Pricing Rip Off

[mcduck]

I noticed tonight that HAL has substituted a day at sea for our Grand Cayman stop on the Wdam Christmas cruise. While this was the only port we were looking forward to as we have not been there in quite some time, that is obviously out of HAL's control. HOWEVER, they have NOT changed the pricing of the cruise, and appear to have "scooped" the port charges as a profit for themseves. I would have expected to receive a credit for the amount of the port charges that they would have been paying to the port authorities, not take that as their own windfall profit. Will be interesting to see what my TA can find out in the morning - knew that we should have booked that Princess Panama cruise instead!

[Keith B.]

You might want to find out how much the cruise lines are contributing to the rebuilding of the islands which were devistated by the recent hurricanes before you accuse them of profiteering.

[shipcafe]

Given the last-minute refunds, partial refunds, etc. that were occurring due to the cruise lines' (as well as others) flexible cancelation policies because of the recent hurricane cruises, it seems to me that a lot more money was lost from that!

[mcduck]

As the port charges are seperate charge, it is MY money, not theirs. If they choose to make a financial contribution, that is their business and they are free to do what they want to with their profits (and they have an obvious interest in supporting the various countries that they stop at).

This will no doubt lead to a bunch of flames about not supporting these people in a time of need and so on, but that would just mean that you have missed the point, and have ignored the possibility that I may have already made a personal contribution.

I also think that they should be informing their passengers of the itinerary changes (but will note that I do not know yet if they have notified my TA, and the TA dropped the ball).

[shipcafe]

I noticed tonight that HAL has substituted a day at sea for our Grand Cayman stop on the Wdam Christmas cruise. While this was the only port we were looking forward to as we have not been there in quite some time, that is obviously out of HAL's control. HOWEVER, they have NOT changed the pricing of the cruise, and appear to have "scooped" the port charges as a profit for themseves. I would have expected to receive a credit for the amount of the port charges that they would have been paying to the port authorities, not take that as their own windfall profit. Will be interesting to see what my TA can find out in the morning - knew that we should have booked that Princess Panama cruise instead!

MCDuck : I am not exactly sure what the communication process was, though. I would just check with your TA to see if anything had been received.

You say that you were 'ripped off'. Have any calls been made by your TA to reservations, etc. to see if this port charge adjustment would be made? Again, I don't know if any WERE or WOULD be. Having the TA call reservations to investigate is definitely the way to go, however. In previous cases when there were modifications, it may have taken a call to have that investigated.

[iluvcruzin]

McDuck.. Wait and see what your TA says. Technically they can't overcharge for Portcharges (anyone remember the days of vouchers to reimburse overpayment by some lines?). It's possible you will get a shipboard credit for the missed port. Hopefully your TA can get this settled before you sail.

[dakrewser]

According to the folks on GC, ships will begin stopping there again sometime next month. So I wouldn't be too quick to think that the itinerary is final. In fact, as you know, it isn't final until you actually get there.


It's far too early to worry about which stops will be made or not. Certainly way too soon to start asking for refunds or other compensation. Why ruin a good cruise by stewing for two months over something which might not occur?

[kryos]

As the port charges are seperate charge, it is MY money, not theirs. If they choose to make a financial contribution, that is their business and they are free to do what they want to with their profits (and they have an obvious interest in supporting the various countries that they stop at).

I have a feeling they will refund the port charges as a matter of policy. On my recent Zuiderdam cruise we had to skip Nassau due to weather. I received a $28.00 something credit on my shipboard account for the port charges. I didn't get anything for the cancelled HMC stop, but then since HMC is Hal's private island, I doubt they incur any port charges there, so there would be nothing to refund.

Before you get yourself too upset, wait to hear from your TA. I'll bet those charges are going to be refunded/credited if another port is not substituted.

As far as I know, HAL makes nothing off the port charges, and I doubt they would seek to profit from them in this case.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Ziggy7]

As the port charges are seperate charge, it is MY money, not theirs. If they choose to make a financial contribution, that is their business and they are free to do what they want to with their profits (and they have an obvious interest in supporting the various countries that they stop at).

This will no doubt lead to a bunch of flames about not supporting these people in a time of need and so on, but that would just mean that you have missed the point, and have ignored the possibility that I may have already made a personal contribution.

I also think that they should be informing their passengers of the itinerary changes (but will note that I do not know yet if they have notified my TA, and the TA dropped the ball).
Perhaps you should know the facts before you accuse someone of something :) HAL is one of the few cruise lines that does refund non used port fees. Your Princess does not however, still it's your choice, we missed Grand Cayman due to huricane Charlye and we went to Nassau instead, and HAL gave us a shipboard creadit for the balance because Nassau did not charge as much as GC. And you might want to read the fine print on all crusie lines, how they have the right to change the itinerary at anytime and without needing a reason. Your ininerary may change 6 times more before you actually sail, so if you are certin you would prefer panama canal, perhaps you should cancel and book that one :)

[Sage]

When we have been unable to stop at a port, the port charges have always shown up as a credit on our onboard account. Perhaps this will be the case for you.

[doone]

I agree with the others here, wait and see what your TA finds out before you assume too much. Perhaps Princess and other lines are doing the samething and you wouldn't have made out any better or worse with another line. Bottom line, don't assume.

[gizmo]

I am with the others. Hang in there. The port charge will probably show up on your ship board account. Although this happened while on board, I had a port cancelled. Every pax was refunded the money and it was credited to the on board accounts. The cruise line cannot charge you fees for a port you did not stop at.
Cruise lines contributing to help the rebuilding on the islands has nothing to do with this.

[serene56]

You are not sailing until December. I doubt very much if your agent is going to refund those port taxes right now. THings could change by then and Crang Cayman may be a port stop again.

[grannynurse]

We have always been compensated by HAL for port charges whe a port has had to be omitted.
I just noticed that our Zaandam New Year's cruise has been significantly changed. 2 ports removed, GC and St. Maartin, a sea day added and Costa Maya added.

This is no easy job for HAL. Imagine the impact and increased workload. The logistics have to be staggering. Let's give them a break, they've, 99% of the time, been extremely fair with us. I know we'll hear from them.
GN

[98Charlie]

Correct me if I'm wrong:


OP saw (probably on an internet agency web site) that his cruise is no longer advertising GC.
This was on the weekend.
there are probably 1500 or more booked passengers.

Is it surprising that they changed the itinerary before all booked passengers were notified? If they made the decision to cut GC from the cruise I would think that they would change the ad first (so as not to increase the number of dissatisfied passengers) and then work on the port charges for the already booked passengers.

NCL Sea this past May, we came to our cabin and saw everyone had a note on their door. We were all refunded $25 or so for a change in port charges. We didn't miss a port, so if they had kept the money I doubt anyone would have known

[momrox1]

McDuck
Here is some info re Cayman taken from the Westin site. I too am going to Cayman on my Nov 14 Oosterdam cruise (was) but I also have a week booked at the Westin in Feb. I too don't like the fact that I had to find out here and not from the cruise line or my TA. BTW, I know how you feel...you were just asking a simple question.
The Westin Casuarina and the Island of Grand Cayman are recovering from Hurricane Ivan. Power and telephone service are expected to be restored throughout the island by the middle of October and the airport is expected to reopen to tourists on October 29, 2004. The Resort will reopen on November 1, 2004 with all services available.

[shipcafe]

I noticed tonight that HAL has substituted a day at sea for our Grand Cayman stop on the Wdam Christmas cruise. While this was the only port we were looking forward to as we have not been there in quite some time, that is obviously out of HAL's control. HOWEVER, they have NOT changed the pricing of the cruise, and appear to have "scooped" the port charges as a profit for themseves. I would have expected to receive a credit for the amount of the port charges that they would have been paying to the port authorities, not take that as their own windfall profit. Will be interesting to see what my TA can find out in the morning - knew that we should have booked that Princess Panama cruise instead!


I just found out from a friend on a similar (if not the same) sailing that port charges and taxes are being adjusted to reflect the port changes.

I would contact your TA and make sure that this is taking place.

[hdawson]

The change in itenerary is as always, tentative. You haven't missed a port as yet. GC could reopen as mentioned above. A couple of ships a week begining early in Nov. I was just on Zuiderdam and we ended up going to Costa Maya. Untill you ARE ripped off, suggest calming down and see what actually happens over the next couple of months.

[momrox1]

I called HAL and was told we will get a shipboard credit for our missed port and the amount is usually between 8-20 dollars pp. Enough for a day at the T-Pool :)

Judy

[bepsf]

Twenty-something bucks difference on a @$3000 vacation.
Wow.

[momrox1]

I know...Let the fun begin but bring your own straw!!!!!

[RuthC]

I have missed many, many ports over the years, and have never failed to get an on-board credit for the port charges.
Once I missed a cruise entirely. The port charges were credited to the charge card used to pay for the cruise. :(

Hal has never cheated me that I'm aware of. :)

[RichardK]

Windfall profit??? Who's paying the "gas bill" for that extra day at sea???

[mcduck]

Re-reading what I wrote late last night surprised me this afternoon, as I was way more upset than I needed to be. I think that it was just the last straw on a very bad week or so, when even a minor molehill becomes a mountain.

Have not heard back from our TA yet, but have no problem with a ship board credit for the port fees. I think that the biggest disapointment was that there was no replacement port, just another day a sea. (I was expecting GC to be cancelled, and was hoping for a replacement stop at Costa Maya). We choose our cruises by ports first, ship second. And as I said in my post on the twotravelers thread, it will still be 10 below back home while we are sailing somewhere between Cozumel and Jamaica, rather than moored at GC - like I said sometimes small molehills become mountains until you stop and reflect and figure out that the glass is not half empty.

We have never had a bad experience with HAL, and as I have said before, even our two teens prefer to sail on HAL over Carnival and Princess, as they consider it "classier". (They prefer to spend their days at sea on the balcony reading and just enjoying the sun).

My apologies to all, and thanks to those with positive comments. And just so that you know that I have paid some "penance" for over reacting, I originally posted this reply on the twotravelers thread by mistake and as I had no idea how to move it to the right thread, have had to re-key this response!

[doone]

Mcduck, been there as well, I know I have also made mountains out of holehills, don't worry about it. You'll have a wonderful cruise. Enjoy!!!

[Keith B.]

We are sailing on the Zaandam 6 Nov. I have asked my T.A to check on GC. She said we ARE going to GC per HAL. I hope she isn't lieing to me. I won't be upset with HAL if we don't (I love at sea days) but I will be looking for a new T.A.

[Esme]

Keith - check out HAL's web site. According to them you're not going to GC.

Itineary is now lv. Pt. Canaveral, sea, Cozumel, sea, Ocho Rios, sea, HMC.

Things could change, but at this late date, doubt GC will be ready.

We also are missing GC on our December cruise on the Westerdam, and we couldn't care less. Been there, done that sort of thing. We'll take a day at sea anytime.

Many times we have missed ports, in fact on our very first cruise back in 1981, we missed 2 ports and put into Curacao for 2 days instead of 1. Were we upset - NO! :D

Life is too short to be worrying about small matters like this, isn't it. I see you like sea days also. :D

[janisutx]

I'm also on the Westerdam Christmas Cruise and very sorry to hear we won't be going to Grand Cayman. My group picked this cruise because of that port too. We are very excited about sailing on the Westerdam and will spend more time in the spa and exploring the ship with an extra sea day. As my daughter's friend Julie said after the hurricanes, "as long as the Westerdam is okay and the blenders and ice machines are running, I'm there!"

[Jeal]

Grannynurse - thanks for the info on the itinerary change on the New Year's cruise on the Zaandam. We will be on the Zaandam then also. Truthfully, we don't care which ports the ship stops in on this particular cruise - we are going for rest and relaxation.

[cruzincurt]

Quiet please! HAL just substituted 3 ports for two on our Nov 13th Veendam. Two of these new ones are ports we haven't been to before, so we are happy about that. Now, will they be charging us an additional port fee?

[Cruiseoften]

Aw, come on! Your share of the Port Taxes is going to amount to nickles and dimes - chances are you'll receive a few free drinks!

Feeling as you do about Princes, perhaps you should have booked with that Line in the first place. :p

P.S. Can relate to having a bad day - it's always that miserable straw that breaks the camels back - I'm sure you'll be compensated for miss GC :D

[jima53]

We also received the change in our schedule for our 10/23 cruise. Got an email from HAL showing the change and explaining why. No problem for us because we would rather have a lazy day at sea. Just our preference but knowing what the Islands have gone through is enough for us. We got some of the outlying winds here in northern Florida and are just wanting to relax.

Jim

[Ray in NH]

Hi All,

Our stop in GC, during upcoming B-2-B on Oosterdam, has also been cancelled. Our travel agent forwarded the fax from HAL, showing revised itnerary. In our case the missed stop in GC is being replaced by a stop in Key West. We're happy cruisers.

[Keith B.]

I talked with HAL today to get the straight poop. The bottom line was the adjustment would be made on the ship not before even though they have already changed the itinary. It has something to do with making all adjustments at the same time. If another change happens and they go to a different port or they end up going to the port afterall, etc.
Made sense to me and quite frankly I really don't give a damn about the $20. These folks have plenty of headaches trying to give us a great cruise and I'd prefer they give the money to the people of G.C. who desperatly need it.
I already mailed a check to a relief organization down there.
Now I have to mail the stuff I was bringing with me to give them (when I thought we were stopping there.)

[sheephugs]

I found out from reading the posts about the cancelled G.C. stop. I called HAL & spoke to a Customer service agent. I told her I understood why but when were they going to tell me, after all HAL e-mails me about every two weeks with promotions. I had an excursion booked with Capt. Marvin since HAL was not offering a Stingray City excursion & would need to cancel it (I had e-mailed HAL several weeks ago & as of then the 11/23 G.C. stop was a go). She informed me that it was my responsibility to find out about the changed itinerary & used an analogy that if we were going to a hotel in Europe & it burned down it's not the hotel's responsibility to inform me. I really don't get that one! I asked about a credit on port charges & she said they don't call them port charges anymore and they are non-refundable...basically like it or lump it! The last HAL cruise changed they itinerary (switched Tortola & St. Thomas days) & they shortened the stay in St. Thomas by about 5 or 6 hours. Is this typical HAL attitude or did I get a representative having a bad day?

[gizmo]

I asked about a credit on port charges & she said they don't call them port charges anymore and they are non-refundable...basically like it or lump it! The last HAL cruise changed they itinerary (switched Tortola & St. Thomas days) & they shortened the stay in St. Thomas by about 5 or 6 hours. Is this typical HAL attitude or did I get a representative having a bad day?
This is an interesting statement. Over on the X board there is a similiar thread stating basically the same thing, " they don't call them port charges anymore and they are non-refundable".

I looked at Hal's web site and there are no Port Charges listed. Taxes and Fees are listed, but I have never figured out what the Fee was.

Maybe Jazzsea or another person in the travel business can enlighten us.

[mcduck]

If the per passenger fee that is paid to the local port authority is not credited back to the passangers, it does create a significant "windfall" for the cruise line. It may only be $20 or $25, but if there are 2,000 pax on board, that is a $40,000 - $50,000 windfall.

Our TA has not yet received an answer for HAL as to what is going to happen with the port charges.

Years ago, when I first got into the automobile industry, I noticed that the factory's coded invoice included a option charge of $0.99 on every invoice. After searching in great detail through the dealer code books, I discovered that this $0.99 "option" on every vehicle was an "invoice preparation" charge.

So, take the huge number of vehicles this manufacturer sells times a lowly $0.99 and you get a great big profit. Would you be impressed if Wal Mart or Piggly Wiggly added $0.10 to every sales slip for producing your receipt? (This $0.99 charge disapeared off the invoices some time ago.)

I would also bet that hotel with the fire would not only be contacing their guests, but would also be trying to make alternative accomodations at other hotels. In our case, if we will not have a car to fill your rental reservation, we make alternative arrangements with one of our competitors to make sure you have a car, and pick up any rate differential, and if no one has a car, will refund all you cab fares untill we can deliver one to you.

[shipcafe]

If the per passenger fee that is paid to the local port authority is not credited back to the passangers, it does create a significant "windfall" for the cruise line. It may only be $20 or $25, but if there are 2,000 pax on board, that is a $40,000 - $50,000 windfall.

Our TA has not yet received an answer for HAL as to what is going to happen with the port charges.

Years ago, when I first got into the automobile industry, I noticed that the factory's coded invoice included a option charge of $0.99 on every invoice. After searching in great detail through the dealer code books, I discovered that this $0.99 "option" on every vehicle was an "invoice preparation" charge.

So, take the huge number of vehicles this manufacturer sells times a lowly $0.99 and you get a great big profit. Would you be impressed if Wal Mart or Piggly Wiggly added $0.10 to every sales slip for producing your receipt? (This $0.99 charge disapeared off the invoices some time ago.)

I would also bet that hotel with the fire would not only be contacing their guests, but would also be trying to make alternative accomodations at other hotels. In our case, if we will not have a car to fill your rental reservation, we make alternative arrangements with one of our competitors to make sure you have a car, and pick up any rate differential, and if no one has a car, will refund all you cab fares untill we can deliver one to you.

Okay you're losing me - LOL ... Is the ship supposed to relate to a hotel fire? The ship will still be in port and be sailing a seven-day cruise. From what we are to gather, the stateroom will still be intact.

Also to date I have never seen documentation or reports solidifying cruise line usage of port fees. I know that they are separated between "non discountable fees" which are formerly "port charges" and then government taxes.

Back to the car rental as well.. I'm confused. I guess it's just too early in the morning. LOL :D

[gizmo]

Took another look at Hal's site. This APPEARS to be port charges although it doesn't say that. It only calls it NDA.

NDA/NCA Your cruise fare includes a "Non-Discountable Amount" (NDA). That portion of the fare is both non-commissionable to travel agents (NCA) and not subject to reduction in the event of a percentage discount promotion, 2 for 1 promotion or otherwise

[peaches from georgia]

Port charges are non-discountable fees because HAL owes each port visited that amount per person and if this fee was part of what was discounted HAL would not have collected enough from each person to pay the port charge.

We DID get a credit on our shipboard account when the Oosterdam could not get into Grand Cayman due to weather. Why do some people always presume before the fact that everyone is out to rip them off?

[gizmo]

I agree with you Peaches. We also got a refund on board when we missed a port.

I am thinking this NDA is port charges since this amount is not taken into the dollar amount of a cruise when a discount is applied.

I think the Hal customer rep told Sheephugs there are no port charges since they are not listed as Port Charges.

It is possible that the same thing is going on over on X board and the documents don't say "Port Charges" but something else instead.

[ryansmemom]

This might seem simplistic, but, why not just give them the benifit of the doubt instead of assuming they are out to rip you off. The logistics of this have to be a nightmare. They have to take a lot of factors into consideration and possibly make some last minuite changes to get the best possible result for all involved. We have been on many cruises where last minuite changes have been made to the itinerary and the costs are all sorted out in the end.

It is sad, though that so many of us are so stressed out these days that we are unable to handle having even something as small as this undefined.

We all need to be on a cruise ship so we can relax!!

Linda

[Roadwork]

I don't think anyone is getting bent out of shape over this. The original poster did apologize for over reacting. After that post, it reads more like a discussion.

What sheephugs was told by a Hal representive is confusing.

If I were booked on any of these cruises, I would be looking for a refund of these port charges also.


It is sad, though that so many of us are so stressed out these days that we are unable to handle having even something as small as this undefined.
I don't see anyone not handling this. I don't mean to offend and please don't take this personal but it sounds like something out of "shrink 101 book".
I have a friend that is a shrink and it just sounds like a quote from him.

[mcduck]

THANKS Roadwork. Roadwork is refering to my post #24 apologizing for "going off the deep end" on this one.

And to Shipcafe, the reference to the hotel fire and so on is simply in response to post #35 by sheephugs.

[ryansmemom]

I don't see anyone not handling this. I don't mean to offend and please don't take this personal but it sounds like something out of "shrink 101 book".
I have a friend that is a shrink and it just sounds like a quote from him.


Roadwork: No offence taken. Guilty as charged. Professional Shrink.

Thanks,

Linda :D

[Cruiseoften]

Haven't had time to read all of this but bottom line is -

any cruise Line can discount the cost of a cruise - Port charges, any and all other taxes cannot/are not discounted becuase they're not controlled/set by the Cruise Line.

A port, by-passed due to weather or other conditions, where taxes have been charged, would warrant a refund - the ship didn't 'park' ! - there's no 'parking fee' ! - cruise line has money to refund. A simplification but hopefully you get the gist!

[kryos]

Windfall profit??? Who's paying the "gas bill" for that extra day at sea???
Us. LOL ... a day at sea generally means more money spent on the ship. :) Stores are open ... casino ... etc. :)

The extra revenue should cover a few extra barrels of oil. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[mcduck]

Both sister lines, Princess and Carnival, are resuming their stops at Grand Caymen, but HAL has not joined them. Our TA has not been able to get HAL to confirm what they are doing with the port fees for the GC stop on our W'Dam Christmas cruise.

Wonder why HAL has not joined them in, nor have they been upfront about the port fees for the cancelled stop?

[Esme]

The cruise is still nearly 2 months away, so HAL may decide to stop in GC at Xmas. Friends are going on that cruise and their TA told them they would get the port charges credited to their account.

Check HAL's website again in a couple of weeks and see if it has been changed.

[hdawson]

For now the Port Authority and Tourist Commision is only allowing two ships per day in to Georgetown, beginning next week. I think by Christmas they will probably be up to four ships per day.