Why are dining choices closed so early?

[furf_n_slo]

Last week I booked our cruise for Jan 2010 and the only choice was open seating or be waitlisted for late upper dining.

I chose to be waitlisted. The paperwork I have says Late upper waitlisting, but the HAL website it says open seating confirmed.

How could dining preferences be closed 11 months in advance?

[Roz]

A group (or groups) on onboard that have a block of rooms reserved and want to eat together?

Roz

[foodsvcmgr]

The reason is, despite what HAL might try to claim, is that a lot of folks
still want fixed dining and therefore the upper level in the dining room
fills frequently very far ahead.

If having fixed dining is a deal breaker for you, you might want to consider
changing to a sailing where it can be confirmed up front, as a "waitlist"
may or may not materialize. If it does, it probably won't be until the time of final payment when someone who booked far ahead will opt to cancel just before penalties accrue. At that point, it may be too late for you to
change dates.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Are you on the Westerdam for Jan 17, 2010??

If so there is a Jazz group listed for that date.

[furf_n_slo]

Are you on the Westerdam for Jan 17, 2010??

If so there is a Jazz group listed for that date.


No, we're sailing on the Eurodam on Jan 9th.

It seemed that almost all the cruises I research had the same choices. Are they closing them hoping to push the open dining?

[Susie51]

Thank you OP for the question. I have often wondered the same thing. DH and I found out on our cruise in Dec. we like AYWD. I hope it works out for you.

[rochelle_s]

I too feel the cruise lines close these out early or waitlist them because they want to push folks to the anytime dining as opposed to truly 'as you wish'. The corporate 'line' you will hear when questioning this is that ' passangers truly do prefer the anytime seating'. Well if this were true then the open seating would be closed or waitlisted and I have never once heard or read of this happening.

My intent is not to start a debate of any kind as many people do have a preference for anytime dining. There are also many others who have been 'forced' into the situation and have found that they did actually enjoy this flexibility. These boards, although obviously not representative of all cruise passangers, should give a good indication of what the average cruiser is looking for. From the discussions on here it appears that there are a great number of passangers who prefer the traditonal fixed seating dining idea, myself being one of them.

What I would really like is an honest answer to the question of why the push to open seating? It cannot be because it is what the people want as the early closure of options, the waitlists and discussions among cruisers clearly states otherwise. If it is a matter of economics I can understand this. If it is meant to make things easier on the crew I could understand this? If it is meant to move people throughout the ship and on to other venues (ie. revenue generationing) I can understand this as well.
What I don't understand is why they cannot just give a forthright and honest answer.

So if anyone at corporate HAL is reading.....Why the push to open seating?

Rochelle

[Pokeynose]

We like early fixed seating because both DH and I are diabetic. He is on insulin and if we had to wait too long for anytime seating that could mess him up. He sure doesn't want to take his insulin at the table:(. We booked last July for next Sept., we are waitlisted so we'll see what happens. Not happy about this as I'm sure many are if they prefer a certain seating.

[furf_n_slo]

My biggest concern is that we are traveling with family of about 10-12 people, maybe more. The last time we had anytime dining (not on HAL) we had to wait 30 sometimes 45 minutes for a table.

[hammybee]

Cruise lines are keeping their options open for future group bookings, VIPS, top producing travel agencies and the unknown preferences of those who will book Deluxe Suites.

Those who buy more and/or pay more have a greater likelihood of getting what they want in almost all business models.

It seems to me that most ealry bookers tend to eventually clear the wait list and get their dining preference, most of the time.

Having said this, there is no way any cruise line can accommodate all preferences, all the time unless the ship is capable of seating all passengers in a single seating and then either you adjust to that time or do without din-din.

[lorekauf]

For me, at least up to this point, not getting early traditional is a deal breaker. I will not put my name on a wait list. There are other cruise lines out there and if HAL won't accomodate me someone else will.

[oysterdam]

It seems to me that most ealry bookers tend to eventually clear the wait list and get their dining preference, most of the time.



Hammybee, how do you know this? Do you have access to the dining manifests for HAL?

[hammybee]

[quote=rochelle_s;18408272]

These boards, although obviously not representative of all cruise passangers, should give a good indication of what the average cruiser is looking for. From the discussions on here it appears that there are a great number of passangers who prefer the traditonal fixed seating dining idea, myself being one of them. /quote]

I think I have read every single post on this topic. Preferences, fixed versus open, seating seem to be split, right down the middle.

This board attracts a lot of posters who have serious time invested with HAL and fixed seating and it is understandable that they prefer things the way they were. They also tend to be some of the most articulate, helpful and prolific posters, too.

Unfortunately, those who post frequently to this board, regardless of where we dine, probably could not fill one ship. There's more than a million unknown annual passengers , out there. Only the comment cards, over time, across all sailings could tell you how most, feel about anything.

[hammybee]

Hammybee, how do you know this? Do you have access to the dining manifests for HAL?

You are right, sir. I based this only on what I read here, which is not representative of all experiences. :o

[kryos]

How could dining preferences be closed 11 months in advance?It's not. HAL just leaves some flexibility for themselves in case any large groups book the cruise and require seating together. Groups get priority and often their nature requires that everyone eat together in the same area of the dining room. Some large groups could actually fill up the capacity of an entire fixed seating time. So, HAL doesn't confirm single passengers until closer to the sailing date when they know just how many groups have to be accommodated and at what seatings.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Unfortunately, those who post frequently to this board, regardless of where we dine, probably could not fill one ship. There's more than a million unknown annual passengers , out there. Only the comment cards, over time, across all sailings could tell you how most, feel about anything.
The story I heard ... though unconfirmed ... is that flexible dining is the preferred choice two to one over fixed seating. But that will, of course, vary by cruise. If it's a longer sailing, with a lot of older, more traditional type cruisers, then fixed dining will be far more in demand. But on shorter sailings that have a lot of families onboard, you'll see As You Wish as clearly the more popular choice.

A dining room manager told me candidly that he wishes HAL would go 100% fixed seating on long cruises because it was a nightmare for him trying to accommodate all of the people who wanted fixed seating on those sailings. But he said that on the seven to ten-day sailings, As you Wish was very, very popular.

Believe me, HAL would have never implemented As You Wish Dining if there weren't quite a number of people demanding it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

So if anyone at corporate HAL is reading.....Why the push to open seating?

It's not a "push" to open seating. It's just that HAL needs some flexibility since they have no idea a year out what groups are going to book the sailing and need those traditional dining slots. Sometimes groups need to be seated together in the dining room for various reasons, and groups do get priority. Would you rather HAL confirm you for early traditional only to get onboard and find out you have flexible dining? Also, what about suite passengers? They get priority for their dining requests too. What happens if there are two groups comprising maybe a third of the passengers onboard and they both want early seating? Then there may only be a few slots left which suite passengers booking later request. Now, you've been confirmed for early seating, but have to be moved. HAL has disappointed you by promising something they now can't deliver. Far better to put you on the waitlist for the traditional seating and then make you happy by switching you to your preferred fixed dining time.

So that's why HAL confirms you for As You Wish. It doesn't mean you'll necessarily have to eat in that dining room and it's not them "pushing" you into As You Wish Dining.

If I were at HAL Corporate, that's exactly how I would handle it too. Where I think HAL made their big mistake is in trying to offer both methods of dining in the first place. Frankly, I would have pushed for one way or the other and avoided this whole problem. Some cruise lines can offer multiple dining venues simply because their ships were built for that. HAL has a lot of older ships in the fleet that were never built with various dining models in mind. If I were a corporate bigwig at HAL, I would have offered one format of dining ... whichever one their surveys tell them is the overwhelming choice among the majority of the passengers ... and then only offer multiple options on those particular ships in the fleet that can accommodate them ... such as maybe the Vista and Signature Class vessels. HAL would have avoided a lot of headaches that way.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[twinkletoes4445]

The story I heard ... though unconfirmed ... is that flexible dining is the preferred choice two to one over fixed seating.

I can't even believe I am saying this (since I was one of the loudest voicing my objections to AYWD), but we loved AYWD and would never opt for fixed dining on our future cruises. The flexibility to dine when we wanted to dine was nice. We only tried the AYWD once...only because we enjoyed the Lido so much. The service was wonderful and our waiter told us if we came back to ask for him. We also did not have to wait for a table. I think we ate around 6:30, so maybe that's why there wasn't a crowd, but it all worked fine for us.

We also ate in the Lido a lot. I pretty much knew we'd like that option, but even that turned out to be even more enjoyable that we thought it would. We got to know the staff there just like we did with the dining room staff.

It would also not surprise me a bit if HAL is doing exactly what you're saying with the dining times. :)

[Cruzman]

For us, early traditional dining is definitely a deal breaker. On our last cruise on HAL, we were booked in a deluxe verandah suite, so we had dining priority. We booked our next HAL cruise on the Ryndam 18 months out in order to get confirmed early traditional dining, which was confirmed in writing at the time of booking. We were forced to accept anytime dining on the Star Princess last year and we hated it! It won't happen again! If I can't get the dining times I prefer on HAL, I'll find a cruise line that will accommodate my needs.

[irishjim]

For us, early traditional dining is definitely a deal breaker. On our last cruise on HAL, we were booked in a deluxe verandah suite, so we had dining priority. We booked our next HAL cruise on the Ryndam 18 months out in order to get confirmed early traditional dining, which was confirmed in writing at the time of booking. We were forced to accept anytime dining on the Star Princess last year and we hated it! It won't happen again! If I can't get the dining times I prefer on HAL, I'll find a cruise line that will accommodate my needs.
DW and I prefer fixed dining and have always got it,when I book a cruise far in advance and I am told it is waitlisted,my reply has always been that
if I cant have my request filled I tell them to cancel the booking and I get my request.Works every time for me,luck of the Irish:D:D:D
BTW I agree with you
Jim.
17 cruises with HAL and counting

[ooops]

Last week I booked our cruise for Jan 2010 and the only choice was open seating or be waitlisted for late upper dining.

I chose to be waitlisted. The paperwork I have says Late upper waitlisting, but the HAL website it says open seating confirmed.

How could dining preferences be closed 11 months in advance?


We're in the same situation. We got our travel documents which state waitlisted dining. (However, we booked our cruise about 8 weeks prior to sailing so we really couldn't expect to have confirmed seating.) Anyhow, from what I've read on other threads, if we have open seating, we can make reservations daily for the AYWD venue. It'll be a bit of a hassle, but I'm willing to do it every morning to ensure that we don't have to wait 30-45mins every evening for dinner. (This might even be advantageous on the days we have late port departures and we can enjoy having dinner a little later than we would if we had fixed early dining). Have you heard of this? Would that help you at all? However, in your situation, I would be quite disappointed not to have confirmed dinner seating when booking 11 months prior to sailing.

[kryos]

I can't even believe I am saying this (since I was one of the loudest voicing my objections to AYWD), but we loved AYWD and would never opt for fixed dining on our future cruises.
And, my friend, you are not the only one. Same here. I hated the whole thought of AYWD because I travel solo and figured I'd wind up eating alone all of the time ... something I'd rather not do on vacation. But when I saw how AYWD was implemented, and actually went to the dining room a couple of times as a solo on my last cruise, I realized that AYWD was great. It gave me the flexibility to eat at different times each day, depending on my schedule for the day, and was great if I wanted to eat with a friend too.

Especially as of the past couple of years, I've noticed that service in the dining room has gotten very slow. As a single I would always book large tables so that I could meet others at dinner. I figured the larger the table, the better chance of dining with someone I hit it off with. But the downside of that strategy has been that the speed of the meal will always be determined by the slowest eater or by the person who orders/eats the most. At one table for twelve our dinners were routinely taking over 2.5 hours each night ... something that I just can't deal with. So AYWD has worked out very nicely for me and it'll be my choice on all future cruises.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

My biggest concern is that we are traveling with family of about 10-12 people, maybe more. The last time we had anytime dining (not on HAL) we had to wait 30 sometimes 45 minutes for a table.I would think AYWD would work out great with a group of this size. Just call each morning and request a large table just for your group at whatever time you need it for that day. There aren't that many people traveling in groups of that size, so you shouldn't have any problem at all.

And the nice thing about AYWD over traditional is that you can vary the time based on what you are doing that day. If you're gonna be in port and getting back late, you can choose the eat later that night. If you are onboard the ship all day, you might choose to dine earlier. Can't do that in fixed dining.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

We were forced to accept anytime dining on the Star Princess last year and we hated it! It won't happen again! If I can't get the dining times I prefer on HAL, I'll find a cruise line that will accommodate my needs.Just a thought ...

Just because you hated it on Star Princess doesn't mean you'll hate it on HAL. I would give it a try before deciding whether it is right for you or not. HAL might handle it differently than Princess, and it could work out that you really like it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Pokeynose]

In my post #8 in this thread I said we booked our cruise 11 mos. ahead and we are waitlisted. I will be calling HAL tomorrow to find out why. We are in a Deluxe Verandah Suite, I don't know if that has any bearing. There is no way we can wait more than 30min. in line.:( I don't mean to sound like we are better than anyone else but 11 mo. before our cruise I would think we would have gotten the seating we asked for.

[Bramcruiser]

While I'll never say "never" in regards to AYWD I must admit I'd still pick fixed dining if given the choice - at least at this point. We much prefer eating late so the traditional late dining times suit us nicely and it does help to have a regular table and socialize with a group of people that become your family for the next few days - okay, assuming there is no table from the hot place but that has yet to happen to me (Strangely:D!)

I booked my upcoming Maasdam cruise over a year in advance and had no problem with late fixed dining - it was available and I booked it. I consider myself one of the lucky ones.

The one thing I don't like about this AYWD is the idea you either call in every single morning to make a reservation for that evening or wait in line when you decide to show up for dining. Okay, dependent on the crowds and time of day you may or may not face a line up going into dinner. However, I think having to make a reservation each morning as part of your routine just to secure a spot to eat that evening rather silly. Just my opinion.

Would I stop sailing HAL if they went 100% AYWD? Probably not. Am I secretly wishing that it fails - likely:o! However, its doubtful its going away and many have voiced their approval of it.

I like the flexibility of choosing when to eat but would rather AYWD keep assigned tables.

Oh well, sticking with fixed for now but am interested to see what happens on the Maasdam this summer.

David

[Pokeynose]

I just called HAL and we were cleared for early dining seating.:) This was what I was hoping for.

[michmike]

Have no idea whether this is accurate or not, but one of the couples in our roll call group on Westerdam last month said that they have had no problem getting late fixed seating on Carnival when booking a year or more in advance and he can't understand why that isn't possible on HAL. Now I don't follow Carnival at all and neglected to ask him if Carnival does the AYWD thing, so that may be the explanation. At any rate, he was headed back to Carnival as he wasn't happy w/ AYWD.

I understand the need to keep some flexibility as to groups, but it seems to me that at least PART of the fixed dining reservation unhappiness (at least for early bookers) would be to be able to guarantee them that they would have fixed dining BUT that the option of whether that was late or early would have to wait til closer to sailing and be dependent on HAL's needs. I know that will still not satisfy everyone, but seems to me that those that are just dead set against AYWD would see such a program as better than nothing.

[Roz]

I was on a Carnival ship in January and they still had the traditional early and late sittings.

Roz

[Pam in CA]

Just because you hated it on Star Princess doesn't mean you'll hate it on HAL. I would give it a try before deciding whether it is right for you or not. HAL might handle it differently than Princess, and it could work out that you really like it. I agree with Rita 100%. I've tried Anytime dining on two Princess cruises (the Grand and Caribbean Princess) and hated it; we had long waits, sometimes up to 45 minutes, even with a reservation for a specific time. I've switched from traditional to AYWD twice now on HAL and loved it. Only once (a formal night) did we have any kind of a wait and even then, it was only 15 minutes. Otherwise, we were seated right away even though we arrived between 7:30 - 8PM. I would definitely do AYWD again on HAL, never again on Princess.

[twinkletoes4445]

And, my friend, you are not the only one. Same here. I hated the whole thought of AYWD because I travel solo and figured I'd wind up eating alone all of the time ... something I'd rather not do on vacation. But when I saw how AYWD was implemented, and actually went to the dining room a couple of times as a solo on my last cruise, I realized that AYWD was great. It gave me the flexibility to eat at different times each day, depending on my schedule for the day, and was great if I wanted to eat with a friend too.

Especially as of the past couple of years, I've noticed that service in the dining room has gotten very slow. As a single I would always book large tables so that I could meet others at dinner. I figured the larger the table, the better chance of dining with someone I hit it off with. But the downside of that strategy has been that the speed of the meal will always be determined by the slowest eater or by the person who orders/eats the most. At one table for twelve our dinners were routinely taking over 2.5 hours each night ... something that I just can't deal with. So AYWD has worked out very nicely for me and it'll be my choice on all future cruises.

Blue skies ...

--rita

I can see why solo cruisers would like AWYD...from what you posted. :)

We found that we didn't feel rushed at all when returning to the ship on port days knowing that we could dine when and where we wanted. That had been an issue on our previous cruises. When we had fixed seating, we needed to either be in the dining room at a specific time or let someone know if we weren't going to be eating in the dining room. With AYWD you can dine whenever you want...and if you don't want to eat in the dining room, you don't have to notify the staff concerning your change in dinner plans. We loved that...and honestly, I hadn't even thought of these things prior to our cruise.

There were many nights that we didn't want a multicourse meal. We almost always started the day with breakfast, and usually had a late lunch, so many times a salad from the Lido or something off the room service menu worked for us. One night we had appetizers delivered to our cabin at sail away and after the appetizers and a couple of glasses of wine we weren't hungry for dinner.

The time issue was another problem for us. We did not want to be in the dining room for 2.5 hours. The only time I can see this being something we'd be interested in is if we were with a group of friends, or family...but otherwise, I don't want any part of spending that much time in the dining room, especially every night.

That's another reason we tried the Lido for dinner...the time issue. I can't tell you how much we loved dining in the Lido. Many times we dined alone, but we also dined with other CC members. We liked the flexibility...and dining in the Lido for dinner was really a relaxing and fun experience.

It's great that HAL offers so many dining options. :)

[Two@Sea]

I just called HAL and we were cleared for early dining seating.:) This was what I was hoping for.

Deluxe Suite guests receive their preferred dining times, whenever possible (you mentioned your cabin category in a previous post). Enjoy your cruise!

[lorekauf]

I would definitely do AYWD again on HAL, never again on Princess.
At least you get the choice on Princess without having to book a year out. I've never had an issue getting traditional on Princess. That said I book at least 6 months in advance.

[kryos]

In my post #8 in this thread I said we booked our cruise 11 mos. ahead and we are waitlisted. I will be calling HAL tomorrow to find out why. We are in a Deluxe Verandah Suite, I don't know if that has any bearing. There is no way we can wait more than 30min. in line.:( I don't mean to sound like we are better than anyone else but 11 mo. before our cruise I would think we would have gotten the seating we asked for.If you're in a deluxe veranda suite, then you shouldn't have to deal with being waitlisted. Your TA should have "pulled rank" with HAL and gotten you your preferred seating. Priority for dining reservations is a perk of those suites.

And don't worry about what people think ... you pay for that priority for dining reservations perk and are entitled to use it.

Blue skies ...

--rita