A little bit of revenge for the Oosterdam spring break ex-cruisers

[Orcrone]

Here's an idea. They should all get together and select a cruise that is still a long time away so that the ship is empty. Then they should book as many cabins as possible on the ship, starting with the penthouse and working their way down in price. Book directly with HAL as the prices are higher and we wouldn't want to make extra work for the TAs. Then two days before final payment is due everyone should inform HAL that they wish to cancel their cruise. Let them be stuck with a mainly empty ship with all the expensive rooms available 76 days before sailing.:eek:

Oh well, the PAX gave them plenty of notice.:D

I'll help you guys out.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Okay - let's do it!

How about one of those expensive segments on the world cruise?

[sail7seas]

Wouldn't they be investing a whole lot of money in multiple deposits when booking "as many cabins' as possible? HAL would have the use of alot of money for alot of months?!?!?

[Orcrone]

Wouldn't they be investing a whole lot of money in multiple deposits when booking "as many cabins' as possible? HAL would have the use of alot of money for alot of months?!?!?HAL would have use of the money, but it wouldn't cost the 'PAX' much money. At today's interest rates a person would not lose much interest on a $700 deposit, maybe $5.00. Of course if someone was carrying finance charge on the credit card, then it would add up. But if the credit card is paid in full each month, it's just the cost of not having the money sitting in a savings account at 1 or 2% interest.

[sail7seas]

Groan.....Unfortunately, you are correct, Orcrone. A wishful thinker here who is waiting for interest to go UP!!!!

[iluvcruzin]

It's a concept. The thing is, you'd have to do this for every cruiseline. It is very common for a "buy out" of a cruise. Celebrity has more than it's share and I've seen it on just about every cruiseline where a "special group" buys the ship out. Sometimes less than 6 months out. Compensation for the inconvience varies by cruiseline and sailing.

[Druke I]

Before entering into such a scheme, you may wish to check the legal definition of conspiracy.

[tbroido]

Those who say "the cruise line has the right" are correct. The problem lies in what sort of accommodation they make for the cancelled cruisers. There must be an economically sound reason for the cruise line to book out an entire ship that has say 200 or 400 cabins already booked. They have to go through logistical details and they risk their standing with those disgruntled ex-cruisers. So my feeling the financial windfall is very large. HAL, in my opinion, is not sharing enough of the pie with their disgruntled guests if all they are offering is what I have read here. Not by a long shot.


Now HAL may be willing to do more if their arms are twisted, but, again, that is short-sighted on their part. If they are willing to spend $X per cancelled guest to keep them happy if the guest complains loudly, then they should offer that up front. Good customer service that I have to wring out of a company is not good customer service it is me winning a battle. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth even if eventually satisfied. HAL is dropping the ball on this one if what I have read is correct.

I love Orcrone's idea, but the reasons it is impractical are obvious. OTOH, what if a large group of the disgruntled signed a petition and went public with one of the network news shows or tried to get on Montel or something. Big companies like HAL hate negative publicity. EVen the threat of doing it might get their attention. It is not libel or slander if you are telling the truth.

[Orcrone]

I love Orcrone's idea, but the reasons it is impractical are obvious. OTOH, what if a large group of the disgruntled signed a petition and went public with one of the network news shows or tried to get on Montel or something. Big companies like HAL hate negative publicity. EVen the threat of doing it might get their attention. It is not libel or slander if you are telling the truth.I like your idea. I would think that HAL legally covers their butt. However, looking at what people posted from the HAL webiste it includes cancelling a cruise for a number of reasons, all of which are beyond their control. I didn't see anything in the contract regarding cancelling a cruise for reasons within their control. If someone were so inclined I'd have to wonder if in additional to the negative publicity what they would say to class action lawsuit.

I may not be a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.:D

[want2travelbad]

Orcrone, you are awfully sweet to be trying to help out all of us spring break ex-cruisers, especially because the three of us affected by it, as reported on this Board, haven't even sailed with HAL before! Wow...I feel like family:) !

If I had the money I might help with this little project, but no way can I afford to book a bunch of cabins and have HAL hold up the money I do have. I am a working mom with a kid in private school, trying to renovate my 1903 home to boot. Ah, come to think about it, even if I had the money, I don't know if I could be that spiteful anyway. Especially because HAL just might come through for me in this mess.

In my previous rant post, about HAL's paultry offer of $50 pp shipboard credit I mentioned that my TA was countering. Well, she contacted me and told me that HAL would be willing to let us rebook on the "O" for an Alaskan cruise, same category, for no additional $. They would reimburse us our $300 airfare change fees, and still give us the $50 pp shipboard credit. We would have to absorb the additional $40 pp in port fees. She also said that we would most likely be upgraded from a BD to a BC or BB (maybe BD's aren't available?). This is more than I asked for. She was getting back to HAL to let them know that their offer was acceptable, and to find out more details about how the airfare fees would be dealt with (a shipboard credit is fine with me), and if they could accommodate us on the July 2nd sailing. Basically, we would not have any additional financial outlay as a result of the bump. Also, a cruise to Alaska costs a heck of a lot more than one to the Mexican Riviera, from a pax standpoint, so if this does pan out I will be a very happy camper indeed. I will submit a post once the details are final, so everyone knows how this turns out.

Once funny note, when my TA asked for some possible dates to travel this summer I initially gave her June 11, 18 and 25th as places to start. She contacted me and told me that all three of these sailings were chartered out. Hmmm...I am noticing a theme here!!

[tbroido]

My point is that they should have gone right to their better or best offer in the first place. OK, you got your TA to get tough with them but what about the people who feel abused by their cheap first offer and just say screw HAL and trash them to everyone they know who is considering a cruise. Like I said, short-sighted. There is a saying in business, "Everyone who loves you, tells their close friends, but everyone who hates you tells anyone who will listen."

[Orcrone]

want2travelbad,

I'm happy to hear that things are looking like they're going to work out for you. It's just too bad that your TA had to negotiate with HAL to get anything resembling a reasonable offer. I guess they figure that if people just accept their offer or cancel without reimbursement then they'll save money (and lose some customers).

It reminds me of one time when I was on a flight that was overbooked by 13 passengers. The next one wasn't leaving until the following morning. They first came on and announced that they would put people on another flight the next day, and pay for a voucher for dinner and the hotel, hoping someone would jump at that. No one did. They then offered a free round trip ticket. No one moved. They then said their final offer would be the free round trip ticket and a $75 voucher towards another ticket. Still no takers (remember, the next flight wasn't until the following day). Finally they gave their real final offer. Two free tickets. Eight people, myself included, took them up on it.

After deplaning I noticed that I was in row 2. Turns out they put us all in first class the next day. We all went to the hotel and met up at the bar, where we got to know each other. The next day was an ice storm and we were held on the taxiway for an hour. Normally this would not be much fun. But we all knew each other, we had lots of room as we were in first class, they were handing out drinks and food and the steward was hilarious. So pretty soon we were enjoying ourselves, eating, drinking and laughing up a storm. I could only imagine what the poor people in coach were thinking that day.

What does this have to do with your situation. I haven't a clue. Just decided to share the story. And maybe being bumped from the Oosterdam will be a blessing in disguise.

[shmabbies]

There are a lot of us who already have deposits on cruises for next year who are most interested in the outcome of this situation as well, because WHO KNOWS what awaits us? I think if HAL monitors these boards they should be aware that skimpy, pathetic offers in situations like this (and it sounds like there are a lot of them) aren't impressing any of us who cruise a lot but who have booked their first experience on HAL for next year. We've already tied up our deposit money and will be quick to retrieve it if we don't hear a lot of happy endings from passengers who were dumped.

[Krazy Kruizers]

want2cruisebad

Glad things are working out for you.

You will love Alaska.

[Krazy Kruizers]

shambbies

Orcrone also had this on another thread. And I mentioned there that this would not work out as HAL does monitor these boards and would know what we are all up to.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Boy I must be a "goody2shoes" ... I couldn't do this in a million years even if did have the money to tie up. Maybe I'd feel differently if it had been done to me, but probably not. It just seems like "dirty pool" to me and it's just not my style.:o

[dakrewser]

In my previous rant post, about HAL's paultry offer of $50 pp shipboard credit I mentioned that my TA was countering. Well, she contacted me and told me that HAL would be willing to let us rebook on the "O" for an Alaskan cruise, same category, for no additional $.
Yeah!
<Something about storm clouds and silver linings goes here>
<something about lemons and lemonade goes here>

Alaska, in July, is fantastic!

[dakrewser]

What does this have to do with your situation. I haven't a clue. Just decided to share the story. And maybe being bumped from the Oosterdam will be a blessing in disguise.
My best bump was a trip from Dallas to Austin (we lived in Austin for 10 years). It's a 1 hour flight and the bump only delayed me 90 minutes, but I got a $300 voucher for it! Ah, those were the days......

:) -dave

[Cerinda]

... the three of us affected by it, as reported on this Board, haven't even sailed with HAL before! Wow...I feel like family:) !

*****

In my previous rant post, about HAL's paultry offer of $50 pp shipboard credit I mentioned that my TA was countering. Well, she contacted me and told me that HAL would be willing to let us rebook on the "O" for an Alaskan cruise, same category, for no additional $. They would reimburse us our $300 airfare change fees, and still give us the $50 pp shipboard credit. We would have to absorb the additional $40 pp in port fees. She also said that we would most likely be upgraded from a BD to a BC or BB (maybe BD's aren't available?). This is more than I asked for. She was getting back to HAL to let them know that their offer was acceptable, and to find out more details about how the airfare fees would be dealt with (a shipboard credit is fine with me), and if they could accommodate us on the July 2nd sailing. Basically, we would not have any additional financial outlay as a result of the bump. ...


You guys, I'm practically in tears here... I've gotten the kids over their initial upset, but now I'm all distraught again.

Can anybody help? Please advise me...

My TA still doesn't have anything more than $50pp from HAL.

This is the second time I've used the agency in two years; they're a local bricks-and-mortar with a good reputation in town (though I have dealt with one REAL flake there). They claim to book more with HAL and RSSC than anyone else; they advertise frequent groups and specials with both lines.

Do I escalate in the agency? Try to get someone's ear at HAL?

My only other cruises have been on Radisson: this agency booked our first -- a really expensive, last-minute Alaska booking that had no issues or problems; a different agency booked our second, a cruise that TA called "the deal of the century" and a booking that required quite a number of changes and special requests that Radisson bent over backwards to accomodate.

I'm still a newbie, and I need advice!

Cerinda

[Ziggy7]

Who the heck charters these crusies ??? thats alot of ppl and money!

[digby]

Here's an idea. They should all get together and select a cruise that is still a long time away so that the ship is empty. Then they should book as many cabins as possible on the ship, starting with the penthouse and working their way down in price. Book directly with HAL as the prices are higher and we wouldn't want to make extra work for the TAs. Then two days before final payment is due everyone should inform HAL that they wish to cancel their cruise. Let them be stuck with a mainly empty ship with all the expensive rooms available 76 days before sailing.:eek:

Oh well, the PAX gave them plenty of notice.:D

I'll help you guys out.

What a mature idea! Sounds like something a 7th grader would come up with!

[sail7seas]

Who the heck charters these crusies ??? thats alot of ppl and money!
Major corporations sometimes use cruises as 'rewards' for their employees. Sell the most ...whatever their product is.....and get a cruise as a 'thank you'. Many large organizations, national and international groups, charter the ships and sell the cruises to members who qualify as part of their organization. I've heard of alumni groups chartering a ship for a cruise and can customize their itinerary. That sort of thing.....

[Esme]

Who the heck charters these crusies ??? thats alot of ppl and money!

Years ago, when my BRIL worked for IBM, they chartered a HAL ship for a cruise for top salespersons executives, etc.. Allstate charters HAL ships, usually for a month - 4 - 7 week cruises. I have no idea who gets to go on the Allstate cruises and I don't know if they still do it.

[iluvcruzin]

Who the heck charters these crusies ??? thats alot of ppl and money!Herbalife chartered the Carnival Valor for April 17th.

This TA company has chartered both Celebrity and Royal Carribean cruises
http://www.atlantisevents.com/ (http://www.atlantisevents.com/)

These sailings had bookings that were cancelled as a result.

[Cruiseoften]

Any and all branches of the medical profession run upgrading seminars on cruises - participants receive 'brownie points' for attendance - usually it's only about 2 hours per day. My Opthalmologist and my Podiotrist seem to participate in at least one such junket every year. The concerned associations can easily charter a ship, and fill it, for such affairs.

[Orcrone]

What a mature idea! Sounds like something a 7th grader would come up with!Sorry if my post doesn't meet with your approval. I wouldn't be at all upset if you chose to ignore all my future posts.:rolleyes:

[Orcrone]

You guys, I'm practically in tears here... I've gotten the kids over their initial upset, but now I'm all distraught again.

Can anybody help? Please advise me...

My TA still doesn't have anything more than $50pp from HAL.

This is the second time I've used the agency in two years; they're a local bricks-and-mortar with a good reputation in town (though I have dealt with one REAL flake there). They claim to book more with HAL and RSSC than anyone else; they advertise frequent groups and specials with both lines.

Do I escalate in the agency? Try to get someone's ear at HAL?

My only other cruises have been on Radisson: this agency booked our first -- a really expensive, last-minute Alaska booking that had no issues or problems; a different agency booked our second, a cruise that TA called "the deal of the century" and a booking that required quite a number of changes and special requests that Radisson bent over backwards to accomodate.

I'm still a newbie, and I need advice!

CerindaCerinda,

Why don't you print out the post from what2travel, bring it into your TA and ask her why he/she can't get a better deal, just as this other TA has.

[Orcrone]

Who the heck charters these crusies ??? thats alot of ppl and money!Often they're chartered my special interest groups. I know that gay and/or lesbian travel agencies will often charter a ship.

[shmabbies]

Hi Krazy Kruizers - I'm not quite sure what you're saying to me? I have had money on deposit for a 2005 HAL cruise for over a month, with final payment not due for many more months. My observation was that if I don't like some of what I hear about how HAL compensates people when they deliberately cancel a cruise, I may retrieve my deposit before final payment and go elsewhere, something that people do all the time for many reasons OTHER than this particular issue. What would HAL know "I've been up to?" I didn't book my cruise out of spite or anything and I'm free to cancel for whatever reason I want before final payment. If I decide how HAL treats passengers it bumps from cruises is a valid reason for ME to cancel....I'm just missing your point I think?? I could cancel because I decided I didn't like the itinerary after all, or I didn't like the room decor, or any of a million reasons. I'm just making the point that THIS particular issue i.e. how HAL handles passengers it dumps MIGHT be something that influences my decision whether to make that final payment or not make that final payment, and perhaps there may be others who feel the same way.

[Orcrone]

Hi Krazy Kruizers - I'm not quite sure what you're saying to me? I have had money on deposit for a 2005 HAL cruise for over a month, with final payment not due for many more months. My observation was that if I don't like some of what I hear about how HAL compensates people when they deliberately cancel a cruise, I may retrieve my deposit before final payment and go elsewhere, something that people do all the time for many reasons OTHER than this particular issue. What would HAL know "I've been up to?" I didn't book my cruise out of spite or anything and I'm free to cancel for whatever reason I want before final payment. If I decide how HAL treats passengers it bumps from cruises is a valid reason for ME to cancel....I'm just missing your point I think?? I could cancel because I decided I didn't like the itinerary after all, or I didn't like the room decor, or any of a million reasons. I'm just making the point that THIS particular issue i.e. how HAL handles passengers it dumps MIGHT be something that influences my decision whether to make that final payment or not make that final payment, and perhaps there may be others who feel the same way.Shmabbies,

I believe KK wasn't referring to you directly. She was saying that if we were to really decide to do this, that HAL would realize it as they monitor these boards. This would make the logistics pretty difficult.

Also, I wouldn't recommend you taking your business elsewhere. It is unlikely that your cruise will be cancelled and I have the feeling that what HAL has done here is not at all unique to the industry. So you may just find yourself on a cancelled cruise with somene else, while your HAL cruise sails as planned. It's just Murphy's law.

[shmabbies]

Hi Orcrone - Krazy Kruizers began that particular post with my name as the first word on it so I don't think I'm too off base by thinking it was directed at me! Unless there's another shmabbies!

Also, my point is not that I don't think it could happen elsewhere i.e. on another cruise line, because of course it could. My point IS that how HAL or any other line HANDLES the dumped people IS the issue. If those people end up being made whole or even come out a little (or a lot) ahead because of their inconvenience, disappointment, and aggravation, that's what I personally am looking for in a cruise line. The cancellation of cruises will continue, I'm sure, just as people get bumped from flights - but it's what the company does to make it up to the person that got the shaft that will make or break it for me. I guess I didn't make that point clear enough.

Speaking of involuntary bumping from aircraft - maybe if the cruise lines continue to do things like this there will be laws about compensation for bumped cruise passengers! Now there's something I'll bet the cruise industry would not like to see!

[want2travelbad]

Cerinda, I am so sorry your TA has not been able to negotiate something acceptable. The questions I have for you is what do you want and what has your TA asked for? If you could share some more information, that might be helpful for us to do some brainstorming with you.

I approached this simply with my TA by giving her two options that would be acceptable to me: 1) rebook another 7 day cruise at a time that is suitable for my family at the same cost for the same stateroom category I booked + reimburse my airfare change fees, or 2) reimburse the total cost of my airfare and I rebook elsewhere. My goal was to break even in my financial outlay, so I did not request any more than that from HAL. My family is switching gears and doing a noncruise vacation over spring break instead, and then shooting for the Alaska cruise when school is out.

If I recall, 3/19 is the only time you are willing to sail. If that is the case, I don't know if there is much that HAL could to to satisfy you, unless you are willing to allow them to rebook another time (summer, or Christmas, or next Spring break). I know you are limited based on kids school schedules, and I am in the same situation. Has your TA asked if you can cruise on another ship at another week in the future? If you could get that and your shipboard credit, you would come out ahead of me, since you haven't lost any money because of airfare, etc. As far as printing off my post to share with your TA to show what I received, as suggested by Orcrone, I can't stop you from that but would prefer that not occur, as my "deal" is not yet final, as far as I am concerned, until I hear back from my TA that we are booked on the "O" for the 7/2 Alaskan sailing. For that I am still waiting, but would be happy to post when things are wrapped up.

[Orcrone]

As far as printing off my post to share with your TA to show what I received, as suggested by Orcrone, I can't stop you from that but would prefer that not occur, as my "deal" is not yet final, as far as I am concerned, until I hear back from my TA that we are booked on the "O" for the 7/2 Alaskan sailing. For that I am still waiting, but would be happy to post when things are wrapped up.Sorry want2travelbad. I should have checked with you before giving that suggestion, or at least suggested it based upon your approval. I assumed that since it was on a public board you would not mind, but you know what they say about assuming.:o

[want2travelbad]

Believe me, no offense taken, Orcrone! I understand you are trying to help!:) Also, I understand this is a public forum, and anybody can do what they wish with my post. It's just a preference, and if not honored I would not hold a grudge. Most importantly, I am waiting to hear back from my TA that things are finalized and would not want it portrayed that I got what I have said HAL has offered until the deal is actually sealed.

[Cerinda]

Want2,

Strategy 1 makes a lot of sense. I'll press her to negotiate for another 7-day this summer; destination is immaterial. Then, if necessary, I'll insist on speaking with the agency principal, and go to strategy 2.

Would you please, please, please let me know what your TA arranges for you?

Thanks,
Cerinda

[want2travelbad]

Cerinda, I am now a confirmed passenger on the "O's" 7/2 Alaskan sailing. HAL put us in the exact same stateroom (it's a BD on the Verandah deck) we were going to be in on the Mexican one, and that is fine with me. We received a $50 pp shipboard credit, plus I will receive another $300 shipboard credit as soon as I fax my airfare change fee confirmation to my TA, and she in turn faxes it to HAL. We have to pay just about $40 pp in increased port fees/taxes. Basically, we are rebooked for a new itinerary at no cost to us, and get an extra $30 for our "pain and suffering". Ha ha!

I am satisified with my outcome. My TA insists HAL will WOW us into forgetting we were ever part of this mess, once we step foot on the ship. My family will embark on this trip with an open mind, and with every intention of having a wonderful time.

I truly hope your situation gets resolved to your satisfaction!

[Orcrone]

Congratulations want2travelbad. Persistance on your and your TA's part definitely paid off.

[Cerinda]

Our situation is still up in the air, but I'm much more optimistic. I'll let everyone know when the dust settles.

My TA went up the HAL chain again today. This time, she asked her HAL contact if she had read the CC HAL board lately.

Hal is offering a much different arrangement today than they offered LAST Friday. It's a generous one, and --if we can make the schedule changes work-- will go a long way to changing our first impression of the line's customer service.

Meanwhile, A THOUSAND THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO RESPONDED TO THE THREE THREADS ON THIS BOARD!!!!

Cerinda

[Orcrone]

Cerinda,

Glad things are looking up. Let us know the final resolution. I'm also wondering who chartered the ship. (I know it wasn't me).:D

[Sierrachik]

I'm also wondering who chartered the ship. (I know it wasn't me).:D
Gee, here I was thinking it was you who charter the ship for all the CC'ers just outta the kindness of your heart. I was startin' to pack and all, LOL! ;)

[Orcrone]

Gee, here I was thinking it was you who charter the ship for all the CC'ers just outta the kindness of your heart. I was startin' to pack and all, LOL! ;)If I were going to do that, do you think I would waste the time and effort on a 7 day cruise? Now the Prinsedam for a world cruise, that's a different story.:D

[Cerinda]

Everything's settled now. Our TA and HAL have done their cha cha cha.

The five of us will sail a 10-day Sea of Cortez/Mexican Riviera itinerary on the Ryndam departing San Diego March 16 (in place of the cancelled 7-day Mexican Riviera itinerary on the Oosterdam departing March 19). HAL is discounting it deeply enough that it costs us very little more than our original 7-day Oosterdam cruise; they are also extending a $200 shipboard credit to us. It is a generous, customer-focused offer.

It is the kind of offer one would expect a first-rate operation to offer its customers in the first place.

So now we turn to making lemonade: the three extra days cause all sorts of complications, but we're committed to making it work so we can have one last family vacation before the kids start heading off to college.

[dakrewser]

Everything's settled now. Our TA and HAL have done their cha cha cha.
Yeah! Looks like a win-win for everybody....

-dave