Dissatisfaction with HAL

[Cruising Jake]

I have 15 cruises so far, 4 with HAL, the latest was the Oosterdam in January 2004. DH and I loved it, so when we decided to cruise again in November with DH's sister and her husband, we recommended HAL's Zuiderdam. After reading all the comments here about the Zuiderdam, I have become quite apprehensive. So I emailed HAL with some comments. The following is their answer. It does not adequately answer my concerns I thought, but I think it provides a forum for us. Each of us with a negative experience needs to write to HAL with a detailed description of that experience. I believe that with enough mail with explicit comments the situation should be improved OR then we write a second time and tell them that perhaps we will cruise someone else.

Their answer will be in a second message.

[Cruising Jake]

Holland America Line, Inc.


Dear Mrs. A...,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding your upcoming reservation on the ms Zuiderdam sailing November 27, 2004. Yes, there were some maintenance issues with regards to the sewage system as well as the AC onboard. These have been corrected onboard, and we have not had any reports since these corrections. Yes, there a general maintenance issues onboard most sailings and are fixed as soon as possible.

As far as the service and food onboard, most passengers have had rave reviews about the ms Zuiderdam saying "excellent, best they've had onboard", and the "staff are very friendly and attentive".

Yes, we are aware of the various message boards out there and do keep an eye of the messages. However, if passengers that have sailed with us and have had a problem with their sailing, they do need to contact Holland America directly regarding the situation so that we can be aware of their problem and hopefully correct what happened. We cannot help or improve the service or onboard amenities, if we are not notified of the passengers dissatisfaction.

Cruise lines operate by passenger satisfaction, and with the help of our passengers, both new and repeaters, suggestions or comments are always welcome. This is how we strive to improve our cruise line to be the best.

Holland America is also part of the World Leading Cruise Line, as is Carnival which is our parent company as well as Princess.

Please let us know if we can be of additional assistance to you. We are looking forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future.

Kind Regards,

Karen
Internet Department
Holland America Line, Inc.

[sail7seas]

I'm not sure I know what concerns you mentioned to them......so it is hard for me to know if they were addressed.


Probably would be a more complete picture if you had posted both letters.

Thanks for posting the response though. Interesting.

[hdawson]

May I suggest for anyone with a serious problem with any business, send a real business letter, in an envelope and stamped. Not email. If it's serious enough, it deserves the effort. Those letters will be logged in and forwarded to the appropriate department for action and/or comment.

[RevNeal]

Yes, we are aware of the various message boards out there and do keep an eye of the messages. However, if passengers that have sailed with us and have had a problem with their sailing, they do need to contact Holland America directly regarding the situation so that we can be aware of their problem and hopefully correct what happened. We cannot help or improve the service or onboard amenities, if we are not notified of the passengers dissatisfaction.

That's an amazing statement on several points. Firstly, Karen states that they are not only aware of the various message boards but that they, in fact, "do keep an eye of [sic] the messages." Frankly, we've been told by some of our fellow posters here that the Lines ignore these boards, or that they don't read them with any real interest; this despite the fact that sometimes action is taken on matters or problems or issues that are brought up here but not anywhere else.

Secondly, Karen is right in that they have to be informed of the problems before they can correct them. HOWEVER, this is a cop-out because they ARE informed of the problems, repeatedly, in both evaluation forms and letters of complaint, etc. And, if they "keep an eye" on these boards, then they've read the repeated reviews that assert poor service and mechanical problems (inclusive of AC) on the Zuiderdam (and on other ships, when they happen). In short, they ARE being informed. A Hotel Manager who claims he's never had the kind of complaints forwarded to him that Lois shared (for example) is either lying or is fooling himself. OF COURSE there are complaints and problems with the Zuiderdam ... the complaints posted on this board, alone, are enough to illustrate this fact beyond question. And, I'm CERTAIN they've received this word repeatedly in the past.

I'm getting angry as i write this; and that doesn't do me any good just 5 days out from boarding the Zaandam! :D

[dakrewser]

May I suggest for anyone with a serious problem with any business, send a real business letter, in an envelope and stamped. Not email. If it's serious enough, it deserves the effort. Those letters will be logged in and forwarded to the appropriate department for action and/or comment.
I've got to disagree with you on this. The transmission method (e.g., wouldn't a telegram be even more effective?) matters little. So long as an email is composed with sufficient detail and specificity (and abides by standard business rules of grammar) it can be as effective, if not more so, than a stamped envelope.

-dave

[RevNeal]

Dave,

I tend to agree ... though it really depends upon wether the intended party actually receives the E-mail. There was a time in the not-too-distant past that one would send an E-mail to HAL and NEVER get a response back. That may well have changed ... the last 3 times I've sent them E-mails I've received a timely response ... but it was just last year that, if you wanted to make sure that Kirk Lanterman (or, more likely, a member of his staff) actually got and read your mail, you sent it via the US Post.

[hdawson]

Nothing wrong with differing opinions. Emails are easily deleted or just ignored by customer service or resagents or sending an autoresponse. No body would want to get caught throwing real letters in the waste basket. Also, for myself, I would pay alot more attention to someone's comments that made the effort to write a real letter. I think a real letter has more impact. But then it's just my opinion.

[WindyCity]

I am going to disagree with everyone who said send it by snail mail. After our first cruise in May 2003, I sent a snail mail letter to HAL about our cabin steward (some complaints) and commending the dining room staff. Never got any type of response. Not even a form letter. Goes to show you that snail mail may not be the way to go.:rolleyes:

[garydm]

We returned earlier this month from a Crystal Cruise on Harmony. Had a great time and at dinner one night I mentioned to our head waiter about a post on the Crystal Cruise Critic board I had read that day while at an internet cafe in port that was critical of a situation experienced on that ship 10 days earlier. Although it was only posted a day earlier, he had already read it, knew of the situation, and discussed it with me. Now, that is being on top of things.

Gary

[Orcrone]

Instead of disagreeing about snail vs. email, why not both? Just print out the e-mail and send it to Seattle.

[RevNeal]

Marc, you are wise ... too wise!!!!!! :D

[hdawson]

Orcrone. What a simple solution. Why didn't we think of that? You're very wise.

[Orcrone]

Marc, you are wise ... too wise!!!!!! :DSometimes we analyze a problem a little too much.;)

[halos]

I have to agree to send letters BOTH ways.
I recently sent a (glowing...absolutely NO complaints) letter by e-mail and snail mail to Carnival about my Miracle cruise this past June and got responses from both very quickly. It can't hurt to cover your bases!!
Although they may have responded so efficiently and quickly because the letter was full of compliments.......

[Cruising Jake]

Maybe when you send your snail/email message you can ask why they seem to "read the boards" and then don't seem cognizant of any of the problems discussed.

This was part of my original email to HAL:

I have been reading www.cruisecritic.com for weeks. I realize that everyone has different opinions, but even if only a small percentage of posters are believable then HAL seems to have a large problem, especially on the Zuiderdam. It appears that the Zuiderdam, in particular, is smelly (sewage back up); hot (no A/C) and has poor service. It also appears that HAL, in general, has cut back on amenities (including suite amenities), has cut back on food offerings and offers poor substitutes, has fewer bartenders and servers and is losing first time HAL cruisers to name a few things. I wanted to tell you that HAL is getting a bad reputation from a select group of people. I don't know if you read any boards, but you might want to read this one. And perhaps help HAL by identifying how some perceived and/or real problems might be corrected and eliminated while still maintaining an eye on the bottom line. After all, happy repeat customers will recommend new customers.

[imsulin]

I hated my first cruise on the Zuiderdam in May of 2003 so much that I've booked it again for next April. Yes - I was in the lower dining room, and felt the vibrations - which were pretty easy to ignore while being served lobster and King Crab legs! I hated my over-sized inside cabin because I had too much room in it. I hated the fact that I could always find an aft pool lounge chair with an attentive crew member who offered me iced water/tea/lemonade throughout the day. I hated my cabin steward who actually put a clean pillow case each day on the feather pillow I brought with me, and cleaned and pressed the 10-year old worn-out pillow case that originally covered my feather pillow. He also behaved in a dastardly fashion when he insisted on bringing me coffee and juice each morning without asking! The devil! I also just could not stand the fact that I got crisp bacon when I asked for it and my request for iced-tea magically appeared at my dining room seat before I even got there! The nerve!! Honestly - I hated my first Zui cruise so much that it took some considerable arm-twisting to force me to book it again next year. I really hate HAL. I really do.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We have read all the pros & cons about the Zuiderdam along with the negatives and positives.

We sailed on the Oosterdam Feb/Mar 2004 and loved the ship.

The Zuiderdam is a sister ship.

We have booked future cruises on both the Westerdam and the Zuiderdam.

We love HAL and have faith in the cruise line.

[dakrewser]

We love HAL and have faith in the cruise line.
I can say the same about the Red Sox. Doesn't mean they also don't disappoint me....

:p -dave

[iluvcruzin]

I agree with Karen's response on making HAL aware of issues. I did however find that the majority of her text was generic e-mail from them. I remember reading almost the same wording word-for-word except the first paragraph on the sewer problem.

I think she's just responding like she's be instructed. It includes - acknowledging the problem, stating whether it's fixed, and the rest is generic without being negative (you won't find that in a response I'm sure).

[imsulin]

Same with my beloved Broncos, dakrewser! Four Super Bowl losses, followed by two b2b Super Bowl wins. (Rams? Vikings?) Works for me! As does HAL. Don't know why I'm such a HAL fan, as I've been on a number of cruise lines, as well as 10 years spent on a 30-PAX tall ship that went where no large ship could go...to places like Barbuda, Nevis, the Grenadines, Palm Island, Mayreau, and Mustique. Been there and done that, but my first HAL cruise hooked me on HAL. HAL suits me for my solo cruises. Proud to be a HAL Mariner!

[gliles]

I agree with Karen's response on making HAL aware of issues. I did however find that the majority of her text was generic e-mail from them. I remember reading almost the same wording word-for-word except the first paragraph on the sewer problem.

I think she's just responding like she's be instructed. It includes - acknowledging the problem, stating whether it's fixed, and the rest is generic without being negative (you won't find that in a response I'm sure).
If it is a generic response, someone at HDQ should proof read it to correct the grammatical errors.

[ekerr19]

Same with my beloved Broncos, dakrewser! Four Super Bowl losses, followed by two b2b Super Bowl wins. (Rams? Vikings?) Works for me! As does HAL. Don't know why I'm such a HAL fan, as I've been on a number of cruise lines, as well as 10 years spent on a 30-PAX tall ship that went where no large ship could go...to places like Barbuda, Nevis, the Grenadines, Palm Island, Mayreau, and Mustique. Been there and done that, but my first HAL cruise hooked me on HAL. HAL suits me for my solo cruises. Proud to be a HAL Mariner!
imsulin-

How about those Broncos this year??? We are crying... :(

[imsulin]

Yeah - about that 7-6 loss yesterday! And the call to run the ball instead of kicking a FG! Mike Shanahan needs to go on a HAL cruise! My youngest son (lives in Ft. Collins - CSU student) called me yesterday - crying just like you are!

[sandydownunder]

Our cruise on the Zuiderdam, May 1st this year was perfect. What a great ship.

[sail7seas]

imsulin-

How about those Broncos this year??? We are crying... :(


:D GO PATS!!!!


Go RED SOX!!!!

[sail7seas]

They read the Boards in Seattle.


They read the Boards aboard the ships.

I know this to be true.

[bepsf]

I hated my first cruise on the Zuiderdam in May of 2003 so much that I've booked it again for next April. Yes - I was in the lower dining room, and felt the vibrations - which were pretty easy to ignore while being served lobster and King Crab legs! I hated my over-sized inside cabin because I had too much room in it. I hated the fact that I could always find an aft pool lounge chair with an attentive crew member who offered me iced water/tea/lemonade throughout the day. I hated my cabin steward who actually put a clean pillow case each day on the feather pillow I brought with me, and cleaned and pressed the 10-year old worn-out pillow case that originally covered my feather pillow. He also behaved in a dastardly fashion when he insisted on bringing me coffee and juice each morning without asking! The devil! I also just could not stand the fact that I got crisp bacon when I asked for it and my request for iced-tea magically appeared at my dining room seat before I even got there! The nerve!! Honestly - I hated my first Zui cruise so much that it took some considerable arm-twisting to force me to book it again next year. I really hate HAL. I really do.

ROFL!!!!
Hey Imsulin - I hate HAL too...

[Starr Mtn]

[QUOTE=imsulin]Same with my beloved Broncos, dakrewser! Four Super Bowl losses, followed by two b2b Super Bowl wins. (Rams? Vikings?) Works for me! As does HAL.

Goodness! How could we do anything but agree with Imsulin!

[Lovebirds]

PEOPLE! Can't we stay on topic here? All this sports talk! How can we expect HAL to wade through all of the extraneous stuff and get to the heart of the problem?


BTW we love our Browns although for the life of me I can't remember why:mad:

ROTFL

[mhshapiro]

We returned earlier this month from a Crystal Cruise on Harmony. Had a great time and at dinner one night I mentioned to our head waiter about a post on the Crystal Cruise Critic board I had read that day while at an internet cafe in port that was critical of a situation experienced on that ship 10 days earlier. Although it was only posted a day earlier, he had already read it, knew of the situation, and discussed it with me. Now, that is being on top of things.

Gary

Crystal is noted for responding to problems very quickly. Once a problem is mentioned to a crewmember on a Crystal ship, it is that crewmember's responsibility to see to it that the problem is fixed. That doesn't mean that he or she must fix it, but rather that he or she must make sure that all the resources necessary are brought to bear on the problem.

[RevNeal]

Once a problem is mentioned to a crewmember on a Crystal ship, it is that crewmember's responsibility to see to it that the problem is fixed. That doesn't mean that he or she must fix it, but rather that he or she must make sure that all the resources necessary are brought to bear on the problem.

Wow ... so ... if go on a Crystal ship and mention my sexual dysfunction problem, they'll fix it ;) :D <evil grin>

[Orcrone]

Wow ... so ... if go on a Crystal ship and mention my sexual dysfunction problem, they'll fix it ;) :D <evil grin>You have to go to a higher authority for miracles.:p

[RevNeal]

You have to go to a higher authority for miracles.

The problem is that I'm trying to avoid that particular authority when it comes to that particular issue. :) Celebacy ... you know. :D

[Orcrone]

The problem is that I'm trying to avoid that particular authority when it comes to that particular issue. :) Celebacy ... you know. :DSeriously Greg, I know Catholic priests are supposed to remain celebate, but I did not realize the same is true of Methodist Ministers. Or is it not required and you're just stating that because you're single?

Hope I'm not getting too personal. If I am just flame me and otherwise ignore this post.:D

[pinksand]

Cruising Jake

I am on the 11/27 sailing with you. First cruise with Hal. I also sent an email about my concerns from reviews on this board. I received basically the same reply as you did. They were not aware of many of the problems people are reporting. Hope we have a better experience.

[RevNeal]

Seriously Greg, I know Catholic priests are supposed to remain celebate, but I did not realize the same is true of Methodist Ministers. Or is it not required and you're just stating that because you're single?

United Methodist clergy who are married are required to maintain "fidelity in marriage," while those who are single (like me) are required to remain "celibate in their singleness." This does not mean that United Methodist clergy who are single must remain single -- that would be "chastity," not "celibacy" -- it means that those UM clergy who remain single must not engage in sexual intercourse; when and if they marry, however, they must remain faithful within that marriage covenant. In short, celibacy is not chastity: UM clergy who are single are free to marry, but until and unless they do they must not engage in sexual intercourse.

[Lois R]

7....when you made the comment that you know for a fact Seattle reads these boards that got my attention.

Maybe they could read my review.....and just take a little heed from it. I am not asking for miracles....that is Greg's Dept:D .....

I know there are many HAL cruisers who, like loyalists on all cruiselines will stand by their "favorite line" and that is admirable.

I just really wonder if Seattle has any inkling of what is happening on the Zuiderdam.

[RevNeal]

. I am not asking for miracles....that is Greg's Dept :D.....

YIKES! :eek: LOL ... that's a very tall order, Lois! :D :eek:

[peaches from georgia]

I just really wonder if Seattle has any inkling of what is happening on the Zuiderdam.
Sure they do. They know exactly what is happening on the Zuiderdam and a lot more that the pax don't know, too. HAL is running a business and the Zuiderdam is being run like they want it to be with the resources they want to give it, don't fool yourself. :(

[Lois R]

Hi Peaches:) well, if that is true....and I have no reason to doubt you....I am just a ONETIME HAL cruiser......If they do know, I feel sorry for anyone else who would end up being treated as I was...single or attached....:(

[Lois R]

Greg:D ....you are closer to the "higher authority" than I am....LOL

[the2ofus]

Following our cruise on the Maasdam last November when we and our travelling companions had serious flooding problems in our LP deck cabins, I sent a detailed letter to HAL, mailed directly to Mr. Lanterman. I never received an acknowledgement nor any response at all from HAL regarding my letter.

[Lois R]

2ofus, I am sorry:( .....my encounter seems not so big when you compare it to having maintanence problems in a cabin...but I guess they are all big when they affect each of us in a different way.
So sorry to hear your cabin flooded:(

[Cruiseoften]

PEOPLE! Can't we stay on topic here? All this sports talk! How can we expect HAL to wade through all of the extraneous stuff and get to the heart of the problem?



Do hope you're not holding your breath waiting for this thread to get back on topic :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

Do hope you're not holding your breath waiting for this thread to get back on topic

Is there an actual topic here? I thought this was "free association." ;)

[imsulin]

Geez, Revneal! I feel your pain! Have you looked at the multitude of "celibacy belt" websites lately? Oh, my.................!

[RevNeal]

Geez, Revneal! I feel your pain! Have you looked at the multitude of "celibacy belt" websites lately? Oh, my.................!
FOFLMHO :D

Actually ... the belt is applied to the HIDE, not around the waist!!!! :eek: :cool: :rolleyes:

[imsulin]

I THINK I get the picture, but then again, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer! I pose for "still life" paintings, and have often been referred to as "that dumb apple/orange/pear"! You're a hoot, Rev!! (mea culpa)

[RevNeal]

I pose for "still life" paintings, and have often been referred to as "that dumb apple/orange/pear"!

Well ... while I may look like a pear, at least they don't draw me that way :D ;)

Thanks!

[sail7seas]

Following our cruise on the Maasdam last November when we and our travelling companions had serious flooding problems in our LP deck cabins, I sent a detailed letter to HAL, mailed directly to Mr. Lanterman. I never received an acknowledgement nor any response at all from HAL regarding my letter.
While I understand your disappointment that you did not receive a response, I cannot even imagine the amount of mail that arrives at 300 Elliot Avenue on a daily basis. It is probably next to impossible to respond to it all. Should everyone get a reply? Yes, of course. But, realisitically, I think we all know only Some will.

My DH has written to HAL about 4-5 times through the years. He has always gotten a response. Luck of the draw? Maybe :)

[It just occured to me that all of his letters were complimentary. :) That may be why he always got a response. :) ]

[FloridaGram]

I'll be interested to hear your review after your cruise, to see if you notice differences in the service. We took our first HAL cruise on the Z in May 2004, right after the tipping policy changed. Let's just say the service was the worst I have had in any of my previous 6 cruises. I will try another line the next time and may try HAL again if service is poor on a different line. I loved HMC and that made up for alot of other things. The bottom line is if you get lemons make lemonade, I don't wish to minimize anyones troubles, but focus on the positives not the negatives if you have some. Keep the happy memories, life is to short to dwell on the negative. We had some but I wouldn't trade the vacation for any other!

[sail7seas]

We cruised Zuiderdam four times last year. It will be interesting for us to compare those wonderful experiences to our upcoming Zuiderdam cruise. I shall post comments when we return.

[DFD1]

Maybe I'm an eccentric old fool, but I'm convinced the decline in service and personal attention, the smaller dining room staff, and the apparant change in attitude reported so often here lately is directly related to the new automatic tipping policy.

It makes sense that if you distribute more money to fewer employees and do so regardless of how they perform, that amounts to an unearned pay raise and the level of service will decline.

There was much back and forth about the merits of the new policy and "how the poor staff deserved this new advantage". I agree with that in theory, but I also expect the truth of the matter will be proven to be that the old system generated better service for the passengers.

Hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

[dakrewser]

Maybe I'm an eccentric old fool, but I'm convinced the decline in service and personal attention, the smaller dining room staff, and the apparant change in attitude reported so often here lately is directly related to the new automatic tipping policy.
Not sure how you can attribute "smaller dining room staff" to "the new automatic tipping policy"?

NOw if you want to attribute both to a new business model in Seattle, that I can go along with....

-dave