Consider The Source ?

[dewhit6959]

I have read and enjoyed many of the posts on this site. However, several recent posts have given me reason to question the information given in the post with regards to the intention of the posters. The information given is respected and valued, but it would also be appreciated if the poster made his background known. By that, are you a curious tourist, an experienced or new cruiser interested and researching your trip, or are you within the industry? The posts by those in the industry are valuable, but their employment should be stated up front to allow the casual reader to draw their own conclusions. I have not encountered many sales persons who were up front with the down side of their product or services, but those that did were appreciated. The financial industry requires disclosure to allow the buyer to temper the claims made, should travel chats require the same? I am interested in hearing from those in and out of the industry, on this.

[jazzsea]

I make no excuses for being a cruise consultant with 25 years in the business. I have also made it fairly clear that I used to be a serious fan of Holland America Line.

[gizmo]

The financial industry requires disclosure to allow the buyer to temper the claims made, should travel chats require the same? Give me a break! This is a chat site not a financial industry !!!


I don't think anyone should have to post if they are in the industry or not. If they choose to, fine. Jazzsea has posted, prior to the above post, she is in the industry. It was her choice. I don't see where the problem is. She is entitled to her views and opinions just like everyone else.

As far as experienced cruisers, curious tourists, or new cruisers go, and people in the industry, this is a chat site. We share information. It is up to the idividual reading the thread to come to their own conclusions about the information posted.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Agree with gizmo.

At one time or another, many of us have stated whether or not we are retired, how many cruises we have been on, etc. But since this is chat room for cruiers, we should't be made or have to state all our private affairs.

[JohnR49er]

I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. :D

[Orcrone]

I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. :D I have a similar motto to John's, except mine goes, I don't believe anything I hear, only half of what I see and none of what I say.:D

Seriously, OP had a valid point. Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Knowing the source of the info tends to validate it, however, caveat emptor. Is this post from someone who has often posted reliable information, or is it the posters third post? I don't believe that people should be required to leave all their vital info, however, these boards being the way they are, when someone posts without giving any info validating their statements, they will get flamed.:(

[tomc]

I am a radio news broadcaster and newspaper columnist with 46 years in the business. Now, as far as that meaning anything here, forget it. I have opinions same as anyone else and they are to be taken as such. When I return from my Oct 20-30 Rotterdarn NE/C cruise, the subject line will be "Here is an objective and unbiased review" and the first line will be a bunch of smilies. We're just a bunch of people hanging around the Lido over cups of coffee chatting about the cruise. Nobody should make their plans based solely on what they read here, although they might well take into account the well-thought comments. You usually can tell who thinks and who spouts.

Stay tuned for my objective and unbiased review.

[CaptData]

When I first started on this board I stated I had never cruised and was looking for info. I got tons. I looked at it all and when several different replies from different locations gave the same answer I went with that info. I also believe in the grain of salt.

Let's take food on cruise Line A has the best Beef Wellington, Line the the best buffet. Lince C gives you free Cappa what-ever. Ok I used it as a guide only not the "Be All And End All". Fodd is very personal. I also have problems with some foods so I asked if they had Sugar sweetener. The answer is yes from everybody.

No matter which cruise line I looked at everyone said bring a night light for inside cabins. It did not matter if the person had one cruise, was like Jazzsea and was in the industry, they all said it. I brought a night light.

I think most of us do take this board as an answer place and sometimes we are directed to contact the cruise line itself for a more personal answer.

Talking on Ports, this subject can get heated to as some people have had good service from company x while others bad. It is just what we experinced not what you may want but that is it. I do not recommend RCCL for disabled all the time but I explaine why. Yes, you can get around their new Voyager class ships easily but they state that they have lifts availible for the pool and hot tub (not in service accept when crew was playing with them when I was there).

The above is IMHO.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I do think that for some reason some of us put a little more stock in what is written here then, say, someone on the grocery line who we've never met. If that person turned around and told me that HAL was turning into a perfectly horrible cruiseline and I shouldn't cruise with them no matter what, then turned around and walked away, I somehow doubt I'd pay any attention.

I think it has to do with the printed word. I know I did this the other day when someone told me they loved a particular tour so I booked it. It will either prove out that I agree or I don't, but I didn't book it solely based on her recommendation.

The same should hold true for anything we read here. Some people "spout" a bit more than others. So some come off with a greater sense of expertise, but we don't really know this person and we certainly don't know if we'll see eye to eye on their views toward a cruise.

Personally, I've found that over time I do sort of "get to know" certain posters and know they see things more or less the way I do. So I'll put a little more stock in what they say over some others. But in the end, I'll go on my cruise and see for myself. There's no one you can trust more than that;) .

[uncialman]

With all kindess and humility, I realize that some of this post must be directed at me after others have erected a bit of a "straw-man" to attack and find hidden motives about on another thread.

I have always, in the two years that I have been on this board, made an effort to who I was, what I do, and what my personal pet peeves are. In the Meadows thread, there was an attempt on my part to inform the loyal HAL fans that changes are indeed coming to HAL as Meadows and the marketing team attempt to "re-brand" Holland America Line. These are facts: there is no "hidden agenda" behind anything that I have said or done outside of the fact that a Cruise Line that my wife and I just happen to call our favorite is being re-branded: those are facts.

I love the old Holland America and have personally cruised them as my wife and I have considered the HAL experience exactly what we, as personal consumers, wanted in a cruise vacation. While certainly there will be several aspects affected by the re-branding from Mr. Meadows, my first and foremost concern is that the my favorite line will be unrecognizable within a few years.

[777steve]

Perhaps the OP (or anyone else who feels the same need to validate the poster's background) could just...

ask.


Cheers:)

[Orcrone]

Uncialman,

I'm sure that the thread you referenced was the source of this thread. However, all the posts have been fairly generic, and the advice applies equally to all opinions stated in these threads, whether it's regarding comments from Meadows or a review of a particular ship.

[dewhit6959]

I will admit that my original post about disclosure could be misconstrued, but the point I was trying to make is to be able to clarify the information that is given BEFORE considering the source of the information. I did not mean that individuals should provide a bio or background check, just a mere mention that
a person or their spouse is a travel agent. I apologize for the" fine print type of statement".
There is nothing wrong with agents posting as I said before, but sometimes it takes several months of reading different posts to understand that someone has a view colored from a particular association. I made an unjust association of a TomC post several weeks ago concerning a matter before it was revealed that he is a radio personality and not a travel writer or reviewer. That put his remarks in the humorous context he had intended.
I wrote the post after reading a rather lengthy give and take about the future changes taking place in a cruise line as outlined in a post that only gave some type of reference to a hush hush "private meeting" as a source.
It was a sales meeting for agents. I don't think I was the only one wondering as several others questioned the source. I have read this board enough to gather who knows what they are talking about and who is reciting and was just trying to figure which heading some posters fall under. Sorry for the confusion.

[Host Walt]

From our Community Guidelines (http://www.cruisecritic.com/community/guide.cfm):


We recognize that while we have tons of great stuff in this forum, people sometimes post messages in our folders, upload articles to our libraries, or make statements in our chat rooms that are misleading, deceptive, or downright wrong. They may do this unintentionally or, sad to say, intentionally.

Treat the cruisers here the same way you'd treat anyone you'd met for the first time. This is important because anyone is allowed to participate in our community. You shouldn't make a cruise decision just because some stranger (or even an online friend) talks it up. Basically, you shouldn't treat cyberspace any differently than you would real life.

The fundamental concept is that you should NOT totally rely upon the information or opinions you read. Rather, you should use what you read here as starting points for doing independent research on cruise lines, ships, hotels, shore excursions and bargain-hunting techniques. Then judge for yourself the merits of the material that has been shared in our forum

[tomc]

I, for one, were not thinking of you or anyone else in particular. Just the kind of posts you see on boards where person/persons come on with really strong opinions and, when you actually step on board, you find they aren't so. Or, their taste isn't your taste.

People will say, "This shorex was rotten lousy," when they should have said, "This shorex did not meet my expectations because ..." Putting things in context helps a lot; I may agree with their reasoning or I may not. But "rotten lousy" does not help my judgement process.

As to the changes in HAL ... well, I'll be onboard in just a few days and will write a totally unbiased and completely objective :) review when I get back. Also, I am booked for a b2b next summer on the Maasdam and will do an equally TU & CO review (two smilies here).

After all, if I say something was "rotten lousy," you can accept it without knowing why. (three or more smilies here.)

[tomc]

dewhit6959

Thanks for coming back. I was afraid there would be no chance to clear up my post. Treat you to a cup of coffee in the Lido?

[xpcdoojk]

Some posters post in a particular forum because they want to cause trouble for the cruiseline that is discussed in that forum. These passive agressive types visit these forums to scare, intimidate, and try to cause havoc for reasons known only to them. Many regular posters in any given forum are there because they love the line or they have sailed it a lot and want to share experiences and advice. Many posters are trying to learn about the line in order to plan to maximize their vacation experience (I am in this category regarding HAL), and many of these people are new to these forums and are unaware of the first 2 categories of posters or into which category the regulars fall.

From a personal observation point of view the post saying that she used to be a serious fan of HAL makes my eyes roll, BTW.:rolleyes: Why continue to post in a forum in which a person, obviously, no longer values the product. :confused: What sense of satisfaction do you get from this? If I misjudged the statement and that my understanding is wrong, I apologize up front.

Another personal observation is those posters that feel that they are leading a mission to restructure a particular cruiseline into their own personalized view of the perfect cruiseline are doing themselves and others a disservice. The world is the way it is. Unless you have a large stock ownership in a private company you don't get to determine how a private business is operated. Wasting you energy on what could be or what used to be is wasting the readers time.

Despite these personal observations, everyone should feel free to post whatever they like however they like subject to the wishes of the owners/management of this site, and feel free to ignore my suggestions at your pleasure, lord knows my wife does.:D

jc <----- really looking forward to my trip next year on the Rotterdam

[uncialman]

Thanks for the clarification, dewhit6959, I really appreciate your motivation in trying to provide sources for information. I really wish I could go back to using my former name ( that the majority of you would recognize), but I really can't. Revneal has all the former correspondence that I had with HAL and I'm sure understands the circumstance.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Uncialman, please know that I was most certainly not referring to you in my post either. As I posted on the other thread, I found your input extremely informative and interesting. Some of the nastiest, and perhaps unwarranted, comments here are extremely brief so I don't think the length of any post has anything to do with whether or not it comes from true expertise.

[uncialman]

Hey Heather!

No worries! I'm sure reasonable people understand what my motivations are, and you are one of them. If folks have disagreements, I do appreciate honest discussion like bepsf and I had on the other thread (where we disagreed, but were able to civily discuss the issues) and not the "drive-by" assults and accusations with no substance that some posters seem to be fond of.

I appreciate you Heather! Happy Cruising!

[jhannah]

I don't feel a person's background is as important as is the reason for the opinion. For instance, "the shorex was rotten lousy" is probably an honest opinion of the poster ... but it doesn't help me much. That statement should be follwed, IMO, with the particulars that made it lousy in the poster's mind. That's the sort of information that is relevant ... more so than just whether or not the poster is in the industry.

[dakrewser]

There is nothing wrong with agents posting as I said before, but sometimes it takes several months of reading different posts to understand that someone has a view colored from a particular association.
I made an unjust association of a TomC post several weeks ago concerning a matter before it was revealed that he is a radio personality and not a travel writer or reviewer. That put his remarks in the humorous context he had intended.
Everyone's view is colored by particular associations. Like TomC, I'm paid to voice my opinions. Since what I do for a living is tell people what I think, participating on chat boards like this could be considered a "busman's holiday". I think it's great that I get paid to do what most people do for free (as the demoiselle said to the Madame), but I don't think I need to add a disclaimer to everything I post.

I'll read just about everything posted here. I'll trust the factual content in direct relation to how well I "know" the source. But in any event, I'll follow Ronald Reagan's dictum: trust, but verify. It's the same criteria I'd use for conversations started with strangers in the Ocean Bar, the Crow's Nest, the grocery store's check-out line, or my eMail inbox.

Caveat emptor, my friend.

:) -dave

[digby]

I think you ask too much! People shoud be free to post whatever they want as long as they are not violating CC's basic rules. An intelligent person should be able to tell whether a person has an 'agenda'!

[gliles]

There are people on these boards that I would trust information more from than some travel agents I have known in my 22 year career in the travel industry. If I ask "what should I do in Tortola?" I don't care who replies and what they do, they can tell me what is fun, interesting, etc. Doesn't matter if they are a TA, someone who has never been but read about Tortola, someone who has been there 50 times, doesn't matter, I want opinions and I know that is what I will get. If a TA replies but it turns out that said TA doesn't have any of the same interests as I do, then their opinion is useless to me.

[bepsf]

First off, Thank You Uncialman - I always enjoy and appreciate a spirited and thoughtful discussion with reasonable people.

Secondly, this is a great forum for trading helpful hints and reading people's varied opinions - but as others have stated, some many need to be taken w/ a grain of salt. Sometimes, one person's "Pate d'boeuf" is another's Meatloaf...
;)

I too am in the financial services industry. I review Advertising and Marketing for a mutual fund firm, so I'm accustomed to "fact checking", verifying sources and adding disclosures like ones that seem to apply here:

"Your Results may Vary. Past Performance is not an indicator of Future Results"

Cheers!

[OCruisers]

Like TomC, I'm paid to voice my opinions. Since what I do for a living is tell people what I think, participating on chat boards like this could be considered a "busman's holiday". :) -dave

TomC & dave .... No wonder I always enjoy both of your posts so much! :cool:

Understand very much! This board is FUN and I don't have be overly concerned about typos or those "ED pens"! :p It's a "busman's holiday" for me as well! (Funny, actually like offering opinions here as a "regular cruiser" ... BUT... at home our TA/others drive me crazy with their redundant questions and suggestion requests .... )

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[tomc]

"Past Performance is not an indicator of Future Results." Or, put differently, "History Is Not Destiny."

[The_Hall_Monitor]

“Consider the source” is an interesting concept but without any definition I really don’t know what it means.

Does it mean discount any advice from professionals, ie TAs?

Does it mean ignore posters who become confused and take issue with other posters, ie a recent poster who had never been on the Prinsendam who took violent issue with a poster who had just gotten off the ship because it did not fit her perceptions, or the poster who huffed and puffed about what she had heard over a year ago at a poster with inside HAL who updated her knowledge.

Does it mean the poster who believes his/her way is the only way, ie the battles over dress code.

What exactly does it mean?

It seems to me the initial poster was simply saying, “if you don’t agree, discount the information as the source must be bad.”

[HeatherInFlorida]

“Consider the source” is an interesting concept but without any definition I really don’t know what it means.

Does it mean discount any advice from professionals, ie TAs?

Does it mean ignore posters who become confused and take issue with other posters, ie a recent poster who had never been on the Prinsendam who took violent issue with a poster who had just gotten off the ship because it did not fit her perceptions, or the poster who huffed and puffed about what she had heard over a year ago at a poster with inside HAL who updated her knowledge.

Does it mean the poster who believes his/her way is the only way, ie the battles over dress code.

What exactly does it mean?

It seems to me the initial poster was simply saying, “if you don’t agree, discount the information as the source must be bad.”I'm sure someone will be happy to correct me if I'm wrong, but this was not my understanding of the original poster's thinking.

I read the post to mean exactly what it says: to "consider the source" as in "think carefully about, to form an opinion about, to take into account, to bear in mind, to look thoughtfully at" the source. I certainly didn't understand that thought to mean one should automatically "ignore" or "discount" anything that is said .....simply to "consider".