Oosterdam and Noro

[mamaofami]

DH just came in and told me he heard a news item on CBS radio news that Holland America's Oosterdam had an outbreak of Norovirus and was turning around and returning to port. Does anyone know anything about this?

Since the ship was just scrubbed down, I would venture just a guess, that it's not passengers that are ill at this point in a new cruise. Perhaps, too many crew.

Would like to know if anyone has heard anything about this.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

DH just came in and told me he heard a news item on CBS radio news that Holland America's Oosterdam had an outbreak of Norovirus and was turning around and returning to port. Does anyone know anything about this?

Since the ship was just scrubbed down, I would venture just a guess, that it's not passengers that are ill at this point in a new cruise. Perhaps, too many crew.

Would like to know if anyone has heard anything about this.
Carol my first thought is that this is day old news and that it was yesterday when it returned to port and had the Super Cleaning. We know how half the time the New organizations get only half the story when it comes to cruise ships but I am going to see if I can find information.

[JimVrhovac]

What everyone failes to realize is that this virus is generally brought to the ship by its passangers and then spread around.

We were on the ship in Feb 08 and they are taking all reasonable precautins to prevent the spread of the virus.

It is up to us as passangers to take precautions on our own to prevent the spread of this virus.

Ruth & Jim (RN's)

[NevadaHiRoller]

Why is it that HAL gets the most cases of the Noro Virus? It really seems to be this way. Anyone know?

[woody73]

Oosterdam news story: http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=9924130

Woody

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Here is another article dated today the one above is dated yesterday. But it basically is repeating OLD News and repeating what was said which is really not a big deal.
http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=9925392&nav=menu1607_2

I am guessing it must be a very SLOOOW News day :rolleyes:

Nothing like the media to make this sound like a horrific problem when they probably will have more sick with this in one high school tomorrow morning.

[mamaofami]

I think you're right, Lisa. It's yesterday's news.

[InTheWASide]

I just love how it says there were 2600 PASSENGERS on the Oosterdam...

Maybe she doesn't have to have her aft extended afterall... LOL

[Oceanwench]

Here is another article dated today the one above is dated yesterday. But it basically is repeating OLD News and repeating what was said which is really not a big deal.
http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=9925392&nav=menu1607_2

I am guessing it must be a very SLOOOW News day :rolleyes:

Nothing like the media to make this sound like a horrific problem when they probably will have more sick with this in one high school tomorrow morning.

First off, I don't think "the media" made this sound like a horrific problem. It was a pretty straightforward brief, not some in-depth report.

Second, San Diego is a port town, and covering the cruising industry -- the good and the bad -- is something the media does. It's the same way here in Florida.

Third, a lot of media will report when norovirus goes through a school district. I've read many stories about it here in South Florida and elsewhere.

[Oceanwench]

I just love how it says there were 2600 PASSENGERS on the Oosterdam...

Maybe she doesn't have to have her aft extended afterall... LOL

My guess is that it was reported that there were about 2,600 PEOPLE aboard [pax and crew] and when it was translated to print, there was no breakdown between crew and the paying passengers.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

First off, I don't think "the media" made this sound like a horrific problem. It was a pretty straightforward brief, not some in-depth report.

Second, San Diego is a port town, and covering the cruising industry -- the good and the bad -- is something the media does. It's the same way here in Florida.

Third, a lot of media will report when norovirus goes through a school district. I've read many stories about it here in South Florida and elsewhere.

My guess is that it was reported that there were about 2,600 PEOPLE aboard [pax and crew] and when it was translated to print, there was no breakdown between crew and the paying passengers.
OW you must work in the news media or be related to someone that is :rolleyes:

First off to go National news with information that is not only not accurate but old news on the NATIONAL Level is the media making it horrific or at least attempting to make it such. There was absolutely no reason to bring forward this story (Like I say it was a very slow news days and they want people to write in about how bad cruise ships are) It is one thing to have a blurb about schools having high illness in you "local section" (we certainly would not hear about it here in Las Vegas and frankly no one would care) but it is a whole different story when it goes National. YES I do think that the New Media is to blame and that there was absolutely no need to have National news tell such a insignificant story that is already OLD News.

[Boatdrill]

I too am concerned about the poor reporting of the Oosterdam. The ship left on Saturday 2/21 for its regular 7 day to Mexico. It returned to San Diego on Saturday 2/28, as scheduled. It did not return after one day, as I heard on the radio (CBS) news just this morning.

The Oosterdam left yesterday, 2/28, as scheduled for Ft. Lauderdale. She sailed at full capacity....just over 1800 pax, many of whom were continuing on for the trans-Atlantic, to Civitavecchia.

The reason why the media got a hold of this story and made such a big deal out of it, was that a couple on board the 2/21-28 cruise were quarantined in the their room by ship's medical staff after complaining of symptoms of the noro-virus. Upset at being quarantined, they called their daughter at home, and told her what was going on. Reportedly they exaggerated the situation onboard, and told her that some people had died on the cruise because of the virus. (To the best of my knowledge, one person had a heart attack, and was taken off the ship when it arrived back in San Diego.)

Either the daughter or the parents called the media, which in turn called HAL in Seattle. HAL immediatley sent someone to San Diego to field questions from the media. He did several interviews for tv and radio from the pier yesterday.

When the Maasdam had a noro-virus outbreak a few weeks ago, it was not in the news, and that outbreak was traced back to the airports...judging by incubation time, and who was initially affected and where they had come from.

[English_in_Spain]

Whatever you say I think you have to admit that, for whatever reason, HAL has more than its fair share of Norovirus.

I don't know if it is because they have an older average passenger age but it cannot be denied that there is a greater risk sailing HAL than other cruise lines.

I love HAL but I am having second thoughts about booking with this cruise line this year.

[NevadaHiRoller]

Whatever you say I think you have to admit that, for whatever reason, HAL has more than its fair share of Norovirus.

I don't know if it is because they have an older average passenger age but it cannot be denied that there is a greater risk sailing HAL than other cruise lines.

I love HAL but I am having second thoughts about booking with this cruise line this year.

I agree and I don't understand why some people get so defensive. The NV is a major problem for HAL ships and HAL ships seem to get more of it than any of the other lines. These are just facts. Why the defensiveness and protectiveness from some? This is not a good thing and I do not understand why HAL gets more of it than other lines.

[LVSue]

Guess what, guys! The news was mostly right! We were on that cruise and about two days in, it went on red alert. According to news reports, 80-106 pax were quarantined. We also think there were many crew sick, including a rumor about the head chef. We never heard exactly how many were sick, but it was enough to cause the red alert. The CDC is contacted after 2% are sick; in this case it was supposed to be 5%.

We weren't allowed to touch ANYTHING! Everything was handed to us (in Lido, for example) by latex-gloved employees: silverware, tea/coffee, etc. I walked around with my hands in my pockets to avoid touching railings and bannisters accidentally. Saw many trays of jello and green apples heading for quarantined cabins.

We did complete the whole cruise as planned (stops in Mazatlan, PV and Cabo), so the ship did not "turn around" and head back to SD; it arrived in SD yesterday (the 28th) as scheduled. And planned to head out for the Panama Canal the same day after massive sanitation procedures. Any news about that cruise?

[NevadaHiRoller]

Guess what, guys! The news was mostly right! We were on that cruise and about two days in, it went on red alert. According to news reports, 80-106 pax were quarantined. We also think there were many crew sick, including a rumor about the head chef. We never heard exactly how many were sick, but it was enough to cause the red alert. The CDC is contacted after 2% are sick; in this case it was supposed to be 5%.

We weren't allowed to touch ANYTHING! Everything was handed to us (in Lido, for example) by latex-gloved employees: silverware, tea/coffee, etc. I walked around with my hands in my pockets to avoid touching railings and bannisters accidentally. Saw many trays of jello and green apples heading for quarantined cabins.

We did complete the whole cruise as planned (stops in Mazatlan, PV and Cabo), so the ship did not "turn around" and head back to SD; it arrived in SD yesterday (the 28th) as scheduled. And planned to head out for the Panama Canal the same day after massive sanitation procedures. Any news about that cruise?

Sorry you had to go through this and I hope they got the ship clean so these folks don't have their cruise ruined. I do not understand why some people act like this is no big deal and it should just be blown off. It is a serious big deal.

[localady]

I just love how it says there were 2600 PASSENGERS on the Oosterdam...

Maybe she doesn't have to have her aft extended afterall... LOL

LOL
Tell me it's true!! ;) :D

We had heard a few crew were ill while we were onboard (or assistant cabin steward) but everything went just fine. Feel bad for the crew, lousy to keep a smile on one's face when not feeling 100%. They are amazing individuals! :D

[grandsix]

Sorry you had to go through this and I hope they got the ship clean so these folks don't have their cruise ruined. I do not understand why some people act like this is no big deal and it should just be blown off. It is a serious big deal.

We agree. It is a big deal, especially when you or a family member come down with the virus. Sadly, the bottom line is many passengers including the seniors (both male and female) DO NOT wash after going to the bathroom etc. Unfortunatly, out of habit, these people do not wash at home or when they eat out. While we love HAL, they do seem to have more noro breakouts.

[LVSue]

What cruise were you on, Sher? Wonder if this all started before ours on the 21st.

[Jemima]

We were in Code Red on our 2/5-20 Zaandam cruise. The CDC report was 85 or 1998 people reported being ill with symptoms being predominately diarrahea and vomiting and with the cause yet to be determined.
My observations:
- The seas were very rough going to Hawaii. The waves were 12-18', winds up to force 10, "swells" up to 30' one night and quite a few with sea sickness. Since anyone who vomited was asked to stay in their cabin (forget how long), that could have included sea sick people.
- I didn't hear of any specific person who was sick with probable noro. Did hear of some who were sea sick.
- The number of people at dinner, around the ship and at events was normal. I didn't notice fewer people anywhere.
- Passenger compliance seemed very high. Nearly everyone was washing carefully, using hand sanitizer etc. This is probably why we were out of code red a couple of days before the end of the cruise.
- There were around 38 (from captain's announcement) when code red went into effect early in this 15 day cruise. I'd guess many of the other 40 some were either already infected or reported belatedly. Anyway things seemed to me very under control.
- Crew were cheerful throughout the cruise and did an excellent job with the Code Red service and extra cleaning.

Not so good:
- The passenger at embarcation telling family and those around her to check no even if you'd had the symptoms.
- The woman who was seen pointedly ignoring the purell. Unfortunately she'd sat by me a couple of days earlier. Fortunately I didn't get noro.
- The few who tried to spread rumours.

[Acetylsleeper]

Carol my first thought is that this is day old news and that it was yesterday when it returned to port and had the Super Cleaning. We know how half the time the New organizations get only half the story when it comes to cruise ships but I am going to see if I can find information.

We did not turn around. At last count (how can you know if it was accurate), the Captain reported a count of at least 90 that were being confined to their cabins.

I wrote a review of my experieneces and observations. I did notice a question in a later post asking why this "seems" to happen to HAL more frequently? Part of my answer addresses this issue.

Peace,
Acetylsleeper

[Acetylsleeper]

What everyone failes to realize is that this virus is generally brought to the ship by its passangers and then spread around.

We were on the ship in Feb 08 and they are taking all reasonable precautins to prevent the spread of the virus.

It is up to us as passangers to take precautions on our own to prevent the spread of this virus.

Ruth & Jim (RN's)

I noticed several breeches in the implementation of the sanitary protocall. Yes it is a passengers responsibilty to wash his or her own hands (drastically reduces potential spread) but it is also the crew's responsibility to make sure they are fully implementing the necessary precautions. If they breech protocall, they further spread the disease (virus).

Acetylsleeper

[LLoyd Bridges]

Just returned from the Feb 21 - 28 sailing on the O. Started the cruise under normal conditions, by day 3 it was announced the N virus has ben detected and they immediately implemented preventative measures. Anyone reporting the illness was visited by the ship's medical staff and then quarantined to their cabins; all food, drinks and silverware were served by gloved crew (including many of the entertainment and spa personnel from time to time since many of the regular crew were busy cleaning); salt/pepper shakers removed from tables; all bread served by crew; water fountains were disconnected; ping pong was put away; daily announcements from the Capt regarding status and spread of the virus with strong caution to wash hands thoroughly and often; pool and gym towels handed out one by one by attendants and the thermal spa and hot tubs were closed for the remainder of the cruise. These precautions slowed down buffet service slightly but it was not really a big deal. We just washed early and often and because the virus is so easily transmitted dermally we were careful what/where we touched. The crew did a great job of constantly disinfecting everything all day long. Chairs, chair backs, handrails, every surface that one would expect to receive frequent contact. With about 100 people affected out of a full ship of passengers and crew that is a low percentage and much less than it could have been had the ship not quickly implemented and maintained precautionary measures. (Although not much consolation for those affected). One of our dining mates did not make it to dinner on the last night. He contacted the ship's medical staff complaining of diarrhea and nausea and was quarantined to his cabin. Today, we saw him during debarkation and he was feeling fine less than 24 hours later. He had been on shore in Mexico and had a drink with ice - could that have been the problem or was it the N virus?? Anyway, the ship handled things extremely well and minimized the impact to the passengers.

[Copper10-8]

Just returned from the Feb 21 - 28 sailing on the O. Started the cruise under normal conditions, by day 3 it was announced the N virus has ben detected and they immediately implemented preventative measures. Anyone reporting the illness was visited by the ship's medical staff and then quarantined to their cabins; all food, drinks and silverware were served by gloved crew (including many of the entertainment and spa personnel from time to time since many of the regular crew were busy cleaning); salt/pepper shakers removed from tables; all bread served by crew; water fountains were disconnected; ping pong was put away; daily announcements from the Capt regarding status and spread of the virus with strong caution to wash hands thoroughly and often; pool and gym towels handed out one by one by attendants and the thermal spa and hot tubs were closed for the remainder of the cruise. These precautions slowed down buffet service slightly but it was not really a big deal. We just washed early and often and because the virus is so easily transmitted dermally we were careful what/where we touched. The crew did a great job of constantly disinfecting everything all day long. Chairs, chair backs, handrails, every surface that one would expect to receive frequent contact. With about 100 people affected out of a full ship of passengers and crew that is a low percentage and much less than it could have been had the ship not quickly implemented and maintained precautionary measures. (Although not much consolation for those affected). One of our dining mates did not make it to dinner on the last night. He contacted the ship's medical staff complaining of diarrhea and nausea and was quarantined to his cabin. Today, we saw him during debarkation and he was feeling fine less than 24 hours later. He had been on shore in Mexico and had a drink with ice - could that have been the problem or was it the N virus?? Anyway, the ship handled things extremely well and minimized the impact to the passengers.

Thanks for your accurate reporting, Mr. Bridges! Norovirus is never a day at the beach but it happens on ships, in the air and on land. When it happens on a dam ship, the ship's crew follows an established protocol and deals with it and hopes that the ship's passengers will follow directions

[hammybee]

I wrote a review of my experieneces and observations. I did notice a question in a later post asking why this "seems" to happen to HAL more frequently? Part of my answer addresses this issue.

Peace,
Acetylsleeper

Were you using a different screen name when you posted that review?

I noticed that your screen name was created today and both of your posts are on this thread.

[billfromtulsa]

Whatever you say I think you have to admit that, for whatever reason, HAL has more than its fair share of Norovirus.

I don't know if it is because they have an older average passenger age but it cannot be denied that there is a greater risk sailing HAL than other cruise lines.

I love HAL but I am having second thoughts about booking with this cruise line this year.

Great! Leaves more room for me.

[Acetylsleeper]

Were you using a different screen name when you posted that review?

I noticed that your screen name was created today and both of your posts are on this thread.


The post (actually it is a review) is awaiting approval from the moderators.

Peace and happy sailing,
Acetylsleeper

[marle7]

The post (actually it is a review) is awaiting approval from the moderators.

Peace and happy sailing,
Acetylsleeper

Do you think you could post your review here for those of us who can't wait for said approval? :)

[MARIMART]

:D:D and perhaps a better upgrade.............lol
:):):)
Great! Leaves more room for me.

[ginam650]

My parents are on this ship sailing through the PC to Florida. My mom had called while they were waiting in the terminal to get on the ship. She said they had posted some signs in the terminal to wash hands frequently, and she said purell was everywhere, but nothing was said about the ship being infected with the noro at least in the terminal. Maybe they were told once on board. They arrive in Puerto Vallarta on Tuesday, and I'll get an update...if she calls.

[Boatdrill]

My parents are on this ship sailing through the PC to Florida. My mom had called while they were waiting in the terminal to get on the ship. She said they had posted some signs in the terminal to wash hands frequently, and she said purell was everywhere, but nothing was said about the ship being infected with the noro at least in the terminal. Maybe they were told once on board.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this could be.

Upon arriving at the terminal, each passenger (cabin) was given a letter from the Captain of the Oosterdam outliing what had happened, the steps being taken to clean the ship, and in the final paragraph, the option for cancelling the cruise. If passengers some how missed getting letter at their arrival, they were given one at the check in counter.

The ony signs asking you to wash your hands are in the restrooms. They are not posted in the waiting area of the terminal.

Boarding was delayed until 1:30 pm, and at check-in, each guest was urged to go outside the terminal (rather than wait inside where it would get crowded) and use either the complimentary shuttle to Seaport Village, or go and have a bite to eat. They were also provided with a list of nearby restaurants. They were also given a boarding number, and given an approximate time that the number would be called later that afternoon.

With all due respect to your parents, it is virtually impossible for any passenger embarking that day and sitting in the crowded terminal, not to have known about the situation onboard.

[ginam650]

I was going by what my parents had told me when they were waiting in the terminal to board the ship.

[innlady1]

On our 2/8 cruise on the Noordam, we had 18' to 20' seas on the 1st and last sea days (in and out of the Northeast). Couple that with going into Code Red on Day 4.

Many on the ship (passengers) felt that it was brought onboard in NYC because of the timing.

But, everyone dealt with it and had a wonderful cruise in spite of it all.

[smileycruiser2007]

Lloyd Bridges explained very accurately what took place on the February 21 Mexican Riviera cruise. I was also on this cruise, and was really impressed at how hard the entire crew worked to control the spread of the virus--and remained cheerful and pleasant while working even harder than usual.They really did their best to make sure the passengers had the best possible time under the circumstances. They treated noro victims without charge, and brough unlimited room service to those who were quarantined for 24 hours so they wouldn't spread the virus.

The Captain held a Q and A session on the last day of the cruise and explained how the disease is spread, especially in close quarters such as nursing homes,and that it is not a killer disease. It is, however, very bad while you have it. Very few crew members were affected, and no children. It seemed to affect those over 55, and the total on Friday was 94 out of over 1800 passengers. The Captain went on to say that research showed that most people washed their hands thoroughly only once a day, which is really scary. He was very open about the situation and what was being done about it, including frequent contact with the CDC.

Once we returned to San Diego, a contractor was to come aboard to perform special sanitization. Although I am no infectious disease expert, I do not see what more HAL could have done.

[JPSnipper]

I was also on the 2/21 sailing along with my wife and 19mo daughter. This was my first sailing under code red and felt it was only a minor inconvenience. The only noticeable difference was having to wait a bit in the Lido. As far as I was concerned, this was a normal sailing with no change in the itinerary. I was surprised at all the media reports I heard when I got home. They seemed incomplete and inaccurate. One said the ship had to turn around. Frankly, I was baffled by why anyone would think this was news worthy.

[COCat]

We were on the Oosterdam last week, and my DW did get sick. One day of quarantined in the cabin, and then she was fine. Not that big of an issue. The Noro Virus is a very, very common, you just don’t hear much about people catching it. Most people don’t realize they have had it. Upset stomach and/or some diarrhea.

The crew did a very good job a sanitizing the ship. A few incontinences but manageable.

They do not sanitize people until after they have a problem. They have Purell dispensers all over this ship but no really used them until after the outbreak. Then HAL had staff people all over to make sure you used it or the staff person would give you some.

On NCL, you cannot get on the gangway to the ship without having your hands sprayed. They have cruise staff all over the ship that give you a spray of purell, or see that you use a one of the dispensers. If HAL tried that I think they would have fewer problems.

[CaliforniaAC]

Whatever you say I think you have to admit that, for whatever reason, HAL has more than its fair share of Norovirus.

I don't know if it is because they have an older average passenger age but it cannot be denied that there is a greater risk sailing HAL than other cruise lines.

I love HAL but I am having second thoughts about booking with this cruise line this year.


Here's the link to the CDC reports:

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm#2009

2009 so far seems to be HAL's year, but the year is still young.

IMHO I thinks there's probably a little Noro on each cruise. I believe the CDC rules are 3% of passengers or crew with symptoms have to report it to them. A ship carrying 3000 people would be about 90 sick, compared to 54 sick on an average HAL size ship.

Best bet is to protect yourself as well as you can. We bring sanitizing wipes in a baggie and wipe down our room- things like the phone, closet doors, door handles, etc. We also wash our hands with hot soapy water every time we come back to the room, as well as just before we leave, and try not to use the public restrooms if at all possible. We always use the Purell both entering and exiting the eating areas. It's just common sense really.

HAL or any other cruise line.

[Sundagger]

IMHO I thinks there's probably a little Noro on each cruise. I believe the CDC rules are 3% of passengers or crew with symptoms have to report it to them. A ship carrying 3000 people would be about 90 sick, compared to 54 sick on an average HAL size ship.


Right, I don't think most people realize that there is "a little Noro on each cruise". Just because a ship isn't listed on the CDC list, doesn't mean that there was NO Norovirus on board - it just means that it didn't reach reportable levels. Of all the thousands of cruisers each week on the 14 HAL ships, almost none catch Norovirus.

I would be surprised at anyone cancelling a cruise at the port because the PREVIOUS cruise had an outbreak. The ship has been super-cleaned according to CDC protocol between the groups of cruisers.

[Boatdrill]

I would be surprised at anyone cancelling a cruise at the port because the PREVIOUS cruise had an outbreak.

I think about 99.5% still sail.

Of those that do cancel, usually it's because they have health issues (heart problems, depressed immune systems) and are not willing to take the risk.

[FireIce0010]

Why is it that HAL gets the most cases of the Noro Virus? It really seems to be this way. Anyone know?

I have to say that I have noticed this also. Not sure why though.

[sizzle_sisters]

~~ come on get this baby cleaned out.... give er a good blow in the Atlantic, she's going in for a butt lift then we will be a sailing~~~