Tier-Structured Mariner Program

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

<<I posted this as a response on different thread but thought there might be broader interest in a discussion about this topic specifically so I am posting it as a new thread.>>

Should the Mariner program have a tier-structure to target the most loyal passengers?

For example, airline programs have tiers for elite members such as silver (30k miles in a year); gold (60k miles in a year); platinum (100k miles in a year).

My thinking is that there would be premium service for the upper HAL tier - whatever that is. 300 days, 400 days, 500 days? What percentage of passengers on average HAL sailings have 300 days or more? 10%, 20%? I have no idea. HAL would have to structure the program so they service the most loyal - it couldn't be designed for everyone.

It would be benneficial if top-level mariners had extra services such as a dedicated phone support line for a ship services "gold desk". No new reps on the line - only those with extensive experience and exceptional service skills. Perhaps this top tier could also receive an upgrade or additional credit onboard for a service of their choice. There could be a dedicated check-in lane at the pier. Their seapass could have a seal or color code recognizing them as top tier. Anything to make them feel special, welcome, and that their repeat business is important. These are just ideas to start a discussion.

We only have 8 HAL days under my belt...soon to be 16...so we are lightyears away from receiving any benefit like this. But we'd like to someday, should we be blessed with so many wonderful cruises like many others on the CC board. I just believe it is good business to reward true loyalty if and when possible.

Thanks for sharing any thoughts or comments you might have.

Pete:)

[JimVrhovac]

Interesting concept you propose...

In some ways it is already in place. Most of us at the top end tend to cruise in suites or mini suites and get a lot of those services already. When you cruise as much as we do it is almost like old home week when we get on the ship. On our last cruise the Captain chatted with us in the reception line and stopped it dead for almost five minutes. None of the officers got upset as we had cruised with most of them in the past.

Since we know a lot of the staff and the crews we tend to get that extra touch added to our services. We also go out of our way to meet new officers and crew when we travel.

Do we need any more perks - - NO - - It would not change our opinion or make us cruise any more. We are sure that a lot of others woud like the perks but question if it would make them cruise more.

Since HAL has started the Mariner lunches it amazes us how many ppeople do not show up or even show up to get their Medallions. It is the enjoyment of the cruise, the ship, and the searvice that keeps us coming back to HAL, not the perks.

It will be interesting to see how HAL handles this issue in the future....

We have noticed that they now have Events Managers on the ships. That was a position that was done away with a few years ago (when it was called Asst GUest Relations Manager).

We will be watching the responses

Ruth & Jim

[gizmo]

The only perk I would like is OBC. Suite pax already pay for many perks in their cruise fare. I think OBC is the fairest way to go.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I am also in favor of Ship Board Credit.

It could start as a small amount for those at the 100 day level, get a little bigger at the 200 day level, etc.

But -- we must also be able to combine it with AMEX PLat and Carnival ship board credit -- no restrictions.

[sail7seas]

I agree with those who say that the 'high number of day' Mariners already are recognized throughout our cruises and we receive nice courtesies. Because we have sailed so much, we know lots of officers and crew and they always see to it we are happy and comfortable. By we, I do not simply refer to myself and DH but to all 'high Mariners'. When someone is at 400 + days, that is a great deal of loyalty and it has been my experience it is recognized.

Also, as previously stated, those of us who sail in Suites have a different color Key Card, we have priority embarkation/disembarkation and tendering included in the higher fare we pay.

[jhannah]

Perks are nice. But just remember that they're not free. Each one has a cost of some sort that has to be recovered by the cruise line. Those who enjoy the Neptune Lounge and laundry services pay for that in their penthouse and S suite fares. But shipboard credits, free internet, free wine package, and other such bennies that might be given are paid for by all.

[Krazy Kruizers]

To be truthful -- we have a high number of days and I have never seen us being treated any differently than first-time cruises, etc.

It is a rare occassion when we have the same officers, i.e., captains, HM, etc., on ships that we have previously sailed on -- thus we have never really gotten to know any of them.

I guess that since we don't choose the same ship and do the same itinerary time after time, we don't get to know the crew and officers and therefore don't get that special recognition that a few here get.

[sail7seas]

Choices,,,,,,,,,,,,, it's all about choices. We each do on our vacations what suits us best. What works for one person may not work for another. Who is to say what another should choose? :)



And, yes, Jim. There is no 'free'. It all bears a price tag.

In view of the current economy and the need to keep the ships full and successful, I would not be looking for any big changes to Mariners Program soon. I think most of us understand this is not the best time to be handing out pricey OBC's and the like.

[SeaMatesNYC]

I, for one, am looking forward to my two free hours of internet coming up, after just two Cunard voyages, and 17 days. HAL seems the only Carnival brand without much in the way of perks. Some say HAL does not need this due to the past passenger rates. I am certain Cunard ranks very close. On the other hand, maybe that's why fares are higher?:eek: Does the lack of perks on HAL keep me from returning? No. Would I appreciate something more than a tile, pin and lunch (that I would have pretty much anyways, except a free glass of wine)? Yes.

[bishop84]

We have noticed that they now have Events Managers on the ships. That was a position that was done away with a few years ago (when it was called Asst GUest Relations Manager).
Ruth & Jim

Ruth & Jim, I think you mean the Guest Services Coordinator who was brought in when they stopped having the hostess? This was a short lived position.

This position was different to the Event Managers who do most of the organizing and managing of the Entertainment Department. Thereby allowing the Cruise Director to do more front-of-house events, entertainment and hosting, especially now they have reduced the number of Cruise/Event Staff.

[hammybee]

In view of the current economy and the need to keep the ships full and successful, I would not be looking for any big changes to Mariners Program soon. I think most of us understand this is not the best time to be handing out pricey OBC's and the like.


I agree with you, Sail. In this economy, people are going to the store that has Folgers on sail for $5.29 even though they used to shop elsewhere. Price is king.

As it relates to loyalty reward programs, I have long thought that use of # of days is not necessarily the best measure. There are many ways to rack up 100's of days:

Last minute fire sales for inside cabins on bread and butter runs
Specific Deluxe Suite Cabins booked well in advance
World and Grand Voyages which rarely need to deep discount

Which profile is the more loyal?

[sail7seas]

?? Maybe the guest always in an "S" with hundreds of days?

[Krazy Kruizers]

Specific Deluxe Suite Cabins booked well in advance


Which profile is the more loyal?

The majority of our cruises are booked anywhere from 1 year to 16 months in advance

and

we always book SA Delux suites.

Do I get extra points for that?:)

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

These are all good comments so far – thanks for sharing your ideas.

For the sake of this discussion, let’s make some hypothetical assumptions that will give us a baseline:

1. The base/”Mariner Silver” tier begins at 150 days and the top/”Mariner Gold” tier begins at 250 days.
2. Factor out suite privileges because not all passengers sail in suites.
3. We must assume you don’t personally know every crew member on every ship.

Perks are nice in tier-structured loyalty programs, but they’re only one part of a good program. Furthermore, not all loyalty benefits have a direct cost associated with them. The other and in my opinion more valuable aspect of a good loyalty program, is the ability for all staff to easily and quickly recognize the status of a passenger. So let’s explore this. Again, I’ll use the airline program as an example.

When I was a top tier/gold flyer, that status followed me through the entire flying experience. It appeared on my reservation record, boarding card, flight manifest, baggage records, etc. By making that status a part of the passenger record, every staff member could readily see they were dealing with one of their most loyal customers and they just made sure things were handled right the first time.

There is simply no reason this could not be true for HAL as well. Your status would be visible in your passenger record, on your sea pass itself (by color or symbol), and onboard every time it is scanned. This way all front line employees know the value of the passenger they are serving. Tier status could even print on onboard receipts. The same could be true for when you call the front desk and your stateroom number comes up on the screen - your status should appear as well. Dining room managers could have a list of Gold/Silver Mariners to make sure each was personally greeted at the table and thanked for their continuing patronage. Perhaps they could offer a complimentary beverage or some other small gesture to say “welcome back”.

Some other nice touches from the airline example...I received a beautiful, artistic Christmas card every year. I was once sent a dozen fresh cookies as a thank you for continuing business following 9/11. On occaision, the lead flight attendant would come through the cabin and personally thank each of the top tier flyers for their loyalty to the airline – this was a small gesture than meant something and it didn’t cost a dime.

Bottom line: people care about how they are treated and it’s often the little inexpensive things that matter most. All HAL passengers enjoy great service. But the most loyal passengers have earned some extra-special treatment and to make sure issues and requests are handled right the first time.

I’ll look forward to your continuing thoughts.

Pete:)

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

As it relates to loyalty reward programs, I have long thought that use of # of days is not necessarily the best measure. There are many ways to rack up 100's of days:

Last minute fire sales for inside cabins on bread and butter runs
Specific Deluxe Suite Cabins booked well in advance
World and Grand Voyages which rarely need to deep discount

Which profile is the more loyal?

If not number of days, then what? Do you have another idea. Total revenue perhaps? That might be harder to track.

Using the airline example - a one time flyer could buy a first class seat and edge out the 10-year gold flyer for the seat and better service. It happens sometimes but that's part of the business.

A one time passenger could book the PS and get better service than a 400 day mariner in an inside cabin. Unless of course there was a tier recognition system for that inside passenger.

Regarding the Mariner lunch and medals - I would confidently argue that that method of recognition does not appeal to all demographichs. I'm not saying it's doesn't work...but I am saying it doesn't work for everyone.

Pete

[lorekauf]

A one time passenger could book the PS and get better service than a 400 day mariner in an inside cabin. Unless of course there was a tier recognition system for that inside passenger.
Pete
Oh I'm pretty sure that already happens. That person would be bringing a big hit of money into the cruise line. Us folks in the cheap seats take a lot longer to bring those dollars to the table. Not everyone can afford such luxury and the cruise line could not afford to sail by just have the expensive seats filled.

[SeaMatesNYC]

The majority of our cruises are booked anywhere from 1 year to 16 months in advance

and

we always book SA Delux suites.

Do I get extra points for that?:)

On Princess, they have announced just such a program - double credits for full suites....

Details here:
http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na991

[lorekauf]

On Princess, they have announced just such a program - double credits for full suites....

Details here:
http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na991
I'm also happy to receive double points for booking single occupancy as well:).

[SeaMatesNYC]

I'm also happy to receive double points for booking single occupancy as well:).

Right on! As you should, since you are paying double! IMHO, Princess has it sorted quite nicely. Why all other Carnival brands don't follow this program is beyond me.

[kryos]

The majority of our cruises are booked anywhere from 1 year to 16 months in advance

and

we always book SA Delux suites.

Do I get extra points for that?:)I would say no. A mariner is a mariner is a mariner and the level of mariner you are should be based on your days sailed. Nothing more.

As for booking suites, you get certain perks associated with them now ... perks that others in more standard accommodations do not have access to.

Those perks are your reward for booking the higher level accommodations. Mariner benefits and perks should be entirely separate, in my humble opinion. That way there won't be overlap in bennies. After all, what would be the benefit to a passenger who booked a suite on a consistent basis if a high level Mariner (which she may also be) is getting the same perks? In effect, that suite passenger would be getting nothing for the additional dollars she was spending on the suite. Her Mariner perks would have given her the same thing.

Also, if points were given for the type of accommodations one sails in ... such as 1 point for standard and maybe 3 points for a suite ... then the person who sails in normal accommodations would virtually have no chance of earning any Mariner benefits. Let's say it takes 30 cruises to start seeing any real Mariner perks, and the suite passenger gets 3 points for every sailing, it is likely the person sailing in standard accommodations is going to pretty much give up in disgust. It will take them probably 20 to 30 years to see any real benefits (assuming they only sail once per year, some twice).

Yep, keep them separate. How many days you sail is how many days you've sailed ... regardless of what type of accommodation. And the perks offered to Mariners should be strictly OBC or meaningful future cruise discounts. Nothing more.

Save the other "perks" like unlimited laundry and dry cleaning, possibly a few hours of free internet, etc., for the suite passengers who pay for them with their hard earned cash.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[sail7seas]

These are all good comments so far – thanks for sharing your ideas.

For the sake of this discussion, let’s make some hypothetical assumptions that will give us a baseline:

1. The base/”Mariner Silver” tier begins at 150 days and the top/”Mariner Gold” tier begins at 250 days.




Why do you change what HAL has determined to be there award levels?

Copper Medallion is awarded at 100 days. Silver at 300 days and Gold at 500. Why do you rearrange their levels? :confused:

2. Factor out suite privileges because not all passengers sail in suites.


Why do you factor OUT suites. We pay a lot more money for those Suites. I think it definitely is a factor that whatever might be Mariner awards do not duplicate those amenties we pay for in our Suite fare. We would get nothing that other Mariners benefit because we have already bought that amenity in our Suite fare (those of us who have sailed a great many days in Suites) ...... And we will have paid for an amenity which becomes worth far less if more are entitled to it by virtue of days sailed. We 'buy' priority embarkation/disembarkation, we pay for priority tendering. Please do not simply dismiss this out of hand.

[SIZE=3]3. We must assume you don’t personally know every crew member on every ship.

[SIZE] How many will you assume we Do know? DH and I probably do know at least one Officer (perhaps more) and several crew members on every ship in the fleet. They move around from ship to ship. After a great many cruises/days, we are honored and happy we have made a number of friends in the fleet.



Pete:)[/quote]

[Krazy Kruizers]

On Princess, they have announced just such a program - double credits for full suites....

Details here:
http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na991

I know -- I read about that from a friend a couple of days ago.

And we are already Elite members on Princess.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

[/size][/font]

Why do you change what HAL has determined to be there award levels?

Copper Medallion is awarded at 100 days. Silver at 300 days and Gold at 500. Why do you rearrange their levels? :confused:

Why do you factor OUT suites. We pay a lot more money for those Suites. I think it definitely is a factor that whatever might be Mariner awards do not duplicate those amenties we pay for in our Suite fare. We would get nothing that other Mariners benefit because we have already bought that amenity in our Suite fare (those of us who have sailed a great many days in Suites) ...... And we will have paid for an amenity which becomes worth far less if more are entitled to it by virtue of days sailed. We 'buy' priority embarkation/disembarkation, we pay for priority tendering. Please do not simply dismiss this out of hand.


[SIZE=3] How many will you assume we Do know? DH and I probably do know at least one Officer (perhaps more) and several crew members on every ship in the fleet. They move around from ship to ship. After a great many cruises/days, we are honored and happy we have made a number of friends in the fleet.



[SIZE=3]Pete:)[/quote]

Sail:

I think you may be misinterpreting what I am suggesting. Let me try to be more clear (this would be easier in person :)). Please forgive me if I offended you in anyway. these assumptions were just for the sake of discussion.

Suite perks belong to suite passengers only. Period. I'm not suggesting anything different.

Regarding the levels - I'm not sugegsting changing the medals and levels. But hypotehtically speaking, if it takes me 20 years to hit a gold level of 250 days, I would then be 58 years old and could enjoy a few years of continuing gold benefit.

About knowing the staff - not everyone is as fortunate as you to know so many crew. A good tier system would help all crew identify the most loyal passengers.

I not arguing for anything to be taken away - quite the contrary. Does this help make my idea more clear for you?

Pete

[SeaMatesNYC]

I know -- I read about that from a friend a couple of days ago.

And we are already Elite members on Princess.

It does quite nicely address the question of more credit for booking higher end cabins, though, don't you think?

Curious what you think...does it make you grumble that inside "elites" would get some of the "suite" perks?

[sail7seas]

Sail:

I think you may be misinterpreting what I am suggesting. Let me try to be more clear (this would be easier in person :)). Please forgive me if I offended you in anyway. these assumptions were just for the sake of discussion.

Suite perks belong to suite passengers only. Period. I'm not suggesting anything different.

Regarding the levels - I'm not sugegsting changing the medals and levels. But hypotehtically speaking, if it takes me 20 years to hit a gold level of 250 days, I would then be 58 years old and could enjoy a few years of continuing gold benefit.

About knowing the staff - not everyone is as fortunate as you to know so many crew. A good tier system would help all crew identify the most loyal passengers.

I not arguing for anything to be taken away - quite the contrary. Does this help make my idea more clear for you?

Pete[/quote]

Pete,
What is the need to be hypothetical about specific number of days for each award level? They are established numbers?

I read and understand your message.
It is my opinion much of what you are proposing is already occuring on the ships.
They know how many sea days people have.

[Krazy Kruizers]

It does quite nicely address the question of more credit for booking higher end cabins, though, don't you think?

Curious what you think...does it make you grumble that inside "elites" would get some of the "suite" perks?

Not in the least!!

Things like that don't bother me.

[SeaMatesNYC]

Peter,

I get you completely. But there is something about the days=medals system (with really nothing to show for it) that is then somehow interwoven with the suite perks (and the threat to them should any of these bennies also start going to tier members as on Princess) that just gets all emotional.

It's really great that some know crew "personally" but that does not mean that the loyalty identifiers Peter is getting at are not valid, whether you have chosen to develop a "personal" relationship with the staff or not...some people just go on holiday to "get away from it all"...and are really just looking to have polite, efficient and quality service. I, for one, would be quite embarrassed to have the receiving line "held up" for a five minute chat with the Captain.

It is clear to me when your key card is gold or silver or diamond, etc. you will be immediately recognized on other lines. Not that those without get 'bad" service, just maybe not something above-and beyond. I have had staff on HAL tell me I should wear my pin for "better" service. But I am sorry, I may be in my bathing suit! And it is not jewelry I would wear to dine. As has been pointed out, the crew should know who the loyal passengers are, their cabins, their tables, and recognize them (by the key card) at point of service.

Just my thoughts...

[Krazy Kruizers]

They know how many sea days people have. [/quote]

Who on the ships know how many days you have?


Our cabin steward doesn't know, our dning room staff don't know, people in the Pinaccle don't know. The people in the Lido don't know how many days we have. No one at the bars don't know how many days we have. And many of our concierges never know how many days we have until just before the Mariner's lunch.

And I can bet that that is the same situation for 99.9% of HAL's passengers.

[SeaMatesNYC]

Who on the ships know how many days you have?

Exactly. Some may know if you have like 1,000 days and practically live on the ships...but the vast majority of passengers - they do not know. And I will not wear a pin! I don't need other passengers to know, but it would help if the account, and my card, showed my loyalty so the staff knew...

[sail7seas]

And I propose that in many (most ?) cases they do know who the very high Mariners are.

I cannot confirm, of course, that every person with lots of days is receiving benefit of 'recognition' but I suspect that is probably the goal though perhaps not always achieved.

[sail7seas]

They know how many sea days people have.

Who on the ships know how many days you have?


Our cabin steward doesn't know, our dning room staff don't know, people in the Pinaccle don't know. The people in the Lido don't know how many days we have. No one at the bars don't know how many days we have. And many of our concierges never know how many days we have until just before the Mariner's lunch.

And I can bet that that is the same situation for 99.9% of HAL's passengers.[/quote]


How do you know that to be true?

Has someone actually told you no one on the ship knows who has lots of days?


SeaMates,

I assure you people with manners know better than to have a five minute chat with the Captain in a receiving line.

'Good evening, Captain. Nice to see you' suffices. Private chats are reserved for more appropriate times.

[Krazy Kruizers]

And I propose that in many (most ?) cases they do know who the very high Mariners are.

I cannot confirm, of course, that every person with lots of days is receiving benefit of 'recognition' but I suspect that is probably the goal though perhaps not always achieved.


Sorry -- I infact know that crew do not know how many days we have or others have.

Many times we have been asked if this is our first cruise.

When we attended 2 Mariner's awards ceramonies on different ships, and our names were called out along with the days we had, both captains commented that they didn't know we had that many days.

The crew and staff do not have time to check lists and know who the high day count Mariner's are.

[Krazy Kruizers]

How do you know that to be true?

Has someone actually told you no one on the ship knows who has lots of days?


[/quote]

The crew and staff are only given lists of passengers -- not days!!

Many times in the bar and elsewhere on the ship we have been asked if we are first time cruisers OR if this is our first HAL cruise.

[sail7seas]

Hmmm....... ?

Odd

[SeaMatesNYC]

I have been told for certain by service staff that nothing on your card gives any indication. Hence the request to "wear the pin".

Agreed, the "five minute" example was an exaggeration and certainly bad manners, but it has been known to happen...someone wears their big hunkin' medalion and feels entitled...just sayin'...

My point is, let's not confuse personal relationships with staff with a discussion of loyalty recognition that has nothing to do with whether you are remembered by face or name. I don't see why a personal bond need be involved. It is nice when it happens as I have had staff recognize me, a year later, but that is likely owing to the multiple trips up to the pool bar!:D

Now that I think of it, they should track on-board revenue in addition to days! They may at corporate, but don't even try to tell me the ships' crew know!

[sail7seas]

Lots of assumptions and suppositions.

Many of our conversations with officers started because they recognized we are frequent cruisers. Whether or not we became 'friends' or not started only because of the frequency of our cruising with HAL. Crew often goes from one ship to another and they have a wonderful facility for remembering and recognizing.

It is, afterall, the hospitality business.

Your key card does not indicate anything other than suite or non-suite guest.

[CowPrincess]

My thinking is that there would be premium service for the upper HAL tier - whatever that is. 300 days, 400 days, 500 days? What percentage of passengers on average HAL sailings have 300 days or more? 10%, 20%? I have no idea. HAL would have to structure the program so they service the most loyal - it couldn't be designed for everyone.

It would be benneficial if top-level mariners had extra services such as a dedicated phone support line for a ship services "gold desk". No new reps on the line - only those with extensive experience and exceptional service skills.

To me, this seems like "classism". Reserving the "best" service for long-time cruisers means that the other cruisers will receive "not best" service. Perhaps HAL should be rewarding and encouraging new cruisers with the best service available, instead of making them feel like they aren't as important as people who've travelled HAL a lot. Maybe that "newbie" has 200 days on RCCL, and is looking for a new "cruise home".

IMHO, if a business wants to reward long-time customers, it needs to be done discreetly. Perhaps an onboard credit, or meaningful discounts on future cruises. Something that is between HAL, the cruisers, and their credit card company, that no one else needs to know about.

[sail7seas]

To me, this seems like "classism". Reserving the "best" service for long-time cruisers means that the other cruisers will receive "not best" service. Perhaps HAL should be rewarding and encouraging new cruisers with the best service available, instead of making them feel like they aren't as important as people who've travelled HAL a lot. Maybe that "newbie" has 200 days on RCCL, and is looking for a new "cruise home".

IMHO, if a business wants to reward long-time customers, it needs to be done discreetly. Perhaps an onboard credit, or meaningful discounts on future cruises. Something that is between HAL, the cruisers, and their credit card company, that no one else needs to know about.

Cow Princess. You are exactly right and as far as I know, every crew person does their very best for every HAL guest.

Any recognition of the frequent cruiser is the same as in any business. Your favorite restaurant recognizes you when you come in. The folks in your hair salon know you. The Officers/crew on the ships know their frequent guests.

I have never met a crew person who did anything but their best to give every guest the best cruise they can.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Yes - every passenger is entitled to an outstanding level of service, regardless of cabin category or days sailed. There is absolutely no question about this.

But...

It is simply good business to make sure your most loyal passengers can be identified by the crew so they can make extra-sure they are 1) thanked for their loyalty to the line and 2) have any issues or requests resolved with priority.

This is not classism - it's strictly good business sense.

Suite perks should remain an exclusive benefit for those who choose to pay for such accommodation. But perhaps a top-tier mariner booking a veranda cabin might receive (on a limited basis - maybe once per calendar year) a confirmed space-available upgrade to a suite. Or outside to veranda, inside to outside, etc.

Identifying status on the seapass/keycard is a basic and simple good first step. I agree that one shouldn't have to wear jewelry to self-identify as a loyal passenger unless they so choose.

Pete:)

[AirGorilla]

Yes - every passenger is entitled to an outstanding level of service, regardless of cabin category or days sailed. There is absolutely no question about this.

But...

It is simply good business to make sure your most loyal passengers can be identified by the crew so they can make extra-sure they are 1) thanked for their loyalty to the line and 2) have any issues or requests resolved with priority.

This is not classism - it's strictly good business sense.

Suite perks should remain an exclusive benefit for those who choose to pay for such accommodation. But perhaps a top-tier mariner booking a veranda cabin might receive (on a limited basis - maybe once per calendar year) a confirmed space-available upgrade to a suite. Or outside to veranda, inside to outside, etc.

Identifying status on the seapass/keycard is a basic and simple good first step. I agree that one shouldn't have to wear jewelry to self-identify as a loyal passenger unless they so choose.

Pete:)

Pete --

You are making perfectly good sense to me. A good analogy might be the Frequent Flyer Programs of major airlines. For example, I have over 3 million miles on a certain major airline, and am a top-tier member of their program. My boarding pass, luggage tags, etc., all contain that info, so it is easy for the employees to recognize my "status." I sure don't know the pilots, FA's, GA's, etc., on a personal basis -- but I certainly receive fine service!

Room keys coded with the similar info from HAL would go a long way to identify their most frequent guests. (In my opinion, those clunky medals are hideous!)

Some level-specific perks (regardless of cabin class) should be part of each cruise. Perhaps free internet, free cocktails, match play chips for the casino, free dinner in the alternative restaurant, etc., could be included in the "rewards" list. Some occasional rewards, such as upgrades, OBC, etc., could be included in the program as threshold awards (for every 10th cruise, or every 100 days, etc.)

This is a fun thread. Thank you for starting it!!

AG

[GS99]

Stream of consciousness response to this thread:

1. It appears some think high day cruisers should get first class treatment and the lower days folks should get "second class" treatment. Not really good for HAL's future business - as the "second class" folk are going to see/feel second class and try other lines while the first class folk are eventually going to stop cruising (death/senility/finally running out the pot of cash). HAL loses on both fronts.

2. HAL's real concern (at the bean counter level) likely is profit margin per PAX, not days at sea or anything else. If I were to take a 7 day inside cabin special and lose a gazillion dollars at the casino, I'd bet they'd like to GIVE me the next cruise for free, next week -- to get me to come back and lose some more.

3. Is someone who takes four seven day cruises in a year (28 days for those keeping score) more or less loyal than someone who takes one 35 day grand voyage in the same year. Who deserves more perks, respect, fawning, etc?

4. I'd much rather see CASH (whether that be in the form of OBCs or discounted fares) than "special" service. It will never be totally "fair" how HAL structures it. They also know what their objectives are and so will structure it to meet those objectives. (Remember my gazillion dollar loss at the tables!)

5. I expect, if not demand "special" service 'cuz HAL is in the service industry. I expect it for me and for all the rest of you. They do a damn fine job, as far as I could tell from our recent 20 days.

6. My sole criteria for my next booking is whether of not I am going to be able to afford a cruise, and OBCs or discounts are the sole thing that helps.

GS

[Krazy Kruizers]

But...

It is simply good business to make sure your most loyal passengers can be identified by the crew so they can make extra-sure they are 1) thanked for their loyalty to the line and 2) have any issues or requests resolved with priority.



Pete:)

Unfortunately HAL does not do this.

Having 48 cruises with HAL -- and captains don't even know we have sailed quite a bit with HAL -- and, etc., as I stated in previous posts -- just indicates to me that HAL recognizes a very small percentage of people and counts on the rest of us to stay loyal.

[Krazy Kruizers]

GS99

You have a lot of good thouhts.

We do sail in only SA Delux suites -- and we don't expect to have the red carpet rolled out for us while others get no carpet. And I can assure that on our cruises the majority of the time we are treated no differntly than those in an inside cabin. And we have been fortunate the last couple of years to cruise at least 40 days a year.

[the_dylaness]

I haven't reached any level of real significance with any line, but I anticipate that in the future I am going to. Will the repeat pax perks of a certain cruise line (any cruise line) keep me coming back for more? Maybe--- if all other things are roughly equal but one line gives me EXCELLENT perks for being a repeat passenger, I'd be silly not to go with the line that recognized my loyalty.

I do NOT think that suite perks should overlap elite perks--- what if you're both? What's the point of spending extra $$ on the suite when you get all or most of the benefits (except of course, space) anyway?

From my knowledge of HAL's reward program, they have some improvements to make. I don't know that the "cruisers of the future" (myself included-- I have a LOT of cruising years ahead of me) will be thrilled at the concept of a pin or a tile. Perhaps these could be amongst the options at the high levels (so as to satisfy those with traditional tastes) but other benefits of equal value could be selected as well for those of us who wouldn't enjoy those things as much.

[Pettifogger]

What a difficult subject.
I believe that there are still one or more cruise lines which segregate passengers into different classes. Since no one has to cruise and certainly doesn't have to cruise on a cruise line that segregates by class, I don't see how anyone could be justified in complaining. I'm glad that option exists in case I should ever want to try it.
Cruise lines that do not segregate passengers into different classes have the problem of rewarding passengers who pay more without offending the passengers who pay less. After all, in this economic environment every passenger is important, even though some may be more important than others.
While "non-competitive perks" such as OBCs for those who are paying more for their current cruise or have paid for numerous cruises in the past shouldn't offend new or "steerage" passengers unless they are consumed by envy, "competitive perks", such as the privilege to "shoulder ahead" of less privileged passengers with respect to such things as dining are a different matter. When I suffered that indignity myself, I didn't like it.
If I were asked about "perks" on one of those "let us know" forms, I would suggest that HAL should concentrate on doing what it has been doing so well; that is, providing an excellent value premium cruise experience and be very careful about keeping their generosity to their most valuable passengers in forms that the "steerage passengers" would not be justified in resenting.

[RuthC]

It is simply good business to make sure your most loyal passengers can be identified by the crew so they can make extra-sure they are 1) thanked for their loyalty to the line and 2) have any issues or requests resolved with priority.
In a few weeks I will have sailed on HAL for over 400 days, so I believe I count as one of your "high number" Mariners.
I'll let you know that I don't need or want any of what you have listed. I don't need to be selected out for any treatment; I think everyone on the ship should feel they are being treated as special.

What I do want is for HAL to continue to provide the kind of cruise I have come to enjoy. I want the service levels maintained, the food to be delicious and varied, the ships to exude a quiet elegance.
And my pillow chocolate. ;)

If HAL wants to do anything to change the loyalty program, I'll be happy with an OBC which increases on a sliding scale.

[kryos]

Unfortunately HAL does not do this.

Having 48 cruises with HAL -- and captains don't even know we have sailed quite a bit with HAL The captain might not be expected to know it. His job is to drive the ship and see to it that everyone onboard is safe. Everything else with him is gravy.

But the hotel manager ... that's the one who should be very much aware of the high level Mariners onboard his sailing. If he is clueless, then he's not doing his job, IMHO.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[SIZE]Why do you factor OUT suites. We pay a lot more money for those Suites. I think it definitely is a factor that whatever might be Mariner awards do not duplicate those amenties we pay for in our Suite fare. We would get nothing that other Mariners benefit because we have already bought that amenity in our Suite fare (those of us who have sailed a great many days in Suites) ...... And we will have paid for an amenity which becomes worth far less if more are entitled to it by virtue of days sailed. We 'buy' priority embarkation/disembarkation, we pay for priority tendering. Please do not simply dismiss this out of hand.

I think what the OP was saying was that suites or inside cabins shouldn't matter in determining Mariner awards. The awards should be based strictly on Mariner "tiers." Suites get their own set of bennies, and rightfully so.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

The crew and staff are only given lists of passengers -- not days!!

Let me tell you an interesting tidbit ... something I found out on my last cruise.

Toward the end of the sailing ... maybe three or four days prior to disembarkation, I saw a group of people surrounding a flip chart in one of the staff areas on my deck. They were going through some sort of list that was displayed there. One of the people was an officer from the housekeeping department, whom I had gotten to know over the course of the cruise.

Later on I was teasing her ... "high level cabinet meeting there, huh?" She told me that they have them before every cruise. What they were going through was the list of people on the next cruise who would be in each cabin, noting if any of them were "VIPs" such as very high level Mariners, press, influential travel agents, etc. They want the cabin stewards to know that while they are expected to do a great job for all of their passengers, there are certain ones who they really need to take care of for various reasons.

So, yes ... they do know exactly who is staying in which cabin and any special distinctions they may have.

Now, as far as the dining room or bars/lounges, I can't comment on whether or not they receive notification simply because I don't know. Personally, I would imagine not, simply because there would be very difficult for them to identify these people. But, of course, this could be wrong.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

If I were asked about "perks" on one of those "let us know" forms, I would suggest that HAL should concentrate on... providing an excellent value premium cruise experience and be very careful about keeping their generosity to their most valuable passengers in forms that <<non-tier passengers>> would not be justified in resenting.

Yes. This is exactly what I am talking about. Many service-oriented busines do this very well.

I think what the OP was saying was that suites or inside cabins shouldn't matter in determining Mariner awards. The awards should be based strictly on Mariner "tiers." Suites get their own set of bennies, and rightfully so.

Yes. Thank you, Rita.

Let me tell you an interesting tidbit ...What they were going through was the list of people on the next cruise...noting if any of them were "VIPs" such as very high level Mariners, press, influential travel agents, etc.

This is very good to hear. What I am suggesting is that every passenger list or identifier, whenever and wherever it is generated (housekeeping, hotel desk, bar, guest relations, dining room, casino, pinnacle grill, pier, etc., etc.) should automatically identify every passenger's tier status.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Stream of consciousness response to this thread:

1. It appears some think high day cruisers should get first class treatment and the lower days folks should get "second class" treatment. Not really good for HAL's future business - as the "second class" folk are going to see/feel second class and try other lines while the first class folk are eventually going to stop cruising (death/senility/finally running out the pot of cash). HAL loses on both fronts.

To be 100% clear...I am in no way suggesting or recommending what you describe. as you will read in the earlier posts on this thread.

[jhannah]

... I don't need to be selected out for any treatment ... What I do want is for HAL to continue to provide the kind of cruise I have come to enjoy. I want the service levels maintained, the food to be delicious and varied, the ships to exude a quiet elegance.
Bingo! Well said. If they focus on this, they will continue to have their faithful Mariners return time and time again.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

What I do want is for HAL to continue to provide the kind of cruise I have come to enjoy. I want the service levels maintained, the food to be delicious and varied, the ships to exude a quiet elegance.

If HAL wants to do anything to change the loyalty program, I'll be happy with an OBC which increases on a sliding scale.


Ruth:

To my knowledge, no one has suggested a decrease in overall service. Quite to the contrary in fact. I do like your sliding scale suggestion.

Pete

[sail7seas]

I could not agree more that every guest on every HAL ship on every cruise should get the best service possible.

I also agree with Rita's comment that they are aware of who are 'high day Mariners' or VIP of some sort. Though some here deny or do not know it, some Officers/crew know when they have a platinum medallion holder cruising with them.

Just because one does not know something does not mean it isn't true. To deny something happens because you have never personally been informed of it does no one any service IMO

Every guest should be treated excellent but there is nothing wrong with someone buying a Platinum Holder a glass of wine if they see them sitting in Ocean Bar. Nothing wrong with an Officer stopping for a chat if he passes by this person. Odds are good they have sailed together in the past and often have at least a passing acquaintance.

[RuthC]

Ruth:

To my knowledge, no one has suggested a decrease in overall service. Quite to the contrary in fact. I do like your sliding scale suggestion.
I didn't mention a "decrease" in service. I am not supporting your concept of an increase exclusively for those with many HAL sailing days. Everyone should have the same level of service---the level that drew me to, and kept me with, HAL in the first place.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Ruth:

To my knowledge, no one has suggested a decrease in overall service. Quite to the contrary in fact. I do like your sliding scale suggestion.

Pete


I mentioned this back in post #4 and some months ago when a similar topic came up.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Up-coming Noordam cruise -- new captain for us -- new HM manager for us -- no names we recognize -- thus no one will recognize us. But we aren't worried about that -- happens on nearly every ship we sail on.

Never have had an officer or anyone of that nature buy us a drink -- but that could be because we do not hang out at the lounges/bars.

As I said before -- on our last couple of ships, even our cabin stewards had no idea that we were veterans of HAL -- so I do not believe that they go over lists on all cruise ships.

[lorekauf]

As I said before -- on our last couple of ships, even our cabin stewards had no idea that we were veterans of HAL -- so I do not believe that they go over lists on all cruise ships.
Yeah I'm having a hard time swallowing that one too. Maybe in some isolated situations. I had something very strange happen to me on my last sailing. I went into the dining room at lunch one day and the guy at the podium called me by name. I had never seen him before and he wouldn't answer when I asked him how he knew me by name. The only thing I can think of is that they knew me from my dining problem before the cruise and they had a wanted dead or alive picture that they were throwing darts at:D.

[sail7seas]

Up-coming Noordam cruise -- new captain for us -- new HM manager for us -- no names we recognize -- thus no one will recognize us. But we aren't worried about that -- happens on nearly every ship we sail on.



Never have had an officer or anyone of that nature buy us a drink -- but that could be because we do not hang out at the lounges/bars.


Yes, it would be hard to buy you a drink if you aren't in a lounge. :D We like to socialize when we have our pre-dinner drinks. Each individual's choice whether to drink in their cabin, drink in a lounge or not drink at all.



As I said before -- on our last couple of ships, even our cabin stewards had no idea that we were veterans of HAL -- so I do not believe that they go over lists on all cruise ships.


Oh well........

[Krazy Kruizers]

Yeah I'm having a hard time swallowing that one too. Maybe in some isolated situations. I had something very strange happen to me on my last sailing. I went into the dining room at lunch one day and the guy at the podium called me by name. I had never seen him before and he wouldn't answer when I asked him how he knew me by name. The only thing I can think of is that they knew me from my dining problem before the cruise and they had a wanted dead or alive picture that they were throwing darts at:D.

Oh -- I do remember all the problems that you had right before your cruise.

So glad that you were able to get it straightened out before you sail.

[Krazy Kruizers]

[/size][/font][/b]


Yes, it would be hard to buy you a drink if you aren't in a lounge. :D We like to socialize when we have our pre-dinner drinks. Each individual's choice whether to drink in their cabin, drink in a lounge or not drink at all.

[b]


Oh well........

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]There was a time when we loved to sit at the Ocean Bar and have a drink before dinner -- 5 PM. But for the last couple of years we have noticed that hardly anyone is ever there anymore. The AYWD dining has cut into the 5 PM cocktail time. On our last cruises the Ocean Bar and Crow's Nest were DEAD at that time.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I mentioned this back in post #4 and some months ago when a similar topic came up.


I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you said but I see now. Pardon me...:o

[rjm1cc]

I like free things and I also like not being treated as a second class citizen. However I do think the more you sail on a ship there can be some benefits. Maybe expideted checkin, effort made to have cabin ready early, etc. Little items that do not necessarly increase costs would be the way to go.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you said but I see now. Pardon me...:o

Wish I could give you an upgarde on a cruise (my forgiving you) but unfortunately I am not the upgrade fairy.

[Pettifogger]

A couple of years ago, we were on a ship docked at Port Kelang. A luxury cruise liner was docked ahead of us and we saw a couple having breakfast served on their veranda by their butler. It was quite breezy and the table cloth was flapping, the napkins almost blew over the side, and even her husband's "comb-over" was quivering, but she had this look on her face of "I'm entitled to this perk and I'm going to have it."
I think HAL is fortunate to be in a niche where such passengers are rare. (She had every right to her perk; it just seems to me that most HAL passengers are different.) On a recent longer HAL cruise, we met only one person who was determined that everyone know he was in a suite. The two or three other people who we learned by accident were in suites, by passing them as they entered or left their cabins, were as or more self-effacing than those in less expensive cabins. It must be a delight to be the Guest Relation Manager for HAL; at least the one on that ship told us it was.

[blue whale]

Dear BoiseIdahoSpud,

I just found this thread that you started. Your opening post is on-the-mark. You make a number of interesting points in a cogent way.

Thanks Blue whale

[AirGorilla]

There was a time when we loved to sit at the Ocean Bar and have a drink before dinner -- 5 PM. But for the last couple of years we have noticed that hardly anyone is ever there anymore. The AYWD dining has cut into the 5 PM cocktail time. On our last cruises the Ocean Bar and Crow's Nest were DEAD at that time.

Well, the fact that the bar is DEAD is not necessarily a bad thing (assuming it is open!).

(A) You get your choice of seats,
(B) Service is fast -- no waiting for your triple vodka martini,
(C) Hors d'ouvre service would be better than usual, also.

I hate going to a ship's bar, have trouble finding a seat, and then have to put up with slow service!

AG

[Krazy Kruizers]

Actually the srvice was terrible.

We do not like sitting at the bar -- table is our preference.

After sitting for over 5 minutes DH went to the bar to order our drinks. The bar tender took our order and said that someone would bring them right out. We got to the Ocean Bar at about 5:05. The drinks were finally brought to us at 5:20 -- we had to ask for peanuts/nuts -- another 5 minute wait. Then we asked about the appetizers and were told that they weren't ready yet and would be out in a few minutes.

Since we have dinner at 5:45 we had to leave by 5:43 -- never got any appetizers.

And have no idea where the other bar staff was.

Needless to say we didn't go back.

This was a few cruises ago.

And we still walk by the lounges and see them very enpty between 5 and 5:30 most evenings.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Dear BoiseIdahoSpud,

I just found this thread that you started. Your opening post is on-the-mark. You make a number of interesting points in a cogent way.

Thanks Blue whale


Thank you, blue whale. I'm glad you have found the thread interesting. I have found the discussion interesting as well.

I'd like to summarize the suggestions from all posts and provide them to the HAL Mariner program office. Or perhaps I'll just send a link to this thread. I think they would benefit from reading the discussion.

Pete

[AirGorilla]

Actually the srvice was terrible.

We do not like sitting at the bar -- table is our preference.

After sitting for over 5 minutes DH went to the bar to order our drinks. The bar tender took our order and said that someone would bring them right out. We got to the Ocean Bar at about 5:05. The drinks were finally brought to us at 5:20 -- we had to ask for peanuts/nuts -- another 5 minute wait. Then we asked about the appetizers and were told that they weren't ready yet and would be out in a few minutes.

Since we have dinner at 5:45 we had to leave by 5:43 -- never got any appetizers.

And have no idea where the other bar staff was.

Needless to say we didn't go back.

This was a few cruises ago.

And we still walk by the lounges and see them very enpty between 5 and 5:30 most evenings.

Well, dang, KK!! So much for my theory!! I don't blame you for not going back -- I would try for a different bar!!

AG

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Also, as previously stated, those of us who sail in Suites have a different color Key Card, we have priority embarkation/disembarkation and tendering included in the higher fare we pay.




s7s:

So what about the high day count mariners who do not sail in suites?

The type of recognition CRM system (CRM=custormer relationship management) I am suggesting benefits all top-tier regardless of which category they are sailing in.

Pete

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Pete --
Room keys coded with the similar info from HAL would go a long way to identify their most frequent guests. (In my opinion, those clunky medals are hideous!)

Some level-specific perks (regardless of cabin class) should be part of each cruise. Perhaps free internet, free cocktails, match play chips for the casino, free dinner in the alternative restaurant, etc., could be included in the "rewards" list. Some occasional rewards, such as upgrades, OBC, etc., could be included in the program as threshold awards (for every 10th cruise, or every 100 days, etc.)

This is a fun thread. Thank you for starting it!!

AG

You're very welcome - and thanks for participating in the discussion. I think you are hitting the nail on the head. I had used the airline example in an earlier post as a good model to follow.

Pete

[RuthC]

So what about the high day count mariners who do not sail in suites?
That would include me.
I don't want to dilute the perks that have been paid for by those who do sail in suites.

You have said that you have but one short cruise on HAL. I'm curious then, as to why benefits that you clearly would not be entitiled to mean so much to you, especially when it doesn't mean so much to those of us who have many, many days and cruises on HAL.

[sail7seas]

s7s:

So what about the high day count mariners who do not sail in suites?

The type of recognition CRM system (CRM=custormer relationship management) I am suggesting benefits all top-tier regardless of which category they are sailing in.

Pete


On Board Credit or percentage off cruise depending upon how many days works for everyone. Who of us doesn't like money?

Use the OBC for whatever it is that you enjoy.

You want photos, great. Shore excurison? Fabulous. Wine with dinner.? Go for it. etc etc etc

[CowPrincess]

You have said that you have but one short cruise on HAL. I'm curious then, as to why benefits that you clearly would not be entitiled to mean so much to you, especially when it doesn't mean so much to those of us who have many, many days and cruises on HAL.


RuthC, thank you for that question, which you managed to express much more effectively than I would have! I've been wondering the same thing.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

That would include me.
I don't want to dilute the perks that have been paid for by those who do sail in suites.

You have said that you have but one short cruise on HAL. I'm curious then, as to why benefits that you clearly would not be entitiled to mean so much to you, especially when it doesn't mean so much to those of us who have many, many days and cruises on HAL.

Hi Ruth:

As several posts (including mine) have stated, suite perks should be given to suite passengers only, otherwise you dilute the value. I agree with you 100% on this.

Yes, you are correct. We are very new to cruising but we love it. Our first experience on HAL was last February and we had such a nice time that we are returning this February with several family and friends who are new to HAL. We like to think of it as "spreading the HAL gospel".

I started this thread because I have a broad interest in the subject of customer relationship management and loyalty programs. I was curious to see what the well-travelled HAL alumni would have to say on the matter.

I'm less interested in benefits for me and more interested in discovering ways to help HAL improve what is already a very nice service offering. As I said in previous a post, I would consider myself very blessed to be a "high day count" mariner at some point in the future.

Does this help you understand my interest in the subject?

Pete

RuthC, thank you for that question, which you managed to express much more effectively than I would have! I've been wondering the same thing.

Does my response above clear up the confusion, CowPrincess? If not, let me know and I'll try to clarify further if you'd like.

Pete

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

On Board Credit or percentage off cruise depending upon how many days works for everyone. Who of us doesn't like money?

Use the OBC for whatever it is that you enjoy.

You want photos, great. Shore excurison? Fabulous. Wine with dinner.? Go for it. etc etc etc


I think this is fundamental, s7s. Others too have suggested a "sliding scale" that increases based on day count. As you say, it's all about choices.

Pete

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

What they were going through was the list of people on the next cruise who would be in each cabin, noting if any of them were "VIPs" such as very high level Mariners, press, influential travel agents, etc. They want the cabin stewards to know that while they are expected to do a great job for all of their passengers, there are certain ones who they really need to take care of for various reasons.

So, yes ... they do know exactly who is staying in which cabin and any special distinctions they may have.

Now, as far as the dining room or bars/lounges, I can't comment on whether or not they receive notification simply because I don't know. Personally, I would imagine not, simply because there would be very difficult for them to identify these people. But, of course, this could be wrong.



Here is an excerpt from the FAQ section on the Mariner Society website:

###
Q: When making a reservation, how do I identify myself as a Mariner?

A: Whenever you make a reservation for a Holland America Line cruise, be sure to give your Travel Agent your Mariner I.D. number. When your Mariner number is part of your reservation, you will receive Mariner bag tags and buttons with your travel document package, and the ship will receive a report showing your Mariner status and the number of days sailed. The bottom right corner of the Immigration Form in your travel document package also asks you to indicate the number of days sailed.
###

So they must have the information on board. It seems from the balance of the posts on this thread, however that the status does not flow down to all levels of front-of-house staff, doesn't appear on the seapass/key card, doesn't appear at point of sale terminals, etc.

Pete

[Krazy Kruizers]

We had to update last week our immigration forms for our up-coming cruises.

They no longer ask you for the number of days you have sailed.

And I know in the past when they did ask you for the day on the immigration form, several times I types in our days but when we got on the ship and got to the Mariner's awards ceramonies the days were wrong.

[sail7seas]

I think this is fundamental, s7s. Others too have suggested a "sliding scale" that increases based on day count. As you say, it's all about choices.

Pete


I was asked the question and that is my choice for response. :)
Sorry if it is redundant.... The question was addressed specifically to me.

That's my answer and I'm sticking with it. :eek:
Hope you enjoy your second HAL cruise.

[RuthC]

Does this help you understand my interest in the subject?
Not really, as you seem to be arguing more for increased benefits, (to the point of suggesting what those should be), for long-time cruisers, as opposed to asking what it is we would want.

You don't seem to be accepting the concept that many, many long-time cruisers are happy with HAL as it is, and believe what HAL needs to do is continue providing what it is that has pleased us for all these sailing days.

[kryos]

There was a time when we loved to sit at the Ocean Bar and have a drink before dinner -- 5 PM. But for the last couple of years we have noticed that hardly anyone is ever there anymore. The AYWD dining has cut into the 5 PM cocktail time. On our last cruises the Ocean Bar and Crow's Nest were DEAD at that time.Actually that is changing. HAL has instituted a new "concept," the "twofer" ... two for one cocktails in various venues for an hour. In the Ocean Bar they did it from 4:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. every day; in the Crow's Nest from 9:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., and then I think from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. in the Piano Bar (non-smoking cocktail hour). I generally went to the one in the Ocean Bar and trust me, it was packed.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[CowPrincess]

I started this thread because I have a broad interest in the subject of customer relationship management and loyalty programs. I was curious to see what the well-travelled HAL alumni would have to say on the matter.


And yet you don't really seem to understand when a number of "well-travelled HAL alumni" say they don't especially want any of the things you are suggesting. Sorry, I think you are not really listening and understanding what you are being told by members of your "target" group.

It is simply good business to make sure your most loyal passengers can be identified by the crew so they can make extra-sure they are 1) thanked for their loyalty to the line and 2) have any issues or requests resolved with priority.

This is not classism - it's strictly good business sense.


Good business sense does not alienate a group of customers simply because they are new to the business. THAT'S good business sense. Providing excellent service to every customer is good business sense, and as soon as you start giving "more superior" service to someone, the rest of the people are automatically getting "less superior" service. Several people have tried explaining our perception of this concept.

I have no loyalty programs in my business. I give my best work, every time, to every customer. I have never lost a customer to the competition. I have a waiting list. Not because of some loyalty program. Because of the quality of the work I do.

Based on your "interest in customer relationship management and loyalty programs", I'm wondering if you are perhaps trying to work up a pitch to HAL to manage or contribute to their loyalty program. Seriously, I'm starting to wonder about your motives. So I'll not be contributing further to this thread.

[kryos]

I haven't reached any level of real significance with any line, but I anticipate that in the future I am going to. Will the repeat pax perks of a certain cruise line (any cruise line) keep me coming back for more? Maybe--- if all other things are roughly equal but one line gives me EXCELLENT perks for being a repeat passenger, I'd be silly not to go with the line that recognized my loyalty.

See ... now I'm totally different. Yes, it is certainly nice to have repeat passenger benefits, but they in and of themselves don't keep me sailing any one cruise line. I sail the cruise line whose onboard experience (and, of course, itinerary) make me happy. Carnival could give me free internet, free spa treatments, free drinks, free anything ... I probably wouldn't return for another sailing on one of their ships ... not because the ship or the sailing is necessarily a bad one, but because the onboard ambience and in many cases itinerary do not appeal to me. It's all a matter of tastes. I look for one thing in my cruises, a bunch of friends may look for something entirely different. So we all go where we get what we want.

I have a friend who sails RCI exclusively for this reason. She generally prefers their ships and the onboard experience they offer to her and her family. She probably wouldn't be caught dead on HAL because HAL would not give them what they want in a cruise. It wouldn't matter to her one iota what sort of past passenger bennies HAL was offering.

Yes, passenger loyalty programs are nice, but I tend to think they're generally not a deal breaker for most people.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[MightyQuinn]

I'd like to summarize the suggestions from all posts and provide them to the HAL Mariner program office. Or perhaps I'll just send a link to this thread.

And yet you don't really seem to understand when a number of "well-travelled HAL alumni" say they don't especially want any of the things you are suggesting.....
Based on your "interest in customer relationship management and loyalty programs", I'm wondering if you are perhaps trying to work up a pitch to HAL to manage or contribute to their loyalty program. Seriously, I'm starting to wonder about your motives.CowPrincess - Given the OP's stated interest in directing these comments about the Mariner Program directly to HAL, I think you may be onto something. Gee - and to think I believed HAL may actually read these forums! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[HALFans]

There is simply no reason this could not be true for HAL as well. Your status would be visible in your passenger record, on your sea pass itself (by color or symbol), and onboard every time it is scanned. This way all front line employees know the value of the passenger they are serving.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet to see if this has been noted, but aboard ship (at least in the bar areas) every time your stateroom number is keyed in for a charge, the screen briefly flashes a large colored block in your current Mariner Status level... Red, Blue, Gold, etc. so that the ship personnel currently dealing with you DO know your general Mariner status.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I am very happily employed and want absolutely nothing from HAL but the nice cruising experience they provide.

Thanks for contributing to the discussion, everyone.

Happy New Year!
Pete:)

[Krazy Kruizers]

Actually that is changing. HAL has instituted a new "concept," the "twofer" ... two for one cocktails in various venues for an hour. In the Ocean Bar they did it from 4:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. every day; in the Crow's Nest from 9:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., and then I think from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. in the Piano Bar (non-smoking cocktail hour). I generally went to the one in the Ocean Bar and trust me, it was packed.

Blue skies ...

--rita

That sounds like a great idea.

Was it advertized in the daily program?

The Pinao Bar on the Vista class ships never opens until 9 or 9:30 so I don;t see them having a cocktail time from 7 - 8 then.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet to see if this has been noted, but aboard ship (at least in the bar areas) every time your stateroom number is keyed in for a charge, the screen briefly flashes a large colored block in your current Mariner Status level... Red, Blue, Gold, etc. so that the ship personnel currently dealing with you DO know your general Mariner status.

HM -- haven't heard about this.

Many times we haven't even been asked for our card on recent cruises -- we just have gotten a written slip -- no price -- just number of drinks on it -- drinks weren't even run through the register.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I'm wondering if you are perhaps trying to work up a pitch to HAL to manage or contribute to their loyalty program. Seriously, I'm starting to wonder about your motives. So I'll not be contributing further to this thread.

CowPrincess - Given the OP's stated interest in directing these comments about the Mariner Program directly to HAL, I think you may be onto something.

Sigh...so sad...

...and here we see the internet being used for its highest and most noble purpose: baseless accusations made in in the comfort of total annonymity. Perhaps you should read one of the many threads on message board ettiquete.

You could have just asked what kind of work I do. But, in the interests of full disclosure, I am happily employed long-term in the healthcare field and have no connection to or affiliation with the travel or hospitality industry in any way.:)

I'm just an average nice guy who likes to cruise and thought this would be an interesting discussion. Based on the many posts, it has indeed been interesting.

Pete

[lorekauf]

That sounds like a great idea.

Was it advertized in the daily program?

The Pinao Bar on the Vista class ships never opens until 9 or 9:30 so I don;t see them having a cocktail time from 7 - 8 then.
It was listed everyday in the Daily program on the Statendam on my Nov.08 cruise.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

You don't seem to be accepting the concept that many, many long-time cruisers are happy with HAL as it is, and believe what HAL needs to do is continue providing what it is that has pleased us for all these sailing days.

Actually I do accept this, Ruth. I'm all for keeping everything that works and is popular in the program with all the high-day Mariners. I hope that I haven't offended you in any way. Please know that is not my intent.

At the same time, I'm also for constant innovation and looking to improve what is good and helping to make it great.

I hope you and others have a great year filled with many wonderful cruises!

Pete

[gizmo]

These are all good comments so far – thanks for sharing your ideas.

For the sake of this discussion, let’s make some hypothetical assumptions that will give us a baseline:

1. The base/”Mariner Silver” tier begins at 150 days and the top/”Mariner Gold” tier begins at 250 days.
2. Factor out suite privileges because not all passengers sail in suites.
3. We must assume you don’t personally know every crew member on every ship.

Perks are nice in tier-structured loyalty programs, but they’re only one part of a good program. Furthermore, not all loyalty benefits have a direct cost associated with them. The other and in my opinion more valuable aspect of a good loyalty program, is the ability for all staff to easily and quickly recognize the status of a passenger. So let’s explore this. Again, I’ll use the airline program as an example.

When I was a top tier/gold flyer, that status followed me through the entire flying experience. It appeared on my reservation record, boarding card, flight manifest, baggage records, etc. By making that status a part of the passenger record, every staff member could readily see they were dealing with one of their most loyal customers and they just made sure things were handled right the first time.

There is simply no reason this could not be true for HAL as well. Your status would be visible in your passenger record, on your sea pass itself (by color or symbol), and onboard every time it is scanned. This way all front line employees know the value of the passenger they are serving. Tier status could even print on onboard receipts. The same could be true for when you call the front desk and your stateroom number comes up on the screen - your status should appear as well. Dining room managers could have a list of Gold/Silver Mariners to make sure each was personally greeted at the table and thanked for their continuing patronage. Perhaps they could offer a complimentary beverage or some other small gesture to say “welcome back”.



All pax should be treated the same. Dining room managers already visit every table.

A complimentary beverage would be ok with me but when sitting with a group not on your tier, I just don't like the idea of 1 or 2 getting "special" treatment and the others don't.


Some other nice touches from the airline example...I received a beautiful, artistic Christmas card every year. I was once sent a dozen fresh cookies as a thank you for continuing business following 9/11. On occaision, the lead flight attendant would come through the cabin and personally thank each of the top tier flyers for their loyalty to the airline – this was a small gesture than meant something and it didn’t cost a dime.


Hal already sends out Christmas, birthday and thank you for sailing with us emails.


Bottom line: people care about how they are treated and it’s often the little inexpensive things that matter most. All HAL passengers enjoy great service. But the most loyal passengers have earned some extra-special treatment and to make sure issues and requests are handled right the first time.

I’ll look forward to your continuing thoughts.

Pete:)

Everyone's issues and requests should be handled right the first time, not just frequent cruisers with an elite status.

If Hal wanted to do something, my opinion hasn't changed. OBC is the fairest way to go. Forget all the other stuff.

[MightyQuinn]

Perhaps you should read one of the many threads on message board ettiquete.Thanks BoiseIdahoSpud. Please do a quick search of my prior posts before offering me a lesson on message board etiquette.... I'm just an average nice guy who likes to cruise and thought this would be an interesting discussion. Perhaps so. But we all need to make allowances for ideas/opinions that we may not like. The give & take on these message boards is often what keeps it interesting! ;);)

[sail7seas]

gizmoAll pax should be treated the same. Dining room managers already visit every table.

A complimentary beverage would be ok with me but when sitting with a group not on your tier, I just don't like the idea of 1 or 2 getting "special" treatment and the others don't.


That is simple, good manners. I can't imagine an HAL officer would send a drink to two persons seated with a group of six. If they choose to send you a drink when you are with others, there is no question but that they would treat all to a drink.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

But we all need to make allowances for ideas/opinions that we may not like. The give & take on these message boards is often what keeps it interesting! ;);)

Hi MightyQuinn:

Fair enough. I love a spirited discussion...as long as it is respectful in tone. And please - call me out if I have failed to be respectful and courteous. :) I'll own up to it and apologize.

I just needed to make it 100% clear to CowPrincess that her allegation of getting in with the cruise line for employment was absolutely baseless and totally off the mark.

Pete:)

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

gizmo

That is simple, good manners. I can't imagine an HAL officer would send a drink to two persons seated with a group of six. If they choose to send you a drink when you are with others, there is no question but that they would treat all to a drink.




Yes, Sail. I agree with you. Your concerns are very valid. If something like this were to be done it would have to be discreet and basically "invisible" to others. I was thinking that if something were provided comp, that it would simply not be on your bill. Subtle and discreet. No need for others to know or be aware.

Pete:)

Pete

[sail7seas]

Yes, Sail. I agree with you. Your concerns are very valid. Pete:)

Pete


:confused: Concerns? I expressed no concerns.
Gizmo may have but I did not.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet to see if this has been noted, but aboard ship (at least in the bar areas) every time your stateroom number is keyed in for a charge, the screen briefly flashes a large colored block in your current Mariner Status level... Red, Blue, Gold, etc. so that the ship personnel currently dealing with you DO know your general Mariner status.


Thanks for sharing this - was anyone else aware of this?

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Hope you enjoy your second HAL cruise.

Thank you for the kind wishes, Sail. We're so happy to be returning and bringing several "new to HAL" cruisers along for the voyage.

By the way...thanks also for your adivce on the Maasdam on the "room service" thread last week. I appreciated that. We're looking at the 2009 7-day Candian and New England itinerary.

Pete:)

[kryos]

That sounds like a great idea.

Was it advertized in the daily program?

Quite prominently.

Originally, it was just the one from 4:00 to 5:00 p.m. in the Ocean Bar, and the one from 9:00 to 10:00 p.m. in the Crow's Nest ... but then about five days after they started doing this, they added the non-smoking one in the Piano Bar, which I think was from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m.

From what I understand, these happy hours became increasingly popular with the passengers as the cruise wore on. I know for a fact that the one in the Ocean Bar got more crowded each day. This was a 35-day cruise, by the way.

Let me note here, too, that with the happy hour deal, you couldn't use your cocktail card. You paid regular price for the first cocktail, and got the second (had to be the same cocktail) for free. Lots of couples attended and even though they had to drink the same thing to take advantage of the deal, often that was fine. They would take turns selecting the cocktail they would both drink that day.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Krazy Kruizers]

Quite prominently.

Originally, it was just the one from 4:00 to 5:00 p.m. in the Ocean Bar, and the one from 9:00 to 10:00 p.m. in the Crow's Nest ... but then about five days after they started doing this, they added the non-smoking one in the Piano Bar, which I think was from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m.

From what I understand, these happy hours became increasingly popular with the passengers as the cruise wore on. I know for a fact that the one in the Ocean Bar got more crowded each day. This was a 35-day cruise, by the way.

Let me note here, too, that with the happy hour deal, you couldn't use your cocktail card. You paid regular price for the first cocktail, and got the second (had to be the same cocktail) for free. Lots of couples attended and even though they had to drink the same thing to take advantage of the deal, often that was fine. They would take turns selecting the cocktail they would both drink that day.

Blue skies ...

--rita


I like that idea!!

HAL has been complaining that alcohol sales are down -- this is a great way to get people into the lounges.

We have never bought the cocktail card so that wouldn't be a problem for us.

We do get the wine card but we use that in the Lido for lunch and the dining room at dinner time.

[gizmo]

KK,

I have seen a happy hour with the 2 for 1, but not on the Noordam this past Oct./Nov. :( When we did see it we couldn't take advantage of it because we always have late seating and we were getting dressed for dinner during the happy hour times.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks gizmo

I was really hoping that the Noordam would have a happy hour with the 2 for 1 drinks.

[gizmo]

KK,

Hope they have it on your next cruise. :)

[RedmondCruiser]

On the Ryndam they had Happy Hour and the Ocean Bar was full. Everyone had two of the same drinks. Not a bad idea for HAL to get more people in the lounges. I wonder if anyone had two glasses of Louis 13th ???? (tounge in cheek)

[sail7seas]

We have a member on this board who would have jumped at the chance to have two for one Louis 13th. ESPECIALLY if it meant he would empty the bottle and be given it. :D

No tongue in cheek. He has been known to enjoy it on the ships.

[RedmondCruiser]

We have a member on this board who would have jumped at the chance to have two for one Louis 13th. ESPECIALLY if it meant he would empty the bottle and be given it. :D

No tongue in cheek. He has been known to enjoy it on the ships.

I also might be tempted. HAL charges $90 for 1 1/2 oz and Princess charged $45 for an ounce. $90 for 3 ounces would be a good deal. ------ The $90 price was from several cruises ago and I really don't know what their current price might be.

[the_dylaness]

See ... now I'm totally different. Yes, it is certainly nice to have repeat passenger benefits, but they in and of themselves don't keep me sailing any one cruise line. I sail the cruise line whose onboard experience (and, of course, itinerary) make me happy. Carnival could give me free internet, free spa treatments, free drinks, free anything ... I probably wouldn't return for another sailing on one of their ships ... not because the ship or the sailing is necessarily a bad one, but because the onboard ambience and in many cases itinerary do not appeal to me. It's all a matter of tastes. I look for one thing in my cruises, a bunch of friends may look for something entirely different. So we all go where we get what we want.

I have a friend who sails RCI exclusively for this reason. She generally prefers their ships and the onboard experience they offer to her and her family. She probably wouldn't be caught dead on HAL because HAL would not give them what they want in a cruise. It wouldn't matter to her one iota what sort of past passenger bennies HAL was offering.

Yes, passenger loyalty programs are nice, but I tend to think they're generally not a deal breaker for most people.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Hi Rita!

Sorry, I guess I should have explained myself a little better. What I was trying to say was that let's say that once I've had a chance to take cruises on most of the mass market lines, I decided (this is just for the sake of argument) that I like the products offered by HAL, X, and Princess. Now, I might like different aspects of each of those but let's say overall I liked them equally. If one of those lines had a stellar repeat pax program, I'd be silly not to sail more often (if not exclusively) with that line.

I didn't mean that a past pax program would improve my opinion of one line over another, but if all other things were roughly equal (including cost) I'd be more likely to choose the good benefits more often.

[kryos]

On the Ryndam they had Happy Hour and the Ocean Bar was full. Everyone had two of the same drinks. Not a bad idea for HAL to get more people in the lounges. I wonder if anyone had two glasses of Louis 13th ???? (tounge in cheek)
Is Louis 13th a "Signature" cocktail? If so, it's possible. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

If one of those lines had a stellar repeat pax program, I'd be silly not to sail more often (if not exclusively) with that line.

Of course, you're right. In the case where you enjoyed all the lines equally, then I would have to say that a better repeat passenger program on one would probably influence my choice as well.

But I think in HAL's case, it's rarely gonna come that close. HAL is a unique enough line that I think it draws a certain type of passenger. That type of passenger probably wouldn't be in the situation of liking HAL, RCI and Carnival equally. The HAL experience is just too unique. You either love it or you hate it. You may sail Carnival or RCI on occasion, but usually if you're a true HAL fan, you only sail those other lines for specific reasons ... either you're traveling with a group that is going on one of those lines, or you are traveling with a large family group that has a bunch of kids and you want a more "kid friendly" line, or whatever. There would be no really close comparison. You would definitely prefer the HAL experience over the experience of those other lines.

That's why I think HAL doesn't really have that great of a past passenger program. They don't need one. Their passenger tends to be loyal to the line without one because the line offers a unique onboard experience that they can't get on any of those other lines. If the passengers enjoy that experience, then they are gonna come back to HAL time and time again. If they don't, then they would have never returned for the second cruise even if HAL offered an amazing past passenger program. The line would just not be your cup of tea.

But when you sail one of those other lines a lot ... Carnival, RCI, etc., I think the experience offered onboard is pretty much the same and thus those lines have to compete to get you back with bennie-packed past passenger programs. Otherwise, they could lose you since another mass market line is offering pretty much the same cruise experience with a better past passenger program.

Of course, this is just my take on it, but I think HAL is unique enough that they have their own stable of fans who look specifically for the trademark HAL experience that they can't really get anywhere else. So, they don't have to offer lots of past passenger bennies. Those passengers will gladly keep coming back without them.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RuthC]

Is Louis 13th a "Signature" cocktail? If so, it's possible.
At 90 bucks a pop? Nooooo, it's not a signature cocktail.

[the_dylaness]

Of course, this is just my take on it, but I think HAL is unique enough that they have their own stable of fans who look specifically for the trademark HAL experience that they can't really get anywhere else. So, they don't have to offer lots of past passenger bennies. Those passengers will gladly keep coming back without them.


I'm pretty sure the only way to find the resolution here is going to be to keep cruising... a lot... once I've got a few HAL cruises under my belt I think I'll be able to make a more informed decision... it's really for research, I swear...

[AirGorilla]

Of course, you're right. In the case where you enjoyed all the lines equally, then I would have to say that a better repeat passenger program on one would probably influence my choice as well.

But I think in HAL's case, it's rarely gonna come that close. HAL is a unique enough line that I think it draws a certain type of passenger. That type of passenger probably wouldn't be in the situation of liking HAL, RCI and Carnival equally. The HAL experience is just too unique. You either love it or you hate it. You may sail Carnival or RCI on occasion, but usually if you're a true HAL fan, you only sail those other lines for specific reasons ... either you're traveling with a group that is going on one of those lines, or you are traveling with a large family group that has a bunch of kids and you want a more "kid friendly" line, or whatever. There would be no really close comparison. You would definitely prefer the HAL experience over the experience of those other lines.

That's why I think HAL doesn't really have that great of a past passenger program. They don't need one. Their passenger tends to be loyal to the line without one because the line offers a unique onboard experience that they can't get on any of those other lines. If the passengers enjoy that experience, then they are gonna come back to HAL time and time again. If they don't, then they would have never returned for the second cruise even if HAL offered an amazing past passenger program. The line would just not be your cup of tea.

But when you sail one of those other lines a lot ... Carnival, RCI, etc., I think the experience offered onboard is pretty much the same and thus those lines have to compete to get you back with bennie-packed past passenger programs. Otherwise, they could lose you since another mass market line is offering pretty much the same cruise experience with a better past passenger program.

Of course, this is just my take on it, but I think HAL is unique enough that they have their own stable of fans who look specifically for the trademark HAL experience that they can't really get anywhere else. So, they don't have to offer lots of past passenger bennies. Those passengers will gladly keep coming back without them.

Blue skies ...

--rita

But, a cruiser may well like HAL, Princess and Celebrity equally!!

[Pettifogger]

kyros: Thank you for stating the case so beautifully for me and many others, I believe.

[kryos]

I also might be tempted. HAL charges $90 for 1 1/2 oz and Princess charged $45 for an ounce. $90 for 3 ounces would be a good deal. ------ The $90 price was from several cruises ago and I really don't know what their current price might be. $90 bucks for three ounces!?!?!?!

Holy cannolli!

I wouldn't be able to have more than one drink the entire cruise at that price!

Nice to know some people can afford it. Sadly I'm not one of them. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I'm pretty sure the only way to find the resolution here is going to be to keep cruising... a lot... once I've got a few HAL cruises under my belt I think I'll be able to make a more informed decision... it's really for research, I swear...LOL ... that's the ticket ... cruise and cruise and cruise and get lots of experience with a lot of different cruise lines.

Now, if I could only find someone to fund my research. Wonder if I can get a government grant for such a thing? :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

At 90 bucks a pop? Nooooo, it's not a signature cocktail. LOL ... well, then ... guess it wouldn't qualify for the "twofer" promotion. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[jhannah]

Wonder if I can get a government grant for such a thing? I'd certainly think so. Just look at some of the stuff they earmark. Stuff like studying the mating habits of the Polish bisexual frog! :eek: Why it hurts when you bang your head with a hammer! :rolleyes:

If you frame it within the context of quantifying the corelation between inhaling sea air and endorphin production, you stand a very good chance! Of course, for validity you'll need to document Mediterranean air, Atlantic air, Caribbean air, Pacific air, Black Sea air, etc. It could take you YEARS to assemble your statistics.

[HALFans]

Carnivore owns so MANY cruise lines... Holland America, Princess, Cunard, etc. included. As far as CCL is concerned, if you're on one of their Cruise Lines' ships, you're a repeat passenger. If they don't have to give a lot of perks to keep you on one of their lines, why should they?

If for some reason you're upset with HAL and want to do your next cruise on Princess, what does it matter to CCL? Of course, each cruise line would prefer you stay with them, but ultimately the money flows into the CCL coffers, and it's there that many decisions are made.

If there was some real competition for a niche traveler, you'd see more significant benefits being offered to ensure 'Brand Loyalty'. As such, there just isn't the need.

[Pettifogger]

I'm surprised to see that Carnival has apparently not interfered with HAL nearly as much as I would have expected. In other industries, when larger companies take over a smaller one which has made a name for quality, more often than not they preserve the valuable name as long as possible, but promptly dilute the quality that made that name. I'm certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that Carnival didn't do that with HAL for which I shall be eternally grateful to them. Even though it may just have been "hardheaded" business decision, I benefitted from it, so I'm grateful.

[sail7seas]

I'm surprised to see that Carnival has apparently not interfered with HAL nearly as much as I would have expected. In other industries, when larger companies take over a smaller one which has made a name for quality, more often than not they preserve the valuable name as long as possible, but promptly dilute the quality that made that name. I'm certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that Carnival didn't do that with HAL for which I shall be eternally grateful to them. Even though it may just have been "hardheaded" business decision, I benefitted from it, so I'm grateful.


Are you aware Carnival Corporation purchased (saved) HAL something like 20 years ago?

It is hardly a 'new purchase'.

Carnival bought Princess far, far more recently.

[Pettifogger]

sail7seas: I'm not sure who you're quoting for the words 'new purchase'. I don't remember using them.

[sail7seas]

Forgive me if I am mistaken but I got the sense from your post that you were implying Carnival Corporation's purchase of HAL was recent.