone else: Laws about smoking are laws of equity in that they balance the rights/needs of one group against those of another. Folks who would say, in one wheezing breath, that smoking is allowed (wherever) so get over it and then complain about too much perfume are missing the point. The folks we elect have recognized, in many states, the danger of second-hand smoke AND the rights of those who smoke to have the air remain untainted. If you and enough people can convince those elected officials of the danger and inconvenience of excessive perfume, go for it. Personally I find it obtrusive, too. It always sems the ones who bathe in perfume also own the cheapoest most G-D awful brands. Nevertheless, we must all get over things about which we have the right to do nothing.

The cruise ships, for their own reasons and within their rights, have decided, for the most part, to allow smoking in more the European fashion than to restrict in in the more American fashion. If you know that, and hate it, write letters and try to get them to change it. In the meantime, accept the situation or spend your vacation dollars elsewhere. Please don't cry to me if you go into a situation knowing it is frought with possibility of discomfort for you and then find that discomfort exists.

[tbroido]

WHen I was a kid, cigarette butts were considered litter. People filled their ashtrays and then, most of them, disposed of the butts all at once when the ashtray got too smelly or full. Sometime in the last 25 years it has become acceptable to throw one's cigarette, often lit, out the window. Beside the danger of forest or brush fires, the number of cigarette butts sitting against the curb on urban roadsides is staggering. They aren't apple cores folks, that some squirrel will eat or that will bio-degrade in a few days. They are litter.

So, why is it different throwing a butt out your window than a bag of trash? If you don't like the smell of stale butts in your car or the inconvenience of having to empty an ashtray, tough sh** ! It may be your right to smoke but it is not legal to litter. One cigarette butt is relatively small but the cumulative effect of each smoker sending an average of 8 butts per day out the window is visible and disturbing.

Go ahead and smoke 'em if you've got 'em, but dispose of the remains properly, please.

[dakrewser]

Campfires, lightning strikes, and down right carelessness start fires, not just cigarettes being thrown out the windows.
Y4es, they do. But not in urbal areas (well, carelessness, as in throwing lit ciggies out windows!). This isn't speculation on my part, it's verified information from the fire departments in the bay area. We're not talking a tiny brush fire on the Route 128 median, either, but fires that destroy huge acreage, homes and lives.

I don't care what you do in your car, as long as you keep it in your car.

-dave

[Randyk47]

OK. We're smokers. Bad, bad, bad.....I know, we know that we shouldn't but we do. :o But.....we don't smoke where we shouldn't. We don't throw butts out car windows or over the sides of boats. We're even careful to consider our neighbors on a cruise on our verandah and have gone back inside our cabin as to not offend a fellow cruiser. We don't even like sitting in smoking areas of bars or restuarants where we're right up against the non-smoking section and there's no physical barrier. We're careful, we're polite, we're considerate.....just wish some non-smokers were the same. You'd be surprised....we've actually stopped smoking when asked even in designated areas where smoking was permitted but we were asked nicely and responded accordingly. Yep....there are jerks that smoke and I'm not making excuses for them....but it's a two way street and most of us smokers go more than half way to accommodate non-smokers.

[tbroido]

It comes down to those who are looking for compromise and the golden rule and those who are looking for trouble. The former sometimes get iot and the latter almost always do. Try to surround yourself with compromisers and those who are considerate and try to avoid toxic people.

I run a company with about 14 customer service people. SOmetimes the pax on the other end get downright abusive. I tell the ones who get upset, "Your reward after the phone call is over is that you get to be you. Their punishment is that they are stuck being them." That person who leans over the veranda and says as his/her opening salvo, "Do you mind not smoking - it's disgusting," with contempt dripping from his/her fangs is likely to have poor relationships as a result of low social skills. Likewise, a smoker approached nicely and asked if there is a way certain times could be arranged for a smokeless experience for the neighboring cruiser who responds by cursing or blowing smoke in the face of the supplicant is probably spreading many more toxins in life beside just tar and nicotine.

It all comes down to that trite but oh so true, Golden Rule. If you were the other guy, how would you like to be treated. I am not always successful, but I sure try to start out with the goal of win-win.

[isabellmybell]

Smokers deserve, in my opinion, to be put in a ghetto, but for Heaven's sake, leave them be in their ghetto.
http://smileys.******************/cat/23/23_6_118.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)OMG, that is toooo funny! I so agree! http://smileys.******************/cat/23/23_6_123.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)

Vic, Isabellmybell and Seatrial: Please don't stop taking the medication. You know how you get. ;-)>
http://smileys.******************/cat/15/15_6_3.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001) I'm out, got any for me:D

http://smileys.******************/cat/23/23_6_111.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[TedC]

Steve Martin summed it up with a great line:

When asked, "mind if I smoke?" He replied " No, mind if I phart?"


(Both are very obnoxious, but one can also be deadly!)

[tbroido]

Ted C. wrote:

"(Both are very obnoxious, but one can also be deadly!)"

Actually, both can. Methane gas, in the right conditions and in high enough concentrations can kill a person. There was this one time when my family was visiting my brother-in-laws family in Indiana....well that's a whole other story.

[doone]

Rude is rude, whether your a smoker or not. Some of these posts are a perfect example of that.

[Vic The Parrot]

Smokers deserve, in my opinion, to be put in a ghetto, but for Heaven's sake, leave them be in their ghetto.


Vic, Isabellmybell and Seatrial: Please don't stop taking the medication. You know how you get. ;-)>




Huh??????????????

[isabellmybell]

Huh??????????????
I was responding to "tbroido" #125, Those where her quotes. You know haha, being funny. Soooooooooo, ok then, hehe http://smileys.******************/cat/7/7_19_4.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001), ahhhhhhhhh bad connection???

[ekerr19]

Jemima: You are so out of line, you'd need an orthodontist to straighten you out. If the rule is that you can smoke, then how dare you enter that area and re-designate it as non-smoking because it inconvenienced you to a) wait until tables cleared or b) go elsewhere? Smokers deserve, in my opinion, to be put in a ghetto, but for Heaven's sake, leave them be in their ghetto.

Vic, Isabellmybell and Seatrial: Please don't stop taking the medication. You know how you get. ;-)>

Evryone else: Laws about smoking are laws of equity in that they balance the rights/needs of one group against those of another. Folks who would say, in one wheezing breath, that smoking is allowed (wherever) so get over it and then complain about too much perfume are missing the point.

The cruise ships, for their own reasons and within their rights, have decided, for the most part, to allow smoking in more the European fashion than to restrict in in the more American fashion. If you know that, and hate it, write letters and try to get them to change it. In the meantime, accept the situation or spend your vacation dollars elsewhere. Please don't cry to me if you go into a situation knowing it is frought with possibility of discomfort for you and then find that discomfort exists.
tbriodo-

I agree with SOME of what you say, however - I'd like to point out that name calling and comments about "taking medication" weaken your arguements and are childish IMO. People are ENTITLED to their opinion, if you disagree - state your case (as you have) but, please - let us not wander down the childish path of insults and labeling of our fellow posters.

That said, I absolutely cannot stand those people that continue to litter by throwing their cigarette butts out of car windows or on the ground. I think they should be fined for this. As I mentioned DH smokes, doesn't smoke in the house or cars - but always make sure his butts are extinguished and put in trash receptacle. If one is not handy, he pockets the butt til he can throw it away. An old Marine Corp. habit, I guess - but I wish everyone else were as considerate. :)

[imsulin]

ekerr - I do the same as your husband. I don't smoke in my house or in my ship cabin, and NEVER toss butts out of the car window, or leave them on the ground! I always try to be a considerate smoker, and do stick to the designated smoking areas, but have a problem with non-smokers who take it upon themselves to "invade" the smoking area and then complain about it.