Young children in Pinnacle?

[PollyH]

Have 88 days on HAL with my late husband. Have booked a trip with daughter and family ( 6 year old) Dec 12. Oosterdam. She would like to include the little one at the Pinnacle, I think it would be more appropriate for me to take him to the Lido that evening. This is a touchy situation. Please help me...

[PollyH]

I don't want to cause any problem for other diners at the Pinnacle.

[Esme]

Polly - 6 may be a little too young for the Pinnacle only because the little one may get very restless.

Last time I was on a HAL ship I walked by the Pinnacle and saw a Grandfather dining with his 2 grandsons. I would say they were about 10-12 years old. Oh, they were so cute, dressed in gray flannels and navy blazers, hair neatly combed with big smiles on their faces as they ate their Volcano cake.

We would not hesitate to take our 11 year old grandson, but our grandaughter (9) is a different story. All she will eat is a grilled cheese or a hot dog. :eek: :p If we ever take them on a cruise, she will eat in the Lido! :D

[PollyH]

Thanks so much for the quick response. I have told my daughter that they don't serve chicken nuggets or hot dogs and that the service is "relaxed". S he assures me that she will bring entertainment for him and all will be well. I know that in past years, I really enjoyed that personal restaurant experience with my husband and would not have been happy if there were young children around us. I am a good Grammy, I think they should have a night alone????

[PollyH]

I am willing to babysit...

[Ziggy7]

She should check with the ship, there may be an mimium age requirement :)

[peaches from georgia]

Polly, I applaud you for being so considerate towards other pax who will be dining in the Pinnacle, for recognizing a potential problem with your grandson before it occurs, and for offering to have your meal in the Lido with him and foregoing the Pinnacle yourself.

Of course a 6 year old doesn't belong in the Pinnacle. Neither the food nor the ambience is child-friendly and (I hate to say this, but will) your daughter really is being inconsiderate to her fellow pax. You're a great Grammy and Mom.

[palmgirl]

Polly, I agree with you. From my experience in the Pinnacle a 6 year old would be out of place and probably bored & unhappy. What type of entertainment is his mother going to provide :confused:

My son was wonderful in resturants as a small child, but at 6 I would not want to place him in such a small, intimate, quiet atmosphere. It was hard enough taking him to my sister's wedding:eek:

You are very generous to offer to babysit. I hope you can work this out so everyone is happy. Your daughter should be thrilled at the offer and enjoy a romantic dinner with her husband. IMHO

Good luck and enjoy your cruise.

[palmgirl]

She should check with the ship, there may be an mimium age requirement :)

Excellent thought Ziggy :)

[peaches from georgia]

Even if there is not a minimum age for eating in the Pinnacle or if it is lower than 6, would you really think it appropriate to do so? Is it fair to the other pax, to the Pinnacle staff, or to the child himself for that matter? :confused:

[Jemima]

The Pinnacle doesn't need to be booked before the cruise. Your daughter should wait till the cruise, walk past during dining hours the first or second evening, and also see how the 6 year old does with the regular dining room. She may discover for herself that it would be an inappropriate setting for her son.

[sail7seas]

Unless he is an extremely sophisticated eater for such a young child, I don't know what he would eat.

A 16 oz. rib eye steak? A Filet Mignon? Salmon?
Creamed Spinach? Sliced tomato and onion salad?

There are no hot dogs or chicken fingers available and it would be unreasonable IMO to expect the waiter to go to the main ship's galley to get him some. That would take him away from the other tables he is serving and would effect the service that other pax are expecting to be prompt and efficient.

I don't think a six year old boy would enjoy it very much. He's much better off with Grammy or at Club HAL if there are some evening activities.

[cruisinjudy]

When my son was that age we always called ahead to restaurants we were not familiar with to ask abut the ambience and friendliness to children. As well behaved as my 6 yr old was, I can't imagine taking him to someplace like the Pinnacle.

[debsea]

It depends on the child. My eldest would have been fine in the Pinnacle from the age of two. Many times we had people at fine restaurant make a point of commenting how well behaved he was. But, out of consideration for fellow guests, I wouldn't have dreamed of taking my other two there until they were at least ten. My mom would have done what the best grandmas do and offer to take them to the Lido so we could enjoy a wonderful time in the Pinnacle.

[sdcruiser]

We're planning on taking our 8 year old son to the Pinnacle Grill on the Oosterdam, sitting with the other five family members, who are all traveling together. We are, of course, paying for the entire Pinnacle experience, for all family members.

My son is a good eater, loves salmon, filet, etc. and had done really well in the main dining room sittings, over the past several years on five past cruises. Maybe he's more sophisticated than I thought. I can't imagine that he will take away from the experience of others in the restaurant. The waiters in the main dining room absolutely adore him, and vice versa.

SDCruiser

[superstein61]

It really depends on the child. If they have been taken out to restaurants in the past and know how to act - I say take them. Why deprive them of the experience?

My wife and I used to take our daughter to dinner every Friday after she was born. She knows how to act in a restaraunt better than most adults. I would have had no problem taking her at age 6

[jollycruiser]

Personally, I would have never considered bringing my kids to the Pinnicle when they were 12 or younger. Unless the child can be very quiet and sit still for 90 minutes without a doubt, I would never take the chance of embarresment and affecting the experince of my fellow pax. There is nothing more annoying than going out for a gourmet dinner and having a whining child or one that can not sit still in the vicinity.

I have even seen instances where parents allow their kids to leave the table and wander between tables. It is not about the kids, it is about the choices the parent makes without regard for others.

[gizmo]

I have not eaten in the Pinnacle but from everything I have read here, the service is at a very leisurely pace. Most kids would get bored to death.

You could make reservations during Club Hal hours. Either order room service, which many kids get a kick out of, or take her to the Lido for a quick meal.

[jhannah]

This is just my opinion ... but a 6-year-old does not belong in the Pinnacle Grill, no matter how well-behaved she/he is. The valid reasons are noted above. Children are just not the intended audience for that dining venue. Thanks for having consideration for the other passengers.

[Cindy-Sue]

I don't recall how long it took to eat at the Pinnacle, but on Celebrity ships, the alternate dining experience usually takes 2 1/2 to 3 hours! I can't imagine any 6 year old being patient for that long. Even if he was, I don't think he would have fun doing it.

[bepsf]

My parents used to dress me up and take me everywhere - restaurants, theatre, dinner parties, movies, etc. I would bring a book to the parties and I often fell asleep during the shows, but Mom figured that was the only way to teach me (and later my sister) how to behave in public. (Misbehavior was not tolerated back in those days)

They often remind me of when I was almost 6, they took me to a posh restaurant where the menu was nearly as tall than I. When the waiter came around and asked what I'd like, I ceremoniously shut the menu, looked up at the waiter and announced that I was going to have the London Broil.
:cool: :eek:

Poor Dad gained alot of weight back in those days...
;)

[dakrewser]

It really depends on the child. If they have been taken out to restaurants in the past and know how to act - I say take them. Why deprive them of the experience?

My wife and I used to take our daughter to dinner every Friday after she was born. She knows how to act in a restaraunt better than most adults. I would have had no problem taking her at age 6
We've been agreeing too much, lately. :rolleyes:

A couple of years ago my (then) 6-year-old granddaughter came to visit. When we asked what she'd like to do while here she answered "go to Spago!". (Spago is Wolfgang Puck's restaurant in Palo Alto, CA). She was a big fan of Puck on the Food Channel, it seems. While I was a tad leery about bringing such a young child to a fine dining experience, my wife convinced me to give it a try. Not only was she fine with sitting at table for over two hours, but she entranced the staff with her "wise beyond her years" selections and comments.

Not all kids need chicken nuggets or hot dogs, mac & cheese or fries. Disruptive people - whatever their age - should eat in the Lido. But any child who can behave in the dining room should be OK in the Pinnacle.

Jemima's suggestion: "Your daughter should wait till the cruise, walk past during dining hours the first or second evening, and also see how the 6 year old does with the regular dining room" seems very appropriate.

As we've noted in other threads about children, it isn't really the child that's the problem, but the parent. And just as many of you complain vociferously about preceived age discrimination on board (think about the comments on the ambient music these days), you should remember that the young can also be discriminated against.

-dave

[Cruiseoften]

Hi Polly - seems to me that much depends on how your grandson has been brought up. If he's regularly taken to 'up scale' restaurants and has acquired a taste for food other than fries, nuggets, etc. he might do just fine.

As to the entertainment his mother says she'll provide, I wonder about that - even a 6 year old should not be playing games, drawing or reading at the dinner table and as someone else said, his boredom should not be relieved by allowing him to wander around.

I truly think a phone call to HAL is in order.

[peaches from georgia]

The problem is that if they let one 6 year old in to the Pinnacle there is no way then to tell someone else that their child, who may not be as well-behaved, isn't welcome. Let one in and it sets a precedent and ruins it for all who expect an adult fine dining experience.

Since when do kids have rights to be able to go everywhere and anywhere? Isn't this one of the reasons that there is Club Hal open in the early evenings???

[Ziggy7]

On the Zuiderdam last Aug, there were lots of families in the Pinnicle, to us it looked like there was a section for adults only and another for families. We didnt notice any disruptions from where we were sitting, and to be honest, we didnt see anything that indicated it was an adult only resturant, so I was suprised to see it suggested here as such. Also in all fainess we were there on the first night of the week when it was casual as well, but most seemed dressed nicely, even the kids. So if it is adult only maybe they have one night ( the first night of the cruise) for famlies ????? We had a great time at any rate and will be going there again one day :)

[KCat]

Have 88 days on HAL with my late husband. Have booked a trip with daughter and family ( 6 year old) Dec 12. Oosterdam. She would like to include the little one at the Pinnacle, I think it would be more appropriate for me to take him to the Lido that evening. This is a touchy situation. Please help me...
Polly, I really am so sorry to here about your husband. We lost our Grandpa this year, nothing in life has been harder.

I truly hope you and your daughter can work something out so that YOU do not miss out on the experience of the Pinnacle Grill that would obviously mean so much to you. I hope that you have a nice time on your cruise.

[bepsf]

Disruptive people - whatever their age - should eat in the Lido.
-daveI completely agree w/ Dave that misbehavior is not an age-issue.

We experienced one older "gentleman" on the O-Dam who was so drunk and abusive in the Pinnacle that the Maitre'd dismissed him and his companion from the room (to cheers and applause from the nearby tables):eek:

Given the choice, I'd much rather have a nicely dressed and well behaved 6 year old quietly reading a book, stacking sugarcubes on his bread plate between courses, special ordering a club sandwich or falling asleep face-first into the mashed potatoes (as I've been told I had done in various restaurants at one time or another when I was 4-5...) :eek: If and when a little meltdown does occur, it's the parent's duty to sweep the child out of the dining room until all is rectified...
(or the sharks are fed):rolleyes:

As my grandmother told my mother - "If you don't take him to these places, he'll never learn how to act."

Then again, he may end up being a snooty Tuxedo-wearer like me...
;)

[dakrewser]

Then again, he may end up being a snooty Tuxedo-wearer like me...
;)
Hopefully. The barbarians ARE at the gate! :rolleyes:

-dave

[dakrewser]

The problem is that if they let one 6 year old in to the Pinnacle there is no way then to tell someone else that their child, who may not be as well-behaved, isn't welcome. Let one in and it sets a precedent and ruins it for all who expect an adult fine dining experience.

You mean like allowing adults in the dining room?

Inappropriate behavior, whether from a child or an adult, should be dealt with quickly and efficiently. Loudmouths who insist on their "rights" (without worrying about their responsibilities) should be dealt with summarily. But no one should be discriminated against simply because of their age.

-dave

[Mary Ellen]

Unless HAL has an age restriction, I'd say it depends upon the child/parents. My nephew was brought up dining out (in NICE) places. He would have been fine. The daughter of a friend would have been fine at 6 too. Outside of those 2, none of the children I know would be well-behaved for such an experience.

I'd hate for Leon or Shelby to have missed the experience - IF they wanted to go and it was allowed - because some strangers thought otherwise. I wouldn't want the Pinnacle to be a first 'fine dining' experience for a child though.

[peaches from georgia]

But no one should be discriminated against simply because of their age.
-dave
If it is 'discrimination' for there to be a minimum age for dining in the Pinnacle, as you have said, then you are saying there should be no 'Kids Free' zones on any ship. Casino? Lounges? Spa? Aft pool certain hours? Currently there is 'discrimination' in those public areas based solely on age. What you are saying is that children of all ages should have entry everywhere on a HAL ship.

Somehow I don't believe that is really what HAL pax want, but so be it. Then I hope HAL will start instituting adults only cruises as I think Celebrity has done.

[lknick]

Some six year olds do well in any dining situation. Some should only be fed on the back porch.

The problem is many times the parents do not know the difference.

[sdcruiser]

Peaches from Georgia,

Don't forget, you were a kid once. Although I don't imagine you were cruising when you were at ages 6-10, but if you were and were allowed in similar upscale places onboard at that young age, I'm sure you'd have a different opinion about it now. Your words, 'ruin the restaurant experience', are too strong.

In today's family oriented cruise market, unless it's a casino, strip club, or adult movies that are being shown in the Pinnacle Grill, kids should be able to join their parents for an extremely nice night out at this restaurant.

I do believe, however, that if the parents know their child doesn't do well in the main-dining room, they should also realize that the Pinnacle would not be suitable either. It is up to each parent's judgement in this particular case.

SDCruiser

[dakrewser]

What you are saying is that children of all ages should have entry everywhere on a HAL ship.
Please do not attempt to put words in my mouth.

If you have an objection to children, as children, then ban them. If, on the other hand, you object to disruptive behavior, then ban that.

Would you not object if I were to say that all Georgians are crackers and should be banned from polite society? Definitely some are, so why not just keep them all out?

-dave

[jhannah]

Some six year olds do well in any dining situation. Some should only be fed on the back porch. The problem is many times the parents do not know the difference.And therein lies the rub!

[shipgirl56]

She should check with the ship, there may be an mimium age requirement :)There was no age requirement when we were on the Oosterdam. A family ate there with their 3,4, and 5 year old. I wouldn't want to pay extra to eat at the Pinnacle and then have a figgity child disturb my special dinner. The child will not like the pinnacle food. Make a special time and have Grammy and grandchild have dinner in the Lido and a special activity. It just depends on the child. The 3, 4, and 5 year old were better than some adults I've seen. They were very cute on formal night in their matching tuxes.

[Deltala]

I have a very strong suspicion that Polly knows that her grandchild will not do well at the dinner. She seems to also not want to offend her daughter by telling her that he is not suited for that venue. Polly, you should be commended for being so considerate of the fellow diners as well as showing compassion for your grandson.

[superstein61]

We've been agreeing too much, lately. :rolleyes:

A couple of years ago my (then) 6-year-old granddaughter came to visit. When we asked what she'd like to do while here she answered "go to Spago!". (Spago is Wolfgang Puck's restaurant in Palo Alto, CA). She was a big fan of Puck on the Food Channel, it seems. While I was a tad leery about bringing such a young child to a fine dining experience, my wife convinced me to give it a try. Not only was she fine with sitting at table for over two hours, but she entranced the staff with her "wise beyond her years" selections and comments.

Not all kids need chicken nuggets or hot dogs, mac & cheese or fries. Disruptive people - whatever their age - should eat in the Lido. But any child who can behave in the dining room should be OK in the Pinnacle.

Jemima's suggestion: "Your daughter should wait till the cruise, walk past during dining hours the first or second evening, and also see how the 6 year old does with the regular dining room" seems very appropriate.

As we've noted in other threads about children, it isn't really the child that's the problem, but the parent. And just as many of you complain vociferously about preceived age discrimination on board (think about the comments on the ambient music these days), you should remember that the young can also be discriminated against.

-dave
We have haven't we. But what you mention is spot on. It really depends on the child and the parent

[superstein61]

The problem is that if they let one 6 year old in to the Pinnacle there is no way then to tell someone else that their child, who may not be as well-behaved, isn't welcome. Let one in and it sets a precedent and ruins it for all who expect an adult fine dining experience.

Since when do kids have rights to be able to go everywhere and anywhere? Isn't this one of the reasons that there is Club Hal open in the early evenings???
Hold on here - the Pinnacle is opne to all. it is not designated adults only. So do not try and imply it is.

[superstein61]

If it is 'discrimination' for there to be a minimum age for dining in the Pinnacle, as you have said, then you are saying there should be no 'Kids Free' zones on any ship. Casino? Lounges? Spa? Aft pool certain hours? Currently there is 'discrimination' in those public areas based solely on age. What you are saying is that children of all ages should have entry everywhere on a HAL ship.

Somehow I don't believe that is really what HAL pax want, but so be it. Then I hope HAL will start instituting adults only cruises as I think Celebrity has done.
Ummm - I do not believe you speak for all HAL passengers - so how do you know what they want ???

[Ziggy7]

What are the HAL rules for this ??? I cant find anything on it!

[CaptData]

I have nothing against children (I had two) but I always thought that the Alternative (fee based ones) were adults only. I know on the Princess one, they sais 16 and up. On thr RCCL one it was 12 and up. Please, check with the cruise line and see if there is an age limit. By the way, you are a good mom and grandmom, offering to take the child some where else while mom and dad have a quite dinner.

[ABoatNerd]

A very good morning dear CC members:

Good thread. There are many threads on all boards related to individual conduct on cruise ships. There seems to be a concern that the ship board experience is being "hijacked" by an increasing % of patrons (of all age groups) who engage in loud, disruptive and disrespectual of the rules/suggested guidelines.

Regarding the Pinnacle - Any one should be able to access the Pinnacle as long as they CONFORM to the STATED decorum in the venue. Now, here is the rub, this is only valid IF the required conduct in this restaurant is CLEARLY STATED. HAL should then ensure that if any patron is violating this conduct, they are removed. If a 2 yr old or a 82 year old can sit quietly for 1.5 hours and not be disruptive of the "quiet ambiance" in this venue, then fine.

On a recent Celebrity cruise, I had the chance to watch 2 "nuclear families" in action, one would be fine in Pinnacle, one should have been sent ashore:

Exhibit A - 2 children ages 11 and 9. Quiet voices, quiet sitting in chairs enjoying their discussions with parents. They would point things out in the dining room and they were in no way disruptive. Earlier I had seen these children in the young adult area and they were yelling and running around. Obviously the PARENTS had taught them "context specific" rules.

Exhibit B - 2 children ages 14 and 9. Total chaos, yelling, fighting etc, up setting the dining chairs etc. I personally had enough of the disruption (they were a table away) and I "forced" and I mean "forced" the maitre de to speak with them. Nothing happened, so I went to the table and stated that their behavior was rude and to "get out of the restaurant", then of course a couple at this sorry table then spoke up and asked their table mates to leave..... They left.

It was totally pathetic that a patron of the cruise line (me) had to address this behavior because obviously the staff of the Millenium dining room were useless.

Lesson here, it depends on the people. Basically, set the rules of conduct, inform patrons and address issues immediately. This is basic common sense.

So, if a 6 year old can conduct themselves in the Pinnacle to adhere to the decorum in this venue, fine.

ABoatNerd

[PollyH]

I am amazed at the response to my question about children dining at the Grill. This has been quite helpful. The decision is out of my hands as my daughter has made reservations for our party of seven for the first night of our trip. I will participate with a hopeful attitude. She plans to feed him early at the Lido so he won't be expected to eat off the menu...just keep us company during dinner. Wish us luck. Thanks for all your input. PollyH

[sail7seas]

Good luck. I know you are hesitant about your grandson being taken to Pinnacle.

I'm confused as to this boy sitting while everyone else eats? He's supposed to Watch? Why would his mother not want him to learn how to dine in a fine dining place if she is insistent about him accompanying the family? I know it is for her to decide what her son will or will not do but how does he learn from the experience if he does not Experience it?

How to order from the menu. How to inquire from a waiter any questions he has as to preparation/presentation? How to decide what he wishes to eat from the menu. Proper use of utensils. Aren't these big reasons for him joining everyone? Of course, he will get all of that in the regular dining room.

(I am not forgetting the obvious that he will share his company with everyone and will be able to share in everyone else's company. )

Please let us know how it goes.

Hope you all have a wonderful cruise.

[Esme]

Polly - being the Grandmother of an 9 & 11 year old, I wish you luck. I remember what they were like at age 6. :p The older one would have been fine at that age, but the younger one - no way! :eek:

Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

[lknick]

The most expensive PB&J or mac & cheese in the world can be obtained at the Pinnacle.

Personal experience.

[super_grover]

I agree with many other posters that it depends on the child. I would have been fine at 6 in any establishement and the concequences for not behving as expected were always made clear. Perhaps, although it would detract from your experience Polly, if the little one gets out of hand you could offer to take her back to the cabin for some time out. I myself endured many a 5 minute time out in the bathroom when my manners were less than stellar.
That being said, there is no definitive age at which you can start to ban people. My 16 year old brother's behavior is about as reliable as that of a 5 year old.

[peaches from georgia]

...Perhaps, although it would detract from your experience Polly, if the little one gets out of hand you could offer to take her back to the cabin for some time out....
I don't want to get flamed for saying this, but Polly offering to take the little one back to the cabin if he misbehaves in the Pinnacle is exactly what I hope Polly will not do. She has gone above and beyond the call of duty already, trying to see that this situation does not occur. She has offered to keep the child the entire time her daughter and spouse enjoy the Pinnacle and was turned down.

Enough. Her daughter has refused Polly's offer and advice and so be it. If there are consequences, let her daughter suffer them, not Polly. She is the one who insisted on taking a 6 year old to the Pinnacle, not Polly. I still think of my kids (in their 30s and 40s) as 'kids' themselves and it's never too late to teach them to listen to Mama. Right, Polly? ;)

[Esme]

Oh, you are so right, Peaches. It's out of Polly's hands now and she should not be the one to take the lad back to the cabin but should stay and enjoy her meal - she's done all she can. I think it's now up to her daughter or SIL to look after the little boy if he gets restless or misbehaves.

Polly, you just go and enjoy yourself. Hopefully everyone will have a wonderful dinner and the little boy may just be fine. :)

[super_grover]

this is true....I read the first post wrong. She has clearly gone above and beyond already.

[Lisa63]

The most expensive PB&J or mac & cheese in the world can be obtained at the Pinnacle.

Personal experience.

We nearly had a similar experience this past summer with our 10-year-old. He looked over the menu, but somehow when the waiter came by, my son said politely, "I'd like the macaroni and cheese, please." The waiter was ready to oblige, but I reminded my son that he had told us he was going to order the halibut. He did... and ate every morsel. :)

[sail7seas]

We nearly had a similar experience this past summer with our 10-year-old. He looked over the menu, but somehow when the waiter came by, my son said politely, "I'd like the macaroni and cheese, please." The waiter was ready to oblige, but I reminded my son that he had told us he was going to order the halibut. He did... and ate every morsel. :)
That's great, Lisa.
You must have been so proud of him. That's a nice story. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[jazzsea]

There are many well behaved children on cruises. There must be. I read these posts and hear about these children. Why don't I ever see them on the cruises that I take.

When my children were young we took them with us a lot. They learned manners and they learned how to act in public. If they misbehaved, we left. Just like that. They most often brought home good report cards and were allowed to pick the restaurant where the celebration dinners were to be held. By the time they were eight or older they all wanted to eat at nice places where (get this) they had to dress up. They were not intimidated by restaurants and because of frequent cruises they had tried many foods that were not served at home. (Ah, common mom, let me see you eat the snails. They're good!)

Would I have taken the little heathens to the Pinnacle if such a restaurant existed back then. Not on your life. They were good and mostly well behaved, but they were boys. When their gram said she would babysit we always took her up on it. Their gram, my mom, is gone now and the boys treasure the time that they spent with her.

Polly will have a wonderful dinner with her six year old grandson. What a great picture that will make for both of them later on.

[naxos]

Just some unoriginal input- I do not believe that any dining venue on a ship ought to be OFF LIMITS to persons of any age. As a parent who has trravelled all over the world with my children- I have had to exercise my judgment based on the behavior of my kids and whether or not the situation is appropriate. I have been on cruises where the behavior of adults was totally inappropriate in the dining room and other public spaces- loud drunken behavior that other passengers just winked at. I would rather share my space with age appropriate kids than inappropriate adults. Renting a private yacht is the only way to insure that you will not be "offended or annoyed by others. IMHO