RevNeal-I'm really nervous about out of control kids now

[WaStateBG]

I have been following RevNeal's Live from the Eurodam thread with great interest. My first cruise is next spring and my question is whether this is a normal occurance or if something else was going on? I know he said the children were approached but does anyone ever confront the parents? I don't want to get flamed here, I don't know enough about the childrens programs on the ship to know whose responsible for the kids, the parents or the cruiseline?

Also, will there likely be a lot of kids on the Amsterdam in Alaska in May?

[sail7seas]

Aren't parents ALWAYS responsible for their children? Whether the crew needs to remind the parents of that is another thing.

[The Big Booper]

I have been following RevNeal's Live from the Eurodam thread with great interest. My first cruise is next spring and my question is whether this is a normal occurance or if something else was going on? I know he said the children were approached but does anyone ever confront the parents? I don't want to get flamed here, I don't know enough about the childrens programs on the ship to determine whose responsible for the kids, the parents or the cruiseline?

Also, will there likely be a lot of kids on the Amsterdam in Alaska in May?

Over the years we have been on 2 HAL cruises, the Nieuw Amsterdam for the Millenium and the Amsterdam to Alaska out of Seattle RT. Neither cruise had many kids on board, which is typical of HAL in general.

I know HAL has some kind of kid program but I question if the staff on HAL knows how to control a lot of kids. There are far more children on RCI (our fave line, look at the sig) and Princess but you never see the out of control behavior that the good Rev is talking about.

And we have been on the Freedom in the summer with 3800 + pax, many of whom are children. Kids all over the place and most were well behaved. And on a king-kong ship like that, lots for the kiddies to do and work off their energy.

I don't think most HAL ships have the facilities to keep energetic kids out of sight of the adult passengers. The kids are running around for lack of other stuff to do, such as this waterpark -

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/12003/2888194990096246620S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2888194990096246620BNURSj)

http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/41399/2125290410096246620S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2125290410096246620gSdNZx)

or the main pool -

http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/43258/2196695470096246620S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2196695470096246620OutBXC)

and the adult only Solarium pool,and they enforce it !

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/43136/2662932190096246620S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2662932190096246620AEGQsL)

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42289/2000346310096246620S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2000346310096246620AjzeIc)

Not to mention the roller blading, ice skating rink, rock wall and extensive kid's programs which separates the kids from everybody else.

If we were to do a summer cruise again , never on HAL !

[Djptcp]

I approached a parent once after his 10+ year old son jumped on me in the pool on a NCL cruise. I had watched that kid all week being so obnoxious around the pool doing cannonballs, etc. and his father just threw his hands up and said to me, "he's just a kid." My response was, "why don't you just try being a parent." There are so many well-behaved children and adults on the cruises, but there are always a few out-of-control at all ages. DH and I do not have children, so we never know quite how to respond to these situations, but that boy hurt me in the pool and I wasn't about to let him get away with it after observing his shenanigans throughout the cruise. Unfortunately, his parents let him get away with it.

We have not been on an Alaska cruise, so I can't comment on whether there are many kids on those kinds of cruises. I wouldn't worry about it, though, and just enjoy your wonderful cruise!

[Cruising-along]

I really doubt you'll see that many kids on an Alaska cruise in May, before school is out. Our first cruise was to Alaska. It was August and we didn't see many kids. We've never seen a problem with kids on any of our cruises, usually what few children were on board were very well behaved.

Don't worry!

[jhannah]

It's always the parents who are responsible for their children. Sad thing is, in some cases the parents want to shift their oversight duties to the crew in the kids' program. Most kids I've seen on HAL ships have been very well mannered. But there are always exceptions ... on any ship. Ya' pays yer money, ya' takes yer chances.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Also, will there likely be a lot of kids on the Amsterdam in Alaska in May?
I definitely would not worry, I would be willing to bet you will be able to count on two hands how many passengers under the age of 18 will be on board the ship. Most schools are not out yet in May and you see very few families on Alaska cruises in May. In most cases unless you are on a Holiday cruises HAL tends to have fewer children than most cruise lines.

[Krazy Kruizers]

The cruise line is not responsible for the children.

The are SUPPOSED to be responsible for their children -- but so often in recent years this is not the case. Parents just get on a ship and have the notion that the cruise line will take car of their children. You would be surprised how many parents do not enroll their children in Club HAL -- the parents do not want to have to tip the counselors!!!

We have encountered unrully children on HAl and Princess. Nothing was done. Things were so bad on a Princess cruise that we had to call the purser's office in the wee hours of the morning as the people in the cabin next time allowed their child to play all night -- purser's response to us -- can't help when their play time is. We went back to work dead tired.

[Krazy Kruizers]

On our May Westerdam Alaskan cruise we had about 90 children on board -- all very well behaved!!

[The Big Booper]

On our May Westerdam Alaskan cruise we had about 90 children on board -- all very well behaved!!

I can't remember anything on our HAL Alaska cruise about kids so I guess there were no unruly ones.:rolleyes:

[LAFFNVEGAS]

KK the Westerdam tends to draw more families with children. When we were on the Amsterdam June 13th we had something like 22 children on board and I was told this was the most so far that season. Yes, the Oosterdam and Westerdam are drawing a higher percentage of children just for the shear fact that there are more passengers on the Vista Class ships.

We were even on a Thanksgiving cruise on the Zaandam a few years ago and we had something like 30 children which was shockingly high for the Zaandam where that same week the Oosterdam had over 360 children.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I can't remember anything on our HAL Alaska cruise about kids so I guess there were no unruly ones.:rolleyes:

That's what I said about our cruise.

What ship were you on?

[srlafleur]

Also, will there likely be a lot of kids on the Amsterdam in Alaska in May?

We did an Alaska cruise with Princess a couple of years ago, and now that you mention it, I don't remember seeing ANY kids! I'm sure there must have been some, perhaps pre-school age, but I honestly don't remember any. :confused:

[CowPrincess]

We went to Alaska in May, and there weren't a lot of kids. A few, mostly toddler-aged, and a few near-adults travelling with extended families.

The kids are running around for lack of other stuff to do,

I would respectfully disagree. The kids are running around because their parents are not parenting.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I would respectfully disagree. The kids are running around because their parents are not parenting.

That is so true!!!

[Travalerie]

The way I see it is that you are going to hear all the extreme stories on this board. You have to make a decision to enjoy your cruise regardless of the children. I have read stories/threads that would want to make a mother of two cancel the cruise. I just read about a woman who sailed on HAL with a well behaved two year old, that was stared down in the dining room on formal night because she brought her kid! She was so uncomfortable she ate in the Lido the rest of the time. I could think the other way and be afraid the HAL passengers will not take to me or my kids. However I want to sail HAL and I am going to. I am going to make this trip about my family and I and really not pay attention to people if they do not like my presence on the ship for whatever reason. I think my kids are well behaved and I have strong opinions about unruly kids myself. I have actually avoided Disney because I did not want to be around all the madness of tons of kids. I have decided I am going to be respectful of other passengers and hope they will be respectful to me and my family. I mean my goodness, if kids can be in church, why can't they be in the dining room on a cruise:). I have walked out of service if I felt my kids are distracting people and will do the same if something happens during my cruise. By the way we plan to sail Alaska on HAL in May 2009, so we may add to the kids on the ship;)!

[birder22]

There were 90 3-17 year olds on the Westerdam the last week of May. I did not see any unruly children.

Some western school districts are basically done for the year by Memorial Day so late May and early June sailings could have more children than expected based on east coast school schedules.

[birder22]

After reading posts on this board, I was worried that we would get unpleasant comments or looks from other passengers because of our children. But that did not happen and everyone was quite pleasant to them.

We had one incident where my son was knocked over by an older woman pushing her way through the people entering the dining room. But she was shoving everyone in her way and it did not appear to be directed at my son. My children were also surprised to hear adults "demand" items from the crew (like extra scoops of ice cream) in an unpleasant voice and "forget" to say please and thank you.

So no unruly children were seen but there were a few adults on board who had left their manners at home.

[The Big Booper]

That's what I said about our cruise.

What ship were you on?

The Amsterdam, RT out of Seattle. July 2003.

We are both at the point where we can start to collect social security w/o consideration of our other earnings, but we like to do things on the ship, within limits. So we tend to go with younger ships, and like RCI for their activities. We even do the Quest on the smaller ships:rolleyes: .

We were following the "Live from the Eurodam" threads since we have almost 450,000 Marriot miles accumulated which will buy a large cabin on a HAL Vista class 10 day trip in Europe, and the lack of shipboard activities wouldn't mean that much on this kind of cruise.

The Eurodam seems to have been infected by the Carnival cram-em-on philosophy which means we will look for the Vista class. It is a shame that HAL has abandoned the NY to the Caribbean market, but the old folks don't drink and gamble enough to cover the fuel costs going up and down the east coast to Fl. and the Carribbean. This was told to good friends of ours by the CD on the Noordam this past January. Not to mention the very high port charges that NYC charges.

[Cruising-along]

My children were also surprised to hear adults "demand" items from the crew (like extra scoops of ice cream) in an unpleasant voice and "forget" to say please and thank you.

So no unruly children were seen but there were a few adults on board who had left their manners at home.

I've seen more than a few of those myself :rolleyes:

[The Big Booper]

We went to Alaska in May, and there weren't a lot of kids. A few, mostly toddler-aged, and a few near-adults travelling with extended families.

I would respectfully disagree. The kids are running around because their parents are not parenting.

Easy to say that, but still the lack of activities has some bearing on this. Let them hang out at the H20 water park and blast themselves and others with the water cannons.

After reading posts on this board, I was worried that we would get unpleasant comments or looks from other passengers because of our children. But that did not happen and everyone was quite pleasant to them.

We had one incident where my son was knocked over by an older woman pushing her way through the people entering the dining room. But she was shoving everyone in her way and it did not appear to be directed at my son. My children were also surprised to hear adults "demand" items from the crew (like extra scoops of ice cream) in an unpleasant voice and "forget" to say please and thank you.

So no unruly children were seen but there were a few adults on board who had left their manners at home.

Maybe these are the unruly kids all grown up and have now become cranky old-timers:eek: . You make the call.:D

[Jemima]

We haven't been on any cruises with out of control kids. A very few times we've seen isolated poor behavior, but it hasn't been ongoing and it hasn't been more than one or two kids. We do not generally cruise short cruises nor do we usually cruise mid-summer or around Christmas.

[Two if by Sea]

We had 150 kids onboard the Maasdam (ages 0-17, but only a handful were under 3). They were noticeable in the pool, but otherwise I was surprised at how few of them I saw most of the time, especially considering that my daughter was one of them. I don't know where they went, but it wasn't where we were.

At dinner, we were only seated with another child once (we were a bit disappointed for our own DD, that she didn't have other kids to eat with, but she made up for it by spending every possible minute in Club HAL).

There were a few kids jumping into the Lido pool one hot afternoon, but really that didn't seem unreasonable, given the heat and the hour of the day.

On balance, I think almost everyone was well-behaved on our trip. I saw only two temper tantrums and both of them were by adults (and fortunately they were brief and didn't disrupt anything significant). I also saw adults who might have had REASON to be having temper tantrums (e.g. STILL no luggage four days into our one-week cruise) but who were behaving with decorum and taste.

[san diego sue]

Some cruise lines handle things when there are unruly kids. A couple of years ago on a Celebrity cruise to Hawaii, there was a family with really bad teen age boys. they were throwing lighted cigarettes down from their balcony to ours, terrorizing teenage girls, scratched up one of the elevators amongst other things. Captain put them off the ship in Hawaii. We were all relieved to see them go.
Sue

[cf_chuck]

Originally Posted by CowPrincess http://boards12.cruisecritic.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=15528357#post15528357)
We went to Alaska in May, and there weren't a lot of kids. A few, mostly toddler-aged, and a few near-adults travelling with extended families.

I would respectfully disagree. The kids are running around because their parents are not parenting.

Easy to say that, but still the lack of activities has some bearing on this. Let them hang out at the H20 water park and blast themselves and others with the water cannons.

Did the kids pick and pay for the cruise and bring their parents along at their expense? I doubt it but you might have better information. IMO, your opinion amounts to transferring the parent's responsibility for making appropriate choices to the cruise line. I do agree that, the more distractions that can be offered, the better the chance of not subjecting someone to unruly behavior. But there is no secret that these activities are not offered on HAL, so therefore the responsibility for choosing HAL and the resulting behavior still remains with the parents. If the parents do not know their children sufficiently to ensure that their energies are constructively spent, then I would conclude that they are not parenting.

[CowPrincess]

Easy to say that, but still the lack of activities has some bearing on this.

My position that parents need to actually parent (as a verb) will not be changed, and I'm fairly certain you will not change your position. So we'll just have to disagree. (No need for any popcorn, darnit :D )

[triciaminkc]

On our cruise to Alaska earlier this month I actually had a man stop me after the first formal night and tell me how impressed he was with our 4 children (14,12, 10 and 7) He said that he had been on many cruises and mine were the best mannared he had seen! WE REALLY APPRECIATED THIS! Please don't always be negative. Tell parents and children when they are doing a good job also!

[Saphire]

We have taken our children on cruises and to nice restaurants and have gotten 'the look' from older patrons. It always irritated me that they were already pre-judging my kids. They were just waiting and watching for something to go wrong. Then they could all talk about it, and compare stories. Ugh.

I don't like being watched, and I don't like people waiting for me to mess up. Just enjoy your dinner or cruise and stop staring! (If you are going to stare, no grumpy faces!)

Our kids were almost always well behaved and there have been countless times that people have approached us to tell us so. But I do think that the older folks can sometimes be waiting for the fall. I have often felt like I was on a stage.

My kids are older now...26, 22, 18. Now, I look at most younger couples with comapassion and admiration. I know how challenging and difficult it can be to keep it together. So, I just smile. :)

[Cruzman]

The Amsterdam, RT out of Seattle. July 2003.

We are both at the point where we can start to collect social security w/o consideration of our other earnings, but we like to do things on the ship, within limits. So we tend to go with younger ships, and like RCI for their activities. We even do the Quest on the smaller ships:rolleyes: .

We were following the "Live from the Eurodam" threads since we have almost 450,000 Marriot miles accumulated which will buy a large cabin on a HAL Vista class 10 day trip in Europe, and the lack of shipboard activities wouldn't mean that much on this kind of cruise.

The Eurodam seems to have been infected by the Carnival cram-em-on philosophy which means we will look for the Vista class. It is a shame that HAL has abandoned the NY to the Caribbean market, but the old folks don't drink and gamble enough to cover the fuel costs going up and down the east coast to Fl. and the Carribbean. This was told to good friends of ours by the CD on the Noordam this past January. Not to mention the very high port charges that NYC charges.

Everything associated with the Port of NY is extremely high priced. Check out what it costs to park your car for 9 days. Of course you've already spent a fortune getting there what with all the bridge and turnpike tolls.

[pipedreams62]

I approached a parent once after his 10+ year old son jumped on me in the pool on a NCL cruise. I had watched that kid all week being so obnoxious around the pool doing cannonballs, etc. and his father just threw his hands up and said to me, "he's just a kid." My response was, "why don't you just try being a parent." There are so many well-behaved children and adults on the cruises, but there are always a few out-of-control at all ages. DH and I do not have children, so we never know quite how to respond to these situations, but that boy hurt me in the pool and I wasn't about to let him get away with it after observing his shenanigans throughout the cruise. Unfortunately, his parents let him get away with it.

We have not been on an Alaska cruise, so I can't comment on whether there are many kids on those kinds of cruises. I wouldn't worry about it, though, and just enjoy your wonderful cruise!


Didn't forget to give him the mandatory 'Dunk"

[WaStateBG]

The way I see it is that you are going to hear all the extreme stories on this board. You have to make a decision to enjoy your cruise regardless of the children. I have read stories/threads that would want to make a mother of two cancel the cruise. I just read about a woman who sailed on HAL with a well behaved two year old, that was stared down in the dining room on formal night because she brought her kid! She was so uncomfortable she ate in the Lido the rest of the time. I could think the other way and be afraid the HAL passengers will not take to me or my kids. However I want to sail HAL and I am going to. I am going to make this trip about my family and I and really not pay attention to people if they do not like my presence on the ship for whatever reason. I think my kids are well behaved and I have strong opinions about unruly kids myself. I have actually avoided Disney because I did not want to be around all the madness of tons of kids. I have decided I am going to be respectful of other passengers and hope they will be respectful to me and my family. I mean my goodness, if kids can be in church, why can't they be in the dining room on a cruise:). I have walked out of service if I felt my kids are distracting people and will do the same if something happens during my cruise. By the way we plan to sail Alaska on HAL in May 2009, so we may add to the kids on the ship;)!

I would feel horrible for that to happen to someone, to not feel like they could enter the dining room if they had children with them. I would have no issue with being seated at a table with children. You family would be more than welcome at my table. There's a big difference between seated at a table and running/skipping through the dining room. As RevNeal pointed out, someone could really get hurt and I'm sure they'd find some way to blame HAL.

[Felizcruiser08]

Some of the opinions about children/parents are a bit disconcerting. When we researched HAL cruise lines, I never got any indication that Children were frowned upon. Club HAL for Kids - excursions with kids , etc... In fact the DVD and info we read spoke of "family cruising".

I see that the main issue from what I have read is proper parenting, it would annoy me to have kids running around willy nilly, but we know from prior cruises that is the chance we are taking. We are looking into a future cruise on Regent cruises for alone time, where no children are allowed, I think there are several other lines, adults only. That may be an option for people who are concerned about the possible lack of parental responsibility.

We will be taking our 5 y/o on his second cruise, so far he has been well behaved. He is usually a joy to be around, very happy. We are strict and are conscious of other passengers, guests of a hotel, etc... but regardless of how digilant a parent is, there are times when children get excited, over- zealous, etc... in spite of the best efforts of parents, that is a fact of life and yes I agree it is the parent's responsibility to control their children. That being said it is unrealistic for a parent to hover over their children 24/7, in the event a child may accidentally splash, bump into, another cruiser in the pool. ( For example )

I would hope that since there are many concerns about children maybe HAL will distribute a set of guidelines and suggestions for parents cruising with children in the event they are not aware of common courtesies regarding their children's behavior and fellow passengers.

One of the reasons we chose HAL was because on our last cruise, Caribbean Princess 9/07 - a group of adult passengers were in the kiddie pool every time we tried to use it. They were inebriated and smoking, would not leave even after several requests, this went on for days. But did it ruin our cruise? Absolutely not. We have also enjoyed reading CC experiences and are quite excited about our cruise.

I hope that some of the posts/reviews are the exception and not the norm and that everyone has a wonderful, fun, (peaceful for some) cruise, together.
Take care,

[CowPrincess]

I would hope that since there are many concerns about children maybe HAL will distribute a set of guidelines and suggestions for parents cruising with children in the event they are not aware of common courtesies regarding their children's behavior and fellow passengers.


The parents that would most need to read the "guidelines" would not, or if they did read them, would never ever think about enforcing the behaviour for little Johnny or Sally.

It truly is not cruising with children that gets some people upset -- it is cruising with "adjourned" parents who allow their children to do whatever, whenever. Those parents are in the minority, but can have a MAJOR impact on their fellow cruisers' enjoyment.

[cf_chuck]

Some of the opinions about children/parents are a bit disconcerting. When we researched HAL cruise lines, I never got any indication that Children were frowned upon. Club HAL for Kids - excursions with kids , etc... In fact the DVD and info we read spoke of "family cruising".

I see that the main issue from what I have read is proper parenting, it would annoy me to have kids running around willy nilly, but we know from prior cruises that is the chance we are taking. We are looking into a future cruise on Regent cruises for alone time, where no children are allowed, I think there are several other lines, adults only. That may be an option for people who are concerned about the possible lack of parental responsibility.

I think you are reading more into the commentary here than what is warranted. It's true that some HAL cruisers would prefer not having children aboard. But the sense I get here, and my own personal opinion, is that what is important is to have a confidence that any disruptive behavior will be addressed quickly.

I took my daughter on her first cruise when she was 4 and it was a Red Boat (Disney). At 4 she acted like a 4 year old, but she was surrounded by other 4 year olds, so her behavior didn't stand out. In spite of that, there were plenty of opportunities to address her behavior and we did. Her second cruise was when she was 12, on HAL and she was at that time a young lady.

I don't buy into your comment about lack of parental responsibility. Yes, kids act out, but parents can take immediate action to mitigate the ramifications, provide correction and try to move on. As I look at everyday life, I am surrounded by the lack of parental responsibility. When I go on a cruise, I am trying to escape the everyday reality. Having parents that assume their responsibility is very much appreciated.

We will be taking our 5 y/o on his second cruise, so far he has been well behaved. He is usually a joy to be around, very happy. We are strict and are conscious of other passengers, guests of a hotel, etc... but regardless of how digilant a parent is, there are times when children get excited, over- zealous, etc... in spite of the best efforts of parents, that is a fact of life and yes I agree it is the parent's responsibility to control their children. That being said it is unrealistic for a parent to hover over their children 24/7, in the event a child may accidentally splash, bump into, another cruiser in the pool. ( For example )

I don't get the sense that most here are trying to find trivial infractions of behavior to create a case against having children on board. I do concern myself with the escape clause you left before you defined trivial infractions. It is, IMO, not unrealistic for a parent to be responsible for a child's behavior 24/7 or to ensure that a competent child care worker is able to substitute. So I suggest that you focus on ensuring that your child will behave in a manner appropriate to the situation, figure out what you will do to handle exceptions and not give yourself excuses. This comment is not about cruising, but about life. Cruising does amplify things since it is a confined, regimented environment.

[cf_chuck]

The parents that would most need to read the "guidelines" would not, or if they did read them, would never ever think about enforcing the behaviour for little Johnny or Sally.

It truly is not cruising with children that gets some people upset -- it is cruising with "adjourned" parents who allow their children to do whatever, whenever. Those parents are in the minority, but can have a MAJOR impact on their fellow cruisers' enjoyment.

LOL - I have no emperical evidence supporting your conclusions, but my gut feeling is you're right.

I prefer the term "recused" to "adjourned", but we're both in the same ball park. Who's on first?

[cruzincurt]

OK, two pages later where's the poster who would rather have unruly kids (just being kids) than drunk adults or crabby old people?

Should be along any time now.

[Felizcruiser08]

cf_chuckIt's true that some HAL cruisers would prefer not having children aboard.

To date HAL does allow families on their ships, why would someone who prefers Not to be around families choose HAL?

I don't buy into your comment about lack of parental responsibility. Yes, kids act out, but parents can take immediate action to mitigate the ramifications, provide correction and try to move on. As I look at everyday life, I am surrounded by the lack of parental responsibility. When I go on a cruise, I am trying to escape the everyday reality. Having parents that assume their responsibility is very much appreciated.


I was agreeing parents should be responsible, the example I gave of a child splashing another passenger by mistake- That is NOT an "excuse," it is an example of an minor accident. Not making excuses on my part.

Originally Posted by CowPrincess
The parents that would most need to read the "guidelines" would not, or if they did read them, would never ever think about enforcing the behaviour for little Johnny or Sally.

WOW!

I wish everyone happy cruising.

[CowPrincess]

Who's on first?


What's on second?

[Host Michell]

What's on second?

I don't know!

[casavaha]

We cruise over the Christmas Holidays every year. Lots of kids. Two
cruise lines Celebrity and HAL seem to keep them in control. Princess does
not. One Christmas on Princess, the kids got into the wine displays, got
drunk and ended up in crew areas. Completely took over the pool and
Jacuzzis, roamed the hallways in packs, knocking on doors. Stole a
womens scooter and ran the battery out. She was not able to get off the
ship.
The response from the officers, "what can we do?"

On Celebrity they give the parents a warning and then put them off the
ship at the next port. Boy does that get results.

Forget dealing with the parents. They will not listen. The ships officers
are the ones that have to solve the problem.

It becomes a matter of safety.

Many people tell me to cruise at a time when there are less kids. Why
should I change my likes for someone elses ill behavior.

Most kids are well behaved. When I see a family in the dining room or
elsewhere on the ship that have well behaved children, I go out of my
way to compliment them.

Greg

[pipedreams62]

I don't know!


He's on third


http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bobhope/images/vc118.jpg

[hammybee]

cf_chuck

To date HAL does allow families on their ships, why would someone who prefers Not to be around families choose HAL?

I cannot think of a cruise line that does not allow children, including the higher end ones.

There are however, many resorts that are adult only.

[KLLund]

I think some of the point is being missed here .. the original thread was in reaction to the reports of unruly children on the sailing of the Eurodam. Not all children and not all parents should be condemned for the actions of a few but it is noteworthy that the staff on board does not seem to be doing anything about this particular situation. I don't mind sailing with children and I realize that they are as excited as I am .. I just want to see someone in charge so that that excitement doesn't turn disruptive as seems to be the case on this particular sailing.

[Copper10-8]

We had a group of kids of various ages on the 3/10-day Eurodam cruise. They seem to have fun (ran into a group of about seven eight/nine-year olds one day who were getting ice cream in the Lido restaurant accompanied by two Club HAL councelors and we saw others involved in the always popular ship treasure hunt). We saw several others all having a good time so, IMHO, it is possible for kids and adults to coexist on dam ships.

The group of "runners" that the Rev is talking about is another story. I think it's disappointing that after observing that activity (running) on the first night in the Rembrandt dining room, that the dining room manager (or his assistants) didn't make a bee-line to the table where Mum and Dad (plural)were no doubt enjoying their meal to lay out the ground rules. Those tables should not have been hard to locate. The fact that this did not happen and that the running was allowed to continue there on concecutive nights ("hey, they didn't say anything to us the first time so it must not be a problem") is where HAL dropped the ball. It's obvious from what the Rev described, that Mum and Dad (plural) saw nothing wrong with the little darlings carrying on in the dining room so that's where somebody from the DR staff should have picked up the ball.

Why that didn't happen could be for the same reason why that same DR staff on different dam ships does not enforce the dress code for the night; they don't want to make waves and/or they don't enjoy the support of Seattle. It's too bad that someone in a position of authority didn't grow a pair and made it absolutely clear to everyone involved what is and what is not acceptable behavior. Not doing that no doubt ruined the ambience for certain folks in that otherwise very nice dining room.

[hammybee]

I know HAL has some kind of kid program but I question if the staff on HAL knows how to control a lot of kids. There are far more children on RCI (our fave line, look at the sig) and Princess but you never see the out of control behavior that the good Rev is talking about.

And we have been on the Freedom in the summer with 3800 + pax, many of whom are children. Kids all over the place and most were well behaved. And on a king-kong ship like that, lots for the kiddies to do and work off their energy.

I don't think most HAL ships have the facilities to keep energetic kids out of sight of the adult passengers. The kids are running around for lack of other stuff to do, such as this waterpark -

Not to mention the roller blading, ice skating rink, rock wall and extensive kid's programs which separates the kids from everybody else.

If we were to do a summer cruise again , never on HAL !

You have got to be kidding, right? The CC message boards for all but the most elite cruise lines, like Seaborn and Silver Sea, are chock full of unruly chidren stories. What the Rev is wittnessing is mild in comparison to how wild and crazy it can sometimes get. These message boards also have plenty of posts from parents who want to leave their kids onboard to do as they wish, while they get off and do as they wish.

All the gimicks in the world cannot compete with the freedom to do as you wish, when you wish, where you wish and with whom you wish.

I know of many families who cruise and view it as a vacation independent of parenting.The kids have the run of the ship. The kids are on their own almost 24/7 to do as they please and so often don't even sleep in the same cabin, let alone deck, as their parents.

Some parents do not want the responsibility of parenting while on vacation. The cruise lines are so often hesitent to step in unless there are serious and obvious safety concens, like setting fires which has indeed happened on both Princess and RCL. And most intriging of all, is if it gets bad as it occasionally does, that passengers do not confront the situation. And so nothing changes, if nothing changes.

I have been a long time proponent of some sort of cruise line family orientation on embarkation day. This could easily be done at check -in. Have parents read the rules and agree to abide by them or face the consequences.

The world is full of people who prefer to not vacation with other people's children. And no doubt, some of them will stare down a family just for being there. And so perhaps for them, cruising just about anywhere during school breaks on almost every cruise line is not the best choice of vacation.

[pipedreams62]

You have got to be kidding, right? The CC message boards for all but the most elite cruise lines, like Seaborn and Silver Sea, are chock full of unruly chidren stories. What the Rev is wittnessing is mild in comparison to how wild and crazy it can sometimes get. These message boards also have plenty of posts from parents who want to leave their kids onboard to do as they wish, while they get off and do as they wish.

All the gimicks in the world cannot compete with the freedom to do as you wish, when you wish, where you wish and with whom you wish.

I know of many families who cruise and view it as a vacation independent of parenting.The kids have the run of the ship. The kids are on their own almost 24/7 to do as they please and so often don't even sleep in the same cabin, let alone deck, as their parents.

Some parents do not want the responsibility of parenting while on vacation. The cruise lines are so often hesitent to step in unless there are serious and obvious safety concens, like setting fires which has indeed happened on both Princess and RCL. And most intriging of all, is if it gets bad as it occasionally does, that passengers do not confront the situation. And so nothing changes, if nothing changes.

I have been a long time proponent of some sort of cruise line family orientation on embarkation day. This could easily be done at check -in. Have parents read the rules and agree to abide by them or face the consequences.

The world is full of people who prefer to not vacation with other people's children. And no doubt, some of them will stare down a family just for being there. And so perhaps for them, cruising just about anywhere during school breaks on almost every cruise line is not the best choice of vacation.


I love your idea. How about as soon as you board,you are handed a glass of champagne(the chanpagne is the carrot, it can be the worst rot gut in the world) and required to go to a 10 minute orientation. Child behavior will be discusssed. You will be informed of the dress code policy,if you have a suitcase full of wife beaters you can run to the nearest clothing store and buy some clothes. You will also be informed that tipping is $10 a day period. Don't bother going down to the lobby the last day,to try to get them removed. Have them sign a waiver that they've been read their cruise ship rights . End of story.

[cruisecrasy]

I approached a parent once after his 10+ year old son jumped on me in the pool on a NCL cruise. I had watched that kid all week being so obnoxious around the pool doing cannonballs, etc. and his father just threw his hands up and said to me, "he's just a kid." My response was, "why don't you just try being a parent." There are so many well-behaved children and adults on the cruises, but there are always a few out-of-control at all ages. DH and I do not have children, so we never know quite how to respond to these situations, but that boy hurt me in the pool and I wasn't about to let him get away with it after observing his shenanigans throughout the cruise. Unfortunately, his parents let him get away with it.

We have not been on an Alaska cruise, so I can't comment on whether there are many kids on those kinds of cruises. I wouldn't worry about it, though, and just enjoy your wonderful cruise!

Just loved your rebuttal to the childs rather stupid parent..I mean please - 'just a kid' - sure but the kid can have respect & manners like an adult but only if the parent takes the time to teach them..
Have encountered such behaviour myself lately while cruising & a lot more than in the past - mores the pity.

That childs parents will likely reap the 'rewards' of their non-parenting later on - a spoiled, selfish young person with no regard for anything or anyone including themselves AND the parents..and guess what - those same parents will be asking - what did we do wrong? Oh how I hope someone then tells them, not that it will do much good 'cause if they won't now acknowledge that they contribute to the behavioral problem, they will still be too immature to admit their mistake later and will blame everyone and everything else instead!!!

I suggest anyone wishing to cruise without many kiddies, try to avoid school holiday times...leave the ships to the families then...Unfortunate but it seems those in authority will not deal with unruly kids & their parents for whatever reason ($ perhaps for the cruiseline) so its best just to try & avoid them..IMHO

Have happy cruisin' all!

[tip]

I don't dispute that the good reverend had some issues with kids and inappropriate behavior. However, "The One Who Must Be Obeyed" and I have taken sixteen cruises including several on HAL during school breaks and never have we found kids to be a problem (obnoxious adults could be a whole other thread)!

Some folks just don't like kids!

[PennyAgain]

Considering how many HAL cruises I've taken and over many decades, it is amazing that I've only had one situation with an out of control child being a problem. He was a young teenager who caused a lot of ruckus leading me to believe he may have had some serious emotional problems.

On other cruise lines however.....can't say the same as we've often had 'issues' with out of control children on RCL. Largely due to the large numbers of children on those ships.

HAL is generally a very peaceful cruise line.

[Rebecca33]

I just got back from a 12 day Zuiderdam with a lot of kids. We had no problems at all until the last day.

Me and another CC'r (Destinmom) were at the lido pool with our kids and there were about 10 kids between 9-12 running and screaming and throwing a ball around. They were pushing and shoving each other into the pool. The ball hit my son (4) in the head while he was sitting having lunch. It hit many other people too. These kids would not listen to anyone. We mentioned it to one the kids mothers that someone could get hurt and she told us to "knock it off, and mind our own business" . Finally a member of staff came and took the ball and told the kids to stop running.

This example is why many people feel badly about kids on Cruises... But in reality it is the parents who let it happen. It is a few that ruin it for the bunch.

These kids were not in the program when this was happening because they do not take the kids swimming in Club HAL. And when they are in Club HAL they do not let them run about the decks.

And honestly with 250 kids on that ship, the last day was the ONLY complaint I had about the kids.

Wendy:)

[lkmamom]

I totally agree with Hammy and pipedream. A parental "orientation" would be a great idea, seriously. Some parents have a very false security that once onboard it is a free for all. Definately not so. I also think that the cruise lines should back this up, totally as a safety issue for both other passengers and the kids themselves.

We wanted to try Cunard. Our tablemates for dinner were a very lovely family with two children one a very sweet and mature nine year old and one very active two year old who had no desires to be in the dining room. We love children (we have one :D ) but to let this totally bored two year old run between the legs of the servers and run from table to table made me more nervous for him and the servers than anything else every evening. Needless to say, it was anything but a relaxing dinner. I don't blame them. They were on vacation too and wanted to enjoy the dining experiance.After the first evening I would have either eaten in the Lido or hired a sitter if it meant that much to me. They did just that after about 3 nights. So you see, it can happen on any cruiseline.

This is an issue that really needs to be addressed on all of the cruiselines. I know Princess has tried to step up with their youth security. They cannot catch everything, but they walk around the ship and just watch. Since HAL is trying to establish a more "family" atmosphere onboard, maybe this will be something that they look at in the future particularly on the larger ships.

Once again, I think it all starts with the parents as most have said. If there is a statement made by the cruiseline, before the cruise even starts, everyone is on the same level hopefully. I think that this would be an excellent way to start a cruise. As a parent of a now young adult, we always set the rules before we even left the driveway of our home. True, if he broke the rules, one of us would suffer along with him (because he would be grounded in the room) but with all of our cruises this has never happened. I like to think that it is because from day one both his father and I have taught him to respect others. Funny, most of the time, he has always just joined in with DH and I. I know that I sometimes take personally some of the statements made on this board about kids. It is mainly because there are many parents like us, that do teach their kids the right things to do, and I really get offended when people group all kids. Conversly, some parents never do teach their children, and they have problems both on land and sea. DH and I are really hoping now, as we will very shortly be driving him away from home to college, he will always remember what we have taught him:D
Linda

[kryos]

I don't think most HAL ships have the facilities to keep energetic kids out of sight of the adult passengers. The kids are running around for lack of other stuff to do, such as this waterpark -

I've always said, I don't think HAL is the line for children. Personally, when compared to other lines like Disney, RCI and Carnival, I don't think HAL's children's program is much of anything. In fact, if I were a kid, I would think it was pretty lame.

I think HAL is great for the really young kids ... I think many of them would probably enjoy the offerings of the Children's program, especially the fact that it wouldn't be over-run with kids like those of the other lines, and they probably get lots of individual attention from the counselors on HAL. But for the older ones, like the teens ... I think they probably get bored silly sitting in that Oasis watching a waterfall or hanging out in the teen club. Just not enough to do ... not enough to let them burn off energy.

As much as I love HAL, if I had kids, especially older ones, I'd steer clear of HAL for any cruise where I was planning to bring them along.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[cf_chuck]

I love your idea. How about as soon as you board,you are handed a glass of champagne(the chanpagne is the carrot, it can be the worst rot gut in the world) and required to go to a 10 minute orientation. Child behavior will be discusssed. You will be informed of the dress code policy,if you have a suitcase full of wife beaters you can run to the nearest clothing store and buy some clothes. You will also be informed that tipping is $10 a day period. Don't bother going down to the lobby the last day,to try to get them removed. Have them sign a waiver that they've been read their cruise ship rights . End of story.


Make it mandatory. Expand the content to include what club HAL does and what the schedule of events for club HAL is. Then I'm with you.

[kryos]

I I don't blame them. They were on vacation too and wanted to enjoy the dining experiance.
I hate to say this, but that's just too bad. Surely they know what their two-year-old is like, and surely they must have known he wasn't gonna have no parts of an extended dining experience. So, they have a couple of options:

(1) They could leave him home with a trusted family member.
(2) They could bring along a trusted family member to babysit him in the evenings, take him to the Lido for dinner, etc.
(3) They could postpone their cruise until he is older.
(4) They could take turns eating in the dining room, while the other takes the baby to the Lido ... supplementing this with perhaps a babysitter from the ship on one or two nights so that they can feed the baby early and enjoy dinner together in the dining room.
or (5) They could accept the fact that adjustments are going to have to be made because of him, including foregoing the main dining room and eating in the Lido every night.

But they should not be permitting the child to crawl around on the floor, bothering other diners, and worst still, creating a safety hazard for both himself and the servers as they are rushing around trying to do their jobs, often laden with trays full of hot foot.

That should not be permitted and this "lovely couple" should have had more sense.

Just my humble opinion.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I don't dispute that the good reverend had some issues with kids and inappropriate behavior. However, "The One Who Must Be Obeyed" and I have taken sixteen cruises including several on HAL during school breaks and never have we found kids to be a problem (obnoxious adults could be a whole other thread)!

Some folks just don't like kids!
It's funny, but I was having just this exact conversation with Kakalina on the phone yesterday.

There is a difference between rowdy kids and misbehaving kids. Rowdy sometimes has to be put up with. Misbehaving, especially when it is creating a safety hazard, should not be.

Yes, many of us prefer not to sail with kids. I freely number myself among them. However, HAL has chosen to aggressively market to families and to welcome children onboard their ships. We know that. So, if we choose to continue to sail HAL ... especially during school vacation periods ... then we have to accept the fact that we will probably have to deal with kids ... and lots of them. Naturally, HAL cannot bring them onboard and then tell the parents your kid is not allowed to run around at the pool, not allowed to yell, not allowed to laugh loudly, not allowed to take part in age appropriate activities, etc., etc. That wouldn't be right ... not after the parent trusted HAL by parting with good money to bring their children onboard one of their ships.

So, like it or not, we have to accept that we are going to encounter kids just being kids, and that includes a louder volume level in the dining room, because kids will be kids. It also includes loud pool games, and gee ... maybe on occasion someone will get splashed or hit with a beachball, kids taking over the front row of the show lounge because maybe there is a magician that evening and they are hoping to get called on stage to be a part of his act, kids playing trivia with their parents, kids sometimes "playing" in the elevators ... and the list goes on and on. While these things are certainly annoying to us adults who do not have kids and who are disappointed to find a lot of kids on our cruise, that's basically too bad. We have to deal with it and frankly, I don't blame a parent's dirty look when we try to chastise her kid for running at the pool or talking too loudly in the dining room. If I had a kid, I'd probably give you a dirty look too.

But ... and this is the big BUT ... when children do things onboard ship that create any sort of a safety hazard ... for themselves, for other passengers or for the staff and crew, that's where HAL should draw the line. That positively should NOT be tolerated and Security staff should be very proactive in dealing with it. A warning to the kids for starters. Next time, you find the parents and talk to them. Problem continues and the parents get one final warning ... "off the ship at the next port if your kids are caught doing that again," and finally, yes, a follow through ... the kids are caught again, the whole family gets put off at the next port.

We all pay a lot of money for our cruises and we don't board the ship looking to have an accident that injures us. It is not fair for packs of children to be running at top speed through the Lido, perhaps knocking someone down ... someone who may be elderly and using mobility aids. It is not fair for young children to be crawling around on the dining room floor, making a nuisance of themselves to other passengers whose responsibility does not include watching out for them, not to mention a risk to the wait staff who really don't have the time to be looking out for them while they may have six tables full of passengers to serve.

These last two items are safety issues. There are plenty of others, like kids trying to climb the rails thinking it is "cool" to sit on the rail while the ship is moving. These are all things that should never be tolerated and it shouldn't be up to other passengers, like RevNeal, to have to deal with them. Ship's security should be on top of the matter and dealing very proactively with the parents of those children.

Now when it comes to "annoying" things like kids in the aft pool or in the spa, or kids enjoying loud games at the pool, or speaking loudly and laughing in the dining room, I say it's up to the ship's management how they want to deal with that, and personally, I have to admit that if I were in their position, I too would probably choose to ignore it. The kids are having fun, and really ... what's the harm? would be my attitude.

But safety issues are clearly an entirely different matter altogether.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

You have got to be kidding, right? The CC message boards for all but the most elite cruise lines, like Seaborn and Silver Sea, are chock full of unruly chidren stories.
Are you kidding? Even Seabourn and Silver Seas have had problems with kids, Regent as well. In fact, in some cases, their problems, when they occur on certain sailings, are even worse because those lines really don't have regular children's programs in place. Those kids come on the ship and then have nothing to do. They are bored stiff and if the parents are not inclined to keep them entertained all day, those kids can get into all kinds of mischief.

I recall reading about an incident a while back ... not sure which line it was on, but it was a relatively small luxury line ship, where the cruise line ran a special "kids sail for $99" promotion ... or some such thing ... and the ship was loaded with kids. They had brought some kid's counselors onboard for the sailing, but clearly there were not enough. The complaints from the passengers onboard were incredible. They eventually wound up getting a partial refund for the cruise because the experience they had paid for ... by booking a luxury line ... was clearly not what they got. They had to deal with packs of rowdy kids all week who were bored out of their minds on sea days on a cruise ship that really had absolutely nothing for them to do.

My question at the time was "why would any parent be stupid enough to bring their kid on such a cruise?" If you want to sail with your kids, then take them somewhere where they can have fun too ... like one of the mass market lines with all the bells and whistles for kids. Otherwise, leave the poor kids home. They'll have more fun that way, not to mention the parents having a better cruise.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

The fact that this did not happen and that the running was allowed to continue there on concecutive nights ("hey, they didn't say anything to us the first time so it must not be a problem") is where HAL dropped the ball. It's obvious from what the Rev described, that Mum and Dad (plural) saw nothing wrong with the little darlings carrying on in the dining room so that's where somebody from the DR staff should have picked up the ball.

Oh, they'll put a stop to it, I guarantee you, the first time someone is badly injured as a result of the kids running around the dining room ... or even when one of the kids is injured because a waiter maybe tripped over him, spilling bowls of hot soup all over his head. Then HAL will have a major law suit on their hands, probably filed by the parents of one of these lil darlings who perhaps was the one hurt ... and that yes, they will wind up settling out of court for big bucks because, to be honest, HAL will clearly be in the wrong and will know it ... and only then will some very strict rules be put into place.

Sadly, often that's what it takes. :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[cf_chuck]

I hate to say this, but that's just too bad. Surely they know what their two-year-old is like, and surely they must have known he wasn't gonna have no parts of an extended dining experience. So, they have a couple of options:

(1) They could leave him home with a trusted family member.
(2) They could bring along a trusted family member to babysit him in the evenings, take him to the Lido for dinner, etc.
(3) They could postpone their cruise until he is older.
(4) They could take turns eating in the dining room, while the other takes the baby to the Lido ... supplementing this with perhaps a babysitter from the ship on one or two nights so that they can feed the baby early and enjoy dinner together in the dining room.
or (5) They could accept the fact that adjustments are going to have to be made because of him, including foregoing the main dining room and eating in the Lido every night.

But they should not be permitting the child to crawl around on the floor, bothering other diners, and worst still, creating a safety hazard for both himself and the servers as they are rushing around trying to do their jobs, often laden with trays full of hot foot.

That should not be permitted and this "lovely couple" should have had more sense.

Just my humble opinion.

Blue skies ...

--rita

I don't hate it, and I think the message needs to be sent, apparently again and again.

I would add to your list of options ROOM SERVICE so that this "lovely couple" isn't responsible for constraining their little tyke from disrupting those around them or creating a potential safety problem.

As I see things, the dining experience aboard ship is NOT like a dining experience in a restaurant. The options for someone that is disturbed by the lack of consideration of another are much more limited. Threatening to leave without paying the check if the situation is not appropriately addressed just doesn't work. Being able to be reseated at another table is typically not practical. There isn't any reason other than simple selfishness that another adult would subject anyone to this experience, and the confines of a cruise amplifies this. IMO

[kryos]

I cannot think of a cruise line that does not allow children, including the higher end ones.

There are however, many resorts that are adult only.

Isn't Saga Rose adults only? I think there's a minimum age too ... like 55.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

We haven't been on any cruises with out of control kids. A very few times we've seen isolated poor behavior, but it hasn't been ongoing and it hasn't been more than one or two kids. We do not generally cruise short cruises nor do we usually cruise mid-summer or around Christmas.
I have to admit that neither have I. Oh, I've been on cruises with a lot of kids ... like a seven-day Zuiderdam cruise in August of 2004, but I can't honestly say that any of them were out-of-control. They were just there ... by the hundreds. :) And, that's what I didn't like about the cruise and why I won't sail in the summertime or during school vacations anymore. But, hey, that's just my personal dislike, probably because I don't have kids and don't feel comfortable around lots of them, so I am the one who has to work around it, not the parents with the kids.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Some cruise lines handle things when there are unruly kids. A couple of years ago on a Celebrity cruise to Hawaii, there was a family with really bad teen age boys. they were throwing lighted cigarettes down from their balcony to ours, terrorizing teenage girls, scratched up one of the elevators amongst other things. Captain put them off the ship in Hawaii. We were all relieved to see them go.
SueLOL ... well, hopefully the parents made lemonade out of the lemons and enjoyed a nice land stay on that island of Aloha. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Hale Bopp]

I have been following RevNeal's Live from the Eurodam thread with great interest. Could you post a link to this thread please? Thanks!

[norcal2]

I've been on a few cruises, never on HAL, but the only thing I have seen is a toddler crying in the DR which is understandable and parents usually handle it quickly for the baby's sake by taking them out for a minute or two. Crying children is difficult on land or sea if anyone is dining of course. I have seen a few children around pools being children and a little on the loud side. For that matter I've seen adults doing that too. I tend to leave that area if it is bothering me. I haven't seen out of control situations just situations I can't control. Kids are petty good on ships if you toss out the natural need to expel their energy.

We did pull into one port next to a Disney ship and when everyone disembarked the Disney ship the staff had all the kids at a top deck and they were running and laughing and having the loudest and most fun controlled by staff one can imagine. My first response from my quiet balcony was "Dear God, note to self: NEVER cruise on a Disney ship." My second thought was how precious they were when they were set free to get rid of that energy as the giggles and laughter filled the air. I ended up laughing with them as they scurried everywhere with adults encouraging them on the empty ship. I also thought the staff needed a big raise.

I think maybe adults have to be a little more understanding and encouraging and children must be allowed a time to release in controlled ways so that those who want to be away from chaos on their vacations do not conflict with parents who want a family get away. I don't know how it works on HAL but on NCL and Carnival it seems to work out depending on how adult the adults act. I agree with those who say that when children are completely out of control the staff MUST step in. Thankfully that seems to be more of a rarity than a norm...unless you are saying all the bad parents cruise HAL, and I am pretty sure no one is saying that.

Normal families with kids who are kids should probably not worry about this conversation. Most families have a great time on their cruises and the childless adults around them flock to them like magnets. Just try and go through the lobbies of any ship with an infant and try to avoid the adults ohhhh'ing and awe'ing at them. Can't be done. Those sly little hug magnets get all the attention. ;)

[margaritawoman]

My DH & I have been cruising for 20+ yrs. When we started cruising there were every few children on board. This was great for us. We had small children at the time, and this was a break away. We needed some couple time. When our children were in high school we cruised with them durning spring break. We had many conversations about how they were to behave on the cruise, as for as I know they behaved fine (as for as I know). I really don't know what they did when they were not with us, which was a large part of the cruise. I hope they were well behaved, I think they were well behaved but the botton line is I REALLY DON"T KNOW. I have worked around children most of my life (in schools) children most of the time follow the crowd. Most parents refuse to believe their little darlings would do anything wrong but they do. I have seen parents stand in front of a teacher and say my child would not do that. The teacher and I knew for a fact they had. I have had good friends who refuse to believe their children would do anything wrong and I know they have. We all want to think our children are the exception to the rule. We live in a world where most people will not take responsibility for the misbehavior of their children. Those of us who dislike this type of misbehavior need to complain to the cruise line at the time it happens, and write letters to the cruise line saying we will not cruise this line again if something is not done about unruly behavior. This type of behavior should not be acceptable. We must make our voices heard if we want it to stop. If we don't it will continue until it is no longer profitable for the cruise lines. We all know it is all about money. If they think they may loose our business they will do something about it.

[pipedreams62]

My guesses are (in no particular order):

Ignorance (I didnt know)
Irresponsibility (I'm the parent, mind your own business)
Selfishness (I wanna do what I wanna do and you can't stop me)
Stupidity (I knew but I didn't think it mattered)
Entitlement (I paid for this cruise, what's your problem?)

What's the survey say?

How about? They're Just plain "Clueless"

http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunstuff/cluelesslady1.jpg

[CowPrincess]

I really think that more than safety needs to be considered when determining what is and is not acceptable.

I started a thread on the "Family" board about a potentially vacation-ruining group that surrounded us. The folks over there provided me with some very helpful suggestions on what to do if it should ever occur again.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=744619&highlight=tantrum+suggestions

My dear friend with whom I was cruising is STILL scarred by the episode :) and will not sail that cruiseline again. Unfortunately, the family from h*ll is her clearest memory of an otherwise good cruise. DH wasn't even ON the cruise, and refuses to cruise that line because of what he's heard.

When someone else's ongoing bad behaviour affects my ability to enjoy myself (or even just relax), corrective action needs to be taken. And that reaches beyond safety issues.

[michmike]

We travel w/ another couple and generally schedule our cruises at times when kids will be in school and lately have been doing 10 day trips which helps as well.

Our method of control is to count up the number of kids on the first day and then divide that total by the number of days we will be on the ship (30 kids and a 10 day cruise means we have to deal with 3 per day) We start with the most obnoxious and disruptive and simply wait until no one is looking and then snatch them by the back of the neck and the seat of the pants and hoist them over the rail. BY limiting them to 3 a day it doesn't become real obvious. By mid cruise things have improved siginificantly and by the end all is peace and solitude.

Saves those tawdry confrontations w/airhead parents.

Would work as well w/ chair hogs but those folks tend to weigh quite a bit more and at 60 our backs aren't what they once were. (More's the pity..)

[margaritawoman]

What time of year do you travel and not find kids on board? We have cruised all seasons of the year. I work in the school system, people take their children out of school all year long to go on vacation. The answer to me is not to cruise when children are not around (I don't know when that is). We usually do 10 day cruises now. The last 10 day we did was in October a time you would think not too many kids on board. There were over 300 children on board. Most days we could not enjoy the pool for people putting their kids in diapers in the pool and hot tubs. I reported this to the cruise straff who did nothing. We were cruising with friends late one afternoon 6:00pm we had a bottle of champagne and decided to enjoy the hot tub before dinner. A young mother brought her 2 & 4yr old to sit in the hot tub with us. We pointed out children were not allowed in the hot tubs. Told us she didn't care and we could leave if we didn't like it. I did tell a deck hand he did nothing. This was on Princess. We are trying again on 10 day Noordam 10/18/08 I'll let you know if things are different.

[michmike]

we try to avoid spring break times and holidays, also you will find significantly fewer children on the r and s class ships on HAL as oposed to the vista class (Euro, Noor, Wester and Ooster dams) as HAL has made a conscious decision to market those to families and fares tend to be less than on the R and S class ships. We have 7 cruises now on HAL and have never had more than 40 kids onboard.

I WILL say this for Disney - We went on a 4 day last fall as our crusing friends' son was getting married onboard and we were DREADING it. Turned out not to be a problem as the Disney staff keeps the kids so busy you barely know they were around. There was much about the Disney experience that left us cold and other than perhaps taking our own grandkids (if and when) someday, there was nothing to entice us back (other than the specialty restaurant Palo).

OR.. you could get your back muscles in shape and come cruise w/ us and help us eradicate the problem. We're on Westerdam leaving 2/1/09.

[NetwrkEng]

We travel w/ another couple and generally schedule our cruises at times when kids will be in school and lately have been doing 10 day trips which helps as well.

Our method of control is to count up the number of kids on the first day and then divide that total by the number of days we will be on the ship (30 kids and a 10 day cruise means we have to deal with 3 per day) We start with the most obnoxious and disruptive and simply wait until no one is looking and then snatch them by the back of the neck and the seat of the pants and hoist them over the rail. BY limiting them to 3 a day it doesn't become real obvious. By mid cruise things have improved siginificantly and by the end all is peace and solitude.

Saves those tawdry confrontations w/airhead parents.

Would work as well w/ chair hogs but those folks tend to weigh quite a bit more and at 60 our backs aren't what they once were. (More's the pity..)

To funny, thanks I needed a chuckle. :D

[Travalerie]

My guesses are (in no particular order):

Ignorance (I didnt know)
Irresponsibility (I'm the parent, mind your own business)
Selfishness (I wanna do what I wanna do and you can't stop me)
Stupidity (I knew but I didn't think it mattered)
Entitlement (I paid for this cruise, what's your problem?)

What's the survey say?

When I was a kid, our vacations did not center around our needs, expectations, wants or desires. My dad is a MD and we went to wherever the conferences were that year. I have 3 siblings and we stayed in 4-5 star hotels that were obviously not kid friendly. We had to learn how to behave in a more sophisticated environment, eat in nicer restaurants and get creative with what we did for fun. Just because we were bored, and at times we were, we did not run around causing trouble! This notion of giving your kids stuff to do so they won't act up to me is a parenting escape. We knew the consequences of getting in trouble and stayed out of it. One time they did have a kids program that my sister and I did. My brother chose to babysit my little sister for $200 instead ;). He was in the room with her most of the day, but out of his "boredom" he starting fliming a video that we treasure today. He did all this editing and neat tricks and really created a family heirloom of our little sis when she was young. So I know I am in the minority here. I would be one of those parents who booked the luxury cruise. But my kids would have been with me, relaxed and well behaved. My kids are my responsibility and I don't feel like I need kids activity overload and babysitters to enjoy myself. Kids are so over stimulated these days, no wonder they can not just sit and be quiet-read a book, etc. So I am not sure which of those categories above you want to put me in. If I have to choose one, I would say-balanced.

[cf_chuck]

I'm not questioning the parents' right to take such a cruise. I'm questioning why they would bring the kids along only to let them be bored out of their minds.


I didn't take it as a question of rights. I was trying to give possible answers to your question. Have you ever seen the TV game show, "Family Feud"? Survey says. :)

[cf_chuck]

How about? They're Just plain "Clueless"



Good summation of what I posted. ;)

Net, net. I like that (there're are no "y"s in that). :D

[norcal2]

We travel w/ another couple and generally schedule our cruises at times when kids will be in school and lately have been doing 10 day trips which helps as well.

Our method of control is to count up the number of kids on the first day and then divide that total by the number of days we will be on the ship (30 kids and a 10 day cruise means we have to deal with 3 per day) We start with the most obnoxious and disruptive and simply wait until no one is looking and then snatch them by the back of the neck and the seat of the pants and hoist them over the rail. BY limiting them to 3 a day it doesn't become real obvious. By mid cruise things have improved siginificantly and by the end all is peace and solitude.

Saves those tawdry confrontations w/airhead parents.

Would work as well w/ chair hogs but those folks tend to weigh quite a bit more and at 60 our backs aren't what they once were. (More's the pity..)

ROFL! I never thought of doing the math, setting limitations on the numbers and tossing some overboard to keep the numbers correct. Too funny!

[hammybee]

Are you kidding? Even Seabourn and Silver Seas have had problems with kids, Regent as well. In fact, in some cases, their problems, when they occur on certain sailings, are even worse because those lines really don't have regular children's programs in place. Those kids come on the ship and then have nothing to do. They are bored stiff and if the parents are not inclined to keep them entertained all day, those kids can get into all kinds of mischief.

I recall reading about an incident a while back ... not sure which line it was on, but it was a relatively small luxury line ship, where the cruise line ran a special "kids sail for $99" promotion ... or some such thing ... and the ship was loaded with kids. They had brought some kid's counselors onboard for the sailing, but clearly there were not enough. The complaints from the passengers onboard were incredible. They eventually wound up getting a partial refund for the cruise because the experience they had paid for ... by booking a luxury line ... was clearly not what they got. They had to deal with packs of rowdy kids all week who were bored out of their minds on sea days on a cruise ship that really had absolutely nothing for them to do.

My question at the time was "why would any parent be stupid enough to bring their kid on such a cruise?" If you want to sail with your kids, then take them somewhere where they can have fun too ... like one of the mass market lines with all the bells and whistles for kids. Otherwise, leave the poor kids home. They'll have more fun that way, not to mention the parents having a better cruise.

Blue skies ...--rita


I think the $99 special to attract families was a Regent promotion and there were some threads during that period reporting the usual, jumping into the pool, splashing, running and late afternoon meltdowns.

This stuff is not unique to cruising and it happens just about anywhere there are children, including most resorts and my personal favorite, airplanes. Gotta love it when parents intentionally seat themselves away from their own kids.

There tends to be more children on cruise lines with the gimicks because they have more children onboard. And I know first hand that the programs and gimicks are often hard-pressed to comepte with having the run of the ship with new found friends and all the social dynamics that go along with this. If you are cruising on a ship with a majority of children, you know it.

While I certainly know that some parents view cruising as a vacation from parenting, I also know there are many people who prefer not to vacation with other people's children. And yet, somehow, they too often find themselves on the same ship or resort at the same time.

Come on now, if you choose to sail on a 7 day from a U.S. port during Spring Break, chances are there are going to be a lot of kids onboard and chances are a portion of them will view having the run of the ship far more attractive than any chidren's program or gimick and often parental supervision to participate.

I too have been blown away by the number of children on some port intensive European cruises, during the summer holidays, just as I have known parents who leave their kids onboard, while they do tours on shore.

As it relates to children's programs, kids can sign themselves into and out of programs on all cruise lines. The ages to do so varies from 7-9 years old, depending on cruise line.

HAL has had a children's program going back to at least the 1950's, decades before the other cruise lines were even formed. Children on HAL is not a new phenomina.

What has changed over the years, is that cruising is substantially more affordable to everyone, including families because of the economies of scale associated with larger ships and more of them.

If and when I develop a preference to not sail with children and risk that some of them are going to push the envelope, I will, as you have done, take responsibility for it and sail during school year, avoid school breaks and/or choose longer sails. In other words, I am going to control my experience by making an educated choice when to sail, or not and for how long.

[airlink diva]

I don't have children, but I do have a nephew and cousins with children.
I agree with someone else is that the Dining Room manager should talk to the parents that first night and explain to them that running in the dining room is something that's not allowed. I also will speak up myself because I know kids want to have fun, but in certain environments, you can't do certain things.
I know that some people are stating that HAL children program is not as strong as Disney,RCCL and Carnival. If the child don't like the program offered, it's then up to the parent to ensure that the child is monitor in proper fashion.
A few years ago, my family had their reunion on a cruiseship. One of my cousins, who was 14 at the time, got a little rowdy one day on the ship. Before getting on the ship, all the children in my family were given the rules that they had to follow while on board. Since he broke one of the rules, he had to hang with his grandmother and great aunt (both in their late and early 70's) all day. He was an angel after that.
Also, other cruisers have the right to complain if children are running around in the Lido, the hallways late at night or jamming up the elevators. Also, "he/she are just being kids" don't cut it.
I was on the Maasdam last April and there were quite a few children on board the ship. I never saw any bad behavior. On sea day you would see them out on the treasure hunt or in the Lido area hanging out. I know one night a small group came into the piano bar and they were told because it was after 10 p.m. they had to be with an adult. I passed by this small group later in the Lido sitting about chatting.
You can have children on a cruise where they can have fun, but need the parents to enforce limits. If a child is contantly causing problems,the cruiseline needs to step in and tell the parents to control the situation.

[Taxguy7]

On our cruise to Alaska earlier this month I actually had a man stop me after the first formal night and tell me how impressed he was with our 4 children (14,12, 10 and 7) He said that he had been on many cruises and mine were the best mannared he had seen! WE REALLY APPRECIATED THIS! Please don't always be negative. Tell parents and children when they are doing a good job also!

You would like my daughter. Her two boys are very well mannered in public even though they can be super active at home. It takes a lot of work to train and teach kids.:)

[NetwrkEng]

Perhaps the problem is not with the current parents but the previous ones. Which is why talking to the parent's is rarely "successful" in curbing the brats behavior. When was the last time you were in a store trying to check out and some "It's all about me" was busy talking on the cell phone while charging her $2.65 on the credit card?

And of course it has nothing to do with being on vacation it's just that on a cruise or at a resort you can't escape them.:cool:

[docksider21]

I have been a long time proponent of some sort of cruise line family orientation on embarkation day. This could easily be done at check -in. Have parents read the rules and agree to abide by them or face the consequences.



This orientation idea has possibilities. It could even by in the form a online video presentation,
so you can view before final payment and cancel if you think this won't work for you.
And it can emphasis safety concerns, not just etiquette.

There's parents/kids who don't need it; parents/kids it won't help,
But there's a whole spectrum in the middle --
some need correction,
some need only awareness of ship board life,
some would appreciate the heads up.

[kryos]

What time of year do you travel and not find kids on board? We have cruised all seasons of the year. I work in the school system, people take their children out of school all year long to go on vacation.
Very true. But the ship won't be overrun with them if it is not a school holiday. When they are not in the majority, they seem to behave better. But put 20 kids all together, among a total shipboard population of maybe 300 of them, and you very well can have problems.

Yes, I've had children even on a 30-day cruise ... but there were only two of them, adorable, very well behaved. One was the child of an officer, about 3 years old or so, and he and his mother were getting off in Hawaii. The other was a child a bit older, maybe around 5 or 6 who was traveling with his mom. He too wasn't a problem. On my Veendam cruise in April 2007, an 18-day TransAtlantic, we had maybe 20 kids onboard ... none of which were a problem that I could see. One family, with about six of them, sat not far from us in the dining room. Apparently the kids were all being homeschooled and the family were devout Christians. They held hands and prayed every evening before their meal. Those kids were very quiet, very mannerly and no problem at all. I'd rather be on the ship with those kinds of kids more so than some adults.

But put a big group of kids together and that's when you start having problems. That's when you get packs of them roaming the halls and engaging in various shennagins that can make your cruise experience a living hell. And, you only get those sorts of crowds generally during school vacations.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[mamma0233]

To the OP... we were on the Noordam to Alaska in Sept last year, AFTER the kids were back in school...and BTW most schools in our area (Northwest) don't finish until Late May to mid June. All we saw were a few adorable toddlers who we had a blast interacting with, my kids are too career oriented to give me "grands" which is fine! HA But I do enjoy the "little" ones. I go out of my way to compliment parents of good kids,,,I always appreciated it when mine were little (even though they had been fighting in the car on the way)

That being said, I was a campus supervisor for a high school of 1300 students for YEARS! I also volunteered in the Middle Schools, Junior Highs and Elementary level schools my kids attended. AND I have accompanied between 150 and 200 band members to Disneyland TWICE! Yes I am certifiably insane but I like teens! And I had a blast!

What I would advise you all to do is to "call" kids on their behavior! If they are over 12 they know what is expected...mine knew by 5 that their behavior dictated how long we would stay in a venue and we're talking church, ballet, symphony etc. If that doesn't work talk to the parents (you notice I did not say "confront" the parents!) Quite frankly you will do better talking to the kids if you do it in a caring manner! The parents have given up control

Part of the problem we have with our young folks is that too many older people are afraid of them (including their PARENTS)! It's nuts but true..they are young and finding their way...you can actually help with that if you do it in a non confrontational way!

And for all of you who HATE having any kids on a cruise, find one that doesn't! They are out there! They are real and they make major mistakes! They are kids...and I love em!:D

[RJ2002]

I totally agree with Hammy and pipedream. A parental "orientation" would be a great idea, seriously. Some parents have a very false security that once onboard it is a free for all. Definately not so. I also think that the cruise lines should back this up, totally as a safety issue for both other passengers and the kids themselves.

We wanted to try Cunard. Our tablemates for dinner were a very lovely family with two children one a very sweet and mature nine year old and one very active two year old who had no desires to be in the dining room. We love children (we have one :D ) but to let this totally bored two year old run between the legs of the servers and run from table to table made me more nervous for him and the servers than anything else every evening. Needless to say, it was anything but a relaxing dinner.
Linda

Not to stray this thread off topic, but the above comments (assigned tablemates with children) is the perfect example of why a LOT of folks appreciate AYWD.

[WaStateBG]

Hi Mamma, thanks for the info, much appreciated. And from a neighbor too!

[JLC@SD]

LOL ... well, hopefully the parents made lemonade out of the lemons and enjoyed a nice land stay on that island of Aloha. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita
my guess is they were the same terrors there as well.....:rolleyes:

.....hopefully.....their parents got the point that we do not want to put up with them......and it their responsibility to train their kids to behave.....;)

[sapper1]

Not to stray this thread off topic, but the above comments (assigned tablemates with children) is the perfect example of why a LOT of folks appreciate AYWD.
If you choose traditional dining, you can request a table with "no children" at the time you make your reservation. We have always done so and the request has been honoured. It is very difficult to have a "fine dining" experience regardless of how well behaved the two and three year olds are. Adult conversation is stilted, milk is spilled and food is dropped everywhere. That is fine at a family dinner but on a vacation that we have paid a lot of money for, we want an adult experience at dinner.
I know there are those who will say that children do not learn if they are not given the opportunity, but I do not go on vacation to be a part of providing a "grown up" opportunity for some stranger's child.

[silvercruiser]

When I opened my Yahoo! home page this morning I found this story to click open. It pretty well mirrors the experience of KidsWithNoBoundaries that's been discussed here. The reply says just what you've all been saying.

When Ill-Behaved Children Are Coddled
DEAR MARGO: I was visiting my family for a Friday night dinner at my mother's house -- brother, sisters, mother, nieces, nephews -- and we were all having a lovely evening. After dinner, we started an impromptu family photo session. One of my nieces, who had been disruptive, disrespectful and self-absorbed all weekend, intentionally interrupted a photo I was trying to take, so I said, "We'll have to do that one over because this one is acting like a jackass." Well, you'd have thought I called her a whore. Her mother and grandmother immediately clouded up, tempers flaring. I was berated and even threatened with "losing my family" for the comment. Their main point seemed to be that I was the adult and had to apologize to the 12-year-old for the comment. It was obvious all weekend that my niece is allowed to behave any way she likes without repercussions or consequences. My feeling is that I am the adult, but the child should have apologized to me for trying to interrupt something I was doing. My mother and sister are now not communicating with me -- although my mother does call my wife from time to time during the day to remind her of what a jerk I am. Am I crazy, or are they crazy?

--- FEELING UNFAIRLY TREATED
DEAR FEEL: The real problem is not that you called the kid a jackass, but that your mother and sister are misguidedly protective of a kid who has no boundaries. Rather than trying to shape her up so that she behaves properly -- and with respect for grownups -- they have communicated that she can do whatever she pleases and anyone who doesn't go along with that is the bad guy. My guess is that if you had called her "troublesome," or said anything about her disruptive behavior, you still would have been the villain. So, to answer your ultimate question: You are not crazy, they are.

--- MARGO, RIGOROUSLY

[aussiedisneyfan]

I am a parent of an 11 year girl and we are travelling on the Volendam at Xmas. I feel that I have brought her up to respect others and to behave appropriately for the setting that she is in. Please don't tar all children with the same brush.

If others saw her misbehaving I would welcome comments to me so I can deal with it and would not just ignore it. Hopefully she will never be the cause of any disruptions and when I have seen her misbehave she has been punished.

Anyway, I have a question, some mentioned early about kids club and tipping. I am sad to say that I hadn't tipped the staff on our previous cruises as I wasn't aware that it was a standard practice, and is not expected on the Aussie ships. What is a suggested amount? Do you tip as if you used the service every day of the cruise or just for the days your child was there.

[VillaHappy]

I would respectfully disagree. The kids are running around because their parents are not parenting.

I think it's a combo of both. A delicate balance, if you will.

The parents are entitled to some rest and relaxation on their vacation. However, some take this entitlement too far and look the other way when they really should be disciplining their children.

I would be horrified if my children were negatively impacting another person's vacation. If that were the case, they'd be immediately ushered to the cabin until they were ready to join society again.

I agree that as parents on a cruise, I don't want to be responsible for entertaining my children all of the time. That's why I love the Adventure Ocean program on RC. I'm not familiar with the kids program on HAL. Maybe HAL could take some notes from AO? The kids really love it, and beg to go to it every day!

[Greenwhite]

I really doubt you'll see that many kids on an Alaska cruise in May, before school is out.

Don't worry!

We did an "Inside Passage" cruise on the Zuiderdam last May. We didn't see a single kid during the entire cruise. I'm not saying that there weren't any children on the ship--just that we never saw of even heard any. We did see children in port :eek:, but then there were several ships in port at the same time. If you go before school is out, and if you avoid a cruise starting on the Memorial Day weekend, you will probably be kid free. :D

[hammybee]

Part of the problem we have with our young folks is that too many older people are afraid of them (including their PARENTS)! It's nuts but true..they are young and finding their way...you can actually help with that if you do it in a non confrontational way! :D

You said this better than I did. :)

[KKMKEM]

My DD has been on 12 cruises. The majority on Princess, but she loves the teenage program on HAL. We did a Christmas cruise last year and another one this year. I prefer Princess, but a happy teenager is worth sailing HAL. Also, the tip is part of the daily charge IMHO.

[22Vines]

My Son and Daughter will grow up with great memories of going on cruises with us. Our kids have been on several. My son is 14 and my daughter is 8. We are parents and they have learned to be respectful and responsible. They really enjoyed their HAL experience.


I might add that we were all kids at one time and would some be thinking the same way now if their parents had taken them on cruises when they were young? Would it be fond memories or anti-kid?


It all boils down to setting the example, appreciating what you get or had, and most of all tolerance.


Finally, I am sure we have all seen and heard some very obnoxious and out of control adults on cruises. For me kindness, forgiveness, and to enjoy the cruise rules the day!



Thanks

[Host Walt]

A number of inappropriate posts have been removed, This thread is now cloed.