A Word About Formal Night Appearance

[FNSIII]

During the trip to FLL my luggage was lost by the inferior airline that years ago advertised that you could "Fly the XXXXXXXX Way" I won't go into my reasons for not identifying them straight up but will return to the subject of this post. I bought, in one heck of a hurry, a shirt, tie and dark slacks and shoes as it looked like we would be without luggage. It was too late to rent a tux and my lady was able to put together a sundress with accessories that would have looked great. It just came down to we didn't want to miss Formal night. The cost for these items was low because I was dipping into discretionary funds that we wanted for "FUN" ashore. Blessedly our luggage was delivered at 3:00 AM on the Sunday we sailed.

It comes down to this. Someone might not be able to put on the dog because of reasons far beyond their control. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt before looking down my nose. Any thoughts????

[kenevenpar]

It comes down to this. Someone might not be able to put on the dog because of reasons far beyond their control. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt before looking down my nose. Any thoughts????

You are much more generous (and probably a nicer person;)) than I. If my clothes did not arrive timely, I, like you, would try to get replacements, or go to the Lido. Someone showing up in less than requirred attire is more than likely doing so intentionaly.

Ken

[May4]

You have my word I won't look down my nose at a fellow passenger who has hard luck. I wouldn't. Honest.

Now, a passenger who acts all ugly....whole other story!

I'm glad your luggage arrived even though it was at 3:00 a.m.

I'm as curious as can be about why it was delivered in the wee hours.

Did you get a chance to wear the new duds you bought?

[FNSIII]

The airline contracts with local delivery companies. I told the hotel that "I don't give a X#$% what time it arrives...please call me!" they did and I slept better for the rest of the night. I am waiting on a response from the airline before I post the problem we had.

Frank

[Copper10-8]

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//d6/0/d601c7003d2d83edb7e6e3ef94d68dd3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfphotocraft/2803184235/)

Kinda gone downhill fast, haven't they?

[FNSIII]

Copper... I am 10-7, 10-42. Retired Highway Patrol

[mudscraper]

OPs Luggage wasn`t lost. He received it at 3am.
Probably a verrry sloooww baggage carosel.:)


Rich

[nailsmhc79]

I will agree with you completely...cause it happened to me way back on our first cruise and I attended Formal night with white dockers & a polo shirt from the store on board the ship. No luggage except our carry on till we docked in Barbados 3 days later.

[pipedreams62]

I will agree with you completely...cause it happened to me way back on our first cruise and I attended Formal night with white dockers & a polo shirt from the store on board the ship. No luggage except our carry on till we docked in Barbados 3 days later.


http://anderson2010.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/ted%20knight.jpg

[Copper10-8]

Copper... I am 10-7, 10-42. Retired Highway Patrol

Good for you, Sir! Enjoy!

[QueensChick]

It's best to give people the benefit of the doubt. If someone shows up dressed inappropriately for formal night, I'll assume it couldn't be helped. You can never be sure of another's circumstances.

Pipedreams62... you crack me up! You're alright for a BoSox fan :D

[AZjohn]

Well, let me tell you a story about a man named Jed …. OK, his name was John:D.
Northern Europe cruise on Celebrity, luggage missing for 3 days (arrived at our first port on 3rd day). 1st Formal was second night, clothes we were wearing on plane now at the ships laundry facility, only thing we could purchase at the ship store was a jogging suit.

Never will forget some of the looks we got trying to make our way down to the Lido (or whatever Celebrity calls theirs) that evening. These people had no idea that we had nothing formal (or even nice) to ware that evening but yet judged us for being less than.

This is why I have zero tolerance to others that get their panties in a wad in regards to what people are wearing on a ship. Have no time for those kind of people.:(

I will get off my soap box now and just stay out of debating what people should ware on a cruise. I could care less!;)

Have a great cruise,
John

[lettienets]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage I carry on my best formal night outfit, (the one most expensive to replace) a bathing suit, sling backs, undies and a casual outfit. Then I am all set for any unforeseen problem.

[Copper10-8]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage I carry on my best formal night outfit, (the one most expensive to replace) a bathing suit, sling backs, undies and a casual outfit. Then I am all set for any unforeseen problem.

A slingshot bathing suit, you say? OK, then but with formal shoes and socks!:eek:

[kryos]

It comes down to this. Someone might not be able to put on the dog because of reasons far beyond their control. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt before looking down my nose. Any thoughts????
My thoughts are that in a case like this, the dining room manager will be made aware of your "challenges." So, he will understand and you will have no problems dining in the main dining room wearing whatever you happen to have, be it formal or any other kind of night.

Now ... as for everyone else ... plain and simple ... if they don't like it, they are more than welcome to get up and leave. Frankly, I wouldn't be much concerned about what they thought. If they were friendly toward me and my family, I might choose to give an explanation later on during the meal, but other than that ... they didn't pay for me and my family's cruise, right? So, as far as I'm concerned, I don't owe them beans in the way of an explanation. So, I would simply sit down ... wearing whatever I happened to be wearing, and have a great dinner and a great time. If others are bothered by it ... oh, well ... too bad, so ... so sad.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Northern Europe cruise on Celebrity, luggage missing for 3 days (arrived at our first port on 3rd day). 1st Formal was second night, clothes we were wearing on plane now at the ships laundry facility, only thing we could purchase at the ship store was a jogging suit.

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Never will forget some of the looks we got trying to make our way down to the Lido (or whatever Celebrity calls theirs) that evening. These people had no idea that we had nothing formal (or even nice) to ware that evening but yet judged us for being less than.
You were very accommodating to be dining in the Lido that night. If it were me, and I wanted to enjoy the main dining room, that's exactly where I would have gone. I would have made sure the front desk notified the dining room manager about my problem so that there would have been no problems at the door, and then as far as the other passengers are concerned, if they had a problem, then it would have been their problem, not mine.

There are certain people, as I have discovered, who seem to want to "police" their fellow man ... dress codes, enforcement of petty rules, etc. My feeling is that my issue is with the ship and the people in charge of maintaining order there. As long as they can work around my lack of formal attire, then I see no reason why my fellow passengers can't as well.

So, I honestly wouldn't let their stares and attitudes bother me. I'd just smile and go on my way. They'll get over it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AZjohn]

So, I honestly wouldn't let their stares and attitudes bother me. I'd just smile and go on my way. They'll get over it.

Blue skies ...

--rita
I want to cruise with you sometime Rita:D

[ger_77]

AZJohn, I feel your pain - we had the same experience during our first Mediterranean cruise on the Prinsendam. Our luggage arrived 3 days later at our first port of Istanbul, so we missed the first formal night. DH is larger than averge, so they didn't have a tuxedo onboard that he could rent, and our small carry-ons just contained reading materials, cd players and meds. We wore the clothes we had traveled in (the ship laundered them for us every night) and ate in the Lido. The only time we got side-long glances was when we sat down in the lounge for the evening's main show. A lady beside DH look at us with some disdain(we both wore dockers type pants, and golf shirt/t-shirt), so I leaned over and told her that our luggage was delayed and these were the only clothes we had. She warmed up right away and was very pleasant - we ran into each other a number of times throughout the trip and she'd always comment on my "new" clothes. It always bothered me that we were initially judged by what we were wearing, so whenever I see somebody on formal night who isn't dressed to "code", I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

One thing that has definitely changed since that experience is the way we pack our carry-ons. They now contain clothing that can be used for a formal evening in addition to the usual stuff.

Smooth Sailing! :):):)

[Hollyday]

We play by the rules the best we can but past experience has taught me my DH is uncomfortably hot in a suit on a crowded ship. He doesn't mind dressing for dinner (I know he just does it for me) but he will change clothes immediately after. I don't change so I'm sure we're a odd sight to some. We''re not there to please anyone but us so we just don't care what they think. Of course, if someone stares, I look them straight in the eye and tap my nose with my finger a couple times indicating they have something on their nose. They immediately start brushing at their nose and look at me questioningly for any indication that whatever was there is gone. I always get a giggle doing that.

I figure the men that stare and have attitudes are jelous that their significant other made them dress up and you didn't have to. The women that stare are just snobs. Obviously, they all need to brush up on their manner - were they not ever told staring is rude. I wonder if a woman would want to dress formal if she had to wear a hot suit and a choking tie. For formal night maybe it should be manatory for women to wear panty hose. Oh yeah, that would go over well......not.

[Nancyquilts]

A slingshot bathing suit, you say? OK, then but with formal shoes and socks!:eek:

Self portrait, John? Works for me.:D

[Copper10-8]

Self portrait, John? Works for me.:D

Nancy!:eek::eek::eek: I don't wear brown shoes................... much

[fridayeyes]

Our luggage made it, but the ship didn't carry the rental tuxes on-board and the entire shipment for that cruise never arrived. We attended formal night with DH wearing black slacks, sneakers, a white, casual silk shirt and a bolo tie. The upside was that the entire ship knew that no one who had rented a tux gotten theirs, so everyone was accomodating.

On a different ship, my suitcase made it to the porter but never showed up at our door. Carnival gave me a voucher to the onboard shops, then they located my suitcase (in someone else's cabin) two days later.

While I won't deny anyone their personal opinions - I myself think that showing up grossly misattired is wrong - I also think that snide looks or comments directed at other pax are equally disrespectful and equally wrong, if not more so. As the examples above demonstrate, a dress code faux pas may well be unintentional, while a snide remark is a premeditated act.

The responsibility for dress code enforcement falls to HAL, not to individual pax. A passenger who has a concern about the level of that enforcement should take it up with a HAL representative, not with the alleged offender.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Perhaps everyone should just wear their formal clothes on the plane in case their luggage gets lost. :rolleyes:

I mean really it is none of my business why someone isnt dressed in the suggested attire for the evening. How could someone sitting in the back of the dining room wearing khaki pants and polo shirt ruin my dinner in the front of the dining room? Heck even if they were sitting at my table I would still be a southern gentlemen and mind my manners. I prefer to make eye contact with the people I am speaking with and not focus on their attire.

How many people here know the circumstances of their shipmates travel issues before boarding the ship?

How many of you would be willing to stand at the entrance of the main dining room and ask them why they are not dressed appropriately and then either admit them or turn them away based on their answer?

Dress as you will and leave others be. Someday you may be the man or woman whose luggage is sitting at an airport someplace while you are in the middle of the ocean on a cruise. ;)

[suse]

Wow, maybe it's me but I never really noticed people looking at me. I must be used to it. It just would never occur to me to even think about what other people are wearing. Maybe I'm just self-centered on vacation!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

[happyglobetrotter]

Why is it that some people wear their most casual outfits on all formal nights (not only the first one where maybe their luggage was delayed but for the whole cruise) and hang around lounges, shops and bars all night. It happens more and more.

What excuse do they have ? why do they cruise ? why not go to a resort ashore or on a cruise line without dress code...

The right to enjoy their vacation !!!!!!!

A cruise includes formal nights and that should be taken in consideration by them BEFORE they book.

This is my opinion.

[kryos]

The responsibility for dress code enforcement falls to HAL, not to individual pax. A passenger who has a concern about the level of that enforcement should take it up with a HAL representative, not with the alleged offender.
Exactly my point.

A lot of passengers take it upon themselves to play "policeman" with their fellow passengers. And then they can't understand why they get into altercations with them. I've heard of cases where someone actually had the guts to go up to a mom and her child at the pool and tell the mother that her child didn't belong there. Well, maybe if the "cop" had done her research first, she would have realized that there was absolutely no signage back there saying kids were not welcome. That signage changes cruise to cruise. Of course, the mother with the kid told her off. I would have done the exact same thing.

It is up to HAL to enforce the rules ... not other passengers. So, if someone's dress is bothering you, it is up to you to bring it to the attention of a HAL employee (such as the dining room manager or a head waiter) and then leave it up to them to handle it. If they don't handle the situation to your satisfaction, then, of course, you are more than free to escalate your complaint at the front desk. But under no circumstances should someone give "dirty" looks to the person who is not dressed "appropriately" or say something to them. That only invites altercations. And, to be fair, one doesn't know the specific circumstances ... such as maybe a piece of luggage containing all that family's formal wear being lost in transit to the ship. What? Now that whole family is supposed to give up dining in the main dining room due to a situation that is no fault of their own? Maybe they cruise specifically for the formal dining room experience because maybe at home they don't go out to dine very much.

So, I just think we all need to concentrate on enjoying our own cruises and keep our noses out of other people's business. If someone is not dressed appropriately, that's of no concern to me. And if someone else is so bothered by it, then I would politely suggest that THEY leave the dining room and eat elsewhere. If they are not satisfied with HAL's handling of the matter, then may I further suggest that they book their future cruises elsewhere if other passengers' dress bothers them so much? But under no circumstances should passengers get involved in playing "cop" with their fellow passengers. That only results in hard feelings and possible altercations (including physical ones). Not a good thing for anyone onboard.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Wow, maybe it's me but I never really noticed people looking at me. I must be used to it. It just would never occur to me to even think about what other people are wearing. Maybe I'm just self-centered on vacation!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)And self-centered is exactly how you should be when on vacation. You're paying your money and you want to have a good time. I, too, pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to what others are wearing. Oh, sure ... if someone really looks sharp, I might say to myself "wow, wish I had the body to wear that!" But I certainly wouldn't sit there looking down my nose at somebody who I didn't feel was dressed enough. To be honest, I'm way too busy having my own fun to do that.

No, you have the right attitude. Vacations are the time when one should be self-centered and all about having a great time.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Harry1954]

We can dance around the real problem if we want, but I suggest that we should confront it - no one likes 'rule breakers' - and when someone who consciously did not pack appropriate clothes for formal night decides to go anyway, they are 'breaking the rules' - and most of us resent it. If they did not have alternative choices such as Lido or Room Service or Poolside, then it would be different. The truth is they are self-centered and not willing to follow the rules - make up their own instead. These folks are the real problem IMHO and whether we pay attention to them or not while dining is irrelevant.

harry

[babyher]

Exactly my point.

A lot of passengers take it upon themselves to play "policeman" with their fellow passengers. And then they can't understand why they get into altercations with them. I've heard of cases where someone actually had the guts to go up to a mom and her child at the pool and tell the mother that her child didn't belong there. Well, maybe if the "cop" had done her research first, she would have realized that there was absolutely no signage back there saying kids were not welcome. That signage changes cruise to cruise. Of course, the mother with the kid told her off. I would have done the exact same thing.

It is up to HAL to enforce the rules ... not other passengers. So, if someone's dress is bothering you, it is up to you to bring it to the attention of a HAL employee (such as the dining room manager or a head waiter) and then leave it up to them to handle it. If they don't handle the situation to your satisfaction, then, of course, you are more than free to escalate your complaint at the front desk. But under no circumstances should someone give "dirty" looks to the person who is not dressed "appropriately" or say something to them. That only invites altercations. And, to be fair, one doesn't know the specific circumstances ... such as maybe a piece of luggage containing all that family's formal wear being lost in transit to the ship. What? Now that whole family is supposed to give up dining in the main dining room due to a situation that is no fault of their own? Maybe they cruise specifically for the formal dining room experience because maybe at home they don't go out to dine very much.

So, I just think we all need to concentrate on enjoying our own cruises and keep our noses out of other people's business. If someone is not dressed appropriately, that's of no concern to me. And if someone else is so bothered by it, then I would politely suggest that THEY leave the dining room and eat elsewhere. If they are not satisfied with HAL's handling of the matter, then may I further suggest that they book their future cruises elsewhere if other passengers' dress bothers them so much? But under no circumstances should passengers get involved in playing "cop" with their fellow passengers. That only results in hard feelings and possible altercations (including physical ones). Not a good thing for anyone onboard.

Blue skies ...

--rita



And remember Rita, these self appointed police officers don't just limit themselves to cruiseships. they are usually the "Mrs Kravitz' of the neighborhood, the supplyroom police at work etc etc etc. :(

[jhannah]

Perhaps everyone should just wear their formal clothes on the plane in case their luggage gets lost. :rolleyes: It almost used to be that way! In the early years of flight, folks dressed to the nines to travel!

[Copper10-8]

We can dance around the real problem if we want, but I suggest that we should confront it - no one likes 'rule breakers' - and when someone who consciously did not pack appropriate clothes for formal night decides to go anyway, they are 'breaking the rules' - and most of us resent it. If they did not have alternative choices such as Lido or Room Service or Poolside, then it would be different. The truth is they are self-centered and not willing to follow the rules - make up their own instead. These folks are the real problem IMHO and whether we pay attention to them or not while dining is irrelevant.

harry

Me thinks Rita/Kryos gave some outstanding pointers on how to deal with situations like that, which (those 'situations') obviously bother some around this fine site. Bring it, the infamous dress code violation, to the attention of the dining room manager, asst. drm or any head waiter/area supervisor and allow them to handle as they see fit (or don't see fit at all).

Please don't take the law...........excuse me.........suggested dress code, into your own hands unless you're willing to face the consequences, i.e. pointing the proverbial finger, verbal confrontations, disruptions of the elegant dining environment, food fights, mud slinging and/or wrestling, tug 'o wars, rolling on the floor, what have you...........

[chloepants]

These folks are the real problem

Why is it a problem? What I mean is, why is it a problem for so many other passengers? Does it make your meal taste different? Does it make the entertainment less entertaining? Are they endangering your life? I'm guessing the answer to all of these is no.

Besides lost luggage, did you ever think that maybe they can't afford to "dress to the nines"? Maybe they're doing the best they can. If they've been allowed into the dining room then it must not have been a problem with the ship's staff.

I think what applies here is, "If it doesn't concern you, don't concern yourself with it."

[TrevyMcShaw]

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I think everyone should make an effort to dress a little nicer than normal on formal night, but if they don't, it won't ruin my evening. On my last cruise, I sat with a couple that decided not to dress for formal dinner but came to the dining room anyway. They weren't turned away, but they were certainly out of place. They even admitted that they felt out of place. I imagine that will be the last time they show up in the dining room wearing ultra casual clothes on formal night. I enjoyed my meal as much as I would have if they had shown up in a ball gown and a tuxedo.

[Boytjie]

Is it OK to be self-centered enough to wear shorts, flip-flops, a tank top and baseball cap into the dining room any night? :rolleyes:

Or is there only a certain level of self-centeredness that is tolerated, and what would that threshold be?

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.

[Boytjie]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

But some do, as shown by many threads here on the topic. :)

That said, I think boorish behavious in the dining room is uncalled for and rather tacky. But to point out the dress codes here is not the same as giving dirty looks onboad.

[Copper10-8]

They better not get into my closet unless they want to find some nasty, ugly stuff in there!:eek:

[pipedreams62]

Exactly my point.

A lot of passengers take it upon themselves to play "policeman" with their fellow passengers. And then they can't understand why they get into altercations with them.


I ignore the dress code

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0009WYTZQ.01-ALVYE3T5WL0WT._SCLZZZZZZZ_V1118435599_.jpg

[geoherb]

One of the reasons we like to fly down the day before the cruise is so that any luggage mistakes will hopefully be solved before we get on the ship. We have dined with people who were not dressed appropriately on formal nights. For one couple, on their honeymoon, they just did not know better. I blame their travel agent. The husband made an effort by wearing a tie without a jacket. And I'm glad they decided to come to dinner on formal nights even without being prepared because everyone at the table would have missed them if they had not been there.

And whenever I see people not dressed appropriately on formal nights, I have to resist the urge to go up to them and say, "You must be that poor couple without luggage that I've been hearing about."

[babyher]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.


Like I mentioned in an above post, These are people who just have to mind everyone elses business be it on a cruise ship or at home, work, wherever. they don't need to know "the facts". They see, they dislike , they judge.

[lettienets]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?

[babyher]

One of the reasons we like to fly down the day before the cruise is so that any luggage mistakes will hopefully be solved before we get on the ship. We have dined with people who were not dressed appropriately on formal nights. For one couple, on their honeymoon, they just did not know better. I blame their travel agent. The husband made an effort by wearing a tie without a jacket. And I'm glad they decided to come to dinner on formal nights even without being prepared because everyone at the table would have missed them if they had not been there.

And whenever I see people not dressed appropriately on formal nights, I have to resist the urge to go up to them and say, "You must be that poor couple without luggage that I've been hearing about."


And you probably have the gall to be offended by what one of those "poor people" would say back to you

[Frick_&_Frack]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?

Unfortunately, depending on what else you may need to carry on (medical devices and so on), it can be unweildy to say the least to put extra clothes in the carry-on bag.

I'm not making a case for inappropriate dress; however, if there is an issue, the ship's personnel will know and generally assist persons to find suitable clothing or make an allowance for them to dine in comfort without missing their cruise experience due to unforeseen circumstances.

JMHO (and, yes, I've actually offered clothing to people who had lost luggage over the years - and if it fit and made them happy - great; when it didn't, them coming in with whatever they had with them, was fine by me too).

[kyriecat]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.Three cruises ago a couple of guys came in the dining room on formal night wearing jeans and t-shirts with tuxedos printed on them. Their wives/girlfriends were dressed up, not really formally but dressed Sunday-church style. I might be mistaken and maybe considered intolerant, but I think they planned those outfits just to thumb their noses at dressing up. Maybe they lost their luggage and thought the tuxedo T's were a cute idea to be formal without having to buy replacement suits. If so, then I probably owe them an apology for thinking a rude thought about them.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Three cruises ago a couple of guys came in the dining room on formal night wearing jeans and t-shirts with tuxedos printed on them. Their wives/girlfriends were dressed up, not really formally but dressed Sunday-church style. I might be mistaken and maybe considered intolerant, but I think they planned those outfits just to thumb their noses at dressing up. Maybe they lost their luggage and thought the tuxedo T's were a cute idea to be formal without having to buy replacement suits. If so, then I probably owe them an apology for thinking a rude thought about them.

So you prejudged without knowing the true facts.

I do thank you for your honesty. :)

[kyriecat]

Three cruises ago a couple of guys came in the dining room on formal night wearing jeans and t-shirts with tuxedos printed on them. Their wives/girlfriends were dressed up, not really formally but dressed Sunday-church style. I might be mistaken and maybe considered intolerant, but I think they planned those outfits just to thumb their noses at dressing up. Maybe they lost their luggage and thought the tuxedo T's were a cute idea to be formal without having to buy replacement suits. If so, then I probably owe them an apology for thinking a rude thought about them.I suppose I should clarify - it was only the guys that I thought were thumbing their noses at formal clothes. The ladies were a little under-dressed but if the guys in the t's and jeans weren't with them, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.

[twinkletoes4445]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.

Good point...you don't know. On our cruise we sat with a mother and her daughter at dinner, and they told us their luggage didn't catch up with them until our first port which was day 4 of the cruise.

[twinkletoes4445]

I want to cruise with you sometime Rita:D

I'd also love to cruise with Rita. :)

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?

How easy is that? You tell us.

That is a lot of stuff to pack in a carry on bag. The airlines are becoming a lot less friendly these days as well.

Could you please share with us your secret?

Do you always pack this way?

[fridayeyes]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?

Actually, it isn't that easy given carry on restrictions.

Example: Two of my good friends including my cruise buddy travel with a laptop and a piece of medical equipment called a CPAP. Neither item can go as checked luggage. That's two carry-ons right there and the airlines won't let them take anything else aboard the plane. Medications and documents fit into the laptop bag but not much else does. A suit or gown, dress shoes, swimwear, undies most definitely will not fit. For the woman, she is sometimes not allowed to carry her purse as it's deemed a third carryon. When this happens, she is forced to smash her purse into the laptop bag as best she can.

For me, I can only manage it if my formal wear is something like stretch velvet that can be crammed into a tiny carry-on. Add in shoes, makeup, undergarments, a curling iron, hair dryer etc. and that's all that's going to fit. If I pack an honest to goodness formal gown or even a fancy cocktail dress, there's no way I'm smashing it into the miniscule carry-ons required now.

Additionally, for medical reasons, my cruise buddy is required to wear sneakers pretty much all the time. She has black, high-top Reeboks which fly beneath the radar when she wears business attire. In a dress or skirt, she feels absolutely ridiculous about the sneakers so for formal nights she wears a pantsuit, a lace shell and a fancy wrap. It looks nice but not truly formal.

Every now and then, I've seen people give her a look. Her medical concerns aren't anyone's business but hers, and she's in no way obligated to explain herself to a fellow passenger. If HAL admits her to the dining room, then anyone's issue with her attire should be addressed to HAL.

[Robin7]

Example: Two of my good friends including my cruise buddy travel with a laptop and a piece of medical equipment called a CPAP. Neither item can go as checked luggage. That's two carry-ons right there and the airlines won't let them take anything else aboard the plane.

Your friend needs to look up Air Carrier Access Act 14 CFR Part 382.41, specifically part D which says: Carriers shall not, in implementing their carry-on baggage policies, count toward a limit on carry-on items any assistive device brought into the cabin by a qualified individual with a disability.

Sleep apnea is a disablity under the Americans with Disabilites Act. I printed the entire ACA Act 14 CFR Part 382 and keep it in my CPAP bag so if I'm questioned, I can pull it out and educate them on the FAA regulations. I've flown a lot since getting my CPAP last fall, and I haven't had a problem yet.

I take my roll aboard, my purse, AND my CPAP. I've never been questioned.

Google it. Whoever has told her her CPAP counts as one of her 1+1s for carry on is dead WRONG (as long as it's an American Carrier she's using. I had to adhere to the usual regs when flying between the US/Australia/New Zealand on Qantas).

Robin

[debshomespun]

We enjoy "dressing up" for formal night. I don't really notice what all the other passengers are wearing. Doesn't matter to me. I have been on cruises where people have had their luggage lost. Or, maybe there are other extenuating circumstances as to why someone isn't "dressed properly" for formal night.

[fridayeyes]

Your friend needs to look up Air Carrier Access Act 14 CFR Part 382.41, specifically part D which says: Carriers shall not, in implementing their carry-on baggage policies, count toward a limit on carry-on items any assistive device brought into the cabin by a qualified individual with a disability.

Robin


Oooooh! Excellent. I'll tell both of them right away! My male friend with the CPAP, an agent once tried to tell him he couldn't board with it and tried to make him check it or not fly. They had no idea what it was and didn't believe it was a medical device. (Awful funny looking for a bomb...) Things got a bit... heated.

Thanks bunches!

Friday

[Harry1954]

Like I mentioned in an above post, These are people who just have to mind everyone elses business be it on a cruise ship or at home, work, wherever. they don't need to know "the facts". They see, they dislike , they judge.
In my posting I was not suggesting we should mind others business .. I was merely pointing out that what IMHO is the reason many get bent out of shape is that they believe, rightly or wrongly, that others are 'not following the rules' .. Americans use to believe in the rule of law and justice prevailing. Unfortunately for some, this is out the window and it is every person for themselves .. it is the themselves crowd that is the problem and yes, Copper, it is a problem - not one that I intend to attempt to police - but still one anyway. For when rules are allowed to be broken anarchy reigns. Hence, the dining room manager should attempt to properly enforce the rules or else GET RID of them.

For those who are concerned about lost luggage - it happened to me on one B2B trip - gone 30 days and for the first 10 or so I had no luggage. Now I was fortunate - my wife at the last minute had packed in her suitcase a) my speedo and b) my artic gloves. We were going first to North Cape and Spitzbergen and then down to Italy ... hence the extremes. Now, I could have shown up on formal night in my speedo - but I chose to attempt to follow the rules. I begged and borrowed from fellow pax and crew and had sufficient clothes to a) have a jacket b) a tie all for formal night. I try to follow the rules .. I know, bfd ... but still .. the ones who are self-serving will not follow them period. And that is indeed the problem.

harry

[carlmm]

Just imagine, there were more than 30 people whose luggage was lost on my last cruise.
So they had to run around in shorts and t-shirt on formal night - not, of course. They were all appropriately dressed, most men just rented tuxes on board, people bought something in the shop, borrowed items from others passengers or even staff etc.
A few items did not match but they just made the effort. One man was not able not find black dress shoes in his size, another one showed up with white socks, allright, even this problem was solved after the first port stop.
It is not like there are no shop and no friendly helpful people around.

[michmike]

1979 - "teacher... teacher... johnny's chewing gum..."

2009 - "did you see those rule breakers?"

relax.. enjoy.. do what YOU know is right and don't sweat what everyone else is doing.. you're on VACATION... and in this economy too many of us lose sight of just how fortunate we are to even be able to travel

this isn't worth all the angst

[singlecruiser70]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage I carry on my best formal night outfit, (the one most expensive to replace) a bathing suit, sling backs, undies and a casual outfit. Then I am all set for any unforeseen problem.
I do it a little differently. I wear my formal outfit without a tie, (its in my pocket), during embarking. That way, I don't have to worry about it getting wrinkeled or stained with the broken wine bottle.:D

Have a nice day
Dick

[fridayeyes]

Reminds me a bit of the sock inspectors when I went to high school in Brazil. One school was Protestant and the other Catholic though both were considered 'public'. One uniform called for tan pants and navy socks while the other called for brown pants and black socks. The gate to get in was only wide enough for one person at a time and as you passed thru, you had to hitch both pantlegs so the sock inspector could root out any offenders.

If your pants were the wrong shade of tan/brown, you got sent home. If your socks were the wrong color (black instead of brown), didn't match, were entirely missing (*gasp!*) or were simply not a dark enough shade of the proper color, you got sent home. If the proper patch or a single button was missing from your regulation white shirt... you get the picture.

On the upside, all you had to do to get a skip day was make sure there was an issue with your socks. ;)

On a tangent, the school lunch was... interesting. I vividly remember being handed a bowl of thick spaghetti noodles colored a shocking yellow. Something about the texture/sheen seemed odd to me, and I inverted the bowl in the air to see what would happen. Not a single noodle moved.

[fridayeyes]

1979 - "teacher... teacher... johnny's chewing gum..."



LOL!! OMG, don't get me started. I have a kid in grade school right now.

"Teacher, teacher! He's holding a book in line." I kid you not. My child was spoken to for holding/reading a book. Can't let 'em read books in school, you know. It might lead to independent thinking and then where would we be??

[michmike]

LOL!! OMG, don't get me started. I have a kid in grade school right now.

"Teacher, teacher! He's holding a book in line." I kid you not. My child was spoken to for holding/reading a book. Can't let 'em read books in school, you know. It might lead to independent thinking and then where would we be??

laffin.. well I'm a 12 yr old trapped in a 61 yr old's body, so wasn't too impressed when I was in the library a month or so ago and this 7 yr old girl was patiently waiting as her mom looked thru the video rental ring binder and the little girl tugged on mom and exclaimed.. "Mom! That old man has 7 books!"

I sulked the rest of the day.

[lettienets]

How easy is that? You tell us.
That is a lot of stuff to pack in a carry on bag. The airlines are becoming a lot less friendly these days as well.
Could you please share with us your secret?
Do you always pack this way?
I don't think this is a lot of stuff in a carryon case that is regulation size. One evening dress/pant suit, a pair of long pants, 1 top, 2 undies and a pair of dress shoes/sling backs and bathing suit. Fits in my carryon case 9x13x20", which I would rather take than get separated by accident from all my luggage. And I can go in the pool at sailaway or hot tub and have something to wear to dinner. Do it for every cruise.

[babyher]

Reminds me a bit of the sock inspectors when I went to high school in Brazil. One school was Protestant and the other Catholic though both were considered 'public'. One uniform called for tan pants and navy socks while the other called for brown pants and black socks. The gate to get in was only wide enough for one person at a time and as you passed thru, you had to hitch both pantlegs so the sock inspector could root out any offenders.

If your pants were the wrong shade of tan/brown, you got sent home. If your socks were the wrong color (black instead of brown), didn't match, were entirely missing (*gasp!*) or were simply not a dark enough shade of the proper color, you got sent home. If the proper patch or a single button was missing from your regulation white shirt... you get the picture.

On the upside, all you had to do to get a skip day was make sure there was an issue with your socks. ;)

On a tangent, the school lunch was... interesting. I vividly remember being handed a bowl of thick spaghetti noodles colored a shocking yellow. Something about the texture/sheen seemed odd to me, and I inverted the bowl in the air to see what would happen. Not a single noodle moved.

*LOL* I am a Catholic school survivor myself. I remember them taking a ruler and measureing the length of the girls skirts.

One little 7th grade harlot had the nerve to not only have her skirt too short , but actually wore dangeling earrings AND lip gloss on the same day.

Sister Mary Mengele told her if she wanted to look like that, she should try out as a Goldigger on The Dean Martin Show. (This was in the early 70s)

[tuckmics]

First, I want to say that the reason we are sailing on HAL to Alaska is because it is highly recommended and meets our vacation needs (quiet, relaxing, possibly older clientele and less families/children, great service, etc). We had decided early on that we were not going to eat in the dining room on Formal Nights (and possibly not any other night). We don't want to carry formal attire on board. I'm sure I will be flamed for this, but will say it anyway. Comments by some seem to infer that if you don't want to "dress up" then you should sail on another cruise line. Well, sorry but we can sail on any cruise line we want. It isn't anyone's business. We certainly will have "appropriate" attire for the Smart Casual nights and will possibly eat in the dining room. However, as many have stated here, the discussion of Formal Night seems to revolve around the dining room but you see others discussing any public area of the ship. This is a vacation, not a Catholic School and the idea of these stringent dress codes are antiquated at best. No, I won't be wearing cut offs and baseball caps, but I am not going to be brow beaten into wearing tuxs or suits when I am strolling the deck or sitting in the lounge. I wouldn't dress that way at home and certainly won't be doing so on vacation. Folks need to realize that the world is more casual than it was in 1850 and we need to move along. In particular, the Pacific NW is more casual and you will rarely see people wearing tuxs and evening gowns to even the most "formal" events (and let me tell you that I have been to plenty). I realize that people, particularly from other parts of the country/world may not agree with that, but that is the way it is. For those who want to dress to the nines, please do, but do not place judgement on me.

[kryos]

We can dance around the real problem if we want, but I suggest that we should confront it - no one likes 'rule breakers' - and when someone who consciously did not pack appropriate clothes for formal night decides to go anyway, they are 'breaking the rules' - and most of us resent it. If they did not have alternative choices such as Lido or Room Service or Poolside, then it would be different. The truth is they are self-centered and not willing to follow the rules - make up their own instead. These folks are the real problem IMHO and whether we pay attention to them or not while dining is irrelevant.

harry
And in that case, Harry, I would suggest you have a quiet word with the matre 'd ... "do you really feel they are dressed for the main dining room?" Then it is up to the Matre 'd to handle it, not you. You don't know the specific circumstances and therefore have no right to meddle. Maybe that family had a piece of luggage containing all of their formal wear lost in transit. Maybe the front desk, who has been trying deligently to get it to the ship before sailing ... but failed ... has been working on the problem with them. Maybe the front desk has already spoken to the dining room manager about the "problem" and made arrangements for the family to be able to eat there sans formal wear. You don't know the specific details and by saying something to those people, all you will do is possibly embarrass or even anger them ... and that's not good, nor even fair to them.

Yes, there are other venues in which to dine ... but did you ever consider that maybe this "inappropriately" dressed family cruises specifically to enjoy elegant dinners in the formal dining room? Maybe at home, for various reasons, they just don't get a chance to dine out very often. When they are on a cruise that experience is one of the major things they look forward to.

All I am saying is that it is not other passengers' place to "correct" or "educate" their fellow passengers regarding appropriate styles of dress, or anything else concerning their cruise experience. HAL has onboard staff for that purpose. They are paid to maintain order and have the authority of the captain of the ship behind them. If something another passenger is doing (or not doing) bothers you that much, then you need to go to the appropriate HAL employee (in the case of the dining room the matre 'd or a head waiter) and get him to handle the matter. Then, of course, if he doesn't handle it to your satisfaction, you then go to the front desk later on that evening if it truly bothers you. If no one handles it, then you are certainly free in the future to find another cruise line which would more appropriately meet your comfort level ... may I suggest Cunard?

But neither I nor you are in a position to play "cop" with our fellow passengers, and frankly, I would be more offended by the behavior of a fellow passenger who did that than I would be by the person who didn't dress appropriately for dinner.

Just my opinion.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

And remember Rita, these self appointed police officers don't just limit themselves to cruiseships. they are usually the "Mrs Kravitz' of the neighborhood, the supplyroom police at work etc etc etc. :(
Supply room police ... yes ... how well I know.

That's the nice thing about working the overnight shift. I just "midnight requisition" anything I need. Just like one of the security officers told me ... as long as that item never goes out the front door, it's not stealing ... rather it's simply a "reallocation of company resources" ... nothing wrong with it at all. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

It almost used to be that way! In the early years of flight, folks dressed to the nines to travel!I have a co-worker whose brother works for one of the major airlines. He told me ... if you ever want to maximize your chances of getting a free upgrade to first class, dress up for the flight. When there are a couple of extra seats in first class that need to be filled, the gate agent will always choose the better dressed people to upgrade ... not the ones wearing tee-shirts and flipflops. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Is it OK to be self-centered enough to wear shorts, flip-flops, a tank top and baseball cap into the dining room any night? :rolleyes:

Or is there only a certain level of self-centeredness that is tolerated, and what would that threshold be?No, it most certainly isn't ... and even I ... a formal night "renegade" ... would not try that ... on either a formal OR a casual night. Simply put, it's over the top. But then, I would like to assume, the person walking into the dining room so dressed wouldn't make it past the matre 'd podium. It's his job to tell them they are not appropriately dressed, and I would imagine in a case such as this, he would.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[babyher]

And in that case, Harry, I would suggest you have a quiet word with the matre 'd ... "do you really feel they are dressed for the main dining room?" Then it is up to the Matre 'd to handle it, not you. You don't know the specific circumstances and therefore have no right to meddle. Maybe that family had a piece of luggage containing all of their formal wear lost in transit. Maybe the front desk, who has been trying deligently to get it to the ship before sailing ... but failed ... has been working on the problem with them. Maybe the front desk has already spoken to the dining room manager about the "problem" and made arrangements for the family to be able to eat there sans formal wear. You don't know the specific details and by saying something to those people, all you will do is possibly embarrass or even anger them ... and that's not good, nor even fair to them.

Yes, there are other venues in which to dine ... but did you ever consider that maybe this "inappropriately" dressed family cruises specifically to enjoy elegant dinners in the formal dining room? Maybe at home, for various reasons, they just don't get a chance to dine out very often. When they are on a cruise that experience is one of the major things they look forward to.

All I am saying is that it is not other passengers' place to "correct" or "educate" their fellow passengers regarding appropriate styles of dress, or anything else concerning their cruise experience. HAL has onboard staff for that purpose. They are paid to maintain order and have the authority of the captain of the ship behind them. If something another passenger is doing (or not doing) bothers you that much, then you need to go to the appropriate HAL employee (in the case of the dining room the matre 'd or a head waiter) and get him to handle the matter. Then, of course, if he doesn't handle it to your satisfaction, you then go to the front desk later on that evening if it truly bothers you. If no one handles it, then you are certainly free in the future to find another cruise line which would more appropriately meet your comfort level ... may I suggest Cunard?

But neither I nor you are in a position to play "cop" with our fellow passengers, and frankly, I would be more offended by the behavior of a fellow passenger who did that than I would be by the person who didn't dress appropriately for dinner.

Just my opinion.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Once again I agree with you Rita.

I am trying to put myself in the maitre D's place.

Someone comes up to me and tells me some fellow pax are upsetting their meal. They point them out and there is a nice family, sitting at a table, quietly enjoying their meal, having polite conversation, enjoying themselves and not hurting a soul.

I am going to hurt and embaress them at their table by walking up to them and adviseing them they have to leave because someone is bothered by their dockers and polo shirt??????

[babyher]

Supply room police ... yes ... how well I know.

That's the nice thing about working the overnight shift. I just "midnight requisition" anything I need. Just like one of the security officers told me ... as long as that item never goes out the front door, it's not stealing ... rather it's simply a "reallocation of company resources" ... nothing wrong with it at all. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

Oh yea same here , no one is bringing anything home, we just need it while we are at work.

[kryos]

One of the reasons we like to fly down the day before the cruise is so that any luggage mistakes will hopefully be solved before we get on the ship. We have dined with people who were not dressed appropriately on formal nights. For one couple, on their honeymoon, they just did not know better. I blame their travel agent. The husband made an effort by wearing a tie without a jacket. And I'm glad they decided to come to dinner on formal nights even without being prepared because everyone at the table would have missed them if they had not been there.

I thank God I had a decent travel agent on my first cruise who took out a half hour of his time on the telephone to "educate" me about the customs of cruising. To be honest, I wouldn't have even known to pack formal wear if I wanted to dine in the main dining room. He told me what the guidelines were, but was very quick to reassure me when I expressed discomfort, that I was certainly free to eat in the Lido on those nights (I think there were only three of them) or to enjoy room service in my cabin.

As for heading to the pier a day ahead of time, no question ... this is a great idea. Sadly, however, some of us are simply unable to do this for various reasons ... job schedules, availability of vacation time, etc. ... and therefore, we must take our chances and just hope for the best.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[HALFans]

...Yes, there are other venues in which to dine ... but did you ever consider that maybe this "inappropriately" dressed family cruises specifically to enjoy elegant dinners in the formal dining room? Maybe at home, for various reasons, they just don't get a chance to dine out very often. When they are on a cruise that experience is one of the major things they look forward to.

Rita,

You said it yourself, they're there to "enjoy elegant dinners in the FORMAL dining room".

On formal nights let them dress for the experience, or eat elsewhere in the venue provided for appropriately (un)dressed people... the Lido - Informal dining room.

The Formal experience is one of the things I look forward to.

[kryos]

Once again I agree with you Rita.

I am trying to put myself in the maitre D's place.

Someone comes up to me and tells me some fellow pax are upsetting their meal. They point them out and there is a nice family, sitting at a table, quietly enjoying their meal, having polite conversation, enjoying themselves and not hurting a soul.

I am going to hurt and embaress them at their table by walking up to them and adviseing them they have to leave because someone is bothered by their dockers and polo shirt??????
I had a couple of very extensive talks with the matre 'd on my last cruise ... actually they call them dining room managers today. I was writing a lot of artcles, and one of them was about dining room service so we had a lot of opportunity to chat.

He told me quite candidly ... and I certainly am paraphrasing here ... because he didn't put it in quite these words ... that the dress code rules were a pain in his a** ... he said that he's "dammed" if he does, and "dammed" if he doesn't enforce them. He told me it wasn't such a big problem on our cruise, a 35-day one, because most of the passengers dressed more than appropriately in the main dining room, but on the shorter cruises (like the Alaska season they just finished before our cruise) he really has his hands full because a lot of the people who take them are more informal to begin with. They won't think anything about coming to the dining room on a formal night with a simple pair of slacks and a button down, open at the collar shirt. Technically, that's against the dress code, and he shouldn't allow them in. But often he said he will have to gauge the overall level of dress in the dining room that night, and make his enforcement decisions based on that. In other words, if there are a goodly number of people not dressed formally, he will let it go. If there are only one or two, then he will probably request that they head back to their stateroom and get a jacket.

But he said ... regardless of how he handles it, he gets some gruff from someone, and it's always a losing battle for him since someone will always complain no matter how he chooses to handle it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Comments by some seem to infer that if you don't want to "dress up" then you should sail on another cruise line. Well, sorry but we can sail on any cruise line we want. It isn't anyone's business. We certainly will have "appropriate" attire for the Smart Casual nights and will possibly eat in the dining room. However, as many have stated here, the discussion of Formal Night seems to revolve around the dining room but you see others discussing any public area of the ship. This is a vacation, not a Catholic School and the idea of these stringent dress codes are antiquated at best. No, I won't be wearing cut offs and baseball caps, but I am not going to be brow beaten into wearing tuxs or suits when I am strolling the deck or sitting in the lounge. I wouldn't dress that way at home and certainly won't be doing so on vacation.
I think you are fine ... in any venue on the ship ... in casual clothing in the evenings. Yes, it used to be that HAL requested you stay off the public decks on formal nights if you did not choose to dress formally, but today that no longer applies. As long as you are wearing a nice casual outfit ... no shorts, flipflops, etc. ... you can sit in any lounge you choose and enjoy a drink. You can also go to the show, play in the casino, browse the shops ... and do just about anything else you'd like to do. In fact, on some cruises, you can even dine in the main dining room in a nice "resort casual" outfit on formal night and no one on the staff will bat an eyelash, because there will be lots of other people dressed the same way. What's HAL gonna do? Start sending everyone back to their cabins for a jacket? The Lido manager would kill the dining room manager if all of a sudden he had this huge influx of passengers showing up to eat ... people he is not staffed to handle ... all because the dining room manager sent them all packing. So, even as to the main dining room ... it's gonna depend on the cruise and how the majority of your fellow passengers decide to come dressed that evening.

Let's put this whole thing into perspective ... and it also explains why you could even choose to eat in the main dining room on a formal night dressed in what would basically be resort casual wear ... HAL, just like all cruise lines, is squeezed financially today. They want happy passengers onboard who will freely spend money. If you are sitting in your cabin having dinner from room service, and then watching a movie on a DVD you brought along with you, you are not spending money. If you drink from that bottle of wine sitting in your cabin, rather than sit in a lounge, enjoying the music and sipping a cocktail you bought there, HAL makes nothing.

So, rest assured, HAL has no problem with people in casual wear enjoying the ship in the evening, even if it is a formal night ... because when you are out and about, it's cha ching! And that makes HAL happy.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[skayebs]

My husband and I just returned from the Panama Canal on the Zuiderdam. We did not take any formal clothing with us, although we did have smart casual clothing. We only used it when we ate at the Pinacle on smart casual nights of course. The rest of the time we ate in the Lido. That was fine, we didn't want to dress up so the Lido was for us.

I did mind the expectation that we were to hide out in our rooms and not be seen in the public areas of the ship in less than proper dress. We did go to the casino where we found other casual diners. We didn't go to any of the shows or lounges as we didn't want to be "breaking the rules". It did make me decide that I would never cruise on HAL again.

We live in Houston, which is an area that is very casual. I know of only one restaurant that requires a jacket. Only private functions require a tux. It is the way people live here and we like having a casual life style.

Why go on vacation and have to dress formally for dinner? No reason to do so unless you want to.

[RuthC]

Yes, it used to be that HAL requested you stay off the public decks on formal nights if you did not choose to dress formally, but today that no longer applies.
HAL still makes that request. It's compliance and enforcement that is lacking.

[tuckmics]

Rita,
I absolutely agree. I don’t want to seem like some bohemian…I would never wear shorts and flip flops anywhere, including the Lido (or for that matter, most places I go at home). And not withstanding HALs (or any cruise line’s) need to bring in the $$$, I really believe that the dress code needs to reflect the cruise. Alaska (and the NW in general) is a more casual place. While I agree that on formal nights , folks should wear appropriate clothes TO THE DINING ROOM; since we will forgo that experience, I don’t think we should be relegated to our cabin. Having said that, if we were sailing the Med, then yes, I would comply with the much more formal expectations. And make no mistake, if we were planning on eating in the dining room, we would certainly dress the part. But we are taking this cruise for relaxation and to decompress…my mother passed away last month…so we don’t want to be bothered with dressing up, dealing with party people, kids, noise, etc. HAL seemed like the best option. We will certainly refrain from embarrassing ourselves and fellow passengers.:)

[kryos]

HAL still makes that request. It's compliance and enforcement that is lacking.
LOL ... remember ... cha ching!

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Why go on vacation and have to dress formally for dinner? No reason to do so unless you want to.
Let me tell you, I discovered the absolute joys of the Lido on my last cruise. The dining room was way too slow for me ... and while I realize that some people enjoy lingering over a meal, I just am not one of them. To me, an hour is more than enough time for dinner, dessert, coffee, etc. I have other things I want to do in the evenings. Not sit in a dining room. The Lido served my needs absolutely perfectly, and I thoroughly enjoyed eating there ... and probably ate there about 75 to 80% of my dinners, with the other 20% being divided between the dining room (casual nights) and the Pinnacle Grill.

On this cruise coming up, and the one next year, I plan to bring just about NOTHING that's formal, other than perhaps my famous "reinstone-studded" tee-shirt and a pair of velvet pants. Other than that, it's all nice casual wear for me, and Lido dining at its finest!

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Copper10-8]

I...................Americans use to believe in the rule of law and justice prevailing. Unfortunately for some, this is out the window and it is every person for themselves .. it is the themselves crowd that is the problem and yes, Copper, it is a problem - not one that I intend to attempt to police - but still one anyway. For when rules are allowed to be broken anarchy reigns. Hence, the dining room manager should attempt to properly enforce the rules or else GET RID of them.

.........................harry

I hear ya, Harry! Lookie here, people wil be people, very hard to change that! Some will dress to the max, some will compensate, some don't like dressing but still book HAL. To each his/her own, what's mamma gonna do?:eek: The problem with it (those who don't abide - for whatever reason - by the suggested dress code) being a problem for 'some' others that do is that HAL is not consistent with enforcing that same dress code they put out. The examples given here, observed by many in person, are that, on formal nights, they (the DR managers/asst drm/area sups) either will send fine folks back to their respective room(s) to retrieve a jacket and/or tie and then come on back and try it again, prety please, OR they will allow fine folks wearing jeans/t-shirts/wife beaters, you name it, in that mother of all dining rooms dressed as such to partake in a five course dinner. Problemas? Si Senor!

'Cause.............doing that, being inconsistent, creates confusion, gives fine folks the impression that "no one told me anything so I'm good to go wearing whatever and I'll just do that again next time, thank you very much, can I have another". Until HAL decides to enforce their "code", we all here, can talk about it until all the cows come home, ain't gonna change a thing. When this thread closes, we'll just wait for the next one!

Now, why doesn't HAL enforce 'da code' and/or provide consistent back-up for their managers/sups who do do? Because HAL, like any other cruise line, doesn't want/like/prefer confrontations with pax that will, no doubt, follow when some fine folk are told "plesae go back to where you came from, and try again, Charlie". Confrontations lead to bad feelings/shouting matches at the front office/'wait 'till I get home'/who do you think you are? I paid for this trip, you know", etc. and bad feelings lead to "I'm going to Crystal next time"

So, that puts us back at square one! Next! :)

[notree]

Copper... I am 10-7, 10-42. Retired Highway Patrol

Texas DPS

[Copper10-8]

Texas DPS

Them guys with those funny hats and those red shoulder muh patches that talk about stuff like "I'm fixing to write you a ticket for runnin' that dire stop sign yonder by the Diree Queen, y'ear?;)

[pipedreams62]

Until HAL decides to enforce their "code", we all here, can talk about it until all the cows come home, ain't gonna change a thing. When this thread closes, we'll just wait for the next one!




Let's invent a "Countdown Clock" till the next dress code thread.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Them guys with those funny hats and those red shoulder muh patches that talk about stuff like "I'm fixing to write you a ticket for runnin' that dire stop sign yonder by the Diree Queen, y'ear?;)


LOL...I can hear that like it was yesterday. Oh my, it WAS yesterday. :D

Diane (lives in Texas)

[Down-Unders]

If your luggage is missing hire a suit, stay in your cabin or use the lido.



:):):):):)

[coffeeclutch1]

The cruiseline misplaced my husband's luggage, and RCC gave him a complimentary tux. They also gave free laundry vouchers but he decided he didn't want to streak around the ship till clothes were returned. Finally found his bag in crew's luggage.:)

[lettienets]

But he said ... regardless of how he handles it, he gets some gruff from someone, and it's always a losing battle for him since someone will always complain no matter how he chooses to handle it.
Blue skies ...
--rita
Whether he gets gruff or not from somebody is not the issue, he has a job to do and gets paid for it , so he should just do his job.

[velotaco]

We have also had late luggage and have learned a few tricks to packing. My wife is four foot nine and less then a hundred pounds, so if she loses her luggage, there is no way she is going to find something that fits her on board. Well, mabe a kids T-shirt:)

We now pack a basic array of clothes in our carry-on to include something that would not get too frowned upon in the MDR.

We split all are clothes amongst all suit cases so that if any one goes missing, we still both have something to wear.

Always arrive a day or so before the cruise. We do this more to explore the city we will be leaving from, but it also gives a little leeway in case your luggage is late, or you need to buy a few things.

Travel wearing what we would wear on the ship.

[cruisinjudy]

LOL!! OMG, don't get me started. I have a kid in grade school right now.

"Teacher, teacher! He's holding a book in line." I kid you not. My child was spoken to for holding/reading a book. Can't let 'em read books in school, you know. It might lead to independent thinking and then where would we be??

As a past teacher, I can see where this could be a rule. When we left the library with library books the rule was to hold your books a certain way. This was to avoid such things as first graders walking along "reading " their book and running into a pole. Yes it has happened. Also it was to teach the proper way to carry a book while walking. Young children tend to think of many things as play things. They would use the book to hit the child ahead of them , try to hold the book by a few pages, anything they could think of, Instead of going through all the things they shouldn't do with the book while walking it is easier for them to understand a simple way to hold the book. When we got back to the classroom it was time to read the book. So please consider what the circumstances were before you question your child being asked to not read in line.

[fridayeyes]

As a past teacher, I can see where this could be a rule. When we left the library with library books the rule was to hold your books a certain way. This was to avoid such things as first graders walking along "reading " their book and running into a pole. Yes it has happened. Also it was to teach the proper way to carry a book while walking. Young children tend to think of many things as play things. They would use the book to hit the child ahead of them , try to hold the book by a few pages, anything they could think of, Instead of going through all the things they shouldn't do with the book while walking it is easier for them to understand a simple way to hold the book. When we got back to the classroom it was time to read the book. So please consider what the circumstances were before you question your child being asked to not read in line.

It's off topic to go into it further, really, but I'm a once and future teacher myself. As much as I like to support my colleagues, and as valid as your point is, there are indeed times when a particular child and a particular teacher just don't mesh well. This was one of those cases, and when my son was moved to a different room the problems disappeared.

Re: walking into a pole - I've done something very similar myself, and as an adult. ;)

[Nancyquilts]

laffin.. well I'm a 12 yr old trapped in a 61 yr old's body, so wasn't too impressed when I was in the library a month or so ago and this 7 yr old girl was patiently waiting as her mom looked thru the video rental ring binder and the little girl tugged on mom and exclaimed.. "Mom! That old man has 7 books!"

I sulked the rest of the day.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but it gets worse.:D Eventually you'll be much older and trapped in a 61 yr old's body. But it beats the alternative.

[Nancyquilts]

Confrontations lead to bad feelings/shouting matches at the front office/'wait 'till I get home'/who do you think you are? I paid for this trip, you know", etc. and bad feelings lead to "I'm going to Crystal next time"

:)
I like that, John. I don't know if there's a Lido there open at night, so Crystal would probably refuse to let them eat anywhere except their cabin.:D

[cruisinjudy]

As much as I like to support my colleagues, and as valid as your point is, there are indeed times when a particular child and a particular teacher just don't mesh well. This was one of those cases, and when my son was moved to a different room the problems disappeared.

Re: walking into a pole - I've done something very similar myself, and as an adult. ;)


Yes okay gotcha.
And I too have walked into a pole!

[WhansaMi]

First, I want to say that the reason we are sailing on HAL to Alaska is because it is highly recommended and meets our vacation needs (quiet, relaxing, possibly older clientele and less families/children, great service, etc). We had decided early on that we were not going to eat in the dining room on Formal Nights (and possibly not any other night). We don't want to carry formal attire on board. I'm sure I will be flamed for this, but will say it anyway. Comments by some seem to infer that if you don't want to "dress up" then you should sail on another cruise line. Well, sorry but we can sail on any cruise line we want. It isn't anyone's business. We certainly will have "appropriate" attire for the Smart Casual nights and will possibly eat in the dining room. However, as many have stated here, the discussion of Formal Night seems to revolve around the dining room but you see others discussing any public area of the ship. This is a vacation, not a Catholic School and the idea of these stringent dress codes are antiquated at best. No, I won't be wearing cut offs and baseball caps, but I am not going to be brow beaten into wearing tuxs or suits when I am strolling the deck or sitting in the lounge. I wouldn't dress that way at home and certainly won't be doing so on vacation. Folks need to realize that the world is more casual than it was in 1850 and we need to move along. In particular, the Pacific NW is more casual and you will rarely see people wearing tuxs and evening gowns to even the most "formal" events (and let me tell you that I have been to plenty). I realize that people, particularly from other parts of the country/world may not agree with that, but that is the way it is. For those who want to dress to the nines, please do, but do not place judgement on me.

Hear, hear!

You can cruise with me anytime... I'll even save you a seat at my, yes, dining room table on formal night!

[Boytjie]

No, it most certainly isn't ... and even I ... a formal night "renegade" ... would not try that ... on either a formal OR a casual night. Simply put, it's over the top. But then, I would like to assume, the person walking into the dining room so dressed wouldn't make it past the matre 'd podium. It's his job to tell them they are not appropriately dressed, and I would imagine in a case such as this, he would.

Blue skies ...

--rita

See, by going over the top what I was trying to point out is that everyone draws a line... the question is just where it is drawn. Those that draw the line at the actual dress code of the ship are quickly shot down here. Funny, isn't that? :confused:

[Boytjie]

Yes, it used to be that HAL requested you stay off the public decks on formal nights if you did not choose to dress formally, but today that no longer applies.

Currently on HAL's website:
In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.



The Lido manager would kill the dining room manager if all of a sudden he had this huge influx of passengers showing up to eat ... people he is not staffed to handle ... all because the dining room manager sent them all packing. So, even as to the main dining room ... it's gonna depend on the cruise and how the majority of your fellow passengers decide to come dressed that evening.

They monitor the various dining rooms and adjust servers if needed. On the first night of our cruise on the Eurodam I noticed waiters from Canaletto working in the dining room. When I later asked the Executive Culinary Officer about it he said they would redeploy waiters from one area to another as needed.

[WhansaMi]

If your luggage is missing hire a suit, stay in your cabin or use the lido.



:):):):):)

Stay in your cabin? Are you suggesting that the damage done to you by having to <gasp> SEE someone in a less than perfectly coiffed and attired state is more important than another passengers enjoyment of a dinner, or even a trip around the ship?

Wow.

I cruised on HAL last year. Longish European cruise. There were lots of things l loved about it and lots of things I would change. Primarily among the things I would change was the snobbishness I encountered on this board, and from a rare few on the ship.


My age was probably 20 years or so younger that the average, so maybe they were kinder to me because if that. I was also with a group that had chartered the boat, so that might also have contributed to it.


I work nice clothes for formal night, but wasn't dressed to the nines. A couple of the other nights, I didn't even change before dinner--- we hadnt been doing anything strenuous, so why not?

No one seemed to came.

And, those that need something to grouse about, well, I provided them with joy.


I did remember one old stalwart here before I left for the cruise, grousing and grumping about people who wear their robes to and from the spa. It came to mind because, one morning, as I went to get into our shower, I realized I had no water. An hour to our tour, and no way of showering.

So, I call to the purser's desk, where they suggest I go to the gym/spa. So, carrying all my toiletries, I do. Forgot my key, however. :-O After I was done, I had to walk in only my robe, hair up in towel, to the purser's desk to get a new key.

I hoped, THE WHOLE WAY DOWN and THE WHOLE WAY BACK that I'd run into that "nice" CruiseCritics guy. I figured this would have given him something to complain about for DAYS.

[Boytjie]

Why go on vacation and have to dress formally for dinner? No reason to do so unless you want to.

Why then choose a cruise line that does not hide the fact that it has formal nights, rather that go with a causal cruise line that fits your vacation style? Do you go to that local restaurant with a dress code or do you go elsewhere?

[AZjohn]

Why then choose a cruise line that does not hide the fact that it has formal nights, rather that go with a causal cruise line that fits your vacation style?

HAL does offer casual dinning options every night now. There is no reason to tell someone to go to another cruise line:(
John

[WhansaMi]

Why then choose a cruise line that does not hide the fact that it has formal nights, rather that go with a causal cruise line that fits your vacation style? Do you go to that local restaurant with a dress code or do you go elsewhere?

There are lots of reasons to chose a particular ship at a particular time:
itinerary
ease of travel, or access to method of travel, to the ship
size of ship
enjoyment of special programs on the ship

I could go on and on. For some, the dress code is a salient feature. For others, it not.

[Boytjie]

HAL does offer casual dinning options every night now. There is no reason to tell someone to go to another cruise line:(
John

The poster was not complaining about formal dress code in the dining room (they ate in the Lido) but was unhappy with the more formal atmosphere on the ship. The poster also mentioned a desire for a more casual vacation. Why can I not inquire as to why they chose HAL rather than a more casual cruise line that would match their vacation style?

And I did not tell them to go to another cruise line, I asked why they chose one when it doesn't match their style.

[Boytjie]

There are lots of reasons to chose a particular ship at a particular time:
itinerary
ease of travel, or access to method of travel, to the ship
size of ship
enjoyment of special programs on the ship

I could go on and on. For some, the dress code is a salient feature. For others, it not.

Agreed. But isn't there a bit of give-and-take involved? I want to really go on this cruise line even though its style doesn't match mine, but I will make a little effort to go along with their style.

[tuckmics]

WhansaMi,

We are on the 8 Aug Alaska cruise, sailing on the Zueiderdam. Would love to cruise with you.

I am going to be very clear on this...Don't judge us...the fact is that we are on VACATION!!! We are going to do what we want and on a HAL vessel because it fits our needs. NO, we are not going to wear shorts and tank tops (I've never worn a tank top in my life). We are going to wear comfortable clothing and steer clear of the dining room.

Hope you all can deal...looking forward to the trip!!:):)

[AZjohn]

Why can I not inquire as to why they chose HAL rather than a more casual cruise line that would match their vacation style?l

Peter, you just go ahead and inquire all you want:rolleyes:. Have a feeling your not asking why and making an effort to understand or empathize, just making a statement that they (or I) are not the same as you and should go sail somewhere else:(
But as I said, you just continue to "inquire"
John

[RevNeal]

http://www.revneal.org/Resources/yawn.jpg

Sometimes the Dress Code Thread fails to entice. :D ;)

[Copper10-8]

http://www.revneal.org/Resources/yawn.jpg

Sometimes the Dress Code Thread fails to entice. :D ;)

Sometimes?;)

[pipedreams62]

http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunstuff/yawnthumb1.jpg

[kryos]

Whether he gets gruff or not from somebody is not the issue, he has a job to do and gets paid for it , so he should just do his job.
Yeah, I agree ... but he does have to walk a fine line ... send one person packing, and he'd better send anyone not dressed properly packing. Send too many people packing, and he's gonna catch h*ll from somebody ... the front desk people who have to listen to all the complaints ... the Lido manager who gets clobbered with all these extra people, etc.

So, I would imagine he's in a tough spot. Are a lot of people technically against "code?" If so, I'd better be real careful in determining just how far out of code people have to be before I send them up to the Lido. Nice shirt and tie or open collar shirt and a jacket ... I'll let it slide. Shorts and a tee-shirt, maybe a baseball cap? Lido.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Cruiz'nBaers]

We play by the rules the best we can but past experience has taught me my DH is uncomfortably hot in a suit on a crowded ship. He doesn't mind dressing for dinner (I know he just does it for me) but he will change clothes immediately after. I don't change so I'm sure we're a odd sight to some. We''re not there to please anyone but us so we just don't care what they think. Of course, if someone stares, I look them straight in the eye and tap my nose with my finger a couple times indicating they have something on their nose. They immediately start brushing at their nose and look at me questioningly for any indication that whatever was there is gone. I always get a giggle doing that.

I figure the men that stare and have attitudes are jelous that their significant other made them dress up and you didn't have to. The women that stare are just snobs. Obviously, they all need to brush up on their manner - were they not ever told staring is rude. I wonder if a woman would want to dress formal if she had to wear a hot suit and a choking tie. For formal night maybe it should be manatory for women to wear panty hose. Oh yeah, that would go over well......not.

Noticed that you are sailing off in a day and a few hours. We just got off the Eurodam April 2 and I'm missing it already. Happy cruising, wish I were coming along.

Linda

[Boytjie]

Peter, you just go ahead and inquire all you want:rolleyes:. Have a feeling your not asking why and making an effort to understand or empathize, just making a statement that they (or I) are not the same as you and should go sail somewhere else:(
But as I said, you just continue to "inquire"
John

You are assuming that I think I am better than you or other cruisers. You couldn't be further from the truth.

[AZjohn]

You are assuming that I think I am better than you or other cruisers. You couldn't be further from the truth.

OK, my fault and don't assume that any more. In fact, by your aviator photo and other details from your posting we have a lot of things in common.
I appoligize and guess I was in a pissy mood last night. I need to leave these kinds of threads alone.
John

[RevNeal]

Sometimes?;)


Precisely ... sometimes. :)
Every once and a while someone will say something which will catch my interest or pique my ire beyond the barest minimum with regard to those who either wear less than the barest minimum or those who supposedly stare down their noses at those who are wearing less than the barest minimum, in which case I'll stick my own toe in to the barest minimum for a minimally entertaining few posts. :D

Thus far, this thread has been minimally constituted of the barest minimum of controversy ... not enough to entice me to do more than be silly on the thread. Besides ... it's Holy Week.

[lettienets]

Precisely ... sometimes. :)
..........
Hi Rev, to go along with your yawn, I captured one of your cartoons from way back when

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/lettienets/th_beatdeadhorse.gif

[tokyo]

formal nights and can't see why the dress code on formal nights should not be observed. After saying that, I would not complain about anyone not in a tux, but would think to myself that they are letting the side down.

My cruise in August will be my first time with HAL, all my other cruises have been with PandO and Cunard. During last years cruise on the Artimis very few people failed to observe the dress code on formal nights. I was sitting in a bar in shorts and tee shirt and was invited to leave the bar as it had gone 6pm and it was a formal night :eek:

Each to his own, but as I said, I love formal nights.

[singlecruiser70]

After reading this whole thread, I think I won't know how to dress or act while onboard ship. Maybe I should just stay home dressed in my Levis, tee shirt and ball cap, and eat potato chips and mow the grass and drink beer.:(

Have a nice day
Dick

[srlafleur]

First, let me preface my response by saying that we do dress for dinner. Not a tux, but a black suit, white shirt, tie, appropriate shoes for Hubby, cocktail dress or gown for me.
I appreciate the requirement to "dress for dinner", no tank tops, shorts, jeans, ball caps, etc. and to be honest, except for a few, I've never really noticed that many people, particularly on formal night, dressed like that on any of my cruises. Then again, I'm not there to see what everyone is wearing, but to enjoy my own dinner.
My question is, how many sequins = formal? Why is a pantsuit on a woman (with a lace tank and nice wrap as a previous poster mentioned) not formal enough? A suit's good enough for a man! If we really want to go there - why is a very skimpy formal dress OK, but fancy shorts, or even capris a no-no? What if the shorts were "formal" rhinestone-incrusted or velvet? I'm just sayin'...
I brought my 80 yo mother on a cruise and we did not go out and buy her a "formal" dress. She just packed the nicest skirt outfit she already had to wear for formal night in the MDR. Should she have missed the experience of formal dining on this, her very first and, who knows, possibly last cruise, just because it's very hard for her to find appropriate, inexpensive formal wear that fits and which she would never wear anywhere again?

[ViolaSwamp]

My personal opinion on women's pantsuits are that they belong in the board room and should not count as acceptable formal night wear. In my (not so) humble opinion, men should wear suits or tuxedos, and women should wear dresses on formal nights. Period. Honestly, I think women's pantsuits are nowhere near "formal" in the least. I cannot understand why others feel that they are formal wear. I don't find ANY women's pantsuits to be anywhere NEAR fancy or formal. But whatever, that's just me... :p

[Petronillus]

Rev. Neal indicated that these formal-dress threads are wearisome. But then he chalked it up to the stress of his job: Besides ... it's Holy Week.Let me join in wishing all a happy and blessed Easter. And for those who celebrate liberation from bondage at Passover: Maazel tov! Next year in Jerusalem!

Now to get back on topic: I'm still pretty new to CC and this board, and so haven't yet been exposed to this area of recurring controversy. Consequently, I would benefit from some enlightenment. Is it expected on formal evenings that we wear our tuxes (or gowns, as the case may be) not only for the evening meal but also for the other on-board activities (shows, dancing, socializing outside one's own cabin)? If so, I find myself once again indebted to this board: I would have been caught unawares. Nothing against non-conformity. But, as Rev. Neal would point out from the Good Book: As for me and my house, we will get with the program!

[srlafleur]

women should wear dresses on formal nights. Period. :p

There are women I know who don't own, never wear, have never worn dresses (maybe when they were 3 or 4). They wore beautiful white suits to their wedding.

[michmike]

but DW has a 35 yr long nasty habit of thinkin' she WEARS the pants in our house.....

[Copper10-8]

Precisely ... sometimes. :)
Every once and a while someone will say something which will catch my interest or pique my ire beyond the barest minimum with regard to those who either wear less than the barest minimum or those who supposedly stare down their noses at those who are wearing less than the barest minimum, in which case I'll stick my own toe in to the barest minimum for a minimally entertaining few posts. :D

Thus far, this thread has been minimally constituted of the barest minimum of controversy ... not enough to entice me to do more than be silly on the thread. Besides ... it's Holy Week.

Happy Easter! What I was trying to say in not enough words: All dress code threads eventually come down to the same arguments for and against, the arrival on scene shortly after, of the usual suspects (some new ones, not yet identified) to present their case and/or offer their suggestions, the same battle lines are drawn, and eventually, the same end result appears; no changes of opinion. The thread slowly fades away in the sunset, the poor pony is finally assisted out its misery and then we all wait for the next one to appear over the horizon so everything can start over again. But wait.................I'm preaching to the choir, I mean, the reverend;)

[RuthC]

Now to get back on topic: I'm still pretty new to CC and this board, and so haven't yet been exposed to this area of recurring controversy. Consequently, I would benefit from some enlightenment. Is it expected on formal evenings that we wear our tuxes (or gowns, as the case may be) not only for the evening meal but also for the other on-board activities (shows, dancing, socializing outside one's own cabin)? If so, I find myself once again indebted to this board: I would have been caught unawares. Nothing against non-conformity. But, as Rev. Neal would point out from the Good Book: As for me and my house, we will get with the program!
Yes, Petronillus, that's exactly what the expectation is.

People who do not wish to dress for the evening, or to change after dinner, are welcome on outside decks, and the Lido Deck.
But the show lounge, other lounges, casino, are all areas where the dress code continues until it's time to retire for the night.

[pipedreams62]

We've mentioned pantsuits,sequins,

Oh Yeah

We haven't mentioned turtleneck and sportcoat guy,

Unfortunately.... If your name isn't "Bullitt" it won't fly.


http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/features/2006/greatest-movie-car-chases/03-large/chase-mcqueen-driving.jpg

[fridayeyes]

After turtleneck guy, we need to hit tab collar dude and "Why is my Mexican wedding shirt not formal on the ship when it's formal in Mexico?"

I think after that, we're allowed to discuss the wearing of cowboy boots and/or hats with a suit/tux, then women who wear so little that two sequins and a cork pass for formal wear.

We have a schedule to keep folks. *taps clipboard*

*tongue firmly in cheek*

[pipedreams62]

After reading this whole thread, I think I won't know how to dress or act while onboard ship. Maybe I should just stay home dressed in my Levis, tee shirt and ball cap, and eat potato chips and mow the grass and drink beer.:(

Have a nice day
Dick



http://www.frontrowking.com/Concert_Tickets/Pics/jeff-foxworthy.jpg

[Copper10-8]

Reuters; Rotterdam, April 1, 2009: HAL president and CEO Stein Kruse announced today the creation of a new position aboard all of Holland Amerika Lijn's thirty four vessels. The position, formally unveiled today in Rotterdam as the 'tuxedo police', will fall under the Environmental Friendly Department and its personnel will, as such, report directly to the onboard Environmental Officer. Kruse explained that it will be the Tuxedo police's primary responsibility to enforce the dress code onboard ships. He continued by stating that members of the tuxedo police will position themselves at the entrances to the ship's restaurants at all dinner seatings on formal nights where they will cast a critical eye at the compliance, or lack thereof, of the line's dress codes.

"Enough is enough" said Kruse, "We will no longer allow our guests to get away with murder when it comes to properly dressing for dinner on formal night". "Leisure suits, obscenely mismatched color and style combinations, torn blue jeans and/or those recently utlized to change the engine oil in one's automobile, crocodile and/or other amphibian/reptile-based shoes, top garments informally referred to as 'wifebeaters", excessive tatoos, body piercings, male and female pit hair and, above anything else, the public display of male boobs, will be dealt with by the tuxedo police forthwith and with iron fist". "Passengers discovered to be in violation of the "code" will first be asked to return to their respective staterooms to remove said violating garment(s), hair, boobs, tattoo(s) and/or piercing(s)". "If there is no compliance after the first official warning from the tuxedo police, those guests will be given a choice to: a) be quarantined in their stateroom for the remainder of the cruise or: b) be separated from the vessel and their respective cruise without compensation, and deposited at the first sight of land in close proximity, be it Pitcairn Island, Belgium, or the Sandwich Islands.

"It is our hope that our guests who do violate the dress code on formal night will seize and desist this activity at their earliest possible opportunity" Kruse continued " It is our goal, fleet-wide, to nip this problem in the butt, Bob, expeditiously with exrtreme prejudice and without added trauma to our guests who do comply in a humanely and orderly manner". When asked if additional rulings to violators commonly referred to as "chair hogs", "hot tub diaper babies", and "beer smugglers" are forthcoming, Kruse winked but would not elaborate!


Attached Thumbnailshttp://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1185658101 (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616&d=1185658101)

[babyher]

We've mentioned pantsuits,sequins,

Oh Yeah

We haven't mentioned turtleneck and sportcoat guy,

Unfortunately.... If your name isn't "Bullitt" it won't fly.


http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/features/2006/greatest-movie-car-chases/03-large/chase-mcqueen-driving.jpg


*LOL* Too funny

When I was a kid we had a couple that lived next door that were just the personification of the 60s (which it was at the time) :)

They were in their mid 20s and the husband always wore the turtle neck with the sportjacket and "love beads" plus he had his hair permed which was big back then for men. (remember a few seasons into The Brady Bunch when Mr. Brady did it ?)*LOL* My Dad used to call him Johnny Cool *LOL*

The wife always wore the micro mini shirts and dresses with these peasent tops that she would hang out of. All the pre teen boys in my neighborhood were in love with her:)

Man back then they were cooler than Martin Landau and Barbara Bain on "Mission Impossible" :)

[pipedreams62]

Reuters; Rotterdam, April 1, 2009: HAL president and CEO Stein Kruse announced today the creation of a new position aboard all of Holland Amerika Lijn's thirty four vessels. The position, formally unveiled today in Rotterdam as the 'tuxedo police', will fall under the Environmental Friendly Department and its personnel will, as such, report directly to the onboard Environmental Officer. Kruse explained that it will be the Tuxedo police's primary responsibility to enforce the dress code onboard ships. He continued by stating that members of the tuxedo police will position themselves at the entrances to the ship's restaurants at all dinner seatings on formal nights where they will cast a critical eye at the compliance, or lack thereof, of the line's dress codes.

"Enough is enough" said Kruse, "We will no longer allow our guests to get away with murder when it comes to properly dressing for dinner on formal night". "Leisure suits, obscenely mismatched color and style combinations, torn blue jeans and/or those recently utlized to change the engine oil in one's automobile, crocodile and/or other amphibian/reptile-based shoes, top garments informally referred to as 'wifebeaters", excessive tatoos, body piercings, male and female pit hair and, above anything else, the public display of male boobs, will be dealt with by the tuxedo police forthwith and with iron fist". "Passengers discovered to be in violation of the "code" will first be asked to return to their respective staterooms to remove said violating garment(s), hair, boobs, tattoo(s) and/or piercing(s)". "If there is no compliance after the first official warning from the tuxedo police, those guests will be given a choice to: a) be quarantined in their stateroom for the remainder of the cruise or: b) be separated from the vessel and their respective cruise without compensation, and deposited at the first sight of land in close proximity, be it Pitcairn Island, Belgium, or the Sandwich Islands.

"It is our hope that our guests who do violate the dress code on formal night will seize and desist this activity at their earliest possible opportunity" Kruse continued " It is our goal, fleet-wide, to nip this problem in the butt, Bob, expeditiously with exrtreme prejudice and without added trauma to our guests who do comply in a humanely and orderly manner". When asked if additional rulings to violators commonly referred to as "chair hogs", "hot tub diaper babies", and "beer smugglers" are forthcoming, Kruse winked but would not elaborate!


Attached Thumbnailshttp://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1185658101 (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616&d=1185658101)


http://open.salon.com/blog/greg_correll/2009/02/11/files/applause1234363884.gif

[babyher]

Reuters; Rotterdam, April 1, 2009: HAL president and CEO Stein Kruse announced today the creation of a new position aboard all of Holland Amerika Lijn's thirty four vessels. The position, formally unveiled today in Rotterdam as the 'tuxedo police', will fall under the Environmental Friendly Department and its personnel will, as such, report directly to the onboard Environmental Officer. Kruse explained that it will be the Tuxedo police's primary responsibility to enforce the dress code onboard ships. He continued by stating that members of the tuxedo police will position themselves at the entrances to the ship's restaurants at all dinner seatings on formal nights where they will cast a critical eye at the compliance, or lack thereof, of the line's dress codes.

"Enough is enough" said Kruse, "We will no longer allow our guests to get away with murder when it comes to properly dressing for dinner on formal night". "Leisure suits, obscenely mismatched color and style combinations, torn blue jeans and/or those recently utlized to change the engine oil in one's automobile, crocodile and/or other amphibian/reptile-based shoes, top garments informally referred to as 'wifebeaters", excessive tatoos, body piercings, male and female pit hair and, above anything else, the public display of male boobs, will be dealt with by the tuxedo police forthwith and with iron fist". "Passengers discovered to be in violation of the "code" will first be asked to return to their respective staterooms to remove said violating garment(s), hair, boobs, tattoo(s) and/or piercing(s)". "If there is no compliance after the first official warning from the tuxedo police, those guests will be given a choice to: a) be quarantined in their stateroom for the remainder of the cruise or: b) be separated from the vessel and their respective cruise without compensation, and deposited at the first sight of land in close proximity, be it Pitcairn Island, Belgium, or the Sandwich Islands.

"It is our hope that our guests who do violate the dress code on formal night will seize and desist this activity at their earliest possible opportunity" Kruse continued " It is our goal, fleet-wide, to nip this problem in the butt, Bob, expeditiously with exrtreme prejudice and without added trauma to our guests who do comply in a humanely and orderly manner". When asked if additional rulings to violators commonly referred to as "chair hogs", "hot tub diaper babies", and "beer smugglers" are forthcoming, Kruse winked but would not elaborate!


Attached Thumbnailshttp://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1185658101 (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52616&d=1185658101)


*LMAO*

I think you made this up:) :) :) .......and by the way there is an officer from a small town in upstate New York who wants his patch back *LOL*

[tuckmics]

I've read and read and read and have seen so many opinions, it make's my head spin. The fact is that those who sail on HAL want to sail on HAL. Nooone in their right mind would purposely break the rules, but the fact is that folks are going to wear what they wear. I specifically decided not to do "formal night". However, I will be walking around the "public" areas in less then "formal" attire on those nights. I will not be forced into my room (since I have paid the same as everyone else) and people need to deal. This is 2009, not 1929. My mother passed away last month and I am currently going through family photos (that go back to the 1850's). I knew my mother (and my grandmother) in the 70's/80's wearing pant suits to every occasion...and these were very stylish women. As I look through these photos, I find my grandmother, for example, in the 1920's wearing flapper dresses and furs. My mother, in the 1950's, looking like June Cleaver. Would never have imagined!! We don't live there anymore and folks need to recognize that. If I was meeting the Queen or the President, would I wear a tux or suit? Absolutely. On a cruise (read VACATION) do I need to? No. Ya all need to get a reality check. Will I be wearing cut offs and a "wife beater" to dinner, absolutely not. Will I be wearing a tux on "formal night" in the lounge? Absolutely not. We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009. Flame away....:p

[pipedreams62]

After turtleneck guy, we need to hit tab collar dude and "Why is my Mexican wedding shirt not formal on the ship when it's formal in Mexico?"

I think after that, we're allowed to discuss the wearing of cowboy boots and/or hats with a suit/tux, then women who wear so little that two sequins and a cork pass for formal wear.

We have a schedule to keep folks. *taps clipboard*

*tongue firmly in cheek*


Please fit this guy in as well. Thanks

http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunnstuffmarch/manmates11.jpg

[babyher]

I've read and read and read and have seen so many opinions, it make's my head spin. The fact is that those who sail on HAL want to sail on HAL. Nooone in their right mind would purposely break the rules, but the fact is that folks are going to wear what they wear. I specifically decided not to do "formal night". However, I will be walking around the "public" areas in less then "formal" attire on those nights. I will not be forced into my room (since I have paid the same as everyone else) and people need to deal. This is 2009, not 1929. My mother passed away last month and I am currently going through family photos (that go back to the 1850's). I knew my mother (and my grandmother) in the 70's/80's wearing pant suits to every occasion...and these were very stylish women. As I look through these photos, I find my grandmother, for example, in the 1920's wearing flapper dresses and furs. My mother, in the 1950's, looking like June Cleaver. Would never have imagined!! We don't live there anymore and folks need to recognize that. If I was meeting the Queen or the President, would I wear a tux or suit? Absolutely. On a cruise (read VACATION) do I need to? No. Ya all need to get a reality check. Will I be wearing cut offs and a "wife beater" to dinner, absolutely not. Will I be wearing a tux on "formal night" in the lounge? Absolutely not. We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009. Flame away....:p



First off , very sorry to hear about your mom.

Second , I agree with you about the pant suits. I too have a ton of old family photos and right before your eyes in just one album you can see the styles change from the furs and jewels and long gowns, to very stylish pants suits and everything in between.

[kenevenpar]

We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009. Flame away....:p


OK, here goes.

[fann1sh]

I've read and read and read and have seen so many opinions, it make's my head spin. The fact is that those who sail on HAL want to sail on HAL. Nooone in their right mind would purposely break the rules, but the fact is that folks are going to wear what they wear. I specifically decided not to do "formal night". However, I will be walking around the "public" areas in less then "formal" attire on those nights. I will not be forced into my room (since I have paid the same as everyone else) and people need to deal. This is 2009, not 1929. My mother passed away last month and I am currently going through family photos (that go back to the 1850's). I knew my mother (and my grandmother) in the 70's/80's wearing pant suits to every occasion...and these were very stylish women. As I look through these photos, I find my grandmother, for example, in the 1920's wearing flapper dresses and furs. My mother, in the 1950's, looking like June Cleaver. Would never have imagined!! We don't live there anymore and folks need to recognize that. If I was meeting the Queen or the President, would I wear a tux or suit? Absolutely. On a cruise (read VACATION) do I need to? No. Ya all need to get a reality check. Will I be wearing cut offs and a "wife beater" to dinner, absolutely not. Will I be wearing a tux on "formal night" in the lounge? Absolutely not. We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009. Flame away....:p

I'm afraid I don't understand your post. I'm not being sarcastic, I genuinely don't understand.

No one would purposely break the rules...you're not going to do formal night....the idea of "dress codes" belongs in 1929 and you'd only wear a suit or tuxedo to meet a president or monarch...you won't be in cut offs in the show lounge, but not in a tuxedo either...So, you'll be in the show lounge...

...in a jacket and tie? So you won't be breaking the rules?

From HAL website:
"On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week. In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening."

If you're saying you also won't be wearing a jacket and tie, then, well.... you're purposely breaking the rules. You're entitled to post that, and I'm not flaming you.

But why cruise HAL when there are so many other lines that do similar itineraries, and don't have formal, or as formal, a dress code?

[Petronillus]

After turtleneck guy, we need to hit tab collar dude and "Why is my Mexican wedding shirt not formal on the ship when it's formal in Mexico?"

And wha' aboot ma dress kilt, Laddie?

[scopewest]

I don't notice what you're wearing but I will notice how you're behaving. I'd rather eat dinner with someone not dressed "properly" on formal night than with the two women at the table next to mine on our last cruise who showed up for every meal dressed to the teeth but 30-45 minutes late. This affected the waiter/asst. waiter service for the rest of us. I tried complaining to those in charge but was told the staff was putting up with it so as not to affect their tips.

As Rita says, it's all about the $$$.

[srlafleur]

From HAL website:
"On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week. In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening."
?

Well, I guess that answers that. "Usually", "asks" and "suggested" doesn't exactly sound like one will be made to walk the plank for an infraction, does it?
Oh, and note the "suit" for the ladies. So a women's suit is suitable.

[pipedreams62]

The Good Humor man with his white suit has been "Grandfathered" in for formal nights.


http://www.gmu.edu/library/specialcollections/acsamr111_1_3f.jpg

[Copper10-8]

The Good Humor man with his white suit has been "Grandfathered" in for formal nights.


http://www.gmu.edu/library/specialcollections/acsamr111_1_3f.jpg

French Navy?

[daveS007]

I just finished my first cruise. Zuiderdam to panama canal. I wore a sport coat and tie etc... First off there were maybe, maybe, 5 percent of the men in tuxedo's. I don't think the cruise company would turn anyone away and you see it all in the dinning room on formal night. I personally could care less but those on these boards that have there panties in a wad over this simply crack me up. I saw it all on formal night !! Another word to the wise regarding formal night or dressing etc... you rarely ever see the same people twice at least we didn't in anytime dinning situation. Wear whatever the you want and to hell with all these uppity peeps.

[fatcat04]

Please fit this guy in as well. Thanks

http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunnstuffmarch/manmates11.jpg

Dear lord... JCPenney, 9 pages of MAN MATES, the humanity!

The benevolent powers that be had allowed my mind to block out this time in fashion. Thank you for bringing it all back. You, sir, are evil. :p;)

[kryos]

I've read and read and read and have seen so many opinions, it make's my head spin. The fact is that those who sail on HAL want to sail on HAL. Nooone in their right mind would purposely break the rules, but the fact is that folks are going to wear what they wear. I specifically decided not to do "formal night". However, I will be walking around the "public" areas in less then "formal" attire on those nights. I will not be forced into my room (since I have paid the same as everyone else) and people need to deal. This is 2009, not 1929.
Don't pay the slightest bit of mind to some of the things you read on this board. You will be fine doing just that.

There are some people here who would have you think it's still the 1940's and HAL is one of those grand old ocean liners. HAL may have been that way at one time, but no longer. Just as with all things, it has changed. HAL has become a modern cruise line catering to all kinds of people.

The only thing I can suggest ... for those who thirst for those bygone days of elegant dress after dark ... a Cunard cruise may suit their tastes a bit more. There, the emphasis is on more elegant dress and since most people on their ships dress that way, I would imagine the codes are probably very strictly enforced.

FWIW, I sailed the QE2 once ... a transatlantic from Southampton to New York in order to get back from a HAL Veendam repositioning cruise. I absolutely fell in love with that grand old dame ... but one look at my fellow passengers in the evening, and I knew I wouldn't be spending too much time out and about after dark. It was a very, very formal environment ... and yes, we're talking tuxes and full-length gowns primarily.

But on HAL, no way ... in fact, I would dare say that probably at least 50% of the people who do follow the dress code on formal nights tend to change after dinner into something a bit more comfortable. Now, on a World Cruise or an extended itinerary in Europe, that might be different. But on most of the HAL (and even the Princess cruises I've been on) that has been the case.

Go and enjoy. Just dress nicely in the evenings, and you'll be fine anywhere out and about on the ship.

Just remember what I said before ... HAL wants you out and about and they don't much care what you are wearing when you are there (of course, assuming you are dressed in a manner showing the appropriate respect to your fellow passengers; i.e., no shorts, tee-shirts, etc.). HAL wants you out on the public decks ... visiting the casino, the shops, the lounges and the bars. Cha ching! They don't make squat when you're sitting in your cabin, right? And today, it is all about making money ... it has to be ... these cruise lines are fighting for their very survival in these economic times.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[fann1sh]

Rita, your posts on dress codes always puzzle me. What you "see" people wearing on HAL ships is the opposite of what I "see".

I don't need to go cruise with Cunard to find a line with a formal night ambiance I like....HAL is it.

Because, people in general observe the dress code on formal nights.

If you think HAL is fine, too, because people don't follow the dress code....we're all good.

[Koshlong]

I DO wish they would ban plaid Polo shirts :eek: in the Pinnacle Grill. We made our guys wear jackets...............

[Boytjie]

OK, my fault and don't assume that any more. In fact, by your aviator photo and other details from your posting we have a lot of things in common.
I appoligize and guess I was in a pissy mood last night. I need to leave these kinds of threads alone.
John

Apology accepted. Disclosure: I edited my first reply in time and toned it down. :)

[pipedreams62]

http://albanysinsanity.wnymedia.net/blogs/files/2008/05/could-hear-a-pin-drop.jpg

[fridayeyes]

And wha' aboot ma dress kilt, Laddie?

Actually, I've seen gentlemen in full dress kilts on formal night and I positively *adore* it. :)

[Tamaracboy]

My personal opinion on women's pantsuits are that they belong in the board room and should not count as acceptable formal night wear. In my (not so) humble opinion, men should wear suits or tuxedos, and women should wear dresses on formal nights. Period. Honestly, I think women's pantsuits are nowhere near "formal" in the least. I cannot understand why others feel that they are formal wear. I don't find ANY women's pantsuits to be anywhere NEAR fancy or formal. But whatever, that's just me...

There are women I know who don't own, never wear, have never worn dresses (maybe when they were 3 or 4). They wore beautiful white suits to their wedding.

I feel the need to post again some of my insight/input from a competing "Dress Code" thread mere inches away here on CC, just in case "all 'ya all ain't readin' 'nuff" on this (the 4,783rd redundant) thread on everybody's opinion on just exactly how everybody else should dress in the MDR ! : : : :

The truth of all this is the concept that: "If I have/want to dress this way, then you do too."
Depending on the poster, you can alternately substitute any/all of the following: "spend this much" or "be this uncomfortable" or "pack this much extra weight" OR (more truthfully) "BE JUDGED BY OTHERS"

How arrogant and petty of anyone to presume "Then you do too" for another human being !

Imagine this alternative: "I enjoy dressing 'Formal' for my own delight", thus not imposing your will on others.

The Tuxedo (or Dinner Jacket) is Semi-Formal evening wear (just ask any London tailor).
FORMAL evening/dinner wear (for men) is correctly "White Tie & Tailcoat" with Waistcoat ! :rolleyes:
Hope this deflates the unnecessary "Pretension Factor" from all current, previous and future (and there will be more) discussions of "Proper" HAL Dining Room attire.
99% don't even know of what they speak, which has yet to dissuade them from doing so. :mad:

This anecdote may be quite dated (1/2 Century ago), but it does put things in their "Proper" perspective:
The Dutchess of Windsor (no less), at the time considered THE ! model of fashion for the World as well as THE most famous woman, etc. etc., was refused entrance to the Dining Room in a conservative hotel, and in front of the ever-present reporters, for wearing PANTS! :eek:
Mind you, this "Formal" ensemble was something personally custom designed for her by Yves Saint Laurent (no less, again) and had set the fashion world on its head, AND she had just been featured on the cover of Time (no less) as the absolute Zenith of style & taste. :confused:
Now, HAL even suggests "Pants Suits" for "Formal" wear. :cool: (Viola would never presume to be more stylish or fashionable than the Duchess of Windsor)

While travel for most is educational and enlightening, it truly surprises me the number of the especially seasoned HAL passengers that are proving themselves to be purposefully immune to "Cultural Diversity". For me this is the very signature that one is educated and well mannered as opposed to superficially effete. The panoply of just what exactly is "Formal" (especially for men) should not be limited to one's own narrow Western European perspective. What is the height of formality in India, South Africa, SE Asia, Japan, Mexico, Bavaria or any other corner of this marvelous World is frequently far more "elegant", beautiful to look at, varied and colorful, and expensive than the laughable Black & White (unimaginative) "Penguin Suits" that would satisfy some stuffy Maitre 'd on HAL (or elsewhere). :p
Somewhere here on HAL/CC is an equally heated (and pointless) thread as to the propriety of military "Mess Dress" in the MDR on formal nights. {Of course it IS !}
As more of a lesson:
ASSUME the 2nd Coming were to happen onboard any HAL-DAM on Formal Night, should HE be denied entrance to the Main Dining Room ?
Just Asking,

[Jenbo57]

Rita,
I absolutely agree. I don’t want to seem like some bohemian…I would never wear shorts and flip flops anywhere, including the Lido (or for that matter, most places I go at home). And not withstanding HALs (or any cruise line’s) need to bring in the $$$, I really believe that the dress code needs to reflect the cruise. Alaska (and the NW in general) is a more casual place. While I agree that on formal nights , folks should wear appropriate clothes TO THE DINING ROOM; since we will forgo that experience, I don’t think we should be relegated to our cabin. Having said that, if we were sailing the Med, then yes, I would comply with the much more formal expectations. And make no mistake, if we were planning on eating in the dining room, we would certainly dress the part. But we are taking this cruise for relaxation and to decompress…my mother passed away last month…so we don’t want to be bothered with dressing up, dealing with party people, kids, noise, etc. HAL seemed like the best option. We will certainly refrain from embarrassing ourselves and fellow passengers.:)


Amen! We'll be right there with you in our fleece pullovers, REI jackets and Merrell trail shoes! (Us Pacific Northwesterners are the only folks who really know how to dress for an Alaska cruise!!! ;))

Sorry about your mom. We first cruised to Alaska in '06, several months after my husband had lost both his parents. It was just what he needed.

(P.S. We're in Bremerton, so we're practically neighbors!)

[fridayeyes]

I feel the need to post again some of my insight/input from a competing "Dress Code" thread mere inches away here on CC, just in case "all 'ya all ain't readin' 'nuff" on this (the 4,783rd redundant) thread on everybody's opinion on just exactly how everybody else should dress in the MDR ! : : : :

The truth of all this is the concept that: "If I have/want to dress this way, then you do too."
Depending on the poster, you can alternately substitute any/all of the following: "spend this much" or "be this uncomfortable" or "pack this much extra weight" OR (more truthfully) "BE JUDGED BY OTHERS"

How arrogant and petty of anyone to presume "Then you do too" for another human being !

Imagine this alternative: "I enjoy dressing 'Formal' for my own delight", thus not imposing your will on others.

The Tuxedo (or Dinner Jacket) is Semi-Formal evening wear (just ask any London tailor).
FORMAL evening/dinner wear (for men) is correctly "White Tie & Tailcoat" with Waistcoat ! :rolleyes:
Hope this deflates the unnecessary "Pretension Factor" from all current, previous and future (and there will be more) discussions of "Proper" HAL Dining Room attire.
99% don't even know of what they speak, which has yet to dissuade them from doing so. :mad:

This anecdote may be quite dated (1/2 Century ago), but it does put things in their "Proper" perspective:
The Dutchess of Windsor (no less), at the time considered THE ! model of fashion for the World as well as THE most famous woman, etc. etc., was refused entrance to the Dining Room in a conservative hotel, and in front of the ever-present reporters, for wearing PANTS!
Mind you, this "Formal" ensemble was something personally custom designed for her by Yves Saint Laurent (no less, again) and had set the fashion world on its head, AND she had just been featured on the cover of Time (no less) as the absolute Zenith of style & taste.
Now, HAL even suggests "Pants Suits" for "Formal" wear. :cool: (Viola would never presume to be more stylish or fashionable than the Duchess of Windsor)

While travel for most is educational and enlightening, it truly surprises me the number of the especially seasoned HAL passengers that are proving themselves to be purposefully immune to "Cultural Diversity". For me this is the very signature that one is educated and well mannered as opposed to superficially effete. The panoply of just what exactly is "Formal" (especially for men) should not be limited to one's own narrow Western European perspective. What is the height of formality in India, South Africa, SE Asia, Japan, Mexico, Bavaria or any other corner of this marvelous World is frequently far more "elegant", beautiful to look at, varied and colorful, and expensive than the laughable Black & White (unimaginative) "Penguin Suits" that would satisfy some stuffy Maitre 'd on HAL (or elsewhere). :p
Somewhere here on HAL/CC is an equally heated (and pointless) thread as to the propriety of military "Mess Dress" in the MDR on formal nights. {Of course it IS !}
As more of a lesson:
ASSUME the 2nd Coming were to happen onboard any HAL-DAM on Formal Night, should HE be denied entrance to the Main Dining Room ?
Just Asking,

Hear, hear! Should our paths ever cross in the Crow's Nest, whatever you're drinking is on me. :D

[velotaco]

It comes down to this. Someone might not be able to put on the dog because of reasons far beyond their control. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt before looking down my nose. Any thoughts????

Boy, did I miss the ball where this thread was going. I simply stated a few things that my wife and I do to keep from being caught in the position of arriving on board and not having anything to wear due to lost luggage.
As for, would I look down my nose at you? H*** no. I don't look down my nose at anyone, unless of course, they present themselves to be boorish and pretentious nincompoops. Then I may feel the need to toy with them. I really could care less what my fellow passengers are wearing in the MDR during formal night. If they are allowed to be seated, more power to ‘em. Life’s too short to worry about what others are doing.
It’s funny that many folks equate the dress code for formal night as more like what is worn at your average high school prom then what one would wear to a nice restuarant. The most stringent dress code I’ve ever encountered at a high end restaurant, is the requirement (for men) to have on a jacket and tie.
Wear what you want. If you make it in fine, if not, go change and try again.

[babyher]

I feel the need to post again some of my insight/input from a competing "Dress Code" thread mere inches away here on CC, just in case "all 'ya all ain't readin' 'nuff" on this (the 4,783rd redundant) thread on everybody's opinion on just exactly how everybody else should dress in the MDR ! : : : :

The truth of all this is the concept that: "If I have/want to dress this way, then you do too."
Depending on the poster, you can alternately substitute any/all of the following: "spend this much" or "be this uncomfortable" or "pack this much extra weight" OR (more truthfully) "BE JUDGED BY OTHERS"

How arrogant and petty of anyone to presume "Then you do too" for another human being !

Imagine this alternative: "I enjoy dressing 'Formal' for my own delight", thus not imposing your will on others.

The Tuxedo (or Dinner Jacket) is Semi-Formal evening wear (just ask any London tailor).
FORMAL evening/dinner wear (for men) is correctly "White Tie & Tailcoat" with Waistcoat ! :rolleyes:
Hope this deflates the unnecessary "Pretension Factor" from all current, previous and future (and there will be more) discussions of "Proper" HAL Dining Room attire.
99% don't even know of what they speak, which has yet to dissuade them from doing so. :mad:

This anecdote may be quite dated (1/2 Century ago), but it does put things in their "Proper" perspective:
The Dutchess of Windsor (no less), at the time considered THE ! model of fashion for the World as well as THE most famous woman, etc. etc., was refused entrance to the Dining Room in a conservative hotel, and in front of the ever-present reporters, for wearing PANTS! :eek:
Mind you, this "Formal" ensemble was something personally custom designed for her by Yves Saint Laurent (no less, again) and had set the fashion world on its head, AND she had just been featured on the cover of Time (no less) as the absolute Zenith of style & taste. :confused:
Now, HAL even suggests "Pants Suits" for "Formal" wear. :cool: (Viola would never presume to be more stylish or fashionable than the Duchess of Windsor)

While travel for most is educational and enlightening, it truly surprises me the number of the especially seasoned HAL passengers that are proving themselves to be purposefully immune to "Cultural Diversity". For me this is the very signature that one is educated and well mannered as opposed to superficially effete. The panoply of just what exactly is "Formal" (especially for men) should not be limited to one's own narrow Western European perspective. What is the height of formality in India, South Africa, SE Asia, Japan, Mexico, Bavaria or any other corner of this marvelous World is frequently far more "elegant", beautiful to look at, varied and colorful, and expensive than the laughable Black & White (unimaginative) "Penguin Suits" that would satisfy some stuffy Maitre 'd on HAL (or elsewhere). :p
Somewhere here on HAL/CC is an equally heated (and pointless) thread as to the propriety of military "Mess Dress" in the MDR on formal nights. {Of course it IS !}
As more of a lesson:
ASSUME the 2nd Coming were to happen onboard any HAL-DAM on Formal Night, should HE be denied entrance to the Main Dining Room ?
Just Asking,



Very well put

I remember when Barbara Walters interviewed Katherine Hepburn (the same interview with the infamous "What kind of tree are you? question)

Miss Hepburn caused a scandal when she wore pants as far back as the 30s .

In typical feisty fashion , Hepburn told Barbara Walters that she wore pants because she liked them, and was more comfortable in them. She didn't like dresses and only wore them in her pictures.

Walters asked her "Do you own a dress?"

Hepburn said "Yes, I have one. I'll wear it to your funeral" *LOL*

Barbara Walters was caught off guard by that one. She did manage to say "I am honored to know you'll be there" *LOL*

[pipedreams62]

Semi-Formal[/u] evening wear (just ask any London tailor).





http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunstuff/duanehansontourists21.jpg

or

http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunstuff/5347491.gif


http://www.trackies.co.uk/nike/tracksuits/tracksuit2.jpg

[Boytjie]

The only thing I can suggest ... for those who thirst for those bygone days of elegant dress after dark ... a Cunard cruise may suit their tastes a bit more.

Oh, so it is OK to tell those that like formal nights to go to Cunard but not OK to tell those that don't do formal to go to NCL. :rolleyes:

There, the emphasis is on more elegant dress and since most people on their ships dress that way, I would imagine the codes are probably very strictly enforced.

Until the I-paid-good-money-and-will-do-as-I-please crowd start sailing on Cunard, I guess. You know, it is all about them.

[pipedreams62]

The Phrase "Sombody Pass The Popcorn"

Will be replaced with


"Someone Get Me A Weiner Before I Die"



http://blogs.amctv.com/diagnosing_jack_nicholson/3oneflew.jpg

[Copper10-8]

Medication time, medication time!

[RevNeal]

Happy Easter! What I was trying to say in not enough words: All dress code threads eventually come down to the same arguments for and against, the arrival on scene shortly after, of the usual suspects (some new ones, not yet identified) to present their case and/or offer their suggestions, the same battle lines are drawn, and eventually, the same end result appears; no changes of opinion. The thread slowly fades away in the sunset, the poor pony is finally assisted out its misery and then we all wait for the next one to appear over the horizon so everything can start over again. But wait.................I'm preaching to the choir, I mean, the reverend;)

'Tis true ... and well said, Officer John. Nevertheless, as a prior post on this thread has recently indicated, there are some people who are new to cruising, new to HAL, and new to CC for whom substantive information regarding HAL's suggested code of dress is helpful. It's for good folk like these that I prefer to post the published code. I may or may not offer up an extensive commentary on it, including suggestions for how guys can minimally abide by the minimal stipulations of the code; that all depends upon the tenor of the thread.

It's a lovely Holy Saturday outside ... nice and chilly after a sometimes too warm week. I think I'm going to take my Dorcas for a walk. :)

[RevNeal]

This is 2009, not 1929.

<SNIP>

We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009.

What does chronology have to do with the issue? The last time I looked people do still wear jackets and ties, dresses and pant suits, etc., to all sorts of things. I will be attending the Symphony tonight (the Church I serve don't have a Holy Saturday Service); the number of men in suits or jackets will be high ... far outnumbering those who are without a jacket. In 2009 there are more styles of Tuxedo now than ever before, and due to the internet they are less expensive and more available now than ever before. Yes, it's 2009. Yes, there is currently a "casual" mood in Western Society. Nevertheless, there are times and places and settings for dressing nicely, and there are places that do still publish a dress code. It being 2009 and not 1929 or 1959 should have very little to do with propriety.

[RevNeal]

I don't notice what you're wearing but I will notice how you're behaving. I'd rather eat dinner with someone not dressed "properly" on formal night than with the two women at the table next to mine on our last cruise who showed up for every meal dressed to the teeth but 30-45 minutes late. This affected the waiter/asst. waiter service for the rest of us. I tried complaining to those in charge but was told the staff was putting up with it so as not to affect their tips.

As Rita says, it's all about the $$$.

Oh, I agree.
However, it's really not an either/or ... is it? It can and should be a "both / and." And, in my personal experience it almost always is.

[RevNeal]

I just finished my first cruise. Zuiderdam to panama canal. I wore a sport coat and tie etc... First off there were maybe, maybe, 5 percent of the men in tuxedo's. I don't think the cruise company would turn anyone away and you see it all in the dinning room on formal night. I personally could care less but those on these boards that have there panties in a wad over this simply crack me up. I saw it all on formal night !! Another word to the wise regarding formal night or dressing etc... you rarely ever see the same people twice at least we didn't in anytime dinning situation. Wear whatever the you want and to hell with all these uppity peeps.

FOFLMAO
http://www.revneal.org/Resources/emoticons/rofl.gif

"those on these boards that have there panties in a wad over this simply crack me up."

:)
Milage will always vary on such matters. Just because you experienced it one way doesn't mean that it will always be that way, on every sailing ... because it's not. HAL is terribly inconsistent on these matters (which is part of the problem). I've been on cruises like you've described -- where the numbers of those not dressed according to minimum of the code rival those who are. I've also been on cruises where the passengers were so well dressed that those gentlemen in jacket and tie looked like they were underdressed. I've done cruises back-to-back where one week was VERY FORMAL, and the next week was decided NOT formal. One can never tell ahead of time what one will get, and due to this inconsistency it is very dangerous to counsel someone else to just "wear whatever you want" because, sure enough, the end result will be that those whom you have so counseled will be singled out and embarrassed when they try to do it on a different sailing. Case in point: we had a lady on this board who told her Dad not to worry about the Formal Night dress code and wear whatever he wanted ... she told him that, based upon her one experience on a HAL cruise that he would never be turned away from the main dinning room. He did as she suggested and, on his cruise, he WAS singled out for not being properly dressed and was NOT admitted to the main dining room on Formal Night ... and, he was utterly embarrassed by it. So, she returned to this board all ANGRY that her Dad was so humiliated by the Line enforcing its dress code on his sailing.

[RevNeal]

Please fit this guy in as well. Thanks

http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunnstuffmarch/manmates11.jpg

Hey ... I used to have one like the guy on the left. :)
Thank GOD those photos have all been destroyed! :D

[debnjoe1438]

It's a lovely Holy Saturday outside ... nice and chilly after a sometimes too warm week. I think I'm going to take my Dorcas for a walk. :)[/quote]

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL a suggestion to those in Florida, please don't wear the shorts to church on Easter Sunday.:D

[RevNeal]

Oh, so it is OK to tell those that like formal nights to go to Cunard but not OK to tell those that don't do formal to go to NCL. :rolleyes:

That double-standard has been in-play for a long time on these threads.

[RevNeal]

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL a suggestion to those in Florida, please don't wear the shorts to church on Easter Sunday.:D

I'm just happy to have 'em in Church on Easter Sunday ... or any Sunday!
I'd let 'em come in Pajamas, if they'll just come! There is no dress code at St. Stephen's.

Somebody, pick up Rita. I think she must have just fainted.

[Pokeynose]

I have one comment to make about Formal night. My DH will be in a dark suit, no tux, I will be in a nice pair of slacks with a dressy top. I will not buy a formal dress that I would not wear again. We had a table for six last cruise, we were the only ones properly dressed on formal night. One other thing, staying dressed after dinner, not us, if we go to the casino I don't want our clothes smelling from smoke so we will change. If we go to a show and there is no smoking we will stay dressed up. If no one likes it, tough petunias. Flame me if you wish, I can take it, but this is how I feel.:rolleyes:

[WhansaMi]

I've read and read and read and have seen so many opinions, it make's my head spin. The fact is that those who sail on HAL want to sail on HAL. Nooone in their right mind would purposely break the rules, but the fact is that folks are going to wear what they wear. I specifically decided not to do "formal night". However, I will be walking around the "public" areas in less then "formal" attire on those nights. I will not be forced into my room (since I have paid the same as everyone else) and people need to deal. This is 2009, not 1929. My mother passed away last month and I am currently going through family photos (that go back to the 1850's). I knew my mother (and my grandmother) in the 70's/80's wearing pant suits to every occasion...and these were very stylish women. As I look through these photos, I find my grandmother, for example, in the 1920's wearing flapper dresses and furs. My mother, in the 1950's, looking like June Cleaver. Would never have imagined!! We don't live there anymore and folks need to recognize that. If I was meeting the Queen or the President, would I wear a tux or suit? Absolutely. On a cruise (read VACATION) do I need to? No. Ya all need to get a reality check. Will I be wearing cut offs and a "wife beater" to dinner, absolutely not. Will I be wearing a tux on "formal night" in the lounge? Absolutely not. We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009. Flame away....:p

Tuck, good for you!

I'm appalled that some folks would have people hidden away because they aren't wearing tuxedos, or <gasp> have the nerve to be a woman in a pantsuit.

Yuck. People like this make me *want* to take another trip on HAL, just so I can be an agent of change.

[Nancyquilts]

I have one comment to make about Formal night. My DH will be in a dark suit, no tux, I will be in a nice pair of slacks with a dressy top. I will not buy a formal dress that I would not wear again. We had a table for six last cruise, we were the only ones properly dressed.
Question, not a flame. If you were dressed formally last cruise, wouldn't you still have the same outfit now? :confused: I must have been using the same two dresses for 10 years now - since I don't see the same people on each cruise, why not? (And they probably wouldn't remember, if I did see them again) ;) After all, DH has been wearing the same white dinner jacket for a lot longer than that.

[Pokeynose]

Question, not a flame. If you were dressed formally last cruise, wouldn't you still have the same outfit now? :confused: I must have been using the same two dresses for 10 years now - since I don't see the same people on each cruise, why not? (And they probably wouldn't remember, if I did see them again) ;) After all, DH has been wearing the same white dinner jacket for a lot longer than that.

No, I didn't wear a dress on the last cruise either. Like I said dressy pants and dressy top. The pants were palazo (sp?) so they came down to my ankles and full, I will wear those again. I don't like dresses, I'm short and not a small size so this is what looks best on me. Thanks for asking.:)

[Copper10-8]

...................... One other thing, staying dressed after dinner, not us, if we go to the casino I don't want our clothes smelling from smoke so we will change. If we go to a show and there is no smoking we will stay dressed up. If no one likes it, tough petunias. Flame me if you wish, I can take it, but this is how I feel.:rolleyes:

Seeing folks in the casino, the show lounge, Crow's Nest, etc. on formal nights in other than "formal clothes, as requested by HAL" happens all the time on every cruise we've been on, i.e. is routine business. Wether these are folks who never 'dressed up in formals' in the first place and/or those that did do that (dress up to 'code') but then decided to 'dress down' after dinner, HAL is not going to advise those folks to leave the public lounges (incl. the casino) just because they are no longer 'adhering to' the 'suggested' code.

[DizzyDallasDi]

On my Eurodam cruise, I got on an elevator after eating dinner in the Lido on formal night. I was wearing shorts, nice tee top and sandals...perfectly acceptable in the Lido on formal night. The couple in the elevator commented that they were headed back to their cabin to change, too. I was actually headed back to my cabin for the remainder of the evening. As others have stated, outside of the dining room you'll see people dressed in a variety of attire. Some will continue the evening formally and others will be dressed more casually. I think that as long as you're dressed "tastefully" on formal night (outside of the dining room), you'll fit right in.

Diane

[Pokeynose]

Thanks John and Diane. You go on a cruise to be comfortable and relax. Dressing appropriately for dinner is what we do but boy do I want to dress down afterwards.:D

[kryos]

I have one comment to make about Formal night. My DH will be in a dark suit, no tux, I will be in a nice pair of slacks with a dressy top. I will not buy a formal dress that I would not wear again. We had a table for six last cruise, we were the only ones properly dressed on formal night. One other thing, staying dressed after dinner, not us, if we go to the casino I don't want our clothes smelling from smoke so we will change. If we go to a show and there is no smoking we will stay dressed up. If no one likes it, tough petunias. Flame me if you wish, I can take it, but this is how I feel.:rolleyes:Sounds to me like you have the right idea, Pokeynose, and you should have a wonderful cruise too!

A lot of people here think I advocate coming to the dining room or wandering the ship on formal nights looking like a slob. Far from it. I always say dress like you care and like you want to look nice. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go out and buy a full-length gown or some super fancy dress that you're never gonna wear at home. Personally, if I'm gonna buy something for a cruise, I'd rather spend my money on something that can do "double duty" on other occasions. A nice pair of slacks and a dressy blouse ... or even a plain blouse with some accessories or a jacket ... works fine. I've always dressed that way and have never gotten anything in the way of dirty looks from my fellow passengers or my tablemates. In fact, as far as being dressed, I think in most cases I was dressed just as appropriately as they were. Sure, you're gonna see some folks dressed to the nines in the dining room and around the ship, but I'd be willing to bet that most of those people dress that way because they truly enjoy it ... and if so, then that's exactly what they should do. Maybe they have those types of formal clothing in their wardrobes because they routinely go to "affairs" of that nature at home. They are comfortable in those clothes and like getting dressed up. And, I say great for them!

But for the majority, you will see them dressed nicely, but not necessarily dressed in what some folks on this board would consider "formal" ... and that's perfectly okay too.

I think the bottom line here is don't deliberately thumb your nose at your fellow passengers by walking around the ship looking like a slob on formal night ... shorts, a tee-shirt, flip flops, etc. As long as you don't do that, you'll fit in just fine.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Seeing folks in the casino, the show lounge, Crow's Nest, etc. on formal nights in other than "formal clothes, as requested by HAL" happens all the time on every cruise we've been on, i.e. is routine business. Wether these are folks who never 'dressed up in formals' in the first place and/or those that did do that (dress up to 'code') but then decided to 'dress down' after dinner, HAL is not going to advise those folks to leave the public lounges (incl. the casino) just because they are no longer 'adhering to' the 'suggested' code.
LOL ... of course not. You think HAL wants them sitting in their cabins all night? HAL doesn't make any onboard revenue when they change into their jammies and snuggle up in that nice HAL bed, with perhaps a good video playing on the tv. HAL wants them out and about ... and as long as they are wearing something decent to cover their private parts, HAL could care less if it's formal, casual or something in between.

Remember the mantra ... cha ching! :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I'm just happy to have 'em in Church on Easter Sunday ... or any Sunday!
I'd let 'em come in Pajamas, if they'll just come! There is no dress code at St. Stephen's.

Somebody, pick up Rita. I think she must have just fainted.
LOL ... naaaaaa, I'm okay. I'm just sitting here wishing I could be in your congregation. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Yuck. People like this make me *want* to take another trip on HAL, just so I can be an agent of change.
Just take a cruise with me and you'll see another whole side of HAL, and have a great time in the process too.

It's funny, but you really don't see too many people onboard judging their fellow passengers in terms of dress. Oh, if someone really gets extreme -- bellying up to the bar in a pair of shorts and a raggedy tee-shirt at 8:00 p.m. on a formal night -- yeah, they might get some looks and they might even be refused service (and, yes, I actually saw that happen once in the Ocean Bar -- done very discretely, of course). But that's the extreme, and I don't think most of us would do that. But as for the tux and gown thing, the only people who seem to have a problem with passengers "dressing down" into something a bit more comfortable after dinner on a formal night seem to be a few of the ones right here on this board ... not the average passengers you will meet onboard the ship.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Copper10-8]

LOL ... of course not. You think HAL wants them sitting in their cabins all night? HAL doesn't make any onboard revenue when they change into their jammies and snuggle up in that nice HAL bed, with perhaps a good video playing on the tv. HAL wants them out and about ... and as long as they are wearing something decent to cover their private parts, HAL could care less if it's formal, casual or something in between.

Remember the mantra ... cha ching! :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

Hence, the changing of the show times to 7:00 and 9:00 PM;)

[usha]

Hence, the changing of the show times to 7:00 and 9:00 PM;)
Hmmmmm, interesting hypothesis...:cool:

[Boytjie]

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL a suggestion to those in Florida, please don't wear the shorts to church on Easter Sunday.:D

I don't think God would mind the shorts, they will be in church at least. ;)

[Boytjie]

i'm just happy to have 'em in church on easter sunday ... Or any sunday!
I'd let 'em come in pajamas, if they'll just come! There is no dress code at st. Stephen's.

Somebody, pick up rita. I think she must have just fainted.

Amen to that!

[Boytjie]

One other thing, staying dressed after dinner, not us, if we go to the casino I don't want our clothes smelling from smoke so we will change.

Are you going to the casino naked? :eek: If not, won't the clothes you change in also smell of smoke? :confused:

If we go to a show and there is no smoking we will stay dressed up. If no one likes it, tough petunias.I don't believe smoking is allowed in the theater.

Flame me if you wish, I can take it, but this is how I feel.:rolleyes:Why do people always throw out the flame shield? Is it to ward off any comments that may not go with the poster's opinion? (And no, this is not a flame!)

[Boytjie]

Yuck. People like this make me *want* to take another trip on HAL, just so I can be an agent of change.

Or you could try a cruise line that has already adopted that which you want to change HAL to. Why do you feel the need to change HAL if you have other options?

[Justgottago]

I'd let 'em come in Pajamas, if they'll just come! There is no dress code at St. Stephen's.

Greg – There is no dress code at St Johns either. I have been wearing polos and shorts to church all summer long but for Easter Sunday today I wore my best dark suit and dw wore her “mother of the bride” elegant outfit .
This has been a fascinating thread to read from start to finish. I agree with previous posters who pointed out that in our society standards of formality in dress have generally relaxed over time, and I know that I am dressing less formally at church, at work, or in a restaurant than I would have 20 years ago.
In any situation I like to conform to what is generally acceptable and would never wish to wear a tee shirt, jeans or a cap in the main dining room of a ship. I am more comfortable wearing a similar standard to most fellow diners. I would happily take and during the cruise wear each of my tuxedo, dark suit and navy blazer – in fact on our Princess cruise out of Auckland, our home port, I did just that. However we are faced with the reality that when we fly and cruise we are stuck with packing to comply with airline weight limits, in our case 50lb for our flight back from Alaska.
We are cruising on Statendam to Alaska in June. I would appreciate the opinions of previous cruisers as to what is the level of dress actually worn on HAL Alaska cruises, as opposed to the line's promulgated dress code?

[RevNeal]

I'm appalled that some folks would have people hidden away because they aren't wearing tuxedos, or <gasp> have the nerve to be a woman in a pantsuit.

Who has said that they want people "hidden away" because they are not wearing Tuxedos or are wearing a pantsuit? Please be specific and provide direct citations with direct correlation to the not wearing of Tuxedos or the wearing of pantsuits.

[RevNeal]

HAL is not going to advise those folks to leave the public lounges (incl. the casino) just because they are no longer 'adhering to' the 'suggested' code.


You are absolutely correct ... to the point of shorts and t-shirts, as I proved.

[RevNeal]

LOL ... naaaaaa, I'm okay. I'm just sitting here wishing I could be in your congregation. :)

If you're ever in the Dallas area on a Sunday morning, please feel free to join us at either the 8:30 or 11 am services. :) It's a laid back, liberal, open and welcoming congregation. I enjoy serving as their pastor.

[Pokeynose]

Are you going to the casino naked? :eek: If not, won't the clothes you change in also smell of smoke? :confused:

I don't believe smoking is allowed in the theater.

[/size]Why do people always throw out the flame shield? Is it to ward off any comments that may not go with the poster's opinion? (And no, this is not a flame!)

Yes the casual clothes will smell but I can send them to the laundry. I don't want to send DH's suit and my dress clothes to be laundered or drycleaned since we will wear them to the Pinnicle a couple of nights. Naked to the Casino, that's a thought:eek: but I would scare everyone at my age. I hope I have answered all your questions.:rolleyes:

[Beebob1]

I just came off the e-dam today. The dress code Was not what I expected by reading the board here. Most were in a suit & tie or nice dress. I didn't see any of the upscale folks like I thought would be cruising. Maybe it was just this once. However I plan not to take the "required" clothes on the next HAL cruise. I loved the cruise and will travel HAL again. I do not believe HAL is as upscale as "they" believe or the "finer" folks here who believe "they" are. The e-dam ship may be upscale but the cruisers are not.

[RevNeal]

We are cruising on Statendam to Alaska in June. I would appreciate the opinions of previous cruisers as to what is the level of dress actually worn on HAL Alaska cruises, as opposed to the line's promulgated dress code?

It can vary greatly, depending upon the passenger mix.
Here is what I would do if luggage were an extreme issue:

I would pack a pair of dark grey slacks, a white shirt, and two ties in my luggage and wear dockers, sport shirt, and a black jacket on the plane. On the formal nights I would wear the dark grey slacks, white shirt, tie, and black jacket. Code met, no luggage impact ... easy. And, regardless, you'll be fine on the cruise -- you certainly won't be overdressed relative to your fellow passengers, neither could you be possibly underdressed relative to the code.

I will be aboard the Ryndam and the Amsterdam this May for two cruises in Alaska. I will be bringing a black suit and clericals for formal nights; on several Smart Casual nights I will wear dockers, sport shirt, and black sports jacket.

[RevNeal]

I just came off the e-dam today. The dress code Was not what I expected by reading the board here. Most were in a suit & tie or nice dress. I didn't see any of the upscale folks like I thought would be cruising. Maybe it was just this once. However I plan not to take the "required" clothes on the next HAL cruise. I loved the cruise and will travel HAL again. I do not believe HAL is as upscale as "they" believe or the "finer" folks here who believe "they" are. The e-dam ship may be upscale but the cruisers are not.

You say you observed that most people were wearing suit and tie or nice dress on the cruise. You do realize that this reflects the dress code, and that most (if not all) on the dress-up side of the debate would be perfectly happy with this. Do many of us wear Tuxedos or dresses? Sure ... many of us own them and wear them on cruises. But that isn't what is "required."

[iancal]

It would not bother me in the least if you were not wearing your formal togs. I would not be so rude as to engage you in a conversation about your chosen attire in case of causing you any embarassment whatsoever-and I would not be that interested. I am a big believer in MYOB and live and let live.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Greg – There is no dress code at St Johns either. I have been wearing polos and shorts to church all summer long but for Easter Sunday today I wore my best dark suit and dw wore her “mother of the bride” elegant outfit .
This has been a fascinating thread to read from start to finish. I agree with previous posters who pointed out that in our society standards of formality in dress have generally relaxed over time, and I know that I am dressing less formally at church, at work, or in a restaurant than I would have 20 years ago.
In any situation I like to conform to what is generally acceptable and would never wish to wear a tee shirt, jeans or a cap in the main dining room of a ship. I am more comfortable wearing a similar standard to most fellow diners. I would happily take and during the cruise wear each of my tuxedo, dark suit and navy blazer – in fact on our Princess cruise out of Auckland, our home port, I did just that. However we are faced with the reality that when we fly and cruise we are stuck with packing to comply with airline weight limits, in our case 50lb for our flight back from Alaska.
We are cruising on Statendam to Alaska in June. I would appreciate the opinions of previous cruisers as to what is the level of dress actually worn on HAL Alaska cruises, as opposed to the line's promulgated dress code?

Ah yes, the church dress code is now creeping into the cruise ship dress code. I like it. My BIL's brother (or, my sister's BIL...whichever way, he's the same person) is the pastor at his Friday night non-denominational church. Very dressed down affair and he welcomes his congregation in any attire...just come and listen and learn is his mantra. I think this is the new wave for churches today...they simply want to fill the church to spread "the word." Dressing for dinner on a cruise ship is different. It's meant to be a festive and elegant affair. I understand and respect that.

I also want to know if an Alaska cruise would trend toward less formal attire during formal evenings. Given the weight limitations on airlines and the heavy apparel that one needs to lug to a cold environment, does this affect the way people dress in the evenings? I'm taking my first Alaska cruise next month and want to be prepared.

Diane

[WhansaMi]

Who has said that they want people "hidden away" because they are not wearing Tuxedos or are wearing a pantsuit? Please be specific and provide direct citations with direct correlation to the not wearing of Tuxedos or the wearing of pantsuits.

Well, let's see:

from ViolaSwamp:

>>My personal opinion on women's pantsuits are that they belong in the board room and should not count as acceptable formal night wear. >>

From RuthC:

>>People who do not wish to dress for the evening, or to change after dinner, are welcome on outside decks, and the Lido Deck.
But the show lounge, other lounges, casino, are all areas where the dress code continues until it's time to retire for the night. >>

[iancal]

Oh oh, I think we broke the rules either by not wearing dress attire, or as often as not, wearing a dark suit but changing back into casual for the casino, the show, or just walking around. Guilt is overtaking us.

[COLLEYBERRY]

[quote=Tamaracboy;19042511]
As more of a lesson:
ASSUME the 2nd Coming were to happen onboard any HAL-DAM on Formal Night, should HE be denied entrance to the Main Dining Room ?
Just Asking,[/quote

HE might then remind us that the most unattractive thing any one can wear is a look of disdain for their fellowman.

Best wishes to all enjoying Easter and Passover this weekend.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Well, let's see:

from ViolaSwamp:

>>My personal opinion on women's pantsuits are that they belong in the board room and should not count as acceptable formal night wear. >>

From RuthC:

>>People who do not wish to dress for the evening, or to change after dinner, are welcome on outside decks, and the Lido Deck.
But the show lounge, other lounges, casino, are all areas where the dress code continues until it's time to retire for the night. >>

Uh oh...I'm afraid the guilty have been exposed.

[RevNeal]

Well, let's see:

from ViolaSwamp:

>>My personal opinion on women's pantsuits are that they belong in the board room and should not count as acceptable formal night wear. >>

From RuthC:

>>People who do not wish to dress for the evening, or to change after dinner, are welcome on outside decks, and the Lido Deck.
But the show lounge, other lounges, casino, are all areas where the dress code continues until it's time to retire for the night. >>

And the references regarding Tuxedos being considered "required" on Formal Night????

RuthC's remark had NOTHING to do with requiring Tuxedos or denying Pantsuits on Formal Nights. The Dress Code that RuthC references as applying in the public spaces doesn't stipulate Tuxedos as being "required" nor deny the wearing of pantsuits. Indeed ... I think I've seen Ruth wear dress pants on a Formal Night.

Allow me to amplify my point. I do not see people on this board saying that if a man isn't wearing a Tuxedo he must stay hidden in his cabin. The specificity of the "Tuxedo" is critical here ... neither the code, nor we, are asking men to all dress in Tuxedos: a jacket and tie is just fine. And, while you illustrated that someone expressed an opinion regarding pantsuits not belonging, it is an EXTREME minority opinion among those of us who like dressing up.

[iancal]

We have never experienced a problem with spending money in the casino or any where else on the ship on formal nights, after changing into casual. Never had as much as look from the blackjack dealer. I think as long as we are spending money, HAL does not really care what we are wearing.

[Nancyquilts]

I also want to know if an Alaska cruise would trend toward less formal attire during formal evenings. Given the weight limitations on airlines and the heavy apparel that one needs to lug to a cold environment, does this affect the way people dress in the evenings? I'm taking my first Alaska cruise next month and want to be prepared.

Diane
Don't worry too much about the heavy apparel - I take a warm fleece with a windbreaker, and a hat that pulls down over my ears. This has always worked (saying that, it won't this year).;)

[DizzyDallasDi]

Don't worry too much about the heavy apparel - I take a warm fleece with a windbreaker, and a hat that pulls down over my ears. This has always worked (saying that, it won't this year).;)

Thank you for your input but I'm curious why won't it work this year? I'm stressing over packing for this AK trip more than any other.

Diane

[Copper10-8]

You are absolutely correct ... to the point of shorts and t-shirts, as I proved.

You were going to let that go:cool:

[WhansaMi]

And the references regarding Tuxedos being considered "required" on Formal Night????

RuthC's remark had NOTHING to do with requiring Tuxedos or denying Pantsuits on Formal Nights. The Dress Code that RuthC references as applying in the public spaces doesn't stipulate Tuxedos as being "required" nor deny the wearing of pantsuits. Indeed ... I think I've seen Ruth wear dress pants on a Formal Night.

Allow me to amplify my point. I do not see people on this board saying that if a man isn't wearing a Tuxedo he must stay hidden in his cabin. The specificity of the "Tuxedo" is critical here ... neither the code, nor we, are asking men to all dress in Tuxedos: a jacket and tie is just fine. And, while you illustrated that someone expressed an opinion regarding pantsuits not belonging, it is an EXTREME minority opinion among those of us who like dressing up.

<sigh> You asked for someone who mentioned pants on women. I complied.

While I don't have the time, or patience, to review the posts in this thread again, I've seen people on this board (the stalwart defenders of the "dress code") wax nostalgically about how men used to wear tuxedos, and now they don't, etc... how women's pantsuits are NOT formal wear.... etc. While you say these posters are in the minority... I don't know. You couldn't tell it by the resounding silence from the "formal night" devotees.

RuthC suggests that those who aren't up the the dress code (yes, it is true, she doesn't define it, in this thread), should indeed, be hidden from view.

I find all of this quitte ... well, gruesome... to be honest. It is one thing to want to dress up for yourself -- for the people who love the opportunity to do so, more power to them. But to say that others have to do the same, or it "ruins" or detracts from your (generic) pleasure is just astounding, to me. What if having to look at people with oxygen tanks around the tables detracts from my visual pleasure? Should that be catered to? How about just general aging? Maybe some folks would rather see a young, beautiful woman in a sundress, than an old lady in a formal gown. Shoot, if we are going that route, all of us old people should hide out, because, really, wouldn't most people prefer to see a dining room full of beautiful people?

In the end, this is about *clothing*, people -- woven goods that keep our bodies from freezing and UV lights. Is that really something we need to judge/evaluate people on?

RevNeal, in your house of G-d, you'll accept people as they are. Should the dining room of some Dam ship be more discriminatory than G-d? Should *human beings* be more judgemental than G-d?

I know that my opinion will change nothing and no one. But, I feel I must voice it, the same way I voice it when I hear people judging a young black student of mine, simply because he wears the baggy jeans (they have no idea that he's my top student). I voice it when I see people assuming that the guy with all the tattoos must be trashy... or the girl with the green hair and emo clothes must not be academically inclined.

I'm really tired of people judging others based on their appearance -- from how they wear their hair, to the clothes they choose, to how they adorn their bodies with jewelry. It may not bring you (generic) visual pleasure, but others don't live to please you (generic).... they should live to please themselves.

Sheila

[Copper10-8]

If you don't mind Ma'am; "emo clothes", never heard of that! Could you enlighten me/us please?

[kryos]

Hence, the changing of the show times to 7:00 and 9:00 PM;)BINGO! :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Are you going to the casino naked? :eek: If not, won't the clothes you change in also smell of smoke? :confused:

LOL ... interesting. Adds a whole new dimension to the term "lost my shirt at the blackjack table." :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[WhansaMi]

If you don't mind Ma'am; "emo clothes", never heard of that! Could you enlighten me/us please?

I have a lot of emo kids. Found a sketch that give you an idea:
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc58/shiana1996/Emo_Kids_by_megoboom.jpg

I like the emo kids. I suspect that, if I were young, I'd be one. :-)

[Boytjie]

I do not believe HAL is as upscale as "they" believe or the "finer" folks here who believe "they" are.

How could it since so many people insist of not following the dress code. :confused:

[Boytjie]

Ah yes, the church dress code is now creeping into the cruise ship dress code.

I don't recall ever seeing church that set a dress code. There may churches where the attendees' tradition dictated a dress code.

I also want to know if an Alaska cruise would trend toward less formal attire during formal evenings. Given the weight limitations on airlines and the heavy apparel that one needs to lug to a cold environment, does this affect the way people dress in the evenings? I'm taking my first Alaska cruise next month and want to be prepared.

See, I don't get this: aren't they the same weight restrictions when you fly to the Caribbean, or most other locations in the US?

[Copper10-8]

I have a lot of emo kids. Found a sketch that give you an idea:
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc58/shiana1996/Emo_Kids_by_megoboom.jpg

I like the emo kids. I suspect that, if I were young, I'd be one. :-)

Thanks, learned something new!:)

[swedish weave]

I will be aboard the Ryndam and the Amsterdam this May for two cruises in Alaska. I will be bringing a black suit and clericals for formal nights; on several Smart Casual nights I will wear dockers, sport shirt, and black sports jacket.


Do the clericals include a tie ? If not, I seriously doubt if they would turn you away from the dining room. Therefore, the interpretation of the dress code is flexible, and I doubt if those who insist on strict application would "turn up their noses at you" as they would me if I was not wearing a tie.

[Beebob1]

You say you observed that most people were wearing suit and tie or nice dress on the cruise. You do realize that this reflects the dress code, and that most (if not all) on the dress-up side of the debate would be perfectly happy with this. Do many of us wear Tuxedos or dresses? Sure ... many of us own them and wear them on cruises. But that isn't what is "required."

How could it since so many people insist of not following the dress code. :confused:

We were dressed in formal for the meals (:confused: required :confused: dress code). Didn't have a problem with that. However I would not have felt out of place if we were dressed down somewhat. Boytjie from the HAL website the dress code is left for people to question. That is Only if you go by what the folks here say is "required". From their website:

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies
usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Cruise+Preparatio n&contentMenu=Baggage,+Packing+%26+Dress+Code&contentSubMenu=Clothing+%26+Dress+Code

Now am I missing the words - required, must, have to :confused: I can not find the word required on this page. It is wonderful for those who Like to dress up. Don't look down on those who are in the mind frame of being on vacation. Slacks & polo shirts are nice. RevNeal I think it is a debate because many insist on the word "required" SHOULD be in the dress code by THEIR standard. Also as you stated "would be perfectly happy", many don't dress to make others happy.

[pipedreams62]

Am I'm good to go?


http://delaney55.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/tattoo-face.jpg

[fridayeyes]

Re: weight

For the Caribbean, I pack shorts, sleeveless tops, strappy sandals, a swimsuit and a short, backless, little black dress.

For Alaska, I pack hiking boots, closed pumps, jeans, a heavy coat, long pants, long sleeves, sweaters, a long gown with a wrap, etc. Ergo, for a cruise of the same duration, the Alaska suitcase will weigh more and require more volume.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if recent changes in weight limits, extra bag fees, etc. have caused a noticeable difference in how much luggage people bring aboard the ship?

On a tangent, I went to one of my favorite stores yesterday (Kohl's). They were having a sale and I am a bargain hunter by necessity. I found a black, knee length, satin and burnout velvet skirt for $4.00, and a delightful blouse with cascading, lace ruffles for $9.60. I also picked up kitten heel Vera Wang pumps for $10.76, and a black, backless, satin lined cocktail dress for $6.70.

Total cost for 2 formal nights worth of clothing?

4.00
9.60
10.76
6.70
--------
$ 31.06
(10.00) - They sent me a $10 gift cert for my birthday
---------
$ 21.06

Viola! I can dress up for about $10 bucks a night. :D

[fridayeyes]

Copper - emo and Goth are somewhat similar. Maybe you've heard of Goth? From the sketch, emo looks to be a shade more grunge rock whereas Goth is, well, Gothic-inspired.

Emo is short for emotional. At least the way it's spoken of in my neck of the woods, emo is usually a term of derision, as in, "So like, Jamie dumped him and he was totally emo."

[Copper10-8]

Copper - emo and Goth are somewhat similar. Maybe you've heard of Goth? From the sketch, emo looks to be a shade more grunge rock whereas Goth is, well, Gothic-inspired.

Emo is short for emotional. At least the way it's spoken of in my neck of the woods, emo is usually a term of derision, as in, "So like, Jamie dumped him and he was totally emo."

Hey, thanks for the background! Yes, I was aware of Goth

[babyher]

Copper - emo and Goth are somewhat similar. Maybe you've heard of Goth? From the sketch, emo looks to be a shade more grunge rock whereas Goth is, well, Gothic-inspired.

Emo is short for emotional. At least the way it's spoken of in my neck of the woods, emo is usually a term of derision, as in, "So like, Jamie dumped him and he was totally emo."


Thats what I was thinking when I saw the pic. A cross between grunge and goth.

I think Emo is a big term in England .

They also have "chavs" which I guess are like the U.S terms "white trash " or another name I can't mention here :)

[COLLEYBERRY]

Re: weight

For the Caribbean, I pack shorts, sleeveless tops, strappy sandals, a swimsuit and a short, backless, little black dress.

For Alaska, I pack hiking boots, closed pumps, jeans, a heavy coat, long pants, long sleeves, sweaters, a long gown with a wrap, etc. Ergo, for a cruise of the same duration, the Alaska suitcase will weigh more and require more volume.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if recent changes in weight limits, extra bag fees, etc. have caused a noticeable difference in how much luggage people bring aboard the ship?

On a tangent, I went to one of my favorite stores yesterday (Kohl's). They were having a sale and I am a bargain hunter by necessity. I found a black, knee length, satin and burnout velvet skirt for $4.00, and a delightful blouse with cascading, lace ruffles for $9.60. I also picked up kitten heel Vera Wang pumps for $10.76, and a black, backless, satin lined cocktail dress for $6.70.

Total cost for 2 formal nights worth of clothing?

4.00
9.60
10.76
6.70
--------
$ 31.06
(10.00) - They sent me a $10 gift cert for my birthday
---------
$ 21.06

Viola! I can dress up for about $10 bucks a night. :D


Wow !!! That 's a skilled 'bargain hunter' folks.Well done ,I am impressed:) Your dry cleaning will cost more,good job !:D

[DizzyDallasDi]

I don't recall ever seeing church that set a dress code. There may churches where the attendees' tradition dictated a dress code. See, I don't get this: aren't they the same weight restrictions when you fly to the Caribbean, or most other locations in the US?

Church dress code: The Baptist church my grandmother and great aunt attended would have villified any woman who dared to set foot in there on Sunday morning in less than a dress and any man who wasn't wearing a suit. I'm guessing you didn't grow up in a southern state. :)

Weight restrictions: Winter clothes weigh considerably more than summer clothes.

[Boytjie]

Boytjie from the HAL website the dress code is left for people to question.

Different interpretation I guess. I don't seeing as being 'left to be questioned' but as a 'polite serious suggestion'.

[/COLOR] From their website:

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies
usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

IMO the 'usually' is used to give examples of what HAL sees as appropriate wear for formal night, not an indication that some people wear tha and others may usually wear jeans.

Now am I missing the words - required, must, have to :confused: I can not find the word required on this page.

And nowhere have I said it is required, so I am not sure if this is directed at me but since I am quoted, I assume it is. My comment was on a different matter.


Don't look down on those who are in the mind frame of being on vacation.

Why jump to the conclusion that people are automatically looking down at others?! :mad: Is it not possible that it is merely a difference of opinion?

Slacks & polo shirts are nice.

And shorts and t-shirts can also be nice. Why should that not be allowed in the dining room too? Or could you be looking down on those that like to wear shorts? :rolleyes:

[Boytjie]

I'm guessing you didn't grow up in a southern state.

I did not grow up in any state. ;)

[kryos]

If you're ever in the Dallas area on a Sunday morning, please feel free to join us at either the 8:30 or 11 am services. :) It's a laid back, liberal, open and welcoming congregation. I enjoy serving as their pastor.
I will definitely keep that in mind, and thank you for the invitation.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RevNeal]

You were going to let that go:cool:


I have.
But that doesn't mean that I can't reference the evidence which I amassed, when and where it is applicable and appropriate to the very circumstances and for the precise reasons why I did what I did.

[RevNeal]

<sigh> You asked for someone who mentioned pants on women. I complied.

Yes, you did. Thank you! I hadn't seen it and am a little surprised by it. It is an opinion I don't remember seeing articulated here often.

While I don't have the time, or patience, to review the posts in this thread again, I've seen people on this board (the stalwart defenders of the "dress code") wax nostalgically about how men used to wear tuxedos, and now they don't, etc... how women's pantsuits are NOT formal wear.... etc. While you say these posters are in the minority... I don't know. You couldn't tell it by the resounding silence from the "formal night" devotees.

I enjoy wearing a Tuxedo. I, however, have been clear in repeatedly articulating that the Dress Code doesn't mandate Tuxedos. Most of my fellow Formal Night "devotees" may also prefer Tuxedos, and mourn the decline in their presence, however I don't know a single one who would say that a gentleman who isn't dressed in a Tuxedo but who is dressed according to the Code's minimal standards (jacket and tie) should stay in his cabin. That was the specificity of my point.

RuthC suggests that those who aren't up the the dress code (yes, it is true, she doesn't define it, in this thread), should indeed, be hidden from view.

Yes, she cites the Dress Code where it asks that passengers remain dressed in the evening's suggested code. But she hasn't anywhere said that a man not dressed in a Tuxedo but in a jacket and tie, or a woman dressed in dress pants, should remain in their cabins, sequestered from view. Indeed, I've seen where she has stated that the Lido deck and the outside decks are all available for those who do not wish to adhere to the evening's dress code. That this is the request printed in the code is beyond question. That many people don't follow it is also beyond question. That it disappoints some/many of us who enjoy formal nights is also true. Those of us who share that disappointment will have differing opinions on this matter. But, regardless of our opinion, or the opinions of others, the code still requests that we remain dressed in the evening's suggested attire.

I find all of this quitte ... well, gruesome... to be honest. It is one thing to want to dress up for yourself -- for the people who love the opportunity to do so, more power to them. But to say that others have to do the same, or it "ruins" or detracts from your (generic) pleasure is just astounding, to me. What if having to look at people with oxygen tanks around the tables detracts from my visual pleasure? Should that be catered to? How about just general aging? Maybe some folks would rather see a young, beautiful woman in a sundress, than an old lady in a formal gown. Shoot, if we are going that route, all of us old people should hide out, because, really, wouldn't most people prefer to see a dining room full of beautiful people?

One can fashion hyperbolic arguments like this all day long, if they wish. It serves no purpose and doesn't make a valid point. The dress code is the dress code: it is not a straight jacket and has a very broad range of interpretation and application. It articulates a hard and fast "not allowed" on one topic only:

"T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours."

That this, too, is sometimes ignored is about the only thing that really bothers me anymore. If the Line isn't going to enforce the last-remaining "not allowed" to be found in their code, they should take the phrase out.

In the end, this is about *clothing*, people -- woven goods that keep our bodies from freezing and UV lights. Is that really something we need to judge/evaluate people on?

What makes you, or anybody else, think that this is about judging or evaluating people by how they dress? It most certainly has nothing to do with my preference for seeing people abide by the dress code. On cruises I simply enjoy, and paid a lot of money to be in, a festively formal environment two nights a week; this is how the Line advertises the character of their formal nights, it is what I expect to find on those nights and what I paid to experience. How people dress -- or don't dress -- will impact that environment. NO judgements or evaluations of individuals' breeding or intrinsic worth is either intended or included, and I deeply resent such intentions being plastered over me.

RevNeal, in your house of G-d, you'll accept people as they are. Should the dining room of some Dam ship be more discriminatory than G-d? Should *human beings* be more judgemental than G-d?

This is a non sequitur argument, but I'll address it nevertheless. Neither God nor the Church has a dress code. Dam ships do.

I'm really tired of people judging others based on their appearance -- from how they wear their hair, to the clothes they choose, to how they adorn their bodies with jewelry. It may not bring you (generic) visual pleasure, but others don't live to please you (generic).... they should live to please themselves.

I am really tired of people constantly assigning such motivations to the reasons why we would prefer that people abide by the published dress code.

[RevNeal]

Do the clericals include a tie ? If not, I seriously doubt if they would turn you away from the dining room. Therefore, the interpretation of the dress code is flexible, and I doubt if those who insist on strict application would "turn up their noses at you" as they would me if I was not wearing a tie.

No, they do not. I look like this:

http://homepage.mac.com/revneal/.Pictures/eurodam2008/ccers/revnealadele1.jpg

Or like this:

http://homepage.mac.com/revneal/.Pictures/noordaminaugral/formalphotos/gregformal1.jpg

"Clergy Formalwear" is nominally understood to be clericals. Ties are not worn with such "uniforms." Similarly, there are military uniforms that are not designed to be worn with ties and yet are formal outfits. They're part of the "exceptions" in Formal Wear Etiquette.

As for the Dress Code having latitude ... of course it does. Certain types of Tuxedos are not designed to be worn with ties (i.e., Nehru Tuxedos). These are worn with neckband shirts, and should have some kind of formal closure (i.e., a jeweled button cover). When I wear my Nehru Tuxedo rather than a black suit or traditional Tuxedo with bow tie, I wear my clerical vest. It makes for a different, formal night look from the standard black suit and clericals or Tuxedo, tie, and cummerbund.

[Beebob1]

Different interpretation I guess. I don't seeing as being 'left to be questioned' but as a 'polite serious suggestion'.

IMO the 'usually' is used to give examples of what HAL sees as appropriate wear for formal night, not an indication that some people wear tha and others may usually wear jeans.

And nowhere have I said it is required, so I am not sure if this is directed at me but since I am quoted, I assume it is. My comment was on a different matter.

Why jump to the conclusion that people are automatically looking down at others?! :mad: Is it not possible that it is merely a difference of opinion?

And shorts and t-shirts can also be nice. Why should that not be allowed in the dining room too? Or could you be looking down on those that like to wear shorts? :rolleyes:

I did see shorts & tees in Lido. I don't want to bash those folks, so why are you bringing it up . Rev you look wonderful but there are much more serious problems in the world than a dress code. I'm out, don't want to cram my thoughts onto anyone. Lets leave it as you stated a difference of opinion.

[Boytjie]

Neither God nor the Church has a dress code. Dam ships do.

Preacher Man, you said what I have been trying to say in so few words. Your sermons should be good :)

[RevNeal]

Rev you look wonderful but there are much more serious problems in the world than a dress code. I'm out, don't want to cram my thoughts onto anyone. Lets leave it as you stated a difference of opinion.

Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it.

And, you are correct ... unfortunately, there are many far more serious problems in the world than a dress code on a cruise ship. It's the nature of this board that conversations such as these pop up here. In some cases this place is more of a "decompression zone" to get away from those real, serious problems and to share common interest and enjoyment of cruising.

And, finally, I certainly agree that it is a difference of opinion, and such differences are not problematic. Or, at least, they shouldn't be.

[Boytjie]

I did see shorts & tees in Lido. I don't want to bash those folks, so why are you bringing it up .

I was trying to make a point, which you obviously did not get.

Rev you look wonderful but there are much more serious problems in the world than a dress code.

Red herring alert! :eek:

[RevNeal]

Preacher Man, you said what I have been trying to say in so few words. Your sermons should be good :)

:) Thanks.
Sometimes I do get longwinded, though. :D
My sermons don't usually run longer than 20 minutes, though.

[Chelly]

I plan to have a nice, laminated, pin-on name tag made up with the following name printed on it. "Lost Luggage"

Will wear as necessary.

[mudscraper]

I plan to have a nice, laminated, pin-on name tag made up with the following name printed on it. "Lost Luggage"

Will wear as necessary.
Or perhaps a Sandwich Board.


Rich

[Cruisin'Lady]

To the OP of this thread....I had to smile at your plight as it reminded me of the story of my honeymoon. My hubby and I had booked a last minute (less than 4 weeks from time of booking to departure) cruise for our honeymoon 25 years ago. I smile because I know can laugh at the story.

We got married on a Saturday and the cruise had started that day (was an overnighter Sat. night) in Alcapolco. Since we couldn't get to Alcapolco from LA that night...we took an early morning flight on Sunday. Since this was 25years ago the security was very relaxed and they had what was known as skycaps. Well, we got to the airport 30 minutes before take off (unheard of now a days!) and checked our bags with the skycap at the curb. He said no problem on getting our baggage to the plane (a well placed tip encouraged him) and we were off to the plane.

We ended up on time in Alcapolco and our plan was to check into the ship then take a couple hours walking around the port before departure. When we got off the plane...the airport was extremely crowded. We waited at the turnstyle and watched all the luggage come and go. Yet ours was not there!

After filling out the paperwork and waiting for the next two planes to come in from L.A. (back then..it was not unusual for your baggage to fly on a different plane than the one you were on). After six hours at the airport we gave up and headed for the ship.

The only clothes we had were what we were wearing and my formal dress (which we carried on in a suit bag...another thing that is no longer permited I think). We left Alcapolco totally defeated as we were very young newly weds who booked a cruise and never recieved our document folder, thus didn't know to mark our suitcases with the ships info, as this was our first cruise!

Now back then they did have formal nights...we happened to have two of them because it was thanksgiving...plus the captain had invited us to his table to dine with him one evening. He had heard of our troubles. Plus back then they dressed in suit and tie and ladies in dresses EVERY evening! The first night I was so embarrassed to walk into the dinning room with jeans and a blouse that I turned around and walked out! WE ended up having dinner in our cabin that night!

Now we didn't have the luxury of extra money to buy the expensive suits hanging in the on board ships store. As it was my dad gave us a $50 in LA when he dropped us off at the airport. That was all the money we had for the week. We didn't have credit cards and personal checks were not accepted (not that there was any money in that account either).

Now this story just keeps getting better...the next morning we sat at our table in the dinning room and met all the people who were our perminant eating partners (yes fixed sitting). They all were great about understanding our plight but they also found it very amusing! After all...what do honeymooners need with clothing?! There was one couple who was closer to our age who very kindly offered some of their extra's. In other words...he offered my hubby a suit jacket and tie. One of the cabin stewards offered my hubby a white shirt to barrow for the whole cruise. He had to wear his dockers as pants but it worked for most nights. I on the other hand...had one formal dress and no underthings or shoes except what I was wearing on the plane. All I had was my tennis shoes. So a woman offered me sandels that were size 81/2 and I wore a size 5 at the time! But I figured it would be better than tennis shoes.

So the second night was the night the captain requested our presence at his table for dinner. Here I walked in feeling very embarrased. Hanging on to my hubby's arm afraid that I would trip with the boats strapped on my feet! The captain was very gracious. When he found out that our luggage would not be catching up with us at any of the ports...he had a gift package sent to our cabin with travel toothbrushes, combs, toothpaste and fancy soaps, deoderants and razors.

At the very next port...we were baking in our travel clothes...so we purchased a one piece sunsuit and swimsuit for me and swimtrunks and tank top for my hubby. In all...we spent almost all our "spending money" in that port. The worst part was having to wash out my underthings every night in the cabin sink...then let them dry overy night. The next morning I would have to pound them on the counter to "soften" them as they would be stiff as a board! Tells you the quality of ship water back in the day!

The good parts were that everyone on the ship eventually knew who we were. We were the butt of many jokes...but we decided all we could do is laugh about it. We only got the one honeymoon! Complete strangers would come up to us and say "Oh your the honeymooners without clothes!" or "what are you doing out of your cabin??". But we also had complete strangers buying us champaine and wine and sending it by the bottles over to our table at dinner. We are not drinkers...but always had dinner guest happy to oblige in a glass or two!!

So my suggestion to those who look down on someone who dresses down at dinner the whole cruise....lighten up! Life is to short! You never know..maybe its their first and only cruise and they didn't have money for the extras. Who cares?? Send them a bottle of wine and help make their cruise memorable!:D

[Copper10-8]

Great story, Cruisin' Lady!:)

[innlady1]

Cruisin Lady.....what a wonderful story.....and memorable honeymoon! :D

[swedish weave]

RevNeal --- I appreciate your response, and you look terrific in your clericals.

I asked the question to get those who rant about strict application of the dress code to think rationally and ease up a bit on their comments. The dress code says "TIE".

[sapper1]

This is a non sequitur argument, but I'll address it nevertheless. Neither God nor the Church has a dress code. Dam ships do.

You said it all very well in your post but this is my absolute favourite. I laughed out loud!!!

[Cruisin'Lady]

Thank you Copper10-8 and innlady1. I thought it a pretty good story too! BTW...we did get out luggage back. Hubby had a note on his desk when he returned to work. The luggage was sitting at LA airport the day after we left acapolco. Never even left the airport. So much for well placed tips! Never used a skycap since!

[tuckmics]

Jenbo57,
Thank you so much for the post. We have been stressing over this cruise (which I know we should't, since it is suppose to be a vacation). I can dress with the best of them...my partner and I actually own tuxs...but this cruise is for relaxation and winding down. The friends that we are going with are very casual and want not to bring a bunch of formal attire. It is what it is. We will all be fine, but it is interesting how the folks here live in so many different realities. I love it and am really looking forward to the trip.
Also, while I certainly have several suits, probably 100 ties, and other "appropriate" dress, I spend much of my time in one of my 6 pairs of Merrells (used to be Birkenstocks, but who wears those any more?) and 8 Columbia fleece jackets!! I know it sounds horribly stereotypical, but that is the way we dress here in the NW and yes, I wear socks with my sandels!! Take care in Bremerton!!

[pipedreams62]

Jenbo57,
I spend much of my time in one of my 6 pairs of Merrells (used to be Birkenstocks, but who wears those any more?) and 8 Columbia fleece jackets!! I know it sounds horribly stereotypical, but that is the way we dress here in the NW and yes, I wear socks with my sandels!! Take care in Bremerton!!


http://nahright.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/exile-shhh.jpg

[ViolaSwamp]

And, while you illustrated that someone expressed an opinion regarding pantsuits not belonging, it is an EXTREME minority opinion among those of us who like dressing up.

Maybe it's an extreme minority opinion, so be it. :)

I don't really give two hoots about what people choose to wear on formal (or any other) night.

I stated my opinion that I don't think pantsuits are truly formal wear for women. I think they're fine for the board room but I wouldn't be caught dead in one of my many pantsuits on a cruise line formal night - I feel I should wear a dress and look feminine, on formal night. Looking ready to take on Donald Trump, by being a woman wearing a pantsuit is not particularly elegant IMO.

I'm not going to castigate those who choose not to dress up or women who choose to wear pantsuits instead of a dress on formal night. I honestly don't care. I generally don't notice, unless someone looks like a real slob. ;) On our RCCL cruises we opted to stay out of sight on formal nights because we didn't feel like dressing up. So I don't have a horse in the race either way. I should be able to have an opinion about pantsuits for crying out loud! :)

[babyher]

Maybe it's an extreme minority opinion, so be it. :)

I don't really give two hoots about what people choose to wear on formal (or any other) night.

I stated my opinion that I don't think pantsuits are truly formal wear for women. I think they're fine for the board room but I wouldn't be caught dead in one of my many pantsuits on a cruise line formal night - I feel I should wear a dress and look feminine, on formal night. Looking ready to take on Donald Trump, by being a woman wearing a pantsuit is not particularly elegant IMO.

I'm not going to castigate those who choose not to dress up or women who choose to wear pantsuits instead of a dress on formal night. I honestly don't care. I generally don't notice, unless someone looks like a real slob. ;) On our RCCL cruises we opted to stay out of sight on formal nights because we didn't feel like dressing up. So I don't have a horse in the race either way. I should be able to have an opinion about pantsuits for crying out loud! :)

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

But not all pantsuits are the same. There are some very stylish looking ones and have seen women wear them at fancy functions and look very nice.

They aren't all those asexual Armani things that Hillary Clinton wears.

[twinkletoes4445]

Jenbo57,
Thank you so much for the post. We have been stressing over this cruise (which I know we should't, since it is suppose to be a vacation). I can dress with the best of them...my partner and I actually own tuxs...but this cruise is for relaxation and winding down. The friends that we are going with are very casual and want not to bring a bunch of formal attire. It is what it is. We will all be fine, but it is interesting how the folks here live in so many different realities. I love it and am really looking forward to the trip.
Also, while I certainly have several suits, probably 100 ties, and other "appropriate" dress, I spend much of my time in one of my 6 pairs of Merrells (used to be Birkenstocks, but who wears those any more?) and 8 Columbia fleece jackets!! I know it sounds horribly stereotypical, but that is the way we dress here in the NW and yes, I wear socks with my sandels!! Take care in Bremerton!!

We did not do formal on our last cruise (Noordam-10-day-Caribbean) and we will probably never do formal again because we enjoyed it so much! We did go to the dining room one evening because we wanted to try the AYWD (which we loved, which came as a HUGE surprise). After reading the boards prior to our cruise, we thought we'd probably dine in our cabin on the three formal nights, but we ended up loving the Lido so much, that we spent most evenings there dining.

A vast majority of the people on our cruise remained dressed in their formal clothes after dining, but many did not. As long as you're dressed nicely, no one is going to care. Hubby wore Docker's and polo-type shirts and I wore Capri's (every single evening) and no one gave us a second glance.

I personally was a little intimidated when it came to our first HAL cruise because after reading here, I thought I'd be forced to walk the plank if I wasn't dressed-up enough. Sadly, on that cruise, we took way too many clothes, but we were glad we brought extra casual clothing, because this is what we wore. I knew better the second time around.

We do respect the dining room dress code for those evenings, and dine elsewhere since we don't "dress." HAL is basically sitting on the fence on this one because of the wording they use for dinner attire. "Usually and "suggested" doesn't mean they are required. They do say "Printed T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours" although we saw many people dressed this way, and their dress has no impact on our cruise whatsoever.

Actually, we met a lovely couple who never dressed formally the entire cruise and they were as friendly as they could be. Always waved and said "hello" and many times stopped to chat with us. In contrast to this, we saw a few "formal wear" people who were as snotty as they could be, so I'd say, clothing certainly does not make a person.

HAL will never make formal dress in the public areas (on formal night) mandatory. If they do, they will lose a lot of passengers ... including us, and we LOVE HAL and would hate to go to another cruise line.

Don't stress ... go and have fun! When we cruised this last time we had a lot going on in our lives (with family illnesses) and the very last thing on my mind was what others were wearing!!

[twinkletoes4445]

But not all pantsuits are the same. There are some very stylish looking ones and have seen women wear them at fancy functions and look very nice.

They aren't all those asexual Armani things that Hillary Clinton wears.

No, they aren't. I've got a few very "fancy" ones that I wear to formal occasions. I've got one pair that's hard to tell if it's a skirt or pants. :)

[ViolaSwamp]

There are indeed some very nice pantsuits out there - I just don't consider any of them nice enough for formalwear per se. ;)

Just my singular opinion, not intended to offend any pantsuit wearing females out there!

There are people who might not care for my 3.5" stilettos, and I'm not personally offended by their opinions. Unless they said to me, "ViolaSwamp, your shoes are fugly and you're an idiot". Now THAT might offend me. Just stating their opinion on whether or not they like a certain apparel item doesn't bother me. :p

[twinkletoes4445]

Speaking of stilettos ... I bought a pair of Betsey Johnson's that are awesome, but I haven't worn stilettos in years. I've mastered walking on carpet, but I need to work on "stairs." When I bought them at Nordstrom's ... the sales clerk said, "Work it, girlfriend!" My daughter was speechless ... a first. lol Getting old can be fun ... sometimes. :)

I don't dare try wearing them on a cruise ship! Not yet. :)

[babyher]

Speaking of stilettos ... I bought a pair of Betsey Johnson's that are awesome, but I haven't worn stilettos in years. I've mastered walking on carpet, but I need to work on "stairs." When I bought them at Nordstrom's ... the sales clerk said, "Work it, girlfriend!" My daughter was speechless ... a first. lol Getting old can be fun ... sometimes. :)

I don't dare try wearing them on a cruise ship! Not yet. :)

My mom now in her 80's can still wear them. She comes from the school that wore them all the time so she is used to them.

When she saw my DDs pair she told her she used to dance all night in them when she was her age. Talk about making a teenaged girl speechless, my mother asked her if the guys still refer to them as "F*** me shoes"

[ViolaSwamp]

My mom now in her 80's can still wear them. She comes from the school that wore them all the time so she is used to them.

When she saw my DDs pair she told her she used to dance all night in them when she was her age. Talk about making a teenaged girl speechless, my mother asked her if the guys still refer to them as "F*** me shoes"

:eek:

That is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D

[maxsmamma]

Yes, Petronillus, that's exactly what the expectation is.

People who do not wish to dress for the evening, or to change after dinner, are welcome on outside decks, and the Lido Deck.
But the show lounge, other lounges, casino, are all areas where the dress code continues until it's time to retire for the night.

As pointed out, the HAL website suggests that you stay in your formal clothing until you retire. For those who are new to HAL, in actuality, many people will change before the shows, or time in the piano bar. Also, people who choose not to dress for dinner and dine elsewhere can go to the shows, the screening room or anywhere they would like in any clothing. You are WELCOME in any place (especially if you are interested in buying a drink). No staff member will stop you, or suggest you wear a coat. (as they might in the Dining Hall)

[fann1sh]

My mom now in her 80's can still wear them. She comes from the school that wore them all the time so she is used to them.

When she saw my DDs pair she told her she used to dance all night in them when she was her age. Talk about making a teenaged girl speechless, my mother asked her if the guys still refer to them as "F*** me shoes"

:eek:

That is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D

I love the Spenser books by Robert B. Parker. Valediction, chapter 9: "Susan had told me that those kind of shoes were called f***-me shoes. 'On the assumption that you didn't want to order them in quite that way to a saleslady at Filene's,' I had said, 'what else would you call them?' Susan had said that she'd simply have to find some and point."

[pipedreams62]

If This means what I think it means

http://bp3.blogger.com/_IFjX6ExlBsQ/RYh3lHFFoNI/AAAAAAAAAEE/ZzV2TlIWhBg/s400/italian_heels06.jpg

What does this mean?


http://www.photoshopdiva.com/images/personal/birkies.jpg

[twinkletoes4445]

My mom now in her 80's can still wear them. She comes from the school that wore them all the time so she is used to them.

When she saw my DDs pair she told her she used to dance all night in them when she was her age. Talk about making a teenaged girl speechless, my mother asked her if the guys still refer to them as "F*** me shoes"

That is a good one! :)

With my kids, there are usually two things that are running through their minds when encountering a situation like this with me (or their dad). The first is ...OMG I am embarrassed. The second is ... OMG, will this be "ME" when I am that age???

Like I wasn't embarrassed a gazillion times by some of the things my kids pulled, and genetically speaking, they are hosed! lol Sometimes it's best not to get a glimpse of your future. lol :)

[twinkletoes4445]

As pointed out, the HAL website suggests that you stay in your formal clothing until you retire. For those who are new to HAL, in actuality, many people will change before the shows, or time in the piano bar. Also, people who choose not to dress for dinner and dine elsewhere can go to the shows, the screening room or anywhere they would like in any clothing. You are WELCOME in any place (especially if you are interested in buying a drink). No staff member will stop you, or suggest you wear a coat. (as they might in the Dining Hall)

Exactly!

And depending on your itinerary, hanging out on the outside decks could be rather chilly. I guess instead of packing formal clothes, you better pack a blanket!