Formal night attire on HAL ships

[TorontoTL]

I've never cruised with HAL and was wondering how dressed up I will need to be on formal nights. I don't like wearing suits and was wondering if it would be frowned upon if I wore a dress shirt, tie and dress pants to dinner on formal nights. Sorry if anyone has asked this recently.

[Esme]

You will definitely need a jacket. Formal night on HAL is fairly formal. A lot of men will be in tuxes and suits and sport jackets. They ask you to wear a jacket on informal nights also - tie not required. If you think you will feel out of place without a jacket, you could eat dinner in the Lido.

You may find it nice to dress up for the formal nights.

I know I will get flammed on this comment, because there are some on here that don't believe in formal night and will probably tell you that you don't need a jacket, but I think a man looks so smart dressed properly on such a night, especially if his female companion is all dressed up. :)

[Cruiseoften]

I've never cruised with HAL and was wondering how dressed up I will need to be on formal nights. I don't like wearing suits and was wondering if it would be frowned upon if I wore a dress shirt, tie and dress pants to dinner on formal nights. Sorry if anyone has asked this recently.

:eek: Well!!!!!!!!!!dress shirt, tie and dress pants to dinner????? seems to me you know what 'formal night' means - I'd definitely say a jacket is necessary and would make you feel (what shall I say?) more finished looking! :)

Failing that, maybe room service would be in order on a formal night - within the confines of your cabin, attire may be as you wish.

The Maitre'd is the determining factor as to enforcement of the dining room dress code. For the benefit of all guests, I think the cruise Line's rules should be enforced.

Have a great cruise! :)

[Peggy Sue]

Our only HAL experience .. Zuiderdam last May. Didn't see anyone without a jacket. About 50-60% of the men were in a tux, the remainder in a suit. I don't think I saw anyone in a sport coat, but maybe there were a few. Informal nights, lots of sports jackets with polo shirts. A few men wore suits.

DH brought along his tux..and I really appreciated how hansome he looked on formal nights...It was enjoyable evening.

Most folks stayed dressed in their formal attire the entire evening. Didn't really see anyone dressed in casual attire except up by the pool that evening.

Hope this helps. Have a great cruise!!

Peggy Sue

[jhannah]

Ditto. HAL tends to be a bit more conforming on formal night that some other lines. I would surely wear a suit and tie at the very least on formal night. Or, as others have suggested, eat elsewhere that evening.

[superstein61]

I've never cruised with HAL and was wondering how dressed up I will need to be on formal nights. I don't like wearing suits and was wondering if it would be frowned upon if I wore a dress shirt, tie and dress pants to dinner on formal nights. Sorry if anyone has asked this recently.
Ahhh - here we go again.

IGNORE THE Dress Police folks here who get so bent out of shape over what others wear, it isn't funny. You sound like you will look quite presentable. SKIP THE JACKET. in 99% of the cases, no one on board will care. However occassionally you will find someone who looks down upon you because you don't meet their standards of attire. Ignore them and enjoy yourself !!!

BTW - I rebelled at Formal Night on the Zuiderdam this summer - and had no problem at all. And I didn't even wear a tie. One night, a fancy Cuban shirt - the other, a fancy Mexican shirt.

OK - now get ready for the dress police here to start bashing me for my views :D

OH - and ignore those who want to shun you to the Lido or worse yet, make you eat in your room !!!

[Ziggy7]

I agree, you will need a jacket, my DH thought he wouldnt like wearing a suit either, but he did and he said he was glad I pushed the issue :) I wanted the Aniversary Photo's :)

[superstein61]

Oh, TorontoTL - one other thing - Keep in mind that many of the responses you get here will be from women who don't have to wear a Monkey Suit and Tie noose ;) around their neck.

They pretty much will all tell you to wear the suit or jacket.

As a male who like you, doesn't like wearing a suit - ignore them and do what is comfortable for you !!!

ENJOY (and duck the oncoming flames)

[ColoradoJuli]

Superstien - not trying to flame, but...

Yea, I know the 'monkey suits' are uncomfortable, but have you ever tried to eat with panty hose squeezing everything below your waist into a night 'tight' package, and then a bustiere sqeezeing everything above your waiste in an upward position while enclosing your ribs into your lungs. Then we pull our hair up, just to add to the upward 'party'. Then we add these crazy little items that put us up on top of our toes were we get cramps in our calves. I promise our 'monkey' outfit is just as uncomfortable if not more than yours. We just like to torture you. :D Just haven't figured out why we do it to ourselves. :o

I think I am headed over to the Wind Jammer sight ;)

[RevNeal]

In reviewing the remarks, thus far, I note that superstein61 has weighed in on the subject with what has become his mantra: "Ignore them [the "Dress Police folks"] and enjoy yourself !!!" This may come as a shock to some, but I tend to agree with the general attitude, if not its context. While I agree that what other passengers think about what one wears is really not all that important, it is important what the Cruse Line and, most especially, the Matre’ D, think. Allow me to illustrate.

One month ago I was on the lovely and gracious Zaandam. At the table directly behind me there was a gentleman I have come to think of as superstein61's twin; he had several run-ins with the Matre’ D over his stubborn unwillingness to abide by the minimal standards of the Line's published Dress Code. The very first casual night he came into the dining room dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and was quickly informed that he would have to return to his cabin and change into slacks. On the first formal night came dressed in slacks and a button-down sports shirt -- no jacket, no tie. He would have been fine on a casual night, but not on formal night. The Matre’ D came over while their drink orders were being taken, knelt down next to the guy, and I could hear him say in a quiet yet respectful tone, “Sir, tonight is formal night.”

“Yes?” the man replied; his tone contained more than just a hint of daring.

“I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to return to your cabin and retrieve a jacket and tie.”

“But the dress code says that’s just a suggestion.”

“No, sir. What’s suggested is a tuxedo; what is required is a jacket and tie.”

“Required?”

“Correct, sir. That is what is printed in your Daily Program.”

“What if I refuse?”

“Then, sir, you will not be served.”

“You’re kidding me.”

“No, sir, I'm not kidding you.” The Matre’ D then stood up straight and walked away, apparently stopping to inform the area supervisor of the situation.

After a few minutes, which he spent discussing the situation with his wife and his companions in increasingly heated tones, the fellow got up and left. Less than 10 minutes later he showed up in a sports jacket, white shirt, and tie. Nothing else was said, either by the Matre’ D or by his table companions, and on the subsequent 3 formal nights he was attired properly. The same can't be said for the informal nights -- he pushed the envelope there, too, and got called on it the second informal night -- but that's another story.

This is not snobbery, nor is it a flame; it's simply a FACT. Some of Holland America's Matre'D are hard-liners when it comes to the published dress code, and some are not. In two HAL cruises Superstein61 has been fortunate to either be on a ship where the Matre'D didn't care, or were he simply wasn't spotted. In the case of his cruise on the Zuiderdam, it's almost certainly the first situation. Good for him ... I'm glad he wasn't embarrassed in front of his table mates and family, like the fellow on the Zaandam just last month. I have taken 10 HAL cruises ... on 4 (including last month) I have actually seen people being turned away from the main dining room for being improperly attired. I will admit that I have seen at least as many occasions where people came to dinner on formal night dressed in less-than the Cruise Line's standards and they were not asked to change. This was especially true in Alaska and, once, on the Maasdam in the Caribbean. However, there have been several occasions when I've overheard people talking about it happening at their table, or to them, or to a member of their party. For instance, on the Rotterdam V I overheard an argument at breakfast about an incident in the main dining room the night before: a fellow had refused to dress properly and had been refused service. When he complained his way up to the Hotel Manager he was informed that he would be expected to abide by the dress code or he could eat in the Lido or in his cabin. It was interesting to hear his outrage ... and even more interesting to hear his wife shoot back with a rather elaborate "I told you so."

To put it VERY simply, Holland America outlines its dress code (for men) thusly:

Formal Nights: jacket and tie required (Tuxedo or business suit suggested)
Informal Nights: jacket required (tie optional)
Casual Night: long pants required (no shorts)

They have a more elaborate statement in the "Know Before You Go" booklet, and on their website, but that pretty much says it all.

[Roboat]

I've never cruised with HAL and was wondering how dressed up I will need to be on formal nights. I don't like wearing suits and was wondering if it would be frowned upon if I wore a dress shirt, tie and dress pants to dinner on formal nights. Sorry if anyone has asked this recently.
Frowned upon? Man, you ain't even on the boat yet and look at all the frowns! ;)
Since you asked, you sound like you are a polite considerate person. If you don't wear at least a jacket and tie on formal night, you will be one of the very, very few who do not.
Sounds like you have a suit, so you wouldn't need to buy one, and you can probably wear the suit jacket with slacks and polo on informal nights (which are not the same as casual nights, which do not require a jacket.). You might want to pick up a white shirt with the collar a just little too big so it isn't tight.
Oh, when evaluating Superstein's suggestions. you may wish to consider that he has tiny transmitter in his head implanted by the CIA which transmits Ashley Simpson songs 24/7 (thus he is always lip-synching them, even at dinner) and wears a bikini top and lederhosen on formal nights.:p

[TedC]

There are cruise lines that aren't as strict about dress codes as HAL.

It doesn't take too much research to find which of these lines would be a better "fit" for those who don't like HAL's dress code.

There's something for almost everyone - even for those who seem to have a need to draw attention to themselves.

[Giorgi-one]

Oh, TorontoTL - one other thing - Keep in mind that many of the responses you get here will be from women who don't have to wear a Monkey Suit and Tie noose ;) around their neck.

They pretty much will all tell you to wear the suit or jacket.

As a male who like you, doesn't like wearing a suit - ignore them and do what is comfortable for you !!!

ENJOY (and duck the oncoming flames)

I don't understand why people feel uncomfortable in a tuxedo or a suit. Just buy one that fits properly.

TotontoTL:

The best thing you can do is to ignore the advice given by Superstein!

[dot73]

Would you go to a fancy restaurant or an evening wedding reception, or a banquet, without a tie or in shorts? Why would you want to go casual to formal night? All ships now have alternative dining so nobody is forced to eat in the formal dining room. One of the reasons I love cruising is that it's one of the last "civilized" ways of travel. HAL spells out their dress code ahead of time; if you don't want to conform to it, don't go. They have the right to set out the rules, you have the right not to cruise on HAL.

[doone]

Revneal, I am so happy to hear that the Matre'd, very nicely and respectfully, asked that gentleman to dress appropriately. I hope I have him on my cruises next March. I agree with the others here, ignore the comments about wearing what you want on formal evenings on HAL and avoid being embarassed.

[xpcdoojk]

Grow up and wear a suit or better yet a tuxedo. JMHO.:D

NCL has freestyle cruising and you would never ever have to dress up.:D

jc

PS compared to RCI I am sure HAL is much more formal, and even on RCI most men wear a suit or Tuxedo. Especially on longer cruises.

[lknick]

The confrontational attitude expressed by SuperXXXX [I have another name for him] and some others is the reason I have decided not to participate in this board. Encountering him and others like him, my next scheduled
cruise will not be on HAL.

For the record, from what I hear from Seattle, HAL’s management has decided to enforce the dress code.

[doone]

Iknick, yahoo, its about time they enforced the dress code and Revneal experienced it.

[CDRMark]

Looking forward to our first cruise and dressing appropriately formally. Revneals outlining of the HAL policy is word for word from the docs.
BTW it is not really the fashion police so much as the etiquette squad. Good manners probably preclude people from bringing up fashion faux pas'. Miss Manners should really have a SWAT team.
Cheers
MarkB

[Roboat]

Miss Manners should really have a SWAT team.
Cheers
MarkBI absolutely love Miss Manners. She would be such a hoot to cruise with.
Enjoy your upcoming cruise!

[cruznon]

It's great to hear that HAL is enforcing dress code in the dining room . I loved Revneal's post. Hope we get that Matre'd.
Formal night is so elegant. The whole atmosphere on the ship changes. (Nothing like gliding down a staircase in a beautiful gown on the arm of a gentleman in a tux/suit!)
Common courtesy/manners are not a thing of the past. There are lots of cruise line and/or dining choices open to those who would prefer not to "dress up." Cruise ships offer choices... if a person doesn't want to get formally attired then don't have dinner in the dining room on formal nights.

[RevNeal]

Oh, when evaluating Superstein's suggestions. you may wish to consider that he has tiny transmitter in his head implanted by the CIA which transmits Ashley Simpson songs 24/7 (thus he is always lip-synching them, even at dinner) and wears a bikini top and lederhosen on formal nights.

What a mental image! :D Methinks that's a special, chartered cruise!!!! LOL

I appreciate that TorontoTL was honestly asking a question regarding what he should wear on formal night! Rather than just assuming, he's asking! That's both considerate and appropriate and we should all respond to him with proper, informative respect.

Likewise, it is NOT an action of the mythical "Dress Police" for posters to answer such a question with the Cruise Line's Dress Code. Nor is it horrible that superstein61 offered his alternative suggestion; I disagree with his practice, and with his advice, but his offering an alternative is certainly fine. My purpose in posting what I did was to illustrate the possible consequences that one might face if they were to follow superstein61's advice. Given that TorontoTL appears to not be aware of HAL's Dress Code, and the fact that they would appear to be putting forth some effort to enforce it again, I thought my illustration from very recent history was appropriate. :)

No one should get "hot under the collar" about this topic. As the old saying goes "we pays our money and we takes our choice." If one's choice results in one not being served in the main dining room several nights a cruise, that's truly unfortunate, but that's the price one might have to pay for being unwilling to abide by the printed dress code. Certainly, those who are interested in "objectivity" can respect this simple fact? Right? :)

[Pudgesmom]

TorontoTL,

I know that a tux is a big departure from a shirt and tie, but if you're interested, you can rent a tux from HAL. It, and two shirts, will be waiting for you in your cabin. Its not free, but its cheaper than buying a suit, requires no packing, and most women can't resist a man in a cummerbund!;)

Whatever you choose, enjoy your cruise.
Beth

[Roboat]

and he wears a bikini top and lederhosen on formal nights.:p
What a mental image! :D Methinks that's a special, chartered cruise!!!! LOL

Well, sure. He's got the body for it. I, on the other hand, would just look silly. ;)

[gizmo]

Hi TorontoTL,

Why not play it safe and bring a jacket? It appears Hal is making an attempt at enforcing the dress code. Your other alternative would be to eat in the Lido.

[superstein61]

Superstien - not trying to flame, but...

Yea, I know the 'monkey suits' are uncomfortable, but have you ever tried to eat with panty hose squeezing everything below your waist into a night 'tight' package, and then a bustiere sqeezeing everything above your waiste in an upward position while enclosing your ribs into your lungs. Then we pull our hair up, just to add to the upward 'party'. Then we add these crazy little items that put us up on top of our toes were we get cramps in our calves. I promise our 'monkey' outfit is just as uncomfortable if not more than yours. We just like to torture you. :D Just haven't figured out why we do it to ourselves. :o

I think I am headed over to the Wind Jammer sight ;)
LOL - I love it Juli !!! :D Ok, I guess some of you gals suffer as well

[superstein61]

In reviewing the remarks, thus far, I note that superstein61 has weighed in on the subject with what has become his mantra: "Ignore them [the "Dress Police folks"] and enjoy yourself !!!" This may come as a shock to some, but I tend to agree with the general attitude, if not its context.
Woo Hoo - we agree :D


This is not snobbery, nor is it a flame; it's simply a FACT. Some of Holland America's Matre'D are hard-liners when it comes to the published dress code, and some are not. In two HAL cruises Superstein61 has been fortunate to either be on a ship where the Matre'D didn't care, or were he simply wasn't spotted. In the case of his cruise on the Zuiderdam, it's almost certainly the first situation. Good for him ...
OK - I will not dispute what the Rev says. You may come across the grouchy, hard line maitre'd on your ship (you won't on the Zuiderdam). So if you want to still relax - but play it safe, here is your fallback position. bring a sport coat along - and carry it to dinner. At dinner, slip it over the back of your chair, relax without the coat on and enjoy. I guarantee no uptight, hard line maitre'd will say a word to you .

[superstein61]

. If you don't wear at least a jacket and tie on formal night, you will be one of the very, very few who do not.
Oops, sounds like roboat is drowning again in his own special sauce - and it is causing him to post incorrect remarks. For shame

[superstein61]

There are cruise lines that aren't as strict about dress codes as HAL.

It doesn't take too much research to find which of these lines would be a better "fit" for those who don't like HAL's dress code.

There's something for almost everyone - even for those who seem to have a need to draw attention to themselves.
Ahh - didn't take long for the if you don't like HAL's suggestions, cruise on some other line crew to get here :(

[superstein61]

I don't understand why people feel uncomfortable in a tuxedo or a suit. Just buy one that fits properly.

TotontoTL:

The best thing you can do is to ignore the advice given by Superstein!
Wow - the flames just keep on coming

[superstein61]

Would you go to a fancy restaurant or an evening wedding reception, or a banquet, without a tie or in shorts? Why would you want to go casual to formal night? All ships now have alternative dining so nobody is forced to eat in the formal dining room. One of the reasons I love cruising is that it's one of the last "civilized" ways of travel. HAL spells out their dress code ahead of time; if you don't want to conform to it, don't go. They have the right to set out the rules, you have the right not to cruise on HAL.
Another member of it you don't like how HAL does it, cruise on another line crowd.

C'mon people. One does not have to like everything about a line to cruise on it. And one does not have to abide by silly outdated traditions just to please others

[superstein61]

The confrontational attitude expressed by SuperXXXX [I have another name for him] and some others is the reason I have decided not to participate in this board. Encountering him and others like him, my next scheduled
cruise will not be on HAL.
Wow - you have a bit of an attitude today don't you. Get up on the wrong side of the bed or what? And hey - if you promise to share your special pet name for me, I will share my special name of you ;)

For the record, from what I hear from Seattle, HAL’s management has decided to enforce the dress code.
For the record, this is hogwash. Lknick neither works for HAL nor has inside info

[superstein61]

Nor is it horrible that superstein61 offered his alternative suggestion; I disagree with his practice, and with his advice, but his offering an alternative is certainly fine.

No one should get "hot under the collar" about this topic. As the old saying goes "we pays our money and we takes our choice." :)
Rev - I agree with you. Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with - and no one should get bent out of shape about the topic as some here do. I think its a hoot how many folks get so upset over this topic.

[tankerjo2]

HAL has it's rules and the bare minimum is a jacket/sports coat which is what I have been wearing since we started cruising HAL in 92. Hey rules are rules so I'm sure no one on this board would ever consider sneaking a bottle or two of booze onboard tucked away safely in their checked luggage.

Tuxedo's are for marrying in
Suits are for burying in

[Pudgesmom]

Superstein,

Who decided that dressing up for dinner was a "silly outdated tradition?" I beg you not to make decisions for the rest of us. I love to dress up, rarely get the chance, and love to see my husband in a tuxedo. So please, don't wear appropriate attire if you don't want to, but don't tell me not to, especially when I'm following the dress code!

Beth

[merryecho]

Now I am outraged- a tuxedo uncomfortable? I'll trade it for a girdle, push up bra and high heels any day.

[BorderLady]

For the record, this is hogwash. Lknick neither works for HAL nor has inside infoI personally find your knowledge base amazing, especially since anonymity is the watch word for this board.

Please present evidence to support your comment. Or is it simply like your comment that I am a bigot since I do not think Cuban shirts are appropriate on formal night.

[xpcdoojk]

Anyone bring any marshmellows, I am hungry, and while the flames are rather mild they will soon be burning brighter!

I really think the suggested dress code is clear, but for non-conformists they can find nuance in any suggestion, to give them the wriggle room needed to say that they are "right" when they ignore the suggestion of their hosts. I really don't care what they wear, or if they get in or are not allowed into the dining room on formal night. What I do, however, care about is that anyone that is honestly asking the question what should they wear on formal night should be informed of the fact that there is a suggested dress code and what that dress code is. That if you fail to follow the suggested dress code you have no one to blame, but yourself if the crew denies you access to said dining room. The fact is on most cruises, even on less traditional lines, on formal night the majority of men wear at a minimum a sport coat and most wear a suit or a tuxedo.

In my opinion anyone that says that you don't need to wear a jacket is fighting a crusade, and there is nothing I dislike more than a pointless crusade. If you see yourself in the previous remark... then this is for you.:p :p :D ;)

jc

[mcduck]

As everyone, or almost everyone, will be dressed up on formal nights you may not feel comfortable being "underdressed" without a jacket.

To minimize packing, I purchased a black suit along with a white shirt with French cuffs and a bow tie. I use that for formal nights, and on the informal nights just substitute a coloured shirt and tie. That covers off four nights. If I really am lighting the suitcase, I will pack a couple of dressier polo shirts that go well with the black pants from the suit.

However, should you chose to dress to your own drummer, I'll be the guy at the next table that is extremly jealous. I dress up for work every day, so it is nice to be casual on holidays, but as I appreciate the many other positives of sailing on HAL, I make the very small "sacrifice". I wonder if the reason so many HAL veterans are so annoyed by those that don't dress up is that the cruise offers them one of the infrequent opportunities to dress up as they are retired. Not a shot at any one, just think that I would LIKE to get dressed up for dinner occassionally, if I was not already doing it on a daily basis. HAL's policy and the atmosphere that they are trying to create and maintain is fine, and anyone who does not want to conform does have two alternatives - the Lido on a HAL ship, or another cruise line.

My last comment is that they can make the passangers dress up, but what you will see is that "taste" is sometimes lacking. One of our more adventurous anti-formal, dress up HAL members should show up in a badly mismatched jacket, pants and tie and see what happens. Nothing no doubt because as goofy as you may look, you will be wearing a jacket and a tie.

[dot73]

Another member of it you don't like how HAL does it, cruise on another line crowd.

C'mon people. One does not have to like everything about a line to cruise on it. And one does not have to abide by silly outdated traditions just to please others

I was not saying you shouldn't cruise on Hal. My point was that if you don't want to dress up, there are other places on a ship to have dinner on formal nights. Nobody forces you to eat in the dining room. Why not show some respect for the people who do like to dress up and abide by "silly outdtated traditions" and want to eat dinner with people who also want to enjoy a special dinner. It's only two nights per cruise!

[Giorgi-one]

Wow - the flames just keep on coming

That was not intended as a flame, just some good sound advice. You will easily recognize a flame when I send one!

[bepsf]

Hmmm...

I wonder what it is about suits and tuxedos that are so offensive to certain folks? Do these same folks show up to work, church, or funerals in shorts and polo-shirts? Did they go to Prom or their own wedding in jeans and a t-shirt?

Nobody is forcing anyone to eat in the Main Dining Room, much less sail on HAL - so why the fuss??? If someone can afford to cruise, they can certainly afford to own a suit and tie or rent a Tux. If not, there are plenty of other options available to them...

The rule for formal night on HAL is 'Suit and Tie' - deal with it.

[Jewelly]

Hello all, I have read through all the posts about formal night for men, but I'd like to know how formal the women get? Dresses to the floor or is a black knee length acceptable? My sister and I are bringing my Mother (she is a first time cruiser). ;)

[bepsf]

Hello all, I have read through all the posts about formal night for men, but I'd like to know how formal the women get? Dresses to the floor or is a black knee length acceptable? My sister and I are bringing my Mother (she is a first time cruiser). ;)
Bringing your Mom!
Good for you!

Sounds like you'll do just fine, either way...
;)

[RevNeal]

You may come across the grouchy, hard line maitre'd on your ship (you won't on the Zuiderdam).

I'm sorry, supterstein61, but I really don't appreciate your characterizing Jerry, or any other Maitre'd, as "grouchy" and "uptight" simply because they're doing their job and politely, with great civility, patience, and sensitivity, asking errant passengers to conform to the dress code. To call them "grouchy" and "uptight" is both an unkind and an untrue characterization of these men; in Jerry's case, he's a very pleasant, kind, and attentive fellow. I understand that you view the dress code as a negative thing, and such is hence coloring your interpretation of those Maitre'd who require observance of the code; however, it is truly unfair of you to seat their motivation in a negative assessment of their personality.

[sail7seas]

Rev.....

Who is the Maitre d' who enforced the dress code on Zaandam?

[RevNeal]

Jerry was his first name ... I can get his last name from one of the Daily Programs or from the disembarkation day's Cruise Log, but those are at home.

[Ziggy7]

What I do, however, care about is that anyone that is honestly asking the question what should they wear on formal night should be informed of the fact that there is a suggested dress code and what that dress code is. That if you fail to follow the suggested dress code you have no one to blame, but yourself if the crew denies you access to said dining room. The fact is on most cruises, even on less traditional lines, on formal night the majority of men wear at a minimum a sport coat and most wear a suit or a tuxedo.

In my opinion anyone that says that you don't need to wear a jacket is fighting a crusadeI agree, and just for the record, nothing more sexy than a man dressed in a suit or tux :p

[ColoradoJuli]

Black knee length is just fine. The dress code says that cocktail dresses are fine. You are not required to wear full-length ball gowns. You will see some, but you will also see the cocktail dresses. Don't worry about your mom, she will have a blast. Get the girls dressed up and have some pictures made to remember this special time with your mom.

[marybeach]

We live at the beach, and my SO is from Cape Cod, originally, and he is most comfortable in shorts and a tee shirt, even in winter, it seems. However, even though he moans and groans, he is quite striking in his tux. He wears it on our cruises and for my office Christmas party. I bought him an extra shirt and regular grey silk tie to wear on the second night (like we rented before we bought the tux). We may repeat on the third night. I agree wholeheartedly with Merryecho....we women have a lot to handle on formal nights, too. Those sequins are heavy on some outfits. And, my heals are not the normal shoe type for me. Try sliding down the hallways on a rocking ship with backless mules, you guys! Ditto for the "enhancer" and/or the control tops!.

[Winks]

OK, so I have a question, not a flame. I am from Arizona. Out here we consider socks with your shorts formal. In fact, I only know 3 people who own dark suits and two of them are undertakers. Now, when it says tie, does that include stringties - of which I have many, some quite beautiful with all the turquoise and so forth - or does it mandate one of those silly eastern type tie ties of which I own none?

And, if they want me to get really formal, I can wear my boots with my shorts - that makes a statement.
Winks

[BorderLady]

If you want to consider it a regional outfit, like kilts, why not. But don't forget to bring your mule.

[Orcrone]

I sure don't want to get caught up in all this foolishness about dress codes. Just wanted to make an observation. It is very cut and clear as to whether men adhere to the dress code.


Formal nights - Is he wearing a coat and tie? Yes, you pass. No, eat elsewhere.
Informal nights - Same thing, but with a coat, tie optional.
Seems to me that women have much more leeway in what is considered acceptable for formal and informal nights, as the definition is not as cut and dry.

[sail7seas]

Thanks, Rev.

I found out....it is Jerry Spiels. A very nice gentleman we have sailed with in the past. Obviously, he is 'tending well' to his dining room.

[RuthC]

The question has certainly been answered by many people who have a wealth of experience on HAL. It's really quite simple: you signed up for a cruise on a fairly upscale line. When you did you knew (or should have known) what style of cruise HAL provides and made a conscious choice to go along with that.

When in Rome....

[superstein61]

HAL has it's rules and the bare minimum is a jacket/sports coat which is what I have been wearing since we started cruising HAL in 92. Hey rules are rules so I'm sure no one on this board would ever consider sneaking a bottle or two of booze onboard tucked away safely in their checked luggage.

Tuxedo's are for marrying in
Suits are for burying in
Yep :D No one here EVER breaks ANY rules ;)

[superstein61]

Superstein,

Who decided that dressing up for dinner was a "silly outdated tradition?" I beg you not to make decisions for the rest of us. I love to dress up, rarely get the chance, and love to see my husband in a tuxedo. So please, don't wear appropriate attire if you don't want to, but don't tell me not to, especially when I'm following the dress code!

Beth
Beth - for the record - I did :D But its just my opinion - which I am entitled to - as you to yours.

furthermore - for the record, I UNLIKE MOST EVERYONE ELSE never tell anyone what to wear. I am on record here as saying "Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with "

[superstein61]

I was not saying you shouldn't cruise on Hal. My point was that if you don't want to dress up, there are other places on a ship to have dinner on formal nights. Nobody forces you to eat in the dining room. Why not show some respect for the people who do like to dress up and abide by "silly outdtated traditions" and want to eat dinner with people who also want to enjoy a special dinner. It's only two nights per cruise!And why not show some respect for people who want to be comfortable and not follow silly outdated traditions ???

Again - it all comes back to the simple question that no one has ever adequately answered without being shallow or a bigot (I am not refering to you DOT73):

How does what someone else wears impact your own enjoyment ???

[superstein61]

That was not intended as a flame, just some good sound advice. You will easily recognize a flame when I send one!
YAWN

[marybeach]

One of the nicest couples we met on a RCCL cruise was from Scotland. He wore his dress kilt on formal nights. Since I have Scottish heritage, I loved it. In Nashville and in Texas, "black tie and blue jeans" is the dress for many occasions, like fundraisers. The Texas Society in D.C. has a "black tie and boots ball" at each Presidential inauguration. I, personally, find nothing offensive about the string ties. I've seen some entertainers in Nashville and Las Vegas that had belt buckles that would sell for the same as a small house. A formal night can have some character....even as simple as print cummerbunds and ties...ever seen a set with a golf or tennis motif?...we have them here. The point is, just be respectful of those that are enjoying formal night for what it is. Ridicule might be expected for something that is not even close to appropriate.

[superstein61]

Hmmm...


Nobody is forcing anyone to eat in the Main Dining Room, much less sail on HAL - so why the fuss???
And no one is forcing you not to dress up - but Why the Fuss over what someone else wears ??? Clothes do not make the man

[Winks]

If you want to consider it a regional outfit, like kilts, why not. But don't forget to bring your mule.
No problem there - we Arizonans already sent all our mules to New Mexico. Texas has enough of their own jackasses and didn't need any extra.
Winks

[superstein61]

I'm sorry, supterstein61, but I really don't appreciate your characterizing Jerry, or any other Maitre'd, as "grouchy" and "uptight" simply because they're doing their job and politely, with great civility, patience, and sensitivity, asking errant passengers to conform to the dress code. To call them "grouchy" and "uptight" is both an unkind and an untrue characterization of these men; in Jerry's case, he's a very pleasant, kind, and attentive fellow. I understand that you view the dress code as a negative thing, and such is hence coloring your interpretation of those Maitre'd who require observance of the code; however, it is truly unfair of you to seat their motivation in a negative assessment of their personality.
OK, scratch grouchy - how about hard line, stick up his . . . .

well you get the picture :)

Seriously - his job is to make sure the guests are comfortable and enjoying themself. Maybe he feels compelled to police the dress - but many of his counterparts do not - prefering to make their guests comfortable. To each his own

[Orcrone]

Superstein,

I have a question for you. I personally also don't care what other people wear. Although I don't mind getting dressed up, I think that three formal and two informal nights are a bit much for 10 days. However, I will either follow the dress code on those nights or possibly go to the Lido for one or more of them. That's fine, that's my choice.

But I'm wondering. You know how most people on this board feel about the dress code. You have as much chance of changing people's minds as they do of changing yours. So why do you keep getting drawn into these long debates?

It just seems so unproductive. I personally have much better things to do (like packing for my cruise in 3 days). WOOHOOO!!!!:) Sorry Superstein, there's a suit in my suitcase. Hmmm.... never noticed before. You pack your suit in a suitcase. Do you pack your clothes in a casualcase?:D

Sorry for the interruption. We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate.:rolleyes:

[superstein61]

OK, so I have a question, not a flame. I am from Arizona. Out here we consider socks with your shorts formal. In fact, I only know 3 people who own dark suits and two of them are undertakers. Now, when it says tie, does that include stringties - of which I have many, some quite beautiful with all the turquoise and so forth - or does it mandate one of those silly eastern type tie ties of which I own none?

And, if they want me to get really formal, I can wear my boots with my shorts - that makes a statement.
Winks
YEE HAH !!!

My kind of dress Winks !!!

And seriously - the stringtie would be fine

[superstein61]

One of the nicest couples we met on a RCCL cruise was from Scotland. He wore his dress kilt on formal nights. Since I have Scottish heritage, I loved it. In Nashville and in Texas, "black tie and blue jeans" is the dress for many occasions, like fundraisers. The Texas Society in D.C. has a "black tie and boots ball" at each Presidential inauguration. I, personally, find nothing offensive about the string ties. I've seen some entertainers in Nashville and Las Vegas that had belt buckles that would sell for the same as a small house. A formal night can have some character....even as simple as print cummerbunds and ties...ever seen a set with a golf or tennis motif?...we have them here. The point is, just be respectful of those that are enjoying formal night for what it is. Ridicule might be expected for something that is not even close to appropriate.
EXACTLY !!!

I have never advocated coming in shorts and a t-shirt. The original poster planned to wear a dress shirt and tie. That is certainly not out of place - nor was my fancy cuban short or my fancy mexican shirt.

people can still be very presentable without resorting to a tux or suit

[superstein61]

Superstein,

I have a question for you. I personally also don't care what other people wear. Although I don't mind getting dressed up, I think that three formal and two informal nights are a bit much for 10 days. However, I will either follow the dress code on those nights or possibly go to the Lido for one or more of them. That's fine, that's my choice.

But I'm wondering. You know how most people on this board feel about the dress code. You have as much chance of changing people's minds as they do of changing yours. So why do you keep getting drawn into these long debates?

probably for the same reason they continually get drawn in :D

BTW - congrats for not caring what others wear - thats the attitude everyone should have

[Pudgesmom]

Ok Superstein-

I agree you aren't telling us what to wear- just what "attitude" we should adopt.

Why, when you insist on flaunting conventions, do you seem so unhappy that people disagree with you? Maybe you just like mixing it up?:D

Beth

[xpcdoojk]

Why do some posters feel the need to respond to 50% of the posts on this thread?:confused: :p

I still think the rule wear whatever you think is comfortable in is just plain Du--!

I am really comfortable wearing an old pair of boxer shorts. Is that appropriate under your rules? If it isn't, then we can all agree that that rule is in fact Du--!!!!

By the way the cruise like life isn't all about what feels comfortable.:D I feel a crusade, without a point, here.:p

jc

[Esme]

Hello all, I have read through all the posts about formal night for men, but I'd like to know how formal the women get? Dresses to the floor or is a black knee length acceptable? My sister and I are bringing my Mother (she is a first time cruiser). ;)

Short black knee length is quite acceptable. Our daughter wears a short black dress and pearls for one formal night and a 3 pc. silk pant outfit for another night and she looks smart. Don't forget the pearls. :D That little black dress with pearls goes anywhere. Oh, boy, am I dating myself? :D

Folks - I think Superstein is pulling everyone's leg and just trying to get everyone's goat. I bet deep down, he really does dress in formal clothes. ;)
Come on Superstein - fess up - you're not really a non-conformist are you. :D

[Roboat]

So. Which is better? Bread pudding or global thermonuclear, I mean thermonucular, war?
(I edited out the post I had here, in the interest of whirled peas.)

[CDRMark]

It is, in fact, ultimately about respect for one's fellow travellers.
Cheers
MarkB

[RevNeal]

Again - it all comes back to the simple question that no one has ever adequately answered without being shallow or a bigot (I am not refering to you DOT73):

How does what someone else wears impact your own enjoyment ???

It doesn't. However ... and perhaps it's the pastoral part of me at work here ... I do have some concern for those who might be surprised and embarrassed by being asked to return to their cabins for the required attire after having been told by some on this board that they could safely attend Formal night without a jacket. For instance, you stated:

The original poster planned to wear a dress shirt and tie. That is certainly not out of place - nor was my fancy cuban short or my fancy mexican shirt.

While such is certainly your opinion -- and you got away with it on the Zuiderdam -- the truth is that such is, indeed, "out of place" on HAL on formal night. When the Daily Program specifically states that "Jacket and Tie" are "required" on formal night (and it does), how can anyone reasonably make the claim that one can attend without the jacket and think it's "ok." Note: I'm not talking about one being able to get away with it; just because one manages to get away with it doesn't make it "ok." And, what if one doesn't get away with it and, due to advice given him here, has no way to meet the requirement? It is for THIS eventuality that I am concerned, superstein61 ... for the innocent who hasn't been on a cruise but who might take your word as Gospel and be caught up short as well a for you. Let us say you decide to take a Cruise to Hawaii on the Statendam in 2005. It's a GREAT cruise. While you're in the islands all the nights are "Hawaiian Casual." It's wonderful! You'll even get laied during the first night ... and in the dining room, no less! :D ;) However, during the 5 nights in-transit to and from Hawaii there will be 2 formal nights each way. Those formal nights, on the Statendam, are enforced. If you try to have formal night dinner in the Rotterdam Dining room dressed in anything less than a jacket and tie you will be asked to return to your cabin for the proper attire. This isn't snobbery, nor is it even "old fashioned." It's called being asked to have "respect for the Line's Dress Code." I don't want this kind of thing to happen to you, or anyone else you advise, and you be caught without at least a sports jacket.

[Esme]

Thanks, Rev.

I found out....it is Jerry Spiels. A very nice gentleman we have sailed with in the past. Obviously, he is 'tending well' to his dining room.

It's Jerry Spies - no L (pronounced Spees). Have sailed with Jerry for over 20 years. He's one of the long-time HAL Maitre'ds

[superstein61]

Ok Superstein-

I agree you aren't telling us what to wear- just what "attitude" we should adopt.

Why, when you insist on flaunting conventions, do you seem so unhappy that people disagree with you? Maybe you just like mixing it up?:D

Beth
Beth - My point on all of these formal dress threads has always been:

1. people should do what they personally feel comfortable doing
2. no one should look down upon or criticize another person based on how they dress

What is so wrong with that attitude?

As far as people disagreeing with me - thats their problem, not mine. If they are too shallow to worry about how someone else dresses, they have bigger problems than me disagreeing with them

[superstein61]

Folks - I think Superstein is pulling everyone's leg and just trying to get everyone's goat. I bet deep down, he really does dress in formal clothes. ;)
Come on Superstein - fess up - you're not really a non-conformist are you. :D
Esme - nope, not pulling anyone's leg. I used to conform and wear the old suit and tie - but after cruising on NCL once where people can dress as they desire - and be comfortable, etc, I decided enough was enough. So on my last HAL cruise I was indeed a non-conformist.

Now - that does not mean I come dressed in shorts and a t-shirt like some here are exaggerating about. I dressed very presentable - nice docker type pants and a fancy Cuban shirt one formal evening - a fancy mexican shirt the other formal evening. I rec'd plenty of compliments too (I was at a table with 7 women - me the only male) from both my table as well as a few other folks. And I was comfortable. What is so wrong with that?

[superstein61]

It doesn't. However ... and perhaps it's the pastoral part of me at work here ... I do have some concern for those who might be surprised and embarrassed by being asked to return to their cabins for the required attire after having been told by some on this board that they could safely attend Formal night without a jacket. For instance, you stated:



While such is certainly your opinion -- and you got away with it on the Zuiderdam -- the truth is that such is, indeed, "out of place" on HAL on formal night. When the Daily Program specifically states that "Jacket and Tie" are "required" on formal night (and it does), how can anyone reasonably make the claim that one can attend without the jacket and think it's "ok." Note: I'm not talking about one being able to get away with it; just because one manages to get away with it doesn't make it "ok." And, what if one doesn't get away with it and, due to advice given him here, has no way to meet the requirement? It is for THIS eventuality that I am concerned, superstein61 ... for the innocent who hasn't been on a cruise but who might take your word as Gospel and be caught up short as well a for you. Let us say you decide to take a Cruise to Hawaii on the Statendam in 2005. It's a GREAT cruise. While you're in the islands all the nights are "Hawaiian Casual." It's wonderful! You'll even get laied during the first night ... and in the dining room, no less! :D ;) However, during the 5 nights in-transit to and from Hawaii there will be 2 formal nights each way. Those formal nights, on the Statendam, are enforced. If you try to have formal night dinner in the Rotterdam Dining room dressed in anything less than a jacket and tie you will be asked to return to your cabin for the proper attire. This isn't snobbery, nor is it even "old fashioned." It's called being asked to have "respect for the Line's Dress Code." I don't want this kind of thing to happen to you, or anyone else you advise, and you be caught without at least a sports jacket.
What - you mean I won't get laied every night ;) Darn - HAL needs to spring for more flowers ;)

Anyway - I understand what you are saying Rev - and I did modify my stance partway thru saying that if the OP wanted to play it safe, on the off chance someone does single them out for not having a jacket, they should just bring a sports coat on board. I even said they could carry it to the dining room with them - but if I were them, I would just leave it in the stateroom myself - it would be a short walk back to get it.

Actually if I were them, i wouldn't pack one but hey, I like risks - LOL

[jhannah]

I used to conform and wear the old suit and tie - but after cruising on NCL once where people can dress as they desire - and be comfortable, etc, I decided enough was enough.Then it would seem that NCL is a much better vacation choice for you. On that side of the coin, don't you think someone in a tux would be out of place in the dining room? I'm not saying right or wrong ... just out of place. Wouldn't they be?

[superstein61]

Then it would seem that NCL is a much better vacation choice for you. On that side of the coin, don't you think someone in a tux would be out of place in the dining room? I'm not saying right or wrong ... just out of place. Wouldn't they be?
many things go into making a vacation choice. NCL's freestyle is a big plus IMO. But lately HAL has had better iteneraries and pricing for where I wanted to go, as well as bigger / nicer rooms. So just because I like one aspect of NCL, doesn't mean its the be all and end all.

And no, on NCL someone wearing a tux on formal night would NOT be out of place. NCL does it right - certain sit down restaurants are designated formal and others are casual on "formal night" (and I am not refering to being shunned to the Lido either)

[Linda&Vern]

The confrontational attitude expressed by SuperXXXX [I have another name for him] and some others is the reason I have decided not to participate in this board. Encountering him and others like him, my next scheduled
cruise will not be on HAL.

For the record, from what I hear from Seattle, HAL’s management has decided to enforce the dress code.
:confused: NO - NO - don't say that you won't cruise HAL because of what others are writing on this board. Count the number of HAL ships, multiply by the number of passengers, multiply by the number of trips each each ship makes a year ---- then compare to the number of people who "chat" on this board. You are dealing with a very, very, very small percentage of traveling passengers here. While I truly appreciate their input on my first time cruiser questions, you are not reading the thoughts, ideas, and attidudes of every HAL passenger. If you won't cruise HAL, make it because of something that happened to YOU - not other people!

[RevNeal]

CL's freestyle is a big plus IMO. But lately HAL has had better iteneraries and pricing for where I wanted to go, as well as bigger / nicer rooms. So just because I like one aspect of NCL, doesn't mean its the be all and end all.

And no, on NCL someone wearing a tux on formal night would NOT be out of place. NCL does it right - certain sit down restaurants are designated formal and others are casual on "formal night" (and I am not refering to being shunned to the Lido either)

The statement: "NCL does it right - certain sit down restaurants are designated formal and others are casual on "formal night"" is entirely your subjective opinion ... not gospel. I certainly disagree. And that's what makes life fun: we all have our own tastes, or own likes and dislikes; we don't all have to be the same ... and neither do all the cruise lines. I want NCL to be NCL and HAL to be HAL ... not HAL to be NCL. I cruise with HAL because I like their traditions and style. I'd rather not see them change.

[bigben]

I've never cruised with HAL and was wondering how dressed up I will need to be on formal nights. I don't like wearing suits and was wondering if it would be frowned upon if I wore a dress shirt, tie and dress pants to dinner on formal nights. Sorry if anyone has asked this recently.
You should consider NCL. Most People that cruise HAL enjoy dressing up. If you don't NCL is for you

[TorontoTL]

Thanks for all the input people. I didn't realize that this topic was going to cause such emotional responses. I just wanted to have an idea of how strict things were for HAL. I'v only cruised with Princess and for their formal nights, most men are in tux's or suits and a handfull just had shirt and ties. I'm not trying to break any rules or things. I just noticed that on Princess no one really cared as long as you were nicely dressed. It sounds like on HAL one should have a suit and tie for most nights.

[doone]

Superstein, you need to return to NCL, where you can dress as you wish and be comfortable. BUT I have to agree with Esme, I think you are just stirring the pot here, which you do on almost all subjects. I'll bet we'd all see you in the dining room on formal evenings in a very nice tuxedo.

Toronto, suit and tie for formal nights only, other nights jacket would be required, tie optional and casual nights you don't need a jacket and tie.

For the ladies, on casual nights, I like to wear a nice capri outfit. Informal nights, a nice pant suit and formal nights, dressy black pants with a sequened top or sequened pant suits. Its not too hard to dress up on formal nights, use your imagination, you'll look great. As you can see, I hate the panty hose as well, you don't need it, silk pants and a sequened top with some nice jewelry, perfect.

[Himself]

Good Answer Doone. No wonder you are a "Blue Ribbon Cruiser."

[Stevesan]

For those tempted to typecast HAL cruisers by the relative few who post here, you should be aware that there are four million "Mariners"! A "Mariner" is a former HAL passenger. So pay us no mind, and view comments as "for entertainment only".

[sail7seas]

Those who post here and support a dress code represent millions of others who are Mariners who agree but do not post on the Bulletin Boards.

Those who post here and do not respect their fellow pax and flaunt the dress code also represent many Mariners who agree with them but do not post on the Bulletin Boards.

Only a small percentage of cruisers visit these Boards but we are representative of the millions of others who cruise.

[Opinions]

When we post on this board we are giving our own opinions...I am not aware of anyone who is authorized to represent the millions who do not bother to post.

[Pudgesmom]

It is my opinion that, while the posters here do not "represent" the non-posters, they are probably "representative" of overall opinions.

Therefore, if most of the posters feel it is appropriate to follow the dress code on a HAL ship, it is likely that non-posters ( and probably other passengers) feel the same way.

Beth

[Opinions]

One can post on these boards without ever sailing on a HAL ship...In my opinion the only comments that are "representative" are those of actual passengers on HAL ships.

[Roadwork]

I know it is almost Halloween, but this is the first I heard of resurrecting a dead horse:D

[Orcrone]

I know it is almost Halloween, but this is the first I heard of resurrecting a dead horse:DRoadwork. This dead horse gets resurrected very few weeks and will continue to do so.

[dinscoe68]

Since we're on the topic of formal nights, can I ask what is acceptable for a 10 year old boy? Would a jacket be required for him, also? Or, would he be able to go to Club HAL during that time? I wasn't sure of their hours and he would probably prefer that anyway, but just want to be prepared. Kids grow so quick that we haven't bought his first suit yet. Thanks!

[ekerr19]

Beth - for the record - I did :D But its just my opinion - which I am entitled to - as you to yours.

furthermore - for the record, I UNLIKE MOST EVERYONE ELSE never tell anyone what to wear. I am on record here as saying "Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with "

Boy, I'm gone from the boards (packing and getting ready for our cruise) for just a few days and looky what we have here! This could be a clone of the same thread last month, last week, last year...

I wasn't going to read this - let alone post anything. However, I feel it is important to point out that everyone on these boards is entitled to his/her OPINION and each persons opinion should be respected as such.

We all know Superstein chooses not to dress in a jacket & tie - apparently, the Maitre d' on the Zui had no issue with this on a formal night, so what difference does it make?

I guess I just don't understand why anyone would be bothered by what someone else is or isn't wearing? We dress in accordance to the suggested dress, we enjoy ourselves - we don't really care what those around are or are not wearing.

I will not wear pantyhose or stockings anymore - I wear dressy sandals to dinner and most sandals are not condusive to wearing pantyhose - also, as one poster pointer out - they are uncomfortable, especially in hot, humid climates. My DH wears his tux (when he doesn't have his arm in a cast), but is not really that comfortable wearing it when it is hot.

He is unable to wear his jacket on our upcoming cruise due to the cast - I certainly hope no one takes offense at his lack of dinner jacket.

[digby]

I've never cruised with HAL and was wondering how dressed up I will need to be on formal nights. I don't like wearing suits and was wondering if it would be frowned upon if I wore a dress shirt, tie and dress pants to dinner on formal nights. Sorry if anyone has asked this recently.


It certainly wouldn't bother me! On my recent Westerdam cruise I saw some men dressed as you described, but most wore jackets, suits or tuxes.

[digby]

I'm willing to bet the farm the dress code said SUGGESTED and not Required on my Westerdam cruise.

[Stevesan]

Those who post here and support a dress code represent millions of others who are Mariners who agree but do not post on the Bulletin Boards.

Those who post here and do not respect their fellow pax and flaunt the dress code also represent many Mariners who agree with them but do not post on the Bulletin Boards.

Only a small percentage of cruisers visit these Boards but we are representative of the millions of others who cruise.
Aren't you a bit premature? Elections aren't until next week.:)

[bepsf]

I'm willing to bet the farm the dress code said SUGGESTED and not Required on my Westerdam cruise.
As the HAL Maitre'd was quoted above:

"...Formal Wear is suggested - and Coat and Tie is (the minimum) required."

I'm all for creativity when it comes to formal wear - kilts, cowboy string-ties/Texas formal, trendy formalwear, etc. We have plenty of formal gatherings here in SF, and for a city notorious for being underdressed (this is where 'casual Friday' started) one rarely ever sees folks dressed down at the Black & White Ball, the Oscar galas or certain other benefit galas. We also have restaurants and private clubs who will not admit individuals who are not dressed in coat & tie.

When it comes down to it, in individual coming to a formal dinner in casual attire - regardless if the occassion is 'by invitation', paid for or on a cruiseship - is socially inappropriate.

Don't like those rules? Go somewhere else - simple as that.

[Roboat]

I guess I just don't understand why anyone would be bothered by what someone else is or isn't wearing? We dress in accordance to the suggested dress, we enjoy ourselves - we don't really care what those around are or are not wearing.
Ekerr, though we have argued the dress code stuff amongst ourselves a lot, we really haven't discussed that question specifically.
Why DO some people object to what others are wearing? It is actually a pretty good question.

Obviously, some people enjoy dressing up more than others. And regardless of which side one is on, we all tend to want to be surrounded by like-minded people. So, when those who prefer tradition see someone chipping away at their tradition, it is only natural to attack. Maybe not right, but natural.

The fear is that more and more people will dress casually, until eventually those who dress formally will be in the minority, and will feel out of place.
There are fewer and fewer opportunities these days where many of us can feel completely comfortable being all decked out. The more Supersteins there are, the sooner this opportunity will be gone.

And that's not to say Superstein is wrong (don't tell him I said this) for wanting things to be more his way. The sooner that happens, the sooner he will feel comfortable in casual attire. (That assumes he doesn't start wearing long-tailed tuxes just to keep the pot stirred.;) )

Anyway, I think that's the big emotional issue in the ole Dead Horse Saloon. (Jacket's required, but not suggested) :)

[Giorgi-one]

Exactly Roboat. Most people who choose HAL or Celebrity are looking for a more traditioinal, formal cruise. Having everyone dressed up is part of the ambiance. Sure it's a little bit of a fantasy trip, throw back to the old days of the magnificent ocean liners, James Bond, etc. but it's fun. Certainly, it's not going to ruin our cruise if a few people don't dress. But at what point does it start to take away from the ambiance.

Also, one point that no one seemed to make. There are nights on the ship for everyone's taste in clothing - two formal nights, two informal nights and three casual nights.

[lknick]

I guess I just don't understand why anyone would be bothered by what someone else is or isn't wearing? We dress in accordance to the suggested dress, we enjoy ourselves - we don't really care what those around are or are not wearing.In reality, few do. This is just an opportunity for some to display their opinions.

But, as the same posters always say the same thing while refusing to acknowledge the sincerity of the initial question, it seems to me that this is really an opportunity for some to prove their point in an arena in which there is no consequences.

When I see words such as “coward,” “bigot,” “bad day,” “fashion police,” etc. followed by “you must respect my opinion,” I have to wonder what is behind such vehemence.

[xpcdoojk]

As the HAL Maitre'd was quoted above:

"...Formal Wear is suggested - and Coat and Tie is (the minimum) required."

I'm all for creativity when it comes to formal wear - kilts, cowboy string-ties/Texas formal, trendy formalwear, etc. We have plenty of formal gatherings here in SF, and for a city notorious for being underdressed (this is where 'casual Friday' started) one rarely ever sees folks dressed down at the Black & White Ball, the Oscar galas or certain other benefit galas. We also have restaurants and private clubs who will not admit individuals who are not dressed in coat & tie.

When it comes down to it, in individual coming to a formal dinner in casual attire - regardless if the occassion is 'by invitation', paid for or on a cruiseship - is socially inappropriate.

Don't like those rules? Go somewhere else - simple as that.
Excellent post!

jc

[xpcdoojk]

In reality, few do. This is just an opportunity for some to display their opinions.

But, as the same posters always say the same thing while refusing to acknowledge the sincerity of the initial question, it seems to me that this is really an opportunity for some to prove their point in an arena in which there is no consequences.

When I see words such as “coward,” “bigot,” “bad day,” “fashion police,” etc. followed by “you must respect my opinion,” I have to wonder what is behind such vehemence.
It is called a crusade, and it is the bane of all of the forums at CC. We have individuals who desire change or to stop change, and who use this forum to try to cause the change or stop it. I feel that CC is a place for us to share our passion for cruising. To help new comers to maximize their experience, and to prepare for things as they are. Generally, this topic begins with a legitimate new person, wanting to understand formal nights and what they need to prepare for in order to fit in. Then the crusaders come in with their view of the way cruising should be, and the fight starts. Brian said it exactly correct in his previous post, but the crusaders have to fight their cause. Last week it was uncialman trying to force HAL back into their pre-CCL mode. Next week it will be prepaid tipping, or babies in the pool, or etc....:D

jc

jc

[RevNeal]

I'm willing to bet the farm the dress code said SUGGESTED and not Required on my Westerdam cruise.

Here are two scans of the appropriate section of the Daily Program from the Zaandam's 21 Day Panama Canal Cruise Sept 25- Oct 16, 2004. Note the wording.

http://www.revneal.org/informaldress1.jpg

Even informal night's published code, in the Daily Program, states that a jacket is "required." If it's "required" for informal night, how can it possibly be thought of as being just "suggested" for formal night? That would violate the entire essence of the concept "formal."

Let's see what the Daily Program stated regarding what was expected on formal night:

http://www.revneal.org/formaldress1.jpg

Yes, the word "suggested" is used ... the Tuxedo is what is "suggested." What is "required" is a jacket and tie.

So ... what kind of farm is it??? ;)

[peaches from georgia]

Here are two scans of the appropriate section of the Daily Program from the Zaandam's 21 Day Panama Canal Cruise Sept 25- Oct 16, 2004. Note the wording.

http://www.revneal.org/informaldress1.jpg

http://www.revneal.org/formaldress1.jpg

Thanks, rev. Reading these 2 codes and hearing of your experience, there is no doubt that HAL has started a new and tougher policy. I think they realized that there had been a drastic change in decorum in the dining room the last year or 2 and they didn't want it to go any further.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Here are two scans of the appropriate section of the Daily Program from the Zaandam's 21 Day Panama Canal Cruise Sept 25- Oct 16, 2004. Note the wording.

http://www.revneal.org/informaldress1.jpg

Even informal night's published code, in the Daily Program, states that a jacket is "required." If it's "required" for informal night, how can it possibly be thought of as being just "suggested" for formal night? That would violate the entire essence of the concept "formal."

Let's see what the Daily Program stated regarding what was expected on formal night:

http://www.revneal.org/formaldress1.jpg

Yes, the word "suggested" is used ... the Tuxedo is what is "suggested." What is "required" is a jacket and tie.

So ... what kind of farm is it??? ;)

Greg, Thank you for posting that. I would say that should answer the question in full. I am certainly glad HAL is starting to get a tougher in this area.

[sail7seas]

IMO...

One episode, one cruise, on one ship does not a new policy make. It is a good sign for those of us who support enforcement of the dress code but until we hear of Maitre d's on other ships/other cruises doing the same, it is now only the one reported incident.

I hope that other cruisers on other ships will let us know if they hear/see enforcement occuring on their cruises.

[bepsf]

Here are two scans of the appropriate section of the Daily Program from the Zaandam's 21 Day Panama Canal Cruise Sept 25- Oct 16, 2004. Note the wording.

http://www.revneal.org/informaldress1.jpg

Even informal night's published code, in the Daily Program, states that a jacket is "required." If it's "required" for informal night, how can it possibly be thought of as being just "suggested" for formal night? That would violate the entire essence of the concept "formal."

Let's see what the Daily Program stated regarding what was expected on formal night:

http://www.revneal.org/formaldress1.jpg

Yes, the word "suggested" is used ... the Tuxedo is what is "suggested." What is "required" is a jacket and tie.

So ... what kind of farm is it??? ;)
Touche'
;)

[xpcdoojk]

Thanks, Revneal!

Facts are so much better than crusades.

jc

[RevNeal]

One episode, one cruise, on one ship does not a new policy make. It is a good sign for those of us who support enforcement of the dress code but until we hear of Maitre d's on other ships/other cruises doing the same, it is now only the one reported incident.

I agree. I simply offered an example of what was printed in the Daily Program aboard the Zaandam. I also shared an example of where the Dress Code is being enforced. That most certainly does NOT mean that it's being enforced everywhere ... even on ships where the code is being posted! Something similar is posted in the Daily Programs on the Zuiderdam, yet they don't enforce it. On the Volendam, in Sept 2003, this same code was posted in the Daily Program but they didn't enforce it.

So ... I agree. It may just be that Jerry believes in enforcing the Dress Code. Time will tell.

[superstein61]

The statement: "NCL does it right - certain sit down restaurants are designated formal and others are casual on "formal night"" is entirely your subjective opinion ... not gospel. I certainly disagree. And that's what makes life fun: we all have our own tastes, or own likes and dislikes; we don't all have to be the same ... .
Rev

you are missing the point. EVERYTHING people post here is their subjective opinion !!!

people are free to agree or disagree - but everyone is entitled to their opinion

[superstein61]

You should consider NCL. Most People that cruise HAL enjoy dressing up. If you don't NCL is for you
Wow - another member of the "if you won't dress how I want you to, find another cruise line" club

[superstein61]

Superstein, you need to return to NCL, where you can dress as you wish and be comfortable. BUT I have to agree with Esme, I think you are just stirring the pot here, which you do on almost all subjects. I'll bet we'd all see you in the dining room on formal evenings in a very nice tuxedo.

I will pick the cruise line I cruise on - Thank you. If you do not like it, tough.

And no, I do not wear a jacket onboard any longer. And its never caused me a problem

[superstein61]

Boy, I'm gone from the boards (packing and getting ready for our cruise) for just a few days and looky what we have here! This could be a clone of the same thread last month, last week, last year...

I wasn't going to read this - let alone post anything. However, I feel it is important to point out that everyone on these boards is entitled to his/her OPINION and each persons opinion should be respected as such.

We all know Superstein chooses not to dress in a jacket & tie - apparently, the Maitre d' on the Zui had no issue with this on a formal night, so what difference does it make?

I guess I just don't understand why anyone would be bothered by what someone else is or isn't wearing? We dress in accordance to the suggested dress, we enjoy ourselves - we don't really care what those around are or are not wearing.

I will not wear pantyhose or stockings anymore - I wear dressy sandals to dinner and most sandals are not condusive to wearing pantyhose - also, as one poster pointer out - they are uncomfortable, especially in hot, humid climates. My DH wears his tux (when he doesn't have his arm in a cast), but is not really that comfortable wearing it when it is hot.

He is unable to wear his jacket on our upcoming cruise due to the cast - I certainly hope no one takes offense at his lack of dinner jacket.
Thank you ekerr - my feelings exactly. I frequently anm amazed at all those who get upset with what others wear. Everyone has their own opinions and everyone should do what they are comfortable with doing. Thats the bottom line

[superstein61]

.

And that's not to say Superstein is wrong (don't tell him I said this) for wanting things to be more his way. The sooner that happens, the sooner he will feel comfortable in casual attire.
Ah contraire dear roboat - I am quite comfortable eschewing jacket and tie now. I personally could give a horse's patootie what others think about how I dress :D

[superstein61]

IMO...

One episode, one cruise, on one ship does not a new policy make. . . . until we hear of Maitre d's on other ships/other cruises doing the same, it is now only the one reported incident.


Wow - I actually agree with S7S here. You are so right - because I can tell you my experience on the Zuiderdam in late July / early August contradicts the rev's experience on the ship he was on

[sail7seas]

Wow - I actually agree with S7S here. You are so right - because I can tell you my experience on the Zuiderdam in late July / early August contradicts the rev's experience on the ship he was on


My experience on Zuiderdam in October contradicts what you report as your July/August experience. We found most pax to be very respectful of others and dressed per the dress code.

[Opinions]

[QUOTE=doone].

For the ladies, on casual nights, I like to wear a nice capri outfit. Informal nights, a nice pant suit and formal nights, dressy black pants with a sequened top or sequened pant suits. Its not too hard to dress up on formal nights, use your imagination, you'll look great. QUOTE]

The HAL website says "On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns"...Doone, you don't follow the suggested dress for ladies on formal nights so why pick on the men?

[superstein61]

My experience on Zuiderdam in October contradicts what you report as your July/August experience. We found most pax to be very respectful of others and dressed per the dress code.
One can be respectful of others without wearing a suit coat or tux

[superstein61]

[QUOTE=doone].

For the ladies, on casual nights, I like to wear a nice capri outfit. Informal nights, a nice pant suit and formal nights, dressy black pants with a sequened top or sequened pant suits. Its not too hard to dress up on formal nights, use your imagination, you'll look great. QUOTE]

The HAL website says "On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns"...Doone, you don't follow the suggested dress for ladies on formal nights so why pick on the men?
:D :D :D You mean what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. I am shocked ;) LOL

[Roboat]

Ah contraire dear roboat - I am quite comfortable eschewing jacket and tie now. I personally could give a horse's patootie what others think about how I dress :Ddeleeeeeted - same-old same-old

[RevNeal]

you are missing the point. EVERYTHING people post here is their subjective opinion !!!

Is that the point? I thought the point of this thread was to answer a question regarding what would be appropriate on Formal Night on HAL; regardless of what one might like to think, the Dress Code is pertinent to that question. For instance, the Daily Program on the Zaandam during it's 21-day Panama Canal Cruise stated that jackets were "required" for men. That is NOT opinion, but substantiated historical FACT. What one does about this fact while on a cruise will vary from person to person, but this doesn't change what the code says. Hence, relative to what the code actually says, a dress shirt, tie, and slacks (sans jacket) would not meet the posted requirement for formal or informal night. Subjective opinion would be wether or not one should feel any need to bother abiding by the Dress Code. I think people should; you don't think it matters; we disagree. Boy ... I'm glad people are different; the world would be dull if everyone were the same; ditto for cruise lines, dress codes, and dining policies. And that was what I said. Why should HAL copy NCL?

people are free to agree or disagree - but everyone is entitled to their opinion

I don't think I ever said, or implied, that people are not entitled to their opinion. "Everyone has the right to be wrong." :D

[debblue]

i enjoy dresing for dinner each night and dressing per the lines request, its wonderful to dress for dinner, i am on a cruise and have the time to dress for the occassion, i don't let what other passengers wear bother me, though i have had table mates ask why i am dressed " up"ed for dinner, i give them a look and go about my business, i don't comment on what they are wearing and i certainly don't want to waste time explaining the dress code to them if they feel uncomfortable, well they should have read the program, yes i have seen the maitre d tell some passengers on my last cruise the dress code for that night, one couple left abruptdly and headed for the lido!!!!oh well,its what makes the world go around. after working hard all week and work and home, its nice to take a cruise and dress up and feel special, especially after spending the money now for a cruise, it makes the trip even more fun, especially seeing what other people wear and enjoying the sights with no comment from me asking why"!!!!!!
happy cruising everyone.

[dinscoe68]

Since we're on the topic of formal nights, can I ask what is acceptable for a 10 year old boy? Would a jacket be required for him, also? Or, would he be able to go to Club HAL during that time? I wasn't sure of their hours and he would probably prefer that anyway, but just want to be prepared. Kids grow so quick that we haven't bought his first suit yet. Thanks!
:confused: Does anyone have thoughts about my question? I can certainly see everyone has thoughts/opinions regarding the "adults" but haven't heard children mentioned. Are they not to be taken to the dining room on formal nights or what? I wonder if I'm doing this posting thing wrong (please help me if I am) because I've posted responses/questions in other threads and they have been ignored.

Thanks

[doone]

This is what we did when the children sailed with us on the Veendam.

I had rented tux's for all the men, young men as well. We chose second seating for dinner, which was when the Club HAL activities for the younger children were taking place (not sure what dining time you have chosen, but if you want your child to dine with you, then choose the earlier seating). We gave the option to the kids of either eating in the dining room with us or attending the Club HAL activities. The younger kids (ages 5 - 10) LOVED Club HAL, so they chose the activities. We did dress the boys in their tux's to have their pictures taken with the captain and then my sisters took the kids to their cabins and changed their clothes so they could attend the Club HAL activities. My sisters took the kids to the Lido for dinner or they ordered room service, which the kids thought was GREAT. Had we known these the activities were held during the hours of second seating, we would have chosen early seating so the kids could have enjoyed the dining experience.

Our next family cruise will be in 2006 and we will choose the earlier seating so the kids can dress up in their tux's and fancy dresses and participate in the cruise dining experience.

In answer to your question, yes, children are welcome to the dining room for dinner on formal evenings. I think they enjoy the experience as well. Do they need a jacket? For a 10-year old, I would say no, put a nice shirt and tie with a nice pair of trousers, he will be fine. To be honest with you, I wouldn't purchase a suit for a 10-year old either. You could, however, if you wanted, rent the tux, but its not necessary. Your son will be fine.

[Orcrone]

:confused: Does anyone have thoughts about my question? I can certainly see everyone has thoughts/opinions regarding the "adults" but haven't heard children mentioned. Are they not to be taken to the dining room on formal nights or what? I wonder if I'm doing this posting thing wrong (please help me if I am) because I've posted responses/questions in other threads and they have been ignored.

ThanksDinscoe,

I can understand not wanting to purchase a suit for a ten year old boy. He'll probably outgrow it before using it again. Others may disagree with me, but I'd say he'd be fine with a dress shirt and tie.

[peaches from georgia]

He definetely should be in the dining room on formal night. Most kids really enjoy being part of a grown-up dinner that is obviously special, but he will be learning a lot about manners and dress.

His outfit doesn't have to be 'formal' formal, but every boy at 10 should have at least a dress shirt and tie and I know you could pick up a very inexpensive sport jacket at Target or a similar store for next to nothing. He would look great and it would be a special evening for him, too.

[flamingogal]

My sons ( 11, 14, 15 ) all participated in formal night on our Veendam Western Carribean Cruise in Jan. 2003. They did not wear jackets, but did wear dress slacks, long-sleeved button down shirts and ties, also belts and decent shoes. They looked fine and no one commented. There were other children and teen-agers dressed about the same. Your son does not need a jacket in the dining room. He will look great in just a shirt and tie. You can always get him a really cool tie to spice up the look.

Have a great trip. Leave the small worries at home! :p

[Pudgesmom]

When my son was 9, we found an adorable four piece outfit for him at JC Penney's. It was very inexpensive and consisted of slacks, dress shirt, VEST and clip-on tie. He looked adorable.:D Also, I think it was more comfortable for a boy his age. Check the discount stores, maybe you'll find something, too.

Having said that, I think he would have looked fine in something less, and would not have been sent back to the cabin by the maitre'd! :p

I hope your family has a wonderful cruise!

Beth

[lknick]

IMO...One episode, one cruise, on one ship does not a new policy make. It is my understanding from information received from Seattle that enforcement will be fleetwide. Management has decided to create a more ‘harmonious atmosphere’ on board and this, along with increased security, is part of the campaign.
You are missing the point. EVERYTHING people post here is their subjective opinion !!! People are free to agree or disagree - but everyone is entitled to their opinion My opinion is that everyone should drive on the right side of the road, but there are dire consequences when I do such in the UK, India, Japan, and other countries. Following 'local custom' is mandatory.

Since we're on the topic of formal nights, can I ask what is acceptable for a 10 year old boy? Would a jacket be required for him, also? Or, would he be able to go to Club HAL during that time? I wasn't sure of their hours and he would probably prefer that anyway, but just want to be prepared. Kids grow so quick that we haven't bought his first suit yet. Thanks! You will see on board many different forms of dress for 10 year old cruisers, from formal to open shirt. In my mind, the issue is whether you are raising a young gentleman or a child. At what age should children be taught the responsibilities of adulthood? Obviously, not all are taught or some never learn.

A sport coat is fine. One can be obtained inexpensively at resale shops or mass merchandizers.

[trubey]

I think Iknick put it so succinctly on a long-ago thread there should never be another question about dress codes. If I may paraphrase you, sir?

Formal night: evening clothes: Tuxedo for gentlemen, Evening Gowns for ladies. (A suit or jacket and tie is acceptable).

Informal night: A jacket or blazer and shirt and necktie for gentlemen, dressy (no trousers) for ladies.

Casual night: Nice clothes (no shorts or jeans) but nothing formal is required or expected.

Kids? I got my first suit when I was, I think, four years old. I wore it to church, dinners with my parents' friends or in nicer restaurants, special dances or parties, etc. There's no reason I can see why kids can't dress up occasionally. It's a great opportunity for them to learn. (even though they go "Oh, MOM!" I bet they secretly love it)

Why flaunt the cruise line's wishes? It doesn't make you an iconoclast or an individualist; more like a spoilsport. Cruises are all "let's pretend" anyway. Why not pretend you're the Duke of York having dinner with a few friends on your Yacht, complete with sommellier and a few hovering waiters? It's great fun!

lane http://smileys.******************/cat/11/11_2_100.gif (http://www.******************/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[doone]

Superstein, where did I say women and children can ignore the dress code thing? I put my nephews, from age 5 - 17, in tuxedo's for our cruise. The girls wore fancy dresses. I wear sequened pant suits or a pair of nice black slacks and a sequened top. If that's ignoring the dress code thing, then I guess I am guilty.

As far as answering the posters question, this is a child we're talking about, dressing for dinner, I think a shirt, tie and nice trousers are perfectly acceptable for him for a formal dinner although, a nice sport jacket is nice as well.

[lknick]

I don't know why we insist on making exceptions for children.

On my first cruise, at age 5, I remember wearing a white shirt, tie, knickers, scratchy socks and blazer. But that was so long ago...

Two years ago, my male grandchildren aged 11 and 12 wore suits, my male grandchildren aged 14, 15, 17 wore tux...by their choice as they either knew what was appropriate or their mother knew what was appropriate. [Sometimes, it's hard to say.]

And of course, the young ladies, aged 7 and 19, both wore dresses.

[mmacdcc]

There's nothing that says you have to spend a lot on a boys suit -- as was mentioned before, second-hand and resale stores would have them pretty cheap. Again, as was mentioned before, they aren't worn much before they're outgrown.

Heck, you could even donate it when he outgrows it and get a tax deduction, or put it in a consigment shop and probably get almost what you paid for it.

[doone]

I am not making excuses for children, I am trying to put myself in this posters position. Perhaps they booked this cruise last minute and couldn't take advantage of some of the department store sales or maybe doesn't have a second hand store around. I still say a young boy is fine with a nice pair of trousers, shirt and tie. After all, how many young ladies do we see in ball gowns on a cruise.

[sail7seas]

Doone...I was in a very upscale boutique yesterday and saw the most beautiful woman's tuxedo suit that was as formal as anything any lady could wear. It was in a luscious silk satin cloth that draped and fell exquisitely. A cowel necked cream satin top completed the suit and if the price wasn't to choke on ($1,800) , you can be very sure I would have bought and worn that suit with tremendous pleasure. Ladies certainly can wear certain pants and be dressed formally. If Bill Blass, Bob Mackie, Ralph St. Laurent, Anne Klein etc etc all make ladies tuxedos and the stars have been seen wearing them to Academy Award Shows, I certainly agree that pants on women CAN be appropriately formal.

[superstein61]

Ladies certainly can wear certain pants and be dressed formally.
TSK, tsk, tsk - not according to the written HAL dress code which says:

On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns and men usually wear business suits or tuxedos. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

and don't try and get out of it by saying it says "usually" - because it also says "usually" for men

[doone]

S7S, that suit sounds beautiful and I agree, if the price wasn't that high, I most definately would have bought it as well. Ladies do not have to wear ball gowns or be limited to just cocktail dresses for formal attire. I love my sequened pant suits and will continue to wear them.

[Opinions]

I thought we were discussing the HAL dress code not the Academy Awards...Perhaps I wiil leave my tie home if the Academy Awards is the new standard...Or maybe wear that designer blue denim suit...Pants may very well be appropriate for women for formal evenings but that is not what the HAL dress code says.

[superstein61]

Ladies do not have to wear ball gowns or be limited to just cocktail dresses for formal attire.

tsk, tsk, tsk - another person who feels ladies do not have to follow the printed HAL dress code but that men do.

Oh my :eek:

[sail7seas]

I'm quite sure I made my point and you understood it.

[superstein61]

I thought we were discussing the HAL dress code not the Academy Awards...Perhaps I wiil leave my tie home if the Academy Awards is the new standard...Or maybe wear that designer blue denim suit...Pants may very well be appropriate for women for formal evenings but that is not what the HAL dress code says.
Agreed - Opinions - and thats my point !!! Some of these folks point religiously to the written HAL code when it comes to men wearing a jacket - but then ignore that printed code when it comes to themselves or children.

they can not have it both ways !!!

[lknick]

On the QE2 last year, my lady wore a man's white dinner jacket which she had tailored to fit, a white pleated dress shirt with pink plaid bowtie and cummerbund, and tux skirt. She was quite a hit and received many compliments.

On the Zuiderdam, my daughter wore her naval mess dress.

I'm sure Super would say they both violated the dress code.

We have now reached the point of ridiculousness!

[superstein61]

On the QE2 last year, my lady wore a man's white dinner jacket which she had tailored to fit, a white pleated dress shirt with pink plaid bowtie and cummerbund, and tux skirt. She was quite a hit and received many compliments.

On the Zuiderdam, my daughter wore her naval mess dress.

I'm sure Super would say they both violated the dress code.

We have now reached the point of ridiculousness!
Actually it is the code itself which is ridiculous. i am simply pointing out how so.

And BTW, formal military dress is always apropos

[sail7seas]

lknick.....


I wish I had been present in order to enjoy seeing your group enter the dining room. You must have all turned heads with how wonderful you all looked. Congratulations on being patriach to such a family.


(...and I am so tempted to play copycat to your lady. I love the sound of her outfit. I would love wearing that look.)

[Esme]

Doone...I was in a very upscale boutique yesterday and saw the most beautiful woman's tuxedo suit that was as formal as anything any lady could wear. It was in a luscious silk satin cloth that draped and fell exquisitely. A cowel necked cream satin top completed the suit and if the price wasn't to choke on ($1,800) , you can be very sure I would have bought and worn that suit with tremendous pleasure. Ladies certainly can wear certain pants and be dressed formally. If Bill Blass, Bob Mackie, Ralph St. Laurent, Anne Klein etc etc all make ladies tuxedos and the stars have been seen wearing them to Academy Award Shows, I certainly agree that pants on women CAN be appropriately formal.


:confused: Did you mean Ralph Lauren or Yves St. Laurent? Don't think I have ever heard of Ralph. St. Laurent.

[sail7seas]

As always, Esme....I am most appreciative that you correct me. Many thanks. One must be so careful about a 'slip of the tongue' as the whole message would have no meaning when making such an error.

[TedC]

Perhaps Ralph and Yves "merged."

[RevNeal]

and don't try and get out of it by saying it says "usually" - because it also says "usually" for men

Indeed ... men usually wear tuxedos or suits; when they're not being usual, they are supposed to at least wear the required minimum: jacket and tie. :) When they breaking the rules they forego the jacket and tie. :) It may nearly be time for me to post my joke Dress Code ... that, or perhaps, do another one especially for Superstein61. :) I'll have to give this some thought ... could be fun.

[mmacdcc]

TSK, tsk, tsk - not according to the written HAL dress code which says:

On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns and men usually wear business suits or tuxedos. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

and don't try and get out of it by saying it says "usually" - because it also says "usually" for men
And men can wear kilts and be formal, so the pants/skirts thing goes both ways. ;)

[RISKMGR]

Forget the HAL dress code ****'s.....Sipperstein speaks the truth....Been there done that .........more times than I can recall.


Bash on you dogs.....you know who you are!

Ahhh - here we go again.

IGNORE THE Dress Police folks here who get so bent out of shape over what others wear, it isn't funny. You sound like you will look quite presentable. SKIP THE JACKET. in 99% of the cases, no one on board will care. However occassionally you will find someone who looks down upon you because you don't meet their standards of attire. Ignore them and enjoy yourself !!!

BTW - I rebelled at Formal Night on the Zuiderdam this summer - and had no problem at all. And I didn't even wear a tie. One night, a fancy Cuban shirt - the other, a fancy Mexican shirt.

OK - now get ready for the dress police here to start bashing me for my views :D

OH - and ignore those who want to shun you to the Lido or worse yet, make you eat in your room !!!

[dakrewser]

Forget the HAL dress code ****'s.....

Likewise, please ignore the dress code anarchists. Wear what makes you feel comfortable, but be aware that dressing down may call you to the attention of the maitre d' who may request you change.....

-dave

[mcduck]

superstein61 the more that I read your responses, the more I like you. It is unbelieveable that the dress police want young kids dressed up in a sports coat or suit that they may never wear again! Lighten up a little, they are only kids, and if they are in a shirt and tie - give it a rest and pay attention to your own table.

[dakrewser]

give it a rest and pay attention to your own table.
One might suggest the same to you.....

-dave

[mcduck]

Hey - there will be no problem at our table. We will be dressed up, but really do not care if our tablemates are not. Two cruises back, the family of four at our table did not pack to dress according "to the rules" and were very apologetic. We told them to relax and enjoy the dinners and cruise. They were great company, no matter what they were wearing. Getting ones shorts in a knot about whether a young child is wearing a jacket or not is beyound silly, even for this board.

[superstein61]

Thanks Riskmgr and McDuck !!!

Glad to see there are some folks with common sense out there ;)

[superstein61]

Hey - there will be no problem at our table. We will be dressed up, but really do not care if our tablemates are not. Two cruises back, the family of four at our table did not pack to dress according "to the rules" and were very apologetic. We told them to relax and enjoy the dinners and cruise. They were great company, no matter what they were wearing. Getting ones shorts in a knot about whether a young child is wearing a jacket or not is beyound silly, even for this board.
Adreed wholeheartedly. No one has ever adequately answered why so many people get bent out of shape over what OTHERS wear. no one is forcing their choices on what to wear on anyone else. What someone wears has no impact on what kind of person they are

[dakrewser]

What someone wears has no impact on what kind of person they are
No, it doesn't. But whether or not they follow the rules and conventions is certainly telling....

-dave

[superstein61]

No, it doesn't. But whether or not they follow the rules and conventions is certainly telling....

-dave
Hmmm - so you've never broken a rule in your life dear Dave. I doubt it.

So that certainly is telling . . . .

[jima53]

Formal night on the Zaandam saw everything from Tux to flaming red jacket and red tie, to younger men in their 20's and 30's dining in sport shirts with no coat or tie. Dress code was obviously not enforced on any night, including casual night when some wore shorts. Sorry but the guidelines are set up well advance with plenty of other options and formal should be formal for those that want it. The dining room isn't a required eating spot. You can have the dinner in your birthday suit in your cabin, or try the very good lido. Just as you don't want to be required or infringed on with dressing as you wish, don't ruin our formal evening.

Jim

[dakrewser]

Hmmm - so you've never broken a rule in your life dear Dave. I doubt it.

So that certainly is telling . . . .
Inadvertantly? Certainly. But I've never, to my knowledge, openly flouted the rules or conventions since leaving college. Civilization is based on a mutual respect for rules and conventions. Mature adults know and respect that.

-dave

[RevNeal]

Formal night on the Zaandam saw everything from Tux to flaming red jacket and red tie, to younger men in their 20's and 30's dining in sport shirts with no coat or tie. Dress code was obviously not enforced on any night, including casual night when some wore shorts.

Wow ... talk about a major difference between cruises on the same ship! YIKES!

[michmike]

Goodness, 161 (now 162) to beat THIS topic to death again.. I still subscribe to the notion that we all ought to carry paint guns aboard and simply splat any that offend us, with a pellet of iridescent orange.. OR we could all register a different color so that we could , with a quick glance, see just whom has offended whom...

My tux will be waiting in my stateroom as usual..cuz I work in a prison and I've SEEN what happens to those who don't follow the rules..

so dress as you will at your own peril..... DARE to leave your lounge chair sitting empty except for your towel and a book and then come back 90 min later and get huffy with ME for taking YOUR chair... light up a cigarette anywhere near me... alllow your little darlin to swim in the poll in his or her diaper... and SPLAT!!!! You're dead meat... and don't take offense.... you got off lightly in my book..

[superstein61]

Inadvertantly? Certainly. But I've never, to my knowledge, openly flouted the rules or conventions since leaving college. Civilization is based on a mutual respect for rules and conventions. Mature adults know and respect that.

-dave

Hmmmm - I find it hard to believe that, lets say, you never exceeded the speed limit since college

[gizmo]

Formal night on the Zaandam saw everything from Tux to flaming red jacket and red tie
Jim
What, no lime green jackets? Maybe red is "IN" this year.

[xpcdoojk]

Likewise, please ignore the dress code anarchists. Wear what makes you feel comfortable, but be aware that dressing down may call you to the attention of the maitre d' who may request you change.....

-dave
Amen! It is amazing the things that people feel comfortable calling their fellow cruisers on an anonymous forum.

jc

[sail7seas]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jima53
Formal night on the Zaandam saw everything from Tux to flaming red jacket and red tie
Jim


What, no lime green jackets? Maybe red is "IN" this year.



Must have been Boston Red Sox Red!!! :D

[dakrewser]

Hmmmm - I find it hard to believe that, lets say, you never exceeded the speed limit since college
There are also laws about impeding the flow of traffic.....

-dave

[superstein61]

There are also laws about impeding the flow of traffic.....

-dave
Hmmm - so you are now admitting you have broken rules. You sound like another flip flopper to me :D

[xpcdoojk]

Super

You have presented your arguement, and it was not convincing to me, but I am sure that there are fellow crusaders out there that agree with it, but now you have just evolved into the person with the final word is the winner. Typical crusader, who isn't here to make sure that both sides of the arguement are presented, but has to make sure that they win. Sorry, you lose in this forum if there were an election of readers here I am certain your arguement would fail to carry the day. However, the winner is really a false goal, because the real world is what the real world is. The cruiseline determines the rules and whether they will enforce them. Unfortunately, most of them will not have the courage to enforce their rules on non-conformists, and in reality you will have a good probability of eating in your cuban shirt. Of course, there is a real probability that they will enforce it and then you won't get to eat in the dining room on formal night. It is a disservice to tell new cruisers on HAL that they can ignore the formal dining dress suggestions, and your continuance of your pointless crusade is wrong. I am quite sure that before this week is up that you will have posted 25 more snide remarks and reframed your arguement 15 ways to h e double hockey sticks. Be aware that your continual crusade is viewed as a pain in the bottom by most members of this forum.... You seem bright enough to not waste everyone's time including your own, but you keep proving that belief wrong.:D :p :rolleyes:

love jc:eek:

[MonandDave]

How and when does one hire a dress suit from Hal.
This is our first experience of a formal cruise.We have only been on a "cheapie" around the Med,and dress was informal. My SO does not really want to fly his formal gear from the UK, due to weight restrictions,so it would "suit" him to hire from Hal.

[doone]

MonandDave, my dad has used www.cruiselineformal.com to rent a tux for his cruises. He has never had a problem, great people to deal with. Good luck and enjoy your cruise.

[MonandDave]

MonandDave, my dad has used www.cruiselineformal.com to rent a tux for his cruises. He has never had a problem, great people to deal with. Good luck and enjoy your cruise.undefined


Many Thanks. Will Do.
We are so looking forward to our cruise, although not going until June 05.
We are touring Rockies first,then Alaska cruise on Volendam.
We have toured in USA previously,but this is our first time to Canada and Alaska.

[xpcdoojk]

undefined


Many Thanks. Will Do.
We are so looking forward to our cruise, although not going until June 05.
We are touring Rockies first,then Alaska cruise on Volendam.
We have toured in USA previously,but this is our first time to Canada and Alaska.
sounds like a great holiday. Enjoy!:cool:

Where in the Rockies are you going? They cover a whole lot of real estate, fyi. :D

jc

[doone]

Your welcome. Sounds like a fantastic trip you have put together, enjoy.

[bkreader]

I surely hope the DH is going to fit into his black suit - he's losing weight as fast as he can!

Jane

[xpcdoojk]

changing weight is a good reason to book your tuxedo thru the suggested vendor. Because if you are going continue to lose or gain, you can have one while you are on the cruise that is the right size, and won't waste your money buying a suit you can't wear again.


jc

[superstein61]

Super

You have presented your arguement, and it was not convincing to me, but I am sure that there are fellow crusaders out there that agree with it, but now you have just evolved into the person with the final word is the winner. Typical crusader, who isn't here to make sure that both sides of the arguement are presented, but has to make sure that they win. Sorry, you lose in this forum if there were an election of readers here I am certain your arguement would fail to carry the day. However, the winner is really a false goal, because the real world is what the real world is. The cruiseline determines the rules and whether they will enforce them. Unfortunately, most of them will not have the courage to enforce their rules on non-conformists, and in reality you will have a good probability of eating in your cuban shirt. Of course, there is a real probability that they will enforce it and then you won't get to eat in the dining room on formal night. It is a disservice to tell new cruisers on HAL that they can ignore the formal dining dress suggestions, and your continuance of your pointless crusade is wrong. I am quite sure that before this week is up that you will have posted 25 more snide remarks and reframed your arguement 15 ways to h e double hockey sticks. Be aware that your continual crusade is viewed as a pain in the bottom by most members of this forum.... You seem bright enough to not waste everyone's time including your own, but you keep proving that belief wrong.:D :p :rolleyes:

love jc:eek:
Ooooh - I must have touched a nerve with you, huh. You know what - you've been posting snide remarks throughout this thread trying to provoke me into an argument - and I have ignored you - which I will continue to do.

Cheerio

[JeffCoud]

Actually, if your suit fits correctly it should be quite comfortable to wear. I love mine...made to measure since I can't buy off the rack too well (aka, I wear athletic cut). So there lol! :) I'd rather look swank than skank on formal night.

Jeff

And why not show some respect for people who want to be comfortable and not follow silly outdated traditions?

[superstein61]

Actually, if your suit fits correctly it should be quite comfortable to wear. I love mine...made to measure since I can't buy off the rack too well (aka, I wear athletic cut). So there lol! :) I'd rather look swank than skank on formal night.

Jeff

Welll - that shows you just how little you really know.

First, my suits fit fine - I have lots of them. But no one can realistically claim to be more comfortable in a jacket and tie than they would be in an open collar shirt.

Second - like many of the dress code police - its sad that you have to resort to insults ("swank not skank") to try and make your point. That in itself shows you have no real argument to stand on

[RevNeal]

But no one can realistically claim to be more comfortable in a jacket and tie than they would be in an open collar shirt.

I can realistically say that, on elegant formal nights, I feel more comfortable in a jacket and tie than I would feel if I were dressed in an open collar shirt. In a jacket and a tie on formal night I am dressed in accord with the Cruise Line's code, and hence with respect for my hosts wishes. In an open collar shirt I would be horribly self-conscious of being improperly dressed and, hence, I would be extremely UNcomfortable.

Allow me to anticipate your retort: "But what about physical comfort?" Good question! I find myself to be JUST AS PHYSICALLY COMFORTABLE in a suit and tie or clerics as I am in an open collar shirt. My dress shirts and tux shirts all fit me properly, hence my ties (when I wear them) are not too tight; neither are my clerical collars (clerics should stand away from the neck about 1/2 inch) ... indeed, my clerics CAN'T be too tight or uncomfortable around my neck or I wouldn't be able to preach while wearing them. In short, because of how often I must wear either ties or clerics, and because of what I must do while wearing them (preaching, teaching, celebrating Holy Communion, etc. -- all of which require breathing and speaking room) I cannot tolerate my shirt collars to be too tight. They MUST be comfortable. Hence ... YES ... I am JUST AS comfortable in a neck tie or clerics as I would be in an open collar. And, that leaves the psychological factor ... and, psychologically, I would be horribly UNcomfortable if I were dressed improperly.

[MonandDave]

sounds like a great holiday. Enjoy!:cool:

Where in the Rockies are you going? They cover a whole lot of real estate, fyi. :D

jc


Fly to Calgary then on to Banff, Lake Louise,Jasper,Sun Peaksand Kamloops.
Then we go to Victoria and over to Vancouver, where we pick up the cruise.
It is our first organised tour (may be the last). We usually hire a car and do our own itinary. Thanks for the interest.

[xpcdoojk]

Fly to Calgary then on to Banff, Lake Louise,Jasper,Sun Peaksand Kamloops.
Then we go to Victoria and over to Vancouver, where we pick up the cruise.
It is our first organised tour (may be the last). We usually hire a car and do our own itinary. Thanks for the interest.
Ah, the Canadian Rockies, beautiful. Well that is a ton of windshield time to drive from Calgary to Victoria, and about 1/2 of it is pretty spectacular, parts of it are a lot boring. I anticipate you will have a great time!

jc

[xpcdoojk]

Ooooh - I must have touched a nerve with you, huh. You know what - you've been posting snide remarks throughout this thread trying to provoke me into an argument - and I have ignored you - which I will continue to do.

CheerioYou really ought to concentrate on reading what others have said instead of leading your pointless crusade. That is the only nerve you have touched with me. I think you are wasting everyone's time with a crusade. Got it superdude?!:rolleyes: Here is my motto, crusaders suck. :p

You have laid out your arguements, and they are the same predictable arguements that I have been reading here at CC for five years. They occur in every cruiseline forum on a weekly basis. Therefore, while your arguements may strike you as particularly brilliant, and that you are winning some fictional debate the reality is that you are performing the ritual of all people who want to tell society to shove it. "I am an individual, society is not going to tell me how to dress or behave. I am at the maturity level of a spoiled five year old and I don't care." Really, convincing stuff.:rolleyes: :eek:

I am not one of the HAL long time posters, and I really don't feel that I have any knowledge about their product, other than second hand. I am here to learn stuff, and I am not here to read about your need to be special, but unfortunately, that is about all that you type about.

jc

[jhannah]

Okay boys ... go to your rooms! ;)

[xpcdoojk]

Okay boys ... go to your rooms! ;)
Gee, I thought I was being nice about it, too. ;)

jc

[JeffCoud]

Welll - that shows you just how little you really know.
First, my suits fit fine - I have lots of them. But no one can realistically claim to be more comfortable in a jacket and tie than they would be in an open collar shirt.

Actually, I know quite a bit. I am as comfortable in one as in another. In fact, I would be more comfortable in a spiffy black suit because I was adhering to the dress code. I'd rather not stick out like a sore thumb and I respect the ambience of the evening. Frankly, I like playing roulette all dressed up!

Second - like many of the dress code police - its sad that you have to resort to insults ("swank not skank") to try and make your point. That in itself shows you have no real argument to stand on

Hmmm, wasn't an insult, but if you want to be hypersensitive go right ahead. I was expressing what I'd rather be. I'd rather be swank than skank. That is far different than calling you a skank, which I did not do.

So there lol!

Jeff

[superstein61]

I can realistically say that, on elegant formal nights, I feel more comfortable in a jacket and tie than I would feel if I were dressed in an open collar shirt. .
Oops - my apologies rev - I should have qualified my statement with most normal people :D

[superstein61]

You really ought to concentrate on reading what others have said instead of leading your pointless crusade. That is the only nerve you have touched with me. I think you are wasting everyone's time with a crusade. Got it superdude?!:rolleyes: Here is my motto, crusaders suck. :p

You have laid out your arguements, and they are the same predictable arguements that I have been reading here at CC for five years. They occur in every cruiseline forum on a weekly basis. Therefore, while your arguements may strike you as particularly brilliant, and that you are winning some fictional debate the reality is that you are performing the ritual of all people who want to tell society to shove it. "I am an individual, society is not going to tell me how to dress or behave. I am at the maturity level of a spoiled five year old and I don't care." Really, convincing stuff.:rolleyes: :eek:

I am not one of the HAL long time posters, and I really don't feel that I have any knowledge about their product, other than second hand. I am here to learn stuff, and I am not here to read about your need to be special, but unfortunately, that is about all that you type about.

jc
YAWN

[superstein61]

Hmmm, wasn't an insult, but if you want to be hypersensitive go right ahead. I was expressing what I'd rather be. I'd rather be swank than skank. That is far different than calling you a skank, which I did not do.

So there lol!

Jeff

Hmmmm - try and weasal out of it - but your use of swank not skank is there for all to see. Once again, a member of the dress code police fails to make an argument without resorting to insults and name calling. SIGH

[xpcdoojk]

YAWN
Thanks Supershtick for repeating my cogent statements! I am repeating one of your more coherent ones to return the favor.:p :D

jc

[bepsf]

This has clearly become one person's forum for personal slams and tiresome crusades :mad:

It is no longer informative, fun or remotely interesting...:cool:

[MonandDave]

Ah, the Canadian Rockies, beautiful. Well that is a ton of windshield time to drive from Calgary to Victoria, and about 1/2 of it is pretty spectacular, parts of it are a lot boring. I anticipate you will have a great time!

jc

We anticipate a great time too. We will enjoy the "boring" parts as it is so different to here. I can just imagine all that space, and driving for ever without getting anywhere, unbelievable. Then at the end we have the cruise on Volendam, and all the scenery of Alaska. I will be asking questions nearing the date re excursions etc, but to get back to original "thread," we expect to enjoy the formal nights on Volendam.
By the way "here" is Yorkshire,England, where you can't go very far without getting somewhere.

[xpcdoojk]

MonandDave

I spent a week a couple of years ago in and around the islands of the Northwest, and Victoria and Buchart gardens were a real delight. We also, visited San Juan island in Washington state, and had a blast riding scooters around the island watching whales and seals. Visiting some of the yacht harbors, just really pleasant. Lake Louise and Banff are high on the list of places that my wife demands me to take her someday, and from everything I have seen about that portion of the Canadian Rockies it looks truly beautiful.

I have not been to Yorkshire, even though I used to have a Yorkshire terrier, we visited England in September, but we were in London and Essex. Lovely, lovely.

jc

[superstein61]

This has clearly become one person's forum for personal slams and tiresome crusades :mad:

It is no longer informative, fun or remotely interesting...:cool:
Yes xpcdoojk sure is trying his hardest to pick a fight with me - but no worry, I will just keep ignoring him ;)

Other than that, the thread still has plenty of useful life left :D