Admirality law

[chloes nana]

Can someone explain the Admirality law when onboard a ship to me? Who has true jurisdiction? I will be in the Mediterranean.:rolleyes:

[Shorex]

Can someone explain the Admirality law when onboard a ship to me? Who has true jurisdiction? I will be in the Mediterranean.:rolleyes:

Admiralty law is very complex. If you have specific legal questions they should be addressed to an attorney who practices admiralty law.

[chloes nana]

Admiralty law is very complex. If you have specific legal questions they should be addressed to an attorney who practices admiralty law.
I really don't plan to do anything illegal, I just wanted to understand the jurisdiction of the captain and the home country of the ship vs. the country where you port in and if any of the bodies of water around the mediterranean are actually international waters. I just read a little about it and was trying ti understand it better, don't think I need an attorney for that.:rolleyes:

[catl331]

... and if any of the bodies of water around the mediterranean are actually international waters. :rolleyes:Most of your cruise will be in international waters - anytime you are more than 12 miles offshore from any country - roughly 1/2 hour after leaving port if you are going straight out.

[Shorex]

Sorry if I upset you. The truth is that the internet is full of bad and misleading legal advice. While CC is wonderful for so many reasons, these reasons do not include dispensing legal (or medical) advice. Admiralty law is a complex category of law that even very few attorneys have any training or experience in. The "top of the head" answers are often worse than no answers.

There may be some legal websites that offer generalized information that can answer your questions, but I would caution against relying on such advice -- if the advice can affect you adversely in any way.

Have a wonderful cruise - the Med is great.

[chloes nana]

There may be some legal websites that offer generalized information that can answer your questions, but I would caution against relying on such advice -- if the advice can affect you adversely in any way.

Have a wonderful cruise - the Med is great.
there is no advice that would affect me adversely. I just wondered what it actually states is all. I don't intend to do anything covert, just saw it mentioned on another thread and wondered what it was all about is all. Don't really need a technical law version just a simple answer. thanks

[Taxguy77]

Sorry if I upset you. The truth is that the internet is full of bad and misleading legal advice. While CC is wonderful for so many reasons, these reasons do not include dispensing legal (or medical) advice. Admiralty law is a complex category of law that even very few attorneys have any training or experience in. The "top of the head" answers are often worse than no answers.There may be some legal websites that offer generalized information that can answer your questions, but I would caution against relying on such advice -- if the advice can affect you adversely in any way.

Have a wonderful cruise - the Med is great.
I'm an accountant...Same thing applies!:eek:Think tax.

[jhannah]

Don't really need a technical law version just a simple answer. thanks It seems like shorex is trying to say there is no simple answer. Some facets are common throughout the world. But countries have their own set of Admiralty laws. As I understand it, the general rule is that when a ship is in International Waters, jurisdiction lies with the nation in which the vessel is flagged. But like all general rules, there are exceptions.

[chloes nana]

It seems like shorex is trying to say there is no simple answer. Some facets are common throughout the world. But countries have their own set of Admiralty laws. As I understand it, the general rule is that when a ship is in International Waters, jurisdiction lies with the nation in which the vessel is flagged. But like all general rules, there are exceptions.
Thanks Jim:o

[sail7seas]

I'm getting the sense you imagine Admiralty Law to fit in one textbook and basics could easily be explained here but that simply is not the case. It is highly technical and very specialized field of law. Only a very small percentage of attorneys have any knowledge in this field.

There is no way to qive a quick 'overview'.
Sorry if I have misunderstood your request and have responded in a way that is of no help to you.

[fann1sh]

Here's another thread on the Ask a Question board that discusses how complicated this really is.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=961483

Here's that Wiki page that one poster describes as "decent":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_law

I'm a lawyer. Shorex's post was curt, but the information was true: very complex. No reason why you can't read and get a feel for why.

[kryos]

Can someone explain the Admirality law when onboard a ship to me? Who has true jurisdiction? I will be in the Mediterranean.:rolleyes:On the ship, the Captain is God.

In ports, I guess it would be the jurisdiction of the specific port. You break a law while on shore, you deal with that specific country's legal system. The captain then would have very little say.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[bbq]

If you have a legal issue with the cruise line that requires a lawyer to represent you should always use a law firm/lawyer which has and advertizes this expertise. Always! One should also be aware that the statue of limitations on the high seas is one year in contrast to two years for all other cases in the USA.

The captain has the ulitmate authority on the high seas. He can order you to stay in your cabin for any reason (typically if you have nero virus it's for for 3 days), put you in shackles etc.

Good Luck.

[Susie51]

OP, thanks for your question. I had no idea it was such a complex law.

[pipedreams62]

On the ship, the Captain is God.





http://www.geocities.com/alcus2/joe_flynn__.jpg

[tomc]

It's like radio law: There's the part that Everyone Knows, which usually isn't true; and the part the FCC legislates, which people say, "Really??"

For instance: It's forbidden to play the National Anthem after the sign-off announcement. Or to wish someone a happy birthday. And you might get in trouble for having a penny near the control board.

[prescottbob]

It's like radio law: There's the part that Everyone Knows, which usually isn't true; and the part the FCC legislates, which people say, "Really??"

For instance: It's forbidden to play the National Anthem after the sign-off announcement. Or to wish someone a happy birthday. And you might get in trouble for having a penny near the control board.

...child of the 50's the late night sign off was always followed by the National Anthem (we're talking the B & W station pattern signature here).

I suppose my question is (although not applicable to 24/7 radio & television feeds today): why can't a station (either TV/radio) play the national anthem anytime it damn well wants to? (or did I read your post incorrectly?)

Thanks.

"A mind is a terrible thing to loose, but loosing one's liberty is criminal".)

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)

[chloes nana]

OP, thanks for your question. I had no idea it was such a complex law.
neither did I,

[DizzyDallasDi]

All laws are complex. Period.

Diane

[tomc]

prescottbob -- Why can't a station (either TV/radio) play the National Anthem anytime it damn well wants to? It can; just not before the sign-on or after the sign-off announcement. The first thing a station must put on the air is the sign-on (WICC, Bridgeport) and the last thing it says is the sign-off (WICC, Bridgeport). Nothing else comes before the former or after the latter. You do the N.A. between them.

Now, in real life, the Feds aren't going to say anything. But that *is* the law. And you don't include the state.

[Host Mick]

Can someone explain the Admirality law when onboard a ship to me? Who has true jurisdiction? I will be in the Mediterranean.:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, there's no big legal book that codifies international law or admiralty law. What Admiralty law is a big web of treaties between signatory nations. Many are based on tradition such as the 12 mile territorial limit. Others are based on a mutual need such as MARPOL the MARitime POLlution treaty and SOLAS the Safety of Life At Sea treaty that standardizes safety equipment and procedures.
But as with many things in life, treaties and international law are only as good as your ability to enforce them. The 12 mile limit for example is commonly recognized but some nations claim more. The US declares a 200 mile EEZ or Exclusive Economic Zone for fisheries and minerals.

As far as jurisdiction, that also varies. Generally, the flag nation has jurisdiction over a vessel under her flag. But there are, again treaties and agreements. For US based ships, the lines have agreements with the US government that amongst other things allow US authorities such as the FBI to investigate crimes committed in any waters against US citizens. They also have to agree to participate in the CDC Vessel Sanitation program.

Like others have said, it can be very complicated but there are a lot of on-line resources if you're looking for curiosity's sake.

[Chris-M]

Hi. As far as I know on international waters you (as an individual) are subject to the law of the country under which flag the ship sails. Different rules applies to the ship.

[big green]

Hi. As far as I know on international waters you (as an individual) are subject to the law of the country under which flag the ship sails. Different rules applies to the ship.

Yhis is not correct with the recent legislation passed by the US Congress--
commit any crime on a US Citizen on a cruise ship even if it is in international waters and the FBI will charge you and prosecute.

BG

[maxout]

Hi. As far as I know on international waters you (as an individual) are subject to the law of the country under which flag the ship sails. Different rules applies to the ship.

Welcome to Cruise Critic :D

In case you weren't aware of it, this thread you have dug up is over 2 yrs old.

[Chris-M]

Hi everyone. Thx for the welcome.
:eek: Ohh, I just now noticed the date.

[Sunshine91]

Welcome to Cruise Critic :D

In case you weren't aware of it, this thread you have dug up is over 2 yrs old.

But it means a newbie actually tried, and was able, to use the search function! ;)

[jtl513]

But it means a newbie actually tried, and was able, to use the search function! But how? Try searching for it using the title and you won't find it because search won't go back past Aug 26. :confused:

[jcrandle]

And I thought searching was in violation of Admiralty law!

[billie5]

I just wondered what it actually states is all
This is one of the reasons legal advice on public boards like CC is so bad. On nebulous issues, such as those in Admiralty law, case law is more important than what "it actually states," whatever "it" may refer to.

Bill

[Sunshine91]

But how? Try searching for it using the title and you won't find it because search won't go back past Aug 26. :confused:

Maybe I just got lucky? Using the SEARCH box at the very top of the page (the word SEARCH is in all caps, brownish-reddish color), I typed the phrase "admiralty law." Clicked the arrow. The top half of the next page looked like standard CC pages & maybe some ads. But the lower half were all links to message board threads. One I looked at was started in 2008, another one in 2006.

I'm no internet geek. I know how to get where I want to go & not a whole lot more. :o Hope this works for you. :)

[jtl513]

Maybe I just got lucky? ... Well, Admin's Announcement on Board Status ( http://boards.cruisecritic.com/announcement.php?f=171&a=269 ) still says "Search is working for some things but results are not coming back prior to August 26, 2011" so I guess it is also working differently for different people. ;)

p.s. - when I do the Seach now, I find just this thread, because you used the words in a recent posting. When I did it before your post all I got was "Sorry, no matches ..."

[goose30]

Welcome to Cruise Critic :D

In case you weren't aware of it, this thread you have dug up is over 2 yrs old.

OMG! Did the law change very much?

[tcook052]

But it means a newbie actually tried, and was able, to use the search function! ;)


Yes and should be applauded for doing so, at least IMHO. :)

BTW to add to the discussion it's more commonly referred to as "maritime law" as the Admiralty part is a throwback to the days when the British Admiralty ruled the waves.

[Chris-M]

Yhis is not correct with the recent legislation passed by the US Congress--
commit any crime on a US Citizen on a cruise ship even if it is in international waters and the FBI will charge you and prosecute.

BG

thx for the update.
Meanwhile i managed to find some info on it, but i`m not sure if this is still true, it`s from 2005 i guess:
"
The principal law under which the U.S. exercises its Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction (SMTJ) is set forth in Section 7 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Under this statute, the U.S. has jurisdiction over crimes committed on a ship if:


the ship, regardless of flag, is a U.S.-owned vessel, either whole or in part, regardless of the nationality of the victim or the perpetrator;
the crime occurs in the U.S. territorial sea (within 12 miles of the coast), regardless of the nationality of the vessel, the victim or the perpetrator; or
the victim or perpetrator is a U.S. national on any vessel that departed from or will arrive in a U.S. port."


Source: http://www2.fbi.gov/congress/congress05/swecker121305.htm

P.M.: if i`m not allowed to link the source pls tell me and i`ll remove it.

[billie5]

Much more than that.

Some jurisdiction extends to contiguous zone (more than 12 miles!)
Some jurisdiction extends to incidents which can "affect" a port, notwithstanding where the event took place
Some issues can involve federal/state joint jurisdiction, and even maritime/common law joint governance

and so forth.....

Using Google, or even a law school textbook, can be terribly misleading by giving the "simple" version of issues.

Bill