5 deaths on Noordam, Hal VP replies.

[billroddy]

As posted Dec 20 by a member.
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A friend of mine was on the 12/7 Noordam 10-day sailing and told me that 5 people passed away while on this cruise. How terribly sad for the friends and families traveling with the deceased!
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I emailed a vice president at HAL and received this response today Friday, 12/26.
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Bill,
I am advised that the information is incorrect. We will post something on cruise critic ourselves.
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Bill
Ancient Mariner

[Miata]

Glad to hear this wasn't the case. Who started this rumor?

[DizzyDallasDi]

Glad to hear this wasn't the case. Who started this rumor?

I was the OP in the "5 deaths on the 12/7 Noordam" thread. I was merely posting what my friend told me happened on her cruise. For what ever reason, she believed this to be the case. I am very happy to hear there were not that many deaths on her cruise.

Out of curiosity, why does it matter "who started this rumor?"

Diane

[norcal2]

I am pleased to hear this as frankly I was concerned when I read it was 5. Any amount is bad but higher numbers scare people I suspect. I only know it disturbed me and this is my first HAL cruise coming up. I know it shouldn't have bothered me but for some reason the high number did.

[Copper10-8]

A gent who happened to be a co-passenger with us on Oosterdam a while back posted in his review that passengers had died on that cruise. Turned out to be not true - some passengers had developped medical issues during/right after the lifeboat drill. Folks hear/see bits and pieces all the time and draw conclusions but it is not always the correct info. HAL has no reason to tell their passengers (unless next of kin) that passengers have passed away on a cruise. Why should/would they? Apart from next of kin, it's none of our business!

[InTheWASide]

A gent who happened to be a co-passenger with us on Oosterdam a while back posted in his review that passengers had died on that cruise. Turned out to be not true - some passengers had developped medical issues during/right after the lifeboat drill. Folks hear/see bits and pieces all the time and draw conclusions but it is not always the correct info. HAL has no reason to tell their passengers (unless next of kin) that passengers have passed away on a cruise. Why should/would they? Apart from next of kin, it's none of our business!

Amen Copper!

[RuthC]

Out of curiosity, why does it matter "who started this rumor?"
Agreed. I'm also not certain what it should matter if it were one, or ten deaths on any given cruise.

Unless there's a mass murderer aboard, the number of deaths, or medical emergencies, on any given cruise is out of HAL's hands. It's just a function of probability.
I can't believe that anyone would think it's enough our business that they would contact HAL to ask about it. :eek:

[Miata]

I was the OP in the "5 deaths on the 12/7 Noordam" thread. I was merely posting what my friend told me happened on her cruise. For what ever reason, she believed this to be the case. I am very happy to hear there were not that many deaths on her cruise.

Out of curiosity, why does it matter "who started this rumor?"

Diane

Inaccurate information of this nature may damage the reputation of HAL. Norcal2 gives a perfect example of how it did. My question was not intended to offend you.

As I’ve seen before, Copper10-8 seems to have the ability to clearly analyze a topic and come to a rational conclusion. I applaud his response.

[twinkletoes4445]

Inaccurate information of this nature may damage the reputation of HAL. Norcal2 gives a perfect example of how it did. My question was not intended to offend you.

As I’ve seen before, Copper10-8 seems to have the ability to clearly analyze a topic and come to a rational conclusion. I applaud his response.

IMO, I do not think that something like this would damage HAL's reputation since a large part of the cruisers on HAL (my experiences) were older, and one would expect them to have more health issues. I know we have more. And when I travel with my parents (who have a lot of heath issues), something happening to them is always in the back of my mind. And not that there aren't plenty of healthy elderly people, but when you get older, you just never know what's around the corner.

And when it comes to people going overboard (drunk-goofing around) these incidents tend to happen on the lines that cater to the younger people. And again, I am not saying this always happens this way, but when you get young people and booze together (and mix in a vacation), nothing surprises me. And incidents like this would not change my opinion of those particular cruise lines.

It's more about the demographics than anything.

HAL has an older customer base and I honestly didn't find the numbers of death per sailing too surprising. In fact, I'd think they'd be higher. If anything, I am more comfortable cruising HAL because they deal with a higher amount of health-related issues, and therefore are probably more able to handle these things.

The OP just posted what she "heard." So they didn't have 5 deaths on that sailing. That's good. However, I really wouldn't be a bit surprised if that number of deaths is reached or exceeded on a sailing. But it doesn't mean I'd not sail HAL or think anything negative about HAL.

My thoughts and sympathies lie with the person who passed away and their families.

[twinkletoes4445]

Agreed. I'm also not certain what it should matter if it were one, or ten deaths on any given cruise.

Unless there's a mass murderer aboard, the number of deaths, or medical emergencies, on any given cruise is out of HAL's hands. It's just a function of probability.
I can't believe that anyone would think it's enough our business that they would contact HAL to ask about it. :eek:

That's the truth!

[Typhoon1]

Malicious gossip.

[fireman845]

Out of curiosity, why does it matter "who started this rumor?"

Diane

Because they are spreading untruth's and hear-say and both are not good for any cruise line or cruise board and just comes down to gossip!

[MadManOfBethesda]

Because they are spreading untruth's and hear-say and both are not good for any cruise line or cruise board and just comes down to gossip!

Personally, I think that all of the posts and threads about disrepectful, mannerless, and pushy passengers, not to mention all of the complaints about loud and lousy music, would have much more of a detrimental impact on a cruise line than whether 1, 2, or 5 people died on a particular cruise.

[fireman845]

Personally, I think that all of the posts and threads about disrepectful, mannerless, and pushy passengers, not to mention all of the complaints about loud and lousy music, would have much more of a detrimental impact on a cruise line than whether 1, 2, or 5 people died on a particular cruise.

What about smoking vs non-smoking and tuxs vs jeans and a t-shirt?? I agree with you, IMO I am just not a fan of untruths and hear say gossip.

[twinkletoes4445]

Personally, I think that all of the posts and threads about disrepectful, mannerless, and pushy passengers, not to mention all of the complaints about loud and lousy music, would have much more of a detrimental impact on a cruise line than whether 1, 2, or 5 people died on a particular cruise.

I agree. I honestly can't see why anyone would think this subject would be harmful to a cruise line. And I don't think the OP was spreading untrtuth's or hearsay (this isn't a courtroom, it's a forum, where we ask questions).

I would be far more concerned if HAL said no one ever passed away on their cruises. If the death was a natural occurrence, and considering the demographics of HAL cruisers, you'd expect this to happen.

And you're right, if I read...

The food is horrible....The noise was awful...There was sewer smell in our cabin...There were kids running all over the ship....There were rude people on board...now those are the things that would make me think twice about cruising a particular line, and IMO, would harm their reputation.

HAL has no control over a natural death, but they would have control over these things. And as I get older and have more health problems, I'd rather sail on a line that has staff to support these problems, which I believe HAL does. On our last cruise, the average age was well into the 70's. It's about demographics. We don't live forever, but thankfully, we can live our lives to the fullest.

[twinkletoes4445]

What about smoking vs non-smoking and tuxs vs jeans and a t-shirt?? I agree with you, IMO I am just not a fan of untruths and hear say gossip.

It's about demographics. HAL's ships have older clientele. Statistically speaking, they're going to see more deaths. We don't live forever. Now the deaths that are mysterious (the ones where people go over the balconies, or just disappear), those are a different nature and those would concern me, but when the death is a natural one, I am just not following you on this.

[HALFans]

Shouldn't this have been tagged on to the end of the OP thread?

Why a new thread? There's not a new theme here, just more rehash and a one-line response from HAL that belongs on the original thread.

Just MHO...

[twinkletoes4445]

Shouldn't this have been tagged on to the end of the OP thread?

Why a new thread? There's not a new theme here, just more rehash and a one-line response from HAL that belongs on the original thread.

Just MHO...

I think the person that started this thread wanted us to know that he contacted HAL. Why, I am not sure. I honestly don't know why HAL would even divulge this information. Natural deaths occur everywhere, and it would have no impact on my decision process when picking a cruise line.

But you're right, if this belongs anywhere, it's on the original thread.

[Feresa]

I think the person that started this thread wanted us to know that he contacted HAL. Why, I am not sure. I honestly don't know why HAL would even divulge this information. Natural deaths occur everywhere, and it would have no impact on my decision process when picking a cruise line.

But you're right, if this belongs anywhere, it's on the original thread.

Isn't this the second new thread and the second time the OP has contacted HAL about this? Not sure why such intense interest in disproving the rumor. Where is the Rev's dead horse emoticon...?

[twinkletoes4445]

Isn't this the second new thread and the second time the OP has contacted HAL about this? Not sure why such intense interest in disproving the rumor. Where is the Rev's dead horse emoticon...?

I agree. When I first read the first post, I thought...how sad for those folks and their families. Nothing beyond that...other than knowing HAL would step up and make a difficult situation as easy as possible for those families in this situation.

[cccole]

I don't see anything wrong with HAL or any other cruise line having statistics readily available on deaths on board their ships. If someone who wants to cruise is concerned about the possibility, knowing that it is not out of the ordinary, might choose to take the cruise, even if it is the "eternal cruise" as Rev Neal has said. I don't think that announcements onboard are appropriate but being educated as to what happens if death does occur can be helpful to those cruising under difficult circumstances. This is just my opinion and the nice thing about CC is learning about what one can plan for and expect on a cruise. Cherie

[kryos]

I am pleased to hear this as frankly I was concerned when I read it was 5. Any amount is bad but higher numbers scare people I suspect. I only know it disturbed me and this is my first HAL cruise coming up. I know it shouldn't have bothered me but for some reason the high number did.I think the problem is that when people hear "bright star" pages, they assume it means a death. Bright star merely means a medical emergency, and probably in most cases the passenger does not die ... but rather either suffered some sort of physical problem (heart attack, seizure, whatever) that he recovers from, or even a fall with a broken hip or whatever ... nothing fatal.

I'd be willing to bet that in actuality very few "bright stars" actually result in death.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Copper10-8]

I think the problem is that when people hear "bright star" pages, they assume it means a death. Bright star merely means a medical emergency, and probably in most cases the passenger does not die ... but rather either suffered some sort of physical problem (heart attack, seizure, whatever) that he recovers from, or even a fall with a broken hip or whatever ... nothing fatal.

I'd be willing to bet that in actuality very few "bright stars" actually result in death.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Sorry Rita; 'Bright Star' signifies a life and death medical emergency and gets an designated response. You won't hear a 'Bright Star' and/or get the same response for a fall/broken hip/fractured arm, etc.

[sunnydaze]

I know for a fact that 5 people did pass away on this cruise.
It has nothing to do with cruising, and they were not elderly.
Altho it seems to be a high number, they all died from natural causes. People die everywhere, every day, in different circumstances - They also die on cruises - Almost every cruise has at least one fatality, and that is just life.
Cruiselines never admit these sort of things, as some people might want to blame the cruiseline, panic, or bad mouth cruising. Please don't try to make more out of this than what it is. This is exactly why they won't ever admit it.
Lots of other things go on that would shock you all that are hushed up,
but deaths are a reality.
My heart goes out to the familes.

[GS99]

I know for a fact that 5 people did pass away on this cruise. [snip]

With all due respect, I question the source of your "fact".

I was on the ship from November 27 through December 17th. During the second leg of the cruise I heard two "bright star" cabin alarms and personally witnessed two hearses attend the ship. [The ship was also attended by at least two ambulances during my time on board. The helicopter evacuation is well documented elsewhere.]

The hearses were discrete, but conspicuous.

I was speaking to a mid-level ship's officer and mentioned the seemingly high number of medical issues the ship had experienced. He agreed with my assessment that this ship had had a spike in medical issues but that the number and nature were within a reasonable range.

In later discussing the cruise with friends and family I have mentioned the number and nature of the medical problems and these people always are shocked. I suggested they draw a circle around a segment of 2000 people in our town and watch for 10 days and see the levels of issues that occur and they all then agree that the issues faced on Noordam during the cruise in question are not out of the realm of reason. Injury and death are a fact of life.

Again, I question the source of your "fact".

[manbehindthecurtain]

People dying= fact of life. As long as there are no unfounded conclusions drawn on the cause of the deaths, I don't see how it could be bad press for the cruise line.

Of course it's always sad for the family and friends, but I would sign up for buying the farm while on a cruise. I just hope it's at the end of it, and not on day one....:cool:

[bishop84]

On a previous cruise I was told the story of a "Brightstar" by an Officer. Apparently the alert went out for a Suite cabin and within minutes of the alert a guest actually went to the Front Office asking to be upgraded, for free, to the suite involved as quote "they won't need it anymore" :eek:

[ViolaSwamp]

On a previous cruise I was told the story of a "Brightstar" by an Officer. Apparently the alert went out for a Suite cabin and within minutes of the alert a guest actually went to the Front Office asking to be upgraded, for free, to the suite involved as quote "they won't need it anymore" :eek:

WOW, that is DISGUSTING behavior! :eek: I couldn't imagine being such a clod.

[Boytjie]

I was the OP in the "5 deaths on the 12/7 Noordam" thread. I was merely posting what my friend told me happened on her cruise. For what ever reason, she believed this to be the case. I am very happy to hear there were not that many deaths on her cruise.

Out of curiosity, why does it matter "who started this rumor?"

Diane

Why bother with rumors anyway? As is going on now about the woman that went overboard on the NCL Pearl. And remember how rumors and innuendo spread about the woman that went overboard on the Dawn? The boyfriend was found guilty in the media and the message boards - until video footage showed she tried to climb from one balcony to another.

What differences does it make whether 1 or 5 passengers died on a cruise? People die, its part fo life.

[shipcafe]

I notice a trend with this OP starting rumors to stir the pot ...

[Jade13]

WOW, that is DISGUSTING behavior! :eek: I couldn't imagine being such a clod.


Plus, if you knew someone just died in that bed would you really want to sleep in it...

[RevNeal]

Isn't this the second new thread and the second time the OP has contacted HAL about this? Not sure why such intense interest in disproving the rumor. Where is the Rev's dead horse emoticon...?

Ask and ye shall receive. :D

http://www.revneal.org/Resources/emoticons/beatdeadhorse.gif

[RevNeal]

I notice a trend with this OP starting rumors to stir the pot ...

Must be bored. :) Slow news day.

[Jade13]

Must be bored. :) Slow news day.

I'm looking at all these comments re the OP, and you know what, take a look at his profile. He is about/almost age 92 (if 86 in 2003 when he filed out the profile). I am totally impressed that Bill learned to use a computer and type at his age. Very impressed. I know those much younger (including my own father) who have no clue on how to turn on a computer, let alone type or send an e-mail :)

Bill has over the months also provided some agent inside info on some Sales as well..so I think we should give him a break.

[RevNeal]

I'm looking at all these comments re the OP, and you know what, take a look at his info. I am totally impressed that Bill learned to use a computer and type at his age. Very impressed. I know those much younger (including my own father) who have no clue on how to turn on a computer, let alone type or send an e-mail :)

Now now, there is no reason to attack someone due to age, etc. Play nice.

[Himself]

People do get sick on cruises and there have been deaths, natural deaths on cruises. Most often when deaths occur, it is from natural causes and frequently it is an older person. It is also not announced over the ship. So, how does one findout about it?
I very often go as the Catholic Chaplain and on those rare occassions when there is a death, I don't mention it to passengers. When I have known of a death, it isn't mentioned. Very often when a story gets going, it is heresay and not fact. FYI, the last death I was in on occurred in June of 2001.

[Copper10-8]

The bottom line: Unless Freddie the slasher is onboard having a ball, a cruise line, any cruise line, is under no obligation to inform us that one, five, nineteen, however many of our fellow passengers has/have passed away on a cruise we happen to be on. It is simply none of our business!